Cheers, Quinn - I love your channel man and I also love Merphy's. I'm kind of in her boat at the moment having read Dune only one time but definitely feel that I will read it at least a few more times. Not to mention that I've only read the first book.
The best line from Herbert was at a college talk. "I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: May be dangerous to your health." It beautifully sums up what its about. Paul, with all his foresight still makes decisions that put billions in jeopardy. The horrors of purposefully placed prophecy that can and will be exploited and what its followers might do despite the wishes of those they follow.
"What do you think the hero of your favourite sci-fi/fantasy series gets up to between books 1 and 2?" "Kills every living thing on 90 planets, enacts brutal terror campaigns against another 500 planets, and exterminates 40 different religions down to the last man, woman and child. Total deaths: 61 billion."
"Err. What about between books 2 and 3?" "Wanders the desert as a blind exile." "Oh, the people depose him and punish him for his crimes?" "Haha, no, they love him and worship him as the greatest man who ever lived." "... Do I even want to ask about books 3 and 4?" "He's dead by then, but his bastard son rules the universe with an iron fist for 3'500 years as an immortal god-tyrant, stifling trade and creative expression, and enacting elaborate breeding programs." "Wow." "It's okay though, it was all for the greater good."
Yes, he hated populists. And he is right. People tend to trust those who seem more like us. Politicians are aware of this and some of them - the craftiest and most cunning - are able to emulate that, but keep to their essence.
I read this series out of order. Read the last book first, but could still understand alot since it felt more like reading events of a real place not a story. Then found books 3 then 2, then finally read book 1. But because I didn't read it in order, I never saw Paul as a hero.
It was kind of ironically interesting reading Dr. Yueh’s agonised internal monologue, knowing that history would remember him as a treacherous monster to the point that there would be children’s songs about how villainous he was.
The betrayal you mention in the book was considered impossible due to mental conditioning the character had that was supposed to prevent him from ever doing any harm under any circumstances. Even the people who managed to override his programming weren't sure how they did it.
I take it that the Dr. was able to tell himself that the Atridies coulnd't beat the Harkonnens, so the best he could do was help the duke get revenge with his last breath.
SPOILER: That actually kind of bugged me on my reading, because "people with this conditioning are incapable of betrayal or harm UNLESS YOU KIDNAP AND THREATEN THEIR LOVED ONES" doesn't seem like deep or powerful anti-betrayal conditioning to me. Holding someone's spouse hostage is a pretty classic way of forcing them to do horrible things. It's like having a superhero whose weakness is "weapons".
Like, I have to wonder -- has anybody else figured out that Suk conditioning has this incredibly ordinary weakness? Are the Harkonnens REALLY the first people to realize this worked? If his weakness was something really obscure like the Harkonnens discovered some kind of hypnotic command word that let them break the conditioning and give him new orders, THAT I could understand, so the Atreides think he can't betray them but then there's some secret they couldn't possibly have known about. But this? A random mugger or a home invader could figure this weakness out.
As someone who loves Frank Herberts writing style and dune saga, I find your review and thoughts very fair. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Funny thing, that you mentioned "The Silmarillion". There is the "The Dune Encyclopedia" (a 1984 collection of essays about the world) which serves a very similar goal. I agree that the books are more about the philosophical discussion than the actual story itself. Although I love the characters (and the ways the story moves in unpredictable ways). I love Frank Herberts writing style but my favourite author is Umberto Eco (Foucault's Pendulum, The Name Of The Rose) , who founded and developed one of the most important approaches in contemporary semiotics, usually referred to as interpretative semiotics, and is also known for his very complicated writing style and philosophical approach to his novels. So Frank Herberts approach to writing might be just my cup of tea. The use of inner monologue is for sure the most controversial decision concerning the writing style in Dune. I like it but also think that it is better utilized in the following books. Many of the concepts, the world and the discussions Herberts wants to have, become more clear in the following books of the saga. To really understand what Frank Herbert tries to accomplish you have to complete at least "Children of Dune" (the 3rd book), which is not as daunting as you might think since Book 2 is fairly short. Book 1 is more an introduction into the world and a foundation for the following saga. It has also the most traditional "adventure" story in the series. For example in "God Emperor of Dune" (the 4th book), Frank Herbert analyzes the cyclical patterns of human society, as well as humanity's evolutionary drives. It has barely any story (or action) in it and consists mostly of philosophical discussions between the characters. So Dune definitly isn't for everyone. I find it highly fascinating. Sadly Frank Herbert died before he could finish the last book in the series. Decades later his sun Brian Herbert tried to finish the saga together with author Kevin J. Anderson partially based of Frank Herberts notes. They also wrote new books (like a prequel trilogy), but all these books are sadly rather shallow and no comparison to the depth in Frank Herberts original series. I can only suggest to ignore these. Dune ended for me with Frank Herberts last book in the saga, "Chapterhouse: Dune". Luckily it serves as good enough of a ending to be at least somewhat satisfying.
@t acitus... You can buy the Dune Encyclopedia second hand on Amazon. But it is expensive. If you don't mind having it on ebook, just follow the link: epdf.pub/the-dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-authorized-guide-and-companion-to.html But be aware the encyclopedia is not canon. It was written when Frank Herbert was alive. He even read it and congratulate the author, but he always made it clear there are stuff in there that take a different path from his vision of the Dune universe.
@@joaolcbarros IIRC Herbert basically said in an introduction or preamble or preceeding comment or something "The book has my blessing. It's canon. Until it's not". Therefore personally I consider it canon above the BH stuff which is a discussion for another day...
@@viciousantelopes22 Yes because anyone male who says anything remotely positive about a woman must be a "simp." What a coherent and healthy worldview /s
The first time I read Dune, I loved it so much, that when I picked up Dune Messiah after finishing it, I only read like 10 pages and I felt that I HAD to re-read Dune because I “hadn’t enjoyed it enough”, and went back immediately, like when you’re listening to a song you love, and you have to repeat it because you weren’t really all into it and now you owe it a second listen... and a third... Dune is really a masterpiece of literature, not just of fantasy and sci fi. But at the same time, I understand completely when someone doesn’t adore it like us Muad’Dib cultists, it’s a really unconventional book, just like Paul is an unconditional antihero. Thanks for your review!
I felt exactly the same way - reading the subsequent Dune novels just made me want to re-read Dune. Except for God-Emperor of Dune. That's the only one I re-read regularly, along with my yearly re-read of Dune itself.
This is quite an interesting take, I personally absolutely adored the writing style and inner monologue. It gave all the social interactions and scheming so much spice.
“Respected it more than I loved it” precisely sums up my feelings while reading DUNE decades ago, after much cajoling on the part of a student teacher at my junior high school. I still feel much the same way to this day. If memory serves, part of my initial reaction was due to thwarted expectations - based on the cover artwork and jacket copy I was expecting a “Swiss Family Robinson”-style tale of survival on a forbidding alien world, rather than the heady blending of retro-future politics, technology and religion that I got. But Herbert’s clunky prose style, particularly with respect to the interior monologues, also didn’t help. (A Harvard Lampoon parody published in the early Seventies had the Duke reflecting “He must indeed be my son, else I would belt him for offmouthing thus.”) In fact, DUNE is a perfect example of what Kurt Vonnegut meant when he talked about science fiction authors who couldn’t write great prose to save their lives, and yet were the only people to take up topics like the impact of technology that were really worth writing about.
The thing about Dune is that it's obsessed with culture and evolution. Whereas Tolkien created a world inspired by languages, Herbert created worlds inspired by the evolution of religions and those who wish to control the course of human evolution. The Dune universe is about control. It's also about the rabid hype that follows influencers and the skeletons in their closets. Long story short, in my opinion, the story itself (ascension to a throne with political intrigue) isn't quite as engrossing without the context.
Just as much as it is about control, it is about how control is ultimately impossible. Every controller is in itself controlled by his sorroundings. The day the flesh shapes, the flesh the day shapes.
@@karandras2854 AH! You are a trilogy fellow. There seem to be generally 4 types of Dunies: 1. 'First book is a great standalone. The rest is out of my headcanon' 2.'First three books are a great trilogy. The rest sucks, better foget it.' 3.'The five Frank books are great, Brian can suck my butthole' 4.'I read all 36 of them, Oh my god. I especially love the Dr. Yueh Holiday special, where he hangs out with Gurney and hooks up with those galacian girls for some pearls. This adds soo much to the story.' I used to be a no.1 after i got bored with Dune Messiah. Now i'm upgrading to a no. 2. I guess, you are just a no. 2. . You are not alone buddy. I think 2s are the biggest group.
@@tgiacin435 That's essentially Herbert's whole point. Spoilers: Paul sees this eventually. He ascends to lead the Fremen, to take back his family's legacy, but even he can see this might not be a good thing. He knows at some level that the Fremen will become fanatics, and that billions will die because of that fanaticism. Considering that his son eventually becomes the worst tyrant that ever existed, he has reason to worry.
I think this is one of the most intelligent, in-depth, and meticulous reviews you've done in awhile. I really hope you end up seeing the 2020 movie adaptation by Denis Villeneuve. Maybe seeing the story adapted for modern audiences will give you another valuable perspective 🎥
Nailed it! I'm 60 pages in and the writing is intense. The word usage, and the plot building... I've never read a book so slowly in my life! Constantly looking up words. I'm annotating this book, and I don't do that with other books. I feel this book should be a must read for highschool, if not for the vocabulary, but the thought provoking content.
I'm so glad you picked up on Paul not being "the chosen one" heck he's not the chosen one three times over (breeding, freeman, and mentat). He fears what he is. He looses so much of his humanity. It is a great deconstruction of the troupe.
i always thought a great part of the narrative was it was the first book to really deal with what a 'chosen one' really means to the world he's supposed to save, and how naive it is to think such a thing would be painless
@@Bellsprouts69 There is also the channel "A Story of Ice and Fire" It started out as a Game of Thrones channel, but it branched out into the Dune and Foundation series. there is a lot of information on that channel.
I’ve read Dune 3 times in my life so far Once in Afghanistan and once in Oman so I absolutely absorbed how it would feel to be isolated on a desert planet Love the book and the series that continued
@@jameswitts3793 I never said you were. I'm just lamenting the fact that such a rich cultural region is only reduced to "ooh it has oil" kind of like everyone's like "ooh it has the spice" without appreciating the rich history and culture there.
We also have to keep in mind Dune was originally published in segments in an auto repair magazine. So that could explain the over explaining of some aspects.
I’m surprisingly early so I’ll use this opportunity. Merphy, your videos are always excellent and I love your in-depth reviews on genres and books, keep doing what you’re doing!
Your videos are escapism 😊 I have to say that just listening to you talk in such detail and with such passion is really calming, and helps calm anxious feelings ☺️ thanks for your work.
8:45 I think sharing "the betrayers" thoughts in that conversation scene was Herbert's way of teaching the reader more about the Bene Gessarit's and their abilities than it was in sharing "the betrayers" thoughts. Rather than Herbert telling us all about the bene gessarit and their abilities, he shows us how on edge a simple conversation with one can make someone who seeks to betray them and their family. It also shows the reader that they aren't infallible. Before that scene, I found myself thinking, "Well, why didn't they know this, or that already if they're a bene gessarit?" But after that scene, and seeing how their abilities can be subverted, I no longer asked myself that question. Idk, that was my interpretation on the "sharing of thoughts" anyway. Cheers!
