Semi vs. Bolt: SR-25 vs. Scalpel
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In this Episode from Tac TV Season 3, Larry visits Gunsite to try and solve a classic small arms dilemma; Bolt action vs. Semi-Automatic .308 shoot-off. Walt Wilkinson joins Larry to try and take both guns to their limits head to head.
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Redo the test. You need to have the same length and twist barrel and the same scope.
You redo it
they both probably had a 1:10 twist... and i don't think the barrel length has to be the same but the length that gave the semi was unfair... it should have been what you would normally see on that style weapon... you're not going to have a 26 inch semi auto 308 but you could find a 20 inch one easily and if they compared them the test would have been much more favorable for the semi...
@@jeremyconrad9183 You can tell at 300 yards on paper how its going to work out. Look at the drop comparison. Thats a much larger and steeper arc. Going to be much more difficult. 308Win/7.62Nato isnt a round that anyone would try and shoot out to 800 yards with a 16in barrel.Thats a inside 500 yards with quickly engaging multiple target setup. A 20in barrel would be a much more accurate comparison, its a standard length for a semi. Anything between 18-22 I would have considered reasonable, sorta but not 16.
@Anthony Avelar not at all
We've got a keyboard warrior here giving instructions to two retired Delta operators. SMFH
Some of the best bullet trail footage I've seen to date. Great video Larry, knocked it out of the park on this one.
Love these videos. Really puts into perspective how hard it actually is to make first round hits in real world scenarios. Now imagine you've been out for several days, you're exhausted and you've been in several firefights or calling multiple targets. The majority of the population bases their "know" on Hollywood.
Omgg those vapour trails in slomo on the steel target HNNNNGGGGG
8:08 for those wondering
+rassi13 They are in the desert, not vapor.
Bullet trace may be easier to see if there is moisture in the air (vapor) but it can still be seen in a desert climate due the compression of air that the bullet is flying through causing the light traveling through said air to be distorted due to the varying densities.
Arkaydenn Garuda also fuck you internet troll
+grizzly beer No vapor, no tree's.....I see tree's.
Bolt Action versus Semi Auto isn't a fair comparison when one has a BARREL that is EIGHT INCHES LONGER then the other!
True but in this video the bolt had a huge advantage on the wind he kept complaining about. The added velocity of the WAY longer barrel helps that bullet cut through wind much better. Put the same barrel on that semi and the difference in accuracy would be negligible.
Not to mention that he was using longer ranges on the shortie and closer ranges on the long dong.
shorter barrels are actually more rigid than longer ones. They vibrate and flex less when the bullet travels down it.
+greg wickersham
Shorter barrels also have less velocity, which is HUGE when shooting long range! The comparison needed to have the same size barrels.
TOP manufacturer custom bolt vs semi with same size barrels would be a better test...they did have good weapons, just needed same size barrels.
ok yeah i agree the M 1-10 would be a better comparison because of the barrel length , but i see why he used the short gun , its more mobile for a squad mobile operation. it hit target at 850 yrds , so that is a good range and better than standard AR set up for 300 yrd fire fights with corners cover and flanks. 308 is generally 1000 yrd gun. my biggest issues are that he said one was imfamous 308 , but no details on the semi auto. also he had a spotter reading off distance the second time , and the first time , he never mentioned if he had the scope lined in , and they had no dial in on targets ... if you are shooting for groups you aim same spot every time , you don't adjust aim. just seems like they got the results they were aiming for and not a true 1000 yrd test.
ps the barrel makes a difference , the faster bullet has less time pulled by wind and gravity , the stiff barrel has a more accurate follow up shot (faster) , bolt action is slow lol. just seems odd his first shots were all over the place at 300 , and nailed 850 1 shot.
Hey Larry, love the videos!! Thank you for your service and for showing us this gear in use. I saw a picture in one of your videos with you behind the memorial plaque for Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart. I have the utmost respect for those men and wondered if you would ever do a video on those men and there weapons and how they overcame so much using there skill, determination, and just no quit attitude like so many of your comrades. Thanks so much again.
