Why Star Trek is DYING... and How to FIX it
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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In this episode we look at why modern star trek series like Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard are really killing the franchise.
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Basically:
CBS: "Just say there are five lights and you'll get anything you want"
Trekkies: "THERE ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!"
"Now, Picard, don't be difficult. Just say there are five lights, and-- Picard? Picard, are you listening to me?"
"Six hundred nine, six hundred ten, six hundred eleven, six hundred tw--"
"Picard!!"
"Please don't interrupt. I might lose count and have to start over."
"Lose count? Of what? There are only four, er, I mean, five lights. Whatever are you counting?"
"Well, hanging from the ceiling there are two bright white lights to your left and two more to your right, which any simpleton knows adds up to only four. However, on the wall behind you are hundreds upon hundreds of tiny, circular blue lights. Now, where did I stop?"
"Sigh. ...Six hundred twelve."
"Right. Six hundred thirteen, six hundred fourteen...."
I literally just watched that episode yesterday!
I can actually imagine Picard doing that.
I don't get it. Please , could you explain ?
@@TheDetailsMatter please , could you explain the joke ?
'The Measure of a Man' is one of _the_ best episodes of Star Trek TNG. And the fact that they basically stopped caring about that at all in Star Trek: Picard is an insult to the fans. Not just of that series, but to good writing in general.
And while I am at it, I don't like the swearing either, but more importantly, NO CONTEMPORARY SLANG, it will date it to quickly, dude!
Precisely. You want to swear in a distant human future? Take a page from Farscape. Take more if you're there.
@@crebegea Agreed. Battlestar Galactica did likewise and it somehow seems more authentic.
The issue with bringing back old characters as a focus and total reliability is that we won't want to welcome new people. So we need to meet in the middle - bring back old characters from time to time, passing the torch to the next crew. Sort of how TNG, DS9 and VOY did it - where characters from previous shows made an appearance. This way, the show is self-reliant and independent, but serves some occasional nostalgia that we want to see.
Even though Discovery's first season was overall just bad, I still welcomed the fact that this was a new, young crew who will continue the Star Trek adventures, it just failed in all areas that previous Star Trek shows were able to succeed in.
ST Picard did that, in some degree. Still a lost cause I'm afraid. I enjoyed for what it was, but it wasn't the Star Trek of the intelligent, thought provoking and humanistic.
Every other Star Trek series was able to introduce a new cast of characters who fans fell in love with -- except the shows created by Alex Kurtzman. Bringing back classic characters (and often re-writing them) is a cheap trick used by people who can't write.
The best Star Trek series DS9 didn't have a starship until season 3
But it had a cool spaceport!
Yep, it had Terac Nor.. and even if it did'nt, it still had all the elements of start trek and when dealing with the darker sides of life , as DS9 often did, it did it while still respecting the look and feel of a star trek show. I could understand an old fan saying they like the new stuff even though they know it's different, that's fine, but for all those people who say they love the new trek and don't see a problem with the new shows, well... they just don't know trek.
DS9 is my favorite Trek without question!
I’ve been wanting more DS9 but with many more starships...this has been my dream.
And DS9 is not so stuck in a particular time and the characters are always changing coming and going. It’s already set up for a heap of new stories about new and old characters.
DS9 the best ? what are you smoking bro
I grew up with Star Trek, but I'm not very interested in the new episodes of Discovery and Picard
I'm not sure about your "super friends" approach to a new series, but you are spot-on in all your diagnosis of how the franchise has been tanked.
In the measure of man, data, AI rights. The findings were: CAN an AI qualify for the rights that organic sentients have by default: yes. Does Data, specifically, meet the requirements: yes. The findings were NOT: all AIs qualify for sentient rights. Just because a computer can respond with outputs of strings of sounds that make words does not prove it to be any more sentient than an ant colony. The findings of the court in the show would also yield committees, groups and research to be done to determine the qualifying criteria for synthetic sentience and possible test.
The discovery crew 'were shit' and out of place with the rest of star trek: Maybe with G.R.'s original vision but if DS9 and Voyager are considered part of the the prime cannon: No, actually. The Enterprise D was THE flagship of flagships, and Picard was THE master of diplomacy. The crew was of the top percentile of the federation. Even the 'true' original (Kirk's) Enterprise was the upper percentile of personnel.
The issue is that a crew like that of discovery would NEVER be put on a ship like the discovery, allowed to continue the operation of the powerful technology it contains, nor be tasked with missions of importance like it was. The kind of ship such a crew would be one would be one that is barely fit to deal with space pirates, and mainly does interstellar transport, a ship were careers go to die, a miranda class would be too good for them. Maybe a book about them, or a guest appearance in a show but not the centerpiece of a show. Now, can a 'dysfunctional' crew be setup/arranged to be fitting of a show: yes, but it must still be disciplined and the type of captain it would need would be one who is a master of federation and starfleet laws and regs such that by knowing even ones that conflict a wider array of actions can be legally justified, a master of report making, being knowledgable such that even the prime directive can be worked around all the while following protocols and laws. This captain is mentor that teaches the 'dysfunctional' crew how to become functional by mastering the system far beyond what normally functional people do.
Data got his rights (which Laal also had) because Picard basically said "we can't make a new species and then use them as slaves," which is also followed through during the exocomp episode. Then there are Wesley's nanites, which gained sentience despite being made by the Federation and not being sentient in the first place, so Starfleet knows fine well that machines that don't start sentient can gain sentience. In Picard we see (to paraphrase Guinan) hundreds of disposable people who do the dirty work that no-one else wants to, which is exactly what Picard was trying to avoid in Measure of a Man...
Everyone forgets the "photonic lifeforms" (holograms) like the Doctor. We saw very clearly that the holograms were still being used as slave labor in the Voyager episode - Author, Author. So it's not too difficult to believe that the Federation is still using artificial lifeforms that way. I'm sure there are still plenty of lawyers who can find loopholes to allow it.
@@ScaryBaldMan ngl I think it would have worked better with holograms. Like you said, we saw them being used for slave labour during voyager so they aren't considered to be the same as androids. Picard could have been working with the Doctor, maybe even Janeway, to get rights for self-aware holograms when the attack happened. Would fit better with canon while also limiting Starfleet's ability to help Romulus, and could be an ongoing part of the story (holograms would need to keep the emitters intact, so the damage they can do is limited) with the holograms holding the shipyards. Just one possible line you could take with the hologram idea, I'm no writer though
Your 'mentor-captain teaching dysfunctional crew' idea is brilliant and logical. I can see Picard going in this direction if "JL" somehow remembers he's Jean-Luc of TNG and he can convey that same awesome voice and stature of leadership. That would make Picard the series I expected (especially when watching TNG reruns and seeing how commanding and charismatic Picard was) but sadly I dont think Patrick Stewart can pull it off at his age. What we see if Prof. X in Logan. The current cocky pirate captain of their ship is too badass to need Picard but it would make for an interesting conflict if he clashes with Picard-mentor.