Great addition. Subconciously I knew throughout the book that Bene Gesserit women weren't just lie detectors that you couldn't get passed, Bene Gesserit could also be tricked or betrayed. Even though I didn't pick up on it until you laid it out here, that chapter probably helped me form that belief about Jessica and other Bene Gesserit. Even later in the book, Reverend Mothers like Mohiam are not infallible.
My daughter and I viewed together. This was our first time watching you. We are choosing a book series for study. Dune ended up on the short list, along with Hyperion and The Hitchiker's five-part trilogy. Thanx for the different kind of review. It was refreshing to hear about the writing and not just content.
I always love to see people read Dune for the first time. Dune is weird, either you get it or you don't. The only way to know if Dune is for you or not is, to read Dune.
So I also just read Dune for the first time, literally finished just yesterday. I was a little wary as so many people seem to say they can't get into it or don't like Herbert's writing style. I respect that opinion, but I also didn't have that experience at all. I loved it! I will say that you said you thought it might be better reading it with a super-fan or a course, Comicbookgirl19 here on TH-cam has done a Dune Club for the first two books and she is one of those people. I watched a few of them and she does a great job breaking down some of what is going on, gives you some background on Frank Herbert, how the book came together, some of the core philosophies Herbert infused into Dune, etc. It helped understand some things that weren't explained that well like Yueh's conditioning and why people refused to believe he would betray anyone. I don't think this is a perfect book because what I had the most trouble on was picturing some of the scenes in the desert and caves in book 2 and 3, but I found myself lost in thought on philosophy, ethics of power, and how easily people can be manipulated. Not for everyone, but worth a try.
Merphy, thank you for reviewing Dune. I'm a Dune nut. I fell in love with the Movie as a kid. Because of horrible dyslexia I have never read a physical book. When I found out about Audiobooks at 18 Dune was the first book I listened to. Since then I've listened to thousands of books. Dune is and will always be my favorite book. I have every book in the series. All six of Frank Herbert's and all 14 of Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's contributions to the universe. I always wanted more at the beginning of Dune. You jump straight into that story with so much untold. Brian and Kevin have written 3 book prequel books that lead up to Paul's birth. Then they also jumped back 10000 years to tell the vary beginnings of the story. Like I said I'm a nut. I'm glad you liked Dune I hope you give the rest of the series a go.
That's only half true, the time line is simply longer I think. The details of stuff like the Butlarian jihad are unimportant, as the effects are really the important take away from historical events like that.
@@Shinigami13133 @jarrod nash Butlerian Jihad is important in explaining why computers are not allowed so much so on a religious level. It's considered sin & heresy to create computers. Therefore we have Mentats("super" human calculators memory & knowledge holders)in the Universe. It shows the amount of world building behind the ideas FH was trying to get across. AI technology is evil and will inhibit natural human evolution.
Dune is a book about ecology, metaphysics, political systems, economics, and messianic religion, all dressed-up as a science fictional entertainment. It was written as a sort-of Aesop's fable for the Sixties audience, as all of those things were what was uppermost in almost everyone's minds. So you are spot-on, Merph, that Frank Herbert's agenda in writing this novel extends beyond telling a straightforward story, and is more about educating people on the world around them, at the time. And in all of his succeding Dune novels, he developes these ideas further, the difference being that these millenia-spanning novels become more intricate and involving, story-wise, and he puts most of the weight for examining the issues raised into the capable hands of Princess Irulan, among others, and the blurbs they offer before each chapter. Blah, blah, blah -- I didn't mean to get so overly verbose in telling you that as a diehard fan of the Duniverse, I really, really appreciated your honest, well-though-out review. Dune isn't everyones cup of sappho juice, nor does it have to be. But I am glad that you recognise the importance of this book. Thanks for that.
I'm reading Dune for the first time right now, and my feelings on the book are really similar to yours. There's so much thought-provoking, well-written, well-thought-out ideas and concepts, and then there's all the internal monologues that just don't sit right with me. But even though they sometimes really annoy me, I'm really enjoying the book as a whole.
Dune is one of my favourite Si-Fi series but I find that the first book is just an introduction (despite being very long) nd the depth of what Franck Herbert was trying to do shines in the 4th book (God Emperor of Dune). Another Si-Fi series that I really love is Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, mostly the first 2 books Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion, really fascinating stories and concepts.
I mean to be honest you really have to read the entire series to fully understand what he was trying to do say but I do understand why a lot of people stop at God emperor it goes from deep and nuanced to extremely deep and extremely nuanced in chapter House and heretics (I had to read the last two books a few times before I fully understood them) it's also important to note that Frank Herbert died before finishing the series so I'm guessing we don't fully know what he was trying to say with his masterpiece
finally my people who recognize god emperor of dune 's greatness. in my opinion its his most profound work . Leto as a character is so complex and his emotions so tragic . the idea of leto being both the most human person to exist while also being the most inhuman.
@@mmilo131 Leto is the most incredible character ever written in fiction. He is absolutely the most tragic, heroic, horrible, saintly, demonic, and yes human character I have ever read. The prescience trap is truly horrifying.
I believe that Dune makes a lot more sense after you've read Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. Some of the characters and developments in those books really provide that additional world building. Then when you go back, things like Yueh's betrayal being seen as truly impossible make more sense.
Ive been watching the Reading Dune podcast on youtube as a companion guide to the book after i read a chapter. Helps me catch things I miss in the story and provides a discussion on the reading.
This book being one of my favorites, the first time I read this, I quit reading it even before finishing the first chapter. The new and strange concepts, strange words, were all kind of overwhelming. But I decided to sit down and read no matter what and my god. Lets just say that I really am glad that I did.
I'm reading the books now, on book 2. I'm more fascinated with the ideas of how people have cognitively evolved in the next several thousand years than the plot. And I do truly enjoy that aspect. But at best the narrative is a thought study on how peoples make and destroy their own heroes and prophets; the plot itself is merely serviceable.
The plot being merely serviceable is a product of modern storytelling. The book is old. At the time it was written, the story was groundbreaking in a lot of ways, and alongside other writers like Asimov, Clarke, Banks, Moor, Gunn, Pohl, Chandler, Brown (and a few more), it set up the very foundations of modern science fiction and storytelling. The genre has evolved and the mantle since passed on to a newer and modern generation of storytellers that have the breadth and wealth of past works to draw upon. I would argue that in it's own context, the plot transcends servicability and becomes the proper conduit for which the ideas have been presented without the need or pretence to be bigger or greater than how people would act/react/take action on behalf of the knowledge and culture presented there. Reading fresh from today, it falls short of how we want or expect our material to be presented to us.
i personally found the narration/ inner monologue (what you took issue with) to be one of the more riveting aspects of the book! It shows that these humans have become so aware and conscious of behavior that every single conversation has become a chess game to them. That chapter in the arakeen dining room was more exciting than any fight scene in the book imo haha.
Merphy, the main reason I enjoy you and your channel is that I relate with a lot of your feelings regarding many genres I like, and with Dune was no different. What I appreciated the most about this novel are the concepts, the philosophy, and the environment; way more than the plot itself, and I have a huge respect for Herbert, how he inserted these discussion themes into the story. Honestly, I did not enjoy a bunch of characters, and I felt their lore was quite shallow, with the plot being the factor for the themes I previously mentioned. You did an amazing review, and I expect to read this book in the future, with a new perspective.
I am glad you picked up on how the book is not a savior trope. And yes, you will get more every time. The book is a anti-trope story and a cautionary tale. The rest of the series lays this out. Hope you see the movie! (edit format issue)
I watched this review a couple of years ago, and just watched it for the second time and this is a wonderfully worded review, that is as interesting to listen to as reading a good story. What an intelligent person you seem, with great observation skills and the focus to pull insight from a book that obliterates my general engagement levels with a story. Being easy on the ears and eyes does not hurt the review either. Superb.
I discovered the joy of re-reading Dune way back when I realized the last three books had never been translated, so I re-read the first three to read the last three. And I've since re-read the saga every 5-7 years. Every time I discover new aspects of the story; get lost in side-stories I glossed over last time. It's the mark of an amazing story, that it grows with you. :)
I appreciate your take on Dune as the first time reader that you are. You mentioned that you felt there were a lot of concepts you probably didn’t catch. Don’t feel bad about that; that is one the amazing things about this book. You can go back and re-read it time and again, and catch nuances and themes you had previously overlooked. I hope you re-re-re-read it and get the full enjoyment out of it. Then you can do a update vlog on it. Cheers.
The problem is the guy who betrayed him basically had a certificate saying that was impossible. The reason this keeps getting reiterated is to show how much they blindly trusted the certification. I think this is a critique that even a person in a benevolent authority position could be turned for personal reason. It will be interesting to see how the new movie handles all this internal dialogue. I doubt they will do voice overs like David Lynch again.
That's an interesting thing to read into it. Makes me think of Bryan Caplan's The Case Against Education. Still, I don't think it's fair to dismiss the Atreides trust in Wellington Yueh as a garden-variety case of credentialism. Over thousands of years, no one had ever managed to subvert a Suk doctor's conditioning. It really was an extraordinary feat, marking Baron Vladimir as possibly the greatest purveyor of perversion and corruption who ever lived. Perhaps the lesson is that, on rare occasions, even things which have always been true may no longer be true?
He who controls the spice controls the universe Kudos to Merphy for refraining from saying spice melange. I still don't know how she did it but it is quite the fun word to say.
"This is a story that I feel like I could read a thousand times, and each time come out with new interpertations and discussion pieces, and pieces of the world, even though I'm reading the same text over and over again." That's what I like to call, "old-fashion sci-fi". It's not about great impressions and "look how this character is cool" or "check my not-magic system!" (though you had some of those as well, especially Heinlein) but rather about "still waters run deep". This is from the psychedelic-experimental writing, where a story was more about exploring ideas, and less about plot and payoffs, etc. Others for example: Kurt Vonnegut, Phillip K. Dick, Ray Bradbury. You could also find some that later became movies: The Thing, Silent Running, Logan's Run, Annhilation, Solaris (1976 - also a great book), Moon, Naked Launch, etc.
Dune has a special place for me, I read it when I was still rather young (it was at that time the largest book I had read), during a hot summer and I made my first attempts at cooking on my own (and of course I put cinnamon in everything because of this book). Still, I am not angry at this review, I actually like people discovering this book, and I really hope Villeneuve will do it justice and that his film version will draw also more people in.
Great review!! Just some thoughts, surrounding the internal dialogue. As someone fascinated by psychology and criminal psychology, I found these fascinating. For example the betrayal and how much yuhe thinks about it. It's all consuming to him, versus how clueless everyone else seems to be. I feel like in real life people who say they never saw things coming are much like Jessica and Paul and criminals are a lot like yueh. I took that as a glimpse into their thought process and how these things can happen when we all think they're unthinkable.
