David Owen: A radical life

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 114

  • @Cotictimmy
    @Cotictimmy หลายเดือนก่อน +33

    I still watched an awful lot of BBC politics coverage back in 2016. I was stunned to discover post Referendum that David Owen was for Brexit because he believed (as I did) that the E.U. had become far too authoritarian and anti-democratic in its behaviour. I've come to think think the BBC was an active campaigner for 'Remain', & where possible it deliberately avoided platforming major pro Brexit figures whose contributions might carry weight. Mervin King would be another example. From being a huge BBC fan in past decades, I now see The BBC as a bad & untrustworthy actor and hardly watch & listen to it any more.

    • @pseudonayme7717
      @pseudonayme7717 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Hope you are sitting comfortably, because I'm a lefty who totally agrees, on the BBC and on the EU.

  • @deethy19
    @deethy19 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Contempt for Farage is ultimately contempt for those people desperate for change. Rather than engage he is blinkered by his own ideology. Talk about hubris….🤔

  • @FraserBailey-jm5yz
    @FraserBailey-jm5yz หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    The poor old chap seems to think that a) we still have some weapons to give Ukraine and b) we are still capable of making weapons to give to Ukraine.

    • @alphabetaxenonzzzcat
      @alphabetaxenonzzzcat หลายเดือนก่อน

      As well as the fact that the Ukrainian situation is largely the West's fault, giving what happened in the 2014 coup.

    • @pseudonayme7717
      @pseudonayme7717 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      He's also unlikely to be aware of exactly WHO we are giving those weapons to.

  • @BillViall
    @BillViall หลายเดือนก่อน +27

    44 minutes in, constant talk about helping the poor, yet neither mentions immigration? How is that conceivable?

    • @alphabetaxenonzzzcat
      @alphabetaxenonzzzcat หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The elephant in the room that very few people actually want to touch.

    • @starfrost6816
      @starfrost6816 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Because immigrants aren't the problem.

    • @frederickmiles327
      @frederickmiles327 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      The whole point of Owens proposed massive nuclear power programme and expanded NHS free health on the never promoted by Drs and Shrinks proven to have been wrong about everything was to provide the power, jobs, health care treatment and detention for the waves of Black Commonwealth and assorted others they wanted in this new equalist utopia of state planners and Dr Owen.

  • @pedanticlady9126
    @pedanticlady9126 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    This is not the David Owen I remember. He had the potential to become an outstanding PM.
    Imho, the interview started in entirely the wrong place.
    The original SDP ultimately came about because of the
    "Winter of Discontent" under The Premiership of James Callaghan.
    That, in its turn, was the culmination of over a decade of events from the mid/late sixties and on through the seventies.
    The swinging between Labour and Conservative governments under Harold Wilson and Edward Heath.
    The huge devaluation of the pound. So much so that we could not take more than £50 out of the country, on holiday abroad.
    Our joining of the EEC (European Economic Community), which at the time only consisted of France, Germany, Italy, and the 3 Benelux countries... and which, together with Ireland and Demark, took it to 9 members.
    The "Oil Crisis". The power cuts. The empty supermarket shelves. Food shortages. The 3 day week.
    Inflation reaching 25% by the mid seventies.
    The Liberal Party at this time was enjoying its own personality leadership scandal through Jeremy Thorpe. A busted flush in terms of electorability.
    The huge rise in militant Union action! The miner's strikes.
    All these events led to the 1979 election of Margaret Thatcher.
    In turn, her strong arm methods of dealing with the events of the Winter of Discontent, and Strikers, made her a hated figure.
    Meantime, the Labour Party had elected Michael Foot as its Leader. A pleasant, well-meaning academic chap, steeped in the ideology of the working class labour poor (almost to a communist degree) and peace at any cost.
    So, it looked like the country had a choice between the proverbial "devil and the deep blue sea."
    This was some of the background to the setting up of the SDP by the "Gang of Four" in 1981.
    The succesful operation of the Falklands War however, changed the outcome of the General Election of 1983.
    The SDP ran a joint campaign with the Liberal Party as the "Alliance Party". Winning over 25% of the electoral vote, but under FPTP only 23 seats.
    I voted for SDP in 1983. But they disappeared as an electoral force when they amalgamated with the Liberal Party.
    The Labour Party were taken over for a while in the eighties by the 'Militant Tendency' group, but Neil Kinnock managed to kick them out. But he never held office.
    Labour were out of office from 1979 to 1997. When they made it back under the leadership of Tony Blair. Supposedly espousing the 'Third Way'.
    I found this interview sad and disturbing.

