it was a ner it needed, it was extremely gold effecient, in reality pre nerf abysal mask should have been like 3200 gold, it was literally on the level of the old mythic items all for 2500 gold, it was fucking insanely op for how cheap it was, post nerf is still good, you just have to buy it for specific reason now
@@douglaswalker7707 so the reason is never, it wasnt necesary to enterily remove the mr passive, just reduce it from 9 per target to 5 or 4 and that would have been great
@@lapusso3704 you are literally just wrong, a team wide 30 percent boost in magic damage, plus being able to get up to 100 mr, all from a 2500 gold item was fucking absurdlely broken, and you 100 percent can still buy the item for specific reason, still gives a nice amount of hp and mr for cheap, and it improves you and your teams damage by 30 percent, still a strong item, was absolutely broken before
@@douglaswalker7707 quite literally impossible to get 100 if you are getting 9 per champion and theres only 5 of them on the enemy team, again reducing the thing to 5 o even 3 per champion couls be totally fine.
Warwick, Urgot, Ashe, Morgana also have honorable mentions. Sure, you can take cleanse into ashe, but morg can just lock you down anyway, and Warwick and Urgot both have suppression ultimates. Being able to QSS Urgot's execute is gigantic, albeit you're not building the proper stat against him. Not JUST Malz, but he's definitely the first that comes to mind
@@youngshmurda4233 not saying you're wrong, and its all situationally dependant. Am I playing sivir? Im never buying qss unless im bm'ing. Am I playing jhin? I might pick it up if the map is dark as shit and they have an ashe/morgana.
in wild rift qss is an enchantment for boots and you don't have to spend a whole slot for it. i think if that was the case for league people would buy qss more often
Abyssal is good on all the magic tanks, good vs heavy ap team, good with fed scale mage like cassio or multiple mages, good in aram in general, this item was so secretly op for a long time and is still very strong
@@megumin9020 He wasn't originally. Before he was the most basic tank to ever tank. He was baby's first tank. Low, but reliable damage and lots of sticking power to body block shots
Not surprised he didn’t talk about Serpent’s Fang. No one remembers Serpent’s Fang exists because the only times to NEED to build it are reserved for hyper-specific team comps
sometimes i have to sacrifice a whole item slot with Serpent's Fang because no one wants to build it. in an aram against a seraphine, an orianna and a sett, shield reduction would be awesome, but the item's stats are just so... sad. so there goes me, the yuumi, the milio, building Serpent's Fang just to tone down the efficiency of shields by like... 33% or however much it is.
It is a pretty good counter item for Yorick since he can apply the debuff from a pretty safe distance thanks to his ghouls but other than that it isn't really all that useful
The mobile game Wild Rift actually fixes the QSS issue I think (and actually holds a huge part in its current meta). In Wild Rift, tier 2 boots can be further upgraded to include an active effect, similar to League actives on items, just with no added stat bonuses. Wild Rift’s QSS is on a much shorter cooldown at a cheaper price without sacrificing an item slot. This also means it can be built on a lot more champions.
I think having a boot upgrade would be a good idea (or maybe bringing back boot augments, from years ago). Like, currently, Berserker's Greaves can upgrade into Zephy, so maybe Merc Treads can upgrade into QSS? Maybe give it 2 charges as its active for cleansing CC, meaning it could retain a long potential cooldown but also allow players to have it up when they need it if they plan well.
That boots active like zin zhao ult is si cheeze on blitz, Hook, punch then boots push them to tower, while ADC doing free hits during all those animations. Also, if there's no supress, everyone just buy zhonyas boots, it's a system that just replaces old annoyance with new ones.
QSS in Wild Rift also gives you CC IMMUNITY for 0.75 seconds, meaning you can pre-QSS before you get hit by a CC or you can QSS your current CC and not get chain CC'd if you time it right. That is huge cause you don't have to be extremely precise on the QSS timing or you can be extremely precise and use QSS on multiple CCs coming your way.
14:22 they're not pointless they just have very specific uses. The letter z is only in 2.5% of words but we still need it in the alphabet just like how qss is super niche but very useful for the right situation
I’ve been saying for a while that Qss should give like 2 seconds of cc immunity and like 20% tenacity, meaning you can pop it preemptily, and you can tank multiple cc’s while also giving tenacity by itself.
Wild Rift's QSS boot enchant gives 0.75 seconds of CC immunity, so you don't have to be as precise with it. That means that you can pre-QSS if you know you are about to get hit by a CC or you can time it right so you QSS your current CC and eat another CC in the 0.75 seconds of CC immunity.
@@kadrikarakoc807 Don't instantly use your cc on them, and actually think about how you need to use the cc before you dumping literally every kind of cc into them.
Order of events: 1. Champs with really good, possibly meta-defining CC for pro play get added (like Mordekaiser) 2. To avoid those champs dominating pro, they add QSS to counter them 3. Because pros know about QSS, the champs it counters never get picked in pro as they would be useless 4. Item and the champs it counters never show up in pro 5. People in ranked don't even know it exists or don't want to build it 6. Item never shows up in ranked Ultimate result: Item is simultaneously extremely strong and also literally never seen anywhere.
Fimblewinter is what every good tanky support builds, as soon as you get 400 gold in lane you back and grab the first part of item and let it build up, focus on building your second item to be more useful and by the time you get 360 stacks you should have enough gold to have one item already completed and enough to finish this one and get insta upgrade from basic version to Fimblewinter
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox I don't know if you have enough gold for it by the end of the game (I'm an ARAM player nowadays so I'm super out of the loop on how fast you get gold on SR), but do you ever go Eclipse too? My friend whenever he gets Poppy on ARAM goes Eclipse into Fimbul, those combined with the passive shield, it makes it really difficult to kill Poppy and she does quite a lot of damage on top of that.
Hourglass: You press it, and you get guaranteed invulnerability time. Maybe you get bursted down immediately after, but you have guaranteed your time. QSS: You press it, and if you press it at exactly the right time (and thus cooldowns - oh look you're a mage you like that), you negate a second, or maybe even 2, of CC... If you don't get hit by another one immediately thereafter. You are guaranteed nothing, and the full onus is on you to press it correctly, and only after all CC has already been used on you. The variance is too high to be worth the cost relative to the stats it gives.
It diverts too much attention from your other tasks for very little gain. Like compared to Hourglass for example, it gives you invulnerability for a significant amount of time provided if you activate it at the right moment. Which means not only you get away from the CC part of the spell you also avoid the damage that comes with it. Compared to its equivalent in DotA it's also bad. BKB gives you 4 seconds of magic immunity upon activation. It's so impactful that the late game it often revolves around baiting the enemy carries to waste their BKB. Or Linken sphere. It's basically a Malzahar passive that you can buy except it's even better because it's only activated if you are targeted by a point and click spell and the upgraded version will even reflect the spell back at the user. Which means both of these items not only block the status effects inflicted on you but also the damage. QSS only blocks the CC and not the damage you're still getting a chunk of your health removed in the late game. Not to mention the other two they both provide bonus health which are useful stats regardless of your class. QSS is just just bad overall. It takes too much attention from you to do a mediocre job.
Riots point with removing qss interactions is that it feels bad for certain characters that they can be denied. But my point is feels WAY WORSE to be the person who is being turbo bullied by point and click one shots and and EVEN WORSE the only way to defend yourself is buying a 1300 gold item that doesn't turn into any good items.
@@reginaldkelly7809imo I'm less so worried about mord because even though his ulti is point and click you can kite him inside it. Moreso talking about Phreak saying he wants to remove the qss interaction on Malz r like they did for mord r.
Well, the only thing it was used for was evading Malzahar and Mordekaiser, (ADC's would buy it 90% of the time if there was a mord on the enemy team) and now Mordekaiser R cannot be cleansed so it lost nearly all its functionality.
Edge of Night for ADC's or Banshee's Veil for AP... Morde's pull and bash are telegraphed... so unless you have low mobility he essentially can do nothing to you and in case he hits a pull, you can retreat immediately... and chill until your shield is back up...
