Dorothy reminds me of myself at this very time during 2018. Made me realize how much my family needs me, Sophia reminds me so much from my sister: Amber. We two share a lot of things together, not common in general. She was there to comfort me because my relationship with my boyfriend ended. I'm so glad to have such an understanding, badadd sister in my life. Without her; I don't know who I be talking too...😢😢😢💓💓
"Yeah, but you tolerate it." is easily the most important line here to me. Someone's complicity with intolerance and prejudice is just as terrible as being intolerant themselves.
Exactly. Just like anyone who agrees with that Omar chick is as bad as she is. I think she should be thrown out of Congress and shipped back to the Middle East since she obviously loves it there so much. She sounds like a terrorist sympathizer who hates America and Americans. What the hell is she still doing here?
@@babyhandgrenade4004 Also she's originally from Somalia which is in Africa, not the Middle East. If you're going to be an ignorant and bigoted cow you can at least get your geography right.
@@ACETYGRA Um if you had read my comment or carefully you would have seen that I said I'm against Omar. She is a terrorist sympathizer and needs to be thrown out of America. I hated my ex because he was a bigot. Why don't you try reading a little bit more carefully before making your judgment? Actually no I don't support Trump. He is the worst thing that ever happened to this country. So that's cool you're entitled to your wrong opinion.
Excellent defense, @Baby hand Grenade!! In this polarized age, people won't consider that it's possible for *anyone's* stances to consist MIXED FEELINGS... 😧They certainly don't know how to recognize mixed sentiments upon encountering them.
@@daniellevinson6975 you totally missed the point of this. If you tolerate a racist policy then you're just as bad as the people who created it. End of story.
Barbara represented the kind of person you want to respect: intelligent, accomplished, and sophisticated. However, she was also snooty and condescending, believing that many people were "not at her level." We all know people like this. The last straw for Dorothy was realizing that Barbara was willing to go along with clearly unjust policies of some exclusive "club" just to fit in and be one of the elites. People like Barbara are deeply insecure and always terrified that they're not "good enough."
I might consider it worse! A complicit person understands the harm being done... *Some* bigots, meanwhile, actually DON'T understand. (More than a few have gotten wake-up calls that forever changed their lives once they beheld the truth).
That wasn’t even really acting B . I had the pleasure of meeting her several times in Chicago and she was touring after the show and she never took that to the bullshit from anyone who was trying to discriminate
The acting that blows me away here is Bonnie Bartlett. No doubt she couldn't be more of an opposite of her character and she's so convincing in the role.
It's NOT unusual for actors to play opposites of who they are in real life! They don't want their fans to think that they have "limited" acting capabilities, and that's good!
+Mary Smith Yeah, the only thing is they were always crying poverty! In other episodes, they could not collectively afford to fix the leaky roof or even to buy a new big screen TV! :D
Bea reused some of her outfits, I seen her wear the same jacket in three different episodes, as flashy as their eveningwear was I always liked it when you'd sometimes see them wear the same thing more than once because it's relatable she's a substitute teacher how she have a neverending wardrobe and can fit a new outfit for every day of her life lol
In the last few seasons Dorothy sometimes rocked a Chanel purse and jewelry for evening. We never learn what convenience store she robbed to pay the accessories. But I’ve always explained it to myself that the larger scale of the Chanel earrings balanced her wide hips and the flatness of her chest... And then there’s Dorthy and Blanche’s negligees. Dorothy always has a different one and Blanche is usually wearing the same one. It’s incongruous when you consider who would be more likely to have sexy bedroom attire but (and I don’t remember details) it had something to do with perks in their contracts.
My aunt Dixie is exactly like Sophia. My cousin,Lonnie sue is exactly like Blanche My grandpa is exactly like Dorothy And my aunt Gianna is basically Rose
“It’s their policy, not mine.” Hm. She says that. But the look on her face and the attitude she said when she half-assed introduced herself her attitude said her true beliefs and what she really thinks.
It's the classic defense of racists and bigots everywhere. They want to avoid taking responsibility for their beliefs. "It's not ME, it's my religion/pseudoscience/my club that I choose to subscribe to!"
Luckily no club would ever refuse to allow Jewish people in. It's just not believable. Kinda ridiculous plot if you ask me. Still love the show though!
@@GameChanger597 not so much as you might think. There has been a long history in the states of not allowing Jews membership in clubs and avenues. Granted this very much the rarity now and was also less at the time of the show then in let’s say 1950 but it was there.
Dorothy could rip someone apart and not even raise her voice. Tolerating hatred like that is basically supporting it. I wouldn't give a place like that one dime. Ridiculous. I loved this scene.
S M, that's true, but I think it's stupid to belong to a club with free parking and great breakfasts if the people are rude! I, myself, would belong to a club that has all the things I love most, with people to match!
Bea Arthur probably had a hand in writing this episode more than usual. She was Jewish, so now when I watch it her tell this woman to go to hell, I watch Bea Arthur personally tell every anti-Semitic person in the world to go to hell. Good for her. I wish I'd meet her before.
***** This was actually a take from an earlier Mary Tyler Moore episode in which Mary befriends a woman (portrayed by Mary Frann) who exhibits a hostility toward Rhoda, though Mary cannot figure out why. Mary finally gets the point when her friend asks her to play tennis at her club, but rejects Mary's offer that Rhoda come along because the club is restricted. Of course, Mary ends the friendship. Ironic in this sense in that none of the three actresses, including Valerie Harper (Rhoda) were Jewish.
@@wonderwoman5732 well she's his wife he's probably been dismissive of her too look how he treated Dororthy a patient so I wouldn't be surprised if she finally had enough of him and the fact she told him to shut up so Dorothy could finish says it all
Did you see the episode of "Three's Company" where Jack's fiancee, Denise didn't like his roommates? She also wanted Jack to be something he wasn't just to suit what SHE considered acceptable! Jack broke off the engagement and cancelled the wedding.
Mark Mullins Gee, yes, an old show about four senior citizen women living their retirement years in Miami managed to wield such power that it kept the poor "straight white male" down. If this poor creature is such a pussy that somehow he can be "oppressed" by an old tv show about four little old ladies living in a house together then perhaps its time to wipe the fragile creature from this earth and start over. Put your tiny violin down, grow up, man up, and stop playing the victim--it's not cute.
