I Won the Prem with a 4-4-2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2023
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Football Manager 2023 has been out for 10 months so it’s finally time to talk about what was my favorite tactic in the game. We had a wonderful journey with Taunton Town and were able to use the archaic 4-4-2 to best the high-flying tactics of the world’s best teams and managers. This is a guide so you can use it too.
Much Love,
FM Senpai
Check out the tactic ► steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
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Sean dyche will be proud
Literally came here to say with Everton picking up Beto next to DCL up top, I have a feeling we’re going to see the mediocre version of his FM game irl
The dyche long ball works most of the time atleast tho
@@jmkiser33he won't pick both up top though for a reasons
1. DCL can't play enough games, he'll end up injured
2. In real life it won't work, well not with Everton's players we'd just get overrun in midfield and concede to many goals
3. Because of point 2 the strikers would never get the ball and be out of the game
Big Sam called. He wants his tactics back.
I am Sean dyche son, my dad liked this video.
4-4-2 is great, you just have to move the two CM to DM when facing formations with AMs.
Yeah a DM and a Segundo Volante worked well for me
DM on Su or De?
DM-DE plus DLP-DE@@davidadenusi
@@MrJorge3010 facts but I play a dm and a Bwm on surport sometimes theirfore he will cover the space which the dm can’t
Is 4-2-2 good for a counter team or for a team playing long balls to the strikers?
442 has always been the tactic I go to when nothing else is working. It usually lets me grind out results without ever dominating games.
Holy shit this was the most helpful tactical video I think I've ever seen, so well explained and helped me (a new fm player) understand the tactics so much better than I ever have before.
I dominated England with my feared Brexit-442-CrossingFC tactic as Burnley. Onuachu, Weghorst and Fer Nino had 5 golden boots between them, and Lissandro Martinez was banished back to Argentina
Love me some of that
Tactic link??
Tactic link??
@@kerrycrystal3892 I've played this style for a few years but the one I used for Burnley doesn't really work in FM24, so I updated it for this years game in my Fulham save. I leave set pieces to my set piece coach but I'd recommend using long throws with 2 ogres receiving. The philosophy only works with the right recruitment.
Prioritize work rate everywhere, but especially in the midfield. You need Kostic types out wide in the winger roles, so look for quick, capable dribblers who can cross. They don't have to fit that mold perfectly though, I've had success using Ryan Gauld on the left with Adama Traore on the right. Your DMs exist only to win the ball back and to pass to the wingers. Your full backs matter a lot also, but you can work different types in and it'll work.
I'm in the UCL despite that my squad shouldn't be good enough. The squad comparison screen emphasized that we are a decent to good premier league side with the best Strength, Jumping Reach, Crossing, Heading and Bravery in the league.
i.imgur.com/P7ENeCE.jpg
we.tl/t-NY2bu1DSEy
Get JWP if you can, but strikers are the most important role to fill. Scout Selke, Ajorque, Lucca, Banza, Weghorst, Scamacca and Emegha
This have to be one of the best videos i have watched in a long time. Excellent description of the thoughts behind the tactic.
Does Zealand ever do a video breaking down what each formation means and which are best for certain kinds of teams? I just pre-ordered FM 24 and my enthusiasm to rebuild my favorite teams is countered only by the harsh realization that I have no idea what I’m doing and my knowledge of football tactics is frustratingly limited lol
EDIT: Found The FM Guide for Beginners, nvm…
Forget preordering a digital copy u did pre order a game that is on game pass. You fully deserve all the stress and lost time playing fm
you could also check out TIFO and the athletic tactics pod, the managers seat, RDF Tactics, i think they have gone and talked about different formations and styles.
Here is my two cents.
343 or 5 2 3, you have width and an extra defender, good against 44 2 or 4 2 3 1.
532 is a solid defensive formation but relies on wingbacks on attack to create enough attacking numbers in the defensive zones, or you need to have double mezzela or CM_A to provide enough support to the forwards. Can suffer against teams that have a wing focus as the CM's need to press the fullbacks.
