They are the thieves, because they have received payment in full for the products and services they provide. They issue bonds based upon the expectation of what they may sell, and nothing more. Whether or not they meet the target is irrelevant as they get the funds up front. This is true for all utilities, as well as for companies like amazon and walmart. They've already been paid in full for their entire stock - whatever they can get you to pay them is essentially 100% profit.
It's a two-sided argument. Because the utilities and other evil corporations are in business to make money. But I agree that it is often a one-sided relationship. They often focus a lot on screwing the consumer before providing their product/service to the consumer.
@@alphaforce6998 And they sell our personal information. A product that does not belong to them. They also lose it and then it is on US, to make sure someone doesn't abuse our information that we never authorized them to sell.
Here in California it took going through a few hoops, and paying a few fees, to "opt out" of a smart meter installation, but I persevered. These things were supposedly just to make it easier for crews to read usage. As it turns out, they began deciphering when refrigerators went off and on, AC units, etc. -- so they could "suggest" changes to your habits. They haven't pressed this too much (yet) that I'm aware, but it was definitely a bait-and-switch.
California is also purposely raising electric rates to induce us to use less of it, and this is driving businesses out of state. We've even surpassed Hawaii and now have the highest electric rates in the USA. Either we've got to stop electing leftists or face that we will become third world.
I'm a firm believer that all critical infrastructure software should be open source. Corporations that deploy systems like this should be required to participate in bug bounty programs, DHS should be paying bounties too.
Wow that's quite a leap. While I agree with the principle, especially in non critical systems I'm very dubious this would have good outcomes in critical infrastructure. While it might find bugs and workarounds you might well be assisting bad players to break critical infrastructure easier than currently. We all know how virus's use old version code vulnerabilities and we all know how hard it is to keep critical networks upgraded to the latest version quickly and safely and hence I think this idea would increase exposure. While I agree with jamess1787, having to be physically connected is great BUT that's going to negate much of our infrastructure operability so its simply not going to happen and maintain what is expected of modern critical infrastructure.
And what if Russia had a 0day that never got reported because it’s not “sexy” for open source world to fix? And then you, @tonyfremont would be held responsible for any outage, attacks, etc. You see why this isn’t as easy as just “open source” it
The issue is people will then be able to find vulnerabilities and exploit them or they will be able to communicate with the media using the infrared communication and rewind it essentially so it can’t really happen that way
@@LuisGutierrez-dr6re Russia? Sexy? Wtf.. its not as simple as open source it but common why is russia to be involved? Why not just a smart guy trying to reduce his bill? And imo any vulnerability found would be "sexy" to report..
I've worked for 8 years as an engineer on smart meter networking for a competitors to L+G's Gridstream. Multiple technologies in fact. Fascinating to see someone put so much effort on reverse-engineering it all.
My utility refuses to let us access real-time electricity usage even though we all have smart meters -- I'm glad to see someone putting in the work to do what our utility should be doing.
@@x--.Our utility provides an app we can use to see our usage but the data is delayed by 1-2 days and isn’t very detailed. To get it more detailed and more real time, we need to opt into a program with a monthly fee.
We paid for the infrastructure and pay to maintain it so we can be charged to use it?????? Everyone needs to be off grid completely. These so called for profit utilities should go out of business
@@guerillanewsfare267 I don't know... I have two Honda 3 cylinder diesel generators for backup power because our power system goes down frequently. Keeping a generator fed and listening to it all day gets old in a hurry.
I totally agree with the statement 'They will run the system into the ground then beg the government for a bailout'. I look at the power distribution in my neighborhood alone and I see that system could not handle 5 houses running level 2 EV chargers while running their 4 ton AC units.
That’s the whole point, whoever is pulling the strings wants the system to crash so they can pick up the pieces and have complete control… and we’ll beg them to control us too. We’re just dumb sheep
As soon as one of those meters was installed, the bills started to climb until they were unpayable, and now the house is off grid with solar to an inverter. Those meters are a crime mystery. Our heating comes from two diesel heaters now and two wood fire places. The house is now free from exploitation by companies who make massive profits and harvest the financial blood and marrow of the people.
Wait until they start seriously regulating solar energy, and which/how many panels you're allowed to have, .. how much power you can use and when etc.. (like water bans but with electricity usage) Eventually if/when they finally cut access to fossil fuel produced energy, the prices related to solar energy will skyrocket. .. and they will have far more control than ever over the general population
@@warthogA10 who's they? Btw I've had free electricity from the grid all weekend because of the windy weather. Honestly, with solar in the summer and very cheap grid power in the windy winter, I don't pay much more than the standing charge. It's the battery that's the thing
@@seanoconnor8843 yep.. wait until they have everything to a point where they start piling on regulations.. which and how many panels etc you can have, how much electricity you can use and when (similar to water bans today) .. and how the prices will skyrocket. But folks are too naive to see any of this, and fall for all the BS, because they're easy to manipulate. Who are 'they'? Glo balist elites and their political allies, that's who. You'll find out, but by then it will be far too late.. . and you won't admit to any of the blame. Oh yeah, and only 'they' will continue to have access to and use Fossil fuels.. because they're sophisticated and intelligent and they know how to use it responsibly.. And they're important so they have no choice.. 😐
We should be told exactly what these opaque systems are capturing, who the data is being sold to, and why. I also demand a share of the revenue they're generating by selling my data to third parties! I only agreed to purchase the electricity. I didn't sign a EULA for the software.
@@fmorgan98 do you really think the government is using your phone camera to spy on you when you rub one out? I don't think so! Edit: after 2 seconds of googling, the government does, in fact, use your phone camera to spy on you rubbing one out.
There may be no reason for Amazon to know right now, but there may be a future for it. Maybe Amazon develops a device that plugs into an electrical outlet and orchestrates and regulates the 'smart' electric appliances to perform a number of different things, like talking to the controller of the refrigerator to turn off/on while the AC or dryer is operating. This could be a pretty deep rabbit hole uses actually. 😕
You need to remember that those meters do not just measure the energy used. They measure the phase to let them know if you have an inductive or capacitive load. By monitoring, they can actually figure out your household habits, when you eat, sleep, shower, etc. by the type of load on the meter and how long it is on. They also report WHEN these things happen. It's not just a "meter reading' anymore. They want to charge you for the time of day you use your electric and they also want to charge you for phase corrections. This is not legal, YET. P.S. Go look up the people who were charged for electric service even though it was out for several days. There 'meter' reported 'average use' during this time. So even if you cut your electric off for several days, you are still paying for it.
In theory, efficient use of the grid helps everyone by keeping infrastructure costs down. In practice however it's just about maximizing profit and controlling what people do
Yet I bet you own a smatphone who can literally LISTEN to every word you say in private, but you are concerned by the type of information they can extract from a smartmeter ? How do you think "hey siri" works ? "She" has to listen and decipher every word you say and they can do it with or without your concent as long as you own a smartphone, I'm sure it's all in the policy they change every month or so AFTER you bought the product. A one-sided "concent", agree, or you can't use our "services".
@@BrainHurricanes Yep, own a 'smartphone'. I keep it in a deprivation chamber. Built myself. My computer has no mic or camera. I do not own a siri. I do have a private server in another location that accepts my security camera feeds only.(stay off my property) The next thing is did you read the whole thing? Does your smartphone bill you for WHEN you use it? Does it charge you for HOW you use it? Is it fair a disabled person has to pay twice as much for their electric even though they actually use less than their neighbors but because his equipment is inductive load? Do you want a rider added to your electric bill because most thing in your home are capacitive loads like most electronics are now? How did they know this? At least my phone I can look up what they can and cannot do.
@@johncundiss9098 All that shit you do is useless. Golden rule "If it transmits/receives, it can be accessed by anyone. I spent 15 years building out CBS's and tower work for Verizon.
I think he alluded to the firmware being tied to a hardware key/identifier. Depending on how this was implemented, a "leaked" copy could point to the source if a unique hardware key is somehow embedded in the firmware. Without the master key it could be difficult to find and alter identifying information, as well as the risk of unwittingly breaking something
My problem is that the smart meter was sold to the consumer with the promise of automatic off peak tariffs for everyone - 7 years later still waiting - and tariffs increased 50% . 🇦🇺
O'rly? I thought it was for network management and lowering distribution costs. Also off peak systems worked from late 60s in my tiny country which was not that technological advanced as US. We used modulated signals with specific codes back then for switching off/on those appliances. Also smart meters are important for reporting overflows (legal - like solar energy or illegal) or issues with reactive power. It is one of the necessary equipment to use when you produce energy or buy it (even for flat rate) on short term markets with dynamic price.
I just got a new water heater with a dedicated port for utility control (emergency load shedding, off peak usage, ect.). Our utility doesn't make any use of it yet, but it does make sense. FWIW: They do give you like a $1 discount per month if you let them install their own equipment which lets them cut power to your water heater for emergency load shedding. Which is fair, but really should be worth more and would be much much better if it were an open source standard so you can actually know what it is doing.
The smart meter, has the ability to cut off your power remotely. You paid for that. They are also aware, if the meter gets pulled. Which might have a reason, as dumb as "bees in the box". But they now, have the ability to know exactly when, your meter was pulled, and for how long, and come review any changes to their side.
This is excellent topical content with superb production value. I've went from Recessim fan to advocate, these are the things a wider audience needs to see, whether technically inclined or not. Thanks for what you do.
Your excessive eye for detail is incredible. I do not reserve-engineer but will keep on following this exciting adventure you've initiated. Keep it up, I'm glad you're back. And thank you!
lose the music. thanks for this comment. I'm seriously interested in side channel attacks and differential power attacks, but the music has really ruined the video.
While I personally enjoy the music and think it sounds nice, I also understand that there are people with audio processing disorders that cannot separate music from voice as easily as the average person. 😢
I got a letter announcing that I must now pay $10/mo. extra for not allowing a smart meter. The leccy company even tried to sneak one in but I successfully ran Dominion's felon off with my vicious dog.
You are not crazy. Very few people care, but I consider the so called SMART METER to be an enormous change in US culture, economics, privacy, national security, weights and measures, and the rationality of any trust that people should have concerning the metering of electricity.
What if you live in a blue state and they decide to start limiting your carbon usage? This is the foundation to it. My house is 115 years old all electric, no gas, and the electric company is always telling us in our bills that we use too much electric compared to our neighbors.. I feel they have been warning me...
@@Denniss7420 I was not given a chance to opt out. They sold the idea to former president Obama based on the premise that a smart meter would use (or waste) less power than an old school meter. Old school meters had the power consumption written on the device. I suspect that would be the maximum power consumption that it would ever use. That would rarely happen, if ever. And it could be used for spying.
@@--harry_ That could happen with any kind of metering, even the Cuban style meters. (they have no meters) It would be unfair in my opinion. If your house wiring is really old, you need a master electrician to take a look at it.
@@Denniss7420 we tried to get our smart meter swapped out to an old traditional meter and they wanted quite a bit of money to do so and then they were going to charge us extra every month to have the meter read by a person
Is this video about the firmware to smart meters not being FOSS, or is there more to it? I skipped around but it wasn't obvious what the problem was that was the subject of the video. If it is just taking 20min to say they're proprietary...
@@soundspark And how exactly is that checked and by who, no one ever came to my house with a power meter and and compared it to what my meter was reporting. Sounds like they could just remotely tweek the meters a little and who would ever know? I would not trust the power company as far as I could throw it.
RTLAMR is awesome. Kinda disappointed to see newer "smart" meters actually having less live telemetry 😂 I suppose there's always the option for the optical sensors -- little microcontroller counts the blinking light on the meter... not perfect but much more universal -- tons of meters have them regardless of "smartness"
As a software engineer, I came here after the electricity provider conducted an on-site interference measurement. It appears that three devices in my household are emitting disturbances that interfere with the frequency used by the electricity provider for their communication via PLC. Now they want me to install a filter-what a joke! If they want to use this lousy PLC, why isn't there a built-in filter or blocker? What a joke these companies are!
What devices were causing the interference, and did it make a difference where they were physically plugged in? Closer to the fuse panel/meter or further away?
