Dune Vs A Song of Ice and Fire | Is Dune Game of Thrones in Space? No, It's WAY more!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Dune and A Song of Ice and Fire are two of my favorite book series of all time. I have covered both Dune and A Song of Ice and Fire on This channel for quite some time now, and many people have pointed out the several ways in which the two book series' resemble each other. Some have even called Dune, Game of Thrones in space, but I think in all fairness since Dune was released first, it would be better to call Game of Thrones, Dune in the middle ages if anything. But how similar are two sagas really? Dune by Frank Herbert was first published in 1965 and went on to become one of the most influential science fiction Saga’s of all time, While the first book in George RR Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire, A Game of Thrones was first released in 1996 and has since inspired a whole new wave of fantasy lovers.
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Who has a better story than Bran?
Everyone in the Dune Saga ;)
Do they?
*Treats Bran as the most unimportant character but give him a transcended soundtrack*
Season 8, last episode. D&D are like, "Oh yeah, we kinda forgot Bran's important, somehow.. The end."
Douglas Morgan, thanks for that.
Absolutely!
Than show bran at least, book Bran well we will need to see how it end... And well does we count the books from Brain Herbert and Kevin J Anderson? because those are not good
I am old...old enough to have read both of these AMAZING series upon their initial publications!
respect! tryna finish Reading dune b4 i see the movie
And neither will ever be finished!
@@8bitcarrot 🥺
Well, Frank Herbert didn't finish Dune, I hope this isn't some foreshadowing for the fate of ASOIAF. I had my expectations already subverted.
Chapter House was not an ending, but it pretty clearly pointed you in a direction...
don't mean to be rude but don't you mean Darius the Achaemenid Emperor?
@@Ar1AnX1x i did this account a lot of years ago as a child, i still use it. Now idk how to change it but I would surely do that
Don't worry, DnD will finish it with George's manuscripts
People keep saying Dune didn't end... and yet Arrakis taught us the lesson of the knife...
"These glasses aren't even real" - Gotta admit, you got me in the last second
ShishakliAus I was relieved not to have a ring light glare on the lenses.
😂😂😂 I knew it when I first turned on the video I was like something isn’t right here
Riiight, that's why there was no light refraction...
I am not constantly distracted by his glasses lol haven't even finished the video
I was drawn to them right away. Thinking "Are those schoolboys." (fake glasses) Then I thought I could see some refraction at the edge. So dismissed it, out of hand. Then psyche, got you. Lol
Dune is similar to A Song of Ice and Fire in that is deserves an HBO series (one season for each book) to properly tell its story. I'm sure Denis Villeneuve's two part movie adaptation will be worth watching, but I'm not so sure that it's going to find its audience. And certainly, much of the detail that makes Dune such a compelling universe and narrative is going to be cut to fit the theatrical format.
Tim McC yep
agreed!
They can always release extended/director's cut in Blu-ray
Would love to see an HBO adaptation with the right showrunners
denis’ dune movie is amazing
Funnily enough I was just watching an interview where GRR was asked about his willingness to kill off main characters that people like, and he compared Ned to Paul’s father, saying “In some ways, it’s Frank Herbert’s DUNE.”
Mintberi Crunche
Good point. Paul being so very young a protagonist is another point of similarly.
I love that you are trolling us with no lens glasses now just to avoid glare. But honestly you should look into using indirect lighting so that 1: you don't get glare, and 2: so that you don't look so washed out with excessive bright shine.
Otherwise love your videos my dude, keep up the great work.
I love that you are showing your face these days brother. You beautiful bastard
He looks like mos def
Looking at his attire, he could well be a Gentleman Bastard
HE KILLING IT, flowsísimo
Looking slick as hell
Philip DeFranco is that you?
As a writer, you can learn a lot by studying the narrative styles of books you read and how those styles work or don’t work for those types of stories. Dune and ASOIAF are great examples of very different styles that each fit their story type but would not work for the other.
ASOIAF is written in 3rd person, but strictly from the POV of the chapter’s central character. You experience every scene through that character’s eyes, hear their thoughts and *only* their thoughts. This works extremely well for developing their personalities and making the reader feel like they know this person intimately. But it also limits how deep you can go into philosophy without having contrived exposition.