I'm a firm QSS enjoyer (or rather was), especially back when it still worked against Morde. Used to buy it pretty often. It's biggest problem is frankly the fact that it takes up a spot in your inventory while giving lacklustre stats and that even in midgame it's hard to use it. It only cleanses one CC so it diminishes the chances of being chainstunned very slightly, not worth its price; and that is assuming you'll even remember to use it. It's EXTREMELY hard to remember to use it when you've got less than a quarter of second to remember often times and it isn't as broad-usage as zhonya as "use when in general danger and you've got someone on your ass to save you". Call it a skill issue but in almost every single game I've bought it I died numerous times from cases which could "technically" save me from dying while rooted and such before being able to remember. (And I play dota2 + deadlock every now and then which is way harder on the item front so I shouldn't really forget about it). If I had to make a very drastic change I'd make it so the CC cleanse is ongoing, make it so it cleanses all CC for like a second or two as a miniature Olaf ult, that way you can even use it before CC and won't just get chainstunned in the CC heavy comps this item was made for.
Honestly they should make it that getting cc’; while it’s on cooldown reduces cooldown by x amount, that way when your against a team with tons of cc it has much more uptime making it much more worth it, that or make it be able to hold charges, so like when you get it, it has one use, then every 90 seconds it gets another charge, up to 5 charges
I agree, the way I would put it is that normally there's too much risk for too little reward. It simply takes too much skill, and there're very few places to actually practice using it where you wouldn't be griefing your team. Not to mention that, aside from facing heavy cc comps, you'd only really buy it to avoid throwing a huge lead. But getting that lead is hard to begin with.
I actually just left a comment with a similar idea. QSS just isn't good enough at its intended purpose: protecting you from CC. Like Vars said in the video, you might cleanse one stun and then instantly get hit by another anyway, making QSS kind of useless. I think turning it into a mini olaf ult could be a good idea and make it worth taking into CC heavy team comps. Make it cleanse any CC currently affecting you and make you CC immune for 1 second, giving you a very small window to reposition and get out of the way so you don't just get chain CC'd. However, letting and AD carry fire away with no way of stopping them could be very broken, even if the duration is very short. So I was thinking it should have a downside to using it. Maybe make it so you can't attack during the 1 or 2 second duration it is active. That way, you can't just use it to dps for free with no way for the enemy to shut you down, it has to be used defensively. I don't think it should be an item that every ADC abuses, I think it should stay as a situational item built to counter teams with lots of hard CC, or one champ with extremely threatening CC, like Malzahar or Leona.
my guy, frozen heart gave really poor stats for occupying a slot, but because the passive was so good, people would buy it anyways Also league design in general is just too focused on making every itme an a statstick with some passives, that may as well be more stats
I think a key part of QSS that was overlooked is that it is a niche item. It exists as a band-aid that doesn't solve a problem thats already underway, but for giving a player with a quick enough reaction time to potentially outplay. If a niche item was good and popular, it wouldn't be niche. If you saw qss item every game as a counter to cc, they'd have to buff the cc spells to compensate. Then it becomes a tax rather than a choice, meaning there was never a decision in the first place. You get a situation where niche items are a tax rather than a choice. Kind of how flash basically takes the place of one summoner spell slot already.
fimbul is fantastic on the right champions that can proc the shield often. Poppy in particular is a standout. When I buy it, the mana is just a nice bonus, the shielding is what I get it for. It can provide a huge boost to sustainability in extended engagements. And with the recent damage nerf, it's only gotten stronger for that.
Qss, is because everyone assumes support goes mikaels instead. It only fails vs the niche suppressions. Fimbulwinter fails because some tank champs don't even use mana. Those that do, tend to not lane they jungle. Those that jungle tend to go bami first. Those that do lane tend to lane vs % hp damage. So it hurts. Abyssal isn't built often because you can't stack the debuff and everyone assumes the 1 tank will build it. So it isn't built unless he does. Etc.
I think they should stay in. They are heavily situational, but do allow for other builds. Hell, fimbulwinter is actually meta on veigar right now, and i usually build it on my tank malphite or blitzcrank. They could probably use adjustments, but i like them. Especially quicksilver sash on heavy cc teams.
As someone with a ton of time in both dota and league the combination of tenacity, cdr and the fact that it's a long cooldown with only one use basically invalidates its existence as a useful item. But they've essentially pigeonholed it into things being this way, if a juggernaut or ADC had even a short duration of immunity or even if cleansed and then gave a temp spell/cc shield after like Mundo passive to actually be decent and give great value league players would throw a fit... Even though I think it would be great for the game and would encourage build diversity for assassins and mages so that instead of their bust getting eaten, now they may go cdr-focused builds to play around it or play a mind game to get it on cooldown.
Abyssal Mask helping the builder deal more damage is merely a side effect to its real purpose, which is to empower your team. A Tank is essentially a supportive type of class, whose CC and disruption exists to hinder the enemy team while empowering your own team. If you are a tank, in a team comp with AP allies fighting against AP enemies then Abyssal Mask is still good. Its just niche, and generally people are selfish and don't pick tanks, or build them right when they do.
I only ever built QSS (And also Mercury Scimitar) in ARAM against an incredibly CC heavy team (forgot the exact comp, but like Morgana, Zyra, Leona). It did not help survive. The cooldown of the abilities was too long, and even so, often a 0.5 hard CC would be enough to be caught out and jumped on by the entire team.
If Ingenious Hunter was still in the game, I would probably buy it more often on ARAM. Ingenious was so damn good. But yeah, you're better off taking Cleanse in ARAM (Which is a coin flip in of itself, enemy team could have no to little CC) as long as you don't want Ghost, Exhaust, or Ignite over it.
i do buy qss once in a while. it is a really important item on Shen against nocturne, because it removes his ult debuff, so you can still ult. i miss silvermere dawn.
Love this video! Im an Old Galio main...to me, some items gave more stats to champs that wanted the stats due to Riot not buffing base number and scalings. However, after the reworks to not just Galio but the game as a whole, the numbers were tweaked so most champs don't need niche items anymore cause there wasn't a need. There was a time when Vlad and Galio rushed Spirit Visage to get the same power spike but used [misused] different stats on that item.
I remember once getting QSS with Cleanse on AD TF against a team that was Mordekaiser, Warwick, Lux, Ashe, Morgana. I would run into CC on purpose and was able to absorb and negate so much pressure from the ennemy team that every teamfight was a stomp.
QSS is such an interesting item to me, as someone who plays other Mobas, specifically Smite, where the equivalent there, beads is essentially a Summ Spell, and is an absolutely must take every game
im a gragas player and i build abyssal mask quite often. usually my builds are either full AP or like a bruiser style with Cosmic Drive and Lich bane with Abyssal afterwards if i need MR or if i have an AP carry on my team
It was incredibly underrated, Riot made it actually very cost efficient and it was the only alternative to Maw (whose shield is unreliable), while having a free cleanse was actually strong vs lots of comps
One thing you over looked is having items with a niche use, allows for a lot of player skill expression. Of course generically good/strong items will be more consistent more often, but it takes a knowledgeable/skilled player to know the 1 out 10 games where niche item will make the difference. Items are intended to be partially reactive purchases, so as long as they have some use for a reasonable amount of games, I think they are valuable enough to keep in the system (or get buffs if they start to get too weak).
oooo I would love an episode like this but with watchful wardstone. as a support player, I almost never build or see it. also, zeke's convergance. unless you have a rell on your team, you're never seeing this. (and even then, rell has better items she can build)
the funny thing with finmblewinter and abysal mask is that there was a time where both were seen mor often. When Abyssal still gave mana it wasn´t that rare to see a core or fimble, abyssal and frozen heart on champs like Ornn or Poppy
Abyssal mask is extremely underrated. It doesn't just amp your damage. It amps your entire team's damage. If I have a strong AP carry on my team, and I'm playing a frontliner, I will always be looking to build it. It's a free cryptbloom for my AP carries, and it amps my own damage too.
I think the best of the abyssal was when it has eternity passive, like it was also very good when playing tank v.s. AP, you wouldn't have problems with mana during laning
I only use QSS well after Wit's End has been built. At that point, it's not about the cleanse but rather the MR. Mercurial Scimitar becomes viable after Wit's End is built if an excessive amount of MR is necessary.
