Sorry if this video isn't exactly what you were expecting... but I just had to level with you guys. TL;DW - TotK videos will be much rarer on the channel going forward, with the new focus being legacy Zelda games and other game franchises entirely. ... On that note, what franchise do you like best besides Zelda? P.S. Thank you for understanding... or at least for being here. Much love to all of you.
We are between a korok and a hard place. Tears of the Kingdom failed to fuel the long-term-passion we hoped for, and now we must wait many years before we can get another scoop of Zelda gameplay. Your decision is understandable! And there are lots of other Nintendo fanchises I would love to see you take a crack at. Also: "Hello I am still watching this."
It would be so awesome if he get into Xenoblade. There is so much depth to those games and so many theories around them. Definitely a franchise that shows far more respect to story than Zelda.
It seems you're not alone, every zelda youtuber have significantly toned down the amount of zelda theory videos, because yeah, there isnt much to off of anymore
speaking from experience, us smaller tubers don't wanna do many videos because there's a significant view drought, I feel like there's a lotta content I wanna do atm, but juggling a full-time job and YT means that it can't be a priority since there's no guarantee of a video doing good like it would've in February. Plus the amount of negativity in the community atm makes doing theory videos VERY unappealing, why do theory videos when all people wanna do is rant at you about why it's wrong? Just a small zeldatubers take! :) @@passacookie
Views are crazy low as well compared to what they once were. TotK has kind of been the nail on the coffin for the Zelda Fan base as the actual fans seem to not care about this game at all.
@@thediesel1241there's definitely been a changing of the guard, it seems. From the old fan base to those that joined in botw or totk. There's decent viewership for playthroughs of this game--makes sense, there's an infinite amount of challenge runs you can do, but Lore? Theory? Story analysis? WYSIWYG--What you see is what you get, with this game. There are no burgeoning mysteries begging to be dived into--and those that previously existed either came to light very bluntly, or were denied any possibility of continuing
Tears definitely destroyed the lore seeking attribute about Zelda. The Zonai being the first king of Hyrule completely ruins the stories of the past Zelda and they did that to establish that it’s a reset of the timeline
Yeah that and how they half pretend BOTW didn't happen. It pisses me off how many things from that game are simply just gone in TOTK. It's pretty hard to talk about lore when they pull stuff like that. For example in Dark Souls thousands of years pass between each game yet there are many things that reference people, events or concepts from the previous games. Meanwhile in the last 2 Zelda games not even a decade passed yet absolutely nothing remained from the divine beasts or the guardians
With you 100%. I have never felt more like Nintendo doesn't care about the lore of this franchise, and it hurts. Even if you guys were all still making lots of lore vids about TOTK, I'm not sure if I could watch them without feeling angry that the lore doesn't matter anymore. Hope you can find new topics for future vids that you're really inspired by.
@phoenixdowner The multiple entrances idea is brilliant and would totally work in this style of game. I didn't even realize I wanted it until you pointed it out, but you're right that was definitely a missed opportunity.
I couldn't agree more. Sure, I want someone somewhere to make a logical connection that shows that this thought process about BotW and TotK isn't necessary, but right now it feels like it's needed.
Genuinely summarised my thoughts perfectly here. I understand that the story has never been a priority of the Zelda games but that doesn’t mean you need to disregard the lore entirely. My biggest issue with this franchise is that the concept of all these stories taking place in the same continuity over such a mind bogglingly long time is so insanely cool to me but it’s just completely wasted because they’re always so focused on the NEW lore for each game while pretty much completely ignoring all that came before
Story isn’t a priority? Go tell that to Zeltik’s hour long retrospective about the story of each mainline Zelda game. Story is a major appeal of the series for many fans. Myself included.
@@samueltitone5683 story is barely a priority in totk. i have no idea how he managed to stretch that barebones plot to a multi hour series but it doesn’t change the fact that it was dogshit. totk’s story has literally nothing going for it. zelda’s sacrifice is meaningless, ganondorf is just a generic villain with no real goal aside from stopping the good guys from being good, whereas in ww for example he’s written in a far more interesting way. it barely acknowledges the fact that it’s a direct sequel and the devs themselves stated they didn’t think about obvious questions that anyone who played botw would ask. and not to mention the copy and paste cutscenes. you can like totk but it’s story is aggressively mediocre at best.
It isn't that plot isn't there, it's that answers are frustratingly not there... Like if you went to Romans 102 in college and only learned about the Greeks, you're still learning, just not what you expected or wanted to learn.
They can't disregard it since they create the lore. Totk is canon. It's not any of these TH-camrs leeching off Nintendos developers and their games creating Zelda, it's Nintendo. They create lore, they create the story, and you have to eat it. You don't decide.
@@greenlight2323 I don't think that's fair, personally I'm on the fence because as much as I understand the writers' approach and am able to enjoy each game for its strengths, sometimes the "gameplay/concept first and story second" does present benefits for that gameplay but underlines how much untapped potential remains for the setting. To paraphrase Bandit, BOTW was sparse in storytelling but after finishing the game I really appreciated that it kept simple, focused on exploring a mysterious world, while leaving a lot open to tie nostalgic lore and symbolism with this new state of Hyrule in a distant future. TOTK ups the ante in scope, time frame and epic events but avoids anything that would describe it concretely relative to other games. It relies on the same structure, it's "story second" but for a concept better suited in BOTW, while not really doing anything with continuity and these distant connections we've theorized for 6 years. Aonuma also confirmed they don't want to worry about what they've done in old games, so in that sense the new canon disregards what some of us would like to see explored more. I think that while no game will satisfy everyone in every aspect, in story as well as gameplay there are ways to make new stuff that appeals to long time fans without alienating newcomers.
Zonai we’re never supposed to be a barbaric tribe at all. That entire lineage was the result of a combination of intentional revisionist history and sun setting their time in the kingdom which meant that their history and legacy faded into obscurity. What was always the case and revealed in TotK is that certain powers that be intentionally covered over Zonai ruins to make them appear more primitive for their protection/safety and to fulfill a destined loop. The barbarian armor was never explicitly Zonai and I love the Zelda team’s subversion/misdirection
@@hulkman245 nope, you’re taking some (understandable) leaps. The barbarian set is linked to a war-like tribe but they never make any connection to Zonai in BotW. They make literal reference to a Zonai people in that game and if they wanted the barbarian set to be tied to the Zonai and maintain the flavor text they would have called it Zonai armor, either in English or in any of the other game’s languages. The Zonai excerpt from creating a champion was simply taking the barbarian armor descriptive text and extrapolating it to make inferences.
This video helped me realize how i felt about totk. I really enjoyed playing it, and i love the personality they gave zelda. And her relationship with Link. But there was definitely a feeling of something...lacking in ToTK. And you hit the nail on the head. Anyway! Yeah, i love the channel and will definitely keep watching!
Probably because zelda and link... dont interact. In the intro and the ending is basically it (and the memory where he draws the master sword but Zelda just talks to the deku tree)
@@lulu_TheWitchBoy yeah like majoras mask. Except those games arent about princess zelda? The main quest in this game is find zelda, link and zelda should have more than 2 interactions
This was a good take and much needed. They really said "scrap the lore, everything is Zonai." Completely understand your decisions for the channel moving forward.
And they didn't even give us any meaningful information on the Zonai either. It's like they saw the videos on Zelda theorists talking about the Zonai ruins, saw how many fans loved it, and decided to make that the next main plot but without knowing why fans like the Zonai lore in the first place.
@@dhLord64 A series where the core fans were so obsessed with the lore and timeline placement it pressured Nintendo to make their own official timeline for the 25th anniversary. Yeah, Zelda fans don't care about lore.
SO GLAD that everyone's finally starting to talk about this and MAN a longer rant would have been welcome! I was so excited to make TOTK content after release - ended up making like one jokey timeline video but despite the jokes I COULDNT HIDE MY GENUINE ANNOYANCE at the game. honestly such a shame for all of us, but its nice to know its a common opinion :")
@@jakedematteo2172 believe what you want. Totk is a game I and many others wanted to love, but we aren’t afraid to call things out when they’re made poorly. If you accept everything that’s given to you, all you’ll get is low effort stuff. We do not want the next Zelda to be low effort again.
Fujibayashi's excuse for the Sheikah technology is absolutely embarrassing, and he should be ashamed of himself. It's a clear indicator more than anything else that the Zelda team has opted out of bothering with lore and story. I don't know about anyone else, but "it all just disappeared and nobody in Hyrule cares, don't worry about it" is a genuinely insulting response to a completely reasonable question that ANYONE who played BotW would more than likely have. It's truly pathetic, and while I try not to be so vitriolic about something like this as I have in this comment, TotK is also the most recent game in the ZELDA franchise, and THE fastest-selling game in the company's history. It, as well as the people who wanted it to be good, deserve so much better than an excuse.
I wish it would go back to awesome and unique puzzle solving dungeons with badass bosses but in an open world setting. Plus, the charm of all the wacky characters around hyrule and deeper scarier sections (yes, im someone who was let down by the gibdos). Also the lore and stories are the best part of the Zelda series and withought it it feels like a shell even though its still super fun and innovative.
I really loved the theory the Zeldatubers cooked from the trailers that wove in the story, about Ganondorf being held in stasis by Sheikah mummification to halt the reincarnation cycle, how it might focus on Ganondorf more sympathetically/tragically.. I was so let down by the plot as a whole. How Ganondorf was just a rando Ganondorf, how he straight up laughs off being tortured for 10K years. Don't even need to talk about the botched Zonai and Zeldragon thread. (sigh) Oh, as for non Zelda stuff, I've been obsessed with Outer Wilds for uh, three years now. That's the bible for an open-world game and story done well, imo
This pretty much summarizes how a lot of people feel about totk. The memory of the first totk teaser is forever burned into my soul because of how much I wanted to kill Mummy Ganon lol. But totk irl? The video game equivalent of “no i will not elaborate because idk what i just said”. They explained nothing. They hinted at nothing. The sages didn’t even have names and faces, just a repeating npc dialogue. The stones had no official name. The zonai STILL WEREN’T THERE. Just a massive disappointment overall and I’ve definitely tempered my expectations on nintendo games as a while going forward.
I am not tempering my expectations, I think it's time to do the opposite tbh. TotK was the only first party release from Nintendo so far this year to disappoint me - Pikmin 4? Mario Wonder? Fantastic, fantastic experiences. It's shocking how mundane and repetitive TotK ended up when their other IPs are still taking leaps forward
@@Charnutboy you make a great point because the only two nintendo specific games I bought this year were totk and pokemon violet which is pretty much my problem. I’ve heard nothing but great things about wonder and pikmin 4, I just haven’t spent the money yet. It definitely upset me how empty and repetitive the game is plus no dlc to even attempt to fill in the gaps??? Cooled me off completely.
I'm really happy that you posted this. I've kind of struggled to get through ToTK since it released. Not that it's not fun, but I found myself really disappointed by the lore. I think there was a way to write a story that would have appeased longtime fans and lore enthusiasts without isolating newer players, and it was a little disappointing to me that they took the path that they took.
@@namaenomore7831 this always blows my mind. They replaced Raviolis gale with several fusable items on shields, ascend, and customizable vehicles while adding Tulin for even more mobility! Revalis gale was essential due to lack of movement options but in TotK we have SO MANY movement options, it’s much better IMO
It really is a great game, but I have not finished it yet either. I do enjoy it, but I think it's too much in a few ways. It probably doesn't help that I'm not in my 20s anymore, but I might go shrine hunting( I really want the heros aspect), but I'll find a couple and call it quits for a couple days. Also, BOTW left so many things to speculation, and TOTK gave a lot of answers, and imo, confusing ones.
Honestly I think being able to recognize the flaws in ToTK's writing as a criticism of the game really speaks to your dedication to the Zelda franchise. With that said, I also think branching out beyond just one franchise is an overall good thing to do. While I did initially come here because I enjoyed your Zelda videos, I personally thought your videos on games other than Zelda, such as Metroid and Elden Ring, were also very well done and brought a nice change of pace to the channel. Anyways, I really enjoy video game lore videos, so I'm sure I'll be sticking around.
I really dont think the problem had anything to do with our expectations. TOTK just really didnt want to have anything to do with even its own predecessor. Its bizarre how much of BOTW was just wiped clean as if it never existed. You gotta wonder what was even the point of making it a sequel, because the 2 games feel like alternate universes rather than an ongoing story. BOTW was always so vague with its story and connection to the Zelda lore and now with TOTK it feels like we know why. Because it doesnt and they never cared about that games story in the first place.
Watching this video again. I dreaded totk for years before release because botw was the writing on the wall about how much Nintendo didn't care about lore for the new era of zelda. Wind Waker cared about lore, Skyward Sword cared about lore. BOTW didn't care in the SLIGHTEST. So I dreaded totk and could not for the life of me understand why theorists were excited. It has really sucked, but I'm glad we are all in this together now where I felt pretty alone the past 4 years. I don't think it was possible to tie up the loose ends of botw because they carelessly left just so many. Now that Nintendo has their money, I can finally be excited for the next zelda game, because we can emphasize that botw and totk just weren't it for us.
This video really put into words everything I've been thinking since the game's release. I was totally enamored by Breath of the Wild and couldn't put it down, then I started to vaccuum up content from you, Zeltik, NintendoBlackCrisis, MonsterMaze, etc. But after beating Ganon in TotK, I almost immediately set the controller down and moved on. I'm sure it is partly also because of how tedious and sometimes outright obnoxious the build mechanics were (my favorite parts of TotK were the shrines that _didn't_ require building), but also exactly what you said in the video regarding weird and frankly uninteresting story and lore decisions by the dev team, and I think that the fact that close to zero content has come out of the Zelda community at all, not just you, proves that feeling. I'm stoked to see what's next for you all! Hopefully we get the next game in a new setting and in sooner than 6 years dev time.
Zeltik’s opinion in his recent video was that TOTK had the worst story of any 3D Zelda title. I’m not remotely surprised that Zelda-tubers felt let down. It’s always ok to feel how you feel, but in this case, you’re definitely not alone. Clarification: I did note 3D here. There were a lot of 2D games that Zeltik considered to have much worse stories. (Watched the whole thing. No franchises to recommend but interested to see what everyone else says.)