Dune is written in omniscient 3rd person, meaning in a single scene you see from multiple characters’ POV, hear multiple characters’ thoughts, and sometimes watch the scene from no particular character’s POV at all. This limits how immersed the reader ever feels in any particular character, keeping the reader more of a detached observer of interactions-which is more conducive to deep philosophical examinations.
Neither style is better than the other. Each style fits like a glove to the stories these masterful writers were out to tell, and neither style would have worked for the other kind of story.
It seems like Game of Thrones is Dune during the time of Letos Peace and everyone is stuck in their planet for 3500 years.
Oooohhhhh that's GENIUS!!!
the concept is known as an "interregnum world". GRRM wrote several stories that take place on interregnum worlds. I'll never personally rule out the interregnum possibility There is one TH-cam who is pretty well known for posting videos about that idea... but I'm not gonna promote anyone else on Quinn's page.
As someone who agrees with you on most points in most videos i dont think that both series are heavy with philosophy. While this is definetly the case with Dune, ASOIAF is like a shallow stream compared to it. It was not meant to be a deep philosophycal book (and if it was it failed miserably). I get what you said about story first and philosophy second, but i think that there is more deapth in the book that we make up taklking about it then is really present. Martin is a master of plot and dives his hooks in you with a superbly crafted and intense narrative, but there is very little depth in the books besides "No one is really all the way good and evil". Its a light read which you can definetly come back to many times, but the things you think about when rereading are cleverly disguised forshadowings, not any deep meaning that is not present in a 1st semester philosophy course. While the Dune books make you think and wander of in introspective philosophical discussions with onself (at least they do for me), and every time in a new way.
RealLifeCyclops
If ASOIAF has any underlying theme it is about the conflict between the desire of humans for individual autonomy and ecological demands (which does link it to the Dune series). But it's quite possible I'm reading too much here into the ending of the TV show.
Dune accomplished more in less pages. While ASOIAF requires droning story and the use of too many characters. Dune is far superior.
It's unfortunate the moment a series became "too" mainstream, a lot of people always talk about this upcoming other great series is a copy of that said popular series. It's quite frustrating to me as both fan of the series in which this kind of people mostly ignorant & only follow the trends.
Ripping something off is the greatest compliment to it
NEVER call Dune "GoT in Space". Just no. Dune is more sophisticated, by far. Its ideas are bigger. Also the role of women in Dune is quite different.
TheIslingtongirl thank you !!!
I was just thinking about this the other Day. Of the two ASOIAF is my favorite, But I can't say that it is philosophical Deep. It has so many interesting characters and plot lines, the World George RR Martin describes is complex and beautiful and mysterious and alive. However I ask, is ASOIAF just Escapism, "Are we just Reading about the achievements of better men"?
@Bluetiger that's a very good quote.
However I do think we in the West spend too much time and money on media, and not enough time trying to solve real-world problems. And I am not excusing myself I am clearly guilty of this to.
But seriously mate, your videos are always thought provoking
“You could kill someone with these books!”
😂😂
John Wick: Hold my pencil! 😂
I think thats a confession
that demands respect too. if not convinced, try typing them trough once!
wait, the glasses aren't real? My life is a lie!
Seriously tho, I prefer Dune because I think the world is more fleshed out IMO and I prefer the bizantine/arab aesthetic of the books plus the characters are much more awesome.
Any chance of reviewing a Terry Goodkind book?
No! The Dune Universe is far more dense than Game of Thrones.
Actually I find Dune is much more psychological than Game of thrones. If you want "Game of thrones in space" read Five Star Stories by Mamoru Nagano first published in 1989.
IMO I don't think that is a equivalent comparison at all but I can see why someone might say that.
@@crabjuice47 Five Star Stories has many comparisons. But for most of the arcs its close to sci-fi game of thrones.
Thank you for the recommendation.
Your new video style/format is brilliant! This channel just gets better and better!
The Shade of the Evening has always reminded me more of Dune's Sapho. With the stained mouths and enhancement mental/spiritual abilities. The Spice, I think, has a more blanket wonder drug feel to it(life extension, mind expansion, euphoria, etc..), while Sapho and Shade of the Evening seem more like tools for targeted enhancement of abilities.
