You mean you DON'T like all the *"OMG X CHARACTER IS TRASH DON'T PULL FOR THEM!" "99999999 DAMAGE CHARACTER GUIDE: ARTIFACTS/WEAPONS/TEAM COMPS" "THIS CHARACTER IS BROKEN!!!"* videos? I thought everyone loves them! 😂
@@VarsII obviously thats why everyone makes the same style videos my guy you just gotta get with the program 💯 👌 no but seriously please don't I literally watch you because you put real effort and thought into your videos. You get everyone in the community to really think about the topics at hand and I love that about you keep up the hard work we support you ❤
@@VarsII Me: "Oh, I have venti, I'll just skip Kazuha. Oh, I have enough cryo 4 stars, why bother pulling for Ayaka? I have C2 Diluc since he keeps stealing my banner 5 stars, who needs Hu Tao?" Mistakes were made. XD That being said, no regrets skipping Youmiya and Klee, only partial regrets skipping Kokomi.
@@VarsII Finaly someone said this out loud. :D I am so tired of those kind of videos being all over YT. Never change man, I love your content. It is chill but a lot of ideas and brain food at the same time.
I'm of the opinion that all electro reactions shouldn't have a cooldown at all, if they don't increase the damage then they should at least embrace the "lightning = THE FAST" and make it so you can spam these low dmgs constantelly. Of course this would probably only help electro charged since overcharged would keep pushing enemies away and superconduct would just reset the debuff timer if it wasn't reworked
I think the cooldown comes from technical limitations. The game seems to request damage values from the server, so they need to still be playable with crappy mobile connection.
While I agree, I think constant Overloads would be laggy af haha. I think instead that Overloaded should reduce the enemy's resistance to stagger. This gives it utility because you can now stagger previously unstaggerable enemies (albeit not necessarily easily if it's a boss) and it has synergy with Electro-Charged by increasing its stagger effect. Overloaded and Electro-Charged already work together since Electro-Charged doesn't use up a lot of the Electro Elemental Gauge on opponents, but this just improves it further. Overloaded can also then work better with Anemo units who focus on move enemies around without having to Freeze them. As for Superconduct, I'd probably just make it deal a bit more damage, since it already does its job really well from a utility standpoint.
@@jmell458 They would only need to rework Overload for it to work. Allow it to work like a time bomb, where you gather overload stacks and the resulting damage is the result of the overload damage values being multiplied by the number of overload stacks you managed to deliver before the reaction goes off. This would immediately fix all problems with overload.
@@bloody4558 That sounds cool. So basically you could apply Pyro to a bunch of enemies, then Electro, and then they'd all explode at once? That actually does sound pretty good, because it gives Overloaded quadratic scaling which means it can be better than Melt/Vape when there are more enemies. It would probably have a different type of cool down, though, so you could trigger it multiple times in a short window, and then have to wait. I still think it should reduce the enemies' resistance to stagger to allow them to be more easily grouped (for your suggestion) and improve synergy with Electro-Charged as well.
To be fair, the only truly (and consistently) good reactions are those that provide every-hit buffs to damage, with the reaction damage being a red herring that makes people consider melt and vape the strongest reactions while swirl is the strongest by far, and only superconduct and freeze are even notable otherwise. That makes anemo and cryo the best reaction elements, and hydro and electro important ones (so electro doesn't really need reaction buffs). Pyro doesn't even place despite conventional wisdom stating that it's the best reaction element (something I used to believe and even espouse as well, though largely because I've mostly been a geo supremacist and didn't even have a good idea of how crippling ICD was until I started running the Abyss with a non-geo team on one side). Pyro, like Geo, is strong because pyro and geo characters tend to be stronger than characters of other elements. Sadly electro lacks that kind of baked-in buff, with only two particularly good electros after turbo Fischl was nerfed (Beidou and Raiden, who notoriously dOn'T wOrK tOgEtHeR). The other 5 are actually pretty well-balanced characters (for example Sara is exceptional for buffing snapshotting characters, despite her C6 not snapshotting lmfao, but sucks for anything else; if she had more uptime she would be another broken-ass Bennett, though), except their element holds them back the way geo and pyro would if those characters weren't inherently stronger than other characters AND they didn't have really good resonances (no-strings-attached atk bonus for pyro and the largest resonance-derived real damage bonus for geo). Meanwhile it's hard to even find a bad pyro (Xinyan btw) or geo (I honestly don't think there is one; even Geo MC is extremely good, and possibly the most underrated character since people have generally changed their mind on other underrated characters, and as of this patch geo even has a support (Yun Jin) decidedly on-par with the best pyro support (Bennett), making it one of the three elements (along with Anemo's Kazuha) that has a support in the top-of-top tier). (Also I LOVE Xinyan's design and concept, but she's both weak and boring to play, a killer combination. No wonder she's consistently one of the least-used characters, sad as it is.)
You have no any idea how hard it is for me to speak with a friend about this exact topic. Like literally whenever any geo character does any form of high damage his immediate reaction is "well I could easily double or even triple it using a melt or vaporize reaction and my Hu tao". Keep up the amazing work and yea basically I love playing Geo and he only plays reaction comps and refuses to accept geo as damaging element due to its inability to combo with other elements.
@@artmoonsilva it's infuriating but yes... the sheer amount of times Geo is getting nerfed is causing me to become really annoyed with them. Like high hp, then shields ontop of the whole most can't even create constructs on any bosses or environments.
Wait until Dendro makes “Fertilize”!reaction where it absorbs all nearby Crystal shards and deal damage base on the total Hp of the Crystal Shards combine when the Dendro guage is depleted. Cause Dendro seems to be the opposite of Anemo and Geo, which it can only be an Aura element and can’t be a trigger.
As far as I know, the reason why hutao is far better (talking meta) than klee, is not because she can vape one ult, is because she can vape EVERY CA she does. Her charged attacks have no internal cooldown. The same reason why xianling's pyronado is so op is because it has no internal cooldown (there are much more examples). Sure, vaping hutao's burst is nice, but being able to vaporize every CA (arguably the best part of her kit) is what skyrockets her dps. Also, every attack (thinking NA, CA, PA, burst, skill and special dash) has it's own internal cooldown, that counts independantly. That's why if you are fighting an electro abyss lector with sucrose, it's better to thow everything, intead of just spamming normal attack. On another note, eula's damage does not xome from shatter. Shatter is a reaction that scales the same as overload. It's not multiplicative (thus not being able to reach 2M damage on it's own). Her damage comes exclusively from phys dmg alone (boosted by superconduct's phys shred). It's her sole burt that does 2M if properly built. You might read this and think I'm flaming you, but please don't take it that way. I love your work, and your theorycrafting is something I think the Genshin Community needs. I just want to correct what I believe is incorrect information, as I think you would appreciate it. Keep it up, much love.
Was going to comment about this exact bit of info, but you've done so already so I'll leave a thumbs up and hope others come across this. I enjoy Vars' content but I've noticed little tidbits like this sometimes get over generalized or misconstrued. I don't believe he's intentionally leaving out info or trying to misconstrue things since he's generally pretty accurate despite the sheer volume of research/TC that goes into this game lol.
Yea ngl he doesn’t get Eula as a character. He seemed to beleive she’s an elemental reaction character when in reality she’s possibly the only character to actually escape the element prison.
Whoever came up with the idea of having elemental reaction based combat in this game is a genius. Its definitely the best selling point of genshin, hopefully dendro brings a lot more versalite reaction in game when its released.
Too bad outside of vape and melt nobody uses it (outside of one kokomi team) leading to the game being build crit and nothing else. Can you imagine a genshin were depending what we want we can play elemental mastery with attack or crit rate with crit dmg.
That's... not true at all. If you run a pyro or cryo DPS, you'll probably use melt or vape a lot, they have the highest damage ceilings, but they're far from the only good reactions. And it's not like you're forced to run cryo/pyro main dps to clear all content, people already play how they want. For example, Swirl is a really good reaction for spreading elements and breaking shields Superconduct is really good for physical DPS carries like Eula Electro-charged is used by most Electro main DPS Freeze is one of the best reactions and is the reason characters like Ayaka (also to an extent Ganyu, but she's also amazing with melt) are rated so highly. I don't know why you act like mihoyo's forcing you to use vape/melt, but most of the reactions are good and you can still 36-star abyss without using those two specific reactions.
I think a big issue is the fact that the gacha needs to account for the fact that not everyone is going to get the same characters, even with banners giving you increased odds. There's so much overlap with roles, weapons, and elements that the game sometimes needs to have characters that functionally do the same thing with a different element. Even then, the S tier characters are going to trounce the others in terms of effectiveness once you DO get them. It's not a dealbreaker for sure, since anyone in this game can be good, but it's still frustrating to see it like this when electro is absolutely fiending for some buffs and characters that are good BECAUSE they're electro, not in spite of it.
This is starting to hurt more than a lot of other things. More and more enemy design seems to be be based around *reacting* to the whatever "endgame meta" is going on. Bennett teams nuking? Generic enemies now have six-digit HP. Dongli invalidating entire boss patterns? True DoT that ignores shields. It screws over new players and largely only bandaids existing content. Like how Albedo's psuedo-buff via weapon and *massive* lore dump was a limited event. Anyone who started playing shortly after the event's release is permanently screwed and has to go wiki diving to get his lore. Genshin's current design is very short-sighted and reactionationary.
I mean at least one character is released each patch so it's actually VITAL that they release characters who do the same thing with another element, to keep adding meaningfully new content to the game while postponing power creep as long as possible. Every time they add a significant new niche they're potentially delaying powercreep for 5-6 more patches (we'll get dendro eventually, so 6) with the future alt-element clones of the character.
@@veraducks Important lore being event-locked is infuriating. The only story event I missed was Mona and Fischl's, and I found out about it and was able to watch it on youtube, but it's information that you absolutely should not be able to miss if you care about the game's story or lore whatsoever. The fact that I might not have known about it if I hadn't been surprised to see there was a free Barbara and Xiangling, and looked up the full list of free characters (to get mad that free Fischl was also limited-time and I missed it) is upsetting, and knowing that there are players that don't even know they're missing important lore from multiple Albedo events and Fischl's event is pretty sad (granted Albedo's first event didn't add much beyond the permanent Dragonspine quest). Plus IIRC half of Xiao's entire character story was 2021 Lantern Rite limited content that follows on directly from the end of his permanent quest, and adds a substantial amount to his story.
@@vitriolicAmaranth not just lord but actually fun dungeons should be LTM also. The worst thing Mihoyo could have done (imo) is do events because they want to keep the file size for mobile players. I’m sorry but I couldn’t care less about mobile players and there’s just no way that most of them ONLY game on mobile, like I’m sure they have a console or pc to play on. I don’t remember the requirements for pc but if it’s mobile friendly then I’m assuming you can run genshin on any rig
For those of you wondering what happened to it last week, the video was uploaded at 20 fps (and also had a few janks in it) so we had to patch that and put it back up :P
Note, there already is a way to combine three elements. Actually I can think of two ways. First is overvape, where you hit an electrocharged enemy with a pyro attack. You can trigger both a vape and an overload. Second is triggering further reactions with swirl. If you swirl pyro from one enemy onto another with hydro, your _swirl itself_ will get buffed by the vaporize damage. This also works with melt and other reactions. Your swirl can trigger an overload.
Swirl is the staple multi-elemental reaction. But I found myself using Freeze Shock team which enables 3 elemental Reaction in a single moment satisfying. Using Freeze, Super Conduct and Electrocharge really help me during my over world grinding.
Another one similar to overvape is electrofreeze where you can freeze electroshocked enemies because electroshock technically keeps applying hydro and electro. What's also fun is then immediately shattering the enemy to apply all three elements all over again. I've noticed this a lot while playing some razor comps and it's really quite fun
"What you think about the system" - To be fair, I kinda wish that the Reactions system was more of a Synergy thing based on an element's core identity. Both Cryo and Pyro are known for damage of some variety, so it would make sense for their reaction to lower defences (which it does) but to counter that, Geo, almost exclusively makes "Shield good against the element used" It'd be nice if Pyro Crystal increased your attack while up, or Hydro Crystal would heal you over time, or electro would give you energy when the shield is damaged. Basically taking each element's core themes unique to the whole element, and synergizing them into effects that benefit both sides by nature of their design. And I don't think most reactions do this well. Similarly, as you proved, I'd really love to see that tick rate get lowered, er... increased? Make it synergize with speed better.
I love my mono geo teams but damn this is an amazing idea to buff geo, tho you could just give zhongli that spear that drops an icicle on enemies to give free ice shields to those teams.
Only one problem with this, for me: how would this work if multiple shards are present? Do you just get all the effects from the Pyro, Cryo, Hydro, and Electro shards? That feels a bit much, in my eyes.
I like that they are slowly adding other methods to do big damage like with the Ocean-Hued Clam. Would be interesting to see them add other artifact sets that benefit different playstyles (i.e. kequing's multi hit burst with something that works like the Metronome item in Pokemon)
I personally feel that the game is highly skewed towards amplification reactions, and the biggest problem being only half of the elements have access to any form of amplification reaction. What this means is that a DPS units from the elements having access to amplification reactions have an edge over DPS units from the elements that dont have those reactions. The other way to look at this, is that transformative reactions have a fundamental problem of scaling. they only scale with EM that only comes from artifacts or if a unit ascends with EM and they dont have any multiplers like crit or dmg bonus to them makes them have a scaling problem. I think mihoyo should have made tuat internal cd thing to the the amplification reactions only. transformative reactions should be buffed in someway
transformative teams are still strong, especially taser, just that it pop a lot of numbers instead of one big one so not a lot of people play them, One of the meta team is raiden hyper carry still have a large part of it dmg from overload. Genshin reactions are actually designed very well, its the player base that are limited
people gotta stop discounting transformative reactions. really. there are viable teams that rely on transformative reactions; raiden national, sukokomon, taser comps, overload comps. just because they dont do a single big hit doesnt mean they are weak
/the reason to this is probably the abyss. Making small, unnoticable damage feels slow and clunky, rather than 1 single hit that melts (pun intended) the enemies's half hp. Then you can still see the timer's still up, so it feels much better
Taser/Eelctrocharged is strong because of the character, not the reaction. You use Childe-Beidou or Sucrose/kokomi-Beidou because Beidou is strong. The problem with transformative reaction is their effect. Overload is bad simply because it sends small enemies far away to Honkai Impact 3 world. Shatter removes freeze, which is a better reaction. Electro-Charge is "slow" and sometimes can be buggy. Superconduct is good but only applies to Physical (which eula and razor are only atm). Out of all of these, only Swirl is one of the better reaction (possibly one of the best due to VV). It can be a main source of damage is used with sunfire Jean (Bennet Burst + Jean Burst) The thing about electro's nowadays, is that they may have weak reaction but their character multiplier is strong (beidou and raiden).
