HARDEST 5k COURSE in the UK (INSANE!).. how FAST CAN I RUN? Great Yarmouth Parkrun

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ความคิดเห็น • 115

  • @TimGrose
    @TimGrose 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Well done Ben. You may have noted that this is "hardest" one according to a study I did using the parkrun data we get for runbritain and the handicap scores we have on there. I like to think more as "slowest" as hardest is a little more subjective. The basic idea is comparing times done at each parkrun to what the runners have done elsewhere at a similar distance. So this is indeed slow as you were what 5 mins faster over the same distance in your previous video! I probably need to run the stats again as they were up to the break for you know what. A quick look though and this one does appear to have retained its place at the bottom! The very fastest one may have changed however (need to do some further checking) but certainly is no longer Berkeley Green whose course I understand changed on the restart. Victoria Dock & Dulwich I recall you have both done and look to be still amongst the very fastest. That all said I think the Invincibles would have been low on my shoe choice for sand :)

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Sarah and me enjoyed reading all about your SSS.. and as a golfer myself it makes a lot of sense! I did look at Berkeley Green and was perplexed as to why it was the fastest.. but if you say the route has changed then that makes sense, as it’s so twisty! Have done Victoria dock and dulwich.. but super fast. But not perfect. It is interesting that with thousands of parkruns, there is no perfect course.. flat, flowing turns where you don’t have to slow down. Thanks for your work.. sorry I didn’t reference it in the video, will add some links in the description!
      Sub 20 is certainly possible here.. I’ll maybe go back and try when the weather is better. Was just way to windy on this day.. great challenge though.
      Had no idea what shoe would be best.. went for the highest surface area so I didn’t sink much. Worked ok..
      Well done with your 55k run!

    • @ianwells2910
      @ianwells2910 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@BenParkesGood to see you on Saturday. You may have to define "better weather". To get a fast time at GYNBp it needs to have rained heavily the night before to compact the sand; it needs to be low tide with a firm foreshore ( like Saturday) and it needs to have still wind. The hardest (slowest) course conditions are several days of sun to dry the sand, high tide forcing the runners up the beach into soft sand and a strong wind. The course changes every week.

  • @kofuzi
    @kofuzi 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I don’t think I’d ever want to run this race. But I love watching Ben do it

  • @samf90
    @samf90 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Portrush Parkrun in Northern Ireland is also on the beach the whole way!

  • @dazzapie9058
    @dazzapie9058 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I did it last year and thought it can't be that difficult......but it certainly was !!!

  • @lukedaniel7669
    @lukedaniel7669 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great profile! I've done Woolacombe, you'll love it but it's bonkers. This is definitely on my list as I love beach runs. I did Stratford upon Avon in a blizzard on Saturday 😂

  • @stevie-b1000
    @stevie-b1000 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    It is great that you visited GYNB parkrun, bringing it to your followers. As a weekly runner/volunteer at this parkrun I am informed it was set up to encourage people to exercise and enjoy the beach, be it as a walker or a runner. The conditions change very dramatically every week, so personally I find that a PB for myself for this course is irrelevant.
    It certainly can be a toughie, but there are a hardcore crew of local runners that just keep coming back and make it their home parkrun.
    It is a good workout, and due to sand running being lower impact I find it is a good recovery run.🙂
    There is a time warp video of the entire course on my channel.

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Was such a lovey morning we spent with everyone.. thank you for volunteering out there and making the event happen Stevie!

  • @James-Henderson
    @James-Henderson 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Woolacombe has the “dune of doom” to climb as well as lots of beach.

  • @almckinnon1753
    @almckinnon1753 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Woolacombe is nails, there’s big down hills at the start with sharp turns onto the packed sand, easy to run on this, then onto the beach for a mile or so. Then you turn right up this sand dune (nails) and back onto the compact sand. You finish by going up hill to the finish line. It looks harder than that one, but I’d have to run it one day to see.
    Well done anyway, doing that whilst talking to a camera must be nails itself without running the hardest ParkRun in the UK.
    If you haven’t already, try a 20 mile race called “The Grizzly”, it’s got hills, stones, beach, road , bag piper, a beer stall and loads more surprises…… It’s just a completely nuts race that saps every bit of energy out of you. I’ve signed up for it again for Mar 22.

