Very comprehensive review. Probably the best sleeping bag review I have ever seen on TH-cam. Subscribed! Question: Do you alter your sleep-clothing 'system' when using the WM VBL? I have heard from some that you should only wear a thin base layer when using the VBL??
I have seen some new designs that have an insulated flap that covers the zipper externally but is not too tight as to interfere with the zipping process. It does provide a significant R value.
Thanks so much Aaron. After watching your videos my son purchased an overfilled Bison. You definitely were an influence in that purchase. He also probably had to out do me, My overfilled Cypress has a measly -30 rating! Haha! Until I slip my MityLite inside, then it's on!
Sir for what you do sounds like you might need the -60F Feathered Friends Snowy Owl, or the - 50F Valandre Thor Neo sleeping bag. However both of the bags I mentioned are like $1200.00 each, stay safe✌.
That "Thor" model looks awesome and roomy. The "Snowy Owl" looks too tapered to place gear goodies inside when sleeping (though probably better on weight)...Also, look at the Pajak Radical 16H in this price point if you're going into snowy outer space (-99 extreme range)
Thank you for the comparison! Great video, one question that came from it for me was that you recommended the Bison over the Puma for Aconcagua, whereas all the providers I looked at recommend a -20 degree bag, which made me lean more towards the Puma. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks for comparing them. It's worth noting that updated Puma MF (168/145/99) is actually wider inside than Bison (163/140/99). All else being equal this allows you more room inside to layer and extend the range of Puma. I'm wondering when you sleep in those temperatures do you cover your mouth with something in order to make it a little warmer to breathe and protect exposed skin? I camped in -7F and it was very cold for tip of my nose and around mouth.
My puma is an older model, so I'm sure there have been changes over time. Good to note, thank you. No, I never cover my mouth/nose. Even at -60, I haven't had too many problems. If it gets bad, I'll put a head band over my nose. I don't like breathing through things - they ice up and it restricts breathing which is already tough at 12k feet.
I like the Antelope's continuous baffles so I can adjust the comfort of the bag if needed. The Lynx is a great step up into a full expedition bag with options of microfiber or Gore Windstop. If you're debating, go with the Lynx - more room, more warmth, 1/2 lb extra weight. Western Mountaineering Lynx: amzn.to/41dyyme Western Mountaineering Antelope: amzn.to/2ZRebA1
Hi. How long were your winter trips for? I'm asking about body vapor and the degradation of down over time. People I talk to have serious concerns about down on UL skitouring/hiking more than a ~week. A video to consider is to talk about body vapor and how it effects your down sleeping bag. What happens over time. Etc. Thank you
Use the Puma - The Bison would be great at high camp but that's it. I'm just chilly in the evening for a while until I warm up in it, esp. when the temps hit -35ºF.
It's all relative. Great review! So much good detail. I have a 20° WM ultra light. I love it, but was a little cold in 10° Yellowstone Spring. Would a Puma be overkill? Should I just get the reactor insert? Also, what do you do for condensation? Thanks.
I would get a Puma for Yellowstone in the winter/early spring. I've been in -45º there. It can get sub-zero in March. I would've been in trouble with an ultralite. The condensation - for the sleeping bag, I'm making a video on how to dry it while snow camping. For the tent, you have to keep the doors open.
@@ALinsdau thank you very much. The temperatures I think I'll be in should be 0°F at most. I'm not ready for -45!. I have a lot of issues with my sleeping bag getting icy around the face area. Do you have specific strategies on freaking with that? Thanks.
I LIVE IN JUNEAU, AK. PLAN ON FUTURE HUNTING AND FISHING WINTER TRIPS IN ALASKAS INTERIOR. SAVING FOR A SLEEPING BAG WHAT ARE SEVERAL RECOMMENDATIONS OTHER THAN THE BISON AND PUMA. THANKS.
