Pale Moonlight is my favorite DS9 episode. Shows how far you are willing to go to survive. Your beliefs and honor go out the window when faced with survival.
DS9 is the best Trek series but it also couldn’t exist or be that good without the infrastructure and build-up provided by TNG. I also agree DS9 is the best Trek ever. When it was on the air it was easily the best writing on television.
It truly needs a remaster/restoration for its legacy. It's criminal that DS9 and Voyager remain the unloved siblings of the franchise in this regard. I've already purchased both series on DVD twice. Not holding my breath for BluRay editions, but still hoping. I would be there for both projects.
It's just so exciting to watch the slow transformation of the characters; Kira, Odo, the Siskos, the Ferengi, Garak and of course Dukat, as their world unfolds.
@@simonfrederiksen104 They really got to develop the characters since the show wasn't as episodic as the others. It also helps that the actors were fantastic, many already veterans of stage and tv. Rene being able to portray so much emotion despite the mask is so much fun to watch.
The top 3 is my top 3, but I am torn on the top 2, either could be #1. I do really like Enterprise, and would put it far higher, I enjoyed being tied up in canon. Glad to see the newer ones near the bottom, maybe or maybe not for the same reason the presenter gave.
Everybody now seems to agree with you! Ha - it’s not the mid 90’s anymore... I totally remember having huge arguments with Trek friends at that time who were adamant that DS9 wasn’t really Roddenberry’s utopian Trek - too dark and brooding - too militaristic - too funny!! 20 years later and it’s now fully appreciated by most Hmmm 🤔 - funny how that works I have similar arguments today with those same Trek friends about New Trek
The more I see you, the more I love you Kyle. My list would be not entirely different than yours but definitely different nonetheless. Enterprise and Beyond would be higher. The Search for Spock and Star Trek the motion picture would be lower, but I hear you on your justifications. ...And if I could be so crude... I would love to ride your Horga'hn and give you the best Oo-Mox of your life then hold you while you read to me (Even the phonebook.) my Trekspert crush! Joking/not joking. 😜
Beyond basically gave up on the character arcs that the first two reboot movies had. It was just a side-show to some larger plotline that is probably never going to be made.
Undiscovered Country is one of my favourites, I'd put it much higher up. Dito for First Contact. The Enterprise Theme is spectacular!! Wrath of Khan would probably be my #1. Star Trek The Movie is indeed probably the most scientific and has spectacular scenes inspired by 2001, but it just draaaags on too much.
The thing I most dislike about UC is Kirk being subdued by the plot. He's silenced (like in the dinner scene) or given unbelievable dialogue like, "I never forgave the Klingons for the death of my son." --- as if anyone had ever asked him for forgiveness. This theme really foreshadows thhe modern destructive hyper-self-awareness of Westerners; the applying unreachable standards to oneself while tolerating so much worse in others in the name of one's supposed virtue. Best score of all the Trek movies, but possibly the worst thematically.
Minority opinion, but I think Into Darkness is an underrated movie. At its core, it has an interesting and very timely Star Trek message about the morality of drone strikes and how Western societies respond to acts of terrorism and, in some ways, create our own enemies. On top of which, it's a lot of fun. I feel like people can't see past the whole Cumberbatch-as-Khan thing to appreciate it for what it is.
I love ranking videos like this. The one thing I always have to say is that Nemesis should always be low for it's treatment of Troi. She deserved better.
I also LOVE that you put Generations so high. It's up there for me too and I feel like it doesn't get enough love. Then again, it was my first one in theaters. I was 5 or 6?
Ds9 is the best for character development, story lines, worf, the dominion wow it had it all. The motion picture was awful when I first saw it, but now it is the best, it’s a star trek that I had to revisit many times before I saw the story, and that is science fiction where the motive of story has to be fleshed out over time for the viewer to see what the true meaning of the story is. Great choices thanks for the hard work.
13 Star Trek 5 the final frontier 12 Star Trek nemesis 11 Star Trek insurrection 10 Star Trek the motion picture 9 Star Trek generations 8 Star Trek into darkness 7 Star Trek 3 the search for Spock 6 Star Trek 2009 5 Star Trek beyond 4 Star Trek 4 the voyage home 3 Star Trek 6 the undiscovered country 2 Star Trek first contact 1 Star Trek 2 the wrath of Khan
I think the reboot movies get a bad rap. Having characters grow over the course of the movie (except for Beyond, which was kind of a letdown) is something that only a few Star Trek movies have. And all of the stupidity of starships crashing into cities and Kirk being revived with superblood pales in comparison to the stupid stuff that happens in, say, TNG, which is played just as straight and dramatically. All of the TNG movies totally unravel (not just with plot holes, but thematically) when inspected as closely as they seem to want you to.
Agreed. It's dead last on mine. It's a pretty bland and plothole-filled mess imo. I agree with him that it does have some decent character moments, but overall it just doesn't work for me. Plus the lame way they killed Kirk never sat right with me, especially when the TOS cast was already given a perfect send-off at the end of Star Trek VI. I even like it better than Star Trek V. While I realize that V is probably a worse movie if you look at it objectively, it's still more fun to watch imo and the scene where McCoy is confronting the pain he felt when he lost his father is genuinely well done and is perhaps the best performance DeForest Kelly ever delivered in Star Trek
No kidding. Kirk and Picard together on screen. What do they do with this much anticipated opportunity? Kirk chops wood, cooks breakfast, rides horses with Picard and then gets killed. Still better than anything from Bad Reboot.
I disagree with Lower Decks I'd say it's the best new trek series... But the rest whilst I don't have the same order as you I agree with your analysis of them. Film wise tho our opinions couldnt be more different...
I’m please to see DS9 placed appropriately! I was surprised to find I agreed 100% with your ranking. I was under the impression we disagreed on modern Trek for some reason but your placement is fair, and dare I say, ‘correct!’
Great list. In regard to the series ranking, I have Enterprise at #3 (yes, I know that is way too high for some people). The third and fourth seasons in ENT were the very best of Star Trek, I loved the season story arc and the time travel didn't bother me. Here is my list: 1. DS9 2. TNG 3.ENT 4. VOY 5. OS 6. Disc 7. Picard 8. Lower Decks 9. Animated Series.... I'm curious if anyone else enjoyed ENT as much as I did.
Yeah, my dad (who watched TOS original run and every series since) favorite is Enterprise. I enjoyed enterprise quite a bit ---- they had the trinity of Archer/Tpol/Trip who worked well together and I enjoyed the season arcs... A shame they didn't get that S5.... It's high on my list but below DS9/TNG/VOY...
I really like your content... With the vlog shots, I'd like to suggest zooming out a bit. The framing you're using is a bit too intense and I find it extremely distracting compared to the soothing tone of your content. Keep up the good work :)
Love this ranking. Lot I agree with, and just a few disagreements. My ranking: 1. DS9 2. Next Generation 3. Voyager 4. Enterprise 5. Original 6. Picard 7. Discovery Films: 1. First Contact 2. Wrath of Khan 3. Undiscovered Country 4. Motion Picture 5. Voyage Home 6. Beyond 7. Insurrection 8. Star Trek (2009) 9. Into Darkness 10. Generations 11. Search for Spock 12. Nemesis 13. The Final Frontier
Movies: 1. The Undiscovered Country - I love this movie and feel it has always been underrated by the Trek community. I really enjoyed the political intrigue which sets the tone of the Federation - Klingon relationship for TNG and DS9. Christopher Plummer is a brilliant villain as Chang. Kim Cattrall and David Warner are fantastic in their appearances as well. 2. The Wrath of Khan 3. The Voyage Home 4. First Contact 5. The Motion Picture - Also very underrated. Happy to see it so high on your list. 6. Insurrection - Actually, the fact that it's basically a ho-hum 2 part episode of TNG with better special effects is what I like about it. 7. Generations - Honestly I was surprised by how high you ranked it. I may need to rewatch. 8. The Search for Spock 9. Nemesis - I'll have to check out those deleted scenes you mentioned! 10. The Final Frontier - At least its not all action shlock, unlike the films below. 11. Trek 2009 12. Into Darkness 13. Beyond TV Shows: 1. TNG 2. DS9 3. TOS 4. Enterprise - The last 2 seasons were much stronger than the first 2. 5. Voyager - Much of the cast is pretty vanilla. The only characters I really liked were Janeway and Tuvok. 6. TAS 7. Short Treks 8. Lower Decks 9. Discovery 10. Picard - a true disappointment. Your Channel is great. Keep it up!!!
I very nearly agree completely with your series ranking. I'd personally bring Lower Decks up to #7 - between Short Treks and Enterprise. But ya damn near nailed it.
Very similar in terms of series. I liked Lower Decks more than Discovery or Picard because I had lower expectations. As for TNG or DS9 for #1 I keep going back and forth. DS9 was the better show by any conventional measure, but TNG meant more to me than any other media ever has. It's more than just nostalgia; it was formative. Another knock against DS9 is that it was the show that started picking holes in the Trek philosophy. Granted it did it far more thoughtfully than later shows would, but it was still the show that put the focus increasingly on war stories and gave us Section 31. To me the unique aspect of TOS and TNG was the idea of "What if humanity were better? What then?" Ever since DS9 it has been "Yes that's nice, but it's not very likely is it? What if it all kept falling apart?"
It seems to me that DS9 has gradually risen to be a fan favorite. At the time when it originally aired, it was usually overshadowed by TNG and Voyager. Lots of Trek fans complained that it was too dark, too serialized, and contradicted Roddenberry’s vision. I’m glad to see it more widely appreciated. Though I must confess, I love Babylon 5 most of all ;)
Third and fourth seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise are some of the BEST Trek ever made; hands down. I am currently re-watching the S3 and, among many other positives, I must point out Degra and his character arc which are absolutely epic. Over the years, ENT gradually became my second most favourite ST show, only bettered by the astonishing DS9. Among others, Archer and Sisko are the only captains who undergo any character development over the course of their respective shows and certain events they happened to experience had lasting impacts on them, which unfortunately cannot be said about the other TV outings. By the finales of the remaining shows, Kirk on TOS, Picard on TNG and Janeway on VOY are essentially exactly the same people they were on the individual pilots and the creators thereof came across to seemingly "relish" in staunchly keeping the given shows' Status Quo intact, no matter what. As such, Voyager, for example, entirely failed its amazing original premise and concept à la Lost in Space and ENT's whole third season, in retrospect, is what VOY should have been like as a show. Every time I watch ENT, I simply cannot overcome the feelings of disappointment, caused by the show's being prematurely cancelled after just 4 seasons. Such sadness!! :-(
Non-trekkie here, just doing some needed research. But I'll leave a LIKE because of this 9:20 very *_introverted_* eyebrow gesture which I appreciate & makes me want to be friends with the narrator-guy. 17:12 ~ that subspace below 19:56 ~ the sigh of relief 🥲
I agree with pretty much all the rankings, except I'd move Lower Decks top of the latter-day Trek stuff (although I haven't seen the Short Treks, due to Discovery boring me into a stupor - I might check them out now), and ST: Beyond top of the Kelvin films. But DS9 top of the series is incontrovertible fact, even on a highly subjective list.
