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The Canadian motorcycle is back and brilliant! But...
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Directed and Edited by Aneesh Shivanekar
Hilarious that they had to shuttle the group to the outdoors for a ride demo. Truly a trailer adventure bike.
Again highlight the practicality of electric MX bike.
@@RiderP411 so practical that you will be forced to adventire after 115kmS
subrarshi !!!
Nah, just made for different markets. Atlantic Canada 115Km is plenty to get lost in the woods. Same with Alberta.
Biggest thing they need to do is offer a battery saddlebag (or heck, a solar panel that folds up for those of y'all going -way- out for weeks on end) or find a way to allow DC fast charging in under 20 minutes and this would be golden for fooling around on.
@@ktkace
Subrarshi?
What language is that?
@@ulogy that's not an adventure bike, that's a trail bike. Both have the same range, although not diminished towards end of charge. They should have made a trail/mx bike, but the cost would be too high compared to the Stark.
never skip a FortNine upload
Oh look at that, its FortNine casually dropping another masterpiece of moto-journalism with better production value and writing than most Netflix originals.
@@dynamo1796I dunno, it's like a copy of Top Gear but worse.
Except maaaybe some of the Justin Bieber shorts😜
I never skip a Ryan F9 upload
Hell yeah
I've never encountered a channel that blends poetry and technicality so seamlessly in a single review.
ive never encountered a comment that so elegantly describes a video!
And art
wot they said 😉@@mwng5186
I literally wrote that down:
I am hesitant to conclude because I am afraid of either answer. - Ryan F9
Closest thing to motorcycle top gear (og crew)
I love the poetry, the scripting, the cinematography, it's all incredible. But my favourite part is how F9 isn't afraid to talk both pros and cons bluntly (but always eloquently), and lets the viewer think for themselves without spoon feeding a blindingly obvious conclusion.
I read a couple of reviews on these two bikes. Neither one went into the main reasons for the swingarm and motor being combined. Infact they never mentioned that it was a combination. All they seemed to do was downplay it as to only be an enclosed drive. Thanks Ryan for going into the real reasons.
Can't wait to buy a clapped out one in 5-10 years
You'll probably be able to pick one up for free but have to replace all the batteries, which won't be cheap.
@@TulaneAve but.. but.. it would be cheaper than a new one.. and it's already clapped out!
@@TulaneAve Cheaper than fixing up a busted up gas powered motorcycle that has a shot clutch, engine, chain, and all the other mechanical issues you won't know about until you're broken down on the side of the road.
@@mgpBLARG So just like a gas powered motorcycle, except with the electric bike you'll only need to change the battery and the labor won't cost you an arm and a leg.
@@Waldo1122You get it. God bless you.
Ryan makes it fun to listen to something about something you really don't care that much about.
Seriously. I couldn’t possibly give a single damn less about EV bikes, but I watched this whole entire thing. He’s a Master at his craft.
See a lot of people defending this bike as a "good commuter option"... It's $18k! You can get a Surron and a SV650 for that price probably.
You could get every single bike in f9’s “great used bikes” video for the cost of this one. Probably that electric trials bike too.
The best commuter options will always be scooters IMO, they have so much internal and external storage option
You can get a Super Tenere or Africa Twin for $18k at least in USD. Even Harley Davidson's 1200cc Pan America is like $20k.
The more they try to force this junk on us the more I hate it.
I already think a surron is overprice for what it is...
EV fatique, I feel like every year we're asked to care about five new electric motorcycles are legally bound to define our future and every year half of them go bankrupt, the other half sells so few that manufacturers try to hide their existence behind the next promise.
That is sooooo amazing said, absolute nailed it.
Where else can you get a motorcycle review AND an honors physics lesson. I love this channel, so well done, every time.
Electric adventure motorcycles are really cool concepts but the fact that you can’t bring a extra tank of gas with you will always be a problem
In the future you'll be able to bring a spare battery ,likely. Battery tech is advancing at an exponential rate. I'll give it a good 10 years.
Edit: there's no need to argue with me, I'm not the one working in R&D for this and investing billions. Right or wrong, we'll see what happens in 10 years. Now take a deep breath and enjoy your ICE bike while you can lol.
@@2WheelsGood.01Evidence of battery tech advancing please. It's been "advancing" for the last 10 years supposedly, but energy density has not become "exponentially" better.
@@2WheelsGood.01 Yeah, not going to happen, batteries are not significantly better than what they were 10 years ago. Its a matter of chemistry and physics. Go study those and you will learn its not going to happen.
@@spartanx169xtells someone to do their own research while simultaneously shows he hasn't done any research 🤣
Maybe not, but you can bring solar panels or mini generators
That’s 115km range in ideal conditions…once the temp drops, it would likely get you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
Couple of steep inclines and it's game over.
You won't even reach "nowhere". 😅
9 kw battery is so low it should be 15
To be fair no ones rides at -30°C
@@DroneStrike1776 The slower you go the more efficient it is, just like when you're riding tight steep trails you don't use much fuel. All the energy consumption is in the high speed areas. I'd be super curious what the range is at 15 mph. That's about as fast as I average on a 250cc now on my local trails.
honestly hit this on the head. range is what will keep these bikes from dominating the market. I'm super excited for the day we can actually enjoy something like this for longer than your average American commute.
Range and feeling dead inside as you ride one.
TBH I'd settle for the price coming down so I can use it specifically for the average American commute. Or for a windfall improvement in electric bicycles and associated legislation.
yes, range...and testosterone . utterly negates the joy of motorcycles.
They should just offer saddlebag mounts that have some extra batteries inside to double the range (focus on density over discharge rate here; if they just trickle charge the primary cells, it'll be fine since you won't be wide open for 60 minutes straight anyway.) and allow for a nice set of metal cable ties to secure your trusty milk crate.
@@ulogy "since you won't be wide open for 60 minutes straight anyway." you and I ride our motorcycles in very different ways
"For Pierre's sake" is the most Canadian thing I have ever heard. I love it. Lol
Over five years and this show still is awesome. Ryan is always entertaining and the information is insightful- even to an old guy who hasn’t been on a bike in 8+ years. I know that if I ever do find my way back that I’ll be basing my decisions on the advice from this channel. Thank you amazing content.