I think the main mistake is that they gave different scaling to the elements. Seeing the content in Genshin and knowing everything late game is just one huge damage check, which would you pick: the reaction that gives you x2 dmg or the reaction that gives you a little safety bubble that pops if you breathe too hard? Obviously the x2 damage. It’s an easy choice. That’s why the most powerful dps units are pyro, cryo, and hydro (but mostly pyro and cryo bc hydro resonance is weaker due to it not granting any combat stats like pyro and cryo do). Like most of the late game player base is like “why bother with defenses when I can just kill them faster? Dead enemies can’t hurt me after all”. Also this is why we need more non combat events or events that don’t force you to do big deeps bc it makes it fun and engaging for all players, and we can take a break from staring at big numbers all day and just enjoy the game for how beautiful it is.
Hydro resonance may be weaker but its more useful than a lot of people think. I love when people destroy rifthound floors with Xiangling, Bennett, Childe and Kokomi. You get some attack and some healing, you’re indestructible
@@tiramisu7544ik it’s useful for Kokomi, but she’s the only unit who benefits from the bonus. Imo the resonance shouldn’t force you to use specific units, it should complement the units you already have. Ex: Pyro and cryo resonance are useful everywhere
@@sspilex I would 100% play a mode like that, especially if co op was enabled. Like working together to fend off a bunch of enemies. That would be really interesting and make co op fun to play
@@alliu6562 well Kokomi isn’t neccessarily the only one who benefits from the Hydro Resonance, all other healers can too (qiqi, diona, sayu etc). I do get your point tho, kokomi does benefit the most overall from healing bonus.
Well we can do 3 and 4 reactions at the same time actually. Hydro and Electro can co-exist so you can both vape and overload with Pyro, and in the Sukokomon team you can also add Swirl to those reactions.
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 ah as in a completely different effect when tiggered by more than 2, still I guess vapeload and and sukokomon do trigger the already existing reactions in a fresh way.
@@dinispedroso8151 yeah like if combining hydro pyro and cryo made an affect that slowed the enemy whilst applying the burning mechanic from the signora fight
They can't even get application order right when it's 3 elements. I believe they've already said they're not going to have reactions with than 2 simultaneous elements.
10:50 Correction on Raiden's impact on National. Her reactions actually do make a huge impact on the comp, specifically Electro-Charged. This reaction makes the only way to proc a three-element reaction in a single attack possible. In Raiden National, this reaction is known as Overvape. When Electro-Charged is inflicted on an enemy, both Electro and Hydro will exist on the enemy(visible by the two elemental marks on their head/below their health bar). Now what happens when you introduce a different element on those two inflicted ones? Two instances of reactions in a single attack. For example: when Raiden and Xingqiu proc Electro-Charged, Xiangling's Pyronado will be able to react to BOTH of the elements currently inflicted on the enemy, thus proc'ing Overload and Vaporize at once. This single quirk of Electro-Charged is what made Raiden strong in the National, because the said quirk enables Raiden to not mess up Pyronado's Vaporize reactions. If this did not exist in the game, Raiden National wouldn't be too powerful, because Pyronado will not be able to consistently proc Vaporize. This quirk is also responsible for the birth of Sukokomon, Kokomi's most powerful team comp, but is also the most mechanically challenging of all team comps in the game so far.
i definitely feel like they could’ve done more between anemo and geo. perhaps a sandstorm reaction? i dunno but i think it could’ve been an option for them to add
Or something like erosion, as wind naturally chips away at rocks even more as ameno attacks are already good follow ups to other elements rather than that starting element. Either way geo and ameno would be nice to apply their own reactions. Crystalize and swirl just tend to lack when looking at reactions. It would be nice to see both get a chance to use them for more spotlight based reactions than something they feel just there to justify the having reactions
I feel like reactions do play a huge part of the game; however, I believe that the focus may be shifted slightly due to new characters that provide buffs that allow for mono-teams such as Gorou and Sara. Also I believe that the characters shown on the video aren’t used as popularly due to finicky mechanics or just not enough dps.
The down characters' dps suffers because they don't possess specific elements, and might lack one big instance of burst, as this (or other) videos said. Keqing is so satisfying to play, and Lisa is quite unique too, but both suffer from being electro. Overload knocks enemies outside their aoe, electro charged sucks, and superconduct does nothing for their primarily elemental damage. RIP
I feel like Mihoyo have a plan for how to introduce characters, and this plan divided in different phases. LIke first phase was all about shields and reactions, and how to use resonance with element diverse team. Now we in second phase, which introduced us to more ranged playstyle and importance of healers (with new mobs) as well as mono element teams. Can't wait for third phase with introduction of dendro element and reactions in to the game.
@@scylla1772 Man I got Keqing and she's so fun, but using Bennet burst and then Keqing's burst on anything other than large or boss monsters just knocks them out of Keqing's burst and they don't suffer the full damage. And even if I don't use Keqing's burst after Bennet's, even using her skill just blasts enemies away and out of reach from Bennet's burst's AoE.
@@scylla1772 the way you discount electro reactions lol overload is utilized on strong teams right now mainly raiden national and sukokomon. you can also build overload comps with yoimiya/yanfei as the driver and raiden/electro traveler as the trigger. you'd be surprised by the damage regarding electrocharge, did we just forget that taser teams exist? aside from taser, electrocharge has its value on the fact that after triggering it, the aura lingers on enemies, allowing you to perform vapes and overloads at the same time. raiden national and sukokomon relies on this mechanic a lot superconduct has low damage yes but it does buff physical carries (tho they may be perceived as inferior to elemental carries). and what elements are phys carries from? eula, razor, keqing, rosaria, fischl, heck even kaeya. oh wow the element fits
For what i understood one of the problem you're talking about is that Genshin evaluate much more single hit over thousands of little ones. That is true but the problem are not reaction on their own, the problem is their lack of balance between each other. Vaporize and Melt are the reaction that really enjoy a single very strong hit, but since they are so much stronger than any other reaction they are evaluated much more than others that don't require a high damage number to work, like Overload which procs and deals the same amount of damage whatever the damage that activated teh reaction was (10 or 10000, it doesn't matter). In my opinion the biggest concern over reaction is their lack of balance with some reaction being overpowered like Vaporize and Melt and some being borderline unsuable like overload or electro-charged (Unusable if compared, you can make team with those reaction, but they are gonna perform much worse overall).
The game is incredibly unbalanced when it comes to elements. Pyro characters are just broken in general but then they access to vape and melt which do huge damage. Cryo much like pyro also have broken characters and they have access to the 4 piece blizzard set and when you have 2 cryos on your team your Crit stats go up Electro has nothing. Lisa is bad- razor is power crept so hard. Keeqing is a meme. Raiden is the only decent electro unit and thats just because of what she does (energy recharge for the team). Their elemental reactions are poor too. Overload sends them away and superdocut only works for eula or razor. Electro charged has its weird scalings even tho i plan on pulling for yae miko and i will use electro charged team. I know its not going to do anywhere the near the damage my diluc and xinqiu does with vape. Electro needs a buff urgently
There's also the reality of Crystalize being a useless reaction and the game isn't designed to upscale units that don't rely on reactions. I have to disagree on his point about elements not making units good/bad. If Keqing was a pyro unit she would be unstopable, if Eula was a Geo unit she wouldn't be as strong of a physical dps as she is. I feel damage reactions need some scaling adjustments. Most fights that matter are timed so having electro-charged be a dot sucks, freeze was fun but you can barely freeze any enemy in abyss anymore, and super-conduct really only works for Eula since Physical damage is so under valued. I like the concept of reactions in the game because, in concept, it made the combat in it interesting. But having every single guide tell you that "X" character's best team is Bennett, Xigqiu, and Xianglin gets really stale really fast.
I'd argue that Cryo is the most broken element in the game and has the most broken characters in the game. Pyro may have access to more offensive elemental reactions, but Cryo has access to an offensive elemental reaction (melt/reverse melt), a defensive elemental reaction(freeze) and a debuffing elemental reaction(superconduct) which are all very strong in their own way.
@@nathanaelpierre9439 To add to that, cryo also has access to the single most broken resonance (15% crit) and artifact set (blizzard strayer) in the game.
For me, is reaction overrated? well, yes and no - yes because mono element team comp is becoming more viable and mhy seem to pushing more char that help with that as well (Sara, Gorou, Shenhe) so reaction is more like an option now if you want to use it or not - no because it would be more precise to say element reaction or just element in general is super unbalnce with current state of the game. Atm genshin is too dmg focus which make the trinity element of pyro-cyro-hydro become top element, especially pyro as melt and vape are 2 big dmg reaction., and any element that can't do that big pp dmg per screenshot is look down upon Unless reaction got more balance in the future, i will only view it as nice little bonus
The main problem that I have with mono-element team isn't lack of reactions (you don't really need to be fully mono, as for example Resonance triggers at 2 characters and Gorou needs only 3 for best effects, thus freeing up at least 1 slot for another element to incur reactions with, if needed), but more about damage coverage. You can go full cryo all you want with Shenhe's cryo buffs, but then you face up against a Cryo Slime and suddenly it feels like you've dug yourself in to a hole. Doesn't even need to be something that's fully immune, there's plenty of enemies that have resistances to certain elements, giving you a tough time. Sure, you can swap out characters to deal with those situations, but not during combat, and if you haven't been grinding hard for mats, you're happy to be able to level up your one team. Having to be leveling up other characters along-side your main team isn't what most players are doing, or at least not before actually reaching end game.
i've never cared actually about reactions and had no problem to 9 stars abys 12, and by that i mean changing comps around the chambers after 3 star them, couldnt and i think still cant do it with two teams from start to end (havent 9 stars this new cicle yet). till recently my strongest comp was raiden, sara, sucrose and beny, no reactions, just amplifications, the second is the new geo team itto, goro with albedo and some randon, again no reactions and my fun team is childe, beidou, fischl and beny, i know theres reaction here but is the weak one and i like not for that but for the fun factor. I recently got shenhe and already have ganyu and decide to try melt ganyu with xiangling as enabler and omg, that is insane, 200k dmg (total) from CA melted with beny and shenhe bufs, it was only a test aganst manasory and i really dont know if i can replicate that constantly and satisfactory per window, in theory could do like 3 to 4 shots (single target) with all bufs up and thats huge, if i can pull that off.. that would make this comp my strongest by far.
The sheer fact that Geo is being left out because it has the most useless reaction in the game yet Mono Geo Team can still 36 star Spiral Abyss even without reaction makes me really question if reactions really makes that much difference.
I personally LOVE reactions and I believe they add way more than they detract They add so much depth into the game and theorycrafting and thinking about comps and synergy is so so fun because of it. How elemental gauges work, aura strengths, ICD, and transient elements makes building and testing comps some of the most interesting forms of engaging with a system I've ever seen in a game But indeed, I can totally see how this ends up limiting creativity, design space, and choice But hopefully they make more characters like raiden Even then though, characters like xiao and itto that don't care at all about reactions are very much viable (I'm surprised you never mentioned Xiao and Itto as counterexamples) And mihoyo KNOWS how to keep gameplay interesting Hell, we've been playing this single player game with next to 0 endgame content other than abyss for over a year now! I do agree some rework of sorts is in order at SOME point to make characters like Xingqiu not the auto staple of every single pyro carry, that design like Hu Tao isn't mainly *the way* to make characters strong (consistent, single big hits that have no icd) But artifact sets help a LOT in this aspect. Sets like VV, like the cryo set, like archaic petra, like thundersoother all don't particularly benefit from spamming reactions, rather they reward regular, calculated application over spamming and that brings interesting dynamics that allow many comps to not care as much about reactions I believe there's DEFINITELY a way to keep this fresh and not fall into the traps you mentioned Great video
It would be interesting if the amplifying vs transformative reaction took a page from League's crit vs on-hit: Crit oriented marksmen scale by increasing their attack damage and crit rate (and sometimes crit damage with Infinity Edge), while on-hit scales by stacking multiple sources of flat damage and a ton of attack speed. If transformative reactions benefited from shorter cooldowns (or none at all), they could be the "death by a thousand papercuts" counterpart to the "DPS: damage per screenshot" part of the game. That would require an overhaul of how the elemental gauges work, limiting reactions themselves and not necessarily the aplication of the element, that could also make two elemental status co-exist for long enough to add a third element, which could lead to double reactions or triple element reactions.
they already did that tho(the death from 1000 paper cut), electrocharge maintains both electro and hydro at the target and then anemo can swirl both of those elements and creating a looping effect and resin investment wise its pretty cheap when compared to other top tier team, the only expensive character you need to build is just a 700+ EM and level 80+ anemo, everyone can be kept at lv 60/70 and talent lv 6
I was going to mention reactions upon an electro-charged enemy for double swirl and overload+vaporize, I just wasn't sure at the time if it could work for double crystalize or superconduct+freeze so I left out my incomplete example. As of now only electro and hydro auras can reliably co-exist, if other auras could we would have different assortments of double reactions. (e.g. Pyro+Electro being double swirled and causing multiple Overloaded explosions) The limitations for the "death from 100 cuts" are the internal cooldowns, most follow the rule of 3 hits or 2,5 seconds, which is why someone like Thoma or Yoimiya can only proc a reaction once every third hit. My point was to make the cooldown reaction specific and have some reactions like overloaded have shorter cooldowns, so characters like Yoimyia could make use of their fast attacks rather than large single hits.
My first abyss 12 clear (with only 2/9 stars) was with Sucrose Beidou Xingqiu, as of now this team is more than enough for the overworld, but the current abyss is just way too tanky to rely on swirl anymore. Also, with moderate investment, Beidou and Xingqiu on their own deal more damage than the combined total of the swirls and electro-charged damage.
The idea of reactions is cool, what i dont like is the implementation, most of the reactions focus on either doing damage or are to generic in usage (geo just does shields and anemo only spreads them), right now the system is to underwhelming and lack luster, MH could do much better and they could even make more reactions if they wanted to, like pyro and hydro could be diferent from hydro and pyro, geo shields could have different effects based on the element like pyro geo shield could reflect damage like thornmail in league based on EM for example, also the theme of the elements is really surfice level, why do we need 3 dps element that do it in similar ways, reactions should be generic and with a timer like, if you proc pyro and X that enemy would take more damage based on EM for X seconds for example so to diversify the usage of characters and not limit the comps to just be DPS focused elements.
The thing with crystallize is how each one counters the element being used against you. Take abyss mages for example. Crystallize off one of them and you are basically immune to their damage until something else breaks it.
I think it’s worthy to take note of the recent character releases for Genshin, specifically Shenhe. Shenhe is designed quite differently in that she’s one of the very first releases to not promote any reactions at all; instead, she’s promoting a monoelemental team setup. I initially thought that this setup was pretty awful until I got my hands on her - once you invest in Shenhe, her damage buff will essentially enable her cryo teammates to deal 5-7 instances of cryo damage comparable to reverse-melted hits. And the catch? Doing a monoelemental comp with her has a certain trade off: sacrifice elemental reactions to deal damage comparable to amp reactions. Such a tradeoff also encapsulates more liberal burst use (everyone can generate cryo particles for one another) and consistent cryo resonance (pure cryo team means that your resonance effect is almost always up, which is pretty damn strong). Mihoyo might make more units that do not promote reactions, but instead provide a hyperboost for their respective elements, just like what they did for Shenhe.