What most fans think of the kelvin movies is just that they're bland action and no story. I could not agree more with your comment. The character arc between kirk and spock was written very well and they have very good character development (in into darkness (the warp core scene)). Even the background characters feel like real people (especially checkov and mccoy). The films have themes and lessons, the constant pew pew kind of hides this Star trek 2009: logic vs emotion with nero and spock Star trek into darkness: human rights (in context of who lives and who doesn't) Star trek beyond: philosophical question: are we more vulnerable because we have more friends?/ do we rely on those who might let us down? Explored in Kralls philosophy. The kelvin movies have much more that you can learn from. Most fans just don't put their attention in those films because stupid reasons..... some people say that those films are not star trek or something. As a excuse for the older films they just say that they at least tried to explore something trekkish. Fans have forgotten what TRUE star trek is (not voy, tng, ent ,tmp, ds9....) TOS is true star trek. The kelvin movies got a lot of references to old star trek (especially tos). They simply think something new, fresh and exciting will never be as good as the original. Tng and other shows back in the day started to grow on the fans. But today, the fans are soo closed that any new iteration of star trek becomes unacceptable.
DS9 deserves the top spot. The characters and relationships and the way everything builds onto each other while focusing on questioning the very foundation of Star Trek makes it the quintessential show of the franchise.
Shows 1. Voyager This is my favorite because I think it has some of the most thought-provoking episodes. It also has some of the best characters. There were some bland ones, but Janeway, The Doctor, and Seven all make it worthwhile! 2. The Next Generation This show is so fun. I have a lot of good memories of watching it with my mom when I was younger so it is kinda like comfort food for me. It also has so many deep and emotional scenes in addition to thought-provoking episodes 3. Enterprise I love the characters in the show! I think there are some elements I don't like as much like the time travel stuff but I think there are a lot of interesting ideas here. 4. Lower Decks I love the humor of this show! It is pretty funny and a lot cleaner than The Orville. I think the show is also deep enough at times that it is more than just reference humor. 5. Picard I loved the nostalgia of seeing Picard again and I was glad that he finally got to say goodbye to Data. There were a lot of moving moments in the show and the mystery was interesting, but I was bothered by the language and the serialized storytelling. I also thought the show was a bit aggressive in demonizing Starfleet and making things seem so dour all the time. 6. Deep Space Nine This was another one that I only saw a little bit. The characters are fun but the storylines are also a bit more serialized. I also love the discovery of finding new planets and its harder to do that with a space station. I am planning to give it another watch soon 7. The Original Series I admittedly haven't watched this one as much, but I think that some of the episodes can be pretty dated and slow. I want to rewatch it and give it another chance soon though. 8. Discovery Placing this show here was a tough choice because I thought season 2 was amazing, but the first season was terrible and the last season was interesting, but not quite as good as season 2. While the serialized storytelling can work when there is an interesting mystery like seasons 2 and 3, I just don't like serialization as much as the episodic structure of other series. 9. The Animated Series I never really got into this one because the episodes and creatures in it were a bit weird. Also, I love Chekov, so it was weird that he wasn't in this show. Movies 1. Star Trek: First Contact This movie is wonderful! It explores Picard's trauma after the Borg and it shows a critical scene in the history of the federation. It also weaves this expertly into a Moby-Dick adaptation and the scene where Picard quotes Melville is so powerful. Also, the soundtrack is beautiful. 2. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan This film is so great! Khan is an intimidating presence who poses a real presence and his desire for revenge makes sense. Spock's sacrifice is so sad and it has a real weight even when you know what will happen in the next movie. 3. Star Trek Into Darkness I enjoyed this film's look at taking familiar events from a different perspective and I think the larger message about fear and how we should remember who we are was a great message for the time and still a great message now 4. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country I think this film has an interesting mystery and s great at capturing the divisions that can tear people apart. 5. Star Trek (2009) I have some wonderful memories of watching this film in the theaters. The soundtrack and casting are amazing and I think the plot is pretty fun. It isn't the deepest movie, but it is fun to watch. 6. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home This is just a fun time-travel adventure. I think the jokes are more interesting than the story, but there are too many amusing moments not to have this film rank pretty high up there! 7. Star Trek Beyond I think this was a fun adventure and I liked the concept of people who were unable to adjust to the changes brought on by Star Trek. I found it a little hard to believe that Kirk would already be board with exploration and want a desk job though 8. Star Trek: Nemesis I think this movie has some interesting ideas about Nature vs Nurture and I cry whenever I see Data's death or hear "Blue Skies." It had some good nostalgia and it was nice to see a snippet of where the crew was going to head next. It is so tragic that Data didn't get a chance to be a first officer. 9. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock It is funny to see Christopher Llyod as a Klingon and fascinating to see McCoy acting like Spock. I don't think this film is amazing, but it's fun to watch. 10. Star Trek Generations Data is funny and some of the stuff with the Nexus is pretty good. This film is better at exploring Picard's desire for children and his regrets than "The Inner Light" is. At the same time, It isn't as impactful or interesting as it could be 11. Star Trek: Insurrection This one has a fun scene with Data freaking out, but the larger plot is the same as a season 7 episode and they do a better job with it there. The people on the planet are condescending and while I don't support forced relocation, there isn't enough justification for why they can't just move somewhere else. 12. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier This film is just awful! The weird dance Uhura does, finding God, Spock's brother he never talks about. It was just too bizarre, and not in an entertaining way either. The only part I like was the part with Kirk rockclimbing and hanging out with Spock and McCoy. I like these characters enough that it is fun to see them hang out together. 13. Star Trek: The Motion Picture I think this film is just really slow and boring. V-Ger's weirdness in human form is mildly interesting, but there are too many slow scenes or panning shots of the ship. I always skip this film.
When Voyager Hits the target, it's usually bullseye. I love equinox, Tuvix, year of hell, counterpoint. But when it misses, it can be really a horrible show. The Voyager theme is brilliant, too.
I re-edited STTMP cutting out almost 30 minutes. I showed it to someone who never seen it because everyone said it was too long and boring. Still didn't like it because he thought it was a rethread of "The Changeling" and lacked any excitement that would elevate the movie from the TV series. But I enjoy my edit of it and would never watch the longer version, director's cut or otherwise. Unless the director's cut was shorter than mine. Doubt.
How the hell did you rank Beyond below Into Dankness, Generations, and Nemesis? I'd argue it's above the reboot. Beyond at least had aspersions to be better movie than those.
I disagreed with a lot of your rankings, particularly when it came to the movies, but man, I did appreciate the love you showed Generations and The Motion Picture! I have a big soft spot for Generations myself. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
Series: 1 TNG (seasons 4-6 are perfection), 2 DS9 (amazing story and characters), 3 ENT (season 3 excellent), 4 DIS (season 2 brought Star Trek back), then VOY, PIC. Short Treks; Movies: 1 First Contact (great story), 2 Undiscovered Country (excellent) 3-6Khan - Voyage Home (great story, mega Kirk Spock McCoy), 7 ST Beyond (great update/ tie in to ENT, the rest whatever...
My film list is 1. Star Trek 2009 2. Star Trek 3: the search for Spock 3. Star Trek 2: the wrath of khan 4. Star Trek: first contact 5. Star Trek 4: the voyage home 6. Star Trek beyond 7. Star Trek 6: The undiscovered country 8. Star Trek: insurrection 9. Star Trek into Darkness 10. Star Trek generations 11. Star Trek: nemesis 12. Star Trek: the motion picture 13. Star Trek 5: The final frontier
Here's my ranking of the films: The Voyage Home: the one that most captures the spirit of Trek on TV. It's got something for all the characters to do, it's got social commentary, no villain, no on-screen deaths, tackles some of the same themes as TMP (probe sent to Earth looking for a response, logic vs emotion), but it's fun. It, rather than TWOK, should have served as the model for future Trek films. That said, when other films tried to learn from it (The Final Frontier, Insurrection), they only took from it that it was a comedy, and their sense of humor was a tad meaner than this film. The Undiscovered Country: the most cinematic of the TOS films, it was a genuine genre-busting thriller, mashing up courtroom dramas, with prison escapes, comedies of manners, submarine films, etc. First Contact: as with TWOK, it mined its parent series for a villain and created a similarly claustrophobic thrill ride. The Wrath of Khan: we have it to thank for the rest of the franchise. It brought humanity back to Trek, which was sorely missing from the extremely sterile TMP. That's the lesson the other films should have taken from it, not that all Trek films should have a vengeance-fueled villain. The Search for Spock: Yes, this film was a bridge between TWOK and TVH, but was also an important world-building film, giving us spacedock, the Oberth and Excelsior class ships, the Klingon Bird of Prey, and shaped a lot of what Klingons and Vulcans would be like from here on out. Generations: most people say that Insurrection is the film that most resembles a TNG episode, but I think it's this film. It's not so much the plot or the stakes, but the format of the story. There's a high-stakes A plot with an observatory and star-killing device, with civilians we've never met at stake, and a more character-based B-plot with Data and his emotion chip. Study the stellar cartography scene for dialogue that exactly fits the format of the Berman era on television (characters alternate the technobabble of the A-plot with the emotions of the B-plot, in a very specific style that was always a bit unusual, and specific to Trek. Into Darkness had something similar with the Uhura/Spock dialogue in the shuttlecraft). That said, the movie in quite cinematic and big. It was ambitious for trying to tackle the idea that icons don't necessarily die in an epic fashion. I really appreciate when films try to do this, but a lot of fans just want their heroes to satiate their fantasies, which is why they tend to react so strongly against final arcs for characters as seen in The Last Jedi or Picard. Generations kind of laid the groundwork for stories like that and Logan, all of which I liked. Beyond: its placement here is deceptive. It's a really solid film and clearly the best of the Kelvin films. It's no accident that the Kelvin films had lower death counts as they progressed. Like TVH, it made sure to give the ensemble something to do. And yes, like that film, it had unusual pairings. The villain was also slightly more benign than the previous ones. When he looked at the shard of glass, I hoped that maybe this would be the rare film where he actually sought some redemption, but alas. The only other problem I had with it was the destruction of the Enterprise and the receipt of any 1701-A. In TVH, the A designation was really special. It was a reward for saving the entire planet from its own shortsightedness, as well as the crews status as legends in their own time for their two five-year missions. Into Darkness kind of set this up, since they said no one ever completed a five-year deep space mission before. So, the 1701-A here felt kind of unearned. It would have probably been better if the ship had somehow been repaired, rather than scuttled and replaced. 2009: this one was a good, decent thrill ride that had a really inventive way of setting a new path forward in Trek films. It also kind of eased the transition to the new crop of TV shows. The new shows are closer in design to the Trek universe as established pre-2009 than the Kelvin films were. The cast was a dynamic roster of performers and the movie was fast and fun. It just had the same problem even the best JJ Abrams films tend to have, they are fun in the moment, but dissolve in retrospect (it's kind of the opposite of Rian Johnson movies, where plot twists seem shocking in the moment but absolutely inevitable and organically derived from the characters in retrospect). Insurrection: it's an okay film, and generally inoffensive, except the planet being saved is a tad too Aryan. It did finally push the Riker/Troi relationship into something a bit more serious than the deeply close friends who sometimes make out in TNG. It's a film that was notorious for having a really troubled writing phase, documented in Piller's book "Fade In." The Final Frontier: the film immediately following TVH (though it took three years, rather than the then typical two), it tried two things the previous film did: use a Trek regular star as the director and inject the film with humor. But because it was Shatner, the humor was often at the expense of the rest of the crew. And the film definitely had a cheaper look to it. That said, the Kirk/Spock/McCoy stuff was pretty good, and it did feature some classic TOS battles with godlike beings. You're right that it has kind of a camp quality to it. The Motion Picture: I rank this below The Final Frontier because, as ambitious as it was, and as much as it wanted to tackle some big ideas, it's painfully dull. That's one of the biggest sins a movie could make. I've even considered seeing if I could tackle a re-edit of the film, as many have done with The Phantom Menace, or similar. And yes, it does feature the classic Roddenberry blind spot of some pretty sexist ideas. Nemesis: this is another ambitious failure that I'd be interested in taking on as an editing project. It could have been good, but Berman's another one with an even more notorious misogyny streak. It's not just the rape scenes, but stuff like the casual sexism of the Mr. Troi joke. We could have cut a bunch of the Kolarus III stuff in favor of the character-based deleted scenes, particularly the one between Picard and Crusher. She never got much to do, so it would have been nice to give her a send-off, at the very least. And the Geordi/Worf scene would have at least provided Geordi some closure that he still didn't get in Star Trek: Picard. That said, the show did kind of redeem the film somewhat. Into Darkness: this film also suffers from JJ syndrome. It fell apart upon further scrutiny in the time since I left the theatre. But it's biggest crime of all was whitewashing Khan. Orci's explanation was that he didn't want the terrorist to look like the opponent's in Bush's "War on Terror," he wanted Khan to "look like us." But what does "us" mean in the context of a global Star Trek audience? It's damning that often casting will allow diversity when it comes to characters that have no development or even lines, but when it comes to characters as complex and charismatic as Khan, they get scared to look outside of white actors. Cumberbatch wasn't even that big a star compared to lateral move Benicio Del Toro. And Cumberbatch has made a habit of playing underrepresented people in other films. The very least they could have done was go to Bollywood and look for a charismatic, athletic actor hungry to crossover to Hollywood who could speak English, and even already had a following. They could have even gone with the actor who played Robau. It was laziness in the extreme, especially considering Khan was originally a character called Harold Erickson, a Scandinavian, but Roddenberry changed it to Khan because not all genetic supermen need be Aryan fantasies. Aside from that, the film continues JJ's male gaze from 2009 with the Caitians and with the underwear scene. And Lindelof gave an interview where he said he had the Vengeance level San Francisco because the budget demanded a spectacle at that point in the film. It's a crass reason for such destruction. That said, I'm not too offended by the cribbing of TWOK dialogue. It had the function of making the fans that recognized it believe Kirk was going to die. It wasn't there because the writers were lazy. If I should be offended by it, it would be because it's manipulative, but then movies always are.