I think the "Betrayal scenes" were trying to show how reluctant and well trusted the Betrayer was. It may have been over the top, but I always saw it as a way to convey how guilty they felt about it, like really bad, really really bad, bad bad, really bad bad lol, and that they were so trusted someone could tell the victim that this person would decapitate them and the response would be, "Oh, dear. I must will have contracted gangrene and they had to amputate to save me." It was a way to build tension, but more importantly is was a crisis of identity for the person involved and was the only thing they could ever think of, it consumed them.
Your frustration with the characters not suspecting the betrayer (around 9:45) completely misses the point - no one suspected him because of their absolute belief in Suk conditioning - they thought it was a literal impossibility that he would betray them. This may seem like a plot cop-out, but I think it's quite a poignant commentary about human blind-spots with faith in processes, especially in this world Herbert created to say "here's the danger with charismatic leaders and super-humans". You filed this under not liking his writing style, but in this instance it seems more like you misunderstood the reason the characters never suspected him. Also, The Dune Encyclopedia is a thing that exists, and is basically the Silmarillion you desire. Also, you couldn't know this from your first time reading it (unless you did research first) but the 1st book isn't the full story. And I don't mean that in the sense that Dune spans 8 books, but rather that Dune wasn't actually a book. It was serially published in a magazine. So was Dune Messiah, which became the second book. They were made into books later. Dune Messiah is truly the completion of the first part of the story - it completes the arc of Muad'dib. Messiah is necessary reading in order to understand the story Herbert wanted to tell. But you're right that these books are a medium for his philosophy: "charismatic leaders should come with warning labels: may be dangerous to your health." Lastly this is just a difference of opinion, I think the world-building in Dune is first class. It's just of a different type than other media. Herbert rarely spends time describing how people or locations look, for instance. So so much of the look of things is left to your imagination. Also, it's probably the least sci-fi sci-fi story ever, despite being one of the most popular sci-fi stories. There isn't much focus on future tech. On the other hand, the ecology of Dune is incredible. The deep understanding and respect Herbert had for ecology is clearly evident. And yeah, he wanted to tell a more political and philosophical story, so the worldbuilding is much more focused on the politics of the world, and the "worlds" of the characters minds, which are interesting since their minds have evolved so much further than current-day human minds. It's still world building, just not the world building most people expect in a sci-fi story.
I do believe that Dune Messiah should complete a trilogy of Denis Villeneuve adaptations of Frank Herbert's works. Two films to comprise the first book and DM to finish the trilogy. Children of Dune can continue as a standalone film along with God-Emperor, fingers crossed. Heretics, Chapterhouse, Sandworms, and Hunters should be televised, methinks...
@@FVD That would be awesome. I already expect I'll see Dune 2020 in theaters multiple times, and I hope it gets tremendous public support so he can keep making these films.
Probably my favorite book of all time, even after sixteen read throughs I still get so much out of it more than any other novel. The next five are just as poigniant, particularly God Emperor of Dune. It's the only series where I whipped out a notebook to write down quotes as I was reading and still go back to them over 20 years after the first read. Phenomenal stuff
IMO, one of the coolest things Herbert did in Dune was almost entirely negate guns, bombs, etc. by the introduction of shield technology. At the time, I was just discovering European fencing and Japanese kendo, so it was so awesome to discover a sci-fi universe in which sword fighting was relevant once again, and not just in personal duels and such.
I've debated reading Dune for a couple of years now, and I think I'd have to be in the mood for it, but your review has finally convinced me I need to pick it up at some point!
There is an encyclopedia for dune that dose detail the history of Dune. For anyone just getting into the Dune series just a couple of things to be aware of. Books 1,2, and 3 are one arch and the books after that the 3rd book assume that you read them. Also the books written by Brain Herbert the son of Frank Herbert are divisive in the Dune community as to whether they should be canon or not.
They should not, they are incompatible, brian and kevin visibly misunderstood the Buttlerian Jihad. Frank Jihad was because men where using machine too much they where becoming compleasant and they believed it stopped human evolution because we did not struggle anymore, Brian they where literally fighting Skynet
I definitely feel you with this review, I had the same issues with the book as you did. His writing style is so unique but does sometimes feel repetitive with how he covers the same ground over and over with internal thoughts but damn if I don't love the book. Its just such a fascinating world that Frank has created you can't help but be pulled into it and want to go deeper into its his message and the themes throughout.
I often wonder if the way it was written is indicative of when it was written: the way that Herbert portrays the story reminds me of The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula LeGuin which, I think, was written within a few years of Dune. They both focus more on the philosophical nature of their universes rather than the action.
Yes... Yes... YES! As someone how loves "Dune" and "The Left Hand of Darkness" never crossed my mind that this two books have some similarities. Thanks for bringing this to the light!
Hi Merphy! Your comment about the heavy internal thoughts is so true and a definite trait of Dune. So much so that when Lynch made the movie adaptation (which I love as much as the book), he did tons of voice-overs to replicate that same vibe in the book. Great review, your perspective is always refreshing!
Agree - when Paul and Jessica went into the desert that’s when I really started to enjoy it. It really irritated me that on the back of the book it tells you that Duke Leto dies which I felt like I was constantly waiting for.
The Sci-Fi mini-series got me hooked on sci-fi as a kid (10years old) as a teen an adult became my all-time favorite book series hope you stick with it at least a god emperor (I can kind of see why people lose interest after that I didn't but it's definitely understandable) as the emperor so wisely proclaimed the spice must flow lol
@@theinevitablegodemperordea4278 yeah I got to god emperor already kinda tired of the series and the fact that they kept reviving that one guy sorry it’s been a few years over and over and he wasn’t even an interesting character or important to the original plot really bothered me but I did like that Leto was a big worm
Late to the party but I felt I should point out that the betrayor is an early introduction to a common theme in Herbert's Dune: Humanity's frequent overtrust in institutional promises.
I read whole series few times, and i love it. How to read Dune series: Pay attention to keywords related to RELIGION and POLITICS. When such a key word is encountered, go back half page or sometimes whole page and reread it slowly, lots of things is just implied, so pay attention to deeper implications. This book series is about mechanics of politics, mechanics of religion and mechanics of military power, how those 3 mechanics interplay and also devastating effects of politics on human lives. In other words it is a political science or a political philosophy textbook in a form on novel series. (From Your review i see that You get it, but You are struggling with finding words to express it). Fremen are not snowflakes :-)
Just watched the 2021 movie of Dune. I immediately told my friends, "there's no way Hollywood made a universe THIS elaborate. It's gotta be a book." Didn't expect it to be a LOOOOOONGGG A$$ series lol. I've been reading reviews that the first book can be treated as a standalone novel. With all that being said, as a newbie to the Duniverse, should I get the Movie-cover title or the Hardback Deluxe Edition with the nice artwork on the cover? Would appreciate any suggestions! 😂😂
This has never been "on my radar" but with the new film coming out, I might give it a try. Maybe. My main concern is the omnipresent narrative, I get confused easily and I feel like it could potentially confuse me.
Dune is not confusing in you can not tell who is talking and it thinking all the characters have a distinct voice. That can it can be confusing in some off the metaphysics and ecology If you are not familiar with those topics.
I don’t think it’ll be a problem. Dune explains every characters motivation, it explains every plan. Usually you know chapters ahead of time when someone is going to die or get betrayed, and the interesting part is HOW that will happen.
While I agree with the other replies, if you have a history of being confused in this way with reading books like this, my suggestion would actually be to wait for the new movie. Watch Dune Part One, then read the first half of the book (you can finish it if you prefer though), then after Dune Part Two you can read the rest. That might help you understand the flow a bit better, if you are concerned about being confused.
I'm late to this comment party as I've just finished reading the six main Dune books for the first time and am currently reading The Road to Dune which seems to me, so far, to be the closest thing to a "Silmarillion for Dune" as you put it. Just wanted to say great video! You've got a new subscriber in me!
Dune, a great book. Read it back in 1989....due a re-read I think as well as me going on to some of the others in the series. Keep up the good work, your vids are great.
Thank you for such a complex spoiler free review, I was really trying to decide whether I wanted to partake in this book before lost worlds but since it seems so intricate and immersive, I’ll wait till after so I can really deep dive into the world, thanks for such a detailed review! As always you nailed it 👌🏼
Also, someone's already mentioned it in the comments, but check out Quinn's Ideas here on youtube. He's made a whole series on the Dune saga that are really helpful in making sense of its contents. He's one of my favourite youtubers, too.
I really love Herbert's writing style. It does have that sense of "myth" or prophecy to it. For example, when Yueh is introduced, some of his first thoughts are "man its going to suck when I betray these guys". Then we see him betray them. Then later on everyone is like "man didn't it suck when Yueh betrayed us?" we get to be not a fly on the wall, but a kind of passive god in the Dune universe, watching things play out even as we pretty much know what the end result is going to be. It's like reading the Bible. We know Judas will betray Jesus, we sit with Judas while he thinks about and laments betraying Jesus, then we see him betray Jesus and the moment still has gravity and weight even though we knew it was coming. The betrayal was also a way to comment on slavishly adhering to "known" or widely accepted information. It's "known" that the Suk conditioning "cannot be broken", so even though it's painfully obvious that Yueh is likely the traitor, to the characters, it's literally impossible to concieve of because they've bought into the popular dogma of the day. A bit of a meta-anlysis, but Yueh's betrayal is actually the only recorded case of Suk conditioning being "broken" (it was actually bent, more than broken) and even that was only due to a set of infinitely unique circumstances. In regards to the prophetic quality of the book, for example, Paul talks about his "terrible purpose", then we just watch as that terrible purpose comes to fruition. If, at the end of the book, someone were to say "holy shit I didn't see that coming", I'd wonder if we read the same book. The end is practically laid out from the beginning and the inevitability is ultimately what makes it compelling.
I enjoyed hearing what you thought about the book however in regards to Yueh there are several mentions of why they don't suspect him. The main thing being that he is conditioned in a way that makes him loyal and as far they know this conditioning is impossible to break.
It would be awesome to see you do either a spoiler review where you can go into more detail or a discussion video/podcast where you just talk about the book with someone else or others who have read it.
Great review. One point I disagree with is the book not being for casual reading or escapism. I read this each night after a long day to 1000% escape to a planet and a cool story. The little details he throws at you, the cool thing is, you don't have to catch every single one to still have the story come together and for you to eventually pick up on what is going on. Love the review and the thought/perspective you have offered here.
Frank Herbert's prose is incredible. I mean, have a you ever seen a more beautiful description of the night sky than this, ""A predawn hush had come over the desert basin. He looked up. Straight overhead, the stars were a sequin shawl flung over blue-black. Low on the southern horizon, the night's second moon peered through a thin dust haze - an unbelieving moon that looked at him with a cynical light."
Well, the betrayal is what's on his mind all the time and keeping it from her is a constant walk on a razor's edge. I guess him not appearing at all would be the only way to stop repeating his thoughts ^^ And nobody is suspicious of him because he literally can't hurt anyone.
Merphy trying hard not to say "I didn't really like reading this book, but I don't want to alienate my audience". Dune is like a book with recipes - I respect the content, even though I would never read it for fun.