So look for your idea in Disco next season with Mikey Spock as that mentor-captain. It won't be because she's human, but because she was adopted by Spock's family, has a time-traveling mom and some other yet to be discovered marysue superpower (think Vulcan Jedi stuff) to save her crew from their sad dysfunctionality and display her awesomeness.
Hopefully Brave New Worlds can explore your ideas in a less-outlandish and more human manner.
What made the old Star Trek great was being able to enjoy watching very competent crews overcome overwhelming odds through intelligence and technical competence. In newer Star Treks the crews are bumbling, juvenile and massively incompetent only winning because they can run, jump and take a beating. New trek is for children. Old trek was for adults.
Good video. First video I've seen of yours. You've earned yourself one new subscriber, sir!
BTW, especially considering my avatar costume, I often find it awkward to explain to people how much I love Star Trek, but not Discovery or Picard or the Abrams films. To me, they're not Trek. They're not true to the spirit of Trek. I'm hoping maybe Strange New Worlds will be more like Trek, but considering the track record of the showrunners, I'm not holding my breath.
It's dying because of the writing, showrunning, and casting. Fix it by getting new writers, showrunners, and casting good actors.
Step 1: Fire Kurtzman's team, they are incompetent.
Step 2: Fire the art team, CBS trek has the worst ship and set designs in the franchise.
Step 3: Load said teams into a canon and fire into the sun.
Step 4: Hire a team who want to tell a story about exploration and not social politics, having them not hate the franchise is a good start too.
As said by JRR Tolkien.
Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.
Strange New Worlds is actually really good. The cliffhanger for the season 2 finale's really got me looking forward to season 3, no question.
Star trek definitely needs more nobility, optimism, and respect in its stories.
To be clear. No one was subjected to anything Star Trek. You either chose to or didn't chose to watch something.
Vocabulary matters.
I partially disagree. I am totally on board with what the speaker said about tone and script direction. I thought we were going to get that with the latest season of Discovery. They flubbed it. Interesting how the closest we have to Star Trek is Lower Decks....
I would also like to see them develop a multi century story baseline (in the tradition of Babylon 5). Then build series off that.
If they would use more traditional Trek scripts, then you can have a whole new cast.
Warf commanding a Klingon ship yes please! More Klingons!
More real klingons would be awesome.
@@Templarzealot89 there is only one Klingon Empire. Didn't think it needed clarification 😉
Yes, Klingons looking as they always should, and NOT the crap we're being served now from Abrams.
I agree with your points, however, id add one, in the original, ng, ds9, and voyager while they focused on the captains, other crew members got their time to shine, in the modern reboots they revolve almost solely on the main protagonist. I hope they make a show where we see the crew as support for their captains not just stand in extras
As others have said here, the problem lies in repudiation of Roddenberry's vision. GR, and the world he created, belonged to an optimistic era that will probably never return, and popular media always reflects the current zeitgeist. While many of us would love a return to those roots it may not even be possible in a world grown pessimistic, suspicious, and obsessed with spectacle. Even our host here wants a big space battle against a new-improved-super-ultra enemy, something anathema to GR's original vision.
It's time to let ST go.
I agree, let it go.
If they wanted to do another TV show like this, do a completely other series from scratch.
Orville somehow managed to be optimistic though, despite being produced at pretty much the same time, AND still fit in a plausible space battle with actual character stakes as opposed to just ships being blown up.
@@builder396 Nothing is absolute and exceptions do slip through. But remember that The Orville (which I love) is a small production with wonky distro. That's how everything outside the zeitgeist functions.
@@mojrimibnharb4584 What the bottom line is supposed to be is:
They could have gone against the Zeitgeist and embrace Trek for what it is and they deliberately didnt because Kurtzman has zero vision beyond what he personally wants to peddle.
@@builder396 Yeah, but... Kurtzman wouldn't be where he is with a major network if he had the vision to do as you describe. Large, established organizations work that way; Kurtzman is just another cog in the machinery.
Beyond that, I doubt such a radical, optimistic SG franchise would play outside the same audience that's watching Orville. As I said in the beginning, this is a paranoid, pessimistic age and it is reflected in our popular media.
I agree with just about everything you’ve said. CBS - we don’t give a shit!
And I would recommend that CBS create scenes involving the remaining cast members of ST: TOS and film them for later use, while Nichelle Nichols, William Shatner, George Takei and Walter Koenig are still with us. Hollywood talked about doing something similar for years with the various James Bonds but when they finally got serious, Roger Moore passed and then Sean Connery and the idea was wasted.
I agree with both parts of this essay: 1) the efforts toward "gritty realism" fell away from the thoughtful optimism of Gene Roddenberry, eviscerating the very reason that Star Trek in its various incarnations was so passionately beloved amongst its fan base, and extended well into popular culture; and 2) the best course of action for all concerned would be to gather key figures from TNG, DS9, and STV for a crossover series--or better yet, a five-part (or more) theatrical release--with a storyline that encapsulates in a cohesive narrative all their issues.
This would 1) give the fans the Star Trek we want, and 2) generate a significant income stream toward profits for CBS, Paramount, and Viacom. If the suits in suites lack the imagination to envisage this, step aside, and allow the fans to create our own. We have *proven* that we can effect this far more affordably and creatively than what we have seen over the past several years.
The first order of business to my mind would be to wash off the stomach turning stench of the Kelvin horror.
Attention, to all the Viacom shareholders: are you listening?
Alex Kurtzman is Paramounts version of Kathleen Kennedy..
@IRONHILLdwarf true.
as much as I love Sisko, the final episode of DS9 leaves him in the Celestial Temple. Not so sure the celestial temple is going to make for a good show
Since he's half prophet and the prophets are basically Q,'s you could bring him in as the omnipotent trickster character to take the main cast out oh their comfort zones and teach hard lessons.
Let it die. This franchise is almost 60 years old, and the world has greatly changed. Time to go on to bigger and better dreams.
I hate to put it like this but Star Trek just feels vanilla to me as a younger viewer. It just seems so clean almost too shiny so my main reason for not being interested in Star Trek is just having a lack of weird technology like the prequels or a unique flair like warhammer or halo
Great episode and a great idea
it cannot be fixed! because of J.J.Abrams and Alex Kurtzman! bye bye another franchise. Now J.J. will destroy DC universe.
How about getting rid of Alex Kurtzman as a writer? Wouldn't that fix a lot? His writing feels lazy and not that captivating.
Plus he ACTIVELY throws shade at the original characters! He's an asshole
Is serialized storytelling REALLY better than episodic?
Yes!! Exactly!! Thank you!!
You don't need an "enemy" in Star Trek, you just need a problem to solve.
Exactly this! In fact many of the best Trek stories had no antagonist at all in the traditional sense, and many of the antagonists they had weren't villains per se but instead simply others at cross purposes. Klingons and Romulans for example typically weren't "evil" even if they were at times ruthless or cruel or had other negative traits. At their core, they were simply officers of a foreign interstellar nation-state serving their people in their military just like the protagonists were. They weren't always even wrong, and it was always at least worth a try to speak to them and see if negotiation or cooperation was an option. Even when conflict was unavoidable due to mutually exclusive goals, they had respect for one another as servicemen with a commitment to their duty. An attitude that could be summarized as "I salute you, my foe, in other circumstances we could have perhaps been colleagues or even friends".