Thank you for showing TAS some love. I grew up with TAS as the newest Trek and understood it as the 3rd season of TOS so for me TOS and TAS were the only trek available to watch. You have to start a Star Trek obsession somewhere!
1. DS9 Pretty self explanatory. The best of Trek. Similar reasons to you. 2. TNG Again, great Trek. Defines what Trek would be from the 1980s onwards. Of course some very problematic episodes, but the character build ups are absolutely perfect. The whole Sela storyline, Worf’s family, and the history of Riker and Troi are fun and entertaining. Data’s life and Geordi’s relationship to the ship are great. Crusher unfortunately got placed to the wayside of a lot of it, and even Picard to a certain degree. 3. DIS Here’s where we disagree. I like it because it is a fun story, it allows itself to be imperfect and not rigid to the code of perfect canon (since when is perspective of history always 100% true). We get an excellent exploration of the Mirror Universe in a way which has never occurred before. We see Klingons beyond the warrior stereotype. We see representation dealt with and used in ways which aren’t in the other series. We are introduced to some interesting scifi, like the tardigrade, spore drive, and the red explosions. It did focus on Burnham a bit too much in the beginning, but it seems to be making a course correction here. 4. TOS It’s here because it started it all. Same reasons to you. For me, some of the worse episodes are not redeemable to watch today. While others are entirely rewatchable again and again. The character development of Spock, Kirk, and Bones is absolutely iconic. 5. VOY It’s just meh. I feel like if Ron D Moore were given the reigns like he was in DS9, we would have gotten a better show (but instead we got Battlestar Galactica, so I’m not mad). A few great episodes, but Chakotay is basically a racist stereotype of indigenous people. Kim is kind of a creeper. Characters are not one note, but many of them aren’t dynamic. The Doctor has some of the best episodes. Seven of Nine has some interesting episodes. But knowing that Mulgrew did not get along with Ryan helps mar this one for me. 6. ENT Vanilla toast. Accurate. 7. PIC I just think we haven’t seen enough Picard. If we got to 5-6 seasons, maybe this will be higher. But right now we know next to nothing, and like almost every Trek series, S1 isn’t that great. 8. Short Treks They are great, but they don’t standalone really. They require some context from the others series. So not really a show to me as much. 9. TAS I can’t believe you put this higher. This is what Star Trek looks like on drugs. 10. Lower Decks I liked LD, but my partner did not. I am willing to put it lower (heh) because of the same reason for PIC: it’s S1. 1. Wrath of Kahn Great film. Not sure why it isn’t your number 1. This is where the scifi is at. 2. First Contact The Borg Queen. Picard FINALLY having to confront the death of his family AND his time with the Borg. All while seeing the first contact between the Vulcans and the Romulans. Great movie. Also, I’ll never forget “PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED”. Worf was about to bash the Defiant right into the Borg cube. I kind of wanted to see it. 3. The Undiscovered Country Finally, Klingons with some academic critique. Klingons who want peace and are still warriors. And done through the lens of Shakespeare. The only crime? The laughably pink blood. 4. Beyond The critique of the Federation, the step away from conspiracy and the Death Star-like Romulan “mining ship”. It’s a fun film. Cinematic, but not overdone. 5. Generations Picard forces Kirk to confront a different life and come back to his own life. We also see Picard with a family. A but less absurd, and pretty nice to see. 6. Insurrection Like you said, this film is like a 2-parter TNG episode. I just don’t see that as a bad thing. 7. The Voyage Home These films are absurd. We must travel back in time to capture a blue whale so it can communicate with the modern world. I mean…what?? 8. The Motion Picture Oof. I just don’t like this one. It’s mediocre. Yes, it is scifi. Yes, it is Trek. It’s the ENT of the film era. Vanilla Toast. 9. The Search for Spock How is this higher for you? “Spock’s soul is trapped inside Bones, and they must deliver it to a long lost corpse somewhere and teach that version of Spock how to eat, speak, and talk.” This film is absurd. It’s still a decent Trek film, but is so unbelievable. 10. Nemesis Clone Picard that looks absolutely nothing like Picard other than being bald. Seeing some Romulan stuff was cool, especially the Senate. But we never hear about Remans again. Data dies. We get that weird Picard hot-rod dune buggy scene. B4 (I mean, come on, you expect me to believe there is ANOTHER data out there somewhere?). Great story sprinkled with very awkward and weirds scenes. 11. Star Trek: 2009 Time traveling inconsistencies aside, this Trek is decent, but not good. It starts the whole updated graphics for Trek, which is great. But otherwise could go to the bargain bin at Walmart. 12. Into Darkness This whole film is nostalgia bait. Nothing original. Nothing good. We get these scenes that are clearly speaking to the audience rather than the characters (“I….AM…Kaaaaahhhhnnnnnn!” Kahn says to Spock and Kirk from behind his prison cell door). This is typical of JJ Abrams as well. His films are shit. He can’t write. His direction is lacking. He doesn’t have an original bone in his body. 13. The Final Frontier God. Row row row your boat. Hover boots. Sybok.
I posted my list on here. I didn't go into much detail on mine but I wanted to talk about a couple of yours briefly. DS9: Yeah, I completely agree. Even though we are saying it's the best I think it's underrated by nonTrek folk. TNG: I agree that Picard didn't get much but I talked about in my original comment that I wonder if it was for the best? Does it leave us with an artificially good impression of him the way he was portrayed in TNG? DIS: I never really thought about it that way. To me, it felt like these changes were forced. I don't care for pretty graphics but I was excited to see DIS and Star Trek 2009 reimagine Star Trek when they first came out. VOY: I couldn't agree with you more. It's just meh. Nemesis: I like the premise. I just wish I could go back in time and fix the movie.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was my introduction to Star Trek as a very young kid (age 3-4). Despite having no prior connection to the series whatsoever, I watched it alongside the original Star Wars as entertaining sci-fi. As I explored and appreciated all the series and films, Wrath of Khan is always the one I keep at the top not just for what it means to me but also for what it means to the franchise and how it can be considered one of the key moments of the franchise that saved/defined it.
I may be the only one, but I have lower decks way up in my top 3, above ds9. Partly because it fits my niche, partly because I thought it was going to be awful. But also... partly because of the reasons you have ds9 at number 1, there seems to be a growing deconstruction of starfleet ethics and questioning of the exisistence of the federation and its hierarchy. Cant wait for season 2
I would put Into Darkness at the bottom, as the most cynically made of the Trek movies. NGL I like the Motion Picture love. Slow burning sci fi is what Star Trek was in the Original Series, and this movie reflects that without getting boring at any point. All the moments people complain about from that movie are full of creativity and soul that gets ignored.
The only good thing about Lower Decks was Badgey. Other than that it was pretty bad. Picard...really destroyed everything the end of the other series tried setting up. Instead they destroyed everything that once was basically. Discovery doesn't know what it wants to be. It was a diaster, story wise, and completely once again undermines a lot of canon with what they did in it. And that really aggravates me to no end. If i had to number it all it'd be 1: TNG, 2: VOY, 3: DS9 4: ENT 5: TOS, 6: TAS, 7: LD, 8: ST 9: PIC 10: DIS
DS9 and TNG being 1 & 2 are a given. I agree with that order. I'm also a big fan of Generations despite acknowledging its a bit of a rough movie. Into darkness is the worst movie in my opinion and should be listed far far below everything else. I agree that the motion picture is a great Star Trek premise but unlike Generations it's just not fun enough to watch, I feel like I'm still watching the shuttle ride now. First contact and undiscovered country are very harshly ranked, insurrection a bit too, but not as much. Otherwise, great list.
I love Enterprise too. I put it right behind DS9 in my ranking. Enterprise had rough patches but like the characters and story arcs really make it some of my favorite scifi ive seen
DS9 had several years of top-notch TV science fiction. But it went beyond the science into some emotional, even gut wrenching moments. Also my favorite Star Trek series. The rest of the TV series rankings in the video are very close to mine.
although i prefer the unique essay format you usually do, it is good to have more frequent content from this channel inbetween the big ringers. if these quicker, youtube-y format helps achieve that i'm all for it.
This might sound crazy to you but Star Trek 5 the final frontier and Star Trek 9 insurrection are my favorite Star Trek movies then after that would have to be Star Trek 6 the undiscovered country Star Trek 8 first contact Star Trek 3 The search for Spock and finally Star Trek 7 generations my favorite Star Trek TV shows are deep Space nine and Voyager
Thank you for putting ST:TMP at the top of your list. It has it's flaws, but it is the only Star Trek movie that truly explores the unknown, and it has the scope and grandeur that is missing in the other films.
Patented TNG Episode Quality Guide: 1- Does Riker have a Beard? 2 - Is Troi in a uniform? 3 - Is it a Worf Episode? If Yes to any of these questions, the episode in question will, at *worst* be watchable. TV Series - I basically agree with your list, however I think Season 4 of ENT pushes it to the #4 place for me, above Voyager and below TOS. Movies - 1 - 6 - I love everything about this movie. Also the Tie in with Tuvok in Voyager was really cool. 2 - 2 - KKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! 3 - 8 - First Contact. I liked how they tied up the Picard/Borg Story with a bow. Also Borg Alice Krige makes me feel a kinda *way* 4 - 4 - Voyage Home - Time Travel, Scotty Talking into a mouse, and Nuclear Wessles. What's not to love. 5 - 3 - Search for Spock - Not...amazing...but it does what it needs to do I guess. 6 - 7 - Generations. Klingon Boob Window? Check. Duras Sisters? Check. A story that makes any kind of sense? Nupe. 7 - 9 - Insurrection. What the actual fuck. It's the middle of the goddamn Dominion war, the Enterprise is one of 12 of the most powerful ships in the fleet, and they make *this* ? At least it's not as bad as... 8 - 1 - The Slow Motion Picture. I know it's more "scifi" than the others, but it was paced really poorly. Also the amount of cock and balls you see through the jumpsuits is a bit absurd. 9 - 2009 Reboot. I just couldn't get into it. Chris Pine doesn't work as Kirk. Karl Urban and Zachary Quinto were solid choices though, I'll give them that. 10 - Beyond. Meh. I agree with you on this one. It's kinda...there. 11 - Into Darkness. Just...what? 12 - 5 - The Final Frontier. *What the fuck.* 13 - Nemesis - God I hate Nemesis, it's so dumb.
