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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2019
- This is part three of an in-depth look at each of the five contemporary Rockstar video games, Grand Theft Auto IV, Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire, Grand Theft Auto V, and Red Dead Redemption 2. We look at the game's themes and objectives as art. I hope you enjoy. Try to watch all the way to the end before commenting, if you are going to.
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If there was a sequel, I think it could be continued with Kelso as the protagonist through the early 1950's
WORD
There was a sequel called Whore of the Orient. It was never finished and probably never will be. There is some footage on TH-cam.
@@ww21943 I was so disappointed when Whore of the Orient was cancelled. The proposed setting (Shanghai Municipal Police in the 30s) was really interesting
Gonville Bromhead agreed and the leaked footage looked really promising
@@ww21943 just checked out the footage and yeah it's a shame they didn't continue with it.
I will say, with regards to the homicide desk, I perceived the writing to have full intent in teaching the player a lesson on a flaw of the justice system. Sometimes they can't get, or don't care about getting the right guy, as long as there are results to put in the papers. A better way to put this is that "Any result is a good result".
Makes sense. Even Ace Attorney had a similar theme with several attorneys and prosecutors don't care about getting the right guy, just their respective guilty or not guilty.
The second game even has the character make a choice: you find out your client is actually the culprit but you're almost guaranteed a not guilty verdict by this point, mean someone innocent will go to jail.
When the trailers of the game were out, I knew this was one of the games, I had to have. I still have it, in physical form in fact, and it had probably all of my favourite elements of the past:
"Expensive" Jazz/Bebop music
The suits
1940s/1950s economic boom
Film noire/crime/detective shows
The analysis of the film/game as a whole is excellent. You point out very interesting points, some of which made me gasp. It's funny that a point, the game made me feel like I should aim to be a Cole Phelps, a morally upright person, but the constant reminder that the world isn't like that, at all.
I read a coment.
That is how I began playing L.A. Noire my self only I found being stuck a too agravating delimna at that time.
So few detective games?
To me it figures that Roy Earle needed to rid himself of Cole Phelps because of the lesson he, (Earle), was learning from Phelps, he was beginning to see the corruption from within himself that he was happy to ignore with a most likely alcoholic habit and carefree way of being his own category of an officer. So instead of feeling the backlash and consequences of his own "evils" he'd simply rather rid the cure to his tolerated sickness.
I do agree with a lot of the points made, and that each of Cole’s partners have something to learn from him as much as the other way around
Stefan: No one’s going to hand you the next rung on the ladder unless you take it
Rusty: How can you stop crime if you don’t know how it thinks?
Roy: Corruption always starts within
Biggs: Change begins with choosing a side
@@BenHopkins1000can you expand on the lesspm bekowsky learns? It was a long time I played this game.
@@Dwarfplayer Bekowsky mentions it took him 6 years to become a traffic detective while Cole achieved it in a fraction of the time through skill, will, determination, ambition, and a little luck. It’s very likely Cole inspired him to move up the ranks as well, since 6 months after the traffic cases, he gets promoted to homicide once Cole joins vice
It's sad that the company shut down and had a very troubled history. It ended up being an amazing game that is still groundbreaking and the story was gritty and real, and not afraid to throw a sad ending. Most people want a happy ending - but the game showed a realistic look at how society works - especially police corruption in big cities.
Wow, great review. I love the game so much. I felt so bad for Phelps and even worse for Kelso - he was willing to go head-on with the establishment for his friend, only to loose his friend.
I admired Phelps virtue, he was an overachiever, compensating for his personal failures during the war, but that same gung-ho outlook got him into trouble, and the city devoured him.
Phelps was an optimist, Kelso a realist.
Roy/Monroe are like the Noah Cross of this story, and in the theme typical of Noir genre, the bad guys often win, as they do in the real world, sadly. One man can't hold back a flood.
I’ve replayed this game at least 15 times across 3 consoles, never gets old. I’m dying for a sequel.