@ThomasProductions2000 While those things are more likely to happen to the other demographics you've mentioned, they don't *always* happen to said demographics [Americans of Northeast-Asian descent have a social standing practically identical to that of professional-class whites, and middle- and upper-class blacks have it easier than blacks with a lower income]. Neither are heterosexual white men *guaranteed* to be spared from such bias (at least depending on socioeconic status).
Terrific show. 30 years later and I still love reruns. I hate snobbish people. You can usually pick them up a mile away. If I met her I would have said "hello, nice to meet you" and not wasted another breath.
Situations like this really show peoples true colors. For example, there’s a good chance Barbara herself has no problem with Jewish people, however the fact that she tolerates discrimination like that says a lot about her character. A lot of people are “Barbara’s”, we don’t have enough Dorothy’s. Majority of people will turn a blind eye, even if they know it’s wrong & goes against their values
> Majority of people will turn a blind eye, even if they know it’s wrong & goes against their values. True. Many many years ago some people very close to me invited me to a "club" with saunas, whirlpools, rubdowns, massages, etc. where they were screening people to "join." I barely got in the door before I saw their screening process and realized it was to keep black customers out. "SEE YA!" To this day it breaks my heart how friends/family would turn a blind eye to that, and I try and convince myself that they are victims of a bygone era train of thought (they were mostly a bit older than I) or just plain ignorant. Still I'm very hurt about how they tolerated that.
Honestly, in this particular case I suspect Barbara herself does have a problem with Jewish people, but she knows it isn't politically correct, so going places like her club allows her to hide behind the club's racist policies. I could be wrong, and I fully understand she is a fictional character. There are plenty of people who personally aren't racism that just tolerate it when others do it, perhaps partly because they don't think they as an individual can make a difference and partly because they think as long as they aren't personally being the one who is racist that it's not their place to call other people out for their racism. But when those people have the racism pointed out to them they usually get uncomfortable at some level. They start to stammer and are clearly very uncomfortable. The way Barbara comfortably brushes the criticism aside really makes me think she is the other kind of closet racist that at least doesn't think racism itself is wrong or at least that it isn't a big deal. There is an entire spectrum. There are racists who own the fact that they are racist and are even proud of it. There are racists who don't realize that they are racists and would be horrified if they realized it. And there are racists that know they are racists and personally aren't worried about it, but they know they can't express those views in public, so they pretend in public that they aren't. Barabara seems like this last kind. Of course, there are people everywhere else on the spectrum, too.
One of the best scenes from this incredible show,notice how the gutless coward had to tell Dorothy in another room instead of just saying it in front of the wonderful friend of Sophia so he couild defend himself ,super points to Dorothy for letting her have it right between the eyes and she looks great in that red/black outfit .
Yeah! That's a good point. If you got something to say, say it to his face, if you can't do that then STFU. If you're ashamed of your bigotry then you're probably ashamed for a good reason
Even greater respect for this show and Dorothy for standing up for her beliefs on equality even from her Maude days. I salute all these fine ladies and their memory!!!
This episode was a take from The Mary Tyler Moore Show. Mary befriended a woman (portrayed by Mary Frann) who disliked Rhoda, though Mary could not figure out why. The woman, though not in so many words, revealed her dislike of Jewish people, and of course, Mary ended the friendship.
I remember that episode. Mary lied to Joanne by telling her she herself was Jewish, and it was to see what reaction she'd get from Joanne. It's was a brilliant ruse by Mary being Joanne had an instant reaction of dislke for Jewish people, and Mary ended the friendship because of that.
Exactly. If you tolerate it you're just as bad as the people who perpetuate that kind of stuff. I say the same thing about child abuse or domestic violence. If you're aware that the abuse is happening and you don't do anything to try to stop it then you're just as bad as the person who's putting their hands on them. End of story.
I wondered what she knew/thought about the Mortimer Club before this (Dorothy, I mean.) She seemed excited to be going there when Barbara first invited her (earlier scene, where Dorothy and Barbara are having lunch), but also uses the words "most exclusive club in town" without making it sound like a bad thing.
And it is something how far many of us have come. Back when this aired people were firm about not tolerating or supporting things that were immoral. Now today people are more tolerant over immoral things just so a friendship can be maintained. This has happened because many have decided they don’t want God
Now that being said however all throughout time there have always been people that have tolerated immoral things. But the big majority of people didn’t tolerate immoral things back when God was welcome. And now that he is not it has opened the door for tolerance of things that should not be tolerated.
"Be inclusive" and "Don't be a racist" was not some shockingly progressive message in the 1980's. We all got along better back then compared to now. In fact, things were so much improved, our politicians needed to start brainwashing a new generation of victims to keep their power from slipping away. Forty years later, they've created more division than when this aired new.
Good for dorothy. I went through this as early as first grade. My best friend was mexican. Her name was andrea. My mother is also mexican but i look white as heck. I befriended several other white girls one of them a blonde named jessica. Jessica did not approve of my friendship with andrea. So i had to tell jessica to take a hike.
There’s still prejudice of some kind in the U.K. Blondes are favoured here whereas brunettes or girls with darker skin colours are somehow less popular at school and college. My daughter tells me this as she’s at college. It’s so sad. I thought we’d moved on from this crap.
Well said Dorothy i can’t believe there are people out there who discriminate others just because they have different beliefs or religious we’re all human beings everyone deserves love and respect and to be equal Dorothy did the right thing!👏💝🙌🤩
No one could deliver a put-down like Bea Arthur. Having said that, however, this plot was copied from a Mary Tyler Moore episode. The writers even admitted it in the book, 'Golden Girls Forever.' But they said they stole from the best!
