Primarch Redundancies | Warhammer 40k Lore
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Traitor Primarchs be like "I never wanted this 😔" while they atomise puppies.
“Burns Galaxy”
What do you think the Lion's role as the Escaton was? 🤔
Some of them genuinely didn’t
@@jellydamgood Good point.
@@brian2888 "casually stabs nephew"
The Emperor was so far sighted, he even made a back up mysterious missing primarch for the already mysterious missing one
I like the idea that Angron was made to help heal his brothers after being to used to war
Combined with the honorable devoted brotherhood aspect that he had going on with his fellow gladiators....we almost had space paladins.
Could angron have cured or at least healed the red thirst?
Rus and the Lion were the Chaos killers. The Lion was great at it, and did well to remove the worst of his infested hom planet, and Rus's shout likely was meant to destroy chaos. In fact, I believe that's why he was sent after Magnus, even if it wasn't meant to be a death blow.
Rus was never meant to wield the power, but to crush it.
Interesting list indeed. My first tought is that Fulgrim fits the administrator archetype too.
That’s true! And the charismatic leader!
I feel like Fulgrim is sort of a Generalist archetype all on his own. Maybe not the best at anything but possibly the best at anything at the same time. I think the more you look into him the more its hard to pin him down. Besides stealth or infiltration i think he fits into any given archetype in this list.
Ig his thing is that he doesnt have any special power but he tries to be the best at everything, so hes a contender in every category but he often gets overlooked or simplified as the fancy duelist femboy@@livefromtheblacklibrary
@@aguspuig6615Fulgrim does have a niche though, one seem by how he was able to unite his homeworld entirely without bloodshed via playing politics: he is redundant with Guiliman for being the politician primarch
Lets not forget angron wanted to be with his slave family so bad that he charged the emperor and ripped a fully armored custodies in half bare handed. BARE HANDED.
I mean primarch vs one custodes isnt much of a fair fight
@@everythingsalright1121 valdor beat dorn in his first fight with him
I feel like this is more like redundant personalities whereas Big E would be more concerned with redundant jobs.
I would have said:
Vulkan & Ferrus Manus : Forgemaster
Lion El Johnson & Horus : Warmaster
Rogal Dorn & Perturabo : Siegemaster
Alpharius & Corvus Corax: Spymaster
Fulgrim & Lorgar: Culturemaster
Sanguinius & Konrad Curze: Scryermaster
Mortarion & Angron: Attritionmaster
Jaghatai Khan & Leman Russ: Executionmaster
Roboute Guilleman & REDACTED: Savantmaster
Magnus & REDACTED: Thronemaster
8:45
We need an animation of him walking along the fields, picking up a skull that he knows was someone close to him.
And have the davy jones quivering lip at the locket moment, before the nails replace his melancholy with hatred and rage
Psykic Foresight: Sanguinius and Konrad Kurze!
Magnus, “Am I a joke to you?”
Yes.- Sanguinius and Kurze probably
my headcannon is that magnus' counterpart was either the 2nd or the 11th just because he was the only uber mega alpha ++ psyker. It would explain why malcador and emps were so desperate to get magnus to not betray as they allready dissapeared the other option.
The Lion is definitely should get a nod in charisma. His first observed meeting with Horus made everyone present kneel to him. He has the kingly aura that only the Emperor has.
I guess, the differentiation there is that the Lion himself isn't actually able to move people with his words like the others. He has a great aura but he isn't able to lead and communicate with his lessers.
If I remember correctly, he often conferred the role of communication to Luther.
Eh, in terms of function and roles, I'm pretty sure that Lion'el Johnson has been stated to be the best duelist. It was why he was able to beat demon primarch angron while having been aged
"At the end of the day its just a car, just a thing" bro has never owned a nice car
Or bro isn't a materialistic worm
I feel like theres another archetype id call something like the Generalist. That for example Fulgrim would fall into.
Were hes not considered the best at anything but you have to put him on the top contenders for practically every category.
Dueling? Check
Inspiring leader? Maybe not Lorgar levels of magically charismatic but Check
Crafstmanship? Maybe not Vulkan, but he can definetly rival Ferrus by his own admission, so Check
Scholarship? Not necesarily warp related, but he did improve his planets technology by alot so Check
Statemanship? Maybe not Guilliman levels of administration but he was the one primarch to unify his world only trough diplomacy, so Check
I feel like he gets alot of shit but he lowkey could fit any role
I've also heard that his regeneration was better than his brothers, so he may not be a perpetual like Vulkan, but he has a kind of off brand next best thing.
