ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Thank you Mario for the data analysis, check out his latest antenna test here:
bit.ly/2RBIymG @Rcschim
I'm sure I didn't.. but in the chance I did help you make a decision over these antennas... check out the affiliate below:
AXII HD Bundle: bit.ly/3gBn57t
TrueRC Singularity: bit.ly/32x5okB
TrueRC X-Air DJI - bit.ly/2uAZRwt
Drone used for test: bit.ly/35NQ0Dy
Don't forget to check out www.ummagawd.com and follow me on Instagram @ummagawdFPV
The reason that the omnis worked better is because you were receiving mainly reflections from the environment around you. There would be effectively zero direct-path signal, due to the building in the way. The omnis will pick up the reflections because those reflections come in from a wide variety of different angles. Directional antennas will perform worse because they're only sensitive to signals coming from the direction in which they're pointed.
The results of this test are exactly as I would predict from the test environment.
You need to fly away in an unobstructed line to check the actual gains.
xjet that makes a lot of sense Bruce!
Yep was just about to say the same thing, good insight.
Before I scrolled down to check the comments, I was thinking the same thing. No way a 5.8ghz signal is making it through the building. It must be bouncing around and over the building.
This exactly. With a narrow beam directional antenna facing into the building, there is almost no chance for multipath propagation to reach the antenna. And if some signal does reach there, then it's gone through many bounces and so has attenuated a lot. Had ummagawd been facing more towards left (facing the side of the building), the directional antennas would probably have faired better because of their gain and because most of the multipath bounces were probably propagating on that side of the building.
I'm no radio genius, but it astounds me how many people in RC don't know the basic fundamentals of how radio works or radio waves propagate from antennas. You have to wonder, how many people out there drive cars, but have no clue how a combustion engine works. :) I'm like, this is your hobby, but you skipped like Chapters 1 through 15... and went straight to the center glossy picture section.
I guess I was lucky to have a 150 in 1 electronics kit as a kid to build circuits with and get to string long wires and dipoles up to play with the family shortwave radio.
Everybody I guess comes in at it from different angles and backgrounds. I'm into RC, and yet I've yet to glue two pieces of balsa together... and worse, we even have a woodworking cabinet shop with plenty of wood glue. And three of my full sized airplane projects in it. How can that be that I'm into RC and yet have never glued balsa together or hot wire cut foam yet :-) Blasphemy! Young upstart!
It's RCSchim with a C (but the C is silent, *spoken with Djangos voice*)
Great test tho and very sympathetic from you to show your errors. And I don't just say this caus you mention my channel ;)
genau, das hat schon voll komisch ausgschaut..ohne C
Assuming or even concluding that a test is flawed because you did not receive the expected result is not good scientific thinking. Suspicion and surprise might be the first feelings, but this should not prevent one to try to think about the correct conclusions. Not getting the expected result can mean that you messed up your experimental setup, but it can also mean that your assumptions were wrong in the first place and so unexpected results can lead to new interesting theories and results.
Dope test! It still answers a lot of questions I have. I think I’m gonna watch more of your videos and less Le Drib lol 😂
looooooooooooooooool
Should never watch that dweeb anyway. Watch the true OGs! Tommy, kevin(stingerswarm) , steele, skitzo, ect... if you want to find a real OG go find the one and only legend charpu! If you know you know 🤣👌✌️
Cam Smith, I was just joking I actually like his videos. In fact he’s the reason why I found these other videos like this one and Mr. Steel or Skitzo, Joshua Bardwell, RotorRiot etc. But my favorite is BotGrinder! But I digress as I am just getting into the hobby and all those guys make great videos to help me along with my beginning of the hobby. In short” I like Le Drib¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Haha your perspective changes once you’ve seen the old school hexcopter video. Poor thing.
0:54 I like how goggle goes into pocket by itself :D
This a *GREAT* test.
It tells me, so far, that spending $75 to replace the stock antennas is a waste of money in multipath environments.
Now test the patches, do the same testing in a different place.. go down walking path into the woods, directly away from the tx (not in a loop like Nurks).
Why not have a helper hold the quad in a fixed location behind some object (eg: the school, which btw looks like a prison!), and then read the bitrate/latency. Swap antennas and check it again. Seems this way would have way fewer variables.
