You're taking the HUGE L that is inserting a computer between your wrist and that valve, and then don't even get to enjoy any potential touring benefits. Fuch that!
after an absence of 25 years, i bought a ducati S2R 800 Monster. Before riding it I took 4 hours of riding lessons in a driving school, I did not need that with a valid licence, but for the sake of safety and getting along with the controls again, it certainly was worth the money.
Abs is a good thing for many, but I seek out a bike with the least nanny tech possible. Less to go wrong, easier to fix and maintain, and provides the analog experience a bike should.
@@nonyabusiness4151 there is no need to tap the pedal with ABS, its "going nuts" because its doing that for you faster than you ever could. I do agree though it does feel a bit unsettling
The Hayabusa lets you turn off everything but the ABS, by some stupid law. Just hope that the fuse for the ABS motor doesn't blow out. The one in the fuse box on the left hand side 😁
My newest bike has a balance control system. Two extra wheels. It is much more stable, although no longer leans in turns as bikes in the olden days used to.
I've got the same thing for my bike! I even went the extra step to install a roll-cage as well as extra seats with windows for my passengers viewing pleasure!
I believe that general rider aids keep motorcyclists safer. For example, you can buy a bike with ABS and still practice emergency braking. When done properly, the ABS will not activate. You can take it easy in corners, in the rain, and so on. When this is done, TC will not activate. A quickshifter is less complicated to use. You can, however, shift normally even on a bike with a quickshifter. A DCT removes the need to shift manually at all, thus making the ride easier. I don't like the mentality that says real bikes don't have rider aids. Yes, if you can only ride a DCT bike, it severely limits the bikes you can ride. Well, some people don't want to ride a ton of different bikes. I've never been in an emergency situation in which I had to ride someone else's bike. So a person does not "need" to learn to ride a manual bike. I guess the bottomline is, motorcycles' popularity is reducing (at least in the US). Making bikes easier to ride and safer will likely attract a younger audience who doesn't care about motorcycle tradition.
I turned my Ducati Streetfighter V4S to race mode the day i bought it 3 years ago, and have never changed modes ever since. I also turned off wheelie control and set the ABS and TC to the minimal settings. I prefer to modulate the inputs, rather than relying on the electronic nannies.
I binned my 2010 fz1 abs when the abs pump failed and it became beyond economic to repair. I'm now back on an sv1000 and am loving it. No emissions bollocks and no unnecessary tech. Here in the UK any fault code light is an mot inspection fail.
I restore bikes from the 70's and 80's and one thing has become apparent - it's easier to find parts for a 74 CB550 than it is for my 87 FZR1000. The FZR has a Gen 1 TCI and I lay awake at night thinking what the hell I would do if the ignition module failed. There's nothing to replace it. With today's purpose-built planned obsolescence, I'm guessing we'll have a decade or two of motorcycles that will be considered disposable and unrepairable in 10 to 15 years when the shiny new replacement tech comes along. I can see component manufacturers abandoning support for hardware or software long before the engines or drivetrains fail.
3D printing. I would 3D scan that Part. Or any limited part. Do my own 3% improvements get it 3d printed in A metal.Could even sell it. Send orders directly to manufacture and take profit. All possible.
@@AntD215 I'm talking about things like sensors, servos and software, not small parts. We're already seeing cars being left for dead when they depreciate and you find that your $500 car needs a $700 part.
Ken. The Harley after market world is already addressing stuff like this by producing carb kits to replace evo fuel injection systems and the same with points ignitions to replace electronic boxes that die. Problems though with legislators I know. Maybe we will be riding (or not, see my post a few back) on bikes that will get re cycled totally every 10 years or so. Look at the Japanese market where second hand bikes and cars are nearly priced off the roads by fees and licensing costs. But the market keeps supplying what we buy. What are we telling them?
I've been riding every year all year long for almost 50 years. I am glad that I was able to hone my skills, such as emergency braking, on bikes without electronic rider aids. I currently own a 1966 Norton Atlas (my first bike) and a 2003 Yamaha FZ1, both of which are very mechanical and easy to work on. I recently bought a 2021 Yamaha MT-10 which does have anti-lock brakes, traction control, cruise control, etc. but no 6-axis IMU. Since I'm in my mid-70s, I figured I get a bike with a few safety features as I know my reaction time, etc., ain't what it used to be. The MT-10 has become my "go to" bike, but I still get a thrill from riding the Atlas (kick-start only) and the FZ1 as well. Every bike has its own character.
Yes it's all about choice, I'm older too and though I have the skills and experience to ride with zero aids I can deffo see the advantages of the systems emergencies ... I wonder how well these systems cope with diesel spills etc when cornering? I haven't ridden for 20 years and my last bike had nothing in the way of rider aids, never had a problem just ride to my abilities and the road conditions ( all through winter which hones your skills and makes summer riding easy as pie )
Perfect episode. I'm an old-school guy, a purist. I got caught in a rain storm on a naked bike the other day. As I cornered onto the highway, the rear tire slipped. Before my brain realized what, happened my hand had already chopped the throttle. But I can see how rider aids help. I only own 2 motorcycles, neither have rider aids. It has definitely made me a better rider.
To each their own. I think what we need are more people teaching people how to ride with, or without, all of those features. In Texas, we knew a rider who died while recklessly riding their old carbureted HD springer. While stationed at Ft. Carson, one of my squadmates wrecked his modern R6, by also riding recklessly. Don't let others tell you what to ride. You find a bike you like, and you ride it. But DO listen to those who tell you how to ride responsibly. That's what we really need.
This vid describes why i love my Royal enfield scram 411. Its simple and fun. When i want more power i hop on my SCL500. I dont need alot of power i want a simple bike i can master and become connected to (one with the bike)
I've been riding street bikes since I was 17, I'm 66 now. All this nanny tech has not improved the riding experience. I have no use for it at all. It just gets in the way, makes me have to fart around with things I never had to deal with before. Don't like any of this crap on my truck either. If I want something to do something , I'll push the button, don't do it for me - your fucking up my shit.
My ‘18 SV650 doesn’t even have ABS (I wish it did, but it was a screaming deal but I digress). When I move up to a XRS 900 or something, I will be glad it has rider aids as long as you can turn them off. That’s the beauty. Don’t want to use a quick shifter that day? Turn it off. I know only some bikes offer that versatility, but I am fine with it as long as it’s not forced on you.
I am a software developer and glad I don't have any digital stuff on my 30y old bike. But I understand using modern tech for safety reasons. Thing is, some systems are implemented only because they CAN be done now.
In some ways it definitely is. Riders become complacent by relying on the upgrades to correct rider mistakes and the same thing happens in cars and other vehicles. Personally, I think people should learn how to ride without the nanny items proficiently so they can truly understand how those items work and know the ultimate limits of the vehicle without them for when those items either fail or can't react fast enough.
Honestly. The amount of people I see say "speed wobbles just happen at random" is insane. Not saying dampers are a waste of money but you really don't *need* one.
@@Next2Null When I first started riding I almost felt obligated to buy things like less sensitive throttle tubes and other things to make riding easier, rather than just learning. I'm glad I didn't have money to waste on those things and that my first bike had no rider modes or aids (including quickshifter or ABS) and forced me to learn the basics. I love all the tech packages now that I know how to ride, but I feel it can actually hinder newer riders if taken for granted.
@@Cthooligan It's like automatic transmission in a way, isn't it? If you're only ever going to ride DCT's or CVT's you can go that route. But if you ever have to manage on a manual without prior experience: good luck, that'll take some getting used to and you'll probably stall a few times in awkward moments. Until the dystopian day arrives where all cars and bikes are electric (or similar) and thus automatic, I'd rather learn how to use both ;p
I‘m a hobby rider and except for touring I always ride in excellent weather conditions. So I can pretty much do without all electronics. My 20 year old Tuono has nothing not even ABS. Works just fine.
My 2024 Africa Twin has every single one of those gizmos that you mentioned, plus DCT. Wouldn't give 'em up for anything. I can turn them on or off, adjust them, make them work for me to make the ride more fun AND safer.
