absolutely love your videos... so very informative for a guy who just cuts as a hobby/for land clearing... i would love to learn more about contract cutting/west coast style logging... all i get to do is clear land and occasionally there is timber worth selling to the mill... most of it either gets burned or turned to mulch
I’m gonna have to watch this a couple times, I always appreciate any info related to contract cutting and logging in general. There is so much to know.
In Eastern hardwood, it's an entirely different world, that varies some by region and customer specs. In the premium hardwood areas most of the timber is extracted from the woods tree length, which varies greatly from a few feet in some cases to over a hundred feet in excellent stands. Most operators use some type of bucksaw but some operators do still prefer hand bucking and the veneer companies prefer hand bucking. Log length for saw logs run 8-16 ft, 3-4 inches trim is the standard but many mills specify 6", especially on butt logs. Railroad ties are a big market in hardwood and a finished tie measures 8'6", so tie logs cut specifically for that purpose have to be at least 8"8"and typically cut 9 and most mill only pay scale for 8, but at a higher price is their theory of fair compensation. We are allowed to cut 6 foot walnut and white oak for stave bolts in some areas and again for some customers. Hardwood veneer cover about every hardwood species on the planet. The same mills in the hardwood region of the Eastern US also buy and slice logs from everywhere else, including fir, cedar and hemlock from the PNW. Hardwood veneer is different from construction veneer in many ways. It's either about figure, or complete lack of figure, e.g., perfect straight grain lines. In white and red oak and walnut, 11,12,13 foot is the premium on clear, larger diameter logs. Those are architectural lengths for high ceilings in high end homes and commercial applications. 9,10 foot average to good quality and down to 13" diameter is a panel, literally for making paneling and doors. 8 foot logs are a furniture grade, which they always prefer we make only when big defects limit it from being longer. It is possible for a tree to make multiple veneer logs. Longest I've shipped in one piece, which is the way many veneer buyers prefer, was 44 feet. We run 42 foot trailers and without permits, we can only run 4 feet past the bumper. Hope everyone enjoys the exploration of the different methods across our industry.
Couple people I have a special respect for. Cutters and millwrights. ( The whole family is in the trade)A guy could learn allot spending some time shadowing you.
Excellent explanation. Here in eastern Oregon I deal with multiple species, going to multiple mills on the regular. Pine to one mill, white fir to another, red fir and tamarack to another, oversized to another. All with different lengths. All in the same unit. It’s all pretty simple once a guy gets the hang of it.
@@timberfallingcouple Hi Sadie it shows look at accurate his cutting is, I mean the hinge is the same thickness always even and bang on, your content is truly priceless!
Thanks fir explaining so those not familiar with logging can understand what goes on behind why and where a log is cut. And yes sometimes safety trumps preferred lengths and you make a cut where you can. I haven't cut for 40 years so sone of our buck specs were different. We dealt with a lot of "export" logs so our lengths were a little different to account for the metric system. 33' with 10 inch trim was a preferred length back when I cut for export. The local mills liked 32 and 40's same as yours.
Thanks for thorough explanation of bucking lengths. I would like to see a video of you showing these different criteria while cutting up the logs. I realize that’s a lot to ask so this is just a suggestion.
Uncle Phil it's way different here in the northeast pine is 16', 12', 14' hardwood saw logs 8',10' ,12' hemlock 16',12' sawlog all have 6" trim pulpwood 20'
I’d think that a paper company would come into play “somewhere” along the way. That’s coming from someone in the land of ittybitty pines for the paper mills.
Paper “pulp” mills take the wood that is non merch wood, the tops, and “cull logs” I.e. crooked, defected, rotten or too small to mill. Unless the pulp prices are pretty high or there is a pulp mill close. “Cull” wood gets piled at the landing and burned. Log lengths for pulp mills don’t matter because it all gets chipped before going into the mill.
