The stars obtained in the abyss can be used as currency for let’s say, exclusive weapons, weapon refinements or your idea of Stella fortuna for any character. I think that can be a good way to motivate players to clear the spiral abyss.
Honestly, the idea of making events challenging and then using the Abyss as a way for you to get event-materials after teh fact sounds interesting. The materials could rotate.
The thing is, if you only include 'motivation' to clear the abyss without either making the difficulty more reasonable (by spreading the spire across more floors for example) or giving players more tools to upgrade their characters without whaling and/or make character synergy matter more than plain whaling, all you have actually done is add yet more rewards for whales, who are the people who need them the least. "Git gud" only goes so far if it's essentially near impossible to git gud ENOUGH without spending a massive amount of $$$$$.
I think the Genshin rewards overall need a bit of an overhaul, the adventure rank rewards after 55 are so disproportionate to how long it takes to advance as well
Yeah, I'm locked in at wl6 ar50 due to the powercreep, and even at this level we're still getting the shards for daily comms, low probability on highest level domains (I get 1 gold talent book every 4-5 runs in talent domains), and piddly gem drops from world bosses, not to mention how even the hero's guide becomes basically ineffective after level 50. Like, the grind is so artificially protracted because the rewards scaling is so horrible.
Everything about the endgame feels underdeveloped. World levels past 6 do almost nothing for rewards and instead just scales up enemy levels. AR leveling is barely meaningful past 45 and completely meaningless past 55. There are no domains past AR45, and even if there were some, the AR55 ones would likely be extremely difficult and basically unplayable if you wanted to farm them. Plus, for the Spiral Abyss: I've been playing since the second Zhongli banner and I still feel like I'm behind. I'm grinding too, running artifact routes, completing all quests, etc. But it feels like I'm never going to be able to 36 star the Abyss. At this point, I've stopped trying to get to 12-3 like I used to. I go as far in as possible until I get annoyed. Then I just ignore it until the reset. Hopefully getting Ganyu will change that for me. But I'm not sure.
@@mattgriffin0231 you don’t have to complete it if it annoys you man, Genshin is a flawed game if you remove the amazing music, lore, character designs and world design then all you have left is a game that is so damn underdeveloped and flawed with endgame content that sucks and nothing to do all day after completing the available quests and events
I've seen a few others mention this, but in addition to better rewards for motivation--they should get rid of the timed aspect of the spiral abyss. Rather than being a ridiculous DPS check, make it a survival based trial that challenges not only your damage but also your defenses.
they did this with the protect the tower sort of floors but that just makes it so u really could only clear it with characters that could help gather the enemies together like venti/kazuha/sucrose since 3 stars was based on how high the hp of the tower was after the enemies were all defeated. Something with a survival also could also be cheesed by tons of dmg. As they say, the best defense sometimes is the best offense.
The whole point of making gameplay hard is to make it more fun and challenging. The problem with genshin is that they're not making it fun at all. They're making it straight up annoying. What they're giving us is stupid coward enemies who just run away or teleport away instead of fighting us. Which is not fun by any means. What they should've gave us is enemies that are hard to fight but you could counter them using strategies. Not just pray for the RNG to be on your side, so that the enemies don't teleport at the wrong time.
This. It's pretty much a given to keep retrying just to get a good AI RNG in order to get 36 stars. It's no fun at all, just straight up annoying af. To the point where I'm thinking if all that hard work is even worth the extra 50 primos.
for real! it feels like the only way to beat so many of these new mobs is with a freeze comp, which is so dumb & rules out so many good team comps for people whose characters don't have flawless stats. spiral abyss is supposed to be a dps check, but they're just turning it into a game of chase.
Not gonna lie , you don't want them to have annoying mechanics, so only thing that can be done is increase the HP , which is essentially what mihoyo is doing , yet people are complaining about it becoming a DPS check ....
@@manjunath414 a single rifthound is worth a million hp on floor 12-3 and it runs around all the place away from you. It's not just hp so you are just wrong
The first abyss is a joke compared to the current abyss: the DPS requirement now is insane, the only goal of new monster design and abyss buff is to make old five star characters suffer. Yet the measly rewards STAY, THE, SAME
yo don't underestimate the first abyss bro that shit was cryo hell condensed ice disorder, cryo claw aura, falling icicles non stop I still have nightmares about it
@@RogerNbr Healers back then were barbara, bennett, qiqi and jean. Most people don't use bennett back then, a lot don't have qiqi and jean. Barbara was given to everyone and it's the worst healer for the abyss at the time. I still have nightmares of getting freeze locked when trying to heal
The more issue for me is the increasing amount of enemies with so much I-frames. Mihoyo loves to create enemies that just stalls and run around instead of fighting you. They are not fun to fight at all.
This is it fam... I've been struggling to 3 star floor 12-1 because those rift hounds run around the map and by i catch up, my burst is on cool down and now i need to build energy whilst still chasing after that annoying dog.. The Maguu Kenki was similar in a sense that it would teleport to the worst place possible and sometimes it teleported at the worst time possible ruining your rotation forcing you to have to build up energy again while still chasing it down
@@purp1e200 *flashbacks to the old 12-3 with the ruin doritos* God that 12-3 was just full on headache. Enemy ai was so random you had to pray that rng gods were in your favour and have them group up together for you to burst them down or else have fun trying to chase them around while losing time
What if they added a "never ending battle mode" where there is no time limit, just waves of increasingly difficult enemies. Then enemies like rifthounds, magu kenki, etc aren't as much as a pain cuz no time limit. You gain stars by surviving longer and defeating more waves, and the stars are spent on rewards like fragile resin, reskins, teapot decor, 4star constellations, and super expensive 5 star cons. The 5 star cons, would have to have like a one per character limit, so that Mihoyo could still make money, but rewards like these could actually give people longterm things to grind for. Not only that, but they could add a leaderboard system so that whales could flex all they want, and have something to compete with one another for. They could even add a content creator program, where creators could make their own Abyss tournaments and have their fans participate. It would be basically endless content for Genshin and I think it would do wonders for it's longevity.
@@thinkingphoenix4213 Thanks :). I just hope they make some changes soon. When the abyss was easier, my characters weren't yet properly geared. Now that they are, the content has gotten so much harder, but the overworld is so easy, and now I'm in a weird spot. I'm F2P so far, and only plan to spend on cosmetics, but the current abyss just doesn't feel worth it anymore which sucks.
one thing i would say is that there is a grind to get your characters stronger. its from farming artifacts but its not propotional to effort just to luck
I guess he means after endgame, yes, at endgame you should already have near optimal artifacts (cause optimal is impossible due to rng lmao) and then... That's it, you don't have anything else after obtaining good artifacts
@@elstrangeenemy887 not to mention the gameplay required to clear the Abyss once you have optimal artifacts is pretty simple as there is such a large range of damage you can get from constellations and better weapons. I can’t begin to imagine how bored the whales are since they’ve just been stomping through abyss every single time and never really have to strain their gameplay mechanics until a crazy event comes around
While it's true that there's a lot of luck involved in getting good artifacts, it is still somewhat proportional to effort. It's just a matter of probabilities: The more artifacts you farm for, the higher your chance of getting a good one. It's possible to be extremely unlucky or extremely lucky, but for the average player, grinding artifacts for a long time will give you great results. The problem is that a lot of people find the process boring - understandably so - and therefore don't farm artifacts in an efficient way. You really don't need many 5 star characters to 36* abyss as long as you truly commit to the artifact grind.
@@Akai93 Yeah, I am someone who enjoys doing resource collection and management for fun; so I have nearly all my characters built at this point. (Not fully maxed out to their potential, but built enough that I can use them in the open world without them getting one shot) So this is fun for me, but I understand this not being fun for those who don’t want to have to be so patient for these things in a game.
Abyss having a timer while continuously introduce enemies that takes longer to kill is very disappointing. Most of them were simply spam buttons and hope everything dies before the timer ends, there wasn't any challenges in gameplay,
The combat now just boils down to a numbers game, and that is an unhealthy direction if it keeps going for the long term. They could instead introduce innovative challanges with counter mechanics, rather than counter 5-star characters like the kokomi example in the video.
And now it's just about raising your numbers and having shields or getting stunlocked by enemies with super armor and element spam. Good god I hate the direction it's going just to lock out f2p from getting primogems.
This is the reason why hoyo is very confuse on what they should do next. There are someone that says abbys is like a cake and there are someone that has skill issue and blame that it is hard and key spamming 😂🤣
@@Winter-bt3os People with lucky strong artifacts and multiple strong 5 stars would find it easy, and those without would find it harder. that's about it. If their account couldn't reach the dps check it is impossible to get all primos in abyss due to the timer no matter how skills the player is or how perfect their rotation is.
I feel like having skins exclusive to the spiral abyss, that you need to buy with the stars would be a powerful motivator, or having the option to buy constellations for four stars the way they let you in the shop.
Sounds interesting. Additional motivator is definitively necessary. I went to 12-3 for the achievement and the name card that came with it (only 3/9 stars since I don't have enough DPS power nor enough characters to make 2 good teams). Didn't have the motivation to try floor 12 ever since.
My only problem with abyss is that the difficulty increasing since release but the reward stay the same They should have kept the difficulty of 12 floor the same but at 13-15 floor to suit the veteran if they want to ramp up the difficulty, it is so unfair especially for the newer player with less resource
The abyss esp Floor 12 is not meant for newer players ... and u dont really lose anything by not doing it .. like at all ... Its almost as if its designed to be that way And also most ppl who play this game ... aren't very good at the game at all soo .. there's also that
@@Inquisite1031 You shouldn't speak facts, people hate that in recent years. I met this new player who has been playing for a month and complained how Abyss is too hard.........I was like really? Of course it will be too hard for you, go farm dungeons and work on your story mode yo.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483 the problem being that making a character good relies on artifact rng and resin that depletes quickly when you do play. For people who do not farm everyday, Spiral Abyss getting harder and harder makes it way more difficult for players to catch up. While in the same time, not increasing the difficulty of spiral abyss makes the hardcore players bored. Character progression in Genshin isn't as predictable or as fair as other single player games.
My biggest issue with it is that it's ALWAYS time limited. Not only is it's basically a DPS check but it's also the reason the other classes of characters are considered irrelevant, atleast for abyss.
whenever we get a monolith people complain, but I think the larger reason is that there isn't really any mid-combat resource limiter In most traditional RPGs you'd run out of mana after a certain time so you'd have to manage it more effectively. Genshin doesn't have mana which makes it easier for the casual audience, but at the cost of it being a potential endgame challenge to work with
@@proles8 people only complained about the earlier monolith floors and the main reason for that were the electro and hydro debuffs you got, it made using skills and burst really hard to use which made cc really difficult, this abyss has a monolith and no one is complaining about that the main complaint I always hear about is rifthounds
I agree with this video. I'm F2P and since I started playing I was grinding to strengthen my characters so that I could at least 6 star abyss floor 12. But then the difficulty started to ramp up and the enemies are, like you said, only properly dealt with by the recent 5 star released. I was really looking forward to participating in the last floors of the abyss but now I don't get a sense of fulfillment anymore because I do all THAT effort just for miniscule rewards. It's not worth it anymore. On a good day I'll 9 star floor 11 and just stop there because the struggle at floor 12 and gaining only 50 primos per 3 star is really not worth it.
I’m a veteran player who is a very low spender (5 dollars every few months for welkin) and my luck has been very good since the start of the game; but even I have given up on 12 stars at this point. It’s just not worth it, I just finish floor 11 and dip.
As a f2p ar57, I think 33 stars is manageable considering I can do it even with bad card buffs on floor 12. Getting those 3 stars in 12-3 is where it's definitely not worth the time and effort. Although, I still do it for the primos.
fellow F2P here, been playing since first albedo banner, currently 33* in abyss for last 3 rotations, but the way its getting harder is awful, it took me several hours and multiple rage quits to get 6th star on floor 12
it's actually getting harder and harder to do less than 36 stars too, I've always been satisfied with just 33 without stressing over getting the last 3, but that bar is also getting harder. I wouldn't mind if enemies were designed to be challenging and not a giant waste of time, but they're clearly designed to just waste time and it's very annoying
This game and company is full of this, they make or copy something good but don't understand it, don't understand what makes it good, and just keep failing, making a boring game, when it could be much better...
No it was shit. I hated it. Way too close to the ELysian Realm in Honkai IMpact that I also hate. It's an overly long empty experience with no fun to be had. The game's strength is not it's combat. It is the exploration.
I feel like the main issue with spiral abyss is that you need to speedrun every floor rifthounds are not hard to beat they're just annoying because they cause you to lose time. If they made it more like the energy amplifier event and focused more on survivability rather than speedrunning abyss would get a lot better
exactly my point. Come at me , kill me and pummel me to oblivion. I love the energy amplifier cause its all about survivability and managing rotations.
Exactly, it's like you're fighting mosquitos that can only bite you and then run away after 1 second, they are not hard to kill, they don't hurt that much, but you're asking me to speedrun killing them when they're just flying around while we can't hit them at all? That's like asking a fish to snipe down a bird
As a newer player (joined during the raiden banner) I see the spiral abyss getting harder and harder while building characters takes a lot of time. It's been 5 months and I only have 2 characters decently built (with artifacts that are decent at best). When I see rift hounds with more than a million hp I just feel like I'm never gonna be able complete it let alone reach floor 12. I like a good challenge and the recent events have delivered but the abyss just keeps on getting harder just because it can.
For me to get a full abyss clear, it took me 4 and main issue was that my characters were not lvl 89. (supports can stay low lvl) The AR is also a issue for any new player and i dont think Imazuma gives that much tho. But you do need 2 characters to dps and different elements to be able to deal with higher AR bosses.
I started on Kokomi's banner but Ig I got somewhat lucky in artifacts so all my characters are above average in build (my Xiao artifacts, though, I think are pretty great). I've cleared 12-2 but didn't get any stars. I play on mobile, so it's nearly impossible to clear the content unless I can ultra-up the DPS of my characters, since there's always DPS loss when I click on the wrong character or my phone does't register my finger and the character rushes to the wrong way, etc.
Bruh I feel this on a spiritual level. I’ve been hard grinding this game, joined at the end of Eula banner, got myself to AR49 now and still widely struggle with spiral abyss. With a Eula based and Xiao based team I find that some of the dungeons are very difficult just based on my limited variety of teams and my character levels. But I’d rather be on this side of things than being able to easily 36star and just sit and wait for another 2 weeks for easy primo gems. What I would prefer is the difficulty for stage 12 doesn’t scale up over time, but rather the trial goes up to say stage 16 and those who normally easily clear would have those to fight for the max rewards
12:23 I like the idea of getting a free 4* stella fortuna as a reward for 36 star-ring the abyss. It would be amazing if there would also be a exchange shop were you could trade three 4* abyss stellla fortunas for one 5* abyss stella fortuna
@@pexches honestly. Even if it weren't a stella fortuna, at least give us a full 10-pull for 36*. Like... 600 primos won't even get u 4 pulls. Wtf am i gonna do with 3 pulls? Getting 10 pulls every 2 weeks seems more accessible and makes getting 5* easier
The funny thing is the primos you got back then for clearing floors 9-12 were 300 each which means that miHoYo actually nerfed the reward for "reasons". But I think we all know what that reason is
The Stellar Fortuna reward would be amazing. Imagine if it was every 72 accumulated stars (so you don't have to 36 2 consecutive abyss' but just need to TOTAL 72 stars) that you would receive one. Even the more casual audience that doesn't have end game grinded accounts could still have something to look forward too.
@@SakuroAlex Fair enough. But if they were to add Stellar Fortuna, I'd agree if it were for 4* characters but definitely not 5* characters because it kills their rarity. Honestly, from a criticism point of view, this addition kills the gacha system so it won't happen, but it's a nice addition.
@@theunluckydude5458 They can do something like limiting the 5* constellation to c1 or c2 and having the character in the first place. Other games do stuff like that(PGR). Might even motivate more people to whale since they "only" need 4 more copies for c6.
@@theunluckydude5458 it doesn't kill the gacha system at all. If you're only able to use it once per character. Or make it a 100-200 stars requirement.
I agree with vars reward system. Imagine wanting to get the last star in the abyss floor 12 in exchange of 50 primogems. The sanity and time is not worth it
I play Spiral Abyss almost solely for the primogem rewards but floor 12 especially feels like such a harsh DPS check that it just doesn't feel worth it.
Personally, I just go through floor 12 without really caring if I can 9* it. I know how strong or weak my characters are, and I'll take what I can get. I'd take 100 primos and call it a wrap
@@reed3863 I ironic part is I ignore the daily login rewards which give 60 primos and then proceed to waste 1 hr clearing the new floor 12. Hell I even ditch some web events
I just play it once and no matter how many stars I get, I just don't go back to it ever again until the reset. Kind of like daily comms because let's face it, spiral abyss isn't really an enjoyable activity to destress with
As someone who started playing 2 months ago (and mains Ningguang) I pretty much settled with floor 12 being something I'll never see. It's fine, whales need something to do too, but at the same time it's kinda sad xD
Bruh you're only 2 months in, way too early to say you'll never even see F12 lul. Unless you whale, 36* is a more long term goal, took me 4 months without spending any money, and that was pre 2.0.
There's really 2 things left once you've levelled your character/weapon/talents and that's artifacts and the Spiral Abyss. Bit of a problem since artifacts are MASSIVELY RNG based and the Abyss does give pretty mediocre rewards. It's gonna be more of a pain point as time goes on, both need some tweaking to keep the game going in the long run.
No kidding about the RNG. I have been farming the Momoji-Dyed Court domain since the day it came out months ago and I still do not have a single decent set of either artifact type.
