That was the absolute best visual on how to do this. Doing a flat pack should be how people learn how to do this (provided they don't already have a good idea). As soon as you stack the them on top of one another it gets more complex (if you don't understand the logic of the wring)
Thank you for the video. I usually add a fillet of heat gun glue between each pair of cells before soldering. That not only prevents the cells from flopping around while soldering, it also gives the pack additional structural integrity during a crash.
I always use a little(!) Drop of hotglue to secure the cells togeter also to solder them togeter i use tinned solderwick(very thick one)as a wire connection.
I recently used 8 of those cells to make a nice 4s pack for one of my fixed wings. They weigh less than a 4s lipo pack. I got about 25 minutes flight time with the lipo. With the li-ion pack i am getting well over an hour. Less weight with more than double the range. They are ideal for fixed wings and cruising style quads.
This is a nice execution on the build, and a good example to follow. However, for those of you just learning how to DIY your own packs as I was when I stumbled across this video, the most important decision you make is what cell you select. Whirlybloke does mention he chose the Panasonic 18650B cell because he just happened to have some extra in his possession. He does indicate that they have a low current rating and also posts the info on the data sheet in the video description. Whirlybloke falls short of discouraging the use of these batteries for drone applications. To put it simply, the Panasonic 18650B is the wrong cell choice if you want your drone to actually fly. I was heavily influenced because he made this pack for a crocodile 7, which I own. I was also in the process of researching how to build my own Li-ion packs for long range. It seemed exactly what I was looking for, so I built 4 packs. Through some test flights I discovered the batteries were overwhelmed by the current demands of just maintaining a hover. The cells experienced severe voltage sag and the drone was underpowered and dropped to the ground. All packs I made are useless for flying and will be for you too, if you use the Panasonic cells. If you intend to make your own pack, look into the sony VTC5A, or Sony VTC6 cells, which are probably the best balance of capacity and IR. They are the same cells that Auline uses for their Li-ion packs. Whirlybloke, as someone in a position to influence peoples decisions in the FPV hobby, you do have a responsibility to provide accurate information. I suggest you make it clear that there are better battery choices, and that the Panasonic 18650B is a poor choice for drone applications. The only reason I chose this cell is because of your video. I'm not the only one that has made this same mistake, as I've had direct communication with another victim of your influence.
Agreed, but I did make the point these were cells that I happened to have anyway. The best choice is the VTC6 variant of the 18650 that I covered in this video th-cam.com/video/on_Y57qkz94/w-d-xo.html
For anyone reading this now - Molicel cells are the best at high discharge and high capa, if you can find and afford them. Their P50B 21700 releasing this year is absolute science fiction, with a rated 45 A continuous discharge (
I settled on the Sony VTC5D for what appears to be the highest amp rating of any 18650s I can find. Might be 2800mah but I am building 6s2p for use on 7in or even a pair for my 13in for 11200mah. I figure my 6s2p packs are good for 30amps continuous and around 60amps burst rating. Pack weight for 6s2p is 645g and yields 23min flight times cruising at 15-19amps on 2806.5 1300kv Avengers and HQ 7040x3 props. AUW 1350gs with Hero 7 Black on a Project 399 frame. The 13in I am not really ready to talk about but about to move to an 8s4p pack.
This would be better than the one shown in the video, but I doubt this would be safe; just about every lipo can output at least 100 amps, while the cells in the video only output 5.
Beginner. Have seen a few videos, all were ok. But the voice over here truly helped. One suggestion - if you can put a slide of ALL parts used, it will help beginners like me place orders easier. Cheers.
I made two of those 3400mah 3s batteries, not 6s...well, because I could care less about long range flying! Lol I made them out of $1 Li-ion cell phone batteries I found on Clearance sale from a China website. I made them for my QX7! Cost me about $6 each due to the fact I found out you have to have some goop that's made so you can solder to aluminum! Cuz you normally can't solder to it! Anyway, a great and easy project for long life batteries for my Taranis! 😎 🤘
I have done some li ion packs and have found that the Sony VTC6 3000mAh 20A 18650 cells the best for flight time as the NCR18650B cells have a higher resistance and quite a lot of the energy is being wasted and have a shorter flight time. I really think you would be shocked with the flight time difference in real work flying.
Yep, I agree. There's is a quite a bit of difference between the different manufacturers 18650 cells. - Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh IR 55mOhm - Sony vtc6 18650 3100mAh IR 13mOhm - Sony vtc5a 18650 2500mAh IR 9.8mOhm VTC6 looks to be the best compromise of internal resistance and energy. I've got some on order. The NCR18650 cells I used were just what I had kicking around looking for a use. Thanks for the info and thanks for watching.
Wow, fantastic video Whirly Bloke, I’ve been wanting to make a 6s for long range on my GepRC Crown CiniWhoop, I do believe I’ve found my perfect instructional video. Thanks very much👍👍
I've discovered that there is also a 21700 type Li-Ion battery, that would be ideal as it is just between 1 and 2 packs of 18650 cells. It then weighs less then 2 of these packs, while delivering somewhere around 4000 mAh of current.
Hello sir.i made the project but i have a problem.when i put the maximum power on the motors the red light of the receiver blink and shuts down ,do you have any idea why this happening?thank you for your time
Doesn't the quad use a lot more discharge rate than 2C? You had with your first test 20 min flight time (other Video) which is on average already 3C (dunno how much capacity was left). Shouldn't this be bad for the battery?
Not at all. The battery will only deliver what its capable of which is primarily limited by the internal resistance. Check the end of the video for the final voltages. You could run the Lithium Ion cells to a lower end voltage, but it affects the long term life.
