Why Do We Love DUNE?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2024
- Frank Herbert's Dune has made its reputation as the most popular supposedly unpopular piece of pop culture. How did we get here?
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I LOVE that dune is a story where the ostensible “good guy” winning is a genuinely terrifying and horrific thing
That's because he's not a "good guy" but rather an anti-hero and borderline villain willing to manipulate an entire religion group made of millions into taking up arms against the greedy, elitists and dehumanized "aristocracy" of the Dune universe to avenge his family's destruction and kickstart a new Era able to end the decadence which has plagued Humanity since the discovery of the spice melange.
It's such a powerful subversion
@@Jess_of_the_Shire 'Pageturners' by Pat Mills addresses the issues that Mills has with superheroes if you're at all interested.
I can kinda see why Tolkien wasn't too fond of it
I was so relieved when I picked up Messiah and realized, okay, cool, I'm not crazy, he really IS a monster, that was intentional on Herbert's part. I guess people smarter than me picked up on that from the first book alone but I still wasn't sure about it.
Dune always has a special place in my heart. When I was slightly younger than Paul in the first book, I met Frank Herbert and got a signed copy of Dune. I was so shy and nervous that I asked a nearby lady if she wanted to go before me. She said “no thanks” as Frank Herbert was her husband. 😊
It's also in a special place for me it's called garbage.
@@KyleCox404kk
@@KyleCox404 So what you are saying is your heart is garbage? Figures...
@@wearegeek My garbage is on the floor, and your brain also seems to belong there, beacose you can't think.
@@KyleCox404 that's a good way to make people who already don't like dune.. interested in Dune. But hey speaking for myself here, thanks for having such a toxic and completely unsubstantiated view
“Lead them to paradise” that line gutted me.
Yea. It's been a while since I've read the books, but I don't think that this line is there. It was so chilling! I can't stop thinking about it, especially because I know what happens next.
It’s not, I’ve read Dune a few times. That’s a new addition but it absolutely works.
I really really liked that!! Pretty sure it wasn’t in the novel
Timothee gave a subtle sigh when he delivered this line
So did the fremen literally just jack the spaceships left by the emperor and harkonnen without issues to then fly them into space? That kinda surprised me and made me laugh that it came so effortlessly to them
Millions of Duncans died in the making of this video.
whats up with Duncan n shite?
@@lavatr8322 MASSIVE SPOILERS:
.
.
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After Paul becomes emperor, factions are trying to assassinate him. One of them clones Duncan Idaho (Jason Momoa from the new movies) and gives Paul the clone, called a "ghola", as a gift, but they program it to assassinate him when triggered. Paul knows it's a trap but is tempted to see his old friend again.
In the much farther future, when Paul's son Leto II transforms into a sandworm and becomes the God Emperor, he has this same faction continue cloning Duncan Idaho for thousands of years. It's become something of a meme from the novel God Emperor of Dune, the line "Moneo, bring me another Duncan." I haven't read the later books yet, but I understand he still gets cloned again in later novels.
Yeah that was the only thing that confused me when I was learning about the series 😂
Duncan Donuts
Because it's one of the most ambitious books/series ever written. It's about ecology, politics, religion, it's a statement on the nature of power and the danger of giving away your free will, it touches on the paradox of prescience, it's one of the most thoughtfully mapped out fictional universes set to paper.
But it's also the story of a teenage boy starting a cult, taking drugs, and teaching his cultists such rad space karate that they take over the universe. Truly it contains multitudes.
@markvictor8776 The Fremen were a _culture_ before Paul morphed them into a cult.
It's also The LIfe of Brian in space
@@SonofSethoitae a culture shaped by the BG though.
@@hengineer I didn't say they weren't. Just that there's a difference between being strictly religious and being a fanatical cult.
@@hengineerin a world of prescience who's to say what shaped what? Time is not linear in dune and in order for the prophecy to be true the B.G had to have foreseen the events as they happened in clarity
And it came true, exactly as they were told, and Paul is the Kiszwat haderach, he is the B.G breeding program Messiah, he is in many ways exactly what he says he is
The fremen are right, and much of this to me was foreseen in the past through the limit prescience spice can give, you can say that it doesn't mean anything but in my opinion Paul is the Messiah and everything they believed was proven right
What they did afterwards however is the sins of the people of arrakis
I read this book when I was 20 and homeless in the early 2000s. It was freezing and winter and the books desert themes helped take me away.
I own a house now and am married with kids, but I'll never forget how that book/series helped me so much.
This is awesome. Solid comment.
Happy that you're well!
Thank you both!
As it was written! 😌
❤
“Bless the Maker and His water.
Bless the coming and going of Him.
May His passage cleanse the world.
May He keep the world for His people. ”
I drew a sandworm as Spurdo Spärde on a whiteboard with the accompanying prayer in Spurdo-speak while studying for my college finals. I'm proud of that drawing
@@Leitis_Fella I'd love to have seen it.
The Bene Gesserit would be proud. Their Missionaria Protectiva went viral in the best and worst sense.
@@Leitis_Fella
"Bless dhe Mager and his wader
Bless dhe goming and going of him
May his bassage gleanse dhe world
May he geep dhe world for his beoble"
@@fallinginthed33p and their own breeding plan would lead to mankind being freed from them and their prescience 🤣
It’s interesting considering the role Herbert’s wife played in working so hard to support him from the background to see the role Jessica and Chani play for the men in their lives and Herbert’s perspective on that.