You really hit the nail on the head though when you said the core of the formula was "a problem to solve" rather than "a battle to be won". Sometimes the problem was a combat situation or potential one, but it could as easily be any sort of other dilemma or problem and violence not only was often not the solution it could actually make problems worse. The Starfleet approach was always, ALWAYS, to examine the situation, gather information, determine options, and figure out the best course of action. The nature of that problem could be any of a wide variety of things, and that allowed a wide open canvas for storytelling that was more than just the same two or three tired revenge plots or war plots that the modern hacks rely on. But coming up with interesting problems and creative solutions requires more talent and ability to think outside of simplistic formulas than anyone in the writers and producers rooms can muster.
There are still options to go just behind another hill. Staying well, undiscovered.
You could revisit the phenomenons and do a one up on it. the space jelly, the dyson sphere,
or a story in the live of a cargo hauler. Finding the extraordinary in the ordinary. what happens with civilians
@@darthmeow1370 Have you followed these shows?
I guess that's why STDS9 is so unpopular then .
thats why i loved season 3 of discovery so freaking much. there was no real enemy just a problem that needed solving. sure the orions were antagonists but they were ultimately survivors just making their way in the galaxy just like what was left of the federation.
The foundation for my love of _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ was that Enterprise-D was a warm, cozy place crewed by nice people who liked each other. It was a paradise. It was a hopeful vision for the future that, I would assume, sickens people in Hollywood who want to give us a cold, hostile environment draped in conflict and misery a la Star Trek: Discovery...
^this
I had enjoyed TNG because it felt heavily Worldbuilding and not just fighting and story
_That’s_ why I like the Enterprise D. It was a colourful open place with comfy chairs, and gigantic crew family, and guest quarters. That’s why I have a love hate relationship with Star Trek: Enterprise. 😤😭
@@KitsuneAdorable XD yeah similar feeling there.
And yeah, TNG really was ahead of its time-considering a *good* future.
Abnd y'know what else! it *felt* big. The lack of just 'overarching enemies' that are singular in their roles and thus block out any other enemies or any other interesting stuff-it just made the galaxy feel... small.
Simple, make a show with Garak as the main character, who wouldn’t love a show about a simple tailor.
Him and Dr Bashir or quark
I can just imagine all the fabric he would cut.
Genius
Stronger character than anything we've seen of late. Michael Burnham... wtf???
Garak would out-31 Section 31 any day.
The thing that wasn't mentioned was the huge visual style shift. Stat Wars, in it's longevity has kept a similar visual look and design throughout it's entire run. It's important because it keeps you in universe and always aware you're watching that property.
To be honest I don't mind seeing shows skirting around time periods; in fact I'd love to see a series set in the 80s years between Undiscovered Country and TNG. Cardassian War, Khitomer Romuland Attack, Crystalline Entity first attack, and so many other stories.
That is complete bullshit. The Star Wars Prequels were definitely scorned by "old school fans" for having an unnecessary sleek and modern look compared to the "rust charm" look of the OT.
And while it was a minor point of contention, yes the same could be heard about the Sequels too. Only thing the fans really celebrated was going back to "just the same look" as in Rogue One or Solo and they found plenty to whine about there too.
ANY new series will have to cater to the general audience and what it expects from computergames and movies. You cannot continue to use the cardboard & spit sets from TOS, even Dr Who has realized that and flourished with it.
And if we're honest there is no way anybody will find everything made over 40 years equally approachable, enjoyable or "theirs". so a big problem is that the active fandom stays hungup on THEIR Trek while the producers obviously had to move on as they produce for a wider TV Audience than just those involved in online forums and conventions.
It's not YOUR Trek anymore (or mine), but that doesn't mean it's bad. Stop comparing it to all other series and look at it on its own, in its time, compared to all other TV now being made.
Tng era looks completely different than tos and the movie era. People hated the new look at first but it found it’s stride
I think the original movies had a terrific look to be honest. Especially tmp. It had an epic feel
I feel like the STD/P are just way ahead of they're time and in 50 years Mr. Kurtzman will be heralded as a visionairy and humanitarian for putting such diverse characters in the for-front and giving them an opprotunity to tell they're unique stories giving a voice to those never heard before in the Star-Trek Universe.
It's amazing how these talented writers have been able to weave such an intricate story of Star-Trek with the issues minorities face today. It's basically a passing of the torch and a huge-step for Star-Trek as it sheds its most vile of fans and continues to grow a truly loving and diverse fan-base that is as supportive as one could ask for.
The old fans can always re-watch the old Trek for the um-teenth time, as the true Star-Trek fans boldy go where no-one has gone before! 🖖🏿🖖🏾🖖🏽🖖🏽🖖🏼
@@BoleDaPole Great generalizations of "vile fans" and implying that the Star Trek fan base is now "diverse" or stories of issues minorities face weren't told in the original series, TNG, DS9, and VOY. If that's how you like to characterize the people that helped support, promote, and carry the series forward so it could even get to the point of Discovery; I guess I'm glad to be an old black Star Trek fan like my mom who's 70 and is "the most vile" because she doesn't like the new stuff either.
As long as Kurtzman is in charge, there will not be salvation.
Yes Kluztman is a big part of this problem.
Its funny, I don't mind his other shows, and actually enjoyed some. But man, he dropped the ball with Star Trek.
JJ is getting back into trek...
Kurtzman and kathleen Kennedy should find other lines of work. Never let them or Jar Jar Abrams near an ip again
@@christianjadot4459 Try watching Scorpion, I dare you.
The problem is they are trying to make the new shows "gritty" or "modern", but in doing so they really took away from the whole idea behind star trek. Yes we would love to see more epic storylines or more space battles, but not at the expense of what makes the show star trek. The reason I have enjoyed the Orville so much is because it really feels like a modern take on star trek and is much more what I want in a star trek show than the new star trek shows.
I don't think that's the problem. DS9 is darker and gritty but still a great show, maybe even my favorite. The problem is writers uninterested in writing an ethical dilemma without forcing their own political beliefs and writers who don't know or care about actual science in a science fiction show.
I don't mind gritty Star Trek... just maybe have the other characters perform a larger role in Discovery... and write better plots!
And, yeah... Orville is better Star Trek than Discovery or Picard.
There has always been a seedy underbelly to the Federation. Just look at the Ferengi and the Orion Syndicate. We just never saw much of it because the shows revolved around what amounts to military ships who don't deal in that stuff much.
@@BeardFaceSuper at least the writers have the correct political opinion now. Rick berman would have been a trump lover. Gene was liberal. Star trek is liberal. Always has been, always will be.
