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What Is The Worst Type To Be Weak To In Competitive Pokemon?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2024
- #pokemonshowdown
Most Pokemon have weaknesses (Eelektross is the funny lil exception), but which of these weaknesses is the biggest weakness? Watch this video to (hopefully) find out!
Sample teams used:
pokepast.es/e04404b69790309f
pokepast.es/ddf197a0c11943ad
pokepast.es/ec051e757ed6c770
pokepast.es/2d0efb84b0b0c956
pokepast.es/91dfb2c0223d272c
pokepast.es/862e7e0a5d0e1c73
pokepast.es/4615265a63c29805
pokepast.es/ed3ff191551e7e6c
From my counting, here's how much attacking moves of each type were used on the Gen 9 OU sample teams:
Ground-13
Dark-12
Water-9
Fire-7
Ghost-7
Fighting-7
Ice-5
Dragon-5
Poison-4
Steel-4
Normal-4
Fairy-4
Grass-4
Bug-2
Electric-2
Rock-1
Flying-1
Psychic-0
Music Used:
"Strad" By C418
"Furious Gods" By Christopher Larkin
"Scorched Feather" From Kid Icarus Uprising
"The Space-Pirate Ship " From Kid Icarus Uprising
"Team Skull Theme" From Pokemon Sun and Moon
"Crimson Mirelands" From Pokemon Legends Arceus
"Mantis Lords" By Christopher Larkin
"Queens Gardens" By Christopher Larkin
"Far" By C418
"Title Screen" From Pokemon Firered and Leafgreen
"Phoenix Mountain" From Kid Icarus Uprising
"Aurum Island" From Kid Icarus Uprising
"Obsidian Fieldlands" From Pokemon Legends Arceus
"Lavender Town" From Pokemon Red and Blue
"Crystal Peak" By Christopher Larkin
"Forgotten Crossroads" By Christopher Larkin
"City Of Tears" By Christopher Larkin
"Cobalt Coastlands" From Pokemon Legends Arceus
"Alabaster Icelands" From Pokemon Legends Arceus
"Dirtmouth" By Christopher Larkin
"Battle!" From Pokemon Legends Arceus
"Hive Knight" By Christopher Larkin
"Aria Math" By C418
"Broken Vessel" By Christopher Larkin
"Blocks" By C418
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:50 Psychic
2:14 Flying
2:50 Poison
3:10 Dragon
3:39 Grass
4:05 Fairy
4:26 Fire
5:06 Rock
6:00 Ghost
6:37 Normal
7:34 Electric
8:09 Steel
8:24 Ice
9:10 Ground
9:59 Fighting
10:20 Bug (Uturn)
11:00 Water
11:41 Dark
12:48 Outro
I find it hilarious that when talking weaknesses, people even don’t say that something is 4x weak to Bug they say 4x weak to U-turn
Bug is a terrible offensive type so not many Pokémon have bug as a coverage move, but most Pokémon with pivoting moves available will take advantage of it. U-Turn is even ran on Pokémon like Elektross to avoid ground types stopping Volt Switch.
I will never understand why they added Fairy and decided to make it resist Bug when it was already a bad offensive type at that time.
they should make psychic super effective against fairy imo
I mean the only two Bug moves that actually matter are U-turn and First Impression
still very funny
@@xavibun leech life is pretty good in some of the lower tiers (ex. lokix) and x scissor is a menace with kleavor, but those are pretty niche
@@floofzykitty5072I honestly think they didn’t realize how bad bug was because they made a few great pokemon (volcarona, Heracross and Scizor) that just so happened to be bug type so they made fairy resist bug thinking bug types were good. If any of that made sense
If a pokemon is 4x weak to U-turn it's probably gonna be bad.
Hoopa-Unbound has that issue, but is still a fine mon. That weakness is awful tho and one of the reasons it isn’t banned. Hoopa just happens to be the exception
Celebi gen 4 and 5
Laughs in hoopa unbound if it didn’t have a quad weakness to bug it would probably be Ubers ngl
Meowscarada moment
@@Pretzel_WaifuIts paper defense is probably not helping, too 😢
Ground, U-turn and Water, those are on basically every team. Honorable mention goes to Rock because of stealth rocks
OH FUCK I FORGOT ABOUT KNOCK OFF PURSUIT AND CEASELESS EDGE
Heatran moment
@@miimiiandco heatran is good because apart from ground, fighting and water (horrendous types to be weak to), he basically resists almost every other attack that comes his way lmfao and he's bulky enough to take special water attacks too
Yeah, particularly with the bulky ground and bulky water being common pokemon niches, it makes it very problematic in every tier.
@@blip_exists having a bulky ground is practically mandatory on every non hyper offense team, and even then, you want a ground type for the offensive coverage. This is the reason why regieleki wasn't overpowered in gen 8, every team had at least one ground type. Every mildly bulky team needs a bulky water too, and rain teams exist (which is part of the reason bulky water are important as anti rain). People should teambuild more and see the thought process that goes into making teams beyond having a good type variety.
The fact that neither flying or electric have a priority move is wild to me
You'd think so, with how fast they are, but nope.
Nope, instead there's fucking Accelerock and Ice Shard
Remember that are is a special priority move can you guess what type it is
@@ashmyoshi3912 I know what it is
@@ashmyoshi3912 Fighting lmao
Knock off is so scary the fact that it has no drawbacks is crazy and it’s hard to deal with even when resisted cause of how good that secondary effect is.
yep and theres no immunity. The best punish you can have is with justified or rattled, to get an attack or speed boost. But most of the pokemon with those abilities either suck, use a different ability or would still rather not be hit.