Honestly I just think that's a ridiculous argument. Its hardly the worst story of any 3D Zelda title ever. I thought the story was pretty good overall and far better than BOTW. Its nothing particularly amazing to write home about, but its not bad. The problem is they butchered the series lore, which is why Zelda tubers are pissed. I gave up on the lore of the series a long time ago because they never liked to keep things consistent at all.
@@JaidynReiman I’m just making an observation that not everyone liked it. Zeltik and Bandit both acknowledged that their opinions were likely to be controversial.
@@JaidynReiman I would definitely rate it as the worst in the series. It tramples over what was established previously in the same way the star wars sequels trampled over the OT. "I gave up on the lore of the series a long time ago because they never liked to keep things consistent at all." - I think this is probably a lot of people's first experience with this in the franchise. If you're like me you've been dealing with this since at least wind waker.
I felt the exact same way. It was very emotional, to me, to see how little the developers cared about continuity. There was just... Such an immensity of groundwork laid for creating something so much more beautiful and thoughtful. In my opinion, it wasn't even the core story itself that was the problem, it was how it was integrated into the world. All the tension was almost immediately released after we figure out was is going on with Zelda so early on. There were no surprises. There was also so much recycled stuff (music!?) that it ended up being a total retread. And finally, I would have traded all of the depths for having more of Hyrule rebuilt. I swear if castle town was rebuilt it would have added a bunch more to the game. TOTK was one of the most disappointing games I've ever experienced.
Agreed, I feel like this game had the potential to really dig into the themes that had their groundwork laid as far back as Skyward Sword and even to some extent Twilight Princess, this endless, cyclical conflict between these characters, forced to live and fight again and again through the will of forces beyond their understanding. That alone is fascinating in its thematic implications, and with what they did in Breath of the Wild with Zelda’s struggle to unlock her power and the fading might of the mastersword, it really seemed like they were moving in a direction to address those aspects, and then this game came along, bulldozed half the established lore, and left those loose threads out to dry. There was so much they could’ve done, but they just… didn’t. Tragic really. But hey, at least we’ve got that MajorLink fan series that actually does give a shit about the established lore and has its entire purpose rooted in addressing those potential thematic angles that I now believe Nintendo is simply not ballsy enough to follow through with.
I personally never had a problem with the game but I get why people might. I personally never care about the story if the gameplay itself is fun and the gameplay is possibly the most fun any zelda game up to this point and tbh, Nintendo has always operated with gameplay>story.
@@thebleachbartender1312 I'm fine with saying I loved the gameplay to death. I'd still recommend TOTK to folks just because its fun as hell. But I will still just as passionately bitch about what they did to the lore and how the story fell flat.
@@thebleachbartender1312 I'm tired of this "gameplay over story" bs. We've had Zelda games that had better stories and much more compelling characters than TotK before.
I 100% agree with you. I feel like we got more theories out of the trailers than from the game itself. If they just would have connected the lore more with previous games and not just Zonai everything, it would have been much more interesting. And we don't even know much more about the Zonai. We know they were magical and advanced furries that came from somewhere and they "founded" Hyrule. What happened to Hylia? What happened to the kingdom that had to be founded again with NO recollection of a previous anything? Where did the speech from Zelda in BOTW about Link (adrift in time, skyward bound, etc.) Come from? I finished TOTK with way more questions that answers.
I remember being escited to see all the connections, especially with skyward similarities being the dragons, the ark dungeon and sandship down to the shape of the stones being similar to relics in the silent realm but it was almost jarring having zonai put forward so immediately as well. I had a great time (not done yet) but I was really hoping with a DLC of sorts we'd see more of the depths itself more info on the sky islands and relations with the older things. I still think there's things to talk about with how it relates to the series but I think you either have to make some connection or have it be more distinct on it's own. botw and took still had so many similarities from the older series but only became more distinct whilst holding on to those aspects if that makes sense
the game was ripe for connections to skyward sword. being that ss is my favorite zelda, I was super hyped for the game thinking they would have at least SOMETHING connecting it to ss. but then I played it and... nothing. it barely even connected to the game that literally took place canonically just years before it (where tf did all the sheikah tech go???). would've blew my mind if skyloft was one of the great sky islands or something...
I appreciate your rant, and honestly, I kinda wish you did rant more! It's good to get it out and you'd be surprised how many people actually agree with you. What i noticed, especially from most of the prevalent theorist, all of you share the same feelings. I think that says something considering theorist are some of the people who delve the most into the lore. If most of yall are saying the same thing, I think that holds a lot of merit! Keep it up!
This is how I've been feeling too. You are the first Zelda youtuber to exually come with good critics about this and I'm here for it. I need my lore like the old times
Not the only one, Hyrule Gamer also has a video: "Are Zelda Games Losing Their Charm?" - have you watched? Zelda i think is losing many fans with BOTW and TOTK...
@@byksEBM But gaining so many, the popularity metric is a tough one... Zeltik just ranked Zelda stories, his list makes sense to me and TOTK sits near the middle. To me the game has too much good that outweighs the bad to the extent that I keep coming back despite repeating it doesn't deliver as well as BOTW, but it keeps underlying that too much of the world building and story telling is underwhelming. The solace is how untapped potential can carry over into the next game, but Nintendo unpredictably iterates safely or does 180 turns, and while we're definitely getting more open world it's unclear if we'll see a version of TOTK better realized. I was already sure this would be a proper implementation for their earlier vision for Skyward Sword, but that implied a proper sky world which we didn't get. It's a matter of focus, adding two huge layers largely empty and/or repetitive, tons of caves and shrines only spreads their efforts and enables open world fatigue. Scale back to no more than BOTW's size, refine what's there, lean into some traditional elements but go wild for a modern implementation.
@@byksEBMthey’re losing fans I think we’re just disappointed that it didn’t have the story and lore we wanted but us old timers are going. To play the next Zelda game let’s be honest
You've basically said everything that was jumbled in my brain. There was so much potential for lore development and we were given more questions instead of answers with no promise of resolving anything. I'm still watching you, though. And my favorite game trilogy is Bioshock. 😊
Dude. 100% agree with you. I'm honestly relieved that you feel the same way on basically the entire franchise as I do because I'm not the only one. I was thinking that I'd have the same experience as botw where everyone said it was the best zelda game and I'm just over here like "it was fun but it didn't make ANY sense in lore". Like you said though, it was just vague ENOUGH to get away with not making sense.
hello, im still watching this i felt the same way playing the game. for a while i told my husband how disappointed i was. i love this series with my whole heart and was SO excited about this game and to be left disappointed left a bad taste in my mouth. you nailed it though 💕 thank you for posting this
The cinematics were appalling-I was shocked the third time I heard “Demon King? 😧 Secret Stone?? 😃” It felt like those were place holders that they just left in. Also yeah the new lore fell so flat for me. “Triforce? Goddesses? Nah: goat people with magic stones. That’ll throw ‘em for a loop!”
In defense of the cutscenes after you beat a temple, I think they did that because they (the devs) don’t know which dungeon you will go to first… but even then it’s pretty weird, like why didn’t they slightly change them after you beat 1 of them? I’m not saying it’s justified if you look at it like that, I don’t really like it either
@@Glitchyy07yes. The freedom of the game means you can't build a consistent story because you can't force the players to play the game in a specific order. Which I think is dumb. TotK is infinitely better than BotW, like BotW was the 60$ beta test for TotK
@@TwelveDaysofHalloween That's just silly and you know it. Plenty of open world games have criteria you have to fill out for different events to take place. There was 0 reason they even had to have these sages, let alone have them be completely dull while repeating the same lines of dialogue each time. Consider something like this, 1- they could completely circumvent the stupid ancient timeline they went with. There was no need for any of it, and they could've made a totally different story for Ganon's return. Forgoing that, they still *made* this, and could have put in the effort to actually make something of their story by gating content. Which brings me to 2 - You stick with the bones of the story as it is. 4 ancient sages, Rauru and his sister, boring as they might make the zonai. Get rid of the evil zelda sections, they're pointless and don't bring anything to the story beyond making it abundantly clear that Link has 0 interest in sharing what he clearly knows with anyone. Have slightly more specific cutscenes for each of the champions which revolve around the effects of the changes the gloom and whatnot have had on their regions. Have the shitty secret stones cutscene for your first champion, or maybe something slightly different if Link comes across the spirit sage first, and have a cutscene where Link sends a message to the remaining areas letting them know what he's learned. Give them each different cutscenes based on them knowing this information. Better yet, if resources are a problem in spite of how wildly successful BotW was and having 6 years of dev time, make the secret stone info a non voice acted unique cutscene. that occurs with whichever champion you meet first, then you don't even have to make 2 cutscenes for each new champion+sage. That's such a simple fix, it doesn't even require spending much more resources (some slightly new unique cutscenes, maybe don't even need new animations. Just have the sages talk with the champions about how they can prepare or maybe talk about their lives or friggin SOMETHING interesting. That and the cost to write some more scripts, one dude has to work a whole extra day for that ooooh nooo) And it makes the story infinitely more tolerable by not treating the player like they're mentally deficient. This doesn't fix the stupid way they destroyed the lore continuity and still leaves us with a pretty garbage story, but it fixes one of the huge glaring issues that rubs players the wrong way without removing the open world aspect. You gotta remember that the folks at Nintendo *made* this game, everything in the game is deliberately placed in some way. They didn't have to even make the story the way it is, the fact that they went this direction at all is frankly pretty disappointing cuz it's such shitty storytelling. I say this all as someone who's been enamored with the series since childhood, who knows that Zelda isn't necessarily about having a good story, who even had fun with TotK for its game mechanics. I didn't want my games treating me like a 6 month old when I was 5, and I'm sure a lot of the kids Nintendo's trying to appeal to would've found a lot more enjoyment too if the game wasn't this awful in the story department. Don't excuse this garbage, there's plenty of things that could've been done to avoid it or make it better.
@@TwelveDaysofHalloweenBotw was definitely no Beta test, it does several things better than TotK and has its own identity. I hate that phrase because it essentially diminishes everything Botw accomplished
@@MegaSpides honestly my main issue is the mysterious nature of the ancient champion has no payoff or personal task/hint, like one thing they could have done is give them 4 tasks to request of you that change the nature of their land's hazard, or maybe a quest in their depths section, as is each champion has one trip into the sky or depths... But neither really had both, and the Gerudo was the only one with most of it focused on the town itself instead of either... It would be nice to have had all 3 possible but only require one of them based on when you complete the quest.
I feel you put your finger on a lot of TotK's problems. Both in regards to lack of lore connections and us fans possibly having pushed our expectations too high etc. I hope this timeline will eventually either fit or time will soften the feeling we're missing so much. Good to see you're still here, and yes, so are we.
Sorry Bandit but we're going to need a full analysis on this! I agree with all your points, and I just felt exasperated playing it sometimes. I had to put it down multiple times, because actually I wasn't enjoying it. I completd it the other day and I must say it was a relief, which is really sad to me. I can revisit nearly every Zeda game with ease because they're fun, sadly I don't think this will be the case with Totk. So yeh we'll need that video :D bonus points if you can make it an hour long! Just kidding! Actually I'm not, an hour video would be amazing!
Nintendo sees fan theories and instead of surpassing the theories or leaning into them. They just throw everything out the window and say. Nothing matters. Please consume product. About damn time people saw this for what it was.
I think several people were hyped for TOTK for what *could* have been and naturally were disappointed when certain things were glossed over and new concepts were introduced that didn’t really go anywhere (pretty much what you said). I’ve stated in other videos how my disappointments were that things like the Divine Beasts being gone really didn’t have an explanation when they were such a crucial part of BotW. I know Nintendo likes to make games that can stand on their own and not depend on prequels, but I think it’s a disservice to the story they built in that game.
This game is the epitome of "refuses to elaborate". I loved the game itself but the way the lore was handled is so frustrating. Just one million potential questions with no answers given.
As a Lore addict, the BoTW/ToTk games completely dumped the lore and disregarded years and years of world building. Also they merc'ed the one interesting character
Bandit, if you ever want to make a long form critique on the game, I'm here for it. Also yeah, having this kill the momentum of tons of my favorite youtubers really sucks.
Def same here! Every time he said „I shouldn‘t continue this point“ I was like „yes, do it“😂 Would love to see a review one day Bandit :) Much love from Germany my guy👍🏼
I was shocked that TOTK did literally nothing with the three springs or dragons. I thought they would be central to the story. it just didn't care about these at all. It didn't care about the new areas it added either: the sky islands, Depths, caves, and dungeons. To me, I will remember it as the Zelda game that didn't really care about anything. It's the first mainline Zelda game that does not feel like a passion project.
The time travel aspect of TOTK seems to me like an attempt to be able to solve the various incongruities between all the different games and lore problems throughout. I think we'll have to wait for another game or two, maybe even the movie, to see what Nintendo actually thinks about the lore aspect of all of this.
it really is just uninteresting, i haven’t beaten the game and i was someone who got it on launch waiting in a big crowd outside gamestop… the letdown lore wise was tremendous, no triforce, no Hylia, no golden goddesses, barely any teases to anything zelda… it just felt like a letdown that everything was zonai. me personally i don’t like it at all. i was someone who really did not care when seeing zonai videos on youtube b4 totk released, the whole idea was interesting, like could they be the twili? or maybe some other tribe or group but no it was just this random new lore changing tribe that had nothing to do with anything zelda related at all, oh yeah and they made hyrule…? thank you nintendo changing everything for nothing.
I ranted about the exact same thing to my dad last night. We were both pretty dissapointed that BOTW and TOTK are basically reboots, and how they didn't really add anything to the main timeline.
The worst part is that this is "the new zelda and the foundation going forward". It's very much possible that we will never get any additions to the original lore ever again...
Thank you for making this video. I completely agree with everything you said. I felt this so much and I've been growing more and more dissatisfied with TotK and it's been more and more frustrating to see some creators ignoring these issues and just continuing making content on the game. Which is totally their right to do, and I'm glad they loved the game but it's really nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way about the game. So thank you for making this very cathartic video and I honestly would love to see a video of you ranting about the game for an hour or more.