I have the Kodiak GWS 0 and you can push it into the negatives. It's a stellar comfort cocoon all around and the weather protection is industry tops (you can also snow bivy with it without a hitch). But, if you know you'll be in many-days neg-10's (or below), the Puma GWS would be your ride
Great review. But you don’t cover the showering facilities on these trips. I am beginning to suspect there might be the odd night when you can’t wash properly. 😑😬
@@ALinsdau I don't suppose either of you have a photo of how small they'll compress, do you? I'm considering the Cypress GWS Expedition and the Bristlecone MF for a kayaking trip, and need for it to fit in the hatch, with enough room for other gear, as well as for easy carrying through portages. I've looked and looked but can't find a photo that will allow me to see the scale.
Do you think the bison would be too warm for sleeping at 0-10 degrees? I’m trying to decide between the puma and bison for winter backpacking mostly in the lower 48 and I’m just worried the bison might be overkill.
@@ALinsdau thank you for the responses! I just ordered a puma gws. Hopefully it gets here before the end of winter 🤞. Love your videos! Thanks for all the info!
@@millennialfalcon870 ...even that may be overkill. I can push my West Mntr Kodiak GWS 0 into the negatives...Did you take the Puma out into 0 deg to -10 yet? How was it?
@@gavinhalm3016 after 2 years of using the puma for ski bumming in the passenger seat of my car and in an unheated/uninsulated cargo trailer, i personally wish i wouldve went with the bison. I can survive with the puma, but when it’s -10 to -15 everynight i wish i had a little bit more.
It maxes out the Sea to Summit XL eVent dry sack: www.amazon.com/Sea-Summit-Event-Compression-Sack/dp/B000NQQ5AA?th=1&psc=1 Dimensions available here: seatosummitusa.com/products/event-compression-dry-sack?variant=7896126947356
How much do these bags cost? They look very expensive. And last question. I'm 6 feet tall but I'm a bigger guy then u I'm wide and broad and its impossible to find bigger bags for bigger people. U get in and can't zip up and have any room except for wiggys bags which I own. They hand make all their bags and u can customize them a bit for size and color and zipper placement. But their all synthetic filled. However their exactly true to the temp rating. If its a zero deg bag it's good to zero comfortably. His bags go to -60 deg negative 60 def F. They make polar bags and all sorts of bags. I own one and their amazing. They make to order in the USA. Wiggys .but if I want a down bag big for wider thicker people why is it so hard?? I'm not all fat just bigger. Thanks if u can help me. Be well!
Get the Western Mountaineering items on Amazon:
MegaLite: amzn.to/2XJHm1H
UltraLite: amzn.to/2Zw0XnN
Versalite: amzn.to/2DvuoNq
Antelope: amzn.to/2GxLfQf
Puma: amzn.to/2GpPblW
Bison: amzn.to/2pxi7no
VBL Vapor Barrier Liner Hotsac: amzn.to/2Vm0ZiD
Down booties: amzn.to/2RjmX1i
Thank you for showing these two bags - no stores near me have them so I can see what they're like.
You're welcome.
Very comprehensive review. Probably the best sleeping bag review I have ever seen on TH-cam. Subscribed!
Question: Do you alter your sleep-clothing 'system' when using the WM VBL? I have heard from some that you should only wear a thin base layer when using the VBL??
I use the same clothes with and without the VBL. It's not enjoyable either way, so it's a thing to get through.
Thanks for the review Aaron.
I have seen some new designs that have an insulated flap that covers the zipper externally but is not too tight as to interfere with the zipping process. It does provide a significant R value.
Nice!
Thanks so much Aaron. After watching your videos my son purchased an overfilled Bison. You definitely were an influence in that purchase. He also probably had to out do me, My overfilled Cypress has a measly -30 rating! Haha! Until I slip my MityLite inside, then it's on!
Great to hear!
How do you like the Cypress? I was thinking of going with the Bristlecone cause I don't think I need GWS. I need a roomy bag.
Made my decision easier, thanks! (ended up with the Puma GWS)
Glad to help - Send some video clips of your new bag.
How is your Puma GWS so far? Are you glad that you got GWS and not MF? Any issues with your bag feeling damp in the morning?
