@@ghouli16 I certainly released a video that I believed was true, but after talking to EBFM and FM Korea it became clear something wasn't adding up. I've cleared it up with both of them and look forward to making videos with EBFM in the future.
@@mustafabahar4904 Just because one person's presentation skills are not to your liking, it does not mean that another person is given the right to presentation.
I once found a 196 potential wunderkind when I already secured promotion into the 4th league of England. The board wanted to sell him every step of the way, but I fought tooth and nails and he played virtually every game for me including when we reached the Premier League. There will never be another like him.
@@DrZaius3141 I also have a player like this, my CB, I started on the 3rd division in England and he was in my youth intake, at 16 he already had 15 jumping reach and 16 tackling, 4 seasons later in the premier league he's a beast and plays in all my matches
In FM22 I was making a San Marino League save and, out of nowhere, PSG wanted to sign a 19-year-old newgen I got in my second intake. Baffled as to why they'd go after someone that wasn't even a regular starter on a semi-pro team... I downloaded FMRTE after selling him, and it turned out he had over 180 PA. (Spoilers: He never reached it)
I had noticed that players developed more in non-loaded leagues, but i honestly thought i was just imagining it and reinforcing it with confirmation bias. Nice to have it confirmed.
The 40+ matches causing worse develepment is logical cause those players are exhausted much more often, take slower to recover and then their training automatically gets set to a lower training intensity.
like so many young brazilians in real life,start playing first team football at 16 and they peak early twenties and downhill from there,rooney was a wee bit similar,starting in the prem at 16 and was pretty much done at 30ish,which makes sense as thats 14ish years at the top but most others play from 20ish to 34ish
Training facilities: I’ve found out that they actually make a big difference- but only at later stages of a players CA development (not talking about age) , for example I had a player with PA 180. His development stagnated when he reached a CA of 140. But when my facilities got upgraded he suddenly was able to improve his CA again. Similar examples happened now several times to me
Glad to see this video back up and all the issues moved on. I’m looking forward to the collaborations in the future with you and Max. You handled the situation very professionally Zealand. All the respect to you
I think Evidence Based Football Manager came to exactly the same conclusions on his channel. There's some weird stuff going on under the hood in the game, like inactive leagues being better for loans.
Try upping the detail level on all the leagues you have loaded. If you loan a player to the Championship, then you should make the championship more detailed
i'd imagine that's because they have less players and less competition? Or maybe the game simulates inactive leagues differently/more kindly than active leagues? I generally find loan to the highest league possible but only under roles like important player to ensure game time.
@@Writeous0nethis has def to do with it, ive loaned some players put to apoel in my save and noticed that the players i loaned out to them always had an increased player rating (always >7.50 average) and they also played a lot of friendly games
Evidence Based Football Manager is freaking awesome -- I haven't watched his videos on it but if our research found a lot of the same stuff then that makes me feel really good about our research lol
even if winning or losing doesn't matter for development, being on a winning squad means better locker atmosphere. Which is usually easier to get higher training ratings with for the whole team. Winning usually helps for everything :D
Yes, the thing for me is I've never known what to do with bad personalities. I understand that its preferable to have a good HOYD in the first place but when someone comes through with lots of potential, I've never known to leave them in the youth team or if it was more important to get them mentored early? This really helped a lot!
One thing about putting lots of youth players in your senior team, your coaching workload will start to move up. Not sure the impact of coach training workload on player dev. Based on Zs section about facilities and workload, assuming it's not too detrimental
wish someone could actually test this out because i’ve been facing the same issue, i’ve had the u23’s coach give a hand on senior team training and asked for more coaches but still it must hinder they players development if the coaches are being overworked
I love the Vitoria De Guimaraes kit (i'm portuguese and recognised it immediatly) i don't usually see people where kits from portugal other than the big 3 and braga. Love the video too!
@8:40 something I read a couple years back is and have noticed, never make a sub after 75 minute's as they won't get a match rating. The match rating helps the player development
Love this, Z. Loads of useful tidbits in here. Would love to see you do a deep dive into the data hub and interpreting analyst feedback. Seems to be the main area I find tough to get to grips with.
Amazing video with some hard work done behind the scenes - huge credit to the team that did the experiments. This has cleared up some questions and misconceptions I have, even as an FM veteran who has thousands of hours in the game. Makes me want to start a new save (with less leagues loaded) and develop some wonderkids!
Oh man, thanks for the experiment! Been playing FM since 2006 and the question of how to better develop youth players (not just wonderkids) always pops up every now and then but I never figured it out entirely. Makes me want to start a new save now!
The only question I've got is if you're an elite team in the EPL, you're playing about 60 matches a season, which obviously leads to a lot of non-training days where you're either playing a game or travelling/recovery all of that kind of stuff. If you're putting your wonderkids in for senior training, does that loss of training matter, given that there are usually fewer match days in the U21/U18 squads? You're also probably doing more match focussed training than development focussed training too. But if all of that is irrelevant, then great news, I guess!