@@RECESSIM A frequency converter for a pool pump, one ceiling LED lamp (panel), and a power supply. All with CE-Label. We haven't had much time to test yet, but there is some distance between the frequency converter since the main issue (the frequency converter), as it's in an outbuilding. All the devices were plugged in, and we had to unplug and shut down the entire house to find the exact devices causing the interference. I now have 4 weeks to either fix this issue or remove the devices, as it could affect the neighbors and everything else too. It seems that working filters/blockers are hard to find and can get expensive. The only one I tested today that actually fixed one device cost 200 euros (I tested four filters for this device). Something for all three phases costs around 800 euros. I wish I could have my old e-meter back, but we're being forced to use smart meters.
@@TheHausi91wow, that sucks! What’s even worse is they’re making YOU pay for the filters needed for THEIR system to work. They should have tested it with realistic devices plugged in. If they want a quiet power line, they can filter it at the entrance to your panel, at THEIR expense.
PG&E had a loose wire feeding my house..I was getting fluctuating 120v , no 240v. The meter would flash or go blank. They replaced the meter but is was the wire connection. They decided I owed them a ridiculous amount of money for their fluctuating 120v(I couldn't run my well) and turned off my power! PG&E is pure evil, I'm filing with CPUC, and making videos..Thank you for using your incredible brain for Good!
@@wannabecarguy I didn't know about the chromium..I'm in Shasta, they control the land, water, electricity, local and state government.. I'll be doing more research and exposés on them.. including the ridiculously overpaid CEO..
I work for a smart meter company (not L&G) and I can say for sure that the only way you will extract firmware from our meters is by decapping the chip and performing a circuit edit using a FIB/SEM system! As for listening to RF messages, all data is encrypted. Each meter has unique public/private keys installed before shipping to the utility.
I don't doubt the hardware security is high on the meters your company makes. Beyond the ability of most to obtain the firmware. However, hardware hackers come up with pretty innovative ways. I am sure you are familiar with side channels, glitching attacks etc as well as potential software bugs that may allow memory to be leaked, or access gained. Perhaps whoever makes the actual board and board SDK of your meter has strong defences against known attacks and made that a priority. Maybe the devices also wipe their own firmware if a hardware attack is detected. I can think of other defences also. But being certain without the decapping route (which some people do) might be overdoing it. Just be glad those smart meters aren't a hacker mass appeal device like phones/consoles :) As for transmitted data encryption, and any potential vulnerabilities related to unauthorized parties attacking individual meters or meter networks, always assume it is a possibility that harm could be caused despite best efforts of R&D/security teams.
@@tisme1105assuming the keys aren’t reused (we know how often they are) dumping the keys and firmware will at best let you look for any vulnerabilities in how the code handles the encryption… if it’s bad enough the traffic may as well not be encrypted
I dedicated majority of my life to digital security, and have never been able to state my frustrations with for profit critical infrastructure, and not owning hardware I purchased as eloquently as you did. Wonderful video, and I wish I had the time to aid in this work. What is funny about this video, is that it randomly popped up on my TH-cam feed the day after I was staring at my own power meter, which I recited the name and model number to myself.
The last statement you make starting with " my you tube feed....is very interesting....my thought/ question: Brain wave read, thought capture? There appears to be something very subtle here. Not an engineer, I'm a Forensic Analyst.
FYI, the easiest way to get the right meters is to publish a list of utilities using the meter and network - generally speaking the utilities are "locked in" - they can't switch networks without replacing everything or running multiple sets of equipment. The utility name is printed on the meter so a photo of the meter itself should reveal the utility using it. And yes, all meters are keyed to a utility - that's why it's printed on the label.
Where I am in Australia, the retailer gets to pick the meter vendor, it’s separate from the utility, but still has to meet a standard and all data goes to the utility for actual billing
Just about every utility is investing in smart meters that can transmit their usage and outages in real time. The meters do not say the utility name because it's a separate company that manufactures them, and sells them to a utility.
@@JohnD-JohnD yeah, I know that already. There's also more advanced stuff a retailer can do with the smart meters, like turning controlled loads on and off at will, which was previously only controlled by the utility itself.
13:10 - Re: the Texas freeze, there were power companies who refused to push that expense on the costumers. I don't recall what the main power producing conglomerate is called, but the smaller businesses were told to push the cost of electricity on the costumers. There were, as said, some who refused. Who went as far as to declare bankruptcy rather than destroy people's lives. These were worker owned cooperatives. When they declared bankruptcy their businesses (holdnings, stuff owned by the business) was bought up, cheap, by other worker owned cooperatives. Then sold back to newly created worker owned cooperative that just happened to do the same thing as the previous bankrupt one, and just happen to have the same people working with the same jobs, taking in the same customers. Thus, the costs were pushed back unto those who tried to profit off of others desperation. Worker owned cooperatives have a far different motivation than share holder owned businesses do. Worker owned cooperatives want to keep their customers, it's how they're ensured an income and work. Shareholders just care about profit.
It is called “demand charges” which pay the infrastructure expenses for transporting the power to the consumer, poles substations etc. in Most places it was a common surprise and huge expense to people having a commercial electric service for the first time. Apparently demand charges were not being charged on the systems you described which explains the fragile Texas transmission distribution systems.
@@MUUKOW3What do you mean Green Energy Scam? Texas is one of the highest producers of Wind and Solar? Once all the oil is out of the ground, it will be the only energy left ( besides nuclear)
I'm only half way through your video and I'm hooked! Instant sub! I am a candidate for Massachusetts 1st Congressional District and my mission in life is to free us from the corporate rule and influence that has taken over our government for the sole purpose of making profits. If we work together, there are so many problems we can address, and address quickly, for the benefit of ALL. I feel a change coming over the next few administrations. It could be good, or it could be bad. It's time for the next generation of political leaders. Leaders that put PEOPLE OVER POLITICS. Stop electing the rich and well connected to govern us all. I know I started rambling and this turned into a campaign message, but I really hope you see it as a chance to enact meaningful change. We just need to unite and work together for the common good, the things we could achieve are limitless...
One of the best videos I have seen. And like you said we are all paying for it... over and over again! These meters are consuming electricity for which we are all paying for. Even though they are Company own and used for their own purpose, not ours. Now multiply that for millions of meters a year and how many yachts are we as customers paying for? "Hacking is not a crime... is a consumer necessity." [ %4 are actually fees-just like a tax!] I think it needed to be said. Thanks for sharing.
@@teddypreston5525 Whilst its not the specific model here BigClive did a tear down of one and found that it was powered pre metering. however if its pre meter or not its sure as hell not the company that pays for it in the long run, it will be hidden in the service charge or in the rates for every consumer.
I've some familarity with the subject. Worked for a uility and learned/coded how to talk to meters (Ansi C12.19). One key thing to remember is that the utility wants the meter read from month to month. As most residential customers are still billed on the kwhr usage for the billing period...not the hourly usage. So they need only get the meter read at the end of the billing period...from the diff of the meter reads they can get the total kwhr the customer has used. In the old days, if an outage occurs we only knew the outage was when the customer called it in. Parts of the distribution network (the wires on the poles) might call in an area outage...but never an individual customers. Also, not only is the outage important...so is the restoration of power message. As sometimes an area outage will mask individual outages. So unless your in some kind of time of day billing (which still is very coarse, time periods of 8 to 12 hours, or even days of week) the meter a'nt communicating very much up stream. 24hrs of usage data is a very small amount of data...and its only being collected once/day. What you are probably seeing on the mesh network, is constant appraisal by the meters and collector as to what paths are available for the quickest way upstream. Meter needs to know what nearby meter has the shortest link chain to a connector, the collector needs to know what reporting meter links to its destination meter it want to talk to. If a meter is unable to talk to any nearby meter, its going to go into a "any one out there" message repeating. Also, firmware updates, new meter initialzation, etc is going on as they deploy the meters. Even for periodic usage purposes (such as area load studies), it only wants hourly from residential. Industrial maybe 15 min intervals. Meters that can shut the power off are more expensive...last I heard about $100 more..and thats only for residential...big customers you can't have a 1000amp circuit breaker in a meter. So utilities don't really want to deploy remote shutoff everwhere, just in locals where shutoffs are common, such as college towns, etc. Meters before being smart cost around $20, maybe smart meters are $50 to $100. If you have million customers that big bucks to buy....and deploying itself is expensive. Also, diff meter manufacturers are using different protocals....Itron derives from a drive by system. Net metering is a twist too, but can be easily handled. Finally, meters comm should be talking encrypted...if not you should be worried.
when we got solar power, the 2 meters that were installed in the house in 2020, were not correctly showing the solar power to the grid, and was not correctly recording what we imported. So they got replace in Feb 24, with another pair of identical meters, which seem to be more consistent, but are still not showing exactly the same values. It makes me very suspicious about the actual workings of the smart meter. Im just fortunate that I sell lots in the summer that offsets the winter errors and so don't have a bill. What you are doing fascinates me. I barely understand 5% of what you are talking about, but look forward to your next video.
as soon as a smart meter became compulsory, i cut grid tie altogether, built a 8kw off grid system for less than the meter and 6 months power bill, never looked back, weather, global conflicts, economic collapse are just inconsequential events to me, let alone the savings of 5k$ a year from power bills, power outages are other peoples problem, worst case scenario is if it's overcast for long periods, i might have to put a couple dollars fuel in the generator to charge the batteries sporadically, anyone with a high school education can do it, provided you don't live in a sardine can that society calls apartment buildings, seems to me a great deal of people are content with modern slavery that society calls wages, and will drive themselves into an early grave to pad the pockets of big business.
So many people without a second thought had them installed. I live in a retirement development. I received a mailing saying they were going to do it. Called for info and asked if it was possible for them to shut my electric off from the meter. They said yes but that would never happen😂😂😂. I’m paying an extra 15 bucks a month to keep my old meter but I see it as money well spent👍.
I think the issue is that the power companies didn't disclose you could opt out, at least not very clearly. So everyone felt forced. Even my in laws say to this day they're forced to have it, even after I showed them the section that says they can opt out still lol
Not given a choice were I live. Nor when I lived in Ontario, Canada. At least it is not used the same way on the East Coast, as the nightmare created in Ontario. Forcing families to wait until after 7 to feed their children, I creasing obesity and making sure children are tired in school from being up too late.
My smart meter was installed while I was not at home. Nothing announcing it had been installed. It just appeared and my other meter disappeared. BS per normal.
Can confirm. I used to work in the meter bill department and fixed bill errors. Current, Voltage, Power, Reactive Power, Time, and trends and more are all recorded and stored. With “green” energy on the rise, we will be forced to use energy that is volatile and not dependable. Furthermore, solar systems attached to the grid (so you can “sell” your solar power) have to be monitored and controlled. The power company can turn your power off whenever they deem necessary and also inevitably implement Time of Day rates. I know there is a ton of security behind accessing meters… 🤐
They don't buy your solar power that you don't use they give you a credit which in most states don't even do anymore. Now they charge you to store your extra power.
When ever the clip-on "Smart" is added to a product. I knew yrs ago it meant smart for the seller not for the consumer. RECESSIM, Have you ever tried to change utility providers ? Don't know how it is in your state but in mine a while back they automatically decertified certain code approvals so you'd have to re-certify w/the town etc.. Utility Cos are behemoths in the political spectrum. When I heard Electric Cos planned to make people pay to return power to the grid via solar panels they own on their roofs ! That's the final straw, they're corrupt greedy & about as anti-conservation as one can get. Bravo to your efforts sir, hope you find the truth
13:30 nailed it. This is true of almost all utility systems I’ve been involved with. As a technician on for profit owned Water utility systems in Arizona. 14:00 is what they all wait for while extracting as much profit as possible without reinvestment. 14:00 is bonus time handout for all their cronies and their friends
If the meter isn't transmitting how much power that the customer is using as a value encoded within its signals, then it's sending signals at specific times to encode values, or, it's sending signals at specific power usage increments. For example, if it only sends a signal every 0.1kwh, then all they have to do is count the number of signals received and multiply by 0.1 to get the total number of kwh used by that customer. This can also work if the customer has solar and is putting power into the grid if they just include a simple flag bit in the signal itself to indicate whether the increment refers to using or providing power to the grid. If there's no power usage data *in* the signal, then the power usage data *is* the signal itself. Otherwise, it's the timings of the signals that's encoding usage. Surely they knew people would try to hack the smartmeters, and security through obscurity works if you can obscure what you're doing enough that nobody can figure it out. Heck, usage might actually be encoded in the data that's being transmitted, obfuscated by blending it with the visible data, and you just have to look harder!