@@WhirlyBloke Thanks for your reply. Are you sure about the "limited by internal resistance"? This sounds differently: electronics.stackexchange.com/a/16981
hei.. lest say i already had 4pcs of murata 18650. and i want to make a 6s from it.. can i just buy 2pc new and combine it with my old 4pcs? is it safe? do i need to buy all new 6 pcs of murata to make one new 6s liion?
What would be the effect if my nickel strips are not thick enough? Would they just get very hot? Or would also the voltage drop? I have a 4S2P pack with SONY Murata VTC6, which should be able do deliver 30A*2 continuously, but I have a fast voltage on only 15-20A.
Epic build video! Can't wait to try it. Do you have to worry about the copper taps hitting the sides of the battery and causing a short? Also, small detail but aren't the batteries 65mm tall so why do you need 105mm tall heat shrink? Are you sure that's what size you used? About to purchase so just wanted to double check if I'm missing something. Thanks Whirly Bloke!
I LOVE YOU! i was thinking about using my vape 18650s cause i have at least 100 of them.. this could be good use for them. Would you share how heavy the pack is ? my 5" uses 180gram 6s pack, i bet its around 300... which is.. like if i had gopro and whatever strapped to quad
My build will be a different weight from yours cos it uses different manufacturers batteries. Just weigh one of your batteries and multiply it by the number of cells you plan using and add 5% for wires etc. That'll give you the approximate weight of your pack. Thanks for watching.
So this battery pack will output more than 20V. Can you connect it directly or is a dc to dc convertor necessary between the battery pack and the drone ?
Which jumper is better to use for assembling Molicell 21700 42A - 6S What thickness and width of the steel tape is suitable for peak loads of long-range quadcopters.
When assembling a battery pack for long-range quadcopters using Molicell 21700 42A - 6S cells, the most common choice for the battery contacts is copper or nickel-plated copper. Copper has a high electrical conductivity and is a good thermal conductor, which helps with heat dissipation during high-current discharge. Nickel plating can help to prevent corrosion and improve the contact resistance. It is important to note that the choice of metal for the battery contacts is only one factor to consider when designing a battery pack for quadcopters. Other important factors include the layout and arrangement of the cells, the type and quality of the insulation used, and the overall construction of the pack. It is recommended to consult with an experienced battery pack designer or engineer to ensure that your battery pack is safe, reliable, and optimized for the specific needs of your quadcopter.
I was thinking of using inr2170 cells to make little 1s batteries for my mobula7 tinywhoop. Not really sure how many amps the whoop pulls though. The cells are 4800mah and rated for like 30a or something. Do you think it would be okay? On 1s, i doubt the whoop would draw too much, but idk
Question, when you charge: Select Lion, 4s, balance charge (since the capacity of the 4s is 3400 mAH) why isn't the current set at 3.4, you said 1.5. Is the charge rate different for Lion compared to Lipo because Lion can not discharge and recharge fast like Lipos can?
Great video! Clarifying question that I haven't been able to find an answer to...fully charged, this will be at 25.2V, correct? (4.2V X 6 = 25.2V). Why are you using 3.8V to come up with labeling this battery at 22.8V? Just want to be sure I understand the math before I charge one of these at my own risk! Thank you!
Great video! I have a doubt about the balance leads. So the red goes to the positive and the black cables goes to each negative of the cells? In one of your cells there is a black balance lead just in the middle of the nicketl connection between positive and negative, could you explain me why? Thanks in advance !
Hello ! I see a lot of packs that are built without BMS. In your case, if one of the cells were to discharge faster than another, how would it be detected? Isn't there a risk of explosion without BMS to check the voltage during the flight? Thank you in advance for your answer
A BMS is not required in this type of RC application. If the overall pack voltage drops below and average of 3.3V or whatever is set in the flight controller, the quad will prompt to land and eventually failsafe. Also, these are charged using a balance charger and it's usual to check cell voltages and internal resistance before each charge cycle, so you're monitoring for any problems. A BMS is normal required for applications like electric bikes etc
Are there any heat/cooling issues with this pack when you fly it for extended periods of time? Also are the balance leads needed? (trying to save weight)
Hi. I wanted to ask a quick question regarding Amp rating on 18650 cells. I'm looking at the Sony VTC6 3000mah 20A. However there is a Sony VTC5A 2500mah 25A, they both weigh the same (give or take a gram). Do you think the higher Amp rating is worth the drop in mah ? Let's say in a situation at longer range where you need a sudden punch out to recover video, do you think the extra 5A on the VTC5A would really make that much difference ? I understand these packs aren't for aggressive punch outs, i'm just curious if that extra power available would help. Thanks.
1. You can not solder on a 18650 cell. You will definitely damage the part of the battery under the - anode. (The + cathode is often spaced away from the chemicals, so possibly no damage). So do not do it. Use a point welder instead. The weld happens in milliseconds, and does not warm the inside of the battery. 2. Do NOT package the battery pack into insulating foam. If you draw high power, the battery will overheat, and be damaged.
In general I agree with you, but this really only applies to mass produced packs. Spot welding will inject less heat into the cell, but my reflow solder approach is the best way if you don't own a welder. If you choose the right cells (these NCR18650's I used were not perfect cos they are higher internal resistance, but they were lying around and free) heat build up is minimal, especially if you let them cool properly after a flight before charging them.The massive benefits of thin foam is for damage protection - ally cases would be better though. I've been using building and using these type of packs for 3 years with no issues. I really should revisit this to cover my latest 21700 packs which are leagues better.