Abyssal mask is amazing if you have an ap heavy team and the enemy team has started stacking MR. Fimbulwinter is really good in aram where it stacks quickly and tanks often outlive and heal more than recover mana. Its also a core item of Taric who needs the extra thousand mana to fight properly.
To me it's what you mentioned about being hit after If you're channeling, the stun did its work by stopping the channeling Or in teamfights even if you cancel a single stun, in a lot of cases there's still more cc waiting for you so it isn't worth to waste a whole item just to make no difference
Abyssal mask is ma fav item tbh, along side with unending despair, i nearly always build abyssal on gwen even if there is no ap aganist me, the 30% mr shred is just that good
Ive usually loved what abyssal mask does. I love the current passive. A sort of tankish supportish item. Built it on ww to help my mid and apc carry, and it worked insanely well.
An easy way to make qss a viable, and a really good, item is to make it give the same effect BUT as a window of time: "when used you become invulnerable to ccs for x seconds". So you can use it in both ways (preventively or reactively) and it becomes useful against a heavy cc team. Of course it would be really strong so the active should last just few seconds (2 or 3 max) and the cool down should be really high like the Zhonia's one.
What about Mikael's ? It serves the same purpose as qss and being played more. Is it because the support has to buy it, which is less reliant on items. Or because the item gives other value aside from active (like useful stats). Or is it because the active also heals, which still gives value even if you're not countering cc. And if you are, it negates some of the dmg of the cc ability.
Maybe if the item activated automatically would provide a better utility option, but that would overlap with another item with a similar effect that I cannot remember its name
QSS, but other items as well, basicly require a team for the value to overshadow the cost. In SoloQ, if you play as MF and get hit by a Morgana Q, you are getting abandoned by your team. Either they run or they basicly just use you as a neat shield, while they engage. With a coordinated team however, if you get hit by a morgana Q, everyone is rushing to save you, because you are an indispensible part of the team. At that point, QSS can and will have much more effect than any other item you could have bought.
QSS needs a shielding component to it. The getting bursted down part of being CC'ed is certainly the most damning case against getting QSS. The other items still feel like they are worth sticking in the game as they are even if unpopular. Abyssal Mask is particularly useful in the ARAM case where you can't choose which champions are on the team directly and happen to have a team with 4 or 5 prominent magic damage champs. At that point, the MR shredding is literally a win condition since the enemies will naturally shut the team down by building MR. The main thing holding Abyssal Mask back in Summoner's Rift is the fact that AP carry bot isn't really a thing as there are many harassment opportunities missed when not doing big damage with autoattacks down there. As for Fimbulwinter, spammable shields are really useful against health shredding in general, which is especially prominent on the champs who have no shields in their kit. Armor and MR will eventually be mitigated by the enemy with armor/mr penetration. Yet it's much rarer for enemies to counteract shielding. You can't NOT get health on a tank, cause then you wouldn't be a tank anymore, e.g. Malphite building full AP and no health isn't a tank. So might as well have spammable shields to prevent getting completely overwhelmed by health shredding burst, it's at least a lot more spammable than Locket of Iron Solari is. Fimbulwinter in particular is useful against health chunking burst, think VI's vault breaker, Ornn's brittle proc, and Evelynn's E. Since Fimbulwinter is the stalling sort of tank item, it's better used against enemies who don't do well in long fights. Definitely not the best rush item though, as tear of the goddess is designed to be a good item to stall from upgrading in the first place.
Thought about buying qss vs amumu since he can chain CC you for like 6 seconds. but the thing is: he has 3 separate CCs. even if you purge the first CC really fast, the impact of qss is still minimal cause you stilll eat all his other CCs and still feel like youre chainstunned forever.
the moment i realised what abyssal does, i build it always at some point on champs like cho or tahm, they are basically ap tanks scaling with health, and both of their builds i make is heartsteel into riftmaker, then abyssal at some point, since in late game having only rift as ap item i reach over 200 ap easily thanks to heartsteel, and not only that, since it works like black cleaver, it stacks with magic pen stats, so if you build it, not only you help yourself, but you also help your entire team that deals magic damage, with that item you turn your 40% magic pen void staff veigar ally build into 65% magic pen veigar build, which is massive
As an aram player Fimbulwinter and Abyssal mask (a bit less so) are much easier to utilize; the former stacks faster in aram, the latter is more usable at all times given it's a constant 5v5, so long as you have some magic damage in your comp
I just think Riot doesn't know what to do with Abyssal Mask, it's an item with tons of strange changes on each season and/or splits, putting out interesting passives it had before, and Fimbulwinter i feel it's underrated, mixed up with some items for mana or/and ability haste with champs with so many cc on their abilities can be very helpful to long teamfights and sustain. And not only with abilities, items with passives beeing able to aply slows and exhaust can proc Fimbulwinter's passive
QSS could have a lower cost (like 600 g) with no stats, build into some different stat options (for each role) and then be used as a niche option once upgraded, causing temporary CC immunity for like 2 seconds. The possibikity of countering a CC chain may make 90 sec a good CD.
Abyssal is busted for Rumble in lane in a magic versus, because rumble scale very hard on magic reduction + penetration boots. But late game it falls off : rumble can't tank the focus he would receive to proc the mask.
Fimble winter is very under appreciated. It’s the best source to block true damage in the game. As shields are your only real counter option. I would also argue that fimble, unending despair, and spirit visage are the cheapest and strongest spike in the game for being a tank. You essentially double or quadruple your effective hp. In some circumstances you go infinite and cannot die if they can’t deal with your healing and shielding. So while some items are not the best or most powerful. The synergy can outperform and multiply with itself such as crit does the more you build it with attack speed and damage. I believe Riot should keep items and add more. So we always have more combinations to experiment with. Even if those items are lack luster individually.
I liked building Mask on Tahm top, myself. While it felt really good being super bulky, while also increasing my L I C K damage. I would only build it if fighting a mostly ap team though, since I would already be getting Visage, so two MR items would be overkill if the enemy is mostly AD.
Why should i build QSS when i can buy mercury+Steraks/wits ends? Or just buy elixir of iron. They shoud add a boot upgrades to make a QSS. Like Zephyr.?
Fimblewinter is rn one of the best items for Skarner, he really needs mana and more hp, while he can spam his W that is undogable and applies slow, u can proc Fimbel almost nonstop.
"Why no buy these?" **shows Fimbulwinter** Taric: That glimmer of hope you see. That's me. **buys Winter's Approach with full stacked tear in every game**
Qss feels like a significant gold investment for meh stats and a cleanse that isn't as good as cleanse, and then you actually have to remember to use it mid fight.
A fair amount of items you don't see much in Summoner's Rift, are much more common in ARAM, like the tear items. Because of that, I think they should stay.
My issue with QSS will always be that there's nothing offered after it's activation. If it offered a 1.5 second moment of being invulnerable to CC I'd probably buy it 3000% times more often.
@@Felik18 just look at how toxic kai sa is when she builds zhonyas, now imagine if every adc could build it too. legit would be hell for any assassin/skirmisher to kill the adc
i like abyssal mask, but not because i buy it, but because my premade tank player does, if the enemy team has a lot of AP dmg. I'm a katarina main, and he plays a lot of (Sion, Ornn, Tahm, Mundo, Cho) so he cc's and i go in and deal the dmg, and he amps my damage to the enemies, so for us its working great. Also, Fimbulwinter seems pretty strong when someone like a naut or Leona buys it, since they have reliable and easy to hit cc, with low cds, so they can proc it often. not so much on other tanks on toplane, mostly since most of them has easily dodged or interrupted cc, but the support tanks can become monsters For QSS, its mostly because riot keep removing ways for it to be useful. First with the zed ult (which is fair, imo) and then all of the sudden because mordekaiser players cry about their ult, it can't even remove that, so there are rarely any uses anymore, tbh. Even with suppressions from WW and Malz, people are often quick to instantly jump the ww/malz because they know they are also vulnerable while doing it.
