Surprisingly good solar flame lantern
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Most of these flame emulating solar lights have used a strip of LEDs to give the flame effect, but this one uses a very distinct cluster of LEDs to emulate the shape of a flame.
It's unusual that while they have full control of the 5 LEDs individually, they didn't include any sideways flame movement. The pattern loop is also quite short, suggesting that some extra randomisation could be added.
The solar section is fairly typical with a generous 600mAh AAA NiMH cell and surprisingly high output amorphous silicon panel. The current output when held up to a diffused 20W LED bench light was actually quite surprising at 125mA. I tend to associate amorphous (brown glass) panels with low current, but they've obviously been evolving quietly in the background.
This light came from Poundstretcher in the UK. I'd guess it will appear in various general homeware stores worldwide.
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If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.c...
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#ElectronicsCreators
Amazing the effect is so convincing with only 5 LEDs per side.
The brightness frequency and magnitude delta seem much too high. Also, the three rows cluster looks a little too blobby for my liking. An extra always-on bottom row to provide a steady baseline should fix both issues.
2.5 per side imo
I like how they hid the shadow and kept it cheap by rotating the board! And I didn’t get any mid-roll ads either
I got a huge 6 minute long ad at 5:28
@@StanErvin-yo9vl I got double ad on phone and youtube crashed after these._
I got an advert in the middle.
TH-cam has ads?
I got two ads, one forced me to listen to Justin beiber and watch some idiot dancing and the second, thankfully, was skippable 🤢
Pretty convincing from all sides. Simple and clever.
I have a few different types of these solar flame lamps, which do have differing internals, but this is new to me and I’m not sure what I’m more impressed by, the simple genius of placing the board diagonally or the led configuration. They look very hackable too, I must get myself to Poundstretcher! Cheers Clive.
When you say "not bad" that means it's as good as it gets!
I think the pattern would get on my wick, needs more variation to it than it currently has, would be fun to see the thing modified with a randomiser to make the flicker more "natural", or at least, not as obviously repetitive... :)
they will be more expensive
@@boediprasetya2850 Doesn't have to be. There's one pin left that you could leave floating as input for a random function within the chip. And with each LED having its own output, you basically just need one LED from each of the pairs to go out occasionally while the other one stays lit, making the flame move side-to-side, with D and E being on a longer timer than B and C.
That's as simple as it gets - none of that current limiting resistor rubbish :D
I've had some oil lamps that would pulse in a similar pattern, I'm impressed with the fact someone put thought into the design unlike most of the other garbage out there, I'll have to keep an eye out, even though I'm on the other side of the puddle some of our big box diy's have a lot of the same Chinese tat
It's really more of a mud patch than full-blown puddle.
I've never seen a light using that kind of effect. I've seen/had various matrix and strip versions for years but a single 'hot spot' is a new one. I like it.
I think you've definitely earned the right to own a powered mini-screwdriver. More efficient use of your discombobulation time, and, plus, also, too, in addition, as well, you could review some and help us select the best one.
My brain immediately hates the rhythm, it needs to be much more random to be convincing. With so few LEDs there's not that much you can do though and it works better than I would expect given that restriction. Also nice to see a decent sized battery, a lot of these use stupidly small cells.
yeah rhythm is frustrating.
Varying the timing a bit and making it dwell longer at the bottom sometimes might break the pattern recognition.
Dimming actually increases the perceived resolution, so with decent software the 5 LEDs could do really well.
The tip needs to flick a little more
@@ReglazeRXThat's what sh....
Nevermind.
While the repeating pattern becomes obvious really quickly, it's still pretty darn convincing and I'm loving the simple but effective design. Nice breakdown
Yeah I imagine having multiple outside and going more or less in sync (or rather having the same repeating period) would get annoying fast, but I wonder if they were are all slightly 'miscalibrated' having a different period and therefore never really being in the same phase for long, having many of them obfuscates the limited animation of a single one
I like that effect. Thanks Big Clive.
Your thoughts too on the bottom row being on and then sort of flickering as a result of others coming on seems brilant. Interesting stuff going into these. I really like them and the relatively recent improvements since they have become more mainstream.