Didn't watch this when it came out cause the title says it's about wonderkids. As lower league manager, I hardly ever see a wonderkid. Turns out the video is about general player development and actually super interesting.
Respect to Z and EBFM on how this was handled. So much rubbish on the interwebs these days that this was very refreshing. Both of you gained a lot of respect from me in the way it was handled. Not that my respect means too much but still it is always important to acknowledge the good and not just the bad.
The amount of matches makes sense because if youre playing 40+ matches every year youre likely to have points in the season where you are fatigued and end up on lower intensity of training(if you have training intensity set automatically)
This is the most informative FM video I have ever watched, so much in this, wonderfully researched and presented in a manner even I can understand. Great job Zealand ! :)
So basically, have them on the senior team for 21-30 matches, or make them available for youth teams. Development till 26, bigger improvements can indicate bigger PA
I had 2 wonderkids come through with Stoke this season so it's given me an ample opportunity to explore the youth system and whats best. For the past 2 seasons I've put kids into the first team and avaialable for U21s then put them in the first team when Im winning by more than 2 at HT or then at the latest from the hour onwards. has worked tremendously. I've got a 24 year old whos scored 215 league goals so far and 30 for England, and a 23 year old right winger who has 130 million valuation and has aslo scored 25 times for England
I always have every player at my club training with the first team, and just make them available for the U21's. The ones I'm not gonna use I put on the loan list - if I know they wont be good enough I loan them out for a few years then sell them for profit - the good youngsters, I make sure I give them plenty of playing time. Every year, I go through the youth intake and release every player with a bad personality, keep the good ones, even if their potential star rating is low - someone always wants to buy them after a couple of loans.
6:20 is about burnout. It’s been said for years that young players who play all the time suffer from burnout. It’s why many managers ease young players in the team over a few seasons.
Having B team at second tier league competitions in top countries in football, strong coaches, great training schedules will strongly developed your wonderkids, and ofcourse your B team will help you to get higher chances of wonderkids at next youth intake
Interesting information. Applied your concepts to my current FM22 save, as my last 3 youth intakes have been solid, but the respective CA's of the players is extremely low: 1.) Very Good Youth Intake: Had 5-6 players in the 120-150 PA range, but all had CA's in the 40-70 range 2.) Poor Youth Intake: Definitely poor, as only 2 players were worth signing, even at SkyBet League 2 level. (heck, they weren't even Tier 7 level of potential!) However, one was a wonderkid, a Surinamese midfielder with with a 169 PA, but only 70 PA. Luckily he was only 15. 3.) Good Youth Intake: 4-5 players with PA's in the 120-150 range, but all had 40-70 CA's Since watching your video, and implementing your findings, I've been able to play about 4 weeks worth of games. That Surinamese wonderkid has improved in 23 attributes, and risen from a low 70's CA to a 97 CA. He's only 17. The results are beyond expectations!! That's the type of improvement one would expect over a full season, not after just one month of games. Even managed to put him into 3 games (Team is currently in SkyBet Championship), and despite the low CA, he has held his own (6.97 game rating), which has probably contributed to the meteoric rise in just one month. All the other players have improved as well - based on the coaching staff's training reports, but again, as your video stated, players with the higher PA will see quicker gains in CA - and that is exactly what is happening. Now, it's just a matter of signing all these kids to incentive laden, long term contracts, hopefully they reach close to potential in the next 2-3 seasons, to help my team reach the Premier League promised land.
@@livwake Yeah, played really well and won me 2 chanpions leagues but I stopped playing after the second one. He didnt make it to 200 current ability but if I continued he probably would. Also won a shitload of individual awards
Great video Z! In general, is it better to keep a wonderkid in the 18-20 age bracket who isn’t good enough yet for the first team in the first team squad and make him available for youth team matches, or is it better to loan him out? From what I understood, loaning out still seems to be better as they are getting match experience in a higher reputation senior league than from just playing youth team matches.
He said loans and senior team experiences make no difference for the development. Plus he said training + matches are better than training + no matches. That means loans are gonna be better for most of the time.
Loans are better if league rep better than your reserve teams league rep. Also, only when a regular starter or better. If it's squad player it won't squeeze that little extra growth you can squeeze without a loan, because you could simply select him as a starter anytime you want.