@@WhirlyBloke nice! If the curent isn´t to high and the packs gets only one flight probably heat isn´t a problem. I´ll mybe try someday a pack with those 21700 for 6S or something similar. I have seen that peak current can be as far as twice the specs when cooling properly each cell using 3D printed frames. But for that you need a 3D printer xD...
Don't it heat ?? Or is the temprature their lower compared to mine with 30°C AVERAGE daily. I ordered the same battery and they heat up real fast, just gave me 4 mins of flight time until it heated up and reaiatance kicked in and drone dropped out. But voltage comes back to normal after some timw
So as a newby should I even have to consider getting lipos? Im expecting my first fpv to arrive in a week from China and I havent bought any batteries yet. Im leaning more towards cruising , not racing...
Liion are really just for cruising, if you want to flips or some punches you need to go with a lipo. Do you have a quad yet? Cruising normally we use a 7inch prop frame and for Freestyle or racing 5inch or less. It really depends on what you want from your quad.
Like all Lithium Ion cells the NCR18650 has nowhere near the same C rating as LiPos. These cells are specs at 2C, but other 18650 cells are much better - like the Sony VTC6.
@@AkshayTravelFilmsDefinitely for anything other than light acro or long range cruising, Lipos are the way to go. But if you want long range/duration then Lithium Ion, especially 6S is the way to go. And you you need way less C rating than you think. Check out these videos that are using 4S Lithium Ion packs th-cam.com/video/LqTx4ei3Rhw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/on_Y57qkz94/w-d-xo.html
I've used that nickel strip from Amazon on my latest 21700 packs. Works fine, but I am using a cheap spot welder now cos I make lots of them and it's much quicker.
Question? If a single cell has a discharge amp rating of 5A, and you put 6 of these cells together in series as shown, will the total discharge rate be 30A or 5A?
@@mitchpalmer721 voltage battery will fall and battery will become hot , never good for lifetime. You can choose better liions cell with high discharge like Sony vtc6 ( 3000mah /20Amperes) or Sony Vtc5a (2500Mah/25 amperes) who are the best in 18650 size i think.
I think it's a cool project but to be honest I don't feel safe directly heating on top of li-ion batteries. I would rather get a battery box that can holds 18650s and call it a day, not only it could reduce the heat damaging the batteries, you can also swap battery once some battery died. I know that there are proper tools for making joints for batteries, but I also know that they're really expensive compare to plain old soldering. But anyway, great video and a great idea for making a battery pack. Just a personal comment tho.
Too much weight making a case. Potential for bad connections that limit current more than a properly soldered/tack welded joint. Crashes mean scattering cells everywhere potentially. Soldering them and securing them together solidly is the best option and likely the most light weight.
Great video. I'm waiting the batteries to make my own 6s lion packs. I've ordered the Samsung INR 3000mah 30Q That should have 20amp and a low internal resistance similar to the Sony vt50 I've red on other comments. Let's see how they will perform! Plan is to use those packs on 7inch quad and into an ar 900 fixed wing.
Hi bro I have a quadcopter With spec Dji f450 Frame Apm2.8 Fc 920kv motors 30a simonk esc 1045 propellers M8n gps Fsi6 tx and and rx If I make a battery pack like u will it work for me pls reply The nasty lipo are wasting my money as i just entered into the hobby iam nit having that much money with me Love from india
Kindly glue cells together so that they do not pit against each other at the end where the 2 cells are not connected. This is to avoid breaking the thin insulation so that the cells short circuit.
Fair point. But I've built about 20 of these packs and used glue and capon tape. They both work the same but the glue is messy and it's more difficult the replace a dud cell. Thanks for watching.
@@WhirlyBloke I put some thin strips of thin, but strong card between the cells. I once dropped a very tiny ball of molten solder that fell between two adjacent cells - very big sparks did happen. After seeing that i decided that relying on the two very thin battery wraps for insulation was not so wise, i would not trust them to not rub through in the event of a crash, or even dropping the pack on the floor. A few thin strips of card does not add much more than a couple of grams in the weight of the pack. It gives me peace of mind.
Can you have a look on Liitokala batteries? I think of buying Liitokala 21700 cells 4000mah 10C discharge, these cells weight 67g. sounds for me like a good choice for a 4S 4000mah liion battery for a 7inch? Or the 5000mah 21700 with 5C discharge rate for also 67g.. Otherwise the NCR18650B from Liitokala are 4300mah weight 48g and 2C discharge Do you have any experience with Liitokala?
@@WhirlyBloke here in Italy neither.. Need to order them from china, will take a few months. But looking at the characterestics which would you think are the best choice?
Just use a regular balance charger. Those cells are recommened to charge at 1.6A which is 0.5C. I don't recommend leaving any charging batteries unattended. Thanks for watching.
I know you have the DJI setup (I've seen your other video, thank you)...have you tried this battery on a quad with an Air Unit? Did you experience any issues? I can fly straight and level and I completely get that you can't treat these li-ions like a Li-Po...but at about 60% throttle my quad shuts down and crashes using this exact build. Have you or anyone else experienced this? I fly a 7" Kakute F7 AIO FC (6S capable) that has a dedicated DJI plug on it so I know it's regulated voltage.
I have the same issue on a crocodile 7". I can't even get out of a hover without the quad dropping to the ground. have you had any luck troubleshooting your issue? I have just come to the conclusion that the current demand is to high for the Panasonic 18650B???
@@DavidChavez-sj5bq I copied this design exactly and it didn't work. Not a reliable battery. It's a great theory but the technology does not support this right now.