442 or 4 2 4, lots of potential wing combinations and favors getting the ball wide. issue against 433 or 4231 is the either deep or advanced playmakers who get between the lines, need to close them down. good against the 352 or 343.
433 is the meta for most coaches and teams as it offers alot of flexibility and can become a 451 in defensive situations.
451 as a base provides a good defensive block and can be devastating on the counter
4231 is pretty typical from the Ai as a geggenpress out of this formation covers alot of the intitial buildup opportunities of the opposition but if the first press line is beaten can be exposed by deep lying forwards and attacking midfilders behind the cm's. Some choose DM's to protect against this, but you need to have players linking defense and attack or the attackers can become isolated.
Now Inverted fullbacks and forwards on support can alter the mechanics of an attacking unit so that they can defend in say a 4 4 2 but become a 31231 if you have a IWB_D cb cb ; dm_s ; ap_s, wb_s; W_a, dlf_s, IW_A; AF
@pika--pika You will never own a game that's on game pass. Stop paying for game pass and you lose access to that game and all of your saves forever, unless you get game pass again.
Also, game pass is for Xbox. Why presume everybody is on Xbox? especially when the console version of FM isn't nearly as good.
You seriously need to chill out man
@@zebraslegendyt Um, save files are to the game, not where you bought the game. Even if you delete the game, the save file will still be there somewhere. So yeah, you could 100% stop paying for gamepass, buy the game, then move the save file.
@thatissomeBS So then you've paid for gamepass AND the game?
My point was if you don't have access to the game you don't have access to your save either, not that you can never have it back.
Really liked this video, hopefully it could be a kind of mini series with the main staples of tactics, like a 5 of the back comparison of using wingers or 2 strikers and a number 10.
This reminds me of RDF and his Man Utd 2007/08 tactics!! Z has developed his own Fergie-style 442 and that says a lot doesn't it?! Awesome insights as always Z, much love from the UK
I’m currently playing 3 strikers, that’s where the real fun happens
This is the best video about tactic that i've ever seen. I was playing a 4231 geggenpress with Hambuerger SV in FM 20, in one match i was strugglin to make clear chances of goal, and than at de 75's i change for this 442, and bang, 3-0. I'm now applying that same logic of positioning to the 4231.
Great video Zealand, love this! The way you see and explain things shows how much FM has thought you about football itself.
been using 4312 with two sogundo volantes on attack. My favourite tactic ive used in a while! two striker formations are great on fm23
3 DMs and CM or AM ?
I used this tactic a lot on older FMs, and was quite successful. I don't think Z makes enough out of the individual player attributes in this video, though. It changed the game for me to change my deeper-lying midfielder from a skillful technician to a physical workhorse. Tall wingers playing at IF are super powerful too with early crosses switched on.
Might be the best intro in TH-cam history
Super useful video, thank you. Entertaining to watch as well. Please do more of these tactical breakdowns with examples from your games and deep explanation! Some quality content.
What were the player's stats like for this tactic? For example, I'd be curious how many goal contributions the left winger on support got, and if the goals mainly came from the two strikers and the right-sided inverted winger on attack.
what a fantastic vid with great tactical insight. love that your vids are always really easy to understand and have some sort of veiled aknowledgement that its a game at the end of the day.
My most recent tactic that I used was 3-1-2-3-1, or 3-4-3.
I used three CBs (BPD), DM (DLP), CMs (BBM, RPM), AMs (IF, AP, IF) and a CF.
It was used alongside my Total Football philosophy and did wonders for my team. Over 100 GD in a very competitive Eredivisie for multiple seasons. (Average possession of 65% or so too)
My eventual replacement changed the formation immediately and was stuck with a goal difference of 50, even with most of the same players in tact. Just to put it into perspective.
Although my Fulham team continued our 10 match winless run when I added this tactic (players not good enough and badly out of form), we were able to grind out a few draws and only lost 1-0 to top of the league Man Utd. It played an important role in giving my main tactic some breathing room from the game AI, thus enabling me to reintroduce my 4-3-3. Thanks Z, it worked exactly as you said it would!
The way I've setup my 4-4-2 it's only a 4-4-2 while defending.