Oh, I just had a thought about your 3D printed crystals as a possible diffusion for lights such as these.
I would love to see how Clive takes those amazing photos of circuit boards.
th-cam.com/video/L6sAS-y21xA/w-d-xo.html
he uses an advanced electron microscope attached to his nokia handphone!
Thanks for doing the math for the metric conversion to inches for us Colonists. (Seriously, I like watching these.)
I love the effect, it's the most realistic I've seen so far.
2 sets of mid-roll ads are a bit much for an 8 min vid. But not really complaining. I understand the reason for them. 😃
Helluva name, poundstretcher. (in the description) Really tells you where the priorities are in our society.
It would be interesting to have a flame effect controlled by those self-flashing LEDs... make the bottom row of each side of those, so they would drift out of sync eventually, and the rest in each column could just make a rising pattern each time the bottom one switched on... maybe experiment with different layouts, maybe additional logic to more complexly derive the follower pattern from the states of the bottom LEDs.
Something that is designed and built quite well. Refreshing!
Many decades ago, when theatrical lighting was still controlled by individual 0-10V lines per circuit, I built a flicker controller to drive dimmers. This was before things like PIC chips existed, so I had to use hardware. There used to be little 8 pin pseudo-random self-clocked or externally clocked sequence generators. At their normal clock speed, the pattern repeated in something like 2.2 seconds, which is about what I'm seeing here. This I didn't want, so I used two of these PRS generators, the first one clocking the second one. The result was 6 completely independent channels of flickering that never visibly repeated.
The only better one I saw was used by Disney at EPCOT in the early years. There was a small courtyard in the back of the UK pavilion that was lit by a number of pole lamps run from flicker circuits. They randomly flickered quite nicely, but since there were 3 lights in each fixture, the lighting remained very even. But every so often there would be a "virtual gust of wind", and all of the lights, from one side to the other would do an extra flicker pattern, one after the other, like candle flame in a gust of wind.
This would be a good application of a chaotic oscillator to provide chaos to the flame pattern
Like your idea for the LED placement Clive. I'm going to use it in my dogs graves lights. 👍
Its like they didnt cheat but just make the simplest version of the effect. Which means a lot R&D went into this (probably). Love it!
I'm a fan of the flame effect! I got two ads around the 5 min mark. Only the second one could be skipped. Definitely time for an impact like SMA
Pretty good result with only a few LED's in use.
From my tests, the solar light nimh cells always are around 100mAh, even if they claim to be 200 or 600 mAh. They likely come from the same manufacturer
They're probably using batteries that didn't pass QC for some other device.
It’s Phil’s screwdriver, with a tip that looks like his lips. Phil-lips. Poor man had split lips so that when he pursed them for a kiss, they made a shape somewhat like a cross.
Nice little lamp.
I shall have to see if Eurogiant gets any in.
I didn't get any ads in the comments section, but I got 2 in the vid @ 5 min mark.
when you mentioned protective coating, it reminded me that this type of low-side led drive keeps voltage on the LEDs all the time, enhancing(?) corrosion...back in my r&d days, we developed drivers that work on high-side drive, so that there is no voltage (maybe leakage.?) to the LEDs in the off state, reducing corrosion effects, even in connectors, by an order of magnitude...
That's an interesting thought.
Considering what is in there, it came out quite nice!
I got an ad 5 mins in. Didn’t notice any difference in where it appeared in my viewing queue. I think they’re promoting shorts too.
In the interests of research (and because I like your videos) I ran this video again a couple of times and did not get any mid video ads at all??
The TH-cam ad placement algorithm is one of those mysteries in life that defy explanation.
Or maybe I don't get ads because I'm not wearing any socks ???
Hello! I'm here because I found out what you did for Michigan Heating Guy and his son Logan - and whadda ya know, I'm very much into solar, wind, lighting....so, new subscriber because of a good deed done :) I have rooftop solar, but I play with these little lights all the time. Very curious to see what all you do!
Sadly, rooftop solar isn't so viable here. Although we have scorching sunshine right now, most of the year is grey and overcast.