Or 20+ years...
"first ever re-call of a sticker" had me in stitches.
There are so many recalls for stickers. it's not even funny, polaris has several for the sleds because they recommended the wrong gas and its blowing up engines.
In britain they put people in jail for stickers now, not even joking.
@@Alfahippie Sounds like a sticky situation. What kind of stickers would they put you in jail for? Or does it have to do with where you put them?
The best electric motorbikes are already unbelievably popular, at least where I live. They're the electric assist cruiser/commuter bicycles, "mopeds" in the original sense (MOtor+PEDal). They have a decent top speed and range for city commuting, don't require a license, can be ridden/parked anywhere without anyone really caring, and don't require registration or insurance. People seem to not consider these as "motorbikes" but they're basically as fast and capable as many small scooters of the past were.
I think these make some of the low range/low speed offerings from companies like Maeving a very hard sell when they're a fraction of the price, don't need registration/insurance, don't need a license and can be ridden/parked on footpaths - the slightly higher top speed of something like a Maeving just doesn't seem worth the extra cost and hassle.
I don't own one but they're a pretty compelling introduction to motorbikes for a huge number of people.
That’s because the prices are just stupid. Who with even an IQ or 10 spends thousands of dollars on a bicycle when they could have purchased an actual motorcycle that is infinitely more versatile.
@@JA-zh5xi people that don't want to pay registration+insurance or go through their countries deliberately arduous licensing schemes just to get a "real motorbike" that is less convenient for commuting on than an "electric bicycle"? Whether you agree with the current lack of regulation on "electric bicycles" or not, being able to use bike lanes and footpaths and park them wherever people park bicycles is clearly a big draw for a lot of people and makes them more versatile than a fully fledged "electric motorbike"
One of the things I've noticed in my area that has been getting more popular are the stand-on electric scooters. They're small, have decent range in a city setting, don't require insurance or a motorcycle license and they fold for easy storage. Some of the more powerful models are capable of 35mph which is quite fast for something like that. Plus you're able to stick to the sidewalks because it's not a bicycle so you're not in with traffic.
@@JA-zh5xi people who live in a city like NYC, where a registered motorcyle isnt even allowed to park in the central business district, but an ebike can be chained upo pretty much anywhere.
Best solution to those folks is to have one of each. The proper moto for getting out of town and on weekends
That’s the same conclusion from Ryan’s video on electric motorcycles
I've owned 3 electric motorcycles, all by Zero. They have their uses and are actually quite fun to ride. However, the current battery technology isn't up to where it needs to be for electric to replace gas. If I plan on a ride of 100 miles or so, I take my DSR/X. When I want to go farther, the BMW GS comes out of the garage.
Zero motorcycles have only been around since 2006. How fast do you trade them off?
@@JoeBManco I started off with a 3 year old used FXS in 2020. I kept that for 3 years. It was/is a fantastic light weight city bike but not real good at carrying passengers. In 2021 I bought a used 2018 SR and kept that for 2 years. That was better at carrying a passenger. Earlier this year I bought a new DSR/X. It has a lot more range than either of the two previous Zeros and is great at carrying a passenger. Add in the various ride modes and traction control makes the bike my favorite bike in over 45 years of motorcycle ownership.
@@j_k9643 Thanks for answering. I don't know anyone who has a Zero, but I'd sure like to ride one without talking to a salesman to see what I think. I don't buy the "loud pipes save lives" argument. Neither of my motorcycles are loud, and I just wear bright clothing with reflective strips for night riding.
@@j_k9643 I'm on my 2nd 2016 SR...the first one had 25K+ when I got hit and run. I turned right around and found the exact year and model second hand with less than 2K on it when the first would've cost me more to straighten out the frame. I also got a plate and eight screws on my ankle as a lifetime souvenir. Fortunately, I live 15 miles from the Rockies and get to do the twisties up to the top and back no problem, thanks to the regen coming down the mountain.
@@JoeBManco I'm sorry to have to tell you that 2006 is 18 years ago. 😁😥
The only time in my life I felt obliged or even felt like its my duty to hear the sponsors at the end....
Much Respect fortnine.
FortNine has no business being this damn good at making films. This man needs far more attention, views, and love. Thanks for all that you do for the motorcycling community.
Ryan + Aneesh is an epic combo. Ryan, your writing is fantastic... balanced and thought-provoking. Aneesh, your cinematography, editing, so carefully thought out and beautifully executed. Bravo, gentlemen!
I remember the days when the duo made this alone, now they have a team
I think aneesh left fortnine long ago
@@dharmendradewasi3267 He did, but he's back!
At 14K US these are dead on arrival. If they would just listen to customers they would move some units. Give us a reasonably priced electric Grom that we can put around town on while we wait for the battery tech to advance so it can support bigger and more expensive bikes with useful range.
THAT would bei stupid fun! I want one. And BMW just seems to have missed the mark with their C02, cause it seems to be an expensive option to look cool, not to hoon around.
It already exists, it's called e-bikes and you just have to pedal a bit. Or just a e-scooter.
@@sportyeight7769 On this side of the pond scooters are not (nor have they been any time in the recent past) very marketable. An e-bike has little in common with a Grom aside from a motor and two wheels, but if you want to pay 3K for an e-bike with marginal quality components instead of paying 3K for a pedal bike with reasonable quality components be my guest. None of this has anything to do with the context or point of the article which my original statement addressed (i.e. the current marketability of electric motorcycles for the North American market).
The problem is the electric would have to be half the price of the gas powered bike to compensate for the fact it would be worse in every way.
It will be a long wait. Even at the basic research level, battery density is barely 10% higher, so a real advance in the next ten years is very unlikely.
If we actually cared about the environment, we would just run adventure bikes on ethanol.
I bought a CanAm 125 enduro back in 1975. I had heard about the awesome power of the Rotax two stroke engine and it did not disappoint. Way more power than similar offerings from the Japanese. The bike was also innovative as it came with a plastic tank and fenders which were unbreakable and didn't rust. I remember the cooling fins on that engine were so large the engine looked more like a 250 than a 125. Those fins really helped to keep the engine temperature down. This was a quality motorcycle with class leading performance - and it was cool.
