Bro when you think about it, people have literally lived and died thinking the siege ended the way the myths and legends said it did. Only now are we hearing otherwise. 40k is that old and backed up with unwritten, past lore lol. That's insane
Jokes aside, that's legit a potentially good idea if we subscribe to the idea that all psychically active species in the galaxy either die out or implode creating a chaos god. Big E could be basically creating a human pantheon to divide mankind's psychic power, kinda of like the Eldar pantheon before slaanesh.
I think the whole Horus Heresy was just a massive gambit by the Chaos Gods. Not to kill the Emperor, but to tempt him into embracing Chaos and becoming the Dark King.
Malice is the Dark King. That hateful fragment of the Emperor that he also ejected from himself, just as he ejected the Star Child. The Starchild is the light, Malice is the dark. Faux theory, but I like it.
I love how The Dark King is described, an immense black sphere surrounded by seven luminous white spear-bearing figures. Very much the vibe of a "Chaos God of order".
*Warp god of Order There are many warp gods in Immaterium and chaos gods are just subsets of Warp gods, there's even hints of both Magnus and Leman Russ' true form is akin to powerful Titans from old human legends but actually stronger than Imperium' titan mechs (since Primarchs' souls have ties to destiny and can bend the ties of fate surrounding them, at least to varying extent, only Horus which got permanently deleted and Fulgrim clone in Trazyn's museum technically have the original lesser warp god soul of Fulgrim prior to being ejected by daemonic soups that take over control his bodily remains which acts as Slaanesh's puppet/daemon Primarch)
The inquisitor books did not introduce the concept of Starchild. It was the Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned from 1989. It also introduce Horus killing Sangiunus, the Emperor being taken to safety by Dorn. As well as Daemon Primarchs such as Mortarion, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar and Perturabo. Yeah, that book is super important to what 40k would become and its sadly forgotten.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 didnt GW copyright the astartes animated short and then hire the guy behind it? they also were likely going to go after tts next, they definitely took that idea and i am HERE FOR IT
The idea of the dark king becoming a 5th chaos god could play neatly with vashtor trying to become a 5th chaos god. This idea of multiple beings either attempting to become or being forced into the spot of the 5th god would be interesting. Maybe even bring back some malal/malice in there too since old stuff is coming back into canon.
@maltheri9833 I just thought it would be neat so see some old stuff get resurfaced I got no real liking of it tbh. The paint schemes for the sons of malice is cool tho.
@@t_hetty1758 4 Chaos gods + ascended Vashtorr + barely remembered Malice + creeping Dark King + Enthroned Emperor of Mankind 8 pointed Star of Chaos completed, the 8 pointed Star of Chaos might even changes its alignment, powers and affinities as the emergence of new chaos gods happens to interrupt The Great Game and the boiling of Immaterium
@@ohamatchhams wow I didn’t even think of that. If there is a storyline leading to an “8 pointed star of chaos” like the actual symbol that would be pretty cool.
@@ohamatchhams I've been thinking the same for a while. It seems that is the metanarrative on the chaos side of the war. There are now at least three nascent beings that seem to be gunning for Godhood; Vashtorr, Be'lakor and The Dark King. If they can recover the rights to Malal, that would make a good fourth contender. It is the sort of storyline that GW can spread out over the next 50 years if they wanted. Another contender I could see coming along is Lorgar. He is on the move again, and I suspect if he can overcome Corvus, he will be shooting to no-longer worship the Gods, but to become one.
My theory after EATD II is this: Starchild is out there, but the husk of the emperor is therefore, as you said, a cold, unfeeling machine - and it was his humanity that lead him to follow Ollanius and reject the powers of the Dark King in the first place. So the rest of the emperors soul still on terra would be much more open to accepting this power, should he get the chance. And he might get that chance if his physical body dies and this part of his soul would be ejected into the warp. The custodes realize this, which is why they are so worried about the failing of the golden throne that they were open to deal with Commoragh to fix it and keep the body of the emperor alive. As long as the starchild is not reunited or sufficiently empowered, the Golden Throne is not just a machine for the Emperor - it is a prison for the Dark King. And I have to say - Humanity having to keep their own God locked up to prevent him from destroying it would be a very Grimdark/40k thing indeed!
After refusing to become The Dark King, The Emperor told Ol He'd made a new plan. Here's my theory: The Emperor knows He's going to be mortally wounded in the battle with Horus. After all, he's basically just given up the power to win. What he wants, is for Ol to become Malcador's effective replacement, to steer The Imperium and act as His voice while the dying Emps is bound to The Throne. The tragedy of course, is that we know Ol will die, The Imperium will lose its immortal leadership and ties to the past, and be plunged into ten-thousand years of darkness.
Why does this seem obvious to even a lowly novice lore consumer like myself, or maybe I'm not that much of a novice anymore? I'm not even sure what the normal gamer level is because I don't really play them. If I did I would play battlefront Gothic with the skalgrim mod probably but I don't have a good computer for it.
So in summary: The Chaos gods tried to pull a Godhand from Berserk Ollanius Pius is still the GOAT Star Child is a thing (I’m just waiting for it to go the route of TTS) The Dark King might one day come again
Guilliman's musings about the Emperor in Dark Imperium are pretty interesting. By Guilliman's perspective the Emperor has become utterly inhuman and a being beyond understanding.
Hold up. That description of the dark king as a smooth black orb sounds an awful lot like the Tyrant Star. I’d be down for that to be a thing. Like it’s slowly regaining power.
I just hope that the Dark King, Emperor becoming god fully and the Star Child isn't/won't be just a way for GW to create the "Age of Emperor" in case of 40k going down in sales, but would be an actual plot point to make the plot more interesting of 40k without the full collapse of everything.
@maltheri9833 well, for Eldars you could make that the chaos that ensued made it possible for Isha to escape and now they have support of their god, or you could make something different with them. For Tau it would be very easy to just say that now they expanded more, but now they start to face bigger resistance from the population (after all the Emperor is now alive) so they would be faced with several options one of them being ethnic cleansing. Orks are just orks, maybe Ghazkull becomes a krork. Same for Tyranids, or you could make them loose control over large amounts of their forces after the "death" of Emperor and the blowout that happened after the destruction of Terra and the Astronomicon meaning that there are entire systems full of mindless swarms, maybe make some into their own hives either starting their own hive fleets that now attack independently of the Hive mind or make them stay where they are so that their plot point would be being destroyed by other factions that want to take that spot. You could save Admech by either them making rocket engines and move Mars as far away from Terra as possible or Void Dragon is awaken and saves them from doom, so Admech start worship him and fully turn into a technology cult possibly even turning into kinda-Necrons but without the living metal and it looks more like Dark Mechanicum. CSM gets out of the Eye of Terror and warbands create their small empires in Imperium Nihilus and the remaining parts of Imperium Sanctus that aren't Ultramar or other regions protected by IG and/or SM. Chaos Daemons are everywhere and fight between each other in real space. Kinda took inspiration from Pancreas's vid of bringing down the Imperium, but instead of making it stupid and too much like Fantasy Battles I instead opted for something that would be less stupid for the setting of 40k. After all Imperium just collapsing wouldn't be much except of non-imperial factions getting more powers against just Humanity, but this way other factions could gain relevance other ways that aren't just punching the remnants of humans but also somehow make them not just destroy all those remnants. Plus Imperium is too big to fall down by itself and imo only the destruction of Astronomicon and a large portion of Imperium Sanctus could realistically do it. However most importantly, this way Humanity wouldn't just die from being surrounded by enemies, but now have Emperor as an actual god that could help them by sending his own daemons to protect human worlds, and maybe eventually start a new Crusade Idk. Either way there are many ways to make the "Age of Emperor", or maybe it would be interesting to have some of it without 40k becoming 2nd AoS, like Emperor doesn't "dies" thus not fully becoming a god, but being just close enough to start making an impact. Though yes even with some new stuff for other factions they still would feel kinda left out by the amount of stuff Imperials would get so maybe it's not that good of an idea anyway
As the universe was not destroyed it is safe to assume that the Emperor, though really strong that he could rival the chaos gods has not ascended yet, since it's been known that the universe itself will get destroyed if the Big E ascends.
I could see a warhammer 50k on the horizon, mainly to allow for more story space and more AOS style gameplay, I think unlikely AOS it would be the end of 40k's lore and you'd get black library books for it just like heresy
@@ArchenwWas 50k the one where the Emperor becomes the "Star Father" which is essentially the Star Child but as a grotesque Chaos God, that fought ALL 4 OF THE CHAOS GODS at once? There was also the release of the Void Dragon, Ahriman’s empire is growing, Abaddon and Huron’s inevitable war, the Deceiver releasing an ancient superweapon that uncreates reality and the fact that the Deep Warp itself is alive and intends to destroy all of creation too. Got to say, it was actually a pretty fun fanfic for 40K.