I think they can address some issues with Dendro reactions. For example, if Dendro reactions benefitted more from multiple small and fast hits, rather than single big hits.
You know it wont work that way nor should it. The problems with electro we have now need to be fixed now and be fixed in a way that the characters we have now can already benefit. The lack of electro element reactions critting is the primary problem. The only acceptable solution is having electro reactions crit.
@@GeorgeMonet I think I'd like to see electro reactions using the combined EM of what applied it and what triggers it, though idk how that could be coded I like electro being a consistent easy to go to source for damage
While Hu Tao's burst is strong it's not what makes her good, it's the fact that she has no ICD on her CA and that she has perfect synergy with XQ (unlike say Klee). However for a lot of characters having hugh upfront burst dmg is really important and it's what makes them good
Yeah, I agree with that, but at the same time, his point stands as well, if you're just looking at their bursts. Hu Tao's you can vape the hell out of, and Klee's you can't (without constellations, anyway). Especially given that Klee's burst requires her to be on the field, and if she's on the field, she's doing pyro damage, which would use up the reactions (and, well, you want that, because charged attacks hit harder). It isn't just ICD. Klee has a host of issues that are generally summed up as "she's clunky to play". Squishy, short range, on field but damage over time burst, and so on. Even if her numbers matched Hu Tao's, Hu Tao would still be much more popular (like with Yoimiya vs Hu Tao). Anyway, if there's one thing I could change about Klee, it'd be to make her burst last even if she leaves the field. If they did that, I'd use her more.
:24 It is not a "meta game we impose upon ourselves". It's how to get enough damage output to beat the challenges the games presents. It is the meta of the game itself, not randomly created by players.
@@wilburforce8046 Lol, the person that posted this video said they uploaded it last week, but took it down due to video encoding issues. It's probable that I (or perhaps someone else) said nearly the same thing last week when it was originally posted. Either that or you're an oracle of youtube comments XD
I really love how you tackle these topics, you've got really refreshing analysis and you are really enjoyable to listen to! You're quickly becoming my go to Genshin youtube channel just because I really like your approach to videos.
Thanks for the Video, that really sums up of of the key points of Genshin, but also in other Games. I started Genshin in June, right before the 1.6 event ended and for a very long time, i had no clue how reactions worked or how to gain damage boosts off of reactions. And it was still nice and all, but at some point, the game seemed really hard, until i found out about that mechanic and watched some guides. But some of those guides very much opposed my gaming style, not only in Genshin, but almost all games: I like to play the characters i enjoy and i don´t want to give in to Meta. Now since i discovered the reactions mechanic, it really elavated the game for me and now i really try to beat the Abyss and get the most of my characters reactions and combs, BUT i still mainly focus on my favourite characters and won´t play most of the "meta" characters (also: i do not own some of those characters LOL). For me, beating the Abyss has since become something that CAN be achieved, but it is still really hard to do. Especially when i ALSO did not give too much focus on artifacts and am only a light spender. All in all, since i couldn´t beat the abyss with 36 Stars yet, i have something to aim for and i will keep playing the characters i like and i will try out new characters, even if that means i will never be able to min max my top tier characters. I guess that´s how I stay interested in the game.
6:32 this is what makes electro great, because of electrocharge- you can vaporize and overload the target at the same time while electrocharge hitstun minimizes the knockback from overload.
Love the content! For me I enjoy the reactions mechanic of the game even if tends to alienate certain characters, this would most likely only happen in Spiral Abyss. I use my meta teams for spiral abyss but I always use my Yanfei for overworld exploration because I find her so fun to use compared to Ayaka or Xiangling. She also is not able to delete enemies in 0.01 seconds. 😊
since the release of inazuma, the game has seen a shift to more niche or specialized characters compared to universal ones. sara (c6), gorou, and shenhe are supports specialized in one element, and they do a great job that mono elemental teams can now compete with reaction teams. even thoma as shielder for pyro carries (freeing up zhongli for the other abyss team) and yun jin for NA carries (in yoimiya teams, she can replace bennett so bennett can be used in a different team). this is in contrast to the more universal supports pre-inazuma: bennett, xingqiu, sucrose/kazuha, zhongli regarding national teams, there is a reason why an electro character replaced the cryo or anemo in the past variants. its simply because of an electro reaction, electrocharged, which doesnt remove the hydro and electro from the enemy. this allows the team to do vaporize and overload at the same time. so by virtue of being the strongest electro carry that also has supporting capabilities, raiden is put into the team, hence the raiden national. yep, still because of reactions
just like you mentioned early in the video, when i started playing, i really enjoyed the depth and unique nature of elemental reactions. in fact, i basically mained anemo Traveler just because swirl was so fun... until i got to the point that i needed artifacts to do anything and floundered around for a bit. now, at AR 55, i have characters like Tartaglia and Hu Tao, but i rarely use the latter, and only use the former just for cases where my Itto can't go apeshit because an enemy resists geo. in fact, i've put more work into Itto than nearly every other character i have combined, just because he deals damage efficiently enough to not "need" reactions, since it just feels like too much of a hassle.
very interesting video with nice points throughout that i agree with. i wanna say though that it was a bit of a stretch to say the game is so easy that people can 9* floor 12 with aloy traveller lisa and amber because that's objectively untrue. not only you need 8 characters in total to 9* star it but also also the difficulty has increased a lot lately and it's clear that without some key 5* units getting to 36* stars is not possible these days
Your videos are great, I hope you keep making more! As a Diluc main, I totally see what you're saying here. My way of getting around that is by using xingqiu and alternating one clycle of his e with one normal attack, this lets xingqiu's ult or e reapply hydro then all three moves of diluc's e to proc vaporize
The problem with Elemental Reaction, as i see it, is that most team are build more around the reactions first and the characters second. witch leads to many character that dont perform well within the constrains of the reaction, to be labeled as bad. more over, a few reactions are clearly better then the rest, further reducing the pool of characters we choose from. Going so far as to alienating Geo completly and making it work only in its own bubble and limiting other elements to having only one good or niche reactions. So long as Melt and Vaporise remain as the strongest and most desirable reactions over everything else, reactions are and will be problematic
Imo, Geo working by itself just makes it easier to build a team that needs other stuff With Geo all you'll need is generally triple geo and an off field applicator to make crystallize shields or some other flex unit A lot of the cryo/electro/pyro teams have so much overlap that it's hard to make two teams without good flex slots that have their reactions be more utility oriented than damage (anemo. electro, and geo) Not to mention that with melt and vape if the aura isn't applied in that instance your damage may fall significantly, with electro/geo/anemo the damage is overtime so it eventually averages out
Electrocharge,Superconduct, and Overload NEED revamp the damage calculation. Thanks for remind me this. I will put this topic in the next survey questions
I do believe that Dendro will help to open up new viabilities that may not be immediately obvious (even if burning remains its only reaction). Burning deals damage every 0.25 seconds, and each time it does damage it reapplies pyro in an AoE. This is _not_ limited by an internal cooldown, and it lasts as long as the dendro stays on the target. Here's one example: this allows characters like Klee or Yanfei to gain even more viability as a quickswap support in conjunction with a dendro character to enable a cryo or hydro carry to get MUCH more reliable vapes and reverse melts.
I will say, as a former meta Pokémon player typing does effect a lot mostly due to stealth rock. A character having a significant rock weakness does decrease their viability and often forces them to run entry hazard damage reducing items rather than a more offensive or utility one.
Yeah, when he said about how the type don't make a pokemon good I immediately thought of zacian crowned being banned from ubers partially because it has the best offensive type combination
Theres a way to "have their cake and eat it too". Maybe the dendro+electro reaction could be something like this: "When this reaction is triggered, increase the damage of the triggering strike by 5%. (Plus x% per EM) for 5 seconds, the next time this effect triggers on the same foe, the effect will stack in intensity." So basically, as long as you trigger this reaction once every 5 seconds the damage boost will stack up and up forever. So the first triggering strike, the damage would be 105%. Then 110% then 115% so on so forth. This would create a multiplicative reaction that does not benefit big single strikes, but instead, fast repeated strikes. The numbers are just for illustration. I assume theyd be balanced and EM would contribute to the multiplier.
thank youu ive been waiting for u to cover this! its also interesting that they tried to mitigate reactions by encouraging mono teams (itto, and shenhe-based teams for example, and yunjin to some extent) and even adjusted the previous abyss blessing accordingly so that continuously dealing one type of dmg will stack elemental dmg for you also i like ur idea of higher order reactions! corrently i can only think of 3 reactions and 1 reaction thats essentially that. electrocharged enemies have both electro and hydro, burning enemies have dendro+pyro, and frozen enemies have hydro+cryo. shatter is the result of breaking frozen (hydro+cryo) enemies with geo/a heavy attack/weapon like a claymore/plunge
Great video! I was actually just thinking about this. I'm not deep into theory-crafting and honestly when I play I just run around and smack stuff. This idea came to me when I realized that my Razor did so much physical damage and was HARD carrying my team. It made me think that there is a world where someone could run a physical damage team, since PD is more accessible (in weapons/artifacts/talents) than EM, and element-specific boosts. The reaction system is fun and satisfying to use, but I never look past the idea of maxing out non-elemental stats.
Elemental reactions are great, but my beef with the system is the fact that the singular element outside of Mono Geo is kinda trash. What does applying Pyro or Hydro do in a singular instance, nothing for the most part. The element outside of a combination is worthless and I understand that its made to combine. But with the rise of Mono Geo there's going to be a call for Mono Electro, Pyro, and Hydro. Without something special I feel that the elements fall flat as no element stands out without a pairing.
All things considered, you can already do mono pyro Klee/Bennett/Xiangling/Thoma Some people count adding anemo and geo into that and it still being mono All things considered, with the amoount of buffs that are available to whales that sorta trickle down to veterans, you can get away with running such teams; the issue is that mono pyroo comes at the cost of no vape but has better particles gen. Mono geo has this as well but gets buffed by their resonance as a result There eventually gets to a point where you have enough damage to do fuck all, but it comes after a long time or with a ton of artifact investment, since 'godroll' artifacts are past the point of what your account *needs*
@@proles8 While your comment is technally correct, it doesn't actually refer to what the post of mine is. Mono Teams are going to become Red/Purple/Blue/Orange/Green/Green again(Dendro) Damage. The base of element dose nothing without being combined. Putting Fire on someone is pointless until you put water on them. Sure you can hit them like a brick but what's the point of the base element without the reaction.
@@Blaze1337 Currently the only benefit is the increased particle generation But I agree that mono teams should be kept to geo Maybe the reason why electro doesn't have a healer is because they don't want it to go down the mono route entirely lol
The problem is actually how difficult and "expensive" is to build elemental mastery, elemental mastery can make overcharge and electrocharge actually worth, but by building them you have to give up non reaction damage. but the problem is that Vaporize and Melt have 0 need to build EM for damage. So character that do overcharge will hit for less and get a reaction that isn't explosive enough, but also the fact that Electro reactions can't crit is probably the thing holding back the element the worst.
Wdym there's zero need to build EM for vape and melt reactions? Hu tao and xiangling teams greatly benefit from 100+ EM. This is why you see EM subs and characters like sucrose being significant to those teams.
@@jimmezhao1249 they DO benefit from EM,of course. but there is no NEED to focus on it as the CORE of your build,simply because of how vaporize and melt work,being amplifying reactions that multiply the damage. transformative reactions deal with addition rather than multiplication,which makes them pale in comparison. and because these reactions are bad,the element is seen as weak,and if the element is seen as weak... you get the point.
@@leka2095 superconduct, electro charge, and overload all have their place in the meta I don't think these reactions are weak by any means. Also EM is definitely a focus in xiangling and hu tao teams. In fact for hu tao at least an EM sub is worth more Crit sub if you are under ~100 EM. Your not supposed to overstack on EM of course for vape teams but the point is that EM isn't useless and does play a noticeable role.
You keep spitting facts about this game and it sometimes gets me mad how right you are. Like for some stuff we should be getting better rewards and such
I like your videos. They are interesting listen to. Also I don't really know how elemental reactions work. Since launch I almost exclusively played physical and currently I'm playing a mono cryo team. So I don't have any experience with elemental reactions.
Apart from a few really weird af takes that make it look like you play this game once in a blue moon (like who's using Shatter to perform nukes?), I think this video touched upon an important aspect of character balance in terms of 'personal' power vs 'synergistic' power and how elemental reactions can play with this dichotomy. Considering the nature of Genshin as a character gacha game, the elemental reaction system - among other factors - CAN be very detrimental in allowing a player to realise the fantasy of playing a certain character. The example that comes to mind the easiest is Kokomo; given how many of the stronger reactions use Hydro as a component, the fact that she can have permanent uptime on a Hydro aura in a massive AOE makes her quite high in 'synergistic' power. The tradeoff to this is that her 'personal' power is very, very low, simply because she is the best off-field, AOE Hydro applicator in the game, which goes to show how valuable elemental reactions are in terms of the game's balance. Kokomo's 'personal' power also suffers because she is a catalyst user and can wield TTDS, the most broken 3-star weapon (a mistake on the level of Bennett) that continues to haunt the catalyst class to this day. In another way, the value of elemental reactions reduces the likelihood of certain character types within the game's context being available in a non-crippled state. Why do we not have a Cryo catalyst yet? It's because Freeze is so strong; the character (Chongyun) that is capable of giving a Cryo infusion for free is also a claymore character whose attacks destroy Freeze via Shatter - same with Eula, her every Cryo application is or is followed by heavy damage that would cause Shatter on frozen enemies. Aloy has to bend over backwards and pray to Barbatos that she can maybe get a Cryo infusion with her E droplets. Shenhe SHOULD have a Cryo infusion instead of having to rely on Chongyun but she doesn't. Ayaka's entire kit is balanced around the Freeze reaction, which is why she is allowed to have such a clean Cryo infusion. Our first Cryo catalyst will probably be a support or be similarly balanced around Freeze like Ayaka is. Or consider Thoma, whose Q Pyro application is deliberately ICD'd so that he doesn't steal Vaporise reactions from Hu Tao, an attribute of his kit that makes him nearly impossible to play in any other team comp with good effect. Childe is the best example of a character that navigates this minefield properly. His E attacks apply Hydro too fast to do Forward Vaporise, but they form a good base for Reverse Vaporise while he still maintains the option to do Forward Vaporise nukes on his Q given the proper set up. When you play him, you can get both the satisfaction of playing the character AND the satisfaction of playing a team that you've built, which is more difficult than not for many if not most of the characters in this game. Any character with high 'personal' and 'synergistic' power will be strong and meta, characters with only one of the two will be average BUT those that are 'synergistic' will be higher due to the nature of the game, and those that have neither will be bad (sorry Keqing).