I get how it could have come off that way, but that's not really what I was trying to get across. It's more like, I loved the concept and discussion of this book and I'm really glad I read it, but because of certain writing choices, I didn't enjoy the process of reading it. So I'm just really mixed on how I felt about it and that's been hard for me to articulate
@@merphynapier42 With Dune I would say, It's one of those stories where once you are on the third(Children Of Dune) it just all becomes clear. One cannot judge the series without the 3rd. At least in my opinion.
ishan bajpai ugh, I hated that book. I couldn’t even finish it. I felt like Dune was Herbert’s life’s work, and every book after it was a sad a attempt at satisfying his publisher.
@@ishanbajpai6940I am SO a complete head-over-heels fan, but the 3rd book was the one I liked the least. I get what you're saying though. And I'll add that if as you say you need the 3rd book to understand the story, you need the 4th book to understand the WORLD.
A really fair and balanced review. Others have commented on the betrayer and why no one suspects him. One theme I see in the book is the fallibility / arrogance of man. Almost all characters undoing is caused by the thing they are supposedly best at. The person who cannot harm a fly betrays the people he cares about and the person who is an expert in reading human emotion doesn’t pick up on the betrayal because she is too empathetic. After the dialogue you discussed it clearly states that she knew the betrayer was holding something back, but she didn’t want to embarrass him by forcing it out of him. Other examples: - the inspirational leader is betrayed and killed - the perfect logician joins his enemy because he uses false information as the basis for his logic - the scientist is killed by the thing he studies - a political order loses everything they have tried to build because they fail to anticipate that it can arise, in a different way than the one they have precisely plotted out Etc.
You summed up my thoughts precisely. Due to the bad writing (or writing that irritated me more than I would like) I believe I lost a lot of what the book was trying to convey :( I am considering reading it in a translation, maybe it will read better.
Considering the density of the start of this novel. One of the (many) concepts that herbert plays with like silly putty is how context affects perspective. Consider how the fremen treat paul as a deity but we know that their entire saviour myth has been planted by the space witches. The first 50 or so pages of Dune is frank herbert telling you EXACTLY what is going to happen to the Atreides, down to the name of the traitor, but not telling you WHY it's going to happen. He does this throughout the book; action followed by set up. Man I love this book
I had a similar experience with Dune. I also read the second book which is quite short so I found it strange that there's a large time jump from the end of book 1 to the end of book 2. I get the feeling Herbert wanted to tell a great story but really didn't like writing. It's a cultural phenomenon that I guess you kinda had to be there at the time to fully appreciate. After book 2 I'm indifferent about finishing the trilogy and unlikely to begin the 2nd trilogy. But i did just start WOT and it doesn't seem like the author had a problem writing at all. 😂
I'm late to this discussion, but this is the best description and review of Dune that I've seen or read. So many "Dune Geeks" like me get so excited describing Dune and we get over analytical. "...the point of Dune was to discuss a lot of deeper topics, and the story was a medium to discuss, but the story itself isn't nearly as important as the discussions." Perfect description of what Frank Herbert was wanting to achieve in my opinion...I'm using that whenever I'm asked again what Dune is about!
If you think DUNE is one of the most fascinating books you've ever read, God Emperor of DUNE is like "hold my spice beer". It's one of the most intriguing philosophical books ever written but suffers from lack of notoriety because you need to read the books before it to really have your mind blown. It's nearly complete poetry.
While trying to read this book, i was also lost with the world that was written as the new vocabulary created just for this world. But I was determined to finish this book and mid way through my reading i found the "Reading Dune" podcast. Thanks to them i was able to understand the universe of Dune and made it possible after every chapter to be more about dissecting the chapter as opposed to questioning what was going on.
Read the sequels if you want more exploration and answers. I strongly encouarge you to read up until Children of Dune. At least give Dune Messiah a shot. Because Messiah is not really a new installment but rather a epilogue to the book 1. I like the sequels even more than the first one because Herbert twists the tropes that he built in the first book and gives the reader a clear understanding what was really going on. He really tried warn us about messianic figures and charismatic leaders might have done to world around us If they were given that kind of corruptable power.
I quite liked Dune and have also read Dune Messiah, but I'm not a super fan or anything like that. That said, I do have a tattoo on my arm saying "fear is the mind-killer" and I know the whole litany off by heart. I use it to cope with anxiety and stuff sometimes. "I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me."
The Wheel of Time influenced by Dune? I read Eye of the World before Dune and I noticed how much the premice is inspired by Dune and Lord of the Rings.
In book 4 it is even more clear. The ending even takes elements of the ending of the 1984 movie, that was not in the Dune book (and is even a little antithetical to the book).
I watched the 80s movie 3 or 4 times as a child. Then read the book at 16. Then again at 21, 32, & 36. The original impression I had of it as a 7 year old boy just got deeper and deeper and deeper. The audio version with a full voice cast is excellent; put it in your car. You’ll catch a lot on the 2nd go through. Then watch the movies (3rd version coming out soon) and reread. Then move on to book 2 and so forth. Once you’re comfortable with the universe it all makes sense. Though often in hind-sight. It’s a lot to take in. Science, history, politics, futurism. Just take your time with it and revisit when you’re ready. : )
To your point that there was little action: yeah, there’s not a lot of physical action. The action is more in the political gears turning. Leto, Paul, Jessica, Yueh, Hawat, Baron Harkonnen, Feyd Rautha, the Emperor, Liet-Keynes, and the Guild, all angling and plotting and trapping and using each other. How all of those things went according to plan or had unintended consequences. So yeah, there not a lot of action. Dune is like an intricate game of chess with 20 players set in an absolutely gorgeous world. About Yueh: I think I agree with you here. I wish there had been less heavy handed foreshadowing and more explanation as to what exactly the conditioning is that Suk Doctors go through making them unable to betray. I read some other comments and saw someone say Suk Doctors are conditioned to do not harm. That makes sense, Yueh would have been doing harm to his wife by not doing what he was asked to save her life. He did the least harm possible given his information. But none of that was explained. I think if it had been it would have helped a lot. Something I would have liked in the book is if we got more information about The Old Duke, Leto’s father. All we really know is that Leto was the Emperor’s cousin and that the Old Duke (Leto’s father) was gored to death by a boar and was a savage man. We see Paul compared to the Old Duke in the end, turning savage and not caring for humans the way Leto did. The parallel between Paul and the Old Duke was mentioned, but I didn’t have enough information to feel satisfied. And I’ll say one more thing: I only got to book 3 in the series and I don’t recommend you go down that rabbit hole. The series is weak. There are interesting concepts explored, but the characters aren’t as strong and the plot feels contrived and forced.
You're so right. For every physical knife fight in the book, there are a dozen verbal 'knife fights' that are equally tense and satisfying! I think that is where the omniscient third person really shines because it reveals the balance of power and how it shifts with each comment and rebuttal. I read Dune thinking it was a stand-alone novel and I never felt it needed any sequels. From what I've read online, the rest of the series is (even) less character- and action-driven, to the point of abandoning the original characters altogether. No, I love Dune just the way it is.
@@Geert2682 no the later books are very character driven to the point of there barely being a plot, but the new characters aren't interesting enough to make it work.
Dune is a stupendous act of imagination. It has so many deeper levels: ecology, leadership, and what is it is to be human and inhuman. The incredible thing is that while it deals with vast concepts it is seen through the prism of personalities. This novel has real personalities as much as ideas. It is necessary to read the dictionary in the back to understand. Given what is happening in the world this book will get bigger.
I had the experience you say you wish you had: I first read Dune as a part of a book club with a superfan (Comicbookgirl 19 aka Danika XIX). I hope you keep reading the series since you loved the world so much!
Great video! I agree on all your points and I would like to provide my interpretation of why there’s so much inner monologue. Partly style of course, partly because it’s the 60s and authors had a much different style before the 70s and 80s Id say. But I think specifically in the last decade or two decades, a lot of the mainstream novels and movies were noir so he was surrounded with that high amount of inner monologue. I believe it came naturally to him given the state of media leading up to and when he was writing the book.
Yes, Dune is Frank Herbert's Thesis on Political Science, Ecology, Court Intrigue, Messianic Figures, and Technology. It is frustrating on the first read, and then it becomes more fascinating and deep with repeat readings. When I read it the first time at 11, way back in the 80's, there were many things that I did not grok at that time. It has been a learning curve, Dune. It's a book I love to return to every 2 years or so. You will always find something new in it's cavernous 800+ pages.
Wow, I LOVED this video! This is a great review, very balanced and honest. Thanks for making this.
Cheers, Quinn - I love your channel man and I also love Merphy's. I'm kind of in her boat at the moment having read Dune only one time but definitely feel that I will read it at least a few more times. Not to mention that I've only read the first book.
I love your channel dude and love dune
Love your channel!
I totally agree. Her review was very fresh and honest. She’s way prettier than you too. lol
Seriously Quinn, I LOVE your channel!
Love your chanel man
The best line from Herbert was at a college talk. "I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: May be dangerous to your health." It beautifully sums up what its about. Paul, with all his foresight still makes decisions that put billions in jeopardy. The horrors of purposefully placed prophecy that can and will be exploited and what its followers might do despite the wishes of those they follow.
"What do you think the hero of your favourite sci-fi/fantasy series gets up to between books 1 and 2?"
"Kills every living thing on 90 planets, enacts brutal terror campaigns against another 500 planets, and exterminates 40 different religions down to the last man, woman and child. Total deaths: 61 billion."
"Err. What about between books 2 and 3?"
"Wanders the desert as a blind exile."
"Oh, the people depose him and punish him for his crimes?"
"Haha, no, they love him and worship him as the greatest man who ever lived."
"... Do I even want to ask about books 3 and 4?"
"He's dead by then, but his bastard son rules the universe with an iron fist for 3'500 years as an immortal god-tyrant, stifling trade and creative expression, and enacting elaborate breeding programs."
"Wow."
"It's okay though, it was all for the greater good."
Dude come on SPOILER
Yes, he hated populists. And he is right. People tend to trust those who seem more like us. Politicians are aware of this and some of them - the craftiest and most cunning - are able to emulate that, but keep to their essence.
I read this series out of order. Read the last book first, but could still understand alot since it felt more like reading events of a real place not a story. Then found books 3 then 2, then finally read book 1. But because I didn't read it in order, I never saw Paul as a hero.
It was kind of ironically interesting reading Dr. Yueh’s agonised internal
monologue, knowing that history would remember him as a treacherous monster to the point that there would be children’s songs about how villainous he was.
The betrayal you mention in the book was considered impossible due to mental conditioning the character had that was supposed to prevent him from ever doing any harm under any circumstances. Even the people who managed to override his programming weren't sure how they did it.
Spoiler:
The *Power of Love*
Wretching noises follow. Honestly that may be the weakest part of the whole book.
I take it that the Dr. was able to tell himself that the Atridies coulnd't beat the Harkonnens, so the best he could do was help the duke get revenge with his last breath.