With the whole Star Child/God of Order theory it really does seem like we are inevitably barrelling towards an AoS style complete change to the setting, if the Emperor ascends and becomes the God of Order (like they did to Sigmar, basically making him the default protagonist of AoS) with all currently alive Primarchs returned its entirely possible we see the dead ones come back too since their souls must still be lingering in the Warp somewhere since ya know, when that kinda Warp fuckery is involved no one is ever truly dead, so as much as it would absolutely suck and retcon the shit out of core parts of the setting itself such as Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus, Ferrus Manus' death at the hands of Fulgrim on Istvaan V being a core part of Fulgrim's tragic fall to Chaos they could pull some bs like "with the Emperor's ascension and the birth of a new God of Order, all those loyal to him were restored in a psychic emanation as powerful as the very formation of the galaxy itself" kinda retcon and that sheer amount of unleashed psychic energy brings the Emperor's realm and the dead loyalist Primarchs into being and that's how we'll see essentially the end of 40k as we know it when they inevitably AoS hard reset/End Times the setting, plus they're not just gonna stop once all the currently alive Primarchs are back in the setting on both the loyalist and traitor side, like they're not just gonna stop writing once we reach that point and be like "that's it, this is 40k forever now, no new stories ever again" kinda thing, that would be just stupid, they've kinda forced themselves to pull an End Times scenario and hard reset the entire setting
With Girly Roboman around there might be changes in how the setting functions vut i doubt they'd pull an AOS, even just the name 40k carries way too much money
No. All this stuff is to keep you buying. They'll never resolve it unless doing so would make more money. This setting stuff is just to facilitate sales.
I think I understand how the dark King transformation works as we know pskers draw their power from the warp but they can't draw too much power or they will lose control or die but the emperor does not have to worry about this therefore he can draw upon as much warp power as he wants until he can eventually become the dark king.
Yes and no, The Emps does not have a limit to the energy his siphons, but if he gets too much he will ascend to godhood which he doesn't want to cause if he did the galaxy will get utterly destroyed
You know this makes me think an eldar fall novel/s would be cool, like it turns out there was a war near the end (between a 3rd wave of 'we went to far' eldar vs the pleasurecults) but the anti-slaanesh fsction fails.
You have something there. I have been around 40k since the middle too late 80s. I remember the books you speak of about Draco. In the current lore custodians who in the throne room their armor turns black. Also the emperor looks differently to different people.
I was thinking the exact same thing about the Star Child and how it has changed the Emperor since the Heresy. I like to imagine the whole Pious intervention thing aboard Horus' ship as testament that even though he balled up his empathy, etc. and threw it away in desperation to defeat the Arch Traitor, that the Emperor was so compassionate even despite that. Which caused his righteous fury to relent, right up until Horus proved his damnation in front of the Emperor's very eyes.
Vol 2 was great I was angry there was a full third volume. Horus vs sanguineous was amazing. In the first book I called the fact that the emp would be the dark king not horus, I was pleasantly surprised with him, relinquishing the power, as I thought it was actually a really well delivered character beat after he was challenged by ollonius.
Here's a suggestion Chrono : when the HH concludes 18 years of publication, what's going to happen next? as in are there going to be a continuation of sorts (imagine the great scouring being turned into a novel series as a HH sequel) or more books that take place in 30k?
I would love to see a series based on the war in heaven. The idea of a war 60 million years ago with perhaps an insight into the old ones and stuff like ctan and early chaos. Also birth of eldar and krorks.
@@t_hetty1758 very tough nut to crack this with the factions being composed of xenos, and with technology that's so advanced. It can work if done correctly. That's my take.
4:55 wait a minute, in 40k isn't there a mysterious dark star that sometimes just appears above planets spreading madness and destruction under its balefull light? Is that the dark king then?
Perhaps Vashtor or Bel'akor will use Abbadon to become the Dark King. Magnus or Lorgar could also have been spending the last 10k years trying to figure out how to become the Dark King too.
I’m not that knowledgeable on 40K lore, I only play the video games and watch lore vids. But I gotta say I love this idea. That as the Horus Heresy was underway and Horus and his father faced off, The Emperor took in more power of the Warp to get stronger, obsessed with the need to defeat Horus, but as he does time gets all weird and he gets encased in a dark cacoon like thing, slowly he could become the Dark King, maybe the realm and single demonic the Dark Skimg already exist because either he’ll eventually come to exist, or it always remains enough of a possibility. Either way it’s an ancient friend of the Emperor who eventually manages to snap him out of this mind set somehow, I like to think this is the Emperor keeping what remains of his Humanity rather then truly becoming a god and relinquishing the power. The Emperor can be a fucked up psychotic person , who knows. But he does care greatly for Humanity. I’d love it if he ever returned to “normal”, maybe have him always be on the verge of becoming the Dark King, like an ever present dark side. Imagine if the Dark King could somehow manifest as a trusty evil copy if the Emperor, but blackened and truly evil.
plot twist, john grammaticus gets to the newborn star child first and we get a trilogy about them "odd coupling" it around the universe......truly.....the darkest of timelines...
I love Malcador voice here xD Canon or not, the current version really feels lackluster, I recommend you guys checking out 50k The Shape of the Nightmare to Come fanfic / theoretical way the setting would progress after another 10k years made like 12 years ago. Apotheosis of the Emperor presented there is way more fascinating and way more fitting the vibes of grimdark 40k than all this Dark King crap. Holy hell, and treating Horus as potential Dark King is abyssmal. Horus is just a dude and a tool, while each of chaos gods represents the primal truth of the universe, some primal rules that govern the life itself. Some warmongering guy is not befitting such a grand role, because from philosophical point of view, he represents nothing, while true 4 chaos gods represent something far greater than mere mortal life, mere motivations and personality. But well, recent GW book writing quality is not shining. Ynnari plotline was an interesting concept, but pulled off in such a lackluster way, it's basically at the dead end. While it could lead to something deep and meaningful, if the law and order in form of the emperor and Ynnead as the god of death would represent the state, most people in the galaxy live in currently, making an impact on the warp itself, creating a warp consciousness of cumulated cold, relentless order / the basically death cult the Imperium is as a whole. Tyranny, law and order makes you dead inside, while you're still alive, while whatever you do, it's always centered around physical death. Thousand planets forcing people to die in war, in industry, in poverty, and often due to meaningless formalities, people are obsessed about. If such unnatural state, billions of people suffering is not something to stir and influence the warp, I do not know what is. Such environment is unfit for life, unfit for mortals, and is something far greater, like other chaos gods, it represents something extreme enough to birth demons.
yeah I get you - not a big fan of the "amputating the part of Big E soul" I don't remember him being compassionate and caring man, don't know about 50k, but I wished for Sanguinus killing Horus and then fighting Big E in black rage, Majorkill made a video on that
@@whitebenjamin75 My copy just came in, so I’m going to start it tonight, I seriously can’t believe so many TH-camrs have finished it already, assuming they have full-time jobs and sleep 8 hours, because the thing is the size of a baneblade
Imagine if the star child and the dark king both return as seperate entitys and the imperium is split into 2 groups. Some space marine chapters can follow the dark king and some chapters can follow the star child. Maybe the cadians and krieg both take different sides. Basically splitting all imperium players down the middle like a 2nd heresy. Krieg fans might follow the dark king (as an example) and then they would be in lore arguments with cadian fans. Black templar players may debate with ultramarine players about who the real emperor is. Basically the entire imperium is ripped in half as well as the imperium players.
I don't really have any theories on this myself, but I wanted to say this is some of my favorite of all the content you do! Please keep it up! I feel like I could literally listen to you talk about emperor theories, the ascension, and anti-warp for days.
I don't remember this era, might want to purge any record of this heretical writing and absolutely horrible understanding of 40k or the imperium(Or basic common sense)
@@tarektechmarine8209 >Warhammer 40K and/or Imperium >Imperium fanboyism brainlet with butchered latin, illiteracy in religion like swapping Heresy with Apostasy, etc in its fandom being not obnoxious >Having consistent lore revision and not lacking golden rule/design document/bible >basic common sense Pick one
I feel like Warhammer is finally getting out of the it’s stagnation faze that it been stuck in for so long. Probably because gw realizes all the money that comes with it.