Qss is very niche no matter what season we look at, it either useful cause the mord or malz is running amuck or it’s just an added and expensive stat boost
Fimbulwinter is good on mana hungry tanks who have heals or shields in their kit. Poppy, sion, volibear, tahm kench, maokai, taric (if you wanna get funky) udyr, ksante, skarner (but then youre playing skarner). As heal and shields in a kit extend tanking ability and allow you to cycle the shields and heals, leading to the enemy burnint through a lot more resources to make their damage stick through healing or time it around shield spams. Poppy voli sion kench and udyr are probably the best users since poppy gets bonus tank stats from W, the other 4 have both heals AND shields and all 5 can run shield bash revitalize. It has its place
To me, as an ADC player, unless I’m facing a malzahar, if I need to QSS to cleanse a CC it means I’m already too deep into the fight/got caught, that I’m gonna be blown up anyway regardless.
For my honest opinion. I love Abyssal for the reason that my Seju goes really hard with it, while still deal a ton of dmg and stay tanky. Fimble winter is another loved item for me mainly the way how I play lane with "small trades then go in" style. Yet pretty much you just said why this items are so....well niche. But thats why love them. For my its give me a strange sense of power that I can abuse them for my benefit one way or another....OR I'm just crazy...
The very nature of Abyssal mask makes it only valid if you purchase it as a third item, as it cannot be a core item and has a "scaling" useage with the amount of mages your team has. I play it every now and then with Rell and it is very useful for her, - if - the team comp is mage heavy as it synergies well with her passive and the cc. Otherwise it doesn't has much use.
Cant speak from someone who builds this more than in ARAM, but i spam ADC's there and the CC denial might not be critical, but the item still gives MR, DMG, Crit and Lifesteal, which not only improves your chances of surviving the burst, but being able to fight back. Some items such as QSS ADC's dont buy them cause they think DMG is the only thing that matters, when in reality, if you get bursted down, you deal nothing. Sometimes is not even about surviving, if they are focusing you down 1 or 2 off-tank items wont save you, but here is my take: If they cant kill you in one rotation, they are forced to over commit to get the result, which still plays into your team advantage, be a team player, build for the match, not the wiki's recommended, and you will climb.
Theres no armor version of qss, theres so much cc in the game and it can come from physical damage, people rather build the armor or health on a tank top to at least try to last longer, and adc getting qss against each other does actually help against the ad damage only.
On abysal though it fills a very specific niche thats nice when you need it. A way to cut through mr while building mr and hp. Its the same argument you said in the video, but you didnt mention it. It gives nice stats for bruisers while also giving a decent bit of defensive stats and pen for all allies and all your damage. Also, its quite cheap, putting it in as a 3rd to 4th item is very effective. I think it is just underutilized atm, not underpowered.
They'll just do a Monkey's Paw thing. We asked for an AP shield busting item for so long, then we got it and it was pre-adjusted Shadowflame which was just, if the enemy was recently shielded, you got max flat magic pen against them which was worthless.
to be fair with current amount of tenacity you can get just from items(you just buy boots+wits end or steraks and done) and very limited duration of qss this item use cases are limited to like 5 champions out of the whole roster and it's not cost efficient stat wise as well. Also plenty of dangerous cc spells are skillshots so it further diminishes it's value(movespeed boost alongside cc removal on it's upgrade looks more valuable imo ideally it would have been better if it got some smaller/shorter in duration movespeed boost). At this rate it's kinda better and cheaper to buy mercs or cloak from wit's end for example. And you don't always need mr from qss so item is extremely situational,especially when you factor in cleanse which is almost the same except being free.Or I'd rather have pocket sivir spellshield with shorter window to make it like spell parry/deflect something
One people don’t run math otherwise I am pretty sure that fimbul winter has both amazing stats for its cost and a very solid passive while getting you quickly to a legendary item passive, not to mention it’s synergy with other tank items like spirit visage, most people probably also don’t know how hard sunfire items suck, when they could just sit on bamis cinder and go for other tank items, which means fimbul winter goes more into the background cause people think they want the full sunfire. 2 QSS is usually hyper situational, since ranged carried can just play most situations a bit better mechanically and live. On melee Carrie’s it can be an ok option if your champ is hard countered by certain ccs, like yone playing into renata, who murders Auto autoatackers. Abyssal mask is great defensive option for builds with high pen, going malignance, pen boots. Abyssal on things like anivia; fiddle, swain etc. if you run math on the regular, you will know it gets you out of the true dmg threshhold of magic dmg and denies a lot of flat pen pretty quickly. (Atm it is 15times 3+ 40% of someone’s mr, which is 20 of a lategame squishy and 16-18 of a midgame one.)
i mainly play volibear and I love building fimblewinter after getting my second item. I usually build tear first to help me stay in fights longer early game
On AD Udyr, I find myself running QSS and building Merc Scimitar against particular jungle matchups like Skarner or against a midlane Hwei that I'm trying to get at to cleanse his fear or slow on the ult.
~SPONSOR~ Start the new split strong with a good duo partner through Tapin! share.tapin.gg/VARS Best of luck on your third climb of the year X_X
We gonna talk about Danny_ the polish challenger?
Tapin deez nutz gottem
that is just duo boost wtf lmao
@@parapeitovoador2969 "If you don't have friends just pay" app
great intro song chosen
Abyssal mask was actually a very good item before the last change, but then they decided to just give it the biggest nerf on the entire nerf roster
it was a ner it needed, it was extremely gold effecient, in reality pre nerf abysal mask should have been like 3200 gold, it was literally on the level of the old mythic items all for 2500 gold, it was fucking insanely op for how cheap it was, post nerf is still good, you just have to buy it for specific reason now
@@douglaswalker7707 so the reason is never, it wasnt necesary to enterily remove the mr passive, just reduce it from 9 per target to 5 or 4 and that would have been great
@@lapusso3704 you are literally just wrong, a team wide 30 percent boost in magic damage, plus being able to get up to 100 mr, all from a 2500 gold item was fucking absurdlely broken, and you 100 percent can still buy the item for specific reason, still gives a nice amount of hp and mr for cheap, and it improves you and your teams damage by 30 percent, still a strong item, was absolutely broken before
@@douglaswalker7707 quite literally impossible to get 100 if you are getting 9 per champion and theres only 5 of them on the enemy team, again reducing the thing to 5 o even 3 per champion couls be totally fine.
@@hanshysher6266 I think they included it's normal MR too
Qss is basically an item that you build if you see malzahar on the enemy team and that's it
Warwick, Urgot, Ashe, Morgana also have honorable mentions. Sure, you can take cleanse into ashe, but morg can just lock you down anyway, and Warwick and Urgot both have suppression ultimates. Being able to QSS Urgot's execute is gigantic, albeit you're not building the proper stat against him.
Not JUST Malz, but he's definitely the first that comes to mind
@@ceetee3370Ashe R and Morgs Q have slow moving abilities, buying ms is a better counter then qss imo
@@youngshmurda4233 not saying you're wrong, and its all situationally dependant. Am I playing sivir? Im never buying qss unless im bm'ing. Am I playing jhin? I might pick it up if the map is dark as shit and they have an ashe/morgana.
Excuse me if im wrong but I thought it didn’t cleanse suppression
in wild rift qss is an enchantment for boots and you don't have to spend a whole slot for it. i think if that was the case for league people would buy qss more often
1. Poor vigilant wardstone got forgotten again :,( 2. Abyssal mask is secret op with galio
Its still good on Amumu, Udyr, Maokai and some others
Zac
Abyssal is good on all the magic tanks, good vs heavy ap team, good with fed scale mage like cassio or multiple mages, good in aram in general, this item was so secretly op for a long time and is still very strong
Yeah abyssal is good if you have a fed AP teammate or more, or really it's good on most magic damage tanks
wish they'd just revert it to the % stats again, i actually bought it on multiple champs. But now even if i play supp i never buy it
Vars: "tanks aren't known for doing damage"
K'Sante: "Let me introduce myself"
Garen: *exists*
I hate how they changed him so long ago.
@@BrianWalker93 Garen is a fighter, he is basically a demacian darius
@@BrianWalker93he.... He is a bruiser
Ornn :"am I a joke to you?"