SPOILER:
That actually kind of bugged me on my reading, because "people with this conditioning are incapable of betrayal or harm UNLESS YOU KIDNAP AND THREATEN THEIR LOVED ONES" doesn't seem like deep or powerful anti-betrayal conditioning to me. Holding someone's spouse hostage is a pretty classic way of forcing them to do horrible things. It's like having a superhero whose weakness is "weapons".
Like, I have to wonder -- has anybody else figured out that Suk conditioning has this incredibly ordinary weakness? Are the Harkonnens REALLY the first people to realize this worked? If his weakness was something really obscure like the Harkonnens discovered some kind of hypnotic command word that let them break the conditioning and give him new orders, THAT I could understand, so the Atreides think he can't betray them but then there's some secret they couldn't possibly have known about. But this? A random mugger or a home invader could figure this weakness out.
@@GodotIsWaiting4U I suspect in all other cases that failed, but for some reason it didnt in the case of dr yueh
As someone who loves Frank Herberts writing style and dune saga, I find your review and thoughts very fair. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Funny thing, that you mentioned "The Silmarillion". There is the "The Dune Encyclopedia" (a 1984 collection of essays about the world) which serves a very similar goal. I agree that the books are more about the philosophical discussion than the actual story itself. Although I love the characters (and the ways the story moves in unpredictable ways). I love Frank Herberts writing style but my favourite author is Umberto Eco (Foucault's Pendulum, The Name Of The Rose) , who founded and developed one of the most important approaches in contemporary semiotics, usually referred to as interpretative semiotics, and is also known for his very complicated writing style and philosophical approach to his novels. So Frank Herberts approach to writing might be just my cup of tea. The use of inner monologue is for sure the most controversial decision concerning the writing style in Dune. I like it but also think that it is better utilized in the following books.
Many of the concepts, the world and the discussions Herberts wants to have, become more clear in the following books of the saga. To really understand what Frank Herbert tries to accomplish you have to complete at least "Children of Dune" (the 3rd book), which is not as daunting as you might think since Book 2 is fairly short. Book 1 is more an introduction into the world and a foundation for the following saga. It has also the most traditional "adventure" story in the series. For example in "God Emperor of Dune" (the 4th book), Frank Herbert analyzes the cyclical patterns of human society, as well as humanity's evolutionary drives. It has barely any story (or action) in it and consists mostly of philosophical discussions between the characters. So Dune definitly isn't for everyone. I find it highly fascinating. Sadly Frank Herbert died before he could finish the last book in the series. Decades later his sun Brian Herbert tried to finish the saga together with author Kevin J. Anderson partially based of Frank Herberts notes. They also wrote new books (like a prequel trilogy), but all these books are sadly rather shallow and no comparison to the depth in Frank Herberts original series. I can only suggest to ignore these. Dune ended for me with Frank Herberts last book in the saga, "Chapterhouse: Dune". Luckily it serves as good enough of a ending to be at least somewhat satisfying.
Lots of luck finding "The Dune Encyclopedia;" its OOP and Brian Herbert wants to do his own thing so it remains out of print (alledgedly).
Very interesting! Knowing that there is going to be a movie I ordered the book, I hope I’ll like it!
The Dune Encyclopedia is not canon and Frank Herbert did not write it. He did endorse it, while reserving the right to contradict it in future books.
@t acitus... You can buy the Dune Encyclopedia second hand on Amazon. But it is expensive. If you don't mind having it on ebook, just follow the link:
epdf.pub/the-dune-encyclopedia-the-complete-authorized-guide-and-companion-to.html
But be aware the encyclopedia is not canon. It was written when Frank Herbert was alive. He even read it and congratulate the author, but he always made it clear there are stuff in there that take a different path from his vision of the Dune universe.
@@joaolcbarros IIRC Herbert basically said in an introduction or preamble or preceeding comment or something "The book has my blessing. It's canon. Until it's not". Therefore personally I consider it canon above the BH stuff which is a discussion for another day...
Can we just take a moment to appreciate Merphy uploading as often as she does? Love the vids 💖💖💖
Simp
@@viciousantelopes22 Yes because anyone male who says anything remotely positive about a woman must be a "simp." What a coherent and healthy worldview /s
and she is so pretty
Those internal thoughts were one of the hurdles in translating this to a screenplay
The first time I read Dune, I loved it so much, that when I picked up Dune Messiah after finishing it, I only read like 10 pages and I felt that I HAD to re-read Dune because I “hadn’t enjoyed it enough”, and went back immediately, like when you’re listening to a song you love, and you have to repeat it because you weren’t really all into it and now you owe it a second listen... and a third...
Dune is really a masterpiece of literature, not just of fantasy and sci fi. But at the same time, I understand completely when someone doesn’t adore it like us Muad’Dib cultists, it’s a really unconventional book, just like Paul is an unconditional antihero.
Thanks for your review!
I felt exactly the same way - reading the subsequent Dune novels just made me want to re-read Dune. Except for God-Emperor of Dune. That's the only one I re-read regularly, along with my yearly re-read of Dune itself.
This is quite an interesting take, I personally absolutely adored the writing style and inner monologue. It gave all the social interactions and scheming so much spice.
> so much spice
Hahaha. I don't need blue eyes to see what you did there.
Same, it’s part of why I love this book
You might say the inner monlogue and the dialogue make an interesting....melange.
@@PeckiePeck Yes, you've done it!
“Respected it more than I loved it” precisely sums up my feelings while reading DUNE decades ago, after much cajoling on the part of a student teacher at my junior high school. I still feel much the same way to this day. If memory serves, part of my initial reaction was due to thwarted expectations - based on the cover artwork and jacket copy I was expecting a “Swiss Family Robinson”-style tale of survival on a forbidding alien world, rather than the heady blending of retro-future politics, technology and religion that I got. But Herbert’s clunky prose style, particularly with respect to the interior monologues, also didn’t help. (A Harvard Lampoon parody published in the early Seventies had the Duke reflecting “He must indeed be my son, else I would belt him for offmouthing thus.”) In fact, DUNE is a perfect example of what Kurt Vonnegut meant when he talked about science fiction authors who couldn’t write great prose to save their lives, and yet were the only people to take up topics like the impact of technology that were really worth writing about.
The thing about Dune is that it's obsessed with culture and evolution. Whereas Tolkien created a world inspired by languages, Herbert created worlds inspired by the evolution of religions and those who wish to control the course of human evolution. The Dune universe is about control. It's also about the rabid hype that follows influencers and the skeletons in their closets. Long story short, in my opinion, the story itself (ascension to a throne with political intrigue) isn't quite as engrossing without the context.
Leaders should come with a warning: may be dangerous to your health.
Just as much as it is about control, it is about how control is ultimately impossible. Every controller is in itself controlled by his sorroundings.
The day the flesh shapes, the flesh the day shapes.
It's me or the last two books sucks?
@@karandras2854 AH! You are a trilogy fellow.
There seem to be generally 4 types of Dunies:
1. 'First book is a great standalone. The rest is out of my headcanon'
2.'First three books are a great trilogy. The rest sucks, better foget it.'
3.'The five Frank books are great, Brian can suck my butthole'
4.'I read all 36 of them, Oh my god. I especially love the Dr. Yueh Holiday special, where he hangs out with Gurney and hooks up with those galacian girls for some pearls. This adds soo much to the story.'
I used to be a no.1 after i got bored with Dune Messiah. Now i'm upgrading to a no. 2.
I guess, you are just a no. 2. . You are not alone buddy. I think 2s are the biggest group.
@@tgiacin435 That's essentially Herbert's whole point.
Spoilers:
Paul sees this eventually. He ascends to lead the Fremen, to take back his family's legacy, but even he can see this might not be a good thing. He knows at some level that the Fremen will become fanatics, and that billions will die because of that fanaticism. Considering that his son eventually becomes the worst tyrant that ever existed, he has reason to worry.
I think this is one of the most intelligent, in-depth, and meticulous reviews you've done in awhile. I really hope you end up seeing the 2020 movie adaptation by Denis Villeneuve. Maybe seeing the story adapted for modern audiences will give you another valuable perspective 🎥
@DM Animation Yay! 😍😍😍
Man I'm so excited for the dune movie! Bladerunner 2049 was freaking incredible so it makes me happy same guy is doing dune
Nailed it! I'm 60 pages in and the writing is intense. The word usage, and the plot building... I've never read a book so slowly in my life! Constantly looking up words. I'm annotating this book, and I don't do that with other books. I feel this book should be a must read for highschool, if not for the vocabulary, but the thought provoking content.
I'm so glad you picked up on Paul not being "the chosen one" heck he's not the chosen one three times over (breeding, freeman, and mentat). He fears what he is. He looses so much of his humanity. It is a great deconstruction of the troupe.
And it's taken to its logical conclusion in Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.
i always thought a great part of the narrative was it was the first book to really deal with what a 'chosen one' really means to the world he's supposed to save, and how naive it is to think such a thing would be painless
Merphy: I need a Silmarillion for Dune
Me, a Dune stan: *I DIDN'T KNOW I NEEDED THAT, BUT I DO*
@@Bellsprouts69 There is also the channel "A Story of Ice and Fire" It started out as a Game of Thrones channel, but it branched out into the Dune and Foundation series. there is a lot of information on that channel.
Read the legends of dune series... Explained a lot, not as good writing ,but amazingly entertaing.
I’ve read Dune 3 times in my life so far
Once in Afghanistan and once in Oman so I absolutely absorbed how it would feel to be isolated on a desert planet
Love the book and the series that continued
Same. It doesn't sound like Merph is continuing, which is to bad. Heretics and Chapterhouse are stinkin great.
Good places to read them since I'm pretty sure the Fremen are based on Bedouin culture.
@@christopherbacon1077 yeah and America loves attacking that region for it's oil .. ahem spice
@@technicaldeathmetalhead
I'm English not American
@@jameswitts3793 I never said you were. I'm just lamenting the fact that such a rich cultural region is only reduced to "ooh it has oil" kind of like everyone's like "ooh it has the spice" without appreciating the rich history and culture there.
We also have to keep in mind Dune was originally published in segments in an auto repair magazine. So that could explain the over explaining of some aspects.
I’m surprisingly early so I’ll use this opportunity.
Merphy, your videos are always excellent and I love your in-depth reviews on genres and books, keep doing what you’re doing!
Merphy coming out with videos like the flash⚡
Walter Pinkman If walt and jesse married I feel like Walt wouldn’t take Jesse’s name
@@ezraminard2986 should've thought about that when choosing the username lmao
You doing a review on Dune is my two favourite book related things clashing together. You put your words very good about the themes of Dune!
Your videos are escapism 😊 I have to say that just listening to you talk in such detail and with such passion is really calming, and helps calm anxious feelings ☺️ thanks for your work.
8:45 I think sharing "the betrayers" thoughts in that conversation scene was Herbert's way of teaching the reader more about the Bene Gessarit's and their abilities than it was in sharing "the betrayers" thoughts. Rather than Herbert telling us all about the bene gessarit and their abilities, he shows us how on edge a simple conversation with one can make someone who seeks to betray them and their family. It also shows the reader that they aren't infallible. Before that scene, I found myself thinking, "Well, why didn't they know this, or that already if they're a bene gessarit?" But after that scene, and seeing how their abilities can be subverted, I no longer asked myself that question. Idk, that was my interpretation on the "sharing of thoughts" anyway. Cheers!