I think the issue with elemental reactions is that there aren't enough combinations or for each element. Geo lacks any way to increase its damage. I personally think Corrosion should be a reaction that the player can use as well. Something like Geo x Dendro, Geo x Anemo or Geo x Hydro to create corrosion would give Geo a way to grind out its enemies over time which I think plays into the Geo playstyle just as an example. It doesn't help that Crystalize is largely a worthless reaction. The other issue is that Melt and Vaporize are too powerful in comparison to the other reactions. Multiplying your damage in such a way is that you one shot enemies means you have to have a pretty good reason to fore go those elements if you are planning on completing the hardest content in the game. In comparison Electro-charged, Super-conduct and especially Overload look much worse in comparison. I feel like these reactions were supposed to make up for their lack of raw damage with utility but most applications of Electro reactions feel like they are more of a hinderance to the player and are barely effective against enemies.
as someone who often runs 2 anemo 2 geo it's nice to see this being discussed. because I really don't use elemental reactions the way most min-maxers recommend, but i have plenty of fun anyway and my dual anemo-geo team is one of my strongest; i just ended up liking anemo and geo characters more, so they're the ones I've invested the most in.
I had an idea for fixing Geo. Allow the crystallize shields to burst upon getting another crystal doing the absorbed elements damage scaled with EM (maybe damage equal to remaining shield strength). This could alternatively be the new 4 piece effect of archaic petra. People would be building EM Albedo immediately.
6:32 electro charge actually causes u to do 3 reactions back to back, example. Electro-charge + pyro = vape overload Electro-charge + cryo = super conduct and freeze
When we do get Dendro there might be a requirement for elements to happen on a certain order for there to be a reaction. ⛰+🌿= seeded/rooted (Thorn barriers appear around an enemy, keeping the enemy in place, and adding hydro could extend the duration) 🌿+💦= Mold(could inflict the enemy with a poison property that eats away at HP) 🌿+🔥= Prolonged burning? Idk
I really need to say you are quickly becoming one of my favorite genshin creators on yt. The amount of effort put in to these videos visually and content wise is amazing considering how so many others just resort to making click baity empty videos.
I love Geo. My first 4 star pulls were Ningguang and Noelle in the novice banner and my golly the synergy was great. I eventually replaced Noelle when I got Zhongli in 1.1 and my love for Geo still remains up to this day. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to switch teams from tiem to time but I always bring a Geo chara because I love how simple the element is with reaction or none. I think it's how you want to play the game that matters. Genshin isn't PvP and yeah there's spiral abyss but the agency is given to you, the player on how you want to play it. Heck even meme builds are even viable i.e. Shotgun Barbara, Exploding bubble Qiqi cuz of clam set, waifu teams, boy group teams. etc.
as a Yoimiya main, i take an approach similar to what that Klee main said: lots and lots of fire. I’ve used her in vape/overload teams (sometimes both in an overvape team w Raiden & Xingqiu) but my favorite comp for her is just mono-pyro, with Yunjin/Bennet/Zhongli as supports for double Pyro/Geo resonance. i run Shimenawa’s but i think Lavawalker may have some utility in that comp
I think mihoyo could balance elemental reactions by adding enemies immune to certain elemental reactions. Technically, we already have this since some enemies can't be frozen, but if there were enemies immune or resistant to dmg done by melt and vaporize, that would help balance the game in electro's favor. Also, having enemies that gain bonuses when hit with more than one element could help push mono element teams, which seems to be something mihoyo wants to do. Honestly, im not too worried abt reactions right now.
@@humblebee5597 That would be a bad solution for a few reasons. If every reaction hits harder, then enemy hp has to go up. If enemy hp goes up, then any team not based on reactions takes longer to kill. And so non-reaction teams would be screwed. This would also hurt newer players, who are likely to be less knowledgeable and will have fewer well built characters. The better solution would be to nerf the overpowered reactions.... those percentages that melt/evaporate provide. Of course, poorly designed/underperforming ones, like super conduct (horrible design that is garbage for non-phys support, while also essentially forcing phys damage into these two elements) and crystalize (weaksauce, still) should be redesigned. Of course, Mihoyo won't nerf melt/evaporate. Not even sure if they legally could, with certain protective laws about gachas that exist in China. But even if they could, they wouldn't, because people would be royally pissed if a character they spent a lot of money on suddenly did 25% less damage. So I expect that we'll see something like what they did for healing... damage that bypasses shields and i-framing, hitting even characters off screen, so now you need healing. Non-transformative reaction resistant enemies seem like something we will see in the future.
I don't think you understand how ICD works (or you're wording things incorrectly). That 2.5 second/3 hit ICD only applies to abilities (and not all of them, there are some skills with little/no ICD and some with unique ICDs). The ICD prevents certain characters' abilities from applying an element. It doesn't apply directly to reactions. There are cooldowns on overloaded (0.5 seconds) and at least something else (can't remember). Otherwise, the only thing preventing reactions from constantly triggering is the limits of characters abilities. This includes ICD, yes. But again, some abilities don't have ICD. In this case, the only limit is how fast other elements can be applied externally (slimes and enemies like them are perfect bc they have a constant aura on them) and how fast the character can apply the reacting element themselves. Being too fast isn't ~necessarily~ what prevents certain characters from triggering reactions on each hit. It depends on a number of things Perfect example of this is Bennett. His skill (press at least) has little/no ICD. If you put thundering fury on him and put him up against an electro abyss lector, he will be able to trigger overloaded every second. If a 2.5 second ICD existed for reactions, this would simply be impossible. If you have other methods of reducing his skill's cooldown he can go even faster (up until 0.5 seconds which is overloaded's individual cooldown, not a general reaction cooldwon). Another example: Chongyun's burst. It wouldn't be possible to triple/quadruple melt if a reaction cooldown existed. His burst has little/no ICD, thus, such consistent melts are possible.
You covered a really interesting topic and your voice is so smooth to listen to. Those 14:34 mins went by so fast and I'm looking forward to your next topics :D
Con 4 Immunities: for example Lisa does 0 dmg against an Elektro slime because the Elements resist themselves, but the enemies that have the same element can still hit you.
But characters simply use the elements and arent made of them. You can see that the more an enemy is infused with an element the higher thei resistance to it, that is why Slimes have infinite resistance against their own element, since they are literally just that and nothing else. I do see the arguement working for the archons however, in particular Venti since that thing used to be an Anemo Wisp in the first place.
@@sspilex Fun Fact Raidens burst (in Lore is on off the strongest attacks ) but it also does 0 against and Elektro slimes, saying that elemental infused enemys resist more makes sence but the resistens shouldn't be 100% off players dmg
On a bit of a side note, maybe the reason Electro is seen as a weaker element (aside from the lackluster reactions) is also because of the lack of Hyper 5 star dps. Aside from Raiden who was designed more as a suport without C2, the only 5 star electro main dps is Kequing whose performances are pretty lackluster compared to most other main dps. Hydro has Childe Pyro has Hu Tao or even Yoimiya, Klee and Diluc Anemo has Xiao Cryo has Ganyu and Ayaka And Geo has Itto I'm mainly focussing on 5 star here because its what the game generaly focuses on in thermes of: WhoA LoOK hOw Powerful thEY aRE!
I don't think that'd be the case. Or rather, that would be a situation where the character is viewed as good despite their element, rather than because of it. Like Raiden, for example. She's good because of her ability to support bursts across the team and because she can hit hard during her own burst. Her element doesn't really matter, outside of when you pair her with someone like Eula. Heck, if she was geo, she'd probably be viewed as even better overall (the non-national National team variant players and Eula users like myself would strongly disagree, of course) due to then putting you half way to geo resonance. Mind you, I do think electro could benefit from more DPS options... but it needs more hydro ones, not electro ones. Taser teams already see some play, but imagine if they had a really strong on field DPS... Of course, such a DPS would need to lack single big hits (else evaporate takes over), and even without that, there's Xiangling.
This whole video's concluding paragraphs (specifically about characters locked out of the elemental reactions being at a disadvantage) made my brain go, "Cries in Xinyan."
Elemental reaction in general are great but Vaporize and Melt are way too strong, almost all main DPS focus on that, and Geo doesn't have any useful reactions.
1:50 some characters are so broken that they dont need any reaction like ganyu and eula, xiao (and more) but some of them need reaction to do as much as those ones
I think it would have been worth mentioning how a physical main dps is far weaker then an elemental main dps unless they have some insane scaling like Eula. It would have been a good way to show how strong the dmg enhancement of elemental reactions is.
I'm talking about full teams of the same element because they might buff elemental resonances. I know that there is mono geo and mono cryo but I'm talking about every element having a mono team
I like that you tend to remind everyone that this game is easy. I know another more hardcore focus content creator that does this. I think is important bc comment section tend to be far more healthier in channels that do keep in mind that at the end of the day this game is easy and that not everyone cares about abyss anyway. This is is a long note and you may not read it, but I like to talk about pointless stuff too shsjsj It was a nice pointless discussion, I love the elemental reactions but at the same time I don't care about the element of my main, I just build whatever team I can around my main and that's it xD Love to Yoimiya! Smsjsk
That multiple element reaction is very interesting but there has to be a limit since it gives rise to inconsistencies and unnecessary difficulty with designing characters and kits... Not to mention SWIRL.
A few notes worth mentioning Firstly, raiden's use was overlooked a lot due to the spiral at the time (which gave you either +100% ER or 0 ER) so players couldnt fully use her energy generation capabilities. Second, its worth mentioning that one of the reasons Hu Tao is regarded as the best pyro dps (aside from maybe Xiangling) is the fact that her charged attack doesnt have an ICD at all.
Great video! I would like to comment on one thing though: you said that in the Raiden National comp, the reason why Raiden is good in that comp is mainly because of her kit and not because of her element. This is not necessarily the case; her being electro is the reason why that team can output so much damage, it is so that she can trigger vape-load reactions, a reaction triggered when pyro is applied to an electro-charged enemy to simultaneously trigger vaporise and overload. Thus making this reaction a three-element reaction in a sense.
Yeah, you pointed out one of my concerns in Genshin. Having many strong chars in Cryo & Pyro Supremacies. With only 1or 2 representatives from other weaker elements like Childe from Hydro, Raiden from Electro, Itto from Geo, & Kazuha from Anemo.
IMO, characters whose main damage output is spread across many hits should have lower internal reaction cooldowns *and/or* deplete the duration of elemental auras less. Also, should every single permutation of two different elements have a reaction? It would better justify having Anemo and Geo on the same team. Does it make sense to add more elements beyond the current seven? From what is known so far, Teyvat's nations and archons aka. "The Seven" each have one corresponding element. Right? Though I could see a Dark element being introduced later on as an unforeseen specialty of the Fatui and Abyss Order.
I still hold to the idea that dendro should have 2-way reactions that vary greatly based on what order its applied. one order will provide damage or debuffs, the other will heal or generate buffs (this would apply to enemies just as much as you). It would be a way to mix up the reaction rather than have the standard do bigger damage and maybe defuff. You'd actually have to consider how you use your element whether you apply the element on the enemy or yourself. I just want something interesting to keep from being just another element.
The biggest problem with reactions is simple: Melt and Evaporate's damage multipliers are too high, especially given the nature of ICDs. Chop 'em in half, and it would improve the game a lot. In theory, transformative reactions should have a higher floor that the multiplicative ones, but a lower ceiling. Being independent of attack damage would also mean they are easier to use, less of a timing hassle. But when the multiplier for a melt or evaporate can be 100%, well, that makes for a big gap between floor and ceiling, and consequently, balance issues. Put transformative in the middle, and the multiplier reactions still do a full third more damage. Put it higher, and then any character with those multiplicative reactions would be weaksauce when they can't apply them. It is hard to make a character that is balanced both with and without reactions when reactions can near double their damage. Of course, there are other issues. Super Conduct should be revamped. Overload would benefit from knockback being changed to knockdown. Crystalize should be more ranged character friendly. And so on. But the single biggest mistake, and the one that will be hardest for Mihoyo to address is the 50% and 100% multipliers. Because they can't nerf it now. The outrage would be too high (and rightly so, when it costs hundreds of dollars and/or months of primo gem saving to get a character and constellations). The best they could do is add enemies that resist that type of reaction (or throw a percentage of it back at the player... ouchie!).
Yunjin and Shenhe are definitely answers to these problems right now, like totally have a diverse way of using them that isn’t barred by typing. I hope there are more unique reactions like the aforementioned three elements LOL
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The topics you cover are so interesting, especially to veteran players who are tired of a lot of the contemporary content. Thank you ♥️
You mean you DON'T like all the *"OMG X CHARACTER IS TRASH DON'T PULL FOR THEM!" "99999999 DAMAGE CHARACTER GUIDE: ARTIFACTS/WEAPONS/TEAM COMPS" "THIS CHARACTER IS BROKEN!!!"* videos? I thought everyone loves them! 😂
@@VarsII obviously thats why everyone makes the same style videos my guy you just gotta get with the program 💯 👌 no but seriously please don't I literally watch you because you put real effort and thought into your videos. You get everyone in the community to really think about the topics at hand and I love that about you keep up the hard work we support you ❤
@@VarsII Me: "Oh, I have venti, I'll just skip Kazuha. Oh, I have enough cryo 4 stars, why bother pulling for Ayaka? I have C2 Diluc since he keeps stealing my banner 5 stars, who needs Hu Tao?" Mistakes were made. XD That being said, no regrets skipping Youmiya and Klee, only partial regrets skipping Kokomi.
@@VarsII Finaly someone said this out loud. :D I am so tired of those kind of videos being all over YT. Never change man, I love your content. It is chill but a lot of ideas and brain food at the same time.
No they're not, there's no new content and now he's just reaching
I'm of the opinion that all electro reactions shouldn't have a cooldown at all, if they don't increase the damage then they should at least embrace the "lightning = THE FAST" and make it so you can spam these low dmgs constantelly.
Of course this would probably only help electro charged since overcharged would keep pushing enemies away and superconduct would just reset the debuff timer if it wasn't reworked
I think the cooldown comes from technical limitations. The game seems to request damage values from the server, so they need to still be playable with crappy mobile connection.
While I agree, I think constant Overloads would be laggy af haha. I think instead that Overloaded should reduce the enemy's resistance to stagger. This gives it utility because you can now stagger previously unstaggerable enemies (albeit not necessarily easily if it's a boss) and it has synergy with Electro-Charged by increasing its stagger effect. Overloaded and Electro-Charged already work together since Electro-Charged doesn't use up a lot of the Electro Elemental Gauge on opponents, but this just improves it further. Overloaded can also then work better with Anemo units who focus on move enemies around without having to Freeze them.
As for Superconduct, I'd probably just make it deal a bit more damage, since it already does its job really well from a utility standpoint.
@@jmell458 They would only need to rework Overload for it to work.
Allow it to work like a time bomb, where you gather overload stacks and the resulting damage is the result of the overload damage values being multiplied by the number of overload stacks you managed to deliver before the reaction goes off. This would immediately fix all problems with overload.
@@bloody4558 That sounds cool. So basically you could apply Pyro to a bunch of enemies, then Electro, and then they'd all explode at once? That actually does sound pretty good, because it gives Overloaded quadratic scaling which means it can be better than Melt/Vape when there are more enemies. It would probably have a different type of cool down, though, so you could trigger it multiple times in a short window, and then have to wait. I still think it should reduce the enemies' resistance to stagger to allow them to be more easily grouped (for your suggestion) and improve synergy with Electro-Charged as well.