On attack one of the forwards drops off enough to turn it into a 4-2-3-1 (I have him on False9 or DLF Support). AI has massive difficulty handling when you "shapeshift" your tactics like that.
It's why my 5-2-3 works so well because due to the Libero it's actually a 4-3-3 DM Wide on attack.
How do you shift to a different formation between attack and defend phases?
@@johnyprigioni859 through roles and duties
I’ve been using a 4-4-2 in FM23. I kind of turned mine inside out by using Wide Midfielders on the wings with Inverted Fullbacks and Centre Mids on Attack in the middle.
Amazing tactic video ! I also love 4-4-2 but in diamond shape ! Tweaking tactics is why i love FM!
I'm killing the Bundesliga with my 442 Kaiserslautern save, I play similar to Brighton, low depth, drop off, short passing, fast tempo and with two DM's + 2x CF on support. You need a backline and DM's with high decisions and concentration+ passing stats. Absolutely killing them, got into Quarter Finals with Kaiserslautern!
Share your full tactic bro. Sounds intriguing and what I like 👀
One thing id like to see in future FMs is that you can create formations for whether you are out of possession or in possession. I know the player roles effectively does this, but its imperfect.
For example you could aim for a 2-2-1-5 in possession and 4-4-2 in defence.
Championship Manager used to do this. Imagine that. The feature was removed in favor of the new 3D match engine / roles.
2-2-1-5 in possession and 4-4-2 in defence? I have one I'm currently using, here it is(from left to right and bottom to top):
GK -> SK(De)
4 -> CWB(At) - CD(De) - CD(De) - IWB(De)
4 -> WP(Su) - CM(De) - RPM(Su) - W(At)
2 -> AF(At) - DLF(Su)
That was a brilliant breakdown.
I've been using a 442 this year and it's just fun and effective.
For my Palace save i did:
442 attacking
41212 (wide mid fielders as inverted wingers dm and am) balanced
and 442 (2 dms anchor and dlp) caution
I independently arrived at the same tactic, but since my CMs are just way too good offensively, I couldn't let them hang back. So I have a CM on defend next to a MEZ on attack (instead of the DLP) and use an IWB on the side with the MEZ. I can't not have a midfielder running late into the box
I like to use a 5-2-2-1 with a large and strong Target man in Support and two second strikers with pace and finishing, could be another option if you don't want to use the 4-4-2
442 is a surprise in the FM23 and a very, very pleasant surprise. It being to be my go to when I want go full YOLO and go for goals and goals quickly. 2-0 down, 1-0 winning and I want to finish off. And always delivering. Constantly delivering and savin' my a** when I need. It is beautiful.
Absolutely love these Madden type play breakdowns. ❤
How is this madden type? Lmao
@@alexsmith6322 all the play art on the screen as he explains whats going on. 💛
I think double strikers is really underated this year and also wide midfielders as well.
I feel like fullbacks pushing forward just isnt as good and leaves the flanks exposed alot so I prefer having my fullbacks on defend/support mostly anyways with a more attacking midfield/wing to do the attacking duties
Finally, someone understands my formation... been away from FM but I like it so much zeeland , thanks
you should try using inverted wing back and winger combination, if you have a wingback like Zinchenko type, this way you can change the CM to attack mode, as the inverted wing back will cover the mid as the DMF type, this will change your offensive to be more like 3-5-2, the way Man City play.
I've been using a 3 at the back with two defensive wingers on support and it works well. Need a good athletic for it to work
I created my own 442 tactic from scratch on my Brighton save and it was pleasingly similar to this tactic
I'm playing a 4-4-2 with Sevilla rn, but my RW is an AMR so I play a DM on that side to provide better cover. Better GD in the league, currently 3rd in February just behind Barca and RM who only lost against me (won previous year although going with a diamond midfield).
I score way more goal but I do have some difficulty facing counters or good 3-men midfields.