2 problems I hate the most about Spirals are the system and the margin, EVERY SINGLE SPIRAL is a DPS check, all of them are just time-based trial that tests how big of numbers you can produce in the fastest time (except the newest one in 2.3, but even that is only 1 stage of 12 that you need to clear from all 4 floors), the best u can do is CC your opponent in the center and burst their shit, which for many newer players are near impossible and is still a pain for mid-late game F2P if the Abyss enemy comp doesn't match your raised roster not to mention the buffs they give you in Abyss IS SHIT compared to the enemy lineup next is the margin between overworld bosses and Spiral 12 bosses, way too big with little to no improvement on gameplay, they simply just inflate the HP numbers on the bosses and call it a day, they don't add any new move pool to test your skills, no new mechanic to learn, just bigger HP for DPS check and I do agree with the shit as fuck reward system that Abyss has for its difficulty, a couple of moras (which will be gone in like 5 mins) and a few primos are not even enough to justify the pain. other gacha game's form of spiral Abyss (late game) would have long term shit to grind for, FFS add a shop in Spiral that gets you Spiral weapons or Artifacts that you can grind for to upgrade your characters (like CounterSide/Brave Frontier), or hell even add a recruitable character that you can obtain by grinding and spending spiral abyss points (like Eternals/Evokers in GBF)
Clearing Spirals abyss is not fun at all. Your clear time is entirely depend on the RNG of the mob (the wolf and boss RNG). So even if you cleared it with 36 stars, it does not feel fulfilling at all because it feels like you win because you are lucky this time and the game let you win, not because of your skill.
i agree, its insanely hard as someone who isn't even completely f2p (i buy welkin every month and sometimes the battle pass, when i can afford it)... i have a lot of characters which are considered meta, and yet it's still impossible for me to pass the last floor... unless you have flawless builds, i don't know how you can do it :/
Mihoyo could implement "tier" on the spiral abyss, much like Honkai. So every new spiral abyss, if you perform better the previous one, the spiral abyss gets increased in difficulty and rewards. So new player can clear it while veteran can strive to get better.
i dont think mihoyo really even intended for player to play abyss at this rate. they just added it as a sort of filler content. There had been 0 updates to how abyss works, 0 changes to abyss mechanics outside of abyss benediction , there has been 0 abyss related events basically i dont think mihoyo pay attention to abyss much , its just there because mihoyo knows whales with no skill will be happy to pay money to clear it and then go on YT to pander to f2ps with no skill lol
@@Ben-vg6ox It's pretty much just something for whales to flex their damage on while keeping the rest of the game manageable; the rewards are low so there's not much that's missed out on by casual players Spiral is just the closest thing to challenging since most of the game is not geared towards a grand challenge like hardcores want
@@Ben-vg6ox ironically they do this on their other game (honkai). it's like they took out all the enjoyable parts of honkai and just doubled all the annoying parts. abyss here actually reminds of the "blockade" in honkai - i whaled in honkai and still struggled to clear more than one level of that. even the abyss there was unenjoyable, it was just about how many gacha weapons and limited-run artifacts ("stigmata", which had to be pulled via gacha or weeks of farming), because you were ranked against other players (rewards scaled accordingly). but the rest of the content was too easy. so i ended up quitting.
An Abyss Shop, it would be just SO good. The higher the floor you clear the higher the points you get, which you can use on the shop that resets with the abyss. And it doesnt need to give you more primos or fates, just ascension materials would be good enough. Oh, and billets, wouldnt it be better if you had the option to buy them? Even if it were just 1 or 2 each month.
Once you start doing the abyss it severely trivializes everything outside of it. As soon as you can match the DPS check in the abyss, everything outside it will die just by you breathing. Exploring became less interesting to me when no enemy was a threat.
I tried spiral abyss floor 9 again a few weeks after giving up on floor 11. It was much easier than when I had first tried it and it was actually FUN. And REFRESHING. I didn’t need to fight for my literal life to beat the floor unlike with floor 11 or god forbid 12, and it felt nice and enjoyable, without being too easy either. That’s the kind of experience the spiral abyss should be providing, and if they want to make floors really challenging for stronger players they should make it more strategy based instead of using it to advertise the current banner or introducing enemies that are just _painstaking_ to fight and nothing more. And the primos are so unrewarding, too, for something that’s supposed to motivate players to pull for the latest 5 star.
The abyss shouldnt be easy enough to clear on my first try. I enjoy test running each floor and building a strategy and team comp specifically suited to this floor. At the same time the way they try to make the enemies harder is just annoying. There is strategy in abyss still. If the enemy moves too much and u cnt hit it, than freeze it. If its attacks are annoying then stun lock it with overload. Many enemies can be beaten by using crystalize to replace a healer slot for a more damaging character to fit more dps. Expecting to use ur one favorite character everywhere would ruin the entire point of collecting and mismatching characters. The specific abyss buff typically benefit a few other characters as well, most characters arent that unique
Honestly, Genshin has this thing going on where they drop an Event which makes me wish they'd add it permanently as a Game Mode. Like, Windtrace currently. Or the Labyrinth Warriors Event. Or even Theater Mechanicus. They make all this fun stuff that they could rotate on a bimonthly schedule or something. But unfortunately they keep locking them behind timed gates. It's kind of frustrating that Spiral Abyss is the only option we have for stuff near the end, but it becoming less fun with each reset. I really hope they expand at some point.
part of it is because of the oh so holy mobile player base who for some reason are the reason for all the playerbase to suffer and lag behind because we cant add permnanent content because the mobile base wouldnt be able to keep up in storage. Even though, multi layered games exist and should be the case for genshin, it sucks that at least PC and ps players cant have permanent windtrace, mystic dungeon, theatre mechinanus etc. And even then, the mobile players could choose and download the ones they want if storage allows and depending on their device. but....one year in and nothing much has changed so I doubt any of this is going to happen, sumeru will be released and we will still have 160 resin and only 3 resin half oppurtunity for weekly boss, and no resin change for world bosses and no new addition to talent and weapon domains or any changes to spiral abyss structure. And many a new fun events will come and go in sumeru and we will have to wait several months for them to come back because......thats how it is.
Labyrinth Warriors is like the better version of abyss. You have the option to dial it down if you just want the rewards while you have the option to dial it up if you want to challenge yourself.
@@ndeyedraws ....stop dude, its not directed at the players but at the game and the minority of players who for some reason want nothing to be changed and want everyone bound to mobile player base restrictions. Its mhy that treats the playerbase all as one monolith even though they are on different levels.
The only way they “somewhat fix” the current progression stall is if they reduce the amount of resin required to farm artifacts or just simply make them gone. The RNG is so bad anyway, making people need months and months just to farm a decent enough one artifact set just for one character is mentally tiring, and spiral abyss increased difficulty just exacerbate it more.
Honestly this. For me, artifact farming is just a chore. The fact that you can use a whole month worth of resin and still get complete garbage (so many layers of rng) is just plain demotivating. I don't even feel good when I get a "decent" (aka didn't roll def/hp more than 2x) artifact, I just feel empty since it took me weeks of stalled progress just for this single artifact.
making the resin system gone doesn’t fix the problem it probably will make it even worst or even potentially kill the game if you uncap the progression system for players then at some point there’s no reason to grind anymore therefore there’s nothing to chase in the game anymore if all you’re characters are built bc they uncapped the resin honestly stop saying they need to do this it’s not gonna happen anyways and it would 100% kill the game
@@andrewchatman622 I would agree with your point if the artifact RNG is not that bad. I’m day 1 player yet a lot of my characters’ artifacts set are still copium to this day. Only 3 that I would consider “decent enough” artifact set while the rest are still using random artifacts with decent substats just because the RNG for the same artifact set is so bad. If abyss only requires 4 characters then sure, it’s not bad, but we are using 8 characters in there. If I have to choose getting bored from having all my favorite characters built to getting bored from having my favorite characters not built, then ofc I would choose the former.
@@Arpin_Lusene i understand that i’ve been there me and my friends were complaining about that for months until we finally got our characters built and understand that the rng aspect of artifact grinding is kinda of a must it’s in majority of gacha games this isnt an exclusive thing to genshin you just have to be smart with your rolls and keep grinding but i would most definitely say majority of players would 100% quit the game if it was like this mostly bc theirs no pvp aspect to extend the playability you build all you’re characters with cracked out artifcats and max levels and talents within a few weeks and 36* abyss what now? 36* abyss 200 more times with different teams? fight over world mobs and bosses who are much weaker then abyss mobs? just look at something like epic seven after you built all your characters and can clear most late game content easily guess what theirs pvp so theirs still something fun to do and improve on genshin isn’t like this which is why i fear for its future since they’ve showed no signs of improving late game at all
@@andrewchatman622 The thing is I don't roll for every new characters that appear, I mainly rotate between 5-6 characters that I personally like, and I've been using them since a long time, yet their artifacts set still left a lot to be desired. I don't understand why you say that the game stopping you completely from playing the game itself is a good thing. I used to play mmorpg and have to rely on terrible RNG for equipment drop, yet I keep playing it for years and years and don't hate the time that spent grinding, why? Because the game allowed me to play whenever and however long I want when I can. Sometimes I can't play the game for a long time and sometimes I can. When I can, I want to spend at least one hour grinding, yet I can't because of the resin system. I only spent like 6 minutes before my resin run out. I used to grind equipment in mmorpg with my friends, and in here, after resin run out, we pretty much have nothing to do. It really kills the fun.
Instead of just speed clearing and defending the thing in the middle, there should be other types of challenges like endurance like being alive for x amount of time or your characters cant go below X% HP, maybe elemental limitations like no cryo or pyro allowed, etc.
i like everything except elemental limitations. it will force you to use a different character which bring up a lot of issues. 1, it would mean that you’ll need to spend your VERY limited resources to build another character. 2, it would destroy your team comp which can possibly lead you to issue 1. 3, there’s a chance that the character you want to test your limit with or has been putting your resources turns out to be totally unusable. i’m not saying these issues are unsolveable but i’m just saying that challenges should stay inside skill category
The perfect reward for a 36 star would be a crown of insight!! They are very rare (there have only been chances to get 14, so you could only have triple crowned 4 characters out of 35 by now) getting two crowns a month maximum would be really cool.
all that is keeping me in genshin is: 1) Fear of missing out 2) Sunk cost fallacy 3) The daily log-in has been already integrated in my daily life. It basically feels weird to not log-in in the morning to create condensed resin for the evening
On the subject of scaling: the powerspike from floor 9 onwards is way too disproportionate compared to floors 1-8. It would make way more sense to raise the difficulty gradually by introducing more floors but mihoyo's way too worried about their bottom lines to implement something like that.
Newer players that just cleared the spiral abyss floor 8 probably would feel like they entered floor 18 after floor 8. 🤣 This is not how it used to be back when the game first launched. 🤔
@@putent9623 no he means that adding more floors would give more rewards and reduce spending if ppl had more rewards..or so mihoyo's thought process is.
@@putent9623 Bottom line meaning their profits. The same company that made billions in profits within less than a year and won multiple awards for their game. Said company that is too scared to hand out ~30 free summons for a player's hard work as they scale through the game. That company.
@@putent9623 Genshin stans really be doing the most. Yes, Mihoyo is sacrificing their game's longetivity for the sake of more profits. Theres already a huge issue with content drought, and it wouldnt really hurt to give players, whales and F2P alike, more accessible and rewarding content with simple changes such as permanently adding event gamemodes. Bottom lines arent just about profits. Its balancing risk/reward for both developers and consumers. At the moment, Mihoyo is solely relying on the gacha addiction to earn money, which clearly has minimal risk for them since gambling addictions arent going away. Meaning they have room to give leeway to more F2P content. Players are barely earning anything in-game for the amount of work and time they have to put in to even keep up with the game's content, which is a waste of time for minimal payoff. They should be earning more in return for Mihoyo's insanely spiking growing profits. I cant believe I have to explain something so simple.
@@putent9623 And just because you cant be bothered to read a little and resort to ad hominem attacks, doesnt make my points invalid. You wanted to know why Mihoyo puts more care into profits, and I gave you an answer. And since you dont want to read, here: Mihoyo is greedy and sucks at pacing content. Take your own advice and dont comment something you dont care about. There are other places to praise a company's greedy practices and this place isnt one.
I'm not sure if upgrading the rewards for getting 36 stars from the abyss would fix the problem. If many still can not get 36 stars, they would probably see the rewards as just benefits for whales instead of a motivator for f2p. Of course I would like more rewards, but I don't think it would be a solution.
@@abdiabdi3225 That's mostly because the general reward amount in Genshin is pretty low across the board. Sure, there'd be more motivation, but that would just cause an increased burnout rate among newer players and create a sort of "class disparity" between people.
I remember, when I first got to Spiral Abyss in my GI life, I found it extremely difficult and challenging, of course. But I enjoyed the grinding in artifact domains, as well as in the ones which give you talent books and weapon ancenscion materials. I was enjoying the pressure I had in order to defeat those bosses. Lately, I only see an HP bar that goes down in a very slow pace, even tho I have decently built characters. I don't feel that positive stress and that motivation to defeat the enemies in the next floor. I'm a very light spender so I value every single primogem to the max. However, building a character godly to defeat your opponent in SA doesn't give me back anything. I'm not saying that a free 5star of your option should be given away after each and every chamber, but, as you stated, it would be better if we could get level or weapon ancenscion materials or talent books after each floor
Enjoyable content. Got a sub out of me. I'm a casual Genshin player at the point where my main team is just now getting their final acensions (AR 51) and peaking their talents with acceptable... not good, not great artifacts. Now I have to build a 2nd team. Currently on floor 5, well equiped to beat floor 8 after some growth. But what do I have to look forward to? Repeatable content to challenge the whales? Can we please leave abyss in it's original state and move the newer harder challenges to a new area/domain... or higher floors? There's no good reason to create a massive gap where all we can do is farm and never catch up. Stepping stones or a sense of progression is highly important to any type of endgame.
We're much in the same boat, I'm AR52 at the moment with only my two main dps characters (Eula and Keqing) having their final ascensions. The way I see it, Spiral Abyss is much more fun for us casuals/late starters since we can say "I've reached 11th floor in spiral abyss even though I'm many months behind in progress". That being said, I believe the best course of action for Mihoyo would be to add another 3 or 4 floors so people who do manage to full clear Spiral Abyss can actually wear it as a badge of honor.
@@DelayedScatter Man, if you're "many months behind" in progress, i never wanted to upgrade bennett just cuz people said "it's a necessity" and i really don't like it in any game. I don't like when so little things actually work, or when the things that work are expensive and tedious to get. Like it's an RPG, it's supposed to be completed with WHAT YOU HAVE and not WHAT DDEVELOPERS WANT.
@@Malam_NightYoru someone once said: "Gacha games are like roguelikes in a way. You need to find a way how to make due with the resources you have at your disposal." The two abyss teams I'm running are mono Cryo with VV (Eula-Shenhe-Rosaria-Jean) and Keqing taser (Keq-Traveler (Electro)-Xingqiu-Noelle). Neither team is ideal, the first would be better off with Ayaka or Ganyu as main dps, and the second one really needs Raiden to work as intended, but it works for me.
@@DelayedScatter I mean, genshin kinda bruteforce you to get better characters. I want to not play bennett. I want to not play Xingqiu. I want to play Keqing, Amber, Noelle, Fischl... Considering other characters, they ARE weak. It's not even fair.
By the time I got strong enough to even go to floor 12, inazuma dropped and as you said, floor 12 got exponentially harder. The highest amount of stars I've gotten is 34, and these days no matter what I do I can't go above 33. I start to feel so helpless in abyss these days, and I've actually paid quite the pretty penny for this game...
Hm, i think your issue was a bad resorce managment. A lot of players go waste time farming artifacts and they dont lvl character skill to at least 8 (wich is minimum for abyss). I did use up my crowns on my best dps characters and it makes a big difference.
@@Bullminator Believe me it's not. Kazuha is double crowned, c2 Zhongli has a crown, yoimiya is triple crowned, fischl has E at 13 and ult at 12 etc etc... Ayaka triple 8, Childe 8 9 9... I level my talents on both main dps and supports. I do admit that I don't really use meta teams, but I don't want to get 36 with a national team or a Morgana team (I can't actually do Morgana I don't have venti or ganyu), I want to 36* with Yoimiya and Fischl and see overload go brr. And valkyrie Oz or not, those rifthounds really mess up my Yois attacks. Honestly, right now my dps is fine if only those rifthounds stopped flitting around...
With this recent potions event happening, even the spiral abyss buffs feel weak. The potions have unique abilities that feel more impactful for a team's performance.
That moment when your months of investment for Spiral Abyss 36* gives you less rewards in comparison to just logging in and doing your dailies. (For comparison: 36* gives 600 gems in total every 2 weeks. So in 1 month, you get about 1,200 primogems. If you do your dailies for 30 days (60 gems/day), you get 1,800 primogems in a month).
The main content of Genshin Impact is the story/overworld exploration and lore. Spiral Abyss is simply there to provide a form of challenging endgame content for players who wish to test their limits with regards to builds and team comps/synergy but in a way that it does not make it mandatory or otherwise intrude on the open world content. The main selling point of the game is still the overworld. Afterall, it's literally marketed as an open world gacha RPG.
kinda weird you plugged raiden national specifically as a ‘must-have’ team for spiral abyss because although it’s a very good team, every variant of the national team has been dominating the meta for a long time now. i think it’d be fairer to say xiangling and bennett are must-haves.
I agree. Honestly the claim on raiden national was kinda off. I don’t have Raiden although I have been continuously getting 36* on abyss. I didn’t get her since I don’t like her playstyle nor do I feel the need to pull for her
Raiden is honestly very replaceable in many of her comps, unless they have Sara in them. I think people who recommend her enjoy her as a damage bus who doesn't do small numbers herself
@@SeanValenciaaa yeah I’ve hardly used Raiden since pulling her, she’s literally my least used 5 star as I already had Childe and Kazuha filling out national perfectly. It’s also kind of bothersome trying to farm national ER again around Raiden, so essentially my supports could be gaining that benefit of more ER but you’d have to build them around it first to actually make use of it
I do think that Spiral abyss is ruining the community, making it harder to just enjoy characters without feeling guilty for their damage being "not enough" I'm a Chongyun main, I would know...
The thing is, some enjoy spiral abyss and some just ignores it and both are fine. I’m a spiral abyss enjoyer because i love maxing out my characters to their full potential as a F2P with 5 star characters but C0 & 4 star weapons. Genshin is a gacha game, so will have to roll characters to support other characters. Shenhe, Bennett, Kazuha to support you chongyun for example. I main and triple crowned Beidou and i can still clear 36 star because of other characters to support her. So, in terms of enjoying spiral abyss or not is up to each players’ POV. It’s not ruining to community.