I love that all the new people watching the movies are like “yeah go paul!” I’m waiting for the third one and they’re gonna be SO horrified
That's my favorite thing to watch. There are complaints you can have about Dune, but you can't say it doesn't subvert tropes haha
Remember when Mapes realized Jessica was the one they were waiting for? She said to herself (paraphrasing), "Poor thing." I can't remember if the movie had that detail in it.
It's like yelling "Yeah! Go Anakin go!"
It will be "The last jedi" all over again.
@@Jess_of_the_ShireI'm more worried about the people who will see the third one and -still- yell, "Yeah, go Paul!"
When I was 12 I was so obsessed with Tolkien my dad hid my copy and gave me his Dune, saying I’d get my LotR back once I’d read it. I did and immediately asked “Is there a sequel?”
"Dad I'm 12 and what is an adult beefswelling?"
@@ULTRAOutdoorsman not a question I ever asked, and I’ll bet if I had his answer wouldn’t have been what your thinking of.
@@danielriley7380 dunno what that is in anyway whatsoever and I think I'm good not knowing or caring but I am glad yall are some of the good TH-cam comments that aren't, "dune is garbage," from people who haven't read it. These people are the worst
For me, Dune and LotR share the virtue of the authors creating a self-consistent world but not prosaically explaining the details. They are just the worlds where the stories can happen and the details emerge naturally as the characters encounter them.
This is something I try to achieve in my own writing. I’m not sure I’m as good at it as Tolkien or Herbert though
I would like to add an important book that many don't read because it is so hard to find and also because how of old it is. Journey to the west it's in the eyes of many, like the angular stone for these 2 stories and many more, many who read it can see how much it influenced both the fantasy and science fiction genres, but mainly fantasy.
Heck many say that if Tolkien didn't change somethings from his books, and if you had read journey to the west, it would seem he was copying the whole story of journey to west but in a different scenario.
Hopefully that wasn't the case, but I highly recommend reading this too see how influential was for both books.
Check out Malazan if that's a feature of storytelling you like. There's nothing else quite like it.
Tolkien spent a lot of time explaining the details by means that were beyond the texts of the story's though.
This is also true of The Chronicles of Narnia books.
1. Great video covering Dune
2. Makeup and outfit SO on point
3. Long live the fighters
So true.
Yeah, Jess's makeup and outfit are always good, but they are extra good in this video!
Martyrs live forever
As written
3) ADDAM RESSHI A-ZANTHA!!
There's something so poetic about Herbert's prose, and the unique, alien weirdness of the Duniverse that enraptured me. I adore the first three books.
The prose really manages to drop you in, even if it is a bit clunky at times. For me, it only adds to the charm!
What about book 4?
@@orangemonkey500P2
Book 4 is excellent.
God Emperor went pretty far in the Herberty-weird direction that I needed a break. However, it had a few scenes and lines of dialogue that made me laugh out loud. I also heard that Frank got progressively hornier as the series progressed, which I saw in God Emperor. I just didn't grasp it as well as the previous books
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Outside of some iffy dialogue here and there I can't really recall having any issues with the prose.
The litany against fear got me through my horror birth experience. No joke.
Alia's uncanny knowledge and wisdom isn't why she's called an abomination. Abomination is simply a label given to a 'pre-born' individual who gains all their ancestral memories. Without the benefit of a full personality and the training necessary to resist the ancestral voices which make demands on one's consciousness, the fear is that one of those personalities will eventually take over the individual's mind. It's also worth mentioning that Reverend Mothers who abuse their prana-bindu metabolic training to extend their lives are also referred to as abominations.
Even the Fremen think Alia is creepy because she has the mannerisms and speech of a grown woman in a child's body, in addition to all the powers of a reverend mother - including the weirding way
@@LordVolkov More than that, she became an object of fear and superstition to the Fremen. When she took up the regency on Arrakis she gained enemies among the Fremen who called her 'Coan-Teen', the female death-spirit that walks without feet.
@@goyasolidar I've noticed that a lot of characters similar to alia have been showing up in the last decade
@@TheMarkmcrSuch as?
@@goyasolidar afraid I'm not able to answer that if I can't include video links
Dune first got me when Sting declared, "I will kill him!" It was on TV, back when all we had to watch was TV. I was enthralled. I couldn't afford the books; thank the gods for public libraries.
Sting was such a great Feyd-Rautha. The madness was just below the surface but always in the eyes and I love his flamboyance in the finale.
@@LordVolkov I loved all the Harkonens in that movie. They acted malice/evil/cruel/madness perfectly.
That movie takes a lot of flak, but it's pretty good for a Dino DiLaurentiis production of an Alan Smithee film. And I think it's pretty close to the book.
Thank communism, social democracy, unions and the progressive era
Sting's 'flying underpants'!
I was lucky enough to have a babysitter who read both Tolkien and Dune as naptime stories when I was young.
What a cool babysitter!
Babysitter: it's bedtime
Also babysitter: get comfortable for the next 8 hours as I read Dune 😂
Dune as a child's bedtime story is WILD. 😂
These are my parenting goals. I already sing Tolkien lullabies to my 2.5 year old
@@timpage9424 Even the Lord of the Rings is a bit much for kids, I think. But, Dune...? Lol!