You’re blocking the signal with the building so it doesn’t matter what antenna you have, you can’t penetrate through every wall in that school to make it to the other side. You have to do the test again and fly high enough to be inline with the goggle so you don’t have to penetrate every wall of the school. This test is useless. No antenna can penetrate 40 walls
Fantastic idea doing blind testing with Mario. Really a very robust metric that elimates much of the subjectivity in the analysis.
I learned that is not worth to invest on any hd antennas
Me too right now😅
This test was useless, even a 5watt signal can’t penetrate through 40 walls of a school. If you fly high enough to be inline with the goggle the patch antennas can go more than a mile further than stock dji antennas. This was a useless video
My conclusion is that the stock antennas are not that bad as everybody thinks
I stick to stock
Good enough
Omg “this is a big school, the are a lot of things to penetrate” thread carefully there buddy
loool
Hell yeah!!! I like how you are thinking for these tests. Knowing what not to do is totally as powerful as what TO do.
Are you going to get a drone together with an autopilot to fly missions for this ???? Please! And then you will more easily test all your great ideas(if you havent already in your next video!!) . Like simply testing the variable of how we aim our heads!!
I am new to DJI recently but NOT fpv by any means. Thanks for putting this vid out! 10000% Please keep some more testing and experts / TH-cam guests coming to your channel here and there. I have not yet chosen which DJI antennas to swap in so this is super relevant
Subbed to @RCSchim
All these antennas suck 😅 I get slightly more range with stock DJI antennas over TrueRc Singularities 🤦🏻♂️ in direct LOS and no obstructions in between☝🏻
GEE THANKS. My goggles are in the mail and you didn't help me make a decision.
I have a couple of FuriousFPV Pokerchips here waiting to hook up with the mask.
They are advertised 10 dbi.
I paid $3.00 for each. Less than $10 with shipping.
I have NEVER used goggles before, so I will use the pokerchips
and pretend I have the best antennas money can buy.
OOooohhhh I HATE them.
I mean antennas. Mine always break and get all fucked-up... ;D
Much love Tommy.
Seems the best option is just to use the factory antennas if there isn’t a noticeable difference with aftermarket antennas Why mess with it? seriously though perhaps it’s time we revisit the ground base antenna with the new technology of HD
You aren't wrong. The stock DJI antennas are very well tuned. However, those Singularity Stubbies are so compact that you can just leave them on when tossing in your bag which is totally worth it for me (I'm just lazy ;D)
You got some dirt on your lip
No I'm sorry but I don't believe you were wrong.......
I don't care about a graph showing data, all I want to know is which antenna will get me the furthest!
Your test showed clearly that they all failed around the same location.
Result! Success! Real world results!
Of interest was Nurks recent antenna comparison flying over a lake, showing clear differences of antennas.
Conclusion for all us DJI users:. The stock antennas are damned good when flying buildings.
When flying fields/trees then an antenna upgrade will give a more consistent bitrate for longer.
Thanks to rcShim I have stuck with 4X foxeer lollipop 3 antennas.
Like the stock antennas these are omnidirectional but with higher gain.
However they are not low profile and they make us look rather silly. But they work.
Hmmm I dunno maybe you just saved me 79$,,, love my stock antenna, always knew they were good…. But I wanted to spend 79$ on the new Lumineer xii,,, thanks for ruining it,,, lol yeah I’m joking I still want them, or do I ?
You need higher gains Omnis like Foxeer Lollipop 3 2.5Dbi Stubby Omni FPV Antenna DJI Goggles
The Stock DJI antennas would be good enough if you were are 1,200 mW, making the others redundant at 1,200 mW as well. The average pilot does not need to upgrade from the stock antennas in my opinion once they are at 1.2 W
You doing the foo man chew? Its going to age you so fast. Your gonna look like an 80 yr old wise man next month. When hou look like a 21 yr old wise man now. 😆
Nice video T. So when you have the x-airs on goggles you place them in that top pocket facing down. I run dbl x-airs with the torvol. And that where i place them. 🤙🏻
Thank you for doing this and sharing it. To me this proves that so many people pushing the truerc x-air antenna are biased. Either unknowingly from placebo affect or knowingly from trying to push product to get free stuff from all these companies.
with a directional antenna, people fly 4 km at a power of 25 MW. This clearly says that the antenna is working. Well, for better penetration, it is better to use a frequency of 1.2 GHz
Well I think this could also mean that there was just too much stuff in the middle.. they all failed at the same time.. and omnis get a little extra signal receiving bounces from everywhere while patch are only trying to receive what is being blocked by too much stuff.