Gastrodon sticky hold gang rise up
I mean, there is a downside - its a contact move, so it can be punished with Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, or status-inflicting abilities like Static or Flame Body.
@@thevoidlord1796at that point it's low risk high reward. Cuz chip damage does help but c'mon that's a slap on the wrist at most
There literally is a downside to this move lmao what are you talking about, it deals less damage if you don't knock off the item/if there's no more item. Having a 65 base power move is garbage so yeah it's not like knock off spam is gonna carry your game on its own.
Worth noting it's not possible to have a 4× weakness to Dragon or any kind of weakness to normal.
You can, but only in Inverse battles so pretty much impossible
Inverse battles haven't been in a game for over 10 years already lol
@@rex_melynasEh. IIRC, they're implemented on Showdown as an "Other Meta" so... You can still *technically* play them?
@@rex_melynasdoesn’t change the fact that they were a great idea that was abandoned before its time
And there's only 4 mons, all legendaries that are 4x weak to ghost
The U-turn weakness is more important, but it is important to remember that First Impression is a priority move that has 90 power, which will be an instant canvas kisser for any 4x weak Pokémon
Grass isnt that bad offensively, alongside electric type, both are the only types that can hit effective to water, there is a priority move behind terrain (now not, but maybe in the future with dlcs that move could come back) and terrain itself that boosts grass moves, people use sap sipper as an ability because grass moves are annoying to deal with like spore, there aren't many mons that have access to sap sipper, in this meta azumarill and goodra hisui (that resists x4 anyways) but to be honest non-huge power azumarill is bad
Well the thing is, no one actually uses sap sipper except on very niche azu sets that don't need the other two abilities. The reason water/ground types are so dominent in general is because grass type moves are just very uncommon, and mostly limmited to the grass type pokemon themeselves. There is no wonder why serperior never got banned despite its broken ability with leaf storm and perfect stats, having only grass type moves make you double resisted by so many common pokemon since you are the most resisted typing in the game.
@@artimist0315 Yup, I'm not saying grass is a top tier typing offensively like ice or dark but It's not bug (excluding u turn) or steel (besides bullet punch the real and the only niche it has is hitting the fairy type I think), many mons resists it yeah but, I mean there are mons that benefits a lot of grass moves and would like have a grass move, It's almost the perfect coverage of fire types, because with grass coverage they beat ground, water and rock, a lot of fire type mons that have access use it and even Heatran used Z Solar Beam back in gen 7, even many sets of Lando run Grass Knot, It's rare seeing non-bug types having bug moves (excluding u-turn It's more a move to gain momentum than a coverage itself) but you can see it on non-grass types to deal with top defensive types like ground and water, the real problem as you said is the distribution but I don't think It's a problem of the typing itself
Grass does hit some really strong Pokemon, I know Meowscarada got a ton more attention because of Great Tusk and Garganacl... but at the same time it's not hard at all to just have a Pokemon that quad-resists Grass without even trying. It's why Serperior isn't quite as good as it looks, being stuck with basically just Grass as an attacking move.
@artimist0315 I mean, Serperior has many problems other than its Grass typing. Saying it has "perfect stats" is far overselling it; base 75 equal offenses is a gross spread (even at +2 with a 130 bp move, it isn't doing close to insane damage), and its defenses are more middling than good. _Clefable_ has better defensive and offensive stats, imo, and people meme on how below average its stats are. Serp's Speed is the main selling point of its stat spread, and even by Gen 6 - 7 standards it was outsped by a plethora of meta threats.
And regardless of what typing you are, being stuck with a single attack type gets you in trouble no matter what. The omnipresent offensive typing of Ground still gets hard walled by Flying types, Fighting is walled by the commonly seen Fairies and also Flying mons, Electric gets you walled by Ground types as seen with Regieleki (who was far more overtuned than Serperior ever was, and still had an issue with one type coverage), Ice gets stopped by Water and Steel types, etc etc.
So Grass isn't close to the only issue with Serp. It could've been a Ground type, Fighting type, Electric type, etc and still run into the exact same issues as it does now. It does need access to more coverage, but that is because running a single attack type will always be very bad for an offensive mon.
Grass was still terrible in competive until Arbolivia came. Bulky defensive Grass/Normal typing and Tera Normal. Defensive options were lacking on the Grass type
I'm very impressed by the clip of aurorus living 2 4x effective stab flash cannons
I'm pretty sure it had AV, and Empoleon had no spatk investment.
_Technically_ grassy glide is a priority gras type move
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure it isn't in gen 9 yet, so in the context of gen 9 OU, it virtually doesn't exist
@@jackhammer4499 Sure but the guy in the video was mostly refering to national dex, because flip turn is almost nonexistent in Gen 9, and many pokemon (like Kingambit) cannot learn Knock Off either.
I think its worth noting that the prevalence of 4x weak to ice pokemon directly raises the value of ice type attacks. So it makes perfect sense.
Yeah those pokemon aren't bad because they're quad weak to Ice, Ice as a type is made better because it hits these pokemon for quad effective damage.