18.37 Fulgrim was up there in the charm, didn't he bring accross an entire planet with a dozen space marines, with a certain fabius bile in tow, not sure if even horus or lorgar managed that, more redundancy
Angron really got unlucky with his planet tbh... Swap Guilliman from Ultramar and it would have been the ultramarines getting the nails into them.
Here are what I think the Primarchs are for
WarMaster:
Lion
Horus
Legislatior:
Guilliman
Dorn
Enforcer:
Russ
Alph/Omg
Face (The face of the IOM):
Sanguinius
Fulgrim
Assassin:
Corex
Curze
Ones take control of the Mechanicus:
Manus
Perturabo
Anti-Demon/warp:
Mortarian
Khan
Battery for the Golden Throne:
Magnus
Logar
Soemthing to do with morailty:
Vulkan
Angron
Angron Best duelist.
Lion: Bet
The two lost primarchs were diplomats and fell do to the ability of true empathy with xenos
Robot Grillingman only mentioned once as a 3rd option rip
Example I guess, Dorn & Perterabo were made for very similar forms of war. But Perty was more emotional & Dorn was more stoic.
I think that the “endurance fighter” is a 4 way split but could be more accurately be split into endurance fighters and bulls. The difference being bulls aren’t just tanks they don’t care about pain they will continue to suffer until they kill their target. The Bull is best represented by mortarion and Ferrus manus since both aren’t just tough they are stubbornly tough and one track minded. Ferrus died for his stubbornness and mortarion hated his father because he “stole” the goal he was working on even though he would have otherwise died right there. Perturabo and Vulcan are endurance fighters but in 2 different ways perturabo is the endurance general fighting slow grinding victory because he knows at the end of the day he will out last you while Vulkan is the endurance champion willing to die over and over again in a battle because he knows he can keep dying but you can’t
I think you need to add Alpharius/Omegon to the stealth category. And I agree with the secret keepe4rs archetype. I have long thought that the 1st and 20th Legions had a lot of commonality. I have thougt that the Dark Angels, Whit Scars, Night Lords, Raven Guard and Alpha Legion operated as more special ops forces compared their brother legions. Making use of secrecy, stealth, speed, blitz attacks and misdirection more than other more frontal assault legions like the Sons of Horus or Iron Hands.
LION: Not the only one who can beat ANGRON brother
Ferrus manus special ability
Getting more credit than he deserves and dieing ez
i can say that lion has almsot gone ironically enough conrad curze level of oversharing he shared his feelings about all of his prothers about his legion about falln and so on so complete 180
The "Dutiful Knights" role would probably belong to both Rogal Dorn and Lion El'Jonson
In my opinion, i think that Perturabo should be replaced with Vulkan in the whole resiliant warrior trope here. Not only was he a perpetual that would not stop fighting after death over and over, but his legion kept up the footslogging, hard to kill parallel that the death guard have. Also, it just helps it stay continuous with the pattern of there being one loyalist and one traitor with each of these roles.
Id like to also add that corax also had a whole family structure more or less and kurze had dead rats he had to brutalize just to get sustenance
counter point, magnus is the redundancy of the emperor
Something the hopeful, where they are truly see the best of man kind and what they can be after the crusade. I know all of the primarchs want this but some where more hopeful the others
Mortarion and Jagatai are clearly meant to be rebels. You can see it with their original legions the Dusk Raider made of some most recalcitrant tribe of Terra and the Star Chaser being so independent. Plus they are the two Primarchs who with environmental intervention have the most negative and suspicious opinion on the Big E.
I think Angron would disagree with you.
I’m curious if Alpharius is more of a nature vs nurture situation? Since he was essentially raised by Malcador
In the Craftsman department, I would include the Phoenician. Fulgrim was also Ferrus's equal in craftsmanship. The only weapon Ferrus used that he hadn't made was Forgebreaker... Made by Fulgrim. That's how good he was.