I watched Dune Part 2 on Friday and my life has not been the same, I was not the same person that came out of that screening, from when I came in, the film is a masterpiece of the theme of fate vs free will, ultimately deciding that fate wins over free will, not because it was written in the stars centuries before, but because of who the characters are in nature, and that is the beauty of Dune not just as a film saga but as a piece of fiction
Just wait 'til you've read the 6 books Frank wrote...
Our family name is Idaho and I curse my parents for not calling me Duncan.
Lead them to paradise!
You know now that it is your duty to name your child Duncan. Especially if it's a girl.
WOW. a whole hour of an absolutely MEATY, in-depth, fantastically deep dive into the origins and lore of Dune. I just discovered this TH-cam channel and I'm already loving it! she's so pleasant and earnest and feels this subject so deeply, having come from a nerdy household (that I am instantly jealous of) and steeped in scifi from a very young age. so much cool, intensive Dune information shared so eagerly was perfect for my commute to the office this morning! color me impressed ASF!
I've read all the Dune books. I think it's deep and philosophical and has something so many other sci-fi books lack. I feel like I'm learning about humanity.
Have you tried the audio books? really good.
Are the books as slow and boring as the movies?
@@samuraijosh1595 Much slower. It's not really an action story. More of a space drama.
@@anthonyhowrard526 I have some of them on audio for when I'm driving. Really have to pay attention because it's easy to miss something if you start day dreaming. 😏
@@Shane-zl9ry I`m in a day dream all the time lol!
I use the audiobookbay
Do you like them? every time I read or listen i pick up or understand so much. I read it in my early teens and the depth when I came back to years latter blew me away.
I read Dune in 1971, when I was in 7th or 8th grade. It followed The Hobbit and preceded A Wrinkle in Time. My SF life was well defined from then on.
Dune appeared into my life at the right moment. Just when I was ready for it. It was 2020 and I was very sad.
I was a fan of star wars but I grew tired of getting dissapointed by the same "good vs evil" themes.
I ordered Dune to read what was it about and I got fascinated. Im currently reading Heretics of Dune. I must say that I love Dune as much as I love Tolkien's work.
At 6:48 I thought you said alligators, so I was just imagining an alligator eating spices to travel across the galaxy.
just got back from part two and now this video, great friday
Hope you enjoyed it! I had a ton of fun.
@@Jess_of_the_Shire I have to see it next Saturday because local screening have been selling out like crazy!
I've read the dune series (including, God, Chapterhouse, and heretic's) every year for as long as I can remember, this is one of the most accurate and true to character break downs I've ever sat through. Thank you.
"Greatness is a transitory experience. It is never consistent. It depends in part upon the myth-making imagination of humankind. The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in. He must reflect what is projected upon him. And he must have a strong sense of the sardonic. This is what uncouples him from belief in his own pretensions. The sardonic is all that permits him to move within himself. Without this quality, even occasional greatness will destroy a man." (collected sayings of Muad'dib - by the princess Irulan)
It's kinda fun how early Frank is warning us about "greatness" ..
I agree with JRR tolkien, dune is philosophically pretentious.
@@grosbeak6130 I mean thats fair, at the end of the day its your opinion, but it tries to say something, I like lord of the rings as well, i like all sorts of stories. Granted I kinda gravitated towards more of the darker/deconstructions etc. I guess in a way they were trying to do different things, LOTR was trying to be escapism and tell a good story and fill people with hope. Dune tries to tell a story about people and how looking for a Messiah can cause issues.
I am glad both exist and while it is unfortunate that JRR Tolkien did not like Dune, i do respect that he did not publicly throw it in the mud, because he did not want to ruin someones carrier. Very respectable man.
But yeah I never actually read the book and i struggled too, but it really does have some cool ideas in my opinion, it really has some interesting philosophy to it while LOTR is just "bad people be bad, ultimate power corrupts, evil urukhai be evil" They both do kinda have some stuff with the ecological i guess funnily enough, LOTR with the trees and Dune with the well sand and environment and stuff.
@@tdotitan8855 did Frodo at the end overcome the power of the ring or did he give in to it at the end at Mount Doom? If it wasn't for Gollum would the ring have not been thrown into Mount Doom. Was frodo successful in his mission? No, he wasn't. There is more to JRR Tolkien than many people realize.
@@grosbeak6130tolkien believed in the divine right of kings, though. so not a great source of inspiration in that regard. there's a reason nazis love LotR but not Dune.
@@armorclasshero2103 Nazis also liked the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche, that doesn't really mean anything. And JRR Tolkien clearly didn't care for the Nazi regime. Tolkien fought in world war I and his son in world war II.
Dune is one of those series where we are forced to look in depth at our flaws even in our supposed triumphs and whisper with teary eyes, "Behold; humanity"
It's probably one of my favorite retellings of Lawrence of Arabia.
Lynch disavowed it because he didn't get final cut. The implication that Lynch would disavow something because it was weird, bizarre, or quirky ......I can't even find even find the words.
I hope you read God Emperor. I love all the Frank Herbert books, God Emperor being my favorite.
I am glad you talked about how the similarities of Dune and Star Wars are superficial at most.
That's important to say. The first 'half' of the film is reasonably coherent, the acting generally good. I actually like some aspects better than the recent film, in particular how Yueh's betrayal is handled. But then the last part is horribly rushed, compacting into 30 minutes what Lynch probably would have spent an hour to an hour an a half on. Consequently nothing seems earned, Jessica disappears from the story, Chani and Paul's relationship is crazily fast-forwarded, and its not clear how he becomes this leader that millions are prepared to follow.