Spot on.
Great addition. Subconciously I knew throughout the book that Bene Gesserit women weren't just lie detectors that you couldn't get passed, Bene Gesserit could also be tricked or betrayed. Even though I didn't pick up on it until you laid it out here, that chapter probably helped me form that belief about Jessica and other Bene Gesserit. Even later in the book, Reverend Mothers like Mohiam are not infallible.
My daughter and I viewed together. This was our first time watching you.
We are choosing a book series for study. Dune ended up on the short list, along with Hyperion and The Hitchiker's five-part trilogy.
Thanx for the different kind of review. It was refreshing to hear about the writing and not just content.
I always love to see people read Dune for the first time. Dune is weird, either you get it or you don't. The only way to know if Dune is for you or not is, to read Dune.
Fair.
So I also just read Dune for the first time, literally finished just yesterday. I was a little wary as so many people seem to say they can't get into it or don't like Herbert's writing style. I respect that opinion, but I also didn't have that experience at all. I loved it! I will say that you said you thought it might be better reading it with a super-fan or a course, Comicbookgirl19 here on TH-cam has done a Dune Club for the first two books and she is one of those people. I watched a few of them and she does a great job breaking down some of what is going on, gives you some background on Frank Herbert, how the book came together, some of the core philosophies Herbert infused into Dune, etc. It helped understand some things that weren't explained that well like Yueh's conditioning and why people refused to believe he would betray anyone. I don't think this is a perfect book because what I had the most trouble on was picturing some of the scenes in the desert and caves in book 2 and 3, but I found myself lost in thought on philosophy, ethics of power, and how easily people can be manipulated. Not for everyone, but worth a try.
Merphy, thank you for reviewing Dune. I'm a Dune nut. I fell in love with the Movie as a kid. Because of horrible dyslexia I have never read a physical book. When I found out about Audiobooks at 18 Dune was the first book I listened to. Since then I've listened to thousands of books. Dune is and will always be my favorite book. I have every book in the series. All six of Frank Herbert's and all 14 of Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's contributions to the universe. I always wanted more at the beginning of Dune. You jump straight into that story with so much untold. Brian and Kevin have written 3 book prequel books that lead up to Paul's birth. Then they also jumped back 10000 years to tell the vary beginnings of the story. Like I said I'm a nut. I'm glad you liked Dune I hope you give the rest of the series a go.
Dune lore is intense. Nearly LOTR intense.
That's only half true, the time line is simply longer I think. The details of stuff like the Butlarian jihad are unimportant, as the effects are really the important take away from historical events like that.
@@Shinigami13133 @jarrod nash
Butlerian Jihad is important in explaining why computers are not allowed so much so on a religious level. It's considered sin & heresy to create computers. Therefore we have Mentats("super" human calculators memory & knowledge holders)in the Universe. It shows the amount of world building behind the ideas FH was trying to get across. AI technology is evil and will inhibit natural human evolution.
Dune is a book about ecology, metaphysics, political systems, economics, and messianic religion, all dressed-up as a science fictional entertainment. It was written as a sort-of Aesop's fable for the Sixties audience, as all of those things were what was uppermost in almost everyone's minds. So you are spot-on, Merph, that Frank Herbert's agenda in writing this novel extends beyond telling a straightforward story, and is more about educating people on the world around them, at the time. And in all of his succeding Dune novels, he developes these ideas further, the difference being that these millenia-spanning novels become more intricate and involving, story-wise, and he puts most of the weight for examining the issues raised into the capable hands of Princess Irulan, among others, and the blurbs they offer before each chapter.
Blah, blah, blah -- I didn't mean to get so overly verbose in telling you that as a diehard fan of the Duniverse, I really, really appreciated your honest, well-though-out review. Dune isn't everyones cup of sappho juice, nor does it have to be. But I am glad that you recognise the importance of this book. Thanks for that.
I'm reading Dune for the first time right now, and my feelings on the book are really similar to yours. There's so much thought-provoking, well-written, well-thought-out ideas and concepts, and then there's all the internal monologues that just don't sit right with me. But even though they sometimes really annoy me, I'm really enjoying the book as a whole.
Its always nice to see the main criticisms be easily overcome by preference or simply due to the rest being so good.
Dune is one of my favourite Si-Fi series but I find that the first book is just an introduction (despite being very long) nd the depth of what Franck Herbert was trying to do shines in the 4th book (God Emperor of Dune). Another Si-Fi series that I really love is Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, mostly the first 2 books Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion, really fascinating stories and concepts.
I mean to be honest you really have to read the entire series to fully understand what he was trying to do say but I do understand why a lot of people stop at God emperor it goes from deep and nuanced to extremely deep and extremely nuanced in chapter House and heretics (I had to read the last two books a few times before I fully understood them) it's also important to note that Frank Herbert died before finishing the series so I'm guessing we don't fully know what he was trying to say with his masterpiece
finally my people who recognize god emperor of dune 's greatness. in my opinion its his most profound work . Leto as a character is so complex and his emotions so tragic . the idea of leto being both the most human person to exist while also being the most inhuman.
@@mmilo131 completely agree, man I have to read it again
@@mmilo131 Leto is the most incredible character ever written in fiction. He is absolutely the most tragic, heroic, horrible, saintly, demonic, and yes human character I have ever read. The prescience trap is truly horrifying.
I believe that Dune makes a lot more sense after you've read Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. Some of the characters and developments in those books really provide that additional world building. Then when you go back, things like Yueh's betrayal being seen as truly impossible make more sense.
"I like dune"
Me: *cries in danielgreene*
Ive been watching the Reading Dune podcast on youtube as a companion guide to the book after i read a chapter. Helps me catch things I miss in the story and provides a discussion on the reading.
This book being one of my favorites, the first time I read this, I quit reading it even before finishing the first chapter. The new and strange concepts, strange words, were all kind of overwhelming. But I decided to sit down and read no matter what and my god. Lets just say that I really am glad that I did.
I'm reading the books now, on book 2. I'm more fascinated with the ideas of how people have cognitively evolved in the next several thousand years than the plot. And I do truly enjoy that aspect. But at best the narrative is a thought study on how peoples make and destroy their own heroes and prophets; the plot itself is merely serviceable.
The plot being merely serviceable is a product of modern storytelling. The book is old. At the time it was written, the story was groundbreaking in a lot of ways, and alongside other writers like Asimov, Clarke, Banks, Moor, Gunn, Pohl, Chandler, Brown (and a few more), it set up the very foundations of modern science fiction and storytelling. The genre has evolved and the mantle since passed on to a newer and modern generation of storytellers that have the breadth and wealth of past works to draw upon.
I would argue that in it's own context, the plot transcends servicability and becomes the proper conduit for which the ideas have been presented without the need or pretence to be bigger or greater than how people would act/react/take action on behalf of the knowledge and culture presented there.
Reading fresh from today, it falls short of how we want or expect our material to be presented to us.
i personally found the narration/ inner monologue (what you took issue with) to be one of the more riveting aspects of the book! It shows that these humans have become so aware and conscious of behavior that every single conversation has become a chess game to them. That chapter in the arakeen dining room was more exciting than any fight scene in the book imo haha.
Yes! My thoughts exactly
Merphy, the main reason I enjoy you and your channel is that I relate with a lot of your feelings regarding many genres I like, and with Dune was no different. What I appreciated the most about this novel are the concepts, the philosophy, and the environment; way more than the plot itself, and I have a huge respect for Herbert, how he inserted these discussion themes into the story. Honestly, I did not enjoy a bunch of characters, and I felt their lore was quite shallow, with the plot being the factor for the themes I previously mentioned. You did an amazing review, and I expect to read this book in the future, with a new perspective.
I am glad you picked up on how the book is not a savior trope. And yes, you will get more every time. The book is a anti-trope story and a cautionary tale. The rest of the series lays this out. Hope you see the movie! (edit format issue)
I watched this review a couple of years ago, and just watched it for the second time and this is a wonderfully worded review, that is as interesting to listen to as reading a good story. What an intelligent person you seem, with great observation skills and the focus to pull insight from a book that obliterates my general engagement levels with a story. Being easy on the ears and eyes does not hurt the review either. Superb.
I discovered the joy of re-reading Dune way back when I realized the last three books had never been translated, so I re-read the first three to read the last three. And I've since re-read the saga every 5-7 years. Every time I discover new aspects of the story; get lost in side-stories I glossed over last time. It's the mark of an amazing story, that it grows with you. :)
I appreciate your take on Dune as the first time reader that you are. You mentioned that you felt there were a lot of concepts you probably didn’t catch. Don’t feel bad about that; that is one the amazing things about this book. You can go back and re-read it time and again, and catch nuances and themes you had previously overlooked. I hope you re-re-re-read it and get the full enjoyment out of it. Then you can do a update vlog on it. Cheers.
The problem is the guy who betrayed him basically had a certificate saying that was impossible. The reason this keeps getting reiterated is to show how much they blindly trusted the certification. I think this is a critique that even a person in a benevolent authority position could be turned for personal reason. It will be interesting to see how the new movie handles all this internal dialogue. I doubt they will do voice overs like David Lynch again.
That's an interesting thing to read into it. Makes me think of Bryan Caplan's The Case Against Education.
Still, I don't think it's fair to dismiss the Atreides trust in Wellington Yueh as a garden-variety case of credentialism. Over thousands of years, no one had ever managed to subvert a Suk doctor's conditioning. It really was an extraordinary feat, marking Baron Vladimir as possibly the greatest purveyor of perversion and corruption who ever lived.
Perhaps the lesson is that, on rare occasions, even things which have always been true may no longer be true?
One of the most effective devises of Dune is that it drops you into the world and leaves so much unexplained. This makes it immersive.
He who controls the spice controls the universe
Kudos to Merphy for refraining from saying spice melange. I still don't know how she did it but it is quite the fun word to say.
"This is a story that I feel like I could read a thousand times, and each time come out with new interpertations and discussion pieces, and pieces of the world, even though I'm reading the same text over and over again."
That's what I like to call, "old-fashion sci-fi". It's not about great impressions and "look how this character is cool" or "check my not-magic system!" (though you had some of those as well, especially Heinlein) but rather about "still waters run deep". This is from the psychedelic-experimental writing, where a story was more about exploring ideas, and less about plot and payoffs, etc. Others for example: Kurt Vonnegut, Phillip K. Dick, Ray Bradbury. You could also find some that later became movies: The Thing, Silent Running, Logan's Run, Annhilation, Solaris (1976 - also a great book), Moon, Naked Launch, etc.
Dune has a special place for me, I read it when I was still rather young (it was at that time the largest book I had read), during a hot summer and I made my first attempts at cooking on my own (and of course I put cinnamon in everything because of this book). Still, I am not angry at this review, I actually like people discovering this book, and I really hope Villeneuve will do it justice and that his film version will draw also more people in.