@@Ottophil The thing is, there is no correct political view. Especially in the form that politics is in now. Trump was god awful. The democrats have been actin insane as well. Both sides are equally intolerant of the others views. As if one side can have all the right or wrong ideas.
you nailed it: they are so far Gene's vision that there's no coming back. yes, there was action, war, violence, murder, but Star Trek was about wits, dialogue, intelligent solutions, discussion, puzzles and exploration, which made the moments of war stand out (dominion war, the borg). even if they could manage to put the frame together: aka a spaceship, less action, more talk; i doubt Star Trek or Starfleet will ever come back. Somehow the people involved think Star Trek is Star War minus the Jedis. Especialy today there would be value in bringing this united vision of mankind back, the vision of brains, logic and compassion before swear-words, punches and shots. the other thing is that they destroyed a lot of people's best memories: Picard, Sisko, Janeway and co. were role-models, the way many of em were treated in the current iteration of Star Trek is anathema to their initial caracters. Picard's Picards is pretty much to opposite of what everyone thought or hoped he would be/or what he was. Just saying "it's a different timeline" is pathetic. It's "we got no clue what the original universe was about, but we got the franchise and some of the old actors...so fuck it".
The elephant in the room is the unasked question of why all the reboots and recent series were rubbish, even with massive budgets and the potential for stunning visuals that the old shows and even films could only dream of. The answer is uncomfortable. It's often said that sci fi tells more about when it was written than the time it portrays.
It also tells something about the people who wrote them. For example, have you seen the original Stargate film? Take a careful look at it; how many war crimes were committed by Kurt Russell? How many children died because of his actions? ....And how few viewers either noticed or even cared.
The problem from where I’m sitting is that they seem to keep ignoring fans. I seem to recall an interview with a producer or showrunner actively said that I didn’t watch all like Star Trek prior to taking this job.
I have seen some amazing fan produced content over the last decade. Some were so good that they should become official.
Yet the absolute dog pile that CBS keep churning out in that time period just shows that they don’t understand (or care about) their own fan base
@@ObeMossop spot on
@@bryanttillman I have seen the original Stargate film 5 years ago. I didn't like it; there's something wrong with it and Kurt Russell couldn't save it.
The Stargate series is better.
Imagine! Tom Paris becomes captain and Harry Kim is still an ensign!
Lol, that same thought crossed my mind too!
As SFDebris says: Poor dumb Harry!
And still scoring 0 with the girls.
That would still be more entertaining than STD
You get a promotion, you get a promotion, you get a promotion!
Harry get off the bridge.
I love American Ben but when it comes to Star Trek your thoughts weigh heavier to me. If I need Expanse content I know he's my guy. I've been wanting you specifically to tackle this issue thank you very much British Ben I look forward to this.
I'm only halfway through and already thank, thank you for telling it like it is.
I disagree... American Ben is annoying as fuck
@@KYoss68 I didn't say he wasn't I said he knows his Expanse. He has become more assertive & confident in his more recent work, it makes him less annoying & funnier. Annoying or not i love that guy, give him another shot, you might be in for a treat.
@@sketchtherapy1218 The horrible poetry really is distracting.
@KYoss68 Of course it is we're dudes it wasn't meant for us it was about this lady that got murkd named Benazir Bhutto/Avasaralla she was trying to do the peace thing like Artesia Som Deikun was trying to do in Gundam, We don't do the poetry thing my guy we fly the mobile suit NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION HAIL CASVAL REM DEIKUN HAIL ZEON ZUM DEIKUN SEIG ZEON SEIG ZEON SEIG ZEON!! We will drop Colonies on Australia, Nagasaki & Hiroshima LIBERTY OR DEATH!!! I'm sorry I got carried away. You get what I mean.
It is dying because of bad story telling and identity politics, fix it with good stories and teaching without bludgeoning people over the head with it.
It's dying because they're trying to make a Michael Bay movie instead of a Star Trek show.
Star Wars as the same identity politics to contend with and I imagine enshrine on the part of the people who produce it, its all about story telling, JJ Abrams vs. The Mandalorian.
Bad story telling, YES! TOS and early TNG had published Sci-fi authors writing scripts. They really need to get back to that.
Identity politics? NO. Trek has always been socially relevant.
@@baxterturnham9306 Going to disagree with you here. Star Trek offered social commentary on how differences don’t matter and we can work together to overcome. Identify politics by it’s very nature seeks to encourage tribalism and highlights our differences, pitting you versus them mentality.
In essence, it's Beverly Hills activism that appears to have swept into everything. Fundraisers with champagne and ballgowns clucking their tongues at injustice and rage when the Starbucks runs out of milk.
The REAL problem with Modern Star Trek is that it's forgotten how to be optimistic. The worst thing is, you occasionally do see glimmers of optimism in Discovery and Picard, but they're few and far between, buried under tons of the cynicism that's become far too ubiquitous in sci-fi these days.
Late Discovery is good... But I hate season one, and saw season 5 and liked it.
Didn't see anything between, mind you.
The profanity is so cringe. Kurtzman pats himself on the back for targeting his shows toward immature audiences. It’s gross.
Id totally dig it actually if it was JUST one character (looking at Reno, for being one of the few characters I actually like and who could pull it off) and everyone else is typical legacy TNG type characters who are just continuously bewildered by it.
Agreed. They need a thinking star trek for the hard core fans.
@@andrewsealey2236 no one thinks anymore. they just emote.
I swear a lot. A fucking lot actually... I just don't need profanity in Star Trek. It feels put of place and takes away from an already bad story. Kurtzman and jj need to ruin another franchise.
@@ChipsNCellos Yes... This is called emotional intelligence....
Eh I disagree with giving Star Trek the avengers treatment. That's just turning it into an action flick which I don't think Star Trek should be about. It can have action but Star Trek was always about exploring ideas, often about the human condition but also about whacky space anomalies. I'd like to bring back famous characters, but perhaps in a 'pass the torch' manner, or as you put it, Admirals helping the newer generation.
Yep, this is a terrible idea.
Like some kind of Children's series, where a famous Admiral get's stuck mentoring a bunch of scrappy kids in a derelict ship...
Have a ship and its crew go back in time to Ancient Sumeria, permanently, and do their best to improve humanity and prepare them for meeting aliens
This creates an Alternate timeline that is much better than the Original and Kelvin timelines
Season 1 ends with the crew and the Ancient humans meeting both the Vulcans and Romulans. Atheism vs Religion
Season 2 is forming a Federation with everyone, including the Borg and Dominion whom are portrayed very different and much more sensible. Immortality is the subplot
Season 3 is about a conspiracy to turn people into 'gods' and has Philosophical themes
I don't see it so much as a "bad idea", rather than the lowest bar.
True, stand alone star trek movies have always flown in the face of the traditional GR vision, employing action and violence at the expense of pragmatism and intelligent philosophical conflicts.
However, seeing the quality of sequel films and certain political ideologies ruining modern Hollywood films, I'd rather star trek start somewhere than fade away forever.
@@DonaldWWitt huh YEP that would be really bad. Wouldn't it?
The actor that plays Sisko says he’s done with the character.
This idea was good but it’s not a fix. It’s a scheme, but it’s not a sustainable Star Trek show, it’s wont “fix” trek. They need to be able to create the magic with a v new captain and a new crew. Like it was a new 90s series. Getting back to Roddenberry’s vision is a great way to start.