To be fair, the only truly (and consistently) good reactions are those that provide every-hit buffs to damage, with the reaction damage being a red herring that makes people consider melt and vape the strongest reactions while swirl is the strongest by far, and only superconduct and freeze are even notable otherwise. That makes anemo and cryo the best reaction elements, and hydro and electro important ones (so electro doesn't really need reaction buffs). Pyro doesn't even place despite conventional wisdom stating that it's the best reaction element (something I used to believe and even espouse as well, though largely because I've mostly been a geo supremacist and didn't even have a good idea of how crippling ICD was until I started running the Abyss with a non-geo team on one side). Pyro, like Geo, is strong because pyro and geo characters tend to be stronger than characters of other elements.
Sadly electro lacks that kind of baked-in buff, with only two particularly good electros after turbo Fischl was nerfed (Beidou and Raiden, who notoriously dOn'T wOrK tOgEtHeR). The other 5 are actually pretty well-balanced characters (for example Sara is exceptional for buffing snapshotting characters, despite her C6 not snapshotting lmfao, but sucks for anything else; if she had more uptime she would be another broken-ass Bennett, though), except their element holds them back the way geo and pyro would if those characters weren't inherently stronger than other characters AND they didn't have really good resonances (no-strings-attached atk bonus for pyro and the largest resonance-derived real damage bonus for geo).
Meanwhile it's hard to even find a bad pyro (Xinyan btw) or geo (I honestly don't think there is one; even Geo MC is extremely good, and possibly the most underrated character since people have generally changed their mind on other underrated characters, and as of this patch geo even has a support (Yun Jin) decidedly on-par with the best pyro support (Bennett), making it one of the three elements (along with Anemo's Kazuha) that has a support in the top-of-top tier).
(Also I LOVE Xinyan's design and concept, but she's both weak and boring to play, a killer combination. No wonder she's consistently one of the least-used characters, sad as it is.)
You have no any idea how hard it is for me to speak with a friend about this exact topic.
Like literally whenever any geo character does any form of high damage his immediate reaction is "well I could easily double or even triple it using a melt or vaporize reaction and my Hu tao".
Keep up the amazing work and yea basically I love playing Geo and he only plays reaction comps and refuses to accept geo as damaging element due to its inability to combo with other elements.
And on top of that Geo keeps getting targeted by mihoyo because they overpowered Zhongli.
@@artmoonsilva it's infuriating but yes... the sheer amount of times Geo is getting nerfed is causing me to become really annoyed with them. Like high hp, then shields ontop of the whole most can't even create constructs on any bosses or environments.
Wait until Dendro makes “Fertilize”!reaction where it absorbs all nearby Crystal shards and deal damage base on the total Hp of the Crystal Shards combine when the Dendro guage is depleted.
Cause Dendro seems to be the opposite of Anemo and Geo, which it can only be an Aura element and can’t be a trigger.
As an Itto and Xiao main, I feel your pain
@@qwertyness3565 here I am make my Noelle a “One maid” army, cause of how many things are stacked the moment she is final on her Ult.
As far as I know, the reason why hutao is far better (talking meta) than klee, is not because she can vape one ult, is because she can vape EVERY CA she does. Her charged attacks have no internal cooldown. The same reason why xianling's pyronado is so op is because it has no internal cooldown (there are much more examples). Sure, vaping hutao's burst is nice, but being able to vaporize every CA (arguably the best part of her kit) is what skyrockets her dps. Also, every attack (thinking NA, CA, PA, burst, skill and special dash) has it's own internal cooldown, that counts independantly. That's why if you are fighting an electro abyss lector with sucrose, it's better to thow everything, intead of just spamming normal attack.
On another note, eula's damage does not xome from shatter. Shatter is a reaction that scales the same as overload. It's not multiplicative (thus not being able to reach 2M damage on it's own). Her damage comes exclusively from phys dmg alone (boosted by superconduct's phys shred). It's her sole burt that does 2M if properly built.
You might read this and think I'm flaming you, but please don't take it that way. I love your work, and your theorycrafting is something I think the Genshin Community needs. I just want to correct what I believe is incorrect information, as I think you would appreciate it. Keep it up, much love.
Was going to comment about this exact bit of info, but you've done so already so I'll leave a thumbs up and hope others come across this. I enjoy Vars' content but I've noticed little tidbits like this sometimes get over generalized or misconstrued. I don't believe he's intentionally leaving out info or trying to misconstrue things since he's generally pretty accurate despite the sheer volume of research/TC that goes into this game lol.
Yea ngl he doesn’t get Eula as a character. He seemed to beleive she’s an elemental reaction character when in reality she’s possibly the only character to actually escape the element prison.
@@wilburforce8046 True I remember him saying freeze eula make her good also in his element ranking video
Exactly. I hope he'll see this.
thank you for saying this.
Whoever came up with the idea of having elemental reaction based combat in this game is a genius. Its definitely the best selling point of genshin, hopefully dendro brings a lot more versalite reaction in game when its released.
Too bad outside of vape and melt nobody uses it (outside of one kokomi team) leading to the game being build crit and nothing else. Can you imagine a genshin were depending what we want we can play elemental mastery with attack or crit rate with crit dmg.
That's... not true at all. If you run a pyro or cryo DPS, you'll probably use melt or vape a lot, they have the highest damage ceilings, but they're far from the only good reactions. And it's not like you're forced to run cryo/pyro main dps to clear all content, people already play how they want.
For example,
Swirl is a really good reaction for spreading elements and breaking shields
Superconduct is really good for physical DPS carries like Eula
Electro-charged is used by most Electro main DPS
Freeze is one of the best reactions and is the reason characters like Ayaka (also to an extent Ganyu, but she's also amazing with melt) are rated so highly.
I don't know why you act like mihoyo's forcing you to use vape/melt, but most of the reactions are good and you can still 36-star abyss without using those two specific reactions.
That's the reason I got into genshin in the first place
@@cloudlily8835 Basically because we as a community believe that vape and melt are the two best reactions and nothing is achievable without crit
"MOKUTON!..."
I think a big issue is the fact that the gacha needs to account for the fact that not everyone is going to get the same characters, even with banners giving you increased odds. There's so much overlap with roles, weapons, and elements that the game sometimes needs to have characters that functionally do the same thing with a different element. Even then, the S tier characters are going to trounce the others in terms of effectiveness once you DO get them. It's not a dealbreaker for sure, since anyone in this game can be good, but it's still frustrating to see it like this when electro is absolutely fiending for some buffs and characters that are good BECAUSE they're electro, not in spite of it.
This is starting to hurt more than a lot of other things. More and more enemy design seems to be be based around *reacting* to the whatever "endgame meta" is going on. Bennett teams nuking? Generic enemies now have six-digit HP. Dongli invalidating entire boss patterns? True DoT that ignores shields.
It screws over new players and largely only bandaids existing content. Like how Albedo's psuedo-buff via weapon and *massive* lore dump was a limited event. Anyone who started playing shortly after the event's release is permanently screwed and has to go wiki diving to get his lore.
Genshin's current design is very short-sighted and reactionationary.
I mean at least one character is released each patch so it's actually VITAL that they release characters who do the same thing with another element, to keep adding meaningfully new content to the game while postponing power creep as long as possible. Every time they add a significant new niche they're potentially delaying powercreep for 5-6 more patches (we'll get dendro eventually, so 6) with the future alt-element clones of the character.
@@veraducks Important lore being event-locked is infuriating. The only story event I missed was Mona and Fischl's, and I found out about it and was able to watch it on youtube, but it's information that you absolutely should not be able to miss if you care about the game's story or lore whatsoever. The fact that I might not have known about it if I hadn't been surprised to see there was a free Barbara and Xiangling, and looked up the full list of free characters (to get mad that free Fischl was also limited-time and I missed it) is upsetting, and knowing that there are players that don't even know they're missing important lore from multiple Albedo events and Fischl's event is pretty sad (granted Albedo's first event didn't add much beyond the permanent Dragonspine quest). Plus IIRC half of Xiao's entire character story was 2021 Lantern Rite limited content that follows on directly from the end of his permanent quest, and adds a substantial amount to his story.
@@vitriolicAmaranth not just lord but actually fun dungeons should be LTM also. The worst thing Mihoyo could have done (imo) is do events because they want to keep the file size for mobile players. I’m sorry but I couldn’t care less about mobile players and there’s just no way that most of them ONLY game on mobile, like I’m sure they have a console or pc to play on. I don’t remember the requirements for pc but if it’s mobile friendly then I’m assuming you can run genshin on any rig
@@vitriolicAmaranth power creep don't has to exist they can buff characters if they wanted to and they can release characters balanced
For those of you wondering what happened to it last week, the video was uploaded at 20 fps (and also had a few janks in it) so we had to patch that and put it back up :P
Whats the name of the song used at the end?
I cant wait for dendro to release so i can build a em pryo unit so they can super burn enemies
@@GeneralDisarray666 it's called "When Mother Was There", one of the dungeon themes from Persona 5
Note, there already is a way to combine three elements. Actually I can think of two ways. First is overvape, where you hit an electrocharged enemy with a pyro attack. You can trigger both a vape and an overload. Second is triggering further reactions with swirl. If you swirl pyro from one enemy onto another with hydro, your _swirl itself_ will get buffed by the vaporize damage. This also works with melt and other reactions. Your swirl can trigger an overload.
Swirl is the staple multi-elemental reaction.
But I found myself using Freeze Shock team which enables 3 elemental Reaction in a single moment satisfying. Using Freeze, Super Conduct and Electrocharge really help me during my over world grinding.
Another one similar to overvape is electrofreeze where you can freeze electroshocked enemies because electroshock technically keeps applying hydro and electro. What's also fun is then immediately shattering the enemy to apply all three elements all over again. I've noticed this a lot while playing some razor comps and it's really quite fun
@@lenardbraga6020 ahh, I did not read your message which is just mine but better worded, kudos to you!
...that's where geo doesn't count. It's a defensive type of element
Sukokomon moment
8:50
In addition to that, Hu Tao's charged attacks ignore internal cool-down too
"What you think about the system" - To be fair, I kinda wish that the Reactions system was more of a Synergy thing based on an element's core identity. Both Cryo and Pyro are known for damage of some variety, so it would make sense for their reaction to lower defences (which it does) but to counter that, Geo, almost exclusively makes "Shield good against the element used" It'd be nice if Pyro Crystal increased your attack while up, or Hydro Crystal would heal you over time, or electro would give you energy when the shield is damaged.
Basically taking each element's core themes unique to the whole element, and synergizing them into effects that benefit both sides by nature of their design. And I don't think most reactions do this well.
Similarly, as you proved, I'd really love to see that tick rate get lowered, er... increased? Make it synergize with speed better.
honestly this is an absolutely amazing idea!
I love my mono geo teams but damn this is an amazing idea to buff geo, tho you could just give zhongli that spear that drops an icicle on enemies to give free ice shields to those teams.
@@steeltalon937 The icicle does Physical Damage, much to my Chagrin.
Only one problem with this, for me: how would this work if multiple shards are present? Do you just get all the effects from the Pyro, Cryo, Hydro, and Electro shards? That feels a bit much, in my eyes.
@@KingTaltia Damn!
I like that they are slowly adding other methods to do big damage like with the Ocean-Hued Clam. Would be interesting to see them add other artifact sets that benefit different playstyles (i.e. kequing's multi hit burst with something that works like the Metronome item in Pokemon)
Imagine having the _fairy_ element and Paimon slaps 👋🏻 the enemies.
Dvalin and Azdaha, the dragon types: 😨
I personally feel that the game is highly skewed towards amplification reactions, and the biggest problem being only half of the elements have access to any form of amplification reaction. What this means is that a DPS units from the elements having access to amplification reactions have an edge over DPS units from the elements that dont have those reactions. The other way to look at this, is that transformative reactions have a fundamental problem of scaling. they only scale with EM that only comes from artifacts or if a unit ascends with EM and they dont have any multiplers like crit or dmg bonus to them makes them have a scaling problem. I think mihoyo should have made tuat internal cd thing to the the amplification reactions only. transformative reactions should be buffed in someway
transformative teams are still strong, especially taser, just that it pop a lot of numbers instead of one big one so not a lot of people play them, One of the meta team is raiden hyper carry still have a large part of it dmg from overload. Genshin reactions are actually designed very well, its the player base that are limited
@@NoryLevi taser team is underrated, ive been using it since kokomi.
people gotta stop discounting transformative reactions. really. there are viable teams that rely on transformative reactions; raiden national, sukokomon, taser comps, overload comps. just because they dont do a single big hit doesnt mean they are weak
/the reason to this is probably the abyss. Making small, unnoticable damage feels slow and clunky, rather than 1 single hit that melts (pun intended) the enemies's half hp. Then you can still see the timer's still up, so it feels much better
Taser/Eelctrocharged is strong because of the character, not the reaction. You use Childe-Beidou or Sucrose/kokomi-Beidou because Beidou is strong.
The problem with transformative reaction is their effect. Overload is bad simply because it sends small enemies far away to Honkai Impact 3 world. Shatter removes freeze, which is a better reaction. Electro-Charge is "slow" and sometimes can be buggy. Superconduct is good but only applies to Physical (which eula and razor are only atm).
Out of all of these, only Swirl is one of the better reaction (possibly one of the best due to VV). It can be a main source of damage is used with sunfire Jean (Bennet Burst + Jean Burst)
The thing about electro's nowadays, is that they may have weak reaction but their character multiplier is strong (beidou and raiden).
I think the main mistake is that they gave different scaling to the elements. Seeing the content in Genshin and knowing everything late game is just one huge damage check, which would you pick: the reaction that gives you x2 dmg or the reaction that gives you a little safety bubble that pops if you breathe too hard? Obviously the x2 damage. It’s an easy choice. That’s why the most powerful dps units are pyro, cryo, and hydro (but mostly pyro and cryo bc hydro resonance is weaker due to it not granting any combat stats like pyro and cryo do). Like most of the late game player base is like “why bother with defenses when I can just kill them faster? Dead enemies can’t hurt me after all”.
Also this is why we need more non combat events or events that don’t force you to do big deeps bc it makes it fun and engaging for all players, and we can take a break from staring at big numbers all day and just enjoy the game for how beautiful it is.
Maybe something like an endless survival mode where being alive for longer gets rewarded more instead of defeating everything instantly
Hydro resonance may be weaker but its more useful than a lot of people think. I love when people destroy rifthound floors with Xiangling, Bennett, Childe and Kokomi. You get some attack and some healing, you’re indestructible
@@tiramisu7544ik it’s useful for Kokomi, but she’s the only unit who benefits from the bonus. Imo the resonance shouldn’t force you to use specific units, it should complement the units you already have. Ex: Pyro and cryo resonance are useful everywhere
@@sspilex I would 100% play a mode like that, especially if co op was enabled. Like working together to fend off a bunch of enemies. That would be really interesting and make co op fun to play
@@alliu6562
well Kokomi isn’t neccessarily the only one who benefits from the Hydro Resonance, all other healers can too (qiqi, diona, sayu etc). I do get your point tho, kokomi does benefit the most overall from healing bonus.