And one hell of racket! 😁 Unlike this CAN-AM.
4:38 - That black and red Can-Am was my dream bike as a kid in the 80s but now I want that bike w/ a Stark Varg motor because I want my murder machine to be completely silent.... 🖤
I never rode a motorcycle and I most definitely never will, but I enjoy your videos a lot and watch every one of them like it's a special treat. Thanks for your great work!
Honestly for most of the west european market this thing would work surprisingly well. First of all there are nearly no legal routes you can use with a adventure bike or a motocross style bike. Every trail is highly restricted and most of them do not allow vehicles at all. Second as i see the riders here around 95% of all "adventurebike" owners never took the bike more offroadthat a 200 meter gravel drive way. I see thaousands of GS, Africa Twin or Tenere riders who just want a bike to commute which is comfy to ride. So if you can plug it in at work and at home that thing is perfect for the european market (speaking from a Austrian perspective).
Bit BUT!!!: We also like to ride longer distances on weekends so that would only be a commuter thing as second or third bike and that kind of money and space for a 18k bike is rare.
yep. That range gets me halfway across my country lol
Just discovered this channel I recently watched around 30-40 videos last week absolute gold mine of a channel ⭐
That's gr8, m8!!! I r8 it 8 out of 8!
It's one of the best I've ever seen!
Having one power train you can transfer to another bike is actually genius play for the future as well. The more they make the less it will cost them to make. Right now the biggest barrier is the battery, it costs too much which drives up the price of the vehicle and drives down the range. But this is also a game everyone else has to play too.
I agree! Especially with BRP having to set up a dealership network for motorcycles, it's an easier sell when you have one platform to service but multiple motorcycles to sell. ~RF9
I've ridden enough bikes to know that you probably don't want to ride a small dirt bike 200 miles in one day anyway. Looks like a pretty fun bike. Basically no maintenance or sound, you'll probably be able to ride trails and areas that a regular bike won't be allowed. I like all bikes, so this one seems pretty cool to me. I'm not selling my Tenere 1200 for it, but it would be a cool bike around my house and for camping.
We had the Rotax 250 in our military bikes and I rode one as recon/courier, by the late 1980s-90s they were completely outclassed by what other countries were using; KLRs, the Dutch even had Guzzis that kicked our camouflaged butts but still, it made you feel like back in the 70s Rotax were on to something.
Maybe a few of these bikes will survive until the 40s-50s and someone who's probably not born yet will ride one and think "Hey. They were really on to something back then."
I was at the LA Coliseum in 1975 when Can Am won the 250cc Supercross championship. Everyone was asking what a Can Am was.
once again a masterpiece depicting the pros and cons of those bikes evenly
Seriously, even at a first attempt and such a low range it would probably still be a fun bike if it was priced the same as other 300 class bikes. That thing is priced up into BMW GS territory!!
It's Can-Am, built well, by Canucks, and won't grenade itself if you forget to change the oil on time.
Plus, that range means it's probably eligible for federal incentives. ($2-5000 off!)
@@ulogythat is still crazy expensive for a commuter bike with extremely low range on the highway.
@@DustySquitoNM Yeah, early adopter tax and all
My tenere brand new was 11500. I bought my ktm 300 1year old for 6500. Why would I trade those two bikes for one electric that doesn't do anything as good as my bikes do
@@Revy8 I'm inclined to believe Ryan when he says it's the best ADV bike he's ever tried. Range is definitely an issue.
I remember as a teenager in the 70s in Australia seeing a Can-Am dirt bike like the ones you showed and thought it looked awesome. It screamed past at a local MX track and everyone wanted to check it out.
The Gold Standard Of Motorcycle Lecturers! Thank You.
My wife bought a Zero FX which is basically an electric dirt bike and yeah, the range sucks but that thing is SO much fun. Great town bike. Down side we are having to make luggage for it but we can do that. I’m not saying buy an electric bike but Ryan is correct. You really should test ride one.
It's just too expensive to justify. For quadruple the price of a dirt bike, I expect to be able to ride it all day atleast
@@Justcarlosdiaz Do the math. Batteries are cheaper than fuel. What's your commute? 25 km? You don't even need 2 kWh you cover that distance. What does a kWh of battery cost these days? I haven't checked but it is way under 200 bucks. Let's say you spend 2000 bucks on a 6 kWh battery. That battery will take you to and from work thousands of times. Let's say 5 thousand trips at 50 km per trip. That is 250k km. Halve it to be safe. 125 000 km. How much fuel is that gonna cost you?
@@difflocktwo There are two sides to the coin here - I own two Zeros and a Chevy Bolt but I've also got gasoline vehicles as well. Being American I don't want to switch to liters and kilometers - here is my story though.
I have a Honda CB500X that I paid about $6000 for on clearance when it was new, I rode it about 15,000 miles commuting. It does a little better than 50 MPG on the freeway but for the sake of round numbers I'm going with 50 mpg and $4 per gallon for premium fuel. Based on those numbers I've spent about $1200 on fuel in 15,000 miles. I don't have my oil changed by the dealer but if I had it done every 3000 miles for $120 per visit (typical in my area) that brings my overall cost gasoline related maintenance up to $1800 over the course of 15,000 miles. Now there are other maintenance items to think about for sure - I figure valve adjustment and coolant exchange should add about $400 to my figure here for 15,000 miles of operation. Then there are other things like chains, tires, etc but Zeros are comparable to those expenses. For me personally, I don't trust anyone to work on my bike so my expenses are considerably lower doing everything myself.
Now I have 2 Zeros but only used my 2019 DSR for commuting. I racked up a little less than 10,000 miles on it so I can safely say that I would commute almost exactly 100 miles per week and I could run one full week in the summer time and 4 days in the winter time if I needed to. One full charge per 100 miles is a little more than $1 worth of electricity in my area. So for the same 15,000 miles I would have spent $200 on fuel, tightened the belt probably 4 times (probably costs $75 for the dealership to perform), changed the brake fluid per Zero's recommendation ($100 at the dealership). So $600 maintenance and fuel. So the Zero cost about $19,000 brand new. I would also mention that the Zero needed a new 12v DC converter at 9700 miles which was out of warranty and cost me about $500 for the parts which I installed myself but I think it's fair to say that all bikes break sometimes.