That’s true but tbh I do have some issues regarding that because now so many books are either just serious as a heart attack or can’t risk straying from the current direction of the narrative
I both get it and don’t as two sons were wiped out before and there was even a Vote on if Lorgar should be wiped out or not and he sees Sangius dead on the ground too but I guess he spent the most time with Horus would effect him because what 50-75 or 100 years with him the most out of everyone
It's often those who yearn for ascension out of sheer ego and unhinged avarice that fail to grasp the what being a god actually entails. However, some men who are very long lived and powerful enough to be a flick of a dick away from godhood such as the emperor fear the possibility that becoming a god could be a fate FAR WORSE than any hell conjured in the collective imagination of mankind.
I think what you mentioned about Ollanius Pius' intervention is not going to be in Vol.3- it *already occured* here at the end of Vol.2. His conversation with Emps IS that intervention that steels him for the fight. The legends got the timing all mixed up
The Emperor separating his soul of a part of him with so compassion and love to fight Horus and he can coalesce into a body or soul of the star child theory maybe the emperor knew what this would mean in the future .
Abaddon proclaimed in Arks of Omen that he foresees the death of pretty much the galaxy, and that he needs his key to obtain the means to save at least something. Perhaps we're going to need the maximum evil Lord Abaddon, Warmaster of Chaos to save humanity in a heroic duel against the Emperor!
I do recommend the Dark Imperium books, they slap big time. The second book is bit tedious to read but the structure and the story are very sound. But in the 3rd book it all pays off big time. About the starchild, I was already assuming to be a facet of sorts of the Emperor allowing and blessing the "burst" of the Saints. Btw in dark imperium we get to know one of the new saints. Again, I can't recommend it enough.
I wonder if Abadon eventually might become a less metaphysical Dark King, literally founding an empire of darkness within the Warp and Imperium Nihilus? It seems like each of the Chaos gods are carving out small fiefs right now via the Demon primarchs; Magnus has captured a whole cluster and altered the warp currents to prevent travel to and from it, Mortarion and the Deathguard have conquered a small region but mortarion decided to try and 1v1 Guilliman instead of helping with that and pissed off nurgle for his trouble, and with the breaking of the Coral Engine Angron has cursed an entire subsector in imperium Nihilus with Khornate madness which effectively seeds control of that area to Khorne. We also know that Purturabo (Perhaps aligned with Vashtor, perhaps not), Fulgrim and Lorgar are on the move but haven't made their presence especially felt yet, and they're likely to follow suite and carve out their own small realspace fieifdoms from whence they can spread chaos and fight the imperium. If this is the case, it'll make a lot of sense for Abadon to do something similar, to take and hold ground to form a logistical base to slowly take the imperium apart piece by bloody piece, and as warmaster of chaos he'll probably take the largest swathe of territory. There is also still the matter of Huron Blackheart and the red corsairs who already effectively have a small fief within the Maelstrom and, in case we forget, still have one of the Blackstone fortresses in there coutesy of Abadon so should not be taken lightly either, even if they are nominally a smaller threat than the Black legion.
Emps becomes the Trinity. Dark Father. Suffering Mother. Pure Child. Ironic. The one who didn't want his children to believe in God, is the one most suitable to become one. Only one who rejects Godhood is worthy of achieving it. Hail the God-Emperor.
A man who is the closest to a god the species has ever produced, and is being made a god by the people around him, yet denies his godhood. The imperial truth was a stop gap to buy him a few more centuries of not being worshipped so he could avoid being made his own avatar. The more he concentrates his influence the further and further away he's driven from his humanity and this is largely out of his hands by the time his name is known on all those worlds. But he stopped the process by anchoring it to one physical location - earth. God is supposedly everywhere, this god is local to the Milky way galaxy, specifically in a chair. I think that's more interesting. A man scrabbling for a purchase in the physical world despite everything and everyone literally forcing godhood onto him. Perhaps that bridging of a gap between the physical and the divine is the point - the denial of both the mundane and the supernatural as ruler but a unsteady synthesis of both. The throne is breaking down, and God's don't explode.
The Star Child lets the Black Library authors subvert hope. A revitalized/reborn Emperor is the sort of thing that gives folks a hope that the Imperium’s agonizingly slow fall from the heights of the Great Crusade can be arrested (& hopefully reversed). Dangling that cookie in from of the reader, & the snatching it back will be peak Grimdark.
Whenever people read that bit of how the dark king card gets changed for the despoiler I can’t but think that they are misreading the situation. Like the way I saw it it made more sense that the cards are showing the 40k future, and not Abbadon as the next dark king. Kinda odd to say in a star child video but yeh
Firstly - the references to the "Child star" fit the old lore too perfectly for it to just be a reference. It's absolutely a plot point they're going to follow up on. Lion: Son of the Forest uses an awful lot of Arthurian symbolism, including presenting the Emperor as the Fisher King. The Fisher King needed the Holy Grail to be healed, so that suggests that there will be some kind of quest plotline to find the "Holy Grail" - probably the Starchild. Secondly, however - actually finding the Starchild and reunifying the Emperor's soul is far too Noblebright for a 40k plotline. I propose that by the time the Starchild shows up, both it and the man on the Golden Throne have changed too much, and they can't be reunified. He on Earth becomes the Dark King and a new antagonist for the setting; the Starchild becomes the new Emperor, with only fuzzy access to the old Emperor's power and memories, and The Emperor in the warp - the focus of the Imperial Cult's worship - becomes a new, less powerful god.
I'd say a mix of 40k being made for the longest time as a setting more than a story, expansive but not that continuous. Along with that, their experience with warhammer fantasy: where they did build and change some, but would eventually try to end it and fumbled pretty much every aspect of it, thus may make them nervous to change too much.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary because they're uncreative. Think just for a second about how many story lines can come from a world like necromunda alone. They very rarely explore these, skipping thousands of years of what would be turmoil, rebellion, discoveries and political movements. But no, instead we get that Cawl alone equipped and made an entire 8-9 legion of better super soldiers and nobody knew about it, as if the inquisition wouldn't know and have it under their authority instead of a primarch of which 9 turned traitor already.
if they re going to bring the star child back it will be the part of its soul in the warp . and the dark king i think was suposed to be one of few character i think Lutin talked about it in the past and was saying Horus the Emperor and few others who could have been the dark king and those chaos of order and anti warp shhh are not going to happen there re some specific words they use when his close to became a god that like a tittle/explanation of what kind of god he will be
yeah, definitely Malcador would say those words - a man who kickstarted Inquisition, was cold and ruthless agent controlling things from the shadow, would told about his friend whom he known since 7000 years, who was just as cold, methodical prick as him, already killing two primarchs (who cares which hands got bloodied personally to do so, he is responsible still for that) - that he needed to drop empathy and was too caring for his sons (after how he treated Mortarion, Perturabo and Lorgar, and how Sanguinus was shitting his pants for his legion mutations not to become widely known in fear of the Big E, even with Jaghatai treating him with scepticism) Legit!
I'm super with you. It's baffling. It would have been SO much worse not to kill Horus. Worse for all those loyal to him and those he apparently loves so much like the loyal Primarchs.
@@dashvash5440 Honestly man, regardless of what is written in the book, my headcanon will always be this theory, where Horus had been killed by Sanguinus, who later succumbed to black rage and fought with Emperor, mortally wounding him. Then the legend about evil Horus and good Sanguinus has been propagated by the Imperium, whom faith defiles both truth and what Big E standed for. It's grimdark, it's twisted and it IMO filles the plothole about whole hesitation thing. If not emotionally, Emperor would not want to get rid of such an asset in his Imperium, Sanguinus was, thus hesitating to kill him is not a farfetched scenario.
I have a theory of my own that The Silent King is going to encase the Emperors form in a necrodermis body (that is also made of blackstone) and resurrect him in an indestructible physical form. The Necrons have the ability to contain and control godly and warp energies for various purposes and maybe there is a mutually beneficial agreement here. The guy did travel the universe for 60 million years so he likely encountered many many galaxies worth of information and technology. And no he didn't have the stasis fields on the whole time because they didn't need them anymore. They might have used them in the spaces between galaxies for boredoms sake but I think he was awake the entire time otherwise. Even if all he did was a 60 million light year circle he still had access to possibly dozens of galaxies. But we all know they have the "inertialess drive" which means he could have gone much much further, and some people say that its continuously accelerating the longer it's in use so you could be looking at potentially millions of them. Even if all he did was gather data then he would still have more knowledge than anyone in our galaxy. I firmly believe that TSK is easily the most capable being in the entire 40k setting, he probably knows things we cannot even begin to fathom. Just imagine a version of the 40k cosmos, but on a universal level. That and the idea that Space Marines are the perfect vessel for the necron consciousness makes a possible alliance or merging of the two a possibility.
This might be a weird question, but im new to the lore and wonder if GW makes huge additions to the lore to continue the story. I know they we got few primarchs back, but are they really going to make some 5th chaos god?