2:20 Its called Third Person Omniscient. It was quite common around the time Dune was written, which helped to make the books more concise. Unfortunately, these days it is quite rare.
I would say Dune is deeper and more ambitious than GoT.
In the end Asoiaf is about the deromanticization of Fantasy (Which is, by the way, not something new at all. Michael Moorcock already did that back in the 60's) but in the end there isn't much more to it than obvious revelation that medieval times were cruel and unfair.
While Dune (originally) was about the deconstruction of the Hero Mythos and societies relationship with Messiahs and leaders. Herbert also had much better handling on religion, since in Dune it is inbedded into society and were examined in a much more thoroughly while Asoiaf fails to realize that in a medieval society, set in medieval time with medieval level of technology, even and especially the educated upper class was heavily religious and not a bunch of closet atheists where religion is mostly sidelined.
They’re drawing on the same tropes in places. Magic potions, great beasts, witches and breakers and builders. Rebels, unwashed masses, religions and power and messiahs. Neither are original in this as these are ancient human tropes.
Dune, however, tells you why if you read it carefully enough.
Yes GoT copied the shit out of Dune just like star wars.
Star Wars ripped off more than just Dune.
"Memory never recaptures reality. Memory reconstructs. All reconstructions change the original, becoming external frames of reference that inevitably fall short" -FH
How many more similarities are there?
Yes I felt the same about star wars
Agreed it was a rip of.
Once I know guy who literally said that he did not have to watch or read GOT, because he already read Dune. Like, WOW.
Maybe A Dream of Spring should be renamed God Emperor of Westeros.
GoT doesn’t hold a candle to the Dune series. I almost get the sense that Martin was influenced by Herbert.
Dune stops having relatable characters by book 3 with God Emperor being one of the most esoteric bestsellers of all time. ASoIaF is way more down to earth and digestible, especially due to the short time frame of the main ASoIaf books.
I can see parallels in terms of the presentation if you look at only book 5 and 6 of Dune but let´s be honest. Those were very much their own story, a new (and sadly unfinished) cycle set in the same universe.
I think a song of ice and fire has more themes than people give it credit for. While superficially it has some similarities to Dune Quinn is right that it doesnt have the same wrting style or themes as Dune. George martin writes very personal chraxters who influence history then shows us how true events get distorted by the limited information available to others. He shows us how the "tale told by and idiot" slowly builds itself uncaring of your moral position. They both subvert the hero's journey and deal with themes of power and governance but are still avout very different aspects of those themes.
I believe expanse is GoT in space
I started watching that show, made me interested in the book(s?)
@@TROBassGuitar books, 7 I believe. I haven't had the time to read but based on the reviews by those who have read it, the books are awesome.
@@bmabhilash01 8 out of 9 books are already out. Both the book and audiobook are great.
@@Adobomonster cool
Jon snow and paul atriedes have some similarities for sure
You always forget that what GRR Martin really inspired was "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" by Tad Williams (and to be honest tad williams is the better author); Dune and ASOIAF have very little in common especially from a narrative point of view.
Well, game of thrones was published in ,1996, but dune was published in 1965
So i think game of thrones is dune on earth
Edit: No hate people
Did you notice that Arya Stark becomes „no one” the monstrosity that Alia from Dune became. Alia killed Vladimir Harkonnen with a knife, like Arya did killed the Night King. Such a coincidence... or maybe not. :)
If the book ends the same as the tv show Daenerys and Paul are both charismatic leaders that appear to be protagonists who a free groups of people who then follow them with zealotry until their actions lead to things that are difficult to justify. Which would mean both books essentially are driving to the same core point in essentially the same way.
Your video production level has now been perfected. Big up!
Let's look at historic/philosophical perspective. Dune is gnostic, hegelian and pantheistic vision of our future - very similar to Space Odyssey. Game of Thrones is a distorted vision of Middle Ages depicting paganism/magic as something real. On the other hand both are about family intrigues and evolve around sexual drive (hi Freud :) If indeed Dune is going to be closer to book rather than personal interpretation than the answer is above. Worth mentioning: Game of Thrones is less intelectual ;)
I think you misspelled "Is "Game of Thrones" Dune in a fantasy world? To give GoT preeminence in ANY way, accidentally or intentionally, over Dune is a travesty and an utter shock to my system. Dune is a science fiction classic by a giant of the genre upon which later science fiction was built. GoT is an awesome fantasy story that made GRRM a lot of money.