I've got thoughts on this list (the movies anyhow). First off, I was pleasantly surprised to see Star Trek: The Motion Picture get the number one spot on the film rankings. A person favorite of mine, but can easily understand why some hate it. The fact that you stated that, 'it's the most Star Trek movie' made me smile hardcore. Perhaps it's the ribbing from fellow Trekkies over the decades that it received over the decades (The Slow Motion picture, The No Motion Picture) that makes it even more satisfying. Second off, Generations over Wrath of Khan? Really? You literally gave Star Trek 2 way more praise than Generations then you give it the number 3 spot? Generations was half-baked in comparison to Khan. If it wasn't for you giving the top spot to the first Trek film, I'd have felt the film rankings was ridiculous in its entirety.
Ngl I'm happy people started to recognize how awesome DS9 is. [I just disagree with LD rank, but I get where you come from. And FC (the borg queen point is valid though)]
Movies: 1. Voyage Home 2. Wrath Of Khan 3. Undiscovered Country 4. First Contact 5. Motion Picture 6. Search For Spock 7. Beyond 8. Generations 9. Nemesis 10. Insurrection 11. 2009 12. Into Darkness 13. Final Frontier Series: 1. DS9 2. TNG 3. TOS 4. VOY 5. ENT 6. LOW 7. SHO 8. DIS 9. PIC 10. TAS Correlate reasonably well with yours, with a few drastic differences. No reasons given - after all, this is all so subjective
DS9 is pretty consistent in these rankings, and I agree. It is by far the most well-done series with characters you just love and hate, sometimes at the same time. I do think Enterprise is being revitalized, so I wonder when we redo these lists, will it rank higher.
Here are my rankings: Movies: 1. Wrath of Khan 2. First Contact 3. Undiscovered Country 4. The Voyage Home 5. The Search for Spock 6. The Motion Picture 7. Generations 8. Star Trek (2009) 9. Beyond 10. Insurrection 11. Nemesis 12. Final Frontier 13. Into Darkness TV Series 1. DS9 2. TNG 3. TOS 4. Voyager 5. Enterprise 6. Short Treks 7. Discovery 8. Picard 9. TAS 10. Lower Decks
Undiscovered country also I think is a prime example of great trek, definitely the best of Myers... A film about a problem of those times, a longing for a solution, the well deserved send off for the original crew, and one of the best villains in the franchise, RIP Christopher Plummer
Movie rankings: 1: First Contact (one of my favorite films period, and proof you can make great blockbuster cinema and great Trek) 2: Wrath of Khan 3: Search for Spock (A personal favorite, I love the melancholy and the evocative visual imagery) 4: Voyage Home 5: Generations 6: Undiscovered Country 7: The Motion Picture (I'm with you that it's underrated and I adore the soundtrack, may be willing to rewatch soon and reevaluate) 8: Insurrection (it's such an old hat dunk to call this an unmemorable TNG two-parter, but facts are facts) 9: Star Trek (2009) 10: Final Frontier (it's bad, but likable and fun enough to be endearing) 11: Nemesis (tbh I haven't seen this since walking out of the theater hating this movie almost twenty years ago) 12: Into Darkness (another one that left me walking out of the theater in a bad mood, so much so I haven't brought myself to see Beyond yet)
My list varies indeed as you stated in the beginning. you make a solid case, and make it very eloquently. I have some difficulty being objective to the quality in regards to my nostalgia. A lot of people regard the Orville as a better Star Trek than the current iterations of Star Trek. I’m wondering about your opinions about the Orville.
What I like about your lists is how well thought-out they are. You really work through your thought processes. Needless to say, some things about it surprised me. How much you LIKED Enterprise, for example. And I thought that it was universally agreed upon that V and Nemisis were the two worst films, though there is some wiggle-room in arguing which is slightly worse. Personally, I think Nemesis needs to take the bottom spot. I was also surprised by how much you disliked Picard. I watched your analysis of it a few months ago, and was very surprised by how much attention you paid to what the camera was doing as opposed to what the story was doing. The story was doing some truly amazing things. Since you ask, my lists will follow.
I'm sorry but I have to ask: when will we get new episodes of wikisurfer? It's by far my most favorite podcast and I don't know how many times I've listened to it in these two years without the show
100% agree on the series, but way different on the movies. "wrath of khan" is far and away the best trek movie. after that, i'd rank "undiscovered country" and "voyage home". probably TMP after that. and uh, "galaxy quest" to round out the top five.
80's baby here, back when movies had depth, substance, structure, musical score, innovation etc. Every age group's list is very different (pureist vs the low attention / intellectual), so here's mine. For me, the debate doesn't even start until #4. 13 Insurrection 12 The Final Frontier 11 The Motion Picture 10 Generations 9 Beyond 8 Nemesis 7 Into Darkness 6 The Search for Spock 5 2009 (Kelvin) 4 The Voyage Home 3 First Contact 2 The Undiscovered Country 1 Wrath of Khan
My Ranking: Shows: 10. The Animated Series 9. Short Treks 8. Picard 7. The Next Generation 6. The Original Series 5. Lower Decks 4. Enterprise 3. Voyager 2. Discovery 1. Deep Space Nine
I put Wrath of Khan at the top, followed by undiscovered country, first contact and the voyage home in fourth place. I think that these are the most character driven films with the strongest themes. Wrath of khan makes Kirk deal with aging, his own mortality, and the consequences of his past. Star Trek 6 makes Kirk deal with his past, and come to terms with his life and forgive those who wronged him. He grows past his own hatred of Klingons. First contact makes Picard deal with his trauma from the best of both worlds, and to rise above his trauma, and recognize his own desire for revenge. Star Trek 4 is just fun as hell to watch, and the save the whales/environmentally conscious theme is great too.
What do you mean by "marvel-ized"? It seems to encompass at lot of your objections to all of the streaming era treks, but the term never gets a strong definition. Otherwise, fun to listen to and very thoughtful ranking!
@@Trekspertise I agree with your critique of the style, but am curious why it's particularly connected with Marvel. The emphasis on weirdly quippy dialogue goes back a long ways in action movies, so far that mocking it is a significant part of a send up like Hot Fuzz. I'd wager (and you, as the more experienced film critic and film maker, are welcome to correct me) that the problematic style is less Marvel house style and more a specific "Wheedonesque" version of it where everyone is too clever for their own good and a zinger of a punch line is always to be pursued, even if the line itself is significantly out of character or out of the way of the larger mood.
Oddly enough, my favorite Trek films/series aren’t what I would recommend to newcomers who are interested in the fandom. I agree that DS9 is the best Trek series. I think Beyond is the best of the Kelvin films. I appreciate that your favorite film WASN’T Wrath of Khan, because most people list that as their favorite. I’m surprised that you listed Generations so high on your list. Most Trek fans I have talked to hate Generations. I personally love that film. I also like the Motion Picture, but it’s certainly isn’t my #1. 🖖🏻
I think it's interesting that the deleted scenes of Nemesis figured into your ranking of the movies. In my mind, the deleted scenes are what the movie could have been and not what it actually is, so they would never figure into my own rankings. If anything, it makes me dislike Nemesis even more than I previously did, because the deleted scenes tell me that we could have got a better movie but instead we got what we got.
Re: TV series lineup you pretty much nailed it, and to my utter delight you were able to be frank about new trek in a completely rational, unassailable manner. (for what it's worth I actually enjoyed Lower Decks but I agree completely that its tone was confusing and ultimately it wasn't really star trek in mood...)
Pale Moonlight is my favorite DS9 episode. Shows how far you are willing to go to survive. Your beliefs and honor go out the window when faced with survival.
I really hope DS9 is remembered just as well as TNG. I grew up on TNG but I prefer DS9 now.
DS9 is the best Trek series but it also couldn’t exist or be that good without the infrastructure and build-up provided by TNG.
I also agree DS9 is the best Trek ever. When it was on the air it was easily the best writing on television.
It truly needs a remaster/restoration for its legacy. It's criminal that DS9 and Voyager remain the unloved siblings of the franchise in this regard. I've already purchased both series on DVD twice.
Not holding my breath for BluRay editions, but still hoping. I would be there for both projects.
i grew up in the space between TOS and TNG and its hard for me to decide between TOS, TNG, and DS9 of which I like best.
It's just so exciting to watch the slow transformation of the characters; Kira, Odo, the Siskos, the Ferengi, Garak and of course Dukat, as their world unfolds.
@@simonfrederiksen104 They really got to develop the characters since the show wasn't as episodic as the others. It also helps that the actors were fantastic, many already veterans of stage and tv. Rene being able to portray so much emotion despite the mask is so much fun to watch.
I thought Star Trek Beyond was the most Trek of the Kelvin films. Certainly much better than Into Darkness.
yes
@@thevirtualjim the worst in my opinion
Into Darkness is the absolute worst!! Definitely last on my list near Star Trek 5
into darkness was painful to watch.
wrath of khan is a perfect movie. leave it alone.
I prefer the first one in the Kelvin universe.
go, team voyager!
Putting the motion picture at #1 is the reason I watch this channel.
GROK!
So glad someone else agrees with me on DS9!! No. 1.
The top 3 is my top 3, but I am torn on the top 2, either could be #1.
I do really like Enterprise, and would put it far higher, I enjoyed being tied up in canon.
Glad to see the newer ones near the bottom, maybe or maybe not for the same reason the presenter gave.
I think the majority of people sees DS9 on #1.
Everybody now seems to agree with you!
Ha - it’s not the mid 90’s anymore...
I totally remember having huge arguments with Trek friends at that time who were adamant that DS9 wasn’t really Roddenberry’s utopian Trek - too dark and brooding - too militaristic - too funny!!
20 years later and it’s now fully appreciated by most
Hmmm 🤔 - funny how that works
I have similar arguments today with those same Trek friends about New Trek
@@trekkiedave7910 yeah, im so surprised, but you are right.
The only truly controversial ranking is "Into Darkness" being higher than "Beyond".
Yeah that’s bizarre. The first hour of Into Darkness is pretty good, but the latter half is so ruinous I could never put it above Beyond.
Yeah, Beyond was amazing!
The more I see you, the more I love you Kyle.
My list would be not entirely different than yours but definitely different nonetheless. Enterprise and Beyond would be higher. The Search for Spock and Star Trek the motion picture would be lower, but I hear you on your justifications.
...And if I could be so crude... I would love to ride your Horga'hn and give you the best Oo-Mox of your life then hold you while you read to me (Even the phonebook.) my Trekspert crush! Joking/not joking. 😜
IDN I hated Beyond more ...
Beyond basically gave up on the character arcs that the first two reboot movies had. It was just a side-show to some larger plotline that is probably never going to be made.
Enterprise was ranked too low.
