JJ should be careful with his comments. Because 30-50 years from now kids will say Lebron, Curry, Giannis & KD played against streamers, podcasters & Tiktokers!
For 12-year old kids, anything that happened 10 years before they were born is ancient history. No doubt kids in 2050 will find a way to diminish Lebron and KD's legacy even if the stats are staring them in the face. They will downplay the teams they played against, and the players they played against like Kawhii, CP3, Giannis, Harden.
That’s where it comes from. His ego tells him he’d have been the GOAT back in the day but he wasn’t lucky enough to play back then. No, he’s the plumber. And he’d have been the plumber back then. Born in that era he’d be playing the same old style as everyone else, as a role player.
Bob Cousy is a legend. He invented showtime. He was Magic Johnson before before Magic Johnson. Don't forget, the Celtics dominated via fast break basketball. These guys were fast. Played all 82 games. Went to the finals for a decade straight. And even with all those miles on their bodies, they still ran young players out of the building. JJ speaks with his mouth. Bob spoke with his game and his championships.
In black and white film you see all the behind the back between the legs passes and slick dribbles. His role was to distribute not score. Anyone talking about his shooting percentage is a casual and JJ proved why playing in the league doesn't mean you know the game
Played all 82 in a much more physical league. Players these days are asking for the season to be shorter. JJ is delusional with comments like that. They were plumbers and shit because they had to have side jobs because the nba wasn’t as rich as it is now. It has nothing to do with talent. The best dunkers in this day and age aren’t even in the nba they work jobs like Walmart and golds gym and places like that. So what’s that mean? Current players have zero intelligence when it comes to the game.
@Kana Jingly I applaud you for taking the time to watch an old game like that. Shows how much you love the game. I often watch old games myself. Game was just more fun to watch back then. Honestly a lot of current NBA players can learn a lot from you. I think I’m todays game the players are more in love with the lifestyle than they are the actual game of basketball.
I think Jerry West was right. I love JJ but he got caught up in the meme of making fun of players from an older time. The bottom line is that guys like Bob Cousy dominated their respective eras, and that makes them historically great players.
and yet...jj saying bob played against fireman(meaning NBA players had 2nd jobs) was correct. the tone was crazy but the words were correct. JJ's not in the wrong. Also neither is Jerry. He's just defending his era(well..himself really) like JJ was.
@@rileyhaley3848 this is an irrelevant question. did you know wilt chamberlain averaged more than everyone but michael in league history? and him and michael are basically neck n neck...did you know that? what does that matter? first of all... JJs not playing against fireman and plumbers. He's playing against better players. Take prime JJ and throw him back to 1950s and he'd dominate. Not because he's inherently more gifted than a bob cousy, but because of evolution and the growth of the game He's basically been prepared at a much higher level than almost all of the players in the 50s were. Not a knock on them that's just reality. JJ in his prime was a 6'4 200 pound sg with a 33 in vert and a great mid range(yes mid range) and 3 pt shooter. He had good touch around the rim. not a good ball handler in the current NBA, but for the 50s JJ would be elite. look at the space many players got on their jumpers. JJ would eat that up. Is it fair? no...because they don't have the benefit of players paving the way for them for decades that JJ does. They don't have the technology that JJ does. They don't have the freedom to focus almost solely on basketball like they do now, and a slew of other things. But that's the point.
@@rileyhaley3848 the point he was trying to make is that everyone is more skilled now because everyone has the money dedicate their life to the craft of basketball. Therefore it’s harder to be good when the competition is all good.
The only thing you can accurately judge is how well somebody did during their era against the competition they faced. In this regard, Bob Cousy was A LOT more successful than Chris Paul and JJ Redick combined. If Chris Paul played back then, he would've had a 2nd job as well, and not been able to palm the ball, as it was called back then. No 3-pointer for JJ either. To a large extent, we are all products of our time.
Exactly. You could say the same of Babe Ruth and every other past athlete. You can only compare them to their competition at the time. Humans have evolved. The only sports where athletes are not better than decades ago are boxing and horse racing.
Agreed 100%. Being from Europe I wished the soccer GOAT debates had an end. Messi would've kicked Maradona's behind and Maradona would've done it to Pelé even though Pelé wore boots like 5kg each.... People don't understand that every era in any sports is different. Wilt, Bill, Kareem, Bird, Magic Jordan, Kobe, Steph, LeBron.. they are all BB royalty
When the Logo stated JJ's stat line, it was more in reference to how did he impact the game. JJ has a right to have an opinion, but when you come against a legend who put the point in point guard, and although he had a very good career, it pales in comparison to the imprint of Cousy, you've got to slow your role.
Yeah he does that alot. Just like he tried to say Mad Dog was having "racial undertones" in another argument with no proof at all it just "felt like it" He is a bum.
Do people forget that Bob and other all-stars also helped get the player's association started soo that young players like my generation get more money and better benefits than relying on a different job's benefits? He was even the first president of the NBPA.
Jerry West didn't bring up JJ's 12pts a game to say, who is this guy. He brought it up to show that we can poke holes in anyone's game and that isn't fair, so don't do it to Bob Cousy.
@@pgf2940 more skilled? no, Lukas game is just like the 70s and 90s which is more players do the same kind of style like west, rick barry, oscar, havlicheck, dann issel, alex english, bob petit, connie hawkins, walt fraizer, earl monroe, larry bird, chris mullin, elgin, mcadoo etc. Skills cannot be measured, those old guys can still dominate this era because they are skilled. Nobody is more skilled than MJ regardless of era , that time period tells you what you have done, look at kyrie he got the so called skills but he will be like journeyman that can't go any further
JJ Redick plays no defense, shoots above .400 from the perimeter, but only averages under 15? Why are people still talking about this lol. JJ Redick was underworked and overpaid his entire NBA career, there's no way around that, he wouldn't have to face this reality if he just kept his asinine opinion in his head where it belongs. OVERPAID, JJ REDICK WAS OVERPAID. What he said was literally disrespectful.
He is literally paid by ESPN for his asinine opinion lol. So why would he keep his opinion in his head? Disrespectful or not it's lterally his job as an NBA analyst.
@@btrogers100 "Disrespectful or not, it's literally his job as an NBA analyst", what? His job as an analyst is to imply that underpaid players in the past who had full time jobs were actually bad at basketball? Yea, it's not, shut the fuck up.