Well we can do 3 and 4 reactions at the same time actually. Hydro and Electro can co-exist so you can both vape and overload with Pyro, and in the Sukokomon team you can also add Swirl to those reactions.
He’s not saying multiple reactions at the same time though he’s saying a completely new reaction if combined with multiple elements
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 ah as in a completely different effect when tiggered by more than 2, still I guess vapeload and and sukokomon do trigger the already existing reactions in a fresh way.
@@dinispedroso8151 yeah like if combining hydro pyro and cryo made an affect that slowed the enemy whilst applying the burning mechanic from the signora fight
They can't even get application order right when it's 3 elements. I believe they've already said they're not going to have reactions with than 2 simultaneous elements.
10:50
Correction on Raiden's impact on National. Her reactions actually do make a huge impact on the comp, specifically Electro-Charged. This reaction makes the only way to proc a three-element reaction in a single attack possible. In Raiden National, this reaction is known as Overvape.
When Electro-Charged is inflicted on an enemy, both Electro and Hydro will exist on the enemy(visible by the two elemental marks on their head/below their health bar). Now what happens when you introduce a different element on those two inflicted ones? Two instances of reactions in a single attack. For example: when Raiden and Xingqiu proc Electro-Charged, Xiangling's Pyronado will be able to react to BOTH of the elements currently inflicted on the enemy, thus proc'ing Overload and Vaporize at once.
This single quirk of Electro-Charged is what made Raiden strong in the National, because the said quirk enables Raiden to not mess up Pyronado's Vaporize reactions. If this did not exist in the game, Raiden National wouldn't be too powerful, because Pyronado will not be able to consistently proc Vaporize.
This quirk is also responsible for the birth of Sukokomon, Kokomi's most powerful team comp, but is also the most mechanically challenging of all team comps in the game so far.
i definitely feel like they could’ve done more between anemo and geo. perhaps a sandstorm reaction? i dunno but i think it could’ve been an option for them to add
Or something like erosion, as wind naturally chips away at rocks even more as ameno attacks are already good follow ups to other elements rather than that starting element.
Either way geo and ameno would be nice to apply their own reactions. Crystalize and swirl just tend to lack when looking at reactions. It would be nice to see both get a chance to use them for more spotlight based reactions than something they feel just there to justify the having reactions
I feel like reactions do play a huge part of the game; however, I believe that the focus may be shifted slightly due to new characters that provide buffs that allow for mono-teams such as Gorou and Sara. Also I believe that the characters shown on the video aren’t used as popularly due to finicky mechanics or just not enough dps.
The down characters' dps suffers because they don't possess specific elements, and might lack one big instance of burst, as this (or other) videos said.
Keqing is so satisfying to play, and Lisa is quite unique too, but both suffer from being electro. Overload knocks enemies outside their aoe, electro charged sucks, and superconduct does nothing for their primarily elemental damage. RIP
I feel like Mihoyo have a plan for how to introduce characters, and this plan divided in different phases. LIke first phase was all about shields and reactions, and how to use resonance with element diverse team. Now we in second phase, which introduced us to more ranged playstyle and importance of healers (with new mobs) as well as mono element teams. Can't wait for third phase with introduction of dendro element and reactions in to the game.
Yeah, between this and other videos, I'm left wondering if he has actually built and extensively played the characters he's talking about.
@@scylla1772 Man I got Keqing and she's so fun, but using Bennet burst and then Keqing's burst on anything other than large or boss monsters just knocks them out of Keqing's burst and they don't suffer the full damage.
And even if I don't use Keqing's burst after Bennet's, even using her skill just blasts enemies away and out of reach from Bennet's burst's AoE.
@@scylla1772 the way you discount electro reactions lol
overload is utilized on strong teams right now mainly raiden national and sukokomon. you can also build overload comps with yoimiya/yanfei as the driver and raiden/electro traveler as the trigger. you'd be surprised by the damage
regarding electrocharge, did we just forget that taser teams exist? aside from taser, electrocharge has its value on the fact that after triggering it, the aura lingers on enemies, allowing you to perform vapes and overloads at the same time. raiden national and sukokomon relies on this mechanic a lot
superconduct has low damage yes but it does buff physical carries (tho they may be perceived as inferior to elemental carries). and what elements are phys carries from? eula, razor, keqing, rosaria, fischl, heck even kaeya. oh wow the element fits
For what i understood one of the problem you're talking about is that Genshin evaluate much more single hit over thousands of little ones. That is true but the problem are not reaction on their own, the problem is their lack of balance between each other. Vaporize and Melt are the reaction that really enjoy a single very strong hit, but since they are so much stronger than any other reaction they are evaluated much more than others that don't require a high damage number to work, like Overload which procs and deals the same amount of damage whatever the damage that activated teh reaction was (10 or 10000, it doesn't matter). In my opinion the biggest concern over reaction is their lack of balance with some reaction being overpowered like Vaporize and Melt and some being borderline unsuable like overload or electro-charged (Unusable if compared, you can make team with those reaction, but they are gonna perform much worse overall).
The game is incredibly unbalanced when it comes to elements.
Pyro characters are just broken in general but then they access to vape and melt which do huge damage.
Cryo much like pyro also have broken characters and they have access to the 4 piece blizzard set and when you have 2 cryos on your team your Crit stats go up
Electro has nothing. Lisa is bad- razor is power crept so hard. Keeqing is a meme. Raiden is the only decent electro unit and thats just because of what she does (energy recharge for the team). Their elemental reactions are poor too. Overload sends them away and superdocut only works for eula or razor. Electro charged has its weird scalings even tho i plan on pulling for yae miko and i will use electro charged team. I know its not going to do anywhere the near the damage my diluc and xinqiu does with vape.
Electro needs a buff urgently
There's also the reality of Crystalize being a useless reaction and the game isn't designed to upscale units that don't rely on reactions.
I have to disagree on his point about elements not making units good/bad. If Keqing was a pyro unit she would be unstopable, if Eula was a Geo unit she wouldn't be as strong of a physical dps as she is.
I feel damage reactions need some scaling adjustments. Most fights that matter are timed so having electro-charged be a dot sucks, freeze was fun but you can barely freeze any enemy in abyss anymore, and super-conduct really only works for Eula since Physical damage is so under valued.
I like the concept of reactions in the game because, in concept, it made the combat in it interesting. But having every single guide tell you that "X" character's best team is Bennett, Xigqiu, and Xianglin gets really stale really fast.
Keqing can also be a phys dps btw
I'd argue that Cryo is the most broken element in the game and has the most broken characters in the game. Pyro may have access to more offensive elemental reactions, but Cryo has access to an offensive elemental reaction (melt/reverse melt), a defensive elemental reaction(freeze) and a debuffing elemental reaction(superconduct) which are all very strong in their own way.
Electro CHARACTERS need a buff. Many top teams use fishl and beidou, two underated electro units, along with raiden.
@@nathanaelpierre9439 To add to that, cryo also has access to the single most broken resonance (15% crit) and artifact set (blizzard strayer) in the game.
For me, is reaction overrated? well, yes and no
- yes because mono element team comp is becoming more viable and mhy seem to pushing more char that help with that as well (Sara, Gorou, Shenhe) so reaction is more like an option now if you want to use it or not
- no because it would be more precise to say element reaction or just element in general is super unbalnce with current state of the game. Atm genshin is too dmg focus which make the trinity element of pyro-cyro-hydro become top element, especially pyro as melt and vape are 2 big dmg reaction., and any element that can't do that big pp dmg per screenshot is look down upon
Unless reaction got more balance in the future, i will only view it as nice little bonus
The main problem that I have with mono-element team isn't lack of reactions (you don't really need to be fully mono, as for example Resonance triggers at 2 characters and Gorou needs only 3 for best effects, thus freeing up at least 1 slot for another element to incur reactions with, if needed), but more about damage coverage. You can go full cryo all you want with Shenhe's cryo buffs, but then you face up against a Cryo Slime and suddenly it feels like you've dug yourself in to a hole.
Doesn't even need to be something that's fully immune, there's plenty of enemies that have resistances to certain elements, giving you a tough time.
Sure, you can swap out characters to deal with those situations, but not during combat, and if you haven't been grinding hard for mats, you're happy to be able to level up your one team. Having to be leveling up other characters along-side your main team isn't what most players are doing, or at least not before actually reaching end game.
i've never cared actually about reactions and had no problem to 9 stars abys 12, and by that i mean changing comps around the chambers after 3 star them, couldnt and i think still cant do it with two teams from start to end (havent 9 stars this new cicle yet). till recently my strongest comp was raiden, sara, sucrose and beny, no reactions, just amplifications, the second is the new geo team itto, goro with albedo and some randon, again no reactions and my fun team is childe, beidou, fischl and beny, i know theres reaction here but is the weak one and i like not for that but for the fun factor. I recently got shenhe and already have ganyu and decide to try melt ganyu with xiangling as enabler and omg, that is insane, 200k dmg (total) from CA melted with beny and shenhe bufs, it was only a test aganst manasory and i really dont know if i can replicate that constantly and satisfactory per window, in theory could do like 3 to 4 shots (single target) with all bufs up and thats huge, if i can pull that off.. that would make this comp my strongest by far.
The sheer fact that Geo is being left out because it has the most useless reaction in the game yet Mono Geo Team can still 36 star Spiral Abyss even without reaction makes me really question if reactions really makes that much difference.
I personally LOVE reactions and I believe they add way more than they detract
They add so much depth into the game and theorycrafting and thinking about comps and synergy is so so fun because of it.
How elemental gauges work, aura strengths, ICD, and transient elements makes building and testing comps some of the most interesting forms of engaging with a system I've ever seen in a game
But indeed, I can totally see how this ends up limiting creativity, design space, and choice
But hopefully they make more characters like raiden
Even then though, characters like xiao and itto that don't care at all about reactions are very much viable (I'm surprised you never mentioned Xiao and Itto as counterexamples)
And mihoyo KNOWS how to keep gameplay interesting
Hell, we've been playing this single player game with next to 0 endgame content other than abyss for over a year now!
I do agree some rework of sorts is in order at SOME point to make characters like Xingqiu not the auto staple of every single pyro carry, that design like Hu Tao isn't mainly *the way* to make characters strong (consistent, single big hits that have no icd)
But artifact sets help a LOT in this aspect. Sets like VV, like the cryo set, like archaic petra, like thundersoother all don't particularly benefit from spamming reactions, rather they reward regular, calculated application over spamming and that brings interesting dynamics that allow many comps to not care as much about reactions
I believe there's DEFINITELY a way to keep this fresh and not fall into the traps you mentioned
Great video
It would be interesting if the amplifying vs transformative reaction took a page from League's crit vs on-hit:
Crit oriented marksmen scale by increasing their attack damage and crit rate (and sometimes crit damage with Infinity Edge), while on-hit scales by stacking multiple sources of flat damage and a ton of attack speed.
If transformative reactions benefited from shorter cooldowns (or none at all), they could be the "death by a thousand papercuts" counterpart to the "DPS: damage per screenshot" part of the game.
That would require an overhaul of how the elemental gauges work, limiting reactions themselves and not necessarily the aplication of the element, that could also make two elemental status co-exist for long enough to add a third element, which could lead to double reactions or triple element reactions.
they already did that tho(the death from 1000 paper cut), electrocharge maintains both electro and hydro at the target and then anemo can swirl both of those elements and creating a looping effect
and resin investment wise its pretty cheap when compared to other top tier team, the only expensive character you need to build is just a 700+ EM and level 80+ anemo, everyone can be kept at lv 60/70 and talent lv 6
I was going to mention reactions upon an electro-charged enemy for double swirl and overload+vaporize, I just wasn't sure at the time if it could work for double crystalize or superconduct+freeze so I left out my incomplete example.
As of now only electro and hydro auras can reliably co-exist, if other auras could we would have different assortments of double reactions.
(e.g. Pyro+Electro being double swirled and causing multiple Overloaded explosions)
The limitations for the "death from 100 cuts" are the internal cooldowns, most follow the rule of 3 hits or 2,5 seconds, which is why someone like Thoma or Yoimiya can only proc a reaction once every third hit.
My point was to make the cooldown reaction specific and have some reactions like overloaded have shorter cooldowns, so characters like Yoimyia could make use of their fast attacks rather than large single hits.
My first abyss 12 clear (with only 2/9 stars) was with Sucrose Beidou Xingqiu, as of now this team is more than enough for the overworld, but the current abyss is just way too tanky to rely on swirl anymore.
Also, with moderate investment, Beidou and Xingqiu on their own deal more damage than the combined total of the swirls and electro-charged damage.
I wish it was faster to get the talent books, artifacts and mora without spending more resin which is so boring
So this is the reason why 90% of the playerbase uses the same 6 characters exclusively when we have like 42
The idea of reactions is cool, what i dont like is the implementation, most of the reactions focus on either doing damage or are to generic in usage (geo just does shields and anemo only spreads them), right now the system is to underwhelming and lack luster, MH could do much better and they could even make more reactions if they wanted to, like pyro and hydro could be diferent from hydro and pyro, geo shields could have different effects based on the element like pyro geo shield could reflect damage like thornmail in league based on EM for example, also the theme of the elements is really surfice level, why do we need 3 dps element that do it in similar ways, reactions should be generic and with a timer like, if you proc pyro and X that enemy would take more damage based on EM for X seconds for example so to diversify the usage of characters and not limit the comps to just be DPS focused elements.
The thing with crystallize is how each one counters the element being used against you. Take abyss mages for example. Crystallize off one of them and you are basically immune to their damage until something else breaks it.
I think it’s worthy to take note of the recent character releases for Genshin, specifically Shenhe.
Shenhe is designed quite differently in that she’s one of the very first releases to not promote any reactions at all; instead, she’s promoting a monoelemental team setup.
I initially thought that this setup was pretty awful until I got my hands on her - once you invest in Shenhe, her damage buff will essentially enable her cryo teammates to deal 5-7 instances of cryo damage comparable to reverse-melted hits.
And the catch? Doing a monoelemental comp with her has a certain trade off: sacrifice elemental reactions to deal damage comparable to amp reactions. Such a tradeoff also encapsulates more liberal burst use (everyone can generate cryo particles for one another) and consistent cryo resonance (pure cryo team means that your resonance effect is almost always up, which is pretty damn strong).
Mihoyo might make more units that do not promote reactions, but instead provide a hyperboost for their respective elements, just like what they did for Shenhe.
I think they can address some issues with Dendro reactions. For example, if Dendro reactions benefitted more from multiple small and fast hits, rather than single big hits.
we really need this
we already know that at least burning will
You know it wont work that way nor should it.
The problems with electro we have now need to be fixed now and be fixed in a way that the characters we have now can already benefit.
The lack of electro element reactions critting is the primary problem. The only acceptable solution is having electro reactions crit.