I think that magnus does have a redundant brother
Mortarion
I like the Dorn and Guilliman point. Especially since they both had to fight the alpha legion which is a force designed to break down their very strengths
That family guy edit was amazing
To be a primarch is to be a huge privilege. Most of them were pathetic man-children. Imagine being born immortal super intelligent demigod immune to any sicknesses and mortal sufferings. I would've been the daddy's boy even if he didn't show me love, because I already have everything as a primarch, my legion and a super body plus an uncle like Malcador. (Except Angron)
Corax and Angron have a great similarity in the aspect of a freedom fighter (As others said before). Only Corvus Corax was successful and Angron's character is completely destroyed by the Butchers Nails. I really want to see a mentally stable Spartacus-Angron who cares about his people. But that would be less grimdark...
Imagine being put in charge of the terror legion only to know that all of it is worthless in the long run.
Big E set up the 20 as specific aspects, and double as a redundancy. Also, he was working on the Golden Throne/Beacon, while having Dorn reinforce the Palace. Big E knew things would happen, and prepared for it. There was a reason for all the competition between the Primarchs, and some were very clear cut. The issue is 2 and 11. Not knowing them, or why they were redacted. Alpha Legion would be the hardest to find a counter. Some would say Dark Angels, but they couldn't touch some of the intricate plans that A.L. could. If a different Warmaster were to be assigned, it would have been Sanguinius. Sanguinius demanded art, craftsmanship, as well as battle mastery, and statesmanship. He is even depicted as trying to diffuse tense situations, never speculated on who would beat who, and could be serious or playful, when it was needed.
Obvious missing category is psyker. Sure, Russ is psychically attuned and powerful, but he's no space wizard.
Magnus' redundancy was Mortarion.
Still at the start of the video as I type this.
Something I often speculate on is what archetypes / roles were *missing* from the Primarchs
For "Endurance based Combat", I think I'd swap Perturabo for Vulcan. It took Vulcan a while to master his regenative abilities, but he beat Magnus by just reviving over and over again until either he finally made it within striking distance or he just wore Magnus out.
Compassion, I don't know I'd agrue Magnus. Is a strong contender.
This might be my favorite 40k lore video ever. I think your in my brain. I think about this dumb stuff all the time. I think each primarch was made to run a certain Imperial Organization too. Purterabo & FerrusManus should run the Mechanicum, RG/Administrodum, Corax/Assassins, LElJ/ImpGuard ect.
Malcador saying "we made sons" is funny
Just one small detail, at 15:12 the model Vulkan made for Perturabo wasn't that of a Warlord but a Warhound
It is interesting you mentioned Alpharius/ Omegon being able to hide their primarch presence from lion el Johnson. But Dorn was able to recognize Alpharius immediately, and used this to kill the real Alpharius. The author of the novel went so far to say Alpharius is confirmed to be dead because of this.
So do you still believe that they posses this power?
The fact that alpharius was not mentioned in the stealth category even though that’s literally his primarch ability
It’s not really stealth, more for infiltration. Not exactly the same
Vulcan used a wrist mounted flamer, not a power fist
Damn didn’t see angron and vulkan as similar till this video. Thanks for the enlightenment
But who's the overlap with magnus in the "Replacement battery for the golden throne"? 🤔
Pertirabo chose not to build his architecture he chose to always be at war look at what Robot girlyman and the ultra martens built look at how slow his conquest and for how long longer pulled his shit
I think Mortarion and Konrad could both fit into the category of "terror weapon". The Emperor certainly wasn't against using fear to obtain compliance, so it makes sense he would create Primarchs with the primary role of subjugating enemies through fear.
Both of them displayed great cruelty and a lack of empathy on the battlefield, Konrad with his elaborate terror tactics and Mortarion with his extensive use of biological, chemical and radiological weapons. I think it makes sense they were created with the purpose of putting the fear of death into the Imperium's enemies and force them to the bargaining table; one through precise terror campaigns to destabilize civilian morale, the other through grueling military campaigns to wear down military morale.
Guilliman is the most redundant
An important category that you left out LBL is hot dog eating. Which primarch could eat the most hot dogs in 60 seconds? Another important category: the cross-eyed trick. I don't just mean going cross-eyed, but while cross-eyed being able to move one eye. Both of these are important skills that needed redundancies and the fact that they're missing in this video, makes this video incomplete.