While I do love The Golden Girls, the show did copy a bit frequently from other shows. With regard to the MTM episode, that character (played by Mary Frann) was actually worse than Barbara Thorndike. Barbara was just a snooty hypocrite, but the MTM character was definitely anti-Semitic. You could tell by the way she even looked at Rhoda.
atlantic1119, Joanne Forbes told Mary she wasn't "experienced" dealing with Jewish people. Barbara Thorndyke told Dorothy it was the Mortimer Club's policy, not hers. Either way, I didn't care, because I thought BOTH Barbara and Joanne deserved each other!
hate is real..... wow. Those of you who commented like you did, were you raised to hate other people on their race/faith/etc? I have to believe some of your families did not raise you to hate other people. what happened to looking at a person's character? how that person treats other people? Taboo?
"Let me spell it for you, go to hell." That was deep and sharp. The humiliation on Barbara's face after that showed how embarrassed she was, get her Dorothy.
The irony is Bonnie Bartlett is the antithesis of the character she portrayed. PS both women looked striking in this scene!! Bea is my favorite Golden Girl 👍
“Besides, it’s their policy, not mine.” “Yeah but you tolerate it.” I make myself watch this again from time to time. I’m ashamed to say I’ve struggled and even failed at this from time to time. But I think I’m getting better, and hearing Bea Arthur calling out tolerance of intolerance is a helpful kick in the behind.
I was a very little girl when my mum and Aunt used to watch this show. I didn’t understand any of the humour but t holds such a special place in my heart. I’ve even had the theme song for years on my iTunes account and listen to it often 🙏🏻🇦🇺
One thing that is perhaps worth mentioning about the scene is Barbara's unsuccessful attempts at redemption such as:"It's the club's policy not mine" and "We obviously can't go to the club so we'll go somewhere else". When you're screwed.You're screwed.
This scene here is exactly why I get pissed off at people who tolerate racism in any form. “They have a right to free speech!” The woman who plays Barbara honestly delivered the lines so well. She truly captured the essence of these casual racists. “Well it’s *their* rules, not mine!” Like that’s any better. Kudos to both of these actresses.
People have the right to free speech and thought. It is not your place to impose your beliefs on others . You can utilize your freedom of speech and expression and persuade them that their beliefs are wrong. Be careful of what you wish for.
@PungiFungi we as a society get to decide what we tolerate. Slowly but surely racism is one thing we aren't anymore. You're free to be racist, but everyone else is free to not associate with them and deny them access to services from private entities. Free speech only applies to the government. Everyone else can judge them and react accordingly. Nobody is obligated to treat anyone with civility, especially those intolerant people who express the most uncivil behavior towards people for their race. They don't get to say and do vile shit and turn around and demand the only appropriate response is to try and "persuade" them to be different.
Bonnie Bartlett does some great work as Barbara Thorndyke because she pulls off the character's air of pompous arrogance and, at the end, bigotry. We LOATHE her because the actress is so convincing in the part. By the way, Ms. Bartlett is still with us today at 94, and she's been married to her husband, fellow actor William Daniels (who is 96), since 1951!
Hallmark and Lifetime screwed up when they decided censoring someone telling another to go to Hell is worse than the context in which it was said. That killed the whole message.
"Why are you a member of a club like that?" Such a great question. We now live in a world where "don't judge" is a commonplace. I'm so grateful to GOD that I was raised by people who knew right from wrong. Tolerating ignorance is wrong. Period.
Absolutely! I was born into and raised on diversity, and I get angry when people make "bigoted" judgments! Dorothy was perfectly right to ask Barbara WHY she belonged to a club like that, because it gave her a better understanding of her thinking!
@@LisaKoffler Bonnie Barlett was phenomenal in this episode. She was so smug, arrogant, patronizing and insincere. Not many people know how to execute those 4 behaviors in a such a way as she did. She's just a quality actress. Think about her character on "Little House On The Prairie" talk about a stark contrast.
@@LisaKoffler Re-read what I wrote. That's exactly what I'm saying. Some actors do not know how to relay the nuances of certain character types. And that, Friend, is what causes acting to be complex. I referenced her character on LHOTP to showcase the diversity of her talents.
I miss the Golden Girls. Everything seemed so much easier in the 80s. Watching sitcoms from the 80s makes me feel safe somehow..or cozy..not sure that makes sense but it's how I feel.
I had a similar situation with an ex girlfriend. I brought her hike to meet my family and at the end of the night she said she didn't like my parents and only tolerated them because she was with me, when my family was nothing but hospitable towards her. I broke up with her the next day because I didn't want to be with someone who can't appreciate my family the same way I do.
Dorothy kept it real and that's a TRUE friend for ya! That discriminating bigot so called friend of hers was a snob...."let me spell it out to you..."GO TO HELL" 😂🤣...I LOVE DOROTHY!!
This show had more progressive views on bigotry than most people today do Tolerating racism is no better than supporting it That's what people who say "both sides should just get along" can't seem to understand
I'm surprised the Mortimer Club would also admit Dorothy and Sophia, as well, being Italian Catholic. Lots of clubs like that would ban not just Jews, but also Catholics, blacks, foreigners, you name it. Happened in my family once. My Mom's family is Irish Catholic and long ago experienced prejudice because of both. Some businesses actually put out signs "Irish need not apply" and one elderly relative recounted to me that in a public school he went to years ago, Catholics were looked at with disdain and the teachers taught only negative things about the Catholic Church in history classes. Even I have had that experience in the 21st century, and prominent historian Arthur Schlesinger once said that the last "acceptable" American prejudice is anti-Catholicism.
This is one of the reasons why Dorothy is my favorite golden girl, she's a whole combo, funny, smart, common sense and a compassionate woman and great friend.
I thought Barbara looked like Ally McBeal actress Calista Flockhart, which is kinda ironic when you consider Barbaras anti Semetism and Calistas surname! Dorothy is just as masterful and amazing as ever, and gorgeous. I need that woman in my life!
If you want to know what shocks me about this episode? The Hallmark Channel CENSORS the word "hell". Can you believe it?!? That's like censoring the word "damn" in Gone with the Wind.
The easiest way for evil to persevere is for good people to remain quiet. Just as she said, "but you tolerate it" - you either have a value or you don't. Your soul's for sale or it's not.
Poor Dorothy. You can tell in her voice she's so disappointed when she asks Barbara why she'd be in a club like that. I'm glad she finally saw Barbara's true colors. Sad that a place like that would even exist.