I learned to ride on a KLR650 and have ridden it for about the last 20 years. It has none of those acronyms. I have been through a lot and learned a lot. I do feel that my riding skill and those more subtle elements like braking and throttle control were developed because I had to learn them or else. Now, I am looking for a bike to tour with my wife two-up and I am really liking the idea of having a bike with all the bells and whistles because...well, they may very well help us stay safe. I am a mature rider with a mature riding outlook. With these modern tools, I hope to extend my riding 'career' when I had thought seriously about dismounting for good. So, I am glad to have learned on a basic machine but I am looking forward to the next phase that will be aided by technology.
Id consider myself a pretty decent rider. Certainly not the best, but also never dumped a bike. That being said I bought a 2023 ZH2 and boy was i thrilled when wheelie control kicked in when i hit a bump with the throttle pinned in second gear. ABS and WC are very benificial in my opinion
i recently bough a new bike with some features i thought were a good idea, but in practice there's only two i am that bothered about. ABS is one, and traction control for anti-wheelie is another, and maybe even then i could do without it. Riding modes, settings for this and that are just bells and whistles for marketing really, my old bike didn't have these and i got on fine, in fact too many options can lead you to worry if you are using the right one. better to learn to use what you have properly imho, and of course it's less expensive when something goes wrong lol. GL
Just a little over a week now with my bike (new rider/Honda Rebel 300), and although on paper the bike is very tame it’s still enough for me as a beginner rider ti get myself into some trouble if I’m not careful. I have the version without ABS so it’s just straight raw no tech safety features. I actually to appreciate it because like you mentioned it is forcing me to be more mindful when coming into a stop or going into corners. For a first bike like this I enjoy it so I can learn good habits now as I’m learning that way when I upgrade to a more powerful bike with tech I should have built up enough understanding and knowledge of good habits while riding. Love the vids ✊🏽
My 312 cc bike Apache RTR 310 have cornering abs, cornering tc, cornering cruise control(lowers speed according to angle), bidirectional quickshifter, ventelated seats heating and cooling same as car seats wheelie control, stopie control, launch control, full colored tft display, smart headlights, on board navigation, call and music control, gopro control 😂😂
I have had only 2 bikes with rather low cc (110 and 250) the first one without any computer assisted systems and the second one with only fuel injection and abs, love them both.
As a Canadian.. I look at this like I look at hockey sticks. Sticks are getting better, players are shooting faster…. However the new sticks break a lot more often..
I have always preferred cars with cable throttle and minimal tech. Which is part of why I went with the MT-07. Cable throttle, no traction control, or wheelie control. Just pure riding fun, with the safety net of ABS just in case.
When I restarted riding at an older age, I did it on a 2010 Triumph Street triple 675, cable trotthle control, no rider modes, no traction control, no ABS, and honestly, that bike doesn't need it. The engine is so lineair, but still revs really high, that your polscontrol just does the job. You can ride it smooth or you can be a hooligan, but it never surprised me, even if I was starting after over 20 years no riding. It was fun doing stoppies and other stupid things, without electronics intervening. These days I ride a 2016 Triumph Tiger Sport 1050 (yes the old speed triple engine). It has ride by wire, rider modes , traction control , ABS , heated grips, cruise control .... still an analogue revcounter ( same as my street triple). I like some features, but the street triple was the more funny bike. Oh, and well done with the video. There was a time, I was not a fan of the channel, but honnestly, the content and the way of presenting it is getting better and better, somehow more mature, without being dull and still that funny absurd humour. thank you
Totally agree, and as i use my bikes mainly for the 20 000 miles per year all year all weather rush hour lane filtering around Brussels and Antwerp, i love it that the rider aids free brainroom for road strategy, as i can use all the help i can get. (S1000XR and K1300GT)
One of the things I like about my ninja 650 is that it does feel raw because aside from TC (which never kicks in anyway on such a small bike) there isn't any tech. It does feel a bit more raw than say a GSX8R that I test rode a few months ago
I love my ABS and TC. Im driving mostly normal roads and mountain twisties. I sometimes have to believe that there is nothing on the road and i dont want my expensive new bike to crash cause i feel not man enough when riding with electronic helpers
I don't even my motor licence yet but I do have two bikes: a 1981 Moto Guzzi V50C and a 1983/84 Honda CM400T. Both are restauration projects but they'll be my first motorcycles to ride. Not that I'm a purist but I want to get a real feel for riding before getting something more advanced for more long-distance journey's. Also, these bikes are only a few years younger than I am so it wouldn't feel right to skip them in my journey of mastering the roads on two wheels :D
I'm glad I learned to ride motorcycles without any aids a/o enhancements, as it enabled me to gain a healthy, potentially few life-saving skills and habits (e.g. progressive braking, safe cornering, environment perception, etc..). However, on a few occasions, I would have welcomed ABS a/o TCS, just for the comfort, e.g. when I had to, a couple fo times, wade through traffic during heavy rain (as I was not so sure about others' perception, driving & braking skills), or when I had to get back from the top of mountain pass (Grossglockner in 2011, Turracher in 2017) in rain and mist and quite the low temperature.. The fun part is, that as I've been riding cruisers and, to a much lesser extent, choppers excusively, I have never felt a need for cruise control or built in navigation or stereo system to make the journey pass more swiftly.. Well, as of luck, I'm a Suzuki rider 😀 I think part of the experience is to not have a set goal for a ride (kind of an "home to place A then place B then back home in x amount of days" approach - I tried it once, midway through I abandoned it), but just enjoy it as-is. Frankly, my best trips were and still are those, when I just ride out and when the evening draws closer, I find some ad-hoc place to lay my head - and believe it or not, for the last 15 years, it worked perfectly every time. LbnL on the very subject of riding.. Allow me to (hopefully) quote a great dialogue from Twin Peaks (season 2, episode 6): Evelyn Marsh: - "Are you that way, James? Are you that way about your bike?" James Hurley: - "I guess I'm not so interested in how my bike looks as I am where it can take me." Evelyn Marsh: - "Where do you wanna go?" James Hurley: - "It's not really a place.. It's a feeling." Ride hard & ride safe 🙂
I love my r7 the only rider aid is abs and I disabled it. Put a r6 throttle tube witch just made the throttle more responsive. Even the beginner bikes today make more power than the some of the older ones. Bikes have come a long way. I don’t want to rely on tech to save my butt I’d rather rely on my rider skills because what happens when the text fails and you don’t have the skills good example buddy of mine had a BMW did all kinds of weird stuff for driver rage it’s ECM failed and still running though and he crashed his car because he went into a corner way too hot and the car didn’t get anything for it. What do you think? Do you want to rely on a computer? I don’t keep the horsepower down to what you can use and put in the ground and what you can handle that your skill level increases get a bigger bike when you buy speed how much speed do you need out of the street why I like my seven great bike it’s still got more power and you can use out here
Electronics are not ruining motorcicles. 1 - For experienced users, there are many options of raw motorcycles out there and disconnecting options. 2 - From the begginers and safety point of view, ABS and TC are a must. These two only electronic systems can ease motorcycling to a broather group of people. And you can learn all the basics without noticing these systems are there. If you notice them, either they have done their job or you are not a begginer anymore. I am a fan of "less is more" policy, so mostly agree with you, but the safety gains that these electronics systems offer can't be negated and are a priority....from my point of view.
The only two advances I don't like is ABS and fly-by-wire throttles. Never since 1992 have I "needed" ABS. The fly-by-wire throttles are terrible. You have to twist them 2-3x further to get the motor to even start to rev vs the instant engagement of a cable throttle. But for electronic cruise control it's a needed evil.
I started riding 52 years ago when I was 16, and sold my last bike (a 2004 Aprilia Tuono V twin -- 125 BHP, no ABS, no traction control) when I no longer had the reactions to control it. I am considering replacing it with a Royal Enfield. I'd rather lower the temperature than wear a flameproof suit to protect my self. I still love the edge that is the ability to control, the bike, and electronic controls take away that edge.
