I saw someone who came from money posting about how companies like Deps, OSP, Grow, should have no right to talk about knockoffs because “they should have done better and marketed their stuff better in the United States.” I can’t believe how out of touch that was coming from someone who’s daddy’s money helped them attempt to fish in the opens. I don’t think people realize how hard it is for Japanese companies to become successful. Luckily Ben is helping them massively but they still have no competition against the big box store brands. Completely unjust.
A men. I wasn’t going to say that stuff when I commented but I’m glad someone did lol. Fishings about good people going out and having fun to me but to get greedy and to steal someone’s idea is kinda low. Especially when you’re looked up to by a bunch of kids.
One Thing that does suck is people sitting online waiting for baits to drop and then taking them to eBay and selling them for 3 times the money... A lot of us don't have time to sit and wait for these swimbaits to drop.
Yeah, that is a huge problem in the swimbait world especially. I just wish fishing was lame again so all the actual fishermen can just get the baits they need and will fish😂
@@crazybassfisher'm sure that's not what you wish because places like the Hookup Tackle will cease to exist because REAL fishermen will just go onto sites like digitaka and get actual JDM reels for half the price!
Like tickets to a game or concert. Also, collectibles in general. The inspiration comes from their authenticity and unique and valued ability or delivery. Nobody expects to copy a song, or pretend to be someone famous, ...so they can eventually put the original artists/athletes out of business. Why would anyone be inspired to produce something from their own Genius ideas and designs, knowing they'll be ignored, unappreciated and forgotten because of them?
@@shaneomacski23 Do you really think the future of retailers like the Hookup isn't put into doubt every time an iconic JDM product gets sold at Walmart??
i never thought i would see the day. but bass fishermen are being more bitchy than fly fisherman. you guys always have some shit to cry about and always virtue signaling. people are gonna keep bass. if its within their legal right. theres nothing wrong with it. people are gonna make knock offs. if its in their legal right. theres nothing wrong with it.
I gotta give you credit. This is one of the best videos you have ever put out. You can tell that your time with Ben and the hookup tackle has given you a wealth of knowledge and experience. Keep it up.
The number of nearly duplicated "new products" at icast was surprising. The Zman copy of the megabass dark sleeper should be a landmark case for patent infringement with a fresh out of school lawyer. Slam dunk.
Totally agree. The part that gets me is these companies and "pros" have no problem lying to your face and saying its a totally new innovation that they helped develop and its an original idea and they have no problem defending it as that. Its garbage, its embarrasing as an american angler and those "pros" have zero credibility once they do this to the little guy in japan or the us or wherever. We need people with big influence to speak up and stomp this out. People are ruining this sport by money grabs and they could care less.
I feel like being a bigger angler like them and calling them all out by name would help lol. The company the baits under too. I’m surprised there isn’t copy right issues with some of this.
I think you’re right about alot of things like knock offs, but I think you’re wrong about some things .. can’t help that there’s less places to fish in Japan, can’t change the geographical dynamics of the earth. And I can absolutely guarantee you can go in biwa on a day where they’re active and catch “multiple” on American lures they’ve seen, especially reaction lures, I saw kento catch a mondo on a absolute giant plug/ whopper plopper which if you think about isn’t new at all, just cuz it had a giant body I think if he way throwing any other style plopper like a choppo- he’d get bit. I think they maybe just aren’t as like minded about fishing as we are.. I don’t think it I know that’s a fact especially in fishing, and berkley didn’t re create the Flag, they made their own style plastic glide. I don’t see the problem w that, especially if it sucks. I don’t hear Megabass whining about swimbaits- oh wait cuz they weren’t the first either. And your livelihood is selling and marketing their product.. so to come out with this type of content is hypocritical bro, Marketing and lure designing will always be a problem in the fishing industry… at the end of the day fish are fish and we are humans who go fishing.. if Japanese people have such a hard time catching bass maybe they should catch the billion other species they have that grow giant that we DONT have. You’re comparing a tiny island with 5 lakes to USA.. you feel bad for the people I get it… but I don’t think you need to be feeling any of it ..life is bigger than that
I think coming off the Spro x KGB collab, this would’ve been a perfect opportunity for Berkley to show love to a small Japanese brand, help them grow their market and fan base, and put out a cool product in larger quantities so more people could fish the bait. But of course they didn’t because it’s Berkley…
Geoff, Thank you for making this video. I believe that the reason why big companies don't collaborate with smaller bait manufacturers is greed! If they collaborated then they bi companies will have to give some of the money to the smaller companies, which is unacceptable in their mind. They want it all with no exception!
I can feel from both sides.. I love swimbait fishing and all but I got bigger priorities that to spend $60, $80, $100+ for a lure that I have a chance of breaking off or losing. If the knock off swims well and gets bit, imma buy it. However nothing beats the originals
Yeah Geoff I hear ya and agree with you. I hope some of these company's see the success and positivity from the Spro KGB collaboration and follow suite. Most of the lures that come out now are just another square bill or just another craw. Like do we really need another square bill or craw? No we do not! A lot of these company's just see the $$$ and want it, the less hands on the pile of money means more for the few guys that own the company. These company's need to grow up and get with it so we can move the sport forward instead of being stagnant.
I was a Dell Computer guy back in the stock heyday. Dell model was not to be a major innovator, but often to see what HP and Compaq were producing, tear it apart, get lessons learned, improve parts, figure out how to do it cheaper, then go grab market share. It was very successful, made the Board of Directors happy, made the stock split 6 times, created a lot of wealth in an employee stock owned company. Dell started in a dorm room and trunk of a car. You might disagree with that business model as a fishing purist, but companies answer to stockholders and Directors for ROI…….it’s not really about fishing it’s business ……Walmart moves into small towns all the time and crushes local businesses.
The collaboration concept is the way. As a garage maker I call other makers if I like something on their bait and ask for permission to imitate. We need to find someone who can foster the connection between the US and Japanese companies! That is a huge opportunity if we can find that person…. Maybe even a tackle shop?!?! 😉
You definitely have a valid point about companies copying baits and I agree that it would be cool if more American companies did collaborations and both parties would benefit 😁
And to answer your question at the end if I'm for or against knockoffs. The only knockoffs that I don't mind using are yum dingers over a sanko. And that's simply just a durability issue. While fishing on a kayak I have limited gear and I need stuff to last without trying to bring a ton of it at the same time.