@@needfoolthings fm really needs to change this. a lot of players are still developing at 20. having a rooney or haaland that's fit and ready for top flight at 18 is rare
Fantastic Video. I’ve been playing FM since CM92. The time, passion and attention to detail, along with your captive personality has taken the FM playing community to a new level. You’ve also created a generation of armchair managers who on their own clubs Facebook fan pages are arguing: “Why he playing in goal? He’s playing him out of position, he’s got such good vision and passing and he has an ability to get forward in wide areas. If it was me, it train him as a mezzala.” 😂
Not sure if you worked with him, Z, but I know that the random Agility focus boost at older ages was originally found by Evidence-Based Football Mananger, so I just wanna shout him and the other small creators who also do this kind of breakdown work out somewhere, and hopefully direct a couple eyes their way :)
@@MaverickRenegade54 I think it's fair to assume that these tests were done independently of any of EBFM's work, although I wish I knew, because this would give us an even more complete data set.
Natural Fitness doesn't affect the rate of decline, but it influences WHEN a player starts to decline. A player with 18 NF may show first signs of decline at age 33, while a 14 NF may start at 31.
We still need to conclusively know at what point the increased growth from being in the senior squad outweighs the missed training from playing games for the reserves though. Do we need to limit them to less than the previous sweet spot of 20-30 games?
My guess on the non playable league is that most of those teams dont have enough players to the first and subs squad. So they end up playing more... thats something that I use to look up to when loaning
Thats incredible work While see the video, sometimes i had a question or wanted make info, and then my boy come with the answer /info, time after time after time I don't believe FM didn't try to work with you already
I've been focusing a lot more on developing my own youth players in FM23, more than previous games. I've got 6 kids in my first team who came through my intake. I've got a few more cooking up in my youth team...
More research questions: What is de influence of national team games, both youth and senior, on development? All things are tested indivually here. Are there any hidden mulitplier effect if you combine certain things? If I have a team that is busy on 3 fronts (league, CL and cup), so I have a lot of matchdays without training, is it stil better to put wonderkids who don't play in the senior squad? Even if I have a development training in the youth squad and more matchday focused training in the senior squad? Aaa, football manager, always so many questions.
A takeaway might be that that loans offer no value in player development... but what about consistency!!! I was always of the understanding matches was the only way to boost that key attribute.
*Please* do a colab with Evidence Based Football Manager! Even an interview with him on your shared scientific approach to understanding the game and/or how to come up with good experiments.
My third year in serie b ground out from serie d. Thanks Z my ass is on fire if we dont go up im canned. Hopefully i can get these youngsters up to cuff this preseason and bring us up
Amazing VITÓRIA DE GUIMARÃES SHIRT! Im an FC Porto hearted fan, but seeing a familiar shirt, and also a beautifull one, baffles me everytime! Lets go Portugal 🇵🇹
great video man keep the good work thank you so much, now you have to make one for the youth intake to clear how the facilities, head of youth and youth coaches affect the intake
is it better to leave youth players in the u18/21 team but include them in first team training or promote them to the first team and make them available for u18/u21 matches?
this, this is the question i needed answered… ‘cause i don’t wanna see 30+ players on my senior team sheet. you can just have the kids train with the seniors but idk if that would work out the same (yeah i know i basically added nothing to your question but i really need to know, lmk if you have come up with any solution)
@@HakeemTatia Ive just been adding my best prospects to senior team training and leaving them in the youth till they are 18 when i loan them and the youth i buy for profit i leave in the youth till they are 18 then loan them then sell once they are like 20-22 I dont know how good that is but get one or two players every year from the loans come into my first team which is a top 4 english club
When I loan my young players to LaLiga, they somehow develop way more even compare to other elite leagues like PL, Serie A, and Bundesliga. I thought it's because a lot of wonderkids speak Spanish, but even players from obscure countries develop better in Spain. Is it just me or do you guys have the same experience?
@@yeevolution I know, but LaLiga is much better than PL for me. Even LaLiga Smartbank is better than those elite leagues in my experience. Bundesliga is sometimes good, but loans to Serie A rarely worked at least on my saves.
Seems your team got the same results as Max from EvidenceBasedFootballMAnager, which is encouraging to see so we are sure taht all those results are the same with 2 different experiments :D
I mean, experiments are essentially the same. All results are the same which mean no methodological flaws. The only thing different is double intensity tryining, but I think Max tested that on FM22 so it's possible it changed with the latest version.
And also if they don't play competitive matches over most of the season they lose potential. In my save RM bought a wonderkid for $20m and played him 3 times (2 were non competitive) in 4 seasons. He had great stats and was eventually bought by Napoli and ripped up the serie A before being bought this season as a star player at Tottenham, but it isn't realistic that A) he wasn't played for 4 seasons despite obviously being one of the most promising players of his age, B) he would still be at the same potential despite playing 3 games in 4 years.
@@bananarama3624 I don't see why not playing should lower your potential. It may lower your stats, but the potential is how good you could potentially be in ideal circumstances. And that shouldn't change aside from some serious injury.