I think you summed up quite well my thoughts on rider aids in bikes. I'm 50 now, having ridden since I was 18, and my current 3 sports bikes range from 2003 to 2013. Fuel injection has been a welcome adoption for someone who rides every day...and my road skills have largely been honed through trial and error. I must be doing something right, as I haven't had an accident of any sort for well over 12 years. But, as luck is surely playing a part...I think safety aids a are beneficial for new riders.
First bike was a non ABS 17 SV650. Loved that bike rode on the street and did track days. Learned a lot about braking and throttle control. I have a 20' Ninja 1000SX for touring and I love the having the aids on it but I also own an 08 SV track bike
Gotta give it to Honda USA, for still selling you a (perhaps outdated) CBR600RR that only has ABS as optional. That’s why I bought it. Still the only actual SuperSport that is completely raw, cable throttle, no ABS (base), no TC, analogue display, cable clutch, best shifter in the business and lightweight etc. Hell, it doesn’t even have HID / LED headlights, still using the old reliable halogens. Call it crappy for what Honda of USA is charging for their CBR600RR, since it’s the same bike from 2013, but its entirely an analogue experience and the ROW CBR600RRs are a huge departure from that anyway.
Levers and cranks for ignition timing, mixture adjustment and valvetrain oiling!! That's the true analog experience! Nah... enough tech for reliable ease of use, not so much to have too much to go wrong. Proven EFI, CDI, and for the commuter but not the offroader, maybe ABS.
One of the few complaints I have with my 2009 Yamaha VMAX is that it doesn't have cruise control. It has ride-by-wire and ABS so it has all the hardware that it needs to implement cruise control. All that it needs is a few handlebar buttons and software. Its not a luxury for me because my right hand begins to go numb after about 30 minutes. Cruise control would alleviate that.
That's drive by wire, not lag. The electronics only let it go so fast when you twist the throttle. Like my chevy truck it will peel out when you don't want it to. And when you want it to go like hell it don't.
It's been 20 years since I had a completely analog machine, a Vulcan 750. I miss that feel of "It's all me and what input I deliver." I do really like selectable abs and traction control for normal day to day riding though. As I get older it's nice to not have to worry quite as much on a rain slicked road since I ride year round. Never had an issue with total analog staying upright but then again that old bike wasn't nearly as powerful either.
I'm no new motorcyclist, but i don't mind tech as a rider aid. However, i don't think these complicated systems will age well in the second hand market. If you think about how many old bikes are infamous for electrical gremlins (Ducati), surely all these extra electronic systems won't stand up very well in 10-20 years time. I'd hate to experience a data glitch, where due to some faulty cabling the ECU decides to send full power while you are leaning over in a corner. Or otherwise misinterpret IMU or throttle position data.
I’ve got a 2004 zx10r and I don’t think I’ll ever sell it. Cable throttle, efi, light as fuck very short wheelbase and makes great power. Nothing that’s come out since has given me the same feeling. Painigale v4s for example are incredible pieces of engineering but they’re so smooth and well refined that theres just no fear or the same level of excitement when you ride them
Those techs I feel could be coupled with A.I. and become a true learning tool giving feedback to the rider and disconecting or lessening their effects as the rider advance in skill, smoothing the learning curve and lessening the risks of experienceless squids to yeet themselves into oblivion. I am that old squid ^^. Could be interesting. Don't you think?
My first real motercycle crash was due to me not having ABS, I was on a down hill with my bike and I tried to stop but my wheels locked and my kneecaps now hate me some days
I wonder how well these systems cope with diesel spills etc when cornering? I haven't ridden for 20 years and my last bike had nothing in the way of rider aids, never had a problem just ride to my abilities and the road conditions ( all through winter which hones your skills and makes summer riding easy as pie )
It's not new tech, it's BS6/Euro5 emmisions standards. It can be fixed by getting a O2 sensor mod like the Fuel-X or RapidBike Easy.. or a more expensive piggy back ECU.. or if your bike supports uploading new EFI maps.
It'd be fun to see someone try to ride a brand spanking new Panigale V4 Primovelociemultiintegratigrandecorsa down the street WITHOUT all the rider aids. Personally I fall kind of in the same grayzone as Papa here - ABS, cruise control and TC - absolutely. But do I, Average Joe, really need to be able to tailor my riding modes to what phase the moon is in, what the USD-EUR exchange rate is and what time it was when the road crew laid down the last asphalt? Not really. And another turnoff for me is self-serviceability. I enjoy tinkering, checking valves and doing maintenance. Best of luck doing that with a new bike. Oh, and finally. Pay to download to get pre-installed features to work. Naah!
I think the optimum lies somewhere in the middle. ABS and traction control are a definite yes, they improve everyone's safety and can usually be turned off anyway for the purists among us. Ride-by-wire and different riding modes are okay but I wouldn't call them necessary, or universally beneficial. I would say most bikes don't need it, especially road bikes. On an ADV/Enduro that can go on road and off road, I think it makes sense though because of the vastly different surfaces and grip levels. But as for Android Bike etc., or cruise control, I don't think anyone really needs that. For the former, a phone holder is like 30 bucks and you'll be able to use your smartphone for navigation. For cuise control, I don't know, you can just control your throttle? I've never really understood the appeal in cars either, because if the argument is that by using cruise control, you as the driver have pay less attention to your driving, then my counter argument would be, what else should you be paying attention to if not driving? And I think the same applies to motorbikes, probably even more so because the risk of injury is much higher if you crash due to not paying attention. So in short, ABS and TC are good, everything else is kind of meh for me. The less of it, the better IMO, because then there's fewer things that can break.
Here a simple fact, you can be exceptionally good at riding an older bike and ride modern bike without any issues, but if you only know the assistance of rider aids, you will loop an older bike every time you try riding to you limits. No rider aid can make you a skilled rider.
ah yes, an amazingly obvious no scotsman fallacy. define “skilled rider” for me. is it someone who can ride your 30-yo analog shitbox? who made that definition up? you, just now? no, a skilled rider is one who can ride a particular bike skillfully, be it a new GS packed to the brim with doodads, or a 30-yo rickety gixxer with zero aids. just bc the GS rider can’t ride your 30-yo crap, he still rides his GS skillfully. hey you probably couldn’t ride a ‘60s cafe racer to save your life, does that make you a shit rider? it doesn’t. a “skilled rider” isn’t someone who can ride bikes of a particular era, it is someone who can ride any particular bike he chooses skillfully.
As others have said, more points of failure. More potential points of confusing feedback if anything's glitching. Save the tech for devices OTHER than vehicles.
I'm a purist other than ABS. Ride to the conditions and your skill I reckon to hone your abilities. I've been caught lacking many times and learn't from it. I'm sure that makes me a better rider. You only learn from mistakes, never from success. And I love the fact I can fix most issues with my bike rather than paying dealer prices.
My ABS and traction control have a thumb and 4 fingers, and the control unit is between my ears. Mechanical slide carbs and simple disc brakes are good enough for me.
Its not the bikes being ruined, its the riders. I'm all for tech improvements and evolution of the machines. But, it's up to the rider to buy/ride a machine that has as much or little tech/nannies as they prefer. If you never ride an older bike to learn how to truly command the machine, you are unlikely to appreciate the advantages of modern tech and won't develop skills to be able to ride proficiently without them. If the day comes that you have/need an older bike, there's a greater chance of failure from lack of skills. I still don't have any modern bikes and have no desire to change. I grew up on 90's bikes and am fully comfortable with zero electronics, outside of an ignition box.
All i wanted on my 1st road legal bike, was ABS, i locked up the wheels a fair amount of time on my dirt bikes, and i wanted that safety feature, but thats it, i didnt really want (or need) the other stuffs, i don't want imu, i dont want cornering abs, i don't want self adjustable suspension or radar-assisted braking system, i mean, what the heck its gonna be my contribution if the bike do almost everything by herself?
