Totally agree Sage. In my case (I race XCM and ultra-XCM) power meter is indeed really helpful, as I cycle a lot trough long steady terrain and long climbs, and it's helpul to manage my effort during the race. I also use it on my road bike. Thanks for sharing this amazing video with us. Great edition too. RIDE ON
@@TrailSageI ride 90% on paved roads, but my bicycle is a 29er full suspension XC bicycle (2012 Giant Anthem). I have smooth tires so I can ride longer +100km rides on the bicycle fairly easily and don't ride with other people I would need to keep up with so haven't bought a road bike yet. I ride for fitness and transportation to shops etc. so I have figured it doesn't matter how fast or slow the bike is for me, I can spend the same watts going slower on my bicycle and get the same amount of exercise with a shorter distance. I want to get power meter though so I would have objective measurement and something to later compare to if I ever get a road bicycle, but one question I'm wondering: Is there something about full suspension and the bobbing that would make the power meter unreliable on a full suspension mtb? I understand it measures the power I put through the pedals and so assume if the suspension is causing me losses, I would see this in more power spent according to the meter (this is what I hope at least) but haven't really seen any scientific answer to this question. Basically I'm wondering if the power meters are as reliable on a bicycle with full suspension, or could they be underreporting the watts used for some reason to the dynamics of the suspension. So for example power meter showing only 200w while on a mtb but 225w on road bicycle when exact same physical effort is spent on a flat road.
@@cyberfunk3793Fantastic question! There is no question that a full suspension will be less efficient (for many of the reasons you described). As for how much, that I can't tell you. However if the goal is to monitor your efforts, I don't know if this will matter too much. I would suggest combining the powermeter with a heart rate monitor because you will get a better sense of how much effort you are exerting as a whole. Hope that helps.
@@TrailSageYes I have a heart rate strap and also a sensor for it in my watch. I'm not so worried about the loss of power which is to be expected, I'm basically worried if the power meter readings are accurate between different bicycle types so one can compare their own physical performance on any bike objectively. Maybe a good way to explain it even more clearly: If I had a perfect bicycle riding robot that always outputs exactly 200w, I would want the power meter to show that 200w no matter if the robot is riding a full suspension bicycle or a road bicycle. I'm worried that with the suspension, there could be a systematic error that causes the powermeter to be inaccurate on that type of bicycle which would make tracking one's fitness level hard when not riding just one type of bicycle. If you for example do some FTP test on how many average watts you can produce in 20 minutes according to a power meter, do you get the same results on a full suspension mtb and road bicycle if you are riding on the same flat track?
@@cyberfunk3793 Awesome, I'm glad you are using a HR monitor. And yes, I totally understand what you are saying. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to measure how much loss having suspension will have. Sorry. This might be a question for a physics professor.
great to see an honest opinion. I am fairly new to the mtb seen and been wondering about a power meter. i have them on my road and tt bikes but like you mentioned mtb biking is so much different. I have learnt skills i would never have tried on the road bike, and at 63 years old bring it on.
Great job on the video. It still blows my mind things like power meters and computers are on bikes. I needed this video for some motivation for a ride today!
Great content! I've always wondered about getting a power meter for my mountain bike. I think it would be cool to analyze power after a ride but your point about not being able to look at power numbers during technical riding seems really reasonable. Probably better upgrades for the money.
For the money I would agree. Although Stages does make good stuff. Perhaps we should ride more flow trail and then I would actually be able to look at my computer 😂😂
Excellent video Sage! Really good points-monitoring your cycling, running or workouts are super helpful-I'm not a numbers person- so not really for me- but so many people are!! Your videos are so good!! The content, the production...everything! The bloopers most of all!! Hahaha!! Awesome!!
I try to pretend like I don't care about numbers, but find myself staring at them all too much, lol. Thanks for watching Kirsten, I miss you guys. Did you find my replacement on Fitness Friends yet? I feel like the market for half Asian mountain bikers is prob pretty slim.
@@TrailSage you're unreplaceable!! We are having guests on Fitness Friends (we are hoping that maybe you will come back after awhile!) @yourpalmisty is our first guest and we air this Thursday!!