FYI:Spanners are wrenches
Yeah i dont buy for an attosecond Curze wouldnt rip Angry Ronald apart in a duel. if you know everything attack a nail brained berserker is going to make before they do it, you kind of have the advantage. hell even sangi's foresight told him not to fuck with Konrad.
You forgot the most important archetype, the pretty boys. Sanguinius and Fulgrim.
Oh and the obsession with being the best or perfect, Perturabo and Fulgrim
Seriously man, you must battle against Valrak!
And of course live stream the battle report!
I have to disagree, imperial fists were actually at a mediocre size for the astartea legions. At the end of the great crusade the imperial fists were at 100.000 battle brothers, Ultramarines at 250.000 battle brothers.
oo ok. so there is a safe plan for magnus.i mean an extra seed of a primarch?
and I wish there is a fan base towards the dead primarch
I can see why emps would have care for his "tools". As an electrician, I have a set of tools I've owned and used day after day for 7 years. I only want to use those and are saddened when one is lost or broken.
Didn't the "redundant" pairs wind up on the opposite sides of the Heresy.
What about negotiators, something that seemed to be missing alot . Ones that get compliance with out war.
so this would imply one of the lost primarchs was a psyker on par with magnus
if the emperor just let angron do his thing or even give him command of his son while doing his slave revolt, angron couldve been the best tool the emperor can use at least until he dies because of the butcher nail. angron situation is kinda screwed by the writer imo even though we know that he is one of the most incompetent primarch,the dude is a slave for throne sake while his brother aside from mortarion can lead an army and either do a successful revolt or a leader of their own respected planet or kingdom even fucking lorgar lead a cleansing chaos element from his own planet
I think russ overlaps with most of your combat centered categories.
Honestly I really disagree with the idea that any of the primarchs were redundant, while sure some primarchs did share "roles" they all excelled at very particular things. TORTURE AND TERROR is not the same as STEALTH AND SNEAKING!!!
I think you've misrepresented Lorgar and Konrad here due to the way that their upbringing distorted their original purposes.
Before Lorgar was discovered, his legion's primary purpose was to root out superstition and religiosity in all its forms and expunge it from the Imperium with EXTREME prejudice; Fahrenheit 451 style. Burning libraries, demolishing churches, and generally stomping on the embers of faith and grinding it into the dust.
This was Lorgar's primary purpose. This is why he was so single mindedly attracted to religion. He was literally designed to pursue it. But his upbringing on Colchis ironically warped this compulsion to pursue religion from a predatory instinct, into a devotion to it.
In this regard I think Konrad and Lorgar have some overlap. But where Lorgar was designed to pursue and exterminate unsanctioned religiosity, Konrad was designed to pursue crime and rebellion. He's judge, jury, and executioner thus he was born with a strong sense of justice and right wrong because he was meant to be a legal authority who would resolve disputes and punish populations who shrugged their duties to the Imperium.
But, like Lorgar, his primary purpose was distorted by the planet he was raised on. Thus instead of being the Emperor's moral law enforcer, he became a hypocritical and depraved murderer and instead of stomping down rebellions he himself rebelled in the end.
So I actually think Lorgar and Konrad both fulfill a similar role. To not only bring worlds into compliance but also to consolidate the Imperiums authority by rooting out criminals and unsanctioned religions who might still be hiding within the body of the Imperium long after the crusade had passed.
Does anyone know the name of the music that plays at the beginning?
So which primarch do you think think assumed roles they weren't made for?
what would the two missing primarchs be?
Mortarion and leman are witch hunters
What do you think the two missing primarchs’ traits/archetypes to be?
What book was it stated that Ferrus could be warmaster?
Great video, fantastic topic I haven't seen covered elsewhere yet!
Does anyone know the name of the music?
I don't buy the fact that Alpharius was the first Primarch. Let's face it, it was in a book about him, and we all know he is a liar.
So is guilliman just the redundancy to everyone?
I mean, I think it’s more that the emperor underestimated “super intelligence” as a power. Guilliman’s natural gift is his mind, but he used that mind to learn and understand everything he needed to run Ultimar and the imperium. He became the ultimate platonic emperor: a general, politician, warrior, scholar, etc.