@@zan8063 Ruining is too loud of a word from me tbh-- I myself do enjoy the abyss quite a lot, I just, don't like the way some people are crazy over "how good the character X is" in every new patch, basically choosing "how good they are" by the abyss performance, sometimes ignoring the aspect of fun
Chongyun is alright he is just a support who lacks characters to properly support with his unique E but also they gave him damage consts like ?? He should go up a bit with shenhe in the game rewarding cryo infusions
The only issue for me is the one-upping of enemies vs. characters. They introduce a new character with new mechanics then counter these mechanics at some point through new enemies with counter mechanics and vice versa. I think they can do better than that to shake the "meta" (lol). I think this will lead to the point that damage only matters.
but that's the point. they're doing this on purpose, so people don't just stick to the old characters and pull for new ones. it doesn't work in genshin like it would in some other gacha games, because the amount of elements and character roles is limited. player most likely will already have a 'f2p' substitute for every new character genshin is currently trying to promote. take kokomi, for example. they introduced the wolf enemies and corrosion mechanic as a way to make healers more useful. they didn't fix the existing bigger problem (like the fact that some healers just take up a spot in the party that could be used by a sub dps, or they might not provide any synergy for a specific team comp), instead they created another one and slapped a new character on top of it like it's a fix. now, because we already have a lot of healers, I don't think that kokomi's sales could get boosted just by adding a new type of enemy into the abyss. what this whole thing did instead is cut down a bit on zhongli's usefulness. and here lies their main problem: because mhy clearly have no set in stone plan for how many characters there will be and which role every one of them will fill, there is no way to guarantee that the character they release now won't ruin their sales on other characters that will come out in the future - they can't balance in advance, because the meta keeps changing. and their solution to this problem? plain old power creep and stupid little changes to the spiral abyss. people don't want to pull on new banners because they already have zhongli/xiao/bennett, etc.? just show them that their old units are actually a lot less useful and much weaker in the current version of the game. gacha games never change.
@@daydihey3045 To be fair, when done right, it makes for a more versatile world and team comps. For example, literally no one would build healers prior to rifthounds. Genshin literally became Geo Impact after Zhongli buff and Geo buff. So far there literally has been no power creep. The OG 4-stars and OG 5-stars haven't been displaced in their own element. Diluc still is the most consistent DPS in game. Jean still is a great support depending on your team comp. Mona still is a great buffer. Qiqis heals still are pretty big. Powercreep isn't an issue at all concerning characters. They just need to adjust abyss in general and lower the HP threshold. Also, Xiao, Bennett, and Zhongli haven't gotten weaker at all. Benny and Zhong still are the most used units while Xiao is just like when he was released, average. The only thing that has changed is that Unga Bunga doesn't work anymore like standing in Bennetts burst while facing Kinky being a death trap or not being able to just tank everything with Zhongli.
@@doppelsotria4620 genshin is, overall, an easy game. you can clear most content with literally any unit available. no one is saying that zhongli is bad or that bennett isn't that widely used nowadays - I'm just pointing out the fact that all mhy do is add a new type of enemy/change up the abyss to make the new unit they're currently promoting seem more useful (and I used kokomi as an example of this). my point was: mhy don't plan in advance, and the way they go about doing things is typical to any other gacha game out there: hu tao can objectively out-dps diluc, zhongli loses a bit of his usefulness in certain situations, in certain team comps (itto) bennett should be swapped for gorou, etc. I myself main zhongli, xiao and bennett, and they're great, but it doesn't mean that power creep isn't happening.
at 7:30 overall 4 star usage rate will be lower because it is more likely for you to own a 4 star that you don't use in the abyss than to own a 5 star that you don't use in the abyss.
Additionally, the usage rates of spiral abyss full clears is no doubt inflated by whales who payed money on their 5* characters. No mystery why they would use them over equally viable 4* options.
I like Genshins combat so I just do the abyss for fun. Also the Abyss has some unique combination of enemies that you don't really see anywhere else and that makes it interesting.
Honestly, I play Genshin mostly because it is a very, very, incredibly beautiful game, with amazing music. I find the spiral abyss to be largely irrelevant for me, since it does not have that beautiful music or open world vistas which are the reason I play. From my perspective, adding more coin shops or something like that would make the game even more grindy and make it hard to take a break as necessary, actually detracting from the overall game. I also think that one thing Mihoyo has done very well is the constant updates that play into those factors very well. New regions are consistently both beautiful and unique to the rest of the world, the music is something they continue to focus on heavily and experiment with quite a bit. Mihoyo does a good job of keeping me interested - as long as I dont feel like I 'have' to grind for a coin shop or something, which would kill my motivation pretty quickly. I imagine that this will be the case for a lot of players that have not come to Genshin from the Gacha scene.
@@castallyourspells as someone who actually has everything 100% and hast played since release I seriously can't tell you lol. For me personally it's probably the strive to get my favourite character to theyre max potential. So I have a motivation to actually farm and grind materials and then seeing how far my Eula, Yoimiya etc have come over the last months. Also events are fun and future character keep me motivated to save primos. Probs just knowing what exciting things are coming. But overall I'm surprisingly astonished about myself for still having so much fun and motivation but do pretty much just wait for the day I finally get bored.
@@castallyourspells Honestly, I dont log on every day, and there have been periods where I didnt play for quite a while, the longest being about 5 weeks or so before the Inazuma update. But this is what I mean: there are continually updates with new content - Enkanomiya at the moment - that keep the game interesting for me. Part of it is that I dont generally explore everything right away though, theres a lot of enkanomiya left for me to do, and with most events I often dont even start them until a few days into it.
@@milkaboom that's an interesting perspective, and I'm the kind of person who likes to grind if it pays off, but the thing is the whole resin thing just makes it really boring for me. Like, 4-5 runs a day gives you like a couple of trash artifacts and I'm honestly kind of burnt out. It just feels like at this point grinding isn't cutting it because of the whole RNG thing.
as someone who is just a casual, the state of sprial abyss combined with the resin cap and artifact RNG issues definitely concerns me. I really hope Mihoyo does something about it before the playerbase gets tired out, especially with the upcoming banners being mostly reruns.
bruh if u are a casual u wouldnt care about resin cap , artifact , and spiral players . casual players are giagchads who are completely ok with going to bed with 160/160 resin . u clearly aint a casual
@@nicolasflamel4374 Casuals can 100% be worried about the state of Genshin. It's issues right now certainly are more felt hard core players the most but it's undoubtable that the state of things affects everyone. Resin cap, awful artefact rng and how the Abyss is the only getting harder while Mihoyo doesn't give us any ways to get stronger outside of whaling are issues that can be felt by everyone that is playing this game semi-consistently.
Easy fix would be to just lower the HP imo. Some enemies can have millions of HP. Cut that to anywhere between 500k and 2m, and you're good to go, skewing to lower HP for chambers with multiple enemies and vice versa for single enemy chambers. As it is, every enemy just ends up being bags of HP; a rather amateur method to inflate difficulty.
the thing is some enemy in Abyss already has that 500k HP limit, the big dog mobs has those numbers right now and look at the puny damage you're dealing if you don't whale
@@therranolleo468 u dont need to whale to 36*, but u need to grind i was getting 33* for last 2-3 months with same 8 characters (for main dps i used childe and diluc)i could have grinded more and got 36*, it just wasnt worth investing 5 hrs of my time for 50 primos
@@proles8 that’s a really crappy mind set did you even watch the video? players like this need a reason to strive to keep playing the game 36* abyss easily just to get 3-4 pulls worth of primos every 2 weeks? ok what now? there’s nothing challenging in the game to test the strength of these players teams and no rewards at all to be motivated to play the game
The fact that most tier lists boil down to how fast can they clear spiral abyss, in a game where there's no real competitive aspect speaks volumes on how this half month reset, mind numbing activity affects people's views on characters and viability.
Nah, what it shows is how little there is to do in the game. What else can you judge a unit based on? Exploration? We only get a new region like every two patches and it takes like one patch to fully explore it. Fun? Fun is subjective so you cant really ask for a tier list on fun. The overworld is so damn easy it really doesnt matter who you use, you dont even need a healer, after all, you can just use the food gadget or statue of the seven. Point is, abyss is really the only way to see a unit's viablity, because the other stuff is so easy literally everyone is good
@@aperson6562 Yeah I don’t know what this original post is on about. They act like the tier list dominates the whole game when it’s only applied to one niche gamemode that half the playerbase ignores and everyone loathes.
You summed up my feelings on Abyss nicely. The inflation of enemy health pools are my primary gripe. The paltry rewards are a close second. At this point I give the Abyss one attempt some time after it resets. Rarely I'll get full stars. Often I'll settle for 32 and move on. Sometimes I even leave at 27 because I can't be bothered. What's my incentive? 50 more primos and an artifact roll I won't use? It just isn't worth more than a token effort anymore.
As a Honkai player for the past three years, I can say that Miyoyo likes to force strict and heavy meta that heavily favors new characters that they release. So many battlesuits in honkai that are unsuable in many of the available game modes because they are phased out. Some characters that were rleased a year ago are now both power and feature creep. If you dont keep up with the meta, you're screwd. Im afraid that they are starting to do same with genshin where they are increasing the difficulty of the abbys to force players to spend more. It is a business and a gatcha game after all.
In terms of business it make sense for mihoyo to favor new characters, but for me I will try to use old character as much as possible unless I like the new ones
I feel like they needed an endgame content like elysian realm in genshin, its very fun and gives alot of rewards, i think they did the same thing in genshin with shiki taishou event. But yeah spiral abyss is really a chore, they needed to add more mechanics than "clear it the fastest" Because this isnt honkai
@@subhamsubian6677 the knowledge of building every character into 50% CR and 200% CD. And that's bare minimum. Will you build character with 2500 atk but no CR? Or character with 600 EM but only 50% CD?
I agree. Farming materials is tedious especially artifacts that keeps on giving more on the crap stats for target character you want to focus on. Also not tweaking on some of the existing characters to be used in Abyss for interesting team setup and strategy (only CN's favorite Zhongli got the first and last tweak and buff).
Aside from the bragging rights and competitiveness, the reason I also do abyss is because I needed those primogems. Yeah...sometimes I do go around 100+ retries just to get those 50 extra primos.
I think you hit the nail on the head. One thing I would love to see more of is more gimmicks in floor 10/11. Monolith defense plays completely different from the other floors, as did pre-hound corossion, and the HP pools there are still managible. Meanwhile even with hypercarries, floor 12 has felt like an awful chore for all of 2.X
I like to add in terms of Spiral Abyss difficulty, Mihoyo has already started to place in the Open World Bosses in the Spiral Abyss while the rewards remains the same since it's launched. I agree with your idea of either having a quin shop event, better rewards or something like a free constellation, else there's just no point to fully clear the abyss other than bragging rights.
I've been playing for over a year and have yet to get 36 stars. The closest I've been is 34. A challenge is great, but floor 12 tends to be an exercise in futility and frustration. I don't even bother anymore. I stop at 11.
I have been playing Genshin fro 3 months so I'm very much still a new player and I can tell you this , it was already hard enough for a new player to keep up with the world scaling let alone even doing spiral abyss and to think that every time it gets harder for old players , imagine how it is for a new player. I played Warframe for a long time before Genshin and though WF isn't a gatcha game it has lots of similarities with GI but in Genshin pretty much all the "endgame" are time trials and this will be bad down the line because it limits the type of characters and teams player and devs can do , as all you will ever want is damage, so for me the solution would be for the game to have other types of end game content besides spiral abyss.
God yeah the world scaling makes it really difficult to balance F2P. I wish the daily tasks didn't contribute to Adventure Rank; I'm doing it to farm primogems.
@@mayarosenberg1813 yes I hate that so much along with the domains why do they have to increase my AR I was trying to get some 4* artifacts for albedo any from his new set but thanks to my AR when I tried to beat the oceanid for xingqiu it was impossible with my beidou being to weak now I can't level up shit without farming level up materials and artifacts even though I could get 5*.
You can always stop at a certain AR like 45 before doing the ascension quest. And never activate it unless you have decent artifacts. I know someone who never did the ascension quest cause he just wants to enjoy the game and very comfortable with the monster's levels.
@@abdiabdi3225 enemies level isnt related to your AR, but rather to your WL (world level) which increases with your AR, but can be manually lowered - if you're having this much trouble just lower it for some time and you can raise it later on (higher WL gives you better rewards in domains/bosses/etc)
@@abdiabdi3225 I would also recommend finding higher leveled players if you need help. I don't know if the official Genshin Discord server is still full, but there are many veterans there who have nothing to do and could easily wipe out every boss in your world. The channel for NA is #na-coop, and I think if you get the role for your server there should be other coop channels for the other servers. I know this doesn't really fix the problem and it probably takes away from your experience, but I just want to mention that there are tons of players that would be happy to help. Really, we don't have much else to do as events are short/timegated, and helping others is satisfying (at least, in my experience it is).
When I first started genshin I thought it was a waifu game. I didn't care about team comps or new 5 stars that were broken if I didn't like their design/ personality. I mained physical dmg Kaeya until AR 54 with a really bad team comp only becaused I loved my characters. But when doing the spiral abyss, my team just wasn't good enough. I couldn't use Kaeya anymore because it got so hard, and now I only want to pull for Kazuha and Ganyu because I feel like it's the only way to actually do that shit. It sucks.
This is interesting bc half my genshin friend group only pulls for who they like and doesn't even do abyss. Idk why people bend over backwards for 150-300 primogems
@@Kekekekenn because there's nothing to do in endgame, what happens if you have 100% exploration in all regions? done all the quests? log on, do comms? spend resin? then log back off?
@@castallyourspells play a different game!! if you've done all the fun content then you've basically got nothing to miss out on. in my eyes, that's the point where you can play another game alongside genshin
It was such a cool benchmark to hit and it felt like I did something when I first 36 starred the Abyss. Now its just a chore filled with enemies that aren't intuitive on a speed run type challenge.
The current rotation is actually very easy with mono teams. Slotting a Kazuha into a cryo team for example is actually damage loss, because you lose the 100% uptime on the 100% cryo bonus damage Blessing of the Abyssal Moon by dealing anemo damage instead of just dealing constant cryo damage. They could make so many more types of different teams more viable by having more game changing passive effects in the Abyss.
What annoys me most is how unfair this all is on new players with the constant moving of the goalposts. If veteran players find it hard to keep up, what chance does a newbie have?
Exactly my problem! I started late and i can't spend all my time in building my characters. So it's hard to even build characters fast enough to clear abyss as f2p. By the time u've built a team for current abyss, the requirements change and u can't clear it!
I think new potion event can be a good addition to the abyss mechanic, allowing players to choose personalized buff depending on your characters and letting players choose trial characters, instead of waiting at the mercy of RNG on what buff the floor will give you. Trial characters for players who doesn't have the ideal characters to clear the floor.
Also what would be cool is if they added more floors which are a 4 man co op dungeon raid. Abyss is difficult, but fun. I'd personally would love to team up with people for it.
While I agree with most stuff, have in mind that the usage percentage comes from the people that owns the character and use it. Most people that rolled for Kokomi actually use her on Spiral Abyss (for example), so it's normal that 4*s have less usage percentage since more people own them and not all use them. Great vid nevertheless
I think all us Genshin players need to take a step back and remember that (most of us) play games for fun. Think about what you find fun in Genshin, or why you started playing in the first place. Personally, I’m not crazy about combat, so the spiral abyss is nothing but stressful to me. But I am lucky to find fun in the lore, the teapot system, or by simply running around the open world. I still do spiral abyss every rotation out of obligation and the extra primos, but if I think for too long about why I even want the primos, I won’t want them anymore.
Problem with this, is that if you are ignoring the spyral abyss you are loosing quite a lot of primogems for a f2p player, and that's not fun and is not easy to ignore either. As a f2p once you explore the entire map you can only have like.. 3 guaranteed characters? or less? so of course it hurts to not be able to get those primogems since the game literally blocks you from doing it because you didn't pay hard enough or because your luck is trash, and please dont come here like "you can clear it with all the characters". You can't clear it with just Bennet and Barbara, and I said Bennet if you were lucky enough with getting bennet actually.
Well said. The part about the top floors being designed so that the current featured 5* is needed to clear it is obvious from afar. But there is a second aspect which I think is equally important to Mihoyo. Statistical data. They get tons of data of how which characters perform against which enemies and how certain buffs affect this. This allows them to properly balance new enemies and such. Introduction of corrosion was a nice example. They introduced it in the abyss before adding rifthounds.
8:44 Isn't childe international considered the best team followed by Raiden national? Well it doesn't matter very much, since its the same story as both teams do pretty much the same thing.
Well it also depend on the situation For instance, Raiden national give more balanced single and aoe damage and have lower skill requirement. But Childe national is needed when you simply want to have massive aoe and more versatility Both of them have their own use, for me neither are better than other
Usage wise Childe’s national comp is more used than Raiden’s national comp but as for which is better than the other, it depends on the situation. They're two different flavours of the same team at their core. The two have different advantages. To name a few for Raiden National: • Procs more reactions with the addition of Overloaded, allowing for more reaction damage (although elemental auras can get messy and confusing). • Raiden's skill increases the entire team's burst damage, allowing Xiangling and Xingqiu to do more base damage. • The time needed to battery Xiangling is significantly reduced or removed completely. And Childe National: • Stronger in multi-target content due to Childe's quadratic Riptide scaling. There is also no Overloaded, so small enemies do not get launched. • Extremely high front-loaded damage thanks to Childe's Vaporized burst. Raiden can reach similar numbers, but due to the lack of an amplifying reaction she typically needs extensive boosting and constellations to do so (and even then her ceiling is lower). • A battery phase that, while longer, is not awkward to implement as it fits in perfectly with Childe's required skill downtime (unless you probably have C6 Childe). As long as everyone is performing optimally, a full Childe National rotation is only 4-5 seconds longer than a full Raiden National rotation.
Yes childe is powerful but much harder to play. Energy funneling is harder. Childe is also no resist to interruption which is problematic. But riptide is powerful and fun. He is more fun than shogun and that's what matters more
@@connorjamesthompson6614 basically childe national is for experts while raiden national is for mid tier players depending on play style i.e. more dps focus or more reaction damage for me raiden national would be my go to method easy to create a stupid amount of reactions and some really useful passives if you use raiden and xingqiu as support and xiangling as main dps. childe is better due to share power but less versetile in comparisson.
5:00 Dark Vision reward in FFBE was so unbalanced when the damage cap was still 2^31-1. Literally 1000+ players clumped over rank 1 because score capping is possible for whale and select few who has "the right STMR". But if you score *just* 1 point lower from perfect, you get the rank 1000+ reward instead of rank 2. The difference just from this very small score difference net you 80%~90% loss of the most important reward (i.e. the STMR tickets) In comparison, Spiral Abyss reward is rather fair (IMO). It allows the players who aren't regular spender (Welkin/BP up at any time) or non-meta chasers not to be stressed out not getting the full amount of bi-weekly primo hand out. Giving better/more reward actually will make these people more stressed out because the gap between those who can 36 stars them and those who can't gets bigger as the time goes. And the only way for them to get them closer/ keep the gap closer is by be the regular spender and care more about meta instead of playing the character they like.
that comparison is abit unbalanced cuz 1 has a ranking system, the other is pure single player. as someone who care to look into how much "gacha investment'' get u, adding ANYTHING pvp related into genshin (even a simple scoreboard) would kill the game instantly due to how much of a power difference whaling get you.