Then we have a climatic battle, ironically wasting time as each character takes a potshot at the enemy. Lynch must have been furious, hence his complete disavowal. But the weird aspects were always going to be a feature with him as the director. I don't think they are necessarily detrimental. There is a serious narrative going on, amidst the campy weirdness/fun, as often happens in Lynch films (Blue Velvet, for example).
Dune is still a cult movie for many, (including me) and it could've been a so much better one.
The 4K Spicediver edit of Dune 1984 got nuked from YT for copyright infringement recently. It was a sad day for me.
Wow, what a great video! You managed to explain these complex intertwined stories in an hour, and it was exciting all the way. Respect! 🙏
The Bene Gesserit are working on a very long-term project to breed a messiah, a man with immense powers, that *they* will control.
"Erm, just how *will* we control such a powerful being?"
"We're working on it. I'm sure we'll have that detail worked out by the time the project succeeds."
Paul was unable to escape the fate he saw ahead of him, despite seeing a slight chance of a way out. Circumstance and betrayal put him beyond beyond their reach, not anything of his own doing. Had he been born under their control, he'd probably have stayed there just as surely as he was unable to escape the fate that claimed him.
How did they control anyone? Grooming!
@@chrisrubin6445
She talked about designing religions. I'd call that grooming times a trillion. They also had other ways to control people.
Then along comes God Emperor of Dune: “That whole kwisatz haderach thing set in motion a series of events that could cause the extinction of humanity. Woopsie doodle!”
@@craigvdodge
I'd call that a spoiler since she didn't talk about that book.
When I read Lord of the rings I am awestruck by the beauty of language.
When I read A song of ice and fire I get obsessed with every detail of the story.
When I read Dune it makes me think deeply about nature, reality, and religion.
I understand the issues with the 84 and 00 Dune adaptations, but I like them both. They were the only adaptations I had for over half of my life, as I found Dune in 1999 and loved its treatment of politicians, messianic figures, and cults of personality.
The 2000 miniseries is still the most book accurate 😅 I feel like it accomplished more in 4.5 hours than Denis did with 5+
Thank you for your delightful thoughts on Dune. I first read this in my 20's and now 30 years later after many re-reads, it pulls me into it's universe and pulls me out of myself with it's lore, mysticism and wisdom. What I find fascinating with the books that the recent movies appear to lack, however, is the inner-dialog the characters have as they face challenges. In the text we are witness to their fears and desires, their attempts to find balance or control while the universe puts great pressures and surprises up on them. I must note, is that as I remember, upon Paul's acceptance into the Sietch Tabr, it is he who asks about the figure in the moon (which appeared in his waking dream) and names himself for it - Muad'Dib. The tribe is awed by his identity as this symbol of the desert mouse that is the teacher for the young in the ways of survival in the desert. The tribe, in turn give him their private name of Usul - the base of the pillar. I've yet to see the second of Villeneuve's Dune films but from the first I felt that Chani's initial appearance was rather muted and lacked the depiction of the warrior and protector that she is for her sietch.
Dune fans are like LOTR Fans, not cringe, well-mannered, and also peaceful I love it, I hope it's not becoming toxic over time like Star Wars and MCU fans
Check out the comments in the Ring of Power trailers and come back
@@Peecamarkethat series deserves it
Ask LOTR book fans what they think about the LOTR movies and you won't think they're so peaceful.
There's not a single fandom that has NOT toxic elements once the community gets to a certain size, since the higher the number, the more likely it is for toxic people to appear, and it isn't long before that likelihood reaches 100%. If you think "Dune" and LotR don't have toxicity, you either have been to very small, isolated groups inside the overall community, or you weren't paying attention.
@@XanderVJ Well thank god i'm not part of them, i bet their daily life crippling with depression amirite?
This was a fantastic overview that went into just the right amount of detail to make a Dune superfan like me enjoy it, but also cover a lot of what a new fan might need to know. Well done!
Dear Lady Jessica in a chair. I've been looking forward to you doing a video about Dune ever since I noticed the book sitting on your shelf. And you rocked it! I'm on board for wherever you take this channel next. Hoping you had a great time watching Dune 2.
Dune part 1 and Dune part 2
How great of movie titles...
I'd consider star wars (1977, just the first movie) is a reconstruction of Dune. It took influences from Dune and used some of those to go back to a pre Dune style of Sci fi
It's more a reconstruction of Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" tbh.
@@KnjazNazrathjust the plot. The lore, setting, characters and themes are HEAVILY borrowed from Dune.
Star Wars is Dune reworked for 1970s teens and lower brow audiences. Howard the Duck is George Lucas unchained lol
What amazes me now is how bad SW would/could have been...as Alec Guiness famously wrote in a letter. Lucas' wife took ALL that footage, and used the same myth rules that Dune/Kurosawa used, and turned it into the epic that ep IV was...and Phantom Menace wasn't. I see much more Dune dry politics and messianic imagery in Phantom, but point well made about Luke as "desert boy whose parents weren't who he thought has unknown powers takes on emperor in space".
OMG...the Butlerian Jihad and the Star Wars anti-droid laws are just flat obvious theft. Argument withdrawn.
_Dune_ 1984 has a young Sir Patrick Stewart, and that alone make it worth watching.
There is nothing he has been in that hasn't been improved by his being in it.
@@PeteOtton Exactly!