As soon as you made it to your number one show of the entire series.....slow clap.....DS9 is perfection!
Undiscovered Country is one of my favourites, I'd put it much higher up. Dito for First Contact. The Enterprise Theme is spectacular!! Wrath of Khan would probably be my #1. Star Trek The Movie is indeed probably the most scientific and has spectacular scenes inspired by 2001, but it just draaaags on too much.
The thing I most dislike about UC is Kirk being subdued by the plot.
He's silenced (like in the dinner scene) or given unbelievable dialogue like, "I never forgave the Klingons for the death of my son." --- as if anyone had ever asked him for forgiveness. This theme really foreshadows thhe modern destructive hyper-self-awareness of Westerners; the applying unreachable standards to oneself while tolerating so much worse in others in the name of one's supposed virtue.
Best score of all the Trek movies, but possibly the worst thematically.
Yeah
You cant have wrath of khan below generations.
Its illogical
Illogical
Illogical
Illogical.
I do love generations though
Shows:
9. Discovery
8. Picard
7. TAS
6. Lower Decks
5. Enterprise
4. Voyager
3. TOS
2. TNG
1. DS9
Movies:
13. Final Frontier
12. Voyage Home
11. Insurrection
10. Nemesis
9. Into Darkness
8. Undiscovered Country
7. Beyond
6. 2009
5. Generations
4. The Motion Picture
3. First Contact
2. Search for Spock
1. Wrath of Khan
I found lower decks not to be insulting to Star Trek I found it to be a tribute to all of Star treks flaws and good thing about it
Minority opinion, but I think Into Darkness is an underrated movie. At its core, it has an interesting and very timely Star Trek message about the morality of drone strikes and how Western societies respond to acts of terrorism and, in some ways, create our own enemies. On top of which, it's a lot of fun. I feel like people can't see past the whole Cumberbatch-as-Khan thing to appreciate it for what it is.
I love ranking videos like this. The one thing I always have to say is that Nemesis should always be low for it's treatment of Troi. She deserved better.
I also LOVE that you put Generations so high. It's up there for me too and I feel like it doesn't get enough love. Then again, it was my first one in theaters. I was 5 or 6?
The film ranking I strongly disagree with, but the TV one is pretty solid.
Ds9 is the best for character development, story lines, worf, the dominion wow it had it all.
The motion picture was awful when I first saw it, but now it is the best, it’s a star trek that I had to revisit many times before I saw the story, and that is science fiction where the motive of story has to be fleshed out over time for the viewer to see what the true meaning of the story is.
Great choices thanks for the hard work.
I think Enterprise got a bit snubbed here, I think the average episode is better than Voyager. Completely agree with DS9 being #1
No BS, but with the TV shows I agree with your ENTIRE list in order...except I have #1 and 2 reversed.
Star Trek Bottom Episodes.
5)The Nagus(DS9)
4)Code of Honor(Next Generation)
3)Turnabout Intruder(TOS)
2)Once Upon a Time(Voyager)
1)Cogenitor(Enterprise)
Star Trek Top Episodes.
5)In a Mirror, Darkly(Enterprise)
4)The Drumhead(Next Generation)
3)All Our Yesterdays(TOS)
2)Duet(DS9)
1)Living Witness(Voyager)
Star Trek Bottom Seasons.
5)DS9 S1
4)Voyager S1
3)TOS S3
2)Enterprise S1
1)Next Generation S1
Star Trek Top Seasons.
5)TOS S2
4)Enterprise S4
3)Next Generation S5
2)DS9 S6
1)Voyager S4
Star Trek:Ranked
5)Voyager
4)TOS
3)Enterprise
2)Next Generation
1)DS9
13 Star Trek 5 the final frontier
12 Star Trek nemesis
11 Star Trek insurrection
10 Star Trek the motion picture
9 Star Trek generations
8 Star Trek into darkness
7 Star Trek 3 the search for Spock
6 Star Trek 2009
5 Star Trek beyond
4 Star Trek 4 the voyage home
3 Star Trek 6 the undiscovered country
2 Star Trek first contact
1 Star Trek 2 the wrath of Khan
I love Lower Decks!!! It's funny as heck
I think the reboot movies get a bad rap. Having characters grow over the course of the movie (except for Beyond, which was kind of a letdown) is something that only a few Star Trek movies have. And all of the stupidity of starships crashing into cities and Kirk being revived with superblood pales in comparison to the stupid stuff that happens in, say, TNG, which is played just as straight and dramatically. All of the TNG movies totally unravel (not just with plot holes, but thematically) when inspected as closely as they seem to want you to.
Generations is set too high on the list.
Agreed.
He said first contact was the best of the TNG movies but ranked Generations much higher??
Agreed. It's dead last on mine. It's a pretty bland and plothole-filled mess imo. I agree with him that it does have some decent character moments, but overall it just doesn't work for me. Plus the lame way they killed Kirk never sat right with me, especially when the TOS cast was already given a perfect send-off at the end of Star Trek VI.
I even like it better than Star Trek V. While I realize that V is probably a worse movie if you look at it objectively, it's still more fun to watch imo and the scene where McCoy is confronting the pain he felt when he lost his father is genuinely well done and is perhaps the best performance DeForest Kelly ever delivered in Star Trek
No kidding. Kirk and Picard together on screen. What do they do with this much anticipated opportunity? Kirk chops wood, cooks breakfast, rides horses with Picard and then gets killed. Still better than anything from Bad Reboot.
I disagree with Lower Decks I'd say it's the best new trek series... But the rest whilst I don't have the same order as you I agree with your analysis of them.
Film wise tho our opinions couldnt be more different...
I’m please to see DS9 placed appropriately!
I was surprised to find I agreed 100% with your ranking.
I was under the impression we disagreed on modern Trek for some reason but your placement is fair, and dare I say, ‘correct!’
I DISAGREE WITH YOU STAR TREK RANKING OPINIONS!! :)
Great list. In regard to the series ranking, I have Enterprise at #3 (yes, I know that is way too high for some people). The third and fourth seasons in ENT were the very best of Star Trek, I loved the season story arc and the time travel didn't bother me. Here is my list: 1. DS9 2. TNG 3.ENT 4. VOY 5. OS 6. Disc 7. Picard 8. Lower Decks 9. Animated Series.... I'm curious if anyone else enjoyed ENT as much as I did.
Yeah, my dad (who watched TOS original run and every series since) favorite is Enterprise. I enjoyed enterprise quite a bit ---- they had the trinity of Archer/Tpol/Trip who worked well together and I enjoyed the season arcs... A shame they didn't get that S5.... It's high on my list but below DS9/TNG/VOY...
I really like your content... With the vlog shots, I'd like to suggest zooming out a bit. The framing you're using is a bit too intense and I find it extremely distracting compared to the soothing tone of your content.
Keep up the good work :)
Love this ranking. Lot I agree with, and just a few disagreements.
My ranking:
1. DS9
2. Next Generation
3. Voyager
4. Enterprise
5. Original
6. Picard
7. Discovery
Films:
1. First Contact
2. Wrath of Khan
3. Undiscovered Country
4. Motion Picture
5. Voyage Home
6. Beyond
7. Insurrection
8. Star Trek (2009)
9. Into Darkness
10. Generations
11. Search for Spock
12. Nemesis
13. The Final Frontier
Movies:
1. The Undiscovered Country - I love this movie and feel it has always been underrated by the Trek community. I really enjoyed the political intrigue which sets the tone of the Federation - Klingon relationship for TNG and DS9. Christopher Plummer is a brilliant villain as Chang. Kim Cattrall and David Warner are fantastic in their appearances as well.
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. The Voyage Home
4. First Contact
5. The Motion Picture - Also very underrated. Happy to see it so high on your list.
6. Insurrection - Actually, the fact that it's basically a ho-hum 2 part episode of TNG with better special effects is what I like about it.
7. Generations - Honestly I was surprised by how high you ranked it. I may need to rewatch.
8. The Search for Spock
9. Nemesis - I'll have to check out those deleted scenes you mentioned!
10. The Final Frontier - At least its not all action shlock, unlike the films below.
11. Trek 2009
12. Into Darkness
13. Beyond
TV Shows:
1. TNG
2. DS9
3. TOS
4. Enterprise - The last 2 seasons were much stronger than the first 2.
5. Voyager - Much of the cast is pretty vanilla. The only characters I really liked were Janeway and Tuvok.
6. TAS
7. Short Treks
8. Lower Decks
9. Discovery
10. Picard - a true disappointment.
Your Channel is great. Keep it up!!!
For my love of 24th century I've switched 4 & 5. I relate to your lists.
Question for you: would it alter your series rankings at all if you were allowed to erase 5 bad episodes from each?
Melora. *shudder*
@@KristenK78 Profit and Lace...
I very nearly agree completely with your series ranking. I'd personally bring Lower Decks up to #7 - between Short Treks and Enterprise. But ya damn near nailed it.
I like when people's lists are super different from mine. Makes for more interesting conversation.
This is one of the best lists I've seen posted, and all of your supporting arguments are really solid and earnest.
Very similar in terms of series. I liked Lower Decks more than Discovery or Picard because I had lower expectations. As for TNG or DS9 for #1 I keep going back and forth. DS9 was the better show by any conventional measure, but TNG meant more to me than any other media ever has. It's more than just nostalgia; it was formative.
Another knock against DS9 is that it was the show that started picking holes in the Trek philosophy. Granted it did it far more thoughtfully than later shows would, but it was still the show that put the focus increasingly on war stories and gave us Section 31. To me the unique aspect of TOS and TNG was the idea of "What if humanity were better? What then?" Ever since DS9 it has been "Yes that's nice, but it's not very likely is it? What if it all kept falling apart?"
I didn't expect to agree with so much of this.TMP and Generations are my favorites, hardly anyone puts those at the top of their list
It seems to me that DS9 has gradually risen to be a fan favorite. At the time when it originally aired, it was usually overshadowed by TNG and Voyager. Lots of Trek fans complained that it was too dark, too serialized, and contradicted Roddenberry’s vision. I’m glad to see it more widely appreciated. Though I must confess, I love Babylon 5 most of all ;)
Third and fourth seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise are some of the BEST Trek ever made; hands down.
I am currently re-watching the S3 and, among many other positives, I must point out Degra and his character arc which are absolutely epic.
Over the years, ENT gradually became my second most favourite ST show, only bettered by the astonishing DS9.
Among others, Archer and Sisko are the only captains who undergo any character development over the course of their respective shows and certain events they happened to experience had lasting impacts on them, which unfortunately cannot be said about the other TV outings.
By the finales of the remaining shows, Kirk on TOS, Picard on TNG and Janeway on VOY are essentially exactly the same people they were on the individual pilots and the creators thereof came across to seemingly "relish" in staunchly keeping the given shows' Status Quo intact, no matter what.
As such, Voyager, for example, entirely failed its amazing original premise and concept à la Lost in Space and ENT's whole third season, in retrospect, is what VOY should have been like as a show.
Every time I watch ENT, I simply cannot overcome the feelings of disappointment, caused by the show's being prematurely cancelled after just 4 seasons. Such sadness!! :-(
The Motion Picture suffered the same overly cerebrallity that The Cage did. Great Sci-fi, but not enough wagon train to the stars.
Non-trekkie here, just doing some needed research. But I'll leave a LIKE because of this 9:20 very *_introverted_* eyebrow gesture which I appreciate & makes me want to be friends with the narrator-guy.
17:12 ~ that subspace below
19:56 ~ the sigh of relief 🥲
I agree with pretty much all the rankings, except I'd move Lower Decks top of the latter-day Trek stuff (although I haven't seen the Short Treks, due to Discovery boring me into a stupor - I might check them out now), and ST: Beyond top of the Kelvin films.