Thanks for the great topic. I bought myself Garmin Rally pedals. I can change a power meter on every bike easily, and I always ride with mtb shoes. Garmin Edge calculates the vo2max value for me every ride, and I can see easy and difficult sections of the route from the data. A useless purchase in itself, but a nice addition for someone interested in data like me. In addition, now I can better assess the difficulty of the routes, when I know how much power I have to use on any section. Ascents are especially easier to estimate in advance just by studying the map. For example, with my riding style, a 5% increase goes with 150-200 watts and so on. I already had a pretty good experience of riding with power, because I also ride on a trainer. Now I also see how riding a trainer compares to the real world riding.
@TrailSage Working great so far. I'm riding in extreme cold, and the power seems to be ok or at feels the same as in normal temperatures. I compared to the wahoo kickr core, and it was a bit higher power in rally. Not by much, though. Rally needs to be tightened properly.
I'm always so impressed by your videos and editing! I bought a Garmin GPS watch several years ago when I was training for my first half marathon. I used it ALL the time. I initially got it so that I wouldn't have to plan out routes in advance but still know how much longer I needed to run. I loved it, and it was so much fun loved at the numbers afterwards. Over time, though, I felt like it started to take a little of the joy out of running. I was thinking about those numbers during my run instead of enjoying the activity and the outdoors. I still use the watch sometimes to look at mileage, but it's nice to leave it in the door sometimes too and just enjoy the outdoors😊
I totally agree Michelle, the numbers can take the fun out of running and riding. Unfortunately for my weekday training they are a necessary evil. On the plus side my weekend rides are all about fun ;) Thank you for all the kind words and comments!
Way cool Sage! I've only recently started my deep research into power for runners, so it's very cool to see that this is available to cyclists as well! Very cool! Keep pushing my friend!
Interesting. Very similar to using pace or HR as a runner. On the road it is easy as it is generally a consistent effort. On the trail it’s just like mtn biking. Punchy climbs, obstacles and all that effect the HR.
Great video Sage, very interesting and exciting to make evaluations. Depending on the application and riding style, this can be a good solution to develop further. Thanks for sharing and your thoughts buddy. As always awesome editing and nice overlays. Keep up the good work and have a nice week. Ride on🤙
Very interesting. I remember looking at Garmin power meter price tag awhile back. In running it is same. Stryd makes a shoe power meter which is popular for road runners but most say it is worthless for trail runners.
That’s a pretty cool riding accessory. I wonder if a Garmin foot sensor and wearing a HR monitor would give a similar data. Although It may not be as accurate. This looks like a great accessory for those serious road riders! Awesome video Sage!
Great concise vid - super helpful and logical. I have access to place in mountains of NC where I do a lot of off road. I get your point about not needing a power meter for most of us on MTB trail. But, I use my mountain bike for sprint and Olympic TRI here in FL. My Santa Cruz MTB was super expensive, so I don't want to now buy a road bike. In my case would you recommend the power meter for road work with MTB. I am looking at the XC200 since already in Garmin ECO system with the 840 Edge. Also, would the addition of road tires on MTB make a big difference on the road races?? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks - J
Thanks JK. I would say in your case a power meter would be great since you are planning on training with it. Regarding, your second question, I've never tried running road tires on a mountain bike so I can't really advise you on that. However I would imagine it would reduce the drag greatly on the road.
Nice, honest review. Just out of interest, how far do you have to drive for MTB trails? Or better question, how far would you be willing to ride (on road) to get to the trails?
Thanks James. The closest trail head is 6 miles and 500 ft of elevation, so I would be adding 12 miles and 1000ft on top of the ride. I used to do it all the time but time is tight these days.
I've had a Stages power meter on the road bike for 8 years. This year I sent my M8000 crank from Scotland to Colorado to get a factory fitted one for the MTB as they had no pre built ones in stock. It broke on the first ride, I got my money back. Not sure what to do as I ride mostly MTB nowadays because of the traffic in my area :( I can setup an indoor trainer which I don't mind and I have an Ebike for commuting which has really good data including rider power ( Specialized ).