Indeed, I've slacked this year, but since its release, I've played it once a year within 2 weeks all the way through. A nice game to play on boring summer nights.
This is easily my favorite video game of all time.
Same here!
To my "L.A. Noire" was a game that I thought, "I'm going to have fun with."
I know that I'm a storyteller and I know I'm drawn to that are or have the essence of drama. Like I 'm not a big person on Sci-Fi or fantasy because to out there that I rather look for something in a realistic POV.
"L.A. Noire" when I was young, was a game that I thought was awesome. You get to play a cop, you get into shoot outs and question people wondering if they are lying or not. To a kid, that sounded fucking awesome.
Now older, I see the flaws that it has but that doesn't mean that it's not something I love to go back and play because it's something that is still amazing for it's time but it's still fun and engaging.
This was one of the best, most unique game experiences of my life. Loved every second of it, could replay it any time
I love that not only they “just” take the title of the time in the 40s, but they also talk about what was happening (La riots, election of Nixon, the black dahlia). It sucks, but I’m glad that they talk about the racism, sexism, assault that has happened at the time. Being Phelps, it’s great seeing that the character truly cares about his job and how other officers feel/use their job. I honestly loved this game and the plot. I wish that we saw a bit more of Phelps personal life (kids, wife before the affair, how the affair started, what made him want to be a police officer for ex). I would play this game again. It has done justice.
I have played this game through at least 4 times. In fact, right now I'm working on cutting the entire thing into a cinematic mini-series.
The facial capture technology was truly a strange and interesting inclusion. It does make the whole experience feel like some giant tech demo in some sense, though I found it charming more often than cringy, with several noticeable exceptions of course. It's strange comparing something like this to Detroit: Become Human, a game that arguably has some of the most lifelike character models in the medium. All that money they put into this, could've been solved with time.
That facial capture technology was pretty new and revolutionary at the time for video games. Their work in LA Noire allowed games like Detroit: Become Human to look so good.
After all someone needs to take that first step and rockstar and team bandai did so. I'm sure for the sequel they could make it with even better technology for even cheaper now and make it look better for the next gen consoles.
this slaps
I was nothing like that for me. I was very young as well, but I could not get enough of this game. I knew what it was going to be like and I was very happy with how they did the gameplay.
my man wrote in the transcript "lets get into it ay" 💀
Pls don't stop making videos, man! I love them, they give me a fresh perspective
the end is the best it shows how people like Leonard Petersen who tried to fought the corruption just accepted it
Nice work. As a fan of film noir, this had me geeking out when it first released. I loved that the collectables were named after classic films.
I love all the analysis for the entire team. And yes, Cole is a deeply flawed great character and the story that he’s in is giving us that Noire experience I think that we didn’t care so much about Noire genre until the game came out I guess it only took a game and the excitement along with the reality of the game for us to take an interest in the genre and Cole is the main character, being a grey character is Noire stories, but here’s another thing that I love bout video is his partners.
27:56 - 29:37 - Stefan
29:37 - 32:01 - Rusty
32:01 - 33:13 - Roy
33:15 - 34:50 - Biggs
The only flaw I found with the partners is that during the final missions, it would have been great to partner up with Kelso
What a thoughtful and detailed analysis! I admire the attention to detail. you must have put a lot of work into this! Subscribed!
Just played and finished it at the end of 2021,10 years to late in my reckoning.i don't even know why I didn't get it when it came out,but I was blown away,one of the most impressive and engaging game I ever played.
LA Noire is one of my most favorite games of all time. Yeah the gameplay isnt the greatest, and the motion capture could be flawed at times. But this games story really taught me some things about life.
Excellent video! LA Noire is one of my favorites, its story, tone, and visuals are so deep! I love playing it once a year from start to finish within a 2 week period.
Wonder how effective the ‘Always Accuse’ strategy would work in real life.
Hah, I actually thought a lot about this when I was writing that part. I started a bit of the script that researched if there were similar police procedures to always accuse, but couldn’t find anything that fit with the script.