The stuff about the Zonai was a breath of fresh air for me at least. I'll be honest, I was getting tired of hearing about the Triforce and the goddesses in what felt like almost every single Zelda installment before Breath of the Wild. I suppose that's why I have a soft spot for games like Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Majora's Mask, and Spirit Tracks because they hardly ever bring up the TriForce or the goddesses. In the Oracle games, the only time the TriForce makes its appearance is to transport Link to Labrynna/Holodrum, and in Majora's Mask and Spirit Tracks, the Triforce isn't mentioned whatsoever. Yes, TOTK brings up the very early events of Hyrule as a kingdom, but the story overall is its own thing and it just so happens that Ganondorf is the main villain.
I think the thing that ticks me off the most about ToTK (and BotW to an extent) is just how much Zelda doesn't get to be a character. In BotW, all we see is Zelda being conflicted and struggling in the face of an impending calamity, and she exists only in flashback and gets to do one thing. But that's okay, it's about Link waking up and finding her. But then TotK comes along and we get to see Zelda, and experience her in the game BRIEFLY, before she's immediately yoinked away to the past. Zelda had to struggle to understand her powers, lose Link, briefly suppress Ganon, be imprisoned for a hundred years, get saved, work on fixing Hyrule briefly, and then gets pulled to the past, has to deal with a crisis again, and then sacrifices her mind to become a dragon for thousands of years. She has one of the most miserable experiences as a character. Can my girl get to do something in real time for once? If we'd at least gotten to play as her in the flashback, that would have been better.
Princess Zelda is my favorite fictional character of all time and she's been done so dirty. I never expected her to be playable because let's not kid ourselves, the franchise doesn't have the best track record when it comes to women. But when I first booted up the game and explored the depths with her I got so excited. She was my companion! Alas, a few minutes in and she falls into a hole... The whole game I was looking for her, I was in denial. I thought "maybe she'll be my companion EVENTUALLY". But that moment never came. The closest thing to a "Zelda companion" the game has is that one Yiga clan member disguised as her on the Great Plateau.
Apparently the Triforce exists in TotK, extremely hidden. It’s in the Zelda’s Wish cutscene, on her hand that is creating the beams of light. Covered by said light. An editor removed that light and it revealed the triforce. The full triforce, on her hand. TotK screws up the lore of the series. That is a fact, no? Edit: Hello, I am still watching this. My favourite franchises other than Zelda: Xenoblade Ace Attorney
like fuyibayashi said, totk can play a long time after a destruction of hyrule or maybe in the branched timeline in skyward sword so alot of things can be different but thats just theories which will probs never get an answer from nintendo cause they dont care
Yeah same here tbh. Look, I love the game and I love Zelda's story in this game. For it just shows how much she has grown since BOTW and it made me very emotional at the end and I'm proud of her. That being said, it is no doubt that ths games story could use some SERIOUS improvement. DLC could really help patch it up if they just went ahead and make it. There are too many unanswered questions. Kass' disappearance is a whole damn mystery, sorry wise we don't know all that much about the Zonai nor what happend, who are the 3 dragons and the Ancient Hero??? And ffs we don't even know the names to the ancient sages!!
So late but wanted to say you’re not alone. I fought tooth and nail for a collectors edition of this game. I dug into everything I could. When I saw the art book leak with the drawing of Sonia, I was so sure she was Hylia. So many things they could have gone into and so many directions they could have gone. The ending was so dissatisfying. They had something so cool with the depths but barely touched it. I won’t beat a dead horse, but thank you for putting my thoughts into words better than I could. 😂 Also hello I did watch the whole thing. ❤ I know you’ve done FNAF videos in the past, I would love to see more of those from you! FNAF content is picking up like crazy. I’ve also been loving the Poppy Playtime games thus far, Chapter 3 looks like it’s going to be the best yet so it could be a good time to get into it!
it's insane how 6 years of development had this as a result lol, pick literally any fan theory and it's more interesting than the final product lmao. even those i disagreed with and disliked at least had some thought put into them...
@@highdefinition450 Yes this! A lot of people were excited about the prospect of playing as Zelda. I've never been interested in playing as Zelda, but if they told me there was DLC or another section where you play as Zelda through her time in ancient Hyrule I would have been pumped to interact with that version of the world and the characters. They could have just limited that gameplay to the Great Plateau... SO many great opportunities and they just blew it. Why did they give Rauru his name but make no connection to the Rauru in OoT? With all of the ancient writings about Zelda, I also thought they were going to tie everything together to imply that THIS was THE Legend of Zelda. They could have tied in the golden goddess to say they swallowed a secret stone and became dragons. I'm rambling again. Just... Ugh. So disappointing.
@@shibba2517 lucky for you there are thousands and thousands of YT channels out there, I’m sure you’ll find something! Jordan won’t become a FNAF tuber simply because I suggested it (and did so because I know he’s enjoyed it in the past). But I’m sure if he makes the video it’s because he is interested in its content. And what’s AWESOME is that you just don’t have to watch it if you don’t want to. 🫶🏻
@@shibba2517 😂 Bandit won’t make FNAF videos simply because I said so, but maybe he will if he’s interested in the content. And! You don’t have to watch them if you don’t want to. 🫶🏻
In reference to the true-but-also-not statement that the lore doesn't really matter: It definitely feels like that's their attitude currently, but not necessarily in the past. Like, both ww and tp did such good jobs of taking what ocarina set up and moving FORWARD with it and creating more lore to play with Botw/totk feels like it's just...a reboot. And we didn't NEED a reboot. They're fun games but from a lore perspective they just aren't ZELDA, in my opinion Also, just wanna say I love your content of ALL kinds, and hope things go well for you moving forward! You have a really fun personality, no matter what topic you cover, that draws people in. Keep up the great work Bandit, and know that a LOT of people agree with you about totk. Edit: hi! I'm still watching! XD also, to answer "favorite franchises", sonic actually has FASCINATING lore and I'd love to see some of your takes on it.
“Hello, I am still watching this down below” While I don’t share your disappointment, I understand completely. Yes, even through all your grievances, which to me is still intriguing to listen to because I like listening to other people talk about their thoughts and feelings. Outside of Zelda, I am an X-Men fan. I love Pokemon. I love Mario and Sonic. There’s too much to love out there. My expectations are always tempered, but I am glad I got a heads up, anyways. Stay healthy, beautiful, and relax. You’re good on content at least with me and hopefully with other people.
I met my wife through zelda theory forums and it’s honestly been one of my favorite pastimes, reading the books, playing the games, really digging into these mythologies and stories, this franchise means the absolute world to me, and boy my frustration with this game, as well as Age of Calamity’s lore “contributions” has just crippled my love for this franchise. It’s frustrating to have placed so many hours into these three new games to have no questions answered. That being said The Elder Scrolls games have a pretty solid amount of stories and theories to share, as well as the Dark Souls series. I’ll always love The Legend of Zelda, but man I really don’t want them to make another game like this if it means detracting from the original stories this much.
I beat the main game, and once I heard no DLC, I haven’t touched it. I’m right there with you. I like the game, but I was let down with questions not answered and now the possibilities of no more info… I’m out
Zelda was my favorite franchise for years, Xenoblade Chronicles took over after TOTK because of many of the reasons you mentioned in the video. XC3 changed my life almost the same way BOTW did when it released and I’m so glad I decided to play this amazing franchise!
BotW was bad though. TotK was better than BotW in every way, it actually felt like a Zelda game. I would've enjoyed TotK more if I had never played BotW.
Totk was supposed to be dlc and you can tell by how some things arent as fleshed out as they couldve been. The priorities were clearly on the gameplay and it came at a cost of dungeons, story, world, graphics etc.
@@TwelveDaysofHalloween depends on the player, BOTW was very much Zelda to people like me, only different from what many became used to. TOTK is great but adds on top without feeling as organic, and what reminds of "traditional" Zelda isn't what I'd call clear benefits: sky islands are platforms to renew surface exploration more than interesting places to discover, the depths are a great concept spread too thin, the linear story isn't integrated well with the open world (out of order memories, awkward main quest dialogues), old lore is either overshadowed without developing its replacement much (no Goddess(es) or Triforce, only vague Zonai with stones, now Sheikah tech is "just gone") or repeated without adding to it (Ganondorf), temple approaches and themes are a great iteration but their puzzles forgettable. Yet I really like the game, but I preferred BOTW as a coherent experience despite all it didn't have, it benefited from novelty and focus.
I agree with you bro. I always felt like something was wrong with this game. It was good but it was missing many things that made Zelda special. All that it will be remembered for is the building mechanics
for me the breaking of the master sword broke smth in me, i love Skyward Sword, and seeing the "only" piece of always-is-there thing break, killed me at this point. i rly missed things like u said with Triforce and even wished for hylia story
This is very true, it feels kinda weird that they just gave out and showed a character that has been a mystery throughout the whole Zelda series, just showing and giving out the zonal out of nowhere is a little disappointing
Hello. I'm still watching this. Yeah man, you've discussed branching out for a while now. And I fully support your decision. Your Zelda theories have been great throughout the series. I'm excited to see what you come up with next as far as content! The video game universe is your oyster 😎
It would be interesting and I feel like people would want to see a re-written story or development for TOTK, written by the G7 of Zelda-Theorists… I can imagine you guys could create so much more depth and filling story than what we got.
Trails/Kiseki- It's a JRPG series with 12 games and every game is in the same world and even same continent(Zemuria). This game series have different arcs with different MCs and MCs from previous arcs may come as playable characters in furure arcs. It's like this, completing a character's arc doesn't mean his/her story has ended in the world, they are still moving forward in their lives.
I completely agree with you it felt like somebody took two different stories and forced them together. It was a fun game to play but I was very underwhelmed by the story which is really my favorite aspect. It does seem like you have one more video idea that you're pretty passionate about. Just go ahead and lay it all out there man
You know, when I saw what TOTK was doing with the lore, I chuckled. "They're breaking the lore again," I said to myself. I'm sorry that this is the game that did this to you because I thouroghly enjoyed it for what it was. However, I know the feel and it sucks because of how confusing it is and knowing full well Nintendo did it on purpose. My lore break upset came with Wind Waker, because OoT was supposed to be the Imprisoning War from ALttP and the only way that works is the Adult timeline and they said "Flood it". Because of this when Zelda Theorists started popping up in my feed I thought it was a bizarre and futile effort. I just loved the connections you all made and made so much stuff make so much sense. But this day had to come because a lore break had to happen again because that's what they do. So, I'm going to give you a bit of encouragement and say you and the rest of the Zelda Theorists have done something amazing work fleshing out Hyrule for us. I hope that this upset doesn't stop you in trying again. Maybe, just taking the lore hat off of Zelda for a minute will be just what you need to refresh yourself and come back stronger. But you shouldn't stop. As for game recommendations. Lore wise Blue Fire has something going on but I'm not the one that can tease it out. All the best Mr. Bandit.
It's not just the Spirit of the Hero that might be gone. It's the whole Spirit of the Franchise that disappeared. Nintendo makes me feel like they just want bigger fanbase, and are ready to let go all that made Zelda, Zelda, to make a bigger Fanbase happen. And yeah everything is Zonai now. Even the Wizzrobe. They don't have magic wand anymore, none of them. They all have Zonai Wand with an Elemental Stone.
dude. when i heard the goron dungeon was gonna be an underground ancient goron city? and in the depths? WHY DID THEY NOT MODEL IT AFTER OCARINA OF TIME's GORON CITY???????? ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY ADDED CAVES THIS GAME
You should def go into this more dude. Agree with everything you’ve said, and as someone who’s favourite series is also Zelda, the internet can be a lonely place when you didn’t enjoy TotK 😅
Zelda has the Triforce. It's not verbally hinted at, but it's shown to us. (It's barely visible in her memory of holding the MS, but in the staff credits, we get a de-saturated image of that scene where you can clearly see the whole Triforce on her right hand, clutching the MS.) As for the founding: Fujibayashi hinted at the founding being a re-founding long after any/all game(s) of any/all timeline(s); saying there may have been a major destructive event that wiped the slate clean (whether that is a satisfactory answer is up to the player). So thank God, so far, no lore has been contradicted, "just" pushed aside/is so far in the past that it's existing, but irrelevant to a degree. (Which you mentioned in the vid.) But I definitely understand the frustration, because there is no going back (unless a game releases that plays in the past, which is unlikely I believe). The MS was not always all powerful. In WW(HD), when the sages were dead, it could not even slice Ganondorf (meaning he could touch the blade, it touched him, maybe even break it) In TP(HD), Midna could be near the blade and ridding Wolf-Link of the curse seemed like a choice by the sword rather than an effect. In SS(HD), Ghirahim can hold the tip of the blade without suffering. I think the phrase "Evil may never touch it" means not that it can't, but that it should never be allowed to. "Hello, I am still watching this, down below. You know. Just do that." My fav. franchise besides TLoZ... that's a hard one. I'd say Mass Effect 1-3. Currently, as replied to your pinned comment, diving into the Xenoblade series. I like that so far.
Fujibayashi didn't hint at anything, he said its possible. It was a non-answer to allow anyone to decide what they wanted. Which is exactly what lore enthusiasts do NOT want. They want answers, not more half-hearted "oh it can be whatever you want". It just further shows they don't care. (But tbh, they never really cared that much.) The refounding theory falls apart in numerous different ways as is. Its easily one of the worst ideas given it completely contradicts what the game itself is trying to tell us. That doesn't mean what the game is trying to tell us makes much sense either, but "refounding" further doesn't make sense either. In context, I think Fujibayashi wasn't even talking about a far future founding, they were talking about how the "Kingdom of Hyrule" was established at the end of Skyward Sword, and this doesn't resemble that founding at all. (That's not actually what happened, according to Hyrule Historia. According to HH, after Skyward Sword was the Era of Chaos, _then_ the founding of Hyrule, which actually lines up a lot better with this lore; King Rauru established a peaceful kingdom after a long era of chaos. TOTK Ganondorf believes the chaotic era made people stronger and he sets to prove Rauru wrong. But Fujibayashi doesn't know enough about the series lore to care much about this.)
@@JaidynReiman Given it's the first thing that came to his mind when asked makes it a strong contender. The pre-story of Minish Cap has to happen between SS and MC. TotK's past has no place there, given that it spans a long time, Zonai descending and departing included. A destroyed Hyrule would result in a time of chaos as well. Nothing you mentioned invalidates the idea of a re-founding. It also would make everyone involved in OoT less foolish, since such a massive war would be fresh in history books and minds alike. Trusting another Ganondorf (another thing that'd suck and diminish Ganondorf's role of that time) after that makes the king look even dumber. Not to mention the castle issue, being built and re-built or moved apparently. No, TotK's past being between SS and MC makes less sense than having it long after any timeline's last game.