    • @sarahdotcom
      @sarahdotcom 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I've done the Grizzly, the bit on the shingle beach was the hardest. Due to weather we had a bit of a course change which may have made it easier the year I did it (but at least I didn't get blown off a cliff!). Did Woollacombe Dunes earlier this year and I think it was harder than this video looks. Getting up the sand dunes was tough!

  • @mug2y
    @mug2y ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm 68yrs old now, and have ran marathons, half marathons, 6k's, 10k's , mens health survival of the fittest but the hardest I think I've done is 10 miles on soft sand, from southport pier to Ainsdale and back, so I know what it's like, flippin murder , well done you. 👏

  • @jdidsbury
    @jdidsbury 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hi Ben - great vid. Just to echo other comments here, the Whinlatter course is brutal for the ascents and descents, but the views at certain points are stunning. It's a long way from SE10, but well worth a trip.

  • @Tonyr2
    @Tonyr2 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice one Ben. Was in Yarmouth last October, no parkrun then of course so we popped up the coast to see the wild seals on the beach. Special sight 🤩

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      We wanted to go see the seals… but ran out of time. We did spot some swimming right off this beach though, was lovely!

  • @timtrenholm3698
    @timtrenholm3698 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well done!
    Parkrun is new where I live, only 3 runs so far, but our course turn around point has averaged 7%, 9% and 10% headwinds on my Stryd wind foot pod. With yesterday being a semi blizzard. LOL
    Very few of us brought sunglasses, but those that did probably felt it was our most important piece of kit we brought with side ways snow and ice in the face.

  • @phill.p
    @phill.p 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Come have a go at Queen Elizabeth Country Park Parkrun. It has a little bit of an incline!!!!!!

  • @darlingdarlingscatlounge2796
    @darlingdarlingscatlounge2796 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for coming to visit us well done on the run ❤️

  • @jamiepizey2161
    @jamiepizey2161 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Did this run today and definitely extremely hard to run in the sand. Marshall says that it's a different surface every week, due to tides/winds/rain/other users (including a resting seal pup today). Nowhere to hide from wind. More importantly is that I finished and kept smiling the whole course 😊🏃🏻

  • @Dannyner6
    @Dannyner6 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    great effort, ben :D i wasn't convinced about running on soft sand but you won me over with the arcades and kitty cafe. i'll have to visit some time! good luck if you go for the record :D

  • @118fish
    @118fish 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ben did it in sandals last week, probably not a good idea, but fish isn't normal 😂. 12 postion in the over sixty club, thanks for the recap & talking while running isn't advisable, so we'll done 🦵🫁🫀💪👍

  • @myh400
    @myh400 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow. The Gt Yarmouth sand looks relentless. More in the class of Millom (swamp version) for 'toughest grind' rather than Woolacombe and Whinlatter, which have epic climbs and epic scenery? Woolacombe's long beach section tends to be on compacted sand when the tide is out and usually offers a decent running surface as a break from the soft sand above the dunes.

  • @RunSensible
    @RunSensible 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That looks intense. I live by the beach and 200-300m running on the sand is very difficult. Well done, Ben.

  • @tonypotter9578
    @tonypotter9578 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You ‘shore’ did get it done! Well done Ben 👏🏼

  • @briankerr2989
    @briankerr2989 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Brilliant Ben, get yourselves to Whinlatter Parkrun, that is tough💪👍

  • @Scott-fi6ml
    @Scott-fi6ml 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mate we have a parkrun in Newcastle in Australia that is just beach and my home parkrun has a beach you have to run on crazy. Well done doing that run hope you do go back can't wait to see you run it again.

  • @joefranklin129
    @joefranklin129 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Lullingstone is another to try, a bit more local to Greenwich and one of the most undulating in the UK

  • @optionaldaveuk
    @optionaldaveuk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great time for that well done 👍, I do that one regularly, usually around 30 minutes though.

  • @mikesimms1
    @mikesimms1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nicely done. I do a beach run of 3 or 4 miles once a week, but I do it barefoot and down on the hard pack at low tide. It keeps me from running too fast on an easy run, lol.

