🤔 When and why use a tile leveling system, especially for cheap bowed tiles.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
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Tile Leveling systems explained, when and why they should be used to reduce or even eliminate lippage between tiles. Cheap tiles from box stores can really benefit from the use of a leveling system during installation. The cheaper the tile, the more likely it will have a pronounced bow to it, that will be impossible to reduce without the help of a leveling system. Lippage is when one edge of a tile is higher than the adjacent tile. Porcelain tiles are getting larger and larger as time goes on, any tile with one side longer than 15" (38cm) is considered a large format tile. These large format tiles are usually not flat, the manufacturing process cause the tiles to bow as they are made, some are bowed more than others, but all will have some degree curve to them, and the longer the tile, the more it becomes a problem. In this video I explain how this impacts the installation of the tile and why Leveling systems have become so numerous and adopted to help with the installation of these large tiles and how they reduce lippage of the installed tile. There are many types of systems, but all work in the same way to bring the tiles into plane by clamping the edges of the tiles together, whether the system is a wedge type, spindle or cap type, the principle is the same. All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
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Wife and I were screaming in terror when you lifted up the connected tiles! But seriously, Sal, thanks for ALL the vids on tile leveling systems. It will be my first time with large-format rectangular tiles and you are a life-saver. I had just realized I was in trouble with lippage and you came to the rescue! Will be checking out more of your videos. SUBSCRIBED!
OMG, and here I was worrying about having a flat floor to accept the tiles and had simply assumed that since tiles were manufactured, that they would be perfectly flat. One more thing to keep me awake at night before my project starts...lol. Your video is so well made and so convincing. Thanks for taking the time to explain it all
Thanks, glad it helped
I just want to thank you so much for making this video . Before we never realized how important a leveling system was needed. We own a handyman business and our work is our pride and joy and this just made all the difference for us . So thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge you just changed our ability to install like a professional and improve our performance thank you thank you thank you . Muah .
I appreciate your comment about pride and joy of a job well done.
I quietly finished a tile job this week when my scheduled time was up.
The owner’s main guy, had a poor attitude and sloppy work ethic in tiling and it showed in his work in a residential home.
My mind was blown and educated at the same time. Excellent video. Thank you so much!
Glad it was helpful!
The demonstration with those long format tiles was very helpful. Thanks!
I wish I had run into your videos 3 weeks ago. Even with good tiles it all comes down to who’s driving the trowel. Unless you are going for Boho Chic and want that Lip to add Rustic Flare - go for the leveling system. Happy Easter all.
Ansy
Nobody can say that Sal Diblasi is not The Man when it comes to tiling! THANK YOU!!! A true master at his craft!
😊👍
Hello from Korea, i studied in Washington state and now i work in interior tile in Korea. They work little differently here but still ur videos are very helpful! My sister studied in Boston so i visited there for few times, it would be really nice if i could see you work in real time! Thank you for the uploads!
I live just north of Boston, you never know I travel a few times a year, you never know where you might bump into me.
Installed 900 sq.ft of 6x36, self-leveler where needed,L.F.T. mortar(no clips) but they were rectified porcelain tiles.Those tiles no hope unless you use leveling clips. Thanks for the Vid!
Thanks for taking the time to explain the tile leveling system.
Glad it was helpful!
At 9:22 you push down on the planks, I did not realize tiles were as flexible as this. So the leveling system can actually bend the tiles straight. Thanks.
All good tile guys and grill masters wear those new balance shoes. Proven fact.
🤣👍
You see em a lot on prison yards :)
Lmao! Dudes on his feet and knees all day Long! I see a lot of the black or white basic basic nikes that have super thick soles too. Sal, how are your knees after decades of laying tile? My cousin does wood floors and I know he’s got knee and arthritis issues.. beautiful work very talented guy but it destroys your body over time
Yes, People who actually work for a living want good shoes.
And phone clips are like lightsabers for these grand masters
21 year old apprentice atm here... Just want to say thanks for all these helpful tips sal. Some day I will be a great tiler just like you sir👍 best wishes and happy Easter man
Same to you, happy Easter.👍
Hi Sal, I swear but levelling systems, it has moved my finish to the next level with my installs, thanks for all your videos you all have helped me up my game. Big 👍 from the uk
Good to hear.
Arron Mcmahon which ones do you use
would be cool if you did a video on the tile manufacturers you recommend.