Hence why Horus had to do everything in his power to keep him from the frontline and why he was the natural choice as regent following the heresy. Hell, it’s even stated in one book that when the emperor found Ultramar, Guilliman’s empire was as large and powerful as the imperium, and it was only big-G’s humility that lead to him bowing before big-E. There’s a universe where the imperium gets absorbed into the Kingdom of Ultramar and not the other way around.
You forgot erased categories
People often say that Lionel Johnson Could body Lemmen Russ. But they failed to Realize that Russ and Johnson fought for days with no advantages from either side until Russ realized how stupid this was and laughed about and the Lion with his feels of offense knocked out a laughing Russ that gave Johnson the fight. If the Wolf was dedicated to taking out the Lion, the duel would've ended in a draw of both of them killing each other in a double death. Remember the Wolf King was one the few primarchs that wasn't shaken or unnerved by the Lion. I mean Russ literally fought Johnson for taking his kill out of anger, that is literally brother behavior lol
7:00 Compassion is an hability that Corvus Corax also manifested.
The lack of psychic redundant primarchs implies that a psychic primarch belonged to one of the erased legions
Wasnt mortarion and magnus psykers?
Edit.
My dumbass got confused
Magnus..yes..perturabo....wellllll he was a type of psycho@@xzenitramx666
Or both
Mortarion is second in psychic power among primarch if i am not wrong.
And All all the primarch have psychic ability no matter how weak because of what they are made of. Self denial not included (Guillaman).
Lorgar becomes a psychic beast during Heresy.
Never forget, Magnus the Red doesn't have a redundancy.
Officially.
Could have been 2nd or 11th
@@hardyboy7408thats his point...
Lorgar's psychic might rivals Magnus, and they both love acquiring knowledge, its entirely reasonable that Lorgar could have sat the Throne
Apparently Guilleman had some sizable Psyker potential so he might be the redundancy for Magnus.
Especially if Prospero is any indication of the kinds of worlds the thousand sons can make.
@@DINOROAR2912I disagree. Lorgar was seen as the weakest of the primarchs until he was buffed by chaos going into the Horus heresy. It’s a chaplain vs a librarian
The difference between the stealthy legion can be summed up as
Raven guard: you dont see them and you dont know they're there
Night Lords: you dont see them but you KNOW they're there
Alpha legion: you see them but you dont know they're there
There’s a nice short story in the Corax anthology where a loyalist night lord works with some raven guard
They leave a target alive, due to the night lord’s suggestion because the fear they have will lead them to safety, aka their base
Or something like that
Dark Angels -You see them and you KNOW they are here. But you dont know what they are up to.
@@henriquekop1762 Oh, I've read something about a lore from 1d4chan that Alpherious was quite frustrated to Lion because he doesn't know how the Lion's though or how much he knows secret about Alpherious
@@ronanchristiana.belleza9270 classic Psycho ( Alpharius/Oregon) vs Schizo (Lion) dilema.
@@kelakogreenaddict1888 "the Value of Fear" is the name of that short story, is great.
What makes Leman and Corvus work so well together as well is the fact that in the real world ravens and wolves have a symbiotic relationship which makes them amazing hunters together.
What better symbiosis do you need for war than big angry wolves charging in, while the sneaky beakies, that the enemy doesn't even know is there, outflanks them while destabilizing defenses? They're perfect
Oh yeah make sense
There’s also the fact that Odin had two ravens: thought and memory aka Huginn and Muninn.
Odin also had two wolves: Geri and Freki
Ravens will also play with young pups as well. It's pretty awesome seeing two animals essentially be great friends
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus how much did we know about wolves and ravens working together? Because the Norse might've known before us, or they just got lucky
The idea that Angron and Vulcan were designed for the same purpose but one is an example of a broken version of the tool is very interesting.
It also helps out The Emperor's seemingly inexplicable behavior on Nuceria. He came looking for his healer paragon and found a rabid dog instead. He stole Angron away and doomed his companions because he didn't care about Angron's loyalty. As far as He was concerned Angron was a broken tool, usable only as bludgeon before being disposed of.
We see the same thing with Mortarion and Magnus. Magnus was already easily the third psyker in the Imperium when found.
Mortarion is incredibly powerful, but hated and suppressed his psychic nature so hard that it twisted and broke him. When found the Emperor didn't even bother trying to fix or help him. Too much work and resources. He already had Magnus. So the Emperor stole Mortarion's vengeance and used him as the destroyer he had become.