I don't like that they're fleshing out the Emperor. I preferred him as a complete unknowable that the reader is allowed to project motivations and abilities onto. I think it's the only way to reconcile all the lore contradictions about him. No matter what the Black Library says, I'm going to continue to insist that the Emperor foresaw the Heresy and used it as an opportunity to become a god, only realizing at the very end what exactly that would do. Letting fans individually choose their lore of the Emperor just seems to fit more in the spirit of the setting. That being said, bringing back the Star Child is absolutely awesome, easily my favorite bit of the new book.
I think they're going for the good part of the emperor's soul being the one creating things like living saints or even being the one that saves Guilliman rather than the star children storyline
I think emperor on throne in 40k becoming dark king again, thats why valdor wants to get his true name or something. That also explain, why in a recent interview Dan said, without golden throne universe will end
The Starchild is older than that. It shows up first in the hardback "Realms of Chaos" game books for 3e Fantasy and 1e 40k, in reference to the Sensei, supposed children of the Emperor. I should also note that there is a very old piece of lore, from one of the older Chaos codices, that Tzeentch knows that if the Emperor wakes up, with ten thousand years of trillions of souls' belief in him, he would become a warp storm / god so powerful, it would consume the Ruinous Powers, and become the God of Law. But by knowing this, he would be able to maintain his own consciousness within the God of Law, and has been actively trying to wake up the Emperor.
This is very interesting and was my theory for a while. Specifically that tzeentch(due to the great change involved) wanted the emperor to ascend to something at least equivalent to the chaos gods and that lorgar(partly out of spite) was in on it.
I'd also like to add that whatever the emperor will become is likely set into hs warp self already. The eldar talking to guilliman described the emperor as a "nascent warp entity" and as "mankind's chaos god" adding to that when mortarian killed guilliman and after guilliman was resurrected/possessed mortarian saw what the emperor had become, and was terrified by it, this is a guy who's seen nurgle btw, and whatever the emperor is scared him.
I love your videos! I am a practicing Christian, and can say with confidence that your comparison of the three Emperors to the Holy Trinity is fairly accurate and clever! Also, if you mentioned that you’re considering reading the Dark Imperium series, and I highly recommend you do! That series was what convinced me that it is in fact the Ultramarines are the issue and not Guilliman himself in terms of 40k plot armor. However, I have a simple request that eventually you read a book series I have never heard ANY lore TH-camr (or lore nerd in general), talk about, and that is the glory of the Soul Drinkers Omnibus. This is genuinely one of the best series in the Black Library, and tells the story of a Space Marine chapter not turning traitor because of Chaos, but because they became disgusted by the corrupt Imperium, and decided to begin fighting evil on their own terms!
Guilliman was never a problem of the ultramarines, his problem was the new super soldiers that somehow only he gave all geneseed to one guy... Also, I can't understand the trinity because 3 does not equal 1. The Machine god would be the one true god, the omnissiah a prophet and the motive force the basic rules of reality. Only two of these are one thing, God can in essence be the laws of reality having created them, joining God with the emperor would imply that the emperor was the one true god, which is not the case in any depiction of 40k, and don't give me the, "primaris" marines story again, where he suddenly just is God.
Exactly the thing christians can never explain, If jesus was son of god then there would be two gods, christianity in all my life has never referred to jesus as the only god and at the same time Christians don't pray to the father, because wouldn't the father be the one true God. If anything islaam and judaism have one true god, both refer to mortals as prophets which in the context of the two holy scriptures, jesus is mortal so why did he(blessings be upon him) become a God between it's sister religions? Don't take this as a slight or anything, I just still cannot understand the trinity.
@@tarektechmarine8209 It’s very theological, but the most basic premise is that God is so great and powerful that he can in fact “separate” himself into different facets of himself. God The Father is the well, Father. He created everything, cares for the entire earth and its inhabitants, and is our Father. Jesus is his only son, who was sent by God the Father to die for our sins so that we may live forever with God. And the Holy Spirit is the embodiment of God’s grace and glory, who he sends to those who need it. It’s all much more complicated than that, but that’s the best way I could think of to explain it.
Chaos must have taken a serious hit when The Emperor beat down Horus. If they could make Horus so powerful he was a challenge to Him, why haven't they done it since unless it actually hurt them somehow. But then that makes one wonder how Drachnyan isn't a warp god.
i love that the first BL plotline (and the first retcon) is now full circle being reintroduced in what is not just the final crowning book of the HH series but arguably the crowning achievement of BL as a stable AND the solidification of warhammer lore after a 30 year process
I didn't read it but I've listened to several videos about the Dark King and The Emperor "turning down" godhood but it's also super clear the Emperor is losing his free will and kinda becoming the opposite of his goals. Is he the dark king? Or is he just becoming consumed by the dark king, which is what it sounds like. I still can't buy the "need" to jettison his empathy. Dudes done horrific shit, to his sons as well. Horus was so comically gone that not killing him would require throwing away his empathy. Empathy for Horus, humanity, the empire, Malcadore, etc etc, and all his loyal sons.
Lion: Son of the Forest made the Lion my fsvorite character in 40k. I love this new Lion, so relatable, most relatable of all the major 40k characters. This new Lion has taken up my 40k focus
Old lore getting revamped after decades? FINALLY
WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK 😤
@@livefromtheblacklibraryplease dont use bad words im currently in the warp
Bro when you think about it, people have literally lived and died thinking the siege ended the way the myths and legends said it did. Only now are we hearing otherwise. 40k is that old and backed up with unwritten, past lore lol. That's insane
Obiwan Sherlock Colsseu model when?
Ordo Hydra, Canonise the Sensei
The Emperor has so much time to kill on the Golden Throne, he's just making his own OCs and adding them to the lore.
I mean ten thousand years is a long time
Jokes aside, that's legit a potentially good idea if we subscribe to the idea that all psychically active species in the galaxy either die out or implode creating a chaos god. Big E could be basically creating a human pantheon to divide mankind's psychic power, kinda of like the Eldar pantheon before slaanesh.
Troons
I think the whole Horus Heresy was just a massive gambit by the Chaos Gods. Not to kill the Emperor, but to tempt him into embracing Chaos and becoming the Dark King.
Yeah that’s the great part. It wasn’t necessarily originally intended but it fits perfectly. Really good writing.
Malice is the Dark King.
That hateful fragment of the Emperor that he also ejected from himself, just as he ejected the Star Child.
The Starchild is the light, Malice is the dark.
Faux theory, but I like it.
👀 I KNOW ITLL NEVER HAPPEN BUT THAT SOUNDS DOPE
i have been suggesting that in my circle for years. Quite fond of the theory, even though it'll never happen.
A lot of Warhammer 40k channels have stepped up their game thanks to newcomers like you, a high tide floats all boats
@@LZRCuteR Ah, thanks man. That’s really high praise, just for a comment.
I realise this would mean the Sons of Malice were loyalist the entire time. Lol.
I like how the dark king transformation makes complete sense how it works but was also hard to predict happening in the story.
I love how The Dark King is described, an immense black sphere surrounded by seven luminous white spear-bearing figures. Very much the vibe of a "Chaos God of order".
Indeed 🤝
*Warp god of Order
There are many warp gods in Immaterium and chaos gods are just subsets of Warp gods, there's even hints of both Magnus and Leman Russ' true form is akin to powerful Titans from old human legends but actually stronger than Imperium' titan mechs (since Primarchs' souls have ties to destiny and can bend the ties of fate surrounding them, at least to varying extent, only Horus which got permanently deleted and Fulgrim clone in Trazyn's museum technically have the original lesser warp god soul of Fulgrim prior to being ejected by daemonic soups that take over control his bodily remains which acts as Slaanesh's puppet/daemon Primarch)
The inquisitor books did not introduce the concept of Starchild. It was the Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned from 1989. It also introduce Horus killing Sangiunus, the Emperor being taken to safety by Dorn. As well as Daemon Primarchs such as Mortarion, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar and Perturabo.
Yeah, that book is super important to what 40k would become and its sadly forgotten.
That and whole TTS Starchild plotline. Lets be real GW DEFINANTLY used that too 😂
@@berilsevvalbekret772 didnt GW copyright the astartes animated short and then hire the guy behind it? they also were likely going to go after tts next, they definitely took that idea and i am HERE FOR IT
The idea of the dark king becoming a 5th chaos god could play neatly with vashtor trying to become a 5th chaos god. This idea of multiple beings either attempting to become or being forced into the spot of the 5th god would be interesting. Maybe even bring back some malal/malice in there too since old stuff is coming back into canon.