People laugh at Kenny Smith for talking a bigger game than he actually had. Well Kenny's best season was 17 points and 8 assists. He was a better player than Reddick lol. 😅
If JJ Reddick switched birthdays with Bob Cousy he wouldn't have been good enough to play in the NBA. If Bob Cousy switched birthdays with Reddick he'd still be an all NBA player. Give a guy like Cousy all the resources of today (elite coaching from an early age, advanced film study, strength and conditioning, private air travel, no 2nd job outside of basketball) the sky would be the limit. However, if Reddick had to come up in Cousy era he wouldn't have made it in the NBA because of the lack of resources. Just like Russell told Jordan after The Bulls finished their 1st three peat (Jordan told Bill it was easier to win championships when he played) Paxson would have been sitting in the stands during my era, so you couldn't have won that last championship lol. Basically telling Jordan you're winning in a watered down league.
@@John_Hoover Yes, by this logic MJ would have had better teammates. (hard to imagine having a better teammate than Scottie though) But the point Bill was making to MJ was every team he played against was a good team because of the limited openings in the league at the time, there were no scrubs in the league. He only made this point because MJ tried to diminish his championships saying there were only 8 teams in the league.
@@kyleolson279 Yes, but I’m not really disagreeing with that. I just push back on the idea that Jordan wouldn’t have won because Paxson would have been watching from his couch. Ok, then swap in an even better player from the 60s or 70s and Jordan STILL would have won. What Jerry is basically saying is “you only won because you had a poorer player alongside. You wouldn’t have won with a guy from our era.” Huh???
I just think it's a shame that in the NBA's 75th anniversary year the discussion has been about what players like Cousy WEREN'T rather than what they were. Especially as guys like cousy and pettit were there when the league started, are still around and likely won't be much longer. I was watching some cousy highlights his vision seems very very good and he was doing things nobody else at the time was doing. Oh and in 1961 he was 6th in mvp voting behind russell, pettit, baylor, wilt and oscar, none of whom are remembered as plumbers with the possible exception of wilt who was an accomplished pipe-layer
Ironically being able to play a rigorous NBA schedule and then go work at your 9-5 like a hard working citizen is actually harder than just playing Basketball as a career and builds character. JJ reddick is all the way wrong here.
JJ disrespected. Read the situation upside down. The plumbers and fire fighters made the NBA what it is today, so that JJ can earn what he earned. I love JJ but he better take this L and improve.
If Wilt and a lot of the old skool players had all the advantages that they have to day training , nutrition travel etc... and all the benefits of seeing others JJ prolly wouldn't have made the league ijs we benefit from watching and emulating and tryna make it progress they where the originators much respect because without them there is no you tbh
Yeah Wilt was a legit monster athlete of his generation. If he had access to sports science and advanced training facilities, it would be a scary image.
JJ would’ve been a regular dude. True stats don’t just roll over. He would’ve played the same style of ball they played in that era. Would’ve been average at best. Also no 3pt line, JJ barely crackin 10 pts/game
If you take JJ as is he is right now, with all the training, conditioning and knowledge he’s accumulated, there’s no doubt he cooking people back then. There’s just no way. You guys are trippin. People were great for their era and that’s it. Ain’t no way you take a modern athlete and put them to play in the 60s they’re not cooking 90% of the league.
@@god_ingmar5103 I’m sayin, that’s given. If you take Lebron as he is now and drop him in the 60s of course he would dominate. But if he GREW UP during the 60s and played the same style of ball they did, the stat lines would be different
@@atlien5935 but that’s not what we’re talking about. In fact, that’s literally JJ’s point. That people now can dedicate their entire life to their craft whereas people back then couldn’t. So people are more skilled nowadays.
its called being the bigger man which nobody under 50 is able to do. They sit there and crack jokes and rude comments about old men. Zero class and very disrespectful. Never would have heard that 30 years ago.
West also asked, even more importantly than averaging 12 points per game, What has he ever done? What has he ever won? And because apparently Reddick was a 3 point shooter, 12 points isn't that big of a deal, that's only 4 baskets!
Every generation thinks they're the best generation. Comparing different eras is not only pointless, but also an impossible question. It's one of the most annoying topics in basketball and it's only there for the clickbait and sensationalism.
Dan should have JJ on his show and have a discussion about his comments. It feels like things were taken out of context and people are running with it.
Totally. It’s actually crazy how out of context things are being taken. JJ said this, but it was in defense of someone putting down the current generation of players. Dan trying to say he isn’t acknowledging the players that came before him is just off the ball as that’s not what that conversation was even about.
It actually wasn’t at all lmao. Those comments came from JJ attacking Mad Dog Russo on First Take for Russo always bringing up past players to trash the current players so JJ got into his feelings
JJs point was to say you can't compare modern players to anyone before 1980 because they weren't even full time players. It started because Mad Dog said Bob Cousy was better than Chris Paul and JJ said "Bob Cousy couldn't dribble with his left hand". It sounds disrespectful (and is a little) but that is precisely why he said you couldn't compare modern to pre-1980. The game just wasn't evolved. I guarantee you JJ would pay homage and respect to the work done by those players so the game became what it is.
out of context? nonsense. jj said what he said, and it was completely disrespectful & stupid. it’s 1 thing for a civilian to say this, but a player & commentator needs to be more responsible & respectful with his/her comments, and recognize previous players & generations
he would not have been playing period. With 8 teams in the league Redick would not have made the league. The more teams there are the more the league is watered down!
I’m not a fan JJ Redicks talk show commentary or podcast. I definitely wasn’t a fan of his reasonings as to why flopping is great and needed and an art form on the ESPN daily podcast. Im not into it.
If you watch actual Bob Cousy highlights, he made about five difficult passes per game back then that today's players other than Magic and possibly LeBron would struggle with now.
i’ve watched tons of those old celtics vs lakers games of the 60s and you are FULL OF IT lmao 😆 his impressive passes are RARE not the norm, and he would literally be THE WORST passing PG in the entire NBA today (if you brought him here in a time machine that is, i’m sure he’d be great if he’d grown up in this era)
The difference between Jerry West and JJ Redick is Jerry will be remembered forever because he was a great player, while JJ will be remembered for dissing great players.
70's -90s ballplayer were just so much more skilled than todays. Todays game the officials dont officiate because players excepting the Europeans have such little grasp of fundamentals.