Great review!! Just some thoughts, surrounding the internal dialogue. As someone fascinated by psychology and criminal psychology, I found these fascinating. For example the betrayal and how much yuhe thinks about it. It's all consuming to him, versus how clueless everyone else seems to be. I feel like in real life people who say they never saw things coming are much like Jessica and Paul and criminals are a lot like yueh. I took that as a glimpse into their thought process and how these things can happen when we all think they're unthinkable.
I think the "Betrayal scenes" were trying to show how reluctant and well trusted the Betrayer was. It may have been over the top, but I always saw it as a way to convey how guilty they felt about it, like really bad, really really bad, bad bad, really bad bad lol, and that they were so trusted someone could tell the victim that this person would decapitate them and the response would be, "Oh, dear. I must will have contracted gangrene and they had to amputate to save me." It was a way to build tension, but more importantly is was a crisis of identity for the person involved and was the only thing they could ever think of, it consumed them.
Great review. You managed to encapsulate all my complicated feelings about this book perfectly!
Your frustration with the characters not suspecting the betrayer (around 9:45) completely misses the point - no one suspected him because of their absolute belief in Suk conditioning - they thought it was a literal impossibility that he would betray them. This may seem like a plot cop-out, but I think it's quite a poignant commentary about human blind-spots with faith in processes, especially in this world Herbert created to say "here's the danger with charismatic leaders and super-humans". You filed this under not liking his writing style, but in this instance it seems more like you misunderstood the reason the characters never suspected him.
Also, The Dune Encyclopedia is a thing that exists, and is basically the Silmarillion you desire.
Also, you couldn't know this from your first time reading it (unless you did research first) but the 1st book isn't the full story. And I don't mean that in the sense that Dune spans 8 books, but rather that Dune wasn't actually a book. It was serially published in a magazine. So was Dune Messiah, which became the second book. They were made into books later. Dune Messiah is truly the completion of the first part of the story - it completes the arc of Muad'dib. Messiah is necessary reading in order to understand the story Herbert wanted to tell. But you're right that these books are a medium for his philosophy: "charismatic leaders should come with warning labels: may be dangerous to your health."
Lastly this is just a difference of opinion, I think the world-building in Dune is first class. It's just of a different type than other media. Herbert rarely spends time describing how people or locations look, for instance. So so much of the look of things is left to your imagination. Also, it's probably the least sci-fi sci-fi story ever, despite being one of the most popular sci-fi stories. There isn't much focus on future tech. On the other hand, the ecology of Dune is incredible. The deep understanding and respect Herbert had for ecology is clearly evident. And yeah, he wanted to tell a more political and philosophical story, so the worldbuilding is much more focused on the politics of the world, and the "worlds" of the characters minds, which are interesting since their minds have evolved so much further than current-day human minds. It's still world building, just not the world building most people expect in a sci-fi story.
I do believe that Dune Messiah should complete a trilogy of Denis Villeneuve adaptations of Frank Herbert's works. Two films to comprise the first book and DM to finish the trilogy. Children of Dune can continue as a standalone film along with God-Emperor, fingers crossed. Heretics, Chapterhouse, Sandworms, and Hunters should be televised, methinks...
@@FVD That would be awesome. I already expect I'll see Dune 2020 in theaters multiple times, and I hope it gets tremendous public support so he can keep making these films.
Great review. I appreciate your ability to critically analyze the story for its themes and meaning, something that eludes most other reviewers.
Probably my favorite book of all time, even after sixteen read throughs I still get so much out of it more than any other novel. The next five are just as poigniant, particularly God Emperor of Dune. It's the only series where I whipped out a notebook to write down quotes as I was reading and still go back to them over 20 years after the first read. Phenomenal stuff
i had put so many Dune Cycle quotes in my agenda back in highschool
I appreciate the thoughtful review and at the same time I love the "betraying" segment. Thank you!
IMO, one of the coolest things Herbert did in Dune was almost entirely negate guns, bombs, etc. by the introduction of shield technology. At the time, I was just discovering European fencing and Japanese kendo, so it was so awesome to discover a sci-fi universe in which sword fighting was relevant once again, and not just in personal duels and such.
Just set the story in the past like asoiaf. Didn't need to be future.
I've debated reading Dune for a couple of years now, and I think I'd have to be in the mood for it, but your review has finally convinced me I need to pick it up at some point!
There is an encyclopedia for dune that dose detail the history of Dune. For anyone just getting into the Dune series just a couple of things to be aware of. Books 1,2, and 3 are one arch and the books after that the 3rd book assume that you read them. Also the books written by Brain Herbert the son of Frank Herbert are divisive in the Dune community as to whether they should be canon or not.
They should not, they are incompatible, brian and kevin visibly misunderstood the Buttlerian Jihad. Frank Jihad was because men where using machine too much they where becoming compleasant and they believed it stopped human evolution because we did not struggle anymore, Brian they where literally fighting Skynet
I definitely feel you with this review, I had the same issues with the book as you did. His writing style is so unique but does sometimes feel repetitive with how he covers the same ground over and over with internal thoughts but damn if I don't love the book. Its just such a fascinating world that Frank has created you can't help but be pulled into it and want to go deeper into its his message and the themes throughout.
I often wonder if the way it was written is indicative of when it was written: the way that Herbert portrays the story reminds me of The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula LeGuin which, I think, was written within a few years of Dune. They both focus more on the philosophical nature of their universes rather than the action.
I agree. The Left Hand of Darkness is amazing.
Yes... Yes... YES! As someone how loves "Dune" and "The Left Hand of Darkness" never crossed my mind that this two books have some similarities.
Thanks for bringing this to the light!
Hi Merphy! Your comment about the heavy internal thoughts is so true and a definite trait of Dune. So much so that when Lynch made the movie adaptation (which I love as much as the book), he did tons of voice-overs to replicate that same vibe in the book. Great review, your perspective is always refreshing!
I listened to this with my eyes closed and envisioned Meg Griffin reviewing Dune.
Bro that is an amazing comment
Hahaha
Lmao I hope I assume correctly and this is not meant to be mean spirited but that's hilarious
Loved how in-depth this was. Great points on psychic distance, Point of view, voice.
I was 300 pages in for dune to click with me and then I fell in love with it
Agree - when Paul and Jessica went into the desert that’s when I really started to enjoy it. It really irritated me that on the back of the book it tells you that Duke Leto dies which I felt like I was constantly waiting for.
How about that second time through? Good, right? :)
The Sci-Fi mini-series got me hooked on sci-fi as a kid (10years old) as a teen an adult became my all-time favorite book series hope you stick with it at least a god emperor (I can kind of see why people lose interest after that I didn't but it's definitely understandable) as the emperor so wisely proclaimed the spice must flow lol
@@theinevitablegodemperordea4278 yeah I got to god emperor already kinda tired of the series and the fact that they kept reviving that one guy sorry it’s been a few years over and over and he wasn’t even an interesting character or important to the original plot really bothered me but I did like that Leto was a big worm
Late to the party but I felt I should point out that the betrayor is an early introduction to a common theme in Herbert's Dune: Humanity's frequent overtrust in institutional promises.
I read whole series few times, and i love it.
How to read Dune series:
Pay attention to keywords related to RELIGION and POLITICS.
When such a key word is encountered, go back half page or sometimes whole page and reread it slowly, lots of things is just implied, so pay attention to deeper implications.
This book series is about mechanics of politics, mechanics of religion and mechanics of military power, how those 3 mechanics interplay and also devastating effects of politics on human lives. In other words it is a political science or a political philosophy textbook in a form on novel series. (From Your review i see that You get it, but You are struggling with finding words to express it).
Fremen are not snowflakes :-)
Dune has probably had me re reading sections as you describe more than any other book. Reading on auto pilot or skimming will leave you directionless.
I would totally ride a sandworm XD
That’s what she said.
Only if its your true Desire or Destiny, or perhaps if you Dream about it
Just watched the 2021 movie of Dune. I immediately told my friends, "there's no way Hollywood made a universe THIS elaborate. It's gotta be a book." Didn't expect it to be a LOOOOOONGGG A$$ series lol. I've been reading reviews that the first book can be treated as a standalone novel. With all that being said, as a newbie to the Duniverse, should I get the Movie-cover title or the Hardback Deluxe Edition with the nice artwork on the cover? Would appreciate any suggestions! 😂😂
It doesn’t matter.
get a version that you like. but most important is that you can carry it wherever you go, so that whenever you get the urge to read, you can.
Odd that you didn't know it was a book already.
LOVE Denis Villeneuve's film adaptation, so def gonna go buy the book!! Thanks Merph!!!!!!!!!!!
This has never been "on my radar" but with the new film coming out, I might give it a try. Maybe. My main concern is the omnipresent narrative, I get confused easily and I feel like it could potentially confuse me.
There are worse things than being confused. I haven't read the book, but don't let that concern stop you from reading something you might enjoy.
Dune is not confusing in you can not tell who is talking and it thinking all the characters have a distinct voice. That can it can be confusing in some off the metaphysics and ecology If you are not familiar with those topics.
I don’t think it’ll be a problem. Dune explains every characters motivation, it explains every plan. Usually you know chapters ahead of time when someone is going to die or get betrayed, and the interesting part is HOW that will happen.
While I agree with the other replies, if you have a history of being confused in this way with reading books like this, my suggestion would actually be to wait for the new movie. Watch Dune Part One, then read the first half of the book (you can finish it if you prefer though), then after Dune Part Two you can read the rest. That might help you understand the flow a bit better, if you are concerned about being confused.
I'm late to this comment party as I've just finished reading the six main Dune books for the first time and am currently reading The Road to Dune which seems to me, so far, to be the closest thing to a "Silmarillion for Dune" as you put it. Just wanted to say great video! You've got a new subscriber in me!
Dune, a great book. Read it back in 1989....due a re-read I think as well as me going on to some of the others in the series. Keep up the good work, your vids are great.
Thank you for such a complex spoiler free review, I was really trying to decide whether I wanted to partake in this book before lost worlds but since it seems so intricate and immersive, I’ll wait till after so I can really deep dive into the world, thanks for such a detailed review! As always you nailed it 👌🏼
Also, someone's already mentioned it in the comments, but check out Quinn's Ideas here on youtube. He's made a whole series on the Dune saga that are really helpful in making sense of its contents. He's one of my favourite youtubers, too.
I really love Herbert's writing style. It does have that sense of "myth" or prophecy to it. For example, when Yueh is introduced, some of his first thoughts are "man its going to suck when I betray these guys". Then we see him betray them. Then later on everyone is like "man didn't it suck when Yueh betrayed us?" we get to be not a fly on the wall, but a kind of passive god in the Dune universe, watching things play out even as we pretty much know what the end result is going to be.
It's like reading the Bible. We know Judas will betray Jesus, we sit with Judas while he thinks about and laments betraying Jesus, then we see him betray Jesus and the moment still has gravity and weight even though we knew it was coming. The betrayal was also a way to comment on slavishly adhering to "known" or widely accepted information. It's "known" that the Suk conditioning "cannot be broken", so even though it's painfully obvious that Yueh is likely the traitor, to the characters, it's literally impossible to concieve of because they've bought into the popular dogma of the day. A bit of a meta-anlysis, but Yueh's betrayal is actually the only recorded case of Suk conditioning being "broken" (it was actually bent, more than broken) and even that was only due to a set of infinitely unique circumstances.