Maybe with a bigger building (going further away) but with less stuff inside you would only go around with the patch due to the stuff inside + better penetration + better range since bounces wouldn't "reach".
I'm trying to figure out which dji antennas to buy. Could you try this test again using the dji fpv drone's cruise control option to maintain more consistent speed with the samples? Also which SMA antenna is best off the Vista or air unit?? I love your videos, Tommy. I found your channel through the salt mine video. What an epic place!
I disagree. I don't think it's a completely invalid test. There are results and there are setups that performed better than others. Just because it didn't turn out the way you expected doesn't mean it's a bad result...
You should go long range at a certain power level to test the gains.
That's weird you had such similar results with no real winner.
I use the Singularity Stubbies as my daily drivers for the overall good performance and packability. I just recently bought a pair of the Dual X-air and notice a drastically better range thru trees & buildings but use them only when needed since they take so long to setup
@ummagawd I would have liked to see a test with the single xair on the bottom with singularities on top I tend to have better results with the patch on the bottom coupled with singularities on top js
If behind the building AXII stubby on top is better? what is the mw you using?
Love how the Ads hang at 1 second for 3 to 4 seconds. Lmao. Nice try TH-cam
What happens to DJI if they get band from America?
Yeah what you should be trying is to fly until it fails line of sight. That’s more of a patch antenna test
Why not weigh the result? Let me explain: summation of the bitrate readings, divided by the number of seconds in flight. I'd be curious to know the result.
Thanks ♥️
Flasky_fpv becaus as he explained: if you fly longer on the good side of the building and get more average Bitrate there, it's unfair to say this antenna is better. Only with a consistent speed this would be fair...
@@Rcschim You are right. At this point, using also the images, the measurements "on the good side of the building" could be discarded, choosing a cut-off threshold and then using not an average, but the median. Then it would be interesting to calculate the standard deviation.
Finally it would be great if it were possible to repeat the test by recording the gps data :D
Yeah... I can see you were as confused as I was during the least semester at college with all those tests and results... 😂
Don't worry, Tommy! You tried! That's the important part! 😃
Anyway, maybe a rc car, or even an airplane, with ArduPilot and a mission? That way you would remove the human part of the equation. 😊
Stay safe there! 🖖😊
BTW, I'm Mario as well. 😬
I dunno man, I don't get that kind of performance with any antenna. Especially not the stock.
With high output power and 50mbps mode?
You learn from all results, including failures.
2021 maybe a release year, for good new antenna?🙏💩
well i just my antenna's today ax2
Dude I been running stock and loving them,,,lol I knew they were good,, hmmm
Stock is plenty
Your test concluded the other vloggers test. He had the same experience. He said there is no advantage of changing antennas.
Main reason to change the stock antennas it's for better portability imo running stubbys I can put it away no worries
@@drakinfpv9629 Yeah, the stock is long and I almost broke it the other day
Interesting! Going off of what xjet said, I wonder how the "Mad Mushroom V2" would perform. I haven't had enough Omni antenna to quantify but when I took it off my Stingy V2 FCE and shlapped it on the goggles the over all reception most certainly improved with the helical secondary.
Then again the quick in and out of the goggle setup time would increase. They need to invent POPO SMA connectors lol.....🤔
I have the ethix version (long) and I like it but I don't think that it would make a difference. In my case the only thing I think might help is that its a little longer, with 4 antennas on the goggles don't think there are many gaps in coverage the MM could fill in.
I don't know for sure, but having polarized diversity may help with dji picking up reflections in this case. (mix of lhcp and rhcp) I did some research on this in analog and the problem was that often times reflected signals get distorted so picking up the opposites may not help. www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/antenna-diversity
I think the best thing he could do is change his position or save money on antennas and rent a cherry picker.
@@rocketquad5888 LOL that closing statement 🤘😁
Well they penetrate chaulk and homework. I’m sold.