@@pattywaktdiy4175 thanks for the reply. The technology exists, Its just the wrong choice of cell. The current demand exceeds the batteries capability, which causes extreme voltage sag causing the drone to drop. An 18650 with a higher current rating should resolve the issue. There's a reason auline batteries use sony vtc5a and vtc6 cells. they're rated for 30amps + continuous.
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out my community page for the wiring details of this pack th-cam.com/users/WhirlyBlokecommunity
That was the absolute best visual on how to do this. Doing a flat pack should be how people learn how to do this (provided they don't already have a good idea). As soon as you stack the them on top of one another it gets more complex (if you don't understand the logic of the wring)
Thanks for the great feedback. 👍
Thank you for the video. I usually add a fillet of heat gun glue between each pair of cells before soldering. That not only prevents the cells from flopping around while soldering, it also gives the pack additional structural integrity during a crash.
I've done that in the past. But now I rely on the capon tape cos it's less messy and probably stronger.
I always use a little(!) Drop of hotglue to secure the cells togeter also to solder them togeter i use tinned solderwick(very thick one)as a wire connection.
Great idea! Just a tiny drop between each cell would be more than enough. Next time I'll do that :)
That is a great idea!
Just the ticket mate, you always give great tuition. Clear, concise, no messing about. Just how we like it. Cheers, Mick, New Forest.
Thanks
I recently used 8 of those cells to make a nice 4s pack for one of my fixed wings. They weigh less than a 4s lipo pack. I got about 25 minutes flight time with the lipo. With the li-ion pack i am getting well over an hour. Less weight with more than double the range. They are ideal for fixed wings and cruising style quads.
They make awesome packs.
This is a nice execution on the build, and a good example to follow. However, for those of you just learning how to DIY your own packs as I was when I stumbled across this video, the most important decision you make is what cell you select. Whirlybloke does mention he chose the Panasonic 18650B cell because he just happened to have some extra in his possession. He does indicate that they have a low current rating and also posts the info on the data sheet in the video description. Whirlybloke falls short of discouraging the use of these batteries for drone applications. To put it simply, the Panasonic 18650B is the wrong cell choice if you want your drone to actually fly. I was heavily influenced because he made this pack for a crocodile 7, which I own. I was also in the process of researching how to build my own Li-ion packs for long range. It seemed exactly what I was looking for, so I built 4 packs. Through some test flights I discovered the batteries were overwhelmed by the current demands of just maintaining a hover. The cells experienced severe voltage sag and the drone was underpowered and dropped to the ground. All packs I made are useless for flying and will be for you too, if you use the Panasonic cells. If you intend to make your own pack, look into the sony VTC5A, or Sony VTC6 cells, which are probably the best balance of capacity and IR. They are the same cells that Auline uses for their Li-ion packs.
Whirlybloke, as someone in a position to influence peoples decisions in the FPV hobby, you do have a responsibility to provide accurate information. I suggest you make it clear that there are better battery choices, and that the Panasonic 18650B is a poor choice for drone applications. The only reason I chose this cell is because of your video. I'm not the only one that has made this same mistake, as I've had direct communication with another victim of your influence.
Agreed, but I did make the point these were cells that I happened to have anyway. The best choice is the VTC6 variant of the 18650 that I covered in this video th-cam.com/video/on_Y57qkz94/w-d-xo.html
For anyone reading this now - Molicel cells are the best at high discharge and high capa, if you can find and afford them. Their P50B 21700 releasing this year is absolute science fiction, with a rated 45 A continuous discharge (
I settled on the Sony VTC5D for what appears to be the highest amp rating of any 18650s I can find. Might be 2800mah but I am building 6s2p for use on 7in or even a pair for my 13in for 11200mah. I figure my 6s2p packs are good for 30amps continuous and around 60amps burst rating. Pack weight for 6s2p is 645g and yields 23min flight times cruising at 15-19amps on 2806.5 1300kv Avengers and HQ 7040x3 props. AUW 1350gs with Hero 7 Black on a Project 399 frame.
The 13in I am not really ready to talk about but about to move to an 8s4p pack.
Sounds interesting
This would be better than the one shown in the video, but I doubt this would be safe; just about every lipo can output at least 100 amps, while the cells in the video only output 5.
Beginner. Have seen a few videos, all were ok. But the voice over here truly helped. One suggestion - if you can put a slide of ALL parts used, it will help beginners like me place orders easier. Cheers.
Noted!
I made two of those 3400mah 3s batteries, not 6s...well, because I could care less about long range flying! Lol
I made them out of $1 Li-ion cell phone batteries I found on Clearance sale from a China website. I made them for my QX7! Cost me about $6 each due to the fact I found out you have to have some goop that's made so you can solder to aluminum! Cuz you normally can't solder to it!
Anyway, a great and easy project for long life batteries for my Taranis! 😎 🤘
Awesome. Thanks for watching.
I have done some li ion packs and have found that the Sony VTC6 3000mAh 20A 18650 cells the best for flight time as the NCR18650B cells have a higher resistance and quite a lot of the energy is being wasted and have a shorter flight time. I really think you would be shocked with the flight time difference in real work flying.
Yep, I agree. There's is a quite a bit of difference between the different manufacturers 18650 cells.
- Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh IR 55mOhm
- Sony vtc6 18650 3100mAh IR 13mOhm
- Sony vtc5a 18650 2500mAh IR 9.8mOhm
VTC6 looks to be the best compromise of internal resistance and energy. I've got some on order. The NCR18650 cells I used were just what I had kicking around looking for a use. Thanks for the info and thanks for watching.
Have you tried the samsung 30Q or the Sanyo-panasonic ones?