6:52 nice explanation of the role of the inductor in the boost circuit 🙏
Not really. Since when does high frequency and one diode provide DC.
@@billr3053 pulsing dc then?
@@fidelcatsro6948 Yes, very ripply. I guess as long as the microprocessor is OK with it.
PoundStrecher? That's an interesting name for a retail store ;)
Wow that's actually quite nice
Very well designed for a change thanks Clive really interesting thank you 😊
Greetings Sir Clive, sending you much love and respect. I’m doing much better. Who could have imagined casine (milk protein) could almost kill me.
Life is full of surprises. Right now I've discovered that I'm apparently allergic to one of the many ointments or dressings I tried on my cracked knuckle skin.
''watch your eyes,,,,,,,the light is back'' Meanwhile the lighted PC screen surrounding the video is brighter still!
The video is as great as ever, good and clear explanation, but since when do you have these annoying ads in the middle of your video
It's a test. Because TH-cam is funded by advertising revenue I want to see if a recent spell of low views is because I'm not toeing the line.
That cell is about the half capacity then it say's to be. Placing a proper brand AAA would expand the burning time al lot.
I hate the AAA cells, I have some lights and they had the AA 600ma so I replaced them with AA 2000ma so they will stay on all night, I do have to put them in a charger once a week during winter to get back to 100% but at least they hold power for days
Great effect, looked at so many versions, this is a nice one🔥👍
Very cool, I appreciate the design! I wish it was slightly slower and more stable at times. This flame seems to pulsate up and down in brightness too quickly for me. Slow and relaxing with some random flicker at the top would be perfect!
huh, this is rather neat all in all! Circuit is rather clean and minimal, solar cell is decent and thoughtful placement of the PCB. Almost as is some designer took pride in what he/she did! Me likes!
Hi Clive, you need to throw roughly how much this stuff costs and where you got it from. I know why you choose not to, but even a vague "this cost a tenner and I got it from eBay UK" would be enough. I know you included that this was from pound stretcher, but a price guide as well would be nice.
I've taken to modifying a lot of these garden lights with better panels and batteries, so this stuff interests me, I'd love to have known how much this cost!
The pairs of leds did actually light at marginally different times to mimic a flame better so it was 5 genuine channels
For ads I got a Microsoft ad featuring surfer dudes talking about how Microsoft help them be better - seriously? And then also a local ad about a company which does Outdoor lighting installations.
Simple, yet clever. Some of these things are getting well optimized now, aren't they?
In 10 years from now they will be replicating the LED effect with a real oil flame!
Oh how exiting
As a non-Brit everytime I hear “Poundland” for an instance I’m thinking he’s talking about something dirty.
Poundland does actually sell sex toys.
No mid vid ad - nice little lantern
That's good to hear that they didn't plaster adverts in.
Would love to see a firmware dump on the microcontroller, assuming they didn't lock the bootloader from the factory or used a OTP chip.
BTW Clive, when I watched this video, I had adverts just before you showed the schematic.
I use garden solars indoors just for free ambient lighting.
I will probable get these too.
Still got my xmas solar strings hanging up
Half price from B&Ms every summer
Flames with no schmoke.... 🤔
What manner of sorcery is this?
Quite an ingenious little light! I think I need a few if them for the coming winter months!!
(Also to take apart and modify!!)😂
16th century Medieval english witchcraft with a tinge of chinese electronic engineering
@@fidelcatsro6948 Didn't realise Clive dates back THAT far....
@@gertbenade3082
amigo waiteth till that gent speaketh in shakespearan english...that gent uses a timeth traveleth p'rtal to cometh this 'ra
Interesting thing. I wonder about the runtime though. That cell is rather wimpy. I mean, Central European Summers have always sun, no clouds or rain but the cell just has 600mAh capacity printed on, probably less IRL.