ABS and TCS are definitely recommended for all riders. Don't tell me you are an experienced rider and you don't need them because humans are incapable of acting faster than machines which can lead to serious injuries and damages to others (money). TCS comes with on/off ability and it becomes really helpful during rain. Time has come that at least the front ABS should be mandatory for all motorcycles just like cars. It saves lives. They are meant for emergency situations and they effectively do their jobs well. They make riding much easier and much safer.
My bike has no abs and a cable throttle, i couldn't imagine how wonky an electronic throttle would feel, and DEFINITELY wouldn't want abs messing with my brake pressure.
Abs does not engage if you use your breaks the right way at least a good abs doesn't. My abs engaged 5 times total in 2 different bikes (I also had 2 bikes before that without abs ). The times it kicked I was fucking around on slippery roads with terrible grip and wet .
I'm well past the age that I think I'll be the next Valentino Rossi, so things like fuel injection and ABS are a god send really. That said, more advanced nannies, such as laggy throttle, smartphone and touch screens everywhere are really a hassle, and just make motorcycles more expensive to buy, to own and to repair. The sweet spot for me is, as you said, ABS and FI, and manageable power, such as the Bandit 1250 with its 99 hp.
I disagree about bluetooth communications, they are super helpful and help with safety. I am able to warn riders ahead of me of danger or when I may be making a pass or lane shift. Give directions on the fly without worrying about someone not seeing me. Just one of the best inventions of the last 10 years.
If in a couple of years your IMU doesn't start to have spidey senses.....and you realize you are fucking things up before the IMU senses it, then the bike is taking you for a ride instead of riding a bike..... And there is no thrill greater than riding a fully mechanical, only mechanical, full control of the rider.....and it is scary and nice... Imagine a 200 hp bike that doesn't have abs or anything else and if you screw things up, you pay the price.... Then there is a fully nanny bike that goes nice, but it doesn't scare of feel special.... but more people can manage bad conditions, hence more friends on the road......
straight off the bat, I'm going to say it has ruined cars, and it will ruin Bikes too! The fact that you can't left foot brake without the computer going (Oh no two pedals are being depressed at once, have to throw a code and limit amount of power) when left foot braking is quite a handy way to achieve a manoeuvre with a level of grip no computer can generate!. in saying that... having the throttle smoothed out at very low inputs would be nice. but that could be done with an eccentric throttle linkage, giving greater inputs and less action in the low throttle and the opposite at high inputs,... ABS, yeah well, there's a reason it can be turned off on the rear wheel of an ADV. But I find it weird, when accidentally down shifting too quick or too far, and getting a little slip on the rear tyre, the pedal goes down as the ABS releases some pressure... I'm so used to the pedal pushing back. wheelie control? I don't have the skill or the power to be able to, but I would appreciate some help if it's going to give it to me! the greatest part of the tech... I filled up this avo and reset the trip A and avg fuel consumption, before heading home from work. Am I going to complain about 2.6L/100km? hell NO! (90mpg in US gallons and 108.6mpg in IMP gallons) Ohhh a heated seat! Yes, I have that, at the wrong times. it's kind of automatic and set to get hot when the weather and the engine are hot, It would be nice if it cooled down at these times instead, and got hot when the weather, engine, and I, are cold!
as a prominent car guy said, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is to drive a fast car slow. it's why an amateur racer I know said the most fun he had at the track was racing 50 cc pit bikes.
I don't think the safety tech makes new riders or just riders in general too reliant on them and disadvantaged. If you are someone that is constantly seeing the TC light flash on your dash or are constantly having the ABS system intervene when you are braking, then you shouldn't be riding at all if you aren't making any efforts to improve your riding. I have a bike with all those features and between it and my previous bike, which also had those features, I can count on one hand how much the TC has had to intervene. I feel there is no downside to these safety nets. Anyone that rides in a way that they become reliant on the systems and don't make any effort to improve their skills, doesn't deserve to be on a bike to begin with.
I am for tech in general, the importance of safety cannot be understated, but there is a point that it either just becomes unnecessary or even in your way. I think we are seeing that with modern cars for example where I found myself fighting against the hill hold assist feature sometimes. When well implemented is somewhat useful, but sometimes just becomes annoying. That applies with every rider/driver aid really. After all we are humans and we do make mistakes sometimes, and mitigating certain consequences from mistakes is specially welcome. EDIT: Just wanted to add, those speed limiters that are making their way to cars, I absolutely despise them, not that I drive fast, just let me drive my own car without it screaming at me that I am over the speed limit or refusing to go any faster.
I'll take ABS, but nothing beyond that. Maybe I'll change my mind when I have years and years of riding behind me and I just want some convivence, but I enjoy being in control of the bike and the experience that brings
I don't agree with the "rider aids allow riders not to train" argument. Accidents happen rarely, overall if one doesn't want to learn, they can avoid doing so and have a fair chance of not facing the consequences. In other words, to learn you need to want to. And possibly it's easier on a bike with rider aids as they allow you to recover from some situations; and since you are intentionally learning, you will figure out they activated and remember the threshold you should keep away from. If you reach it with no aids, you will crash and possibly hurt yourself.
I just got back into riding after an 18 year break. Things have changed greatly in that time. The safety gear, technology and distractions have taken away from the overall fun of riding. Yes, it is safer and we are digitally connected, but there is something missing from the sense of freedom and living dangerously. It is probably better this way. The craving to set out with the bike and what’s in my pockets will probably get the best of me at some point.
We should probably skip this stuff on the small bikes and force learners to ride them for a couple of years, unless they have copious professional training. The tech is actually really good stuff, but it is a whole load better if you understand about limits and smoothness before you have them.
There have been a number of studies in the railway industry on the effects of automation, technology, and 'driver aids'. In general the consensus is that too much of it actually detracts from the safe operation of the railway. For me there is no way I would remotely consider trusting either the bike or myself with adaptive cruise control. It's the same with TFT screens that naturally take your eyes away from the road and where you're putting the tires. Staying safe riding a bike is hard enough without importing risk/s. Stay safe whatever you ride.
if i can i choose not to have any electronics yes i have fallen yes it hurts but less problems i cant fix and pure skill helps with riding more than any e- nanny ever could
![อยู่คนเดียวกับเขา - ส้ม มารี (Zom Marie) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gq1cWAIQDLg/mqdefault.jpg)
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ABS, yay!
everything else, booo.
ill stick with my analog 2014 R6
My MT-09 is 1000% a completely different bike when all the fancy controls are turned off.
Can you turn all that shit off?
There is no bullshit bigger than eletronic throtle without the cruise control capacity
My only complaint with my 8R 🥲
Honda NC750x
You're taking the HUGE L that is inserting a computer between your wrist and that valve, and then don't even get to enjoy any potential touring benefits. Fuch that!
after an absence of 25 years, i bought a ducati S2R 800 Monster. Before riding it I took 4 hours of riding lessons in a driving school, I did not need that with a valid licence, but for the sake of safety and getting along with the controls again, it certainly was worth the money.
Yeh, an 800cc Ducati twin WILL bite you if you're not careful.
Abs is a good thing for many, but I seek out a bike with the least nanny tech possible. Less to go wrong, easier to fix and maintain, and provides the analog experience a bike should.
ABS is a no brainer imo. But the ability to switch it off on the rear is a must for me
I HATE ABS in cars, I can't brake or tap/pump the brakes because the pedal is going nuts.
@@nonyabusiness4151 there is no need to tap the pedal with ABS, its "going nuts" because its doing that for you faster than you ever could. I do agree though it does feel a bit unsettling
@Cthooligan I think the results are different too.
The Hayabusa lets you turn off everything but the ABS, by some stupid law.
Just hope that the fuse for the ABS motor doesn't blow out.
The one in the fuse box on the left hand side 😁
My newest bike has a balance control system. Two extra wheels. It is much more stable, although no longer leans in turns as bikes in the olden days used to.
Bikes still do. You don’t own a bike anymore.