Sorry to learn about your broken power meter. As for getting an indoor trainer, I think that is a wonderful idea. A few of my friends have one and absolutely swear by them.
im an enthusiast level mountain biker meaning it's my main hobby , i'm passionate about it , but i don't race , nor would i consider doing mtb trips abroad. i guess a power meter isnt for me
Totally agree Sage. In my case (I race XCM and ultra-XCM) power meter is indeed really helpful, as I cycle a lot trough long steady terrain and long climbs, and it's helpul to manage my effort during the race.
I also use it on my road bike.
Thanks for sharing this amazing video with us. Great edition too. RIDE ON
Right on Andrade. Power meters in the right settings can be so helpful. Thanks for the feedback!
@@TrailSageI ride 90% on paved roads, but my bicycle is a 29er full suspension XC bicycle (2012 Giant Anthem). I have smooth tires so I can ride longer +100km rides on the bicycle fairly easily and don't ride with other people I would need to keep up with so haven't bought a road bike yet.
I ride for fitness and transportation to shops etc. so I have figured it doesn't matter how fast or slow the bike is for me, I can spend the same watts going slower on my bicycle and get the same amount of exercise with a shorter distance. I want to get power meter though so I would have objective measurement and something to later compare to if I ever get a road bicycle, but one question I'm wondering: Is there something about full suspension and the bobbing that would make the power meter unreliable on a full suspension mtb? I understand it measures the power I put through the pedals and so assume if the suspension is causing me losses, I would see this in more power spent according to the meter (this is what I hope at least) but haven't really seen any scientific answer to this question. Basically I'm wondering if the power meters are as reliable on a bicycle with full suspension, or could they be underreporting the watts used for some reason to the dynamics of the suspension. So for example power meter showing only 200w while on a mtb but 225w on road bicycle when exact same physical effort is spent on a flat road.
@@cyberfunk3793Fantastic question! There is no question that a full suspension will be less efficient (for many of the reasons you described). As for how much, that I can't tell you. However if the goal is to monitor your efforts, I don't know if this will matter too much. I would suggest combining the powermeter with a heart rate monitor because you will get a better sense of how much effort you are exerting as a whole. Hope that helps.
@@TrailSageYes I have a heart rate strap and also a sensor for it in my watch.
I'm not so worried about the loss of power which is to be expected, I'm basically worried if the power meter readings are accurate between different bicycle types so one can compare their own physical performance on any bike objectively.
Maybe a good way to explain it even more clearly: If I had a perfect bicycle riding robot that always outputs exactly 200w, I would want the power meter to show that 200w no matter if the robot is riding a full suspension bicycle or a road bicycle. I'm worried that with the suspension, there could be a systematic error that causes the powermeter to be inaccurate on that type of bicycle which would make tracking one's fitness level hard when not riding just one type of bicycle.
If you for example do some FTP test on how many average watts you can produce in 20 minutes according to a power meter, do you get the same results on a full suspension mtb and road bicycle if you are riding on the same flat track?
@@cyberfunk3793 Awesome, I'm glad you are using a HR monitor. And yes, I totally understand what you are saying. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to measure how much loss having suspension will have. Sorry. This might be a question for a physics professor.
great to see an honest opinion. I am fairly new to the mtb seen and been wondering about a power meter. i have them on my road and tt bikes but like you mentioned mtb biking is so much different. I have learnt skills i would never have tried on the road bike, and at 63 years old bring it on.
Right on David! I love reading comments like this. Keep pushing my friend.
Won’t ever use one myself, but yet another solid review. I just like watching them just for the quality and production you put into these.
Dude that means a lot. Thank you for the continued support and love brotha!
Great job on the video. It still blows my mind things like power meters and computers are on bikes. I needed this video for some motivation for a ride today!
Tim the technology is overwhelming at times, lol. Glad I could provide a little motivation for your ride.
Thanks for the great insight, much appreciated 👍
Right on. Thank you for watching and commenting. Sage
Great content! I've always wondered about getting a power meter for my mountain bike. I think it would be cool to analyze power after a ride but your point about not being able to look at power numbers during technical riding seems really reasonable. Probably better upgrades for the money.
For the money I would agree. Although Stages does make good stuff. Perhaps we should ride more flow trail and then I would actually be able to look at my computer 😂😂
@@TrailSage If power meters mean more flow trails then I'm officially anti-power meter. ;-)
@@TheRideAbides 😆😆
Thanks!