As a f2p who started because of the HZD crossover, genshin's endgame is really a mess. It doesn't really feel challenging like other games, it's just an endless grind for marginally better stats, that in the end barely change anything. And spiral abyss is really where it shows; since it's a straight dps check and there's not too much skill behind it
@elegies of the end I completely agree. There’s a balance between difficult and fun, Abyss is far from it. They just keep adding more and more enemies with obnoxious asf mechanics and terrible game design, constricting the team comps you can use.
@elegies of the end true I remember the times where I could clear abyss just my memorizing the enemy spawns with a lot of hilichurls and having the feel of skill expression by doing so. but nowadays every abyss is just a new enemy type with more HP and stupid dodge or invicibility frames and just one or 2 of them forcing you to spam your rotations all the time on them until they die, that´s it
spiral abbys for me its mostly about building proper teams with good synergies and taking advantage of the current blessing. thats the only way i can full star it.
I feel like something they could add to help players that want an "infinite grind" is some sort of free 1* artifact farming domain because there are some people that farm 100 white/green artifacts from the map every day to either turn into artifact exp or more With this grindable domain I'm proposing it would give the same amount of artifacts as a normal 20 resin run but all 1* which would help players grind 2 of the WORST things to run out of MORA (used for essentially everything progression wise) and artifact exp (I havent actually ran out of this yet) running out of both of these limit the growth of your accounts strength more than anything else grindable with resin (talents, exp,weapon mats, etc.) Because they affect All characters because of how artifacts are shareable between characters and mora is used for EVERYTHING
When I'm out of resin I always went to try getting more stars in the abyss, just because I want to get more primo for characters I like It's challenging, but some floors are just annoying, and I can see how they made the floors beneficial to some banner characters to make players pull for them (like giving geo and physical dmg buffs on floor 11 during albedo and Eula's rerun)
11:10 Dude, I literally pulled for albedo(despite me hoarding primos for kazuha and venti) because I didn't wanted to feel like I missed out on the new 4 star sword knowing how good it is.
Sometimes I wish Mihoyo didn't take the low Kokomi and Yoimiya sales so personally. If you look at the leaks for the 2.5 Abyss, this mob powercreep trend only seems to continue, and it's pretty much round 2 of MHY gimping shield characters with the Shadowy Husk enemies.
Speaking of Shadowy Husks... NGL its kinda shady for MHY to rerun Zhongli only to gimp him further by dropping Husks in a patch or two after his banner.
@@PsycheTrance65 Makes sense as to why they want to silence the leakers. I'm still gonna pull for him because I like him as a character, but it's nevertheless sad to see them do that. This makes me think that they'll do the same for the Raiden, Kazuha, and other reruns. Every enemy since Inazuma has been increasingly frustrating to deal with: Kairagi with their HP reset and repositioning all over the place are the LEAST bad offenders. Spectres have insane HP regen and it's hard to hit them when you're playing a melee character, the Whelps/Rifthounds have wonky hitboxes, move all over the place, and are even worse to fight against when using a melee - and there's also corrosion, which is fine, but this seems more like creating a problem to sell a solution. Oh, and the Wolflord is coming to the Abyss soon, so I can't wait to stand around waiting for it to fly around. It's not like the Abyss is a timed challenge, right?!? The Husks look even more frustrating to deal with on paper, we shall wait and see. But point still stands - I'm not a fan of the new enemies at all.
I think another way Spiral Abyss breaks Genshin is that the core design of it being a DPS race means damage damage damage all the time. Any new (or old!) character who either doesn't augment that damage (Bennett) or provide new outlets (Raiden) is immediately discarded. Oh, Ayato drops in a few weeks? If he doesn't improve my clear times in the Abyss, he's garbage.
I started playing genshin for the first time just over 6 months ago, i have extensive knowledge in rpgs and games with builds but genshin still took me probably 2 months to fully grasp. I have only ever bought the welkins every month since i started. Just yesterday was my first attempt at the spiral abyss floors 9-12. i was able to 9 star every chamber up until 11-3. I decided to try floor 12 anyway and after giving up due to it taking so long i realized i probably wont even be able to beat floor 12 for another year. it's actually insane.
My guess for the state of current abyss and newer game content in general: MHY had a year where they let Genshin be as beginner-friendly as possible to gain a large fanbase and general buzz around the game, now they can squeeze this fanbase for money by making the game progressively harder and borderline impossible for f2p. It probably will backfire in the long run with low spenders eventually dropping out, dwindling numbers of new players and their next game probably not picking up as much as it could if MHY cared about their reputation and not just bottom line
even the bottom line is going to hurt most people that spend money are low to medium max £500 if they stop coming then the entire game will just limit itself to hyperspecialisation of one character like mtash does with his luck of course. the people who could whale would not be as likely to be drown in and even they will get tired of having to deal with artifact farming.
Oh trust me, these double banners are an attempt at draining the current playerbase's wallets. It's unfair how they started doing double banners, yet the amount of primos we get is still the same. Plus, Mihoyo's idea of difficulty is a enemy running away. While you can't hit it at all. Bottom line is, Xiao rerun sales have suffered apparently. Makes sense, since Itto just powercrept him and Ganyu is a far better DPS. Just cause you put out 4 banners instead of 2, doesn't mean your income will double.
Im f2p and my experience now is basically the same as it was a year ago. Everything feels the same difficulty so I can't say I agree. Do tell me more tho!
@@RKNancy Consider this: There have only been 2 patches that mihoyo released from 1.0 to 2.4 that had 2 reruns. 1.4 and 2.2 They had to make double banners happen after a while because otherwise, players would have probably needed to wait for a rerun for 1yr+ after Sumeru.
@@szo82 Which honestly, I think would have been the more optimal way for Mihoyo to rake in a bigger income. Having reruns be few and far between builds scarcity. That then encourages people to spend more as they'll have a limited amount of time to get said character, constellations, & weapon before we may never see them again (or it'll be a very long time until we do so). By doing dual running reruns, people aren't going to be as likely to pull, as there's now a higher chance of that character getting a rerun in the near future. So to avoid being stretched thin, they save for the next rerun.
I just finished my first clear of abyss on floor 12 a few hours ago. I would say I’m quite proud as a f2p, but honestly, the stress it gave me even months ago trying to clear it was honestly not worthy it. Floors 9-10 are somewhat accessible, but floors 11-12 is just pure hell.
They abyss is in an awkward spot at the moment. For veteran players, even the f2p(enviosity for example), spiral abyss is moderately annoying to an absolute joke depending on investment since players are always pulling new units and grinding artifacts. The people who grind the game to this extent are often more vocal as they are more passionate about the game, which is why you will often hear about the game being too easy. This leads to the abyss getting harder since the devs want to give the endgame players something to do. For a new player, however, reaching the current abyss dps checks is very difficult, though it is possible to 36 abyss as seen in various theorycrafters making new accounts to see how fast they can do it, with the fastest time being 52 days. The problem is that casual players want to play abyss to, but it is soul crushingly hard unless you have grinder tirelessly for artifacts and have a phd in game mechanics such as elemental gauge, poise and icd, etc. Which leaves the tryhards nothing to do too soon, and the casuals an extreme hard task. I am a veteran dolphin player but was able to 36 the abyss f2p since 1.3 but I sold my soul to the game since the very beginning and there are many more like me, the game is simply too easy once you dive into it a bit. I also have friends that have been playing the same time as me but don’t religiously grind and aren’t particularly fond of reading spreadsheets, thus they find abyss impossible. In conclusion, I think mihoyo needs to make another abyss style part of the game but the floors are endless and they just keep upping the stats of the monsters with a reward for reaching a certain tier, like a name card or perhaps an outfit or something to reward the player for the dedication to the game.
It's getting numerically harder which is almost never fun. Genshin Impact even with all those changes isn't hard and even if they make the DPS checks even tighter the game still wont be hard. They have to give us challenging mechanics, not this lazy thing with increasing numbers.
You could do so, so much with abyss if each rotation reset literally every floor. You can easily scale the difficulty of the abyss to the world level of the player. If it is too hard, then the player can manually lower the world level in order to make it easier More importantly, it will allow players to full clear abyss and get all the rewards regardless of a player's level of investment. At that point, they can add leaderboards that provide information to everyone. Who cleared the abyss fastest under 'X' world level? What comps did they use? Did they have to run it multiple times? What were their builds? etc. There is literally no downside to these leaderboards. This allows whales to compete and flex on other players, and it provides f2ps and dolphins a sort of guide as to what units are most popular at the moment. They could even go so far as to show the fastest clear times of each character, that way players can see just how far their favorite character is being pushed and and strive to build those comps that they see.. AND it's a money maker for MHY. It's baffling to me that they don't make changes like this Also please for f sake buff the rewards we get. This would happen naturally if more than just floor 9-12 reset per rotation. Even if floors 1-8 only reset once per patch it'd be a night and day difference. 1200 more primos per patch from abyss alone and waaay more mora/leveling mats
The problem with genshin spiral abyss is the "DPS check." Periodt. They should make end game content more like the hypostasis event where the hypostasis had cooler, stronger, different abilities. This made players actually change the way they play and think of mechanics instead of just a Vaporize/Melt comp lol. Similarly with the first Dragonspine event where you had to use the red crystals to break the barrier or hide behind the barrier from the snowstorm attack. Mechanical changes that makes you think about the game is what makes it fun. During that event, Amber was actually viable because she was the only character who can set up before starting the event.
That won't be a solution either... There will be some niche characters that perform unexceptionally well but not all players have it. For example when they introduced abyss herald on abyss ganyu can break the shield easily meanwhile other characters have to suffer a very long skill cd and losing so much time.
Ive always said artifact dungeons should have been given the MMO treatment. Make them actually dungeons, mobs and bosses, and at the end you get artifacts, and have it cost no Resin. The weekly bosses should have been raid style fights. The spiral abyss giving a stella fortuna at the end would be awesome and valuable.
I'm a week 1 player and I agree. I started out as f2p and I first cleared floor 12 just after two months, with teams consisting of only 4* characters with an exception of Klee and Zhongli. I first got 36* 4-5 months after I started playing but this time I had 5 5* characters, who were geared up at least decently. Later on in the game I became a dolphin as I got a job and became financially independent. So I started buying Welkin and BP and even swiped a bit to get certain characters and/or weapons(Raiden C2, Staff of Homa etc). But since 2.2, abyss has become exponentially harder even though I've so many built units and teams. I last 36* the abyss in 2.1, after that I couldn't get more than 35*. Eventually I stopped trying hard and decided that I'll only attempt the abyss only once. Since I've got so many good characters, I cheese through floor 9-11 and get 6* in 12 easily, anything above that on 12 is bonus to me now. I am not bothered to perfect my artifacts or team rotations to get 50 primos. It's become a biweekly chore.
I also think the recent potions event was such a big step in the wrong direction since its mechanics completely alienates new/low ar players and those who dont build charas super strong.
I’m not even low AR (49) and it still alienated me, as have most of the blue door events (the dungeon one was fun but then I got stuck on the second stage). I heard from a friend that the 3rd day of this even was easier and I managed to complete it, but it was 1.5 hours of work to get a measly 60 primos. Couldn’t complete the other days.
I always think that about those events where the minimum mob level is 70!.. and to actually get most of the rewards you will need to fight the 90+ mobs. I can thankfully beat those enemies easley but what about low level players? They don't have the slightest chance at getting any rewards and therefore pretty much no reason at all for participating. It has been a little better recently with the trial character but it's still sad many players are forced to miss out..
@@mixolydia3309 I'm AR 51 and didnt even get any primos cuz I only have 2 kinda well built charecters (Ayaka and Hu tao) and some teammates with random artifats with ok stats slapped on them. I'm goddam AR 51 and I still use a lvl 50 kaya in the abyss and I only just got to the corridor. I only got 1 star on the last floor of 9.
It doesn't just alienate low AR players. I could barely do it (only silver medals on the easiest mode) and I'm AR56. At some point the devs need to decide whether they want to make this game for elite epeen wankers or for normal people. Then they need to exclusively cater to that group and cash out the group they abandoned. There is no way to make content that works for both groups because their needs are polar opposites.
They should add 1 vs 1 pvp arenas. Choose 1 character, no food, and fight. Can also have level gates for this. ie. a pool for each 10-20 levels. This way you can also motivate players to have some units they don't regularly use at level 20 or 40 for these challenges.
I totally agree with your sentiments about abyss. Especially floor 12, it is ridiculous how much HP each floor has and the time we have to complete it doesn't change..
I have been playing this game for over a year, and I have a few great characters " Hu Tao, Ayaka, Albedo, venti, hell, I have a C3 mona, yet... I have not once 36☆ the abyss (only 29-31☆ and I don't even bother doing 12-3 anymore) I'm willing to admit that I am not the greatest when it comes to mechanics but damn...
despite having Bennett, Zhongli and Kazuha, I'm barely able to clear floor 12 (like, 0-star clear). Sometimes it even depends on the moon buffs. Edit: I'm F2P
What teams do you usually run them in? 🤔 Generally speaking, having all three already boosts your account's capability by a lot. Then again, Abyss is already a pain (I dread the 2.4 Abyss, I keep hearing rumors that they'll add the Wolflord, like WTF) so I won't fault you for not retrying a lot for the stars. I gave up at 32* lol
I really hope in terms of endgame content, we get something like honkai's elysium realm, where the game turns into a repeating domain , that acts like a rogue like, that gives more rewards, the more difficultly you go through
There is a LOT of room for improvement, and a lot of good ideas they can add to the game, but this game caters too much to the casual players, I have seen a lot of casuals complain that they can't get high scores on the potions event... and that they don't want more events like it...
NO. ELYSIAN REALM IS FUCKING TERRIBLE. This game is and should always remain a game for non hardcore players. If you are a hardcore player go find a game that caters to you instead of trying to ruin this one.
@@GeorgeMonet uh, I mean, it can do both??? I find the elysium realm quite fun, though it may not be everyone's cup of tea, there could just be extra end game content for people who want it, and the non hardcore people can just not play it, the rewards for the gameode could just be a lot of mora, so that it isn't forced to non hard-core players to play it. Saying the elysium realm is terrible is uhh, well some people like it, and im one of them, playing rogue likes is pretty aite idea for endgame content cuz it's challenging and repeatable
![PVP SPIRAL ABYSS: WHALE vs WHALE | Genshin Championship Tournament [ENGC]](/img/n.gif)
The stars obtained in the abyss can be used as currency for let’s say, exclusive weapons, weapon refinements or your idea of Stella fortuna for any character. I think that can be a good way to motivate players to clear the spiral abyss.
Honestly, the idea of making events challenging and then using the Abyss as a way for you to get event-materials after teh fact sounds interesting. The materials could rotate.
The thing is, if you only include 'motivation' to clear the abyss without either making the difficulty more reasonable (by spreading the spire across more floors for example) or giving players more tools to upgrade their characters without whaling and/or make character synergy matter more than plain whaling, all you have actually done is add yet more rewards for whales, who are the people who need them the least. "Git gud" only goes so far if it's essentially near impossible to git gud ENOUGH without spending a massive amount of $$$$$.
Dont worry new abbys coop is coming
WAIT THAT'S BRILLIANT.
@@DR...951 So what?
I think the Genshin rewards overall need a bit of an overhaul, the adventure rank rewards after 55 are so disproportionate to how long it takes to advance as well
Yeah, I'm locked in at wl6 ar50 due to the powercreep, and even at this level we're still getting the shards for daily comms, low probability on highest level domains (I get 1 gold talent book every 4-5 runs in talent domains), and piddly gem drops from world bosses, not to mention how even the hero's guide becomes basically ineffective after level 50. Like, the grind is so artificially protracted because the rewards scaling is so horrible.
the rewards are a literal slap to the face
“oh? you are AR 100? here, 2 acquaint fates and 12 fowl!”
Everything about the endgame feels underdeveloped. World levels past 6 do almost nothing for rewards and instead just scales up enemy levels. AR leveling is barely meaningful past 45 and completely meaningless past 55. There are no domains past AR45, and even if there were some, the AR55 ones would likely be extremely difficult and basically unplayable if you wanted to farm them.
Plus, for the Spiral Abyss: I've been playing since the second Zhongli banner and I still feel like I'm behind. I'm grinding too, running artifact routes, completing all quests, etc. But it feels like I'm never going to be able to 36 star the Abyss.
At this point, I've stopped trying to get to 12-3 like I used to. I go as far in as possible until I get annoyed. Then I just ignore it until the reset.
Hopefully getting Ganyu will change that for me. But I'm not sure.
@@mattgriffin0231 you don’t have to complete it if it annoys you man, Genshin is a flawed game
if you remove the amazing music, lore, character designs and world design then all you have left is a game that is so damn underdeveloped and flawed with endgame content that sucks and nothing to do all day after completing the available quests and events
@@bozosinc.6252 who told you to play Genshin 24/7? TH-cam REALLLY loves trying to turn this into an MMO
its not and never will be.
I've seen a few others mention this, but in addition to better rewards for motivation--they should get rid of the timed aspect of the spiral abyss. Rather than being a ridiculous DPS check, make it a survival based trial that challenges not only your damage but also your defenses.
Yup
It could be similar to mobs arena on minecraft, the enemies start out pretty easy to handle but later they level up, multiply and grow stronger
I don't want to get one tapped by fatui punchers no thanks :D
right? the arena event with xinyan was so much better
they did this with the protect the tower sort of floors but that just makes it so u really could only clear it with characters that could help gather the enemies together like venti/kazuha/sucrose since 3 stars was based on how high the hp of the tower was after the enemies were all defeated. Something with a survival also could also be cheesed by tons of dmg. As they say, the best defense sometimes is the best offense.
The whole point of making gameplay hard is to make it more fun and challenging. The problem with genshin is that they're not making it fun at all. They're making it straight up annoying.
What they're giving us is stupid coward enemies who just run away or teleport away instead of fighting us. Which is not fun by any means. What they should've gave us is enemies that are hard to fight but you could counter them using strategies. Not just pray for the RNG to be on your side, so that the enemies don't teleport at the wrong time.
This. It's pretty much a given to keep retrying just to get a good AI RNG in order to get 36 stars. It's no fun at all, just straight up annoying af.
To the point where I'm thinking if all that hard work is even worth the extra 50 primos.
And there's people who complain when a beta enemy is nerfed, jesus.
for real! it feels like the only way to beat so many of these new mobs is with a freeze comp, which is so dumb & rules out so many good team comps for people whose characters don't have flawless stats. spiral abyss is supposed to be a dps check, but they're just turning it into a game of chase.