Its gonna end up in an AoS style hard reset when the 40k End Times inevitably occurs like 5 to 10 years from now
@maltheri9833 I just thought it would be neat so see some old stuff get resurfaced I got no real liking of it tbh. The paint schemes for the sons of malice is cool tho.
@@t_hetty1758 4 Chaos gods + ascended Vashtorr + barely remembered Malice + creeping Dark King + Enthroned Emperor of Mankind
8 pointed Star of Chaos completed, the 8 pointed Star of Chaos might even changes its alignment, powers and affinities as the emergence of new chaos gods happens to interrupt The Great Game and the boiling of Immaterium
@@ohamatchhams wow I didn’t even think of that. If there is a storyline leading to an “8 pointed star of chaos” like the actual symbol that would be pretty cool.
@@ohamatchhams I've been thinking the same for a while. It seems that is the metanarrative on the chaos side of the war. There are now at least three nascent beings that seem to be gunning for Godhood; Vashtorr, Be'lakor and The Dark King. If they can recover the rights to Malal, that would make a good fourth contender. It is the sort of storyline that GW can spread out over the next 50 years if they wanted. Another contender I could see coming along is Lorgar. He is on the move again, and I suspect if he can overcome Corvus, he will be shooting to no-longer worship the Gods, but to become one.
My theory after EATD II is this: Starchild is out there, but the husk of the emperor is therefore, as you said, a cold, unfeeling machine - and it was his humanity that lead him to follow Ollanius and reject the powers of the Dark King in the first place. So the rest of the emperors soul still on terra would be much more open to accepting this power, should he get the chance. And he might get that chance if his physical body dies and this part of his soul would be ejected into the warp. The custodes realize this, which is why they are so worried about the failing of the golden throne that they were open to deal with Commoragh to fix it and keep the body of the emperor alive. As long as the starchild is not reunited or sufficiently empowered, the Golden Throne is not just a machine for the Emperor - it is a prison for the Dark King. And I have to say - Humanity having to keep their own God locked up to prevent him from destroying it would be a very Grimdark/40k thing indeed!
If someone told me the first sentence came straight from lorgar I wouldn't be surprised
PFFFTTT LMAO
After refusing to become The Dark King, The Emperor told Ol He'd made a new plan.
Here's my theory: The Emperor knows He's going to be mortally wounded in the battle with Horus. After all, he's basically just given up the power to win. What he wants, is for Ol to become Malcador's effective replacement, to steer The Imperium and act as His voice while the dying Emps is bound to The Throne. The tragedy of course, is that we know Ol will die, The Imperium will lose its immortal leadership and ties to the past, and be plunged into ten-thousand years of darkness.
@maltheri9833 Really? Has that been confirmed?
I do hope we finally get a POV from the Emperor in volume 3
Why does this seem obvious to even a lowly novice lore consumer like myself, or maybe I'm not that much of a novice anymore? I'm not even sure what the normal gamer level is because I don't really play them. If I did I would play battlefront Gothic with the skalgrim mod probably but I don't have a good computer for it.
So in summary:
The Chaos gods tried to pull a Godhand from Berserk
Ollanius Pius is still the GOAT
Star Child is a thing (I’m just waiting for it to go the route of TTS)
The Dark King might one day come again
The visions humans have of the star child remind me a lot of the visions of the eagle in berserk !
If it goes the TTS route I will legit cry and not much makes me cry. TTS made it such a second hand emotional gut punch
Guilliman's musings about the Emperor in Dark Imperium are pretty interesting. By Guilliman's perspective the Emperor has become utterly inhuman and a being beyond understanding.
Hold up. That description of the dark king as a smooth black orb sounds an awful lot like the Tyrant Star. I’d be down for that to be a thing. Like it’s slowly regaining power.
Sounds like gantz
I just hope that the Dark King, Emperor becoming god fully and the Star Child isn't/won't be just a way for GW to create the "Age of Emperor" in case of 40k going down in sales, but would be an actual plot point to make the plot more interesting of 40k without the full collapse of everything.
@maltheri9833 well, for Eldars you could make that the chaos that ensued made it possible for Isha to escape and now they have support of their god, or you could make something different with them. For Tau it would be very easy to just say that now they expanded more, but now they start to face bigger resistance from the population (after all the Emperor is now alive) so they would be faced with several options one of them being ethnic cleansing. Orks are just orks, maybe Ghazkull becomes a krork. Same for Tyranids, or you could make them loose control over large amounts of their forces after the "death" of Emperor and the blowout that happened after the destruction of Terra and the Astronomicon meaning that there are entire systems full of mindless swarms, maybe make some into their own hives either starting their own hive fleets that now attack independently of the Hive mind or make them stay where they are so that their plot point would be being destroyed by other factions that want to take that spot. You could save Admech by either them making rocket engines and move Mars as far away from Terra as possible or Void Dragon is awaken and saves them from doom, so Admech start worship him and fully turn into a technology cult possibly even turning into kinda-Necrons but without the living metal and it looks more like Dark Mechanicum. CSM gets out of the Eye of Terror and warbands create their small empires in Imperium Nihilus and the remaining parts of Imperium Sanctus that aren't Ultramar or other regions protected by IG and/or SM. Chaos Daemons are everywhere and fight between each other in real space.
Kinda took inspiration from Pancreas's vid of bringing down the Imperium, but instead of making it stupid and too much like Fantasy Battles I instead opted for something that would be less stupid for the setting of 40k. After all Imperium just collapsing wouldn't be much except of non-imperial factions getting more powers against just Humanity, but this way other factions could gain relevance other ways that aren't just punching the remnants of humans but also somehow make them not just destroy all those remnants. Plus Imperium is too big to fall down by itself and imo only the destruction of Astronomicon and a large portion of Imperium Sanctus could realistically do it. However most importantly, this way Humanity wouldn't just die from being surrounded by enemies, but now have Emperor as an actual god that could help them by sending his own daemons to protect human worlds, and maybe eventually start a new Crusade Idk.
Either way there are many ways to make the "Age of Emperor", or maybe it would be interesting to have some of it without 40k becoming 2nd AoS, like Emperor doesn't "dies" thus not fully becoming a god, but being just close enough to start making an impact. Though yes even with some new stuff for other factions they still would feel kinda left out by the amount of stuff Imperials would get so maybe it's not that good of an idea anyway
As the universe was not destroyed it is safe to assume that the Emperor, though really strong that he could rival the chaos gods has not ascended yet, since it's been known that the universe itself will get destroyed if the Big E ascends.
@@mekolaynthere was a cool fan fic called 50k and then 60k
I could see a warhammer 50k on the horizon, mainly to allow for more story space and more AOS style gameplay, I think unlikely AOS it would be the end of 40k's lore and you'd get black library books for it just like heresy
@@ArchenwWas 50k the one where the Emperor becomes the "Star Father" which is essentially the Star Child but as a grotesque Chaos God, that fought ALL 4 OF THE CHAOS GODS at once? There was also the release of the Void Dragon, Ahriman’s empire is growing, Abaddon and Huron’s inevitable war, the Deceiver releasing an ancient superweapon that uncreates reality and the fact that the Deep Warp itself is alive and intends to destroy all of creation too. Got to say, it was actually a pretty fun fanfic for 40K.
I think its cool going back and reusing old lore but adapted to fit the current direction of the universe
With the whole Star Child/God of Order theory it really does seem like we are inevitably barrelling towards an AoS style complete change to the setting, if the Emperor ascends and becomes the God of Order (like they did to Sigmar, basically making him the default protagonist of AoS) with all currently alive Primarchs returned its entirely possible we see the dead ones come back too since their souls must still be lingering in the Warp somewhere since ya know, when that kinda Warp fuckery is involved no one is ever truly dead, so as much as it would absolutely suck and retcon the shit out of core parts of the setting itself such as Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus, Ferrus Manus' death at the hands of Fulgrim on Istvaan V being a core part of Fulgrim's tragic fall to Chaos they could pull some bs like "with the Emperor's ascension and the birth of a new God of Order, all those loyal to him were restored in a psychic emanation as powerful as the very formation of the galaxy itself" kinda retcon and that sheer amount of unleashed psychic energy brings the Emperor's realm and the dead loyalist Primarchs into being and that's how we'll see essentially the end of 40k as we know it when they inevitably AoS hard reset/End Times the setting, plus they're not just gonna stop once all the currently alive Primarchs are back in the setting on both the loyalist and traitor side, like they're not just gonna stop writing once we reach that point and be like "that's it, this is 40k forever now, no new stories ever again" kinda thing, that would be just stupid, they've kinda forced themselves to pull an End Times scenario and hard reset the entire setting
With Girly Roboman around there might be changes in how the setting functions vut i doubt they'd pull an AOS, even just the name 40k carries way too much money
@maltheri9833 yeah, plus it's not like they can't make stories set in 40k
No.