Loved this episode! From the intro, to the subject, and everything about it came together so well.
This is def one of my top fav vickers tactical vids I thoroughly enjoyed this thank you Larry Vickers for sharing !
" In this matchup, I choose whoever gives me more money. My opinion is always for sale."
well I guess you are getting the 700; I have never seen any sr or even sr clone for sale let alone a price that isn't 4k
The Knights Armament lowers look very similar to the Armalite AR-10A lowers. How different are the two lowers? I am aware that the Knights Armament has an ambi set up which differs tremendously. But the 45 degree cut in the back looks the same as the one on the Armalite.
@@daylightbrightdlb6010 Knights teamed up with Eugene Stoner for development if I remember correctly.
walt seems awesome. relaxing voice too, great trait in a spotter
Between that Surgeon rifle and Nightforce scope you're at damn near $10k lol
How fast can you afford to go? LoL
+Alex Smyth Yeah and for 1 moa? or he just a shitty shooter?
+TAC-Z He very clearly said that the Surgeon bolt gun would shoot 'substantially better' than the one MOA of the semi-auto.
+TAC-Z What? As he mentioned in the video, it's way below 1 moa with the bolt gun.
Marc Michel Did he? I saw him shoot in excess of a 3 inch group at 300 yds, the instructor excluded the 'fliers'...
Man this video was AMAZING!!! So many trails to look at and best of all in slow motion. Awesome
I love how hype Larry gets when his shooting is spot on haha
I’ve never been brought up around guns....but listening to them talk their language was actually so beautiful to just be captivated in. The math, the commonality between the two, the experience and judgement is just incredible
Shaquille Nuku see paul harrell, he is like firearms 101 for dummies
for the amount of effort you put in your videos, you should have more subs
+Tyler Young He has his TacTV website which as far as I understand is a paid subscription brand new content. They do seasons, and this stuff on TH-cam is from older seasons.
he has 650k subs now
I would think all the fancy videos a guy would find someone who could shoot worth a piss
That spotter is beastly
I love watching the arc of the bullet path on the longer shots.
Good video, Larry. I always dislike seeing TH-cam channels try and develop purely "scientific" bolt versus semi comparisons; there's no such thing in variable shooting environments.
This video stood out to me because the weapons were ultimately pitted against one another in their INTENDED roles. And as such, it demonstrates their efficacy comparatively.
Good stuff.
Please adopt me or be my uncle.
My sugar daddy pls !
Bolt guns ARE more accurate...totally agree BUT, custom semi's by top tier manufacturers have the ability to be sub- MOA. With that said, it is possible to "have your cake and eat it too"
A custom semi can actually be more accurate than an average bolt gun...
you could also buy a really nice car with a custom semi.
Bolt guns are not more accurate than top quality semi auto guns.
The design of the AR-10 really is top quality, and good barrels with good fit to the bolt will give you the same or better accuracy out of a semi auto gun.
It'll just cost a lot more to get the same accuracy.
Laura with the guilt trip lol
Theodore Bear top quality bolt guns ARE more accurate that semis, you can't compare low quality bolt guns to top quality semis
Isaiah Yennie
- Top quality bolt guns are NOT more accurate than top quality semi autos. That's just a fact.
That's why you should be looking into a quality semi auto, like the one in this video. If both guns were in the same caliber, both guns would probably be equally accurate, but the bolt gun would need $3000 of work, and the semi auto would cost $3000.
This is a unfair comparison. A 16" vs 24" barrel. Total different velocities
should have been at bare minimum 18"
I love how you can see the trail of the rounds when fired. Super cool watching that trajectory
Awsome shots, perfect spotter, great rifles..
A nice day it must have been !
Great video. Interesting to see if the 20 inch barrel variation of the SR 25 would have performed better due to muzzle velocity, especially with wind being a factor during this testing scenario.
Compare apples to apples. A $5800 msrp starting point, gives you way more options in a gas gun. Using a 16" barreled gas gun, is asinine at that range, compared to a long barreled bolt gun. The -3 power optic on an object starting at 450 yards? Crazy. This may be the most lop-sided comparison available. You hampered the gas gun in every way, shape, and form. Irresponsible.