So many people didn’t like the ending, myself included, but that’s the point. It’s a noir. I’m a big vintage noir film buff, and rarely do they end with things going back to normal or wrapping events up nicely. The protagonist is usually there, more or less, for the ride instead of actually solving the problem. They may find out what’s going on in the background of the city, but they are never fully able to escape it. Whether it means they live with guilt, or they end up on the other side of a gun.
This was a great video man n congratulations.
I get to listen to this while I’m driving the truck :)
Good stuff David - just forgot to cover aspects about Jack Kelso, who helps effectively closes the loop on both Cole Phelps ‘pathway’ an mission. One key learning for Cole was that he showed much-needed humility asking for help against SRF. Even if it is hinted, we don’t know exactly why/how he came to this realisation to do so - frustration at the complexity of the case against the SRF? His demotion to arson? Elsa talking him through his predictament?
I agree with your wider conclusion here - I really admire the police procedural/narrative-driven nature of the game. Itwas just either far too ahead of its time or just not executed well enough.
First video I've seen from you David but I enjoyed it. I love LA Noire and I loved the in-depth look into it. I'm not that serious a gamer but I do enjoy sitting down as escaping to somewhere else. This really opened my eyes to the game, to Cole and to the role his partners play. Thank you 😊
This is what I like to see. Thank you so much for the kind words.
This is literally my favorite game and I’ve finished the whole thing multiple times. Stefan Bekowsky has my heart
Tracer Bullet is my whole Noir Detective experience, too! I put this on to listen to while working and I immediately snapped to attention when I heard the "two magnums" line.
When i started it i loved it but i had just fallen out of it possibly due to the pacing, probably just lost drive to keep going, but when i came back and finished it i was curling my toes at the story and how amazing it is and i started to realize it has that classic rockstar cutscene pacing which had kept me sucked in, i mustve just stopped playing before it started to kick off.
Kelso as a DA investigator turning on the Vice squad and corrupt LAPD would have been a cool sequel
I think the ending few cases of L.A. Noire are executed pretty well. It is Cole coming to terms with who he wants to be vs who he is. (spoilers)
We have Kelso, a veteran who did not always follow protocol, but stuck strong to his morals, and kept his men safe. He works in insurance (any american knows the reputation of insurance companies), but Elsa and Cole reignite his desire to see things done right, and put him on his path to become a D.A.'s investigator.
We have Cole, working together with Herschel Biggs, as he tries to take down the corrupt, immoral institution and its conspiracy. For revenge, certainly. Perhaps too as a way to see justice for the families hurt by the conspiracy and its arsonous wake.
But it is during the final moments, in that sewer, when Cole is confronted with the reality of the situation. Kelso is a good man. He may not have always stuck to the rules, but he always did the right thing. Cole is not a good man. He grows as a person, but he cannot escape his past. He let hank die from his cowardice. He cheated on his wife. He is responsible for the deaths of innocent children. He may not be Roy Earle, but he has no moral high ground to stand on.
Cole realizes this during his final moments, as his friends reach to pull him out, and resigns himself to this fate. Kelso will live, carrying out justice. Cole will not. Should Cole have tried to start anew? Should he have tried to live? Maybe, but maybe the final scene on the boat with Kelso and the other vets exists to explain this. Cole is a coward who seeks glory. Of course he wouldn't face life. He would die a hero loyal to his country and his city, and, as even Roy Earle broke down admitting, a good friend.
Great video, this deserves more views.
Lovely content and keep up the good work
Love your content man ! Really underrated.
Thank you! Glad to see some love on this video. I really like this one.
Great Analysis, man! Your content is amazing!
Aw! Thanks. Love seeing good comments on this video.