I believe TotC suffered from the same problem that many games are currently suffering from: they all have subversive storylines. I was watching a Bellarus video on the breakdown of lore within WoW and realized when you put this video out that Zelda now has the same problem. They want to subvert expectations of fans without the substance. They only tell the story through vague subtext without the solid setting and backstory to make subtext worthwhile. I would love to hear more of your thoughts about this ongoing problem
For old series, I can see the appeal of them trying to re-invent themselves and surprise people. But stopping to think about it, I am curious why they cannot do this using the ingredients they themselves put in their cupboard? The Legend of Zelda lore has so many ingredients that using them in new and interesting ways and subverting expectations in a positive manner shouldn't be that difficult. Provided they have folk who actually know about the lore, and think about the lore. It begins to feel to me like many times fans are more in the loop on lore than developers, and as an aspiring author myself (noting here I am not a game developer) it does come off as a bit baffling how these development teams struggle to join the rather rich lore with new ideas for new games into a coherent and juicy package. A lot of the times, it feels like developers even want to just start from a fresh table, rather than tinkering and having someone in the loop deal with the world building and storytelling to make it all excitingly interesting. Lore masters in these teams don't seem to get too well utilized.
I feel your frustration. For me it’s the fact Nintendo didn’t commit to the bit when it came to Zelda’s sacrifice. When she draconified I was like HOLY SHIT A GAME FINALLY WITH SOME PUNCH TO THE TITLE BEING ‘THE LEGEND OF ZELDA’ Only for them to deux ex machina reverse trap card on her transformation and make her human again. Would it have been sad if she stayed a dragon? Sure. But it would’ve made her sacrifice all the more memorable and impactful not just for the people of Hyrule but for players. It was a fun game to play absolutely. But it’s tainted with that disappointment.
Hello, I'm still watching this. Anyway... (Warning! mucho texto incoming.) "Gameplay is king" is the mindset I've had pretty much forever. So believe me when I say, I NEVER thought a game's story would so heavily effect my opinion on it. And yet, Tears of the Kingdom proved to me, that I value lore and story FAR more then I ever thought I did. Breath of the Wild's story was always great to me. Using Link's amnesia to it be intertwined with the open-ended nature of the game was perfect, and how they skillfully integrated it with the existing timeline while also leaving it open to interpretation as to whether it was at the end of one time-line or another, or even a convergence of sorts was genius for theory crafters. And then comes Tears of the Kingdom... Which borderline rewrites BotW to further disconnect it from the timeline, by making it where Calamity Ganon is now just some new guy named Ganondorf. rather than the classic Ganondorf we all know and love. Thus, nothing to the greater Zelda-lore. Turns the Zonai (which prior to TotK were some of the most interesting people in the series) into aliens...? Who wield magical super MacGuffins that bestow upon the user the power to destroy the Master Sword, rewind time, fire crazy death lasers, summon spectral versions of the user, transform you into an immortal dragon, UN-transform you from being an immortal dragon, and basically anything else the writers need at the time. Does even less with the concept of the Three Golden Goddesses and the Triforce then Breath of the Wild, or even Age of Calamity. All while using BotW's memory system to terrible effect. Having a very linear story that you can experience out of order really screws with what's happening in the present story, and at it's worst can make all the characters (Link especially) look absurdly stupid, constantly chasing a Zelda they know is fake. To quote Revali. It's just...asinine.
I went through the whole game and the side quests. Did just about everything. I have the same feels. It still feels like a really large DLC. We really didn't learn more about the Zonai aside from what two of them looked like. It feels like they tried to Majora's Mask this but with a whole lot more time to develop a story and still didn't live up to the sequel tag. A lot of things just amount to random a** pulls for plot reasons. 6/10 - could have been better.
Still watching this! I have to say that I enjoyed the story more in TotK than I did BotW, but I get your points, and agree with a good number of them (sky islands, post temple sage cut scenes, etc), and I truly appreciate your opinions on the game! As for series, I was always looking forward to Metroid stuff when you were playing Dread! Edit: this just randomly popped into my head, but what about diving into the world of Psychonauts?
The other biggest problem with the game that I noticed specifically is they did nothing with the concept of jumping through time in regards to the time skip between breath of the wild there was so much more that they could have done and they just didn't the only real thing is the school and to have a giving up the mantle but we didn't really get to see how high will change it was more minor stuff like you know the camp.
Im in a bit of the same boat, I’m a artist who did a lot of totk fanart before the game came out, Since then I’ve barely drawn anything from it, I just don’t care about the game. My art output has slowed down a ton.
Hi. I'm still watching this. :) If you got into Zelda because of lore and story and music, I highly recommend trying the Xenoblade series. It actually handles its lore well and respects the stories they tell. Zelda used to be my favorite franchise. But that changed when I got into Xenoblade. The entire numbered trilogy is so good, ending with the DLC of Xenoblade 3. If you love lore and stories having connections to each other while also telling its own story, few other franchises does it as well as Xenoblade.
I completely agree with you. I liked TotK and had fun, but I know that’s only because I haven’t played BotW since shortly after its release. I’m not a fan of the open world idea for Zelda since the linear formula was more fun for me so I could experience the story as it happened and I liked the structure for dungeons and the over world. Everything trying to be open world these days is overwhelming because there’s just so much to do it’s not even fun to try to do things since I know it’s just going to be tedious, like Korok seeds and boring fetch quest side quests. The lore felt like an after thought since these games were more about the open world experience and gameplay which is fine, but I think the nonlinear story telling also made it difficult to really give more answers. Like it’s cool to have some things up to interpretation and speculation, but it would be great to have some answers to major aspects of lore.
I think, along with what you've mentioned in this video, my biggest gripe with TotK in terms of lore are the questions that it leaves us about BotW. Like... where are the Divine Beasts? Where are the Sheikah shrines? The Sheikah towers? All of the Sheikah stuff is MIA outside of the slate, and even then its called something completely different??? Also Hello, I'm still watching this!
@@Pupsuli That is so fucking dumb. Like, they made it a whole point of the DLC to give Link his own Divine Beast. Did it just up and vanish while he was riding it around???
Holy Smokes! Someone FINALLY said it. I couldn’t even finish this game, I was so broken-hearted about all the lost opportunity. A really good game series that has fantastic lore continuity is Baldur’s Gate- currently obsessed with playing BG3
I love Metroid and Xenoblade, and I’d be interested if you talked about those series. In my experience Zelda fans often intersect with those 2 franchises.
I enjoyed playing totk but I genuinely had more fun watching all the speculation about what it would be rather than what it actually was. It was a fine game! I’ll play it again someday but it did not give me the feeling botw did and DEF did not give me the feeling wind waker (my fav game) gave me. Your reasoning is valid and from what I can see, you aren’t alone
Hello! I am watching this. Also, I'm a big fan of the Xenoblade Chronicles series personally. It might take a lil while to get into the lore of, but it's incredibly interesting and the worldbuilding is fascinating. It has a lot of room for people like you theorising and explaining the lore.
I honestly do think the biggest disappointment was when the master sword broke. I stopped playing for some reason, and now I am thinking it’s because the game is not what I was expecting. How could you break the master sword😭💀
I think breaking the master sword was a really cool idea since it showed how big of a threat this ganondorf was while setting a main goal for the game, but the payoff was just too weak. If the master sword was at least as powerful and as durable as it was post trial of the sword, it would’ve felt way better
honestly i think the richness of the "new" lore in botw/totk will actually grow as subsequent games release. you can't really craft intricate theories without use of the games that came before, and i think any of the "loose end" stuff from these titles can eventually be utilized in subtle ways in future titles. i also think the fact the land of hyrule literally exists forever, cyclically, makes the most sense within the overarching themes of the series - of course a land that's guaranteed to exist for all of time so long as the triforce exists will have infinitely interconnected and infinitely unrelated things happening in the past, present, and future. time manipulation is clearly a very real thing within the fabric of the universe of those games, so the "lore" getting twisted in ways where it contradicts itself or doesn't make sense linearly is actually the most logical way to handle it, and also makes lore+theory videos more unique. each and every person will be able to form their own lore connections with every new game. i do wish there had been more connectivity, but if i know anything about how much care they put into zelda games, they will hear these criticisms loud and clear and will keep it in mind during development of the next major title. also... demon king?? secret stones????
On the one hand I would argue Nintendo never cared THAT MUCH about the connected lore for Zelda, they could have made the games way more explicitly connected like Wind Waker to OOTB was if they wanted. However even when they weren't explicitly connected like my example it felt like Nintendo was willing to throw the lore fans a few bones with each game and it was almost always just enough to come up with cool ideas and theories. TOTK sadly doesn't even wanna do that in a lot of ways
Hello, I'm still watching this. My favorite franchise is the Earthbound/Mother series. I love how the Mother games can be both unabashedly silly and bizarre as well as grounded and emotional (Mother 3 takes both of these aspects to the extreme, which is why it's my favorite game). It's also cool to see how these games got more polished and streamlined as the series progressed, both with gameplay mechanics and storytelling.
I remember encountering the Statue of the Eight Heroine in Tears of the Kingdom and being thrilled when I saw there was a puzzle on it. I immediately stopped whatever I was doing, glided to that area, solved the puzzle and entered inside only to find…Tingle’s hat. One of the most intriguing locations in Breath of the Wild was nothing more than the storage area for a crappy outfit piece. That was the moment my hype dimmed and I realized Tears of the Kingdom was not going to reward the curiosity that Breath of the Wild strived so hard to evoke in players. Pease don’t apologize for critiquing the game. I greatly enjoyed Tears of the Kingdom, it captivated me with it’s gameplay and although the story was far from perfect, it at least pulled me in while I was playing it. But that doesn’t mean the game doesn’t have it’s major flaws and that those flaws aren’t worth talking about. Positive experiences aren’t the only valid experiences. Btw, hello I am still watching this ❤
This but the labyrinths. A whole 3 floating labyrinths and all you get is a phantom ganon costume. I get it has shrines but I was so disappointed after each boss fight. I feel like there just could’ve been a better costume or sages wills there instead.
@tinkerbestie I think if there is anything we can learn about the Era of the Wild games, it's that the Zelda team as it stands is more interested in the thrill of the journey rather than the value of the reward at the end of it. Which is a bit of a problem when you have a massive open world that you dont really have a reason to fully invest yourself in. Don't get me wrong, the puzzles are great and worth doing just because they're fun, but when you're constantly running around this vast world doing things 'just because'--things quickly become repetitive and video gamey rather than interesting and immersive.
This is so refreshing to hear, it felt like there weren't many of us that thought this when the game was showered with so much praise, I thought maybe there was something wrong with me and that I was stuck in the past or something, but it seems it's because these games disregard the other Zelda games, TotK even ignores some things BotW did which is really jarring, like the Sheikah tech. But I think the thing that makes me the most sad is that these two don't really feel like the Zelda games from before, I even thought "Is this even a Zelda game anymore" and felt kind of empty throughout it. Perhaps I'm just nostalgia blind, but the feelings are there and true. I'm glad we're honest about this, it makes me feel less alone about it. A friend of mine seemed to enjoy it but he never played Zelda games before, I envy him. In any case though, I hope the next Zelda game will be epic and grand, and I hope you all have a great day ^^
Sorry if this video isn't exactly what you were expecting... but I just had to level with you guys.
TL;DW - TotK videos will be much rarer on the channel going forward, with the new focus being legacy Zelda games and other game franchises entirely.
... On that note, what franchise do you like best besides Zelda?
P.S. Thank you for understanding... or at least for being here. Much love to all of you.
First
Edit: I think you should cover Ori it's pretty cool.
@@UnsaidLiesnot first
Would love your take on Pokemon stuff.
I'd love to hear more about lore and facts of previous zelda games instead of totk.
@@UnsaidLiesNot
We are between a korok and a hard place.
Tears of the Kingdom failed to fuel the long-term-passion we hoped for, and now we must wait many years before we can get another scoop of Zelda gameplay.
Your decision is understandable! And there are lots of other Nintendo fanchises I would love to see you take a crack at.
Also: "Hello I am still watching this."
koroks failed to replace kokiri
there. i said it!
Ya I agree the lore and story behind totk was just terrible
Even if the gameplay was killer
Also hi bread 🍞
Pokémon.
Pokémon is trash
It would be so awesome if he get into Xenoblade. There is so much depth to those games and so many theories around them. Definitely a franchise that shows far more respect to story than Zelda.
It seems you're not alone, every zelda youtuber have significantly toned down the amount of zelda theory videos, because yeah, there isnt much to off of anymore
I came to the comments to see if others noticed this as well. Zelda tubers are very quiet about this game and for good reason. There’s nothing to say.
you're both so right asf... it hurts Lol
speaking from experience, us smaller tubers don't wanna do many videos because there's a significant view drought, I feel like there's a lotta content I wanna do atm, but juggling a full-time job and YT means that it can't be a priority since there's no guarantee of a video doing good like it would've in February. Plus the amount of negativity in the community atm makes doing theory videos VERY unappealing, why do theory videos when all people wanna do is rant at you about why it's wrong?
Just a small zeldatubers take! :) @@passacookie
Views are crazy low as well compared to what they once were. TotK has kind of been the nail on the coffin for the Zelda Fan base as the actual fans seem to not care about this game at all.
@@thediesel1241there's definitely been a changing of the guard, it seems. From the old fan base to those that joined in botw or totk.
There's decent viewership for playthroughs of this game--makes sense, there's an infinite amount of challenge runs you can do, but Lore? Theory? Story analysis? WYSIWYG--What you see is what you get, with this game. There are no burgeoning mysteries begging to be dived into--and those that previously existed either came to light very bluntly, or were denied any possibility of continuing
Tears definitely destroyed the lore seeking attribute about Zelda. The Zonai being the first king of Hyrule completely ruins the stories of the past Zelda and they did that to establish that it’s a reset of the timeline
Yeah that and how they half pretend BOTW didn't happen. It pisses me off how many things from that game are simply just gone in TOTK. It's pretty hard to talk about lore when they pull stuff like that.