Both Jerry West and JJ Redick were excellent shooters not that JJ would give The Logo credit for that. Of course, Mr Cutch average 27 a game vs 12 a game for JJ. 💯
JJ wasn't saying that they aren't the reason they get paid well today, it was an argument of CP3 being better than Bob Cousey and JJ's argument was that he was playing against worse players, which is true
Thats the low IQ of JJ kicks in. CHris Russo point of view is that COusy dominated his era that Cp3 cant, and that low Iq JJ start attacking Cousy dominating plumbbers and firemen that NBBA is garbage back in the day, watch the full clip, JJ said that in full hate. If you watch closely JJ takes in media and in podcast he hates old all timers. Which is why he got called out, imagine if Wilt is still alive and tell that to wilt's face. Bback in the day they dont have luxury and benefit of today's divas i mean young players
Here's some advice for young bucks...never disrespect the ones who paved the way. ESPECIALLY when the era includes the guy who is literally the GD NBA logo!
If time travel were possible, I am sure JJ would be the most dominant in the 60s. But if he were born and raised in that era, doubt he would even made the team either! Nothing to brag about when we are better than our predecessors, we learned from their experience and mistakes...
Jerry he did that because he knew that would get through to JJ. JJ needs to know his place in the pecking order, he's got no place to say shit about Bob Cousey.
Crappy shoes vs. high-quality shoes. Buses across the country and crappy motels vs. Private planes and Ritz Carlton. Limited access to gyms vs unlimited access. Ice, tape, and asperin vs. physical therapist and hyperbaric chambers. Play on a dirt driveway growing up vs. AAU from the age of 8. Gee, I wonder what generation is better.
Let me put it into perspective. JJ also kind of dissed DeBuscherre. Not only was Dave the best PF of his time he also was a terrific shooter and even Marv Albert thought he would be good today. Here is the kicker. DeBuscherre played for the White Sox and had a sub 3.00 era. JJ could not carry DeBuscherre's jockstrap as an all around athlete.
@@Gnofg oh definitely. Jerry West could have run all the camps JJ's rich ass would have attended as a teenager. The differences is who built what; those guys in the '50s-'70s even I don't understand, yet I get they built the league we love.
Jerry West is a beast. JJ think those “plumbers” couldn’t light up a normal dude off the street? Rank the best players in the world today JJ lower on the list than those plumbers r back in there day.
Funny that so many claim Kareem is a GOAT and yet he was 6 wins and 15 losses against Willis Reed from 1969 to 74 even though the Bucks won 304 to the Knicks 266. Reed was hurt so badly from 1971 on only playing in 99 regular season games in 3 years and yet the last two times that Jabbar played Reed in November of 1973, Reed held Jabbar to 18 for 40 shooting for 45% and 44 points in 86 minutes. Reed held Jabbar to 50% shooting in 21 games and for his career Kareem shot 56%. Ewing played the old bald Jabbar who shot over 58% against Ewing and Reed played the 30 and 16 Jabbar and held him to 50% shooting! Maybe a little respect for the 1960's players!
Redick is a clown...he isn't a great athlete either. He's trying to live off better players names. He ain't Michael Jordan, and if they only had 12 to 15 teams today, he never would of played a game.
Averaging 12 ppg in the past wasn’t amazing but it wasn’t horrible either. It’s still not horrible by an objective standard but with scoring the way it is now and jj being a shooting specialist, jerry is basically saying get outta here with your arrogance
The game will keep evolving and getting better. The Best player does not exist yet. The game is still very young. New training, New athletes, better equipment, coaching, etc. Today's athletes have an unfair advantage over those of yesteryear and same will be true in the future. I don't think jj would disagree and say he doesn't understand the importance of how hard it was and how it made everything possible today...just today's nba player is better than yesterday, and tomorrow's will be better than today. Just my humble opinion
The record books show that Wilt Chamberlain still holds 72 NBA records to this day. Has anyone even come close to scoring 100 points in one NBA game. Kobe got 81 which is not even close to the 100 record! LOL
It's obvious that dan didnt see the first take episode. Jj said that cp3 is more talented then cousey. Mad dog pulled cousey stats/accomplishments are better then cp3 and jj could have worded it better but said that the league is more talented now. I hear people say all the time that there is more talent in the nba now then ever, so why is it a big deal now
Naaaaah y’all this was about Mad Dog saying Cousy > CP3 in an interview where he was leaning hard into some racial undertones and JJ checked him. I’m not debating this with anyone either. I get Jerry’s point, and he’s one of the few who’s game holds up through the eras. But this had nothing to do with him or really even Cousy
Prod.snQwfall that’s just race baiting, you see people everyday on social media telling draymond he should just stop the bs and just play. He got criticized for his podcast during the playoffs, people wanted him to just play but no one said that was racist?
Don’t forget Spencer Haywood going all the way to the Supreme Court and winning his case allowing some of these ungrateful,not so talented guys today,to make all the money they do by getting into the NBA out of high school Todays players need to learn the history of the game and WHY the players in Bob Cousys era may have had to have a second job. THEY laid the foundation for the current NBA.They might also want to learn to have some RESPECT for those that came before them .
I don't think Mr. West even carries ID or cash...when you literally built: Lakers, Grizzlies, Warriors, Clippers and...MJ bear hugs you from behind and puts his arm around you, must've done *something...
Please! just watch vids of Cousy 1950's and 60's passing magic for the era! Hated Boston from NYC but loved watching Cousy! Then Pistol then Magic for pure showtime and many other wizards!
Every team from 1960- 1990 had several accomplished low post players.Now you cannot find even 10 skilled inside players in a 30 team league. Dozens of players from prior decades were accurate shooters from a 12-18 foot range. Many current players seem lost when they catch the ball near the elbow. Even guards utilized a version of the hook shot in the 1960s. Now players totally disregard such an effective offensive weapon.The highest scoring NBA season was 1960-61. Instead of denigrating the skills of those who played 60 years ago, all those cynical observers should be trying to determine how these supposed Neanderthals were able to outscore their highly revered modern players. It does not require incredible athletic ability to stand on the perimeter and wait for a.catch and shoot opportunity.