I disagree, I don't think potential should be dynamic at all. And definitely not based on performance. That would make the game too easy, and take a lot of what it makes it interesting. Like take for example when Zealand wanted to sell Thiago Nuss. He was a good player for the team. But he got offers for 2 million. That resulted in him having to deal with the drama of getting rid of Thiago Nuss and convincing him to leave. So Zealand can use the money to improve the team. If Dynamic Potential existed there would be no point in selling Nuss. He is playing well so he is going to develop and get better anyway. Dynamic potential is for games like FIFA because people just want to play with the players they like. FM is meant to simulate a manager experience.
Thanks, but I have a simple question. What is Current and potential Ability? Because it's not the sum of attributes. Is it the sum of attributes for the player's best role? How is it calculated?
Great research Zealand! Very useful and enlightening video. Greetings from Greece. P.S. It would be super awesome if you made a video on how should a nation be built, or at least how you think it should be done! P.S. #2 Up the peacocks!
Confusing wording on a couple things: 1. When you were talking about young players maxing out at 30 matches played, do you mean starts or total appearances? I figured it meant total appearances since you didn't specify starts, but then you started talking about subs, so I'm not sure what you meant by matches. 2. When talking about subs, you said they're better off not coming into the game after the 70th minute because they miss out on training. Do your bench players who don't get in the game still train on match day? If so, what training do they do, when there is none set? Great video, though!
in a previous video you said it was better to keep youngsters in the youth teams so they don't miss out on training when the senior team plays a game and now they should be in the senior team...
And that's the end result of someone trying to give better tips based on researched facts rather than opinion. The same is true for scientific research. We can only give tips as good as the facts and experience we have in front of us at that time.
The "sweet spot" of playing 20-30 matches a season is actuallly quite representative of the real world. Older players are more battle-hardened, while you run the risk of burning out a young talent with too much exercise. This is for instance why professional cycling teams rarely run young talents for more than 60 race days, while grizzled veterans might run 80 to 90 days a season.
Great info, thank you! Knew or felt (using the Force ofc) most of this already, but confirming it is brilliant. Big surprise though with the inactive league loans.. very curious.
One thing you never mentioned is whether the level of the opposition matters for a players development. For example, do players gain more from playing against Man City vs a league 2 team?
The research in this video is based on Evidence Based FM’s training simulations, you can follow them here: youtube.com/@ebfm
steve lied to you, now he is fired.
@kiloisnear I think Z lied too
@@ghouli16 I certainly released a video that I believed was true, but after talking to EBFM and FM Korea it became clear something wasn't adding up. I've cleared it up with both of them and look forward to making videos with EBFM in the future.
@@ZealandonYT EBFM needs to leave presentation to you Zealand. You've got the charms and fun 😏
Honestly, EBFM is a bit boring.
@@mustafabahar4904 Just because one person's presentation skills are not to your liking, it does not mean that another person is given the right to presentation.
Always wanted Zealand to tell me how to make kids
Your life is a waste of space.
AYOO PAUSE
Zealand can do anything
He probably make you a son in FM 😉
Uhhh...
The 27/28 y/o agility and balance boost is easy to explain. They've reached an age where they don't care what other people think and taken up yoga.
😭😭😭😭😭
I once found a 196 potential wunderkind when I already secured promotion into the 4th league of England. The board wanted to sell him every step of the way, but I fought tooth and nails and he played virtually every game for me including when we reached the Premier League. There will never be another like him.
How did you find him? Did you snipe him from a top team on a youth contract?
@@Josh7204 He was in my own youth intake.
That’s incredible, what side was this with?
@@DrZaius3141 I also have a player like this, my CB, I started on the 3rd division in England and he was in my youth intake, at 16 he already had 15 jumping reach and 16 tackling, 4 seasons later in the premier league he's a beast and plays in all my matches
In FM22 I was making a San Marino League save and, out of nowhere, PSG wanted to sign a 19-year-old newgen I got in my second intake. Baffled as to why they'd go after someone that wasn't even a regular starter on a semi-pro team... I downloaded FMRTE after selling him, and it turned out he had over 180 PA.
(Spoilers: He never reached it)
I had noticed that players developed more in non-loaded leagues, but i honestly thought i was just imagining it and reinforcing it with confirmation bias. Nice to have it confirmed.
because lower league got 50 match while super league 30+
The 40+ matches causing worse develepment is logical cause those players are exhausted much more often, take slower to recover and then their training automatically gets set to a lower training intensity.
Like Pedri irl
like so many young brazilians in real life,start playing first team football at 16 and they peak early twenties and downhill from there,rooney was a wee bit similar,starting in the prem at 16 and was pretty much done at 30ish,which makes sense as thats 14ish years at the top but most others play from 20ish to 34ish
Training facilities: I’ve found out that they actually make a big difference- but only at later stages of a players CA development (not talking about age) , for example I had a player with PA 180. His development stagnated when he reached a CA of 140. But when my facilities got upgraded he suddenly was able to improve his CA again. Similar examples happened now several times to me
Glad to see this video back up and all the issues moved on.