I am glad to hear your perspective, not are you speaking as an angler but you also understand the manufacturing and retail side. Great job... I hope that other people in the business speak out in support of this issue.
Well said brother! If we don’t support these guys we will lose the attention to detail and quality and craftsmanship that stands these companies out from all the rest, also it’s about the integrity and the passion that drives these innovative lure makers.
I don’t see a reason why anyone would be so mad about knockoff brands when they work the same way as the original design, though I do understand that knockoffs can steal the spotlight of the originals
You’re absolutely right brother. In the recent years I’ve realized how bad of a problem this really is. It’s sad to see true “innovation” and engineering masterpieces disappearing in the fishing industry. I feel the urge to do something and stand up for these small yet extremely innovative companies with very talented bait makers, but like you said there’s not much to do. From a legal standpoint these smaller brands don’t stand a chance against the big corporations lawyers. It just makes my sad.
The collaborations is a great idea. However, I believe that anywhere there's money to be made, someone with no integrity will shamelessly copy a product and grab all the cash they can. It happens in the software industry all the time. The only way we can speak to these big companies is with our wallets and to refuse to purchase and/or use the products they rip off. That's all I really think we can do.
Agreed 100%. I was annoyed at this from the jump and I gotta say, the uproar was well deserved and a breath of fresh air. People are finally starting to realize just how ridiculous it is. I have and will continue to spend the extra money to support the original bait.
I love this video. I’m against knock offs and will Always support the small business. I have become a fan of JDM products and will continue to support Japanese innovation. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🤙🏾🤙🏾 Thanks for speaking out and creating awareness.
I’m glad these knock offs are getting as good as they are now . Sick of the prices getting pushed sky high , bait drops and the second hand dealers buying everything up . Piss on you swimbait guys . Most baits aren’t as good as the claims lust like these TH-camrs thinking they are something they are not ! Fishing has changes to this stupid exclusivity competition. That has what’s gotten bad so I’m glad these fools are losing . If you don’t get the product out someone else will !
Your absolutely right the amount of knock offs you see now a days is ridiculous and it's not only the Japanese companies getting ripped off either it's the small American guys too that make their own lures for example Throwback baits I saw a knock off of his wakewalker the other day on Amazon from a company called BASSDASH everything looked the exact same down to the eyes.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. It’s pretty scummy to so blatantly copy someone else’s hard work and on top of that have a show reward such crappy behaviour with a soft bait of the year tittle. that is just wrong on so many levels. I feel truly bad for the guy at growdesign works.
I definitely see the small companies getting screwed over. I wish the companies that take their designs would at least say it was “inspired by” . But no company will ever admit they stole a design. Again, some lures simply are going to look similar due to the fact you can only do so much to a lure.
Given you fish these all the time, what is your recommedation for a combo to fish these larger swimbaits? Or perhaps you have a video where you discuss that?
Anytime the subject of knock-offs comes up, it's so easy read through the comments and pick out the people who have never created anything original or created anything of value.
Using your main example here, they retail for about $46. OK, not cheap but I want to support that company. The bait has not been available for over a year! If I really want one, they are about $100 on auction sites. Same with many small company hand made swims. They do drops rarely, and the Buzzards buy them up to resell at crazy prices. KGB did the Spro collaboration which seems like a win for both. Not sure if the Spro is as good as the original hand made and hand tested though. Maybe Berkley offered something like this to Grow and they declined.
"Why don't these large corporations do collaborations with some of these smaller Japanese brands?" DUDE, LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK! Spread that message far and wide.
One thing that goes on with these big companies that is not talked about is the big company's will give eather a one time or a certain amount per bait to these smaller companies that is never made public. FYI
These big companies don’t want collaborating, they want all the credit for innovation and more importantly the money. I’ll stick to the real deal, I’ll wait for the drop and get it when I get it. Quality and action speak volumes in my older age. Berkley is turning into a knock off company.
Man it's very sad and I agree with you One hundred percent I will be very upset when Ben shines light on it last year it makes me not want to buy anything from these companies it's very sad at the end of the day
What’s sad is, I don’t remember seeing anything that really caught my eye😂 everything that wasn’t “inspired” by JDM Tackle was just another craw bait, another crankbait, another paddle tail swimbait, like, nothing crazy cool, I might have missed something though. I’m a swimbait guy so I can’t tell what a cool conventional bait would look like😂
Thanks for this! I think we should somehow put together an organization to help JDMs create US-hubs/companies that do allow them to patent and protect their designs. There has got to be more that can be done. Collabs would be great as well.
the last bit about ‘what happened to supporting the little guy’ really hit man, it’s so true. people’s morals are fed to them depending on what news or media they consume, they forget how to analyze a situation on their own. i hope most folks can claim ignorance, because if you knew and still rock with it, you’re wack
Honestly nothing will ever change until it happens in reverse. When one of the big companies gets ripped off to a substantial loss. They will have to be the ones that push the legislation.
The fight they can’t do, do you say that because in a court of law- differences can be made between the two? I’ve often wondered how deep that goes down. Because you have so many variations in even a sinko worm. Temp at pour, cure process, mixture, grade, weight, salt, scent, I mean just so many variations. Hard baits you have, resin brand, mixture, microsphere mixture, clear coat, the clear coat process, hook and line guide placement, etc. In one aspect we want to, “fine tune” and on the other side it tickles on the KO line. IMO the company being somewhat silent about it, tells me they are benefiting from it. Their page has to have 1000x more traffic now. I hope it helps their company grow! I want both versions lol.
I’m pretty sure it does not go that deep, look at the Zman chatterbait, any chatterbait that has the blade attached to the head directly is not allowed. I’m sure it doesn’t matter if the blade was made out of a different material because at the end of the day, it would still be called a blade
Bro!! I was disgusted by the theft and to see it rewarded just shows the downfall of I-Cast. I think we should do a backing or gather investments so grow can expand and add employees. Not sure if go fund me is the right thing but I’d invest in them. I love the 150!! Can’t get a 170 anywhere. Have you thrown your crawler I sent? I inboxed you about it. Hope you like the Nite Bite! Jon Jon’s Outdoor btw
Did you see any OSP Saikoro rubber dice knocked off? Seeing them sold out at $25 a bag on tackle warehouse was mind blowing. Saw some dice knock offs on Amazon.