JJ said this in a debate when the other guy was completely disrespecting Chris Paul. The other guy brought up Bob Cousy. JJ simply stated this as proof that you cannot compare players from this vastly different of eras. Bob Cousy and guys like that built the game, but let’s be honest, if any player from the modern era played back then they would look like Superman. Cousy couldn’t even dribble with his left hand.
Mad Dog said he’d take Cousey over Chris Paul. JJ called debated in favor of Chris Paul of course. Jerrry West made it a little too personal. Dan Patrick is virtue signaling. This happened like months ago 🤨
To be somewhat fair to mad dog said this before that Dallas series unraveled in Chris Paul's face. Also to be fair to Dan, had someone told him that, he would had a somewhat different tone.
@@13JacksonMr points taken on Mad Dog. Still don’t agree with his take. Also Dan should be more responsible on what he says without the full context and being biased to players of old cuz it looks better.
Bill and Couseyv career overlapped but cosey was a 50s player and bill a 60s. They game changed fast. The 50s was the slowest decade in NBA history the 60s was the fastest. By around 57 when Russell got in the league you were really starting to see athletes especially at center. The 60s centers were crazy athletes at least the top 6 or 7. Voids y still handled himself in the early 60s thoigh and those guys definitely weren’t “plummets” by then
0:39 But Dan. They were making good money back then. It's just now athletes are so INCREDIBLY over paid now. Take Nolan Ryan. 1980 Nolan Ryan was the highest paid player at $1 million a year. Adjust for inflation that $3.6 million today. Max Scherzer is going to make $43 million this year. That's almost 12 times what Ryan adjusted salary. But of course its cost and arm and a leg to go to any sport no when 30 years ago it was 2 maybe 3 hours minimum wage work to see a game. My Uncle played in the NFL in the 60s and used to sell cars in the off season and I asked him years ago why they did that and he said that he and most guys worked other jobs because you never knew when your career was going to end so that's just what everyone did. And while his salary didn't sound like much it was still enough that he could pay cash for his house. Modest 1800 sqft house valued today around $300k. $300k a year is a damn good salary for a job that only last 7 months.
You don't disrespect their competition just bcos their ahead of their time. In fact redick as 2 guard, his 10-20 years behind, 2 guard skill set was thompson or mccollum. He can shoot and thats it, refuse to play D, can't dribble, can't dunk, can't create play. Not explosive. if he's black and thats all his skill set?? He won't even on dukes 3rd team.
JJ should be careful with his comments. Because 30-50 years from now kids will say Lebron, Curry, Giannis & KD played against streamers, podcasters & Tiktokers!
Ive seen people criticised the players of the 80's already and some are questioning MJ's SG conpetition in the 90's, so that is not farfetched.
For 12-year old kids, anything that happened 10 years before they were born is ancient history. No doubt kids in 2050 will find a way to diminish Lebron and KD's legacy even if the stats are staring them in the face. They will downplay the teams they played against, and the players they played against like Kawhii, CP3, Giannis, Harden.
Best response I heard about this issue is when someone posted on Twitter, ""in this version of the nba JJ, you are the plumber"" .
That’s where it comes from. His ego tells him he’d have been the GOAT back in the day but he wasn’t lucky enough to play back then. No, he’s the plumber. And he’d have been the plumber back then. Born in that era he’d be playing the same old style as everyone else, as a role player.
JJ is a pretentious pseudo-intellectual from Duke that thinks his opinions are worth more than the hardworking blue-collar plebs.
Bob Cousy is a legend. He invented showtime. He was Magic Johnson before before Magic Johnson. Don't forget, the Celtics dominated via fast break basketball. These guys were fast. Played all 82 games. Went to the finals for a decade straight. And even with all those miles on their bodies, they still ran young players out of the building. JJ speaks with his mouth. Bob spoke with his game and his championships.
In black and white film you see all the behind the back between the legs passes and slick dribbles. His role was to distribute not score. Anyone talking about his shooting percentage is a casual and JJ proved why playing in the league doesn't mean you know the game
Played all 82 in a much more physical league. Players these days are asking for the season to be shorter. JJ is delusional with comments like that. They were plumbers and shit because they had to have side jobs because the nba wasn’t as rich as it is now. It has nothing to do with talent. The best dunkers in this day and age aren’t even in the nba they work jobs like Walmart and golds gym and places like that. So what’s that mean? Current players have zero intelligence when it comes to the game.
@Kana Jingly I applaud you for taking the time to watch an old game like that. Shows how much you love the game. I often watch old games myself. Game was just more fun to watch back then. Honestly a lot of current NBA players can learn a lot from you. I think I’m todays game the players are more in love with the lifestyle than they are the actual game of basketball.
Give me JJ any freaking day. We gotta stop acting like these “legends” were actually good
@@AB-hc8cg if you think JJ is better than Jerry west in any way, shape, or form you should really consider finding a different sport to watch.
He's a HOF and literally a basketball living legend so he is entitled to say ANYTHING *he wants to say about basketball.*
Jerry West " The Logo" was spot on!! JJ was disrespectful! Jerry would give JJ 40!!
At least
I think Jerry West was right. I love JJ but he got caught up in the meme of making fun of players from an older time. The bottom line is that guys like Bob Cousy dominated their respective eras, and that makes them historically great players.
and yet...jj saying bob played against fireman(meaning NBA players had 2nd jobs) was correct. the tone was crazy but the words were correct. JJ's not in the wrong. Also neither is Jerry. He's just defending his era(well..himself really) like JJ was.
@@thetrib1 J.J didn't have a 2nd job and yet still averaged less than cousy?
@@rileyhaley3848 this is an irrelevant question. did you know wilt chamberlain averaged more than everyone but michael in league history? and him and michael are basically neck n neck...did you know that? what does that matter?
first of all... JJs not playing against fireman and plumbers. He's playing against better players. Take prime JJ and throw him back to 1950s and he'd dominate. Not because he's inherently more gifted than a bob cousy, but because of evolution and the growth of the game He's basically been prepared at a much higher level than almost all of the players in the 50s were. Not a knock on them that's just reality. JJ in his prime was a 6'4 200 pound sg with a 33 in vert and a great mid range(yes mid range) and 3 pt shooter. He had good touch around the rim. not a good ball handler in the current NBA, but for the 50s JJ would be elite. look at the space many players got on their jumpers. JJ would eat that up. Is it fair? no...because they don't have the benefit of players paving the way for them for decades that JJ does. They don't have the technology that JJ does. They don't have the freedom to focus almost solely on basketball like they do now, and a slew of other things. But that's the point.