@@megumin9020 He wasn't originally. Before he was the most basic tank to ever tank. He was baby's first tank. Low, but reliable damage and lots of sticking power to body block shots
Let’s be real here you bought qss for mord ult
Then mord ult got bufffed and I’ve never seen it since
Not surprised he didn’t talk about Serpent’s Fang. No one remembers Serpent’s Fang exists because the only times to NEED to build it are reserved for hyper-specific team comps
That item needs Attack Speed on it, so that ADCs can make use of it.
i find it wild that both items that dealt with shields are gone
sometimes i have to sacrifice a whole item slot with Serpent's Fang because no one wants to build it. in an aram against a seraphine, an orianna and a sett, shield reduction would be awesome, but the item's stats are just so... sad. so there goes me, the yuumi, the milio, building Serpent's Fang just to tone down the efficiency of shields by like... 33% or however much it is.
@@racoonmaster5713 its 50% 💀literally kills half the shield champs in the game for 2500 gold
It is a pretty good counter item for Yorick since he can apply the debuff from a pretty safe distance thanks to his ghouls but other than that it isn't really all that useful
The mobile game Wild Rift actually fixes the QSS issue I think (and actually holds a huge part in its current meta). In Wild Rift, tier 2 boots can be further upgraded to include an active effect, similar to League actives on items, just with no added stat bonuses. Wild Rift’s QSS is on a much shorter cooldown at a cheaper price without sacrificing an item slot. This also means it can be built on a lot more champions.
I think having a boot upgrade would be a good idea (or maybe bringing back boot augments, from years ago). Like, currently, Berserker's Greaves can upgrade into Zephy, so maybe Merc Treads can upgrade into QSS? Maybe give it 2 charges as its active for cleansing CC, meaning it could retain a long potential cooldown but also allow players to have it up when they need it if they plan well.
That boots active like zin zhao ult is si cheeze on blitz, Hook, punch then boots push them to tower, while ADC doing free hits during all those animations.
Also, if there's no supress, everyone just buy zhonyas boots, it's a system that just replaces old annoyance with new ones.
Such a great idea on the mercs upgrade holy shit.@@maybenaught
QSS in Wild Rift also gives you CC IMMUNITY for 0.75 seconds, meaning you can pre-QSS before you get hit by a CC or you can QSS your current CC and not get chain CC'd if you time it right.
That is huge cause you don't have to be extremely precise on the QSS timing or you can be extremely precise and use QSS on multiple CCs coming your way.
@@maskeddood u mean, I can survive full build both morgana & lux Q's as 69 HP adc?
14:22 they're not pointless they just have very specific uses. The letter z is only in 2.5% of words but we still need it in the alphabet just like how qss is super niche but very useful for the right situation
This. It feels like some people think if something isn't picked every game then it's never picked
My climb is going amazing. Booted up the game then closed before I hit the que. Very proud of my progress.
You're gonna be challenger in touching grass in no time if you keep up that momentum!
If you Keep up this, in no time you will achieve INNER PEACE ✌️🕊️
I’ve been saying for a while that Qss should give like 2 seconds of cc immunity and like 20% tenacity, meaning you can pop it preemptily, and you can tank multiple cc’s while also giving tenacity by itself.
Wild Rift's QSS boot enchant gives 0.75 seconds of CC immunity, so you don't have to be as precise with it. That means that you can pre-QSS if you know you are about to get hit by a CC or you can time it right so you QSS your current CC and eat another CC in the 0.75 seconds of CC immunity.
Then What is your counterplay agains champions like Master Yi or Tryndamere? 2 second is too long for them.
@@kadrikarakoc807 well could be adjusted to last for a shorter duration like the other guy said.
@@kadrikarakoc807 Them wasting 1300 gold on an item without any relevant stats and doesn't build into anything good?
@@kadrikarakoc807 Don't instantly use your cc on them, and actually think about how you need to use the cc before you dumping literally every kind of cc into them.
Order of events:
1. Champs with really good, possibly meta-defining CC for pro play get added (like Mordekaiser)
2. To avoid those champs dominating pro, they add QSS to counter them
3. Because pros know about QSS, the champs it counters never get picked in pro as they would be useless
4. Item and the champs it counters never show up in pro
5. People in ranked don't even know it exists or don't want to build it
6. Item never shows up in ranked
Ultimate result: Item is simultaneously extremely strong and also literally never seen anywhere.
Fimblewinter is what every good tanky support builds, as soon as you get 400 gold in lane you back and grab the first part of item and let it build up, focus on building your second item to be more useful and by the time you get 360 stacks you should have enough gold to have one item already completed and enough to finish this one and get insta upgrade from basic version to Fimblewinter
I play a lot of Poppy support and I honestly completely forgot this item was unpopular because this is always my 2nd or 3rd item
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox I don't know if you have enough gold for it by the end of the game (I'm an ARAM player nowadays so I'm super out of the loop on how fast you get gold on SR), but do you ever go Eclipse too? My friend whenever he gets Poppy on ARAM goes Eclipse into Fimbul, those combined with the passive shield, it makes it really difficult to kill Poppy and she does quite a lot of damage on top of that.
I used to love fimbulwinter, but it just doesn't have the stats you need to use it.
jarvan support wit fimbul is rlly fun
as a taric player, fimbul is a must have
Abyssal mask was great, the armor penetration of the void staff on an area bigger than ranged basic attacks and gave you mr, until the inflation came
Hourglass: You press it, and you get guaranteed invulnerability time. Maybe you get bursted down immediately after, but you have guaranteed your time.
QSS: You press it, and if you press it at exactly the right time (and thus cooldowns - oh look you're a mage you like that), you negate a second, or maybe even 2, of CC... If you don't get hit by another one immediately thereafter. You are guaranteed nothing, and the full onus is on you to press it correctly, and only after all CC has already been used on you. The variance is too high to be worth the cost relative to the stats it gives.
It diverts too much attention from your other tasks for very little gain. Like compared to Hourglass for example, it gives you invulnerability for a significant amount of time provided if you activate it at the right moment. Which means not only you get away from the CC part of the spell you also avoid the damage that comes with it.
Compared to its equivalent in DotA it's also bad. BKB gives you 4 seconds of magic immunity upon activation. It's so impactful that the late game it often revolves around baiting the enemy carries to waste their BKB. Or Linken sphere. It's basically a Malzahar passive that you can buy except it's even better because it's only activated if you are targeted by a point and click spell and the upgraded version will even reflect the spell back at the user. Which means both of these items not only block the status effects inflicted on you but also the damage. QSS only blocks the CC and not the damage you're still getting a chunk of your health removed in the late game. Not to mention the other two they both provide bonus health which are useful stats regardless of your class.
QSS is just just bad overall. It takes too much attention from you to do a mediocre job.
@@minhducnguyen9276 Basically
Riots point with removing qss interactions is that it feels bad for certain characters that they can be denied. But my point is feels WAY WORSE to be the person who is being turbo bullied by point and click one shots and and EVEN WORSE the only way to defend yourself is buying a 1300 gold item that doesn't turn into any good items.
qss is on a 90 sec cd i beleive. Mord ult def gets lowr then that. and then he can just not target u lol.
@@reginaldkelly7809imo I'm less so worried about mord because even though his ulti is point and click you can kite him inside it. Moreso talking about Phreak saying he wants to remove the qss interaction on Malz r like they did for mord r.
@@KeylowRowC Then he would make MF ult able to change direction like Vel Ult
Name 3 point and click oneshots
@@zaferoph Vladimir Charged Q, Veigar R and Evelynn stealth E
Well, the only thing it was used for was evading Malzahar and Mordekaiser, (ADC's would buy it 90% of the time if there was a mord on the enemy team) and now Mordekaiser R cannot be cleansed so it lost nearly all its functionality.
Edge of Night for ADC's or Banshee's Veil for AP... Morde's pull and bash are telegraphed... so unless you have low mobility he essentially can do nothing to you and in case he hits a pull, you can retreat immediately... and chill until your shield is back up...
@@aoisora1445 That works, unless if morde takes ghost that is also a big problem.
I'm a firm QSS enjoyer (or rather was), especially back when it still worked against Morde. Used to buy it pretty often.