But DS9 top of the series is incontrovertible fact, even on a highly subjective list.
I think the Kelvin movies are better than most people remember definitely better than Nemesis, Star Trek Tom, and generations
What most fans think of the kelvin movies is just that they're bland action and no story.
I could not agree more with your comment. The character arc between kirk and spock was written very well and they have very good character development (in into darkness (the warp core scene)). Even the background characters feel like real people (especially checkov and mccoy). The films have themes and lessons, the constant pew pew kind of hides this
Star trek 2009: logic vs emotion with nero and spock
Star trek into darkness: human rights (in context of who lives and who doesn't)
Star trek beyond: philosophical question: are we more vulnerable because we have more friends?/ do we rely on those who might let us down? Explored in Kralls philosophy.
The kelvin movies have much more that you can learn from. Most fans just don't put their attention in those films because stupid reasons..... some people say that those films are not star trek or something. As a excuse for the older films they just say that they at least tried to explore something trekkish. Fans have forgotten what TRUE star trek is (not voy, tng, ent ,tmp, ds9....) TOS is true star trek. The kelvin movies got a lot of references to old star trek (especially tos). They simply think something new, fresh and exciting will never be as good as the original.
Tng and other shows back in the day started to grow on the fans. But today, the fans are soo closed that any new iteration of star trek becomes unacceptable.
DS9 deserves the top spot. The characters and relationships and the way everything builds onto each other while focusing on questioning the very foundation of Star Trek makes it the quintessential show of the franchise.
Shows
1. Voyager
This is my favorite because I think it has some of the most thought-provoking episodes. It also has some of the best characters. There were some bland ones, but Janeway, The Doctor, and Seven all make it worthwhile!
2. The Next Generation
This show is so fun. I have a lot of good memories of watching it with my mom when I was younger so it is kinda like comfort food for me. It also has so many deep and emotional scenes in addition to thought-provoking episodes
3. Enterprise
I love the characters in the show! I think there are some elements I don't like as much like the time travel stuff but I think there are a lot of interesting ideas here.
4. Lower Decks
I love the humor of this show! It is pretty funny and a lot cleaner than The Orville. I think the show is also deep enough at times that it is more than just reference humor.
5. Picard
I loved the nostalgia of seeing Picard again and I was glad that he finally got to say goodbye to Data. There were a lot of moving moments in the show and the mystery was interesting, but I was bothered by the language and the serialized storytelling. I also thought the show was a bit aggressive in demonizing Starfleet and making things seem so dour all the time.
6. Deep Space Nine
This was another one that I only saw a little bit. The characters are fun but the storylines are also a bit more serialized. I also love the discovery of finding new planets and its harder to do that with a space station. I am planning to give it another watch soon
7. The Original Series
I admittedly haven't watched this one as much, but I think that some of the episodes can be pretty dated and slow. I want to rewatch it and give it another chance soon though.
8. Discovery
Placing this show here was a tough choice because I thought season 2 was amazing, but the first season was terrible and the last season was interesting, but not quite as good as season 2. While the serialized storytelling can work when there is an interesting mystery like seasons 2 and 3, I just don't like serialization as much as the episodic structure of other series.
9. The Animated Series
I never really got into this one because the episodes and creatures in it were a bit weird. Also, I love Chekov, so it was weird that he wasn't in this show.
Movies
1. Star Trek: First Contact
This movie is wonderful! It explores Picard's trauma after the Borg and it shows a critical scene in the history of the federation. It also weaves this expertly into a Moby-Dick adaptation and the scene where Picard quotes Melville is so powerful. Also, the soundtrack is beautiful.
2. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
This film is so great! Khan is an intimidating presence who poses a real presence and his desire for revenge makes sense. Spock's sacrifice is so sad and it has a real weight even when you know what will happen in the next movie.
3. Star Trek Into Darkness
I enjoyed this film's look at taking familiar events from a different perspective and I think the larger message about fear and how we should remember who we are was a great message for the time and still a great message now
4. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
I think this film has an interesting mystery and s great at capturing the divisions that can tear people apart.
5. Star Trek (2009)
I have some wonderful memories of watching this film in the theaters. The soundtrack and casting are amazing and I think the plot is pretty fun. It isn't the deepest movie, but it is fun to watch.
6. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
This is just a fun time-travel adventure. I think the jokes are more interesting than the story, but there are too many amusing moments not to have this film rank pretty high up there!
7. Star Trek Beyond
I think this was a fun adventure and I liked the concept of people who were unable to adjust to the changes brought on by Star Trek. I found it a little hard to believe that Kirk would already be board with exploration and want a desk job though
8. Star Trek: Nemesis
I think this movie has some interesting ideas about Nature vs Nurture and I cry whenever I see Data's death or hear "Blue Skies." It had some good nostalgia and it was nice to see a snippet of where the crew was going to head next. It is so tragic that Data didn't get a chance to be a first officer.
9. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
It is funny to see Christopher Llyod as a Klingon and fascinating to see McCoy acting like Spock. I don't think this film is amazing, but it's fun to watch.
10. Star Trek Generations
Data is funny and some of the stuff with the Nexus is pretty good. This film is better at exploring Picard's desire for children and his regrets than "The Inner Light" is. At the same time, It isn't as impactful or interesting as it could be
11. Star Trek: Insurrection
This one has a fun scene with Data freaking out, but the larger plot is the same as a season 7 episode and they do a better job with it there. The people on the planet are condescending and while I don't support forced relocation, there isn't enough justification for why they can't just move somewhere else.
12. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
This film is just awful! The weird dance Uhura does, finding God, Spock's brother he never talks about. It was just too bizarre, and not in an entertaining way either. The only part I like was the part with Kirk rockclimbing and hanging out with Spock and McCoy. I like these characters enough that it is fun to see them hang out together.
13. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
I think this film is just really slow and boring. V-Ger's weirdness in human form is mildly interesting, but there are too many slow scenes or panning shots of the ship. I always skip this film.
When Voyager Hits the target, it's usually bullseye. I love equinox, Tuvix, year of hell, counterpoint.
But when it misses, it can be really a horrible show.
The Voyager theme is brilliant, too.
I re-edited STTMP cutting out almost 30 minutes. I showed it to someone who never seen it because everyone said it was too long and boring. Still didn't like it because he thought it was a rethread of "The Changeling" and lacked any excitement that would elevate the movie from the TV series. But I enjoy my edit of it and would never watch the longer version, director's cut or otherwise. Unless the director's cut was shorter than mine. Doubt.
Props for not having a list even relatively similar to every other one I’ve seen. Thanks for sharing!
How the hell did you rank Beyond below Into Dankness, Generations, and Nemesis? I'd argue it's above the reboot. Beyond at least had aspersions to be better movie than those.
I disagreed with a lot of your rankings, particularly when it came to the movies, but man, I did appreciate the love you showed Generations and The Motion Picture! I have a big soft spot for Generations myself. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
Series: 1 TNG (seasons 4-6 are perfection), 2 DS9 (amazing story and characters), 3 ENT (season 3 excellent), 4 DIS (season 2 brought Star Trek back), then VOY, PIC. Short Treks; Movies: 1 First Contact (great story), 2 Undiscovered Country (excellent) 3-6Khan - Voyage Home (great story, mega Kirk Spock McCoy), 7 ST Beyond (great update/ tie in to ENT, the rest whatever...
My film list is
1. Star Trek 2009
2. Star Trek 3: the search for Spock
3. Star Trek 2: the wrath of khan
4. Star Trek: first contact
5. Star Trek 4: the voyage home
6. Star Trek beyond
7. Star Trek 6: The undiscovered country
8. Star Trek: insurrection
9. Star Trek into Darkness
10. Star Trek generations
11. Star Trek: nemesis
12. Star Trek: the motion picture
13. Star Trek 5: The final frontier
If that was a hint at a Vulcans vid, be prepared to be pinned to my channel. Also, i am a gorilla.
Here's my ranking of the films:
The Voyage Home: the one that most captures the spirit of Trek on TV. It's got something for all the characters to do, it's got social commentary, no villain, no on-screen deaths, tackles some of the same themes as TMP (probe sent to Earth looking for a response, logic vs emotion), but it's fun. It, rather than TWOK, should have served as the model for future Trek films. That said, when other films tried to learn from it (The Final Frontier, Insurrection), they only took from it that it was a comedy, and their sense of humor was a tad meaner than this film.
The Undiscovered Country: the most cinematic of the TOS films, it was a genuine genre-busting thriller, mashing up courtroom dramas, with prison escapes, comedies of manners, submarine films, etc.
First Contact: as with TWOK, it mined its parent series for a villain and created a similarly claustrophobic thrill ride.
The Wrath of Khan: we have it to thank for the rest of the franchise. It brought humanity back to Trek, which was sorely missing from the extremely sterile TMP. That's the lesson the other films should have taken from it, not that all Trek films should have a vengeance-fueled villain.
The Search for Spock: Yes, this film was a bridge between TWOK and TVH, but was also an important world-building film, giving us spacedock, the Oberth and Excelsior class ships, the Klingon Bird of Prey, and shaped a lot of what Klingons and Vulcans would be like from here on out.
Generations: most people say that Insurrection is the film that most resembles a TNG episode, but I think it's this film. It's not so much the plot or the stakes, but the format of the story. There's a high-stakes A plot with an observatory and star-killing device, with civilians we've never met at stake, and a more character-based B-plot with Data and his emotion chip. Study the stellar cartography scene for dialogue that exactly fits the format of the Berman era on television (characters alternate the technobabble of the A-plot with the emotions of the B-plot, in a very specific style that was always a bit unusual, and specific to Trek. Into Darkness had something similar with the Uhura/Spock dialogue in the shuttlecraft). That said, the movie in quite cinematic and big. It was ambitious for trying to tackle the idea that icons don't necessarily die in an epic fashion. I really appreciate when films try to do this, but a lot of fans just want their heroes to satiate their fantasies, which is why they tend to react so strongly against final arcs for characters as seen in The Last Jedi or Picard. Generations kind of laid the groundwork for stories like that and Logan, all of which I liked.
Beyond: its placement here is deceptive. It's a really solid film and clearly the best of the Kelvin films. It's no accident that the Kelvin films had lower death counts as they progressed. Like TVH, it made sure to give the ensemble something to do. And yes, like that film, it had unusual pairings. The villain was also slightly more benign than the previous ones. When he looked at the shard of glass, I hoped that maybe this would be the rare film where he actually sought some redemption, but alas. The only other problem I had with it was the destruction of the Enterprise and the receipt of any 1701-A. In TVH, the A designation was really special. It was a reward for saving the entire planet from its own shortsightedness, as well as the crews status as legends in their own time for their two five-year missions. Into Darkness kind of set this up, since they said no one ever completed a five-year deep space mission before. So, the 1701-A here felt kind of unearned. It would have probably been better if the ship had somehow been repaired, rather than scuttled and replaced.
2009: this one was a good, decent thrill ride that had a really inventive way of setting a new path forward in Trek films. It also kind of eased the transition to the new crop of TV shows. The new shows are closer in design to the Trek universe as established pre-2009 than the Kelvin films were. The cast was a dynamic roster of performers and the movie was fast and fun. It just had the same problem even the best JJ Abrams films tend to have, they are fun in the moment, but dissolve in retrospect (it's kind of the opposite of Rian Johnson movies, where plot twists seem shocking in the moment but absolutely inevitable and organically derived from the characters in retrospect).