@@thetrib1 And JJ is a creature of modern rule changes. He couldn’t have made the league before the three-point line.
@@rileyhaley3848 the point he was trying to make is that everyone is more skilled now because everyone has the money dedicate their life to the craft of basketball. Therefore it’s harder to be good when the competition is all good.
If not for guys like Bob Cousy, JJ Redick would be shlepping Magnolia home theater systems at Best Buy.
He went to Duke, he would still be doing something other than that lol.
@@jaydlightning2015 Like sitting at home like a bum relying on daddy's trust fund?
The only thing you can accurately judge is how well somebody did during their era against the competition they faced. In this regard, Bob Cousy was A LOT more successful than Chris Paul and JJ Redick combined. If Chris Paul played back then, he would've had a 2nd job as well, and not been able to palm the ball, as it was called back then. No 3-pointer for JJ either. To a large extent, we are all products of our time.
Exactly. You could say the same of Babe Ruth and every other past athlete. You can only compare them to their competition at the time. Humans have evolved. The only sports where athletes are not better than decades ago are boxing and horse racing.
Great comment
Agreed 100%. Being from Europe I wished the soccer GOAT debates had an end. Messi would've kicked Maradona's behind and Maradona would've done it to Pelé even though Pelé wore boots like 5kg each.... People don't understand that every era in any sports is different. Wilt, Bill, Kareem, Bird, Magic Jordan, Kobe, Steph, LeBron.. they are all BB royalty
If Chris Paul played back then he would have a second job? Sheesh. You hear some of the dumbest things online.
@@jameschunn2790 Most of the players had second jobs back then cause they weren't making enough from playing. Didn't you know that?
When the Logo stated JJ's stat line, it was more in reference to how did he impact the game. JJ has a right to have an opinion, but when you come against a legend who put the point in point guard, and although he had a very good career, it pales in comparison to the imprint of Cousy, you've got to slow your role.
Jerry West taking lives out here.
A Plumber was dunking from the FT line in Chuck Taylors with ease back then. Name one center in the NBA today that can do that
JJ said it cos he couldn't beat Mad Dog in a debate on First Take so he tossed out a throwaway comment that i think he's quietly regretting now lol
Yeah he does that alot. Just like he tried to say Mad Dog was having "racial undertones" in another argument with no proof at all it just "felt like it" He is a bum.
JJ Redick is just as trash as Skip Bayless, and Skip is a raging dumpster fire in the middle of Schitt's Creek.
@@H0VA Mad Dog told Draymond to "Shut up and dribble." If you know where that quote originated from, you can see why JJ said what he said.
Do people forget that Bob and other all-stars also helped get the player's association started soo that young players like my generation get more money and better benefits than relying on a different job's benefits? He was even the first president of the NBPA.
Jerry West didn't bring up JJ's 12pts a game to say, who is this guy. He brought it up to show that we can poke holes in anyone's game and that isn't fair, so don't do it to Bob Cousy.
Good point.
cousy averaged 18 points!
Yes, Jerry was right to fire back. My uncle R.I.P. would say, "All is fair in love and war." My great grandmother called it " Dope" 🤣🤣🤣
Those guys were stars of their time. You were a bench player in your time… all these skilled athletes he speaks of he ain’t one of them
doesn't change the fact that Current NBA is more skilled and better than the Old NBA.
@@pgf2940 more skilled? no, Lukas game is just like the 70s and 90s which is more players do the same kind of style like west, rick barry, oscar, havlicheck, dann issel, alex english, bob petit, connie hawkins, walt fraizer, earl monroe, larry bird, chris mullin, elgin, mcadoo etc. Skills cannot be measured, those old guys can still dominate this era because they are skilled. Nobody is more skilled than MJ regardless of era , that time period tells you what you have done, look at kyrie he got the so called skills but he will be like journeyman that can't go any further
JJ Redick plays no defense, shoots above .400 from the perimeter, but only averages under 15? Why are people still talking about this lol. JJ Redick was underworked and overpaid his entire NBA career, there's no way around that, he wouldn't have to face this reality if he just kept his asinine opinion in his head where it belongs. OVERPAID, JJ REDICK WAS OVERPAID. What he said was literally disrespectful.
He is literally paid by ESPN for his asinine opinion lol. So why would he keep his opinion in his head? Disrespectful or not it's lterally his job as an NBA analyst.
@@btrogers100 "Disrespectful or not, it's literally his job as an NBA analyst", what? His job as an analyst is to imply that underpaid players in the past who had full time jobs were actually bad at basketball? Yea, it's not, shut the fuck up.
@@btrogers100 he did it for the ratings and you know it
People laugh at Kenny Smith for talking a bigger game than he actually had. Well Kenny's best season was 17 points and 8 assists. He was a better player than Reddick lol. 😅
Jerry called JJ the Fireman of this era 😂
Nah, JJ couldn't pass the physical to be a fireman.
If JJ Reddick switched birthdays with Bob Cousy he wouldn't have been good enough to play in the NBA. If Bob Cousy switched birthdays with Reddick he'd still be an all NBA player. Give a guy like Cousy all the resources of today (elite coaching from an early age, advanced film study, strength and conditioning, private air travel, no 2nd job outside of basketball) the sky would be the limit. However, if Reddick had to come up in Cousy era he wouldn't have made it in the NBA because of the lack of resources. Just like Russell told Jordan after The Bulls finished their 1st three peat (Jordan told Bill it was easier to win championships when he played) Paxson would have been sitting in the stands during my era, so you couldn't have won that last championship lol. Basically telling Jordan you're winning in a watered down league.
doesn't change the fact that Current NBA is more skilled and better than the Old NBA.
@@pgf2940 Yeah but a lot of todays player wouldn't have even MADE the league in a 12 team NBA. Only the best got to make a team.
By this rationale Jordan would have played with someone EVEN BETTER than John Paxson… Hardly a way to make an argument AGAINST Jordan winning.
@@John_Hoover Yes, by this logic MJ would have had better teammates. (hard to imagine having a better teammate than Scottie though) But the point Bill was making to MJ was every team he played against was a good team because of the limited openings in the league at the time, there were no scrubs in the league. He only made this point because MJ tried to diminish his championships saying there were only 8 teams in the league.