It's biggest problem is frankly the fact that it takes up a spot in your inventory while giving lacklustre stats and that even in midgame it's hard to use it. It only cleanses one CC so it diminishes the chances of being chainstunned very slightly, not worth its price; and that is assuming you'll even remember to use it. It's EXTREMELY hard to remember to use it when you've got less than a quarter of second to remember often times and it isn't as broad-usage as zhonya as "use when in general danger and you've got someone on your ass to save you". Call it a skill issue but in almost every single game I've bought it I died numerous times from cases which could "technically" save me from dying while rooted and such before being able to remember. (And I play dota2 + deadlock every now and then which is way harder on the item front so I shouldn't really forget about it).
If I had to make a very drastic change I'd make it so the CC cleanse is ongoing, make it so it cleanses all CC for like a second or two as a miniature Olaf ult, that way you can even use it before CC and won't just get chainstunned in the CC heavy comps this item was made for.
Honestly they should make it that getting cc’; while it’s on cooldown reduces cooldown by x amount, that way when your against a team with tons of cc it has much more uptime making it much more worth it, that or make it be able to hold charges, so like when you get it, it has one use, then every 90 seconds it gets another charge, up to 5 charges
I agree, the way I would put it is that normally there's too much risk for too little reward.
It simply takes too much skill, and there're very few places to actually practice using it where you wouldn't be griefing your team.
Not to mention that, aside from facing heavy cc comps, you'd only really buy it to avoid throwing a huge lead. But getting that lead is hard to begin with.
But it's useless against mordekaiser
I actually just left a comment with a similar idea. QSS just isn't good enough at its intended purpose: protecting you from CC. Like Vars said in the video, you might cleanse one stun and then instantly get hit by another anyway, making QSS kind of useless. I think turning it into a mini olaf ult could be a good idea and make it worth taking into CC heavy team comps. Make it cleanse any CC currently affecting you and make you CC immune for 1 second, giving you a very small window to reposition and get out of the way so you don't just get chain CC'd. However, letting and AD carry fire away with no way of stopping them could be very broken, even if the duration is very short. So I was thinking it should have a downside to using it. Maybe make it so you can't attack during the 1 or 2 second duration it is active. That way, you can't just use it to dps for free with no way for the enemy to shut you down, it has to be used defensively. I don't think it should be an item that every ADC abuses, I think it should stay as a situational item built to counter teams with lots of hard CC, or one champ with extremely threatening CC, like Malzahar or Leona.
my guy, frozen heart gave really poor stats for occupying a slot, but because the passive was so good, people would buy it anyways
Also league design in general is just too focused on making every itme an a statstick with some passives, that may as well be more stats
I think a key part of QSS that was overlooked is that it is a niche item. It exists as a band-aid that doesn't solve a problem thats already underway, but for giving a player with a quick enough reaction time to potentially outplay.
If a niche item was good and popular, it wouldn't be niche. If you saw qss item every game as a counter to cc, they'd have to buff the cc spells to compensate.
Then it becomes a tax rather than a choice, meaning there was never a decision in the first place. You get a situation where niche items are a tax rather than a choice. Kind of how flash basically takes the place of one summoner spell slot already.
Silvermere Dawn my beloved, how I miss you
fimbul is fantastic on the right champions that can proc the shield often. Poppy in particular is a standout. When I buy it, the mana is just a nice bonus, the shielding is what I get it for. It can provide a huge boost to sustainability in extended engagements. And with the recent damage nerf, it's only gotten stronger for that.
Qss, is because everyone assumes support goes mikaels instead. It only fails vs the niche suppressions.
Fimbulwinter fails because some tank champs don't even use mana. Those that do, tend to not lane they jungle. Those that jungle tend to go bami first. Those that do lane tend to lane vs % hp damage. So it hurts.
Abyssal isn't built often because you can't stack the debuff and everyone assumes the 1 tank will build it. So it isn't built unless he does. Etc.
I think they should stay in. They are heavily situational, but do allow for other builds. Hell, fimbulwinter is actually meta on veigar right now, and i usually build it on my tank malphite or blitzcrank. They could probably use adjustments, but i like them. Especially quicksilver sash on heavy cc teams.
9:01 "you can use someone as a human shield"
(Shows 2 abilities where that wouldn't work)
The KH music eas unexpected but welcome
I like how he's playing The 13th Reflection in the back of the video, favorite theme of mine.
As someone with a ton of time in both dota and league the combination of tenacity, cdr and the fact that it's a long cooldown with only one use basically invalidates its existence as a useful item. But they've essentially pigeonholed it into things being this way, if a juggernaut or ADC had even a short duration of immunity or even if cleansed and then gave a temp spell/cc shield after like Mundo passive to actually be decent and give great value league players would throw a fit... Even though I think it would be great for the game and would encourage build diversity for assassins and mages so that instead of their bust getting eaten, now they may go cdr-focused builds to play around it or play a mind game to get it on cooldown.
Abyssal Mask helping the builder deal more damage is merely a side effect to its real purpose, which is to empower your team. A Tank is essentially a supportive type of class, whose CC and disruption exists to hinder the enemy team while empowering your own team. If you are a tank, in a team comp with AP allies fighting against AP enemies then Abyssal Mask is still good. Its just niche, and generally people are selfish and don't pick tanks, or build them right when they do.
I miss when they gave Abyssal Mask the Eternity passive from Catalyst of Aeons. For a single patch. And then removed it again.
It was the best version of the item ngl
remind me what that passive was
@@shieldgenerator7 same as rod of ages eternity passive it gaves you hp per mana spent
@@shieldgenerator7 Same as Rod of Ages Eternity passive, gain 25% of Mana spent as healing and 8% of damage taken as Mana
I only ever built QSS (And also Mercury Scimitar) in ARAM against an incredibly CC heavy team (forgot the exact comp, but like Morgana, Zyra, Leona). It did not help survive. The cooldown of the abilities was too long, and even so, often a 0.5 hard CC would be enough to be caught out and jumped on by the entire team.
If Ingenious Hunter was still in the game, I would probably buy it more often on ARAM. Ingenious was so damn good. But yeah, you're better off taking Cleanse in ARAM (Which is a coin flip in of itself, enemy team could have no to little CC) as long as you don't want Ghost, Exhaust, or Ignite over it.
Put qss on boots. as in, a new choice of boots that build out of regular shoes + qss. it just gives movement speed and the qss active
I dont think that many people have problems using qss in time. most of the time you can anticipate the cc spell
Video start at 2:13
i do buy qss once in a while. it is a really important item on Shen against nocturne, because it removes his ult debuff, so you can still ult. i miss silvermere dawn.
Love this video!
Im an Old Galio main...to me, some items gave more stats to champs that wanted the stats due to Riot not buffing base number and scalings.
However, after the reworks to not just Galio but the game as a whole, the numbers were tweaked so most champs don't need niche items anymore cause there wasn't a need.
There was a time when Vlad and Galio rushed Spirit Visage to get the same power spike but used [misused] different stats on that item.
I remember once getting QSS with Cleanse on AD TF against a team that was Mordekaiser, Warwick, Lux, Ashe, Morgana.
I would run into CC on purpose and was able to absorb and negate so much pressure from the ennemy team that every teamfight was a stomp.
QSS is such an interesting item to me, as someone who plays other Mobas, specifically Smite, where the equivalent there, beads is essentially a Summ Spell, and is an absolutely must take every game
im a gragas player and i build abyssal mask quite often. usually my builds are either full AP or like a bruiser style with Cosmic Drive and Lich bane with Abyssal afterwards if i need MR or if i have an AP carry on my team
Poppy actually loves fimbulwinter, combine with her passive and sundered healing and she just LIVES. Great video
Nice Kingdom Hearts soundtrack in the background
Silvermere dawn was really a good item but Riot removed it because hardly anyone ever bought it
It was incredibly underrated, Riot made it actually very cost efficient and it was the only alternative to Maw (whose shield is unreliable), while having a free cleanse was actually strong vs lots of comps
@@thomasb5307 Lasting slow resist and tenacity after the cleanse too😭
One thing you over looked is having items with a niche use, allows for a lot of player skill expression. Of course generically good/strong items will be more consistent more often, but it takes a knowledgeable/skilled player to know the 1 out 10 games where niche item will make the difference. Items are intended to be partially reactive purchases, so as long as they have some use for a reasonable amount of games, I think they are valuable enough to keep in the system (or get buffs if they start to get too weak).
oooo I would love an episode like this but with watchful wardstone. as a support player, I almost never build or see it.
also, zeke's convergance. unless you have a rell on your team, you're never seeing this. (and even then, rell has better items she can build)
I like zeke’s on thresh it combos into his ult very nicely. I used to build it on rakan too but ap is so much better for him now
the funny thing with finmblewinter and abysal mask is that there was a time where both were seen mor often. When Abyssal still gave mana it wasn´t that rare to see a core or fimble, abyssal and frozen heart on champs like Ornn or Poppy
Abyssal mask is extremely underrated.