My solar has a Smart meter for “Consumption”, and a 2nd Smart meter for “Production” (which all PV power runs through), so they are able to tell house consumption, and production via multiple methods.. I am in a program that pays based on production, regardless of where the power is used (some powers the house, while excess flows back to the grid/neighbors)
The meters store the usage until queried. There is no need to query them all the time as they can hold months' worth of data. They only need to be read once a month for billing purposes, but typically are read once a week. So the problem here is that the connection for a meter has to be tracked while the frequency-hopping spread spectrum (FHSS) is going on, for the entire month, to grab those meter reads.
Could very well be encrypted for privacy reasons. Also the regulatory agency want to limit time resolution for privacy reasons, like no way to get values between the metering intervals. The question is likely more about finding the key!
@@mwolrich That's interesting. Our solar setup has a box that the panels route into and then that connects to the breaker box and then out through the meter - so during a sunny day when we're generating more than we're using we just see a negative reading on the power meter. If I want to see what the panels are doing I can log into a web interface that shows me panel outputs and totals in 15-minute intervals throughout the day.
@@CharlesVanNoland yes, I see the Consumption meter moving forward and backwards as will (its digital), a good month the ending reading is lower than the starting reading (generated more power than consumed), I have an Enphase microinverter system, it has Production CT’s as well as Consimption CT’s, the web portal shows the status as well.. but the Smart meters are for National Grid, the utility, for billing as well as solar credits from production.. those are all “revenue” grade meters.
I don't understand how Americans can let companies control the utility companies. I'm sure it saved money at first, the infrastructure exists and can be depreciated without the big capital costs, those companies quickly form oligopolies, the infrastructure now in disrepair fails and there is limited accountability and the Corp has a blank cheque for new infrastructure. Meter companies are part of this archaic system and trying desperately to find a way to create a system that requires a subscription model. Only they can test a device to confirm its accurate, only they can work on a device to repair it (repair manuals are inaccessible), only their distributors can provide you with replacement parts and batteries. I would go as far as to say they are worse than pharma companies. Anyway, I'm done my rant, enjoyed your video and now will get back to fighting the "Big Meters" industry and try to stop them from bleeding society dry.
Reminds me of the efforts years back to virtualize an OSX/MacOS image to VM. That final icing on the cake was a trival string of text found in legal paper work from decades old lawsuits that unlocked the potential to do so.
So, after all this, did you ever locate the actual power value transmitted to the power company? I opted out for a smartmeter...nothing I want to have. Unfortunately, I get charged extra each month for not having one. Even without a smartmeter, each month I receive a "home energy report" that specifies "where" my home uses energy. Line items include lighting, kitchen, electronics, heating, other, laundry, and cooling. They say 35% of my energy usage is for lighting...really? I can assure you I sit at night with ONE LED bulb illuminated, no security lights, so where do they come up with 35%? Percentages listed for the other catagories are BS also. I have zero confidence that any data I receive from the power company is accurate!
Even with smart meters they can not tell what is using power in such a granular way. They are making assumptions. I track my use with clamp meters. I can tell when my electric furnace kicks on, its very obvious when a 50amp load is running. Its very hard to see a 10w load turn on, its well with in the margin of error
Technically they aren't supposed to charge for opt out because the government already reimbursed them for potential opt outs. So. They're double dipping. Smart meters are Invasive surveillance tech... They are also extremely harmful for the health of anything living... Between smart meters and WiFi everyone is unaware of the severe damage being done to their bodies... You are supposed to be able to have an old meter without extra cost if you can provide a doctors note that informs the power company that you have a health issue that the meter makes worse (like, you had cancer or you're EM sensitive) once you have a meter it's difficult to get removed. If they come to remove it they're known for blowing out your power and leaving, and you end up having to find an electrician to come fix your power at your expense. They're also known for telling customers they removed the smart meter but they actually installed a semi smart meter, usually the customer pays their double dipping fees and when they find out they were lied to they're given the run around and told they'll be charged again whenever they can locate an old meter,
You are only paying that extra amount because you accepted the contract they offered you. If you think it's fair to charge you extra to use the same "old" safe equipment then carry on. If however you find the situation unacceptable, you can change this by replying with an conditional acceptance.
Agree , we pay an extra 13$ a month for not having smart meter ! We also get that letter saying we use more energy then our neighbors . We are dumbfounded as we have had our house gutted all new solid cell spray foam insulation , the lighting has all been converted to led , the heating system is a wood pellet stove , the hot water is on demand ! We don't watch tv , nor do we seldom use our smart phones or computer so that letter is nothing more then fear mongering .
I got DEEP into smart meter development earlier in my career and was so frustrated by manufactures totally locking out the consumer to access THEIR OWN consumption information. The SEP2.0 OPEN communication standard was under development but FERC didn’t have the balls to mandate an open standard like the FCC did with WiFi. It is SO COOL to see this jail brake effort. It will lead to security problems and solutions but more importantly with enable the INTERNET OF THINGS to become a reality! I’ll be closely following the evolution of this campaign.
The electric company came to my house a few years ago and REPLACED the "gear-wheel?" inside of my meter. THEY said it was a necessary UPGRADE!!! I had NO CHANGES in my electric usage!!! But, my electric bill raised 50%!!! I'm wondering if the gear tooth ratio on the gear mechanism is in THEIR favor???
You need to also consider the possibility that you were just gettting electricity for less than you were meant to and they then fixed their mistake. Though if this had been the case they really should have told you, in the few instances I've known where someone has had a utility bill increased due to undercharging the utility has notified the customer of the mistake and the change (and in one case even demanded someone pay 6 years of electricity arrears despite the mistake being on the part of the company, sheesh).
@@MrWiseinheart I did. OUR electric company is INDEPENDENT PRIVATE OWNED!!! The PUCO (Public Utilities Commission of Ohio) CAN'T do ANYTHING about Lodi electric company practices!!!
Looking forward to this series! I’m interested to learn more about your process, tools, GR blocks, etc. for reverse engineering the RF side of things. Our city recently switched from Elster EnergyAxis water and electric meters to Itron Gen5. I had written ea_receiver and rfm69-elster for those Elster meters based off the work of argilo and others, but the Itron Gen5 stuff doesn’t have much research available on it yet. Right now my process is pretty slow and manual - capture some samples on my RSP1A clone sans-antenna in hopes that I’m capturing the meter and not a neighbors weather station, pull them into inspectrum, and hand decode in there. Once I’m certain I’ve got the correct device, I can at least program the syncword into something like an sx1276 so that I can collect a few days of broadcasts and look for patterns. But my guess is that they’re all encrypted and unless they’ve done something stupid, chances are slim that I’ll get anything useful.
we flat out refused to have one fitted. told them they can gather their data from someone else, and we dont need a 'smart' meter to know how much electric we use.
Fun times working on these in my early career as a software engineer. Everything was completely foreign to me at a hardware level, but it was rewarding to learn all the neat hardware and features. Especially travelling the country and going to meter farms for mass deployment testing. Depending on the meter not only does it use RF mesh for communication, but also data over mains power and others, where rf and mains communication is sketchy, have a 3g/4g backhaul for communication.
In Australia, smart meters are "pinged" over the power-lines themselves. This can be every 30 minutes (example: early morning) or every 3,5 or 10 minutes (example: peak hours). Power draw from those meters tell the Network Operator how much load is being used, and gives them time to co-ordinate with the generators. This is largely anonymous data. They also ping meters at the end of the billing period, this is personal data. Every meter has its own individual digital fingerprint. Data sent to the Energy Retailers, is spread out over the 50 working days/quarter, so they don't get everything on one day. Meter ID's are only assigned to a Retailer, if they have a contract for that consumer's address.
Thanks for the video. I’m not a tech geek but I’ve had for years a smart , smart electrical meter for my house. It’s a time of day use meter. Depending on the time of day my electricity rates change. I have rates . Peak , mid Peak , off Peak hours. I get a print out with my utility bill showing my electricity usage during these time periods.
In most areas, the utility company requires all new meter installations to be these wifi smart things. But in some areas, you can legally get an electrician to replace broken meters with any meter which meets certifications. The trick is to find a way for your wifi meter to somehow break ...
you people ever heard of rigging a generator to a microwave emitter pointed to that thing ? #letitcook be real careful about grounding the microwave, else it will your last inhale & exhale on the 3rd rock from the sun.
This video was QUALITY at its finest. I was wondering about these as they are starting to be implemented in my area. Always feel uncomfortable with the level of tracking we all endure today. And this is proof that EVERYTHING can be tracked and sold for profit.
Problem with smart meter is we cant see or understand their process. The other problem is they go by what you used the prior year of that particular month, use that to charge you a similar amount for present billing. Basically we are billed in a way they get whatever money they want.
Thanks Hash that was a great video explaining the smart meter network. I miss you doing the "news" in reverse engineering. Though all your videos are gems.
I was lucky enough to find one of the first meters they ever made from a very old house in Vaucluse. It’s still in mint condition. Also kept all the old ceramic switchboard stuff as well as one of the first safety switches. Very cool stuff! Love your channel! Liked and shared! Keep up the good work
Amazing how digestible you present such difficult topics! Did a project and my thesis in smart cities and remote metering systems and the security and privacy aspect of them is scary... Great content and even greater the cause! Thank you for this spark you are starting :)
Not being paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you. The privatisation model for supplying utilities, such as energy, water, effluent treatment, can work, provided that the regulator/ watch dog is effective, which has not been the case for Thames Water in the UK, thus allowing the Australian corporate investors to award themselves substantial bonuses whilst discharging insufficiently treated sewerage at lowest cost, into rivers etc., instead of improving /maintaing the aging infrastructure that they are accountable for. Ofwat, the regulator, failed the country by overlooking this practice until activists raised the alarm, ie another example of the default ineffectiveness of government institutions.
Not only is this closed but it really looks like they went through some decent effort to even hide it as much as possible by using the spectrum hopping. Some effort went into making it as hard as possible to decode the signals. That makes me question the security, as maybe they are relying on security through obscurity instead of encryption and preshared keys for example. Imagine if someone figures out how to turn off power to random meters lol. Someone could actually take down the entire grid if they are strategic about this. Turn off power to a couple major customers and it would cause things to trip. I do believe stuff like this absolutely should be open source. In fact I should be able to buy a device that reads my smart meter so I can measure my own usage too. The meter is on my house, I should be allowed to get more insights into what's going on.
The utilities are supposed to be giving customers access to their own data through Zigbee or a web page or whatever but mine hasn't done anything so far, and I've had a smart meter for years.
How would a couple hundred meters in your neighborhood be able to communicate on the same frequency channel without a bunch of garbled messages and collisions, if they wouldn't use spectrum hopping? Isn't that simply how most wireless networks work? I'm not sure what the situation in the US is like, but regarding security in Europe I'm 100% sure, they are using pre-shared keys and several layers of security for the actual transport channels. At least where I live, a utility company ordering meters from Landis+Gyr would receive the meters accompanied by a bunch of key files. Oftentimes 2 or 3 per meter to control different levels of access, since reading metering data is less dangerous than remotely switching relays on or off. I wouldn't be surprised, if the message he captured and couldn't figure out is just the encrypted payload containing the actual metering data.
@@lupf5689 Same way wifi works. They each take their turn essentially. I assume there is collision detection as well. Kinda like old style ethernet with hubs. with the way they jump frequencies it's probably more advanced though. There might also be some multiplexing at play where they each get a very tiny time slot.
What is your target demographic? The places you choose to use odd metaphors for the laymen and when you just go ahead with an assumption of knowledge is all over the place. Wouldn't someone familiar with SDR's typically know what firmware is? And if they aren't familiar with firmware, they probably don't know what SDR means.