@@GeorgeMonet I think I'd like to see electro reactions using the combined EM of what applied it and what triggers it, though idk how that could be coded
I like electro being a consistent easy to go to source for damage
Here I am to say... it's exactly what Keqing needs
And also... Dendro is coming
While Hu Tao's burst is strong it's not what makes her good, it's the fact that she has no ICD on her CA and that she has perfect synergy with XQ (unlike say Klee). However for a lot of characters having hugh upfront burst dmg is really important and it's what makes them good
Yeah, I agree with that, but at the same time, his point stands as well, if you're just looking at their bursts. Hu Tao's you can vape the hell out of, and Klee's you can't (without constellations, anyway). Especially given that Klee's burst requires her to be on the field, and if she's on the field, she's doing pyro damage, which would use up the reactions (and, well, you want that, because charged attacks hit harder).
It isn't just ICD. Klee has a host of issues that are generally summed up as "she's clunky to play". Squishy, short range, on field but damage over time burst, and so on. Even if her numbers matched Hu Tao's, Hu Tao would still be much more popular (like with Yoimiya vs Hu Tao).
Anyway, if there's one thing I could change about Klee, it'd be to make her burst last even if she leaves the field. If they did that, I'd use her more.
@@Axterix13 yeah that's fair. Also if she was off field she would prob be pretty good just like Xiangling
:24 It is not a "meta game we impose upon ourselves". It's how to get enough damage output to beat the challenges the games presents. It is the meta of the game itself, not randomly created by players.
I just got the biggest feeling of De Ja Vu from your comment.
Did you comment this before? I’ve seen this exact comment before down to the :24.
@@wilburforce8046 Lol, the person that posted this video said they uploaded it last week, but took it down due to video encoding issues. It's probable that I (or perhaps someone else) said nearly the same thing last week when it was originally posted. Either that or you're an oracle of youtube comments XD
@@pyro226 nah I remember this from a month ago. This exact argument about meta and community and that pfp.
Bruh.
I really love how you tackle these topics, you've got really refreshing analysis and you are really enjoyable to listen to! You're quickly becoming my go to Genshin youtube channel just because I really like your approach to videos.
Thanks for the Video, that really sums up of of the key points of Genshin, but also in other Games.
I started Genshin in June, right before the 1.6 event ended and for a very long time, i had no clue how reactions worked or how to gain damage boosts off of reactions. And it was still nice and all, but at some point, the game seemed really hard, until i found out about that mechanic and watched some guides. But some of those guides very much opposed my gaming style, not only in Genshin, but almost all games: I like to play the characters i enjoy and i don´t want to give in to Meta. Now since i discovered the reactions mechanic, it really elavated the game for me and now i really try to beat the Abyss and get the most of my characters reactions and combs, BUT i still mainly focus on my favourite characters and won´t play most of the "meta" characters (also: i do not own some of those characters LOL).
For me, beating the Abyss has since become something that CAN be achieved, but it is still really hard to do. Especially when i ALSO did not give too much focus on artifacts and am only a light spender.
All in all, since i couldn´t beat the abyss with 36 Stars yet, i have something to aim for and i will keep playing the characters i like and i will try out new characters, even if that means i will never be able to min max my top tier characters. I guess that´s how I stay interested in the game.
this is such a good topic that needed to be covered. it's so nice to know that my mono geo, anemo, and pyro teams are validated (◍•ᴗ•◍)
Something I would love vars to cover are the bosses. I love boss tier lists and I feel like vars can cover th mechanics of the fights pretty well
Futaba theme forgot this banger existed
DaBondrewd?
6:32 this is what makes electro great, because of electrocharge- you can vaporize and overload the target at the same time while electrocharge hitstun minimizes the knockback from overload.
I have actually never noticed elemental reactions or been that interested in it, I remember I liked freezing
So I’d want more stuff like that
Love the content! For me I enjoy the reactions mechanic of the game even if tends to alienate certain characters, this would most likely only happen in Spiral Abyss. I use my meta teams for spiral abyss but I always use my Yanfei for overworld exploration because I find her so fun to use compared to Ayaka or Xiangling. She also is not able to delete enemies in 0.01 seconds. 😊
"the general consesus among klee mains was just fire. they wanted to watch the world burn"
sounds about right for klee mains lol
Thank you Vars II for the video and great content as always! Peace Out and Take Care!
Yay! The video is back, time to rewatch it again. I wonder why it was reuploaded tho
Technical errors! The first video was 20 fps LOL
since the release of inazuma, the game has seen a shift to more niche or specialized characters compared to universal ones. sara (c6), gorou, and shenhe are supports specialized in one element, and they do a great job that mono elemental teams can now compete with reaction teams.
even thoma as shielder for pyro carries (freeing up zhongli for the other abyss team) and yun jin for NA carries (in yoimiya teams, she can replace bennett so bennett can be used in a different team).
this is in contrast to the more universal supports pre-inazuma: bennett, xingqiu, sucrose/kazuha, zhongli
regarding national teams, there is a reason why an electro character replaced the cryo or anemo in the past variants. its simply because of an electro reaction, electrocharged, which doesnt remove the hydro and electro from the enemy. this allows the team to do vaporize and overload at the same time. so by virtue of being the strongest electro carry that also has supporting capabilities, raiden is put into the team, hence the raiden national. yep, still because of reactions
just like you mentioned early in the video, when i started playing, i really enjoyed the depth and unique nature of elemental reactions. in fact, i basically mained anemo Traveler just because swirl was so fun... until i got to the point that i needed artifacts to do anything and floundered around for a bit. now, at AR 55, i have characters like Tartaglia and Hu Tao, but i rarely use the latter, and only use the former just for cases where my Itto can't go apeshit because an enemy resists geo. in fact, i've put more work into Itto than nearly every other character i have combined, just because he deals damage efficiently enough to not "need" reactions, since it just feels like too much of a hassle.
very interesting video with nice points throughout that i agree with. i wanna say though that it was a bit of a stretch to say the game is so easy that people can 9* floor 12 with aloy traveller lisa and amber because that's objectively untrue. not only you need 8 characters in total to 9* star it but also also the difficulty has increased a lot lately and it's clear that without some key 5* units getting to 36* stars is not possible these days
Your videos are great, I hope you keep making more!
As a Diluc main, I totally see what you're saying here. My way of getting around that is by using xingqiu and alternating one clycle of his e with one normal attack, this lets xingqiu's ult or e reapply hydro then all three moves of diluc's e to proc vaporize
The problem with Elemental Reaction, as i see it, is that most team are build more around the reactions first and the characters second. witch leads to many character that dont perform well within the constrains of the reaction, to be labeled as bad. more over, a few reactions are clearly better then the rest, further reducing the pool of characters we choose from. Going so far as to alienating Geo completly and making it work only in its own bubble and limiting other elements to having only one good or niche reactions.
So long as Melt and Vaporise remain as the strongest and most desirable reactions over everything else, reactions are and will be problematic
Imo, Geo working by itself just makes it easier to build a team that needs other stuff
With Geo all you'll need is generally triple geo and an off field applicator to make crystallize shields or some other flex unit
A lot of the cryo/electro/pyro teams have so much overlap that it's hard to make two teams without good flex slots that have their reactions be more utility oriented than damage (anemo. electro, and geo)
Not to mention that with melt and vape if the aura isn't applied in that instance your damage may fall significantly, with electro/geo/anemo the damage is overtime so it eventually averages out
Electrocharge,Superconduct, and Overload NEED revamp the damage calculation.
Thanks for remind me this. I will put this topic in the next survey questions
loved the persona 5 music in the background!!! futaba's palace is one of my favorites
I do believe that Dendro will help to open up new viabilities that may not be immediately obvious (even if burning remains its only reaction). Burning deals damage every 0.25 seconds, and each time it does damage it reapplies pyro in an AoE. This is _not_ limited by an internal cooldown, and it lasts as long as the dendro stays on the target.
Here's one example: this allows characters like Klee or Yanfei to gain even more viability as a quickswap support in conjunction with a dendro character to enable a cryo or hydro carry to get MUCH more reliable vapes and reverse melts.
I still find it strange Cryo is the only element that has any affect at all by itself.
id love to see you theorise how dendro could be best implemented into the game
hopefullly when dendro comes it helps for reactions with elements such as anemo and feo for more reactions
I will say, as a former meta Pokémon player typing does effect a lot mostly due to stealth rock. A character having a significant rock weakness does decrease their viability and often forces them to run entry hazard damage reducing items rather than a more offensive or utility one.
what
edit: nvm yeah, and forget stealth rocks, STAB is an important part of competitive
Yeah, when he said about how the type don't make a pokemon good I immediately thought of zacian crowned being banned from ubers partially because it has the best offensive type combination
RIP Charizard T_T
Was just thinking yesterday that I wished you posted more Genshin content for me to watch and then you uploaded this today! Thanks!
Great video, interesting as always
I like contradicting arguments being included as well
Theres a way to "have their cake and eat it too".
Maybe the dendro+electro reaction could be something like this:
"When this reaction is triggered, increase the damage of the triggering strike by 5%. (Plus x% per EM) for 5 seconds, the next time this effect triggers on the same foe, the effect will stack in intensity."
So basically, as long as you trigger this reaction once every 5 seconds the damage boost will stack up and up forever. So the first triggering strike, the damage would be 105%. Then 110% then 115% so on so forth. This would create a multiplicative reaction that does not benefit big single strikes, but instead, fast repeated strikes. The numbers are just for illustration. I assume theyd be balanced and EM would contribute to the multiplier.
thank youu ive been waiting for u to cover this! its also interesting that they tried to mitigate reactions by encouraging mono teams (itto, and shenhe-based teams for example, and yunjin to some extent) and even adjusted the previous abyss blessing accordingly so that continuously dealing one type of dmg will stack elemental dmg for you
also i like ur idea of higher order reactions! corrently i can only think of 3 reactions and 1 reaction thats essentially that. electrocharged enemies have both electro and hydro, burning enemies have dendro+pyro, and frozen enemies have hydro+cryo. shatter is the result of breaking frozen (hydro+cryo) enemies with geo/a heavy attack/weapon like a claymore/plunge
Great video! I was actually just thinking about this. I'm not deep into theory-crafting and honestly when I play I just run around and smack stuff. This idea came to me when I realized that my Razor did so much physical damage and was HARD carrying my team. It made me think that there is a world where someone could run a physical damage team, since PD is more accessible (in weapons/artifacts/talents) than EM, and element-specific boosts. The reaction system is fun and satisfying to use, but I never look past the idea of maxing out non-elemental stats.
Elemental reactions are great, but my beef with the system is the fact that the singular element outside of Mono Geo is kinda trash. What does applying Pyro or Hydro do in a singular instance, nothing for the most part. The element outside of a combination is worthless and I understand that its made to combine. But with the rise of Mono Geo there's going to be a call for Mono Electro, Pyro, and Hydro. Without something special I feel that the elements fall flat as no element stands out without a pairing.
All things considered, you can already do mono pyro
Klee/Bennett/Xiangling/Thoma
Some people count adding anemo and geo into that and it still being mono
All things considered, with the amoount of buffs that are available to whales that sorta trickle down to veterans, you can get away with running such teams; the issue is that mono pyroo comes at the cost of no vape but has better particles gen. Mono geo has this as well but gets buffed by their resonance as a result
There eventually gets to a point where you have enough damage to do fuck all, but it comes after a long time or with a ton of artifact investment, since 'godroll' artifacts are past the point of what your account *needs*
@@proles8 While your comment is technally correct, it doesn't actually refer to what the post of mine is. Mono Teams are going to become Red/Purple/Blue/Orange/Green/Green again(Dendro) Damage. The base of element dose nothing without being combined. Putting Fire on someone is pointless until you put water on them. Sure you can hit them like a brick but what's the point of the base element without the reaction.
@@Blaze1337 Currently the only benefit is the increased particle generation
But I agree that mono teams should be kept to geo
Maybe the reason why electro doesn't have a healer is because they don't want it to go down the mono route entirely lol
The problem is actually how difficult and "expensive" is to build elemental mastery, elemental mastery can make overcharge and electrocharge actually worth, but by building them you have to give up non reaction damage. but the problem is that Vaporize and Melt have 0 need to build EM for damage. So character that do overcharge will hit for less and get a reaction that isn't explosive enough, but also the fact that Electro reactions can't crit is probably the thing holding back the element the worst.
Wdym there's zero need to build EM for vape and melt reactions? Hu tao and xiangling teams greatly benefit from 100+ EM. This is why you see EM subs and characters like sucrose being significant to those teams.
@@jimmezhao1249 they DO benefit from EM,of course. but there is no NEED to focus on it as the CORE of your build,simply because of how vaporize and melt work,being amplifying reactions that multiply the damage. transformative reactions deal with addition rather than multiplication,which makes them pale in comparison. and because these reactions are bad,the element is seen as weak,and if the element is seen as weak... you get the point.
@@leka2095 superconduct, electro charge, and overload all have their place in the meta I don't think these reactions are weak by any means. Also EM is definitely a focus in xiangling and hu tao teams. In fact for hu tao at least an EM sub is worth more Crit sub if you are under ~100 EM. Your not supposed to overstack on EM of course for vape teams but the point is that EM isn't useless and does play a noticeable role.
@@jimmezhao1249 never said EM was useless.
@@leka2095 yes it's not useless. Hence why it's built in the first place is what I'm trying to say.
9:17
Vars : “best singular dmg attack”
*shows ayaka*
Ayaka’s burst : *confuse existential crisis*
You keep spitting facts about this game and it sometimes gets me mad how right you are. Like for some stuff we should be getting better rewards and such
These were all super good point and u had such good points on both sides and now idk what to think
I like your videos. They are interesting listen to.
Also I don't really know how elemental reactions work. Since launch I almost exclusively played physical and currently I'm playing a mono cryo team. So I don't have any experience with elemental reactions.
Apart from a few really weird af takes that make it look like you play this game once in a blue moon (like who's using Shatter to perform nukes?), I think this video touched upon an important aspect of character balance in terms of 'personal' power vs 'synergistic' power and how elemental reactions can play with this dichotomy. Considering the nature of Genshin as a character gacha game, the elemental reaction system - among other factors - CAN be very detrimental in allowing a player to realise the fantasy of playing a certain character. The example that comes to mind the easiest is Kokomo; given how many of the stronger reactions use Hydro as a component, the fact that she can have permanent uptime on a Hydro aura in a massive AOE makes her quite high in 'synergistic' power. The tradeoff to this is that her 'personal' power is very, very low, simply because she is the best off-field, AOE Hydro applicator in the game, which goes to show how valuable elemental reactions are in terms of the game's balance. Kokomo's 'personal' power also suffers because she is a catalyst user and can wield TTDS, the most broken 3-star weapon (a mistake on the level of Bennett) that continues to haunt the catalyst class to this day.