It doesn't just amp your damage. It amps your entire team's damage. If I have a strong AP carry on my team, and I'm playing a frontliner, I will always be looking to build it. It's a free cryptbloom for my AP carries, and it amps my own damage too.
I think the best of the abyssal was when it has eternity passive, like it was also very good when playing tank v.s. AP, you wouldn't have problems with mana during laning
I only use QSS well after Wit's End has been built. At that point, it's not about the cleanse but rather the MR. Mercurial Scimitar becomes viable after Wit's End is built if an excessive amount of MR is necessary.
vars from persona to kingdom hearts your background music always slap
Abyssal mask is amazing if you have an ap heavy team and the enemy team has started stacking MR. Fimbulwinter is really good in aram where it stacks quickly and tanks often outlive and heal more than recover mana. Its also a core item of Taric who needs the extra thousand mana to fight properly.
To me it's what you mentioned about being hit after
If you're channeling, the stun did its work by stopping the channeling
Or in teamfights even if you cancel a single stun, in a lot of cases there's still more cc waiting for you so it isn't worth to waste a whole item just to make no difference
Abyssal mask is ma fav item tbh, along side with unending despair, i nearly always build abyssal on gwen even if there is no ap aganist me, the 30% mr shred is just that good
Ive usually loved what abyssal mask does. I love the current passive. A sort of tankish supportish item. Built it on ww to help my mid and apc carry, and it worked insanely well.
An easy way to make qss a viable, and a really good, item is to make it give the same effect BUT as a window of time: "when used you become invulnerable to ccs for x seconds".
So you can use it in both ways (preventively or reactively) and it becomes useful against a heavy cc team.
Of course it would be really strong so the active should last just few seconds (2 or 3 max) and the cool down should be really high like the Zhonia's one.
What about Mikael's ? It serves the same purpose as qss and being played more. Is it because the support has to buy it, which is less reliant on items. Or because the item gives other value aside from active (like useful stats). Or is it because the active also heals, which still gives value even if you're not countering cc. And if you are, it negates some of the dmg of the cc ability.
also because its much cheaper
Maybe if the item activated automatically would provide a better utility option, but that would overlap with another item with a similar effect that I cannot remember its name
QSS, but other items as well, basicly require a team for the value to overshadow the cost. In SoloQ, if you play as MF and get hit by a Morgana Q, you are getting abandoned by your team. Either they run or they basicly just use you as a neat shield, while they engage.
With a coordinated team however, if you get hit by a morgana Q, everyone is rushing to save you, because you are an indispensible part of the team. At that point, QSS can and will have much more effect than any other item you could have bought.
QSS is the item you build as ADC when you forget to go with cleanse against a heavy lockdown comp
QSS needs a shielding component to it. The getting bursted down part of being CC'ed is certainly the most damning case against getting QSS. The other items still feel like they are worth sticking in the game as they are even if unpopular. Abyssal Mask is particularly useful in the ARAM case where you can't choose which champions are on the team directly and happen to have a team with 4 or 5 prominent magic damage champs. At that point, the MR shredding is literally a win condition since the enemies will naturally shut the team down by building MR. The main thing holding Abyssal Mask back in Summoner's Rift is the fact that AP carry bot isn't really a thing as there are many harassment opportunities missed when not doing big damage with autoattacks down there.
As for Fimbulwinter, spammable shields are really useful against health shredding in general, which is especially prominent on the champs who have no shields in their kit. Armor and MR will eventually be mitigated by the enemy with armor/mr penetration. Yet it's much rarer for enemies to counteract shielding. You can't NOT get health on a tank, cause then you wouldn't be a tank anymore, e.g. Malphite building full AP and no health isn't a tank. So might as well have spammable shields to prevent getting completely overwhelmed by health shredding burst, it's at least a lot more spammable than Locket of Iron Solari is. Fimbulwinter in particular is useful against health chunking burst, think VI's vault breaker, Ornn's brittle proc, and Evelynn's E. Since Fimbulwinter is the stalling sort of tank item, it's better used against enemies who don't do well in long fights. Definitely not the best rush item though, as tear of the goddess is designed to be a good item to stall from upgrading in the first place.
Thought about buying qss vs amumu since he can chain CC you for like 6 seconds. but the thing is: he has 3 separate CCs. even if you purge the first CC really fast, the impact of qss is still minimal cause you stilll eat all his other CCs and still feel like youre chainstunned forever.
the moment i realised what abyssal does, i build it always at some point on champs like cho or tahm, they are basically ap tanks scaling with health, and both of their builds i make is heartsteel into riftmaker, then abyssal at some point, since in late game having only rift as ap item i reach over 200 ap easily thanks to heartsteel, and not only that, since it works like black cleaver, it stacks with magic pen stats, so if you build it, not only you help yourself, but you also help your entire team that deals magic damage, with that item you turn your 40% magic pen void staff veigar ally build into 65% magic pen veigar build, which is massive
As an aram player Fimbulwinter and Abyssal mask (a bit less so) are much easier to utilize; the former stacks faster in aram, the latter is more usable at all times given it's a constant 5v5, so long as you have some magic damage in your comp
Another day I am blessed with an awesome Vars' video . Thanks man !
I just think Riot doesn't know what to do with Abyssal Mask, it's an item with tons of strange changes on each season and/or splits, putting out interesting passives it had before, and Fimbulwinter i feel it's underrated, mixed up with some items for mana or/and ability haste with champs with so many cc on their abilities can be very helpful to long teamfights and sustain. And not only with abilities, items with passives beeing able to aply slows and exhaust can proc Fimbulwinter's passive
QSS could have a lower cost (like 600 g) with no stats, build into some different stat options (for each role) and then be used as a niche option once upgraded, causing temporary CC immunity for like 2 seconds. The possibikity of countering a CC chain may make 90 sec a good CD.
Abyssal is busted for Rumble in lane in a magic versus, because rumble scale very hard on magic reduction + penetration boots.
But late game it falls off : rumble can't tank the focus he would receive to proc the mask.
I wish they made it either a full tank item or an ap version of it (not mikaels), as a xerath player it would be a dream hahah
Zhonyas would still just be better.
Fimbul is really good in ARAM, cause you cant reset for mana, and you basically garantue the bigger shield, cause there is always someone nearby
Fimble winter is very under appreciated. It’s the best source to block true damage in the game. As shields are your only real counter option. I would also argue that fimble, unending despair, and spirit visage are the cheapest and strongest spike in the game for being a tank. You essentially double or quadruple your effective hp. In some circumstances you go infinite and cannot die if they can’t deal with your healing and shielding. So while some items are not the best or most powerful. The synergy can outperform and multiply with itself such as crit does the more you build it with attack speed and damage. I believe Riot should keep items and add more. So we always have more combinations to experiment with. Even if those items are lack luster individually.
I liked building Mask on Tahm top, myself. While it felt really good being super bulky, while also increasing my L I C K damage. I would only build it if fighting a mostly ap team though, since I would already be getting Visage, so two MR items would be overkill if the enemy is mostly AD.
The one memory I have of actually using QSS was when a Warwick jumped on me and then said I was cheating when I cleansed the suppression
Why should i build QSS when i can buy mercury+Steraks/wits ends? Or just buy elixir of iron.