Thats a quad buddy. Not a bike.
I've got the same thing for my bike! I even went the extra step to install a roll-cage as well as extra seats with windows for my passengers viewing pleasure!
@@samohle8091☠️☠️☠️
@@dr.pastrami5272 is jok
I believe that general rider aids keep motorcyclists safer. For example, you can buy a bike with ABS and still practice emergency braking. When done properly, the ABS will not activate. You can take it easy in corners, in the rain, and so on. When this is done, TC will not activate. A quickshifter is less complicated to use. You can, however, shift normally even on a bike with a quickshifter. A DCT removes the need to shift manually at all, thus making the ride easier. I don't like the mentality that says real bikes don't have rider aids. Yes, if you can only ride a DCT bike, it severely limits the bikes you can ride. Well, some people don't want to ride a ton of different bikes. I've never been in an emergency situation in which I had to ride someone else's bike. So a person does not "need" to learn to ride a manual bike. I guess the bottomline is, motorcycles' popularity is reducing (at least in the US). Making bikes easier to ride and safer will likely attract a younger audience who doesn't care about motorcycle tradition.
I turned my Ducati Streetfighter V4S to race mode the day i bought it 3 years ago, and have never changed modes ever since. I also turned off wheelie control and set the ABS and TC to the minimal settings. I prefer to modulate the inputs, rather than relying on the electronic nannies.
this lad lmaoo
I ride a Yamaha R6 2009, so 100% manual control of those 4 rev-up cylinders 👍
I binned my 2010 fz1 abs when the abs pump failed and it became beyond economic to repair. I'm now back on an sv1000 and am loving it. No emissions bollocks and no unnecessary tech. Here in the UK any fault code light is an mot inspection fail.
I restore bikes from the 70's and 80's and one thing has become apparent - it's easier to find parts for a 74 CB550 than it is for my 87 FZR1000. The FZR has a Gen 1 TCI and I lay awake at night thinking what the hell I would do if the ignition module failed. There's nothing to replace it. With today's purpose-built planned obsolescence, I'm guessing we'll have a decade or two of motorcycles that will be considered disposable and unrepairable in 10 to 15 years when the shiny new replacement tech comes along. I can see component manufacturers abandoning support for hardware or software long before the engines or drivetrains fail.
3D printing. I would 3D scan that Part. Or any limited part. Do my own 3% improvements get it 3d printed in A metal.Could even sell it. Send orders directly to manufacture and take profit. All possible.
@@AntD215 I'm talking about things like sensors, servos and software, not small parts. We're already seeing cars being left for dead when they depreciate and you find that your $500 car needs a $700 part.
Ken. The Harley after market world is already addressing stuff like this by producing carb kits to replace evo fuel injection systems and the same with points ignitions to replace electronic boxes that die. Problems though with legislators I know. Maybe we will be riding (or not, see my post a few back) on bikes that will get re cycled totally every 10 years or so. Look at the Japanese market where second hand bikes and cars are nearly priced off the roads by fees and licensing costs. But the market keeps supplying what we buy. What are we telling them?
I've been riding every year all year long for almost 50 years. I am glad that I was able to hone my skills, such as emergency braking, on bikes without electronic rider aids. I currently own a 1966 Norton Atlas (my first bike) and a 2003 Yamaha FZ1, both of which are very mechanical and easy to work on. I recently bought a 2021 Yamaha MT-10 which does have anti-lock brakes, traction control, cruise control, etc. but no 6-axis IMU. Since I'm in my mid-70s, I figured I get a bike with a few safety features as I know my reaction time, etc., ain't what it used to be. The MT-10 has become my "go to" bike, but I still get a thrill from riding the Atlas (kick-start only) and the FZ1 as well. Every bike has its own character.
Yes it's all about choice, I'm older too and though I have the skills and experience to ride with zero aids I can deffo see the advantages of the systems emergencies ...
I wonder how well these systems cope with diesel spills etc when cornering?
I haven't ridden for 20 years and my last bike had nothing in the way of rider aids, never had a problem just ride to my abilities and the road conditions ( all through winter which hones your skills and makes summer riding easy as pie )
Perfect episode. I'm an old-school guy, a purist. I got caught in a rain storm on a naked bike the other day. As I cornered onto the highway, the rear tire slipped. Before my brain realized what, happened my hand had already chopped the throttle. But I can see how rider aids help. I only own 2 motorcycles, neither have rider aids. It has definitely made me a better rider.
To each their own.
I think what we need are more people teaching people how to ride with, or without, all of those features.
In Texas, we knew a rider who died while recklessly riding their old carbureted HD springer. While stationed at Ft. Carson, one of my squadmates wrecked his modern R6, by also riding recklessly.
Don't let others tell you what to ride. You find a bike you like, and you ride it. But DO listen to those who tell you how to ride responsibly. That's what we really need.
This vid describes why i love my Royal enfield scram 411. Its simple and fun. When i want more power i hop on my SCL500. I dont need alot of power i want a simple bike i can master and become connected to (one with the bike)
I've been riding street bikes since I was 17, I'm 66 now. All this nanny tech has not improved the riding experience. I have no use for it at all. It just gets in the way, makes me have to fart around with things I never had to deal with before. Don't like any of this crap on my truck either. If I want something to do something , I'll push the button, don't do it for me - your fucking up my shit.
My ‘18 SV650 doesn’t even have ABS (I wish it did, but it was a screaming deal but I digress). When I move up to a XRS 900 or something, I will be glad it has rider aids as long as you can turn them off. That’s the beauty. Don’t want to use a quick shifter that day? Turn it off. I know only some bikes offer that versatility, but I am fine with it as long as it’s not forced on you.
Yammmmms, do a video on the new 675SRR from cfmoto. Looks amazing
He hates CFM
I am a software developer and glad I don't have any digital stuff on my 30y old bike. But I understand using modern tech for safety reasons. Thing is, some systems are implemented only because they CAN be done now.
'CAN'... such a great and quite appropriate play on words!😅
Love your content bro, always well informed and witty. Much respect from the UK.
In some ways it definitely is. Riders become complacent by relying on the upgrades to correct rider mistakes and the same thing happens in cars and other vehicles. Personally, I think people should learn how to ride without the nanny items proficiently so they can truly understand how those items work and know the ultimate limits of the vehicle without them for when those items either fail or can't react fast enough.
Honestly. The amount of people I see say "speed wobbles just happen at random" is insane. Not saying dampers are a waste of money but you really don't *need* one.
@@Next2Null When I first started riding I almost felt obligated to buy things like less sensitive throttle tubes and other things to make riding easier, rather than just learning. I'm glad I didn't have money to waste on those things and that my first bike had no rider modes or aids (including quickshifter or ABS) and forced me to learn the basics. I love all the tech packages now that I know how to ride, but I feel it can actually hinder newer riders if taken for granted.
@@Cthooligan It's like automatic transmission in a way, isn't it? If you're only ever going to ride DCT's or CVT's you can go that route. But if you ever have to manage on a manual without prior experience: good luck, that'll take some getting used to and you'll probably stall a few times in awkward moments. Until the dystopian day arrives where all cars and bikes are electric (or similar) and thus automatic, I'd rather learn how to use both ;p
I‘m a hobby rider and except for touring I always ride in excellent weather conditions. So I can pretty much do without all electronics. My 20 year old Tuono has nothing not even ABS. Works just fine.
My 2024 Africa Twin has every single one of those gizmos that you mentioned, plus DCT.
Wouldn't give 'em up for anything. I can turn them on or off, adjust them, make them work for me to make the ride more fun AND safer.
1:16 that's Apache 180 , I still have that bike
My 750 has no almost no tech and i love her. Shoutout to Suzuki for not overcomplicating ish
I learned to ride on a KLR650 and have ridden it for about the last 20 years. It has none of those acronyms. I have been through a lot and learned a lot. I do feel that my riding skill and those more subtle elements like braking and throttle control were developed because I had to learn them or else. Now, I am looking for a bike to tour with my wife two-up and I am really liking the idea of having a bike with all the bells and whistles because...well, they may very well help us stay safe. I am a mature rider with a mature riding outlook. With these modern tools, I hope to extend my riding 'career' when I had thought seriously about dismounting for good. So, I am glad to have learned on a basic machine but I am looking forward to the next phase that will be aided by technology.