The 40s were epic times. Those idealogies were awesome
I would really like a second game where we find out that Cole actually survived faked his death and continued to work with kelso to take down Roy and the remaining dudes
Maybe. In actual Los Angeles history, I know that the LAPD police chief was caught red-handed in 1948-9 and eventually resigned alongside elements of the Vice Squad amid public scrutiny. William J. Worrell in LA Noire was based on Chief Clemence B. Horrall. He was taken down by the Brenda Allen case and the woman received some good cops' protection due to her relationship with Sergeant Elmer, which was almost similar to Cole's relationship with Elsa & the ties to Role Earle.
Hi, David!
I enjoyed your video- I think you really nailed its major themes and ideas, but was a little sad that you weren't able to see more classic and neo-noirs before writing your analysis. If you are interested in further exploring the game's roots, I would recommend watching LA Confidential (1997) for its depiction of the police, The Third Man (1959) for its eerily similar finale in the sewers, Touch of Evil (1958) for its crooked cop narrative, and Double Indemnity (1944) to see the game's inspiration for Jack Kelso.
I recently played through the game for the first time, and I am a big fan of noir, so I'm happy that others like you are also excited for the unique direction the game takes.
Hope you have a great day. :)
Overall I can agree with your take that LA Noire did a pretty good job with explaining the truth about race relations. However some clips were taken out of context. Like the one interrogation with Cole and Edgar Kalou. Those weren’t Cole’s actual sentiments; he saying that because he knew Kalou had a temper and the prejudice that he had as a Jew was a justifiable sore spot. Insult Kalou’s heritage and cal him a commie and Kalou told on himself. Later Cole says that truthfully what Kalou believes is his business. Cole’s can be an arrogant prick but he’s not a racist.
I played though the game when I was a teen for the first time and I loved it. Played though the story in about a week over summer break.
To be fair to Bekowski, LAPD cops just are not promoted to detective after only a year as an officer. It's unheard of now, and in the 40's it only happened because of politics or corruption. It's impossible to earn detective rank in a year. 6 years like Bekowski is pretty normal, in fact it's relatively fast. Claiming he has a poor work ethic like Phelps does at the start of the game is at best arrogant or at worst ignorant.
Yeah i think with Bekowsky theres a bit more there than him being a lazy boi until Cole shows up. He's generally the most solid partner you have throughout the game in terms of helpfulness and being an all right person., he's just a far too "chill" person for being a detective. However he does show occasionally that he can be forceful like with those gangsters at that end of the last traffic case. i really liked this about him as it made him a bit more 3D than characters like Roy who is just a striaght up Bad guy whose only redeeming qualites are a couple of funny lines and the sweetest car in the LAPD.
Not only did I finish it, I got the 100% complete award. I love this game. The detail is unsurpassed.
If you can get thru the slog missions of GTA IV.....you can definitely beat this game. Come on now 🙄
Really like these videos
The game should have been a mix of what it was and telltale games' choose your own adventure with consequences. In addition to random whiplash responses, there doesn't seem to be any consequence to outright failing missions. The hit and run mission comes to mind where if you completely ignore the evidence related to the stabbing and just arrest the driver, for some reason you get the conviction but the captain knows you screwed up.
If you mess up interrogation, NPCs will still spoonfeed you the ending. Oh the missing man in the car full of pig blood has a friend? Oh you just accepted everything he said on face value? Well let's just follow him to his apartment and arrest the missing man.
I absolutely love the game but it has room for improvement. Too bad Bondi went out of business or something
I had this playing while I was working but kept tabbing over to it because I wanted to watch the scenery. Very good video. Also every man in this looks like a chad except cole
nice review
Another really interesting video! I am sad to say that I have only your analysis of both RDR games left to watch in this series. I think it might be a nice idea to make a video or two on Quantic Dream's games. Maybe the writing is not on the same level, but I think the ambition is there and I see similarities between Rockstar and QD in both narrative achievements and flaws.