I love my leveling system! I correct my floors before I tile and then setting tile I use the proper trowel for coverage, I back butter all my tiles, I jog my tiles to make sure there is proper contact i butter a tiles if needed before I lock them down. The wedge system creates the 1/8” joint no more 3/16 spacers I get more done because I don’t have to play with the inconsistencies of the warped convex or concave fired tile anymore!
Exactly
Excellent video, super clear. I'm not sure if I'm going to need a leveling system for the tiles for my bathroom remodel which will use smaller tiles than what you show in the video (which is why I went hunting for videos), but I'm going to go ahead and buy a bunch of clips and wedges just in case I need them. Also, I was surprised to see how much porcelain tiles can be flexed! I had no idea.
Nice video Sal. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
excellent video sal, simply put, a leveling system is a must if your a professional tile setter, period!
Wow am a tiler from Uganda, this video has helped me alot, tho at first I did a bad job of which I didn't know about the leveling system and we didn't have it in our country by then
Thank you , Sal. A guy just did my floor with serious lippage. Found you the next day. THANK GOD
Always good explanation Sal , always good to listen a real PRO. 👍
Much appreciated
Great demonstration!
After watching Ur video i wanna buy those T tile leveling system for my new house in Jakarta...
Thanks!
Best of luck
Perfect timing, starting my tile job, will definitely be using these.. Cheers!
Great to hear!
Wow, thanks for this. I was wondering why the tile box said not to set it half way. Very good information here
Glad it was helpful!
Sounds just like James Joseph(Tony Soprano)
Good work 👌🏻
I have watched many of your videos Sal and it's about time I said thank you and if I wasn't doing the work myself I would want to hire you.
Thanks for watching my video.
Hi sal, thank you you’re the best, happy Easter to you and your family
Thanks, same to you.
Brilliant. Explained it Barney style for dummies like me.
Thanks for watching my video.
Great video, you answered al the questions I had. Thanks for being thorough with your video, very muc appreciated.
Glad it was helpful!
Do we need to use the levelling system pliers or just push it in with one's fingers? Please I absolutely need an answer from an expert. Thank you
Amazing sir.wish u here in my country.learn lots of thing today.going to fix my floor very soon
😊👍
I agree the demonstration & explanation. Tell me what are the required tools & materials to install a perfect installation of tiles?
Same tools that you would normally use. Watch any one of my 900+ videos for detailed instructions on many aspects of tile.
Terrific Sal. Thanks foe preparing.
Thank you for an easy to understand video
Thanks, glad it helped
Thank you Sal for all your advice
My pleasure!
I am SOLD! Thanks sir. Good demonstration.
Glad it was helpful!
Can you please tell me if a tile leveling system is usable for wavy or non smooth tile? I'm installing 12x24 tile with a wave pattern on it so the face plane of the tile will not be uniform. Is a tile leveling system still advised in this instance Sal? It will be on a shower wall installed vertical. Thank you for all your great videos!!
Yes, I have done it many times th-cam.com/video/IhnSr49gSVw/w-d-xo.html
Really great video Sal. As simple as it is, it's one of your best. These are the type of things people need to know and SEE. I do tiling for a builder here in Texas and i wish we could use something like this but that's not gonna happen ever down here with these cheap builders, they wont pay for this stuff even if it's to improve the quality of the job. Even adding something simple and nice like those edge profiles for the sides of showers/tubs, they don't want to pay for. It's disappointing, anyways i'll stop my ranting.
What i wanted to ask you though is, when you use these leveling systems, don't they pull up on the tile in certain places where it bowed? I would be kinda apprehensive about using it because i don't want it to pull up on a tile too much and lose some of the bond. Or is the amount it gets pulled up to level out the tile not much to worry about?
Quite the opposite here is another video where I explain the whole thing th-cam.com/video/3GFkOiWvbUA/w-d-xo.html
@@SalDiBlasi Thank You Sal !
I’d love to take tile classes/ apprenticeship with you, I’m taking classes now with Trailblazers; Vermont Works For Women learning, becoming competent with the skilled trades ; working with pride. ✨
are levelers appropriate for a wall? can they used for 1/4 grout lines using 12 x20 tile around a shower?