Wow, fantastic video Whirly Bloke, I’ve been wanting to make a 6s for long range on my GepRC Crown CiniWhoop, I do believe I’ve found my perfect instructional video. Thanks very much👍👍
I recommend using Sony VTC6 or equivalent 18650 cells. You'll get 3000mAh with a max 20A current. They're about the best power per dollar.
@@WhirlyBloke Oh that’s perfect, thank you very much for that.
Can’t wait to see what quad your using it for now 👍🏽😁
😀Thanks for watching.
Whirly Bloke thanks for posting 👍🏽
would love to see a field pack DIY video
Man this looks so professional
Thanks.
How much current we can draw?
How much time it takes to recharge?
Thanks 4 an insightful viD Mr., greets from Denmark
You are very welcome
could you do a 6s pack with wiring but using 12 18650 batteries......thanks
I've discovered that there is also a 21700 type Li-Ion battery, that would be ideal as it is just between 1 and 2 packs of 18650 cells. It then weighs less then 2 of these packs, while delivering somewhere around 4000 mAh of current.
Nice. I've been using the VTC6 recently which are very good.
Nice channel! I just bought a Iflight Chimera 7 and couldn't find a lithium ion pack that was big enough. I will try building my own!
Go for it.
Excellent tutorial
Lets hope there is a 2nd part
( Efficiency Test) Thanks
On its way. Thanks for watching
Hello sir.i made the project but i have a problem.when i put the maximum power on the motors the red light of the receiver blink and shuts down ,do you have any idea why this happening?thank you for your time
My next project, brilliant! Thank you for this I need long range batteries for my 8" and I think I can accomplish this with your video
Nice.
I also have an 8 incher. But my drone is only 5“
Thanks for this informative video!
Glad it was helpful!
Nicely done man looks professional 👍keep it up cheers 🍻
Thanks, will do!
Great tutorial as usual Dave, very neat job. Love the label. Cheers mate
Thanks.
Professional build as always.
Thanks. and thanks for watching.
don't you think the maximum discharge rate of 6.8a is a bit too low? or is that not that important if you fly a bit more "calmly"?
These are for long range cruising and not acro so the discharge C rating is not too much of a problem.
Doesn't the quad use a lot more discharge rate than 2C? You had with your first test 20 min flight time (other Video) which is on average already 3C (dunno how much capacity was left). Shouldn't this be bad for the battery?
Not at all. The battery will only deliver what its capable of which is primarily limited by the internal resistance. Check the end of the video for the final voltages. You could run the Lithium Ion cells to a lower end voltage, but it affects the long term life.
@@WhirlyBloke Thanks for your reply. Are you sure about the "limited by internal resistance"? This sounds differently: electronics.stackexchange.com/a/16981
Are the cells not damaged by soldering? Is zinc tape not good? And with a spot welder? thanks for the reply .
They won't get damaged if you solder quickly. I explain all this in detail in the video.
Awesome.. this video is one of it's kind.
Thanks.
hei.. lest say i already had 4pcs of murata 18650. and i want to make a 6s from it.. can i just buy 2pc new and combine it with my old 4pcs? is it safe? do i need to buy all new 6 pcs of murata to make one new 6s liion?
Great video..how would you connect / solder to make a larger pack , say like 10200mah ?
Just add more cells in parallel to get the wattage you need.
Nice wiring diagrams. Thanks
What would be the effect if my nickel strips are not thick enough? Would they just get very hot? Or would also the voltage drop? I have a 4S2P pack with SONY Murata VTC6, which should be able do deliver 30A*2 continuously, but I have a fast voltage on only 15-20A.
Tidy work, demystifying the Li-ion. Thanks 👍
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the video! But are 6.8Amps enough?
For long range cruising, yes. For racing or hard acro, no.
Totally awesome! That's all that needs to be said.
Thanks for watching.
@@WhirlyBloke You're welcome. Love the channel.
Epic build video! Can't wait to try it. Do you have to worry about the copper taps hitting the sides of the battery and causing a short?
Also, small detail but aren't the batteries 65mm tall so why do you need 105mm tall heat shrink? Are you sure that's what size you used? About to purchase so just wanted to double check if I'm missing something. Thanks Whirly Bloke!
Depends on the shrink ratio. You'll need to check the spec - it's tricky cos they usually specify % not absolute size.
How thick should my nickel strips be? I want to make a 4s2p with max 80A current
I LOVE YOU! i was thinking about using my vape 18650s cause i have at least 100 of them.. this could be good use for them. Would you share how heavy the pack is ? my 5" uses 180gram 6s pack, i bet its around 300... which is.. like if i had gopro and whatever strapped to quad
My build will be a different weight from yours cos it uses different manufacturers batteries. Just weigh one of your batteries and multiply it by the number of cells you plan using and add 5% for wires etc. That'll give you the approximate weight of your pack. Thanks for watching.
So this battery pack will output more than 20V. Can you connect it directly or is a dc to dc convertor necessary between the battery pack and the drone ?
25.2V fully charged, but I'm not sure why you'd want a dc to dc convertor.
Very nice! 💯🔥🔥🔥
Great channel Whirly. Where do you buy your cells?
Thanks. Sometimes Banggood, but mostly a small shop near me that supplies vaping stuff. They did me a great deal.
Which jumper is better to use for assembling Molicell 21700 42A - 6S
What thickness and width of the steel tape is suitable for peak loads of long-range quadcopters.