As a Japanese fisherman who love using deps products, I agree with your opinion but knock offs is now happening not only Japanese fishing companies but also like dollar yen company such as Daiso and they sell them at very low cost…
Thanks for speaking out. Chris Zaldains new Googan / Bass Mafia rip off of the mag draft. Mike Iaconelli, not known for swimbaits, shilling the Berkeley Nessie. The Agent E rip off of the dark sleeper. List probably goes on. I pay attention to small channels and company’s on new stuff these days. Willing to pay a bit more for better quality and to support these guys.
I think the cull shad is not a knockoff, it might swim similar, but the body, shape and overall design is pretty different. The only thing they have in common is the hook harness, which, that hook harness has been done on a lot of different lures, both Japanese and American
Patent laws are different in America and protect certain territories. Like for example Zman licensed Evergreen Jack Hammer Chatterbaits and it is patented in the USA so technically companies can not use the same design in the United States. But in Japan the Evergreen Jack Hammer Chatterbait design is copied by all Japanese lure companies because its not patented in japan?
People think they're the same but they're not. Smaller companies focus way more on making each product as good as possible. Big companies, however, just pumps out baits good or bad.
The Grow Design and OSP knock offs really p#$$ed me off. The fact that some pros who I will not name, didn't even give credit really bothered me. Those two companies I've supported for decades and I gotta tell ya, I can live without buying any more of there products. It's just so sad.
I feel like fisherman are generous when others are watching or when it looks good to be. Behind closed doors, everyone has their own agenda for themselves
As a fisherman, I don’t buy knock offs. I see rip offs of Ito vision 110s, Berkley is bad, Googan Squad is bad, Bass Mafia is bad too. So, it is really up to the consumer to decide who they are going to support. great video, and I stand with The Hook up Tackle
I was going to comment about the hinkle and throwback knockoffs cause at least the sellers of those don’t try to act like they made something new and innovative. Stealing intellectual property definitely isn’t cool but they proudly advertise those baits as knockoffs so at least they’re willing to admit they ripped off the designer 😂
I'd rather not have all knock offs just because it's that many less people throwing those baits. I'm fortunate & I never see anyone throwing big swimbaits around me. I'm sure there is but I have never seen anyone with big bait. I have people ask me about what I'm fishing for or catching when they see any of my big baits tied on. I've only been fishing big swimbaits about 3 years. Glide baits about year n half. Ton of companies copied the cover scat!!!
Until companies hire attorneys to enforce copyright , it won’t stop. Most of the business is going to go to the cheapest or best made product. I feel these larger companies should be licensing designs from these smaller companies. I try not to buy knockoffs when possible but there are a lot out there.. The only copies I would consider buying is if the company doesn’t have a certain color I want in a soft plastic or I can’t get the product within a reasonable time. Swimbait drops that sell out in seconds with no more for months. I would definitely consider a knockoff because the likelyhood of getting is it anyway is slim. I am buying them to use and not resell. The resellers are also a big issue we have in swimbaits and special megabass colors. I am not rewarding someone to flip a bait.
Interesting dispute several years ago here in Australia. A large (for Oz anyway) lure producer accused a small garage producer of copying his lures. Absolutely unjustified in this case. Garage lure maker had some of the big company guys lures. So set fire to them and posted a video to facebook. Others jooined in as well burning their lures!😀 Was some very populat viewing and comments at the time!😀 You guys should try it!
Absolutely agree, I would rather buy from the little guy and get a good bait then a knock off that isnt that great( Berkley has done it again this yr, last yr I feel it was the Gilly)... Would love to see more collabs like the Spro/KGB....like in a back gliding bait..Or Damiki Honey nuggets, i love them and catch a lot of fish on them but now their going gone! The struggle us real..
I agree and the original is almost always better than the KO but all the dudes flipping Flags doesn't help. Same goes for flipping any bait that gets a KO.
Soon as I saw the nessie and the bronco bug, immediately thought of the jdm baits. Shameless knockoffs, honestly. Not only that, but money above everything else drives the sport here in the states. On the flipside of big bait fishing, any of these big companies that started making more finesse size hard baits when bfs took off on the mainstream market. Even then, they pale in comparison to their jdm counterparts. Its just dumb that money is the one thing driving the market here, since most of what comes out here in the states is some rehashed bullshit that was shown last year. The epitome of "Same shit, different pile"
Although I agree 100% with it is wrong that these big brand name companies are copying JDM styles. But I wanted to comment on the part about collaborations. I also think it can be contributed to the JDM bait design makers have too much pride in their art that they do not want to collaborate. As a whole the Japanese culture is a culture that stands on pride to the fullest. And I respect that 100%
When the knockoffs are identical in its "utility design" instead of being a "version of", it's incredibly damaging to innovation in the sport not just the industry.
It's a problem. There is going to be less incentive to innovate if the baitmaker knows their product is going to get Amazon Basic'd if it's good. I like the idea of collaborations over what companies are doing to these poor bastards. And I think bait makers should be a lot more open to doing them because that is the only middle ground. I don't know how patents work but I'm shocked how little is brand specific these days. How many fucking cover scats are there now? It's getting out of control across the board. Swimbaits are just another symptom of a bigger problem with these companies. 100% agree.
Speaking on the innovation, it's no coincidence that they're killing it in many many aspects. Not just products (which are amazing: cars electronics chef knives -- u name it) but they go off on everything, skateboarding, snowboarding, clothing, music, baseball and on and on. The densely packed cities breed innovation, how're you going to stand out? NYC and LA are also powerhouses of cultural creation.
Why can’t Japanese brands sponsor American pros? I feel like that would be the best way to stay ahead of the trend of knockoffs. But ultimately they would have to prepare for a larger audience and be able to quadruple their production.
Japanese brands have sponsored American pros, but the Japanese companies that have sponsored the pros can afford/sustain having American pros on the team. Deps, Megabass, Ever Green, Duo Realis etc
The bigger companies in JDM should merge with the smaller ones shimano- Daiwa- Megabass- Duo Realis merging with smaller brands- Also mid size companies like one that specializes in hard baits merging with a Tackle or Soft bait oriented One-- Imakatsu with Bottom up or Deps with Nishine- Gamakatsu with Jackal--
Good video. Not interested in the Berkeley glide but the cull shad has piqued my interest. Being $10 cheaper than the magdraft is nice but the clip on hook instead of the magnet and the honeycomb design makes it innovative enough I don’t consider it a knock off.