  • @danielmontaigne1219
    @danielmontaigne1219 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Come to Crosby when it’s windy and see what you think.

  • @justinstockwell6833
    @justinstockwell6833 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Done this one twice now . They dry Sand is a killer but you have a little let off in the Grass part and on the front in the wet sand 😎 well done on your time

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you Justin!

  • @lukewillis807
    @lukewillis807 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Looking forward to the fastest Park Run video!

  • @dansnipe4835
    @dansnipe4835 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I did that park run in 22.36 very hard but so much fun great video one of your best

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Awesome time Dan!

  • @cuberstu
    @cuberstu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You wana try Plymvalley Parkrun Plymouth, see how you cope going uphill! + a bit off road⁉️ 🏃‍♂️💨🏅

  • @jamesglazier772
    @jamesglazier772 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Lyme Park is pretty damn tough, probably not as hard as that one but the start is horrible. I did the first Lyme Park Parkrun and everyone’s times were 2-3 mins slower than usual, I was steady 25:30 and it took me 28:30 so worth a look.

  • @ian757
    @ian757 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well done Ben. You had to get your skates on to keep ahead of that lady taking her dog for a walk. She was pretty brisk! And kudos to the chap who came in 3rd showing how it’s done in the 60-64 group! 👏👏👏

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      She’s the female course record holder (set without the dog!) very speedy lady!

  • @timeonfeet
    @timeonfeet 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Sandy parkrun to arcade to cat cafe. Loved the variety in this one 👍 You need to run on sand more often Ben whilst others run on tarmac to give us a chance!

  • @davidhigginbottom371
    @davidhigginbottom371 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Get yer sein up to Sheffield just the 6 to chose from. My home run is concord

  • @peterlang3369
    @peterlang3369 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Not been there yet, only down the road from me in Lowestoft

    • @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics
      @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You will have to go over and run it sometime Pete. It is flippin' tough!!

  • @tomaszp173
    @tomaszp173 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Saw your name on parkrun results and thought '21 minuts? Noo it cant be THIS Ben Parkes' haha

  • @ianwells2910
    @ianwells2910 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    And the course must have been quick today. The tide was out and it had rained overnight. My time today was 1/2 minute better than my previous course best.

  • @overmyheadphotography6186
    @overmyheadphotography6186 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love your channel if you ever up Cumbria/Scottish borders and want some drone footage done let me know.👍

  • @johndunn3675
    @johndunn3675 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Have you tried the craziest parkrun at Somerdale Pavillion at Keynsham nearr Bristol? Run on the site of a former chocolate factory the course has a section called the Curley Wurley

  • @derrunn3r613
    @derrunn3r613 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You know it's cold when Ben is not wearing his pink but proper gloves and actually a jacket while running a race.

  • @carlstoakes6240
    @carlstoakes6240 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    G'day! Is that the Soar Ultra jacket? Looks good...

  • @ianbritton7534
    @ianbritton7534 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Try the Gower 50 ultra? Rather a lot of beaches and sand on the second half.

  • @djlambden2226
    @djlambden2226 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great running Ben

  • @FenboyTim
    @FenboyTim 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Not too far from home, Yarmouth….There’s a fairly new Parkrun at Sandringham Estate Norfolk - go there and nail the course record!

    • @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics
      @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The Sandringham Half course was great earlier this year (even though it measured a little short). Sure that the ParkRun there will be brilliant.

  • @The_Funky_Horn
    @The_Funky_Horn 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes! Do Marathon Des Sables!!

  • @markhiggs1487
    @markhiggs1487 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done that's a tough parkrun I've done it once and was a good 5mins off my usual time, just remember the burn in the thighs lol.

  • @eastonmillane3194
    @eastonmillane3194 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    See you running the other day in woolwich just up the road from the ferry

  • @woody_runs
    @woody_runs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Kudos Ben that is an INSANE Parkrun! 🤪 Down the road at Gorleston is much easier. You should come and do one of the Yarmouth 5 mile races. Flat and fast!