Ironically the same was said for Stewart. He wanted nothing more to do with Star Trek or his character. Yet here we are... Take that as you will. EDIT: Brent Spiner also had similar feelings on the subject yet he is also in STP.
Listening to the description this sounded so familiar to me. Like I heard this before. Then it came to me. This is the comic industry of the 90's with all the anti-heroes with bandoleers and guns blazing. Then people and the publishers realized. We don't want a Batman or Superman that kills. We want Heroes that are better than thugs.
Fans are speaking. Now we need the producers to listen. Give us Heroes again.
Star Trek has been broken ever since they broke the legacy timeline.
Got to love Picard having a Black dude being a racist to the Synthetics 🤦
How about a permanent time-travel journey in which the ship and crew are all Redshirts?
They accidentally go to a Parallel timeline's Earth in year 3100 BCE. They make contact with the Ancient Sumerians and teach them. Only one of the crew dies in Season 1
In Season 2 the Proto-federation is formed and humanity has spaceships thanks to the help of the Vulcans
@@JeanLucCaptain I’m sick to fucking death of hearing about racism every day of my life.
I totally agree
@@aldunlop4622 it's just a super ironic image. I doubt Kurtzman even thought of it.
You forgot the most important point: FIRE KURTZMAN!
And get rid of bad reboot.
Alex Klutzman has failed at just about every project he's ever worked on. He not only needs to be fired from Star Trek, but kicked out of Hollywood all together.
@Gorbax The Destroyer
RE: "Actually, raze Hollywood to the ground. Nuke it from orbit."
I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
--- Corporal Hicks; Aliens (1986)
And declare Discovery Non-Canon
@@spaceman081447 It'll be an explosion the size of Nebraska!
Get rid of Jar Jar Abrams, Alex Klutzman, and all of their Bad Reboot production cronies and you might salvage the show.
Yeah, you can't have people at the helm that don't even really like star trek
Don't insult JarJar; he's far more competent and intelligent than JJJerkoff. Alex Turdsman is just as bad as JJJerk.
@MGazT don't really know what your comment means. It sounds snarky but it also doesn't really make a whole lotta sense to me.
@MGazT you got that from my comment how? When did i say I didn't like them? How do you know they like Star Trek? They aren't faithful at all to the IP nor Roddenberry's vision. They like the brand recognition of Star Trek to make money but that's about it. Kurtzman even admitted at one point he never understood the draw of Star Trek and wasnt a fan of it growing up.
@@lancelot0274 Just ignore him. MGazT"s English doesn't seem that good.
Honestly, the farther we get from Enterprise, the more I think that show should have gotten three more seasons. Excellent story lines with characters that actually developed throughout the series plus great effects. Why was it canceled again???
It was cancelled because the guy in charge of the network at the time hated Star Trek on principle.
It got canceled because it started off with the "temporal cold war arc"...
I personally tried to like the series and everytime the tcw wasn't mentioned it had it's moments but as soon as that plot came up i lost interest. And propably a lot of other viewers as well. If they had brought that up after the audience would have developed a connection to the series it might have worked.
@@nemo99nemo83 The temporal cold war was forced on the writers by the people in charge. The writers had nothing to do with that, otherwise.
Enterprise suffered mismanagement by UPN, but also suffered from the same thing that the new shows do...fans are mad it isn't more of what they wanted, it was different and therefore bad...but go back and watch it, and it was a decent show. Not nearly as bad as people like to rag on it for. Not bad at all IMO. Complaining about it got into the zeitgeist and then that became the narrative but without people thinking about it. Also it have to complete in a newly fractured media landscape against BSG...and that show is some of the best Sci Fi ever.
Because Enterprise was rubbish and so bad even Braga shyed and walked away! And after Voyager that's saying something!
The crap that today is called Stsr Trek makes me look back now and appreciate Enterprise. I didn't then, but I do now.
Enterprise was bad. Really, really bad.
@@lakecountynaturalist7617 Hard dissagre, the first two seasons were good and showed a lot of potential, even the other two seasons had some decent episodes.
@@Solar_Sounds disagree both, it was indeed a awesome Show with great Potential and a nice Crew
@@lakecountynaturalist7617 Not season 4 after the Xindi episode. The Vulcan, Andorian, and Terra Prime episodes were great.
Ya I think TNg and ds9 spoiled the fans. They didn't realize how good they had and and how bad it could actually get.
The really disappointing thing about Picard is that it's the show that Patrick Stewart wanted to make.
I've read that his experiences on the set of Logan and how Xavier was portrayed gave him the idea to take Picard in the direction he's gone.
People think he is a smart guy, but Stewart is a leftist nutjob. Why do you think Picard in the TNG movies/Picard show is so different from Picard in the TNG show? That is Stewart's doing.
Actors are not what you think they are. They are professional fakers. Actors can sometimes make good directors, but typically if they always wanted to be a director (like Ron Howard).
More often than not they are bad writers and so so directors. Most actors live in a weirdo bubble too.
My favorite Coen Brothers film was "Hail Caesar" because it decided to offend everyone in Hollywood by saying they are nut cases, morons, sexmamiacs and sulking commie writers. I think they made the film just to see if critics would pan it. They did.
@Snake Plisken There's no accounting for taste, regardless of how poor.
@@pt29999 Roddenberry himself was pretty leftwing himself. The difference was he knew how to be subtle about it.
Star Trek needs to be more like Orville, but without the jokes. Discovery and Picard is visually interesting, but the narrative and development of the characters is so poor.
Bingo, although I'd take the Orville with the jokes.
Orville got a lot right - if you take away the slapstick humour theres a decent successor to star trek in there. Shows its not 'that' difficult to do right.
Star Trek always had a lot of humor and wit (with occasional slapstick) which I love so much (stone knifes and bear skins... what does God need with a Star Ship? ... root beer is so insidious ) and which is missing from Disco and Picard, basically 'Lower Decks' toned done and high browed up a fair bit. Ironically 'Lower Decks' is the closest to Old Trek.
Star Trek can have humour. I love every DS9 Ferengi episode. In fact, DS9 made me laugh the most despite being the darkest of TNG-era Trek. It'll always be my favourite.
How to fix Star Trek, force the writers to watch all seasons of The new Generation and Deep Space Nine
Sort of disagree. I agree with bringing Star Trek back to Gene Roddenberry's vision, but get new faces into the mix.
Disco was on track to do that cast was good, writing and art was bad.
I agree with this.
I couldn't stand Sonequa Martin-Green's character in The Walking Dead once they reached Alexandria, and I couldn't stand her STD character. Maybe she's a decent actress, but I have yet to see her in a good role.
@@bjturon I think you hit the nail on the head and something the video missed. The writing is just awful. It reminds me of CW or GoT season 8 writing where the characters only serve the purpose to progress the plot and comes off as lazy writing. Season long story arcs only work, imo, if we actually have character development. If we had tight writing like we see in The Expanse I think many of the fans can put up with rock music and the crew using foul language.
@@darwinxavier3516 there is no need to give her the benefit of the doubt. She's a terrible actress.
Personally, I loved the episodic style of Star Trek. That being said, most series did have a overlying arc, and that was great.