Sal, need your advice. I asked the tiling contractor about using a leveling system on a 6x36 wood look tile based on your video. He said he does not like using them because "while they do allow for perfect lippage, what they don’t talk about is the fact that it is pulling and pushing tiles up and down to make the perfect lippage causing pockets sometimes where there is a gap between tile and thinset. This will lead to hollow sounding tile that can crack over time. Also these tile systems slow the tile laying process down costing more money not only in their direct cost but also in cost per square foot in labor and in our opinion is that they are for beginners to help them lay tile properly. " He says he has been laying tile for years. What are your thoughts on this and how should I respond back based on your professional experience? Thank you so much and great videos!!
Typical answer form an installer that does not understand the system and is reluctant to use new tools to improve the installation. Every thing he said is false. here are a couple of videos to watch
th-cam.com/video/3GFkOiWvbUA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/u3_-VKGNCQY/w-d-xo.html
They are a tool that will improve the installation, and will make it go quicker once the installer becomes proficient with it.
@@SalDiBlasi Sal, you are the man!!! I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. This really helps out tremendously. 😊
Sal do you ever use leveling system for tiling shower
Hey sal, which leveling system do you find to be the easiest to use? With the best results?
9:00 - excellent demonstration
Thanks for watching my video.
Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Awesome video, Sal! *Listen to Sal everyone!* If you hire someone who refuses to do *anything* Sal recommends, you should absolutely find someone else. If you think it's a hassle to fire someone before they do a hack job on your home, you won't believe the hassle after the fact.
Theres a slight bow to the wall. Will leveling clips and back buttering help with this?
Hey Sal, do you have a link for the video about the strategic method to use so you don't open up the grout joints? Thank you.
Good morning Sal, happy Easter to you and you're family!
Same to you and yours
@@SalDiBlasi I'm not a tiler but sometimes get asked to tile the odd bathroom floor and walls when installing new sanitaryware. With floor tiles displaying the amount of bow as shown here, when the clips are removed will the bond of the floor tile adhesive be strong enough to stop the tile springing up in the middle?
There's an old adage about a town with 2 barbers , one is spotless and the other has hair all over the floor and is a mess, so the question is .. which one do you get your hair cut at? Obviously the messy one because that's where everyone in the town goes...
But now there is a new adage.. There are 2 tile guys , one has crap wood paneling on his office walls and the other has tile everywhere... who do you hire?
I'm going with the guy who is in such high demand that he doesn't have the time or the energy to tile his own walls!!! Sal is a tile G.O.A.T !!
😊👍
Sal, Thank you for the expert advice. If you have a moment, can you recommend a thin-set for large format wall tiles going over Schluter membrane. Last thing I saw, which was fairly old, was Tec Uncoupling Membrane Mortar. Thanks!
Schluter has their own thing now, Schluter Set which is unmodified, and Schluter Allset which is modified. Use these with your Schluter system and you can get a lifetime warranty.
Yes please make a video about keeping the joints from opening up when inserting wedges. I usually smack the edge of the tile with my margin trowel handle.
I found that I have to pay attention to the direction in which I insert the wedges. If I don’t point the wedge toward the previously laid tile, it would always open up the joint when I put the pliers to it.
Press the wedge into the direction of the tile you just set. I find with spin on cap levelers that you can rotate the tile to the left upward. Something else to watch for.
Thanks for your video How much level system I have to pour for tiles 7x24?
Hey sal...my question involves what type of products you choose for the job. Like if you choose to use go board over kerdi board and what not? I mean, I know the cost, but if your a redgaurd fan I know the labor cost has to increase. Does all you estimates include what YOU choose to work with or the customer? If not why? Like I watch your videos to increase my knowledge and skill set. The ditra shim was a life saver!
I will always supply all setting materials and board of my choice. What I use is not up for debate. I am going to stand behind my work so I decide the system.
@@SalDiBlasi cool beans!
Hi Sal, Happy Easter! Do you have any video on Mapei Ultracolor Plus FA? About to do my marble mosaic backsplash with 1/16 joints and 1x4 chevron and doing all the research I can to see best way to apply, or if I should switch products. Seems to set super fast.
The best thing you can do is read the directions on the container and follow them exactly, sorry don't have a video for that product.