When assembling a battery pack for long-range quadcopters using Molicell 21700 42A - 6S cells, the most common choice for the battery contacts is copper or nickel-plated copper. Copper has a high electrical conductivity and is a good thermal conductor, which helps with heat dissipation during high-current discharge. Nickel plating can help to prevent corrosion and improve the contact resistance.
It is important to note that the choice of metal for the battery contacts is only one factor to consider when designing a battery pack for quadcopters. Other important factors include the layout and arrangement of the cells, the type and quality of the insulation used, and the overall construction of the pack. It is recommended to consult with an experienced battery pack designer or engineer to ensure that your battery pack is safe, reliable, and optimized for the specific needs of your quadcopter.
Nice pack. Wonder if 26650 batteries will make more powerful ones...
They are heavier. Twice the capacity, doesn't give you twice the flight time cos they are heavier. It doesn't scale like that.
@@WhirlyBloke I see. Thank you.
I'm designing a 7-inch machine. I make a pack like this too. No need to put protective electronics in it?
No. It's fast discharge and you'll be charging with a balance charger. Looking after your batteries in FPV is very manual process.
C reting?
Nice video!!!
Thanks for watching.
How many amperes is it? How many kilometers will an electric bicycle run with it?
Not for use on an electric bike I'm afraid.
what battery charger are you using to charge these please?
with those batteries only able to pull 4.8amps was it ok to fly on such a big quad.
Great for cruising. That's the whole point of it. Thanks for watching.
This cells only have 2c of discharge rate, why you use this?
nice1 very good. what was the total weight of it in the end ?
Thanks. I can't remember the weight off hand, but it was around 300g.
I was thinking of using inr2170 cells to make little 1s batteries for my mobula7 tinywhoop. Not really sure how many amps the whoop pulls though. The cells are 4800mah and rated for like 30a or something. Do you think it would be okay? On 1s, i doubt the whoop would draw too much, but idk
Let me know how it goes.
do you think copper de-soldering wick is good for connecting the individual cells?
I don't think that's a good idea. You can buy nickel strip from Amazon and it's cheap amzn.to/3Ldeaet
Question, when you charge: Select Lion, 4s, balance charge (since the capacity of the 4s is 3400 mAH) why isn't the current set at 3.4, you said 1.5. Is the charge rate different for Lion compared to Lipo because Lion can not discharge and recharge fast like Lipos can?
You have to read the manufactures spec. The NCR16850 recommended charge current is 1.6A and the end point is 4.2v.
Great video! Clarifying question that I haven't been able to find an answer to...fully charged, this will be at 25.2V, correct? (4.2V X 6 = 25.2V). Why are you using 3.8V to come up with labeling this battery at 22.8V? Just want to be sure I understand the math before I charge one of these at my own risk! Thank you!
That's the nominal voltage.
Great video! I have a doubt about the balance leads. So the red goes to the positive and the black cables goes to each negative of the cells? In one of your cells there is a black balance lead just in the middle of the nicketl connection between positive and negative, could you explain me why? Thanks in advance !
Thanks. Check my community page for wiring details th-cam.com/users/WhirlyBlokecommunity
What is C rate?
Do the batteries need to be completely flat before soldering them?
No. Just be careful not to sort anything out. Only do this if you're comfortable with it.
Hello !
I see a lot of packs that are built without BMS. In your case, if one of the cells were to discharge faster than another, how would it be detected? Isn't there a risk of explosion without BMS to check the voltage during the flight?
Thank you in advance for your answer
A BMS is not required in this type of RC application. If the overall pack voltage drops below and average of 3.3V or whatever is set in the flight controller, the quad will prompt to land and eventually failsafe. Also, these are charged using a balance charger and it's usual to check cell voltages and internal resistance before each charge cycle, so you're monitoring for any problems. A BMS is normal required for applications like electric bikes etc
@@WhirlyBloke I see. Thank you very much for this very quick response
And thank you for this quality content, good luck for the future.
Thank you so much for this Video! Also the very detailed description is very useful! I'm looking forward to maybe build one of these things! :)
Go for it, but just take care and wear safety goggles.
@@WhirlyBloke Yes, thanks!
I have just bought a set of Samsung nr18650s with 1500 milliamps. Will the charge rate still be 1.6 amps?
Thanks Ben
You need to look at the specs for that cell. Each manufacturer is slightly different.
Thankyou il have a look
I am dumbfounded that some pilots give up and will not recommend this cell technology. KababFPV can even fly a 1S quadcopter on a single cell.
Li-ion have a place. Not to be ignored.
Hi Whirly one question. What are the thickness and width of the nickel strip? Thank you
It's 0.2mm. I salvaged this from an old MacBook power supply, but you can use anything similar.
Hi I need help my jjrc 12 batter a toasted . wonder if any one done kit or set pack for this drone ? To fit in on package.. Please help
Are there any heat/cooling issues with this pack when you fly it for extended periods of time? Also are the balance leads needed? (trying to save weight)
There are no overheating issues. Try to to Sony VTC6 is equivalent 18650 cells if you can. More expensive, but better power per dollar.
Hi. I wanted to ask a quick question regarding Amp rating on 18650 cells. I'm looking at the Sony VTC6 3000mah 20A. However there is a Sony VTC5A 2500mah 25A, they both weigh the same (give or take a gram). Do you think the higher Amp rating is worth the drop in mah ? Let's say in a situation at longer range where you need a sudden punch out to recover video, do you think the extra 5A on the VTC5A would really make that much difference ? I understand these packs aren't for aggressive punch outs, i'm just curious if that extra power available would help. Thanks.
VTC6 cells are probably the best balance of internal resistance and power available.