I figure I should be able to achieve 150,000 miles of riding on the Zero and I suspect the Honda will go that far too without major difficulty. I expect the Honda will cost me $22,000 to get to 150,000 miles and the Zero will cost $6,000. That means 150,000 miles on the Zero cost me $25,000 and the Honda will cost me $28,000. By the time I actually roll 150k miles on either bike though inflation will have caught up to the point where $3,000 ought to be the price of a dozen eggs.
Is electric going to save me a ton of money? Doesn't look like it to me - I'll probably never run up 150k miles on either of my bikes though so it's kind of a moot point. It's also possible these numbers look significantly different in Canada. I bought my electric vehicles because I like the quick and quiet power delivery - its just a wonderful experience for me. Whether electric vehicles are worthwhile or not I think is an issue for the free market to decide. There's definitely a case to be made for them.
@@difflocktwo dude are you serious? do the math??? you do the math!!! the bike is $10k+ and doesn't even have 50hp. my commute is 80km... each way. I can either ride my Grom which would get 140mpg and max out at 60 or take my Honda nighthawk 750 and get 40mpg and cruise at 80mph. Both of these bikes combined and the fuel and maintenance costs considerably less than this bike. For 35kW and $10k+, you can buy it if you want, but most people won't and for good reason. Electric cars might taken off but that's because weight doesn't really matter in cars. Weight and range most certainly matter with motorcycles. Do you even ride bro?
@@Kburd-wr6dq for your 160 km round trip you would need 10 kwh of battery.
a battery costs way less than 200 usd per kwh. so at most a battery that size would cost 2000 usd.
let's say the battery costs 5000 usd for 10 kwh, way above market value.
that 5000 usd battery will easily drive your commute 1000 times. it can do it 1000s of times. but let's say 1000 trips. that is 160k km.
on your grom 160k km would take 2700 liters of fuel, almost 3000 liters.
at 3 usd per liter, that is 9000 usd ONLY in fuel.
Every thing you need to know about owning an electric motorcycle from someone who's had and ridden one for 5 years:
1) EVM's are THE BEST urban commuter. Period. Quick, nibble, quiet, right hand only acceleration/braking, practically no maintenance. A pure joy to ride in traffic.
2) EVM's are THE WORST motorcycle if you want to go 'out of town'. Period.
I have been riding a 2017 Zero SR (13kw w/charge tank) since I bought it used in 2019. Key word "used". Essentially half off retail price for a 2-year old bike with less than 2k miles on it. But I TRULY ONLY NEED an in-city commuter bike. And dam, it's such a joy to ride in traffic. I have it set up 70% power/100% regen. It's super nimble, and slices through traffic like a hot knife through butter. And because it's a 'real' motorcycle, I can easily do short stints at freeway speeds (as long as I stay in town). In the 5 years I've owned it, the only maintenance I've done is had the brake fluid changed, and put new tires on it. It's so quiet I can actually hear most traffic coming up behind me. You know how uncomfortable it is to sit on an ICE moto at a stoplight in summer (think super hot engine + hot exhaust + summer temps)? Not an issue with an EVM. Not shifting is also priceless in urban traffic (I do miss rowing through gears on back country roads.. but again, I need an urban bike). What are the downsides? Freeway range + charging time. I can get about 70 miles/charge at 70mph. And it takes +/-3.5-4 hours to charge from 10% to 100%. So going out of town would mean ride for an hour, charge for 4 hours, repeat. You can't take it out of town. However, I get around 150 miles/charge in the city. 35mph to 55mph. I have a pretty short commute and can go 10 days between charging.
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I think the thing EVM manufacturers are missing is commuting. The battery capacity/charging times just aren't there yet for EVMs to compete with ICE motos... So seeing every brand build an "ICE looking" EVM seems silly. The one thing I truly wish my Zero SR had would be STORAGE. Enough to house 2 full face helmets at least. I would much rather have 'storage' than 'traditional looks'. I think as 'designated' commuters, EVMs would crush it.
Yep I'd agree. I have a much cheaper EV bike (Super Soco TX Max) as a commuter in the city and it's AWESOME for that. Easy, reliable, nimble, smooth, super cheap to run, trivial to maintain - also had it 5 years and it's been so little effort. For anything that isn't a short city commute it's utterly awful (way worse than your Zero I promise you! 3.2kWh battery is small, motor is gutless...)
I have considered a Zero many times but the issue for me with it, or any other better (compared to mine) EV motorbike is.... it'd still be really good at what I already do, and still be rubbish at what I don't do. For much more money. Yes, I'd love to have an extra 20mph top speed and faster acceleration, but that's about it. Well, and as you say storage - even one full face helmet fitting would be lovely.
I could imagine one day them getting to a point where they can be general purpose bikes but it's not close. In the meantime I think I'll stay riding my cheap crap bike because for what I use it for it's nearly perfect. And I'll continue being jealous of those who do choose to drop more money on a Zero or similar, even if I can't justify the price myself - enjoy your ride stranger!
@@asharak84 well, used Zero's(like mine) can be had for $5-$8k.. Not sure what your bike cost, but buying a zero 'used' is the way to go (if you want one..)
I love the panning to the super yacht at the ending. Great visual storytelling.
Bro I just want to say this, Your showmanship is like nothing out there, Your Visual Story telling techniques are out of this world. As someone who works in Media I take my hat of for your amazing Talent, you would be able to make movies like David Fincher keeping people captivated. Hollywood need you.
I do not have EV fatigue. I would absolutely love to have an electric commuter bike. But with the price of Honda Groms and even Navis, it's so hard to justify going electric.
I also like the electric motor, but the way to power it is just not there. Battery suck
Just buy an electric bike. Get the advantage, and none of the rules or costs associated with
Check out Escooters and EUCs. An EUC can fit under your desk and also outperform most EMotos.