That's really where swim baits has really taken off changing the platform of angling into a micro franchise that propagates that creators proprietary contribution to the game.
Exactly what I’ve been saying they should collab like Spro and KGB but they’re heads are so far up their asses they don’t think like that. “Afraid do google translate” had me dyinggg😂
It was good to see y’all at ICOPY but It’s so disappointing to see the blatant copies of other baits and for one to win “best of show” last year was a joke. Berkeley really gets their moneys worth when they send Mike Ike to Japan. I guess now Jacob Wheeler is doing it for Rapala. There is no shame.
Not sure you have covered it, but another issue is EVERY company making EVERY product. They are just making fuel for the clearance sections. Does every company (especially rod companies) need a reel? If you aren't going to top the current leaders then why do it? I understand upstarts like KastKing trying to offer value, but I have seen Duckett or Ark make reels that cost more than a Curado (which they are no where near).
“Fuel for the clearance section” 😂😂 haven’t heard that one before. It is crazy how every company is trying to make everything now, I don’t know who buys these new reels either 😂
OK so let me start off with i liked the video and im a subscriber. SO as im watching this video in bed my wife goes..... "but all your baits look the same, all the spinnerbaits and poppers and crank baits, so who copied them?" I pull out 3 spinnerbaits, 2 Japanese and 1 US brand, I ask her "thous don't look different to you?" My wife, a lawyer from NYC, never fished a day in her life says "are you F$#king stupid? That's the same Sh&t" Gave me a good laugh....
I got 5 kids, & in todays economy ill have to say im definitely leaning more towards a $10 glide than a $50+ glide if you can evem find them in stock anywhere and $75+ for the ebayers who buy up stock.. 🤷♂️🤷♂️ I understand it from both sides .. but hey look at glock there is dozen companies who copy the G19, but in the end there is 1 and only g19... at the end of the day the flagship is still the flagship, we got bigger things to worry about.
I feel like it would be more tolerable if these big companies at least gave the OG some love. Even if they're not collaborating, at least be like "ya it's damn near a copy. It's a great bait and GDW made an amazing product. We want to take inspiration and bring that product to the mass market who can't afford or can't find these baits" They HAVE to know that claiming its their own innovation will backfire. I can't imagine anyone at these companies, let alone the pros that spout their bullshit, actually believe they're innovating.
It could be that simple really, at least acknowledge what’s actually happening. The blatant dodging and ignoring the elephant in the room is just insensitive
Swimbait fishing killed the tournament fishing style of fishing for me. And I like to support the smaller companies. They take the time to support all of us via social media and I promote them as well. Besides that they are real people you can easily reach out to ask a question about their product they reach out. Just more of a one on one feeling more personal supporting small garage bait made companies
Money makes some people do crazy stuff. Look at the walleye cheaters from last year, look at Mike Long, etc. Just like your comments about Japan, our fish are getting harder to catch and all the JDM baits I’ve bought from THUT have given me an edge tournament and fun fishing
I agree but let’s be honest not much more you can re “event” in the fishing industry anymore. A lot of these are collaborations but hey if a company makes it cheaper and I can get it easier I’m gonna buy that. Supply and demand
As a garage bait maker myself I've been saying this for years! It's the reason I dislike Johnny Morris. He can take a hot underground bait put one extra rib or bump on the body and sell basically the same thing at a fraction on the price
@@Samuel-kz3vo it is not what they will do without my money, but what I will do with the money I did not spend on Berkley. I will get it all in quarters so that I can watch your mom blow a dog at the local peep show. She usually charges a dime, but I feel sorry for having d'bag children like you.
The worst part about it is the interview on Wired2fish where the Berkeley designer goes on about how challenging it was to work on, all the different things they had to overcome, how innovative they were and talking as if it's the greatest achievement of his life. It's like dude, you literally took an existing bait, tweaked it the tinniest amount and put it out. That's the insulting part about it all. I could not imagine how embarrassed I would be if I was him. I couldn't sleep at night.
I saw someone who came from money posting about how companies like Deps, OSP, Grow, should have no right to talk about knockoffs because “they should have done better and marketed their stuff better in the United States.” I can’t believe how out of touch that was coming from someone who’s daddy’s money helped them attempt to fish in the opens. I don’t think people realize how hard it is for Japanese companies to become successful. Luckily Ben is helping them massively but they still have no competition against the big box store brands. Completely unjust.
A men. I wasn’t going to say that stuff when I commented but I’m glad someone did lol. Fishings about good people going out and having fun to me but to get greedy and to steal someone’s idea is kinda low. Especially when you’re looked up to by a bunch of kids.
One Thing that does suck is people sitting online waiting for baits to drop and then taking them to eBay and selling them for 3 times the money... A lot of us don't have time to sit and wait for these swimbaits to drop.
Yeah, that is a huge problem in the swimbait world especially. I just wish fishing was lame again so all the actual fishermen can just get the baits they need and will fish😂
@@crazybassfisher'm sure that's not what you wish because places like the Hookup Tackle will cease to exist because REAL fishermen will just go onto sites like digitaka and get actual JDM reels for half the price!
Like everything else, the community that we are in will also exploit it. It’s pretty lame.
Like tickets to a game or concert. Also, collectibles in general. The inspiration comes from their authenticity and unique and valued ability or delivery. Nobody expects to copy a song, or pretend to be someone famous, ...so they can eventually put the original artists/athletes out of business.
Why would anyone be inspired to produce something from their own Genius ideas and designs, knowing they'll be ignored, unappreciated and forgotten because of them?
@@shaneomacski23 Do you really think the future of retailers like the Hookup isn't put into doubt every time an iconic JDM product gets sold at Walmart??
Good on you for speaking up brother! We need to stop this epidemic and awareness is the first step.
i never thought i would see the day. but bass fishermen are being more bitchy than fly fisherman. you guys always have some shit to cry about and always virtue signaling.
people are gonna keep bass. if its within their legal right. theres nothing wrong with it. people are gonna make knock offs. if its in their legal right. theres nothing wrong with it.
