Same sort of login with Intimidate being one of the most overpowered abilities in Doubles but Growl being never used, despite having the same effect. Switch-in (or out- Regenerator) effects are some of the most powerful effects in the game enabled by abilities, bar none.
Alright so a bit more about VGC manual weather: the main reason for why it works better in doubles is the one you have stated yes, but there's a series of interactions as to why it can be useful; it can act as damage control, either boosting or nerfing depending on the type (most commonly seen with Urshifu's surging strikes) letting the move be pretty flexible, essentially working as both a Helping Hand and a screen at the same time, which as you said, a teammate next to the setter can take advantage of in the same turn. Against opposing weather, being able to change it as they switch in their pokemon with weather setting ability means they need to switch it out and then back in, taking thus 2 turns, which is a huge momentum sink when games last around 7-8 turns at best (for example, a Tornadus using rain dance as the enemy Torkoal switches in is potentially a game-winning move against a sun team). Most important of these interactions though is probably dynamic speed changes, a mechanic introduced in gen 8: before sword and shield, the turn order would be set at the beginning of the turn, and it would stay that way no matter what. From swsh however, if a pokemon that has yet to move has its speed changed mid-turn, the turn order gets recalculated and takes it into account. For example: if my swift swim Kingdra is slower than both my opponents, but its teammate is the fastest pokemon on the field and sets up rain dance going first, Kingdra immediately gets the speed boost and may all of a sudden outspeed both opponents on that same turn. If this exact scenario plays out in sun and moon for example, Kingdra would still move last for that one turn in which rain got set up, and then it would get the speed boost (this is also the reason why Tailwind became a much bigger deal in sword and shield). All these interactions can help one another and even play out on the same turn, and come together to make weather so powerful that it also works when set manually, but you may have noticed that for these interactions to be relevant the weather is reliant on being set first: it's the reason why if manual weather is used at all, it is done so purely by Prankster pokemon, like Tornadus, Thundurus, Whimsicott and Murkrow
It would be cool to see manual weather be more viable since there is a larger pool of manual weather setters than Mons with weather Abilities but it's no surprise weather Abilities are the premium option. Why spend a turn setting up weather when you can literally just switch into it? Maybe we'll eventually see more moves like Chilly Reception that allow for interesting utility while also enabling weather on the side.
In my own opinion, I think Manual Weather should last significantly longer. The turn investment should give you that higher reward, and it could encourage teams to run more defensive weather.
I think the amount of extended turns is pretty important but I assume you're imagining 8 since that's the max we currently get from weather item users. If that's that case, I think 8 turns for manual weather is a reasonable buff. But tbh, I still don't think it would be enough to dethrone weather Abilities. Lol.
I vote that westher setting moves should give an extra 3, even without the specific rock, and then another 3 with the rock. Maybe even more if we need to go farther to make them work
Sadly, it's an active hindrance if anything. Once you've become No Ice form you really wanna stay there for the MASSIVE speed increase. I believe it's the largest speed increase between forms in the game?
OH also, you might be inclined to change it from Weather Moves to Weather Setting Moves in the title, I def clicked expecting you to talk about “why blizzard/thunder/weather ball are bad actually”, which i thought was surprising Turns out it was surprising because it wasn’t the case at all 💀
I mean. In short why waste a move slot and turn just for set up weather where you can get a Pokémon like torkoal with drought to set up sunny day without wasting a turn.
Not for the first time, I've found myself wishing that certain mechanics were slightly altered between singles and doubles. Manual weather setting is one of the biggest candidates. Rolling the +3 turn boost from the weather rocks into the manual weather setting moves would feel as if it compensates for the momentum sink of having to spend a turn manually setting the weather, rather than auto-setting it with a weather-setting ability. You could either end up manually setting weather for 11 turns with a held rock, or you could instead have that mon benefit from Leftovers on a defensive user, or something like Mystic Water on Kingdra or Life Orb on Venusaur for more offensive oomph. I'd also like to see this done with some other field moves, like Tailwind, Wonder Room, Trick Room, Gravity, and the terrains receive the same treatment. Trick Room and Tailwind - especially Tailwind - are already plenty good in doubles, so they don't need that buff. However, a +3 turn buff for these moves could finally make them reliably good in singles for the first time.
Same sort of login with Intimidate being one of the most overpowered abilities in Doubles but Growl being never used, despite having the same effect. Switch-in (or out- Regenerator) effects are some of the most powerful effects in the game enabled by abilities, bar none.
It makes sense, it essentially gives you a free turn.