Have you considered an E-bicycle? You can get them for about $1k.
groms are 10x better than this electric junk. would not get a navi tho
You nailed it when you talk about range on electric motorcycles! I myself could use a electric motorcycle daily but if I can’t ride from A to B and back to A it’s useless. The problems are as you point out, the battery! It’s like seeing the electric evolution of the car industry all over again. Low mileage’s, long charging and range issues. I am all in on motorcycles if range increase to upwards to 300 km!👍
That and the cost. When people are getting like a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the range but paying twice the price it really kills it for most people.
I have a short daily commute and occasionally go out for a quick ride through the hills on weekends but the thing is I already have a perfectly good gas powered bike that's paid off so even if I'm potentially the perfect market case use for these things there's no way I'm shelling out twice the price of what my bike cost new to keep doing what I'm already doing.
Yeah, the tech is great for bicycle level bikes and apparently scooters up to maybe 30 mph range are decent for inner city travel, but going much above that you still run into serious issues. Price, range and performance just don't come together to form a viable product yet, and the gap is still kinda large, marginal improvements just won't do.
@@Strideo1 yep, the cost on top of the range is a real problem. The fact that electric bikes haven't been around for long enough to have a selection of second hand machines locks you into buying a new one. And why would I spend $20-25,000 here in Aus for an electric model when my 16 year old Bandit 1250 ( that I paid $6,000 for) has a 320km range, enough torque to pull out tree stumps, can carry all the gear I want, and has great fuel economy to boot!?
I think there's plenty of market for a relatively low range electric motorcycle as a fun and nimble commuter vehicle. The issue is to do that you need something cheap that would warrant just having it as an extra vehicle just for that purpose. Only ones I've found that fit that bill were ones like the CSC City Slicker that could never go fast enough to go on the highway but was better than an E-bike. I definitely don't see the point of a relatively expensive electric motorcycle because there's no way you would have that as your only bike when you could just get a normal bike that already has pretty great fuel economy and is easy to refill.
The low speed off throttle issue is hopefully tunable. Hopefully it also flashes the stop light
I really surprised that such problems still are thing with EV. Because 10-15 years ago everyone who ride e-bike or EV knew it and didn't like.
I work for a Honda/Yamaha/Can-Am/Sea Doo dealership, one of our dealership principals is spending this week looking at these bikes. The company is debating taking on the line. I'm hoping we get a promo model shortly for the staff to test (this is how I discovered both the Spyder and Riker many years ago), as I can see a use for one. I commute to work daily on two wheels as long as the weather permits, already owning two EV automobiles means I'm well set up for home charging and am well used to the situation, and having owned a number of motorcycle-class scooters in the past (which became my preferred daily ride for commuting) can see where these bikes will fill the role very nicely.
Besides, how often do you see a Harley-Davidson riding, patch flying (yes, hard core M/C) biker adding an E-motorcycle to the daily stable? Range is not a problem for me. Price? That's what I'll be waiting on.
Great stuff, enlightening as ever . You’ve nailed the parameters and the paradox of great motorcycle engineering and battery wishful hoping in a nutshell .. still waiting 🤞
It must be unfathomable for government officials to understand how or why people just don’t want EVs on that level.
Modern governments believe that capitalism can solve all our problems, they think that businesses can innovate and achieve anything with the right incentives and competition
@@theclamhammer4447 The Tesla Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023... Looks like people like EVs.
So you should just be allowed to keep burning a finite resource that causes lots of ecological damage as well as air pollution? Here in Ontario, apart from a few Natural Gas and Biomass plants, our electric grid is clean, hell we call it Hydro for a reason.
When you're chauffeured to your govt. supplied airplane such trivial thoughts don't dare enter your brain.
@@coastaku1954hydroelectric power is terrible for the environment possibly the worst lol😂
Those exact bikes but with an engine would be an instant sales hit
Can-Am has a punchy 600cc twin in their Ryker. But with the battery monocoque, it would have to be a completely different motorcycle. ~RF9
Not at that price range they won’t. 18k is delulu money.
So whack an ultra light generator on the tail.
@@FortNine Are they planning on making an EV Ryker? More room for batteries at least, although more weight. Maybe they could use a beefed up version of the same drive train with it :)
is it repairable? thats my biggest question. will they give us the software, will they give us the schematics, or basic electronic specs for the plugs and controllers? gas bikes, you know the specs of the gaskets and piston rings and bolt torque, we need the equivalents for e-motos or it will forever be an undependable toy. which they don't have to be, regardless of range.
I loved my Zero DSR. After 25 years of riding a lot of motorbikes this was the best fun i ever had. And it was cheap to run, first out of the garage of my motorcycles every spring. 250km range was plenty for my everyday use 9 years ago...
Yea sure😂
2:15 - love the cheeky "moon for scale", looking at that brick strapped to a handlebar
The Origin may be perfect for someone like me. Every summer I go camping for two weeks in Colorado. I normally spend 1/3 of my time hiking, 1/3 of my time fishing, and 1/3 of my time riding the trails. I could let it charge on solar while I hike or fish, and ride it the other days.
Curse you Ryan for making me want another motorcycle.
If you think you're charging an EV off solar, LOL
The math doesn't work out here, even a large camping solar panel is only going to provide around 0.2 KW under ideal conditions, it'll take multiple days of direct sunlight to charge an 8.9KWh battery
@@oso1165if an electric car with a small solar panel can put on 22 miles (Aptera) in a day without charging just from solar, a big solar panel in good Colorado sun could absolutely charge up this tiny thing. Learn some facts.
Unless you have a good generator 😂
Charge on solar? Say you don’t understand math without saying you don’t understand math.
I rarely travel more than 40 miles on my bike & hate taking care of gas engines. It sounds perfect for me. I remember the Can-Am Enduro bikes with the air intake through the top of the frame so you could ride through water over the airbox & seat.