I gotta give you credit. This is one of the best videos you have ever put out. You can tell that your time with Ben and the hookup tackle has given you a wealth of knowledge and experience. Keep it up.
Ben has given me an inside look on how the industry is run and how businesses run. It’s very fascinating to learn the ins and outs
The number of nearly duplicated "new products" at icast was surprising. The Zman copy of the megabass dark sleeper should be a landmark case for patent infringement with a fresh out of school lawyer. Slam dunk.
"capitalism breeds innovation"
That zman bait was a clown of a copy. I dunno who the hell would but that over the Megabass. It’s not like they’re hard to get either.
Lol
Totally agree. The part that gets me is these companies and "pros" have no problem lying to your face and saying its a totally new innovation that they helped develop and its an original idea and they have no problem defending it as that. Its garbage, its embarrasing as an american angler and those "pros" have zero credibility once they do this to the little guy in japan or the us or wherever. We need people with big influence to speak up and stomp this out. People are ruining this sport by money grabs and they could care less.
I feel like being a bigger angler like them and calling them all out by name would help lol. The company the baits under too. I’m surprised there isn’t copy right issues with some of this.
Too many ppl with followings are scared to speak up bc they might screw up future deals. Shout out to you for calling out the bullshit!
Maybe take into factor, not everyone can afford these $75-$750 swimbaits? There's plenty of good reasons to have lower costs for the consumer
I think you’re right about alot of things like knock offs, but I think you’re wrong about some things .. can’t help that there’s less places to fish in Japan, can’t change the geographical dynamics of the earth. And I can absolutely guarantee you can go in biwa on a day where they’re active and catch “multiple” on American lures they’ve seen, especially reaction lures, I saw kento catch a mondo on a absolute giant plug/ whopper plopper which if you think about isn’t new at all, just cuz it had a giant body I think if he way throwing any other style plopper like a choppo- he’d get bit. I think they maybe just aren’t as like minded about fishing as we are.. I don’t think it I know that’s a fact especially in fishing, and berkley didn’t re create the Flag, they made their own style plastic glide. I don’t see the problem w that, especially if it sucks. I don’t hear Megabass whining about swimbaits- oh wait cuz they weren’t the first either. And your livelihood is selling and marketing their product.. so to come out with this type of content is hypocritical bro, Marketing and lure designing will always be a problem in the fishing industry… at the end of the day fish are fish and we are humans who go fishing.. if Japanese people have such a hard time catching bass maybe they should catch the billion other species they have that grow giant that we DONT have. You’re comparing a tiny island with 5 lakes to USA.. you feel bad for the people I get it… but I don’t think you need to be feeling any of it ..life is bigger than that
I think coming off the Spro x KGB collab, this would’ve been a perfect opportunity for Berkley to show love to a small Japanese brand, help them grow their market and fan base, and put out a cool product in larger quantities so more people could fish the bait. But of course they didn’t because it’s Berkley…
Geoff,
Thank you for making this video.
I believe that the reason why big companies don't collaborate with smaller bait manufacturers is greed! If they collaborated then they bi companies will have to give some of the money to the smaller companies, which is unacceptable in their mind. They want it all with no exception!
TRUTH. Companies now leave out the smaller manufacturer to collect all the profit.
welcome to capitalist america buddy. dont like it? go back to where you came from.
I can feel from both sides.. I love swimbait fishing and all but I got bigger priorities that to spend $60, $80, $100+ for a lure that I have a chance of breaking off or losing. If the knock off swims well and gets bit, imma buy it.
However nothing beats the originals
Yeah Geoff I hear ya and agree with you. I hope some of these company's see the success and positivity from the Spro KGB collaboration and follow suite. Most of the lures that come out now are just another square bill or just another craw. Like do we really need another square bill or craw? No we do not! A lot of these company's just see the $$$ and want it, the less hands on the pile of money means more for the few guys that own the company. These company's need to grow up and get with it so we can move the sport forward instead of being stagnant.
I was a Dell Computer guy back in the stock heyday. Dell model was not to be a major innovator, but often to see what HP and Compaq were producing, tear it apart, get lessons learned, improve parts, figure out how to do it cheaper, then go grab market share. It was very successful, made the Board of Directors happy, made the stock split 6 times, created a lot of wealth in an employee stock owned company. Dell started in a dorm room and trunk of a car.
You might disagree with that business model as a fishing purist, but companies answer to stockholders and Directors for ROI…….it’s not really about fishing it’s business ……Walmart moves into small towns all the time and crushes local businesses.
The collaboration concept is the way. As a garage maker I call other makers if I like something on their bait and ask for permission to imitate. We need to find someone who can foster the connection between the US and Japanese companies! That is a huge opportunity if we can find that person…. Maybe even a tackle shop?!?! 😉
You definitely have a valid point about companies copying baits and I agree that it would be cool if more American companies did collaborations and both parties would benefit 😁
And to answer your question at the end if I'm for or against knockoffs. The only knockoffs that I don't mind using are yum dingers over a sanko. And that's simply just a durability issue. While fishing on a kayak I have limited gear and I need stuff to last without trying to bring a ton of it at the same time.
I am glad to hear your perspective, not are you speaking as an angler but you also understand the manufacturing and retail side. Great job... I hope that other people in the business speak out in support of this issue.
Well said brother! If we don’t support these guys we will lose the attention to detail and quality and craftsmanship that stands these companies out from all the rest, also it’s about the integrity and the passion that drives these innovative lure makers.
i love cheap knockoffs saving money is first priority especially if im just gonna ruin it intentionally
I don’t see a reason why anyone would be so mad about knockoff brands when they work the same way as the original design, though I do understand that knockoffs can steal the spotlight of the originals
You’re absolutely right brother. In the recent years I’ve realized how bad of a problem this really is. It’s sad to see true “innovation” and engineering masterpieces disappearing in the fishing industry. I feel the urge to do something and stand up for these small yet extremely innovative companies with very talented bait makers, but like you said there’s not much to do. From a legal standpoint these smaller brands don’t stand a chance against the big corporations lawyers. It just makes my sad.
The collaborations is a great idea. However, I believe that anywhere there's money to be made, someone with no integrity will shamelessly copy a product and grab all the cash they can. It happens in the software industry all the time. The only way we can speak to these big companies is with our wallets and to refuse to purchase and/or use the products they rip off. That's all I really think we can do.