5800 can buy FX impact only, in indonesia
Awesome! My only question is: on the first two courses of fire, why did the semi only get one follow-up shot on a missed target while the bolt gun got two follow-up shots on a missed target?
Glad I found this video in 2020! It helped me make a final decision on which platform I'm buying.... Thank you both.
What'd you go with?
@@buffalowick8003 AR Platform
Fantastic video. I think everyone could predict the results, but it was really fun watching you take us there.
Larry, please keep doing videos with this guy. They are your best videos imho. He is very knowledgeable
I like the way you set this up and executed this.
I was fortunate enough to meet Walt last week at Gunsite. He would certainly get my vote for the most interesting man alive award. What a nice guy! On the second day there, he walked up to me with a headless Mojave Green that he blew the head off of 30 minutes prior. You would swear the thing was still alive the way it moved.
I was on the range at Camp Shelby, MS. back around the turn of the century when the Surgeon Boys were bringing out their new action and it was a one-up (OR 2) on anything out there. An outstanding piece of craftsmanship!! HOWEVER, if you weigh the cost vs additional benefit ( increased accuracy over a SAKO TRG, AI, or a tricked out M700, M70) it is a significant price to pay for something that MOST will never shoot well enough to appreciate. BUT, were I young and rich OR had freebies from the best builders, hell...I'd have one in a heartbeat! Having ol LAV and the good Sarn Major to coach me... probably doesn't get MUCH better.
I want to buy Walt a beer and listen to some of his stories. He reminds me of some of my favorite senior NCOs when I was in. There is a lot to learn from a man like him.
Tac TV needs to be back on the air.
do u plan doing an accuarcy test on the HK G36?
Cause my goverment wants to put it out of service.
I love this channel.. my wife is the only reason I still have cable.
Were you a Ranger. ?
John Bacon Class 5-96 I was armor branch as a LT, so went to 1/13 AR to be a platoon leader after i graduated.
Jacob Krieger great question, i don't know. we still had m16s, m203s and m60s when i went thru. lol
Jacob Krieger 96.
Jacob Krieger we didn't know better.. i would have carried an MG42 if that was what was handed to me!
Yep! But you know in France it's going more and more difficult to get a "Semi-auto autorisation". So most of us are using bolt action as best as we can... And it's working.
Good video with Walt, would you had fought the wind better if you used a suppressor?
Wish my local shooting range had something like this.
Bryan Espinosa build one my friend
The value of a very good spotter can't be stressed enough.
Nice video Larry, pretty cool to see the trail of the round on its way.
Hey Larry. I think that one thing that was missing is the velocity between the two. the Scalpel with the longer barrel obviously will help with a flatter trajectory as to the 16 inch on the KAC. It's also to be know that it is quite more difficult to shoot the semi more consistently with more moving parts.
Companies like LaRue have been making ridiculously accurate semi autos like the OBR. I was a mediocre shot with mine, and still holding 1/2 MOA with factory ammo.
Larry always hits his mark after lunch.
Glad to see the military stepping up there game. Almost bought this upper a few month's ago but went BCM 16" middy. The cost was to much. But it's a sweet upper hands down!!! Nice review pew, pew!!!!!
Lmfao! Look at that guy at 11:38! My mans is like you better watch out with that hand haha🤣
Loving the longer vids Larry! This is a great one!
On deployment everyone had M-4s, saws and 240Bs, but the moment we saw a pair of bolt-action rifles in the armory, guys started talking about how they wanted to carry one.
We were in open terrain, but I think the appeal was want of scoped weapon vs red dot.
Luv your videos best gun channel period
I don’t get why he’s comparing a bolt gun with a semi with a 16.5 inch barrel I think a longer barrel would give a better comparison
Just think how rare a man of this caliber really is. There aren’t many tier 1 operators
Very skilled spotter.
best Channel about Guns on TH-cam
love those slow motion bullet in flight shots
I sold KAC products in the early 2000s, was the only dealer in the country that stocked their full line of rifles when they were available, according to Dave Lutz. I sold a pile of them.