Almost every single time i get on a bike i burn through 4-5 gallons easy 75 100 miles each way just for a joyride. Electric bikes are scams compared to things like dr650 indian scout 1200 and tenere 700 olhonda afri a twim 750 theres like sv650s and all these great bikes that are clesrly way better and more capable in key ways. That being said can am makes their s am electric bikes they do look better than the livewire did. Id rather gave a dr650 as a commuter bike for when i go 30 miles each way maybe im going to a pawn shop and then a chick fil a amd back home you know how sometimes you just pop jere or there for things. 18k is too much i cam gey you a really damn good hinda avcord for far less youll have so much money left itll pay the difference and be worth it still cheaper than this electric bike. Honda grom outranges it. Klx 300 outranges it. Everything out ranges it. You can get a indian scout for way way less and it csn go like 150 miles and yiu can fill it right back up in seconds and go another 150 all the wat across the country
$18,000 for this sounds perfect to you? Why is everyone a 🤡🤡🤡🤡 nowadays? Wtf. Nobody can think rationally or logically anymore. Very scary….
@@keithquinn5624 What was irrational or illogical about what he said? He rides short distances, hates maintaining ICEs, and apparently has $18k. That makes this a compelling choice. There's nothing irrational or illogical about that. Your only possible argument is that he has his priorities wrong but...that's not up to you. I'm in a similar boat. I know nothing about ICEs and have no space to work on them myself even if I did, but I like fast electric bikes and I have $18k.
@@aaronlawrence6350 🤣😂🤣🤡🤡🤡
Right I don’t disagree you’d like the bike but aren’t you gonna stop at some point and think “can’t I just pay a mechanic to deal with anything with the money I’ll save from not spending $18K on this?
We travel a lot in B.C. don’t think we have gone on a trip yet where you don’t see a truck or motor home pulling a trailer with a couple of dirt bikes aboard. You can haul that sucker out to the track on a trailer, then get the benefit of performance on the track. Some of those places even have a full hookup rv campground so you can plug your charger into that 50 amp service meant for a motor home.
Reality is, market for these things initially will be similar to the jet ski, you don’t ride a jet ski to the lake, you put it on a trailer. Trailer this to the track is not terribly different.
but a dirt bike is 200lbs lighter
I can’t get enough of these videos you guys make about the history of these Canadian brands and their history, truly makes me proud of what this country once was and is still capable of
I mean, I like my Skidoo but I dunno what else you're talking about. The Rotax engine isn't Canadian, and that's the best part of it. Be sure to let us know when you find the stuff we're still capable of.
The Origin "adventure bike" looks radical. I'll go electric if and when they figure out the big R....range, range, range. Range is everything for the riding I do. Ex: Last Sunday, I enjoyed a 390 km day loop on 80 percent gravel and chunk with 11,000 meters of elevation gain and lost on my kitted out 2020 Honda nc750xd "adventure bike" (with my gas bag strapped on the rack). Same for 80 km + or - single track mountain rides on my ktm 300 with my bigger gas tank.
I think Can-Am is banking on people seeing these as short range dual sports and commuters, with a particular dual sport focus of people who bring their bikes on trucks and trailers to where they ride. When you think of it as a truck bike, it starts to make more sense.
If you have a truck then you dont need the dual sport aspect with the plate, lights, and cost that comes with
It also depends on the charging (swappable batteries please!) of it and your infrastructure where you ride. I do trailer dirtbikes to the mountains to ride, and while this intrigues me, would definitely not buy one- I often ride more than an hour and it costs way more than my dirtbikes (and than my dualsport).
Especially if you have an electric truck with the capability to recharge the bike in the bush.
@raptorjesus5488 that's not really much of a cost in the modern day. It's not too much in my opinion to throw the whole concept away.
I love how it isnt ugly as hell bit electric battery makes it not worth it to me hecause of low range and price. It looks incredible i wish it actually competed with something like transalp 750 where you can actually drive it places. Rsnge so low on this i will run out of juice on my way back from the arbys it doesnt make sense
I'm in the very small demographic where this almost makes sense. My commute to work is about 5 miles and is about 50% gravel, and I can plug in both at home and work.
So I could get this. ...Or, I could get an E-MTB for one tenth the price.
...Or I can use the DR650 I have to get to work and fun, and everything else because I basically don't have range anxiety while costing 60% of the original purchase price.
The price reminds me of why I don't own an electric car: The price. I don't want luxury. I just want it to work. But 50 grand car or 18 grand for a bike? Nope. And most people can't get one either without a big loan.
Electric adventure bikes are an answer to a question nobody really asked because a much better solution already exists-electric mountain bikes. OHV trails are rapidly going away but multiuse hike and bike trails are much more appealing to the general population, plus the bikes themselves are much easier on the terrain. You can buy a good eMTB for less than half of this, drive to the trailhead (or even fly with it), and ride all day. Keep a street bike for touring, eMTB for off-road. You’re riding will shift more towards techy off road instead of high mileage, gentle big adv rides, but it seems like a better compromise than something like this which can’t do either.
Ryan, don't stop doing what your doing. Always love your videos. Great job.
I'm never buying Can-Am again.
Years ago I ordered Can-Am parts from Partzilla and I got an email stating that they weren't allowed by Can-Am to ship those outside of North America.
It's nice to see the Can-Am name badge on a two-wheel motorcycle again, even if it isn't gasoline-powered.
Or viable? 😆
Who cares. Know one that is stupid enough to buy one of these even knows what can am is. More tax payer money to a other failed attempt 😅
7:00 How does a rear wheel hub motor stack up against this inho overly engineered drivetrain??
Long time follower. While the quality is always excellent I just wanted to say your non-concluding concluding comments/video from 8:58 were outstanding by even your own standards.
Few historical motorcycle videos get made without Buell somehow getting burned. This was an especially good one. Maybe we ought to call it the Buell Burn.
Another home run of a video, thanks Ryan
Pry my ICE out of my cold dead hands
I think that’s their plan.
@@ORflycaster Fine by me lol
Good timing. I was just rewatching the old videos to get my fix.
Dude what a super video. One of the best reviews of any product I’ve seen and wanted it to keep going. Subbed!