Agreed 100%. I was annoyed at this from the jump and I gotta say, the uproar was well deserved and a breath of fresh air. People are finally starting to realize just how ridiculous it is. I have and will continue to spend the extra money to support the original bait.
I love this video. I’m against knock offs and will Always support the small business. I have become a fan of JDM products and will continue to support Japanese innovation. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🤙🏾🤙🏾 Thanks for speaking out and creating awareness.
I’m glad these knock offs are getting as good as they are now . Sick of the prices getting pushed sky high , bait drops and the second hand dealers buying everything up . Piss on you swimbait guys . Most baits aren’t as good as the claims lust like these TH-camrs thinking they are something they are not ! Fishing has changes to this stupid exclusivity competition. That has what’s gotten bad so I’m glad these fools are losing . If you don’t get the product out someone else will !
Your absolutely right the amount of knock offs you see now a days is ridiculous and it's not only the Japanese companies getting ripped off either it's the small American guys too that make their own lures for example Throwback baits I saw a knock off of his wakewalker the other day on Amazon from a company called BASSDASH everything looked the exact same down to the eyes.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. It’s pretty scummy to so blatantly copy someone else’s hard work and on top of that have a show reward such crappy behaviour with a soft bait of the year tittle. that is just wrong on so many levels. I feel truly bad for the guy at growdesign works.
I definitely see the small companies getting screwed over. I wish the companies that take their designs would at least say it was “inspired by” . But no company will ever admit they stole a design. Again, some lures simply are going to look similar due to the fact you can only do so much to a lure.
Given you fish these all the time, what is your recommedation for a combo to fish these larger swimbaits? Or perhaps you have a video where you discuss that?
Anytime the subject of knock-offs comes up, it's so easy read through the comments and pick out the people who have never created anything original or created anything of value.
Using your main example here, they retail for about $46. OK, not cheap but I want to support that company. The bait has not been available for over a year! If I really want one, they are about $100 on auction sites.
Same with many small company hand made swims. They do drops rarely, and the Buzzards buy them up to resell at crazy prices. KGB did the Spro collaboration which seems like a win for both. Not sure if the Spro is as good as the original hand made and hand tested though.
Maybe Berkley offered something like this to Grow and they declined.
Good points!
"Why don't these large corporations do collaborations with some of these smaller Japanese brands?" DUDE, LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK! Spread that message far and wide.
One thing that goes on with these big companies that is not talked about is the big company's will give eather a one time or a certain amount per bait to these smaller companies that is never made public. FYI
I’m glad you said something because I literally filmed that bait not even realizing. Now that I’ve gone back and compared it’s obvious.
There’s nothing I can comment that you haven’t already said, loved that bit and the end abt the little guy. Love your content keep it up
These big companies don’t want collaborating, they want all the credit for innovation and more importantly the money. I’ll stick to the real deal, I’ll wait for the drop and get it when I get it. Quality and action speak volumes in my older age. Berkley is turning into a knock off company.
Man it's very sad and I agree with you One hundred percent I will be very upset when Ben shines light on it last year it makes me not want to buy anything from these companies it's very sad at the end of the day
I agree fully. I have been seeing this over the years. Were there any baits that you think would have or should have won?
What’s sad is, I don’t remember seeing anything that really caught my eye😂 everything that wasn’t “inspired” by JDM Tackle was just another craw bait, another crankbait, another paddle tail swimbait, like, nothing crazy cool, I might have missed something though. I’m a swimbait guy so I can’t tell what a cool conventional bait would look like😂
Bro I recently got the Nessie 7 and rapala bronco bug at Walmart and didn’t even know they were knock offs until I came across your video!
Thanks for this! I think we should somehow put together an organization to help JDMs create US-hubs/companies that do allow them to patent and protect their designs. There has got to be more that can be done. Collabs would be great as well.
Interesting video. Thanks for shedding the light.
the last bit about ‘what happened to supporting the little guy’ really hit man, it’s so true. people’s morals are fed to them depending on what news or media they consume, they forget how to analyze a situation on their own. i hope most folks can claim ignorance, because if you knew and still rock with it, you’re wack
Honestly nothing will ever change until it happens in reverse. When one of the big companies gets ripped off to a substantial loss. They will have to be the ones that push the legislation.
Sadly this is true and this is "proud" America. Bronco bug by Rapala is just OSP craw. Yet I've read about Rapala lawsuits for there cranks ironicly.
The fight they can’t do, do you say that because in a court of law- differences can be made between the two? I’ve often wondered how deep that goes down. Because you have so many variations in even a sinko worm. Temp at pour, cure process, mixture, grade, weight, salt, scent, I mean just so many variations. Hard baits you have, resin brand, mixture, microsphere mixture, clear coat, the clear coat process, hook and line guide placement, etc. In one aspect we want to, “fine tune” and on the other side it tickles on the KO line. IMO the company being somewhat silent about it, tells me they are benefiting from it. Their page has to have 1000x more traffic now. I hope it helps their company grow! I want both versions lol.
I’m pretty sure it does not go that deep, look at the Zman chatterbait, any chatterbait that has the blade attached to the head directly is not allowed. I’m sure it doesn’t matter if the blade was made out of a different material because at the end of the day, it would still be called a blade
In the course of the last few years I am almost only buying jdm-stuff because I admire them for their thrive to perfection.
Bro!! I was disgusted by the theft and to see it rewarded just shows the downfall of I-Cast. I think we should do a backing or gather investments so grow can expand and add employees. Not sure if go fund me is the right thing but I’d invest in them. I love the 150!! Can’t get a 170 anywhere. Have you thrown your crawler I sent? I inboxed you about it. Hope you like the Nite Bite! Jon Jon’s Outdoor btw
Did you see any OSP Saikoro rubber dice knocked off? Seeing them sold out at $25 a bag on tackle warehouse was mind blowing. Saw some dice knock offs on Amazon.
Thank you for speaking out on this!
As a Japanese fisherman who love using deps products, I agree with your opinion but knock offs is now happening not only Japanese fishing companies but also like dollar yen company such as Daiso and they sell them at very low cost…
Thanks for speaking out. Chris Zaldains new Googan / Bass Mafia rip off of the mag draft. Mike Iaconelli, not known for swimbaits, shilling the Berkeley Nessie. The Agent E rip off of the dark sleeper. List probably goes on. I pay attention to small channels and company’s on new stuff these days. Willing to pay a bit more for better quality and to support these guys.
that berkeley cull shad is crazy literally a magdraft 2.0, how is megabass not all over that!