I love how young Patrick Stewart looks exactly the same as X Men era Patrick Stewart
@@NTWoo95 Well, that's because Patrick Stewart was 44 years old in 1984. Not an old man, sure. But not a young man either.
Both Patrick Stewart and Sian Phillips (Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam) appear briefly in John La Carre's 1982 spy thriller miniseries, Smiley's People.
As someone who has gone through the Main books 5 times, Dune Messiah is such a fantastic novel. The short timeframe and the political conniving makes it really unique.
I first read Dune when I was about 11 ish. The next summer, Star Wars came out. And I immediately knew Tatooine was Dune and Luke was sort of Paul. lol. I fell in love with both sagas instantly and now that I'm nearing '60, Paul is still my favorite character ever. I've read Dune at least a dozen times, and the rest of the series nearly as often.
I only listened to Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon while reading Dune, now when I hear the music I close my eyes and I can smell the Spice! Has the same effect when I see the sand dunes in Saint Anthony's and play the Dark Side. I also yell out I have ridden the mighty moon worm!, or There can be only one!, depending on my mood.
Alas I have less poetic associations with Pink Floyd's masterpiece. Instead I see Dorothy falling off a fence in Kansas. Have you watched the Dark Side of the Rainbow. Start "The Wizard of Oz" movie and stop at the third MGM lion roar. Then play it using "Dark Side of the Moon" as the soundtrack for really bizarre experience. Not saying that you won't still smell the spice but you will do it while watching the Scarecrow dance.
Ur so original
Oh please... Listen to some actual good prog rock like Close to the Edge by Yes and have ur virgin mine blown
Who tf listens to music with lyrics when reading
I did something similar reading the Amber books while listening to Road to Utopia by Todd Rungren
OK this is the review that's getting me to finally want to read the Dune books. They sound decades ahead of their time, maybe centuries.
I came to your channel for LOTR content but, I really enjoy how you venture into covering different scifi/ fantasy works as well as some of the philosophies behind and pertaining to them. It's expanding my own interest pools as a whole. Also, your content is very cozy. Loved the vid!
I'm so glad you're enjoying my branching-out! It's an absolute joy
Your video has got to be one of the best commentaries and reviews of Dune that I have experienced.
We saw Dune part one a little over a year ago, and I have watched it multiple times while preparing myself for part two.
We just saw part two yesterday, and I had to sit for a bit as the credits rolled to calm my mind and my emotions, as it was on the verge of bursting out in tears.
It was amazing.
My first experience was with Dune Messiah [a gift from a friend] in 1970. All the way through it I had so many questions. A few months later I got my hands on Dune. I devoured it in 3 days - so intense!! I digested it for a month then reread both slowly …then it all made sense to me. I later developed questions about the Butlerian Jihad and other aspects. I was hooked. I had to know more!!
Thanks for the video. Very well done and well researched! I enjoy your presentation.
I love the way you emphasized on "massive" at 6:25. You really get into what you love. It's great to watch someone feel that way. Great video. I mean seriously this channel is off the chart.
I was wondering when you'd do Dune! What better day than today? Yay!
I knew I'd have to put it out today haha
I don't think it's any mystery why Tolkien didn't like Dune. It spat in the face of religion as truth (instead using it as a tool of manipulation and control), it told one to beware of heroes and charismatic leaders, and it steered away from any real idea of heroism and good or evil. All of this was in direct opposition to Tolkien's world views and his literary works.
Growing up at the heart of dune itself in the state of Oregon I’ve been reading the book series since I was 12. Being 26 now and seeing it this mainstream is just surreal for me. The fact I bought an official movie theater shirt and took home an IMAX mini poster still feels like a dream…I have yet to visit Florence and hope to visit someday for paying respects.
As someone who never read the books growing up and managed to not see any of the movies until I heard about the actual themes of the story from someone else (and then went on to finally read the first book): I entirely agree that this work might be more relevant now than ever before! Thanks for making this great summary!
Thank you, Jess of the Bene Gesserit, for another delightful video. My love of "Dune" is similar to my love of two other fantasy worlds. JRR Tolkien's Middle Earth and Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series. These three works stand alone at the top of their genre because of the completeness of their worlds. The level of detail in the background of these settings is astounding. You can read them multiple times while peeling back different layers of myth politics, religion, addiction, relations between the genders, ecology, and I could just keep going on. These three series are alive in a way that other books in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre only hope to achieve.
I just watched S.01 and 02 of The Wheel of Time. Moraine and the Aes Sedai hooked me.
I'm kind of troubled by how much will it remain in the spirit of the books, though I haven read them - but of course more deviation will likely mean less quality.
The concept of what is the wheel of time, their understanding of the world, seems off. That's a downside for me so far. I don't know if it will become more logical. Disclaimer. I do not believe in reincarnation but I have no problem with it in stories if it can fit and not just seem a wacky concept that won't hold water.
I am excited, and worried, as I learn more of the story, will it further evolve and keep, or increase, quality, I.e. be with those other 2 that you mentioned, or will it become lesser.
I don't see it yet worthy of being spoken of in the same sentence with LoTR, or even Dune.
So, you're saying I should have hope...