I am sorry, but HOW can Dune be GoT in space when Dune pre-dates GoT by decades???? Logic dictates he's got it backwards.
Dune is the LOTR in space - or it's been compared to JRRT's work for its depth, scope and detailed world building, good character development etc.
Is Dune Game of Thrones in Space? No, you can argue GoT is Dune in a medieval setting. You can't escape Dune's preeminence when trying to make comparisons.
Dune is the OG of thrones.
Fremen = Free-Folk
Mentat = Maester
kwisatz haderach = Azor Ahai
Bene gesserit = Red Priestess
Face Dancers and Faceless men are also very similar.
It's more like GOT WANTS to be a fantasy Dune and it's failing so bad at it lol.
The answer is a big NO. The copycat is Game of Thrones. Dune came first.
Can't believe i still haven't read Dune. It sounds fascinating.
Dune is absolutely brilliant
Song of Ice and Fire feels like a much more… realistic world. Stuff just happens sometimes. Like Robert being killed by a boar. And the world is filled with many more extraneous details. We never even hear the name of the great houses of the Lansraad, but GRRM gives us spades and spades of noble families
i’d agree. him getting killed by a bore, i don’t know why i didn’t think it was lazy. cause it slightly is. but makes it seem like we’re talking about teddy roosevelt
Shade of the evening drink reminded me more of the drink the Mentats
So, ASOIAF = LOTR + Dune? Nah, I am just kidding, but you can find similarities between such vast and complex works of art, for sure.
the biggest comparison might be, both are unfinished (by the original author). Maybe GRRM will get his act together and finish, but given his pace and unhealthy lifestyle I would not hold my breath for the final novel (if we get the 6th at all).
It's never going to happen.
Alex Jones Brandon Sanderson to the rescue. Lol.
Heard GRRM Doctor is confident Martin still have plenty of years before him.
@@oliviawilliams6204 Well, I am not wishing him anything but the best, but he is not the youngest author anymore and has several risk factors working against him, plus he does take his time with WoW already, and we have no way of knowing how many years it will take for the last one. Honestly, my concern is that if it takes another 10 years, he will not be able to finish A Song of Ice and Fire
@@AlexJones-ue1ll
It does seem unlikely that the series will be completed especially since it's hard to see how GRRM can tie up all his narrative threads in only two books.
Thank you for introducing me Dune! right know i finished the first two books and just started the third. Can you maybe make a video on Count Fenring? So far he has not been in a lot of scenes but i find him really interresting.
Dune is the Science Fiction/Fantasy/Political masterpiece that was so far ahead of its time. Frank Hurbert was a masterful writer while George R.R. Martin is pedestrian at most times.
Never disrespect dune by calling it got in space. Got can not hold a candle to the complexity of dune
Dune has out right been ripped off since the first book.
"starwars"
sword in the stone meets dune with marital arts with mystic s
Lotr is another series ripped regulary. This is good this means it's great
Got is in my eyes more like old world of darkness with vampire the mascriade
Except that Dune was also derivative, from Asimov and many others.
Quite the opposite, Game of thrones is Dune in Middle Ages.
I hope not. Dune needs to be seen on its own merits now necessarily completely compared to Game of thrones
WAIT your glasses don't have LENSES!
You’re right
Remember the glare in the other video? That's probably why.
@@TurquoiseStar17 *GLARE* *pushes glasses up on nose*
He's better at subverting expectations than D&D
You mean is George rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Martin’s story dune on a planet with iron mans family.
I think the main difference is that Dune will be remembered in the future while asoiaf and grr Martin will fall into oblivion
Dune came first in my eyes, song of ice and fire is "Dune medieval"
dune is a space opera yes with period drama elements and great pov and dialogue. there are still some silly logic flaws to the first dune book. i hope the baron harkonen isnt treated quite as grotesquely as in Lynchs version. i liked the actors especially for house Atredies in the original movie and the baroque elements.
There is the Sci-fi miniseries version to compare as well.
WRONG. Game of thrones is a simplified medieval Dune.