I also have to agree with a few people here. I feel that the writing has become very trashy. It's the fast food of writing; and like fast food, it may taste great to start, but you feel rough afterwards.
Get a fresh new series that's set after Voyager of even between DS9 and Voyager. There was a nice gap there.
Well, i also liked the episodic style but some more bigger storyarc would have been great like ENT season 4! That was great!!!
boot out Alex Kurtzman & Bad Robot from Star Trek franchise. That's a start for the right path.
Exactly.
Oh, its Bad Robot, I though JJ's company was called Bad Reboot
@@pt29999 I like your version better. More accurate.
Simple walk in to the writing room and say "you all fired get out" then hire someone who isn't on shitter 24/7
The biggest issue is that the current creative team at CBS are openly opposed to Roddenberry's vision. They want to use Star Trek to address contemporary social issues not in the universal, humanist manner Roddenberry would have endorsed, but instead in accordance with their own fairly hard line politics, and in their minds that means casting the Federation as a corrupt, broken society that still has all the social ills of our contemporary culture, except magnified in some cases, and only their notion of a hero can not so much bring justice back to a fallen civilisation, as impose 'true' justice on a culture that was never worth a damn to begin with. They have no love for Star Trek, no respect for the legacy of the franchise. When they look at the Star Trek of earlier eras, they see the intellectual product of the Straight, White, and male embodiment of all they think is wrong with society. A sexist, racist, and homophobic expression of patriarchal power in fiction, something that needs to be torn down and destroyed on screen in order to be replaced with something more 'enlightened', at least as they define such things.
Trying to convey to them that the Star Trek that went before wasn't perfect, as no creation of humanity is perfect, but was an earnest attempt to envision a better, more tolerant and forward looking future is pointless, since they have reached the point where they interpret any disagreement with their position as indicative of bigotry. If you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is not just wrong but evil, you will never be open to persuasion by any reasoned argument. As such, Star Trek cannot be saved while the current creative team remains in place. The only way to improve things is to let that entire team go and start again with people who don't share their fixed preconception that Star Trek, as it was at its height as a franchise, is an evil that must be destroyed. Maybe at some time in the future the members of that team will have reached the point where they can see the perspectives of others in a fair light and actually work collaboratively to make something worthwhile in the setting, but that will only come to pass if they are able to shed their extreme mindset, and I wouldn't' hold my breath waiting for that realisation to sink in if I were you.
Exactly this, i full agree, nothing more to say.
The current writers and CBS itself are just using Star Trek as a platform to express there own political hateful platform.
CBS has dated views but when the original Trek filmed, they were partially right of misogyny and religious bigotry but now they employ THAT on their shows!?
Exactly.
I just wrote my comment before reading yours and we have the same conclusion, however you put it more eloquently than me. I grew up on TNG and they were breaking barriers long before the forced agenda. The difference is they did it maturely and respecting the audience.
That's definitely a big part of it, but there is also the fact that the writers don't care about actual science... In a science fiction series.
Step 1: Fire everyone currently involved.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit.
@Snake Plisken It is, there is no worse show runner than JJ and Kurtzman! They use writers that have no idea and they dont even try to get physics right!
Remember when scientists had their part in writing and directing, when writers had to accept the timeline and the legacy?
Well, all thats gone!
I guess the cheapest way would be to get the makers of Phase 2, they would love to do it!
And they already had a proposal, by Seth MacFarlane, after they rejected him, he made a much better Star Trek show than the copyright owners!
Gimmie more DS9! It would be the perfect setting all the characters in your pitch would be able to use it as a hub for all of their individual stories, we get to find out what actually happened to Cisco, we get more Garak, more Quarke... so many enemies from Voyager to pick from, any of which could have found a way to get into the Alpha Quadrant by now...
Just because Discovery can curse, doesn't mean they should. I believe it would be a better standard to avoid it all together.
Then it wouldn’t be real. People curse in the real world no matter who you are or try to deny it. Your just going to have to accept the new generation of young people want something new and thats who the new director is shooting for. They have played the original lore too death time to let it go and modernize it
'to boldly go where no one has gone before' , would be a good beginning for a new series
give us characters that we can care about
Star Trek OS, TNG, DS9, Voy, ENT, gave us characters that lifted each other up, no one had all the answers, they had to work as a team to get the job done
Good ideas but CBS isn’t open to much good creativity.
star trek was about how to make our species great, but now there is only torpedoes go boom
Star Trek was so good because (nearly) every episode had a moral dilemma which made you think. This got a bit lost in the new series.
And not even just giving you a moral dilemma but the main characters didnt just go with their gut feeling on what was right it actually explored the entire dilemma and some times it doesnt even end the way we thought it would.
Cisco irradiated an entire planet to capture one person.
It has been dead since Enterprise ended, perhaps even before, someone has just reanimated its corpse and put a new, damaged, brain in it.
Star trek Frankenstein!
@@JEDAI501ST It’s pronounced Fronkensteen!
Discovery is such a load of crap. I wish I could unwatch it hahaha. I didn’t even bother watching Picard.
Lucky i didnt watch it and only 3 episodes or so of Picard, before i gave up.
saved you 10 hours. its was so bad. picard was a doddering fools and the rest were rejects from ghetto town
I checked out after a Starfleet Admiral said fuck
@IRONHILLdwarf I suffered all the way through to the third season. Glad I did cos it does have some redeeming features finally.
If only I could unwatch the first 2 car crashes.
@@daddystu7046 I thought it got worse and worse. Made it 1/2 way through season 3. Best episodes did not have much Michael in them. Lorca was great imo, I wanted him to be redeemed.
How about taking the franchise out from behind the fricking paywall and back into syndication on regular streaming services and local stations like during TNG's time?
@The high ground Filming and CGI is done after the script is completed. So making the show look crappy wouldn't affect the writing.
When the showrunner himself said he's not interested in making an entertaining show but just propaganda, it's not difficult to see what's happened.
This is right on point. Star Trek Diversity....er Discovery was when I couldn't take it anymore. The producers have already stated that they are not interested in what the old school Trekkies care about, only getting their message across.
Where did kurtzman say he was interested in 'making propaganda' ?
@@Scott-ig6nx Where have they stated they are not interested in what the old school trekkies care about ?
Been a fan of star trek since the early 80's and enjoy the new shows too even if a few things aren't perfect and picard had a couple of pointless and odd moments.
''Pizza cutter'' hahahaha true
So this video boils down to "It's not the star trek I remember so it must be broken"
Yeah, i got the same vibe. So Discovery used the F bomb...so what? In TNG, DS9 and VOY , you hear basically every swear word that was allowed on broadcast television at the time. In generations Data says "oh shit". The show runners always had to curtail to the medium there product was on so thats why we never hear the F-Bomb or other profanities that aren't allowed on TV or would jump the rating level of a movie. And the whole synthetic life thing is a cop out. In Measure of a Man they proved Data was sentient not all androids, that why we see Lore and B4 get dismantled because they don't have the same rights as Data and in Voyager they showed Starfleet using EMH's as manual laborers mining ore.
No, it’s terrible and that is why it is broken.