  • @patrickedwards5804
    @patrickedwards5804 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wonder if there is any correlation between the hardest park runs and number of runners? Seems like the burghers of Woolacombe - at least those possessing a pair of running shoes - voted with their feet ( or maybe their sandbuckets!).

  • @benread149
    @benread149 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good ole yarmouth

  • @GyulaJentetics
    @GyulaJentetics 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beautiful scenery 👌 😍 ❤

  • @mikeboudrie6585
    @mikeboudrie6585 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Absolutely Awesome in that weather and on the sand 👍👍👍

    • @mikeboudrie6585
      @mikeboudrie6585 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Chased by a dog to add to the difficulty level. 😂 love your work Ben

  • @alexweatherburn4390
    @alexweatherburn4390 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    It doesn’t look as hard as the Woollacombe Dunes parkrun, this one is all on the flat and soft sand but the Woollacombe run is also mainly on soft sand and up and down hills with the Dune of Gloom thrown in. When I ran it the tide was in and all the way down the beach we were running through the ankle deep surf, I enjoyed it, didn’t do a fast time but at 76 years old glad to be able to do it.

  • @desmorris3628
    @desmorris3628 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Have you tried the Whinlatter run. It tough.

  • @AugherAndy
    @AugherAndy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Portrush ni was the first beach one.

  • @DanRuns
    @DanRuns 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What a great park run!

  • @talesdemileto9399
    @talesdemileto9399 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This has nothing to do with your video and is off topic , but yesterday I ran my first marathon at 35 did a time of 4:14:37
    And I wanted to thank you all your tips review and everything in your channel was a lot of inspiration and helpful.

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Congratulations! Big well done to you!

  • @nevillej9408
    @nevillej9408 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just done this park run today and it is damned tough but far more so when you have high tide and there is no stable beach at all….

  • @mountaingoat3012
    @mountaingoat3012 ปีที่แล้ว

    East of Great Yarmouth is The Netherlands

  • @framedman
    @framedman 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Still rapid. And a big yes for MDS!

  • @jacintascanlon9529
    @jacintascanlon9529 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Massive kudos running on soft sand after your injury last year! It was hard for me to even walk on sand for several years after I had a similar break.

  • @fatrunner
    @fatrunner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love Great Yarmouth but I don't fancy the look of that Parkrun. 😂

  • @lynsnowling8568
    @lynsnowling8568 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thank you for the lovely comments…..as one of yesterday’s tail walkers I can confirm this course is challenging, but always invigorating. It was great to see you at Great Yarmouth and look forward to your revisit to claim the course record!

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Everyone was so friendly.. we genuinely had one of the best days out in a long time. Thank you for helping make it happen Lyn!

  • @Jambalayatrailforce
    @Jambalayatrailforce 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Any chance on using trail shoes with big lugs or maybe barefoot next time ,great work I like a sandy run

    • @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics
      @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You would be a brave man to run it bare foot over the stoney sections.

    • @wag-on
      @wag-on 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This needs tactics lol - wet weather days probably better on sand for traction.

  • @senseiquickbooks4588
    @senseiquickbooks4588 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    A 5k park run in the Philippines in the middle of summer would beat that any day... 😅 38 degree celcius with 82%+ humidity..

  • @jamiexavier6654
    @jamiexavier6654 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Gees Ben - that looks super tough well done on getting it done and storming in at first place!!

  • @nevillej9408
    @nevillej9408 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Try it when the tide is in, much tougher….

  • @russellking8306
    @russellking8306 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sarah should of done it,she has a beach crossing and the dunes of doom in the Arc!!

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      She had a injury on the day, so was resting.. she was very jealous! All ok now though

    • @russellking8306
      @russellking8306 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wish her a speedy recovery, looking forward to meeting you guy's down here in Cornwall in January.

  • @christianbouchard7430
    @christianbouchard7430 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey. You put map on screen for me! Great! :)

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes. Will put it up whenever we travel outside London!

  • @SimonWilliamsTutor
    @SimonWilliamsTutor ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder why it's so much slower than Hafan Pwllheli which is entirely on a beach. Is it really difficult to find any firm sand at GY? GYNB Ave time is 38:17mins, HP is just under 33mins.