@@kyleolson279 Yes, but I’m not really disagreeing with that. I just push back on the idea that Jordan wouldn’t have won because Paxson would have been watching from his couch. Ok, then swap in an even better player from the 60s or 70s and Jordan STILL would have won. What Jerry is basically saying is “you only won because you had a poorer player alongside. You wouldn’t have won with a guy from our era.” Huh???
Gotta love a a Laker legend taking up for a Celtic legend and vice versa.
Cousy would bust JJ’s ass... 😂🤷🏼♂️
I just think it's a shame that in the NBA's 75th anniversary year the discussion has been about what players like Cousy WEREN'T rather than what they were. Especially as guys like cousy and pettit were there when the league started, are still around and likely won't be much longer. I was watching some cousy highlights his vision seems very very good and he was doing things nobody else at the time was doing. Oh and in 1961 he was 6th in mvp voting behind russell, pettit, baylor, wilt and oscar, none of whom are remembered as plumbers with the possible exception of wilt who was an accomplished pipe-layer
LOL 😂 WILT THE PIPELAYER!
Pipe layer..classic!!
He won MVP in 1957 as well.
Ironically being able to play a rigorous NBA schedule and then go work at your 9-5 like a hard working citizen is actually harder than just playing Basketball as a career and builds character. JJ reddick is all the way wrong here.
JJ disrespected. Read the situation upside down. The plumbers and fire fighters made the NBA what it is today, so that JJ can earn what he earned. I love JJ but he better take this L and improve.
Reddick can state his opinion without insulting somebody.. Jerry West was right to call him out . Insult for an insult..
If Wilt and a lot of the old skool players had all the advantages that they have to day training , nutrition travel etc... and all the benefits of seeing others JJ prolly wouldn't have made the league ijs we benefit from watching and emulating and tryna make it progress they where the originators much respect because without them there is no you tbh
Yeah Wilt was a legit monster athlete of his generation. If he had access to sports science and advanced training facilities, it would be a scary image.
JJ would’ve been a regular dude. True stats don’t just roll over. He would’ve played the same style of ball they played in that era. Would’ve been average at best. Also no 3pt line, JJ barely crackin 10 pts/game
lololol without a three point line JJ doesn’t get drafted
JJ was a specialist. He couldn’t play in the league before the three.
If you take JJ as is he is right now, with all the training, conditioning and knowledge he’s accumulated, there’s no doubt he cooking people back then. There’s just no way. You guys are trippin. People were great for their era and that’s it. Ain’t no way you take a modern athlete and put them to play in the 60s they’re not cooking 90% of the league.
@@god_ingmar5103 I’m sayin, that’s given. If you take Lebron as he is now and drop him in the 60s of course he would dominate. But if he GREW UP during the 60s and played the same style of ball they did, the stat lines would be different
@@atlien5935 but that’s not what we’re talking about. In fact, that’s literally JJ’s point. That people now can dedicate their entire life to their craft whereas people back then couldn’t. So people are more skilled nowadays.
its called being the bigger man which nobody under 50 is able to do. They sit there and crack jokes and rude comments about old men. Zero class and very disrespectful. Never would have heard that 30 years ago.
Reddick couldn't carry Cousy or Jerry West's jock strap. Jerry West is the silhouette of the NBA logo- enough said.
West also asked, even more importantly than averaging 12 points per game, What has he ever done? What has he ever won? And because apparently Reddick was a 3 point shooter, 12 points isn't that big of a deal, that's only 4 baskets!
The worst argument ever is to compare the past players/style with todays. Pointless.
amen
Every generation thinks they're the best generation. Comparing different eras is not only pointless, but also an impossible question. It's one of the most annoying topics in basketball and it's only there for the clickbait and sensationalism.
Dan should have JJ on his show and have a discussion about his comments. It feels like things were taken out of context and people are running with it.
Nah they weren’t JJ is just an idiot and only cares about players getting paid, and his ego not getting hurt.
Totally. It’s actually crazy how out of context things are being taken. JJ said this, but it was in defense of someone putting down the current generation of players. Dan trying to say he isn’t acknowledging the players that came before him is just off the ball as that’s not what that conversation was even about.
It actually wasn’t at all lmao. Those comments came from JJ attacking Mad Dog Russo on First Take for Russo always bringing up past players to trash the current players so JJ got into his feelings
JJs point was to say you can't compare modern players to anyone before 1980 because they weren't even full time players.
It started because Mad Dog said Bob Cousy was better than Chris Paul and JJ said "Bob Cousy couldn't dribble with his left hand". It sounds disrespectful (and is a little) but that is precisely why he said you couldn't compare modern to pre-1980. The game just wasn't evolved.
I guarantee you JJ would pay homage and respect to the work done by those players so the game became what it is.
out of context? nonsense. jj said what he said, and it was completely disrespectful & stupid. it’s 1 thing for a civilian to say this, but a player & commentator needs to be more responsible & respectful with his/her comments, and recognize previous players & generations
If JJ Redick played back in that era he would have to get a summer job because of his point average
he'd probably have to get a job *during* the season too, lol
he would not have been playing period. With 8 teams in the league Redick would not have made the league. The more teams there are the more the league is watered down!
JJ is a pretentious pseudo-intellectual from Duke who thinks his opinions are worth more than the hardworking blue-collar plebs.
I’m not a fan JJ Redicks talk show commentary or podcast. I definitely wasn’t a fan of his reasonings as to why flopping is great and needed and an art form on the ESPN daily podcast. Im not into it.
JJ is super woke
JJ is crap and a far lefty who tries to virtue signal every chance he gets with his wokeness. Boring and predictable
@@woody5581 🤣
I never liked JJ Reddipshit
If you watch actual Bob Cousy highlights, he made about five difficult passes per game back then that today's players other than Magic and possibly LeBron would struggle with now.
i’ve watched tons of those old celtics vs lakers games of the 60s and you are FULL OF IT lmao 😆 his impressive passes are RARE not the norm, and he would literally be THE WORST passing PG in the entire NBA today (if you brought him here in a time machine that is, i’m sure he’d be great if he’d grown up in this era)
The argument was because one guy said he take bob over Chris Paul
Christopher Mad Dog Russo said he’d take Cousy over Paul
@@TheMan750 I know it was Russo I just didn’t want to say his name😂
@@bluebasketballinc6599 lol
Russo has a solid argument. Cousy's wizardry, style, and passing is the modern PG. Paul who is terrific has not changed the position at all.