First, the tv show is alright but as with 99% of books the book is by far the better medium. The level of politics, social organization, past history, religion, gender roles, magic system places the level of depth on par with Tolkien and Herbert. I don't say that lightly. I have somewhere around 4,000 books under my belt. Many of those are fantasy/sci-fi and I would be hard pressed to find another author besides Jordan who can compete with the other two legends. For instance, Terry Brook's Shanara is a wonderful read but the world does not feel as real as the above three. I'm not putting Brooks down (I treasure my autographed copies of Shanara) but his level of complexities doesn't approach the above authors. Harry Turtledove comes close, but he is working with alternate history which gives him some advantages. My placing Jordan on this high level is my opinion and not necessarily supported by a larger community.
Now to address the wheel mechanism presented By Jordan. Yes, reincarnation does play a role and indeed one of the most intriguing methods of utilizing it that I have seen in fiction. By the way, reincarnation also plays a role in Dune and to lesser degree LOTR (the elves who have dies will eventually return to the world). But the wheel mechanism in Wheel of Time encapsulates more than just reincarnation. What has happened will repeat in some far distant time. When scientist debate the infinity of the universe/multiverse this concept arises in their scientific writings. If time is infinite eventually everything will repeat. "Eternal return (or eternal recurrence) is a philosophical concept of predeterminism which hypothesizes that all events in the world repeat themselves in the same sequence through an eternal series of cycles." "Fairly Recent advances in High Energy and Quantum Physics have also proposed cosmological models in which the universe undergoes an endless sequence of cosmic epochs each beginning with a bang and ending in a crunch." from Wikipedia "Eternal Return" article.@Jadeite12
Thanks for your inputs. My problem with the wheel of time mechanism, as seen in the show, is how some view it as having a will, or having the concept of good and bad, when as in the show it just seems impartial, soulless so to say. So if Aes Saedai are such fans of the wheel, why serve? The wheel wants nothing, expects nothing, it just spins - I do think Moraine said something along those lines, but generally, normal folk seem to view the wheel as tied to something with will. It's not like LoTR where everything does seem as a reproduction of the Christian view of the world, well, as least as I, and apparently Tolkien, see what the Bible teaches as a whole view of the world. @@childlessdoggentleman746
One more question please, a spoiler that I do want to find out. Does Tar Valon ever get destroyed/breached? Thank you. @@childlessdoggentleman746
WOT is a blatant rip off of the other 2- with much worse writing and a corporal punishment fetish. Not to mention the ENDLESSNESS of it and the bad effect it had/has on GRRM...
I just find it kinda hilarious that Bene Gesserit is like "We've been trying to create this dangerous and powerful being for centuries... Why is he so powerful and dangerous??" If it ain't the consequences of your own actions 😭
I think it’s kinda because he wasn’t born when/how they wanted him to be and also they don’t have primary control over him. It didn’t go the way they wanted so they’re upset at how it’s going.
"Ther are no computers in the Dune universe!"
Ix: o_o
Many machines on Ix.
"It's not a computer, its uh, a """Navigation Calculator""", you guys"- All of Ix
Yep, watch it, even if you just like brilliant james mcavoy , who would made such a good god emporer.
Te cast is great as well, and it focuses on the dialogue pretty organic , and mcavoy so good. alias madness is great as well and its great.
If only they made the god emporer mcavoi had the chops to really do well.
@@marocat4749agreed. It's really quite good
@@marocat4749The thought of McAvoy's face on a giant worm body 🤣🤣🤣
Just found out about your channel and i wanted to say two things:
1) loved the video , your storytelling ability is amazing and you got me glued to my phone for almost an hour. I really look forward to seeing more of your videos
2) you have the kindest eyes i've ever seen
GOD I LOVE your videos SO MUCH. You have made me fall in love with Tolkien all over again, and made me want to actually return to reading the Lord of the Rings books. And after absolutely no exposure to Dune, save for seeing the movie two weeks ago, you've made me absolutely fall in love with Dune as well (and made me want to read the books). I am just overjoyed that you make your videos, and that I get to see them.
Happy two-year anniversary, and a hobbity near-100k subs!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! Making videos like this one always makes me re-fall in love with these stories, so I'm glad to hear it had that effect on you! I hope you enjoy the books if you get to them.
Dune (and LOTR) has always been in the background of my life. My dad is a big nerd and read the books to me and my siblings when we where kids.
But my favorite memory is my dad quoting the Little Death to me when I was older. I had just dropped out of college, going through panic attacks daily and massive deep depression. I just remember screaming at him that I was a failure and that I was better off dead and that was when he said the prayer. It just stuck. It made things a little easier.
I highly doubt that my dad remembers that moment, but going to see Dune and Dune II with him just reminds me of that day and how much he loves me.
The Spice must flow!
As I said on Insta it’s been about 15 years since I last read the series, you now have me wanting to go back to them and I will once I’ve finished wth my reread of The Malazan Book of the Fallen.
One of my favourite parts of the books was the comments from Princess Irulan. It gives the unfolding story more scale in both space and time, particularly during subsequent reads once you know her relationship to Paul.
Note: appreciate today’s palette.
I'm so glad I inspired a re-read! These books really only get better on second, third, or fourth reads.
Makeup’s on POINT, girl! Love the teaside dune chat!!!
Great video and happy Channel anniversary! I've used "Dune" in college classes a bunch of times, and there are so many different dimensions to the book. I always pair it with Machiavelli's "Prince", to highlight the political and diplomatic aspects of the story. I would be interested in hearing your take on Asimov's Foundation novels, and the greater Robot-Empire-Foundation universe.
Supah choices!