Was not a fan of 442 in the FM07 days, so did 4222 wide, havent used it in 23 tho coz i fell in love with 4321 from FM10
I'm playing 3 upfront and 2 centre mids on attack and two fbs on defend with a support DMC. Works well but occasionally the full back still goes forward and gets caught out
14:35 - The DM may well be the deepest defender but it's still a fine example of the left hand DC being in match engine hell rather than a display of match tactics. His movement is sensationally broken.
I use a similar tactic but with 5 3 2. Its actually more of a 3 5 2 though..I have good passing 3 at the back. 2 pushed forward wingbacks..1 holding midfielder, two centre midfielders with one on attack, the other can be a role of your choice..And the two strikers one on advanced striker..Oh and i play slightly narrow..And i don't play into space. I also play a high back line but a standard attacking line
Is it okay to say that I FRICKIN LOVE YOU ZEALAND ❤️❤️❤️ I absolutely love your videos!
If you want to win in fm then you need to pull off a full court press with your wingbacks staying back at all times to prevent counterattack. Pushing play as fare as you can on the opponents half off the court. Ball playing defenders on stopper act as extra midfielders pushing the play forward. (notice you need decent defenders with some speed to pull it off) On the midfield a box to box works well on support. Think of Holland when they use to play a full press system. You will destoy any team you go up against. They have nerfed wingback a bit in this years fm but its will super effective. Fm rewards attacking plays and punish you for making defensive plays.
Looks like a Rock Paper Scissor kinda thing.
Everyone used to play 442, then everyone was building 442-Counters... then nobody played 442 anymore, and everyone was looking to counter the 442-Counters.
And now there's nobody around countering the 442.
Meanwhile, since the 442 was forgotten, player quality has improved a lot, due to skill inflation.
Thus it's possible that 442 played with the best of the best, may be stronger than it ever was.
Love it!
nodding ... 4-2-3-1 is just an evolution of 442, where the wingers pushed up further and the number 10 dropping deep. Heck, Alex Ferguson used a 4-4-1-1 at some point in real life. But, yeah ... just variations of 4-4-2 to me. Will always remember the technical report after 1998 where France won the world cup. The Zidane-Makalele pivot dissected in detailed. The spine, so to speak.
This was practically my FM22 tactic except I threw the right midfielder further forward as a wide target man
Played both full backs on support
Left midfield on Winger(support) or a wide playmaker against lesser teams
Lots of crosses to the back stick to my all time favourite regen, Edivaldo Dos Santos 6ft4 Brazilian with a killer pony tail. 5 ballon dors , countless goals and trophies
He could play anywhere , but mainly used as a wide target man, also played up front and centre midfield
My favourite stats of his at peak
19 heading
19 strength
18 passing
17 vision
18 finishing
20 composure
The only thing that let him down was a lowly 13 dribbling
Love the shirt!! Beerschot!! 💜
@zealand this video is awesome. It's very detailed yet understandable and well presented. I hope your make more videos like this in the future
It’s nice to he’s using Taunton town. Which is my local team
Love the tactic, working a treat for me BUT . . . Coming up against teams playing that 4-2-3-1, even if im better than them, im only getting a draw at best and getting beat a fair amount of times. If i set the lines at low block and low defensive line, i just invite a stack of pressure which they usually get 1-2 goals from eventually, but leaving it as high line, high press, im left wide open which the opposition seem to use that space very well, like i say, even if im alot better than the opposition.
4-4-2 is under-rated, I used it to revive my season when I was losing games, it helped me to finish in the top half of the laliga with granada
Lovely Tshirt Zealand!
I'll use the 4-4-2 in the next years fm as I got so familiar to using the 4-3-3 this year
Is it necessary to change all the instructions for the opponent every time, depending on the tactics, when the computer changes them during the match (and this can be many times)
As a Leicester fan, winning the prem with a 4-4-2 with an inverted winger sounds familiar..
And you mentioned Kante too 😅
Love the video while I can not use a 442 flat like in this video. I was wondering if you would make a video on your 442 diamond tactic that has saved my save in Greece.