I’m looking forward to the collaborations in the future with you and Max.
You handled the situation very professionally Zealand. All the respect to you
what happened?
@@F08OWP He stole someone else's content
I think Evidence Based Football Manager came to exactly the same conclusions on his channel. There's some weird stuff going on under the hood in the game, like inactive leagues being better for loans.
Try upping the detail level on all the leagues you have loaded. If you loan a player to the Championship, then you should make the championship more detailed
i'd imagine that's because they have less players and less competition? Or maybe the game simulates inactive leagues differently/more kindly than active leagues? I generally find loan to the highest league possible but only under roles like important player to ensure game time.
@@Writeous0ne Evidence Based Football Manager said Inactive leagues don't have coaching staff. So probably the game assumes perfect coaching
@@Writeous0nethis has def to do with it, ive loaned some players put to apoel in my save and noticed that the players i loaned out to them always had an increased player rating (always >7.50 average) and they also played a lot of friendly games
Evidence Based Football Manager is freaking awesome -- I haven't watched his videos on it but if our research found a lot of the same stuff then that makes me feel really good about our research lol
even if winning or losing doesn't matter for development, being on a winning squad means better locker atmosphere. Which is usually easier to get higher training ratings with for the whole team. Winning usually helps for everything :D
Thanks man this is by far my favorite video of yours. You explained so many things I was wondering. Amazing job
Yes, the thing for me is I've never known what to do with bad personalities. I understand that its preferable to have a good HOYD in the first place but when someone comes through with lots of potential, I've never known to leave them in the youth team or if it was more important to get them mentored early? This really helped a lot!
My girlfriend said that she doesn't want any kids right now... any advice on this?
she doesnt want kids, she wants wonderkids
One thing about putting lots of youth players in your senior team, your coaching workload will start to move up. Not sure the impact of coach training workload on player dev. Based on Zs section about facilities and workload, assuming it's not too detrimental
wish someone could actually test this out because i’ve been facing the same issue, i’ve had the u23’s coach give a hand on senior team training and asked for more coaches but still it must hinder they players development if the coaches are being overworked
I love the Vitoria De Guimaraes kit (i'm portuguese and recognised it immediatly) i don't usually see people where kits from portugal other than the big 3 and braga.
Love the video too!
@8:40 something I read a couple years back is and have noticed, never make a sub after 75 minute's as they won't get a match rating. The match rating helps the player development
Rocking the Vitoria de Guimarães shirt , I see you Zealand 🔥🔥🔥
Love this, Z. Loads of useful tidbits in here.
Would love to see you do a deep dive into the data hub and interpreting analyst feedback. Seems to be the main area I find tough to get to grips with.
Amazing video with some hard work done behind the scenes - huge credit to the team that did the experiments. This has cleared up some questions and misconceptions I have, even as an FM veteran who has thousands of hours in the game. Makes me want to start a new save (with less leagues loaded) and develop some wonderkids!
Oh man, thanks for the experiment! Been playing FM since 2006 and the question of how to better develop youth players (not just wonderkids) always pops up every now and then but I never figured it out entirely. Makes me want to start a new save now!
This is one of the best and most helpful videos in the history of football manager
I’m literally sitting here on my laptop thinking “how do I go about making my own wonder kids” and pow. Zealand clutches uo
bruv is making full research papers on a game, respect
The only question I've got is if you're an elite team in the EPL, you're playing about 60 matches a season, which obviously leads to a lot of non-training days where you're either playing a game or travelling/recovery all of that kind of stuff. If you're putting your wonderkids in for senior training, does that loss of training matter, given that there are usually fewer match days in the U21/U18 squads? You're also probably doing more match focussed training than development focussed training too. But if all of that is irrelevant, then great news, I guess!
This was my question too... Maybe just by being in the top ranked league(s) that would make up for that training deficiency?
Insane level of depth, amazing video Z!
I normally don't comment on videos, but this video is extremely well done. Science in gaming done right. Thank you.
Been playing iterations of this game since 1992 and Zealand is STILL taking me to school…!!
Great vid, very insightful
The amount of work in this video is crazy, honor Zealand and the data analysis hoompaloompas 👌👌
Didn't watch this when it came out cause the title says it's about wonderkids. As lower league manager, I hardly ever see a wonderkid. Turns out the video is about general player development and actually super interesting.
This video has kinda confirmed how I lucked in to just developing players correctly by accident
Respect to Z and EBFM on how this was handled. So much rubbish on the interwebs these days that this was very refreshing. Both of you gained a lot of respect from me in the way it was handled. Not that my respect means too much but still it is always important to acknowledge the good and not just the bad.