You get the best summary of Dune I've seen on TH-cam. Enjoyable, true to the story and dynamic. Just looking forward for more of your content.
What a wonderful video Jess.
I'm not a huge Dune guy but you make it seem super appealing. Maybe I need to give it another chance.
Same here. The water recycling was off-putting for me. I didn't finish the first book.
My brother has been telling me about Dune for years, I’ve just never found the time to sit down and read it. I think now after having seen the movies I will have to remedy that situation.
One thing that many people who look into Herbert's inspiration for *Dune* in the sand dunes of Florence Oregon miss, is that the dune stabilization project turned out to be an ecological disaster. The plantings caused _huge_ damage to the local environment, not only through the introduction of invasive vegetation like European beachgrass, but also the stabilization of the dunes themselves caused damage to various other natural systems that depended on them.
This actually does come into the later books, where the Fremen's ecological project nearly destroys the sandworms, which would destroy the spice and end galactic civilization as it existed at that point in the story. In the real world, there is an ongoing project in Oregon to remove the plantings and restore the dunes to their natural, pre-stabilization condition.
I started with the PC games before I ever read the books and I havent seen the movies. The books were amazing and the PC games were incredible. Love the new content Jess! Your hair is on point btw!
I've really grown to love the Dune lore. The movies definitely helped but now that I've been reading the books I'm alittle disappointed how much the movie leaves out. Children of Dune is sooo weird but also awesome. I can see how much it influenced other sci-fi and fantasy books/movies. Definitely a real gem 👌🙌
I can’t tell if I like this channel so much because of how beautiful Jess is, her lovely voice, because everything is so well thought out and structured logically…
Probably a combination of all of them 😂🤷♂️
Feel better now?
I think she is very beautifull, but honestly that has nothing to do with why I like her channel. I like her channel.because she is increadibly dedicated to making in depth analysis of LotR and Dune. She is so intelligent and well spoken there's no channel as good as hers covering tolkien except for maybe NerdoftheRings, but her work is different it's more passionate.
@@grosbeak6130 well, engagement boosts the video in the algorithm. So yes, I do 🥳😂
@@dementiasorrow yeah, 100%. I subbed to her channel after watching her review the Amazon LOTR documentary, and she got all fired up about them saying Frodo failed in his quest.
I just think she looks very nice in this video, so I was feigning confusion. But yeah, I definitely come back for her ideas, and other stuff is just a nice bonus 😂
Maybe just don't comment on a woman's appearance.
"Would bang" doesn't sound any better just because you wrote it politely.
54:48 Not gonna lie... this part made me tear up. I love your sharing about your family (esp about your Mom & Dad)... Thank you!
Jess of Arrakis!
Or, more obviously - The Lady Jessica
Thank you for this. You definitely worked hard on it and it shows. I just saw the 2nd movie tonight in IMAX and really enjoyed it. I can't wait for more videos, you're an incredible storyteller!
Have you read the National Lampoon's version of DUNE titled "DOON"?
The spice is replaced by beer and the sand worms are giant pretzels.
Incredibly stupidly funny. I recommend.
YES - I have an original copy somewhere. May have to buy another.
Thank you so much for this.
You are an INCREDIBLY captivating storyteller. I’ve never been so glued to a fucking TH-cam video the way I am when I see one of your long form video essays.
Jess, not only are you an incredible storyteller and presenter with much knowledge and understanding of these fictional universes, but also a gorgeous woman!
Love your excellently-written and thoughtful summary. It was a long video that deserved to be a long video because of its depth of analysis.
It was surprising and refreshing to hear someone else say that the Dune sequels weren't good books. I read the first two sequels and hated them so completely that I can contrast my reaction to them by checking my memory of each of them. I can remember scenes, ideas, and even phrases in Dune practically verbatim; while I have forgotten the two books that followed so completely that I might as well have never read them.
I consider this a blessing.
One thing that fascinates me about dune and the writing of Dune is the German notion that "every educated man has one novel in him." Dune seems to bear this out perfectly. In writing Dune, Herbert wove together characters and ideas with a deftness that he never had before (Whipping Star trundles through my nightmares), and that he never did again.
One special power of your video is one that I am sure that the average geek will *not* appreciate: how well you point out the complexity of ideas and character interaction that is so lacking in the movies-even to the extent of leaving Thufir Hawatt on the cutting room floor in the second movie and replacing him with "harpies" to really drive home the notion that Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen is not a nice person.
Oh, and then there's the terrific pretension of the black-and-white world of Giedi Prime's sun's largely infrared output. I really want someone to prove to me anything on Giedi Prime would be visible at all!
Thanks for the video. Definitely subscribing.
If you love Children of Dune, you really must read God Emperor. It's the true ending to the Atreides saga.
I mean literally yes, but Leto is not really an Atriedes at that point.
@@ethancoster1324Is Paul?
@@ethancoster1324 Of course he is an Atriedes.......... He's ALL of them..........
hey thank you for telling the wonderful story of Dune, the first half would really help those struggling to understand what the book is all about, I have read it twice, must admit keep quitting with Messiah, but after what you said I will finish it and go on to Children. Thanks again for your lovely story telling.
Looking really SPICY on that dress.
Awesome video! Lots of information I didn't know about Herbert and the real world history of Dune. I would love to hear you talk more about Children of Dune. I finished it recently and haven't really put my thoughts on it together yet
Nice video, Keep them coming!
btw
I love the blue eyeliner node to the eyes of Ibad.