Maybe you should be outraged at Chris Zaldain. He literally took the mold of the magdraft and came out with his "own" swimbait from Bass Mafia
I think the cull shad is not a knockoff, it might swim similar, but the body, shape and overall design is pretty different. The only thing they have in common is the hook harness, which, that hook harness has been done on a lot of different lures, both Japanese and American
Patent laws are different in America and protect certain territories. Like for example Zman licensed Evergreen Jack Hammer Chatterbaits and it is patented in the USA so technically companies can not use the same design in the United States. But in Japan the Evergreen Jack Hammer Chatterbait design is copied by all Japanese lure companies because its not patented in japan?
Take a deep breathe.....ok I'm with you 100% . The classic knock-off Rapala/Rebel...the modern day minnow plug........................
People think they're the same but they're not. Smaller companies focus way more on making each product as good as possible. Big companies, however, just pumps out baits good or bad.
I couldn't like this video more. Thanks for calling out the BS
The Grow Design and OSP knock offs really p#$$ed me off. The fact that some pros who I will not name, didn't even give credit really bothered me. Those two companies I've supported for decades and I gotta tell ya, I can live without buying any more of there products. It's just so sad.
Love the way you speak the truth it is sad to never give credit to the original
I feel like fisherman are generous when others are watching or when it looks good to be. Behind closed doors, everyone has their own agenda for themselves
As a fisherman, I don’t buy knock offs. I see rip offs of Ito vision 110s, Berkley is bad, Googan Squad is bad, Bass Mafia is bad too. So, it is really up to the consumer to decide who they are going to support. great video, and I stand with The Hook up Tackle
Kudos to you dude. Went about it the right and respectful way. Way to use your voice dude! Keep it up man, love your work.
Lmao I love you showed the hinkle😂 they just made a KO hinkle shad blank
I saw a clear plastic one on eBay for $300 with what looks like real hinkle fins on it
@localhookerwoodyfishing83 it's like 50 bucks on a website posted on SU the other day.
I was going to comment about the hinkle and throwback knockoffs cause at least the sellers of those don’t try to act like they made something new and innovative. Stealing intellectual property definitely isn’t cool but they proudly advertise those baits as knockoffs so at least they’re willing to admit they ripped off the designer 😂
I'd rather not have all knock offs just because it's that many less people throwing those baits. I'm fortunate & I never see anyone throwing big swimbaits around me. I'm sure there is but I have never seen anyone with big bait. I have people ask me about what I'm fishing for or catching when they see any of my big baits tied on. I've only been fishing big swimbaits about 3 years. Glide baits about year n half. Ton of companies copied the cover scat!!!
Until companies hire attorneys to enforce copyright , it won’t stop. Most of the business is going to go to the cheapest or best made product. I feel these larger companies should be licensing designs from these smaller companies. I try not to buy knockoffs when possible but there are a lot out there.. The only copies I would consider buying is if the company doesn’t have a certain color I want in a soft plastic or I can’t get the product within a reasonable time. Swimbait drops that sell out in seconds with no more for months. I would definitely consider a knockoff because the likelyhood of getting is it anyway is slim. I am buying them to use and not resell. The resellers are also a big issue we have in swimbaits and special megabass colors. I am not rewarding someone to flip a bait.
The JDM lure resellers are definitely contributing to the overall problem.
Yeah I don't get how the resellers aren't talked about as much as the knockoffs
“Who made this fucking this before Andrew Hinkle? What the fuck?” Hahahahahaha I’m dead at that bro
Interesting dispute several years ago here in Australia. A large (for Oz anyway) lure producer accused a small garage producer of copying his lures. Absolutely unjustified in this case. Garage lure maker had some of the big company guys lures. So set fire to them and posted a video to facebook. Others jooined in as well burning their lures!😀 Was some very populat viewing and comments at the time!😀 You guys should try it!
Absolutely agree, I would rather buy from the little guy and get a good bait then a knock off that isnt that great( Berkley has done it again this yr, last yr I feel it was the Gilly)... Would love to see more collabs like the Spro/KGB....like in a back gliding bait..Or Damiki Honey nuggets, i love them and catch a lot of fish on them but now their going gone! The struggle us real..
I agree and the original is almost always better than the KO but all the dudes flipping Flags doesn't help. Same goes for flipping any bait that gets a KO.
Soon as I saw the nessie and the bronco bug, immediately thought of the jdm baits. Shameless knockoffs, honestly. Not only that, but money above everything else drives the sport here in the states. On the flipside of big bait fishing, any of these big companies that started making more finesse size hard baits when bfs took off on the mainstream market. Even then, they pale in comparison to their jdm counterparts. Its just dumb that money is the one thing driving the market here, since most of what comes out here in the states is some rehashed bullshit that was shown last year. The epitome of "Same shit, different pile"
what's your thoughts on the Megabass Magdraft Ayu Twitch? Because it it kinda a copy of the Grow Design Flag
Although I agree 100% with it is wrong that these big brand name companies are copying JDM styles. But I wanted to comment on the part about collaborations. I also think it can be contributed to the JDM bait design makers have too much pride in their art that they do not want to collaborate. As a whole the Japanese culture is a culture that stands on pride to the fullest. And I respect that 100%
So hard to say if some baits are knock offs or just that you can only do so much with bait design.
When the knockoffs are identical in its "utility design" instead of being a "version of", it's incredibly damaging to innovation in the sport not just the industry.
The price difference is the key with these, its the jdm companies fault. Absolutely no reason a soft plastic glide should cost more that 20$
Bass pro is good for knock offs. They had knocked off the donut shad,s-waver etc. Also bass mafia and googan baits knocked of the magdraft.
It's a problem. There is going to be less incentive to innovate if the baitmaker knows their product is going to get Amazon Basic'd if it's good. I like the idea of collaborations over what companies are doing to these poor bastards. And I think bait makers should be a lot more open to doing them because that is the only middle ground. I don't know how patents work but I'm shocked how little is brand specific these days. How many fucking cover scats are there now? It's getting out of control across the board. Swimbaits are just another symptom of a bigger problem with these companies. 100% agree.