The amount of matches makes sense because if youre playing 40+ matches every year youre likely to have points in the season where you are fatigued and end up on lower intensity of training(if you have training intensity set automatically)
This is the most informative FM video I have ever watched, so much in this, wonderfully researched and presented in a manner even I can understand. Great job Zealand ! :)
So basically, have them on the senior team for 21-30 matches, or make them available for youth teams. Development till 26, bigger improvements can indicate bigger PA
I had 2 wonderkids come through with Stoke this season so it's given me an ample opportunity to explore the youth system and whats best.
For the past 2 seasons I've put kids into the first team and avaialable for U21s then put them in the first team when Im winning by more than 2 at HT or then at the latest from the hour onwards. has worked tremendously. I've got a 24 year old whos scored 215 league goals so far and 30 for England, and a 23 year old right winger who has 130 million valuation and has aslo scored 25 times for England
Never thought that Zealand would wear a Vitoria jersey
Great Vitória shirt, my hometown club. When they combine our white or black with gold they are allways bangers
I always have every player at my club training with the first team, and just make them available for the U21's. The ones I'm not gonna use I put on the loan list - if I know they wont be good enough I loan them out for a few years then sell them for profit - the good youngsters, I make sure I give them plenty of playing time.
Every year, I go through the youth intake and release every player with a bad personality, keep the good ones, even if their potential star rating is low - someone always wants to buy them after a couple of loans.
6:20 is about burnout. It’s been said for years that young players who play all the time suffer from burnout. It’s why many managers ease young players in the team over a few seasons.
Nice shirt @Zealand, best regards from Portugal 😎✌️
All this time, I've been actively avoiding loans to inactive leagues because I thought it would slow development
How helpful is Zealand in all things regarding Football Manager? Yes.
Having B team at second tier league competitions in top countries in football, strong coaches, great training schedules will strongly developed your wonderkids, and ofcourse your B team will help you to get higher chances of wonderkids at next youth intake
Interesting information. Applied your concepts to my current FM22 save, as my last 3 youth intakes have been solid, but the respective CA's of the players is extremely low:
1.) Very Good Youth Intake: Had 5-6 players in the 120-150 PA range, but all had CA's in the 40-70 range
2.) Poor Youth Intake: Definitely poor, as only 2 players were worth signing, even at SkyBet League 2 level. (heck, they weren't even Tier 7 level of potential!) However, one was a wonderkid, a Surinamese midfielder with with a 169 PA, but only 70 PA. Luckily he was only 15.
3.) Good Youth Intake: 4-5 players with PA's in the 120-150 range, but all had 40-70 CA's
Since watching your video, and implementing your findings, I've been able to play about 4 weeks worth of games. That Surinamese wonderkid has improved in 23 attributes, and risen from a low 70's CA to a 97 CA. He's only 17.
The results are beyond expectations!! That's the type of improvement one would expect over a full season, not after just one month of games. Even managed to put him into 3 games (Team is currently in SkyBet Championship), and despite the low CA, he has held his own (6.97 game rating), which has probably contributed to the meteoric rise in just one month.
All the other players have improved as well - based on the coaching staff's training reports, but again, as your video stated, players with the higher PA will see quicker gains in CA - and that is exactly what is happening.
Now, it's just a matter of signing all these kids to incentive laden, long term contracts, hopefully they reach close to potential in the next 2-3 seasons, to help my team reach the Premier League promised land.
Athletic Club's youth intake on exceptional youth recruitment is just insane. Had 6 200PA youngsters in 2 years
Insane depth of research! Love you work
I had a 200 potencial ability wonderkid from my academy once, absolute baller
how can you see his potencial in numbers? i always wanted to see like that and not the stupid stars
@@gokupt4630 download a skin that shows hidden atributes
I have a Pakistani wonderkid with 199 PA right now.
Did they do anything in your team?
@@livwake Yeah, played really well and won me 2 chanpions leagues but I stopped playing after the second one. He didnt make it to 200 current ability but if I continued he probably would. Also won a shitload of individual awards
Great video Z! In general, is it better to keep a wonderkid in the 18-20 age bracket who isn’t good enough yet for the first team in the first team squad and make him available for youth team matches, or is it better to loan him out?
From what I understood, loaning out still seems to be better as they are getting match experience in a higher reputation senior league than from just playing youth team matches.
He said loans and senior team experiences make no difference for the development. Plus he said training + matches are better than training + no matches. That means loans are gonna be better for most of the time.
Loans are better if league rep better than your reserve teams league rep. Also, only when a regular starter or better. If it's squad player it won't squeeze that little extra growth you can squeeze without a loan, because you could simply select him as a starter anytime you want.
If a 20 year old isn't good enough to start a load of games for you, he isn't a wonderkid at all, but just a kid.
@@needfoolthings fm really needs to change this. a lot of players are still developing at 20. having a rooney or haaland that's fit and ready for top flight at 18 is rare
@@needfoolthings that highly depends on the team. A really good team might actually not have a spot for 135/200 20 year old wonderkid
Fantastic Video. I’ve been playing FM since CM92. The time, passion and attention to detail, along with your captive personality has taken the FM playing community to a new level.
