Perfect timing on getting this car to test. Just finished reading the 6speed manual Supra article in GRM. Pretty impressed at what the M2 accomplished.
The Supra and M2 were both on the same size tire: 275fr and 295 rear. But the Supra wore Michelin Pilot Super Sports while the M2 wore Pilot Sport 4Ss, making it's win that much more impressive.
@@kobedabest In most of our testing, the Pilot Super Sports that the Supra wears are slightly faster than the Pilot Sport 4Ss on the M2. Both have a fairly narrow range of temperature they like to work in, but lap for lap the PSS usually has the edge on time.
I have 2023 m2 and c8. I like the c8 on track way more but m2 does have top end advantage on track and drag strip. I ran them same day, same track so 0 doubt it is faster. m2 just don't build confidence for me while driving on track. c8 just easier and easier the better for me
The fact that the A90 Supra is even being compared to the 2023 M2 is a compliment to the Supra. The M2 is supposed to be way better specially with it's S58 engine and twin turbos.
They both clearly share a LOT of DNA. Unsurprisingly, the Supra is edgier and the M2 is more of a tourer, but you can't argue with the performance of either.
@@thegreenberetlife0191 Not sure where you are located, but I’m in Southern California and the M2 is not as much as the A90 Supra. I have not seen a G87 M2 under $62k which you can find an A90 Supra for.
I think you found the flaw. The weight can be worked around, but it still exists, and it's going to take a toll on those big 19-inch tires and expensive brake pads and rotors. It's pretty well-balanced, so I think it won't be eating single corners, but instead of having to replace, say, a left front every weekend you'll be replacing four tires every 4-5 track days and that's going to add up just the same. Boy those are going to be 4-5 fun track days, though.
What are the model and size of tires be used on both cars? Also this track is obviously giving advatange to high HP cars, just few corners and only one is sort of tight, if same tire applied on both cars no surprise M2 wins.
The Supra and M2 were both on the same size tire: 275fr and 295 rear. But the Supra wore Michelin Pilot Super Sports while the M2 wore Pilot Sport 4Ss, making its win that much more impressive.
I am the very satisfied owner of the new blue 2024 BMW M2 Manual and I find your review informative and reassuring because I compared it to the Supra and almost purchased it over the Beamer. The Supra is a wonderful automobile too but my dealer experience was much better on the BMW than Toyota. Dealer mark up and games played a role but it ultimately was the look and feel of the car that won my purchase. It just feels and looks solidly made and of a higher overall quality than the Supra. Another thing that earned my business was the S58 in the M2 vs the B58 in the Supra. I just feel the S58 is in a different league as a high performance engine.
We were honestly a bit shocked at how much faster the M2 was than the Supra. The thrust of that S58 is just epic and somehow BMW has defied physics to make the objectively heavy and large M2 nimble and light on its feet. Still love both cars, but the M2 is a big, pleasant surprise here.
The supra is just a z4 m40i. It's shitty. I don't really like bmw but I'd definitely take the m2. Much more refined and a better chassis. Only thing is that supra has better manual box
Would be interesting for you to test an automatic Supra for a benchmark time. I hit the track for enjoyment so whatever performance advantages this have over the prettier and more playful F87 dont matter to me
Just looking at the data on our Supra test, there's .4-ish seconds of dead space lost to shifting on each lap. And you might get another little bump from the more favorable gear rations of the auto in a couple sections (although the manual Supra is geared VERY well for our test track). But, yeah, just eliminating that time the clutch is depressed shaves off a lot of the difference. Does't quite get the Supra there, but it's not insignificant.
I kinda disagree with the data analysis here. It looks like most of the gains on corner exit were due to a lower minimum speed and getting back on power earlier. It seems like the M2 was just driven better through a couple of turns and gained all of the rest of the time in shifts.
I’m reluctant about trading my 6-speed M2C for a G87. Seems the G87 is more clinical in going about its business on street and track. The most endearing aspect of my F87 is its liveliness and sense of humor. If I’m going for more clinical speed and poise, I’d sooner buy a 718 or 991. Great analysis here. Thanks, Grassroots! Always love your content, whether written or video.