@@WhirlyBloke Excellent. I was hoping the VTC6 was the 'winner'. Based purely, of course, on more mah. Thanks.
1. You can not solder on a 18650 cell. You will definitely damage the part of the battery under the - anode. (The + cathode is often spaced away from the chemicals, so possibly no damage). So do not do it. Use a point welder instead. The weld happens in milliseconds, and does not warm the inside of the battery. 2. Do NOT package the battery pack into insulating foam. If you draw high power, the battery will overheat, and be damaged.
In general I agree with you, but this really only applies to mass produced packs. Spot welding will inject less heat into the cell, but my reflow solder approach is the best way if you don't own a welder. If you choose the right cells (these NCR18650's I used were not perfect cos they are higher internal resistance, but they were lying around and free) heat build up is minimal, especially if you let them cool properly after a flight before charging them.The massive benefits of thin foam is for damage protection - ally cases would be better though. I've been using building and using these type of packs for 3 years with no issues. I really should revisit this to cover my latest 21700 packs which are leagues better.
@@WhirlyBloke nice! If the curent isn´t to high and the packs gets only one flight probably heat isn´t a problem. I´ll mybe try someday a pack with those 21700 for 6S or something similar. I have seen that peak current can be as far as twice the specs when cooling properly each cell using 3D printed frames. But for that you need a 3D printer xD...
@@ficosk8 Agreed. The 21700 is a better choice these days and it's what I use on all my long range pack now.
@@WhirlyBloke 🤩 super 👌🏼 and how much current are you getting out of your cells? Around 35A or more?
Very informative and helpful video. Thanks 🤓
Thanks for watching and the feedback.
Another awesome video
Glad you enjoyed it
is it rechargeable? why did you not put bms on it?
It doesn't need a BMS if you charge with a balance charger.
Don't it heat ?? Or is the temprature their lower compared to mine with 30°C AVERAGE daily.
I ordered the same battery and they heat up real fast, just gave me 4 mins of flight time until it heated up and reaiatance kicked in and drone dropped out. But voltage comes back to normal after some timw
I don't have any heat problems with any of my packs. Try Sony VTC 6 18650 cells. They work really well.
What is a Ampere of your esc ? I think because I use 30A esc maybe that is the problem.
So as a newby should I even have to consider getting lipos? Im expecting my first fpv to arrive in a week from China and I havent bought any batteries yet. Im leaning more towards cruising , not racing...
Liion are really just for cruising, if you want to flips or some punches you need to go with a lipo.
Do you have a quad yet?
Cruising normally we use a 7inch prop frame and for Freestyle or racing 5inch or less.
It really depends on what you want from your quad.
What is its discharge rate? for each cell.. or complete pack...thanks for video :)
Like all Lithium Ion cells the NCR18650 has nowhere near the same C rating as LiPos. These cells are specs at 2C, but other 18650 cells are much better - like the Sony VTC6.
@@WhirlyBloke Thanks :) need to get higher C battery
@@AkshayTravelFilmsDefinitely for anything other than light acro or long range cruising, Lipos are the way to go. But if you want long range/duration then Lithium Ion, especially 6S is the way to go. And you you need way less C rating than you think. Check out these videos that are using 4S Lithium Ion packs th-cam.com/video/LqTx4ei3Rhw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/on_Y57qkz94/w-d-xo.html
@@WhirlyBloke Thanks buddy... You are gem❤️
4:13 what thickness copper strip do you recommend?
I want to make 6S pack using 21700 cells
I've used that nickel strip from Amazon on my latest 21700 packs. Works fine, but I am using a cheap spot welder now cos I make lots of them and it's much quicker.
Question? If a single cell has a discharge amp rating of 5A, and you put 6 of these cells together in series as shown, will the total discharge rate be 30A or 5A?
In series it will be 5A.
If you put 6 cells in parallel (6p) you will get 30A.
@@SergyFPV Thats what I thought, its just that 5A seems very low, if you fly too aggressively will it damage the battery?
@@mitchpalmer721 voltage battery will fall and battery will become hot , never good for lifetime.
You can choose better liions cell with high discharge like Sony vtc6 ( 3000mah /20Amperes) or Sony Vtc5a (2500Mah/25 amperes) who are the best in 18650 size i think.
@@SergyFPV Would you say the battery he is using are adequate enough if you are just flying for flight time and taking it easy? Thanks!
Subbed on this for sure. Thanks man, good vid. Gonna do this right away.
Thanks for the sub!
I think it's a cool project but to be honest I don't feel safe directly heating on top of li-ion batteries.
I would rather get a battery box that can holds 18650s and call it a day, not only it could reduce the heat damaging the batteries, you can also swap battery once some battery died.
I know that there are proper tools for making joints for batteries, but I also know that they're really expensive compare to plain old soldering.
But anyway, great video and a great idea for making a battery pack.
Just a personal comment tho.
Yep only do this if you're 100% cpnfident. I've made at 20 of these over the last year. You need to be careful.
Tons of people are making these packs for drills, power screwdrivers, lawn equipment, quads of course. It's not black magic.
Too much weight making a case. Potential for bad connections that limit current more than a properly soldered/tack welded joint. Crashes mean scattering cells everywhere potentially.
Soldering them and securing them together solidly is the best option and likely the most light weight.
Great video. I'm waiting the batteries to make my own 6s lion packs. I've ordered the Samsung INR 3000mah 30Q That should have 20amp and a low internal resistance similar to the Sony vt50 I've red on other comments. Let's see how they will perform! Plan is to use those packs on 7inch quad and into an ar 900 fixed wing.
Thanks. Let me know how it goes. Thanks for watching.