For example in Dark Souls thousands of years pass between each game yet there are many things that reference people, events or concepts from the previous games. Meanwhile in the last 2 Zelda games not even a decade passed yet absolutely nothing remained from the divine beasts or the guardians
You're right. It's more complicated now.
Please rant more about this, this is something we all need to talk about
Amen
With you 100%. I have never felt more like Nintendo doesn't care about the lore of this franchise, and it hurts. Even if you guys were all still making lots of lore vids about TOTK, I'm not sure if I could watch them without feeling angry that the lore doesn't matter anymore. Hope you can find new topics for future vids that you're really inspired by.
I actually would like a video where you fully unload on this game. I need the catharsis, and I genuinely think Nintendo needs to hear this!
I second this
I'll do it.
@phoenixdowner The multiple entrances idea is brilliant and would totally work in this style of game. I didn't even realize I wanted it until you pointed it out, but you're right that was definitely a missed opportunity.
Seconded
I couldn't agree more. Sure, I want someone somewhere to make a logical connection that shows that this thought process about BotW and TotK isn't necessary, but right now it feels like it's needed.
Genuinely summarised my thoughts perfectly here. I understand that the story has never been a priority of the Zelda games but that doesn’t mean you need to disregard the lore entirely. My biggest issue with this franchise is that the concept of all these stories taking place in the same continuity over such a mind bogglingly long time is so insanely cool to me but it’s just completely wasted because they’re always so focused on the NEW lore for each game while pretty much completely ignoring all that came before
Story isn’t a priority? Go tell that to Zeltik’s hour long retrospective about the story of each mainline Zelda game. Story is a major appeal of the series for many fans. Myself included.
@@samueltitone5683 story is barely a priority in totk. i have no idea how he managed to stretch that barebones plot to a multi hour series but it doesn’t change the fact that it was dogshit.
totk’s story has literally nothing going for it. zelda’s sacrifice is meaningless, ganondorf is just a generic villain with no real goal aside from stopping the good guys from being good, whereas in ww for example he’s written in a far more interesting way. it barely acknowledges the fact that it’s a direct sequel and the devs themselves stated they didn’t think about obvious questions that anyone who played botw would ask. and not to mention the copy and paste cutscenes. you can like totk but it’s story is aggressively mediocre at best.
It isn't that plot isn't there, it's that answers are frustratingly not there... Like if you went to Romans 102 in college and only learned about the Greeks, you're still learning, just not what you expected or wanted to learn.
They can't disregard it since they create the lore. Totk is canon. It's not any of these TH-camrs leeching off Nintendos developers and their games creating Zelda, it's Nintendo. They create lore, they create the story, and you have to eat it. You don't decide.
@@greenlight2323 I don't think that's fair, personally I'm on the fence because as much as I understand the writers' approach and am able to enjoy each game for its strengths, sometimes the "gameplay/concept first and story second" does present benefits for that gameplay but underlines how much untapped potential remains for the setting. To paraphrase Bandit, BOTW was sparse in storytelling but after finishing the game I really appreciated that it kept simple, focused on exploring a mysterious world, while leaving a lot open to tie nostalgic lore and symbolism with this new state of Hyrule in a distant future. TOTK ups the ante in scope, time frame and epic events but avoids anything that would describe it concretely relative to other games. It relies on the same structure, it's "story second" but for a concept better suited in BOTW, while not really doing anything with continuity and these distant connections we've theorized for 6 years. Aonuma also confirmed they don't want to worry about what they've done in old games, so in that sense the new canon disregards what some of us would like to see explored more. I think that while no game will satisfy everyone in every aspect, in story as well as gameplay there are ways to make new stuff that appeals to long time fans without alienating newcomers.
I hate how the Zonai were supposed to be a barbaric tribe and they just changed that.
Zonai we’re never supposed to be a barbaric tribe at all. That entire lineage was the result of a combination of intentional revisionist history and sun setting their time in the kingdom which meant that their history and legacy faded into obscurity. What was always the case and revealed in TotK is that certain powers that be intentionally covered over Zonai ruins to make them appear more primitive for their protection/safety and to fulfill a destined loop. The barbarian armor was never explicitly Zonai and I love the Zelda team’s subversion/misdirection
@@shabado0 misdirection my ass. They clearly retconned it
@@hulkman245 nope, you’re taking some (understandable) leaps. The barbarian set is linked to a war-like tribe but they never make any connection to Zonai in BotW. They make literal reference to a Zonai people in that game and if they wanted the barbarian set to be tied to the Zonai and maintain the flavor text they would have called it Zonai armor, either in English or in any of the other game’s languages.
The Zonai excerpt from creating a champion was simply taking the barbarian armor descriptive text and extrapolating it to make inferences.
@@hulkman245youtubers making theory videos is not canon
Lol there was no reason to believe this
This video helped me realize how i felt about totk. I really enjoyed playing it, and i love the personality they gave zelda. And her relationship with Link. But there was definitely a feeling of something...lacking in ToTK. And you hit the nail on the head.
Anyway! Yeah, i love the channel and will definitely keep watching!
Probably because zelda and link... dont interact. In the intro and the ending is basically it
(and the memory where he draws the master sword but Zelda just talks to the deku tree)
@@a_person4742there’s Zelda games where they don’t meet…
I also made a similiar video 5 months ago. But youtube is not really fair and that was when everyone was too enthusiastic.
@@a_person4742 But there's a reason for that? And botw is their backstory
@@lulu_TheWitchBoy yeah like majoras mask. Except those games arent about princess zelda? The main quest in this game is find zelda, link and zelda should have more than 2 interactions
This was a good take and much needed. They really said "scrap the lore, everything is Zonai." Completely understand your decisions for the channel moving forward.
Who is playing Zelda for lore? Gameplay is the main focus and always has been.
@@dhLord64 I agree. I am a fan of the lore and love connecting everything, but gameplay has always been what Zelda has been about.
And they didn't even give us any meaningful information on the Zonai either. It's like they saw the videos on Zelda theorists talking about the Zonai ruins, saw how many fans loved it, and decided to make that the next main plot but without knowing why fans like the Zonai lore in the first place.
@@dhLord64 A series where the core fans were so obsessed with the lore and timeline placement it pressured Nintendo to make their own official timeline for the 25th anniversary. Yeah, Zelda fans don't care about lore.
@@ShallBePurified playing Zelda mostly for lore?? Almost nobody is doing that.
SO GLAD that everyone's finally starting to talk about this and MAN a longer rant would have been welcome! I was so excited to make TOTK content after release - ended up making like one jokey timeline video but despite the jokes I COULDNT HIDE MY GENUINE ANNOYANCE at the game. honestly such a shame for all of us, but its nice to know its a common opinion :")
(oh and hello I'm still watching. lowkey would like to know more abt xenoblade chronicles tbh)
It’s not common lol
@@jakedematteo2172it most definitely is. Very silent majority afraid to say what they think from the loud minority freaking out on them
@@APsGTG that is not true at all, you’re just using this video as an opportunity to hate on the game
@@jakedematteo2172 believe what you want. Totk is a game I and many others wanted to love, but we aren’t afraid to call things out when they’re made poorly. If you accept everything that’s given to you, all you’ll get is low effort stuff. We do not want the next Zelda to be low effort again.
Fujibayashi's excuse for the Sheikah technology is absolutely embarrassing, and he should be ashamed of himself. It's a clear indicator more than anything else that the Zelda team has opted out of bothering with lore and story. I don't know about anyone else, but "it all just disappeared and nobody in Hyrule cares, don't worry about it" is a genuinely insulting response to a completely reasonable question that ANYONE who played BotW would more than likely have. It's truly pathetic, and while I try not to be so vitriolic about something like this as I have in this comment, TotK is also the most recent game in the ZELDA franchise, and THE fastest-selling game in the company's history. It, as well as the people who wanted it to be good, deserve so much better than an excuse.
I wish it would go back to awesome and unique puzzle solving dungeons with badass bosses but in an open world setting. Plus, the charm of all the wacky characters around hyrule and deeper scarier sections (yes, im someone who was let down by the gibdos). Also the lore and stories are the best part of the Zelda series and withought it it feels like a shell even though its still super fun and innovative.
yeah same
elden ring...
I really loved the theory the Zeldatubers cooked from the trailers that wove in the story, about Ganondorf being held in stasis by Sheikah mummification to halt the reincarnation cycle, how it might focus on Ganondorf more sympathetically/tragically.. I was so let down by the plot as a whole. How Ganondorf was just a rando Ganondorf, how he straight up laughs off being tortured for 10K years. Don't even need to talk about the botched Zonai and Zeldragon thread. (sigh)
Oh, as for non Zelda stuff, I've been obsessed with Outer Wilds for uh, three years now. That's the bible for an open-world game and story done well, imo
This pretty much summarizes how a lot of people feel about totk. The memory of the first totk teaser is forever burned into my soul because of how much I wanted to kill Mummy Ganon lol.
But totk irl? The video game equivalent of “no i will not elaborate because idk what i just said”. They explained nothing. They hinted at nothing. The sages didn’t even have names and faces, just a repeating npc dialogue. The stones had no official name. The zonai STILL WEREN’T THERE. Just a massive disappointment overall and I’ve definitely tempered my expectations on nintendo games as a while going forward.
I am not tempering my expectations, I think it's time to do the opposite tbh. TotK was the only first party release from Nintendo so far this year to disappoint me - Pikmin 4? Mario Wonder? Fantastic, fantastic experiences. It's shocking how mundane and repetitive TotK ended up when their other IPs are still taking leaps forward
@@Charnutboy you make a great point because the only two nintendo specific games I bought this year were totk and pokemon violet which is pretty much my problem. I’ve heard nothing but great things about wonder and pikmin 4, I just haven’t spent the money yet. It definitely upset me how empty and repetitive the game is plus no dlc to even attempt to fill in the gaps??? Cooled me off completely.
I'm really happy that you posted this. I've kind of struggled to get through ToTK since it released. Not that it's not fun, but I found myself really disappointed by the lore. I think there was a way to write a story that would have appeased longtime fans and lore enthusiasts without isolating newer players, and it was a little disappointing to me that they took the path that they took.
What happened to the triforce
Same here :(
I still havent finished the game, it doesnt make me want to play it enough and the movement doesnt feel as good due to lack of raviolis gale lol
@@namaenomore7831 this always blows my mind. They replaced Raviolis gale with several fusable items on shields, ascend, and customizable vehicles while adding Tulin for even more mobility! Revalis gale was essential due to lack of movement options but in TotK we have SO MANY movement options, it’s much better IMO
It really is a great game, but I have not finished it yet either. I do enjoy it, but I think it's too much in a few ways. It probably doesn't help that I'm not in my 20s anymore, but I might go shrine hunting( I really want the heros aspect), but I'll find a couple and call it quits for a couple days. Also, BOTW left so many things to speculation, and TOTK gave a lot of answers, and imo, confusing ones.
Honestly I think being able to recognize the flaws in ToTK's writing as a criticism of the game really speaks to your dedication to the Zelda franchise. With that said, I also think branching out beyond just one franchise is an overall good thing to do. While I did initially come here because I enjoyed your Zelda videos, I personally thought your videos on games other than Zelda, such as Metroid and Elden Ring, were also very well done and brought a nice change of pace to the channel. Anyways, I really enjoy video game lore videos, so I'm sure I'll be sticking around.
I really dont think the problem had anything to do with our expectations. TOTK just really didnt want to have anything to do with even its own predecessor. Its bizarre how much of BOTW was just wiped clean as if it never existed. You gotta wonder what was even the point of making it a sequel, because the 2 games feel like alternate universes rather than an ongoing story.
BOTW was always so vague with its story and connection to the Zelda lore and now with TOTK it feels like we know why. Because it doesnt and they never cared about that games story in the first place.
Watching this video again. I dreaded totk for years before release because botw was the writing on the wall about how much Nintendo didn't care about lore for the new era of zelda. Wind Waker cared about lore, Skyward Sword cared about lore. BOTW didn't care in the SLIGHTEST. So I dreaded totk and could not for the life of me understand why theorists were excited. It has really sucked, but I'm glad we are all in this together now where I felt pretty alone the past 4 years. I don't think it was possible to tie up the loose ends of botw because they carelessly left just so many. Now that Nintendo has their money, I can finally be excited for the next zelda game, because we can emphasize that botw and totk just weren't it for us.
This video really put into words everything I've been thinking since the game's release. I was totally enamored by Breath of the Wild and couldn't put it down, then I started to vaccuum up content from you, Zeltik, NintendoBlackCrisis, MonsterMaze, etc. But after beating Ganon in TotK, I almost immediately set the controller down and moved on. I'm sure it is partly also because of how tedious and sometimes outright obnoxious the build mechanics were (my favorite parts of TotK were the shrines that _didn't_ require building), but also exactly what you said in the video regarding weird and frankly uninteresting story and lore decisions by the dev team, and I think that the fact that close to zero content has come out of the Zelda community at all, not just you, proves that feeling.
I'm stoked to see what's next for you all! Hopefully we get the next game in a new setting and in sooner than 6 years dev time.
Zeltik’s opinion in his recent video was that TOTK had the worst story of any 3D Zelda title. I’m not remotely surprised that Zelda-tubers felt let down. It’s always ok to feel how you feel, but in this case, you’re definitely not alone.
Clarification: I did note 3D here. There were a lot of 2D games that Zeltik considered to have much worse stories.
(Watched the whole thing. No franchises to recommend but interested to see what everyone else says.)
Honestly I just think that's a ridiculous argument. Its hardly the worst story of any 3D Zelda title ever. I thought the story was pretty good overall and far better than BOTW. Its nothing particularly amazing to write home about, but its not bad. The problem is they butchered the series lore, which is why Zelda tubers are pissed. I gave up on the lore of the series a long time ago because they never liked to keep things consistent at all.
@@JaidynReiman I’m just making an observation that not everyone liked it. Zeltik and Bandit both acknowledged that their opinions were likely to be controversial.
@JaidynReiman people have different opinions just like Bandit said to keep in mind
@@JaidynReiman I would definitely rate it as the worst in the series. It tramples over what was established previously in the same way the star wars sequels trampled over the OT. "I gave up on the lore of the series a long time ago because they never liked to keep things consistent at all." - I think this is probably a lot of people's first experience with this in the franchise. If you're like me you've been dealing with this since at least wind waker.