6.8 strike king rage swimmer or a big kietech rigged with a weighted treble hook line threw works great also
Speaking on the innovation, it's no coincidence that they're killing it in many many aspects. Not just products (which are amazing: cars electronics chef knives -- u name it) but they go off on everything, skateboarding, snowboarding, clothing, music, baseball and on and on. The densely packed cities breed innovation, how're you going to stand out? NYC and LA are also powerhouses of cultural creation.
Why can’t Japanese brands sponsor American pros? I feel like that would be the best way to stay ahead of the trend of knockoffs. But ultimately they would have to prepare for a larger audience and be able to quadruple their production.
Japanese brands have sponsored American pros, but the Japanese companies that have sponsored the pros can afford/sustain having American pros on the team. Deps, Megabass, Ever Green, Duo Realis etc
The bigger companies in JDM should merge with the smaller ones
shimano- Daiwa- Megabass- Duo Realis merging with smaller brands- Also mid size companies like one that specializes in hard baits merging with a Tackle or Soft bait oriented One-- Imakatsu with Bottom up or Deps with Nishine- Gamakatsu with Jackal--
Good video. Not interested in the Berkeley glide but the cull shad has piqued my interest. Being $10 cheaper than the magdraft is nice but the clip on hook instead of the magnet and the honeycomb design makes it innovative enough I don’t consider it a knock off.
No, the cull shad is definitely not a knock off from the magdraft, completely different lures.
That's really where swim baits has really taken off changing the platform of angling into a micro franchise that propagates that creators proprietary contribution to the game.
Exactly what I’ve been saying they should collab like Spro and KGB but they’re heads are so far up their asses they don’t think like that. “Afraid do google translate” had me dyinggg😂
It was good to see y’all at ICOPY but It’s so disappointing to see the blatant copies of other baits and for one to win “best of show” last year was a joke.
Berkeley really gets their moneys worth when they send Mike Ike to Japan. I guess now Jacob Wheeler is doing it for Rapala. There is no shame.
Not sure you have covered it, but another issue is EVERY company making EVERY product. They are just making fuel for the clearance sections. Does every company (especially rod companies) need a reel? If you aren't going to top the current leaders then why do it? I understand upstarts like KastKing trying to offer value, but I have seen Duckett or Ark make reels that cost more than a Curado (which they are no where near).
“Fuel for the clearance section” 😂😂 haven’t heard that one before. It is crazy how every company is trying to make everything now, I don’t know who buys these new reels either 😂
1000% agree with you. "Inspiration"
this was a great discussion. keep up the good work.
OK so let me start off with i liked the video and im a subscriber. SO as im watching this video in bed my wife goes..... "but all your baits look the same, all the spinnerbaits and poppers and crank baits, so who copied them?" I pull out 3 spinnerbaits, 2 Japanese and 1 US brand, I ask her "thous don't look different to you?" My wife, a lawyer from NYC, never fished a day in her life says "are you F$#king stupid? That's the same Sh&t" Gave me a good laugh....
I got 5 kids, & in todays economy ill have to say im definitely leaning more towards a $10 glide than a $50+ glide if you can evem find them in stock anywhere and $75+ for the ebayers who buy up stock.. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I understand it from both sides .. but hey look at glock there is dozen companies who copy the G19, but in the end there is 1 and only g19... at the end of the day the flagship is still the flagship, we got bigger things to worry about.
It's all about availability, who wants to wait 3+ weeks for an original when many of the competitors are on the shelf?
I totally agree with you with all this crap going on in the fishing industry
I feel like it would be more tolerable if these big companies at least gave the OG some love. Even if they're not collaborating, at least be like "ya it's damn near a copy. It's a great bait and GDW made an amazing product. We want to take inspiration and bring that product to the mass market who can't afford or can't find these baits"
They HAVE to know that claiming its their own innovation will backfire. I can't imagine anyone at these companies, let alone the pros that spout their bullshit, actually believe they're innovating.
It could be that simple really, at least acknowledge what’s actually happening. The blatant dodging and ignoring the elephant in the room is just insensitive
@@crazybassfisher it's complete bullshit and borderline fraud
Swimbait fishing killed the tournament fishing style of fishing for me. And I like to support the smaller companies. They take the time to support all of us via social media and I promote them as well. Besides that they are real people you can easily reach out to ask a question about their product they reach out. Just more of a one on one feeling more personal supporting small garage bait made companies
Money makes some people do crazy stuff. Look at the walleye cheaters from last year, look at Mike Long, etc. Just like your comments about Japan, our fish are getting harder to catch and all the JDM baits I’ve bought from THUT have given me an edge tournament and fun fishing
I agree but let’s be honest not much more you can re “event” in the fishing industry anymore. A lot of these are collaborations but hey if a company makes it cheaper and I can get it easier I’m gonna buy that. Supply and demand
You did a great job, I feel the same way about copy cats, I had to buy my flag 170 off eBay double the money , keep up the great work!!
Everyone agrees the spro collab with KGB was awesome for everyone. I was hoping that would catch on and be less knockoffs in the future
As a garage bait maker myself I've been saying this for years! It's the reason I dislike Johnny Morris. He can take a hot underground bait put one extra rib or bump on the body and sell basically the same thing at a fraction on the price
🔥🔥 I love the rant and it needed to be said you did an incredible job 👏👏👏🤙❤️
Our whole world has gone to shit. Can’t expect the fishing industry to be any different. Greed is the downfall of us all.
I just will never buy Berkeley again. After the Gill Flat and Flag, etc., esp. with the nerve to give these obvious knock offs awards, it is criminal.
Oh boohoo you’re really gonna cause their company to crash oh no what will they ever do without your business😢
@@Samuel-kz3vo it is not what they will do without my money, but what I will do with the money I did not spend on Berkley. I will get it all in quarters so that I can watch your mom blow a dog at the local peep show. She usually charges a dime, but I feel sorry for having d'bag children like you.
The worst part about it is the interview on Wired2fish where the Berkeley designer goes on about how challenging it was to work on, all the different things they had to overcome, how innovative they were and talking as if it's the greatest achievement of his life. It's like dude, you literally took an existing bait, tweaked it the tinniest amount and put it out. That's the insulting part about it all. I could not imagine how embarrassed I would be if I was him. I couldn't sleep at night.