I just love the 442, it is a part of how I think football
I'm trying this out with a lower league side, what would you suggest as a switch for complete forward (as nobody lower league can do it), PF attack? DLP attack? TF attack?
hi Zealand can you do a video dedicated to scoring goals against teams that sit deep and narrow? explore a variety of options using a wide 433, wide 4231, 532 and 442 narrow diamond.
i use a 433 possession based tactic on positive mentality with fairly narrow width that got me to the playoffs last season and we narrowly missed the W so this season every team is parking the bus and we're not having as much fun. i know i have the quality in my side to beat anyone in this league but i'm having trouble breaking through the parked bus. i know i need to explore wider width and draw defenders out but even when i do, my guys don't cross the ball and we end up with long shots and loads of shots off target. i use a combination of poacher, IW(s) and IF(s), my midfield is a RPM, CM(A), BWM in DM, my full backs are FB(A) and WB(S). last season both my poachers scored 18 goals but now they can't hit a barn door and my wide two are struggling to make an impact. i'm not pressing high or counter pressing, just a mid block, and i'm using play out of defence and work ball into box. i guess i should turn those off and let the opposition have the ball more so we can hit them on transitions.
i only use RPM for offensive tactics that give a fuck about posession because its a vertical playmaker, hes dribbling and not looking for posession
One of the main reasons why this formation works, at least for my FM23 saves, because it usually counters the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 formation that most BPL teams use.
having world class players helps lol, i signed bellingham and moukoko to braga and won the ucl 3 season in a row, with a bunch of ghanaians cos i was managing the national team.
I had trash wingers so I went for a 4-4-2 narrow diamond, it also works, as long as they sit wide and your number 10 is your most talented player
I know the games aren't related whatsoever, but this is exactly the tactic I use playing fifa, and I love watching teams irl using this mobile 442
This (points to video) is great.
But I like this. (points to 3 central defenders)
I play 4-4-2 with 2ball playing CB in defense, inverted wing backs in support, 2 attacking wingers, 1Deep lying playmker and a B2B both in support and 2 advanced forwards. It works wonders
Ive tried 4-4-2 but it didnt give me much success, playing a 4-2-2-2 however with one midfielder pushed higher up did exactly what I wanted
what role is your DM and CM?
Basically, Ferguson's United. Cool!
Interesting I've been using a very similar tactic aside from up front. Im struggling but I do have a squad that's barely league 2 quality and my board wants me to get promoted from league one so maybe not thr tactics fault
No player instructions? That's even more impressive
Do you think this would be just as effective on the older FMs like 21, or is it exploiting the 23 ME?
I used to use 4-4-2 regularly in FM19 and older. Zealand was spot on with the midfield pairing imo - one defensive-minded and the other being a box-to-box (but not too attacking because they need to help defend). Signing well-rounded midfielders is important. Zealand's Roquero had 19 Positioning and great defensive attributes and Stamina while also having top Vision/Passing/First Touch/Composure/Decisions. A player like that is helping both in attack and defense and makes up for the midfield being outnumbered.
Since complete forward is a very demanding task that not everyone can do. Would you suggest another role as an alternative in the front?
Deep lying forward
This is on steam, but what about game pass users? Do you have the tactic for download on a universal medium somewhere for all to enjoy?
Mate i just saw Ben Beechey score 2 goals vs Swansea City to move to the round of 16 of the FA cup, im clearly not caught up on the storyline yet
4-2-3-1 is just 4-4-2 in disguise, tho'. :D
(Kind of :P )
Semi-related: What is going to be interesting to see going forward, is to see if FM will be able to handle the raising(?) popularity in ultra-fluid, relationship based game approaches we are starting to see pop up here and there. :D
In LLM saves I can replace Complete Forward for what function?
4-4-2 with inverted fullback is OP as hell
have you already decided the save for fm 24?
4-4-2 wing play is over powered. guarantees outscoring opponents
From a fan of the masters of the 4-4-2 Burnley, well in
When I have the game from Epic Games can I still download or sub the tactic from steam workshop?
none of this ticky tocky gagginpressin' in 'ere, four four fooken two mate that's all ya need lad
i used the same 4-4-2 as this one before only i have cuadrado as my defensive winger. Took my ages to fill in the defensve winger roles/“
I would love more videos going into opposition instructions. I feel like its the least explained part of the game. My ass-man constantly tells me to close down and tight mark like every attacking player, even though the in-game tips even tell you you shouldnt do this
In FM24 would you make the FB into an IFB?
i have noticed your CM on Support has no player instructions is this part of the tactic ?