Not gonna lie , you don't want them to have annoying mechanics, so only thing that can be done is increase the HP , which is essentially what mihoyo is doing , yet people are complaining about it becoming a DPS check ....
@@manjunath414 a single rifthound is worth a million hp on floor 12-3 and it runs around all the place away from you. It's not just hp so you are just wrong
The first abyss is a joke compared to the current abyss: the DPS requirement now is insane, the only goal of new monster design and abyss buff is to make old five star characters suffer. Yet the measly rewards STAY, THE, SAME
yo don't underestimate the first abyss bro
that shit was cryo hell
condensed ice disorder, cryo claw aura, falling icicles non stop
I still have nightmares about it
@@RogerNbr IKR. I didn't even beat 12-1 that time it was a pain for me since xiangling was the only pyro char that I have built that time.
@@RogerNbr Healers back then were barbara, bennett, qiqi and jean. Most people don't use bennett back then, a lot don't have qiqi and jean. Barbara was given to everyone and it's the worst healer for the abyss at the time. I still have nightmares of getting freeze locked when trying to heal
the first was quite serious tho (esp since few players had good artis). but the second one and so on were much easier yea
And noone had built characters back then. Whales were AR 40-45 with maybe 1 or 2 semi built characters.
The more issue for me is the increasing amount of enemies with so much I-frames. Mihoyo loves to create enemies that just stalls and run around instead of fighting you. They are not fun to fight at all.
The irony is that it wouldn’t be a problem if the Abyss wasn’t time-based.
Exactly why I find it annoying whenever they put bosses in abyss
And the AI is also so bad in this game. Sometimes the enemies just stand there and don't attack you for some reason.
This is it fam...
I've been struggling to 3 star floor 12-1 because those rift hounds run around the map and by i catch up, my burst is on cool down and now i need to build energy whilst still chasing after that annoying dog..
The Maguu Kenki was similar in a sense that it would teleport to the worst place possible and sometimes it teleported at the worst time possible ruining your rotation forcing you to have to build up energy again while still chasing it down
@@purp1e200 *flashbacks to the old 12-3 with the ruin doritos*
God that 12-3 was just full on headache. Enemy ai was so random you had to pray that rng gods were in your favour and have them group up together for you to burst them down or else have fun trying to chase them around while losing time
What if they added a "never ending battle mode" where there is no time limit, just waves of increasingly difficult enemies. Then enemies like rifthounds, magu kenki, etc aren't as much as a pain cuz no time limit. You gain stars by surviving longer and defeating more waves, and the stars are spent on rewards like fragile resin, reskins, teapot decor, 4star constellations, and super expensive 5 star cons. The 5 star cons, would have to have like a one per character limit, so that Mihoyo could still make money, but rewards like these could actually give people longterm things to grind for. Not only that, but they could add a leaderboard system so that whales could flex all they want, and have something to compete with one another for. They could even add a content creator program, where creators could make their own Abyss tournaments and have their fans participate. It would be basically endless content for Genshin and I think it would do wonders for it's longevity.
mihoyo should employ you 😭
YEEEEESSSSS
My man you just fixed a whole end game here
@@thinkingphoenix4213 Thanks :). I just hope they make some changes soon. When the abyss was easier, my characters weren't yet properly geared. Now that they are, the content has gotten so much harder, but the overworld is so easy, and now I'm in a weird spot. I'm F2P so far, and only plan to spend on cosmetics, but the current abyss just doesn't feel worth it anymore which sucks.
I love this idea this is the exact reason why I loved the Inazuma domain event
one thing i would say is that there is a grind to get your characters stronger. its from farming artifacts but its not propotional to effort just to luck
I guess he means after endgame, yes, at endgame you should already have near optimal artifacts (cause optimal is impossible due to rng lmao) and then... That's it, you don't have anything else after obtaining good artifacts
@@elstrangeenemy887 not to mention the gameplay required to clear the Abyss once you have optimal artifacts is pretty simple as there is such a large range of damage you can get from constellations and better weapons. I can’t begin to imagine how bored the whales are since they’ve just been stomping through abyss every single time and never really have to strain their gameplay mechanics until a crazy event comes around
@@caseyimiller yeah I’m glad I’m not a whale, I think buying constellations is a waste, all you need is c0 for most 5 stars.
While it's true that there's a lot of luck involved in getting good artifacts, it is still somewhat proportional to effort. It's just a matter of probabilities: The more artifacts you farm for, the higher your chance of getting a good one. It's possible to be extremely unlucky or extremely lucky, but for the average player, grinding artifacts for a long time will give you great results. The problem is that a lot of people find the process boring - understandably so - and therefore don't farm artifacts in an efficient way. You really don't need many 5 star characters to 36* abyss as long as you truly commit to the artifact grind.
@@Akai93 Yeah, I am someone who enjoys doing resource collection and management for fun; so I have nearly all my characters built at this point. (Not fully maxed out to their potential, but built enough that I can use them in the open world without them getting one shot) So this is fun for me, but I understand this not being fun for those who don’t want to have to be so patient for these things in a game.
Abyss having a timer while continuously introduce enemies that takes longer to kill is very disappointing.
Most of them were simply spam buttons and hope everything dies before the timer ends, there wasn't any challenges in gameplay,
The combat now just boils down to a numbers game, and that is an unhealthy direction if it keeps going for the long term. They could instead introduce innovative challanges with counter mechanics, rather than counter 5-star characters like the kokomi example in the video.
Literally need to use every single one of your character's skill and burst every 5 seconds
And now it's just about raising your numbers and having shields or getting stunlocked by enemies with super armor and element spam. Good god I hate the direction it's going just to lock out f2p from getting primogems.
This is the reason why hoyo is very confuse on what they should do next. There are someone that says abbys is like a cake and there are someone that has skill issue and blame that it is hard and key spamming 😂🤣
@@Winter-bt3os People with lucky strong artifacts and multiple strong 5 stars would find it easy, and those without would find it harder. that's about it.
If their account couldn't reach the dps check it is impossible to get all primos in abyss due to the timer no matter how skills the player is or how perfect their rotation is.
I feel like having skins exclusive to the spiral abyss, that you need to buy with the stars would be a powerful motivator, or having the option to buy constellations for four stars the way they let you in the shop.
An abyss shop would be super interesting.
Good idea, character skins who 36 stars gets special skins per version
I would take a name card or a teapot board at this point.
Sounds interesting. Additional motivator is definitively necessary. I went to 12-3 for the achievement and the name card that came with it (only 3/9 stars since I don't have enough DPS power nor enough characters to make 2 good teams). Didn't have the motivation to try floor 12 ever since.
an event shop with coins to buy skins would literally make me play abbys 24/7 fck the story Im not finding my sister no more I want maid venti
My only problem with abyss is that the difficulty increasing since release but the reward stay the same
They should have kept the difficulty of 12 floor the same but at 13-15 floor to suit the veteran if they want to ramp up the difficulty, it is so unfair especially for the newer player with less resource
Exactly! They should've just added more floors.
The abyss esp Floor 12 is not meant for newer players ... and u dont really lose anything by not doing it .. like at all ...
Its almost as if its designed to be that way
And also most ppl who play this game ... aren't very good at the game at all soo .. there's also that
@@Inquisite1031 You shouldn't speak facts, people hate that in recent years. I met this new player who has been playing for a month and complained how Abyss is too hard.........I was like really? Of course it will be too hard for you, go farm dungeons and work on your story mode yo.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483 the problem being that making a character good relies on artifact rng and resin that depletes quickly when you do play. For people who do not farm everyday, Spiral Abyss getting harder and harder makes it way more difficult for players to catch up. While in the same time, not increasing the difficulty of spiral abyss makes the hardcore players bored. Character progression in Genshin isn't as predictable or as fair as other single player games.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483 but of course your superiority complex has to get in the way of all sense of reasoning
My biggest issue with it is that it's ALWAYS time limited. Not only is it's basically a DPS check but it's also the reason the other classes of characters are considered irrelevant, atleast for abyss.
whenever we get a monolith people complain, but I think the larger reason is that there isn't really any mid-combat resource limiter
In most traditional RPGs you'd run out of mana after a certain time so you'd have to manage it more effectively. Genshin doesn't have mana which makes it easier for the casual audience, but at the cost of it being a potential endgame challenge to work with
if it was more survivability focused than dps check, healers and defensive characters in general would be in higher demand ALONGSIDE dps
@@proles8 people only complained about the earlier monolith floors and the main reason for that were the electro and hydro debuffs you got, it made using skills and burst really hard to use which made cc really difficult, this abyss has a monolith and no one is complaining about that the main complaint I always hear about is rifthounds
@@A-AdityaFrancis fair enough
@@tomdata3340 True. Imagine if some floors required your team in a certain amount of health to gain stars. Not just the timed ones.
I agree with this video. I'm F2P and since I started playing I was grinding to strengthen my characters so that I could at least 6 star abyss floor 12. But then the difficulty started to ramp up and the enemies are, like you said, only properly dealt with by the recent 5 star released. I was really looking forward to participating in the last floors of the abyss but now I don't get a sense of fulfillment anymore because I do all THAT effort just for miniscule rewards. It's not worth it anymore. On a good day I'll 9 star floor 11 and just stop there because the struggle at floor 12 and gaining only 50 primos per 3 star is really not worth it.
I’m a veteran player who is a very low spender (5 dollars every few months for welkin) and my luck has been very good since the start of the game; but even I have given up on 12 stars at this point. It’s just not worth it, I just finish floor 11 and dip.
Like hours of hours worth retry , and months wasted resin , not even 1 FCKNG PULL!?
As a f2p ar57, I think 33 stars is manageable considering I can do it even with bad card buffs on floor 12. Getting those 3 stars in 12-3 is where it's definitely not worth the time and effort. Although, I still do it for the primos.
fellow F2P here, been playing since first albedo banner, currently 33* in abyss for last 3 rotations, but the way its getting harder is awful, it took me several hours and multiple rage quits to get 6th star on floor 12
f2p, playing since 1.4, i can 6star floor 11, yey me
Remove the time constraints, and suddenly the abyss becomes a bearable challenge for even less experienced players. I loathe time-based dps checks.
Me toooooo 😭
Same, Abyss wouldn't be so frustrating if it didn't have time constraints
wouldn't that take away the challenge though?
@@amyyhongg it is literally unplayable as a newer/weaker player
@@amyyhongg for whale and experiened player yeah but for those with trash artifacts and few characters it's a different story
it's actually getting harder and harder to do less than 36 stars too, I've always been satisfied with just 33 without stressing over getting the last 3, but that bar is also getting harder. I wouldn't mind if enemies were designed to be challenging and not a giant waste of time, but they're clearly designed to just waste time and it's very annoying
That labyrinth warriors was the perfect template for an endless dungeon, just add an rng on the rooms and baam, there u have
Have different environments as well. The wooden interior got pretty boring very quickly.
This game and company is full of this, they make or copy something good but don't understand it, don't understand what makes it good, and just keep failing, making a boring game, when it could be much better...
No it was shit. I hated it. Way too close to the ELysian Realm in Honkai IMpact that I also hate.
It's an overly long empty experience with no fun to be had.
The game's strength is not it's combat. It is the exploration.
@@GeorgeMonet and how tf emd game in a rpg can be made with exploration?
@@GeorgeMonet how are you spewing so much bullshit with so much confidence?
I feel like the main issue with spiral abyss is that you need to speedrun every floor rifthounds are not hard to beat they're just annoying because they cause you to lose time. If they made it more like the energy amplifier event and focused more on survivability rather than speedrunning abyss would get a lot better
exactly my point. Come at me , kill me and pummel me to oblivion.
I love the energy amplifier cause its all about survivability and managing rotations.
@@abhiss6705 it will even make healers more useful
Exactly, it's like you're fighting mosquitos that can only bite you and then run away after 1 second, they are not hard to kill, they don't hurt that much, but you're asking me to speedrun killing them when they're just flying around while we can't hit them at all? That's like asking a fish to snipe down a bird
Lol try the new abyss it's great
@@A-AdityaFrancis yeah I love the new one rn lol easily get 9* from floor 9-11 with lvl 80 party
As a newer player (joined during the raiden banner) I see the spiral abyss getting harder and harder while building characters takes a lot of time.
It's been 5 months and I only have 2 characters decently built (with artifacts that are decent at best).
When I see rift hounds with more than a million hp I just feel like I'm never gonna be able complete it let alone reach floor 12.
I like a good challenge and the recent events have delivered but the abyss just keeps on getting harder just because it can.
For me to get a full abyss clear, it took me 4 and main issue was that my characters were not lvl 89. (supports can stay low lvl)
The AR is also a issue for any new player and i dont think Imazuma gives that much tho.
But you do need 2 characters to dps and different elements to be able to deal with higher AR bosses.
@@Bullminator thats old abyss strat, the way it is now supports needs more investment to reach the DPS check
I started on Kokomi's banner but Ig I got somewhat lucky in artifacts so all my characters are above average in build (my Xiao artifacts, though, I think are pretty great). I've cleared 12-2 but didn't get any stars. I play on mobile, so it's nearly impossible to clear the content unless I can ultra-up the DPS of my characters, since there's always DPS loss when I click on the wrong character or my phone does't register my finger and the character rushes to the wrong way, etc.
@@Grim_Bud Yeah it does for a all star clean. But you can clear floor 12 with not fully build team.
Bruh I feel this on a spiritual level. I’ve been hard grinding this game, joined at the end of Eula banner, got myself to AR49 now and still widely struggle with spiral abyss. With a Eula based and Xiao based team I find that some of the dungeons are very difficult just based on my limited variety of teams and my character levels. But I’d rather be on this side of things than being able to easily 36star and just sit and wait for another 2 weeks for easy primo gems. What I would prefer is the difficulty for stage 12 doesn’t scale up over time, but rather the trial goes up to say stage 16 and those who normally easily clear would have those to fight for the max rewards
12:23 I like the idea of getting a free 4* stella fortuna as a reward for 36 star-ring the abyss. It would be amazing if there would also be a exchange shop were you could trade three 4* abyss stellla fortunas for one 5* abyss stella fortuna
thats way too generous for mihoyo
@@pexches maybe only for standard banner 5*?
8:1 or beyond might be a more realistic cost. Similar to how you get a minimum of eight 4-stars otw to hard pity.
@@pexches honestly. Even if it weren't a stella fortuna, at least give us a full 10-pull for 36*. Like... 600 primos won't even get u 4 pulls. Wtf am i gonna do with 3 pulls? Getting 10 pulls every 2 weeks seems more accessible and makes getting 5* easier
The funny thing is the primos you got back then for clearing floors 9-12 were 300 each which means that miHoYo actually nerfed the reward for "reasons".
But I think we all know what that reason is
The Stellar Fortuna reward would be amazing. Imagine if it was every 72 accumulated stars (so you don't have to 36 2 consecutive abyss' but just need to TOTAL 72 stars) that you would receive one. Even the more casual audience that doesn't have end game grinded accounts could still have something to look forward too.
They won't do that because they'll lose sales.
The fact that they care about the little sales they would lose compared to what they already make is just insane. Greedy company.
@@SakuroAlex Fair enough. But if they were to add Stellar Fortuna, I'd agree if it were for 4* characters but definitely not 5* characters because it kills their rarity. Honestly, from a criticism point of view, this addition kills the gacha system so it won't happen, but it's a nice addition.
@@theunluckydude5458 They can do something like limiting the 5* constellation to c1 or c2 and having the character in the first place. Other games do stuff like that(PGR). Might even motivate more people to whale since they "only" need 4 more copies for c6.
@@theunluckydude5458 it doesn't kill the gacha system at all. If you're only able to use it once per character. Or make it a 100-200 stars requirement.
I agree with vars reward system.
Imagine wanting to get the last star in the abyss floor 12 in exchange of 50 primogems.
The sanity and time is not worth it
Exactly, I play through a single time and if I only get to 12-1 or 12-2 then so be it. I don't even bother to try again.
You get more primogems just from doing your daily commissions
I play Spiral Abyss almost solely for the primogem rewards but floor 12 especially feels like such a harsh DPS check that it just doesn't feel worth it.
Personally, I just go through floor 12 without really caring if I can 9* it. I know how strong or weak my characters are, and I'll take what I can get. I'd take 100 primos and call it a wrap
@@reed3863 same here i just try once,with my best team comp if i dont get 9 stars its ok.
I'll take my 3 stars on floor 12 and call it a day,
@@reed3863 I ironic part is I ignore the daily login rewards which give 60 primos and then proceed to waste 1 hr clearing the new floor 12.
Hell I even ditch some web events
I just play it once and no matter how many stars I get, I just don't go back to it ever again until the reset. Kind of like daily comms because let's face it, spiral abyss isn't really an enjoyable activity to destress with
As someone who started playing 2 months ago (and mains Ningguang) I pretty much settled with floor 12 being something I'll never see. It's fine, whales need something to do too, but at the same time it's kinda sad xD
Bruh you're only 2 months in, way too early to say you'll never even see F12 lul. Unless you whale, 36* is a more long term goal, took me 4 months without spending any money, and that was pre 2.0.
You can get 3 stars in all floors with F2P characters only
There's really 2 things left once you've levelled your character/weapon/talents and that's artifacts and the Spiral Abyss.
Bit of a problem since artifacts are MASSIVELY RNG based and the Abyss does give pretty mediocre rewards.
It's gonna be more of a pain point as time goes on, both need some tweaking to keep the game going in the long run.
No kidding about the RNG. I have been farming the Momoji-Dyed Court domain since the day it came out months ago and I still do not have a single decent set of either artifact type.
2 problems I hate the most about Spirals are the system and the margin, EVERY SINGLE SPIRAL is a DPS check, all of them are just time-based trial that tests how big of numbers you can produce in the fastest time (except the newest one in 2.3, but even that is only 1 stage of 12 that you need to clear from all 4 floors), the best u can do is CC your opponent in the center and burst their shit, which for many newer players are near impossible and is still a pain for mid-late game F2P if the Abyss enemy comp doesn't match your raised roster not to mention the buffs they give you in Abyss IS SHIT compared to the enemy lineup
next is the margin between overworld bosses and Spiral 12 bosses, way too big with little to no improvement on gameplay, they simply just inflate the HP numbers on the bosses and call it a day, they don't add any new move pool to test your skills, no new mechanic to learn, just bigger HP for DPS check
and I do agree with the shit as fuck reward system that Abyss has for its difficulty, a couple of moras (which will be gone in like 5 mins) and a few primos are not even enough to justify the pain. other gacha game's form of spiral Abyss (late game) would have long term shit to grind for, FFS add a shop in Spiral that gets you Spiral weapons or Artifacts that you can grind for to upgrade your characters (like CounterSide/Brave Frontier), or hell even add a recruitable character that you can obtain by grinding and spending spiral abyss points (like Eternals/Evokers in GBF)
abyss exclusive currency for abyss exclusive weapons and characters? sounds like a good motivation for me
@@yogandi8922 Kinda like the universal mirage items in honkai then...