I’ve owned my Energica SS9 for three years now and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I have a roughly 30 minute work commute through Los Angeles and it’s perfect. No issues and little maintenance. I get decent range but would never expect to do a long road trip.
I can’t wait for solid state batteries to come out. Doubling the range would make this the PERFECT daily dual sport for me.
yeah, keep waiting
Batteries with Silicon anodes are starting to be produced. They can provide almost a big a range increase as solid state. However they will be expensive, and electric motorcycles already have a cost disadvantage. Still, it would be nice to have a few long range electric motorcycles available for people willing to pay the premium.
I want the burning capabilities of the batteries to be fixed before improving range. Imagine parking that live grenade in your garage after a very shaky ride or juste after a little drop.
SSB are already out, the problem with them is their density is even lower. They are much safer to handle but have a huge volume for their capacity.
@@NineSun001Yeah, from what I understand the biggest benefit of solid state batteries is that they can be charged and discharged many many more cycles than standard lithium ion batteries without wearing out as quickly. Sounds great for something like a phone or a home battery bank.
Great job on the motorcycles and misfits!
I could very nearly be that guy. It's so frustratingly close.
These days I mostly tow my 2005 KLR650 to a trail to mess around before towing it back home behind my Accord. It's gotten me out riding more than I would have if I had to ride there and back though the KLR could do it, but I live over an hour or more from all the trails in my area and that'd be tough after beating myself up riding off road. Call it soft if you like. But I enjoy riding harder knowing I have a restful drive home afterwards.
I loved the look of the Origin when I saw it, and was even more excited seeing the brand come back to motorcycles being a Canadian myself. I thought of it as a possible replacement for the KLR some day since I need a bike to be plated for some sections of the trails I ride. Could it fill this role? Maybe, but the reason I use the bushpig as a dirt bike in the first place is because the cheapest bike is the one you already have. I'd be hard pressed to justify the money on a bike that sounds like it wouldn't be able to do my 120km round trip highway commute as I occasionally do on the KLR.
It was so close, so very close to making it worth it in my head. If I didn't have to find a place at work to plug it in I could almost swing a case for it against my frugal judgement. I'd be one of those nutjobs on the useless adventure bike. But as it is, it'd be a tough sell to be sure.
And never judge the ranges off of any printed stats for any electric vehicles. It's never going to be 120km unless you're rolling downhill with a stiff wind behind you. You'll probably get 100km real by just riding economically, and if you really want to enjoy your bike, i bet it's going to be 70 or 80. And then you take temperature into consideration (especially as this is Canada), and then you take the 20% battery power capacity drop in two years, and you'll end up at a 50-60km range, which is far from the sticker.
never have i seen a channel blend in technical explanation and design stories that well!!
Thank you for breaking engineering topics down and awesome presentations.
50 seconds ago I was made for this. Time to enjoy the most thorough cinematic review
Imagine how many car companies went out of business while we were switching from horse and buggy to ICE vehicles. I mean, we’d have to have gas stations on every corner. Can you imagine?
Oh shit, is Aneesh back with you guys? Awesome, I always thought him and Ryan made the best videos.
Look on the bright side. 71 miles of range makes every adventure ride, an adventure.
Ryan- a great video as always and I apologise that my first (I think) comment is a correction.
Your explanation of anti-squat and its ability to offset load transfer is not correct. A vehicle with 100% anti-squat will not "squat" at all during acceleration, yes. This simply means that under acceleration the rear suspension will not compress and the front suspension will not extend- the sprung mass of the vehicle remains level. What this does not mean is that there is no weight transfer, as you mentioned in this video. In fact no amount of anti-squat, anti-dive or anti-anything can change the steady-state load transfer (that is, in the case of longitudinal forwards acceleration, the reduction of normal load at the front tyre and increase in normal load at the rear tyre). This is a very common misconception about load transfer, and there are similar misunderstandings with cars where people say that changing the roll stiffness or roll centres will change the total lateral load transfer when cornering- this is not possible (with cars you can adjust the roll stiffnesses of the front and rear axles to change the distribution of load transfer between the two axles, but never the total load transfer). You made a similar statement as the one in this video in the T7 video I believe, implying that the anti-squat changes the load transfer and allowed Yamaha to use a different static weight distribution; this is not true either.
The load transfer experienced by a vehicle is purely a function of the magnitude of acceleration, mass, height of the centre of gravity, and the wheelbase (or track in the case of lateral load transfer in cars). Simply, if you do a free body diagram of the bike when it is accelerating, when you treat the wheels and the chassis as one body and ignore the internal forces that occur between them, that free body diagram does not change whether you have anti-squat or not (in fact, it doesn't even change if you have no suspension at all- the load transfer is still the same!). The load transfer happens (as you know) because the force pushing the tyre forwards is at some non-zero perpendicular distance from the centre of mass, creating a moment that must be reacted by the tyres. Now if you treat the rear wheel/swingarm assembly as a separate body from the chassis, you can see that yes, due to anti-squat the swingarm does push the chassis up with some force, but all that means is that (in steady state), the chassis will push the swingarm back down with an equal force, essentially pushing the rear wheel back into the road (as you said yourself in the video). That extra force pushing the rear wheel down is nothing more than the weight transfer onto the rear you were going to get anyway if you didn't have anti-squat.
The benefit of anti-squat and anti-dive are not that they negate weight transfer, it is simply the fact that they keep the bike level, which is more comfortable and does not cause changes in steering geometry. Weight transfer is of course an enemy as any amount of weight transfer always causes the sum of the maximum traction forces of the tyres to reduce. The only way to reduce it is to lower the centre of gravity, increase the wheelbase or decrease the mass.
As a caveat to this and for completeness, squat and dive will cause some weight transfer of course, as they cause the CoG to actually move. However this, as a proportion of the overall weight transfer during acceleration and braking, will be tiny. In addition there will be all sorts of transient effects that suspensions have, but the steady state will give you a good general picture.
Thank you for the excellent video Ryan and I hope my comment is of some use to someone!