Your content is superb!!! Just wanted to thank you for all the work you put in!! Amazing!!
@@KirstenQuickFit OMG THANK YOU! #notworthy
@@TrailSage Just a small way to encourage you that you are right where you need to be!!
Excellent video Sage! Really good points-monitoring your cycling, running or workouts are super helpful-I'm not a numbers person- so not really for me- but so many people are!! Your videos are so good!! The content, the production...everything! The bloopers most of all!! Hahaha!! Awesome!!
I try to pretend like I don't care about numbers, but find myself staring at them all too much, lol. Thanks for watching Kirsten, I miss you guys. Did you find my replacement on Fitness Friends yet? I feel like the market for half Asian mountain bikers is prob pretty slim.
@@TrailSage you're unreplaceable!! We are having guests on Fitness Friends (we are hoping that maybe you will come back after awhile!) @yourpalmisty is our first guest and we air this Thursday!!
@@KirstenQuickFit Yes!!!! Misty is the best!!!
Thanks for the great topic. I bought myself Garmin Rally pedals. I can change a power meter on every bike easily, and I always ride with mtb shoes. Garmin Edge calculates the vo2max value for me every ride, and I can see easy and difficult sections of the route from the data. A useless purchase in itself, but a nice addition for someone interested in data like me. In addition, now I can better assess the difficulty of the routes, when I know how much power I have to use on any section. Ascents are especially easier to estimate in advance just by studying the map. For example, with my riding style, a 5% increase goes with 150-200 watts and so on. I already had a pretty good experience of riding with power, because I also ride on a trainer. Now I also see how riding a trainer compares to the real world riding.
Interesting? How do you like the Rally pedals? Are they accurate on a MTB? Are you nervous about hitting them on something while riding?
@TrailSage Working great so far. I'm riding in extreme cold, and the power seems to be ok or at feels the same as in normal temperatures. I compared to the wahoo kickr core, and it was a bit higher power in rally. Not by much, though. Rally needs to be tightened properly.
@@Jcool721 Ah. Ok good to know. Thanks for sharing.
I'm always so impressed by your videos and editing! I bought a Garmin GPS watch several years ago when I was training for my first half marathon. I used it ALL the time. I initially got it so that I wouldn't have to plan out routes in advance but still know how much longer I needed to run. I loved it, and it was so much fun loved at the numbers afterwards. Over time, though, I felt like it started to take a little of the joy out of running. I was thinking about those numbers during my run instead of enjoying the activity and the outdoors. I still use the watch sometimes to look at mileage, but it's nice to leave it in the door sometimes too and just enjoy the outdoors😊
I totally agree Michelle, the numbers can take the fun out of running and riding. Unfortunately for my weekday training they are a necessary evil. On the plus side my weekend rides are all about fun ;) Thank you for all the kind words and comments!
Another great review with impressive footage and info Sage! Missed this as I was not at home those days! Best wishes mate!
No worries Mihai, thanks for watching!
The best video, I tried to find this video, thanks
Thanks for watching and the kind words
Outtakes ftw 😁👍🏻
Thx Mark!
Way cool Sage! I've only recently started my deep research into power for runners, so it's very cool to see that this is available to cyclists as well! Very cool! Keep pushing my friend!
Yeah, I've been curious about those devices for runners too. If you get or try one let me know how it goes.
Interesting. Very similar to using pace or HR as a runner. On the road it is easy as it is generally a consistent effort. On the trail it’s just like mtn biking. Punchy climbs, obstacles and all that effect the HR.
Great point Steven. HR might be the most important metric anyway. Thanks for watching!
Very good stuff buddy 👌 Quality content as always 🙏
Thx Ville
Great video Sage, very interesting and exciting to make evaluations. Depending on the application and riding style, this can be a good solution to develop further. Thanks for sharing and your thoughts buddy. As always awesome editing and nice overlays. Keep up the good work and have a nice week. Ride on🤙
Thanks Christoph. I think you are right, in the right situation it could be very helpful.
Very interesting. I remember looking at Garmin power meter price tag awhile back. In running it is same. Stryd makes a shoe power meter which is popular for road runners but most say it is worthless for trail runners.