Sir for what you do sounds like you might need the -60F Feathered Friends Snowy Owl, or the - 50F Valandre Thor Neo sleeping bag. However both of the bags I mentioned are like $1200.00 each, stay safe✌.
Thanks for the tips!
That "Thor" model looks awesome and roomy. The "Snowy Owl" looks too tapered to place gear goodies inside when sleeping (though probably better on weight)...Also, look at the Pajak Radical 16H in this price point if you're going into snowy outer space (-99 extreme range)
@@ALinsdau (as per my response to the OP as well): also check out the Pajak Radical 16H in this extreme range
I love how these bags are made in America.
Can't go wrong there.
Thank you for the comparison! Great video, one question that came from it for me was that you recommended the Bison over the Puma for Aconcagua, whereas all the providers I looked at recommend a -20 degree bag, which made me lean more towards the Puma. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks for comparing them. It's worth noting that updated Puma MF (168/145/99) is actually wider inside than Bison (163/140/99). All else being equal this allows you more room inside to layer and extend the range of Puma. I'm wondering when you sleep in those temperatures do you cover your mouth with something in order to make it a little warmer to breathe and protect exposed skin? I camped in -7F and it was very cold for tip of my nose and around mouth.
My puma is an older model, so I'm sure there have been changes over time. Good to note, thank you.
No, I never cover my mouth/nose. Even at -60, I haven't had too many problems. If it gets bad, I'll put a head band over my nose. I don't like breathing through things - they ice up and it restricts breathing which is already tough at 12k feet.
Any thoughts on the Lynx? Debating between Antelope and Lynx. Not sure how I like continuous baffles on Antelope. Lynx has slight more room in hips.
I like the Antelope's continuous baffles so I can adjust the comfort of the bag if needed. The Lynx is a great step up into a full expedition bag with options of microfiber or Gore Windstop. If you're debating, go with the Lynx - more room, more warmth, 1/2 lb extra weight.
Western Mountaineering Lynx: amzn.to/41dyyme
Western Mountaineering Antelope: amzn.to/2ZRebA1
@@ALinsdau thanks 👍
Hi. How long were your winter trips for?
I'm asking about body vapor and the degradation of down over time. People I talk to have serious concerns about down on UL skitouring/hiking more than a ~week.
A video to consider is to talk about body vapor and how it effects your down sleeping bag. What happens over time. Etc.
Thank you
Trips have been for weeks and months.
Great video idea - thank you!
It's funny that the bison bag makes the puma look small and the purple bag in the back just looks like a blanket.
It's pretty crazy.
Great review
Thanks for watching.
It's minus 40 degrees in Interior Alaska right now.
Brrrr...
Which one would you recommend for Denali in mid May or mid June?
Use the Puma - The Bison would be great at high camp but that's it. I'm just chilly in the evening for a while until I warm up in it, esp. when the temps hit -35ºF.
great video! Confirming these are the regular length (6'0) versions of these bags, is that correct?
These are the 6'6" versions
It's all relative. Great review! So much good detail. I have a 20° WM ultra light. I love it, but was a little cold in 10° Yellowstone Spring. Would a Puma be overkill? Should I just get the reactor insert? Also, what do you do for condensation? Thanks.
I would get a Puma for Yellowstone in the winter/early spring. I've been in -45º there. It can get sub-zero in March. I would've been in trouble with an ultralite. The condensation - for the sleeping bag, I'm making a video on how to dry it while snow camping. For the tent, you have to keep the doors open.
@@ALinsdau thank you very much. The temperatures I think I'll be in should be 0°F at most. I'm not ready for -45!. I have a lot of issues with my sleeping bag getting icy around the face area. Do you have specific strategies on freaking with that? Thanks.
I LIVE IN JUNEAU, AK. PLAN ON FUTURE HUNTING AND FISHING WINTER TRIPS IN ALASKAS INTERIOR. SAVING FOR A SLEEPING BAG WHAT ARE SEVERAL RECOMMENDATIONS OTHER THAN THE BISON AND PUMA. THANKS.