All this stuff is to keep you buying.
They'll never resolve it unless doing so would make more money.
This setting stuff is just to facilitate sales.
It's always a good day when Chrono uploads
I think I understand how the dark King transformation works as we know pskers draw their power from the warp but they can't draw too much power or they will lose control or die but the emperor does not have to worry about this therefore he can draw upon as much warp power as he wants until he can eventually become the dark king.
Yes and no, The Emps does not have a limit to the energy his siphons, but if he gets too much he will ascend to godhood which he doesn't want to cause if he did the galaxy will get utterly destroyed
You know this makes me think an eldar fall novel/s would be cool, like it turns out there was a war near the end (between a 3rd wave of 'we went to far' eldar vs the pleasurecults) but the anti-slaanesh fsction fails.
And the Horus heresy was almost a repeat
YEAH IT WOULD BE DOPE but I feel like it’s best if a lot of ancient galactic history is kept mysterious for the setting
Wonder what the humans thought of eldar society during this time
Calling it next, Leman Russ to return from the warp with the fragment of the emperors soul
You have something there. I have been around 40k since the middle too late 80s. I remember the books you speak of about Draco. In the current lore custodians who in the throne room their armor turns black. Also the emperor looks differently to different people.
I was thinking the exact same thing about the Star Child and how it has changed the Emperor since the Heresy. I like to imagine the whole Pious intervention thing aboard Horus' ship as testament that even though he balled up his empathy, etc. and threw it away in desperation to defeat the Arch Traitor, that the Emperor was so compassionate even despite that. Which caused his righteous fury to relent, right up until Horus proved his damnation in front of the Emperor's very eyes.
Vol 2 was great I was angry there was a full third volume. Horus vs sanguineous was amazing. In the first book I called the fact that the emp would be the dark king not horus, I was pleasantly surprised with him, relinquishing the power, as I thought it was actually a really well delivered character beat after he was challenged by ollonius.
Here's a suggestion Chrono : when the HH concludes 18 years of publication, what's going to happen next? as in are there going to be a continuation of sorts (imagine the great scouring being turned into a novel series as a HH sequel) or more books that take place in 30k?
I would love to see a series based on the war in heaven. The idea of a war 60 million years ago with perhaps an insight into the old ones and stuff like ctan and early chaos. Also birth of eldar and krorks.
I could imagine that a lot of ressources and time of the writers might be going towards the amazon-show by Henry Cavill
Werent there rumors of there being the scouring books after the end of the seige of terra
@@t_hetty1758 very tough nut to crack this with the factions being composed of xenos, and with technology that's so advanced. It can work if done correctly. That's my take.
I think they might make a 68-novel prequel series entitled 'Twenty-Two Unreasonable Beefcakes.'
Loved the end and the death Dan Abnett did the impossible and wrote the sangy and horus battle well
4:55 wait a minute, in 40k isn't there a mysterious dark star that sometimes just appears above planets spreading madness and destruction under its balefull light?
Is that the dark king then?
perhaps the dark king is created in the future, only to be born before it's creation event, thus resulting in the tyrant star?
Perhaps Vashtor or Bel'akor will use Abbadon to become the Dark King. Magnus or Lorgar could also have been spending the last 10k years trying to figure out how to become the Dark King too.
Lorgar wont be because he just wants to serve.
I’m not that knowledgeable on 40K lore, I only play the video games and watch lore vids. But I gotta say I love this idea. That as the Horus Heresy was underway and Horus and his father faced off, The Emperor took in more power of the Warp to get stronger, obsessed with the need to defeat Horus, but as he does time gets all weird and he gets encased in a dark cacoon like thing, slowly he could become the Dark King, maybe the realm and single demonic the Dark Skimg already exist because either he’ll eventually come to exist, or it always remains enough of a possibility. Either way it’s an ancient friend of the Emperor who eventually manages to snap him out of this mind set somehow, I like to think this is the Emperor keeping what remains of his Humanity rather then truly becoming a god and relinquishing the power. The Emperor can be a fucked up psychotic person , who knows. But he does care greatly for Humanity. I’d love it if he ever returned to “normal”, maybe have him always be on the verge of becoming the Dark King, like an ever present dark side. Imagine if the Dark King could somehow manifest as a trusty evil copy if the Emperor, but blackened and truly evil.
A lot of Warhammer 40k channels have stepped up their game thanks to newcomers like you, a high tide floats all boats
plot twist, john grammaticus gets to the newborn star child first and we get a trilogy about them "odd coupling" it around the universe......truly.....the darkest of timelines...
I’d kill me. Like I mean that.
THE KING IN YELLOW SEEMS PRETTY DARK TO ME
I love Malcador voice here xD
Canon or not, the current version really feels lackluster, I recommend you guys checking out 50k The Shape of the Nightmare to Come fanfic / theoretical way the setting would progress after another 10k years made like 12 years ago. Apotheosis of the Emperor presented there is way more fascinating and way more fitting the vibes of grimdark 40k than all this Dark King crap.
Holy hell, and treating Horus as potential Dark King is abyssmal. Horus is just a dude and a tool, while each of chaos gods represents the primal truth of the universe, some primal rules that govern the life itself. Some warmongering guy is not befitting such a grand role, because from philosophical point of view, he represents nothing, while true 4 chaos gods represent something far greater than mere mortal life, mere motivations and personality. But well, recent GW book writing quality is not shining. Ynnari plotline was an interesting concept, but pulled off in such a lackluster way, it's basically at the dead end. While it could lead to something deep and meaningful, if the law and order in form of the emperor and Ynnead as the god of death would represent the state, most people in the galaxy live in currently, making an impact on the warp itself, creating a warp consciousness of cumulated cold, relentless order / the basically death cult the Imperium is as a whole.
Tyranny, law and order makes you dead inside, while you're still alive, while whatever you do, it's always centered around physical death. Thousand planets forcing people to die in war, in industry, in poverty, and often due to meaningless formalities, people are obsessed about. If such unnatural state, billions of people suffering is not something to stir and influence the warp, I do not know what is. Such environment is unfit for life, unfit for mortals, and is something far greater, like other chaos gods, it represents something extreme enough to birth demons.
yeah I get you - not a big fan of the "amputating the part of Big E soul" I don't remember him being compassionate and caring man, don't know about 50k, but I wished for Sanguinus killing Horus and then fighting Big E in black rage, Majorkill made a video on that
As ever Crono. Spot on Content.
AYYY THANKS
Maybe Big E needs that missing part of his Soul to fully heal?
you can find short stories with that oldest perpetual Person for free if you search free audio books, it tell us his story of how he gets to earth
What’s crazy is volume 3 is already releasing at the end of January. I have a feeling that’s when the real fun is gonna begin
Yeah I didn’t know this book was gonna be the second of a dang trilogy. The first volume was so much cooler.
@@whitebenjamin75 My copy just came in, so I’m going to start it tonight, I seriously can’t believe so many TH-camrs have finished it already, assuming they have full-time jobs and sleep 8 hours, because the thing is the size of a baneblade
New Crono Content, hell of a birthday present
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUDE!!!!
Thank you! Amazing voice acting for Malcador, by the way
Imagine if the star child and the dark king both return as seperate entitys and the imperium is split into 2 groups. Some space marine chapters can follow the dark king and some chapters can follow the star child. Maybe the cadians and krieg both take different sides. Basically splitting all imperium players down the middle like a 2nd heresy. Krieg fans might follow the dark king (as an example) and then they would be in lore arguments with cadian fans. Black templar players may debate with ultramarine players about who the real emperor is. Basically the entire imperium is ripped in half as well as the imperium players.
I don’t know why but the voice you give Malcador makes him sound like a Smurf to me lol.
I don't really have any theories on this myself, but I wanted to say this is some of my favorite of all the content you do! Please keep it up! I feel like I could literally listen to you talk about emperor theories, the ascension, and anti-warp for days.
Your Malcador voice is perfect. Best in-character reading on youtube, by far.
"For this era at least"
The *era* indomitus has entered the chat.
I don't remember this era, might want to purge any record of this heretical writing and absolutely horrible understanding of 40k or the imperium(Or basic common sense)
@@tarektechmarine8209
>Warhammer 40K and/or Imperium
>Imperium fanboyism brainlet with butchered latin, illiteracy in religion like swapping Heresy with Apostasy, etc in its fandom being not obnoxious
>Having consistent lore revision and not lacking golden rule/design document/bible
>basic common sense
Pick one
I feel like Warhammer is finally getting out of the it’s stagnation faze that it been stuck in for so long. Probably because gw realizes all the money that comes with it.