Dune is far more complex, literary and cinematic than the Game of thrones universe
It is game of thrones in space, that's exactly what i thought of it when i started reading Dune, and that's a compliment.
Compliment for game of thrones
Dune came first. Why the idiotic question?
Considering Dune came first, I think it's the reverse.
Do you like wheel of time? Takes a lot of inspiration from dune.
A lot from LOTR too! I’m on the seventh book, but I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with taking inspiration, I personally prefer WOT.
As I recall, in Dune Saphoo Juice, which I assumed was some type of directed stimulant, was consumed by Mentats and stained their lips, somewhat like the Shade of the Evening. I'm inferring it helped users enter the computer-like Mentat mode, which allowed them to do computations faster than the forbidden thinking machines. I don't remember Paul ever using Sappho juice, but he was among other things, a sort of ultra-Mentat. I saw "Hidden Figures" again recently and noticed the women doing the complex math computations were actually called "computers". I wonder if that's where Frank Herbert got the idea. If GRRM wasn't inspired by Dune, he's doing a very good imitation of it. I've been thinking of Bran as God Emperor of Westeros for a good while now. What the weirwood network really had me thinking of was a 1975 book by Alan Dean Foster called Midworld, about a planet covered in a stratified sentient rainforest. It is similar to Dune in that the ecology of the planet is almost a character itself, and deeply informs the narrative. I don't want to spoil too much of the story for anyone who's interested in reading it, but IMO James Cameron probably gave it a good read before making Avatar.
JAMES
To put the size of ASOIAF and Dune into perspective, the Bible has 807 370 words and ASOIAF so far has 1 736 054, George passes the old testament word count in the first two books. So no wonder it takes time to write.
I used to really like your videos, now I LOVE them. They’ve really stepped up in quality, please keep it up👏✌️
He really stepped up the BOWTIES.
But seriously, not many can pull those off. Good on him.
I know right, attractive and has a butter voice. It's not fair when you think about it.
Dune is in a different league to ASOF. The idea's and the scope of Dune is much wider than than ASOF, and although George R worte muli POV Herbert follows humanity, and is the daddy of Star Wars and many other 'space opera' movies & novels. I thinks it's pretty obvious that George R took a few pointers from Frank H but in the main the two series are very different animals. Personally I prefer Herbert, I think is better technically as writer and his ideas stimulate my mind more than ASOF. Herbert you have to concentrate on the narrative while George R is easy reading if you can get over his sometimes clunky style.
It’s Star Wars meets Game of Thrones & Lord of the Rings. Yet less creative, entertaining, rich or colourful.
Good video, although I am compelled to make a correction. In Dune the Bene Gesserit do not pose as a religious organization. They essentially function as a teaching school and people perceive them as witches, but without any religious representation. They do use religions through their Missionaria Protectiva to manipulate primitive cultures, but of course they keep it in secret.
I also believe that the main difference between ASOIAF and Dune is the complexity of the plots and conspiracies. While Martin exposes and accompanies the reader efficiently towards a solution that we can perceive beforehand, in Dune Frank Herbert hardly gives us clues and the plot only makes sense at the end of the book.
Imho Martin "stole" from Dune the eyes of Iban when he created the wights.
Leto and Bran? Meh... Leto is a pre-born, he's never actually been human even before the mutation. Worst case scenario Bran is going to become like Brynden Rivers, not the useless meat puppet we see in got.
You mean.. is GOT just Dune in the middle ages... and no GOT is a hot pile of shit compared to DUNE. Got is great, sure, but it's nothing to fantasy as dune is to scifi
Took me the whole video to figure out there are no glasses in those specs😁. Great video, love the new format and ASOIAF is inspired by Dune no doubt.
I saw that immediately
@@davidcarson7855 I guess my brain wasn't working then. It's so obvious from the beginning 😂.
I have said it is Game of Thrones in space if you were to pitch it as a series to people unfamiliar with Dune. Dune would've done better with a HBO series treatment than a film. I think the same is true of GOT. GOT as a film? No, but it works better than Dune because it is less heavy with the narration. Yikes, Dune is heavy with the narration which is awesome to read, but in film is tedious or will leave too much information unsaid.
No no no no. Game of Thrones is Dune in a castle.
I think Battletech and Legend of the Galactic Heroes are a better comparison to ASOIAF.