Worst weaknesses are rock, ground, and water in my opinion. Rock due to stealth rocks(although boots and the stellar hazard removal of recent generations has made this nowhere near as bad as it once was). Ground due to how common the type is and the fact that so many physical attackers will just slap on earthquake as a coverage option like dragonite or fallcarona. And water because no matter the meta there will always be top tier water types, and any team that loses to water types offensively or defensively is more or less unviable. The problem with a bug weakness specifically though is just u-turn and nothing else really. So many mons(especially top tiers) spam the move and if your mons are weak to it and the opponent uses u-turn you're in a lose-lose situation, since you either take an at worst okay chunk of damage or you switch out and the opponent gets to bring in a threat to your mon for free. My credentials are being bad at competitive singles when I started at 8 years old but being pretty good now and beating a handful of council members over the years.
Edit:The edit was just to clarify that I am only qualified in singles as I am terrible in doubles or vgc.
I think dark is worse than ground, ground can be overcomed with a baloon and almost every team uses one or two flying types, which can make the ground type attack backfire immensly. Dark type attacks are some of the most spammed attacks in the game and the list of otherwise excellent defensive pokémon absolutely ruined by knock off and are below RU because of it is just getting longer with the generations.
Water is in my opinion quite overrated, sure it's very spammed but at least you know what to avoid. While water types are fairly common, you won't get hit by a surprise water type move that is randomly on the oponent's coverage and die because of it. While ground/rock and fire/rock are for sure awful typings, it's more because of the combo of common weaknesses than because of the water weakness. I find camerupt double time water weakness far more manageable than the times 4 weaknesses of aggron.
fighting weakness is terrible with how spammable fighting is offensively. it became much more balanced with gen 9 and the insane dominance of ghosts.
@@artimist0315 i think the issue with lacking a water resist is that if you see a rain team (which is reasonably common) you might as well forfeit on the spot because you lose that matchup almost every time. it doesnt matter if you don't see the banded tera water wave crash in the rain if it still KOs you immediately. if you're water weak you can forget about it entirely
@@artimist0315 air balloon in my and many other players I play with experience has always been an inconsistent option due to misplays or just overall better item choices and natural ground immunities/resists get destroyed by secondary stab or rock coverage, which every top tier ground barring Excadrill has. I would agree that dark is worse as a weakness than ground if pursuit was still around though. I gave up on Gen 9 after two weeks so I’m not the most familiar with how things are shaping up currently outside of just seeing some news here and there like quintuple quick claw and sneasler existing but based on my past experience in dozens of metagames across multiple generations and levels of experience I’d say those three are the worst. Also dark is definitively a better attacking type than water past Gen 5 though that’s just a borderline fact.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you were completely right, fire types would be a lot less viable due to being weak to those 3 exact types
The only thing more powerful than forcing a switch/trapping the enemy is forcing them to NOT switch.
If a pokemon is grass and psychic, it's chances aren't good. That's just too many weaknesses, including a weakness to dark.
I feel like 4x weakness can be overcome with good stats/a lot of positive traits look at garchomp and lando who even with a 4x weakness to a strong offensive type they still have a ton of good traits to counter it
Definitely, and it also has to do with the role the pokemon plays. A defensive pokemon will suffer a lot more from a 4x weakness than a fast offensive pokemon with low bulk.
Hell, Ttar has been great in the game in spite of it's type thanks to the other things that makes it a great Pokemon.
@@blip_exists
yeah fair it does suck when a pokemon like avalugg that's supposed to be a great physical tank has so many 4x weaknesses
@@thepunisher6674 yeah 4x weakneses can often invalidate certain tanks. But then stuff like ferrothorn exists, which does show off how a 4x weakness does not completely invalidate a pokemon.
@@blip_exists
yeah fair but besides from the 4x weakness to fire and the weakness to fighting steel grass is a good defensive type combo
Forgot a fighting type priority move, Vacuum Wave
Yeppp, though Vacuum wave isn't super common, so its not the worst omission.
@@blip_exists yeah, I think most of the pokemon I've seen learn it, aren't actually fighting type
Yeah, but the list of fighting types that have a decent special attack stay is... Slim.
4 times u turn weakness is often really bad
For Sure
hoops is an exception
@@crisannfuller4169No, it has just other qualities that outshine its weakness. Tyranitar's weaknesses are also awful, but it's good DESPITE that.
I think it’s interesting how this list can vary wildly depending on the tier and generation. For example you put Psychic at #18, but in Gen 1 having a Psychic weakness is a lot worse. Same thing with move distribution, like how Scald, Knock Off, and Pursuit are a lot rarer now while way more Pokemon got moves like Close Combat and Trailblaze.
Another example is how heavy duty boots turned a rock weakness from one of, if not the worst weakness, into something that is fairly manageable.
I propose a wild card of a competitive change:
The ability Illuminate, of which has only the effect of raising encounter rates and preventing the lowering of accuracy, will now grant an immunity to dark type moves.
This boosts some already powerful pokemon like the starmie and lanturn lines but also random pokemon like volbeat, watchog, and the shiinotic line.
Starmie would likely soar to ubers as the one with brilliant stats otherwise and swapping a weakness for an immunity. Skill swapping this ability off to others would also be very powerful, as most skillswappers are psychic or ghost type. Let the chaos ensue...
Still weak to bug and power creep would have soared, though it would have a niche in uu maybe
Illuminate Starmie would not be ubers😭
Itd probably be top of UU With a niche in OU and ubers to absorb dark type hits and spin/scald (assuming scald and it come back in the dlc)
@@Lunacy4 ok honestly, fair. And I'm kind of glad this wouldn't break everything like I thought.
I'm only recently refamiliarising with the post-ORAS metagame, and the threats are probably way different now. I know speedy water stab users tend to be quite favourable, but I neglected to notice the drop to UU starmie had in SM.