Love the video. Clips are really not my thing. I use them in certain situations like you stated. But with all the respect I have to disagree with if they always pull the highest spot down. I just had a job with 12x24 on thirds I used clips on. Even with grinding the highest spots down in the concrete it was still a lumpy concrete surface. They didn’t want the money in self leveling nor did they have the hight. On a few spots you could watch the clips pull the low to the high. Where normally you would pull and increase the mortar. I pulled a couple because the grout joint was too large. The bond was good at about 80 percent but I usually shot for the 90s. I do key into substrate and back butter and used a 1/2”x 1/2” trowel. I dislike them for the most part but it also depends on your skill level. On the idea of flexing the wood plank tile my only issues are one 1/3 is the max distance to minimize lipage and my second concern is if we put these tile under force and keep them with mortar. They never lose this tension made by us the leveling system. That tension would still be like a wood product always try to get back to less tension. I worry adding tension into the floor will come with problems later down the road. To each their own. Just a thought.
On a concrete subfloor, deflection is not much of an issue, but where I am almost all tile is installed over a wood frame, in this situation tiles are constantly subjected to deflection and all kinds of movement. Not an issue as you think it might be.
I like to vnotch back of tiles and half in floor. If u good thin set and get ur floors flat shouldn’t be issue. Porcelain tile. I used them on bumby concrete and that’s when I used 1/4 by 1/4on back tile And 3/8 on floor in different direction. I pulled few and worked great. Need soft tooth brush in wash bucket. I just love the flatness and quality of the look. Good use good thinset doing floors. Each his own and clips do create big joint is u don’t torque then down evenly and slide wedges towards the action. We did very busy convenience store this way and I stop by and check out grout lines and tiles wear people walk down isles most. Im still hopeful that good thinset won’t hurt bending bows out. Time will tell. About year now and busy store too. We shall see
you are the man!!!just one question if they have been already installed without a leveling system is there any problem for the floor in the future?
No, leveling system is just a tool to reduce lippage, has nothing to do with longevity.
@@SalDiBlasi thanks a lot!!
Well explained.
Thanks for this video Sal. I live in the Phoenix AZ area and had 12x24 tiles installed by two different tile contractors (two different phases of the same job). Each said they do not use levelers, they use their level. The levelers take too much time. Well, as expected, when they were done lippage in a lot of places! So, how do I find a contractor who insists on using these levelers?
Ask a lot of questions and keep looking until you find the tile installer you like. Here are a couple of places to look www.tile-assn.com/default.aspx and www.ceramictilefoundation.org/
Simple ask it be put in the contract that they will use a leveling system. Anything that concerns you should be clearly and completely explained in the contract. Been doing contracting for a long time and a good contractor spells out the details of what they are doing and the steps and methods they will be using. If they won't put it in writing then you don't want to use them. And as always have someone present for the installation of any project like a floor to insure that they do as they contracted.
Mr. DiBlasi,
First of all Happy Easter. A moment of your time if I may. I've gone with the USG membrane shower system. Membrane is on walls and floor, flood test completed no issues. I'm ready to tile. My question is, manufacturer says either an unmodified or modified thinset can be used with their membrane. I will be using a 12x24 tile on the walls and a hex mosaic on the floor. Which type of thinset would you recommend? Thank you in advance.
Use a good quality LFT mortar for the walls, If USG says either modified or unmodified take your pick. I will often use Mapei Ultraflex LFT, Ardex X77, Laticrete Trilite, Schluter Set or Allset, Custom Prolite, and several others.
@@SalDiBlasi Thank you so much sir.
perfect explanation!
Thanks!
How do you take the white things out once the thin set dries?
I love your videos ! Great work ethic’s
😊👍
Hey Sal, how do you protect your health while in this trade
The silica dust while tiling is crazy!
great video I like the white new balance sneakers too you're a rockstar tile guy
Glad you like them!
Great video. Step One: Avoid buying really cheap tile.
Step 2: always buy leveling system. No matter how perfect your tiles, your floor or your thinset will always be imperfect. Self leveling systems save hours in reducing lippage on larger jobs, while providing a superior product. Only time to not use lippage system is on a small tile job with subway etc
good explanation sal thanks again
Very welcome
Hi Sal tank you .from Argentina
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Yo también soy de argentina .sal diblasi un crack de selección .
Sal is the best!
😊👍
How far are you pushing the wedges? Are you pushing the wedges as far in as you feel the tiles being flushed together?
Once you use the system, you will get a feel for it.
I think this video has qualified Sal for Sainthood.
Thank you sir!!!
Now if you can teach us how to properly use the self leveling compound.
😊👍
Hey there. Im doing a 13' x 14" mudroom with 8"x8" tiles. Ditra is down, with a few mild bumps. Do I need to use Tile leveling clips for this size tile? Are they strickly for larger tiles?