Dorothy is the kind of friend that everyone needs in their life.
I agree 100 ;)
absolutely! she keeps it 100.
Matt Allen me too
she was my favorite
Dorothy reminds me of myself at this very time during 2018. Made me realize how much my family needs me, Sophia reminds me so much from my sister: Amber. We two share a lot of things together, not common in general. She was there to comfort me because my relationship with my boyfriend ended. I'm so glad to have such an understanding, badadd sister in my life. Without her; I don't know who I be talking too...😢😢😢💓💓
"Yeah, but you tolerate it." is easily the most important line here to me. Someone's complicity with intolerance and prejudice is just as terrible as being intolerant themselves.
❤
Exactly. Just like anyone who agrees with that Omar chick is as bad as she is. I think she should be thrown out of Congress and shipped back to the Middle East since she obviously loves it there so much. She sounds like a terrorist sympathizer who hates America and Americans. What the hell is she still doing here?
@@babyhandgrenade4004 You clearly missed the point!
@@babyhandgrenade4004
What the hell is your problem? You are just as prejudice as Thorndyke
@@babyhandgrenade4004 Also she's originally from Somalia which is in Africa, not the Middle East. If you're going to be an ignorant and bigoted cow you can at least get your geography right.
Dorothy's "Go to hell" sent shivers up my spine. She delivered that line with such passion. Bea Arthur was NOT acting here!
taurusfroggy She was Jewish herself. This was her basically telling everyone who hated Jews what she thought.
I feel like if they could have gotten by with "fuck you" in prime time, it would have been that and not "go to hell."
No kidding on that one. Dorothy sure taught Barbara a lesson.
A variable of Katharine Hepburn's 'Get permanently lost'.
Without a doubt
If you tolerate it, you're participating in it. Dorothy has integrity and she lives it.
@@babyhandgrenade4004 Yep you support Trump and vote for Republicans who have made their hatred of LGBT people well known. You are a Barbara!!
@@ACETYGRA Um if you had read my comment or carefully you would have seen that I said I'm against Omar. She is a terrorist sympathizer and needs to be thrown out of America. I hated my ex because he was a bigot. Why don't you try reading a little bit more carefully before making your judgment? Actually no I don't support Trump. He is the worst thing that ever happened to this country. So that's cool you're entitled to your wrong opinion.
Excellent defense, @Baby hand Grenade!! In this polarized age, people won't consider that it's possible for *anyone's* stances to consist MIXED FEELINGS... 😧They certainly don't know how to recognize mixed sentiments upon encountering them.
@ACETYGRA 😡Baby hand Grenade was only talking about ONE SPECIFIC politician, 😠you fanatically self-righteous example of polarization!
@@daniellevinson6975 you totally missed the point of this. If you tolerate a racist policy then you're just as bad as the people who created it. End of story.
"It's not my policy"
"Yeah but you tolerate it "
This was so deep.
I've always HATED people like that!
Barbara tolerated people and things she didn't like, and that didn't make any sense!
@@LisaKofflerhuh?
It was Barbara's way of trying to "keep the peace," because of her relationships with people, but it STILL isn't right!
Barbara represented the kind of person you want to respect: intelligent, accomplished, and sophisticated. However, she was also snooty and condescending, believing that many people were "not at her level." We all know people like this. The last straw for Dorothy was realizing that Barbara was willing to go along with clearly unjust policies of some exclusive "club" just to fit in and be one of the elites. People like Barbara are deeply insecure and always terrified that they're not "good enough."
This scene is even more intense when you realize that Bea Arthur was Jewish.
+bibina180 Was she? Even more beautiful human being then
YES
I'm convinced bea Arthur wasn't acting.
@@marklamphear7531 i know right
@kefou kefak the character is dorothy the actress is bea
A very important lesson. Being complicit is equally as wrong as being the one who makes the rules or laws that allow people to discriminate.
Sally Streusel : Yes Yes Yes! This comment should be the most liked for this clip- so true!
I might consider it worse! A complicit person understands the harm being done... *Some* bigots, meanwhile, actually DON'T understand. (More than a few have gotten wake-up calls that forever changed their lives once they beheld the truth).
Wisest Owl this is the rule on all walks of life.
Being compliment isn't equally wrong. It's worse.
For the only thing worse than doing evil, is allowing evil to happen.
Most people are complicit in some way or another. Bullies get away with being rotten because most people are complicit.
That wasn’t even really acting B . I had the pleasure of meeting her several times in Chicago and she was touring after the show and she never took that to the bullshit from anyone who was trying to discriminate
I'm convinced she wasn't acting when dorothy said that
Bea Arthur herself was Jewish and probably had antisemitism thrown at her alot
Estelle Getty was also Jewish, and she probably went through the same thing.
The acting that blows me away here is Bonnie Bartlett. No doubt she couldn't be more of an opposite of her character and she's so convincing in the role.
It's NOT unusual for actors to play opposites of who they are in real life! They don't want their fans to think that they have "limited" acting capabilities, and that's good!
Golden Girls always had beautiful "going out" clothes.
+Mary Smith Yeah, the only thing is they were always crying poverty! In other episodes, they could not collectively afford to fix the leaky roof or even to buy a new big screen TV! :D
Bea reused some of her outfits, I seen her wear the same jacket in three different episodes, as flashy as their eveningwear was I always liked it when you'd sometimes see them wear the same thing more than once because it's relatable she's a substitute teacher how she have a neverending wardrobe and can fit a new outfit for every day of her life lol
Yes they did just beautiful evening wear!!!
In the last few seasons Dorothy sometimes rocked a Chanel purse and jewelry for evening. We never learn what convenience store she robbed to pay the accessories. But I’ve always explained it to myself that the larger scale of the Chanel earrings balanced her wide hips and the flatness of her chest...
And then there’s Dorthy and Blanche’s negligees. Dorothy always has a different one and Blanche is usually wearing the same one. It’s incongruous when you consider who would be more likely to have sexy bedroom attire but (and I don’t remember details) it had something to do with perks in their contracts.
Rue Mcclanahan put in her contract that she would keep all Blanches clothes
God, could you imagine having Bea Arthur as a grandmother? I aspire to be as classy and intelligent like her when I'm older.