Insurrection: it's an okay film, and generally inoffensive, except the planet being saved is a tad too Aryan. It did finally push the Riker/Troi relationship into something a bit more serious than the deeply close friends who sometimes make out in TNG. It's a film that was notorious for having a really troubled writing phase, documented in Piller's book "Fade In."
The Final Frontier: the film immediately following TVH (though it took three years, rather than the then typical two), it tried two things the previous film did: use a Trek regular star as the director and inject the film with humor. But because it was Shatner, the humor was often at the expense of the rest of the crew. And the film definitely had a cheaper look to it. That said, the Kirk/Spock/McCoy stuff was pretty good, and it did feature some classic TOS battles with godlike beings. You're right that it has kind of a camp quality to it.
The Motion Picture: I rank this below The Final Frontier because, as ambitious as it was, and as much as it wanted to tackle some big ideas, it's painfully dull. That's one of the biggest sins a movie could make. I've even considered seeing if I could tackle a re-edit of the film, as many have done with The Phantom Menace, or similar. And yes, it does feature the classic Roddenberry blind spot of some pretty sexist ideas.
Nemesis: this is another ambitious failure that I'd be interested in taking on as an editing project. It could have been good, but Berman's another one with an even more notorious misogyny streak. It's not just the rape scenes, but stuff like the casual sexism of the Mr. Troi joke. We could have cut a bunch of the Kolarus III stuff in favor of the character-based deleted scenes, particularly the one between Picard and Crusher. She never got much to do, so it would have been nice to give her a send-off, at the very least. And the Geordi/Worf scene would have at least provided Geordi some closure that he still didn't get in Star Trek: Picard. That said, the show did kind of redeem the film somewhat.
Into Darkness: this film also suffers from JJ syndrome. It fell apart upon further scrutiny in the time since I left the theatre. But it's biggest crime of all was whitewashing Khan. Orci's explanation was that he didn't want the terrorist to look like the opponent's in Bush's "War on Terror," he wanted Khan to "look like us." But what does "us" mean in the context of a global Star Trek audience? It's damning that often casting will allow diversity when it comes to characters that have no development or even lines, but when it comes to characters as complex and charismatic as Khan, they get scared to look outside of white actors. Cumberbatch wasn't even that big a star compared to lateral move Benicio Del Toro. And Cumberbatch has made a habit of playing underrepresented people in other films. The very least they could have done was go to Bollywood and look for a charismatic, athletic actor hungry to crossover to Hollywood who could speak English, and even already had a following. They could have even gone with the actor who played Robau. It was laziness in the extreme, especially considering Khan was originally a character called Harold Erickson, a Scandinavian, but Roddenberry changed it to Khan because not all genetic supermen need be Aryan fantasies. Aside from that, the film continues JJ's male gaze from 2009 with the Caitians and with the underwear scene. And Lindelof gave an interview where he said he had the Vengeance level San Francisco because the budget demanded a spectacle at that point in the film. It's a crass reason for such destruction. That said, I'm not too offended by the cribbing of TWOK dialogue. It had the function of making the fans that recognized it believe Kirk was going to die. It wasn't there because the writers were lazy. If I should be offended by it, it would be because it's manipulative, but then movies always are.
It’s funny how my own order and reasoning for the shows almost exactly matches this list, but my criteria/order for the movies is waaaaaay different.
A very good list. 👍🙌
I agreed completely with your ranking of the series, but I have some differences with your rankings of the movies.
Thank you for showing TAS some love. I grew up with TAS as the newest Trek and understood it as the 3rd season of TOS so for me TOS and TAS were the only trek available to watch. You have to start a Star Trek obsession somewhere!
Great ranking, cheers!
DS9 Gang
1. DS9
Pretty self explanatory. The best of Trek. Similar reasons to you.
2. TNG
Again, great Trek. Defines what Trek would be from the 1980s onwards. Of course some very problematic episodes, but the character build ups are absolutely perfect. The whole Sela storyline, Worf’s family, and the history of Riker and Troi are fun and entertaining. Data’s life and Geordi’s relationship to the ship are great. Crusher unfortunately got placed to the wayside of a lot of it, and even Picard to a certain degree.
3. DIS
Here’s where we disagree. I like it because it is a fun story, it allows itself to be imperfect and not rigid to the code of perfect canon (since when is perspective of history always 100% true). We get an excellent exploration of the Mirror Universe in a way which has never occurred before. We see Klingons beyond the warrior stereotype. We see representation dealt with and used in ways which aren’t in the other series. We are introduced to some interesting scifi, like the tardigrade, spore drive, and the red explosions. It did focus on Burnham a bit too much in the beginning, but it seems to be making a course correction here.
4. TOS
It’s here because it started it all. Same reasons to you. For me, some of the worse episodes are not redeemable to watch today. While others are entirely rewatchable again and again. The character development of Spock, Kirk, and Bones is absolutely iconic.
5. VOY
It’s just meh. I feel like if Ron D Moore were given the reigns like he was in DS9, we would have gotten a better show (but instead we got Battlestar Galactica, so I’m not mad). A few great episodes, but Chakotay is basically a racist stereotype of indigenous people. Kim is kind of a creeper. Characters are not one note, but many of them aren’t dynamic. The Doctor has some of the best episodes. Seven of Nine has some interesting episodes. But knowing that Mulgrew did not get along with Ryan helps mar this one for me.
6. ENT
Vanilla toast. Accurate.
7. PIC
I just think we haven’t seen enough Picard. If we got to 5-6 seasons, maybe this will be higher. But right now we know next to nothing, and like almost every Trek series, S1 isn’t that great.
8. Short Treks
They are great, but they don’t standalone really. They require some context from the others series. So not really a show to me as much.
9. TAS
I can’t believe you put this higher. This is what Star Trek looks like on drugs.
10. Lower Decks
I liked LD, but my partner did not. I am willing to put it lower (heh) because of the same reason for PIC: it’s S1.
1. Wrath of Kahn
Great film. Not sure why it isn’t your number 1. This is where the scifi is at.
2. First Contact
The Borg Queen. Picard FINALLY having to confront the death of his family AND his time with the Borg. All while seeing the first contact between the Vulcans and the Romulans. Great movie. Also, I’ll never forget “PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED”. Worf was about to bash the Defiant right into the Borg cube. I kind of wanted to see it.
3. The Undiscovered Country
Finally, Klingons with some academic critique. Klingons who want peace and are still warriors. And done through the lens of Shakespeare. The only crime? The laughably pink blood.
4. Beyond
The critique of the Federation, the step away from conspiracy and the Death Star-like Romulan “mining ship”. It’s a fun film. Cinematic, but not overdone.
5. Generations
Picard forces Kirk to confront a different life and come back to his own life. We also see Picard with a family. A but less absurd, and pretty nice to see.
6. Insurrection
Like you said, this film is like a 2-parter TNG episode. I just don’t see that as a bad thing.
7. The Voyage Home
These films are absurd. We must travel back in time to capture a blue whale so it can communicate with the modern world. I mean…what??
8. The Motion Picture
Oof. I just don’t like this one. It’s mediocre. Yes, it is scifi. Yes, it is Trek. It’s the ENT of the film era. Vanilla Toast.
9. The Search for Spock
How is this higher for you? “Spock’s soul is trapped inside Bones, and they must deliver it to a long lost corpse somewhere and teach that version of Spock how to eat, speak, and talk.” This film is absurd. It’s still a decent Trek film, but is so unbelievable.
10. Nemesis
Clone Picard that looks absolutely nothing like Picard other than being bald. Seeing some Romulan stuff was cool, especially the Senate. But we never hear about Remans again. Data dies. We get that weird Picard hot-rod dune buggy scene. B4 (I mean, come on, you expect me to believe there is ANOTHER data out there somewhere?). Great story sprinkled with very awkward and weirds scenes.
11. Star Trek: 2009
Time traveling inconsistencies aside, this Trek is decent, but not good. It starts the whole updated graphics for Trek, which is great. But otherwise could go to the bargain bin at Walmart.
12. Into Darkness
This whole film is nostalgia bait. Nothing original. Nothing good. We get these scenes that are clearly speaking to the audience rather than the characters (“I….AM…Kaaaaahhhhnnnnnn!” Kahn says to Spock and Kirk from behind his prison cell door). This is typical of JJ Abrams as well. His films are shit. He can’t write. His direction is lacking. He doesn’t have an original bone in his body.
13. The Final Frontier
God. Row row row your boat. Hover boots. Sybok.
I posted my list on here. I didn't go into much detail on mine but I wanted to talk about a couple of yours briefly.
DS9: Yeah, I completely agree. Even though we are saying it's the best I think it's underrated by nonTrek folk.
TNG: I agree that Picard didn't get much but I talked about in my original comment that I wonder if it was for the best? Does it leave us with an artificially good impression of him the way he was portrayed in TNG?
DIS: I never really thought about it that way. To me, it felt like these changes were forced. I don't care for pretty graphics but I was excited to see DIS and Star Trek 2009 reimagine Star Trek when they first came out.
VOY: I couldn't agree with you more. It's just meh.
Nemesis: I like the premise. I just wish I could go back in time and fix the movie.
@@KnightMustard Thanks! What are your thoughts on The Voyage Home? Most people rank it high. I'm honestly not sure why.
1. The Next Generation
2. Deep Space 9
3. Enterprise
4. The Original Series
5. Voyager
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was my introduction to Star Trek as a very young kid (age 3-4). Despite having no prior connection to the series whatsoever, I watched it alongside the original Star Wars as entertaining sci-fi. As I explored and appreciated all the series and films, Wrath of Khan is always the one I keep at the top not just for what it means to me but also for what it means to the franchise and how it can be considered one of the key moments of the franchise that saved/defined it.
I may be the only one, but I have lower decks way up in my top 3, above ds9.
Partly because it fits my niche, partly because I thought it was going to be awful.
But also... partly because of the reasons you have ds9 at number 1, there seems to be a growing deconstruction of starfleet ethics and questioning of the exisistence of the federation and its hierarchy. Cant wait for season 2
I miss the moody atmospheric videos in darkness xD
I would put Into Darkness at the bottom, as the most cynically made of the Trek movies. NGL I like the Motion Picture love. Slow burning sci fi is what Star Trek was in the Original Series, and this movie reflects that without getting boring at any point. All the moments people complain about from that movie are full of creativity and soul that gets ignored.
The only good thing about Lower Decks was Badgey. Other than that it was pretty bad. Picard...really destroyed everything the end of the other series tried setting up. Instead they destroyed everything that once was basically. Discovery doesn't know what it wants to be. It was a diaster, story wise, and completely once again undermines a lot of canon with what they did in it. And that really aggravates me to no end.
If i had to number it all it'd be 1: TNG, 2: VOY, 3: DS9 4: ENT 5: TOS, 6: TAS, 7: LD, 8: ST 9: PIC 10: DIS
DS9 and TNG being 1 & 2 are a given. I agree with that order. I'm also a big fan of Generations despite acknowledging its a bit of a rough movie. Into darkness is the worst movie in my opinion and should be listed far far below everything else. I agree that the motion picture is a great Star Trek premise but unlike Generations it's just not fun enough to watch, I feel like I'm still watching the shuttle ride now. First contact and undiscovered country are very harshly ranked, insurrection a bit too, but not as much. Otherwise, great list.
Born in the late 80s, I really liked Archer, I loved that show.
do you mean enterprise or archer the show about spies
I love Enterprise too. I put it right behind DS9 in my ranking. Enterprise had rough patches but like the characters and story arcs really make it some of my favorite scifi ive seen
DS9 had several years of top-notch TV science fiction. But it went beyond the science into some emotional, even gut wrenching moments. Also my favorite Star Trek series.