Interesting! I guess there are just so many other things happening with our bodies when we are on the trails. Thanks for watching Richard
That’s a pretty cool riding accessory. I wonder if a Garmin foot sensor and wearing a HR monitor would give a similar data. Although It may not be as accurate. This looks like a great accessory for those serious road riders! Awesome video Sage!
I have never tried a foot sensor but it sounds like it might be similar. Thanks for watching Gill!
Great info about meters. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Right on Brian. If you are still thinking about a Power Meter I would highly recommend Stages.
Awesome, very useful. Thanks.
Thanks for watching and commenting Lorenzo!
Maybe if you did always the same trail you could measure your improvements over time? Cool video as usual. Really well edited bloopers too!
True but you don't need a power meter to do that. Apps like Strava will track how well you did on any particular segment. Thanks for watching Steph!
@@TrailSage Ah true...
Honestly didn't even know these were a thing until now! Guess that answers if I needed one or not😂
Ha! It's not worth it for the MTB anyway Zane. Thanks for watching brotha
Great concise vid - super helpful and logical. I have access to place in mountains of NC where I do a lot of off road. I get your point about not needing a power meter for most of us on MTB trail. But, I use my mountain bike for sprint and Olympic TRI here in FL. My Santa Cruz MTB was super expensive, so I don't want to now buy a road bike. In my case would you recommend the power meter for road work with MTB. I am looking at the XC200 since already in Garmin ECO system with the 840 Edge. Also, would the addition of road tires on MTB make a big difference on the road races?? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks - J
Thanks JK. I would say in your case a power meter would be great since you are planning on training with it. Regarding, your second question, I've never tried running road tires on a mountain bike so I can't really advise you on that. However I would imagine it would reduce the drag greatly on the road.
Video so beautiful🚴🚴💯❤thanks for sharing my dear friend💝🙏
Thanks for watching.
Nice, honest review. Just out of interest, how far do you have to drive for MTB trails? Or better question, how far would you be willing to ride (on road) to get to the trails?
Thanks James. The closest trail head is 6 miles and 500 ft of elevation, so I would be adding 12 miles and 1000ft on top of the ride. I used to do it all the time but time is tight these days.
@@TrailSage ah I see… my nearest proper trails is about 15 miles. Hoping to get there on Thursday!
I've had a Stages power meter on the road bike for 8 years. This year I sent my M8000 crank from Scotland to Colorado to get a factory fitted one for the MTB as they had no pre built ones in stock. It broke on the first ride, I got my money back. Not sure what to do as I ride mostly MTB nowadays because of the traffic in my area :( I can setup an indoor trainer which I don't mind and I have an Ebike for commuting which has really good data including rider power ( Specialized ).
Sorry to learn about your broken power meter. As for getting an indoor trainer, I think that is a wonderful idea. A few of my friends have one and absolutely swear by them.
Hi friend! good video and thanks for sharing 👍 greetings
Thanks for watching Ivan
I like being able to see my total TSS each week, I don't really care what my power is when I'm trail riding.
Yeah, I would have to agree. The focus in trail riding should be more about having fun. Thanks for commenting.
The answer is definitely no for me 😂 I'm sure they're good for plenty of folks out there though 👍
I agree, at least on the MTB. It has been amazing on the road bike though. Thanks for watching Martin
im an enthusiast level mountain biker meaning it's my main hobby , i'm passionate about it , but i don't race , nor would i consider doing mtb trips abroad.
i guess a power meter isnt for me
I found it not to be helpful on my MTB. I do however use it all the time on my road bike and love it. Sage
ما شاء الله بالتوفيق والنجاح 👍👍
Thank you for watching
Saved me 300$
Ha! Right on Dimitrios.
that was a surpise.... ok ... power metter in a mtb well
Yeah. Probably not the best way to spend your money, lol.
For me i dont need power meter.. other person possible needs
Yeah, probably better to save your money. Thanks for watching.
video so beautiful
my friend
w4455556
Thanks for watching
th-cam.com/video/SiMHTK15Pik/w-d-xo.html
the original power meter
lol!!!
good beard
Thanks!