Clearing Spirals abyss is not fun at all. Your clear time is entirely depend on the RNG of the mob (the wolf and boss RNG).
So even if you cleared it with 36 stars, it does not feel fulfilling at all because it feels like you win because you are lucky this time and the game let you win, not because of your skill.
i agree, its insanely hard as someone who isn't even completely f2p (i buy welkin every month and sometimes the battle pass, when i can afford it)... i have a lot of characters which are considered meta, and yet it's still impossible for me to pass the last floor... unless you have flawless builds, i don't know how you can do it :/
"EVERY SINGLE SPIRAL is a DPS check" this simply isn't true. we've had couple of monolith defense levels that require strategies
Mihoyo could implement "tier" on the spiral abyss, much like Honkai.
So every new spiral abyss, if you perform better the previous one, the spiral abyss gets increased in difficulty and rewards.
So new player can clear it while veteran can strive to get better.
i dont think mihoyo really even intended for player to play abyss at this rate. they just added it as a sort of filler content. There had been 0 updates to how abyss works, 0 changes to abyss mechanics outside of abyss benediction , there has been 0 abyss related events
basically i dont think mihoyo pay attention to abyss much , its just there because mihoyo knows whales with no skill will be happy to pay money to clear it and then go on YT to pander to f2ps with no skill lol
Yup, I feel like mihoyo is just throwing new enemies to the abyss whatsoever
@@Ben-vg6ox It's pretty much just something for whales to flex their damage on while keeping the rest of the game manageable; the rewards are low so there's not much that's missed out on by casual players
Spiral is just the closest thing to challenging since most of the game is not geared towards a grand challenge like hardcores want
@@Ben-vg6ox ironically they do this on their other game (honkai). it's like they took out all the enjoyable parts of honkai and just doubled all the annoying parts.
abyss here actually reminds of the "blockade" in honkai - i whaled in honkai and still struggled to clear more than one level of that. even the abyss there was unenjoyable, it was just about how many gacha weapons and limited-run artifacts ("stigmata", which had to be pulled via gacha or weeks of farming), because you were ranked against other players (rewards scaled accordingly). but the rest of the content was too easy. so i ended up quitting.
An Abyss Shop, it would be just SO good. The higher the floor you clear the higher the points you get, which you can use on the shop that resets with the abyss. And it doesnt need to give you more primos or fates, just ascension materials would be good enough. Oh, and billets, wouldnt it be better if you had the option to buy them? Even if it were just 1 or 2 each month.
Once you start doing the abyss it severely trivializes everything outside of it. As soon as you can match the DPS check in the abyss, everything outside it will die just by you breathing. Exploring became less interesting to me when no enemy was a threat.
I tried spiral abyss floor 9 again a few weeks after giving up on floor 11. It was much easier than when I had first tried it and it was actually FUN. And REFRESHING. I didn’t need to fight for my literal life to beat the floor unlike with floor 11 or god forbid 12, and it felt nice and enjoyable, without being too easy either. That’s the kind of experience the spiral abyss should be providing, and if they want to make floors really challenging for stronger players they should make it more strategy based instead of using it to advertise the current banner or introducing enemies that are just _painstaking_ to fight and nothing more. And the primos are so unrewarding, too, for something that’s supposed to motivate players to pull for the latest 5 star.
The abyss shouldnt be easy enough to clear on my first try. I enjoy test running each floor and building a strategy and team comp specifically suited to this floor. At the same time the way they try to make the enemies harder is just annoying. There is strategy in abyss still. If the enemy moves too much and u cnt hit it, than freeze it. If its attacks are annoying then stun lock it with overload. Many enemies can be beaten by using crystalize to replace a healer slot for a more damaging character to fit more dps. Expecting to use ur one favorite character everywhere would ruin the entire point of collecting and mismatching characters. The specific abyss buff typically benefit a few other characters as well, most characters arent that unique
Honestly, Genshin has this thing going on where they drop an Event which makes me wish they'd add it permanently as a Game Mode.
Like, Windtrace currently. Or the Labyrinth Warriors Event. Or even Theater Mechanicus.
They make all this fun stuff that they could rotate on a bimonthly schedule or something. But unfortunately they keep locking them behind timed gates.
It's kind of frustrating that Spiral Abyss is the only option we have for stuff near the end, but it becoming less fun with each reset.
I really hope they expand at some point.
part of it is because of the oh so holy mobile player base who for some reason are the reason for all the playerbase to suffer and lag behind because we cant add permnanent content because the mobile base wouldnt be able to keep up in storage. Even though, multi layered games exist and should be the case for genshin, it sucks that at least PC and ps players cant have permanent windtrace, mystic dungeon, theatre mechinanus etc. And even then, the mobile players could choose and download the ones they want if storage allows and depending on their device. but....one year in and nothing much has changed so I doubt any of this is going to happen, sumeru will be released and we will still have 160 resin and only 3 resin half oppurtunity for weekly boss, and no resin change for world bosses and no new addition to talent and weapon domains or any changes to spiral abyss structure. And many a new fun events will come and go in sumeru and we will have to wait several months for them to come back because......thats how it is.
Labyrinth Warriors is like the better version of abyss. You have the option to dial it down if you just want the rewards while you have the option to dial it up if you want to challenge yourself.
@@lostblueboy sorry for making you guys suffer...
@@ndeyedraws ....stop dude, its not directed at the players but at the game and the minority of players who for some reason want nothing to be changed and want everyone bound to mobile player base restrictions.
Its mhy that treats the playerbase all as one monolith even though they are on different levels.
@@lostblueboy so mhy needs to implement different features for different platform? /GenQ
The only way they “somewhat fix” the current progression stall is if they reduce the amount of resin required to farm artifacts or just simply make them gone. The RNG is so bad anyway, making people need months and months just to farm a decent enough one artifact set just for one character is mentally tiring, and spiral abyss increased difficulty just exacerbate it more.
Honestly this. For me, artifact farming is just a chore. The fact that you can use a whole month worth of resin and still get complete garbage (so many layers of rng) is just plain demotivating. I don't even feel good when I get a "decent" (aka didn't roll def/hp more than 2x) artifact, I just feel empty since it took me weeks of stalled progress just for this single artifact.
making the resin system gone doesn’t fix the problem it probably will make it even worst or even potentially kill the game if you uncap the progression system for players then at some point there’s no reason to grind anymore therefore there’s nothing to chase in the game anymore if all you’re characters are built bc they uncapped the resin honestly stop saying they need to do this it’s not gonna happen anyways and it would 100% kill the game
@@andrewchatman622 I would agree with your point if the artifact RNG is not that bad. I’m day 1 player yet a lot of my characters’ artifacts set are still copium to this day. Only 3 that I would consider “decent enough” artifact set while the rest are still using random artifacts with decent substats just because the RNG for the same artifact set is so bad. If abyss only requires 4 characters then sure, it’s not bad, but we are using 8 characters in there. If I have to choose getting bored from having all my favorite characters built to getting bored from having my favorite characters not built, then ofc I would choose the former.
@@Arpin_Lusene i understand that i’ve been there me and my friends were complaining about that for months until we finally got our characters built and understand that the rng aspect of artifact grinding is kinda of a must it’s in majority of gacha games this isnt an exclusive thing to genshin you just have to be smart with your rolls and keep grinding but i would most definitely say majority of players would 100% quit the game if it was like this mostly bc theirs no pvp aspect to extend the playability you build all you’re characters with cracked out artifcats and max levels and talents within a few weeks and 36* abyss what now? 36* abyss 200 more times with different teams? fight over world mobs and bosses who are much weaker then abyss mobs? just look at something like epic seven after you built all your characters and can clear most late game content easily guess what theirs pvp so theirs still something fun to do and improve on genshin isn’t like this which is why i fear for its future since they’ve showed no signs of improving late game at all
@@andrewchatman622 The thing is I don't roll for every new characters that appear, I mainly rotate between 5-6 characters that I personally like, and I've been using them since a long time, yet their artifacts set still left a lot to be desired.
I don't understand why you say that the game stopping you completely from playing the game itself is a good thing. I used to play mmorpg and have to rely on terrible RNG for equipment drop, yet I keep playing it for years and years and don't hate the time that spent grinding, why? Because the game allowed me to play whenever and however long I want when I can.
Sometimes I can't play the game for a long time and sometimes I can. When I can, I want to spend at least one hour grinding, yet I can't because of the resin system. I only spent like 6 minutes before my resin run out. I used to grind equipment in mmorpg with my friends, and in here, after resin run out, we pretty much have nothing to do. It really kills the fun.
Instead of just speed clearing and defending the thing in the middle, there should be other types of challenges like endurance like being alive for x amount of time or your characters cant go below X% HP, maybe elemental limitations like no cryo or pyro allowed, etc.
i like everything except elemental limitations. it will force you to use a different character which bring up a lot of issues. 1, it would mean that you’ll need to spend your VERY limited resources to build another character. 2, it would destroy your team comp which can possibly lead you to issue 1. 3, there’s a chance that the character you want to test your limit with or has been putting your resources turns out to be totally unusable. i’m not saying these issues are unsolveable but i’m just saying that challenges should stay inside skill category
imma be honest this is a fucking terrible idea lmfao
@@danielartenie6248 at least i have ideas and am not some fucking hateful bore
Take a page out of God of War's challenges.
The perfect reward for a 36 star would be a crown of insight!! They are very rare (there have only been chances to get 14, so you could only have triple crowned 4 characters out of 35 by now) getting two crowns a month maximum would be really cool.
all that is keeping me in genshin is:
1) Fear of missing out
2) Sunk cost fallacy
3) The daily log-in has been already integrated in my daily life. It basically feels weird to not log-in in the morning to create condensed resin for the evening
ill not login for a week
It’s better to uninstall If it’s giving you brain rot
@@abhiss6705 it does, but its like crack i cant stopp. i need to get all my babies!
On the subject of scaling: the powerspike from floor 9 onwards is way too disproportionate compared to floors 1-8. It would make way more sense to raise the difficulty gradually by introducing more floors but mihoyo's way too worried about their bottom lines to implement something like that.
Newer players that just cleared the spiral abyss floor 8 probably would feel like they entered floor 18 after floor 8. 🤣
This is not how it used to be back when the game first launched. 🤔
@@putent9623 no he means that adding more floors would give more rewards and reduce spending if ppl had more rewards..or so mihoyo's thought process is.
@@putent9623 Bottom line meaning their profits. The same company that made billions in profits within less than a year and won multiple awards for their game. Said company that is too scared to hand out ~30 free summons for a player's hard work as they scale through the game. That company.
@@putent9623 Genshin stans really be doing the most.
Yes, Mihoyo is sacrificing their game's longetivity for the sake of more profits. Theres already a huge issue with content drought, and it wouldnt really hurt to give players, whales and F2P alike, more accessible and rewarding content with simple changes such as permanently adding event gamemodes.
Bottom lines arent just about profits. Its balancing risk/reward for both developers and consumers. At the moment, Mihoyo is solely relying on the gacha addiction to earn money, which clearly has minimal risk for them since gambling addictions arent going away. Meaning they have room to give leeway to more F2P content. Players are barely earning anything in-game for the amount of work and time they have to put in to even keep up with the game's content, which is a waste of time for minimal payoff. They should be earning more in return for Mihoyo's insanely spiking growing profits. I cant believe I have to explain something so simple.
@@putent9623 And just because you cant be bothered to read a little and resort to ad hominem attacks, doesnt make my points invalid. You wanted to know why Mihoyo puts more care into profits, and I gave you an answer. And since you dont want to read, here: Mihoyo is greedy and sucks at pacing content.
Take your own advice and dont comment something you dont care about. There are other places to praise a company's greedy practices and this place isnt one.
I'm not sure if upgrading the rewards for getting 36 stars from the abyss would fix the problem. If many still can not get 36 stars, they would probably see the rewards as just benefits for whales instead of a motivator for f2p. Of course I would like more rewards, but I don't think it would be a solution.
you underistimate the thirst the f2p have for rewards I kind of get it I am a low spender barely any different from them.
I think maybe having a big reward for just clearing floor 12 would be fine, it's already a fairly significant challenge
@@abdiabdi3225 That's mostly because the general reward amount in Genshin is pretty low across the board.
Sure, there'd be more motivation, but that would just cause an increased burnout rate among newer players and create a sort of "class disparity" between people.
im f2p and i can clear floor 11 with 6stars, take it or leave it
@@viltautasYT I'm f2p and have one 6 star.
I remember, when I first got to Spiral Abyss in my GI life, I found it extremely difficult and challenging, of course. But I enjoyed the grinding in artifact domains, as well as in the ones which give you talent books and weapon ancenscion materials. I was enjoying the pressure I had in order to defeat those bosses. Lately, I only see an HP bar that goes down in a very slow pace, even tho I have decently built characters. I don't feel that positive stress and that motivation to defeat the enemies in the next floor. I'm a very light spender so I value every single primogem to the max. However, building a character godly to defeat your opponent in SA doesn't give me back anything. I'm not saying that a free 5star of your option should be given away after each and every chamber, but, as you stated, it would be better if we could get level or weapon ancenscion materials or talent books after each floor
Enjoyable content. Got a sub out of me.
I'm a casual Genshin player at the point where my main team is just now getting their final acensions (AR 51) and peaking their talents with acceptable... not good, not great artifacts.
Now I have to build a 2nd team. Currently on floor 5, well equiped to beat floor 8 after some growth.
But what do I have to look forward to? Repeatable content to challenge the whales?
Can we please leave abyss in it's original state and move the newer harder challenges to a new area/domain... or higher floors?
There's no good reason to create a massive gap where all we can do is farm and never catch up.
Stepping stones or a sense of progression is highly important to any type of endgame.
We're much in the same boat, I'm AR52 at the moment with only my two main dps characters (Eula and Keqing) having their final ascensions.
The way I see it, Spiral Abyss is much more fun for us casuals/late starters since we can say "I've reached 11th floor in spiral abyss even though I'm many months behind in progress".
That being said, I believe the best course of action for Mihoyo would be to add another 3 or 4 floors so people who do manage to full clear Spiral Abyss can actually wear it as a badge of honor.
@@DelayedScatter Man, if you're "many months behind" in progress, i never wanted to upgrade bennett just cuz people said "it's a necessity" and i really don't like it in any game. I don't like when so little things actually work, or when the things that work are expensive and tedious to get.
Like it's an RPG, it's supposed to be completed with WHAT YOU HAVE and not WHAT DDEVELOPERS WANT.
@@Malam_NightYoru someone once said: "Gacha games are like roguelikes in a way. You need to find a way how to make due with the resources you have at your disposal." The two abyss teams I'm running are mono Cryo with VV (Eula-Shenhe-Rosaria-Jean) and Keqing taser (Keq-Traveler (Electro)-Xingqiu-Noelle). Neither team is ideal, the first would be better off with Ayaka or Ganyu as main dps, and the second one really needs Raiden to work as intended, but it works for me.
@@DelayedScatter I mean, genshin kinda bruteforce you to get better characters.
I want to not play bennett. I want to not play Xingqiu. I want to play Keqing, Amber, Noelle, Fischl... Considering other characters, they ARE weak. It's not even fair.
By the time I got strong enough to even go to floor 12, inazuma dropped and as you said, floor 12 got exponentially harder. The highest amount of stars I've gotten is 34, and these days no matter what I do I can't go above 33. I start to feel so helpless in abyss these days, and I've actually paid quite the pretty penny for this game...
I cant hit more than 30 stars 😂 Spent like $600 probably total which is pretty bad looking back at it
Hm, i think your issue was a bad resorce managment. A lot of players go waste time farming artifacts and they dont lvl character skill to at least 8 (wich is minimum for abyss).
I did use up my crowns on my best dps characters and it makes a big difference.
One word.... Artifacts
Like seriously, my rng is trash
@@Bullminator Believe me it's not. Kazuha is double crowned, c2 Zhongli has a crown, yoimiya is triple crowned, fischl has E at 13 and ult at 12 etc etc... Ayaka triple 8, Childe 8 9 9... I level my talents on both main dps and supports. I do admit that I don't really use meta teams, but I don't want to get 36 with a national team or a Morgana team (I can't actually do Morgana I don't have venti or ganyu), I want to 36* with Yoimiya and Fischl and see overload go brr. And valkyrie Oz or not, those rifthounds really mess up my Yois attacks. Honestly, right now my dps is fine if only those rifthounds stopped flitting around...
@@Bullminator yea totally a big difference, 5% increase in stats from a crown...such a big difference lmao
With this recent potions event happening, even the spiral abyss buffs feel weak. The potions have unique abilities that feel more impactful for a team's performance.
This is way too many words to say the potions are broken and trivialized all sense of challenge there might have been
That moment when your months of investment for Spiral Abyss 36* gives you less rewards in comparison to just logging in and doing your dailies.
(For comparison:
36* gives 600 gems in total every 2 weeks. So in 1 month, you get about 1,200 primogems.
If you do your dailies for 30 days (60 gems/day), you get 1,800 primogems in a month).
If Abyss gave a wild/neutral constellation for free, that'd be pretty interesting.
The main content of Genshin Impact is the story/overworld exploration and lore. Spiral Abyss is simply there to provide a form of challenging endgame content for players who wish to test their limits with regards to builds and team comps/synergy but in a way that it does not make it mandatory or otherwise intrude on the open world content. The main selling point of the game is still the overworld. Afterall, it's literally marketed as an open world gacha RPG.
kinda weird you plugged raiden national specifically as a ‘must-have’ team for spiral abyss because although it’s a very good team, every variant of the national team has been dominating the meta for a long time now. i think it’d be fairer to say xiangling and bennett are must-haves.