Thank you! This car might not have the cat-like reflexes of your F87, but it makes up for it in rock solid stability and monster exit speeds. it's husky, and there's times you're aware of it, but it's rarely a penalty, just something you need to be aware of.
I love it and I have on order. What I wish for, eliminate some of the out of this world tech stuff they put into the M2 if it saves a few pounds. Also I have driven the manual Supra and the shifter is definitely better. I wish BMW just use that manual that is in the Supra. Conclusion, it an incredible car but if it had the Supra's manual and 150lbs lighter (which I think can be done if BMW really puts their minds to it) this car would not be incredible, it would be epic.
Philosophically we agree here, but I'm not sure that's the world we live in anymore. Maybe it will come back someday with better materials technology, but I think the days of one-ton Elises and 2200lb Miatas are gone for a while. Kind of a bummer, but at least the OEMs are figuring out how to build some dynamics into the behemoths they're building these days.
If you like driving 3900 lb SUVs the G87 M2 is the car for you! 108 inch wheel base this thing is BIG that's only 3 inches shorter than an E39 5 series eeeeeeeek Hard pass also that front end angry birds 🤮
what is wrong with weight if it doesn't feel that heavy? My Taycan weights almost 2300 kg and it feels like a max 2 ton car. I dont care about weight, only how it is to drive.
@@peterhammer4644 Well, you can hide the driver's perception of the weight, but you still have to obey the laws of physics. Changing directions and slowing something with that much inertia is going to take a toll on consumables quicker than it is on a lighter car. But, yeah, BMW has done amazing work in making the car feel responsive and downright nimble, despite its mass.
@@Grassrootsmotorsportscan you provide a link to where the M2 nearly runs down a z51 c8 corvette? I have the new M2 and am thinking of selling it for that model corvette.
I liked the previous Gen m2 but ever since they did the whole huge buck teeth grille with the hard R design language, which obviously stands for Racing, I hate bmws and I own a z3 coupe. #antibmw-bmwclub
@@peterhammer4644My M240i did 12.1 stock. It's close. Trap speed I give you that, the M2 is way higher. Still, after a tune the M240i can do high 10s too.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports same reason the brz/86 has less power than the WRX and 4 cyl supra. Same reason the cayman is slower than the 911. These companies are afraid to actually make good products because it'll cast a shadow over their other offerings and their entire branding hierarchy.
@@sergiovromero7781 I made a comment saying toyota doesn't make an engine close to the B58. That was wrong. The LC500 has a good amount of power, but it's an NA V8. No way toyota will invest in big power turbo 6.
I’ve tried to like this car & want to appreciate it, but the exterior design os downright offensive IMO. Same with the M4 …. The front fascia in particular is just too notchy. I greatly prefer the previous gen M2C in Hockenheim Silver.
I mean, it is what it is. This is the track we test on and we have data for dozens of cars on, so it's a reasonable yardstick, but it's still a limited data set. Could you find a situation where the Supra is the equal or better of the M2 in as-delivered condition? Maybe? But look at those data traces again. The M2, even on theoretically less grippy tires, isn't giving up much to the Supra in most phases of cornering. It loses hundredths of a second in corner entry, but is equal or better in mid corner and exit, and the moment you give it ANY room to stretch its legs it replaces those lost hundredths with gained tenths. So my point here is even on a "handling" track, the M2 stays close enough (if it drops behind at all) to exploit is power advantage when given any chance. I'm just not sure the Supra is going to run down the M2 on any track where you're using 3rd and 4th gear. Now, after 4-5 laps when the M2s tires are critically overheated from slinging around two tons of meat...
@Grassrootsmotorsports thanks for the reply. I don't normally watch your videos, but was bummed to see such a power-heavy track. Was hoping for a fairer track test. Dont have anything for/against either cars other than the new M2 looks rather ugly. Drove one a few days ago, the chassis is quite the sophisticated thing.
Great driver, but the looks are the killer. The only decent looking car they make these days is the Z4. Just can't get behind the styling of their newest models! The Zupra is quick but even that car has looks only a mother (or the mkiv movie star lover bois) could love.
Trust me coming from a 2023 Supra 6MT owner, MKIV fanboys and owners don't love us MKVs. We are like the bastard child or stepchild that may never be considered a full part of the family because of the bmw collaboration. I think the M2 CS coming out soon will look better than this M2.