I had a Dorothy type as my mother and I miss her every damn day 😔 … my mom was the best.
My aunt Dixie is exactly like Sophia.
My cousin,Lonnie sue is exactly like Blanche
My grandpa is exactly like Dorothy
And my aunt Gianna is basically Rose
“It’s their policy, not mine.”
Hm. She says that. But the look on her face and the attitude she said when she half-assed introduced herself her attitude said her true beliefs and what she really thinks.
She was like them if she tolerated it
It's the classic defense of racists and bigots everywhere. They want to avoid taking responsibility for their beliefs. "It's not ME, it's my religion/pseudoscience/my club that I choose to subscribe to!"
Luckily no club would ever refuse to allow Jewish people in. It's just not believable. Kinda ridiculous plot if you ask me. Still love the show though!
@@GameChanger597 not so much as you might think. There has been a long history in the states of not allowing Jews membership in clubs and avenues. Granted this very much the rarity now and was also less at the time of the show then in let’s say 1950 but it was there.
@@GameChanger597 Wrong. I grew up on Long Island and we had a country club in my hometown that was restricted. No Jews or Blacks allowed.
Dorothy could rip someone apart and not even raise her voice. Tolerating hatred like that is basically supporting it. I wouldn't give a place like that one dime. Ridiculous. I loved this scene.
That's why I always go for inclusive, NOT exclusive!
@@LisaKoffler Yeah you are a perfect and endlessly tolerant human being, we got it. No need to repeat it over and over again...
S M, that's true, but I think it's stupid to belong to a club with free parking and great breakfasts if the people are rude! I, myself, would belong to a club that has all the things I love most, with people to match!
@@LisaKoffler Yeah, but people are different. It's part of tolerance to tolerate that too.
S M, I agree!
It's funny because both Bea Arthur and Estelle Getty were Jewish.
Both were NY Jews. Fun Fact, the Three Stooges were ALL Jewish. The Howard Brothers AND Fine were Jewish.
Everyone's Jewish!
The Marx brothers . . .
Funny how they are Jewish and played as Italians on the show.
You can be Italian and Jewish at the same time.
Bea Arthur probably had a hand in writing this episode more than usual. She was Jewish, so now when I watch it her tell this woman to go to hell, I watch Bea Arthur personally tell every anti-Semitic person in the world to go to hell. Good for her. I wish I'd meet her before.
Not just Jews though. Such clubs were often restricted for Catholics as well.
+John M Even Miami has retained some of its "Old South" ways.
+John M All the more fitting since Estelle Getty's character, Sophia, is a practicing Catholic while Getty herself was Jewish.
***** This was actually a take from an earlier Mary Tyler Moore episode in which Mary befriends a woman (portrayed by Mary Frann) who exhibits a hostility toward Rhoda, though Mary cannot figure out why. Mary finally gets the point when her friend asks her to play tennis at her club, but rejects Mary's offer that Rhoda come along because the club is restricted. Of course, Mary ends the friendship. Ironic in this sense in that none of the three actresses, including Valerie Harper (Rhoda) were Jewish.
not really John M Catholics were fine
My favourite Dorothy dressing down is when she told off the neurologist in the restaurant after he told her she was crazy
Right in front of his wife, too. Glorious!
Her neurologist deserved it!
@@r0bw00d and his wife told him to shut up when he tried to dismiss her again
@@r0bw00dI loved it when the neurologist's wife told her husband, "Shut up, Lewis!!"
@@wonderwoman5732 well she's his wife he's probably been dismissive of her too look how he treated Dororthy a patient so I wouldn't be surprised if she finally had enough of him and the fact she told him to shut up so Dorothy could finish says it all
First you insult her mothers friend then her girlfriends. Dorothy was furious at hearing about barbaras tolerating blanche and rose after sofia
+Clement Ng In fairness, Barbara actually had no problem with Sophia.
Your Right she didn’t say anything insulting or mean about sofia but she did through rose and Blanche under the bus a few times in the series
I mean episode
Did you see the episode of "Three's Company" where Jack's fiancee, Denise didn't like his roommates? She also wanted Jack to be something he wasn't just to suit what SHE considered acceptable! Jack broke off the engagement and cancelled the wedding.
@@PintheDog Sophia woulda torn her a new one, whereas Blanche and Rose wouldn’t have said anything like Sophia did
love how progressive this show was.., such a timeless show., still holds so much relevance with today's racism and prejudice
Mark Mullins Gee, yes, an old show about four senior citizen women living their retirement years in Miami managed to wield such power that it kept the poor "straight white male" down. If this poor creature is such a pussy that somehow he can be "oppressed" by an old tv show about four little old ladies living in a house together then perhaps its time to wipe the fragile creature from this earth and start over.
Put your tiny violin down, grow up, man up, and stop playing the victim--it's not cute.
He's not calling himself a victim, chatterbox11😒...
@ThomasProductions2000 While those things are more likely to happen to the other demographics you've mentioned, they don't *always* happen to said demographics [Americans of Northeast-Asian descent have a social standing practically identical to that of professional-class whites, and middle- and upper-class blacks have it easier than blacks with a lower income]. Neither are heterosexual white men *guaranteed* to be spared from such bias (at least depending on socioeconic status).
(I do recognize that #5, #7 and #10 are exceptions.)
Terrific show. 30 years later and I still love reruns. I hate snobbish people. You can usually pick them up a mile away. If I met her I would have said "hello, nice to meet you" and not wasted another breath.
I love Dorothy she's a badass
So was Maude!
And she said things as she saw them.
She’s my favorite out of all the golden girls.
Yep she is.
This is one of my all time favourite GG moments. That stuck-up Barbara Thorndyke deserved every bit of Dorothy's "Go to hell" line.
Absolutely!
One of mine too. I think it's tied with Blanche telling her teacher to "KISS MY A!"
Personally I would never wish that on anyone.
This is why everybody loves Dorothy, forget about Raymond.