He didn’t explicitly say that it had the worst story
I felt the exact same way. It was very emotional, to me, to see how little the developers cared about continuity. There was just... Such an immensity of groundwork laid for creating something so much more beautiful and thoughtful. In my opinion, it wasn't even the core story itself that was the problem, it was how it was integrated into the world. All the tension was almost immediately released after we figure out was is going on with Zelda so early on. There were no surprises. There was also so much recycled stuff (music!?) that it ended up being a total retread. And finally, I would have traded all of the depths for having more of Hyrule rebuilt. I swear if castle town was rebuilt it would have added a bunch more to the game. TOTK was one of the most disappointing games I've ever experienced.
Agreed, I feel like this game had the potential to really dig into the themes that had their groundwork laid as far back as Skyward Sword and even to some extent Twilight Princess, this endless, cyclical conflict between these characters, forced to live and fight again and again through the will of forces beyond their understanding. That alone is fascinating in its thematic implications, and with what they did in Breath of the Wild with Zelda’s struggle to unlock her power and the fading might of the mastersword, it really seemed like they were moving in a direction to address those aspects, and then this game came along, bulldozed half the established lore, and left those loose threads out to dry. There was so much they could’ve done, but they just… didn’t. Tragic really. But hey, at least we’ve got that MajorLink fan series that actually does give a shit about the established lore and has its entire purpose rooted in addressing those potential thematic angles that I now believe Nintendo is simply not ballsy enough to follow through with.
Yep, really sad
I personally never had a problem with the game but I get why people might. I personally never care about the story if the gameplay itself is fun and the gameplay is possibly the most fun any zelda game up to this point and tbh, Nintendo has always operated with gameplay>story.
@@thebleachbartender1312 I'm fine with saying I loved the gameplay to death. I'd still recommend TOTK to folks just because its fun as hell. But I will still just as passionately bitch about what they did to the lore and how the story fell flat.
@@thebleachbartender1312 I'm tired of this "gameplay over story" bs. We've had Zelda games that had better stories and much more compelling characters than TotK before.
I 100% agree with you. I feel like we got more theories out of the trailers than from the game itself. If they just would have connected the lore more with previous games and not just Zonai everything, it would have been much more interesting. And we don't even know much more about the Zonai. We know they were magical and advanced furries that came from somewhere and they "founded" Hyrule. What happened to Hylia? What happened to the kingdom that had to be founded again with NO recollection of a previous anything? Where did the speech from Zelda in BOTW about Link (adrift in time, skyward bound, etc.) Come from? I finished TOTK with way more questions that answers.
Totally! I wrote a letter to Nintendo yelling at them for letting me down so much in these (and other) ways. Glad others feel similarly.
“What happened to the kingdom that got founded again?”
It got founded again, dummy
You think that can only happen once?
@@cajunking5987 I meant what happened to the kingdom? Why did it have to be founded again
@@PatriciaFlora10 because it’s been thousands of thousands of years
@@cajunking5987 Kingdoms don't just vanish into thin air, something must have happened. I just want to know what.
I remember being escited to see all the connections, especially with skyward similarities being the dragons, the ark dungeon and sandship down to the shape of the stones being similar to relics in the silent realm but it was almost jarring having zonai put forward so immediately as well. I had a great time (not done yet) but I was really hoping with a DLC of sorts we'd see more of the depths itself more info on the sky islands and relations with the older things. I still think there's things to talk about with how it relates to the series but I think you either have to make some connection or have it be more distinct on it's own. botw and took still had so many similarities from the older series but only became more distinct whilst holding on to those aspects if that makes sense
the game was ripe for connections to skyward sword. being that ss is my favorite zelda, I was super hyped for the game thinking they would have at least SOMETHING connecting it to ss. but then I played it and... nothing. it barely even connected to the game that literally took place canonically just years before it (where tf did all the sheikah tech go???). would've blew my mind if skyloft was one of the great sky islands or something...
I appreciate your rant, and honestly, I kinda wish you did rant more! It's good to get it out and you'd be surprised how many people actually agree with you. What i noticed, especially from most of the prevalent theorist, all of you share the same feelings. I think that says something considering theorist are some of the people who delve the most into the lore. If most of yall are saying the same thing, I think that holds a lot of merit! Keep it up!
This is how I've been feeling too. You are the first Zelda youtuber to exually come with good critics about this and I'm here for it. I need my lore like the old times
Not the only one, Hyrule Gamer also has a video: "Are Zelda Games Losing Their Charm?" - have you watched? Zelda i think is losing many fans with BOTW and TOTK...
@@byksEBM But gaining so many, the popularity metric is a tough one... Zeltik just ranked Zelda stories, his list makes sense to me and TOTK sits near the middle. To me the game has too much good that outweighs the bad to the extent that I keep coming back despite repeating it doesn't deliver as well as BOTW, but it keeps underlying that too much of the world building and story telling is underwhelming. The solace is how untapped potential can carry over into the next game, but Nintendo unpredictably iterates safely or does 180 turns, and while we're definitely getting more open world it's unclear if we'll see a version of TOTK better realized. I was already sure this would be a proper implementation for their earlier vision for Skyward Sword, but that implied a proper sky world which we didn't get. It's a matter of focus, adding two huge layers largely empty and/or repetitive, tons of caves and shrines only spreads their efforts and enables open world fatigue. Scale back to no more than BOTW's size, refine what's there, lean into some traditional elements but go wild for a modern implementation.
@@byksEBMthey’re losing fans I think we’re just disappointed that it didn’t have the story and lore we wanted but us old timers are going. To play the next Zelda game let’s be honest
not exactly at all... i got burnt out with both games. that was the problem.. never thought Zelda games would do that
You've basically said everything that was jumbled in my brain. There was so much potential for lore development and we were given more questions instead of answers with no promise of resolving anything. I'm still watching you, though. And my favorite game trilogy is Bioshock. 😊
Dude. 100% agree with you. I'm honestly relieved that you feel the same way on basically the entire franchise as I do because I'm not the only one. I was thinking that I'd have the same experience as botw where everyone said it was the best zelda game and I'm just over here like "it was fun but it didn't make ANY sense in lore". Like you said though, it was just vague ENOUGH to get away with not making sense.
"Hello, I am still watching this." And yeah, I think of TOTK as being as canonical as the CDI games.
hello, im still watching this
i felt the same way playing the game. for a while i told my husband how disappointed i was. i love this series with my whole heart and was SO excited about this game and to be left disappointed left a bad taste in my mouth. you nailed it though 💕 thank you for posting this
The cinematics were appalling-I was shocked the third time I heard “Demon King? 😧 Secret Stone?? 😃” It felt like those were place holders that they just left in. Also yeah the new lore fell so flat for me. “Triforce? Goddesses? Nah: goat people with magic stones. That’ll throw ‘em for a loop!”
In defense of the cutscenes after you beat a temple, I think they did that because they (the devs) don’t know which dungeon you will go to first… but even then it’s pretty weird, like why didn’t they slightly change them after you beat 1 of them? I’m not saying it’s justified if you look at it like that, I don’t really like it either
@@Glitchyy07yes. The freedom of the game means you can't build a consistent story because you can't force the players to play the game in a specific order. Which I think is dumb.
TotK is infinitely better than BotW, like BotW was the 60$ beta test for TotK
@@TwelveDaysofHalloween That's just silly and you know it. Plenty of open world games have criteria you have to fill out for different events to take place. There was 0 reason they even had to have these sages, let alone have them be completely dull while repeating the same lines of dialogue each time.
Consider something like this, 1- they could completely circumvent the stupid ancient timeline they went with. There was no need for any of it, and they could've made a totally different story for Ganon's return. Forgoing that, they still *made* this, and could have put in the effort to actually make something of their story by gating content.
Which brings me to 2 - You stick with the bones of the story as it is. 4 ancient sages, Rauru and his sister, boring as they might make the zonai. Get rid of the evil zelda sections, they're pointless and don't bring anything to the story beyond making it abundantly clear that Link has 0 interest in sharing what he clearly knows with anyone. Have slightly more specific cutscenes for each of the champions which revolve around the effects of the changes the gloom and whatnot have had on their regions. Have the shitty secret stones cutscene for your first champion, or maybe something slightly different if Link comes across the spirit sage first, and have a cutscene where Link sends a message to the remaining areas letting them know what he's learned. Give them each different cutscenes based on them knowing this information.
Better yet, if resources are a problem in spite of how wildly successful BotW was and having 6 years of dev time, make the secret stone info a non voice acted unique cutscene. that occurs with whichever champion you meet first, then you don't even have to make 2 cutscenes for each new champion+sage.
That's such a simple fix, it doesn't even require spending much more resources (some slightly new unique cutscenes, maybe don't even need new animations. Just have the sages talk with the champions about how they can prepare or maybe talk about their lives or friggin SOMETHING interesting. That and the cost to write some more scripts, one dude has to work a whole extra day for that ooooh nooo) And it makes the story infinitely more tolerable by not treating the player like they're mentally deficient.
This doesn't fix the stupid way they destroyed the lore continuity and still leaves us with a pretty garbage story, but it fixes one of the huge glaring issues that rubs players the wrong way without removing the open world aspect. You gotta remember that the folks at Nintendo *made* this game, everything in the game is deliberately placed in some way. They didn't have to even make the story the way it is, the fact that they went this direction at all is frankly pretty disappointing cuz it's such shitty storytelling. I say this all as someone who's been enamored with the series since childhood, who knows that Zelda isn't necessarily about having a good story, who even had fun with TotK for its game mechanics. I didn't want my games treating me like a 6 month old when I was 5, and I'm sure a lot of the kids Nintendo's trying to appeal to would've found a lot more enjoyment too if the game wasn't this awful in the story department. Don't excuse this garbage, there's plenty of things that could've been done to avoid it or make it better.
@@TwelveDaysofHalloweenBotw was definitely no Beta test, it does several things better than TotK and has its own identity. I hate that phrase because it essentially diminishes everything Botw accomplished
@@MegaSpides honestly my main issue is the mysterious nature of the ancient champion has no payoff or personal task/hint, like one thing they could have done is give them 4 tasks to request of you that change the nature of their land's hazard, or maybe a quest in their depths section, as is each champion has one trip into the sky or depths... But neither really had both, and the Gerudo was the only one with most of it focused on the town itself instead of either... It would be nice to have had all 3 possible but only require one of them based on when you complete the quest.
I feel you put your finger on a lot of TotK's problems. Both in regards to lack of lore connections and us fans possibly having pushed our expectations too high etc. I hope this timeline will eventually either fit or time will soften the feeling we're missing so much. Good to see you're still here, and yes, so are we.
Sorry Bandit but we're going to need a full analysis on this! I agree with all your points, and I just felt exasperated playing it sometimes. I had to put it down multiple times, because actually I wasn't enjoying it. I completd it the other day and I must say it was a relief, which is really sad to me. I can revisit nearly every Zeda game with ease because they're fun, sadly I don't think this will be the case with Totk. So yeh we'll need that video :D bonus points if you can make it an hour long! Just kidding! Actually I'm not, an hour video would be amazing!
Nintendo sees fan theories and instead of surpassing the theories or leaning into them. They just throw everything out the window and say. Nothing matters. Please consume product. About damn time people saw this for what it was.
I think several people were hyped for TOTK for what *could* have been and naturally were disappointed when certain things were glossed over and new concepts were introduced that didn’t really go anywhere (pretty much what you said). I’ve stated in other videos how my disappointments were that things like the Divine Beasts being gone really didn’t have an explanation when they were such a crucial part of BotW. I know Nintendo likes to make games that can stand on their own and not depend on prequels, but I think it’s a disservice to the story they built in that game.
This game is the epitome of "refuses to elaborate". I loved the game itself but the way the lore was handled is so frustrating. Just one million potential questions with no answers given.
As a Lore addict, the BoTW/ToTk games completely dumped the lore and disregarded years and years of world building. Also they merc'ed the one interesting character
Which character ?
@@IsraelLlerenaTingle
@@IsraelLlerena probably Mineru
Fi? I mean the master sword?
Midna.
Bandit, if you ever want to make a long form critique on the game, I'm here for it. Also yeah, having this kill the momentum of tons of my favorite youtubers really sucks.
Def same here! Every time he said „I shouldn‘t continue this point“ I was like „yes, do it“😂 Would love to see a review one day Bandit :) Much love from Germany my guy👍🏼
I was shocked that TOTK did literally nothing with the three springs or dragons. I thought they would be central to the story. it just didn't care about these at all. It didn't care about the new areas it added either: the sky islands, Depths, caves, and dungeons. To me, I will remember it as the Zelda game that didn't really care about anything. It's the first mainline Zelda game that does not feel like a passion project.
The time travel aspect of TOTK seems to me like an attempt to be able to solve the various incongruities between all the different games and lore problems throughout. I think we'll have to wait for another game or two, maybe even the movie, to see what Nintendo actually thinks about the lore aspect of all of this.
it really is just uninteresting, i haven’t beaten the game and i was someone who got it on launch waiting in a big crowd outside gamestop… the letdown lore wise was tremendous, no triforce, no Hylia, no golden goddesses, barely any teases to anything zelda… it just felt like a letdown that everything was zonai. me personally i don’t like it at all. i was someone who really did not care when seeing zonai videos on youtube b4 totk released, the whole idea was interesting, like could they be the twili? or maybe some other tribe or group but no it was just this random new lore changing tribe that had nothing to do with anything zelda related at all, oh yeah and they made hyrule…? thank you nintendo changing everything for nothing.
I ranted about the exact same thing to my dad last night. We were both pretty dissapointed that BOTW and TOTK are basically reboots, and how they didn't really add anything to the main timeline.
The worst part is that this is "the new zelda and the foundation going forward".
It's very much possible that we will never get any additions to the original lore ever again...
@@ShikiRyougi05 I'm fine with it mechanic wise... but fuck, I want the old lore back.
Thank you for making this video. I completely agree with everything you said. I felt this so much and I've been growing more and more dissatisfied with TotK and it's been more and more frustrating to see some creators ignoring these issues and just continuing making content on the game. Which is totally their right to do, and I'm glad they loved the game but it's really nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way about the game. So thank you for making this very cathartic video and I honestly would love to see a video of you ranting about the game for an hour or more.