Not every TH-camr has a target demographic, they simply make videos and if people like the videos they subscribe. In fact I'd go so far as to say that is how all but the top 10% of TH-camrs do it, they don't really have time in their day to fart about with pie charts and stats.
I remembered a swat team raiding a house the power company had been able to see the use of grow lights through the data and the cops came in they also use infrared on houses with helicopter/ drones . To see the lights
I work for a large electric utility and help maintain the smart meter grid from a hardware standpoint. These are absolutely better than the old meters that required a meter reader to collect the data and the company was essentially blind when it came to power outages. Some other food for thought as you look into the data. Some electric smart meter mesh networks share their network capacity with other utilities, like gas companies. If you are scanning that data, you may also see data from gas and water meters. If you are doing this to verify how much power you have used, there are other ways to get that data to confirm your usage in real time.
Do you have something against meter readers? Your work has contributed to their layoffs. Does that make you feel good? Do you actually claim the utility companies never knew about power outages the way it used to be done?
@@basketballjones6782 lol. That's an odd reply. The newer meters are way better at providing real time stats than someone who walked across your lawn once a month. Including power outages. I didn't invent the things, I help keep that mesh network running. If you are angry about their existence, your anger is directed in the wrong direction.
@@franklofarojr.2969 Yes, and the invention of bread factories put bakers out of business. The invention of the pulse phone put telephone operators out of work. The invention of the smart phone put camera manufactures out of business.
I have been missing the sharped dressed man is a suit. But at least I no longer worry about my wife getting all hot and bothered.. This video was extremely well produced, and I cannot wait until the next one in this series drops. I have alway wanted to know how my utility smart meter works, as I I am running my house with gorilla solar, only using them as a generator. I stick it to them every way I can. They have proven to be noting more than a abuser of Power, with no concern for the customer only for the profit. It's my turn to get some flesh from them. Technology is moving forward and soon storage will be cheap enough that many will no longer need them. Power to the People!
I saw an article talking about how to use an RTL-SDR to get readings from smart meters into Home Assistant, only to find that the meter we have has some proprietary protocol that hasn't been decoded. I can understand keeping control messages encrypted, but it's nonsense to not allow reading the power usage! We also had solar installers that couldn't be arsed to install the CTs to allow us to see how much power we're drawing from the utility. And when the homeowner emailed or called them (not sure which) to have them come back and install the CTs, the solar installers never replied.
A fly in the ointment: modern smart meters encrypt the payload with a meter-unique key. Even if you extract the key from a meter, that would enable you to listen to exactly that meter. You may still be able to do some traffic analysis on the radio side, like which meter sent a "last gasp" or to which meter a disconnect command was sent. Admittedly, in the past, some stupid utilities used the same key for their whole meter population. Extracting the keys may be difficult. The modern European L+G meters store these in encrypted flash memory together with all the other data. The meter-unique flash key is in the locked internal flash of the MCU.
These aren’t modern, highly doubt there will be unique keys per meter. The fun thing about reverse engineering and attacking smart meters is they aren’t under constant attack like Internet protocols which are robust because of that. So no telling if they even implemented these smart meter encryption systems properly.
@@RECESSIM In Europe, the utilities require an independent security evaluation of smart meters before they are allowed to be deployed. This often incorporates fuzzing, code inspection, and penetration tests. The assurance level is about Common Criteria EAL3 or better. The encryption must pass the DLMS conformance test, which shows that the implementation is logically correct and that the correct key is used. The security of the DLMS protocol got some academic attention (notably from L.J.Weith in 2014), but no significant vulnerabilities were found. The attack surface of a DLMS meter is small: the only message an unconnected meter accepts is the "Application Association Request", which is answered by the "Application Association Response". From that moment on, all messages are AES-GCM encrypted. To save resources, only the necessary software is present (no hidden root shell or such niceties 🙂A maximum of 128k program size is not uncommon.
I've got a waffle iron that was given to my parents as a wedding gift in 1959. It still works. Old technology is interesting, especially when I can show that old waffle iron to people and actually use it to cook waffles. If you ask me, I think technology in some regards has become too ridiculous. today.
My home is currently a rental and I have no idea whether my meter is "smart" but assume it is. Apparently it can be blocked at least from the destructive emfs they emit. As of 1992 when leaders of 178 countries including US signed onto Agenda 21 un, you may have noticed our resources that were publicly owned were given to corporations by government. Bills started going up when theyd been relatively low, we were only paying for distribution.
It's crazy how inaccurate they can be too. So many people have been charged too much from these meters and they love to claim there's nothing wrong with it Thankfully sometimes you can go back to a manual meter still and just pay a small monthly fee
I have had constant tinnitus since they installed a smart water meter, transmitting on a lower 412mhz radio frequency that has higher building penetration. The company are insisting these radio waves are not going through our house 40ft away but I can hear frequency sound from the meter/transceiver or interference from it with something else. What spectrum analysis equipment could I use to detect whether these signals are going through our house please?
The RF Waves go through walls like butter.. Unless you can block it with metal siding, thick aluminum foil, etc.. Gigahertz solutions has the best meters for testing.. But they are spendy.. Just assume the levels are toxic, and remedy them.. Turn your house into a faraday cage and block the signals :)
You lost me with saying we're forced to buy electricity. It's a utility that didn't exist 200 years ago and humans managed to live for tens of thousands of years. You're not entitled to electricity and you're free to generate your own or not use any.
The main reason people don't generate their own is that it makes no economic sense to do so. Solar is starting to change that, but adding enough storage to go truly off-grid is still prohibitively expensive compared to keeping a grid connection.
NO most cities do NOT allow you to produce your own or disconnect. They will consider and label it uninhabitable then FORCEFULLY evict you from it. It's been done all over
@@TheUweRoss there are also laws in place against it. you cant share power that you generate with others on your own. legally. only exception is DC because its not a state and falls outside of those laws.
API specifications are not intellectual property. They are considered corporate secrets which means as long as you didnt steal it from them illegally or by being a previous employee/contractor then you can freely reverse engineer the firmware api and write an open source implementation of your own.
The 1970s technology used in the Vietnam War that encrypted radios over a hop timing method was the KY-28. This was a secure voice encryptor that used frequency hopping spread spectrum technology to protect radio communications from enemy interception and jamming. The KY-28 was widely used by the US military during the Vietnam War and remained in service for many years after.
Once were soldiers movie about a battle there was interesting . . the airborne division did't use any of it's high tech & sent soldiers to be massacred
During my engineering degree studies, I did a 4Hr lab on the old electrodynamic watt-hour power meters. All the 50 guys in the lab got different WHr readings for identical power consumption, indicating every meter was recording different power usage and therefore consistently inaccurate. Digital measuring is consistently accurate and the Comsumer pays for only what they really use. Surely that must be an improvement.
Well not really because I guarantee your bills will go up due to the fact olde mechanical meters could not truly measure usage of devices that contain motors like watching machines etc. modern smart meters can. Your bills will only go up and not down with a smart meter!
I have old RCA 900mhz wireless headphones i use at work. The smart meter interference is annoying. Its sounds like eerrr areare eerrr areare eerrr areare.
Road tripping to Vegas for DEFCON right now, but live reading all them and replying. The fun of putting stuff out there is the people I meet along the way!
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
A video with a bunch of B-Roll from the best movie of all time AND getting me hyped about reverse engineering to save the world? Lets GO!
Open the pod bay doors HAL.
If you don't mind me asking, what's the movie ?
@@nayanasri Sneakers
💨
I don't even know, but it sounds fun :)
"if buying isn't ownership, piracy is not theft."
They are the thieves, because they have received payment in full for the products and services they provide. They issue bonds based upon the expectation of what they may sell, and nothing more. Whether or not they meet the target is irrelevant as they get the funds up front. This is true for all utilities, as well as for companies like amazon and walmart. They've already been paid in full for their entire stock - whatever they can get you to pay them is essentially 100% profit.
*So sayeth St. Rossmann. Patron saint of the pi$$ed off...*
It's a two-sided argument. Because the utilities and other evil corporations are in business to make money.
But I agree that it is often a one-sided relationship. They often focus a lot on screwing the consumer before providing their product/service to the consumer.
Not sure if that fits here but I concur lol
@@alphaforce6998 And they sell our personal information. A product that does not belong to them. They also lose it and then it is on US, to make sure someone doesn't abuse our information that we never authorized them to sell.
Here in California it took going through a few hoops, and paying a few fees, to "opt out" of a smart meter installation, but I persevered. These things were supposedly just to make it easier for crews to read usage. As it turns out, they began deciphering when refrigerators went off and on, AC units, etc. -- so they could "suggest" changes to your habits. They haven't pressed this too much (yet) that I'm aware, but it was definitely a bait-and-switch.
Yeah, with real-time power monitoring, it is possible to know what things you are using, turning on/off.
how is that bait and switch? also no , this isnt a real thing "so they could "suggest" changes to your habits."
More importantly: someone somewhere knows when you are at home...and when you're not.
@@markrainford1219 They also know can know when you are at home through heat imagers. And police DO use them.
California is also purposely raising electric rates to induce us to use less of it, and this is driving businesses out of state. We've even surpassed Hawaii and now have the highest electric rates in the USA. Either we've got to stop electing leftists or face that we will become third world.
I'm a firm believer that all critical infrastructure software should be open source. Corporations that deploy systems like this should be required to participate in bug bounty programs, DHS should be paying bounties too.
And keep the 💩 air gapped, at-least requiring the attackers to have "physical" access. (Be within legal jurisdiction)
Wow that's quite a leap. While I agree with the principle, especially in non critical systems I'm very dubious this would have good outcomes in critical infrastructure. While it might find bugs and workarounds you might well be assisting bad players to break critical infrastructure easier than currently. We all know how virus's use old version code vulnerabilities and we all know how hard it is to keep critical networks upgraded to the latest version quickly and safely and hence I think this idea would increase exposure. While I agree with jamess1787, having to be physically connected is great BUT that's going to negate much of our infrastructure operability so its simply not going to happen and maintain what is expected of modern critical infrastructure.
And what if Russia had a 0day that never got reported because it’s not “sexy” for open source world to fix?
And then you, @tonyfremont would be held responsible for any outage, attacks, etc.
You see why this isn’t as easy as just “open source” it
The issue is people will then be able to find vulnerabilities and exploit them or they will be able to communicate with the media using the infrared communication and rewind it essentially so it can’t really happen that way
@@LuisGutierrez-dr6re Russia? Sexy? Wtf.. its not as simple as open source it but common why is russia to be involved? Why not just a smart guy trying to reduce his bill? And imo any vulnerability found would be "sexy" to report..
I've worked for 8 years as an engineer on smart meter networking for a competitors to L+G's Gridstream. Multiple technologies in fact. Fascinating to see someone put so much effort on reverse-engineering it all.
My utility refuses to let us access real-time electricity usage even though we all have smart meters -- I'm glad to see someone putting in the work to do what our utility should be doing.
@@x--.Our utility provides an app we can use to see our usage but the data is delayed by 1-2 days and isn’t very detailed. To get it more detailed and more real time, we need to opt into a program with a monthly fee.
@MrVJunk well, that sure feels scammy
we need people like recessim to figure out how things work even if it takes years - keep up the good work
This is so important it needs to be done
Everyone should know how the items the use and interact with daily work.
We do. People like me have figured out how to not pay taxes.🤷
We paid for the infrastructure and pay to maintain it so we can be charged to use it?????? Everyone needs to be off grid completely. These so called for profit utilities should go out of business
@@guerillanewsfare267 I don't know... I have two Honda 3 cylinder diesel generators for backup power because our power system goes down frequently. Keeping a generator fed and listening to it all day gets old in a hurry.
I am glad curious people like you exist.
I totally agree with the statement 'They will run the system into the ground then beg the government for a bailout'. I look at the power distribution in my neighborhood alone and I see that system could not handle 5 houses running level 2 EV chargers while running their 4 ton AC units.
That’s the whole point, whoever is pulling the strings wants the system to crash so they can pick up the pieces and have complete control… and we’ll beg them to control us too. We’re just dumb sheep
@@Bigpaa The problem is those hoping for this outcome are not competent enough to run things once it does crash.
My power company have these meters
yea
They are building the PRISON around you!..