Situations like this really show peoples true colors. For example, there’s a good chance Barbara herself has no problem with Jewish people, however the fact that she tolerates discrimination like that says a lot about her character. A lot of people are “Barbara’s”, we don’t have enough Dorothy’s. Majority of people will turn a blind eye, even if they know it’s wrong & goes against their values
MOST people eventually come to their senses and realize that they've made a mistake. In the end, Dorothy told Barbara to go to Hell!
> Majority of people will turn a blind eye, even if they know it’s wrong & goes against their values.
True. Many many years ago some people very close to me invited me to a "club" with saunas, whirlpools, rubdowns, massages, etc. where they were screening people to "join." I barely got in the door before I saw their screening process and realized it was to keep black customers out. "SEE YA!" To this day it breaks my heart how friends/family would turn a blind eye to that, and I try and convince myself that they are victims of a bygone era train of thought (they were mostly a bit older than I) or just plain ignorant. Still I'm very hurt about how they tolerated that.
Great point. Kudos to the writers and amazing actors.
@@dalyand5944 very innovated
Honestly, in this particular case I suspect Barbara herself does have a problem with Jewish people, but she knows it isn't politically correct, so going places like her club allows her to hide behind the club's racist policies. I could be wrong, and I fully understand she is a fictional character. There are plenty of people who personally aren't racism that just tolerate it when others do it, perhaps partly because they don't think they as an individual can make a difference and partly because they think as long as they aren't personally being the one who is racist that it's not their place to call other people out for their racism. But when those people have the racism pointed out to them they usually get uncomfortable at some level. They start to stammer and are clearly very uncomfortable. The way Barbara comfortably brushes the criticism aside really makes me think she is the other kind of closet racist that at least doesn't think racism itself is wrong or at least that it isn't a big deal. There is an entire spectrum. There are racists who own the fact that they are racist and are even proud of it. There are racists who don't realize that they are racists and would be horrified if they realized it. And there are racists that know they are racists and personally aren't worried about it, but they know they can't express those views in public, so they pretend in public that they aren't. Barabara seems like this last kind. Of course, there are people everywhere else on the spectrum, too.
One of the best scenes from this incredible show,notice how the gutless coward had to tell Dorothy in another room instead of just saying it in front of the wonderful friend of Sophia so he couild defend himself ,super points to Dorothy for letting her have it right between the eyes and she looks great in that red/black outfit .
Yeah! That's a good point. If you got something to say, say it to his face, if you can't do that then STFU. If you're ashamed of your bigotry then you're probably ashamed for a good reason
I was told not to talk about people behind their backs for the same reasons!
You tell her, Dorothy!
Even greater respect for this show and Dorothy for standing up for her beliefs on equality even from her Maude days.
I salute all these fine ladies and their memory!!!
alus nova top, bottom or vers?
"Why are you a member of a club like that?"
BxGirl Blazin'
BxGirl Blazin'
A question that should be asked of a LOT of people!
That Barbara bitch likely owned a copy of Mein Kemf!
It's like claiming to support LGBT rights and eating out at Chick Fil A. Wtf is wrong with people?
I love how Dorothy tells Barbara take a hike to that snob.
She told Barbara to "Go to Hell!"
" let me spell it out for you, go to hell" I love Dorothy
If this was rated R, she would say, “Go f*** yourself.” 🤣🤣🤣
This episode was a take from The Mary Tyler Moore Show. Mary befriended a woman (portrayed by Mary Frann) who disliked Rhoda, though Mary could not figure out why. The woman, though not in so many words, revealed her dislike of Jewish people, and of course, Mary ended the friendship.
+atlantic1119 The woman asked Mary to play tennis with her at a club that was restricted.
I remember that episode. Mary lied to Joanne by telling her she herself was Jewish, and it was to see what reaction she'd get from Joanne. It's was a brilliant ruse by Mary being Joanne had an instant reaction of dislke for Jewish people, and Mary ended the friendship because of that.
Yes,remember that episode. Excellent!
Did any one secretly wish that Blanche and Rose would trip Barbara on her way out?
Yes
I never thought of that now that you've mentioned it it's a yes
I remember "The Nanny" when Fran tripped Maxwell's ex-girlfriend after she insulted Maggie.
That was a beautiful moment always cherish your true friends..
🤔 So tru.
No one should tolerate bigotry!!! It is awesome that television shows examples on how not to tolerate it!!
Exactly. If you tolerate it you're just as bad as the people who perpetuate that kind of stuff. I say the same thing about child abuse or domestic violence. If you're aware that the abuse is happening and you don't do anything to try to stop it then you're just as bad as the person who's putting their hands on them. End of story.
I wondered what she knew/thought about the Mortimer Club before this (Dorothy, I mean.) She seemed excited to be going there when Barbara first invited her (earlier scene, where Dorothy and Barbara are having lunch), but also uses the words "most exclusive club in town" without making it sound like a bad thing.
And the thing is it's more subtle and Barbara may not be antisemitic herself but the fact she's ok with it
Its unfortunate but true that people like Barbara Thorndyke are very common in the real world today.
There will always be Barbara Thorndykes in this world, and that's very sad.
@@LisaKofflerI know, they’re a pollution waste just like Karens.
And it is something how far many of us have come. Back when this aired people were firm about not tolerating or supporting things that were immoral. Now today people are more tolerant over immoral things just so a friendship can be maintained. This has happened because many have decided they don’t want God
Now that being said however all throughout time there have always been people that have tolerated immoral things. But the big majority of people didn’t tolerate immoral things back when God was welcome. And now that he is not it has opened the door for tolerance of things that should not be tolerated.
Golden Girls being progressive AF back in the 80s? Brava! No wonder it's got such a huge following thirty years later! 💖
"Be inclusive" and "Don't be a racist" was not some shockingly progressive message in the 1980's. We all got along better back then compared to now. In fact, things were so much improved, our politicians needed to start brainwashing a new generation of victims to keep their power from slipping away. Forty years later, they've created more division than when this aired new.
There's nothing wrong with progressiveness.
I hate Barbara Thorndyke but Bonnie Bartlett is an amazing actress!
It's hard to play a role of a person so unlike yourself. She gave a strong performance.
Bonnie is talented and beautiful. Love her as an actress
She’s married to William Daniels aka Mr Feeny
She definitely took a bit of a leap here, as she normally played sweet and wholesome women.