I do like the idea of creating more niche trickery though, imagine a weirdly viable volbeat, or a return to the era of overpowered psychic types through skillswapping this onto powerful options. And then, maybe a surge of bug popularity in response
Traunt is an ability that definitely needs changing. Slaking is a great gen 3 Normal type but is really hindered by Traunt
@@Kali_Krause Truant's whole purpose is to be bad so as to balance Slaking though
I feel Rock should be up there because of the Stealth Rock weakness alone since it has made some Pokemon completely unviable in higher tiers and even with having heavy duty boots, it takes away a mon's ability to up their their damage output like a Life Orb or choice items or extra recovery like Leftovers or healing berries, which could heavily decrease a mon's utility. All I've gotta say is that there is a reason why most Volcaronas run a Tera type that isn't weak to Rock these days.
Dark types do have a pivot move, parting shot
Well kinda? Parting shot isn't an attacking move, so it can't force switches like U-turn can.
Interesting list and great video. Really well edited and scripted. I think your criteria are a little bit strange because they’re not totally related to the metagame that you’re talking about-the sample teams seem like a pretty arbitrary metric for judging how common a move is. Smogon provides usage stats for each pokemon and for each move a pokemon uses, so making a weighted average of those moves’ usage stats could give you the exact usage of each move in OU. I was also surprised you brought up niche cases like sap sipper and mach punch which don’t exist in the tier. Really enjoyed this video!
Yeah, I forgot that there are usage stats for moves, I will definitely use those for future videos like this. And this video wasn't necessarily just for OU, though it was weighted towards it. There are a lot of things to improve, but I'm glad you still enjoyed it!
"Flying type has no priority moves"
Talonflame whose every flying type attack is priority: hey
(Commented before the video started)
Being weak to grass isn’t too bad, since most Pokémon with a 4x weakness to it have ice beam, or another ice-coverage move
Fire could be worse, since there are a few preventative measures you could take with other members
Bug and Rock, while not good types in general, are AWFUL to be 4x weak to
The thing is, all water-ground are slow so they would easily be beaten by grass type move (except for trick room set up) but a grassy glide still easily KO them. ground-rock also slow but ryperior can I think live a hit from grass type attack move but can't live from special attacking move. Water-rock, they can cause 3 of them can set up shell smash yet still 1 hit KO by grassy glide.
It makes me rage whenever someone immediately dismiss Heatran as a bad Pokemon just because of its quad-weakness to Ground. (ignoring the fact that it resists almost 3/4ths of all the types) Its such a no-brainer to switch your Heatran out in front of a Ground type anyways that the weakness rarely ever matters to those who are experienced in the game.
It's so much of a no brainer thst garchomp get's a free sword dance.
Historically I would say Water. Just remember all those Scalds running around, all those CroCunes, Gyarados, Starmies, Politoeds in Gen 5... maybe not the most common typing as coverage, but definetely omnipresent.
Oh nad being weak to Scizor's bullet punch was a no-no for many as well back in the day
Good video, engaging for sure
Something super important to remember about ice is that it's rarely STAB, which is why ice weakness is less of a deal breaker than it might initially seem. I wish STAB users of moves were taken into account, but I get why it wasn't.
I love that Ice typing is so bad for a Pokémon to have you would prefer to be x4 weak to Ice because it will almost never be x6 power against you.
i mean when it does have stave it become kinda broken, just look weavile in gen 8, heck even in this gen isnt that bad
Good video and quite insightful , but I feel like a better approach to this might have been asking someone on staff where you could get raw usage data of every move in each tier (OU and Nat Dex OU in this case) instead of just going off of a handful of sample teams.
Oooh thats a wonderful idea, that would've been much better! I'll keep that in mind in case I do something like this again.
Sample teams isn't a real data pool
@@niro710 It isn't but it was the best thing I could think of.
Good video, would have appreciated the moves being listed on screen when talking about how many were used in sample teams
Pursuit was removed in Sword and Shield. I think this is a good thing because it gives other pokemon a chance to shine when their options against it were limited
yeah, pursuit made using offensive ghost types really difficult, its prolly for the best that its gone.
are you counting grassy glide as a priority move for grass types?
Crap, forgot about that. Though its almost a signature move in singles, because Rillaboom is the only setter that has it, so nothing else benefits a ton from using it.
It’s still sad they not only removed it from Rillaboom but nerfed the move’s power so it’s still hurt in NatDex :(
rock type pokemon also have a priority move in accelerock it is however only on one mon
Great, accurate, informative video
i think types depends of each generation + tier that criteria doesnt rly make sense also iron leaves isnt good because only of the typing but also grass and psycic kinda sucks offensivelt but garchomp almost fell into uu
This probably won't get answered but what the heck is the song at 11:41 when the #1 title card shows? I looked at the list but it's pretty long. It sounds so familiar and I'm losing my mind cuz I don't know what it's called!
Its "Rank Up" From Pokemon Legends Arceus!
Dark types are also problemetic because of the pokemon itself like Samurott or Kingambit or even Greninja.
What is worse than Knock Off or Sucker Punch?
STAB Knock Off and Sucker Punch.
And Chien Pao is scary with Sucker Punch
Man, its wild seeing flyying so low, when i still vividly remember Birspam and Torn t in early gen 5. time flies
Rock is way too low on this list imo. Even with HDB you still have to waste your item slot to be immune. Imagine how dangerous stuff like Volcarona would be if they didn’t have a rock weakness, which would allow them to hold an item.