Alright so a bit more about VGC manual weather: the main reason for why it works better in doubles is the one you have stated yes, but there's a series of interactions as to why it can be useful; it can act as damage control, either boosting or nerfing depending on the type (most commonly seen with Urshifu's surging strikes) letting the move be pretty flexible, essentially working as both a Helping Hand and a screen at the same time, which as you said, a teammate next to the setter can take advantage of in the same turn. Against opposing weather, being able to change it as they switch in their pokemon with weather setting ability means they need to switch it out and then back in, taking thus 2 turns, which is a huge momentum sink when games last around 7-8 turns at best (for example, a Tornadus using rain dance as the enemy Torkoal switches in is potentially a game-winning move against a sun team). Most important of these interactions though is probably dynamic speed changes, a mechanic introduced in gen 8: before sword and shield, the turn order would be set at the beginning of the turn, and it would stay that way no matter what. From swsh however, if a pokemon that has yet to move has its speed changed mid-turn, the turn order gets recalculated and takes it into account. For example: if my swift swim Kingdra is slower than both my opponents, but its teammate is the fastest pokemon on the field and sets up rain dance going first, Kingdra immediately gets the speed boost and may all of a sudden outspeed both opponents on that same turn. If this exact scenario plays out in sun and moon for example, Kingdra would still move last for that one turn in which rain got set up, and then it would get the speed boost (this is also the reason why Tailwind became a much bigger deal in sword and shield).
All these interactions can help one another and even play out on the same turn, and come together to make weather so powerful that it also works when set manually, but you may have noticed that for these interactions to be relevant the weather is reliant on being set first: it's the reason why if manual weather is used at all, it is done so purely by Prankster pokemon, like Tornadus, Thundurus, Whimsicott and Murkrow
It would be cool to see manual weather be more viable since there is a larger pool of manual weather setters than Mons with weather Abilities but it's no surprise weather Abilities are the premium option. Why spend a turn setting up weather when you can literally just switch into it?
Maybe we'll eventually see more moves like Chilly Reception that allow for interesting utility while also enabling weather on the side.
In my own opinion, I think Manual Weather should last significantly longer. The turn investment should give you that higher reward, and it could encourage teams to run more defensive weather.
I think the amount of extended turns is pretty important but I assume you're imagining 8 since that's the max we currently get from weather item users.
If that's that case, I think 8 turns for manual weather is a reasonable buff. But tbh, I still don't think it would be enough to dethrone weather Abilities. Lol.
do these weather moves include swadloons niche in gen 6 pure hackmons
No, Swadloons niche in gen 6 pure hackmons involves a weather (setting?) ability.
@@blip_exists that is uh, quite unfortunate, to say the least
@@weirdhamster7460unfortunate doesnt even begin to describe it
I vote that westher setting moves should give an extra 3, even without the specific rock, and then another 3 with the rock. Maybe even more if we need to go farther to make them work
Did not know Eiscue could do that in National Dex
Sadly, it's an active hindrance if anything. Once you've become No Ice form you really wanna stay there for the MASSIVE speed increase. I believe it's the largest speed increase between forms in the game?
Its not an amazing strategy, but its really, really funny. If you want to use it, try pairing it with toxic spikes to increase chip damage.
NEW BLIP DROPPED
TAP IN 🗣️🔥🔥
OH also, you might be inclined to change it from Weather Moves to Weather Setting Moves in the title, I def clicked expecting you to talk about “why blizzard/thunder/weather ball are bad actually”, which i thought was surprising
Turns out it was surprising because it wasn’t the case at all 💀
@@jacksonbranby Good idea, thanks!!
what is that song at 2:20? sounds like duster
it is duster (me and the birds)
yep, duster, me and the birds
Heat video, but does move Sticky Web from the famous OU staple Araquanid count as a weather move?
Of course, due to the fact that spider webs often fall from the sky
I mean.
In short why waste a move slot and turn just for set up weather where you can get a Pokémon like torkoal with drought to set up sunny day without wasting a turn.
Yup, thats the condensed version
Not for the first time, I've found myself wishing that certain mechanics were slightly altered between singles and doubles.
Manual weather setting is one of the biggest candidates. Rolling the +3 turn boost from the weather rocks into the manual weather setting moves would feel as if it compensates for the momentum sink of having to spend a turn manually setting the weather, rather than auto-setting it with a weather-setting ability. You could either end up manually setting weather for 11 turns with a held rock, or you could instead have that mon benefit from Leftovers on a defensive user, or something like Mystic Water on Kingdra or Life Orb on Venusaur for more offensive oomph.
I'd also like to see this done with some other field moves, like Tailwind, Wonder Room, Trick Room, Gravity, and the terrains receive the same treatment. Trick Room and Tailwind - especially Tailwind - are already plenty good in doubles, so they don't need that buff. However, a +3 turn buff for these moves could finally make them reliably good in singles for the first time.
Sun and rain are also defensive. Sun weakens the power of water moves and rain weakens fire.
Yup! Its just harder to use them defensivly as the weather doesn't last long, and theres more reward to using it offensivly.
Hello there
General Kenobi!