You just charge as a lipo 3400mah 1.6a?
Correct. If you check the manufactures spec you'll find the end voltage is 4.2v and the optimum charge current is 1.6 amps.
What is the lowest amp battery u can use
Use whatever you need. It's about what voltage and current you require for your application. Remember V=IR. Thanks for the feedback.
I have a 6s quad. Should I make a 4s li ion or a 6s li ion?
6s. The voltages are the same.
Have you ever measured how much current you could get out of this pack? I'm close to following this guide, just waiting on a couple mor deliveries.
The C rating is low on these cells, so peak current isn't huge, but these are really designed for cruising not acro.
@@WhirlyBloke I've not had time to flight test my pack yet, but I did power laptop with it yesterday. Sustained 120W for 22 minutes.
@@WhirlyBloke I got my first flight test done - I matched your twenty minutes. My quad is a TBS Source One with 7" arms and tri-blade 7" props.
@@davidrgilson Awesome.
@@WhirlyBloke I posted a video with my flight, and gave you credit for my build :-) th-cam.com/video/XrO2pX8u4o4/w-d-xo.html
Hi how would I go about charging 6s with 5000mah?
Thanks
Recommended spec is 1.6A and the pack is 3400mAh so it's about 0.5C charge.
Hi bro
I have a quadcopter
With spec
Dji f450 Frame
Apm2.8 Fc
920kv motors
30a simonk esc
1045 propellers
M8n gps
Fsi6 tx and and rx
If I make a battery pack like u will it work for me pls reply
The nasty lipo are wasting my money as i just entered into the hobby iam nit having that much money with me
Love from india
Kindly glue cells together so that they do not pit against each other at the end where the 2 cells are not connected. This is to avoid breaking the thin insulation so that the cells short circuit.
Fair point. But I've built about 20 of these packs and used glue and capon tape. They both work the same but the glue is messy and it's more difficult the replace a dud cell. Thanks for watching.
@@WhirlyBloke I put some thin strips of thin, but strong card between the cells. I once dropped a very tiny ball of molten solder that fell between two adjacent cells - very big sparks did happen. After seeing that i decided that relying on the two very thin battery wraps for insulation was not so wise, i would not trust them to not rub through in the event of a crash, or even dropping the pack on the floor. A few thin strips of card does not add much more than a couple of grams in the weight of the pack. It gives me peace of mind.
Can you have a look on Liitokala batteries?
I think of buying Liitokala 21700 cells 4000mah 10C discharge, these cells weight 67g.
sounds for me like a good choice for a 4S 4000mah liion battery for a 7inch?
Or the 5000mah 21700 with 5C discharge rate for also 67g..
Otherwise the NCR18650B from Liitokala are 4300mah weight 48g and 2C discharge
Do you have any experience with Liitokala?
They're not available in the UK. Feel free to send me some and I'll take a look.
@@WhirlyBloke here in Italy neither..
Need to order them from china, will take a few months.
But looking at the characterestics which would you think are the best choice?
@@CorrexPoE Liitokala 21700 ( yellow color) are 15 Amps , i used 4s 4000 mah for my 5 inch for cruise flight of 15 mns
thank you very much!
You're welcome!
Adding two cells or more in parallel gives you a bigger Ah.
And lots more weight.
How do you Charge this Pack? Can i just use my normal Lipo Charger and set it up to Li Ion?
All the charging details are covered in the video.
do they make lions more than 3400 mah?
Yes, check out 21700 cells
how long are your battery straps?
Pretty long, about 300mm. I don't remember where I bought them.
@@WhirlyBloke I always seem to buy some that are too long or too short. I plan on flying 6s2P this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes
how can I charge this? is it safe to charge overnight? I mean, is there a protection?
Just use a regular balance charger. Those cells are recommened to charge at 1.6A which is 0.5C. I don't recommend leaving any charging batteries unattended. Thanks for watching.
@@WhirlyBloke Can I use mobile phone battery instead 18650 for this?
@@vindulaherath6400 nope
@@WhirlyBloke but both 18650 and phone batteries are li-ion right? 😬
what gauge are the copper strips? Thank you.
Probably .2-3mm. It's what I had in the scrap bin.
That is a great idea!
Thanks for the feedback.
I know you have the DJI setup (I've seen your other video, thank you)...have you tried this battery on a quad with an Air Unit? Did you experience any issues? I can fly straight and level and I completely get that you can't treat these li-ions like a Li-Po...but at about 60% throttle my quad shuts down and crashes using this exact build. Have you or anyone else experienced this? I fly a 7" Kakute F7 AIO FC (6S capable) that has a dedicated DJI plug on it so I know it's regulated voltage.
I have the same issue on a crocodile 7". I can't even get out of a hover without the quad dropping to the ground. have you had any luck troubleshooting your issue? I have just come to the conclusion that the current demand is to high for the Panasonic 18650B???
@@DavidChavez-sj5bq I copied this design exactly and it didn't work. Not a reliable battery. It's a great theory but the technology does not support this right now.
@@pattywaktdiy4175 thanks for the reply. The technology exists, Its just the wrong choice of cell. The current demand exceeds the batteries capability, which causes extreme voltage sag causing the drone to drop. An 18650 with a higher current rating should resolve the issue. There's a reason auline batteries use sony vtc5a and vtc6 cells. they're rated for 30amps + continuous.
Thought balance leads last wire ground.. i wish I could take 1s batteries and make me a hv 4s 300mah
This is 6 x 1s batteries that is exactly that.
хорошее видео! Мне понравилось. все просто и понятно! Спасибо!
Спасибо за просмотр.