No need for clips.
Would you recommend using a leveling system for standard size tiles (specifically 4x10)?
Probably not
Im considering use a 35x12 3d textured tile (Emser NUOVO cube, to be exact) on the long wall of a shower as an accent wall. Which style lippage control system would you recommend? Please share if you have any experience with this type of tile.
T-Lock is my go to
Cheap leveler's with a curved bottom will pop lighter tile out of mortar. Non rectified tile should use 1/8" spacers along with (guessing, your 1/16") leveling system
Using the leveling system, is it possible to create voids under certain tiles causing problems later or not so much?
No, not a problem if tile is installed properly.
Just got done using the home depot leveling system. For the most part it worked (for the ones that didn't work too well, it was more than likely operator error).
all tools are not made equal, just like anything else there is the good and the bad.
Hahah, yesterday I chose a different tile at the last minute cause it was just so damn flat and square made the one I selected online look cheap, got a bit of sticker shock when I got home and looked at the invoice.... but I am still in love. I want to go really thin grout line, maybe 2mm, so scared the clips dont break off cleanly
Minimum grout line is 1/16" (2mm) and this video will help th-cam.com/video/-Ey7V4o5OzE/w-d-xo.html
@@SalDiBlasi Will check it out... I've done my fair share of horrible tiling in my life, these days I keep the designs and layouts within my skill/tool set
What about the stress you put on the tile by Bending it?and the corners that get pulled up ?
i hear this alot. with the correct trowel size and back buttering the stress become irrelevant , as the clips spread out those so called stresses to all points equally. so yes that can become an issue if you dont prep your floors, use an incorrect trowell size and dont back butter. if you look at when sal put those tiles face to face and showed the bow, if you then held one hand on one side and one hand on the other and squeezed, the tile would flex flat with minimal effort, so if you then use multiple clips that pressure becomes even less, so your not adding a load of force with the system.
Sal, is rectified tile flatter reducing the amount of lippage? Happy Easter to you and your family.
Rectified tile does not correct bowed tile, only ensures consistent dimensions. This allows you to use small grout joints, even on large format tile
Great vid! Thank You.
which type of tile do you recommend to put in a shower with tub? Ceramic, porcelin, ect
Most tiles can be used, pick a tile you like and then check to see if it will work, more likely than not, it will.
Great video
Thanks!
How do you determine grout size using these. Are you stuck having a grout size the thickness of this product?
You can use a spacer in conjunction with the leveling clips.
Would r11 tiles be ideal for outdoor patios? Patio gas a cover
Great demonstration
Thank you Sal!!!!
👍😊
Love your channel
😊👍
Greetings from India
I have a question that
Is it really needed to use leveling clips for 2x4ft (600×1200)mm tiles?
Yes
Better results in less time! Win! Win!
Great video Sal. I have tried these the other day and when I use a plier to close the clip it opens the grout joint from 1/8 to 1/4. Any helpful hints? Thank you again.
Always insert the wedges so you tighten towards the set tile, do not over tighten.
what if they are pressed (non rectified) tiles. i bought wood plank tiles 6 x 36 that were warped. i tried using the 1/16 inch tile leveling system and it created a much bigger gap - almost 1/4 inch. how can i get these leveled and achieve 1/16 inch grout line?
THe grout line is determined by the variation in size of the tile, if the tiles are not very even in size, one tile is longer or wider than the next tile, then a ider grout line is required. What this means is that a 1/16" grout line may not be possible.
Your the best
So you have to cut off the bottom pieces of the leveling system once it dries?
No cutting involved, if in the floor just break them off with your feet. The base remains under the tile. It’s no effort at all to remove them.
The bottom pieces will be imbedded beneath the tile in thinset once you break them off with a mallet. If you have residual plastic left within the grout lines (as I sometimes did), I found a chisel (smaller than your grout line) with a light hammer and a very delicate hand to be useful in removing them. Naturally you run the risk of chipping your tile but again, a soft hand and go parallel to the grout line to remove the plastic, not perpendicular.
Do I need these for 6 x 24?
Thanks
You the man Sal!!!
My question, how do you knockout the levels when they’re hardened within the thin set? Cut the plastic?
They have a deliberate weak neck at the base of the vertical tab so you can break them off below tile level by a sharp tap to the edge of the tab
would I see benefits from using a leveling system on 12" X 12" tiles?
not really worth it, unless you are a novice at tile.
Thanks.........