As soon as one of those meters was installed, the bills started to climb until they were unpayable, and now the house is off grid with solar to an inverter. Those meters are a crime mystery. Our heating comes from two diesel heaters now and two wood fire places. The house is now free from exploitation by companies who make massive profits and harvest the financial blood and marrow of the people.
Simply put. Utilities are Monopolized Thieves allowed to Extort Money from end users!
Yes, that's probably what's wrong. Definitely not you
Wait until they start seriously regulating solar energy, and which/how many panels you're allowed to have,
.. how much power you can use and when etc.. (like water bans but with electricity usage)
Eventually if/when they finally cut access to fossil fuel produced energy, the prices related to solar energy will skyrocket.
.. and they will have far more control than ever over the general population
@@warthogA10 who's they? Btw I've had free electricity from the grid all weekend because of the windy weather. Honestly, with solar in the summer and very cheap grid power in the windy winter, I don't pay much more than the standing charge. It's the battery that's the thing
@@seanoconnor8843 yep.. wait until they have everything to a point where they start piling on regulations.. which and how many panels etc you can have,
how much electricity you can use and when (similar to water bans today)
.. and how the prices will skyrocket.
But folks are too naive to see any of this, and fall for all the BS, because they're easy to manipulate.
Who are 'they'?
Glo balist elites and their political allies, that's who.
You'll find out, but by then it will be far too late..
. and you won't admit to any of the blame.
Oh yeah, and only 'they' will continue to have access to and use Fossil fuels.. because they're sophisticated and intelligent and they know how to use it responsibly..
And they're important so they have no choice..
😐
We should be told exactly what these opaque systems are capturing, who the data is being sold to, and why.
I also demand a share of the revenue they're generating by selling my data to third parties! I only agreed to purchase the electricity. I didn't sign a EULA for the software.
Do you really think Amazon want to know you load profile every day of the year? I don't think so.,
@@fmorgan98 You're a bot or a sheep.
@@fmorgan98 Amazon's AI systems might. AI is built on such data - the bigger, more detailed and higher resolution the better.
@@fmorgan98 do you really think the government is using your phone camera to spy on you when you rub one out?
I don't think so!
Edit: after 2 seconds of googling, the government does, in fact, use your phone camera to spy on you rubbing one out.
There may be no reason for Amazon to know right now, but there may be a future for it. Maybe Amazon develops a device that plugs into an electrical outlet and orchestrates and regulates the 'smart' electric appliances to perform a number of different things, like talking to the controller of the refrigerator to turn off/on while the AC or dryer is operating. This could be a pretty deep rabbit hole uses actually. 😕
You need to remember that those meters do not just measure the energy used. They measure the phase to let them know if you have an inductive or capacitive load. By monitoring, they can actually figure out your household habits, when you eat, sleep, shower, etc. by the type of load on the meter and how long it is on. They also report WHEN these things happen. It's not just a "meter reading' anymore. They want to charge you for the time of day you use your electric and they also want to charge you for phase corrections. This is not legal, YET. P.S. Go look up the people who were charged for electric service even though it was out for several days. There 'meter' reported 'average use' during this time. So even if you cut your electric off for several days, you are still paying for it.
In theory, efficient use of the grid helps everyone by keeping infrastructure costs down. In practice however it's just about maximizing profit and controlling what people do
Big brother is always breathing down your neck. Just waiting to bite.
Yet I bet you own a smatphone who can literally LISTEN to every word you say in private, but you are concerned by the type of information they can extract from a smartmeter ? How do you think "hey siri" works ? "She" has to listen and decipher every word you say and they can do it with or without your concent as long as you own a smartphone, I'm sure it's all in the policy they change every month or so AFTER you bought the product. A one-sided "concent", agree, or you can't use our "services".
@@BrainHurricanes Yep, own a 'smartphone'. I keep it in a deprivation chamber. Built myself. My computer has no mic or camera. I do not own a siri. I do have a private server in another location that accepts my security camera feeds only.(stay off my property) The next thing is did you read the whole thing? Does your smartphone bill you for WHEN you use it? Does it charge you for HOW you use it? Is it fair a disabled person has to pay twice as much for their electric even though they actually use less than their neighbors but because his equipment is inductive load? Do you want a rider added to your electric bill because most thing in your home are capacitive loads like most electronics are now? How did they know this? At least my phone I can look up what they can and cannot do.
@@johncundiss9098 All that shit you do is useless. Golden rule "If it transmits/receives, it can be accessed by anyone. I spent 15 years building out CBS's and tower work for Verizon.
The lending library would have been a nice idea. But, even though that didn't work out, some times things get leaked online. [wink wink] 😉
I think he alluded to the firmware being tied to a hardware key/identifier. Depending on how this was implemented, a "leaked" copy could point to the source if a unique hardware key is somehow embedded in the firmware. Without the master key it could be difficult to find and alter identifying information, as well as the risk of unwittingly breaking something
@@ldt8904 If only it were possible to get a power meter that wasn't tied to your name.
My problem is that the smart meter was sold to the consumer with the promise of automatic off peak tariffs for everyone - 7 years later still waiting - and tariffs increased 50% . 🇦🇺
O'rly? I thought it was for network management and lowering distribution costs. Also off peak systems worked from late 60s in my tiny country which was not that technological advanced as US. We used modulated signals with specific codes back then for switching off/on those appliances.
Also smart meters are important for reporting overflows (legal - like solar energy or illegal) or issues with reactive power.
It is one of the necessary equipment to use when you produce energy or buy it (even for flat rate) on short term markets with dynamic price.
@@rybalucThx for the added dimension
I just got a new water heater with a dedicated port for utility control (emergency load shedding, off peak usage, ect.). Our utility doesn't make any use of it yet, but it does make sense.
FWIW: They do give you like a $1 discount per month if you let them install their own equipment which lets them cut power to your water heater for emergency load shedding. Which is fair, but really should be worth more and would be much much better if it were an open source standard so you can actually know what it is doing.
You have to buy your power meter? Where I live the meter belongs to the power company.
The smart meter, has the ability to cut off your power remotely. You paid for that. They are also aware, if the meter gets pulled. Which might have a reason, as dumb as "bees in the box". But they now, have the ability to know exactly when, your meter was pulled, and for how long, and come review any changes to their side.
This is excellent topical content with superb production value. I've went from Recessim fan to advocate, these are the things a wider audience needs to see, whether technically inclined or not. Thanks for what you do.
Your excessive eye for detail is incredible. I do not reserve-engineer but will keep on following this exciting adventure you've initiated. Keep it up, I'm glad you're back. And thank you!
Feedback/request: Tone down the music while you're talking, it makes it hard to understand you
lose the music. thanks for this comment. I'm seriously interested in side channel attacks and differential power attacks, but the music has really ruined the video.
Dude the music got so creepy!!!!!!! Other then that holy balls this is a great video!
Actually I don't think the music was too loud relative to the voice.
While I personally enjoy the music and think it sounds nice, I also understand that there are people with audio processing disorders that cannot separate music from voice as easily as the average person. 😢
@@NathanaelNewton Tough luck for those people. Subtitles exist.
I got a letter announcing that I must now pay $10/mo. extra for not allowing a smart meter. The leccy company even tried to sneak one in but I successfully ran Dominion's felon off with my vicious dog.
if you already have a power meter, can you get a analog one installed?
@Warp3326 Analog meters are decommissioned by the electric companies so as to render them useless and no longer functional.
@@InquisitorMatthewAshcraft Not in the US. You just pay a small fee to keep your existing analog meter.
@@Warp2090 No, in the US, you have to pay a fee to keep an analog meter.
You are not crazy. Very few people care, but I consider the so called SMART METER to be an enormous change in US culture, economics, privacy, national security, weights and measures, and the rationality of any trust that people should have concerning the metering of electricity.
Not enough people have Opted Out in Areas where they allowed you to opt out. Smart meters are all about nickel and diming people up to the minute.
What if you live in a blue state and they decide to start limiting your carbon usage? This is the foundation to it. My house is 115 years old all electric, no gas, and the electric company is always telling us in our bills that we use too much electric compared to our neighbors.. I feel they have been warning me...
@@Denniss7420 I was not given a chance to opt out. They sold the idea to former president Obama based on the premise that a smart meter would use (or waste) less power than an old school meter. Old school meters had the power consumption written on the device. I suspect that would be the maximum power consumption that it would ever use. That would rarely happen, if ever. And it could be used for spying.
@@--harry_ That could happen with any kind of metering, even the Cuban style meters. (they have no meters) It would be unfair in my opinion. If your house wiring is really old, you need a master electrician to take a look at it.
@@Denniss7420 we tried to get our smart meter swapped out to an old traditional meter and they wanted quite a bit of money to do so and then they were going to charge us extra every month to have the meter read by a person
I'm 3 minutes in to my first exposure - I'm staying.
Newly subscribed.
Same. Never seen this channel in my life and I'm hooked
Is this video about the firmware to smart meters not being FOSS, or is there more to it? I skipped around but it wasn't obvious what the problem was that was the subject of the video. If it is just taking 20min to say they're proprietary...
Same
I am surprised that US smart meters do not have to adhere to IEC 62056 for meter data
The only regulation in the USA is that presumably the meter must collect accurate usage data.
@@soundspark And how exactly is that checked and by who, no one ever came to my house with a power meter and and compared it to what my meter was reporting. Sounds like they could just remotely tweek the meters a little and who would ever know? I would not trust the power company as far as I could throw it.
@@billruss6704 I meant the standards for the manufacture of the meters themselves.
I was told the meters collect the neighborhoods power n then divides it between the houses!
We should be able to opt out!!!!
@@billruss6704 it isn't hard to measure your own electrical consumption and then calculate if the bill you get is accurate.
I miss the days where rtlamr was all you needed for ITRON :(
Love that you have documented the process for the newer stuff. Amazing work!
RTLAMR is awesome. Kinda disappointed to see newer "smart" meters actually having less live telemetry 😂
I suppose there's always the option for the optical sensors -- little microcontroller counts the blinking light on the meter... not perfect but much more universal -- tons of meters have them regardless of "smartness"
Thanks a lot man! I really want to get this to a place where the RTL-SDR could be used to hop along with any meter and decode data like RTL-AMR.
@@RECESSIMinternet archive was hacked deleted
As a software engineer, I came here after the electricity provider conducted an on-site interference measurement. It appears that three devices in my household are emitting disturbances that interfere with the frequency used by the electricity provider for their communication via PLC. Now they want me to install a filter-what a joke! If they want to use this lousy PLC, why isn't there a built-in filter or blocker? What a joke these companies are!
What devices were causing the interference, and did it make a difference where they were physically plugged in? Closer to the fuse panel/meter or further away?
@@RECESSIM A frequency converter for a pool pump, one ceiling LED lamp (panel), and a power supply. All with CE-Label. We haven't had much time to test yet, but there is some distance between the frequency converter since the main issue (the frequency converter), as it's in an outbuilding. All the devices were plugged in, and we had to unplug and shut down the entire house to find the exact devices causing the interference.
I now have 4 weeks to either fix this issue or remove the devices, as it could affect the neighbors and everything else too. It seems that working filters/blockers are hard to find and can get expensive. The only one I tested today that actually fixed one device cost 200 euros (I tested four filters for this device). Something for all three phases costs around 800 euros. I wish I could have my old e-meter back, but we're being forced to use smart meters.
@@TheHausi91wow, that sucks! What’s even worse is they’re making YOU pay for the filters needed for THEIR system to work. They should have tested it with realistic devices plugged in.
If they want a quiet power line, they can filter it at the entrance to your panel, at THEIR expense.
PG&E had a loose wire feeding my house..I was getting fluctuating 120v , no 240v. The meter would flash or go blank. They replaced the meter but is was the wire connection. They decided I owed them a ridiculous amount of money for their fluctuating 120v(I couldn't run my well) and turned off my power! PG&E is pure evil, I'm filing with CPUC, and making videos..Thank you for using your incredible brain for Good!
Same company that put chromium 6 in the water table. You most be in the high desert.
@@wannabecarguy I didn't know about the chromium..I'm in Shasta, they control the land, water, electricity, local and state government.. I'll be doing more research and exposés on them.. including the ridiculously overpaid CEO..