😂
yes more hd i don;t care if dji or fatshark or any other company. I JUST GOT yout tango 2 grip will instaled tomorow
Thanks for the video Tommy! I picked up the AXII HDs because of the form factor and good performance. I am not sure it is as good as my dual TrueRC Air or single TrueRC Air with dual stubbies but it is good enough and the form factor is just too good to pass up. I also have the VAS Cyclops but not sure when I would want to pull out that. I look like I have a satellite dish coming off my head with that on :)
Do more collaboration content !
My dji goggles haven't even arrived yet and I've already ordered these. I've had the mx-air fatshark array on my hdo's for a while after coming from the lumenier axII 2 stubbies and I don't think I can deal with long goggles antenna's anymore 😬
why not fly in angle mode with just a minimal tilt. That should sync up the speed a bit more, right?
.. confusing that you placed the patches on omni-patch-mix different than @RCSchim on his tests tho... ;)
Man..... even if you went back and performed the identical tests at the exact same times for the next 30 days all we’d learn is DJI has a mind of its own... its a moody beech with good and bad days lol 😂
Me and a buddy also noticed better performance with a single xair plus 2 stock antennas over two xairs in an open area.
Nice review. Thanks
Awesome test man thank you
Nice try 👍😂 Tommy, at least you got some stick time 👍👊🤘🤷♂️🤣
Good vídeo! Usually you see a lot of videos comparing the data (MBs) and in my opinion they have to do it to compare as the actual results were so close that to differentiate they do that.
Honestly what really matter is not the data, is the range and the "feeling" of who is flying, witch one was better to actually fly.
Again, my opinion, all perform pretty close, I would only change the antennas for a better form factor.
I run truerc stubbies on the bottom and truerc x air2 on top for LR. For freestyle around buildings I go stubbies. 2 truerc stubbies and 2 dji antennas.
You could also test for range not just penetration. Also you can have 2 xairs one one top one bottom mounted horizontally one from the left one from the right.
Thanks for the effort, glad you are figuring this out for us beforehand. The mix At the end was cool too. 😎🎮🤙🏻stay up
Theres a few things to take into account .. Swr (standing wave ratio)
The wave and field strenth
Also a directional beam uses ground effect for a certain distance
If you was beaming across the world the signal would use ground effect before the signal gos to the horizon .. To the atmosphere.
Ham radio coms beam signals to one another and use a wave lenth from the ground .. And a virtical antenna would have to be atleast a half wavelenth from the ground to combat ground effect capacitance ..
This also effects swr .
hey tommy i built a remix v1 with the same parts you used in the video. ( love the frame ) on the hobbywing v1 flight controller how do i hook up the rgb leds to it? ty so much for every thing you do . the remix is my every day rig
Usually FCs have an LED signal pad. Solder the LED signal to that and power and then config in BF’s RGB LED config tab
@@ummagawdFPV thank you. Im willing to help got some ideas for you. I have the remix v1 but finding Parts is becoming a pain in the butt. I really love the remix frame that flies phenomenal . there is a stor frount near that could be big enough for indoor flying ( some thing we need here ) and be big enough to mass-produce remix frame and accro brat as well hit me back will fill you in on my ideas for you
furadi did a very similar test and similar results, its hard to design a test that will give good data you can use, like mario said its gotta be ultra clinical and fair, i said to furadi this test was a bit like seeing which car had the toughest bumpers by driving it over a cliff, they all failed hehehe
Oh and Tommy the xair for dji has a 90 degree equal pattern not wider and shorter like the normal xairs. At least thats what Hugo Cumberland the owner of true rc told me.
Shoulda did singularities on top n patch on BOTTOM that’s how it’s supposed to be js
Which Torvol pack is that, the pro or regular? The reason why I ask is that it looks smaller. I like it.
You got some dirt on your lip lol
But I tells something if you are just flying around buildings use circular antennas nothing else will be as good ;-)
Great pilot and nice guy but has no idea how antennas actually work..
So late but also, the receiving antenna is the bottom right antenna on the DJI goggle. I see many people plugging the patched into the top ports. Sending data only.
The top ports are actually both send and receive 😉
@@ummagawdFPV this is why my report in school days always said "should pay more attention" 😂👊🏼
Lol
Thanks for the hard work in doing this video, really appreciate it!