I agree. Honestly the claim on raiden national was kinda off. I don’t have Raiden although I have been continuously getting 36* on abyss. I didn’t get her since I don’t like her playstyle nor do I feel the need to pull for her
even tho my raiden is heavily invested in my childe international does much better than raiden national
Raiden is honestly very replaceable in many of her comps, unless they have Sara in them. I think people who recommend her enjoy her as a damage bus who doesn't do small numbers herself
@@SeanValenciaaa yeah I’ve hardly used Raiden since pulling her, she’s literally my least used 5 star as I already had Childe and Kazuha filling out national perfectly. It’s also kind of bothersome trying to farm national ER again around Raiden, so essentially my supports could be gaining that benefit of more ER but you’d have to build them around it first to actually make use of it
yea tf was he talking about? raiden isnt must pull and neither is kazuha, but kazuha is still really good
I do think that Spiral abyss is ruining the community, making it harder to just enjoy characters without feeling guilty for their damage being "not enough"
I'm a Chongyun main, I would know...
you do you, traveller. You do you.
The thing is, some enjoy spiral abyss and some just ignores it and both are fine. I’m a spiral abyss enjoyer because i love maxing out my characters to their full potential as a F2P with 5 star characters but C0 & 4 star weapons. Genshin is a gacha game, so will have to roll characters to support other characters. Shenhe, Bennett, Kazuha to support you chongyun for example.
I main and triple crowned Beidou and i can still clear 36 star because of other characters to support her.
So, in terms of enjoying spiral abyss or not is up to each players’ POV. It’s not ruining to community.
Floor 12 multiplies all enemy hp by 2.5x which is why the bosses in abyss have such stupid inflated hp stats of 1 million +
@@zan8063 Ruining is too loud of a word from me tbh--
I myself do enjoy the abyss quite a lot, I just, don't like the way some people are crazy over "how good the character X is" in every new patch, basically choosing "how good they are" by the abyss performance, sometimes ignoring the aspect of fun
Chongyun is alright he is just a support who lacks characters to properly support with his unique E but also they gave him damage consts like ?? He should go up a bit with shenhe in the game rewarding cryo infusions
The only issue for me is the one-upping of enemies vs. characters. They introduce a new character with new mechanics then counter these mechanics at some point through new enemies with counter mechanics and vice versa. I think they can do better than that to shake the "meta" (lol). I think this will lead to the point that damage only matters.
but that's the point. they're doing this on purpose, so people don't just stick to the old characters and pull for new ones.
it doesn't work in genshin like it would in some other gacha games, because the amount of elements and character roles is limited. player most likely will already have a 'f2p' substitute for every new character genshin is currently trying to promote.
take kokomi, for example. they introduced the wolf enemies and corrosion mechanic as a way to make healers more useful. they didn't fix the existing bigger problem (like the fact that some healers just take up a spot in the party that could be used by a sub dps, or they might not provide any synergy for a specific team comp), instead they created another one and slapped a new character on top of it like it's a fix. now, because we already have a lot of healers, I don't think that kokomi's sales could get boosted just by adding a new type of enemy into the abyss. what this whole thing did instead is cut down a bit on zhongli's usefulness.
and here lies their main problem: because mhy clearly have no set in stone plan for how many characters there will be and which role every one of them will fill, there is no way to guarantee that the character they release now won't ruin their sales on other characters that will come out in the future - they can't balance in advance, because the meta keeps changing. and their solution to this problem? plain old power creep and stupid little changes to the spiral abyss. people don't want to pull on new banners because they already have zhongli/xiao/bennett, etc.? just show them that their old units are actually a lot less useful and much weaker in the current version of the game. gacha games never change.
@@daydihey3045 To be fair, when done right, it makes for a more versatile world and team comps. For example, literally no one would build healers prior to rifthounds. Genshin literally became Geo Impact after Zhongli buff and Geo buff. So far there literally has been no power creep. The OG 4-stars and OG 5-stars haven't been displaced in their own element. Diluc still is the most consistent DPS in game. Jean still is a great support depending on your team comp. Mona still is a great buffer. Qiqis heals still are pretty big. Powercreep isn't an issue at all concerning characters. They just need to adjust abyss in general and lower the HP threshold.
Also, Xiao, Bennett, and Zhongli haven't gotten weaker at all. Benny and Zhong still are the most used units while Xiao is just like when he was released, average. The only thing that has changed is that Unga Bunga doesn't work anymore like standing in Bennetts burst while facing Kinky being a death trap or not being able to just tank everything with Zhongli.
@@doppelsotria4620 genshin is, overall, an easy game. you can clear most content with literally any unit available. no one is saying that zhongli is bad or that bennett isn't that widely used nowadays - I'm just pointing out the fact that all mhy do is add a new type of enemy/change up the abyss to make the new unit they're currently promoting seem more useful (and I used kokomi as an example of this).
my point was: mhy don't plan in advance, and the way they go about doing things is typical to any other gacha game out there: hu tao can objectively out-dps diluc, zhongli loses a bit of his usefulness in certain situations, in certain team comps (itto) bennett should be swapped for gorou, etc.
I myself main zhongli, xiao and bennett, and they're great, but it doesn't mean that power creep isn't happening.
at 7:30 overall 4 star usage rate will be lower because it is more likely for you to own a 4 star that you don't use in the abyss than to own a 5 star that you don't use in the abyss.
Additionally, the usage rates of spiral abyss full clears is no doubt inflated by whales who payed money on their 5* characters. No mystery why they would use them over equally viable 4* options.
I like Genshins combat so I just do the abyss for fun. Also the Abyss has some unique combination of enemies that you don't really see anywhere else and that makes it interesting.
Honestly, I play Genshin mostly because it is a very, very, incredibly beautiful game, with amazing music. I find the spiral abyss to be largely irrelevant for me, since it does not have that beautiful music or open world vistas which are the reason I play. From my perspective, adding more coin shops or something like that would make the game even more grindy and make it hard to take a break as necessary, actually detracting from the overall game. I also think that one thing Mihoyo has done very well is the constant updates that play into those factors very well. New regions are consistently both beautiful and unique to the rest of the world, the music is something they continue to focus on heavily and experiment with quite a bit. Mihoyo does a good job of keeping me interested - as long as I dont feel like I 'have' to grind for a coin shop or something, which would kill my motivation pretty quickly. I imagine that this will be the case for a lot of players that have not come to Genshin from the Gacha scene.
thing is if they gave it a coin shop but made sure that the new part of the world is still balanced the same.
genuine question: if you have all the regions at 100% and finished all the quests/events, what makes logging onto genshin daily 'fun' for you?
@@castallyourspells as someone who actually has everything 100% and hast played since release I seriously can't tell you lol. For me personally it's probably the strive to get my favourite character to theyre max potential. So I have a motivation to actually farm and grind materials and then seeing how far my Eula, Yoimiya etc have come over the last months. Also events are fun and future character keep me motivated to save primos. Probs just knowing what exciting things are coming.
But overall I'm surprisingly astonished about myself for still having so much fun and motivation but do pretty much just wait for the day I finally get bored.
@@castallyourspells Honestly, I dont log on every day, and there have been periods where I didnt play for quite a while, the longest being about 5 weeks or so before the Inazuma update. But this is what I mean: there are continually updates with new content - Enkanomiya at the moment - that keep the game interesting for me. Part of it is that I dont generally explore everything right away though, theres a lot of enkanomiya left for me to do, and with most events I often dont even start them until a few days into it.
@@milkaboom that's an interesting perspective, and I'm the kind of person who likes to grind if it pays off, but the thing is the whole resin thing just makes it really boring for me. Like, 4-5 runs a day gives you like a couple of trash artifacts and I'm honestly kind of burnt out. It just feels like at this point grinding isn't cutting it because of the whole RNG thing.
as someone who is just a casual, the state of sprial abyss combined with the resin cap and artifact RNG issues definitely concerns me. I really hope Mihoyo does something about it before the playerbase gets tired out, especially with the upcoming banners being mostly reruns.
bruh if u are a casual u wouldnt care about resin cap , artifact , and spiral players . casual players are giagchads who are completely ok with going to bed with 160/160 resin . u clearly aint a casual
@@nicolasflamel4374 Casuals can 100% be worried about the state of Genshin. It's issues right now certainly are more felt hard core players the most but it's undoubtable that the state of things affects everyone. Resin cap, awful artefact rng and how the Abyss is the only getting harder while Mihoyo doesn't give us any ways to get stronger outside of whaling are issues that can be felt by everyone that is playing this game semi-consistently.
Easy fix would be to just lower the HP imo. Some enemies can have millions of HP. Cut that to anywhere between 500k and 2m, and you're good to go, skewing to lower HP for chambers with multiple enemies and vice versa for single enemy chambers.
As it is, every enemy just ends up being bags of HP; a rather amateur method to inflate difficulty.
the thing is some enemy in Abyss already has that 500k HP limit, the big dog mobs has those numbers right now and look at the puny damage you're dealing if you don't whale
this isn’t an easy fix you decrease the health of enemies in abyss then what are the players who can easily 36* it supposed to do?
@@therranolleo468 u dont need to whale to 36*, but u need to grind i was getting 33* for last 2-3 months with same 8 characters (for main dps i used childe and diluc)i could have grinded more and got 36*, it just wasnt worth investing 5 hrs of my time for 50 primos
@@andrewchatman622 Get it easier and call it a day
@@proles8 that’s a really crappy mind set did you even watch the video? players like this need a reason to strive to keep playing the game 36* abyss easily just to get 3-4 pulls worth of primos every 2 weeks? ok what now? there’s nothing challenging in the game to test the strength of these players teams and no rewards at all to be motivated to play the game
I love to hear your calm voice while listening to a perfectly sound argument, I just wish there would be more people who appriciate your hard work.
I remember when i first cleared floor 12 with Diluc and Jean as my only 5*... I think i got 35* that time. The good old days
The fact that most tier lists boil down to how fast can they clear spiral abyss, in a game where there's no real competitive aspect speaks volumes on how this half month reset, mind numbing activity affects people's views on characters and viability.
Very true
every new character's potential is now judged based on how well they will do in spiral abyss which kinda sucks tbh
That’s why the game needs a massive overhaul on endgame content. There’s just nothing else to do
Nah, what it shows is how little there is to do in the game. What else can you judge a unit based on? Exploration? We only get a new region like every two patches and it takes like one patch to fully explore it. Fun? Fun is subjective so you cant really ask for a tier list on fun. The overworld is so damn easy it really doesnt matter who you use, you dont even need a healer, after all, you can just use the food gadget or statue of the seven. Point is, abyss is really the only way to see a unit's viablity, because the other stuff is so easy literally everyone is good
@@aperson6562 Yeah I don’t know what this original post is on about. They act like the tier list dominates the whole game when it’s only applied to one niche gamemode that half the playerbase ignores and everyone loathes.
You summed up my feelings on Abyss nicely. The inflation of enemy health pools are my primary gripe. The paltry rewards are a close second. At this point I give the Abyss one attempt some time after it resets. Rarely I'll get full stars. Often I'll settle for 32 and move on. Sometimes I even leave at 27 because I can't be bothered. What's my incentive? 50 more primos and an artifact roll I won't use? It just isn't worth more than a token effort anymore.
As a Honkai player for the past three years, I can say that Miyoyo likes to force strict and heavy meta that heavily favors new characters that they release. So many battlesuits in honkai that are unsuable in many of the available game modes because they are phased out. Some characters that were rleased a year ago are now both power and feature creep. If you dont keep up with the meta, you're screwd. Im afraid that they are starting to do same with genshin where they are increasing the difficulty of the abbys to force players to spend more. It is a business and a gatcha game after all.
That's bullshit you don't every new character to clear abyss you need game knowledge
In terms of business it make sense for mihoyo to favor new characters, but for me I will try to use old character as much as possible unless I like the new ones
It is not necessary to mention mental illness
I feel like they needed an endgame content like elysian realm in genshin, its very fun and gives alot of rewards, i think they did the same thing in genshin with shiki taishou event. But yeah spiral abyss is really a chore, they needed to add more mechanics than "clear it the fastest" Because this isnt honkai
@@subhamsubian6677 the knowledge of building every character into 50% CR and 200% CD. And that's bare minimum.
Will you build character with 2500 atk but no CR? Or character with 600 EM but only 50% CD?
I agree. Farming materials is tedious especially artifacts that keeps on giving more on the crap stats for target character you want to focus on. Also not tweaking on some of the existing characters to be used in Abyss for interesting team setup and strategy (only CN's favorite Zhongli got the first and last tweak and buff).
Aside from the bragging rights and competitiveness, the reason I also do abyss is because I needed those primogems.
Yeah...sometimes I do go around 100+ retries just to get those 50 extra primos.
They should create something like floor 13, 14, 15 and etc instead of always updating the Flor 12 ._.)
I think you hit the nail on the head.
One thing I would love to see more of is more gimmicks in floor 10/11. Monolith defense plays completely different from the other floors, as did pre-hound corossion, and the HP pools there are still managible.
Meanwhile even with hypercarries, floor 12 has felt like an awful chore for all of 2.X
I like to add in terms of Spiral Abyss difficulty, Mihoyo has already started to place in the Open World Bosses in the Spiral Abyss while the rewards remains the same since it's launched. I agree with your idea of either having a quin shop event, better rewards or something like a free constellation, else there's just no point to fully clear the abyss other than bragging rights.
I've been playing for over a year and have yet to get 36 stars. The closest I've been is 34. A challenge is great, but floor 12 tends to be an exercise in futility and frustration. I don't even bother anymore. I stop at 11.
I have been playing Genshin fro 3 months so I'm very much still a new player and I can tell you this , it was already hard enough for a new player to keep up with the world scaling let alone even doing spiral abyss and to think that every time it gets harder for old players , imagine how it is for a new player.
I played Warframe for a long time before Genshin and though WF isn't a gatcha game it has lots of similarities with GI but in Genshin pretty much all the "endgame" are time trials and this will be bad down the line because it limits the type of characters and teams player and devs can do , as all you will ever want is damage, so for me the solution would be for the game to have other types of end game content besides spiral abyss.
God yeah the world scaling makes it really difficult to balance F2P. I wish the daily tasks didn't contribute to Adventure Rank; I'm doing it to farm primogems.
@@mayarosenberg1813 yes I hate that so much along with the domains why do they have to increase my AR I was trying to get some 4* artifacts for albedo any from his new set but thanks to my AR when I tried to beat the oceanid for xingqiu it was impossible with my beidou being to weak now I can't level up shit without farming level up materials and artifacts even though I could get 5*.
You can always stop at a certain AR like 45 before doing the ascension quest. And never activate it unless you have decent artifacts. I know someone who never did the ascension quest cause he just wants to enjoy the game and very comfortable with the monster's levels.
@@abdiabdi3225 enemies level isnt related to your AR, but rather to your WL (world level) which increases with your AR, but can be manually lowered - if you're having this much trouble just lower it for some time and you can raise it later on (higher WL gives you better rewards in domains/bosses/etc)
@@abdiabdi3225 I would also recommend finding higher leveled players if you need help. I don't know if the official Genshin Discord server is still full, but there are many veterans there who have nothing to do and could easily wipe out every boss in your world. The channel for NA is #na-coop, and I think if you get the role for your server there should be other coop channels for the other servers.
I know this doesn't really fix the problem and it probably takes away from your experience, but I just want to mention that there are tons of players that would be happy to help. Really, we don't have much else to do as events are short/timegated, and helping others is satisfying (at least, in my experience it is).
When I first started genshin I thought it was a waifu game. I didn't care about team comps or new 5 stars that were broken if I didn't like their design/ personality. I mained physical dmg Kaeya until AR 54 with a really bad team comp only becaused I loved my characters. But when doing the spiral abyss, my team just wasn't good enough. I couldn't use Kaeya anymore because it got so hard, and now I only want to pull for Kazuha and Ganyu because I feel like it's the only way to actually do that shit. It sucks.
I would argue that kazuha and raiden are better for abyss then ganyu but you do you
@@sakutaro3musik486 who asked?
This is interesting bc half my genshin friend group only pulls for who they like and doesn't even do abyss. Idk why people bend over backwards for 150-300 primogems
@@Kekekekenn because there's nothing to do in endgame, what happens if you have 100% exploration in all regions? done all the quests? log on, do comms? spend resin? then log back off?
@@castallyourspells play a different game!! if you've done all the fun content then you've basically got nothing to miss out on. in my eyes, that's the point where you can play another game alongside genshin
It was such a cool benchmark to hit and it felt like I did something when I first 36 starred the Abyss. Now its just a chore filled with enemies that aren't intuitive on a speed run type challenge.
The current rotation is actually very easy with mono teams. Slotting a Kazuha into a cryo team for example is actually damage loss, because you lose the 100% uptime on the 100% cryo bonus damage Blessing of the Abyssal Moon by dealing anemo damage instead of just dealing constant cryo damage. They could make so many more types of different teams more viable by having more game changing passive effects in the Abyss.
What annoys me most is how unfair this all is on new players with the constant moving of the goalposts. If veteran players find it hard to keep up, what chance does a newbie have?
Exactly my problem! I started late and i can't spend all my time in building my characters. So it's hard to even build characters fast enough to clear abyss as f2p. By the time u've built a team for current abyss, the requirements change and u can't clear it!
I think new potion event can be a good addition to the abyss mechanic, allowing players to choose personalized buff depending on your characters and letting players choose trial characters, instead of waiting at the mercy of RNG on what buff the floor will give you. Trial characters for players who doesn't have the ideal characters to clear the floor.
Also what would be cool is if they added more floors which are a 4 man co op dungeon raid. Abyss is difficult, but fun. I'd personally would love to team up with people for it.
While I agree with most stuff, have in mind that the usage percentage comes from the people that owns the character and use it. Most people that rolled for Kokomi actually use her on Spiral Abyss (for example), so it's normal that 4*s have less usage percentage since more people own them and not all use them. Great vid nevertheless
I think all us Genshin players need to take a step back and remember that (most of us) play games for fun. Think about what you find fun in Genshin, or why you started playing in the first place.
Personally, I’m not crazy about combat, so the spiral abyss is nothing but stressful to me. But I am lucky to find fun in the lore, the teapot system, or by simply running around the open world.
I still do spiral abyss every rotation out of obligation and the extra primos, but if I think for too long about why I even want the primos, I won’t want them anymore.
Problem with this, is that if you are ignoring the spyral abyss you are loosing quite a lot of primogems for a f2p player, and that's not fun and is not easy to ignore either.
As a f2p once you explore the entire map you can only have like.. 3 guaranteed characters? or less? so of course it hurts to not be able to get those primogems since the game literally blocks you from doing it because you didn't pay hard enough or because your luck is trash, and please dont come here like "you can clear it with all the characters". You can't clear it with just Bennet and Barbara, and I said Bennet if you were lucky enough with getting bennet actually.
Well said. The part about the top floors being designed so that the current featured 5* is needed to clear it is obvious from afar.