She shares my birthday day. She seems really nice …
Proud of her for standing up for what's right!!
I'm the same way myself!
"Let me spell it out for you...Go To Hell!"
I swear, if this was rated R, she would say, “Go f*** yourself.” 🤣🤣🤣
Dorothy gives no F’s and this scene shows it. She spills the truth and is not afraid to say it. We all need someone like her in our lives
Beatrice Arthur was Jewish, and I'm Jewish myself, so I also tell people off IF they truly deserve it!
"Lemme spell it out for you. Go to Hell."
Badass.
Wow it doesn't matter what age you are you can still stick it to someone and be bad-ass about it. Just ask rose and Dorothy
I freaken love Dorothy
When Dorothy tells you off just be quiet and walk away.
Or putting it firmly in "Dorothy language"..."walk away now and no one gets hurt".
Maude was the same way!
Good for dorothy. I went through this as early as first grade. My best friend was mexican. Her name was andrea. My mother is also mexican but i look white as heck. I befriended several other white girls one of them a blonde named jessica. Jessica did not approve of my friendship with andrea. So i had to tell jessica to take a hike.
Good for you
There’s still prejudice of some kind in the U.K. Blondes are favoured here whereas brunettes or girls with darker skin colours are somehow less popular at school and college. My daughter tells me this as she’s at college. It’s so sad. I thought we’d moved on from this crap.
People like Jessica don't deserve respect!
I absolutely love how gracefully this show aged. It still feels relatable after 30+ years
Her expression when she says "go to hell". 👌
This show makes me feel better about life. I hope in my golden years I have best friends like these girls
I admire Dorothy ‘s humility at admitting she was wrong.
She apologized for her mistake.
Everyone looks so beautiful.
Well said Dorothy i can’t believe there are people out there who discriminate others just because they have different beliefs or religious we’re all human beings everyone deserves love and respect and to be equal Dorothy did the right thing!👏💝🙌🤩
There’s more power to this scene when you realize Bea Arthur was Jewish in real life.
So was Estelle Getty!
No one could deliver a put-down like Bea Arthur. Having said that, however, this plot was copied from a Mary Tyler Moore episode. The writers even admitted it in the book, 'Golden Girls Forever.' But they said they stole from the best!
I think they were the same writers.
I remember that MTM episode. It's sad to know that, 20 years later, the relevance was still present.
@@r0bw00d Loved both MTM and the Golden Girls. They don't make shows like these anymore.
While I do love The Golden Girls, the show did copy a bit frequently from other shows. With regard to the MTM episode, that character (played by Mary Frann) was actually worse than Barbara Thorndike. Barbara was just a snooty hypocrite, but the MTM character was definitely anti-Semitic. You could tell by the way she even looked at Rhoda.
atlantic1119, Joanne Forbes told Mary she wasn't "experienced" dealing with Jewish people. Barbara Thorndyke told Dorothy it was the Mortimer Club's policy, not hers. Either way, I didn't care, because I thought BOTH Barbara and Joanne deserved each other!
So ahead for its time. Takes courage to stand up to “friends”.
Yes it does, and when someone makes me angry, I put my foot down - whether they like it or not!
She tickled me when she said "go to hell" and then the audience go woooo!!!
Dorothy was so amazing and wonderful brave person was stand up for herself
If ALL of us were like Dorothy, the world would be a much better place!
GO Dorothy! you tell her!
I'm a Jew and I didn't even realize that this was gonna come up but it makes my blood boil.
Zoe Vanhatten perhaps these two idiots below you didn’t watch the video. Let me spell it out for them 1:40.
Zoe Vanhatten Jesus killer
Thor Swenson are you sure you aren’t just jealous because Jews are more successful then you?
hate is real..... wow. Those of you who commented like you did, were you raised to hate other people on their race/faith/etc? I have to believe some of your families did not raise you to hate other people. what happened to looking at a person's character? how that person treats other people? Taboo?
@@Ellypoem ikr everyone is the same in my eyes where all family
"Let me spell it for you, go to hell." That was deep and sharp. The humiliation on Barbara's face after that showed how embarrassed she was, get her Dorothy.
She just did!
I never heard of anyone tolerating something just because it's there! Dorothy told Barbara off in a way that she deserved!
The irony is Bonnie Bartlett is the antithesis of the character she portrayed. PS both women looked striking in this scene!! Bea is my favorite Golden Girl 👍
it's not irony; it's acting.
Mine too...and that's high praise because I love all the characters.
It doesn't matter how you dress - your personality is the one thing that can't be ignored!
I always loved Beas characters clothes. Especially as the seasons went on. The costume person certainly fit her wardrobe excellent for her.
Except her wedding dress at the very end. God that thing was ugly. Even Bea hated it.
“Besides, it’s their policy, not mine.”
“Yeah but you tolerate it.”
I make myself watch this again from time to time. I’m ashamed to say I’ve struggled and even failed at this from time to time. But I think I’m getting better, and hearing Bea Arthur calling out tolerance of intolerance is a helpful kick in the behind.
I was a very little girl when my mum and Aunt used to watch this show. I didn’t understand any of the humour but t holds such a special place in my heart. I’ve even had the theme song for years on my iTunes account and listen to it often 🙏🏻🇦🇺
I can watch "golden girls, and golden palace, and don't get bored, thanks for this reruns.😊
One thing that is perhaps worth mentioning about the scene is Barbara's unsuccessful attempts at redemption such as:"It's the club's policy not mine" and "We obviously can't go to the club so we'll go somewhere else". When you're screwed.You're screwed.
Dorothy is my spirit animal. God, I miss the girls. May they all rest in peace.
It's safe to say that the way she delivered that line, Bea Arthur turned Dorothy back into Maude for a hot second.
Not necessarily, since Maude and Dorothy were a lot alike.
When shows had positive messages.
This scene here is exactly why I get pissed off at people who tolerate racism in any form. “They have a right to free speech!”
The woman who plays Barbara honestly delivered the lines so well. She truly captured the essence of these casual racists. “Well it’s *their* rules, not mine!” Like that’s any better. Kudos to both of these actresses.