Rock is interesting, as it it the most unique of every type in why its so bad to be weak to it, and I do agree in retrospect it probably should be higher. However, in gen 9 especially, most things are running HDB anyways, mainly due to Gholdengo and the general presence of hazards, so the weakness, while still problematic isn't as bad as in other gens. Spikes is also much more common than stealth rocks, at least from what I've seen.
I enjoyed the video but I have one thing to say about your editing. Make the transitions quieter. Your transitions between a few numbers were quite loud so I had to quickly lower, then raise my volume back up
I'll see what I can do with the next video like this! Thanks for the feedback!
Grow little channel! Groooooow! This is good Pokémon content
I believe the most common Ground Type move is Earthquake. Outside of being Flying Type, or having Levitate (or Orthworm’s Earth Eater), I’d also like to mention that Grassy Terrain *halves the power* of Earthquake to just 50. Grassy Terrain teams can kinda shut down Earthquake spam, making 2x Ground weak Pokémon effectively neutral to it instead. Of course, there’s other Ground moves, such as High Horsepower, Drill Run, Stomping Tantrum, and Earth Power. High Horsepower, Drill Run, and Earth Power aren’t as widely distributed as Earthquake. Stomping Tantrum is kinda everywhere, but the base power isn’t really anything crazy without STAB or triggering the double damage. There’s Headlong Rush, but a VERY small pool of Pokémon learn it, and it comes with the negative of dropping both your Defense stats (basically Ground Type Close Combat).
Water took a hit with the removal of Scald in Scarlet/Violet. That leaves Water Pulse, Surf, Muddy Water, and Hydro Pump as mainstream special options. Water Pulse has low base power, Surf has spread but hits your allies in doubles, Muddy Water also has spread and can lower Accuracy… but can miss. Hydro Pump is in a similar spot with 80 Accuracy and only 5(8) PP. Physical Water moves seem more consistent now, due to the stronger special moves having finicky Accuracy, or harming your allies in Doubles.
As for Ice moves… outside of Ice Fang/Punch or Ice Spinner on some physical attackers, you almost always see Ice Beam on a Water Type most of the time. Doesn’t mean ALWAYS, especially with the BoltBeam combo. This also means Ice moves are RARELY STAB boosted. Having something to hit Water Types tends to cover Ice moves (unless said move is on a DIFFERENT Type Pokémon).
🤔
I wish you showed all the moves of a type in the sample teams
tbh i would say that due to the specific nature of dragon, its probably the least detrimental weakness, as its only possible to weak to dragon if you are also a dragon, and dragon coverage is very rare, outside of maybe for tera you are not likely to see dragon type moves on anything thats not dragon, so you can be sure when you will be hit with a dragon move, you don't have to worry about if random pokemon have dragon coverage or not and you should usually be able to strike back/outspeed even with your own stab dragon moves. I don't believe there is a dragon fairy yet, so you'll always be able to hit them neutrally with your own stab at least.
There used to be a Dragon/Fairy but it got sent to the shadow realm (Mega Altaria)
4x Dark weakness can be pretty damning, especially this generation where a lot of the best monsters are dark or run a move like knock off
Bug buzz also gets around substitute with sound so bug types can check with that too
In theory, being 4x weak to Bolt Beam should be worse than being 4x weak to one of the worst offensive types ever...
when you showed the summary cards of various moves, it would be nice to include whether they are physical or special
I feel kinda stoopid not putting on the moves, I''ll add it to the next vid! Thanks!
Hey for fire, did you also factor in burn? I’m pretty new to competitive, but having to worry about being weak for fire. And having to swap out and risk burn especially if the mon you have to pivot to is a physical attacker seems scary. I know burn isn’t exactly gonna happen *too* often especially if they don’t have will-o-wisp. Even if not physical, having burn seems bad very much in singles. Something to watch out for either way
This video was more so focusing on the powerful attacking moves rather than the statuses they could inflict.
For example, while you could argue that a lot of fire moves chancing a burn is scary, this would indirectly mean Water is EVENA BETTER considering the existence of Scald, and 80 base power move with a 30% chance to burn.
Additionally, I’d argue Scald is better than Will-o-wisp because while that chance is lower, you will soon learn that the percentages in pokemon are deceiving.
Stone Edge, 80% accurate, almost never hits. But Scald with a 30% burn will seem to hit way more than it should. Additionally, scald provides coverage and additional attack as opposed to a status move that loses its use once burn is applied.
In my opinion:
1 Rock: stealth rocks shape the entire metagame since it came up, removing the flying type hazard immunity and nerfing hard the super offensive fire type (F for bug and ice). And still, in the prior gens you really don't want to take a stone edge/rock slide from a aerodactyl.
2 U-turn and bug buzz (the only good bug move): a free switch for your oppenent and a death of yours... sounds really bad.
3 dark: Ghost check, a lot of moves, an item removal, a 70bp priority move, a move boosted by sharpness that create spikes...
It really is odd that Talonflame is the only time Flying type moves have had priority huh. Never thought about that.
Mega Pinsir
The only way I know of for taking super-effective damage from a normal type move is a normalize freeze dry against a water type.
Yeah, Normal type weakness was purely hypothetical, but that is an interesting way to do it!
I feel like were kinda underrating how difficult it is to be weak to fairy. Hydreigon went from being a literal nuclear powerhouse to super duper mid from one gen to the next thanks to the fairy type. Even though theres no many fairy type moves being used, thats because you only need ply rough draining kiss moonblast because those moves cover everything you need. Fairy non stab is often being run to check all the dark and dragon types running around.