I can't abandon the CM on attack. The third man run off of the two strikers is an addiction.
He’s open every single time too. It’s hard not to do it
He's hard to drop also because when I go long, and I do go long, the more people there are close to the strikers who head it down, the higher the odds are we get the second ball. Otherwise each striker has only one real option - the winger on his side. I want the ball to move fast. I've got no time for overlaps on the wings to finish. I want the wingers darting clear past their fullback and the strikers having immediate multiple options to continue the attack. I'm not looking to control it and patiently knock it around with only two midfielders. I don't want to go man to man. If they have 3 people tracking back, I want 4 making it impossible to stop the transition before a shot is made. That's the appeal of the 4-4-2 to me. Fast transition and options down all 4 vertical lines during. The ball only moves forward.
Now against 3 CBs, it's a bit of a different story.@@alexsmith6322
Your fm24 looks completely different than mine
Often the AI likes to use a 3412 with 2 dm’s and wings backs. How would you set it up against that?
This is just Manchester City 23/24 with the absence of KDB. Gvardiol the wide CB/Defensive FB (Ake and Akanji can do that role to) then the Full Back support is Kyle Walker which has made him even better somehow and Sometimes even Inverting which we were told he couldn’t do. Centre backs are ball players because they’re good enough (Dias/Stones/Gvardiol/Ake/Akanji). Our DLP is of course Rodri, i think it does him a disservice just calling him a DM he’s a complete Midfielder. Then our Support Centre Mids are Kovacic/Bernardo/Nunes. These guys use there dribbling and close control to basically make a mockery of opposing teams press. The Inverted Winger gets to come inside because of Walkers hard work, they basically plays as a 10 all game because we have the ball so much is Foden (Newcastle @ home) and on Occasions Bernardo. Our other winger who is mostly isolated against his full back and then gets doubled up on, freeing our dangermen, these guys, on the Left most likely are Doku and Grealish. Doku against West Ham was unreal in this role. Grealish is more of the Defensive Winger you was talking about but also not really (flexibility you see). Then our two strikers, Big man/Little Man, Haaland and Alvarez with Alvarez playing as sort of a Raumdeuter occupying space left by Haaland being overmarked by opposition CB’s or creating space for Haaland with clever movement KDB played this role a bit towards the end of last season e.g Arsenal @ home. The 4/4/2 along with the ‘big man/little man’ is coming back, Even Brighton play it.
I won the champions league and the seria a with a 4-3-3 but with 3 forwards Nzola Piccoli and Lucca. You should tryit some time
So what your saying is, “The 4-4-2 is not dead. In fact, it’s extremely effective. You just need some of the best players in the world to make it work out for you.” 😅
Unai Emery called he wants his tactic back
The mentality is that positive regardless of the low or High line?
Im also playing 442 this season
But with rpm and B2B what you think
I have FM over Epic games (I also have steam but not FM23 on it)
Any idea how to download this tactic? Thank you in advance.
Sean Dyche should see this
Personally, a 4-4-1-1 fan. Played FM20 blind after FM06, and hated how my old beloved 4312 got overrun ... remembered Alex's Ferguson's 4-4-1-1, set it up with a low-block to counter-the-counter, and ... 30+ seasons have gone. I like it enough to have never changed it. Recently won a match 8-0, with 30+% possession. Seriously. 😅
Let the AI eventually over-react to the half-season syndrome, and then, just keep trusting your scouts and coach reports. At the highest level, the star ratings are accurate. Just have the common sense to drop a player whose form is, well, dropping.
ahh my favourite formation
Can this be put on fm base don't have steam?
Just to point out... there's a reason Sir Alex was so successful in the late 90's and early 2000's using a 4-4-2 with a Keane / Scholes playing BWM / BBM respectively in midfield... 🤣🤣