How about this for a sequel:
L.A Confidential. Set 20 years after L.A Noire. You play as a coloured skin rookie that climbs the rank in the police department. Set in an era where racism was normal. The main character must face racism in the department and the way the L.A police treat the coloured skin people. Maybe the main character have to solve a few cases that involve racism like the higher ranked officers have low confidence in the main character in the first few cases, the witnesses doesn't reply to the main character's questions seriously or a case about racial profiling. The main character must face important cases like the Manson Murder Case, the Skid Row Slasher, the Trash Bag Murderer, the Zodiac Killer and so on. And for the last case the main character have to investigate the corruption case of L.A police department that is related to Cole Phelps death, the main character have to interrogate the characters from L.A Noire, the detectives(Especially Roy), the higher up ranking officers, Elsa, Jack, Phelps' wife and daughters, Maybe Jack will be the main character's partner in the final case. In the end, the main character will fall in love with one of Phelps' daughter and he have to do the revenge himself because not all crime can be solve with justice.
Bahram Raftari this would actually be insane
And The soundtrack would have a lot of rnb and soul And of course rock of The time
And like in gta series we could see Tv And some Tv shows like they had in that time period And go to the movies in our free time And of course the cars of that time
That would be a great video game
This video is EXTREAMELY important for this time
I just finished playing it for the first time ever in my life yesterday and I really like how it wasn't action packed all the time
It made you have to pay attention
Love the vids, I'd love to see you do a video about SOMA, from Frictional Games. I think it would be interesting
Cole was a flawed and interesting character who was trying to do what good he could despite all the bad shit he did he did what he could in the end sadly it led to nothing but he died a man wh was ready to sacrifice what he had to do as much good he could in the end
I got this game for free and have had it for a couple years but haven't gotten around to playing it just yet.
I didnt finish it at first, but half a year later I went back and completed it
I enjoy this video!
They should do a sequel to this game. Have it set in New York or Washington DC.
One of the few games I played and finished more then once. That tells something.
If you try to deduce the truthfulness of the suspect from the way they answer and not from their expression afterwards it's a truly immersive thing,I guess I was lucky that that's the way I treated the interviews naturally and didn't spent much time looking at their faces to notice the exaggeration an jank.
If it just had ONE more case to give Cole Phelps the redemption he needed it would've been better instead of just killing him off.
his death WAS his redemption
I got this game in 2013 and didn’t play past the homicide desk once until I beat the game last week
I LOVE noir detective stories and this is a masterpiece in my eyes♡
This is my favourite game of all time, never played anything like it, I love it so much
Hey, guy! I think you and Writing on Games make the best video game analysis on TH-cam. Can’t wait to see the rest of the Book of Rockstar.
Hey, person! Thanks! Love me some Hamish. Only one part left to go, catch yourself up!
I was living in a house built in the 20's in Echo Park (just down the street of the old city hall) when I played this game the first time. It made everything in the game feel too real. It also made me realize how corruption and crime seeps into our everyday existence like a whisper in a crowd.
I played this game this 3rd time and watched all through the credits, ending scene after the credits is interesting - I won’t spoil
I believe another layer to Rusty is that he is the antithesis to the romanticism we all try to place on police work and fighting for justice. We're all promised that if we pursue our dream/passion as a career--in this case, solving murder mysteries (which is what Phelps had always aspired to do)--we will escape the mundane, boring parts of life and find the promise of Glorious Purpose. We will unlock Pandora's Box, and the splendor of meaning and purpose will explode out endlessly to enjoy for eternity. Suddenly the Universe and God's Plan will make sense to us. This is represented by the serial killer--we are exposed to a web of conspiracy that goes right to the top. But in the end, the truth of the divine is repressed because it's too explosive to order in society.
I compare it to winning the lottery--people think, "this is it! My life is awesome no matter what from now on! No more hard times for me!" And then reality hits super hard: money doesn't buy happiness, but it can make a lot of misery.
Me and my brother played this game and loved every second of it.
This video is just as insightful and thought-provoking as I hoped it would be. There were some weird audio issues, like right before you started talking about your channel at the end, but ultimately when the content and analysis is this good it’s not a dealbreaker. Keep it up!
Such a underrated game. I wish we got a sequel.