In regards to the prophetic quality of the book, for example, Paul talks about his "terrible purpose", then we just watch as that terrible purpose comes to fruition. If, at the end of the book, someone were to say "holy shit I didn't see that coming", I'd wonder if we read the same book. The end is practically laid out from the beginning and the inevitability is ultimately what makes it compelling.
I enjoyed hearing what you thought about the book however in regards to Yueh there are several mentions of why they don't suspect him. The main thing being that he is conditioned in a way that makes him loyal and as far they know this conditioning is impossible to break.
It would be awesome to see you do either a spoiler review where you can go into more detail or a discussion video/podcast where you just talk about the book with someone else or others who have read it.
When I was a kid back in the 80s my parents told me that Dune was required reading when they were in High School.
It really should be
Honestly I'm a 90s kid and I think it still should be the whole series not just book one
@@DecoyJayc shit I wish we read that in school
Great review. One point I disagree with is the book not being for casual reading or escapism.
I read this each night after a long day to 1000% escape to a planet and a cool story.
The little details he throws at you, the cool thing is, you don't have to catch every single one to still have the story come together and for you to eventually pick up on what is going on.
Love the review and the thought/perspective you have offered here.
Is it my imagination or did you just "friendzoned" a book?
Ha ha ha :-)
I believe she did!
no me gustas-gustas, sólo me gustas - Hey Arnold.
Frank Herbert's prose is incredible. I mean, have a you ever seen a more beautiful description of the night sky than this, ""A predawn hush had come over the desert basin. He looked up. Straight overhead, the stars were a sequin shawl flung over blue-black. Low on the southern horizon, the night's second moon peered through a thin dust haze - an unbelieving moon that looked at him with a cynical light."
Well, the betrayal is what's on his mind all the time and keeping it from her is a constant walk on a razor's edge. I guess him not appearing at all would be the only way to stop repeating his thoughts ^^ And nobody is suspicious of him because he literally can't hurt anyone.
I am so glad I reread Dune as an adult. I totally saw this book differently and it was so awesome.
Merphy trying hard not to say "I didn't really like reading this book, but I don't want to alienate my audience".
Dune is like a book with recipes - I respect the content, even though I would never read it for fun.
I get how it could have come off that way, but that's not really what I was trying to get across. It's more like, I loved the concept and discussion of this book and I'm really glad I read it, but because of certain writing choices, I didn't enjoy the process of reading it. So I'm just really mixed on how I felt about it and that's been hard for me to articulate
@@merphynapier42 With Dune I would say, It's one of those stories where once you are on the third(Children Of Dune) it just all becomes clear. One cannot judge the series without the 3rd. At least in my opinion.
ishan bajpai ugh, I hated that book. I couldn’t even finish it. I felt like Dune was Herbert’s life’s work, and every book after it was a sad a attempt at satisfying his publisher.
@@ishanbajpai6940I am SO a complete head-over-heels fan, but the 3rd book was the one I liked the least. I get what you're saying though. And I'll add that if as you say you need the 3rd book to understand the story, you need the 4th book to understand the WORLD.
@@merphynapier42 I feel the same way about Wheel of Time.
A really fair and balanced review. Others have commented on the betrayer and why no one suspects him. One theme I see in the book is the fallibility / arrogance of man. Almost all characters undoing is caused by the thing they are supposedly best at. The person who cannot harm a fly betrays the people he cares about and the person who is an expert in reading human emotion doesn’t pick up on the betrayal because she is too empathetic. After the dialogue you discussed it clearly states that she knew the betrayer was holding something back, but she didn’t want to embarrass him by forcing it out of him.
Other examples:
- the inspirational leader is betrayed and killed
- the perfect logician joins his enemy because he uses false information as the basis for his logic
- the scientist is killed by the thing he studies
- a political order loses everything they have tried to build because they fail to anticipate that it can arise, in a different way than the one they have precisely plotted out
Etc.
I can't wait for the movie!
The cast is full of talented actors.
Same I really really hope it does well so that we can at least see an adaptation of God emperor of Dune
Thanks for the review! This one is on my TBR list for sure.
You summed up my thoughts precisely. Due to the bad writing (or writing that irritated me more than I would like) I believe I lost a lot of what the book was trying to convey :( I am considering reading it in a translation, maybe it will read better.
Considering the density of the start of this novel. One of the (many) concepts that herbert plays with like silly putty is how context affects perspective. Consider how the fremen treat paul as a deity but we know that their entire saviour myth has been planted by the space witches.
The first 50 or so pages of Dune is frank herbert telling you EXACTLY what is going to happen to the Atreides, down to the name of the traitor, but not telling you WHY it's going to happen. He does this throughout the book; action followed by set up.
Man I love this book
I had a similar experience with Dune. I also read the second book which is quite short so I found it strange that there's a large time jump from the end of book 1 to the end of book 2. I get the feeling Herbert wanted to tell a great story but really didn't like writing.
It's a cultural phenomenon that I guess you kinda had to be there at the time to fully appreciate. After book 2 I'm indifferent about finishing the trilogy and unlikely to begin the 2nd trilogy. But i did just start WOT and it doesn't seem like the author had a problem writing at all. 😂
I'm late to this discussion, but this is the best description and review of Dune that I've seen or read. So many "Dune Geeks" like me get so excited describing Dune and we get over analytical. "...the point of Dune was to discuss a lot of deeper topics, and the story was a medium to discuss, but the story itself isn't nearly as important as the discussions." Perfect description of what Frank Herbert was wanting to achieve in my opinion...I'm using that whenever I'm asked again what Dune is about!
If you think DUNE is one of the most fascinating books you've ever read, God Emperor of DUNE is like "hold my spice beer". It's one of the most intriguing philosophical books ever written but suffers from lack of notoriety because you need to read the books before it to really have your mind blown. It's nearly complete poetry.
yeah. true!
While trying to read this book, i was also lost with the world that was written as the new vocabulary created just for this world. But I was determined to finish this book and mid way through my reading i found the "Reading Dune" podcast. Thanks to them i was able to understand the universe of Dune and made it possible after every chapter to be more about dissecting the chapter as opposed to questioning what was going on.
Read the sequels if you want more exploration and answers. I strongly encouarge you to read up until Children of Dune. At least give Dune Messiah a shot. Because Messiah is not really a new installment but rather a epilogue to the book 1. I like the sequels even more than the first one because Herbert twists the tropes that he built in the first book and gives the reader a clear understanding what was really going on. He really tried warn us about messianic figures and charismatic leaders might have done to world around us If they were given that kind of corruptable power.
I quite liked Dune and have also read Dune Messiah, but I'm not a super fan or anything like that. That said, I do have a tattoo on my arm saying "fear is the mind-killer" and I know the whole litany off by heart. I use it to cope with anxiety and stuff sometimes. "I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me."
The Wheel of Time influenced by Dune? I read Eye of the World before Dune and I noticed how much the premice is inspired by Dune and Lord of the Rings.
Aes Sedai of WoT is basically the Bene Gesserit.
In book 4 it is even more clear. The ending even takes elements of the ending of the 1984 movie, that was not in the Dune book (and is even a little antithetical to the book).
I watched the 80s movie 3 or 4 times as a child. Then read the book at 16. Then again at 21, 32, & 36. The original impression I had of it as a 7 year old boy just got deeper and deeper and deeper.
The audio version with a full voice cast is excellent; put it in your car. You’ll catch a lot on the 2nd go through. Then watch the movies (3rd version coming out soon) and reread.
Then move on to book 2 and so forth. Once you’re comfortable with the universe it all makes sense. Though often in hind-sight. It’s a lot to take in. Science, history, politics, futurism. Just take your time with it and revisit when you’re ready. : )
To your point that there was little action: yeah, there’s not a lot of physical action. The action is more in the political gears turning. Leto, Paul, Jessica, Yueh, Hawat, Baron Harkonnen, Feyd Rautha, the Emperor, Liet-Keynes, and the Guild, all angling and plotting and trapping and using each other. How all of those things went according to plan or had unintended consequences. So yeah, there not a lot of action. Dune is like an intricate game of chess with 20 players set in an absolutely gorgeous world.
About Yueh: I think I agree with you here. I wish there had been less heavy handed foreshadowing and more explanation as to what exactly the conditioning is that Suk Doctors go through making them unable to betray. I read some other comments and saw someone say Suk Doctors are conditioned to do not harm. That makes sense, Yueh would have been doing harm to his wife by not doing what he was asked to save her life. He did the least harm possible given his information. But none of that was explained. I think if it had been it would have helped a lot.
Something I would have liked in the book is if we got more information about The Old Duke, Leto’s father. All we really know is that Leto was the Emperor’s cousin and that the Old Duke (Leto’s father) was gored to death by a boar and was a savage man. We see Paul compared to the Old Duke in the end, turning savage and not caring for humans the way Leto did. The parallel between Paul and the Old Duke was mentioned, but I didn’t have enough information to feel satisfied.
And I’ll say one more thing: I only got to book 3 in the series and I don’t recommend you go down that rabbit hole. The series is weak. There are interesting concepts explored, but the characters aren’t as strong and the plot feels contrived and forced.
You're so right. For every physical knife fight in the book, there are a dozen verbal 'knife fights' that are equally tense and satisfying! I think that is where the omniscient third person really shines because it reveals the balance of power and how it shifts with each comment and rebuttal.
I read Dune thinking it was a stand-alone novel and I never felt it needed any sequels. From what I've read online, the rest of the series is (even) less character- and action-driven, to the point of abandoning the original characters altogether. No, I love Dune just the way it is.
@@Geert2682 no the later books are very character driven to the point of there barely being a plot, but the new characters aren't interesting enough to make it work.
Dune is a stupendous act of imagination. It has so many deeper levels: ecology, leadership, and what is it is to be human and inhuman. The incredible thing is that while it deals with vast concepts it is seen through the prism of personalities. This novel has real personalities as much as ideas. It is necessary to read the dictionary in the back to understand. Given what is happening in the world this book will get bigger.
This is very similar to how I felt after reading Dune - very much in two minds, appreciating it but not sure how much I actually enjoyed it
I had the experience you say you wish you had: I first read Dune as a part of a book club with a superfan (Comicbookgirl 19 aka Danika XIX). I hope you keep reading the series since you loved the world so much!
Great video! I agree on all your points and I would like to provide my interpretation of why there’s so much inner monologue. Partly style of course, partly because it’s the 60s and authors had a much different style before the 70s and 80s Id say. But I think specifically in the last decade or two decades, a lot of the mainstream novels and movies were noir so he was surrounded with that high amount of inner monologue. I believe it came naturally to him given the state of media leading up to and when he was writing the book.
Yes, Dune is Frank Herbert's Thesis on Political Science, Ecology, Court Intrigue, Messianic Figures, and Technology.
It is frustrating on the first read, and then it becomes more fascinating and deep with repeat readings. When I read it the first time at 11, way back in the 80's, there were many things that I did not grok at that time. It has been a learning curve, Dune. It's a book I love to return to every 2 years or so. You will always find something new in it's cavernous 800+ pages.