Dune makes you understand the human history is bound to repeat itself, as humans forget way too fast.
Brain the broken is a copy of frank herbert dune, leto II Atreides and in the end the bad guy, he will live forever and rule forever there will be no hiding from his rule just like leto, The knight's king was the good guy all things must die. Brains abilities (prescient powers, worging from one person to the next as he"s about to die) I think that was the reason for the war Brain aka the 3 eyed raven had cheated death and death came a calling.. Without Dune there would be no Starwars or GOT's
Star Wars borrowed heavily from Akira Kurosawa samurai movies. A New Hope is almost a direct copy of one of his film.
Dune wasn't the precursor to Star Wars, but there were probably influences.
So...Jon Snow is Duncan Idaho (simple dude coming back from death) and Dany is Alia?
I started reading dune because of you, thanks. Do you think you brought a lot of new readers to the series? Or had most subs already read them?
I started reading Dune as well because of Quin. Im sure it's a mix of both.
How this guy defines what he is? It reminds me of those pop culture scholars in Ready Player One. By the way, in this last decades, pop culture has grown massively. I was impressed when I saw a reference to Stargate in the 90s in Dexter's Lab (the gate itself). Today references are very common, and Ready Player One takes them to the extremes. The whole thing feeds in itself. I just also remembered art critic Camille Paglia writing in a book that the duel in the finale of Revenge of the Sith is the most powerful work of art in the last 20 years or so.
th-cam.com/video/Ibkmh72_1pw/w-d-xo.html
You need to check out Berserk. It's an amazing dark fantasy.
The Bene Gesserit kind of remind me of the Maesters. They’re this order that serves each house (except for the Harkonens) but they clearly have their own agenda and use their situation to further those goals.
So in a vast and cruel short version: GOT takes a lot from Dune (and from the real history War of the Roses).
The Dune of Middle Earth
No damn it … Game of Thrones is Dune in a Medieval time.
Don’t get it twisted just because was on HBO and had more hype.
Stop that.
Game of thrones is what happens when you get the dollar store knock off version of Dune set in a fantasy setting by a writer that has a hard on for killing people rather than telling a story...
Dune vs GoT is kinda like Beethoven vs Latest Trending Pop Metal band.
I saw more parallels between Paul and Daenerys, Both exiles, both having prophetic visions, uniting a tribal people under their banner and taming huge beasts as weapons of war.
You do realize that dune was written decades before asoif, right?
So shouldn't you ask "is asoif just dune in a fantasy setting?"
Im so glad i found your channel. Kepp up the great work and even if its not this. You're sharp there's always Spice around for the alert traveler
I never got past the first Game of Thrones book, but enjoyed the first few TV series. Not that I am a non reader, I just wasn’t inspired by the writing. That probably makes me very unqualified to comment. But I always figured George R.R. Martin had been influenced by Dune, given how big it was when he first started dabbling in SF writing. And the story parallels are so clear, as well as stylistic elements like introducing chapters with quotes from fictitious histories etc, switching between various narrative points of view and so on. The most obvious difference to me is that Martin is a SF fan writing SF. Whereas Herbert is a student/fan of history, politics, religion, philosophy, ecology, mysticism, human development and so on who uses SF as a vehicle to discuss ideas and pose questions about humanity’s direction. I’m sure that will provoke some reaction ...
It's not Game of Thrones in space. Dune is Game of the Golden Lion Throne!
It's all Shakespeare in the end.
Spoiler:
It's only like dune if the three eyed raven is just manipulating everything like Leto II
I don't really see any connection between the two aside from them both having an Empire type structure of government
- Spice Melange = Shade of the evening and weirwood paste
- Tleilaxu Face Dancers = Faceless Men
- House Atreides is Stark but less naive, House Harkonnen is Bolton and House Corinno is Lannister (yeah I know George took inspiration from european medieval times too but the similarities to these galactic great houses are uncanny)
- the concepts of possession and abomination in Dune are the same as in ASOIAF with just a few tweaked differences
- Paul Atreides is just like Bran Stark, like LEGIT. Paul has access to ancestral memories while Bran glimpses in the weirwood net
Bran is more like Leto II than Paul.Paul's parallel would be Daenerys or Jon Snow.