Honestly, I'd say its less of the fairy type offensivly, but instead, the fairy type defensivly. Hydreigon was solid in gen 5 (B- rank), but with the introduction of the fairy type, it wasn't as easy to spam dragon moves. Dragmag was popular in gen 5 because only steels resisted dragon type moves, but now fairy types could stop that. Sure, the fact that the fairy type could threaten the dragon type back was important, but moreso that you now had a pokemon that could very easily switch into the Hydreigon.
If you got Bolt-Beam coverage, you're really good off.
Bolt-Beam mean Thunderbolt and Icebeam. Basically most Pokémon can't savely switch into a Pokémon with an Ice and Electric move.
While flying has no priority moves, talonflame gets priority on all flying moves regardless. Though that's only a factor if the meta shifts to justify having a talonflame to begin with, like having more meta mons being quad weak to flying.
Also grass has rillaboom grassy glide, which is a little more common now, along with ogrepon running around.
I mean, Talonflame is decent right now, but its use is as a flame body stallmon, so gale wings probably won't see a whole lot of use.
electric has a priority move called thunderclap now
How the mighty psychic has fallen.
Always a personal treat to hear hollow knight music
Especially that PERFECT TIMING on Broken Vessel
Hollow Knight Music is 🔥
Also, thank you!
The Grass type does have a priority move but it’s very specific on how it works. It’s called grassy glide
Yeah, I forgor bout that, but grassy glide is pretty much Rillaboom's signature move.
@@blip_exists it was a Sword and shield DLC move that was given to a bunch of Pokémon via tm/tr
@@hauntedhaunter2406 Thats why its "pretty much" Rillaboom's signature move, because nothing else really uses it, even if other things do get it.
It’s rare to see a TH-camr encourage constructive criticism- subbed!
The best moves are those with a no lose situation. Knockoff might be the best move ever. Unless they have a Pokémon with justified (which is rare), you win that turn, either you knock out their Psycic, or you remove an item from another Mon.
Yep, in a way, that a good overall summary of what makes some types so good!
I think a big reason that lando can run 4x ice weakness is that the opponent either has no stab or is weak to stone edge
Bro, Rock HAS to be higher on the list. Stealth Rocks is arguably the single most impactful move in modern competitive Pokemon
So, the thing with rock, as it certainly is one of the worst in older generations. However, with the addition of heavy duty boots, its workable. I could definitely see it being ranked higher, if only because of rocks. Rock could probably vary the most across generations, as in generations without defog or heavy duty boots, it can require massive amounts of support, but in generations with defog and heavy duty boots, it can be fairly manageable, so long as you avoid knock off.
I'd disagree. That's only true for singles. In doubles, it isn't as useful. You aren't switching nearly as often in doubles as you are in singles. And spending a turn to set it up risks far more punishment in doubles as 2 pokemon can slap you.
This does change a bit with Kleavor and stone axe. Being able to set up stealth rocks while also doing damage makes it viable. But if you are talking about the move stealth rocks, it usually isn't worth it.
It is and it isn’t. Especially with the nerfed distribution of knock off in gen 9 you kinda got to dedicate your whole team to hazards to make hazards good. You are gonna have to make a concession to fit knock off on your team and without knock off stealth rocks straight up ain’t worth it especially over spikes which does more damage to mons who wouldn’t run boots. Boots presence significantly nerfs hazards and honestly the most impactful part Of people running stealth rocks is because if people stop you let people get away with not running boots on these mons that otherwise didn’t have an item slot beyond stopping rocks. People actively run hazardless teams post boots far more often and a lot of people prefer screens as a thing they can setup for an advantage now a days. However those teams dedicated to making hazards work spending half their team on it are quite effective and in that case yeah that’s a major problem being weak to rocks. Some matchups it’s not impactful at all some it’s basically a death sentence
Now do a tier list on pokemon that you could beat in hand to hand combat
Literally nothing, I'm weak as can be.
@@blip_existsnot even flabébé?
@@johncronk8867 I'm allergic to flowers, so yes
Gale wings talonflame:
Garchomp being quad weak to Ice wasn't as big of a deal when it was introduced because nearly every Ice type was bad, but Iron Leaves has to deal with weaknesses that are significantly more prevelant.
Technically, Dark has a sort of pivot move with Parting Shot, although it doesn't make any damage, just cripples a little Atk and SpA
I'm curious as to why birdspam fell off. Is it cause there's no more mega pinsir and talonflame got nerfed? I expected flying to be a lot higher on the list
Yeah, mainly that. Talonflame didn't just get nerfed, its role has changed entirely. In OU right now, only Pelipper commonly runs flying moves, with Corvinknight sometimes running flying moves. Beyond that, nothing runs them, and all of them are managable.
I've usually just viewed it as this weird type triangle:
Ground being the most common allows Water to keep it in check.
Water however falls to Electric Types which can very easily tear through teams.
Electric therefore forces Ground Types upon teams.
It's strange for several reasons, First is that Electric isn't seeing an immense number of usage despite arguably being the best pairing for Ground.
You'd figure Grass or even Freezy Dry would destroy the meta if this was the case but suprisingly no.
This is due to the same reason Ground is even popular to begin with, The most centralizing type in the entire franchise: Steel.
Fire dosen't run rampant as Ground shuts it down which only leaves two types, Ground and Fighting.
Altough not directly a Type matchup Fighting faces the same issue as Ground: Water
A consequence of both being heavily in favor of physical attackers hence Bulky Waters defeating both especially in a Scald metagame.