I’ve seen and shot a number of SR25s, in all common barrel lengths, that were sub-moa capable.
In my opinion, if accuracy was an issue with a shooter using an SR-25, the shooter or the ammo needed changed, not the rifle.
You make the extremely difficult look comparatively easy. Nice job Larry.
Very cool....great video. I hope to go to Gunsite someday...looks like a lot of fun learning
I just got my father a Bolt action rifle for Christmas. He's never been happier.
Larry I normally enjoy watching your show but I have to say this test was a bit of a joke. You're gonna seriously conduct a long distance accuracy test between a 24 inch barrel (bolt gun) and a 16 inch barrel (Knights Armament AR)??!! That's not even remotely fair. I could have saved you a lot of time and ammo and just told you the 24 inch barrel would win hands down. I'm speaking from experience having put a lot of rounds down range through very similar guns used in this episode. I have a 16 inch LWRC REPR and before that I had a SIg 716. I also have a custom bolt gun that has a 24" barrel (McMillan stock, Bartlein M24 1-10 twist barrel, Defiance action, and a Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27x scope) that I've shot out to 1,100 yds. The 16 inch barrel has a ton of drop outside 400-500 yds especially when you're comparing it to the drop a 24 inch barrel has at equal or greater distances. I know I can't be alone when I say you should conduct the same test again using equal barrel lengths and see what the results are cause I'd be very interested to see if there's any major difference.
+Chris Harris Plus the Nightforce scope is a better scope than the Khales. My opinion anyways.
+Chris Harris I would also add that if you are doing a test to compare rifles, run each through the same tests (not run each through a different test). That will give you a much more accurate result to be able to do a true comparison.
+1klakak
Absolutely! A side by side comparison would be awesome to see. Come on Larry put it together! I would love to see the 20" LWRC Reaper, 20" FN SCAR the SEALs are running (MK20 SSR), and a 20" High quality bolt gun being run through all the same tests and distances and see who comes out on top.
can you do a video with tracer rounds just because it will look sweet
Damn larry ur a really good shot I saw ur skills w the long pistol shot but this really shows u can see the wind with the grass ur laying in bugging out and I'm sure want consistant with force and possibly direction depending on where is gauged
You need to revisit this with two 6.5 creedmoor rifles. 20" barrels.
this video was awesome! something about long range vapor trails is magical and spiritual
Educational Larry bravo !
$4500+? yeah im going to keep my 700...
max margherio Standard 700’s are much more accurate/precise than most average shooters out there. That being said, a better barrel, a trued action, trigger and a bedded action will add a lot to a standard 700.
Nice looking gun, and more importantly, I think it would ROCK in taking down the zombies.
This channel should be renamed to "Gunporn". Love it!
oh man this video was awesome.and great shooting man!
AND... They even added a Tac-TV logo.
*DROPS MICROPHONE*
Great guns with best config! Really nice action Larry
Walt is the man! Smokes my ass every damn time... I have shot that ridge numerous times. Azz kicker. Funny, he's not acting at all in this video. No slack, none, that's Walt.
In the heads-up multi-target course of fire at the end, is that Dave Davis on the clock??
Glad I subbed to this channel. Amazing, highly produced video!
larry just wanted to say you are awesome you great skills at shooting and hitting the target just wanted to give u props really great show learned allot
Love the video and I appreciate your service Larry!
Best got damn intro I ever seen on TH-cam
Thanks to the authors. For professionalism. For their excellent work.
As a left shooter do you find the gas and pressure of the semi opening a bit distracting, The shots you made say you have either adapted or are immune. I have never shot enough semiauto to get completely comfortable with the bolt coming back toward my eye the pressure change as it opens, I'll stay with the bolt thanks. Super video keep on target!!!!
i think he could have gotten the bolt to 20 seconds as well. he was taking longer to aim just because it was a bolt gun. no need at those close ranges.