The rest of the TV series rankings in the video are very close to mine.
Voyager has the best premise.
Enterprise has the best sets and best doctor.
TNG has the best captain.
DS9 is just the best.
I think Voyager has the best doctor.
His character carried the show
although i prefer the unique essay format you usually do, it is good to have more frequent content from this channel inbetween the big ringers. if these quicker, youtube-y format helps achieve that i'm all for it.
My mileage did not vary with the TV series at least. You got my exact ranking, and I broadly agree with your reasoning. Nice.
This might sound crazy to you but Star Trek 5 the final frontier and Star Trek 9 insurrection are my favorite Star Trek movies then after that would have to be Star Trek 6 the undiscovered country Star Trek 8 first contact Star Trek 3 The search for Spock and finally Star Trek 7 generations my favorite Star Trek TV shows are deep Space nine and Voyager
Thank you for putting ST:TMP at the top of your list. It has it's flaws, but it is the only Star Trek movie that truly explores the unknown, and it has the scope and grandeur that is missing in the other films.
Patented TNG Episode Quality Guide:
1- Does Riker have a Beard?
2 - Is Troi in a uniform?
3 - Is it a Worf Episode?
If Yes to any of these questions, the episode in question will, at *worst* be watchable.
TV Series - I basically agree with your list, however I think Season 4 of ENT pushes it to the #4 place for me, above Voyager and below TOS.
Movies -
1 - 6 - I love everything about this movie. Also the Tie in with Tuvok in Voyager was really cool.
2 - 2 - KKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
3 - 8 - First Contact. I liked how they tied up the Picard/Borg Story with a bow. Also Borg Alice Krige makes me feel a kinda *way*
4 - 4 - Voyage Home - Time Travel, Scotty Talking into a mouse, and Nuclear Wessles. What's not to love.
5 - 3 - Search for Spock - Not...amazing...but it does what it needs to do I guess.
6 - 7 - Generations. Klingon Boob Window? Check. Duras Sisters? Check. A story that makes any kind of sense? Nupe.
7 - 9 - Insurrection. What the actual fuck. It's the middle of the goddamn Dominion war, the Enterprise is one of 12 of the most powerful ships in the fleet, and they make *this* ? At least it's not as bad as...
8 - 1 - The Slow Motion Picture. I know it's more "scifi" than the others, but it was paced really poorly. Also the amount of cock and balls you see through the jumpsuits is a bit absurd.
9 - 2009 Reboot. I just couldn't get into it. Chris Pine doesn't work as Kirk. Karl Urban and Zachary Quinto were solid choices though, I'll give them that.
10 - Beyond. Meh. I agree with you on this one. It's kinda...there.
11 - Into Darkness. Just...what?
12 - 5 - The Final Frontier. *What the fuck.*
13 - Nemesis - God I hate Nemesis, it's so dumb.
I've got thoughts on this list (the movies anyhow).
First off, I was pleasantly surprised to see Star Trek: The Motion Picture get the number one spot on the film rankings. A person favorite of mine, but can easily understand why some hate it. The fact that you stated that, 'it's the most Star Trek movie' made me smile hardcore. Perhaps it's the ribbing from fellow Trekkies over the decades that it received over the decades (The Slow Motion picture, The No Motion Picture) that makes it even more satisfying.
Second off, Generations over Wrath of Khan? Really? You literally gave Star Trek 2 way more praise than Generations then you give it the number 3 spot? Generations was half-baked in comparison to Khan. If it wasn't for you giving the top spot to the first Trek film, I'd have felt the film rankings was ridiculous in its entirety.
That’s why everyone has different opinions. I put Generations on top.
My rankings would be
10. Lower Decks
9. Discovery
8. Voyager
7. Enterprise
6. Picard
5. Short Treks
4. TAS
3. TOS
2. TNG
1. DS9
A good list!
Ngl I'm happy people started to recognize how awesome DS9 is.
[I just disagree with LD rank, but I get where you come from. And FC (the borg queen point is valid though)]
Movies:
1. Voyage Home
2. Wrath Of Khan
3. Undiscovered Country
4. First Contact
5. Motion Picture
6. Search For Spock
7. Beyond
8. Generations
9. Nemesis
10. Insurrection
11. 2009
12. Into Darkness
13. Final Frontier
Series:
1. DS9
2. TNG
3. TOS
4. VOY
5. ENT
6. LOW
7. SHO
8. DIS
9. PIC
10. TAS
Correlate reasonably well with yours, with a few drastic differences.
No reasons given - after all, this is all so subjective
DS9 is pretty consistent in these rankings, and I agree. It is by far the most well-done series with characters you just love and hate, sometimes at the same time. I do think Enterprise is being revitalized, so I wonder when we redo these lists, will it rank higher.
Anytime I watch a a ST ranking video I immediately have to go watch a bunch of DS9
Here are my rankings:
Movies:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. Undiscovered Country
4. The Voyage Home
5. The Search for Spock
6. The Motion Picture
7. Generations
8. Star Trek (2009)
9. Beyond
10. Insurrection
11. Nemesis
12. Final Frontier
13. Into Darkness
TV Series
1. DS9
2. TNG
3. TOS
4. Voyager
5. Enterprise
6. Short Treks
7. Discovery
8. Picard
9. TAS
10. Lower Decks
Undiscovered country also I think is a prime example of great trek, definitely the best of Myers... A film about a problem of those times, a longing for a solution, the well deserved send off for the original crew, and one of the best villains in the franchise, RIP Christopher Plummer
Movie rankings:
1: First Contact (one of my favorite films period, and proof you can make great blockbuster cinema and great Trek)
2: Wrath of Khan
3: Search for Spock (A personal favorite, I love the melancholy and the evocative visual imagery)
4: Voyage Home
5: Generations
6: Undiscovered Country
7: The Motion Picture (I'm with you that it's underrated and I adore the soundtrack, may be willing to rewatch soon and reevaluate)
8: Insurrection (it's such an old hat dunk to call this an unmemorable TNG two-parter, but facts are facts)
9: Star Trek (2009)
10: Final Frontier (it's bad, but likable and fun enough to be endearing)
11: Nemesis (tbh I haven't seen this since walking out of the theater hating this movie almost twenty years ago)
12: Into Darkness (another one that left me walking out of the theater in a bad mood, so much so I haven't brought myself to see Beyond yet)
My list varies indeed as you stated in the beginning. you make a solid case, and make it very eloquently. I have some difficulty being objective to the quality in regards to my nostalgia.
A lot of people regard the Orville as a better Star Trek than the current iterations of Star Trek. I’m wondering about your opinions about the Orville.
What I like about your lists is how well thought-out they are. You really work through your thought processes.
Needless to say, some things about it surprised me. How much you LIKED Enterprise, for example.
And I thought that it was universally agreed upon that V and Nemisis were the two worst films, though there is some wiggle-room in arguing which is slightly worse. Personally, I think Nemesis needs to take the bottom spot.
I was also surprised by how much you disliked Picard. I watched your analysis of it a few months ago, and was very surprised by how much attention you paid to what the camera was doing as opposed to what the story was doing. The story was doing some truly amazing things.
Since you ask, my lists will follow.
Have you guys put together any thoughts or discussion on For All Mankind?
I'm sorry but I have to ask: when will we get new episodes of wikisurfer?
It's by far my most favorite podcast and I don't know how many times I've listened to it in these two years without the show
Wouldn't you know it, we've got a massive new season written and are very soon looking for a new home to support the show. Soon, my friend. VERY SOON.
100% agree on the series, but way different on the movies.
"wrath of khan" is far and away the best trek movie.
after that, i'd rank "undiscovered country" and "voyage home". probably TMP after that.
and uh, "galaxy quest" to round out the top five.
80's baby here, back when movies had depth, substance, structure, musical score, innovation etc. Every age group's list is very different (pureist vs the low attention / intellectual), so here's mine. For me, the debate doesn't even start until #4.
13 Insurrection
12 The Final Frontier
11 The Motion Picture
10 Generations
9 Beyond
8 Nemesis
7 Into Darkness
6 The Search for Spock
5 2009 (Kelvin)
4 The Voyage Home
3 First Contact
2 The Undiscovered Country
1 Wrath of Khan
My Ranking:
Shows:
10. The Animated Series
9. Short Treks
8. Picard
7. The Next Generation
6. The Original Series
5. Lower Decks
4. Enterprise
3. Voyager
2. Discovery
1. Deep Space Nine
Lower Decks...above..... ....... .... TNG 😖😖💀
@@sumeunggai5665 i've ranked the series based on the overall feel, not how good they actually are. TNG has many better episodes than lower decks.
I'm currently re-watching Voyager for the third time...love it! Movie-wise 1. The Motion Picture 2. The Voyage Home 3. The Wrath of Khan. 😝👍
I really do think you nailed it, all of it. Thanks!
I agree with the TV series list 100%. The movie list not so much but I'm so happy you put TMP as your No.1 and agree with everything you said.
I put Wrath of Khan at the top, followed by undiscovered country, first contact and the voyage home in fourth place. I think that these are the most character driven films with the strongest themes. Wrath of khan makes Kirk deal with aging, his own mortality, and the consequences of his past. Star Trek 6 makes Kirk deal with his past, and come to terms with his life and forgive those who wronged him. He grows past his own hatred of Klingons. First contact makes Picard deal with his trauma from the best of both worlds, and to rise above his trauma, and recognize his own desire for revenge. Star Trek 4 is just fun as hell to watch, and the save the whales/environmentally conscious theme is great too.
What do you mean by "marvel-ized"? It seems to encompass at lot of your objections to all of the streaming era treks, but the term never gets a strong definition. Otherwise, fun to listen to and very thoughtful ranking!
"Marvelized" means a particular style of the blockbuster format, that is made up more of quippy lines and nostalgia traps at the expense of story.
@@Trekspertise I agree with your critique of the style, but am curious why it's particularly connected with Marvel. The emphasis on weirdly quippy dialogue goes back a long ways in action movies, so far that mocking it is a significant part of a send up like Hot Fuzz. I'd wager (and you, as the more experienced film critic and film maker, are welcome to correct me) that the problematic style is less Marvel house style and more a specific "Wheedonesque" version of it where everyone is too clever for their own good and a zinger of a punch line is always to be pursued, even if the line itself is significantly out of character or out of the way of the larger mood.
How to people dislike such good trek content? Like wtf
?!?!
Because people are people.
Oddly enough, my favorite Trek films/series aren’t what I would recommend to newcomers who are interested in the fandom.
I agree that DS9 is the best Trek series. I think Beyond is the best of the Kelvin films. I appreciate that your favorite film WASN’T Wrath of Khan, because most people list that as their favorite. I’m surprised that you listed Generations so high on your list. Most Trek fans I have talked to hate Generations. I personally love that film. I also like the Motion Picture, but it’s certainly isn’t my #1. 🖖🏻
To me, Deep Space Nine is the best thing to ever happen to Star Trek.
I think it's interesting that the deleted scenes of Nemesis figured into your ranking of the movies. In my mind, the deleted scenes are what the movie could have been and not what it actually is, so they would never figure into my own rankings. If anything, it makes me dislike Nemesis even more than I previously did, because the deleted scenes tell me that we could have got a better movie but instead we got what we got.
Re: TV series lineup you pretty much nailed it, and to my utter delight you were able to be frank about new trek in a completely rational, unassailable manner.
(for what it's worth I actually enjoyed Lower Decks but I agree completely that its tone was confusing and ultimately it wasn't really star trek in mood...)