An old drinking buddy used to say that Frank had taken these stories from time he spent in Afghanistan and desert tribes. The Spice was something to do with the poppy & heroine. It made sense when he told me in the pub, but it doesn't look like he'd ever been there.
Great vid. My favorite sci-fi is the kind that is so alien that it becomes difficult to follow because its just so foreign to what we are familiar with. I really hope the rumors Denis Villeneuve is doing rendezvous with Rama are true!!!
It was genuinely nice to listen to someone who understands Frank Herbert's Dune so well. Thank you.
I love to come back and watch this video every couple of months. Really top notch video.
Love the orange eye shadow? Matching your outfit. 10/10
Love your work Jess, and your clear and accessible presentation. I wonder? Have you done anything with Nerd Cookies or Quinn’s Ideas?
If not, I hope you one day will.
0:23 I think "psychological fortification" is a much more accurate term for the litany. The sisterhood aren't religious; they seed and direct the narrative of religions for their end goal.
Finally a GREAT adaption, ROP should have taken notes.
I clicked on this video because your hair looks so so cute. I need more information on this hairstyle. At the very least, a pic of the back. So pretty!
My favorite scene in all the books is in the first one with Duke Leto’s board meeting.
Here you have what we think is a Ned Stark like stoic honorable character talking about producing propaganda about aiding the fremen much more than…actually aiding the fremen. Showing the audience he maybe a better ruler than the Harkonnens…still not a “good character”
And then there’s Paul in the room. 14 year old kid future genocidal religious warlord in about three years bored out of his mind at all the politics and just blurts out “but what about the worms?”
That scene is such a good look at who these people are that will shape this series.
I just found this channel and I've really been enjoying the videos. Inspired me to take some time out of today and do some writing which is always fun!!!
Bless the Algorithm and His recommendations. Been on a Dune kick, and your video was suggested. Easy subscribe. Love how approachable you make the source material.
I was first introduced to Dune through a childhood friend whose father (who’d sadly passed away before we met) gave his old hardcover copies of the Dune series to my friend. He told me it inspired Star Wars and that blew my 10 year old mind. I’d pretty much forgotten about it until the film adaptation was announced and I dove head first into the series while transferring from community college to a state university. All that change, moving away from home for the first time and all of the responsibilities that come along with college courses, made the “Litany Against Fear” especially poignant.
In the two years since then, I’ve read the first Dune novel aloud to my partner (a kind of human audiobook rather than relying on pesky technology) and gave them an annotated copy as a gift. Because of this, we’re now both big fans of the story and are going to see Dune: Part Two tomorrow and neither of us can wait!!!
P.S. Incredible video Jess! I’ve been working at a bookstore and the first time I saw “The Spice Must Flow” book on the truck shipment I knew I needed it, and this video only reinforced that idea. 57:25
I've been to the dunes in Florence (went to high school and college in Oregon), and they're incredible. My first visit there was in 1983, when my mom and I drove from Denver to Bandon to visit a high school friend of hers. I was only 10 years old at the time, and I had not read Dune yet (that was 4 years later). My mom and I were walking on the dunes in the early evening, under a clear sky and watching a beautiful sunset, when she said, "STOP! Walk without rhythm and we won’t attract the worm. It will go to the thumper." I was like, "Uh, what's a 'thumper'?" She quickly explained, and so I followed her direction. What an amazing place.
Damn, that's a story.
A LoTR fan running a repair manual publisher as a pivotal launch-pad in it's popularity.
And I also love how Dune impacted a lot of pop-culture after the fact.
One of my favorite 'Golden Path' consequences as a gamer is how we wouldn't have Arcane (the League of Legends animated series) without Dune.
In the early 90's Westwood studios got the rights to the Lynch movies, and their Dune game is the founder of the whole RTS genre.
Imagine, there would be no Age of Empires without Dune, and Westwood's legendary Command & Conquer series is basically a riff on Dune with it's own charismatic and dangerous messiah, Kane, and central resource Tiberium.
Anyway, butterfly effect goes like this:
1, Herbert's book
2, Lynch's movie
3, Westwood's game kickstarting RTS
4, Warcraft (3)
5, DOTA
6, LOL
7, Arcane
I love Frank’s books. Read and reread them for years. Picked up something new every time.
Brian just can’t measure up. It’s not even close.
Your comment about the origin of your name struck a chord with me. My own father loved Dune and claimed it was due to this that my sister was named Jessica and my middle name is Paul. My mom denies this, so I even have the conflicting family stories. Pretty funny. Love your channel; great synopsis of Dune.
Really great video! The thumbnail with the blue eyes was awesome!
I saw part two last weekend and thought it was fantastic. Really hoping for more from this director in the future.
The film has a distinct European arthouse aesthetic quite unlike anything conventional cinema has to offer. It's a world full of fantastic dream-like imagery that nonetheless feels very real and wholly immersive. Unforgettable characters and an ambient and nuanced film score contribute to its at times operatic intensity and surreal atmosphere, validating David Lynch as just the man to helm a project of such massive potential and accompanying expectations, and it looks and sounds absolutely glorious in 4K.
I always love the outfits you put together for the theme of your video! This one's amazing :D
You speak in such an engaging way, I am shocked. I want to see pretension in it, but I only see passion. Very well done Jess, God bless you.
U watch dune and u see houses and empires. U see how this novel influenced GOT and star wars and all types of Sci fi