The last thing about this odd triangle is that you can actually swap Water for Flying and most everything stays functional.
Didn't want to go on for so long but it's just a metagame rabbit hole.
Also I should mention that you don't need any of these types but you'll find yourself hitting a brick wall very quickly if you're not prepared to battle against them.
The only thing holding freeze dry back is the pokemon who get it. Kyreum is the only pokemon that is decent in OU (and is not in ubers or RU) that wants to run special attacks.
And that is an interesting type triangle, though you do kinda need a ground type, volt switch is a dumb move cause unlike bug, electric is a good type.
Don't forget that Ice type has no resistances
subscribed because a mono bug rain team is genius
AND this guy made an orderly and understood video with clear arguments AND this guy cited reliable sources for people to check out
Iron leaves aka uturn weak virizion was doomed not only for being weak to uturn, but also having a mid ass typing that gets walled by a lot, even if it learns a lot of coverage moves
While I agree with the placement of MOST of the types on this list, I have some problems with the methodology of determining them. First off, I may be misunderstanding how the moves were recorded from the sample teams, but the list seems to be very inconsistent regarding whether the number of different moves of one type matter in its placement, or overall frequency of any moves of that type. It also would be more interesting to see the frequency of the move types compared with frequency of pokemon WEAK to that type. I would also like to see some metric including the average basepower of the moves of a given type as well, with extra consideration given to moves with secondary effects. There is also a big difference between attacking types based on niche - some types are excellent as overall coverage, whereas others are included simply as counters to specific threats. A fair analysis of these would require taking the threats into consideration as well. The methodology used in this video also seems completely dependent on the current meta - because of the aformentioned niche problem, its likely that the inclusion of a NEW pokemon with unique typing into the OU scene would drastically change the usage of certain types, particularly if this new mon was a large threat and appeared frequently on teams.
Other things to consider:
It is literally impossible to be WEAK to normal, so that should be bottom of the list.
There are no possible dual type combos that lead to 4x weakness to dragon, that may factor in as well.
The amount of moves used was mainly for the types that had a lot in common with other types, such as all the types that had a single priority move. And yes, if I were to redo this video, I would improve the methodology (I might make a sequel to the video because of how much could be improved about it) by looking at all moves used, across all tiers.
And I would argue that Normal should be on the list, though only hypothetically. It doesn't matter either way, and I felt that for this video it was important to mention the hypothetical.
The same kinda applies to dragon, though if I ever do remake this video, I will mention that dragon is different in that regard.
imo the problem of being weak to bug is that u-turn is the easiest move to spam in the game
My favorite type is psychic, so while this video is painful to watch, it’s still accurate lmao
It sure is a shame pursuit no longer exists in future gens
Talon flame giving priority to flying move should account for something tbh.
Celebi: First time?
New priority electric type attack dropped 🌩️👏🏻
Parting shot is a dark type pivot move 😊
How can you be 4 times weak to dragon? He is only supereffective against dragon
I think that rock type should have a higher position in the list, true, heavy duty boots exist but you have to use them and that means that you can't use a better item that would give you a better advantage like lifeorb, leftovers, etc. a lot of pokemon are conditioned to use HDB to be viable just because their are weak to rock and that's something BIG
Before watching video, my assumptions for top 3 are Rock (Stealth Rock), Bug (U-Turn), and Ground...
Before watching video, is it u-turn?
Meowscarada is 4x weak to U-turn (pre-Protean), but it has no issue being OU.
4x weaknesses mainly apply to slower pokemon, where the weakness is more exploitable. Meowscarada can avoid its weaknesses to an absurd degree, due to being incredibly fast, having pivoting of its own, and being able to use protean to resist bug. So while yes, it is weak to bug, it isn't as major of a problem as you might think.
If anything is weak to Knock off(sucker punch and pursuit as a result), u-turn, EQ and volt switch suffers...a lot.
Scald too
I have to wonder if the pseudo legendaries are proof that ice weakness isnt that bad. Distribution is more limited than something like ground, and you are less likely to be hit by STAB.
I also think ghost and fairy belong higher up on the list since they have so few resistances and are always used by very powerful pokemon like Flutter Mane.
So with ghost and fairy having few resistances, I should have probably considered that more, but that applies more to it being a good attacking type than it applies to it being a bad type to be weak to, even if those two things are somewhat connected.
Wait, does grassy glide no longer exist in this gen? Cause when used in grassy terrain (like rillaboom would in gen 8) it gets priority.
I actually forgor about grassy glide, but its practically the signature move of Rillaboom, who no longer gets it, and I didn't consider signature moves in this.
I'd assume water, ground, and dark. Water types are always present in the meta, just about any physical attacker that gets earthquake will run earthquake, and knock off is a very bad move to be weak to.
Edit: ayyy pretty close
Its kinda weird that electric and flying types dont have any priority moves
Grass does have a priority move
it's Grassy Glide
it's not in Scarlet and Violet right now but it's very possible it's coming in the dlc available from move tutors
It's highly situational however as only Rillaboom can successfully use it unless you build your team around it
How is normal on the list if you can’t be weak to it?
When you said "guess how many ground type attacking moves were used?" I out loud said, "I don't know, like, 13?"