You’ve also created a generation of armchair managers who on their own clubs Facebook fan pages are arguing:
“Why he playing in goal? He’s playing him out of position, he’s got such good vision and passing and he has an ability to get forward in wide areas.
If it was me, it train him as a mezzala.” 😂
Not sure if you worked with him, Z, but I know that the random Agility focus boost at older ages was originally found by Evidence-Based Football Mananger, so I just wanna shout him and the other small creators who also do this kind of breakdown work out somewhere, and hopefully direct a couple eyes their way :)
@@MaverickRenegade54 it is
@@MaverickRenegade54 I think it's fair to assume that these tests were done independently of any of EBFM's work, although I wish I knew, because this would give us an even more complete data set.
@@EnsoHenzoit isn't. Watch his latest vid
@@VodkaHellstorm they weren't, but that's due to lots of people not understanding how the service they used worked
This is a goldmine, Zealand. Thanks a lot! taking notes ✍
great to see the first king of Portugal on your chest!
Agility and balance for the older players is just putting on Ryan Giggs' yoga dvd for them
Did you test the effect on training when a player complains about his training focus Zealand?
FM 24 news when? // btw i have finished the video now. liked and saved to rewatch every time i play.
Natural Fitness doesn't affect the rate of decline, but it influences WHEN a player starts to decline. A player with 18 NF may show first signs of decline at age 33, while a 14 NF may start at 31.
Love the fact we have a new FM video, but why is there such loud music in the background? Makes it hard to concentrate on the info given
We still need to conclusively know at what point the increased growth from being in the senior squad outweighs the missed training from playing games for the reserves though.
Do we need to limit them to less than the previous sweet spot of 20-30 games?
My guess on the non playable league is that most of those teams dont have enough players to the first and subs squad. So they end up playing more... thats something that I use to look up to when loaning
Vitória de Guimarães shirt, well done.
Can already tell I’m going to come back to this video so much😂
Thats incredible work
While see the video, sometimes i had a question or wanted make info, and then my boy come with the answer /info, time after time after time
I don't believe FM didn't try to work with you already
I've been focusing a lot more on developing my own youth players in FM23, more than previous games. I've got 6 kids in my first team who came through my intake. I've got a few more cooking up in my youth team...
More research questions:
What is de influence of national team games, both youth and senior, on development?
All things are tested indivually here. Are there any hidden mulitplier effect if you combine certain things?
If I have a team that is busy on 3 fronts (league, CL and cup), so I have a lot of matchdays without training, is it stil better to put wonderkids who don't play in the senior squad? Even if I have a development training in the youth squad and more matchday focused training in the senior squad?
Aaa, football manager, always so many questions.
The loans aspect has blown my mind.
So where is the website where we can plug in all the details about our wonderkids? I can't seem to find it
Could'nt find it either. Help will be appreciated
In the video description it's labeled "Personality Checker"
More of this type of content, please. It's so good and the reason I subbed to this channel
A takeaway might be that that loans offer no value in player development... but what about consistency!!! I was always of the understanding matches was the only way to boost that key attribute.
*Please* do a colab with Evidence Based Football Manager! Even an interview with him on your shared scientific approach to understanding the game and/or how to come up with good experiments.
I would love to, I've reached out to him once before but he's hard to get a hold of
Finally back to Football Manager content
Z has a data analyst team that brentford would be jealous about....
My third year in serie b ground out from serie d. Thanks Z my ass is on fire if we dont go up im canned. Hopefully i can get these youngsters up to cuff this preseason and bring us up
Yet another educational content from Big Z. Better than the ministry of education
Amazing VITÓRIA DE GUIMARÃES SHIRT! Im an FC Porto hearted fan, but seeing a familiar shirt, and also a beautifull one, baffles me everytime! Lets go Portugal 🇵🇹
A Vitória Sport Clube shirt. Nice one :)
Wow, gonna test these on my new batch of newgens in my Bordeaux save, thx 👍
great video man keep the good work thank you so much, now you have to make one for the youth intake to clear how the facilities, head of youth and youth coaches affect the intake
I always train my high potential players with the first team and have mentoring. As you said, I also have them acailable for youth teams
is it better to leave youth players in the u18/21 team but include them in first team training or promote them to the first team and make them available for u18/u21 matches?
this, this is the question i needed answered… ‘cause i don’t wanna see 30+ players on my senior team sheet.
you can just have the kids train with the seniors but idk if that would work out the same (yeah i know i basically added nothing to your question but i really need to know, lmk if you have come up with any solution)
@@HakeemTatia Ive just been adding my best prospects to senior team training and leaving them in the youth till they are 18 when i loan them and the youth i buy for profit i leave in the youth till they are 18 then loan them then sell once they are like 20-22
I dont know how good that is but get one or two players every year from the loans come into my first team which is a top 4 english club
When I loan my young players to LaLiga, they somehow develop way more even compare to other elite leagues like PL, Serie A, and Bundesliga. I thought it's because a lot of wonderkids speak Spanish, but even players from obscure countries develop better in Spain. Is it just me or do you guys have the same experience?