Star Trek (Kirk, Picard, up until Bakula) was ABOUT something. It showed a HOPEFUL future. The characters in current Trek efforts are anything but hopeful. The old shows were smart and made you consider things in an interesting way. The new show is about people crying, apparently.
@@kevinmartz3082 I'm confused, they've left S3 of Discovery with the crew trying to rebuild the hopeful and idealistic federation into what it once was and heal the fractures and divided factions of the galaxy. My understanding is that Discovery is an exploration of the idea of the federation being defeated, humans and vulcans taking a different socio-political course and the hopeful future remaking itself from that.
At one time, Star Trek was meant to bring people together with the idea that humans would evolve beyond petty bickering and stupid issues like skin color/sexual preference. Unfortunately, now, Star Trek like everything coming out of Hollywood is meant to divide and anger people. Don't think this is accidental, these writers/producers know exactly what they are doing. I'd say why but at this point it would just be a conspiracy theory. Just sit back and enjoy old episodes, it isn't going to get any better any time soon.
I should add that I like some of the New Trek stuff like Lower Decks, I just feel Discovery and Picard went backwards as far as the optimistic future of humanity. Also, it is never a good idea to insult part of your fan-base, then expect those same fans to watch your show.
naw, they are just lazy as shit.
Do tell of this conspiracy theory?
About slavery, there was an episode of TNG in which there were robots that were supposed to be used to enter tight corridors and repair the ship components. They were supposed to be sacrificed because the situation needed such sacrifice. However, Data claimed that the robots had a mind of their own and therefore opposed the idea of the robots being used as expendable workforce. Now, that was real Star Trek.
Basically, the writers of the new shows don't want to write a Star Trek story in the Star Trek universe.
They want to talk about something else and just using Star Trek IP to fool people into stories that would never happen in the Star Trek universe.
I don't really care about seeing old characters again, it often just feels like fan service and I think most of them got their stories wrapped up well enough. I think portraying futuristic optimism is something its still missing, that's what would differentiate it from most slows which are usually dystopian. Also I think people are expecting more 'hard sci fi' elements, where more effort is taken to make sure things are scientifically plausible or at least theoretical, like the expanse or interstellar. Star Trek technology has always been very plot dependent and inconsistent, not just across series but often episode to episode within a series so I'd like to see Star Trek do a bit of a soft reboot and retool on their tech.
The most important thing might be having a consistent message or theme. Next gen was basically an idealistic portray of the future, the message was this is what we can be at our best. DS9, imo the best written trek, took those premises in next gen and explored the nuances around them in interesting ways, like yes this is what humanity can be at its best, but there are other things you need to consider.
So I think the next series theme should be based around another aspect of utopian society, how do you keep it from declining for example or the nuances and limits of idealism etc.
CBS should take notes from Orville.
The Orville is a juvenile show which was made as a TRIBUTE to Star Trek. Just keep that in mind.
yes, to the old star trek series
@@RAdaltonracer It was made as a love letter to Star Trek. And in season 2 it stops being particularly juvenile. It's fun, campy, scifi, with a few obvious gags from McFarlane. I can live with the low-brow humour because it delivered some excellent scifi.
@@mikelovesbacon Oh don’t get me wrong I enjoy it too and think it’s great! I’m just saying that its not the original nor will it ever be. People love it because it’s a spoof.
@rian dalton I love Orville because it reminds me a lot of the original star trek and TNG mixed together.
For whatever it's worth, I felt like the heart just went out of the franchise. I didn't mind having a nightclub type environment on a starship. Personally, I do love to dance.
I don't particularly mind swearing, but I do wish that they'd keep it to where it's really stressful.
The synthetic life thing in Picard I didn't mind so much, as it's supposed to be somehow inherently different to Data.
I also don't much mind telling the smaller stories in newer series. Sometimes smaller stories, if told well, can be really satisfying.
I do dislike the visual retcons in discovery. Most of the federation ships are displeasing to me
It's not just the ship or the old cast, it's about testing the crew especially the captain with ideals and themes in an UNBIASED maner
Greetings fellow trekkies from the bridge of the Rocinante... Cmon over, the water is delicous.
I still think British Ben needs to make a "Generation Trek" channel.
He can release content at his pace alongside his other channels.
Port over his older content to re-release it on the "Generation Trek" channel as filler while he releases new content as well.
Tell us how you REALLY feel!
Look, people can quibble over tone, direction, etc. (i.e. DS9 was a rather controversial departure), but it really comes down to this: The current showrunners (with an exception or two, such as Mike McMahan) have been running this franchise for several years, but to this day, as far as I can tell, ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to WATCH any of the classic series they are writing sequels and prequels to. They simply cannot be bothered to learn the canon. That is the root of the of the problem. DS9 was able to depart from the expected tone and setting, successfully, BECAUSE the showrunners knew and RESPECTED the canon inside and out.
I think that is part of it. They don't want to tell "Star Trek" stories. They want to use the Star Trek universe to tell their post-modernist neo-marxist stories. Think about what was said in this video, that Roddenberry's Star Trek is a near utopian future where mankind has solved most social problems. Roddenberry envisioned that once near unlimited energy was available and the means to convert that energy into virtually any raw material that competition over resources would end. What would evolve when man was no longer required to work for survival would be to work for personal enrichment and for the betterment of all of mankind. Roddenberry considered this the pinnacle of Western civilization.
But the showrunners, writers and producers are ideologically post-modernists and neo-marxists. These philosophies posit that Western civilization is an oppressive White patriarchy built upon the slavery and exploitation of minorities and the oppression of women. And just like how Rey cannot receive training from Luke because that would validate the patriarchy of Star Wars so the Federation cannot be seen as enlightened because that would justify modern Western culture.
And the result is a batch of contradictions because the philosophies of post-modernism and neo-marxism are fraught with contradictions. New Trek with its emphasis of women in all the positions of power is not the bright and hopeful future that Roddenberry envisioned but rather a dark and dismal dystopia. New Trek is arguably misogynist in that way. It is almost as if the authors are claiming that putting women in charge is a bad idea. Take ST:Picard for example. Who should the audience embrace as the female protagonist? Is it Admiral F-bomb whose xenophobia of Romulans contradicts the lessons learned in _The Undiscovered Country_ and _Nemesis?_ Is it constantly vomiting Agnes the murderer of her lover Bruce Maddox? Is it the treacherous Commodore O-face? Is it the enlightened Romulan warrior nun who discriminated against Elnor because of his gender? Is it Seven of Nine the homicidal Borg? Is it the psychopathic incest twin, Narissa? Is it the genocidal android girl, Soji? Or is it Raffi the drug addicted drunkard who abandoned her child and is so jealous of Picard's furniture yet is too lazy or stupid to push a button on a replicator and pop out as many of his chairs and tables as she wants given she has a complete set of patterns for his entire chateau?
You are correct that they need someone who respects the canon in charge of Star Trek. But they also need someone who respects Western culture and is not going to use Star Trek as a means to attack its foundations because modern Western culture is the foundation of Star Trek.