Feathered Friends are also very good options.
@@ALinsdau Thank You
Could you do a review on the Kodiak??
If I can get hold of one I will.
I have the Kodiak GWS 0 and you can push it into the negatives. It's a stellar comfort cocoon all around and the weather protection is industry tops (you can also snow bivy with it without a hitch). But, if you know you'll be in many-days neg-10's (or below), the Puma GWS would be your ride
Great review. But you don’t cover the showering facilities on these trips. I am beginning to suspect there might be the odd night when you can’t wash properly. 😑😬
Showers - that would be nice on a trip like this.
What’s the warmest temp you’ve used the bison at?
Air temp outside -15ºF. With the sun out and no wind, the inside of the tent was 25ºF. The Bison was way too hot.
2:22 you can see the horizontal ruler going down. I would love to add myself 2 inches with that technique. 😆
Thanks for watching.
Compresses into stuff sack smaller than I'd imagined.
It's pretty crazy how small you can squish these.
@@ALinsdau I don't suppose either of you have a photo of how small they'll compress, do you? I'm considering the Cypress GWS Expedition and the Bristlecone MF for a kayaking trip, and need for it to fit in the hatch, with enough room for other gear, as well as for easy carrying through portages. I've looked and looked but can't find a photo that will allow me to see the scale.
Hot Sac VBL - No longer available anywhere on the internet.
Crud, that's a shame.
Do you think the bison would be too warm for sleeping at 0-10 degrees? I’m trying to decide between the puma and bison for winter backpacking mostly in the lower 48 and I’m just worried the bison might be overkill.
The Bison is massive overkill for 0-10ºF.
@@ALinsdau thank you for the responses! I just ordered a puma gws. Hopefully it gets here before the end of winter 🤞. Love your videos! Thanks for all the info!
@@millennialfalcon870 ...even that may be overkill. I can push my West Mntr Kodiak GWS 0 into the negatives...Did you take the Puma out into 0 deg to -10 yet? How was it?
@@gavinhalm3016 after 2 years of using the puma for ski bumming in the passenger seat of my car and in an unheated/uninsulated cargo trailer, i personally wish i wouldve went with the bison. I can survive with the puma, but when it’s -10 to -15 everynight i wish i had a little bit more.
What's the dimensions of the bison bag in a stuff sack?
It maxes out the Sea to Summit XL eVent dry sack:
www.amazon.com/Sea-Summit-Event-Compression-Sack/dp/B000NQQ5AA?th=1&psc=1
Dimensions available here:
seatosummitusa.com/products/event-compression-dry-sack?variant=7896126947356
very nice indeed if you can afford it!
They're definitely spendy. But in the Arctic and Antarctic, big money bags are what's required.
I could see myself getting the Puma someday, probably not the Bison though
The Bison is definitely a special use case.
Please provide metric conversion, on screen if easier.
Can do.
How much do these bags cost? They look very expensive. And last question. I'm 6 feet tall but I'm a bigger guy then u I'm wide and broad and its impossible to find bigger bags for bigger people. U get in and can't zip up and have any room except for wiggys bags which I own. They hand make all their bags and u can customize them a bit for size and color and zipper placement. But their all synthetic filled. However their exactly true to the temp rating. If its a zero deg bag it's good to zero comfortably. His bags go to -60 deg negative 60 def F. They make polar bags and all sorts of bags. I own one and their amazing. They make to order in the USA. Wiggys .but if I want a down bag big for wider thicker people why is it so hard?? I'm not all fat just bigger. Thanks if u can help me. Be well!
WM are expensive. Good polar stuff isn’t cheap. It’s tough to find custom bags. Check Feathered
Friends - they do a -60 bag.
@@ALinsdau
I just wanted to say thankyou for taking the time to answer all my ?s ive sent. Ive sent alot. Thanku. Be well sir.
Cant afford either
They're not cheap for sure.