Hey Clive, you should do something with CRT, maybe some project with the flyback ? Maybe... a cockcroft multiplier ? :D
Yes , you are correct ... the slide switch VERY quickly corrodes in use , in the ( damp UK ! ) as do the chrome plated steel battery springs ( chrome on steel is just 1st class for starting corrosion , car owners take note ! electro-chemical series etc ! unlike zinc on steel ) ... also , saturate the circuit board with yacht varnish BEFORE putting in garden ... I like to remove the battery and connect twin wire down the tube , then SOLDER battery ( or 1v5 primary D cell ? ) put in the flowerbed adjacent , this makes it MUCH easier to change it should it fail ...... ( tried - n - tested ) ... DAVE™ 🛑
I just paste everything with silicone grease; connections, switch, PCB, the lot! Messy but it works! 🙂Does need some care with low pressure spring connectors or where some contact arcing might take place, but for solar lights the stuff is great!
Oddly well-designed effect for a cheap novelty. It would be easy to get a bit more randomness if that microcontroller has an ADC or comparator on it. Just leave it "flapping in the breeze," but only update it periodically so the flame effect doesn't turn into white noise.
You can just create long pseudorandom patterns at runtime with LFSR. But you should modulate to introduce some visible structure into it as well.
Quick bit of feedback on adverts, for me they are no problem at all. I got 2 short non-skippable ads with a total run time of about 10 seconds.
It would look nice on a logic analyser,to see the pattern of led light
I don't think it's necessarily software driven. It looks like it might be using counters. Still impressive what can be done with a few components.
These days it's literally cheaper to use a microcontroller than a dedicated chip to flash an LED.
Some microcontrollers can be had for less than fifty cents at best, so yeah, I agree with Clive, they're stupid cheap nowadays that it's almost not worth using discrete logic chips, or let alone dedicated LED drivers (the dedicated LED drivers nowadays have a form of processor inside unless labeled otherwise, and I noticed that in a clear flashing RGB LED from a few years ago, it was clearly of 4-bit or very simple 8-bit RISC design).
@@Dr_Mario2007 You can get Padauk microcontrollers from 5 cents.
I wonder if they could've had an even better illumination effect by having made the PCB cut closer to the LEDs (Christmas tree shape sorta), as well as, giving the LEDs a domed phosphor glob... 🤔
I guess the chip regulates the microcontroller voltage by monitoring the peak voltage of the inductor. Hadn't seen that method of feedback before.
I think it's just presenting a fairly continuous load and treating the boost circuit as a simple current limited supply.
Incredible - all the cheapo LED stuff like that that I see in the USA is powered by NiCad cells. I remember taking the NiCads out of some garden lights as they died and replacing them with some elderly NiMh batteries that I had.
Got 2 midroll ads but they were both skippable. Much prefer ads at the beginning but I can understand if that's not working for you.
Might wanna buy some of those for my mom's next birthday.
Do you have a link???
EDIT: oh you said it came from a store in UK. Would be nice if they sold them online.
Content free comment to drive engagement for my favorite channels
I suppose I'd suck at industrial design, because I'd always want to add an extra couple of channels and a longer random flame sequence. Presume you purchased these some time ago as they don't show on their website now?
No ads because I'm on TH-cam Premium.
I ended up having to get power screw drivers because I had carpal tunnel in both hands in couldn't get even one screw in or out of anything, surgery helped but I'm still using the power drivers
I hate that these products clearly have room for a AA cell or even bigger in some cases but they never provide AA instead, it saddens me as the vast majority of devices these days use a AA set, if they use AAA cells it is primarily because of the thinness like that of a remote control
so you already have both cell types that aren't likely to ever go away(lithium is great but not ideal for all applications) and yet they choose the whimpy cell when a AA cell could compensate for the weaker days when it gets less sunlight as they don't need to fully discharge every day
Nicely made! 😉👍
I'd like to get some of those for my dogs graves.. the ones I have were good but they don't work anymore. (Must get some Ni-cd or Ni-MH batteries and fix them back up.) I might rearrange the LEDS on a new board so their positioned like these ones. THEY LOOK BETTER I THINK..👍🇮🇪🙏🏻
Firefighters love this
What I hate about all these solar lights is that they are not designed for rain. Notice how the solar cell is sitting in a little plastic well/cup so that the water can sit there and leak past into the unit over time. Even if you seal it off with some silicone or whatever, it'll eventually leak, destroy the solar panel, and then leak further in and destroy the rest.