Id consider myself a pretty decent rider. Certainly not the best, but also never dumped a bike. That being said I bought a 2023 ZH2 and boy was i thrilled when wheelie control kicked in when i hit a bump with the throttle pinned in second gear. ABS and WC are very benificial in my opinion
i recently bough a new bike with some features i thought were a good idea, but in practice there's only two i am that bothered about. ABS is one, and traction control for anti-wheelie is another, and maybe even then i could do without it. Riding modes, settings for this and that are just bells and whistles for marketing really, my old bike didn't have these and i got on fine, in fact too many options can lead you to worry if you are using the right one. better to learn to use what you have properly imho, and of course it's less expensive when something goes wrong lol. GL
Just a little over a week now with my bike (new rider/Honda Rebel 300), and although on paper the bike is very tame it’s still enough for me as a beginner rider ti get myself into some trouble if I’m not careful. I have the version without ABS so it’s just straight raw no tech safety features. I actually to appreciate it because like you mentioned it is forcing me to be more mindful when coming into a stop or going into corners. For a first bike like this I enjoy it so I can learn good habits now as I’m learning that way when I upgrade to a more powerful bike with tech I should have built up enough understanding and knowledge of good habits while riding. Love the vids ✊🏽
My 312 cc bike Apache RTR 310 have cornering abs, cornering tc, cornering cruise control(lowers speed according to angle), bidirectional quickshifter, ventelated seats heating and cooling same as car seats wheelie control, stopie control, launch control, full colored tft display, smart headlights, on board navigation, call and music control, gopro control 😂😂
That's tvs do , I've RTR 180 DUAL ABS .
And…? What’s the point?
I have had only 2 bikes with rather low cc (110 and 250) the first one without any computer assisted systems and the second one with only fuel injection and abs, love them both.
As a Canadian..
I look at this like I look at hockey sticks.
Sticks are getting better, players are shooting faster…. However the new sticks break a lot more often..
I have always preferred cars with cable throttle and minimal tech. Which is part of why I went with the MT-07. Cable throttle, no traction control, or wheelie control. Just pure riding fun, with the safety net of ABS just in case.
When I restarted riding at an older age, I did it on a 2010 Triumph Street triple 675, cable trotthle control, no rider modes, no traction control, no ABS, and honestly, that bike doesn't need it. The engine is so lineair, but still revs really high, that your polscontrol just does the job. You can ride it smooth or you can be a hooligan, but it never surprised me, even if I was starting after over 20 years no riding. It was fun doing stoppies and other stupid things, without electronics intervening. These days I ride a 2016 Triumph Tiger Sport 1050 (yes the old speed triple engine). It has ride by wire, rider modes , traction control , ABS , heated grips, cruise control .... still an analogue revcounter ( same as my street triple). I like some features, but the street triple was the more funny bike.
Oh, and well done with the video. There was a time, I was not a fan of the channel, but honnestly, the content and the way of presenting it is getting better and better, somehow more mature, without being dull and still that funny absurd humour. thank you
Since I'm old and old school I like both. I got my S1000rr for all the tech stuff. Still have my 2004 R1, I'll never sell. Still love that bike.
When looking to buy a used cruiser, I'd be lucky to find a bike that has just ABS lol
Totally agree, and as i use my bikes mainly for the 20 000 miles per year all year all weather rush hour lane filtering around Brussels and Antwerp, i love it that the rider aids free brainroom for road strategy, as i can use all the help i can get. (S1000XR and K1300GT)
One of the things I like about my ninja 650 is that it does feel raw because aside from TC (which never kicks in anyway on such a small bike) there isn't any tech. It does feel a bit more raw than say a GSX8R that I test rode a few months ago
I love my ABS and TC. Im driving mostly normal roads and mountain twisties. I sometimes have to believe that there is nothing on the road and i dont want my expensive new bike to crash cause i feel not man enough when riding with electronic helpers
I don't even my motor licence yet but I do have two bikes: a 1981 Moto Guzzi V50C and a 1983/84 Honda CM400T. Both are restauration projects but they'll be my first motorcycles to ride. Not that I'm a purist but I want to get a real feel for riding before getting something more advanced for more long-distance journey's.
Also, these bikes are only a few years younger than I am so it wouldn't feel right to skip them in my journey of mastering the roads on two wheels :D
I've ridden motorcycles for decades and I have only ever experienced the analogue feel, which I would argue is the best way to ride.
I'm glad I learned to ride motorcycles without any aids a/o enhancements, as it enabled me to gain a healthy, potentially few life-saving skills and habits (e.g. progressive braking, safe cornering, environment perception, etc..). However, on a few occasions, I would have welcomed ABS a/o TCS, just for the comfort, e.g. when I had to, a couple fo times, wade through traffic during heavy rain (as I was not so sure about others' perception, driving & braking skills), or when I had to get back from the top of mountain pass (Grossglockner in 2011, Turracher in 2017) in rain and mist and quite the low temperature..
The fun part is, that as I've been riding cruisers and, to a much lesser extent, choppers excusively, I have never felt a need for cruise control or built in navigation or stereo system to make the journey pass more swiftly.. Well, as of luck, I'm a Suzuki rider 😀
I think part of the experience is to not have a set goal for a ride (kind of an "home to place A then place B then back home in x amount of days" approach - I tried it once, midway through I abandoned it), but just enjoy it as-is. Frankly, my best trips were and still are those, when I just ride out and when the evening draws closer, I find some ad-hoc place to lay my head - and believe it or not, for the last 15 years, it worked perfectly every time.
LbnL on the very subject of riding.. Allow me to (hopefully) quote a great dialogue from Twin Peaks (season 2, episode 6):
Evelyn Marsh: - "Are you that way, James? Are you that way about your bike?"
James Hurley: - "I guess I'm not so interested in how my bike looks as I am where it can take me."
Evelyn Marsh: - "Where do you wanna go?"
James Hurley: - "It's not really a place.. It's a feeling."
Ride hard & ride safe 🙂
I love my r7 the only rider aid is abs and I disabled it.
Put a r6 throttle tube witch just made the throttle more responsive. Even the beginner bikes today make more power than the some of the older ones. Bikes have come a long way. I don’t want to rely on tech to save my butt I’d rather rely on my rider skills because what happens when the text fails and you don’t have the skills good example buddy of mine had a BMW did all kinds of weird stuff for driver rage it’s ECM failed and still running though and he crashed his car because he went into a corner way too hot and the car didn’t get anything for it. What do you think? Do you want to rely on a computer? I don’t keep the horsepower down to what you can use and put in the ground and what you can handle that your skill level increases get a bigger bike when you buy speed how much speed do you need out of the street why I like my seven great bike it’s still got more power and you can use out here
Electronics are not ruining motorcicles.
1 - For experienced users, there are many options of raw motorcycles out there and disconnecting options.
2 - From the begginers and safety point of view, ABS and TC are a must. These two only electronic systems can ease motorcycling to a broather group of people. And you can learn all the basics without noticing these systems are there. If you notice them, either they have done their job or you are not a begginer anymore.
I am a fan of "less is more" policy, so mostly agree with you, but the safety gains that these electronics systems offer can't be negated and are a priority....from my point of view.
The only two advances I don't like is ABS and fly-by-wire throttles. Never since 1992 have I "needed" ABS. The fly-by-wire throttles are terrible. You have to twist them 2-3x further to get the motor to even start to rev vs the instant engagement of a cable throttle. But for electronic cruise control it's a needed evil.
My Rebel 500 has only ABS.
It doesn`t even have a tachometer.
I love it.