Dang! You’re still at it on this project. That’s awesome! Over a year ago, I set up an SDR to listen to my meter. You’ve uncovered a lot since then.
I work for a smart meter company (not L&G) and I can say for sure that the only way you will extract firmware from our meters is by decapping the chip and performing a circuit edit using a FIB/SEM system!
As for listening to RF messages, all data is encrypted. Each meter has unique public/private keys installed before shipping to the utility.
Mail me a meter anonymously… and let’s find out 😁
'everything wireless is hackable'
I don't doubt the hardware security is high on the meters your company makes. Beyond the ability of most to obtain the firmware.
However, hardware hackers come up with pretty innovative ways. I am sure you are familiar with side channels, glitching attacks etc as well as potential software bugs that may allow memory to be leaked, or access gained.
Perhaps whoever makes the actual board and board SDK of your meter has strong defences against known attacks and made that a priority. Maybe the devices also wipe their own firmware if a hardware attack is detected. I can think of other defences also.
But being certain without the decapping route (which some people do) might be overdoing it. Just be glad those smart meters aren't a hacker mass appeal device like phones/consoles :)
As for transmitted data encryption, and any potential vulnerabilities related to unauthorized parties attacking individual meters or meter networks, always assume it is a possibility that harm could be caused despite best efforts of R&D/security teams.
@@tisme1105assuming the keys aren’t reused (we know how often they are) dumping the keys and firmware will at best let you look for any vulnerabilities in how the code handles the encryption… if it’s bad enough the traffic may as well not be encrypted
P=p* has been solved. Encryption at less than 10e12 bits is futile. Welcome to the qubit age.
I dedicated majority of my life to digital security, and have never been able to state my frustrations with for profit critical infrastructure, and not owning hardware I purchased as eloquently as you did. Wonderful video, and I wish I had the time to aid in this work. What is funny about this video, is that it randomly popped up on my TH-cam feed the day after I was staring at my own power meter, which I recited the name and model number to myself.
Google was listening 😂
AI word recognition is a funny thing.
The last statement you make starting with " my you tube feed....is very interesting....my thought/ question: Brain wave read, thought capture? There appears to be something very subtle here. Not an engineer, I'm a Forensic Analyst.
They ARE listening.
@@pamelaranney6631Yes! I often get YT feed suggestions based upon thoughts, not conversational disclosures. Pure evil.
FYI, the easiest way to get the right meters is to publish a list of utilities using the meter and network - generally speaking the utilities are "locked in" - they can't switch networks without replacing everything or running multiple sets of equipment. The utility name is printed on the meter so a photo of the meter itself should reveal the utility using it. And yes, all meters are keyed to a utility - that's why it's printed on the label.
Where I am in Australia, the retailer gets to pick the meter vendor, it’s separate from the utility, but still has to meet a standard and all data goes to the utility for actual billing
Just about every utility is investing in smart meters that can transmit their usage and outages in real time.
The meters do not say the utility name because it's a separate company that manufactures them, and sells them to a utility.
@@JohnD-JohnD yeah, I know that already. There's also more advanced stuff a retailer can do with the smart meters, like turning controlled loads on and off at will, which was previously only controlled by the utility itself.
@@JamesTK Same in the UK 🇬🇧
@@lizardlovin yeah I think the technology is largely being standardised globally since the metering companies can sell more meters
13:10 - Re: the Texas freeze, there were power companies who refused to push that expense on the costumers. I don't recall what the main power producing conglomerate is called, but the smaller businesses were told to push the cost of electricity on the costumers. There were, as said, some who refused. Who went as far as to declare bankruptcy rather than destroy people's lives. These were worker owned cooperatives. When they declared bankruptcy their businesses (holdnings, stuff owned by the business) was bought up, cheap, by other worker owned cooperatives. Then sold back to newly created worker owned cooperative that just happened to do the same thing as the previous bankrupt one, and just happen to have the same people working with the same jobs, taking in the same customers. Thus, the costs were pushed back unto those who tried to profit off of others desperation.
Worker owned cooperatives have a far different motivation than share holder owned businesses do. Worker owned cooperatives want to keep their customers, it's how they're ensured an income and work. Shareholders just care about profit.
This is why we love TX
It is called “demand charges” which pay the infrastructure expenses for transporting the power to the consumer, poles substations etc. in Most places it was a common surprise and huge expense to people having a commercial electric service for the first time. Apparently demand charges were not being charged on the systems you described which explains the fragile Texas transmission distribution systems.
Costumers work at the theatre. Customers buy things.
@@joea1433There were no "Demand" charges here either until they started shuttering local energy for the green energy scam.
@@MUUKOW3What do you mean Green Energy Scam? Texas is one of the highest producers of Wind and Solar? Once all the oil is out of the ground, it will be the only energy left ( besides nuclear)
I'm only half way through your video and I'm hooked! Instant sub! I am a candidate for Massachusetts 1st Congressional District and my mission in life is to free us from the corporate rule and influence that has taken over our government for the sole purpose of making profits. If we work together, there are so many problems we can address, and address quickly, for the benefit of ALL. I feel a change coming over the next few administrations. It could be good, or it could be bad. It's time for the next generation of political leaders. Leaders that put PEOPLE OVER POLITICS. Stop electing the rich and well connected to govern us all. I know I started rambling and this turned into a campaign message, but I really hope you see it as a chance to enact meaningful change. We just need to unite and work together for the common good, the things we could achieve are limitless...
Those who believe in elections, Wall Street, wal mart, might believe in the Supreme Jesuit oath.
One of the best videos I have seen. And like you said we are all paying for it... over and over again! These meters are consuming electricity for which we are all paying for. Even though they are Company own and used for their own purpose, not ours. Now multiply that for millions of meters a year and how many yachts are we as customers paying for? "Hacking is not a crime... is a consumer necessity." [ %4 are actually fees-just like a tax!] I think it needed to be said. Thanks for sharing.
These meters are powered from the utility side. The power they consume does not pass through the part which meters the consumption.
@@basketballjones6782 Show me in a schematic; please. And Thanks for your patience. Been waiting for a couple of day!
@@teddypreston5525 Whilst its not the specific model here BigClive did a tear down of one and found that it was powered pre metering. however if its pre meter or not its sure as hell not the company that pays for it in the long run, it will be hidden in the service charge or in the rates for every consumer.
I've some familarity with the subject. Worked for a uility and learned/coded how to talk to meters (Ansi C12.19). One key thing to remember is that the utility wants the meter read from month to month. As most residential customers are still billed on the kwhr usage for the billing period...not the hourly usage. So they need only get the meter read at the end of the billing period...from the diff of the meter reads they can get the total kwhr the customer has used. In the old days, if an outage occurs we only knew the outage was when the customer called it in. Parts of the distribution network (the wires on the poles) might call in an area outage...but never an individual customers. Also, not only is the outage important...so is the restoration of power message. As sometimes an area outage will mask individual outages.
So unless your in some kind of time of day billing (which still is very coarse, time periods of 8 to 12 hours, or even days of week) the meter a'nt communicating very much up stream. 24hrs of usage data is a very small amount of data...and its only being collected once/day. What you are probably seeing on the mesh network, is constant appraisal by the meters and collector as to what paths are available for the quickest way upstream. Meter needs to know what nearby meter has the shortest link chain to a connector, the collector needs to know what reporting meter links to its destination meter it want to talk to. If a meter is unable to talk to any nearby meter, its going to go into a "any one out there" message repeating. Also, firmware updates, new meter initialzation, etc is going on as they deploy the meters.
Even for periodic usage purposes (such as area load studies), it only wants hourly from residential. Industrial maybe 15 min intervals.
Meters that can shut the power off are more expensive...last I heard about $100 more..and thats only for residential...big customers you can't have a 1000amp circuit breaker in a meter. So utilities don't really want to deploy remote shutoff everwhere, just in locals where shutoffs are common, such as college towns, etc. Meters before being smart cost around $20, maybe smart meters are $50 to $100. If you have million customers that big bucks to buy....and deploying itself is expensive.
Also, diff meter manufacturers are using different protocals....Itron derives from a drive by system.
Net metering is a twist too, but can be easily handled.
Finally, meters comm should be talking encrypted...if not you should be worried.
Thanks for a very informative comment!
@@RECESSIM Why no email?
It must be utter hell walking past a wall of smart meters quietly mocking you as you pass by😂😂
lol .... I see PTSD in someone's future
Or giving off radiation with their pulse mechanism, the low frequency over a period of time will start to affect your circadium rhythm.
when we got solar power, the 2 meters that were installed in the house in 2020, were not correctly showing the solar power to the grid, and was not correctly recording what we imported. So they got replace in Feb 24, with another pair of identical meters, which seem to be more consistent, but are still not showing exactly the same values. It makes me very suspicious about the actual workings of the smart meter. Im just fortunate that I sell lots in the summer that offsets the winter errors and so don't have a bill. What you are doing fascinates me. I barely understand 5% of what you are talking about, but look forward to your next video.
You're welcome (for my tax dollars subsidizing your solar crap).
Most places follow ANSI standard which allows a 0.3% deviation from 100%. No two meters will ever be exactly the same.
as soon as a smart meter became compulsory, i cut grid tie altogether, built a 8kw off grid system for less than the meter and 6 months power bill, never looked back, weather, global conflicts, economic collapse are just inconsequential events to me, let alone the savings of 5k$ a year from power bills, power outages are other peoples problem, worst case scenario is if it's overcast for long periods, i might have to put a couple dollars fuel in the generator to charge the batteries sporadically, anyone with a high school education can do it, provided you don't live in a sardine can that society calls apartment buildings, seems to me a great deal of people are content with modern slavery that society calls wages, and will drive themselves into an early grave to pad the pockets of big business.
So many people without a second thought had them installed. I live in a retirement development. I received a mailing saying they were going to do it. Called for info and asked if it was possible for them to shut my electric off from the meter. They said yes but that would never happen😂😂😂. I’m paying an extra 15 bucks a month to keep my old meter but I see it as money well spent👍.
I think the issue is that the power companies didn't disclose you could opt out, at least not very clearly. So everyone felt forced. Even my in laws say to this day they're forced to have it, even after I showed them the section that says they can opt out still lol
Not given a choice were I live. Nor when I lived in Ontario, Canada. At least it is not used the same way on the East Coast, as the nightmare created in Ontario. Forcing families to wait until after 7 to feed their children, I creasing obesity and making sure children are tired in school from being up too late.
My smart meter was installed while I was not at home. Nothing announcing it had been installed. It just appeared and my other meter disappeared. BS per normal.
Can confirm. I used to work in the meter bill department and fixed bill errors. Current, Voltage, Power, Reactive Power, Time, and trends and more are all recorded and stored. With “green” energy on the rise, we will be forced to use energy that is volatile and not dependable. Furthermore, solar systems attached to the grid (so you can “sell” your solar power) have to be monitored and controlled. The power company can turn your power off whenever they deem necessary and also inevitably implement Time of Day rates. I know there is a ton of security behind accessing meters… 🤐
They don't buy your solar power that you don't use they give you a credit which in most states don't even do anymore. Now they charge you to store your extra power.
The problem with solar is that no one can be honest about it.
@@garyfeltman4482plus they outlawed the best panels.
Solar 'Sold' to the grid? Not in CA.
$25/month just to connect to the grid 'SMUD'.
SMUD doesn't give you the opportunity to sell your Solar.
@@ThePearsch What kind of moron is still living in California?
When ever the clip-on "Smart" is added to a product. I knew yrs ago it meant smart for the seller not for the consumer.
RECESSIM, Have you ever tried to change utility providers ? Don't know how it is in your state but in mine a while back they automatically decertified certain code approvals so you'd have to re-certify w/the town etc.. Utility Cos are behemoths in the political spectrum. When I heard Electric Cos planned to make people pay to return power to the grid via solar panels they own on their roofs ! That's the final straw, they're corrupt greedy & about as anti-conservation as one can get. Bravo to your efforts sir, hope you find the truth
13:30 nailed it. This is true of almost all utility systems I’ve been involved with. As a technician on for profit owned Water utility systems in Arizona.