The trailer was both iconic and misleading
The stuff about the Zonai was a breath of fresh air for me at least. I'll be honest, I was getting tired of hearing about the Triforce and the goddesses in what felt like almost every single Zelda installment before Breath of the Wild. I suppose that's why I have a soft spot for games like Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Majora's Mask, and Spirit Tracks because they hardly ever bring up the TriForce or the goddesses. In the Oracle games, the only time the TriForce makes its appearance is to transport Link to Labrynna/Holodrum, and in Majora's Mask and Spirit Tracks, the Triforce isn't mentioned whatsoever. Yes, TOTK brings up the very early events of Hyrule as a kingdom, but the story overall is its own thing and it just so happens that Ganondorf is the main villain.
I think the thing that ticks me off the most about ToTK (and BotW to an extent) is just how much Zelda doesn't get to be a character. In BotW, all we see is Zelda being conflicted and struggling in the face of an impending calamity, and she exists only in flashback and gets to do one thing. But that's okay, it's about Link waking up and finding her.
But then TotK comes along and we get to see Zelda, and experience her in the game BRIEFLY, before she's immediately yoinked away to the past.
Zelda had to struggle to understand her powers, lose Link, briefly suppress Ganon, be imprisoned for a hundred years, get saved, work on fixing Hyrule briefly, and then gets pulled to the past, has to deal with a crisis again, and then sacrifices her mind to become a dragon for thousands of years. She has one of the most miserable experiences as a character.
Can my girl get to do something in real time for once? If we'd at least gotten to play as her in the flashback, that would have been better.
Nah....it's Links game, always will be and rightfully so.
@@Dd-fb2tj Absolutely not.
Princess Zelda is my favorite fictional character of all time and she's been done so dirty. I never expected her to be playable because let's not kid ourselves, the franchise doesn't have the best track record when it comes to women. But when I first booted up the game and explored the depths with her I got so excited. She was my companion! Alas, a few minutes in and she falls into a hole...
The whole game I was looking for her, I was in denial. I thought "maybe she'll be my companion EVENTUALLY". But that moment never came. The closest thing to a "Zelda companion" the game has is that one Yiga clan member disguised as her on the Great Plateau.
@@Dd-fb2tj Last time I checked the game was called The Legend of Zelda, not The Legend of Link.
@@sophitiaofhyrule maybe you should play the games then and establish who the playable character and main protagonist is
Apparently the Triforce exists in TotK, extremely hidden. It’s in the Zelda’s Wish cutscene, on her hand that is creating the beams of light. Covered by said light. An editor removed that light and it revealed the triforce. The full triforce, on her hand.
TotK screws up the lore of the series. That is a fact, no?
Edit: Hello, I am still watching this.
My favourite franchises other than Zelda:
Xenoblade
Ace Attorney
like fuyibayashi said, totk can play a long time after a destruction of hyrule or maybe in the branched timeline in skyward sword so alot of things can be different but thats just theories which will probs never get an answer from nintendo cause they dont care
@@LogoKroko maybe they put in stuff like that thinking they can feed the og zelda fans with it, or stuff like the armors from previous zeldas in totk
I am a TOTK lover and honestly despite my love for the game these are all VERY valid criticisms that aren't wrong at all hahaha
Yeah same here tbh. Look, I love the game and I love Zelda's story in this game. For it just shows how much she has grown since BOTW and it made me very emotional at the end and I'm proud of her. That being said, it is no doubt that ths games story could use some SERIOUS improvement. DLC could really help patch it up if they just went ahead and make it. There are too many unanswered questions. Kass' disappearance is a whole damn mystery, sorry wise we don't know all that much about the Zonai nor what happend, who are the 3 dragons and the Ancient Hero??? And ffs we don't even know the names to the ancient sages!!
So late but wanted to say you’re not alone. I fought tooth and nail for a collectors edition of this game. I dug into everything I could. When I saw the art book leak with the drawing of Sonia, I was so sure she was Hylia. So many things they could have gone into and so many directions they could have gone. The ending was so dissatisfying. They had something so cool with the depths but barely touched it. I won’t beat a dead horse, but thank you for putting my thoughts into words better than I could. 😂
Also hello I did watch the whole thing. ❤ I know you’ve done FNAF videos in the past, I would love to see more of those from you! FNAF content is picking up like crazy. I’ve also been loving the Poppy Playtime games thus far, Chapter 3 looks like it’s going to be the best yet so it could be a good time to get into it!
it's insane how 6 years of development had this as a result lol, pick literally any fan theory and it's more interesting than the final product lmao. even those i disagreed with and disliked at least had some thought put into them...
@@highdefinition450 Yes this! A lot of people were excited about the prospect of playing as Zelda. I've never been interested in playing as Zelda, but if they told me there was DLC or another section where you play as Zelda through her time in ancient Hyrule I would have been pumped to interact with that version of the world and the characters. They could have just limited that gameplay to the Great Plateau... SO many great opportunities and they just blew it. Why did they give Rauru his name but make no connection to the Rauru in OoT? With all of the ancient writings about Zelda, I also thought they were going to tie everything together to imply that THIS was THE Legend of Zelda. They could have tied in the golden goddess to say they swallowed a secret stone and became dragons. I'm rambling again. Just... Ugh. So disappointing.
Another FNAF videos? Gimmie a break. That was a reason why I left Mat Pat channel
@@shibba2517 lucky for you there are thousands and thousands of YT channels out there, I’m sure you’ll find something! Jordan won’t become a FNAF tuber simply because I suggested it (and did so because I know he’s enjoyed it in the past). But I’m sure if he makes the video it’s because he is interested in its content. And what’s AWESOME is that you just don’t have to watch it if you don’t want to. 🫶🏻
@@shibba2517 😂 Bandit won’t make FNAF videos simply because I said so, but maybe he will if he’s interested in the content. And! You don’t have to watch them if you don’t want to. 🫶🏻
In reference to the true-but-also-not statement that the lore doesn't really matter:
It definitely feels like that's their attitude currently, but not necessarily in the past. Like, both ww and tp did such good jobs of taking what ocarina set up and moving FORWARD with it and creating more lore to play with
Botw/totk feels like it's just...a reboot. And we didn't NEED a reboot. They're fun games but from a lore perspective they just aren't ZELDA, in my opinion
Also, just wanna say I love your content of ALL kinds, and hope things go well for you moving forward! You have a really fun personality, no matter what topic you cover, that draws people in. Keep up the great work Bandit, and know that a LOT of people agree with you about totk.
Edit: hi! I'm still watching! XD also, to answer "favorite franchises", sonic actually has FASCINATING lore and I'd love to see some of your takes on it.
Watched til the end! Your opinion is completely fair, I felt the same way.
“Hello, I am still watching this down below”
While I don’t share your disappointment, I understand completely. Yes, even through all your grievances, which to me is still intriguing to listen to because I like listening to other people talk about their thoughts and feelings.
Outside of Zelda, I am an X-Men fan. I love Pokemon. I love Mario and Sonic. There’s too much to love out there.
My expectations are always tempered, but I am glad I got a heads up, anyways. Stay healthy, beautiful, and relax. You’re good on content at least with me and hopefully with other people.
Your voice is really satisfying to hear.
ED: Hello im still watching this.
Ikr
it feels like totk and botw went the souls route for its story, where the story basically doesn't exist outside of item descriptions
I met my wife through zelda theory forums and it’s honestly been one of my favorite pastimes, reading the books, playing the games, really digging into these mythologies and stories, this franchise means the absolute world to me, and boy my frustration with this game, as well as Age of Calamity’s lore “contributions” has just crippled my love for this franchise. It’s frustrating to have placed so many hours into these three new games to have no questions answered. That being said The Elder Scrolls games have a pretty solid amount of stories and theories to share, as well as the Dark Souls series. I’ll always love The Legend of Zelda, but man I really don’t want them to make another game like this if it means detracting from the original stories this much.
I beat the main game, and once I heard no DLC, I haven’t touched it. I’m right there with you. I like the game, but I was let down with questions not answered and now the possibilities of no more info… I’m out
Zelda was my favorite franchise for years, Xenoblade Chronicles took over after TOTK because of many of the reasons you mentioned in the video. XC3 changed my life almost the same way BOTW did when it released and I’m so glad I decided to play this amazing franchise!
BotW was bad though. TotK was better than BotW in every way, it actually felt like a Zelda game. I would've enjoyed TotK more if I had never played BotW.
As a fellow Xenoblade fan. Welcome. Come for the anime girls, stay for the existential philosophy and Gnosticism.
Totk was supposed to be dlc and you can tell by how some things arent as fleshed out as they couldve been. The priorities were clearly on the gameplay and it came at a cost of dungeons, story, world, graphics etc.
Xenoblade is incredible mate. All three of the games are amazing (tho my personal favourite is Xenoblade Chronicles 2).
@@TwelveDaysofHalloween depends on the player, BOTW was very much Zelda to people like me, only different from what many became used to. TOTK is great but adds on top without feeling as organic, and what reminds of "traditional" Zelda isn't what I'd call clear benefits: sky islands are platforms to renew surface exploration more than interesting places to discover, the depths are a great concept spread too thin, the linear story isn't integrated well with the open world (out of order memories, awkward main quest dialogues), old lore is either overshadowed without developing its replacement much (no Goddess(es) or Triforce, only vague Zonai with stones, now Sheikah tech is "just gone") or repeated without adding to it (Ganondorf), temple approaches and themes are a great iteration but their puzzles forgettable. Yet I really like the game, but I preferred BOTW as a coherent experience despite all it didn't have, it benefited from novelty and focus.
I agree with you bro. I always felt like something was wrong with this game. It was good but it was missing many things that made Zelda special. All that it will be remembered for is the building mechanics
I'm still watching this.
Time to become a banjo kazooie lore channel
for me the breaking of the master sword broke smth in me, i love Skyward Sword, and seeing the "only" piece of always-is-there thing break, killed me at this point.
i rly missed things like u said with Triforce and even wished for hylia story
This is very true, it feels kinda weird that they just gave out and showed a character that has been a mystery throughout the whole Zelda series, just showing and giving out the zonal out of nowhere is a little disappointing
Hello. I'm still watching this.
Yeah man, you've discussed branching out for a while now. And I fully support your decision. Your Zelda theories have been great throughout the series. I'm excited to see what you come up with next as far as content! The video game universe is your oyster 😎
It would be interesting and I feel like people would want to see a re-written story or development for TOTK, written by the G7 of Zelda-Theorists… I can imagine you guys could create so much more depth and filling story than what we got.
Trails/Kiseki- It's a JRPG series with 12 games and every game is in the same world and even same continent(Zemuria). This game series have different arcs with different MCs and MCs from previous arcs may come as playable characters in furure arcs. It's like this, completing a character's arc doesn't mean his/her story has ended in the world, they are still moving forward in their lives.
Long rant video would be VERY welcome. Thanks for posting this. Where is the triforce????
I completely agree with you it felt like somebody took two different stories and forced them together. It was a fun game to play but I was very underwhelmed by the story which is really my favorite aspect. It does seem like you have one more video idea that you're pretty passionate about. Just go ahead and lay it all out there man
You know, when I saw what TOTK was doing with the lore, I chuckled. "They're breaking the lore again," I said to myself. I'm sorry that this is the game that did this to you because I thouroghly enjoyed it for what it was. However, I know the feel and it sucks because of how confusing it is and knowing full well Nintendo did it on purpose. My lore break upset came with Wind Waker, because OoT was supposed to be the Imprisoning War from ALttP and the only way that works is the Adult timeline and they said "Flood it". Because of this when Zelda Theorists started popping up in my feed I thought it was a bizarre and futile effort. I just loved the connections you all made and made so much stuff make so much sense. But this day had to come because a lore break had to happen again because that's what they do. So, I'm going to give you a bit of encouragement and say you and the rest of the Zelda Theorists have done something amazing work fleshing out Hyrule for us. I hope that this upset doesn't stop you in trying again. Maybe, just taking the lore hat off of Zelda for a minute will be just what you need to refresh yourself and come back stronger. But you shouldn't stop.
As for game recommendations. Lore wise Blue Fire has something going on but I'm not the one that can tease it out. All the best Mr. Bandit.
It's not just the Spirit of the Hero that might be gone. It's the whole Spirit of the Franchise that disappeared.
Nintendo makes me feel like they just want bigger fanbase, and are ready to let go all that made Zelda, Zelda, to make a bigger Fanbase happen.
And yeah everything is Zonai now. Even the Wizzrobe. They don't have magic wand anymore, none of them. They all have Zonai Wand with an Elemental Stone.
dude. when i heard the goron dungeon was gonna be an underground ancient goron city? and in the depths? WHY DID THEY NOT MODEL IT AFTER OCARINA OF TIME's GORON CITY???????? ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY ADDED CAVES THIS GAME
You should def go into this more dude. Agree with everything you’ve said, and as someone who’s favourite series is also Zelda, the internet can be a lonely place when you didn’t enjoy TotK 😅
You’re not alone. A lot of people despised this game ngl
Zelda has the Triforce. It's not verbally hinted at, but it's shown to us. (It's barely visible in her memory of holding the MS, but in the staff credits, we get a de-saturated image of that scene where you can clearly see the whole Triforce on her right hand, clutching the MS.)
As for the founding: Fujibayashi hinted at the founding being a re-founding long after any/all game(s) of any/all timeline(s); saying there may have been a major destructive event that wiped the slate clean (whether that is a satisfactory answer is up to the player). So thank God, so far, no lore has been contradicted, "just" pushed aside/is so far in the past that it's existing, but irrelevant to a degree. (Which you mentioned in the vid.)
But I definitely understand the frustration, because there is no going back (unless a game releases that plays in the past, which is unlikely I believe).
The MS was not always all powerful. In WW(HD), when the sages were dead, it could not even slice Ganondorf (meaning he could touch the blade, it touched him, maybe even break it) In TP(HD), Midna could be near the blade and ridding Wolf-Link of the curse seemed like a choice by the sword rather than an effect.
In SS(HD), Ghirahim can hold the tip of the blade without suffering.
I think the phrase "Evil may never touch it" means not that it can't, but that it should never be allowed to.
"Hello, I am still watching this, down below. You know. Just do that."
My fav. franchise besides TLoZ... that's a hard one. I'd say Mass Effect 1-3. Currently, as replied to your pinned comment, diving into the Xenoblade series. I like that so far.