+turinreza I think it's slower to track/reacquire target while cycling new rounds in for the bolt. With the semi there is less body movement to offset your aim.
In my opinion .... Semi auto fowr marksmans and bolt action for longe-range snipers /expect .50/
Fuckin' cool! Another masterpiece video from Vickers Tactical!
I hate to revive this, it's old ... but in this video you compared one of the most expensive custom, hand-fitted bolt guns to a mass produced 308 semi-auto rifle. Of course it's a given that the gun that someone took 20 hours to lap, mate, bed, etc by hand then is tested specifically for accuracy before it goes to the end user with a target and a guarantee is going to be more accurate compared to a gun coming off of a general assembly line.
Great shooting Larry.
Yeah...gimmie the KAC SR-25 with the 20” heavy barrel vs. the 16” carbine.
Wind callin' like a boss
Wow so this was a very good real world test and for those that are whining about the difference in barrel length it's far less of a variable then you think only about 200 fps at most as for accuracy short barrels are inherently more accurate. I would say this is show in the fact both rifles shot a very similar sized group. I also think most if you missed the biggest point they are different tools for different jobs. Semi for if you're running from 100 to 450-500 on big targets and a bolt for small targets or when you really have to reach out there and accuracy is all you care about. Snipers hide guys did a good video about this as well.
Both a damn sexy firearm in their own respect.
Dr.Vickers! I want a scalpel!
The music 🤣 perfect
SR-25 2500$ for the rifle, 2900$ for the name on the gun
Apophis for sure
RaZeRbLaDeZ what exactly makes it “better” than other high end ar type rifles?
those fuckin KAC's are god damn accurate
Awesome video, great drills and courses of fire
Great video! One question though, would it not be a fairer test to use the same brand of scope and scope mount on each rifle?
Solution: a .308 (7.62x51mm) bolt gun for a sniper with ammo and magazine compatibility to the semi, and a semi for the spotter with offset irons, and an LPVO.
I love the video, the only thing that I see is that the comparison doesn't seem as fair with the barrel length difference. If they both had the same barrel lengths I believe it would have been a lot more fair. Like both 16 or 20 inch barrels
Larry, what is your opinion of the Kahles scope vs the Nightforce? How did the glass compare?
Have you considered using tracers for your videos?
Even my Dpms LR308 shoots sub-moa from the factory. The advantage to bolt action guns is that they're light weight and are easier to make function properly with magnum cartridges. Anything bigger than 30-06 I usually use bolt action. When it comes to battle rifle cartridges like .308 and anything smaller, semi auto is my favorite by a mile.
Larry, can you do a shoot off comparison between the Barrett Rec10 and the SR-25?
HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST EXPENSIVE TOYS WINS! And KAHLES is not pronounced CALES... at least not while I was in Germany. Try CAL-LAYS .... give me the gas gun 95% of the time!! Give THAT SR25 another 4" on the bbl and it would have compared even better.
+Jerry Sullivan I'll take the gas gun 100% of the time. If the "target" is close enough for a 308 to be effective, I'll take the gasser every time.
+rdsii64 ROGER THAT!
true. 16" carbine vs 24" rifle, both barrels should have been equal length.
+Tom Acton I disagree. Barrel Length doesn't correlate with accuracy. Only Velocity. Its actually been proven, shorter barrels (compared to longer at the SAME diameter) are more accurate, because of less barrel "whip."
and you think additional velocity at 600-800 meters does not enhance accuracy?? Why do you think benchrest shooters use very long barrels? You've missed the point ! Literally..
Snipers in modern battlefields can't guarantee (at all) a manageable number of targets, or guarantee they can stay behind and provide accurate fire from one position, they need to be flexible and adapt, semi auto is a far better system.
Absolutely. Semi for combat. But when you have a sniper actively targeting high level military officials or officers you want precision.
This video was unbiased, and basically helped settle a little debate on which is better. After three days of debating with one of my friends on this, this video just put an end to that debate. Honestly I've always sided with bolt. Accuracy rules over fire rate in my opinion.
For sniper purpose, of course!!