14:00 is what they all wait for while extracting as much profit as possible without reinvestment. 14:00 is bonus time handout for all their cronies and their friends
Is that your voice? You could earn a fortune as a narrator. The pacing and tone is absolutely incredible
This channel just gets better and better. Enjoying the journey with you.
If the meter isn't transmitting how much power that the customer is using as a value encoded within its signals, then it's sending signals at specific times to encode values, or, it's sending signals at specific power usage increments. For example, if it only sends a signal every 0.1kwh, then all they have to do is count the number of signals received and multiply by 0.1 to get the total number of kwh used by that customer. This can also work if the customer has solar and is putting power into the grid if they just include a simple flag bit in the signal itself to indicate whether the increment refers to using or providing power to the grid. If there's no power usage data *in* the signal, then the power usage data *is* the signal itself. Otherwise, it's the timings of the signals that's encoding usage. Surely they knew people would try to hack the smartmeters, and security through obscurity works if you can obscure what you're doing enough that nobody can figure it out. Heck, usage might actually be encoded in the data that's being transmitted, obfuscated by blending it with the visible data, and you just have to look harder!
My solar has a Smart meter for “Consumption”, and a 2nd Smart meter for “Production” (which all PV power runs through), so they are able to tell house consumption, and production via multiple methods.. I am in a program that pays based on production, regardless of where the power is used (some powers the house, while excess flows back to the grid/neighbors)
The meters store the usage until queried. There is no need to query them all the time as they can hold months' worth of data. They only need to be read once a month for billing purposes, but typically are read once a week. So the problem here is that the connection for a meter has to be tracked while the frequency-hopping spread spectrum (FHSS) is going on, for the entire month, to grab those meter reads.
Could very well be encrypted for privacy reasons.
Also the regulatory agency want to limit time resolution for privacy reasons, like no way to get values between the metering intervals.
The question is likely more about finding the key!
@@mwolrich That's interesting. Our solar setup has a box that the panels route into and then that connects to the breaker box and then out through the meter - so during a sunny day when we're generating more than we're using we just see a negative reading on the power meter. If I want to see what the panels are doing I can log into a web interface that shows me panel outputs and totals in 15-minute intervals throughout the day.
@@CharlesVanNoland yes, I see the Consumption meter moving forward and backwards as will (its digital), a good month the ending reading is lower than the starting reading (generated more power than consumed), I have an Enphase microinverter system, it has Production CT’s as well as Consimption CT’s, the web portal shows the status as well.. but the Smart meters are for National Grid, the utility, for billing as well as solar credits from production.. those are all “revenue” grade meters.
I don't understand how Americans can let companies control the utility companies. I'm sure it saved money at first, the infrastructure exists and can be depreciated without the big capital costs, those companies quickly form oligopolies, the infrastructure now in disrepair fails and there is limited accountability and the Corp has a blank cheque for new infrastructure. Meter companies are part of this archaic system and trying desperately to find a way to create a system that requires a subscription model. Only they can test a device to confirm its accurate, only they can work on a device to repair it (repair manuals are inaccessible), only their distributors can provide you with replacement parts and batteries. I would go as far as to say they are worse than pharma companies. Anyway, I'm done my rant, enjoyed your video and now will get back to fighting the "Big Meters" industry and try to stop them from bleeding society dry.
1:30 But you never discovered what this message means? I want my 20 min back.
Thank you. Your time stamped comment saved me early on
Thanks. Jumped off at 2:00
Thank you
Reminds me of the efforts years back to virtualize an OSX/MacOS image to VM. That final icing on the cake was a trival string of text found in legal paper work from decades old lawsuits that unlocked the potential to do so.
One thing is sure, these things serve multi-layered purposes, that's not just to read electricity consumption.
So, after all this, did you ever locate the actual power value transmitted to the power company?
I opted out for a smartmeter...nothing I want to have. Unfortunately, I get charged extra each month for not having one.
Even without a smartmeter, each month I receive a "home energy report" that specifies "where" my home uses energy. Line items include lighting, kitchen, electronics, heating, other, laundry, and cooling. They say 35% of my energy usage is for lighting...really? I can assure you I sit at night with ONE LED bulb illuminated, no security lights, so where do they come up with 35%? Percentages listed for the other catagories are BS also. I have zero confidence that any data I receive from the power company is accurate!
Even with smart meters they can not tell what is using power in such a granular way. They are making assumptions. I track my use with clamp meters. I can tell when my electric furnace kicks on, its very obvious when a 50amp load is running. Its very hard to see a 10w load turn on, its well with in the margin of error
Technically they aren't supposed to charge for opt out because the government already reimbursed them for potential opt outs. So. They're double dipping. Smart meters are Invasive surveillance tech... They are also extremely harmful for the health of anything living... Between smart meters and WiFi everyone is unaware of the severe damage being done to their bodies...
You are supposed to be able to have an old meter without extra cost if you can provide a doctors note that informs the power company that you have a health issue that the meter makes worse (like, you had cancer or you're EM sensitive) once you have a meter it's difficult to get removed. If they come to remove it they're known for blowing out your power and leaving, and you end up having to find an electrician to come fix your power at your expense. They're also known for telling customers they removed the smart meter but they actually installed a semi smart meter, usually the customer pays their double dipping fees and when they find out they were lied to they're given the run around and told they'll be charged again whenever they can locate an old meter,
Same . . bill tripled here in Australia when refused a smart meter , we'l see what happens
You are only paying that extra amount because you accepted the contract they offered you. If you think it's fair to charge you extra to use the same "old" safe equipment then carry on. If however you find the situation unacceptable, you can change this by replying with an conditional acceptance.
Agree , we pay an extra 13$ a month for not having smart meter ! We also get that letter saying we use more energy then our neighbors . We are dumbfounded as we have had our house gutted all new solid cell spray foam insulation , the lighting has all been converted to led , the heating system is a wood pellet stove , the hot water is on demand ! We don't watch tv , nor do we seldom use our smart phones or computer so that letter is nothing more then fear mongering .
I got DEEP into smart meter development earlier in my career and was so frustrated by manufactures totally locking out the consumer to access THEIR OWN consumption information. The SEP2.0 OPEN communication standard was under development but FERC didn’t have the balls to mandate an open standard like the FCC did with WiFi. It is SO COOL to see this jail brake effort. It will lead to security problems and solutions but more importantly with enable the INTERNET OF THINGS to become a reality! I’ll be closely following the evolution of this campaign.
The electric company came to my house a few years ago and REPLACED the "gear-wheel?" inside of my meter. THEY said it was a necessary UPGRADE!!!
I had NO CHANGES in my electric usage!!! But, my electric bill raised 50%!!! I'm wondering if the gear tooth ratio on the gear mechanism is in THEIR favor???
Well if nothing changed in your electric ⚡ usage you should complain.
You should Opt Out and get an analog meter.
You need to also consider the possibility that you were just gettting electricity for less than you were meant to and they then fixed their mistake. Though if this had been the case they really should have told you, in the few instances I've known where someone has had a utility bill increased due to undercharging the utility has notified the customer of the mistake and the change (and in one case even demanded someone pay 6 years of electricity arrears despite the mistake being on the part of the company, sheesh).
@@MrWiseinheart
I did. OUR electric company is INDEPENDENT PRIVATE OWNED!!!
The PUCO (Public Utilities Commission of Ohio) CAN'T do ANYTHING about Lodi electric company practices!!!
@@krashd
WOW!!!
vid got real serious all of a sudden
top tier content
Looking forward to this series! I’m interested to learn more about your process, tools, GR blocks, etc. for reverse engineering the RF side of things.
Our city recently switched from Elster EnergyAxis water and electric meters to Itron Gen5. I had written ea_receiver and rfm69-elster for those Elster meters based off the work of argilo and others, but the Itron Gen5 stuff doesn’t have much research available on it yet. Right now my process is pretty slow and manual - capture some samples on my RSP1A clone sans-antenna in hopes that I’m capturing the meter and not a neighbors weather station, pull them into inspectrum, and hand decode in there. Once I’m certain I’ve got the correct device, I can at least program the syncword into something like an sx1276 so that I can collect a few days of broadcasts and look for patterns. But my guess is that they’re all encrypted and unless they’ve done something stupid, chances are slim that I’ll get anything useful.
Thanks! I have no idea why the YT algorithm put this in my feed. But this is the most fascinating video I’ve seen in ages! Keep up the good fight!
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it
I would love to monitor my power consumption live.
Then buy a power monitor. Simple. Easy. Works instantly.
I think it gets pretty boring pretty fast unless you are a corporation looking for behavior signals
I would love to monitor your's too, to know when to break in :D
Here in Texas Centerpoint provides this service to each customer if you want it. (free)
This system in this video is the code for Landys+Gyr. The software to do that is the [SmartData Connect].
we flat out refused to have one fitted. told them they can gather their data from someone else, and we dont need a 'smart' meter to know how much electric we use.
I'm glad you're back it's been awhile
Fun times working on these in my early career as a software engineer. Everything was completely foreign to me at a hardware level, but it was rewarding to learn all the neat hardware and features. Especially travelling the country and going to meter farms for mass deployment testing. Depending on the meter not only does it use RF mesh for communication, but also data over mains power and others, where rf and mains communication is sketchy, have a 3g/4g backhaul for communication.
In Australia, smart meters are "pinged" over the power-lines themselves. This can be every 30 minutes (example: early morning) or every 3,5 or 10 minutes (example: peak hours). Power draw from those meters tell the Network Operator how much load is being used, and gives them time to co-ordinate with the generators. This is largely anonymous data. They also ping meters at the end of the billing period, this is personal data. Every meter has its own individual digital fingerprint. Data sent to the Energy Retailers, is spread out over the 50 working days/quarter, so they don't get everything on one day. Meter ID's are only assigned to a Retailer, if they have a contract for that consumer's address.
The meter I have has a 4G modem… no mention of comms over power. That might have been on early meters.
Comm over power is a newer tech than GPRS
Thanks for the video. I’m not a tech geek but I’ve had for years a smart , smart electrical meter for my house. It’s a time of day use meter. Depending on the time of day my electricity rates change. I have rates . Peak , mid Peak , off Peak hours. I get a print out with my utility bill showing my electricity usage during these time periods.
Bet your bill has gone up significantly too...they do everywhere
In most areas, the utility company requires all new meter installations to be these wifi smart things.
But in some areas, you can legally get an electrician to replace broken meters with any meter which meets certifications. The trick is to find a way for your wifi meter to somehow break ...
*Oops. My bad. I raised the Bobcat's bucket too high...*
Where I live the utility owns the meter and puts a seal on the meter box to deter tampering.
you people ever heard of rigging a generator to a microwave emitter pointed to that thing ? #letitcook
be real careful about grounding the microwave, else it will your last inhale & exhale on the 3rd rock from the sun.
@@soundsparkme to but you are free to remove that seal and pull the meter. They won't like it but they can't stop you
@@blackrifle6736 & ripped the power to house cable out
This video was QUALITY at its finest. I was wondering about these as they are starting to be implemented in my area. Always feel uncomfortable with the level of tracking we all endure today. And this is proof that EVERYTHING can be tracked and sold for profit.
The Mr.Robot clips is making me wanna re-watch the show for a 3rd time
...still under talked about. One of the best shows of all time, easily
over hyped, looking past a the hacks there is not much left in it
what are those movies? I saw Sneakers and Heat.
Problem with smart meter is we cant see or understand their process.
The other problem is they go by what you used the prior year of that particular month, use that to charge you a similar amount for present billing. Basically we are billed in a way they get whatever money they want.
Thanks Hash that was a great video explaining the smart meter network.
I miss you doing the "news" in reverse engineering. Though all your videos are gems.