  • @mitchellatkins9701
    @mitchellatkins9701 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    congrats on 1st place

  • @ThatRunningGuy
    @ThatRunningGuy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Great running Ben…that looked horrible !! I think I’ll be giving that one a miss

    • @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics
      @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It is horrible 😂 but a fun morning out just down the coast for me and a different type of ParkRun to my most local ones which are fairly quick if the winds aren't high along the Prom. Will probably run Yarmouth again next Spring/Summer.

    • @ThatRunningGuy
      @ThatRunningGuy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MarkSmith_Best-Athletics at least with the horrible parkruns we are not that bothered about times 🤪

    • @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics
      @MarkSmith_Best-Athletics 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ThatRunningGuy With age I have learnt to pick when I try and run quick a little more wisely. Only tried one all out 5k this year (maybe time for one more before the year is out, although don't think that I'm currently in shape to run a PB). Was still foolish enough to do my left calf in 5 days before knocking 9 minutes off my Marathon PB in October... Still a silly boy at times 😂

    • @ThatRunningGuy
      @ThatRunningGuy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MarkSmith_Best-Athletics it doesn’t matter how old we are, sometimes we never learn

  • @joebryant
    @joebryant 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can we have a video Ben Parks vs Ben is running. Take my money

  • @bripayton3723
    @bripayton3723 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hardest??? You can't have done Whinlatter (temp course) the fast times are done by some of UK's top fell runners and features the travelator mud uphill run.
    Come on give it a go before it changes back to the older ( less hilly route)

  • @johnbeard5093
    @johnbeard5093 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I thought Woolacombe was the hardest too.

  • @Riv_111
    @Riv_111 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do Vaporfly’s work for hill repeats?

  • @simonjameswright1
    @simonjameswright1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Visited this one a couple of times (from Norwich). It is insane. Times vary according to conditions - if you can find a day when the sand is wet and the wind is low, then that's the best you can hope for on this course! Would have come to Yarmouth on Saturday to take part with you, but put off by the forecast... Do come back for the course record

  • @Olando89
    @Olando89 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’d be scared of snapping an achilles tendon running on the beach.

  • @Olando89
    @Olando89 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What shoes would you wear doing that?

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Nike invincible’s. I had no idea what would be best though.. but they worked well!

    • @Olando89
      @Olando89 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenParkes I get you. There really isn't a running shoe made for running on the beach. I would of picked a off-road gortex pegasus or something if I was game on running on sand. Anyway you're amazing in how you can still get good times while hold a camera at the same time. One love!

  • @davebowerman9869
    @davebowerman9869 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Would love you travelling around the country smashing course records for fun and GETTING IT DONE!

  • @kegoangoango
    @kegoangoango 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Must be very cold if you’re wearing a jacket. What temp was it?

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Probably about 5 Celsius

  • @kenmeyertwo
    @kenmeyertwo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sorry, but what is a Parkrun?

  • @blainejohnson9954
    @blainejohnson9954 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The guy in the back at 2:34 wearing vaporfly’s 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

  • @gbsmartfit6668
    @gbsmartfit6668 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sorry Ben have to disagree with it being the hardest. Now I can see comparisons, but the original and until Yarmouth set theirs up the only Parkrun solely on a beach was Portrush in Northern Ireland.
    Right on the North Coast, no stones (which are tough to run on), but has a small stream to run through or over at the start & finish, course different every week depending on state of the tide. Theirs no steep bank or grass/sand areas to run on.
    Plus there are free photos of all participants towards the finish near every week

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      We went by some recent studies on all the parkrun data, that said Yarmouth was the hardest.. would love to try portrush soon. We walked for miles on that beach last summer and know how good the parkrun community is there!

  • @nealwailing3870
    @nealwailing3870 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why don't you run for Vegan Runners? Just asking...

    • @BenParkes
      @BenParkes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm a member of Serpentine RC!

  • @Ruffnreddyrunner
    @Ruffnreddyrunner 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can it be called a PARKrun if there isn’t a park 😂

  • @janief4640
    @janief4640 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Woolacombe is definitely harder than that!