Cousy 18/5/7 and Paul 18/4/9 it's not crazy at all to say you'd rather have Cousy.
The difference between Jerry West and JJ Redick is Jerry will be remembered forever because he was a great player, while JJ will be remembered for dissing great players.
70's -90s ballplayer were just so much more skilled than todays. Todays game the officials dont officiate because players excepting the Europeans have such little grasp of fundamentals.
The logo is such a cool nickname.
Of course, if JJ can speak out , the Legend, West certainly can respond.
Firemen and policemen are much more valuable to the rest of us than basketball players
Both Jerry West and JJ Redick were excellent shooters not that JJ would give The Logo credit for that. Of course, Mr Cutch average 27 a game vs 12 a game for JJ. 💯
Jerry West said that because JJ Reddick was being disrespectful to Bob Cousy who is a legend. In comparison who us JJ Reddick to insult a legend!!!
Guarantee he wouldn’t say that about Bill Russell.
or Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem LOL
Was Jerry West right? He was always right.
Back in those days, the world’s greatest athletes moonlighted as firemen and plumbers.
JJ wasn't saying that they aren't the reason they get paid well today, it was an argument of CP3 being better than Bob Cousey and JJ's argument was that he was playing against worse players, which is true
Thats the low IQ of JJ kicks in. CHris Russo point of view is that COusy dominated his era that Cp3 cant, and that low Iq JJ start attacking Cousy dominating plumbbers and firemen that NBBA is garbage back in the day, watch the full clip, JJ said that in full hate. If you watch closely JJ takes in media and in podcast he hates old all timers. Which is why he got called out, imagine if Wilt is still alive and tell that to wilt's face. Bback in the day they dont have luxury and benefit of today's divas i mean young players
It’s called disrespect…. wild concept I know 😂 he didn’t say he was playing against worse competition…. he said playing against firemen and plumbers….
I never heard of JJ Redick until about 2 years before he retired lol.
JJ Who?🤣
Here's some advice for young bucks...never disrespect the ones who paved the way. ESPECIALLY when the era includes the guy who is literally the GD NBA logo!
Bob Cousy and Jerry West (RIP) are both legends. JJ should have just not commented.
Jerry had every right to call out JJ the fool
JJ is a fool. If he gets the Lakers' job, they'll regret it.
If time travel were possible, I am sure JJ would be the most dominant in the 60s. But if he were born and raised in that era, doubt he would even made the team either! Nothing to brag about when we are better than our predecessors, we learned from their experience and mistakes...
Adam Wang you have no clue what your talking about if u think jj wouldn’t be a role player in that era
Jerry he did that because he knew that would get through to JJ. JJ needs to know his place in the pecking order, he's got no place to say shit about Bob Cousey.
Hey Dan Jerry West is in the HOF. JJ isn't even being mentioned for the HOF and never will be.
The logo had spoken. 🤪
Crappy shoes vs. high-quality shoes. Buses across the country and crappy motels vs. Private planes and Ritz Carlton. Limited access to gyms vs unlimited access. Ice, tape, and asperin vs. physical therapist and hyperbaric chambers. Play on a dirt driveway growing up vs. AAU from the age of 8. Gee, I wonder what generation is better.
JJ actually averaged 12.8 and The Logo rounded his a$$ down!!! LMAO!!
Cousy averaged 18 and that's rounding down lol
JJ was using stats, trying to talk shhhhtuff about Larry Bird. Why not use JJ'S stats? 12/2/2?! I didn't know the ball boys got stats too.
Of course he was! Greats would Greats in any era!
Send my regards to Jerry West, I'll stay off his lawn.
you're the snowflake in this situation buddy. Sorry that Jerry hurt your feelings
Let me put it into perspective. JJ also kind of dissed DeBuscherre. Not only was Dave the best PF of his time he also was a terrific shooter and even Marv Albert thought he would be good today. Here is the kicker. DeBuscherre played for the White Sox and had a sub 3.00 era. JJ could not carry DeBuscherre's jockstrap as an all around athlete.
@@Gnofg oh definitely. Jerry West could have run all the camps JJ's rich ass would have attended as a teenager. The differences is who built what; those guys in the '50s-'70s even I don't understand, yet I get they built the league we love.
Bill Russell looks like he was playing against plumbers in the B/W films.
The expression firing up a bone originally came from the expression "fire up a dinosaur bone"...
Jerry West is a beast. JJ think those “plumbers” couldn’t light up a normal dude off the street? Rank the best players in the world today JJ lower on the list than those plumbers r back in there day.
I mean that’s pretty much the entire point that he’s making though.
Funny that so many claim Kareem is a GOAT and yet he was 6 wins and 15 losses against Willis Reed from 1969 to 74 even though the Bucks won 304 to the Knicks 266. Reed was hurt so badly from 1971 on only playing in 99 regular season games in 3 years and yet the last two times that Jabbar played Reed in November of 1973, Reed held Jabbar to 18 for 40 shooting for 45% and 44 points in 86 minutes.
Reed held Jabbar to 50% shooting in 21 games and for his career Kareem shot 56%.
Ewing played the old bald Jabbar who shot over 58% against Ewing and Reed played the 30 and 16 Jabbar and held him to 50% shooting!
Maybe a little respect for the 1960's players!
JJ would have been a fan in those years
Nah bro 😂
Redick was such a nobody that he'll be better known for this comment than his basketball career.
Luna 💯💯
JJ should say that today's players are over rated. Paul and Westbrook and Harden And Lillard
Redick is a clown...he isn't a great athlete either. He's trying to live off better players names. He ain't Michael Jordan, and if they only had 12 to 15 teams today, he never would of played a game.
Averaging 12 ppg in the past wasn’t amazing but it wasn’t horrible either. It’s still not horrible by an objective standard but with scoring the way it is now and jj being a shooting specialist, jerry is basically saying get outta here with your arrogance
Jerry West was the MAN!
Yes west was right jj is a bum who's going to remember jj in 20 years y'all stop taking up for them bums
AFAIK, JJ hasn’t apologized or retracted what he said so yeah, he’s fair game for return fire
Like JJ but in all fairness he could never play back in the league before the three-point line.