Cool ! More LEDs...
Cheerz Clive.
;)
I didn't see an advert unless it was you mentioning Poundstretcher 08:09. Was it the pen at 04:48 ? I checked with ChatGPT and it says you use a Uni-ball Eye rollerball pen.
I use a Pilot V-sign pen which I refill with printer ink.
Phil is gonna be pissed when he finds out you took his screwdriver.
Phil sent the screwdriver and also made the brass one.
I've got these pillars in my front yard and they have kind of a Pogota on top of them. I'd like the Daisy chain 4 of these together and put one of those higher rated lithium batteries (18650), I'd even days to change the solar panels so they charge the lithium battery took capacity. I figure 4 lights per structure, lighting them from each side. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
You can get sets of lights with a common solar panel and battery.
The pattern is fine, but the mistake it makes (as many electronic flame effects make) is that it is too fast. A flame, especially in a lamp, will have periods of quiet with an occasional flicker. This is flickering all the time as if it were in a breeze. Slowing it down would also alleviate the repetitive pattern.
I need like 30 of those
Actually, a well contained flame within a lamp like this shouldn't flicker this much unless in a rather significant and blustery wind. and yes... it is a bit repetitive.
clive i wish youd hack this one putting green leds in there i think that'd be awesome effect
Didn't get any ads in the middle.
Always thought these lamps would contain alot of tiny micro leds but there were only 5 but looked okish.
I have always had adblock turned off for your channel because I didnt see any midrolls.
In this video however I got hit.
Will you use midroll ads from now on going forward or was it a fluke with this video.
Thanks for the video.
It's a test to see if Google are only pushing "profitable" channels. I made a note about that in the description and talked about it in the recent livestream.
So... does the AatLB have voltage sensing and feedback? If it didn't, and the microcontroller turned all the LED's off, then the microcontroller would be overvoltaged...
That is a possibility. I can't find a datasheet for that specific chip to see if it monitors voltage in any way. It may just rely on there always being a load.
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who seen the face to the left of the lamp at the beginning 😮
Not bad. Shame I don't have a store near me that sells these.
Not on the poundstrecher website and none in my local store 😢
It's funny how we're emulating the oldest lighting 'technology' using modern components! I wonder if they'll start emulating LEDs with something else in the future? 🤭
First they'll emulate CFL bulbs, as they've been emulating incandescent bulbs in recent years.
I like it.
How does this chip keeps the output regulated without a feedback path?
It relies on the solar chip being a current limited supply.
My guess is that it samples the voltage on the anode of the Schottky diode during the off period and allows a bit extra for the diode drop.
Thanks for the upload Clive.
I wonder if there's no overvoltage/charge protection for the battery? Are you also saying you need to have it switched on to charge the battery? If left on, does it only light up when the light level is below a threshold, meaning that the night time discharge rate would always be enough to prevent battery overcharge during the day (even during short night the summer)?
they standardly use nimhs as they dont really mind being left on an unregulated trickle charge... panels only a small current. lucky to charge the battery fully... ever.
switch normally just disconnects battery. doesnt charge.
its usually the voltage of the panel that keeps it in the idle state, once the cell isnt producing voltage, ie, dark... it turns on.
some of the fancier ones use a ldr... 1 extra component=$$$
look up the chip datasheet, explains all. sort of.
Awesome Video big clive
Pretty interesting!
(I didn't get mid-video ads)
I just enabled it. It may be building up like beer in a sodastream.
I got some but they were skippable.
I'd like to find some of those here where I live. Looks nice.
This one looks like it is ripe for modding!
Big Clive I have atypical solar light nothing fancy. They will not turn off in direct sunlight. It's they're a common component that could be defective?
Two things can cause the light to be on in daylight. A failed NiMh cell or its contacts meaning the solar panel powers the LED directly, or corrosion around the solar panel itself that means the light can't detect daylight.
Wish you would fix stuff again... or make something from this stuff, again.
Too bad it doesn’t have a microphone that when it hears the wind The animation moves quicker.