People have the right to free speech and thought. It is not your place to impose your beliefs on others . You can utilize your freedom of speech and expression and persuade them that their beliefs are wrong. Be careful of what you wish for.
@@PungiFungi people free to critizise their government without fear.not free to spread hate speech
@PungiFungi we as a society get to decide what we tolerate. Slowly but surely racism is one thing we aren't anymore. You're free to be racist, but everyone else is free to not associate with them and deny them access to services from private entities.
Free speech only applies to the government. Everyone else can judge them and react accordingly. Nobody is obligated to treat anyone with civility, especially those intolerant people who express the most uncivil behavior towards people for their race. They don't get to say and do vile shit and turn around and demand the only appropriate response is to try and "persuade" them to be different.
Murry what a snazzy tux! I better not let you outta my sight tonight. 😂
Can you imagine what his jacket would look like if it was turned inside out?
Bonnie Bartlett does some great work as Barbara Thorndyke because she pulls off the character's air of pompous arrogance and, at the end, bigotry. We LOATHE her because the actress is so convincing in the part. By the way, Ms. Bartlett is still with us today at 94, and she's been married to her husband, fellow actor William Daniels (who is 96), since 1951!
Hallmark and Lifetime screwed up when they decided censoring someone telling another to go to Hell is worse than the context in which it was said. That killed the whole message.
The Lifetime airings had the "Go to hell" line still intact.
She may make fun of her friends, but when it comes to it, Dorothy will defend them.
"Why are you a member of a club like that?" Such a great question. We now live in a world where "don't judge" is a commonplace. I'm so grateful to GOD that I was raised by people who knew right from wrong. Tolerating ignorance is wrong. Period.
Absolutely! I was born into and raised on diversity, and I get angry when people make "bigoted" judgments! Dorothy was perfectly right to ask Barbara WHY she belonged to a club like that, because it gave her a better understanding of her thinking!
@@LisaKoffler Bonnie Barlett was phenomenal in this episode. She was so smug, arrogant, patronizing and insincere. Not many people know how to execute those 4 behaviors in a such a way as she did. She's just a quality actress. Think about her character on "Little House On The Prairie" talk about a stark contrast.
iluvmyboba, acting is complex, so it's NOT unusual for people to confuse actors with the characters they play!
@@LisaKoffler Re-read what I wrote. That's exactly what I'm saying. Some actors do not know how to relay the nuances of certain character types. And that, Friend, is what causes acting to be complex. I referenced her character on LHOTP to showcase the diversity of her talents.
iluvmyboba, yes! I just did that!
“Yes but you tolerate it!” That’s the same thing. Many people tolerate horrible things.
Bea Arthur was more than an actress she was a crusader for people. Rip
Dorothy sure taught her a lesson she never forget.
We'll never know the final outcome of Barbara's thinking, but I hope you're right!
No one delivered a 'go to hell' line like Bea ❤️
I miss the Golden Girls. Everything seemed so much easier in the 80s. Watching sitcoms from the 80s makes me feel safe somehow..or cozy..not sure that makes sense but it's how I feel.
I had a similar situation with an ex girlfriend. I brought her hike to meet my family and at the end of the night she said she didn't like my parents and only tolerated them because she was with me, when my family was nothing but hospitable towards her. I broke up with her the next day because I didn't want to be with someone who can't appreciate my family the same way I do.
Smart move! I have NO respect for people like that!
Dorothy kept it real and that's a TRUE friend for ya! That discriminating bigot so called friend of hers was a snob...."let me spell it out to you..."GO TO HELL" 😂🤣...I LOVE DOROTHY!!
This show had more progressive views on bigotry than most people today do
Tolerating racism is no better than supporting it
That's what people who say "both sides should just get along" can't seem to understand
I'm surprised the Mortimer Club would also admit Dorothy and Sophia, as well, being Italian Catholic. Lots of clubs like that would ban not just Jews, but also Catholics, blacks, foreigners, you name it. Happened in my family once. My Mom's family is Irish Catholic and long ago experienced prejudice because of both. Some businesses actually put out signs "Irish need not apply" and one elderly relative recounted to me that in a public school he went to years ago, Catholics were looked at with disdain and the teachers taught only negative things about the Catholic Church in history classes. Even I have had that experience in the 21st century, and prominent historian Arthur Schlesinger once said that the last "acceptable" American prejudice is anti-Catholicism.
That's just how some clubs are. They simply won't admit anybody who doesn't suit their own "distorted" standards!
One of the best scenes in the entire series!
Tell her Dororthy!!!!
We need Dorothy around today more than ever.
"Go to hell. Hmm" 😏 #GoDorothy
Thank you for being a friend, indeed. ❤️😍
Dorothy: “let me spell it out for you…go to hell”
This is one of the reasons why Dorothy is my favorite golden girl, she's a whole combo, funny, smart, common sense and a compassionate woman and great friend.
Omg, the lady in the clip was the widow Snyder from Little House on the Prairie!!
The writers weren't slick giving her the last name Thornedyke 😂
Beautiful just beautiful.
I thought Barbara looked like Ally McBeal actress Calista Flockhart, which is kinda ironic when you consider Barbaras anti Semetism and Calistas surname!
Dorothy is just as masterful and amazing as ever, and gorgeous. I need that woman in my life!
Jasmine Surreal Cat Grant from Supergirl too
If you want to know what shocks me about this episode? The Hallmark Channel CENSORS the word "hell". Can you believe it?!? That's like censoring the word "damn" in Gone with the Wind.
The easiest way for evil to persevere is for good people to remain quiet. Just as she said, "but you tolerate it" - you either have a value or you don't. Your soul's for sale or it's not.
In a world of hate, be like Dorothy (Bea Arthur)
Poor Dorothy. You can tell in her voice she's so disappointed when she asks Barbara why she'd be in a club like that. I'm glad she finally saw Barbara's true colors. Sad that a place like that would even exist.
GET HER DOROTHY!!
I feel like dorthy is the smartest of the quartet but that does not mean she incapable of making mistakes but she owns up to them
Nobody can deliver a Go to Hell like Bea!!!!
This is a different side of Bonnie Bartlett we do not see all that often.