But there is a second aspect which I think is equally important to Mihoyo. Statistical data. They get tons of data of how which characters perform against which enemies and how certain buffs affect this. This allows them to properly balance new enemies and such. Introduction of corrosion was a nice example. They introduced it in the abyss before adding rifthounds.
8:44 Isn't childe international considered the best team followed by Raiden national?
Well it doesn't matter very much, since its the same story as both teams do pretty much the same thing.
Well it also depend on the situation
For instance, Raiden national give more balanced single and aoe damage and have lower skill requirement. But Childe national is needed when you simply want to have massive aoe and more versatility
Both of them have their own use, for me neither are better than other
Usage wise Childe’s national comp is more used than Raiden’s national comp but as for which is better than the other, it depends on the situation. They're two different flavours of the same team at their core. The two have different advantages.
To name a few for Raiden National:
• Procs more reactions with the addition of Overloaded, allowing for more reaction damage (although elemental auras can get messy and confusing).
• Raiden's skill increases the entire team's burst damage, allowing Xiangling and Xingqiu to do more base damage.
• The time needed to battery Xiangling is significantly reduced or removed completely.
And Childe National:
• Stronger in multi-target content due to Childe's quadratic Riptide scaling. There is also no Overloaded, so small enemies do not get launched.
• Extremely high front-loaded damage thanks to Childe's Vaporized burst. Raiden can reach similar numbers, but due to the lack of an amplifying reaction she typically needs extensive boosting and constellations to do so (and even then her ceiling is lower).
• A battery phase that, while longer, is not awkward to implement as it fits in perfectly with Childe's required skill downtime (unless you probably have C6 Childe). As long as everyone is performing optimally, a full Childe National rotation is only 4-5 seconds longer than a full Raiden National rotation.
Yes childe is powerful but much harder to play.
Energy funneling is harder.
Childe is also no resist to interruption which is problematic. But riptide is powerful and fun. He is more fun than shogun and that's what matters more
in aoe situation childe international bets raiden nation by huge margin and is slightly worse in single target
@@connorjamesthompson6614 basically childe national is for experts while raiden national is for mid tier players
depending on play style i.e. more dps focus or more reaction damage for me raiden national would be my go to method easy to create a stupid amount of reactions and some really useful passives if you use raiden and xingqiu as support and xiangling as main dps. childe is better due to share power but less versetile in comparisson.
5:00 Dark Vision reward in FFBE was so unbalanced when the damage cap was still 2^31-1. Literally 1000+ players clumped over rank 1 because score capping is possible for whale and select few who has "the right STMR". But if you score *just* 1 point lower from perfect, you get the rank 1000+ reward instead of rank 2. The difference just from this very small score difference net you 80%~90% loss of the most important reward (i.e. the STMR tickets)
In comparison, Spiral Abyss reward is rather fair (IMO). It allows the players who aren't regular spender (Welkin/BP up at any time) or non-meta chasers not to be stressed out not getting the full amount of bi-weekly primo hand out.
Giving better/more reward actually will make these people more stressed out because the gap between those who can 36 stars them and those who can't gets bigger as the time goes. And the only way for them to get them closer/ keep the gap closer is by be the regular spender and care more about meta instead of playing the character they like.
that comparison is abit unbalanced cuz 1 has a ranking system, the other is pure single player. as someone who care to look into how much "gacha investment'' get u, adding ANYTHING pvp related into genshin (even a simple scoreboard) would kill the game instantly due to how much of a power difference whaling get you.
As a f2p who started because of the HZD crossover, genshin's endgame is really a mess. It doesn't really feel challenging like other games, it's just an endless grind for marginally better stats, that in the end barely change anything. And spiral abyss is really where it shows; since it's a straight dps check and there's not too much skill behind it
totally unrelated but did u build ur aloy , or gave up on the collab unit
@elegies of the end I completely agree. There’s a balance between difficult and fun, Abyss is far from it. They just keep adding more and more enemies with obnoxious asf mechanics and terrible game design, constricting the team comps you can use.
@elegies of the end true I remember the times where I could clear abyss just my memorizing the enemy spawns with a lot of hilichurls and having the feel of skill expression by doing so. but nowadays every abyss is just a new enemy type with more HP and stupid dodge or invicibility frames and just one or 2 of them forcing you to spam your rotations all the time on them until they die, that´s it
spiral abbys for me its mostly about building proper teams with good synergies and taking advantage of the current blessing. thats the only way i can full star it.
@@flamm7956 i built her a bit, she's LVL 60 but I stripped a lot of her stuff for other units
I feel like something they could add to help players that want an "infinite grind" is some sort of free 1* artifact farming domain because there are some people that farm 100 white/green artifacts from the map every day to either turn into artifact exp or more
With this grindable domain I'm proposing it would give the same amount of artifacts as a normal 20 resin run but all 1* which would help players grind 2 of the WORST things to run out of MORA (used for essentially everything progression wise) and artifact exp (I havent actually ran out of this yet) running out of both of these limit the growth of your accounts strength more than anything else grindable with resin (talents, exp,weapon mats, etc.) Because they affect All characters because of how artifacts are shareable between characters and mora is used for EVERYTHING
When I'm out of resin I always went to try getting more stars in the abyss, just because I want to get more primo for characters I like
It's challenging, but some floors are just annoying, and I can see how they made the floors beneficial to some banner characters to make players pull for them (like giving geo and physical dmg buffs on floor 11 during albedo and Eula's rerun)
11:10 Dude, I literally pulled for albedo(despite me hoarding primos for kazuha and venti) because I didn't wanted to feel like I missed out on the new 4 star sword knowing how good it is.
I mean the sword makes Albedo good himself.
NGL i was also very tempted to pull albedo bcz of that sword.
Same. Hahahaha
Sometimes I wish Mihoyo didn't take the low Kokomi and Yoimiya sales so personally. If you look at the leaks for the 2.5 Abyss, this mob powercreep trend only seems to continue, and it's pretty much round 2 of MHY gimping shield characters with the Shadowy Husk enemies.
Speaking of Shadowy Husks...
NGL its kinda shady for MHY to rerun Zhongli only to gimp him further by dropping Husks in a patch or two after his banner.
@@PsycheTrance65 Makes sense as to why they want to silence the leakers. I'm still gonna pull for him because I like him as a character, but it's nevertheless sad to see them do that. This makes me think that they'll do the same for the Raiden, Kazuha, and other reruns. Every enemy since Inazuma has been increasingly frustrating to deal with: Kairagi with their HP reset and repositioning all over the place are the LEAST bad offenders. Spectres have insane HP regen and it's hard to hit them when you're playing a melee character, the Whelps/Rifthounds have wonky hitboxes, move all over the place, and are even worse to fight against when using a melee - and there's also corrosion, which is fine, but this seems more like creating a problem to sell a solution. Oh, and the Wolflord is coming to the Abyss soon, so I can't wait to stand around waiting for it to fly around. It's not like the Abyss is a timed challenge, right?!? The Husks look even more frustrating to deal with on paper, we shall wait and see. But point still stands - I'm not a fan of the new enemies at all.
Corrosion's not really the problem but the Shadowy husks are
I think another way Spiral Abyss breaks Genshin is that the core design of it being a DPS race means damage damage damage all the time. Any new (or old!) character who either doesn't augment that damage (Bennett) or provide new outlets (Raiden) is immediately discarded.
Oh, Ayato drops in a few weeks? If he doesn't improve my clear times in the Abyss, he's garbage.
I started playing genshin for the first time just over 6 months ago, i have extensive knowledge in rpgs and games with builds but genshin still took me probably 2 months to fully grasp. I have only ever bought the welkins every month since i started. Just yesterday was my first attempt at the spiral abyss floors 9-12. i was able to 9 star every chamber up until 11-3. I decided to try floor 12 anyway and after giving up due to it taking so long i realized i probably wont even be able to beat floor 12 for another year. it's actually insane.
My guess for the state of current abyss and newer game content in general: MHY had a year where they let Genshin be as beginner-friendly as possible to gain a large fanbase and general buzz around the game, now they can squeeze this fanbase for money by making the game progressively harder and borderline impossible for f2p.
It probably will backfire in the long run with low spenders eventually dropping out, dwindling numbers of new players and their next game probably not picking up as much as it could if MHY cared about their reputation and not just bottom line
even the bottom line is going to hurt most people that spend money are low to medium max £500 if they stop coming then the entire game will just limit itself to hyperspecialisation of one character like mtash does with his luck of course. the people who could whale would not be as likely to be drown in and even they will get tired of having to deal with artifact farming.
Oh trust me, these double banners are an attempt at draining the current playerbase's wallets. It's unfair how they started doing double banners, yet the amount of primos we get is still the same. Plus, Mihoyo's idea of difficulty is a enemy running away. While you can't hit it at all.
Bottom line is, Xiao rerun sales have suffered apparently. Makes sense, since Itto just powercrept him and Ganyu is a far better DPS.
Just cause you put out 4 banners instead of 2, doesn't mean your income will double.
Im f2p and my experience now is basically the same as it was a year ago. Everything feels the same difficulty so I can't say I agree. Do tell me more tho!
@@RKNancy Consider this: There have only been 2 patches that mihoyo released from 1.0 to 2.4 that had 2 reruns. 1.4 and 2.2 They had to make double banners happen after a while because otherwise, players would have probably needed to wait for a rerun for 1yr+ after Sumeru.
@@szo82 Which honestly, I think would have been the more optimal way for Mihoyo to rake in a bigger income. Having reruns be few and far between builds scarcity. That then encourages people to spend more as they'll have a limited amount of time to get said character, constellations, & weapon before we may never see them again (or it'll be a very long time until we do so).
By doing dual running reruns, people aren't going to be as likely to pull, as there's now a higher chance of that character getting a rerun in the near future. So to avoid being stretched thin, they save for the next rerun.
I just finished my first clear of abyss on floor 12 a few hours ago. I would say I’m quite proud as a f2p, but honestly, the stress it gave me even months ago trying to clear it was honestly not worthy it. Floors 9-10 are somewhat accessible, but floors 11-12 is just pure hell.
I love abyss and i always chill on it whenever i ran out of resin. Just doing different team comps and see who can full stars it
They abyss is in an awkward spot at the moment. For veteran players, even the f2p(enviosity for example), spiral abyss is moderately annoying to an absolute joke depending on investment since players are always pulling new units and grinding artifacts. The people who grind the game to this extent are often more vocal as they are more passionate about the game, which is why you will often hear about the game being too easy. This leads to the abyss getting harder since the devs want to give the endgame players something to do.
For a new player, however, reaching the current abyss dps checks is very difficult, though it is possible to 36 abyss as seen in various theorycrafters making new accounts to see how fast they can do it, with the fastest time being 52 days.
The problem is that casual players want to play abyss to, but it is soul crushingly hard unless you have grinder tirelessly for artifacts and have a phd in game mechanics such as elemental gauge, poise and icd, etc. Which leaves the tryhards nothing to do too soon, and the casuals an extreme hard task.
I am a veteran dolphin player but was able to 36 the abyss f2p since 1.3 but I sold my soul to the game since the very beginning and there are many more like me, the game is simply too easy once you dive into it a bit. I also have friends that have been playing the same time as me but don’t religiously grind and aren’t particularly fond of reading spreadsheets, thus they find abyss impossible.
In conclusion, I think mihoyo needs to make another abyss style part of the game but the floors are endless and they just keep upping the stats of the monsters with a reward for reaching a certain tier, like a name card or perhaps an outfit or something to reward the player for the dedication to the game.
It's getting numerically harder which is almost never fun. Genshin Impact even with all those changes isn't hard and even if they make the DPS checks even tighter the game still wont be hard. They have to give us challenging mechanics, not this lazy thing with increasing numbers.
You could do so, so much with abyss if each rotation reset literally every floor.
You can easily scale the difficulty of the abyss to the world level of the player. If it is too hard, then the player can manually lower the world level in order to make it easier
More importantly, it will allow players to full clear abyss and get all the rewards regardless of a player's level of investment.
At that point, they can add leaderboards that provide information to everyone. Who cleared the abyss fastest under 'X' world level? What comps did they use? Did they have to run it multiple times? What were their builds? etc. There is literally no downside to these leaderboards. This allows whales to compete and flex on other players, and it provides f2ps and dolphins a sort of guide as to what units are most popular at the moment. They could even go so far as to show the fastest clear times of each character, that way players can see just how far their favorite character is being pushed and and strive to build those comps that they see.. AND it's a money maker for MHY. It's baffling to me that they don't make changes like this
Also please for f sake buff the rewards we get. This would happen naturally if more than just floor 9-12 reset per rotation. Even if floors 1-8 only reset once per patch it'd be a night and day difference. 1200 more primos per patch from abyss alone and waaay more mora/leveling mats
10:47 The game alao makes it very hard to progress any character much thanks to the abysmal artifact rng
The problem with genshin spiral abyss is the "DPS check." Periodt. They should make end game content more like the hypostasis event where the hypostasis had cooler, stronger, different abilities. This made players actually change the way they play and think of mechanics instead of just a Vaporize/Melt comp lol. Similarly with the first Dragonspine event where you had to use the red crystals to break the barrier or hide behind the barrier from the snowstorm attack. Mechanical changes that makes you think about the game is what makes it fun. During that event, Amber was actually viable because she was the only character who can set up before starting the event.
That won't be a solution either... There will be some niche characters that perform unexceptionally well but not all players have it. For example when they introduced abyss herald on abyss ganyu can break the shield easily meanwhile other characters have to suffer a very long skill cd and losing so much time.
what i hate is that they just add more hp to monster.
Ive always said artifact dungeons should have been given the MMO treatment. Make them actually dungeons, mobs and bosses, and at the end you get artifacts, and have it cost no Resin. The weekly bosses should have been raid style fights. The spiral abyss giving a stella fortuna at the end would be awesome and valuable.
that 4 star constellation idea is sooooo amazing I hope if it would be integrated into the game. Some HOPIUM
I'm a week 1 player and I agree. I started out as f2p and I first cleared floor 12 just after two months, with teams consisting of only 4* characters with an exception of Klee and Zhongli. I first got 36* 4-5 months after I started playing but this time I had 5 5* characters, who were geared up at least decently. Later on in the game I became a dolphin as I got a job and became financially independent. So I started buying Welkin and BP and even swiped a bit to get certain characters and/or weapons(Raiden C2, Staff of Homa etc). But since 2.2, abyss has become exponentially harder even though I've so many built units and teams. I last 36* the abyss in 2.1, after that I couldn't get more than 35*. Eventually I stopped trying hard and decided that I'll only attempt the abyss only once. Since I've got so many good characters, I cheese through floor 9-11 and get 6* in 12 easily, anything above that on 12 is bonus to me now. I am not bothered to perfect my artifacts or team rotations to get 50 primos. It's become a biweekly chore.
Honestly as a f2p who recently cleared abyss 36 stars, I totally agree with the fact that characters are what matter not the strategy.
*looks at raiden national and ayaka, hu tao* (characters that I always use in abyss)
I also think the recent potions event was such a big step in the wrong direction since its mechanics completely alienates new/low ar players and those who dont build charas super strong.
I’m not even low AR (49) and it still alienated me, as have most of the blue door events (the dungeon one was fun but then I got stuck on the second stage). I heard from a friend that the 3rd day of this even was easier and I managed to complete it, but it was 1.5 hours of work to get a measly 60 primos. Couldn’t complete the other days.
I always think that about those events where the minimum mob level is 70!.. and to actually get most of the rewards you will need to fight the 90+ mobs. I can thankfully beat those enemies easley but what about low level players? They don't have the slightest chance at getting any rewards and therefore pretty much no reason at all for participating.
It has been a little better recently with the trial character but it's still sad many players are forced to miss out..
@@mixolydia3309 I'm AR 51 and didnt even get any primos cuz I only have 2 kinda well built charecters (Ayaka and Hu tao) and some teammates with random artifats with ok stats slapped on them. I'm goddam AR 51 and I still use a lvl 50 kaya in the abyss and I only just got to the corridor. I only got 1 star on the last floor of 9.
to add salt into the wound, they make the requirement to get all frimos, ridiculously high
It doesn't just alienate low AR players.
I could barely do it (only silver medals on the easiest mode) and I'm AR56.
At some point the devs need to decide whether they want to make this game for elite epeen wankers or for normal people. Then they need to exclusively cater to that group and cash out the group they abandoned. There is no way to make content that works for both groups because their needs are polar opposites.
They should add 1 vs 1 pvp arenas. Choose 1 character, no food, and fight. Can also have level gates for this. ie. a pool for each 10-20 levels. This way you can also motivate players to have some units they don't regularly use at level 20 or 40 for these challenges.
I totally agree with your sentiments about abyss. Especially floor 12, it is ridiculous how much HP each floor has and the time we have to complete it doesn't change..
I have been playing this game for over a year, and I have a few great characters " Hu Tao, Ayaka, Albedo, venti, hell, I have a C3 mona, yet... I have not once 36☆ the abyss (only 29-31☆ and I don't even bother doing 12-3 anymore) I'm willing to admit that I am not the greatest when it comes to mechanics but damn...
same bro, i am satisfied with 30-34 stars, only missing out 50 primo, no big deal
despite having Bennett, Zhongli and Kazuha, I'm barely able to clear floor 12 (like, 0-star clear). Sometimes it even depends on the moon buffs.
Edit: I'm F2P
What teams do you usually run them in? 🤔 Generally speaking, having all three already boosts your account's capability by a lot.
Then again, Abyss is already a pain (I dread the 2.4 Abyss, I keep hearing rumors that they'll add the Wolflord, like WTF) so I won't fault you for not retrying a lot for the stars. I gave up at 32* lol
@@karamecchi depends on how their dps is
I really hope in terms of endgame content, we get something like honkai's elysium realm, where the game turns into a repeating domain , that acts like a rogue like, that gives more rewards, the more difficultly you go through
There is a LOT of room for improvement, and a lot of good ideas they can add to the game, but this game caters too much to the casual players, I have seen a lot of casuals complain that they can't get high scores on the potions event... and that they don't want more events like it...
NO. ELYSIAN REALM IS FUCKING TERRIBLE.
This game is and should always remain a game for non hardcore players. If you are a hardcore player go find a game that caters to you instead of trying to ruin this one.
@@GeorgeMonet uh, I mean, it can do both??? I find the elysium realm quite fun, though it may not be everyone's cup of tea, there could just be extra end game content for people who want it, and the non hardcore people can just not play it, the rewards for the gameode could just be a lot of mora, so that it isn't forced to non hard-core players to play it. Saying the elysium realm is terrible is uhh, well some people like it, and im one of them, playing rogue likes is pretty aite idea for endgame content cuz it's challenging and repeatable