Nice
One thing I didn't think you included in your analysis are the offensive capabilities of the types listed and the roles of the pokemon using the offensive move. For example, I think you rated steel too high, as steel is actually a pretty poor offensive type, with many types resisting it and only super effective damage against fairies, rocks, and ice. Ice and Rock have so many other weaknesses that steel is almost negligible to take into account, and Fairies are absolutely busted and are barely dragged down by it at all. Plus, the vast majority of steel types are defensive behemoths, with some notable offensive exceptions being Lucario, Kartana, Metagross, and Heatran. And even with some offensive steels like Heatran and Celesteela, their defensive sets are so good that it's a huge opportunity cost to run an offensive set. I also think that you rated ghost and dragon too low, because even though not too many pokemon are weak to ghost or dragon, if, for example, your opponent switches a specs Dragapult in on your Koraidon's Collision Course and you're running an offensive team, you're kinda just screwed, since that thing will almost certainly be claiming a KO with either specs meteor or specs shadow ball unless you happen to be running Wigglytuff or something silly. Since they have each only have 1 resistance and 1 immunity (though I think ghosts are better because normals kinda suck), staring down a pokemon with a powerful offensive stab such as Dragapult with almost no way to switch into their attacks do to their spammable stabs without taking huge damage is a real problem. Tack onto that fact that Dragon and Ghost are both offensively monstrous types and suddenly being a defensive dragon or being a psychic type at all really starts to be grim. No defensive pokemon that is weak to dragon or ghost is a viable choice in OU likely because of their weaknesses to dragon or ghost.
Also, let's talk about ice. Ice isn't actually that bad to be weak to. If it were truly so hampering, the metagames from gen 4-9 wouldn't have Garchomp as one of the top dawgs, gen 5-9 wouldn't see Landorus-T doing the griddy all over them, ground types in general wouldn't be so dominant, and gen 5 wouldn't be overrun by dragon types. Even though ice's offensive capabilities are nearly peerless, ice types suck. Also, Ice is resisted by both water and steel, which sucks. Ice has no resistances besides ice, which sucks. Even in gen 9, there have only been three viable ice types, Chien-Pao, Iron Bundle, and Baxcalibur. Iron bundle, I'll admit, gets a ton of mileage out of its ice stab. Chien-Pao almost wishes it wasn't ice type, so it can spam its Banded-Tera Crunches with even more impunity without worrying nearly so much about stealth rocks. Baxcalibur, admittedly, distinguishes itself from other physical dragon attackers with its ice typing, but its ice movepool is limited, and suprisingly it kinda just loves to spam Glaive Rush instead. Ice typing nearly always drags a pokemon down in viability, which makes them plummet through the tiering to be threats in lower tiers, if not ending up untiered. The only reason one might consider being weak to ice to be a significant weakness is if a pokemon is using it as a coverage option, such as water types using ice beam to hit grasses and dragons for super effective damage. Even then, ice is not the real threat, it simply reduces the amount of answers to the STABs. Examples include Empoleon in gen 4, Lando-T in gens 5-7 (sometimes ran HP ice for other Lando-T), and Suicune/Swampert throughout the years.
I do agree, being weak to dark is one of the worst things that can happen to a pokemon. There's a reason why in gens 4-5, it's referred to as being "weak to pursuit."
Tl;Dr, being weak to some types is not worse thanbeing weak to others exclusively because of weaknesses and resistances in the type charts, and movepools. Some types are better or worse to be weak to based on the archetype of the the type in question, such as bulky steels/waters, or offensive ghosts/dragons. The types are also ranked by the pokemon in them. Being weak to Ghost absolutely sucks because now a powerful ghost attacker is threatening your entire team with Shadow ball, and you can't stay in. Being weak to ice is very manageable, not only because the types that are weak to ice are extremely good, but the types that resist it are also very good, and ice types suck. And finally, neutralities are just as important as weaknesses and resistances.
These are all really good points. Overall with this video, I prolly should've put more effort into the critera, and I would say I agree with your assments. A lot of this list was based solely on the immunities other types have, and the moves of the type, so a lot of what your comment says helps add to the depth of the consideration for worst type to be weak too.
However, some minor nitpicks, 1. A main reason why a lot of dragon weak pokemon aren't walls, is because only dragon is weak to dragon, and most dragon types aren't really made to be walls. Two that I can think of are Hisuian Goodra and Latias, but Hoodra is neutral to dragon, and Latias also is offensive sometimes. However, the dragons that are defensive do suffer from it because of the dragon weakness, I just don't think thats the reason there are few to no defensive dragons. 2. I think ice might be a bit better then you say it is, it makes a very good coverage option, and the pokemon that are weak to it have really good properties to make up for the weakness (such as dragonite and gliscor shrugging off weaker ice typed attacks). However, it is a huge issue to have it as a type, which means stab ice is less common, so I do agree that ice being a bad type does make the weakness to it less important, but maybe not to the degree you do.
What was the song used in the video when the number 17 appeared on screen?
Scorched Feathers From Kid Icarus Uprising
@@blip_exists oh...it plays at the end of the song for like 40 seconds 😒 Ty though
Flying type are good,but flying attacks mostly sucks.
One very normal question, how can something be x4 weak to dragon?
Both dragon and normal where moreso theoreticals
Isn't parting shot a pivoting move?
I feel like this is a lil arbitrary to a certain extent, like I'd rather a mon be weak to a dragon type move than a poison type move in OU because, well, it would BE a dragon, and the mon with dragon type coverage would have to switch in on Garchomp or dragapult, versus clodsire or amoongus.
"no one is immune to flying moves"
Unless it's wind based flying moves *brambleghast smiles*
Uh, how is it possible to be 4x weak to dragon? Or normal for that matter
Nope, those two where both hypothetical.