In another way, the value of elemental reactions reduces the likelihood of certain character types within the game's context being available in a non-crippled state. Why do we not have a Cryo catalyst yet? It's because Freeze is so strong; the character (Chongyun) that is capable of giving a Cryo infusion for free is also a claymore character whose attacks destroy Freeze via Shatter - same with Eula, her every Cryo application is or is followed by heavy damage that would cause Shatter on frozen enemies. Aloy has to bend over backwards and pray to Barbatos that she can maybe get a Cryo infusion with her E droplets. Shenhe SHOULD have a Cryo infusion instead of having to rely on Chongyun but she doesn't. Ayaka's entire kit is balanced around the Freeze reaction, which is why she is allowed to have such a clean Cryo infusion. Our first Cryo catalyst will probably be a support or be similarly balanced around Freeze like Ayaka is.
Or consider Thoma, whose Q Pyro application is deliberately ICD'd so that he doesn't steal Vaporise reactions from Hu Tao, an attribute of his kit that makes him nearly impossible to play in any other team comp with good effect.
Childe is the best example of a character that navigates this minefield properly. His E attacks apply Hydro too fast to do Forward Vaporise, but they form a good base for Reverse Vaporise while he still maintains the option to do Forward Vaporise nukes on his Q given the proper set up. When you play him, you can get both the satisfaction of playing the character AND the satisfaction of playing a team that you've built, which is more difficult than not for many if not most of the characters in this game. Any character with high 'personal' and 'synergistic' power will be strong and meta, characters with only one of the two will be average BUT those that are 'synergistic' will be higher due to the nature of the game, and those that have neither will be bad (sorry Keqing).
I think the issue with elemental reactions is that there aren't enough combinations or for each element. Geo lacks any way to increase its damage. I personally think Corrosion should be a reaction that the player can use as well. Something like Geo x Dendro, Geo x Anemo or Geo x Hydro to create corrosion would give Geo a way to grind out its enemies over time which I think plays into the Geo playstyle just as an example. It doesn't help that Crystalize is largely a worthless reaction.
The other issue is that Melt and Vaporize are too powerful in comparison to the other reactions. Multiplying your damage in such a way is that you one shot enemies means you have to have a pretty good reason to fore go those elements if you are planning on completing the hardest content in the game. In comparison Electro-charged, Super-conduct and especially Overload look much worse in comparison. I feel like these reactions were supposed to make up for their lack of raw damage with utility but most applications of Electro reactions feel like they are more of a hinderance to the player and are barely effective against enemies.
as someone who often runs 2 anemo 2 geo it's nice to see this being discussed. because I really don't use elemental reactions the way most min-maxers recommend, but i have plenty of fun anyway and my dual anemo-geo team is one of my strongest; i just ended up liking anemo and geo characters more, so they're the ones I've invested the most in.
2:17 idk why but that thunb down made me laugh hard
I had an idea for fixing Geo. Allow the crystallize shields to burst upon getting another crystal doing the absorbed elements damage scaled with EM (maybe damage equal to remaining shield strength). This could alternatively be the new 4 piece effect of archaic petra. People would be building EM Albedo immediately.
but that would mean making crystallize shields actually durable so that it doesn't become OP and just keep exploding 😂
@@PsycheTrance65 The explosion would be remaining durability as damage upon getting a second crystal
6:32 electro charge actually causes u to do 3 reactions back to back, example. Electro-charge + pyro = vape overload
Electro-charge + cryo = super conduct and freeze
When we do get Dendro there might be a requirement for elements to happen on a certain order for there to be a reaction.
⛰+🌿= seeded/rooted (Thorn barriers appear around an enemy, keeping the enemy in place, and adding hydro could extend the duration)
🌿+💦= Mold(could inflict the enemy with a poison property that eats away at HP)
🌿+🔥= Prolonged burning? Idk
Overload knocking enemies back is such an asinine feature. It practically punish you for play melee Electro DPS.
Didn’t even realize I was quietly dancing to the persona music unconsciously at the start of the video lol
I really need to say you are quickly becoming one of my favorite genshin creators on yt. The amount of effort put in to these videos visually and content wise is amazing considering how so many others just resort to making click baity empty videos.
I love Geo. My first 4 star pulls were Ningguang and Noelle in the novice banner and my golly the synergy was great. I eventually replaced Noelle when I got Zhongli in 1.1 and my love for Geo still remains up to this day.
As a matter of fact, I'm trying to switch teams from tiem to time but I always bring a Geo chara because I love how simple the element is with reaction or none. I think it's how you want to play the game that matters. Genshin isn't PvP and yeah there's spiral abyss but the agency is given to you, the player on how you want to play it. Heck even meme builds are even viable i.e. Shotgun Barbara, Exploding bubble Qiqi cuz of clam set, waifu teams, boy group teams. etc.
as a Yoimiya main, i take an approach similar to what that Klee main said: lots and lots of fire. I’ve used her in vape/overload teams (sometimes both in an overvape team w Raiden & Xingqiu) but my favorite comp for her is just mono-pyro, with Yunjin/Bennet/Zhongli as supports for double Pyro/Geo resonance. i run Shimenawa’s but i think Lavawalker may have some utility in that comp
I think mihoyo could balance elemental reactions by adding enemies immune to certain elemental reactions. Technically, we already have this since some enemies can't be frozen, but if there were enemies immune or resistant to dmg done by melt and vaporize, that would help balance the game in electro's favor. Also, having enemies that gain bonuses when hit with more than one element could help push mono element teams, which seems to be something mihoyo wants to do. Honestly, im not too worried abt reactions right now.
thats kinda sabotaging the game's mechanic I think, mihoyo should just strengthen the weak reactions not weaken the others.
Hard countering is a poor way to balance things out by locking out entire team comps. Abyssal/Fatui shields are already terrible like this.
@@humblebee5597 That would be a bad solution for a few reasons. If every reaction hits harder, then enemy hp has to go up. If enemy hp goes up, then any team not based on reactions takes longer to kill. And so non-reaction teams would be screwed. This would also hurt newer players, who are likely to be less knowledgeable and will have fewer well built characters.
The better solution would be to nerf the overpowered reactions.... those percentages that melt/evaporate provide. Of course, poorly designed/underperforming ones, like super conduct (horrible design that is garbage for non-phys support, while also essentially forcing phys damage into these two elements) and crystalize (weaksauce, still) should be redesigned.
Of course, Mihoyo won't nerf melt/evaporate. Not even sure if they legally could, with certain protective laws about gachas that exist in China. But even if they could, they wouldn't, because people would be royally pissed if a character they spent a lot of money on suddenly did 25% less damage.
So I expect that we'll see something like what they did for healing... damage that bypasses shields and i-framing, hitting even characters off screen, so now you need healing. Non-transformative reaction resistant enemies seem like something we will see in the future.
@@Axterix13 idk but you cannot cram every single reaction into 1 team, its not like a character has 2 or more visions, so I think its still balanced.
I don't think you understand how ICD works (or you're wording things incorrectly). That 2.5 second/3 hit ICD only applies to abilities (and not all of them, there are some skills with little/no ICD and some with unique ICDs). The ICD prevents certain characters' abilities from applying an element. It doesn't apply directly to reactions. There are cooldowns on overloaded (0.5 seconds) and at least something else (can't remember). Otherwise, the only thing preventing reactions from constantly triggering is the limits of characters abilities. This includes ICD, yes. But again, some abilities don't have ICD. In this case, the only limit is how fast other elements can be applied externally (slimes and enemies like them are perfect bc they have a constant aura on them) and how fast the character can apply the reacting element themselves. Being too fast isn't ~necessarily~ what prevents certain characters from triggering reactions on each hit. It depends on a number of things
Perfect example of this is Bennett. His skill (press at least) has little/no ICD. If you put thundering fury on him and put him up against an electro abyss lector, he will be able to trigger overloaded every second. If a 2.5 second ICD existed for reactions, this would simply be impossible. If you have other methods of reducing his skill's cooldown he can go even faster (up until 0.5 seconds which is overloaded's individual cooldown, not a general reaction cooldwon).
Another example: Chongyun's burst. It wouldn't be possible to triple/quadruple melt if a reaction cooldown existed. His burst has little/no ICD, thus, such consistent melts are possible.
I love ur Genshin videos omg they r so creative and informative pls continue making more!
You covered a really interesting topic and your voice is so smooth to listen to. Those 14:34 mins went by so fast and I'm looking forward to your next topics :D
Are they overrated? No
Are they poorly designed? Yes
Con 4 Immunities: for example Lisa does 0 dmg against an Elektro slime because the Elements resist themselves, but the enemies that have the same element can still hit you.
But characters simply use the elements and arent made of them. You can see that the more an enemy is infused with an element the higher thei resistance to it, that is why Slimes have infinite resistance against their own element, since they are literally just that and nothing else. I do see the arguement working for the archons however, in particular Venti since that thing used to be an Anemo Wisp in the first place.
@@sspilex Fun Fact Raidens burst (in Lore is on off the strongest attacks ) but it also does 0 against and Elektro slimes, saying that elemental infused enemys resist more makes sence but the resistens shouldn't be 100% off players dmg
You’ve become my favorite genshin content creator! Keep up the great work!
On a bit of a side note, maybe the reason Electro is seen as a weaker element (aside from the lackluster reactions) is also because of the lack of Hyper 5 star dps.
Aside from Raiden who was designed more as a suport without C2, the only 5 star electro main dps is Kequing whose performances are pretty lackluster compared to most other main dps.
Hydro has Childe
Pyro has Hu Tao or even Yoimiya, Klee and Diluc
Anemo has Xiao
Cryo has Ganyu and Ayaka
And Geo has Itto
I'm mainly focussing on 5 star here because its what the game generaly focuses on in thermes of: WhoA LoOK hOw Powerful thEY aRE!
I don't think that'd be the case. Or rather, that would be a situation where the character is viewed as good despite their element, rather than because of it. Like Raiden, for example. She's good because of her ability to support bursts across the team and because she can hit hard during her own burst. Her element doesn't really matter, outside of when you pair her with someone like Eula. Heck, if she was geo, she'd probably be viewed as even better overall (the non-national National team variant players and Eula users like myself would strongly disagree, of course) due to then putting you half way to geo resonance.
Mind you, I do think electro could benefit from more DPS options... but it needs more hydro ones, not electro ones. Taser teams already see some play, but imagine if they had a really strong on field DPS... Of course, such a DPS would need to lack single big hits (else evaporate takes over), and even without that, there's Xiangling.
This whole video's concluding paragraphs (specifically about characters locked out of the elemental reactions being at a disadvantage) made my brain go, "Cries in Xinyan."
Elemental reaction in general are great but Vaporize and Melt are way too strong, almost all main DPS focus on that, and Geo doesn't have any useful reactions.
1:50 some characters are so broken that they dont need any reaction like ganyu and eula, xiao (and more) but some of them need reaction to do as much as those ones
Makes me think what if double application of an element did something like fire+fire = dot burn, electro+electro= paralysis+def reduc.
I think it would have been worth mentioning how a physical main dps is far weaker then an elemental main dps unless they have some insane scaling like Eula.
It would have been a good way to show how strong the dmg enhancement of elemental reactions is.
I would like to predict that in the future we'll be building our teams around elemental resonances
People already do that
I'm talking about full teams of the same element because they might buff elemental resonances. I know that there is mono geo and mono cryo but I'm talking about every element having a mono team
I like that you tend to remind everyone that this game is easy. I know another more hardcore focus content creator that does this. I think is important bc comment section tend to be far more healthier in channels that do keep in mind that at the end of the day this game is easy and that not everyone cares about abyss anyway. This is is a long note and you may not read it, but I like to talk about pointless stuff too shsjsj It was a nice pointless discussion, I love the elemental reactions but at the same time I don't care about the element of my main, I just build whatever team I can around my main and that's it xD Love to Yoimiya! Smsjsk
That multiple element reaction is very interesting but there has to be a limit since it gives rise to inconsistencies and unnecessary difficulty with designing characters and kits... Not to mention SWIRL.
A few notes worth mentioning
Firstly, raiden's use was overlooked a lot due to the spiral at the time (which gave you either +100% ER or 0 ER) so players couldnt fully use her energy generation capabilities.
Second, its worth mentioning that one of the reasons Hu Tao is regarded as the best pyro dps (aside from maybe Xiangling) is the fact that her charged attack doesnt have an ICD at all.
Great video! I would like to comment on one thing though: you said that in the Raiden National comp, the reason why Raiden is good in that comp is mainly because of her kit and not because of her element. This is not necessarily the case; her being electro is the reason why that team can output so much damage, it is so that she can trigger vape-load reactions, a reaction triggered when pyro is applied to an electro-charged enemy to simultaneously trigger vaporise and overload. Thus making this reaction a three-element reaction in a sense.
Yeah, you pointed out one of my concerns in Genshin. Having many strong chars in Cryo & Pyro Supremacies.
With only 1or 2 representatives from other weaker elements like Childe from Hydro, Raiden from Electro, Itto from Geo, & Kazuha from Anemo.
IMO, characters whose main damage output is spread across many hits should have lower internal reaction cooldowns *and/or* deplete the duration of elemental auras less.
Also, should every single permutation of two different elements have a reaction? It would better justify having Anemo and Geo on the same team.
Does it make sense to add more elements beyond the current seven? From what is known so far, Teyvat's nations and archons aka. "The Seven" each have one corresponding element. Right? Though I could see a Dark element being introduced later on as an unforeseen specialty of the Fatui and Abyss Order.
I still hold to the idea that dendro should have 2-way reactions that vary greatly based on what order its applied. one order will provide damage or debuffs, the other will heal or generate buffs (this would apply to enemies just as much as you). It would be a way to mix up the reaction rather than have the standard do bigger damage and maybe defuff. You'd actually have to consider how you use your element whether you apply the element on the enemy or yourself.
I just want something interesting to keep from being just another element.
The biggest problem with reactions is simple: Melt and Evaporate's damage multipliers are too high, especially given the nature of ICDs. Chop 'em in half, and it would improve the game a lot.
In theory, transformative reactions should have a higher floor that the multiplicative ones, but a lower ceiling. Being independent of attack damage would also mean they are easier to use, less of a timing hassle. But when the multiplier for a melt or evaporate can be 100%, well, that makes for a big gap between floor and ceiling, and consequently, balance issues. Put transformative in the middle, and the multiplier reactions still do a full third more damage. Put it higher, and then any character with those multiplicative reactions would be weaksauce when they can't apply them. It is hard to make a character that is balanced both with and without reactions when reactions can near double their damage.
Of course, there are other issues. Super Conduct should be revamped. Overload would benefit from knockback being changed to knockdown. Crystalize should be more ranged character friendly. And so on. But the single biggest mistake, and the one that will be hardest for Mihoyo to address is the 50% and 100% multipliers. Because they can't nerf it now. The outrage would be too high (and rightly so, when it costs hundreds of dollars and/or months of primo gem saving to get a character and constellations). The best they could do is add enemies that resist that type of reaction (or throw a percentage of it back at the player... ouchie!).
Yunjin and Shenhe are definitely answers to these problems right now, like totally have a diverse way of using them that isn’t barred by typing. I hope there are more unique reactions like the aforementioned three elements LOL