I think Angron was supposed to fulfill Sanguinius's role, and vice versa. Think about it. Look at their genetic traits.
Angron: Psychically empathetic. Unifier. Heals with just words and touch.
Sanguinius: Fangs. Bloodlust, desire to kill. Premonition, capable of seeing the future.
One was clearly designed to be a weapon and the other less so. It was their nature. Yet, their raising (their nurturing) made them into the opposite. Angron got the Nails, Sanguinius was raised saving people.
The empath became the butcher and the butcher became the empath.
@The_Libationist I agree. It could explain why Emps was so cold to Angron; he already found Vulcan, a Perpetual and with a strong moral compass, and Sanguinius, the “perfect” one. He didn’t need Angron at that point, though I wish he tried to rehabilitate him.
he also had sanguineous aswell still left
@@moderndavinci6599 and that's why both of them are broken.
A big one to the “modern” world of 40k is “The Author.” Both Lorgar and Guilliman valued recording their own thoughts and experiences for the sake of posterity and both wrote singular texts that their perspective sides would become obsessed with over the millennia
Imperium became obsessed with both of their books
thank you, he forgotten Rob. I was like "what about Guilliman?"
Yeah, I'd put them both under "Empire building" above and beyond straight conquest, with Lorgar reshaping cultures and Guilliman shaping the logistical systems Empires ran on.
@@maltheri9833 and both primarchs now cringe at the extent to which people follow them. The eternal curse of being a writer lmao, you all ways end up seeing nothing but flaws in your work given enough time.
Oh yes, and both primarchs pondered what they could be outside of generals. And neither was especially into fighting for its own sake. And they both led large generalist legions whose only strength was working with non-Astartes. Had always assumed that was why the Emperor took Guilliman to Monarchia. Lorgar could never be The Lion or Ferrus, but I think to Big E he was like “you are supposed to be like him!”
Primarchs 2 and 11 shared the trait of sassing their Dad.
i think one of their cases was described as a tragedy and the other as a delivery of justice or prevention of greater evil or smt like that idk
Redundancy in warfare is very important! Backup systems that don't fundamentally change how your military operates when things break down are good things.
"2 is 1 and 1 is none" -My Platoon Sgt literally any time we prepared for anything
@@dagand0 people look at me crazy for saying that, 2 is 1 and 1 is none and you never have only one plan with no back up.
Yes I bring 3 of anything I need with me.
It should also be noted on the Dorn v Perturabo bit that Perturabo had plans for construction, infrastructure, and architecture that could have easily rivaled Dorn but, had always pushed back and delayed his plans because the needs of the crusade in his eyes were more important. Tear it all down, make it ugly but, fast and effective now and when we're all done we can come back and make it beautiful
I'm sure Perty would say that. Would that turn out? Pretty skeptical. Especially if it's his version of magnificence.
@@TheEarlofManwhich Seeing Dorn garbage fortress failed to keep traitors out and ended with Emperor needing to do suicide run while Perturabo's would obliterate the whole Fist legion if Ultramarines didn't arrive with massive force to bail them out, pretty much, yes. I especially like how Dorn was so dumb to let his fortress become completely useless and fail when someone breaks to the center of it while Perturabo was smart (and troll) enough to make center just one massive kill zone with taunting messages while real multiply redundant HQs and fallback areas were safely moving where enemy wasn't...
@@KuK137what do you mean garbage? If you didn’t notice the casualties on the Traitors side were obscene, 6 traitor legions, 3 of which were at full strength mind you and all good at attack and sieging vs 3 loyalist and only 1 that was suited for defence and the Custodes but they were busy and at the lowest numbers they ever had been and ever would be.
Not to mention that by the end of the seige, Terra was literally being pulled into the Warp by the large amount of warp energies
The white scars were outriders whilst the blood angels were shock assault yet Dorn managed to hold the traitors off long enough for the remaining dark angels and ultramarines to get close enough to get Horus panicked.
By that estimate Dorn did extremely well.