I started riding 52 years ago when I was 16, and sold my last bike (a 2004 Aprilia Tuono V twin -- 125 BHP, no ABS, no traction control) when I no longer had the reactions to control it. I am considering replacing it with a Royal Enfield. I'd rather lower the temperature than wear a flameproof suit to protect my self. I still love the edge that is the ability to control, the bike, and electronic controls take away that edge.
As a carb chad this is not my problem.
🚬😎...Agreed, (Gasoline & Computer Chips shouldn't mix) 🙄😒.
13:40 "there is value in being uncomfortable sometimes" That's my takeaway from the whole video.
I think you summed up quite well my thoughts on rider aids in bikes. I'm 50 now, having ridden since I was 18, and my current 3 sports bikes range from 2003 to 2013. Fuel injection has been a welcome adoption for someone who rides every day...and my road skills have largely been honed through trial and error. I must be doing something right, as I haven't had an accident of any sort for well over 12 years. But, as luck is surely playing a part...I think safety aids a are beneficial for new riders.
First bike was a non ABS 17 SV650. Loved that bike rode on the street and did track days. Learned a lot about braking and throttle control. I have a 20' Ninja 1000SX for touring and I love the having the aids on it but I also own an 08 SV track bike
Gotta give it to Honda USA, for still selling you a (perhaps outdated) CBR600RR that only has ABS as optional. That’s why I bought it. Still the only actual SuperSport that is completely raw, cable throttle, no ABS (base), no TC, analogue display, cable clutch, best shifter in the business and lightweight etc. Hell, it doesn’t even have HID / LED headlights, still using the old reliable halogens. Call it crappy for what Honda of USA is charging for their CBR600RR, since it’s the same bike from 2013, but its entirely an analogue experience and the ROW CBR600RRs are a huge departure from that anyway.
Levers and cranks for ignition timing, mixture adjustment and valvetrain oiling!! That's the true analog experience! Nah... enough tech for reliable ease of use, not so much to have too much to go wrong. Proven EFI, CDI, and for the commuter but not the offroader, maybe ABS.
You darn young kids with your hydraulic brakes and your pneumatic tires. 8:56
One of the few complaints I have with my 2009 Yamaha VMAX is that it doesn't have cruise control. It has ride-by-wire and ABS so it has all the hardware that it needs to implement cruise control. All that it needs is a few handlebar buttons and software. Its not a luxury for me because my right hand begins to go numb after about 30 minutes. Cruise control would alleviate that.
That's drive by wire, not lag. The electronics only let it go so fast when you twist the throttle. Like my chevy truck it will peel out when you don't want it to. And when you want it to go like hell it don't.
It's been 20 years since I had a completely analog machine, a Vulcan 750. I miss that feel of "It's all me and what input I deliver." I do really like selectable abs and traction control for normal day to day riding though. As I get older it's nice to not have to worry quite as much on a rain slicked road since I ride year round. Never had an issue with total analog staying upright but then again that old bike wasn't nearly as powerful either.
I'm no new motorcyclist, but i don't mind tech as a rider aid. However, i don't think these complicated systems will age well in the second hand market. If you think about how many old bikes are infamous for electrical gremlins (Ducati), surely all these extra electronic systems won't stand up very well in 10-20 years time. I'd hate to experience a data glitch, where due to some faulty cabling the ECU decides to send full power while you are leaning over in a corner. Or otherwise misinterpret IMU or throttle position data.
5:15 tbf to Suzuki, Honda did the same thing with the Transalp.
I’ve got a 2004 zx10r and I don’t think I’ll ever sell it. Cable throttle, efi, light as fuck very short wheelbase and makes great power. Nothing that’s come out since has given me the same feeling. Painigale v4s for example are incredible pieces of engineering but they’re so smooth and well refined that theres just no fear or the same level of excitement when you ride them
Those techs I feel could be coupled with A.I. and become a true learning tool giving feedback to the rider and disconecting or lessening their effects as the rider advance in skill, smoothing the learning curve and lessening the risks of experienceless squids to yeet themselves into oblivion. I am that old squid ^^. Could be interesting. Don't you think?
My first real motercycle crash was due to me not having ABS, I was on a down hill with my bike and I tried to stop but my wheels locked and my kneecaps now hate me some days
I wonder how well these systems cope with diesel spills etc when cornering?
I haven't ridden for 20 years and my last bike had nothing in the way of rider aids, never had a problem just ride to my abilities and the road conditions ( all through winter which hones your skills and makes summer riding easy as pie )
ABS is the most I desire for my bike, don't really feel like I need much else except for the ability to toggle ABS
It's not new tech, it's BS6/Euro5 emmisions standards. It can be fixed by getting a O2 sensor mod like the Fuel-X or RapidBike Easy.. or a more expensive piggy back ECU.. or if your bike supports uploading new EFI maps.
All I want is ABS. I'm not bothered about everything else unless I can have cruise control as well.
I love the flyby wire ont he 765 RS 2024, alot smoother than my benelli 125cc thing, made it a lot easier to ride
It'd be fun to see someone try to ride a brand spanking new Panigale V4 Primovelociemultiintegratigrandecorsa down the street WITHOUT all the rider aids. Personally I fall kind of in the same grayzone as Papa here - ABS, cruise control and TC - absolutely. But do I, Average Joe, really need to be able to tailor my riding modes to what phase the moon is in, what the USD-EUR exchange rate is and what time it was when the road crew laid down the last asphalt? Not really. And another turnoff for me is self-serviceability. I enjoy tinkering, checking valves and doing maintenance. Best of luck doing that with a new bike. Oh, and finally. Pay to download to get pre-installed features to work. Naah!
The chicke strips on that s1000 were absolute sacrilage.
In theory, CV carbs have lag, but I never had any issue, except with the crap DellOrto pumping carbs. I love the Bing, Mikuni, and Keihin CV carbs.
I think the optimum lies somewhere in the middle. ABS and traction control are a definite yes, they improve everyone's safety and can usually be turned off anyway for the purists among us. Ride-by-wire and different riding modes are okay but I wouldn't call them necessary, or universally beneficial. I would say most bikes don't need it, especially road bikes. On an ADV/Enduro that can go on road and off road, I think it makes sense though because of the vastly different surfaces and grip levels.
But as for Android Bike etc., or cruise control, I don't think anyone really needs that. For the former, a phone holder is like 30 bucks and you'll be able to use your smartphone for navigation. For cuise control, I don't know, you can just control your throttle? I've never really understood the appeal in cars either, because if the argument is that by using cruise control, you as the driver have pay less attention to your driving, then my counter argument would be, what else should you be paying attention to if not driving? And I think the same applies to motorbikes, probably even more so because the risk of injury is much higher if you crash due to not paying attention.
So in short, ABS and TC are good, everything else is kind of meh for me. The less of it, the better IMO, because then there's fewer things that can break.
Here a simple fact, you can be exceptionally good at riding an older bike and ride modern bike without any issues, but if you only know the assistance of rider aids, you will loop an older bike every time you try riding to you limits.
No rider aid can make you a skilled rider.
ah yes, an amazingly obvious no scotsman fallacy.
define “skilled rider” for me. is it someone who can ride your 30-yo analog shitbox? who made that definition up? you, just now?
no, a skilled rider is one who can ride a particular bike skillfully, be it a new GS packed to the brim with doodads, or a 30-yo rickety gixxer with zero aids. just bc the GS rider can’t ride your 30-yo crap, he still rides his GS skillfully.
hey you probably couldn’t ride a ‘60s cafe racer to save your life, does that make you a shit rider? it doesn’t. a “skilled rider” isn’t someone who can ride bikes of a particular era, it is someone who can ride any particular bike he chooses skillfully.
The reason all bines have abs now are bc in europe all bikes are required to have abs since I think 2016.
As others have said, more points of failure. More potential points of confusing feedback if anything's glitching. Save the tech for devices OTHER than vehicles.
I'm a purist other than ABS. Ride to the conditions and your skill I reckon to hone your abilities. I've been caught lacking many times and learn't from it. I'm sure that makes me a better rider. You only learn from mistakes, never from success. And I love the fact I can fix most issues with my bike rather than paying dealer prices.