Yeah, the pulp prices went pretty well to crap here. We used to send a lot of our hardwoods for pulp back wen I was younger, but now the price dropped out and it barely [doesnt] pay for the trucking cost. Cheaper to pile it and burn it
The mill and logger dictate the buck specs based off of the ground and the logging operation. So 24" buck means buck down to 24" diameter or smaller. So if it's under 24 at your first log you're done after that one, but if it's 25" you buck another one even if it brings you down to 13"
Diameter determines size and number of cuts from the long. In construction lumber, a 2x12 and 6x6, or some other large dimension timber is the premium priced cut, so a larger log means potential for more premium priced boards. A 24" log, that's inside the bark at the small end, typically squares up between 18-20 inches. Depending on the mill, they will "open up" on 2x8's, then 2x10's, then they will have a 12" by 14-16 cant that will then be cut into 7-8, 2x12's. Hardwood logs are totally different. It's about clear surfaces and making certain grades. Each grade has allowances for number of defects based on the number of clear cuttings with rules on minimum width and length. So for example, walnut is allowed a 3" wide by 6 foot cutting for a select grade. Poplar usually isn't allowed a select grade, so the minimum size board is 5" by 7'. A 6 foot board is allowed, but it drops by one grade. All logs have defects going towards the heart, so the logs are constantly flipped to saw the widest, clearest faces the most. Once the grade is sawn out of the log (typically #2 common and better) the "can't" is either a timber, a railroad tie, or pallet can't(s) which are resawn into deck boards for pallets, all depending on the log, the length, the species and the market. Hardwood lumber is often not sawn for specific size. As stated before, it's about grade and surface measure. We've shipped many loads of poplar and red oak especially that had boards 30" wide. We used to saw 4" think (16/4") red oak and poplar for a company that made Venetian blinds. They limited us to 24" wide because of the weight of the boards and much of that was 16 foot long!!.
most states have an associated loggers group, ACL, CLA, AOL, etc. Get on the internet for the state that you want and search associated loggers. There should be a numerical database, start making phone calls. The world is short handed right now.
Hardwood veneer logs, unless it is rotary, are "flitched" before going into the vat. Depending on the log, a flitch is either a quarter or a half. Typically the log is flitched, the glitches banded together, put in the vat for many hours or even a day or more, pulled out, unbanded, all of the flitches sliced and run threw the drier and the veneer stacked in order on the same skid on conjoined skids. I always said everyone should see a sawmill and a veneer mill and society as a whole would have a higher respect for what we do.
absolutely love your videos... so very informative for a guy who just cuts as a hobby/for land clearing... i would love to learn more about contract cutting/west coast style logging... all i get to do is clear land and occasionally there is timber worth selling to the mill... most of it either gets burned or turned to mulch
I’m gonna have to watch this a couple times, I always appreciate any info related to contract cutting and logging in general. There is so much to know.
Right on man, appreciate you tuning in!
Thanks for the great explanation Phil!
In Eastern hardwood, it's an entirely different world, that varies some by region and customer specs. In the premium hardwood areas most of the timber is extracted from the woods tree length, which varies greatly from a few feet in some cases to over a hundred feet in excellent stands. Most operators use some type of bucksaw but some operators do still prefer hand bucking and the veneer companies prefer hand bucking. Log length for saw logs run 8-16 ft, 3-4 inches trim is the standard but many mills specify 6", especially on butt logs. Railroad ties are a big market in hardwood and a finished tie measures 8'6", so tie logs cut specifically for that purpose have to be at least 8"8"and typically cut 9 and most mill only pay scale for 8, but at a higher price is their theory of fair compensation. We are allowed to cut 6 foot walnut and white oak for stave bolts in some areas and again for some customers. Hardwood veneer cover about every hardwood species on the planet. The same mills in the hardwood region of the Eastern US also buy and slice logs from everywhere else, including fir, cedar and hemlock from the PNW. Hardwood veneer is different from construction veneer in many ways. It's either about figure, or complete lack of figure, e.g., perfect straight grain lines. In white and red oak and walnut, 11,12,13 foot is the premium on clear, larger diameter logs. Those are architectural lengths for high ceilings in high end homes and commercial applications. 9,10 foot average to good quality and down to 13" diameter is a panel, literally for making paneling and doors. 8 foot logs are a furniture grade, which they always prefer we make only when big defects limit it from being longer. It is possible for a tree to make multiple veneer logs. Longest I've shipped in one piece, which is the way many veneer buyers prefer, was 44 feet. We run 42 foot trailers and without permits, we can only run 4 feet past the bumper.
Hope everyone enjoys the exploration of the different methods across our industry.
Couple people I have a special respect for. Cutters and millwrights. ( The whole family is in the trade)A guy could learn allot spending some time shadowing you.
Excellent explanation. Here in eastern Oregon I deal with multiple species, going to multiple mills on the regular. Pine to one mill, white fir to another, red fir and tamarack to another, oversized to another. All with different lengths. All in the same unit. It’s all pretty simple once a guy gets the hang of it.
Informative for sure Phil, the company who has hired you surely knew what they were doing Phil, you definitely know your business and very good at it.
Thanks for the compliments! He's a very knowledgeable man, genuinely cares about this job, the outcome and the industry as a whole.