BMW makes a lot of good looking cars. The F90, 3-series Touring, G81. Actually I personally dont like the latest Z4 model at all. The older was far superior regarding looks.
Perfect timing on getting this car to test. Just finished reading the 6speed manual Supra article in GRM. Pretty impressed at what the M2 accomplished.
Do both the Supra and this M2 wear the same tire? If different, how do you think they'd compare wearing the same?
The Supra and M2 were both on the same size tire: 275fr and 295 rear. But the Supra wore Michelin Pilot Super Sports while the M2 wore Pilot Sport 4Ss, making it's win that much more impressive.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports How is it more impressive? Isn't the PS 4s better tires than the Supra tires?
@@kobedabest In most of our testing, the Pilot Super Sports that the Supra wears are slightly faster than the Pilot Sport 4Ss on the M2. Both have a fairly narrow range of temperature they like to work in, but lap for lap the PSS usually has the edge on time.
This is truly one car that makes a grown man cry from joy and happiness!
Great video. How does the car compare to the C8? Is it a more fun car to drive on a curvy backroad or would you prefer the C8?
I have 2023 m2 and c8. I like the c8 on track way more but m2 does have top end advantage on track and drag strip. I ran them same day, same track so 0 doubt it is faster. m2 just don't build confidence for me while driving on track. c8 just easier and easier the better for me
The fact that the A90 Supra is even being compared to the 2023 M2 is a compliment to the Supra. The M2 is supposed to be way better specially with it's S58 engine and twin turbos.
They both clearly share a LOT of DNA. Unsurprisingly, the Supra is edgier and the M2 is more of a tourer, but you can't argue with the performance of either.
The Supra is the same price…
@@thegreenberetlife0191 Not sure where you are located, but I’m in Southern California and the M2 is not as much as the A90 Supra. I have not seen a G87 M2 under $62k which you can find an A90 Supra for.
how about an mr2 update?!
The wiring harness got shipped to the UK for conversion. We got too bogged down in real life to do all those pin outs ourselves.
That looked like a fun lap.
Honestly I was shocked after my first warmup how fast it was. It's just so easy to drive.
I thought my 3800# E34 M5 was too chunky for best track fun, but at least had a useful back seat.
I don't know who is win charge of the laws of physics these days, but they are are letting them be stretched a lot.
I wonder what the result would've been with a manual M2.
Loving the Jack Black analogy 😂. Joking aside, great review, very insightful, objective and helpful. 🙏
Can't hide weight. No matter what anyone or any brochure says. The weight is there and the consumables will let you know in a hurry.
I think you found the flaw. The weight can be worked around, but it still exists, and it's going to take a toll on those big 19-inch tires and expensive brake pads and rotors. It's pretty well-balanced, so I think it won't be eating single corners, but instead of having to replace, say, a left front every weekend you'll be replacing four tires every 4-5 track days and that's going to add up just the same. Boy those are going to be 4-5 fun track days, though.
What are the model and size of tires be used on both cars? Also this track is obviously giving advatange to high HP cars, just few corners and only one is sort of tight, if same tire applied on both cars no surprise M2 wins.
The Supra and M2 were both on the same size tire: 275fr and 295 rear. But the Supra wore Michelin Pilot Super Sports while the M2 wore Pilot Sport 4Ss, making its win that much more impressive.
I am the very satisfied owner of the new blue 2024 BMW M2 Manual and I find your review informative and reassuring because I compared it to the Supra and almost purchased it over the Beamer. The Supra is a wonderful automobile too but my dealer experience was much better on the BMW than Toyota. Dealer mark up and games played a role but it ultimately was the look and feel of the car that won my purchase. It just feels and looks solidly made and of a higher overall quality than the Supra. Another thing that earned my business was the S58 in the M2 vs the B58 in the Supra. I just feel the S58 is in a different league as a high performance engine.
We were honestly a bit shocked at how much faster the M2 was than the Supra. The thrust of that S58 is just epic and somehow BMW has defied physics to make the objectively heavy and large M2 nimble and light on its feet. Still love both cars, but the M2 is a big, pleasant surprise here.