That’s true but tbh I do have some issues regarding that because now so many books are either just serious as a heart attack or can’t risk straying from the current direction of the narrative
@@livefromtheblacklibraryi hope thst they push for either more xeno books or at least more self contained stuff like Cain
Yes, now they'll destroy it.
Your Malcador voice is absolutely classic. That's how I hear him in my head now 😅
Awwww yeah Chrono vid for the ride home
👏👏👏
I both get it and don’t as two sons were wiped out before and there was even a Vote on if Lorgar should be wiped out or not and he sees Sangius dead on the ground too but I guess he spent the most time with Horus would effect him because what 50-75 or 100 years with him the most out of everyone
"yes John grammaticus is here,.." I felt that , lol
Only a GOD could reject divinity!!!
FOR THE EMPEROR
It's often those who yearn for ascension out of sheer ego and unhinged avarice that fail to grasp the what being a god actually entails.
However, some men who are very long lived and powerful enough to be a flick of a dick away from godhood such as the emperor fear the possibility that becoming a god could be a fate FAR WORSE than any hell conjured in the collective imagination of mankind.
When I first heard malcador mention that fragment I immediately thought "can't wait for chrono to make a short about this"
That "what murdaaa" for the emporer fuckin killed me 🤣
I absolutely love the new novels tying back to some of the literal first 40K novels. Great video dude
I think what you mentioned about Ollanius Pius' intervention is not going to be in Vol.3- it *already occured* here at the end of Vol.2. His conversation with Emps IS that intervention that steels him for the fight. The legends got the timing all mixed up
The Emperor separating his soul of a part of him with so compassion and love to fight Horus and he can coalesce into a body or soul of the star child theory maybe the emperor knew what this would mean in the future .
Abaddon proclaimed in Arks of Omen that he foresees the death of pretty much the galaxy, and that he needs his key to obtain the means to save at least something. Perhaps we're going to need the maximum evil Lord Abaddon, Warmaster of Chaos to save humanity in a heroic duel against the Emperor!
Fine YT algorithm, I will watch the bloody 40K video.
In a single day, it has been top of my autoplay list 5+ times.
Id also like to add that the emperor's "realm of chaos" is likely that of the dark king.
I do recommend the Dark Imperium books, they slap big time. The second book is bit tedious to read but the structure and the story are very sound. But in the 3rd book it all pays off big time.
About the starchild, I was already assuming to be a facet of sorts of the Emperor allowing and blessing the "burst" of the Saints. Btw in dark imperium we get to know one of the new saints. Again, I can't recommend it enough.
I love your Malcador voice.
Fun fact: That's also how Leman Russ sounds!
Waiting Lobby for the End & The Death volume 2 video.
One day 😔
Ahhh yes the childy star... and kingy dark
I wonder if Abadon eventually might become a less metaphysical Dark King, literally founding an empire of darkness within the Warp and Imperium Nihilus? It seems like each of the Chaos gods are carving out small fiefs right now via the Demon primarchs; Magnus has captured a whole cluster and altered the warp currents to prevent travel to and from it, Mortarion and the Deathguard have conquered a small region but mortarion decided to try and 1v1 Guilliman instead of helping with that and pissed off nurgle for his trouble, and with the breaking of the Coral Engine Angron has cursed an entire subsector in imperium Nihilus with Khornate madness which effectively seeds control of that area to Khorne. We also know that Purturabo (Perhaps aligned with Vashtor, perhaps not), Fulgrim and Lorgar are on the move but haven't made their presence especially felt yet, and they're likely to follow suite and carve out their own small realspace fieifdoms from whence they can spread chaos and fight the imperium. If this is the case, it'll make a lot of sense for Abadon to do something similar, to take and hold ground to form a logistical base to slowly take the imperium apart piece by bloody piece, and as warmaster of chaos he'll probably take the largest swathe of territory. There is also still the matter of Huron Blackheart and the red corsairs who already effectively have a small fief within the Maelstrom and, in case we forget, still have one of the Blackstone fortresses in there coutesy of Abadon so should not be taken lightly either, even if they are nominally a smaller threat than the Black legion.
Great to see you make a debut on astartes anonimous a great adision to the greater war hammer youtube sphere
Emps becomes the Trinity.
Dark Father.
Suffering Mother.
Pure Child.
Ironic. The one who didn't want his children to believe in God, is the one most suitable to become one. Only one who rejects Godhood is worthy of achieving it.
Hail the God-Emperor.
A man who is the closest to a god the species has ever produced, and is being made a god by the people around him, yet denies his godhood. The imperial truth was a stop gap to buy him a few more centuries of not being worshipped so he could avoid being made his own avatar. The more he concentrates his influence the further and further away he's driven from his humanity and this is largely out of his hands by the time his name is known on all those worlds. But he stopped the process by anchoring it to one physical location - earth. God is supposedly everywhere, this god is local to the Milky way galaxy, specifically in a chair. I think that's more interesting. A man scrabbling for a purchase in the physical world despite everything and everyone literally forcing godhood onto him. Perhaps that bridging of a gap between the physical and the divine is the point - the denial of both the mundane and the supernatural as ruler but a unsteady synthesis of both. The throne is breaking down, and God's don't explode.
Matt Ward will undergo apotheosis and become the Dark King.
I definitely recommend 'The Great Work', its a fun Cawl book.
10:01 it said ALMOST meaning that the emperor love his son's and subjects is just that great
If horus was becoming a god due to the heresy. Maybe slaanesh was an individual before the fall of the eldar
The Star Child lets the Black Library authors subvert hope. A revitalized/reborn Emperor is the sort of thing that gives folks a hope that the Imperium’s agonizingly slow fall from the heights of the Great Crusade can be arrested (& hopefully reversed).
Dangling that cookie in from of the reader, & the snatching it back will be peak Grimdark.
I've heard Horus referred to as the sacrificed king, but I never can remember what it was in reference to.
Dan Abnett was on some lovecraft/ evangelion type shit when he was writing all the segments involving the emperor as the dark king it was amazing
If they wabt to end of times the setting the Dark King is a great oportunity. For me a second coming of the Dark King should be through Lorgar
First coming- Dark King was Emperor, Horus, Pious/Erebus
Second Coming-Valdor, Abaddon, Lorgar/Erebus
Malcador sounded like he popped a perc 30
Whenever people read that bit of how the dark king card gets changed for the despoiler I can’t but think that they are misreading the situation. Like the way I saw it it made more sense that the cards are showing the 40k future, and not Abbadon as the next dark king.
Kinda odd to say in a star child video but yeh
Firstly - the references to the "Child star" fit the old lore too perfectly for it to just be a reference. It's absolutely a plot point they're going to follow up on. Lion: Son of the Forest uses an awful lot of Arthurian symbolism, including presenting the Emperor as the Fisher King. The Fisher King needed the Holy Grail to be healed, so that suggests that there will be some kind of quest plotline to find the "Holy Grail" - probably the Starchild.
Secondly, however - actually finding the Starchild and reunifying the Emperor's soul is far too Noblebright for a 40k plotline. I propose that by the time the Starchild shows up, both it and the man on the Golden Throne have changed too much, and they can't be reunified. He on Earth becomes the Dark King and a new antagonist for the setting; the Starchild becomes the new Emperor, with only fuzzy access to the old Emperor's power and memories, and The Emperor in the warp - the focus of the Imperial Cult's worship - becomes a new, less powerful god.
the black sphere is just a neat visual on it's own tbh
Im new to WarHammer, but why does GW neglect their IP for years at a time and not focus on advancing the story?
Honestly because they don’t wanna move too fast and burn out the plot
@livefromtheblacklibrary wow, I'm surprised you replied, plus that's an actual good reason that makes sense.
Also, properly advancing the plot will mean to kill some characters. But the characters are miniatures. And GW is a miniature company, after all.
I'd say a mix of 40k being made for the longest time as a setting more than a story, expansive but not that continuous. Along with that, their experience with warhammer fantasy: where they did build and change some, but would eventually try to end it and fumbled pretty much every aspect of it, thus may make them nervous to change too much.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary because they're uncreative. Think just for a second about how many story lines can come from a world like necromunda alone. They very rarely explore these, skipping thousands of years of what would be turmoil, rebellion, discoveries and political movements. But no, instead we get that Cawl alone equipped and made an entire 8-9 legion of better super soldiers and nobody knew about it, as if the inquisition wouldn't know and have it under their authority instead of a primarch of which 9 turned traitor already.
if they re going to bring the star child back it will be the part of its soul in the warp . and the dark king i think was suposed to be one of few character i think Lutin talked about it in the past and was saying Horus the Emperor and few others who could have been the dark king
and those chaos of order and anti warp shhh are not going to happen there re some specific words they use when his close to became a god that like a tittle/explanation of what kind of god he will be
I love your Malcedor voice 😂
Emperor :reject Dark king returned to monke
I don't think younger me knew this was retconned in the first place. Blows my mind that it's being restored to canon.