La liga and bpl have the highest league reputation.
@@yeevolution I know, but LaLiga is much better than PL for me. Even LaLiga Smartbank is better than those elite leagues in my experience. Bundesliga is sometimes good, but loans to Serie A rarely worked at least on my saves.
Amazing kit Zealand still waiting for the Benfica one
I think every fm player should know about fmrte its a great little program where you can look up hiden attributes, and even cheap if you like.
Seems your team got the same results as Max from EvidenceBasedFootballMAnager, which is encouraging to see so we are sure taht all those results are the same with 2 different experiments :D
I mean, experiments are essentially the same. All results are the same which mean no methodological flaws. The only thing different is double intensity tryining, but I think Max tested that on FM22 so it's possible it changed with the latest version.
@@Draddar Yeah that is what I meant, we confirmed that both methodologies are correct
Pretty sure Zealand or his "team" straight up used EBFM data.
Do games played for my reserves count towards the ideal 20-30 game window you refer to?
Thank you Z and the training team
We need a reactive or dynamic potential rating for players in fm24
Where players potential change based on their performance
And also if they don't play competitive matches over most of the season they lose potential.
In my save RM bought a wonderkid for $20m and played him 3 times (2 were non competitive) in 4 seasons.
He had great stats and was eventually bought by Napoli and ripped up the serie A before being bought this season as a star player at Tottenham, but it isn't realistic that A) he wasn't played for 4 seasons despite obviously being one of the most promising players of his age, B) he would still be at the same potential despite playing 3 games in 4 years.
@@bananarama3624 I don't see why not playing should lower your potential. It may lower your stats, but the potential is how good you could potentially be in ideal circumstances. And that shouldn't change aside from some serious injury.
I disagree, I don't think potential should be dynamic at all. And definitely not based on performance. That would make the game too easy, and take a lot of what it makes it interesting.
Like take for example when Zealand wanted to sell Thiago Nuss. He was a good player for the team. But he got offers for 2 million. That resulted in him having to deal with the drama of getting rid of Thiago Nuss and convincing him to leave. So Zealand can use the money to improve the team.
If Dynamic Potential existed there would be no point in selling Nuss. He is playing well so he is going to develop and get better anyway.
Dynamic potential is for games like FIFA because people just want to play with the players they like. FM is meant to simulate a manager experience.
Thanks, but I have a simple question. What is Current and potential Ability? Because it's not the sum of attributes. Is it the sum of attributes for the player's best role? How is it calculated?
Great research Zealand! Very useful and enlightening video. Greetings from Greece.
P.S. It would be super awesome if you made a video on how should a nation be built, or at least how you think it should be done!
P.S. #2 Up the peacocks!
This is quite helpful and very informative on how to grow a Wonderkid. Big thanks to you man.
this was a pleasure to watch
Confusing wording on a couple things:
1. When you were talking about young players maxing out at 30 matches played, do you mean starts or total appearances? I figured it meant total appearances since you didn't specify starts, but then you started talking about subs, so I'm not sure what you meant by matches.
2. When talking about subs, you said they're better off not coming into the game after the 70th minute because they miss out on training. Do your bench players who don't get in the game still train on match day? If so, what training do they do, when there is none set?
Great video, though!
Do non-competitive matches count towards the matches played count @5:40?
in a previous video you said it was better to keep youngsters in the youth teams so they don't miss out on training when the senior team plays a game and now they should be in the senior team...
And that's the end result of someone trying to give better tips based on researched facts rather than opinion. The same is true for scientific research. We can only give tips as good as the facts and experience we have in front of us at that time.
Nice Vitória de Guimães shirt 👍
Thank you for the tests and analysis! Great team and great efforts!
Question! I hope you get the chance to answer. Does playing your u20s vs your reserves count as a intrasquad friendly?
The "sweet spot" of playing 20-30 matches a season is actuallly quite representative of the real world. Older players are more battle-hardened, while you run the risk of burning out a young talent with too much exercise. This is for instance why professional cycling teams rarely run young talents for more than 60 race days, while grizzled veterans might run 80 to 90 days a season.
Great info, thank you! Knew or felt (using the Force ofc) most of this already, but confirming it is brilliant. Big surprise though with the inactive league loans.. very curious.
Set the training right away duble intenseity and look at what they need and do mentors
Awesome video as always! Does this apply to older generation fm games like fm 20?
One thing you never mentioned is whether the level of the opposition matters for a players development. For example, do players gain more from playing against Man City vs a league 2 team?