Fujibayashi didn't hint at anything, he said its possible. It was a non-answer to allow anyone to decide what they wanted. Which is exactly what lore enthusiasts do NOT want. They want answers, not more half-hearted "oh it can be whatever you want". It just further shows they don't care. (But tbh, they never really cared that much.)
The refounding theory falls apart in numerous different ways as is. Its easily one of the worst ideas given it completely contradicts what the game itself is trying to tell us. That doesn't mean what the game is trying to tell us makes much sense either, but "refounding" further doesn't make sense either. In context, I think Fujibayashi wasn't even talking about a far future founding, they were talking about how the "Kingdom of Hyrule" was established at the end of Skyward Sword, and this doesn't resemble that founding at all.
(That's not actually what happened, according to Hyrule Historia. According to HH, after Skyward Sword was the Era of Chaos, _then_ the founding of Hyrule, which actually lines up a lot better with this lore; King Rauru established a peaceful kingdom after a long era of chaos. TOTK Ganondorf believes the chaotic era made people stronger and he sets to prove Rauru wrong. But Fujibayashi doesn't know enough about the series lore to care much about this.)
@@JaidynReiman Given it's the first thing that came to his mind when asked makes it a strong contender.
The pre-story of Minish Cap has to happen between SS and MC. TotK's past has no place there, given that it spans a long time, Zonai descending and departing included.
A destroyed Hyrule would result in a time of chaos as well.
Nothing you mentioned invalidates the idea of a re-founding.
It also would make everyone involved in OoT less foolish, since such a massive war would be fresh in history books and minds alike. Trusting another Ganondorf (another thing that'd suck and diminish Ganondorf's role of that time) after that makes the king look even dumber.
Not to mention the castle issue, being built and re-built or moved apparently.
No, TotK's past being between SS and MC makes less sense than having it long after any timeline's last game.
I'm REALLY glad you posted this. Thank you for sharing this. Once again, you put my thoughts to words.
I believe TotC suffered from the same problem that many games are currently suffering from: they all have subversive storylines. I was watching a Bellarus video on the breakdown of lore within WoW and realized when you put this video out that Zelda now has the same problem. They want to subvert expectations of fans without the substance. They only tell the story through vague subtext without the solid setting and backstory to make subtext worthwhile. I would love to hear more of your thoughts about this ongoing problem
For old series, I can see the appeal of them trying to re-invent themselves and surprise people. But stopping to think about it, I am curious why they cannot do this using the ingredients they themselves put in their cupboard? The Legend of Zelda lore has so many ingredients that using them in new and interesting ways and subverting expectations in a positive manner shouldn't be that difficult. Provided they have folk who actually know about the lore, and think about the lore. It begins to feel to me like many times fans are more in the loop on lore than developers, and as an aspiring author myself (noting here I am not a game developer) it does come off as a bit baffling how these development teams struggle to join the rather rich lore with new ideas for new games into a coherent and juicy package.
A lot of the times, it feels like developers even want to just start from a fresh table, rather than tinkering and having someone in the loop deal with the world building and storytelling to make it all excitingly interesting. Lore masters in these teams don't seem to get too well utilized.
@@videocrowsnest5251 Exactly. At this point fans care more about the lore than Nintendo does and it's sad
I feel your frustration. For me it’s the fact Nintendo didn’t commit to the bit when it came to Zelda’s sacrifice. When she draconified I was like HOLY SHIT A GAME FINALLY WITH SOME PUNCH TO THE TITLE BEING ‘THE LEGEND OF ZELDA’
Only for them to deux ex machina reverse trap card on her transformation and make her human again.
Would it have been sad if she stayed a dragon? Sure. But it would’ve made her sacrifice all the more memorable and impactful not just for the people of Hyrule but for players.
It was a fun game to play absolutely. But it’s tainted with that disappointment.
Hello, I'm still watching this.
Anyway... (Warning! mucho texto incoming.)
"Gameplay is king" is the mindset I've had pretty much forever. So believe me when I say, I NEVER thought a game's story would so heavily effect my opinion on it. And yet, Tears of the Kingdom proved to me, that I value lore and story FAR more then I ever thought I did.
Breath of the Wild's story was always great to me. Using Link's amnesia to it be intertwined with the open-ended nature of the game was perfect, and how they skillfully integrated it with the existing timeline while also leaving it open to interpretation as to whether it was at the end of one time-line or another, or even a convergence of sorts was genius for theory crafters.
And then comes Tears of the Kingdom... Which borderline rewrites BotW to further disconnect it from the timeline, by making it where Calamity Ganon is now just some new guy named Ganondorf. rather than the classic Ganondorf we all know and love. Thus, nothing to the greater Zelda-lore.
Turns the Zonai (which prior to TotK were some of the most interesting people in the series) into aliens...? Who wield magical super MacGuffins that bestow upon the user the power to destroy the Master Sword, rewind time, fire crazy death lasers, summon spectral versions of the user, transform you into an immortal dragon, UN-transform you from being an immortal dragon, and basically anything else the writers need at the time.
Does even less with the concept of the Three Golden Goddesses and the Triforce then Breath of the Wild, or even Age of Calamity.
All while using BotW's memory system to terrible effect. Having a very linear story that you can experience out of order really screws with what's happening in the present story, and at it's worst can make all the characters (Link especially) look absurdly stupid, constantly chasing a Zelda they know is fake.
To quote Revali. It's just...asinine.
I went through the whole game and the side quests. Did just about everything. I have the same feels. It still feels like a really large DLC. We really didn't learn more about the Zonai aside from what two of them looked like. It feels like they tried to Majora's Mask this but with a whole lot more time to develop a story and still didn't live up to the sequel tag. A lot of things just amount to random a** pulls for plot reasons. 6/10 - could have been better.
Still watching this!
I have to say that I enjoyed the story more in TotK than I did BotW, but I get your points, and agree with a good number of them (sky islands, post temple sage cut scenes, etc), and I truly appreciate your opinions on the game!
As for series, I was always looking forward to Metroid stuff when you were playing Dread!
Edit: this just randomly popped into my head, but what about diving into the world of Psychonauts?
The other biggest problem with the game that I noticed specifically is they did nothing with the concept of jumping through time in regards to the time skip between breath of the wild there was so much more that they could have done and they just didn't the only real thing is the school and to have a giving up the mantle but we didn't really get to see how high will change it was more minor stuff like you know the camp.
Im in a bit of the same boat, I’m a artist who did a lot of totk fanart before the game came out,
Since then I’ve barely drawn anything from it, I just don’t care about the game.
My art output has slowed down a ton.
Hi. I'm still watching this. :) If you got into Zelda because of lore and story and music, I highly recommend trying the Xenoblade series. It actually handles its lore well and respects the stories they tell. Zelda used to be my favorite franchise. But that changed when I got into Xenoblade. The entire numbered trilogy is so good, ending with the DLC of Xenoblade 3. If you love lore and stories having connections to each other while also telling its own story, few other franchises does it as well as Xenoblade.
this is so true
This is my pipeline. I loved MM and Twilight Princess being connected.
I completely agree with you. I liked TotK and had fun, but I know that’s only because I haven’t played BotW since shortly after its release. I’m not a fan of the open world idea for Zelda since the linear formula was more fun for me so I could experience the story as it happened and I liked the structure for dungeons and the over world. Everything trying to be open world these days is overwhelming because there’s just so much to do it’s not even fun to try to do things since I know it’s just going to be tedious, like Korok seeds and boring fetch quest side quests. The lore felt like an after thought since these games were more about the open world experience and gameplay which is fine, but I think the nonlinear story telling also made it difficult to really give more answers. Like it’s cool to have some things up to interpretation and speculation, but it would be great to have some answers to major aspects of lore.
I think, along with what you've mentioned in this video, my biggest gripe with TotK in terms of lore are the questions that it leaves us about BotW. Like... where are the Divine Beasts? Where are the Sheikah shrines? The Sheikah towers? All of the Sheikah stuff is MIA outside of the slate, and even then its called something completely different???
Also Hello, I'm still watching this!
And It's even more dissapointing when the developers confirmed that the sheikah stuff "just vanished because it had fulfilled it's purpose"...
@@Pupsuli I didn't hear that. That's so lazy. That's "Somehow Palpatine returned." levels of lazy.
@@Pupsuli That is so fucking dumb. Like, they made it a whole point of the DLC to give Link his own Divine Beast. Did it just up and vanish while he was riding it around???
@@ultimatex1334 apparently... :')
Then went as far as the ending to botw where Zelda says one of the Devine beasts stopped working like Wth happened to make it stop working ?
No cuz it felt like this for a while and you've got so many good points
Gameplay 9/10
Story 3.5/10
My disappointment 12/10
Not "Demeon King? Secret Stone??" 🤣🤣🤣
Holy Smokes! Someone FINALLY said it. I couldn’t even finish this game, I was so broken-hearted about all the lost opportunity. A really good game series that has fantastic lore continuity is Baldur’s Gate- currently obsessed with playing BG3
I love Metroid and Xenoblade, and I’d be interested if you talked about those series. In my experience Zelda fans often intersect with those 2 franchises.
I enjoyed playing totk but I genuinely had more fun watching all the speculation about what it would be rather than what it actually was. It was a fine game! I’ll play it again someday but it did not give me the feeling botw did and DEF did not give me the feeling wind waker (my fav game) gave me. Your reasoning is valid and from what I can see, you aren’t alone
Hello! I am watching this. Also, I'm a big fan of the Xenoblade Chronicles series personally. It might take a lil while to get into the lore of, but it's incredibly interesting and the worldbuilding is fascinating. It has a lot of room for people like you theorising and explaining the lore.
I honestly do think the biggest disappointment was when the master sword broke. I stopped playing for some reason, and now I am thinking it’s because the game is not what I was expecting. How could you break the master sword😭💀
I think breaking the master sword was a really cool idea since it showed how big of a threat this ganondorf was while setting a main goal for the game, but the payoff was just too weak. If the master sword was at least as powerful and as durable as it was post trial of the sword, it would’ve felt way better
I agree with all of your points here! I haven't even finished TOTK because I am so meh about it.
honestly i think the richness of the "new" lore in botw/totk will actually grow as subsequent games release. you can't really craft intricate theories without use of the games that came before, and i think any of the "loose end" stuff from these titles can eventually be utilized in subtle ways in future titles. i also think the fact the land of hyrule literally exists forever, cyclically, makes the most sense within the overarching themes of the series - of course a land that's guaranteed to exist for all of time so long as the triforce exists will have infinitely interconnected and infinitely unrelated things happening in the past, present, and future. time manipulation is clearly a very real thing within the fabric of the universe of those games, so the "lore" getting twisted in ways where it contradicts itself or doesn't make sense linearly is actually the most logical way to handle it, and also makes lore+theory videos more unique. each and every person will be able to form their own lore connections with every new game. i do wish there had been more connectivity, but if i know anything about how much care they put into zelda games, they will hear these criticisms loud and clear and will keep it in mind during development of the next major title. also... demon king?? secret stones????
I am exactly on the same page!!! It feels so good hearing someone else say what I was frustrated about! I've felt so alone on this.
On the one hand I would argue Nintendo never cared THAT MUCH about the connected lore for Zelda, they could have made the games way more explicitly connected like Wind Waker to OOTB was if they wanted.
However even when they weren't explicitly connected like my example it felt like Nintendo was willing to throw the lore fans a few bones with each game and it was almost always just enough to come up with cool ideas and theories. TOTK sadly doesn't even wanna do that in a lot of ways
Hello, I'm still watching this.
My favorite franchise is the Earthbound/Mother series. I love how the Mother games can be both unabashedly silly and bizarre as well as grounded and emotional (Mother 3 takes both of these aspects to the extreme, which is why it's my favorite game). It's also cool to see how these games got more polished and streamlined as the series progressed, both with gameplay mechanics and storytelling.
I honestly feel the same way about ToTK 😞
couldnt agree more. would love to see you make videos about the Elder scrolls.
I remember encountering the Statue of the Eight Heroine in Tears of the Kingdom and being thrilled when I saw there was a puzzle on it. I immediately stopped whatever I was doing, glided to that area, solved the puzzle and entered inside only to find…Tingle’s hat. One of the most intriguing locations in Breath of the Wild was nothing more than the storage area for a crappy outfit piece. That was the moment my hype dimmed and I realized Tears of the Kingdom was not going to reward the curiosity that Breath of the Wild strived so hard to evoke in players.
Pease don’t apologize for critiquing the game. I greatly enjoyed Tears of the Kingdom, it captivated me with it’s gameplay and although the story was far from perfect, it at least pulled me in while I was playing it. But that doesn’t mean the game doesn’t have it’s major flaws and that those flaws aren’t worth talking about. Positive experiences aren’t the only valid experiences.
Btw, hello I am still watching this ❤
This but the labyrinths. A whole 3 floating labyrinths and all you get is a phantom ganon costume. I get it has shrines but I was so disappointed after each boss fight. I feel like there just could’ve been a better costume or sages wills there instead.
@tinkerbestie I think if there is anything we can learn about the Era of the Wild games, it's that the Zelda team as it stands is more interested in the thrill of the journey rather than the value of the reward at the end of it. Which is a bit of a problem when you have a massive open world that you dont really have a reason to fully invest yourself in. Don't get me wrong, the puzzles are great and worth doing just because they're fun, but when you're constantly running around this vast world doing things 'just because'--things quickly become repetitive and video gamey rather than interesting and immersive.
This is so refreshing to hear, it felt like there weren't many of us that thought this when the game was showered with so much praise, I thought maybe there was something wrong with me and that I was stuck in the past or something, but it seems it's because these games disregard the other Zelda games, TotK even ignores some things BotW did which is really jarring, like the Sheikah tech. But I think the thing that makes me the most sad is that these two don't really feel like the Zelda games from before, I even thought "Is this even a Zelda game anymore" and felt kind of empty throughout it. Perhaps I'm just nostalgia blind, but the feelings are there and true.
I'm glad we're honest about this, it makes me feel less alone about it. A friend of mine seemed to enjoy it but he never played Zelda games before, I envy him. In any case though, I hope the next Zelda game will be epic and grand, and I hope you all have a great day ^^
The switch up on breath of the wild is crazy