I’ll likely start them back up after DEFCON 32 is over. I miss throwing cards! 😂
I was lucky enough to find one of the first meters they ever made from a very old house in Vaucluse. It’s still in mint condition. Also kept all the old ceramic switchboard stuff as well as one of the first safety switches. Very cool stuff! Love your channel! Liked and shared! Keep up the good work
Amazing how digestible you present such difficult topics! Did a project and my thesis in smart cities and remote metering systems and the security and privacy aspect of them is scary... Great content and even greater the cause! Thank you for this spark you are starting :)
Not being paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
The privatisation model for supplying utilities, such as energy, water, effluent treatment, can work, provided that the regulator/ watch dog is effective, which has not been the case for Thames Water in the UK, thus allowing the Australian corporate investors to award themselves substantial bonuses whilst discharging insufficiently treated sewerage at lowest cost, into rivers etc., instead of improving /maintaing the aging infrastructure that they are accountable for. Ofwat, the regulator, failed the country by overlooking this practice until activists raised the alarm, ie another example of the default ineffectiveness of government institutions.
Not only is this closed but it really looks like they went through some decent effort to even hide it as much as possible by using the spectrum hopping. Some effort went into making it as hard as possible to decode the signals. That makes me question the security, as maybe they are relying on security through obscurity instead of encryption and preshared keys for example. Imagine if someone figures out how to turn off power to random meters lol. Someone could actually take down the entire grid if they are strategic about this. Turn off power to a couple major customers and it would cause things to trip. I do believe stuff like this absolutely should be open source. In fact I should be able to buy a device that reads my smart meter so I can measure my own usage too. The meter is on my house, I should be allowed to get more insights into what's going on.
one might even think that could be the point... POWER GRID HACKED AND MORE AT 11
The utilities are supposed to be giving customers access to their own data through Zigbee or a web page or whatever but mine hasn't done anything so far, and I've had a smart meter for years.
How would a couple hundred meters in your neighborhood be able to communicate on the same frequency channel without a bunch of garbled messages and collisions, if they wouldn't use spectrum hopping? Isn't that simply how most wireless networks work? I'm not sure what the situation in the US is like, but regarding security in Europe I'm 100% sure, they are using pre-shared keys and several layers of security for the actual transport channels. At least where I live, a utility company ordering meters from Landis+Gyr would receive the meters accompanied by a bunch of key files. Oftentimes 2 or 3 per meter to control different levels of access, since reading metering data is less dangerous than remotely switching relays on or off. I wouldn't be surprised, if the message he captured and couldn't figure out is just the encrypted payload containing the actual metering data.
@@lupf5689 Same way wifi works. They each take their turn essentially. I assume there is collision detection as well. Kinda like old style ethernet with hubs. with the way they jump frequencies it's probably more advanced though. There might also be some multiplexing at play where they each get a very tiny time slot.
This channel should have 100x its viewership
What is your target demographic? The places you choose to use odd metaphors for the laymen and when you just go ahead with an assumption of knowledge is all over the place. Wouldn't someone familiar with SDR's typically know what firmware is? And if they aren't familiar with firmware, they probably don't know what SDR means.
Not every TH-camr has a target demographic, they simply make videos and if people like the videos they subscribe. In fact I'd go so far as to say that is how all but the top 10% of TH-camrs do it, they don't really have time in their day to fart about with pie charts and stats.
I remembered a swat team raiding a house the power company had been able to see the use of grow lights through the data and the cops came in they also use infrared on houses with helicopter/ drones . To see the lights
hash, all your videos are sick, but this one is far and away the best so far! like proper nerd storytelling
Appreciate that man!
I hope your good deeds go unpunished. Thanks for taking action and sharing your hard-earned knowledge
I work for a large electric utility and help maintain the smart meter grid from a hardware standpoint.
These are absolutely better than the old meters that required a meter reader to collect the data and the company was essentially blind when it came to power outages.
Some other food for thought as you look into the data. Some electric smart meter mesh networks share their network capacity with other utilities, like gas companies. If you are scanning that data, you may also see data from gas and water meters.
If you are doing this to verify how much power you have used, there are other ways to get that data to confirm your usage in real time.
News is SMART meters emit dangerous levels of EMF....
Do you have something against meter readers? Your work has contributed to their layoffs. Does that make you feel good? Do you actually claim the utility companies never knew about power outages the way it used to be done?
@@basketballjones6782 lol. That's an odd reply. The newer meters are way better at providing real time stats than someone who walked across your lawn once a month. Including power outages.
I didn't invent the things, I help keep that mesh network running. If you are angry about their existence, your anger is directed in the wrong direction.
All the meter readers that got laid off is the real sad problem.
@@franklofarojr.2969
Yes, and the invention of bread factories put bakers out of business.
The invention of the pulse phone put telephone operators out of work.
The invention of the smart phone put camera manufactures out of business.
got a meter a while back took it apart and looked around reassembled it and stuck it on the shelf and forgot about it until this vid popped up.. :)
I have been missing the sharped dressed man is a suit. But at least I no longer worry about my wife getting all hot and bothered..
This video was extremely well produced, and I cannot wait until the next one in this series drops. I have alway wanted to know how my utility smart meter works, as I I am running my house with gorilla solar, only using them as a generator. I stick it to them every way I can. They have proven to be noting more than a abuser of Power, with no concern for the customer only for the profit. It's my turn to get some flesh from them. Technology is moving forward and soon storage will be cheap enough that many will no longer need them. Power to the People!
I saw an article talking about how to use an RTL-SDR to get readings from smart meters into Home Assistant, only to find that the meter we have has some proprietary protocol that hasn't been decoded.
I can understand keeping control messages encrypted, but it's nonsense to not allow reading the power usage!
We also had solar installers that couldn't be arsed to install the CTs to allow us to see how much power we're drawing from the utility. And when the homeowner emailed or called them (not sure which) to have them come back and install the CTs, the solar installers never replied.
Utility companies should not be allowed to pay dividends
A fly in the ointment: modern smart meters encrypt the payload with a meter-unique key. Even if you extract the key from a meter, that would enable you to listen to exactly that meter. You may still be able to do some traffic analysis on the radio side, like which meter sent a "last gasp" or to which meter a disconnect command was sent.
Admittedly, in the past, some stupid utilities used the same key for their whole meter population.
Extracting the keys may be difficult. The modern European L+G meters store these in encrypted flash memory together with all the other data. The meter-unique flash key is in the locked internal flash of the MCU.
These aren’t modern, highly doubt there will be unique keys per meter.
The fun thing about reverse engineering and attacking smart meters is they aren’t under constant attack like Internet protocols which are robust because of that. So no telling if they even implemented these smart meter encryption systems properly.
@@RECESSIM In Europe, the utilities require an independent security evaluation of smart meters before they are allowed to be deployed. This often incorporates fuzzing, code inspection, and penetration tests. The assurance level is about Common Criteria EAL3 or better.
The encryption must pass the DLMS conformance test, which shows that the implementation is logically correct and that the correct key is used.
The security of the DLMS protocol got some academic attention (notably from L.J.Weith in 2014), but no significant vulnerabilities were found.
The attack surface of a DLMS meter is small: the only message an unconnected meter accepts is the "Application Association Request", which is answered by the "Application Association Response". From that moment on, all messages are AES-GCM encrypted.
To save resources, only the necessary software is present (no hidden root shell or such niceties 🙂A maximum of 128k program size is not uncommon.
That’s very interesting, thanks for sharing!
never been more offended, toaster ovens boring? firmware for microwaves is my platonic ideal of a job
You need to get out more.
I've got a waffle iron that was given to my parents as a wedding gift in 1959. It still works. Old technology is interesting, especially when I can show that old waffle iron to people and actually use it to cook waffles. If you ask me, I think technology in some regards has become too ridiculous. today.
My home is currently a rental and I have no idea whether my meter is "smart" but assume it is. Apparently it can be blocked at least from the destructive emfs they emit.
As of 1992 when leaders of 178 countries including US signed onto Agenda 21 un, you may have noticed our resources that were publicly owned were given to corporations by government. Bills started going up when theyd been relatively low, we were only paying for distribution.
I am just looking forward to the day when someone figures out how to tell the power company they used -999999KWH this week.
Everyone that I know, myself included, saw their power bill increase after the installation of a smart meter.
Could do without the background music
Giving you big props for the Sneakers clip. Saw thst the first time when I was 11 and it's still one of my favorites.
Why the annoying background sound effects?
Why the annoying comment?
@@chadcowan6912😂 exactly 👍🏻
It's crazy how inaccurate they can be too. So many people have been charged too much from these meters and they love to claim there's nothing wrong with it
Thankfully sometimes you can go back to a manual meter still and just pay a small monthly fee
Thanks! H.O.P.E.
Thank YOU! HACK THE PLANET! 🌏
@@RECESSIMnext time, dont put that evving noise in the background. Can hardly hear what the f you're saying
@@kimanih6903 crank it up
I love that movie hackers and take down those are my favorite hacker movies @@RECESSIM
@@RECESSIM Im kinda wondering if the trafic is secure MQTT the last will and testmate on power off made me wonder this
music is like he is on mission, respect
I have had constant tinnitus since they installed a smart water meter, transmitting on a lower 412mhz radio frequency that has higher building penetration.
The company are insisting these radio waves are not going through our house 40ft away but I can hear frequency sound from the meter/transceiver or interference from it with something else.
What spectrum analysis equipment could I use to detect whether these signals are going through our house please?
The RF Waves go through walls like butter.. Unless you can block it with metal siding, thick aluminum foil, etc.. Gigahertz solutions has the best meters for testing.. But they are spendy.. Just assume the levels are toxic, and remedy them.. Turn your house into a faraday cage and block the signals :)
Thank you, you give me hope, that we can turn this around
These meters are an electrical interface unit for all your electrics creating that Internet of Things. They are an INVASIVE TECHNOLOGY
Back in mid 70,s I was a analog meter reader for a gas company in Southern Colorado,
Great easy job
You lost me with saying we're forced to buy electricity. It's a utility that didn't exist 200 years ago and humans managed to live for tens of thousands of years. You're not entitled to electricity and you're free to generate your own or not use any.
Youre not entitled to water either.
The main reason people don't generate their own is that it makes no economic sense to do so. Solar is starting to change that, but adding enough storage to go truly off-grid is still prohibitively expensive compared to keeping a grid connection.
Check out DIY Solar forum started by TH-camr Will Prowse
NO most cities do NOT allow you to produce your own or disconnect. They will consider and label it uninhabitable then FORCEFULLY evict you from it. It's been done all over
@@TheUweRoss there are also laws in place against it. you cant share power that you generate with others on your own. legally. only exception is DC because its not a state and falls outside of those laws.
Video starts at 15:00. I have never seen a video with so much blatant fluff.
API specifications are not intellectual property. They are considered corporate secrets which means as long as you didnt steal it from them illegally or by being a previous employee/contractor then you can freely reverse engineer the firmware api and write an open source implementation of your own.
Your background music is too dominating over your voice.
The 1970s technology used in the Vietnam War that encrypted radios over a hop timing method was the KY-28. This was a secure voice encryptor that used frequency hopping spread spectrum technology to protect radio communications from enemy interception and jamming. The KY-28 was widely used by the US military during the Vietnam War and remained in service for many years after.
Once were soldiers movie about a battle there was interesting . . the airborne division did't use any of it's high tech & sent soldiers to be massacred
0:26 LoRa 900mhz city spanning community mesh Network
During my engineering degree studies, I did a 4Hr lab on the old electrodynamic watt-hour power meters. All the 50 guys in the lab got different WHr readings for identical power consumption, indicating every meter was recording different power usage and therefore consistently inaccurate. Digital measuring is consistently accurate and the Comsumer pays for only what they really use. Surely that must be an improvement.
www.utwente.nl/en/news/2017/3/313543/electronic-energy-meters-false-readings-almost-six-times-higher-than-actual-energy-consumption#:~:text=Professor%20Frank%20Leferink%20of%20the,in%20every%20household%20by%202020.
Well not really because I guarantee your bills will go up due to the fact olde mechanical meters could not truly measure usage of devices that contain motors like watching machines etc. modern smart meters can. Your bills will only go up and not down with a smart meter!
I have old RCA 900mhz wireless headphones i use at work. The smart meter interference is annoying. Its sounds like eerrr areare eerrr areare eerrr areare.
dude ur videos are getting really good. soon ur gunna be big and have too many comments to read. thx for replying to all mine so far. doing gods work
Road tripping to Vegas for DEFCON right now, but live reading all them and replying. The fun of putting stuff out there is the people I meet along the way!