Great video - keep them coming
yeah, definitely Malcador would say those words - a man who kickstarted Inquisition, was cold and ruthless agent controlling things from the shadow, would told about his friend whom he known since 7000 years, who was just as cold, methodical prick as him, already killing two primarchs (who cares which hands got bloodied personally to do so, he is responsible still for that) - that he needed to drop empathy and was too caring for his sons (after how he treated Mortarion, Perturabo and Lorgar, and how Sanguinus was shitting his pants for his legion mutations not to become widely known in fear of the Big E, even with Jaghatai treating him with scepticism)
Legit!
I'm super with you. It's baffling. It would have been SO much worse not to kill Horus. Worse for all those loyal to him and those he apparently loves so much like the loyal Primarchs.
@@dashvash5440 Honestly man, regardless of what is written in the book, my headcanon will always be this theory, where Horus had been killed by Sanguinus, who later succumbed to black rage and fought with Emperor, mortally wounding him. Then the legend about evil Horus and good Sanguinus has been propagated by the Imperium, whom faith defiles both truth and what Big E standed for.
It's grimdark, it's twisted and it IMO filles the plothole about whole hesitation thing. If not emotionally, Emperor would not want to get rid of such an asset in his Imperium, Sanguinus was, thus hesitating to kill him is not a farfetched scenario.
I have a theory of my own that The Silent King is going to encase the Emperors form in a necrodermis body (that is also made of blackstone) and resurrect him in an indestructible physical form. The Necrons have the ability to contain and control godly and warp energies for various purposes and maybe there is a mutually beneficial agreement here. The guy did travel the universe for 60 million years so he likely encountered many many galaxies worth of information and technology. And no he didn't have the stasis fields on the whole time because they didn't need them anymore. They might have used them in the spaces between galaxies for boredoms sake but I think he was awake the entire time otherwise. Even if all he did was a 60 million light year circle he still had access to possibly dozens of galaxies. But we all know they have the "inertialess drive" which means he could have gone much much further, and some people say that its continuously accelerating the longer it's in use so you could be looking at potentially millions of them. Even if all he did was gather data then he would still have more knowledge than anyone in our galaxy. I firmly believe that TSK is easily the most capable being in the entire 40k setting, he probably knows things we cannot even begin to fathom. Just imagine a version of the 40k cosmos, but on a universal level. That and the idea that Space Marines are the perfect vessel for the necron consciousness makes a possible alliance or merging of the two a possibility.
The great horned rat is the dark king.
This might be a weird question, but im new to the lore and wonder if GW makes huge additions to the lore to continue the story. I know they we got few primarchs back, but are they really going to make some 5th chaos god?
BAE WAKE UP FUNNY CLUSSYMAN POSTED
LMFAO
I saw this on my Twitter timeline and I just wanna say my entire day has come to a screeching halt because of this comment
The video is very interesting.😅
Thank you chrono the harlequin aka black library.❤❤❤❤❤❤
AND THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT
I don't like that they're fleshing out the Emperor. I preferred him as a complete unknowable that the reader is allowed to project motivations and abilities onto. I think it's the only way to reconcile all the lore contradictions about him. No matter what the Black Library says, I'm going to continue to insist that the Emperor foresaw the Heresy and used it as an opportunity to become a god, only realizing at the very end what exactly that would do. Letting fans individually choose their lore of the Emperor just seems to fit more in the spirit of the setting.
That being said, bringing back the Star Child is absolutely awesome, easily my favorite bit of the new book.
This is such a cool twist and I don't think the surprising reveals are over. 😀
I think they're going for the good part of the emperor's soul being the one creating things like living saints or even being the one that saves Guilliman rather than the star children storyline
I think emperor on throne in 40k becoming dark king again, thats why valdor wants to get his true name or something. That also explain, why in a recent interview Dan said, without golden throne universe will end
How do you not have more subs? Looking forward to the next summary vid on Vol. 2
The Starchild is older than that. It shows up first in the hardback "Realms of Chaos" game books for 3e Fantasy and 1e 40k, in reference to the Sensei, supposed children of the Emperor.
I should also note that there is a very old piece of lore, from one of the older Chaos codices, that Tzeentch knows that if the Emperor wakes up, with ten thousand years of trillions of souls' belief in him, he would become a warp storm / god so powerful, it would consume the Ruinous Powers, and become the God of Law. But by knowing this, he would be able to maintain his own consciousness within the God of Law, and has been actively trying to wake up the Emperor.
This is very interesting and was my theory for a while. Specifically that tzeentch(due to the great change involved) wanted the emperor to ascend to something at least equivalent to the chaos gods and that lorgar(partly out of spite) was in on it.
I'd also like to add that whatever the emperor will become is likely set into hs warp self already. The eldar talking to guilliman described the emperor as a "nascent warp entity" and as "mankind's chaos god" adding to that when mortarian killed guilliman and after guilliman was resurrected/possessed mortarian saw what the emperor had become, and was terrified by it, this is a guy who's seen nurgle btw, and whatever the emperor is scared him.
I love your videos! I am a practicing Christian, and can say with confidence that your comparison of the three Emperors to the Holy Trinity is fairly accurate and clever! Also, if you mentioned that you’re considering reading the Dark Imperium series, and I highly recommend you do! That series was what convinced me that it is in fact the Ultramarines are the issue and not Guilliman himself in terms of 40k plot armor.
However, I have a simple request that eventually you read a book series I have never heard ANY lore TH-camr (or lore nerd in general), talk about, and that is the glory of the Soul Drinkers Omnibus. This is genuinely one of the best series in the Black Library, and tells the story of a Space Marine chapter not turning traitor because of Chaos, but because they became disgusted by the corrupt Imperium, and decided to begin fighting evil on their own terms!
Guilliman was never a problem of the ultramarines, his problem was the new super soldiers that somehow only he gave all geneseed to one guy... Also, I can't understand the trinity because 3 does not equal 1. The Machine god would be the one true god, the omnissiah a prophet and the motive force the basic rules of reality. Only two of these are one thing, God can in essence be the laws of reality having created them, joining God with the emperor would imply that the emperor was the one true god, which is not the case in any depiction of 40k, and don't give me the, "primaris" marines story again, where he suddenly just is God.
Exactly the thing christians can never explain, If jesus was son of god then there would be two gods, christianity in all my life has never referred to jesus as the only god and at the same time Christians don't pray to the father, because wouldn't the father be the one true God. If anything islaam and judaism have one true god, both refer to mortals as prophets which in the context of the two holy scriptures, jesus is mortal so why did he(blessings be upon him) become a God between it's sister religions? Don't take this as a slight or anything, I just still cannot understand the trinity.
@@tarektechmarine8209 It’s very theological, but the most basic premise is that
God is so great and powerful that he can in fact “separate” himself into different facets of himself. God The Father is the well, Father. He created everything, cares for the entire earth and its inhabitants, and is our Father. Jesus is his only son, who was sent by God the Father to die for our sins so that we may live forever with God. And the Holy Spirit is the embodiment of God’s grace and glory, who he sends to those who need it.
It’s all much more complicated than that, but that’s the best way I could think of to explain it.
Chaos must have taken a serious hit when The Emperor beat down Horus. If they could make Horus so powerful he was a challenge to Him, why haven't they done it since unless it actually hurt them somehow. But then that makes one wonder how Drachnyan isn't a warp god.
i love that the first BL plotline (and the first retcon) is now full circle being reintroduced in what is not just the final crowning book of the HH series but arguably the crowning achievement of BL as a stable AND the solidification of warhammer lore after a 30 year process
The key to take away is almost all of that part of him was cast aside
I think my Word Bearers warband will now be focused on bringing the Dark King into the galaxy.
I didn't read it but I've listened to several videos about the Dark King and The Emperor "turning down" godhood but it's also super clear the Emperor is losing his free will and kinda becoming the opposite of his goals.
Is he the dark king? Or is he just becoming consumed by the dark king, which is what it sounds like.
I still can't buy the "need" to jettison his empathy. Dudes done horrific shit, to his sons as well.
Horus was so comically gone that not killing him would require throwing away his empathy. Empathy for Horus, humanity, the empire, Malcadore, etc etc, and all his loyal sons.
Lion: Son of the Forest made the Lion my fsvorite character in 40k. I love this new Lion, so relatable, most relatable of all the major 40k characters. This new Lion has taken up my 40k focus