A great step forward. Gasoline engines in the 1920's were also thirsty (Model T at 2.9 litres is quoted as getting 13-21 mpg), so the electric technology needs some time, but it is getting there. We're only 15 years in to practical electric vehicles. In 10 years the range will be double and the lithium will be recycled. We're in our second season of running (Kress) commercial electric lawnmowers, weed whackers, trimmers etc. all day long, and they are clean, powerful and quieter (but still not quiet) than our gas mowers. The smaller equipment batteries recharge very quickly (the cooling is the secret), however we do have to have a large Cyber-tank storage battery on the truck and that takes 3 - 4 hours to fully recharge. We expect 3000 cycles (recharges) before the big battery sees a noticeable decline in capability. It's definitely getting there, and this bike seems like a significant step forward.
"We're only 15 years in to practical electric vehicles."
We're 150 years into the widespread use of EVs as one of the pillars of global transportation. Trams, trains etc.
Since you yapped about practically nothing I would appreciate if you would respond to @jamesrowland8971 because I think they has a good point. How do you argue against the fact that electricity has provided propulsion for numerous modes of transportation for a lot more than 15 years?
@@Kburd-wr6dq well, there is a key difference. Rail networks can have fixed infrastructure to deliver enormous amounts of power on demand for the vehicles on the network. The new development is really due to lithium batteries having higher capacities than previous cost effective technologies. The thing is though; it's not the 'electric technology'. Electric motors and controllers have been refined to a level that ICE motors could only ever dream of, in terms of efficiency, reliability, cost.
It's how you get the power into them that has been tricky.
As electric motorcycles are still in their infancy, we have much to look forward-to, in-terms of innovation, design evolution and refinements
I think they both look rad, if they did 400km on a charge I'd be wanting one!
I would be happy if my gas bike got 400km of range.
I think you are the one who does the best mc reportage on all of TH-cam. factual and careful assessment. fun to look at. keep it up please. you will go far
So good!!! Delivery; content; camera work; aesthetics; editing; EVERYTHING... Sooooooo goooooooddd!!!! Love this channel! (reminds me of UK Top Gear in it glory years)
Range or not, I hope the day never comes when I have to ride an electric bike.
Monday night upload? Fine by me. Keep them coming.
It was released after Can-Am had their unveiling event tonight.
5:40 Doesn't that technically make it a scooter?
Yes, yes it does
2:15 Moon for scale cracked me up. Keep doing your work FortNine, i love it.
The subtle pan over to the mega yacht at the end was great!
Why can’t Can-Am just make regular motorcycles? Why does it have to be so niche? Give me a small regular fun Can-Am bike everyone can buy. I’d love to own a Canadian motorcycle.
Riding imitation ICE-engined bikes is like eating tofu hot dogs. EV won't get traction until they make their own way. I vote for Tron styling.
EV literally already has traction, they don't need any fancy styling. People are sold on NO MAINTENANCE, never breaks down, and gets from point A to point B.
Ev bikes are doomed.
@@Waldo1122is that why Harley is slashing livewire’s price? It’s now gaining traction?
@@irvinclemente2368 Electric cars have major traction. Electric bikes need more development to get there hence you don't see Kawasaki/BMW with a flagship electric bike. BMW is doing great with their electric scooter by the way.
Range + recharge time is the Achilles heel of EVs. 2035 is probably too soon to solve it.
Polestar managed to charge their prototype car to 80% in 10 minutes a couple months ago, it is advancing faster than you think.
@@Waldo1122 no word on how horribly that destroys the battery life and this was a demo on a prototype. Still 10 minutes is at least within the realm of reasonable for people who are on the road. Still, hard to carry an extra 50 to 100 miles of range with you for the long legs of the trip, and, at least for bikes, "long leg" has a much shorter definition than it does for ICE bikes.
@@merpius It hasn't destroyed the battery life of Teslas. People supercharger their cars wvery single day yet it is RARE for an electric vehicle to ever see the dealership again after driving off the lot.
A guy just recently reached 400,000 miles on his Tesla Model S 2017 and said he had not ONCE been to dealer and still has the original battery and charges to 100% everyday.
@Waldo1122 how much are they paying you waldo? I want in.
@@beerdedwanderer Nothing, I am just not foolish enough to ride the petrol bike train. The motorcycle industry is collapsing, cars are more fuel efficient than most bikes now, motorcycle maintenance has gotten out of control, stealership labor rates are only going up EXPONENTIALLY, reliability haunts most motorcycle manufacturers. Electric is the answer to all of this.
You just keep getting better kid. You and production team.
I always look forward to a new upload with anticipation, and I'm never disappointed. Greetings from Poland!
If the motor is attached/part of the swingarm, does that mean it’s technically a scooter?
After the war, internal combustion engines will just be a forgotten myth.
Frightening for two reasons.
As a moto enthusiast and hard core Duck boy, i would NEVER EEEEEVVER even consider a two wheeled consumer electronic moto. No way in HELL! I like motos because of the viceral feeling they give me. The sound they put out, the smell. You take all that away with a BEV. Sure it might be quick but its never fast, and id never be able to do what i love on the moto, which is go far. Hell i already have to stop every hour on long distant trips to take a break. But I'm not stopping long. Its just for gas and a piss. Or in the city i want my feels and id never get that on a disney land ride. I hate these things for all they represent. Sure i want clean air but i want fun. Tell industry to suck it up, transportation globally is only 18% of the emissions with all the other industries, and war filling up the rest. And even that doesn't account for consumer transport which is even less. They are just pissing on our toys.
With battery energy density so low, efficiency is king in electric vehicles. For this reason an e-MTB is a more effective off-road companion, not least because it can be carried to the trail head on almost any car, goes at speeds where efficiency is not blown out by air resistance, and can be assisted by pedalling. 115km range on an e-MTB is no problem, with a tenth of the battery size, and they cost half as much. For city use, the same applies for different reasons - ebikes can generally use cycle lanes (whereas e-motorbikes cannot), and are narrow enough to filter more effectively through traffic. I love the idea of an electric motorcycle but for now, for my purposes, they just don't quite stack up.
The range is a bummer, but the bike itself seems like fun. I've ridden a Zero FXS before and really enjoyed it. If you live where you ride, these things are probably really sweet.
Can never comment first since it's all bots lol