Almost killed myself way too many times on first two bikes back in the 90's
My ABS and traction control have a thumb and 4 fingers, and the control unit is between my ears. Mechanical slide carbs and simple disc brakes are good enough for me.
Its not the bikes being ruined, its the riders.
I'm all for tech improvements and evolution of the machines. But, it's up to the rider to buy/ride a machine that has as much or little tech/nannies as they prefer. If you never ride an older bike to learn how to truly command the machine, you are unlikely to appreciate the advantages of modern tech and won't develop skills to be able to ride proficiently without them. If the day comes that you have/need an older bike, there's a greater chance of failure from lack of skills. I still don't have any modern bikes and have no desire to change. I grew up on 90's bikes and am fully comfortable with zero electronics, outside of an ignition box.
All i wanted on my 1st road legal bike, was ABS, i locked up the wheels a fair amount of time on my dirt bikes, and i wanted that safety feature, but thats it, i didnt really want (or need) the other stuffs, i don't want imu, i dont want cornering abs, i don't want self adjustable suspension or radar-assisted braking system, i mean, what the heck its gonna be my contribution if the bike do almost everything by herself?
ABS and TCS are definitely recommended for all riders. Don't tell me you are an experienced rider and you don't need them because humans are incapable of acting faster than machines which can lead to serious injuries and damages to others (money). TCS comes with on/off ability and it becomes really helpful during rain. Time has come that at least the front ABS should be mandatory for all motorcycles just like cars. It saves lives. They are meant for emergency situations and they effectively do their jobs well. They make riding much easier and much safer.
Going from the Z900 RS, with nothing but ABS, to the MT-09, I've almost instantly begun to rely on the tech.
Uggh.
My bike has no abs and a cable throttle, i couldn't imagine how wonky an electronic throttle would feel, and DEFINITELY wouldn't want abs messing with my brake pressure.
Abs does not engage if you use your breaks the right way at least a good abs doesn't. My abs engaged 5 times total in 2 different bikes (I also had 2 bikes before that without abs ). The times it kicked I was fucking around on slippery roads with terrible grip and wet .
I'm well past the age that I think I'll be the next Valentino Rossi, so things like fuel injection and ABS are a god send really. That said, more advanced nannies, such as laggy throttle, smartphone and touch screens everywhere are really a hassle, and just make motorcycles more expensive to buy, to own and to repair. The sweet spot for me is, as you said, ABS and FI, and manageable power, such as the Bandit 1250 with its 99 hp.
I disagree about bluetooth communications, they are super helpful and help with safety. I am able to warn riders ahead of me of danger or when I may be making a pass or lane shift. Give directions on the fly without worrying about someone not seeing me. Just one of the best inventions of the last 10 years.
My 2013 street tripple no abs or tcs with cable throttle 👊✊️ = ❤
TC & ABS are nice to have, but I recently learnt that I can also live without them.
Keep watching yammie Nooooooob!
If in a couple of years your IMU doesn't start to have spidey senses.....and you realize you are fucking things up before the IMU senses it, then the bike is taking you for a ride instead of riding a bike.....
And there is no thrill greater than riding a fully mechanical, only mechanical, full control of the rider.....and it is scary and nice... Imagine a 200 hp bike that doesn't have abs or anything else and if you screw things up, you pay the price....
Then there is a fully nanny bike that goes nice, but it doesn't scare of feel special.... but more people can manage bad conditions, hence more friends on the road......
straight off the bat, I'm going to say it has ruined cars, and it will ruin Bikes too! The fact that you can't left foot brake without the computer going (Oh no two pedals are being depressed at once, have to throw a code and limit amount of power) when left foot braking is quite a handy way to achieve a manoeuvre with a level of grip no computer can generate!.
in saying that... having the throttle smoothed out at very low inputs would be nice. but that could be done with an eccentric throttle linkage, giving greater inputs and less action in the low throttle and the opposite at high inputs,...
ABS, yeah well, there's a reason it can be turned off on the rear wheel of an ADV. But I find it weird, when accidentally down shifting too quick or too far, and getting a little slip on the rear tyre, the pedal goes down as the ABS releases some pressure... I'm so used to the pedal pushing back.
wheelie control? I don't have the skill or the power to be able to, but I would appreciate some help if it's going to give it to me!
the greatest part of the tech... I filled up this avo and reset the trip A and avg fuel consumption, before heading home from work. Am I going to complain about 2.6L/100km? hell NO! (90mpg in US gallons and 108.6mpg in IMP gallons)
Ohhh a heated seat! Yes, I have that, at the wrong times. it's kind of automatic and set to get hot when the weather and the engine are hot, It would be nice if it cooled down at these times instead, and got hot when the weather, engine, and I, are cold!
Best safety feature is quality suspension. Manufacturers need to do a better job in that regard.
as a prominent car guy said, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is to drive a fast car slow. it's why an amateur racer I know said the most fun he had at the track was racing 50 cc pit bikes.
I don't think the safety tech makes new riders or just riders in general too reliant on them and disadvantaged. If you are someone that is constantly seeing the TC light flash on your dash or are constantly having the ABS system intervene when you are braking, then you shouldn't be riding at all if you aren't making any efforts to improve your riding. I have a bike with all those features and between it and my previous bike, which also had those features, I can count on one hand how much the TC has had to intervene.
I feel there is no downside to these safety nets. Anyone that rides in a way that they become reliant on the systems and don't make any effort to improve their skills, doesn't deserve to be on a bike to begin with.
I am for tech in general, the importance of safety cannot be understated, but there is a point that it either just becomes unnecessary or even in your way. I think we are seeing that with modern cars for example where I found myself fighting against the hill hold assist feature sometimes. When well implemented is somewhat useful, but sometimes just becomes annoying. That applies with every rider/driver aid really.
After all we are humans and we do make mistakes sometimes, and mitigating certain consequences from mistakes is specially welcome.
EDIT: Just wanted to add, those speed limiters that are making their way to cars, I absolutely despise them, not that I drive fast, just let me drive my own car without it screaming at me that I am over the speed limit or refusing to go any faster.
I'll take ABS, but nothing beyond that. Maybe I'll change my mind when I have years and years of riding behind me and I just want some convivence, but I enjoy being in control of the bike and the experience that brings
I don't agree with the "rider aids allow riders not to train" argument. Accidents happen rarely, overall if one doesn't want to learn, they can avoid doing so and have a fair chance of not facing the consequences. In other words, to learn you need to want to. And possibly it's easier on a bike with rider aids as they allow you to recover from some situations; and since you are intentionally learning, you will figure out they activated and remember the threshold you should keep away from. If you reach it with no aids, you will crash and possibly hurt yourself.
Abs + slipper clutch and that's it, whether it be 40hp or 220hp
I just got back into riding after an 18 year break. Things have changed greatly in that time. The safety gear, technology and distractions have taken away from the overall fun of riding. Yes, it is safer and we are digitally connected, but there is something missing from the sense of freedom and living dangerously. It is probably better this way. The craving to set out with the bike and what’s in my pockets will probably get the best of me at some point.
Maybe they should make a special " analog" setting that gives you the 2000 feel.
No throttle lag if it's cable driven 😉
We should probably skip this stuff on the small bikes and force learners to ride them for a couple of years, unless they have copious professional training. The tech is actually really good stuff, but it is a whole load better if you understand about limits and smoothness before you have them.
There have been a number of studies in the railway industry on the effects of automation, technology, and 'driver aids'. In general the consensus is that too much of it actually detracts from the safe operation of the railway.
For me there is no way I would remotely consider trusting either the bike or myself with adaptive cruise control. It's the same with TFT screens that naturally take your eyes away from the road and where you're putting the tires. Staying safe riding a bike is hard enough without importing risk/s.
Stay safe whatever you ride.
if i can i choose not to have any electronics yes i have fallen yes it hurts but less problems i cant fix and pure skill helps with riding more than any e- nanny ever could