Is JJ Redick aware that the NBA players in 2082 will be much better than todays super star max contract players?
The game will keep evolving and getting better. The Best player does not exist yet. The game is still very young. New training, New athletes, better equipment, coaching, etc. Today's athletes have an unfair advantage over those of yesteryear and same will be true in the future. I don't think jj would disagree and say he doesn't understand the importance of how hard it was and how it made everything possible today...just today's nba player is better than yesterday, and tomorrow's will be better than today. Just my humble opinion
The record books show that Wilt Chamberlain still holds 72 NBA records to this day. Has anyone even come close to scoring 100 points in one NBA game. Kobe got 81 which is not even close to the 100 record! LOL
It's obvious that dan didnt see the first take episode. Jj said that cp3 is more talented then cousey. Mad dog pulled cousey stats/accomplishments are better then cp3 and jj could have worded it better but said that the league is more talented now. I hear people say all the time that there is more talent in the nba now then ever, so why is it a big deal now
No Jerry saying JJ is who? Like JJ is NOT in Jerry West LEVEL.... Even tho, West was working 2 jobs...
Naaaaah y’all this was about Mad Dog saying Cousy > CP3 in an interview where he was leaning hard into some racial undertones and JJ checked him. I’m not debating this with anyone either. I get Jerry’s point, and he’s one of the few who’s game holds up through the eras. But this had nothing to do with him or really even Cousy
That's on jj, he could have checked Russo without disrespecting Cousy
@@IknowMoreThanYou Right!
Prod.snQwfall that’s just race baiting, you see people everyday on social media telling draymond he should just stop the bs and just play. He got criticized for his podcast during the playoffs, people wanted him to just play but no one said that was racist?
@@IknowMoreThanYou That’s absolutely fair
Don’t forget Spencer Haywood going all the way to the Supreme Court and winning his case allowing some of these ungrateful,not so talented guys today,to make all the money they do by getting into the NBA out of high school Todays players need to learn the history of the game and WHY the players in Bob Cousys era may have had to have a second job. THEY laid the foundation for the current NBA.They might also want to learn to have some RESPECT for those that came before them .
in fairness to jj he was in a discussion with an idiot.its a classic example of why you needa watch the company you keep or they might rub off on you.
They didn't have second jobs except the 15th guys on the bench.
JJ couldn’t carry Cousy’s shoes.
I don't think Mr. West even carries ID or cash...when you literally built: Lakers, Grizzlies, Warriors, Clippers and...MJ bear hugs you from behind and puts his arm around you, must've done *something...
JJ need to respect firefighters police men
Please! just watch vids of Cousy 1950's and 60's passing magic for the era! Hated Boston from NYC but loved watching Cousy! Then Pistol then Magic for pure showtime and many other wizards!
Of course he was right. Typical younger generation thinking nothing happened before they were born
Every team from 1960- 1990 had several accomplished low post players.Now you cannot find even 10 skilled inside players in a 30 team league. Dozens of players from prior decades were accurate shooters from a 12-18 foot range. Many current players seem lost when they catch the ball near the elbow. Even guards utilized a version of the hook shot in the 1960s. Now players totally disregard such an effective offensive weapon.The highest scoring NBA season was 1960-61. Instead of denigrating the skills of those who played 60 years ago, all those cynical observers should be trying to determine how these supposed Neanderthals were able to outscore their highly revered modern players. It does not require incredible athletic ability to stand on the perimeter and wait for a.catch and shoot opportunity.
JJ is just like Dramon Green. They think his new baby generation are responsible for anything good. Please.
jerrys right cmon respect the legends
JJ said this in a debate when the other guy was completely disrespecting Chris Paul. The other guy brought up Bob Cousy. JJ simply stated this as proof that you cannot compare players from this vastly different of eras. Bob Cousy and guys like that built the game, but let’s be honest, if any player from the modern era played back then they would look like Superman. Cousy couldn’t even dribble with his left hand.
I loved what Jerry said!
So you're saying that people who played in the league with Michael Jordan know just as much as Jordan because they played in the league with him?
Jj is 💯 percent correct 😂😂😂,,
Mad Dog said he’d take Cousey over Chris Paul. JJ called debated in favor of Chris Paul of course. Jerrry West made it a little too personal. Dan Patrick is virtue signaling. This happened like months ago 🤨
To be somewhat fair to mad dog said this before that Dallas series unraveled in Chris Paul's face. Also to be fair to Dan, had someone told him that, he would had a somewhat different tone.
@@13JacksonMr points taken on Mad Dog. Still don’t agree with his take. Also Dan should be more responsible on what he says without the full context and being biased to players of old cuz it looks better.
JJ said Cousy only get those 6 assists because he was guarded by firemen and plumbers.
How many points did Dan Patrick average in the NBA???
You damn right Jerry West is right.
Bill and Couseyv career overlapped but cosey was a 50s player and bill a 60s. They game changed fast. The 50s was the slowest decade in NBA history the 60s was the fastest. By around 57 when Russell got in the league you were really starting to see athletes especially at center. The 60s centers were crazy athletes at least the top 6 or 7. Voids y still handled himself in the early 60s thoigh and those guys definitely weren’t “plummets” by then
0:39 But Dan. They were making good money back then. It's just now athletes are so INCREDIBLY over paid now. Take Nolan Ryan. 1980 Nolan Ryan was the highest paid player at $1 million a year. Adjust for inflation that $3.6 million today. Max Scherzer is going to make $43 million this year. That's almost 12 times what Ryan adjusted salary. But of course its cost and arm and a leg to go to any sport no when 30 years ago it was 2 maybe 3 hours minimum wage work to see a game.
My Uncle played in the NFL in the 60s and used to sell cars in the off season and I asked him years ago why they did that and he said that he and most guys worked other jobs because you never knew when your career was going to end so that's just what everyone did. And while his salary didn't sound like much it was still enough that he could pay cash for his house. Modest 1800 sqft house valued today around $300k. $300k a year is a damn good salary for a job that only last 7 months.
You don't disrespect their competition just bcos their ahead of their time. In fact redick as 2 guard, his 10-20 years behind, 2 guard skill set was thompson or mccollum. He can shoot and thats it, refuse to play D, can't dribble, can't dunk, can't create play. Not explosive. if he's black and thats all his skill set?? He won't even on dukes 3rd team.