DS9 still managed to maintain that air of optimism even when it got into darker subject matter. You always knew Starfleet was (mostly) the good guys. Even when we got some shady goings-on with Section 31 and Admiral Leighton's coup, you still understood that the vast majority of people still believed in the ideals of the Federation and wouldn't/didn't approve of what those aberrations were doing. There was always the idea that everyone sort of looked to the Federation as the cavalry who would ride in to save the day, the guys who would show up at your planet after a disaster with supplies and aid, and the ones who wouldn't take unfair advantage of you if you asked for their help. Yes, the Federation and the characters were a little over-idealized at times. But the Federation got a good swift kick in its complacency in DS9, and it became the awakened sleep giant. But you never got the sense that they forgot who they were.
Today's Trek? Nothing like that. Trek has lost its identity.
@@ScaryBaldMan Precisely. When TNG started the network wanted personal conflict between the crew because that is what defines a drama. But Roddenberry was against humans having conflicts with one another except on rare occasions. Instead he wanted the conflict to be with alien races and the solution to not be the use of force but rather the application of reason and the lessons learned by humanity as it became enlightened. Sure there was some conflict between human characters but it was usually due to their failure to live up to ideals of Starfleet and the Federation. Adm. Pressman in _The Pegasus_ is a good example. The conflict he creates is not because anyone is evil but rather because they abandoned their principles and created the problems which resulted from their illegal cloaking research. But this philosophy that absent a competition over resources that humanity could become enlightened and peaceful is anathema to the post-modernists in charge of Star Trek today who view humanity as just as petty and bigoted in the far future as they imagine it is today.
No sorry, the actors are all WAY past their prime now. The Orville didn't require cast in their 60s and beyond. If CBS could have made a good show they would have by now. It's dead, Jim.
The Orville is the new star trek....just watch that.
I hope disney doesn't ruin it.
Your having a laugh aren't you ? It's Shite
It's truly more Star Trek than ST:D
Any word on a third season of The Orville?
@@xwasp58 yeah.. even Red Dwarf is better than the Orville . And what's more , unlike the Orville the humour is actually funny.
Kurtzman. That's why it's dying. Insulting the fans for criticising it didn't help either.
It was dying before Kurtzman got involved.
@@AT2Productions But Kurtzman shot it in the legs 3 more times, so it is even more of a bloody mess crawling around and crying for mercy. Compared to that JJ did good work....
Discovery started to change in the second season for the better and then season 3 that was all thrown out the airlock and it gave us the middle finger to everyone especially to Roddenberry, dam you Kurtzman
The new star trek should go back to its roots and start with a plot. That's a good start in the right direction.
Kurtzman "wtf is a plot?"
You really hit it on the head. One of the things I loved about Babylon 5 was its darker view of the future. Star Trek, however, should never be stylized like that. The current shows are abysmal.
SOOOO Agree with this video! Thanks so much for telling it like it is. I started Picard and that first episode where the Admiral drops that "Sheer F'ing Hubris" line, and it was so out of character for Star Trek, it totally took me out of the show. It is horrible. This reason is why Pike was the only character to receive praise from the fans - he was the only one that felt like a true Trek character.
Yeah agreed, Anson Mount did a great job of playing that character. One of my favorite lines was when Burnham mentions some “structure” and he says “It’s a church Burnham!”
Each and every time i see something from Discovery or Picard i always think it is from the mirror universe
Alternate timeline. It’s the only way to be invested.
But instead of them being evil, they're just shit.
I would be totally fine w/ DISCO and PIC being in the Kelvinverse, and the Prime universe still waiting for excellent writers to tell stories there.
Simple. Get rid of kurtzman. That's it
Why Star Trek is dying? Because its being made with "current year standards".
How can it be fixed? Stop being made with "current year standards".
So... Return to the 60s? TOS is an enjoyable bit of camp television because the plots reflect the era they were produced. If anything remotely similar was developed today, the producers would excoriated for how inconsistent the core plot points are with how humans actually function.
I absolutely love "Balance of Terror", but the reactions of the characters with each new plot point is melodramatic to the point of absurdity. BUT, it reflects the time in which it was developed, much in the same way Paris and Kim enjoyed Captain Proton. Trying to tread backwards to a show developed in the 60s (and even those from the 90's) is absurd.
@@jonathoncgable9172 Agreed. Kirk's behaviour towards women would be seen as unprofessional today.
Or just watch Next Generation again and again and cry like the rest of us ? Ahaha. Oh well, wish that wasn't so painful to say !
I agree with how Star Trek Discovery and especially Picard stray from Roddenberry’s vision but I honestly don’t care about that they’re listening to contemporary music instead of classical music
Sorry, Star Trek is dead. JJ is now moving onto Superman, to kill him off as well. I’m wondering how many franchises can one director kill.
hopefully all, that way we can end this resurrection, reimagination, spin-offs, alternative temporal lines, etc., etc., of the most famous characters and allow new histories to be told, rather than bazillions reenactements of superman, batman, etc.
God JJ is like a parasite now.
JJ almost killed Star Wars also
@@Er_Guille Kathleen Kennedy stab Star Wars to dead!!
@@carlosdgutierrez6570 That won't happen, because the rate of profit has become so low now that the only thing they can do is create remakes, reboots and use franchises, because anything original or creative is not guaranteed to make enough of a profit anymore.
The Rate of Profit has the tendency to fall no matter what.
I disagree with you on many points specifically about how you insinuate that older trek didn’t have humans/starfleet officers that were disillusioned. Voyager literally starts with a terrorist crew joining forces with a starfleet crew.
And I can appreciate the dark future storyline as long as we work our way back to the light.
Think about DS9 which gave us a while new vision of what start trek could be. A stationary vessel. a show more focused on true character development over a multiple season arc. A war-time show, starfleet at war. I think you’re short sighting everything about what Star Trek could be.
I will give you the lack of ship love or the fact that the ships aren’t personified. But your other points are a bit trivial.
Spot on! , its just another typical click bait title fishing for some views while conveniently ignoring that these very themes exist in other star trek shows.
Kate Mulgrew ruined voyager they could not have picked a worse actress if they were trying.
Forget Star Trek - It's dead Jim - The Orville is the new Star Trek. Seth MacFarlane understands Star Trek and Star Wars way better than Jar Jar Abrams
Orville is over and not coming back i thought....
@@pt29999 it's just been picked up for a 3rd season. I'm going to hope that it'll finally live up to its potential 😊
The Orville is just Seth McFarlane's cringy fanfiction. I gave it a chance, but it was a complete disappointment.
It's sad but true that something that is basically fanfiction is better than all the new Star Trek shows with the possible exception of Lower Decks. Orville, especially in season 2, is real, campy, optimistic, scifi. I love it.
@@mikelovesbacon not everything is supposed to be campy, it’s not the 60’s, it’s time for something new but you people can’t handle anything new
This Video is Spot on!
Other so called Star Trek TH-camrs, who defend "new Trek", should Watch this and they might think about the current state of Star Trek in a more Critical way.
Only one Thing I disagree on is a Potential Return of Sisco. His Arc ended in a glorious and sad way... Just how it should BE! Never Take that away. 🤘