Good try !
its all based on what fits in your bag nothing else matters
That’s mostly how I choose lol
welcome back to another episode of rotor riot... i mean another video hahhahaha
V1 or V2
You should build a plane that you can set way points to for testing this so you can get the longer flight times to get more data with more range there are some good drone builders here on youtube!
Would it be possible to have a relay RX (or what ever DJI uses) booster and antenna behind the building that you could automatically switch to as you start to lose signal? That way you could make it all the way around . Might be worth asking someone like Alex Grieve (Ibcrazy} Video Aerial Systems.
I contacted Alex and I hope he doesn't mind if I quote his reply:
' It would be possible and has been done many times for analog video. The issue is DJI is proprietary and does not freely share their protocols. You would need that information for this to work'.
Just a thought if you want to fly all the way around such a building in one take. Maybe worth contacting DJI to see if they could come up with such a solution.
Your goatee is struggling more than the test results. Hahah. Your the man Tommy keep up the awesome work.
Dude called up Magneto for FPV advice lol
Good work you two. Nice to see the colab with the one and only Rcshim! More of that please
Oh was looking at that quad before
Great video Tommy! Even if it wasn’t a great test ;-)
Don't have dji goggles but I do have t2.. I wonder if it would allow you to go all the way around the building too 😁
DJI = the devil.. dji aeroscope...next years best seller to shoot down the dji drones they sold you this year....enjoy your new masters.....
How about doing it the right way
Im loving 4 plain old rubber duckies
oOh, it is good to see this trans-oceanic cooperation.
Behind buildings you require reflections to get a signal and polarized antennas will not work that good.
They change polarity every time they bounce, bit of a crap shoot. But the extra 3db/double the gain by having matching polarity is better than running linear and having both be worse and only better for certain situations.
They actually sell sets for dji with both rhcp and lhcp intended to be used at once. I haven't seen anyone test them though.
My test are that my stubbies did the best then the patch
Rocking the foo manchu
Great job brother, love your videos
noooooooo omnis on top patches on bottom
The Editor what's the right way in your experience?
@@Rcschim in my expiriance the best from all my antennas is 2 omis on top for dji and 2 patches on bottom probably x air sideways
love it man! keepin it real is important
Nice Z1! You mod it yet?
Everybody is up for sale now a days!
They are compact alright but stock antennas are better! For what I see no one needs to get aftermarket antennas!
SAVE YOUR MONEY FOLKS!
Go watch others tests, they see great improvement from axiihd compared to stock antennas.
surf1punk I’ve seen and other than the compactness I seed no advantages at all!
Science! Great :D
on point !!!!
Thanks
Tommy could you please test lhcp and rhcp together on the goggles with an air unit using both also?
I believe DJI only uses LHCP
That's exactly what maple wireless suggests with their antenna pack. Go check them out, I think they are on Banggood. They use 4 patches 2 l and 2 r.
And the air unit has different than orientation as well. They flew 13.3km with it ;)
👏👏👏 Good!!!
I just got he mavic mini but I don't have a phone:(
You need to re-prioritise your electronic tech budget!
Look on ebay. I got a brand new in box smartphone for 25 bucks. It's one of those trac phone dealios, but who cares. You don't need to buy service to use the DJI app.
El chino!!! great video man! I am still waiting for my dji goggles to arrive...
you should try also foxeer lollipop on the goggles to see what the performance is.
and what about using a different antenna on the tx? a pagoda for instance...
ev. FPV El Chino rocks 👍🏻😃
Multiple goggles wouldn't work with DJI's audience mode. And to this day it's still not 100% clear to me how the goggles work wrt which antennas receive and which transmit. I've heard multiple versions of that story, but the most common one seems to be bottom is tx/rx and top is rx only? So theoretically if you only have patches on top that helps signal from your quad to reach goggles, but not the other way around, which is exactly why I too expected dual X-Airs to completely destroy others in this test.
Filip Radelic I've seen a paper (fcc?) where it states that all are tx but the bottom left one which is RX only.
And yes, not even multipl goggles would make testing easier...
Waypoint missions is the only way ;)
And mounting the goggles on a tripod...