The supra is just a z4 m40i. It's shitty. I don't really like bmw but I'd definitely take the m2. Much more refined and a better chassis. Only thing is that supra has better manual box
Would be interesting for you to test an automatic Supra for a benchmark time. I hit the track for enjoyment so whatever performance advantages this have over the prettier and more playful F87 dont matter to me
Just looking at the data on our Supra test, there's .4-ish seconds of dead space lost to shifting on each lap. And you might get another little bump from the more favorable gear rations of the auto in a couple sections (although the manual Supra is geared VERY well for our test track). But, yeah, just eliminating that time the clutch is depressed shaves off a lot of the difference. Does't quite get the Supra there, but it's not insignificant.
I kinda disagree with the data analysis here. It looks like most of the gains on corner exit were due to a lower minimum speed and getting back on power earlier. It seems like the M2 was just driven better through a couple of turns and gained all of the rest of the time in shifts.
I’m reluctant about trading my 6-speed M2C for a G87. Seems the G87 is more clinical in going about its business on street and track. The most endearing aspect of my F87 is its liveliness and sense of humor. If I’m going for more clinical speed and poise, I’d sooner buy a 718 or 991. Great analysis here. Thanks, Grassroots! Always love your content, whether written or video.
Thank you! This car might not have the cat-like reflexes of your F87, but it makes up for it in rock solid stability and monster exit speeds. it's husky, and there's times you're aware of it, but it's rarely a penalty, just something you need to be aware of.
The f87 chassis are pretty dog shit. The g87 are just much better. Round track and they don't have terminal oversteer
Previous gen m2 prices have just 📈
I love it and I have on order. What I wish for, eliminate some of the out of this world tech stuff they put into the M2 if it saves a few pounds. Also I have driven the manual Supra and the shifter is definitely better. I wish BMW just use that manual that is in the Supra. Conclusion, it an incredible car but if it had the Supra's manual and 150lbs lighter (which I think can be done if BMW really puts their minds to it) this car would not be incredible, it would be epic.
Being nearly 4000 lbs is unacceptable for any sports car. It's ok for touring and cruiser cars.
Philosophically we agree here, but I'm not sure that's the world we live in anymore. Maybe it will come back someday with better materials technology, but I think the days of one-ton Elises and 2200lb Miatas are gone for a while. Kind of a bummer, but at least the OEMs are figuring out how to build some dynamics into the behemoths they're building these days.
It ain't that bad. Not even much heavier than the f87. Currently has super good lap times from what I saw
If you like driving 3900 lb SUVs the G87 M2 is the car for you!
108 inch wheel base this thing is BIG
that's only 3 inches shorter than an E39 5 series
eeeeeeeek
Hard pass
also that front end angry birds
🤮
No lies detected here. However, somehow the car uses that unlikely combo to nearly run down a C8 Z51. Hard to argue with the clock.
would get one over a supra all day, evey day
what is wrong with weight if it doesn't feel that heavy? My Taycan weights almost 2300 kg and it feels like a max 2 ton car. I dont care about weight, only how it is to drive.
@@peterhammer4644 Well, you can hide the driver's perception of the weight, but you still have to obey the laws of physics. Changing directions and slowing something with that much inertia is going to take a toll on consumables quicker than it is on a lighter car. But, yeah, BMW has done amazing work in making the car feel responsive and downright nimble, despite its mass.
@@Grassrootsmotorsportscan you provide a link to where the M2 nearly runs down a z51 c8 corvette? I have the new M2 and am thinking of selling it for that model corvette.
I liked the previous Gen m2 but ever since they did the whole huge buck teeth grille with the hard R design language, which obviously stands for Racing, I hate bmws and I own a z3 coupe. #antibmw-bmwclub
4.1 auto and 4.3 (best case) manual. Meanwhile, the m240i is 3.6 😅
well its an x-drive. What's surprising about that? 1/4 11.8 for M2, the M240i will not get close to that.
@@peterhammer4644My M240i did 12.1 stock.
It's close. Trap speed I give you that, the M2 is way higher. Still, after a tune the M240i can do high 10s too.
To me, this just means BMW needs to stop treating the supra like a 2nd tier customer car and give it the S58.
The corporate politics behind this decision must be delicious.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports same reason the brz/86 has less power than the WRX and 4 cyl supra. Same reason the cayman is slower than the 911. These companies are afraid to actually make good products because it'll cast a shadow over their other offerings and their entire branding hierarchy.