@@lachlanevans5013 all this Iron Warrior love has gotten a little out of control. The IW were important, but they were about as competent as the Imperial Fists and their biggest virtue among the traitors was being the traitor legion least hight in warp juice. Not literally insane and literally not lobotomized, just look at the night lords and world eaters, their incompetence was _mostly_ out of their control (and the Thousand sons were pretty useful for a legion comprised of 6 survivors and 3/4 of a primarch).
@@leandrocastello309 I’m not dissing the Iron warriors they’re my second favourite traitor legion(after the sons of Horus) I’m just defending the Dorn and the Imperial fists.
I think you missed a very important narrative connection between Jaghatai and Corax. They are the Liberators. They both waged war against tyrants, despised some of more authoritarian brothers(Horus), both are extremely perceptive and free-willed
That could go for alot more primarchs narrative wise tho
But then what about angron?
You can argue that Mortarion is also a liberator at his core. In a more twisted way than Corax ofc
@@angelmochi9630 Angron got a narrative arc of a liberator, but he failed at it miserably, because he was not built to be one, at least that what I believe
From what I remember Horus was one of the Primarchs Jaghatai could get along with. Also Corax didn't like Horus not because he was more Authoritarian but because he tended to misuse his Legion in his eyes.
There's something to be said about pre-fall Fulgrim that is often forgotten, in that he also was a primarch of industry and perhaps even statecraft; he arrived on the miserable, dying world of Chemos, through efforts exponentially bettered the life of everyone on that world, and didn't keep it as some savage place to keep as recruitment pool of hardy folks for his legion like so many of his brothers did. He made it a thriving and vibrant place. I wish we got to see Chemos in the HH series. His approach is that of the charismatic politician and diplomat, in a way that complete Guilliman's more administrative touch. His legion used to share that meticulous planning of battle aspects as well, though probably more on the tactical than strategical and logistical scale.
He also more or less had to rebuild his entire legion from the ground up, something that could relate to Magnus' journey with his own legion.
In any case, he was more than a fancy showboating duelist; he was an accomplished diplomat and a patron of the arts, something that could be shared with Sanguinius in some capacity.
Can fulgrim be thought of as the ultimate backup due to his obsession of perfecting everything?
@@GeoffryGifari Fulgrim and the Lion both were sorta "jacks of all trades" backups, as both of their legions tried to have a general grasp and mastery of all they set their minds to. The Lion's Dark Angels embody this through their wings, with the Dreadwing, the Deathwing, the Ironwing, and so forth, where each specialized division would have a mastery over a field of warfare. The Emperor's Children moreso tried to perfect almost everything they could as a whole legion. Though Dorn and Perturabo may focus on siege warfare for instance, there are instances of both the Emperor's Children and the Dark Angels both demonstrating a mastery of that particular way of war. Fulgrim at Istvaan, and the Lion in his Primarch book.
So you could say him and Gulliman were the Politicians.
The thought of all the primarchs being the middle child is so hilarious yet make so much sense.
Alpharius and Omegon are the paragons of redundancy
The secret keeper archetype applies to both the Lion and Alpharius
The technician archetype applies to Ferrus Mannus and Perterabo
The “king slayer” archetype applies to Horus and Russ
The “great warrior king” archetype applies to the Khan and Russ in the whole Great Khan/Great wolf warlord role.
Couldn’t you also argue that the Lion falls under the archetype of “Great Warrior King” as well?
I think the ability of Perturabo to see the Eye of Terror took form when his eyes gazed through the capsule's "glass" while he was being transported through the warp. He simply never forgot what the warp and its influence looks like, and could see the biggest leak of the warp into real-space.
Iirc at the beginning of the Alpharius Primarch book, it’s stated that the role Alpharius got as keeper of secrets/spymaster was not the one that was intended for them, but that changed when all the Primarchs got flung out to the Galaxy and Alpharius was the only one left on Terra.
Corvus could've be spymaster. Him being able to literally turn invisible but Alpharius being able to seem like a nobody and being a master spy is pretty much textbook definition of spymaster
@@maltheri9833 I personally think Alphi/omag were meant to be warriors. The alpha legion had some of the largest marines and despite having his power literally split in two Alphi/Omag were still not the weakest prime arch. Something else that is interesting is that despite being a spy he still craved glory and sought battles of martial prowess something which would have been disadvantageous in a spy and stealthy fighter.
When in doubt just assume a non redundant Primarch is that way because the 2nd and 11th are dead and forgotten