“I think you should play it again” Say no more my good man :D Congrats on getting married :)
17:18 that’s the exact reason that i’ll play with an interrogation walkthrough guide whenever i revisit the games. i’ll decide which course i wanna take and then reference said guide before following through. makes the game much less frustrating as i don’t have to fully rely on this unique but often flawed mechanic.
I love the accuracy of the 40s
I was struggling to understand the character of Cole Phelps(mostly because I don't have context of the American army) and this is a analysis helped a lot.
Huh I've reached the end and I still don't know how to feel about the story
Man, I haven't watched the video, but I am fucking hyped for it. I *love* L.A. Noire, although there are big flaws and repetition throughout. The result of muddled development and brutal working conditions at Team Bondi. If they had focused maybe on a *single* case over the whole length, it could have been the True Detective of video games.
I loved it
I know it's not a bright new video, but... I felt need to say that I finished LA Noire three times in 6 years and it got better with each playthrough. I just adore it and cannot wait till I will have forgotten the solutions of the cases and can start my fourth playthrough. I guess that having a bad memory is a benefit in this case :D
I always enjoyed it but I’ve only played it through 3 times and 2 of those were in the last 3 years
think it has an awesome story, yet I never really thiught of its message. Hearing you makes it a lot better. Tho i kinda ruined the game for me since I am really hard with choices... I hate to fail so I’ve been unfortunately looking a lot of solutions up on youtube... I hate my self right now. Still an awesome game that has taught me to be more intuitive and listen more, analyse and look at the details. It has taught me patience and self confidence with choices
I have to say big well done with this video, I think it’s one of your best videos yet. I watched it in one sitting and it kept me engaged throughout. I haven’t played the game so I can’t say you missed anything worth talking about but I will look to pick up LA Noire when I’m not busy.
At the end of your RDR video you said you wanted to answer some viewers’ questions so here’s mine:
If you were cast away on a desert island, what songs, which book, and what luxury item would you take?
I still dont get the background story about courtney sheldon? Can somebody please explain
I got to the affair and demotion and the game lost me quick after that but I still look back on it fondly as a whole
This video was great. I really enjoy video essays and long form critiques and your channel is one of the greats. I dont know your stance on requests but could you try and check out prey 2016? And if you have played it I really want to know your thoughts on it. It it one of my favorite games.
I loved the game. I finished it. I also spent ages finding the cars. Got to 93 of the 95. That is without any help from a walk through.
I love L. A. Noire, but I totally suck at this game, at least in the interrogations, I have Asperger, what make me really difficult to discern if someone is lying or not.
13:00good one😂
shout out to the two jars of peanut butter at 6:10
Would love to see an upgrade with modern graphics..I mean...they recreated a whole city in its 1948-version...that alone is a huge work. Even historians could learn from it.
I originally played it went it first came out for like 3 hours then just recently played it again on the PS4 and I LOVED IT but can understand how some people can’t finish it takes patients but if you can finish it I think you will love it just like I do
When I played it for the first time I I was halfway through the game and my game crashed it corrupted my save file I got to finish it just annoying how buggy it but nonetheless I enjoyed it :D
Some of the cases were based around real LAPD and LA Fire and Rescue cases. Gotta give Rockstar credit for that
The key to this game is don’t play it the way you play most things. Don’t binge play it for hours or it’s going to get overwhelming. Play it like a day job, a few hours each day then your done. Then you will get a lot more enjoyment from it.
I completely agree. Like episodes of a drama.
Drop the critical race theory and sexist-bait and you’d be one of the best.
At 3:33 in the video the dead dude is identical to Michael Townley in GTA 5 when he falls to his death! Just noticed that! Haha damn Rockstar is amazing when it comes to details
It's not just a game or a story though. I think this game it supposed to enlighten the general public about what LA actually is. Because that darkness? That moral depravity? It's still there 100% you bet your fucking life, bro.
If you don't have the patience of finishing this game, we can't be friends.
I finished it a couple months back but was really upset that *-cole died-*