Or maybe Toyota should build its own engine so doesn’t get treated like a second class car!
@@sergiovromero7781 I made a comment saying toyota doesn't make an engine close to the B58. That was wrong. The LC500 has a good amount of power, but it's an NA V8. No way toyota will invest in big power turbo 6.
I’ve tried to like this car & want to appreciate it, but the exterior design os downright offensive IMO. Same with the M4 …. The front fascia in particular is just too notchy. I greatly prefer the previous gen M2C in Hockenheim Silver.
The new car is deceptive because the proportions are so similar to the previous model, but everything is just so much bigger.
so if you mod a supra it will corner better and win in straights for a lower price
That M2 is quite impressive. Of course BMW vs. BMW, the full M version is gonna win. Definitely my choice.
Wrong! A nearly 4000lb car can never win in driving enjoyment and sporting intention. 🤦
@ytsux9259 Wrong. It can and does. Proven. Maybe try rewatching the vid. Plus I've driven one. Smiles for miles.
It's much easier to add HP than to reduce weight.
Yeah but sooner or later you get to that next corner and all that mass make itself known.
3900#! No thanks.
3750 manual, 3800 auto
@@hpickettz34 Everything I've seen is #3814 manual, #3867 automatic.
On the other hand, 1:16.79, so, thanks? I don't know what demon magic they're using to break the laws of physics, but some them seem to be working.
Lol, exactly 1:16.79… Beautiful car, great review!
For the younger folks, replace "Orson Welles" with "Chris Farley" and "Gregory Hines" with "Simone Biles".
Did we forget we're on Earth with gravity? You can keep that beluga whale 🐋
😂
I think of it as chunky scion TC who “used to lift”
It didn't forget about gravity, but occasionally it acts as though it simply doesn't care about it.
I guess I missed the part where at the end of a race they add time to the winner’s car bc it was too heavy
@@sportbikejesusyea. That usually happens during the race. It's called tire-wear and brake fade.
Speaking of two tons…
Dumb comparison with track times on a power track...like duh who woulda thunk the M2 with 80-ish more horsepower would be faster??!!
I mean, it is what it is. This is the track we test on and we have data for dozens of cars on, so it's a reasonable yardstick, but it's still a limited data set. Could you find a situation where the Supra is the equal or better of the M2 in as-delivered condition? Maybe? But look at those data traces again. The M2, even on theoretically less grippy tires, isn't giving up much to the Supra in most phases of cornering. It loses hundredths of a second in corner entry, but is equal or better in mid corner and exit, and the moment you give it ANY room to stretch its legs it replaces those lost hundredths with gained tenths. So my point here is even on a "handling" track, the M2 stays close enough (if it drops behind at all) to exploit is power advantage when given any chance. I'm just not sure the Supra is going to run down the M2 on any track where you're using 3rd and 4th gear.
Now, after 4-5 laps when the M2s tires are critically overheated from slinging around two tons of meat...
@Grassrootsmotorsports thanks for the reply. I don't normally watch your videos, but was bummed to see such a power-heavy track. Was hoping for a fairer track test. Dont have anything for/against either cars other than the new M2 looks rather ugly. Drove one a few days ago, the chassis is quite the sophisticated thing.
I guess the good thing is that while driving it you can't see how freaking ugly it is.
Yea but it’s fugly.
It grew on us. But, yeah, it's still no E46 M3.
It is for sure more uglier than a Supra, hell than other cars ...
Toyota made a mess that can't be cleaned up with getting BMW to build the Supra.
Great driver, but the looks are the killer. The only decent looking car they make these days is the Z4. Just can't get behind the styling of their newest models! The Zupra is quick but even that car has looks only a mother (or the mkiv movie star lover bois) could love.
Trust me coming from a 2023 Supra 6MT owner, MKIV fanboys and owners don't love us MKVs. We are like the bastard child or stepchild that may never be considered a full part of the family because of the bmw collaboration. I think the M2 CS coming out soon will look better than this M2.
BMW makes a lot of good looking cars. The F90, 3-series Touring, G81. Actually I personally dont like the latest Z4 model at all. The older was far superior regarding looks.