@@timberfallingcouple Hi Sadie it shows look at accurate his cutting is, I mean the hinge is the same thickness always even and bang on, your content is truly priceless!
@@JohnnyIDive37 always appreciate your feedback and kind words man!! Thank you!
Thanks fir explaining so those not familiar with logging can understand what goes on behind why and where a log is cut. And yes sometimes safety trumps preferred lengths and you make a cut where you can.
I haven't cut for 40 years so sone of our buck specs were different. We dealt with a lot of "export" logs so our lengths were a little different to account for the metric system. 33' with 10 inch trim was a preferred length back when I cut for export. The local mills liked 32 and 40's same as yours.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing such obscure knowledge.
Thanks for tuning in!
Awesome Phil! Good to hear some of the background info.
Thanks for tuning in!
Thanks for thorough explanation of bucking lengths. I would like to see a video of you showing these different criteria while cutting up the logs. I realize that’s a lot to ask so this is just a suggestion.
Uncle Phil it's way different here in the northeast pine is 16', 12', 14' hardwood saw logs 8',10' ,12' hemlock 16',12' sawlog all have 6" trim pulpwood 20'
What is the trim on a log?
I’d think that a paper company would come into play “somewhere” along the way. That’s coming from someone in the land of ittybitty pines for the paper mills.
Minnesota, represent!
Paper “pulp” mills take the wood that is non merch wood, the tops, and “cull logs” I.e. crooked, defected, rotten or too small to mill. Unless the pulp prices are pretty high or there is a pulp mill close. “Cull” wood gets piled at the landing and burned. Log lengths for pulp mills don’t matter because it all gets chipped before going into the mill.
Yeah, the pulp prices went pretty well to crap here. We used to send a lot of our hardwoods for pulp back wen I was younger, but now the price dropped out and it barely [doesnt] pay for the trucking cost. Cheaper to pile it and burn it
What do you mean by 24” buck, how does tree size dictate buck? Thanks
The mill and logger dictate the buck specs based off of the ground and the logging operation. So 24" buck means buck down to 24" diameter or smaller. So if it's under 24 at your first log you're done after that one, but if it's 25" you buck another one even if it brings you down to 13"
Thank you for taking time to type that and explain it to me.
Diameter determines size and number of cuts from the long. In construction lumber, a 2x12 and 6x6, or some other large dimension timber is the premium priced cut, so a larger log means potential for more premium priced boards. A 24" log, that's inside the bark at the small end, typically squares up between 18-20 inches. Depending on the mill, they will "open up" on 2x8's, then 2x10's, then they will have a 12" by 14-16 cant that will then be cut into 7-8, 2x12's.
Hardwood logs are totally different. It's about clear surfaces and making certain grades. Each grade has allowances for number of defects based on the number of clear cuttings with rules on minimum width and length. So for example, walnut is allowed a 3" wide by 6 foot cutting for a select grade. Poplar usually isn't allowed a select grade, so the minimum size board is 5" by 7'. A 6 foot board is allowed, but it drops by one grade. All logs have defects going towards the heart, so the logs are constantly flipped to saw the widest, clearest faces the most. Once the grade is sawn out of the log (typically #2 common and better) the "can't" is either a timber, a railroad tie, or pallet can't(s) which are resawn into deck boards for pallets, all depending on the log, the length, the species and the market.
Hardwood lumber is often not sawn for specific size. As stated before, it's about grade and surface measure. We've shipped many loads of poplar and red oak especially that had boards 30" wide. We used to saw 4" think (16/4") red oak and poplar for a company that made Venetian blinds. They limited us to 24" wide because of the weight of the boards and much of that was 16 foot long!!.
Hey yo I’m a local 433 ironworker I want to get the hell out of the city and cut timber where do I start !?
most states have an associated loggers group, ACL, CLA, AOL, etc. Get on the internet for the state that you want and search associated loggers. There should be a numerical database, start making phone calls. The world is short handed right now.
Cool what would be your favorite or dream state to log in for the rest of your life ? Besides your home state wherever that may be ?
Because were not lazy processer operators lmfao
They get bucked before going into steam vats
I appreciate that. Thank you
Hardwood veneer logs, unless it is rotary, are "flitched" before going into the vat. Depending on the log, a flitch is either a quarter or a half. Typically the log is flitched, the glitches banded together, put in the vat for many hours or even a day or more, pulled out, unbanded, all of the flitches sliced and run threw the drier and the veneer stacked in order on the same skid on conjoined skids.
I always said everyone should see a sawmill and a veneer mill and society as a whole would have a higher respect for what we do.
It's raining pretty good there, eh Uncle Phil😎