They shoud add a boot upgrades to make a QSS. Like Zephyr.?
QSS should get the Zephyr treatment. Make it be the upgrade to Mercury Treads. Now QSS doesn’t waste an item slot and still fits the MR slot
Fimblewinter is rn one of the best items for Skarner, he really needs mana and more hp, while he can spam his W that is undogable and applies slow, u can proc Fimbel almost nonstop.
"Why no buy these?" **shows Fimbulwinter**
Taric: That glimmer of hope you see. That's me. **buys Winter's Approach with full stacked tear in every game**
Qss feels like a significant gold investment for meh stats and a cleanse that isn't as good as cleanse, and then you actually have to remember to use it mid fight.
11:49 Singed is also a great candidate for this item! he still doesn't build it very often
Qss also lowered in pickrate due to Skarner’s rework. I used to main him and a lot of ADCs would end up buying Qss to stop Skarner R
A fair amount of items you don't see much in Summoner's Rift, are much more common in ARAM, like the tear items. Because of that, I think they should stay.
My issue with QSS will always be that there's nothing offered after it's activation. If it offered a 1.5 second moment of being invulnerable to CC I'd probably buy it 3000% times more often.
If there was an AP QSS item its buy rate would go up as they're the ones that get CC'd and then blown up.
then people would cry that AD champions don't have Zhonya's equivalent
@@Felik18 just look at how toxic kai sa is when she builds zhonyas, now imagine if every adc could build it too. legit would be hell for any assassin/skirmisher to kill the adc
i like abyssal mask, but not because i buy it, but because my premade tank player does, if the enemy team has a lot of AP dmg. I'm a katarina main, and he plays a lot of (Sion, Ornn, Tahm, Mundo, Cho) so he cc's and i go in and deal the dmg, and he amps my damage to the enemies, so for us its working great.
Also, Fimbulwinter seems pretty strong when someone like a naut or Leona buys it, since they have reliable and easy to hit cc, with low cds, so they can proc it often. not so much on other tanks on toplane, mostly since most of them has easily dodged or interrupted cc, but the support tanks can become monsters
For QSS, its mostly because riot keep removing ways for it to be useful. First with the zed ult (which is fair, imo) and then all of the sudden because mordekaiser players cry about their ult, it can't even remove that, so there are rarely any uses anymore, tbh. Even with suppressions from WW and Malz, people are often quick to instantly jump the ww/malz because they know they are also vulnerable while doing it.
Qss is very niche no matter what season we look at, it either useful cause the mord or malz is running amuck or it’s just an added and expensive stat boost
Fimbulwinter is good on mana hungry tanks who have heals or shields in their kit. Poppy, sion, volibear, tahm kench, maokai, taric (if you wanna get funky) udyr, ksante, skarner (but then youre playing skarner). As heal and shields in a kit extend tanking ability and allow you to cycle the shields and heals, leading to the enemy burnint through a lot more resources to make their damage stick through healing or time it around shield spams. Poppy voli sion kench and udyr are probably the best users since poppy gets bonus tank stats from W, the other 4 have both heals AND shields and all 5 can run shield bash revitalize. It has its place
To me, as an ADC player, unless I’m facing a malzahar, if I need to QSS to cleanse a CC it means I’m already too deep into the fight/got caught, that I’m gonna be blown up anyway regardless.
For my honest opinion. I love Abyssal for the reason that my Seju goes really hard with it, while still deal a ton of dmg and stay tanky. Fimble winter is another loved item for me mainly the way how I play lane with "small trades then go in" style. Yet pretty much you just said why this items are so....well niche. But thats why love them. For my its give me a strange sense of power that I can abuse them for my benefit one way or another....OR I'm just crazy...
The very nature of Abyssal mask makes it only valid if you purchase it as a third item, as it cannot be a core item and has a "scaling" useage with the amount of mages your team has.
I play it every now and then with Rell and it is very useful for her, - if - the team comp is mage heavy as it synergies well with her passive and the cc. Otherwise it doesn't has much use.
Cant speak from someone who builds this more than in ARAM, but i spam ADC's there and the CC denial might not be critical, but the item still gives MR, DMG, Crit and Lifesteal, which not only improves your chances of surviving the burst, but being able to fight back.
Some items such as QSS ADC's dont buy them cause they think DMG is the only thing that matters, when in reality, if you get bursted down, you deal nothing.
Sometimes is not even about surviving, if they are focusing you down 1 or 2 off-tank items wont save you, but here is my take:
If they cant kill you in one rotation, they are forced to over commit to get the result, which still plays into your team advantage, be a team player, build for the match, not the wiki's recommended, and you will climb.
Theres no armor version of qss, theres so much cc in the game and it can come from physical damage, people rather build the armor or health on a tank top to at least try to last longer, and adc getting qss against each other does actually help against the ad damage only.
On abysal though it fills a very specific niche thats nice when you need it.
A way to cut through mr while building mr and hp. Its the same argument you said in the video, but you didnt mention it. It gives nice stats for bruisers while also giving a decent bit of defensive stats and pen for all allies and all your damage. Also, its quite cheap, putting it in as a 3rd to 4th item is very effective. I think it is just underutilized atm, not underpowered.
Abyssal Mask's balance history has just been Riot edging us with AP Black Cleaver and I. WANT. RELEASE.
They'll just do a Monkey's Paw thing. We asked for an AP shield busting item for so long, then we got it and it was pre-adjusted Shadowflame which was just, if the enemy was recently shielded, you got max flat magic pen against them which was worthless.
Poppy is a tank that actually needs the mana off Winter's Approach/Fimbulwinter
Abyssal mask being one of the best items in arena is very funny tho hahaha, tho it is still a bit forgotten people are catching up on it slowly!
QSS Made Garen v Mord playable, now its just a swifty dmp hullbreaker angle. RIP QSS
There is nothing wrong with hyper niche items existing. In fact, there needs to be more items that fits vs certain champs and comps.
to be fair with current amount of tenacity you can get just from items(you just buy boots+wits end or steraks and done) and very limited duration of qss this item use cases are limited to like 5 champions out of the whole roster and it's not cost efficient stat wise as well. Also plenty of dangerous cc spells are skillshots so it further diminishes it's value(movespeed boost alongside cc removal on it's upgrade looks more valuable imo ideally it would have been better if it got some smaller/shorter in duration movespeed boost). At this rate it's kinda better and cheaper to buy mercs or cloak from wit's end for example. And you don't always need mr from qss so item is extremely situational,especially when you factor in cleanse which is almost the same except being free.Or I'd rather have pocket sivir spellshield with shorter window to make it like spell parry/deflect something
One people don’t run math otherwise I am pretty sure that fimbul winter has both amazing stats for its cost and a very solid passive while getting you quickly to a legendary item passive, not to mention it’s synergy with other tank items like spirit visage, most people probably also don’t know how hard sunfire items suck, when they could just sit on bamis cinder and go for other tank items, which means fimbul winter goes more into the background cause people think they want the full sunfire.
2 QSS is usually hyper situational, since ranged carried can just play most situations a bit better mechanically and live. On melee Carrie’s it can be an ok option if your champ is hard countered by certain ccs, like yone playing into renata, who murders Auto autoatackers.
Abyssal mask is great defensive option for builds with high pen, going malignance, pen boots. Abyssal on things like anivia; fiddle, swain etc.
if you run math on the regular, you will know it gets you out of the true dmg threshhold of magic dmg and denies a lot of flat pen pretty quickly. (Atm it is 15times 3+ 40% of someone’s mr, which is 20 of a lategame squishy and 16-18 of a midgame one.)
As an ARAM player I often use both Abyssal (if my team is mainly ap) and Fimblewinter.
i mainly play volibear and I love building fimblewinter after getting my second item. I usually build tear first to help me stay in fights longer early game
Makes my W stronger and with his Q, E, and R being slows/stuns it’s amazing
NEVER WOULD I HAVE THOUGHT TO HEAR VARS CALL ME PISSLOW IM SOBBING
On AD Udyr, I find myself running QSS and building Merc Scimitar against particular jungle matchups like Skarner or against a midlane Hwei that I'm trying to get at to cleanse his fear or slow on the ult.