  • @miraforeman7567
    @miraforeman7567 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    God help us 8 years of Starmer

    • @hazelwray4184
      @hazelwray4184 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Ten years of Tories and now Starmer. God help us, indeed.

  • @andykerr4180
    @andykerr4180 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    It's all very giving weapons but who does the dieing mostly working class people who have little input into policy.

  • @Hellish2050
    @Hellish2050 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    It is a shame that the Lib Dems seem not to believe in liberalism or democracy. Democracy - if they believed in it they would have accepted the EU referendum result, rather than demanding another referendum. Liberalism - an article on the Lib Dem website claimed that Is lam is liberal!

  • @jawaharsolai4303
    @jawaharsolai4303 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Impressed with David Owen’s personality, sharp & articulate for his age. His explanation of the Rwanda & immigration question was right on the money. Overall enjoyed the interview

  • @newstartt99
    @newstartt99 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    I don't criticise Freddie for seeking this interview, but I found it hard to watch. I've spent time with older people whose memories have been turned into swiss cheese by a stroke or dementia; they are very skilful in covering the holes by talking about what they can remember, even when it is a complete non-sequitur. I don't know David or his medical history and I wish him no ill, but there were too many instances here of similar behaviour to put it down to politician-style dodging the question. Time and again Freddie bravely asks him to talk about policy and he answers with personal anecdote that is off-point.

    • @donaldwebb
      @donaldwebb 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      I think that's rubbish. Some extra consideration and patience have to be given to someone aged 86, but he is still pretty good for his age. And there is no reason not to interview people past a certain age

  • @markgollop3726
    @markgollop3726 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The one bit of British political history I did get to witness was on the very day the SDP was formed. That evening, David Owen came to speak in Taunton. I was there. Sad that such a great opportunity in transforming our political landscape ended up slipping away.

  • @harri2626
    @harri2626 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I was a founder member of the SDP. I admired Owen during this early period, but when he decided not to accept the SDP/Liberal Alliance and formed a breakaway SDP, I lost faith in him. This was the death knell for any third party success as it diluted the anti-Tory/Labour vote.

    • @hazelwray4184
      @hazelwray4184 หลายเดือนก่อน

      What was the point, either way? - Cameron, Orange Book Liberals, Blairite's; it's all the same and increasingly rejected by the European electorate. Macron is deeply unpopular, so too is Starmer.

  • @NorfolkSceptic
    @NorfolkSceptic หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Did they mention anything about the Minsk Agreements, or discuss why Germany didn't implement it?

    • @matthewk9504
      @matthewk9504 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      He actually did in a past interview. Owen actually quoted George Kennan at the time when Russia annexed Crimea saying the West should stay out and that NATO should not expand and that this would set a dangerous precedent.
      Unfortunately I do think age has caught up with him a bit. Search up "David Owen Crimea" I remember there being a very good interview with him making these points. Well worth a watch.

  • @FraserBailey-jm5yz
    @FraserBailey-jm5yz หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    There is little hope for a country in which Boris Johnson is considered to be a huge talent;.

    • @jeremybiggs8413
      @jeremybiggs8413 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      He was never considered a great talent by anyone. He was popular by the public because he was seen as an outsider to the career politician / technocrat set.

    • @andrejota1151
      @andrejota1151 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      His talent was convincing everyone that he is a huge talent.

    • @pseudonayme7717
      @pseudonayme7717 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@jeremybiggs8413 In spite of him actually being an obvious establishment insider.
      We need less Etonians in our politcial class. 100% less.

    • @Sean-p3o
      @Sean-p3o 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Or Blair

  • @Icosindaba
    @Icosindaba หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks. David Owen has been a very helpful advisor to me personally in helping me understand the Hubris Syndrome in my dealing with politicians and CEO's in South Africa. I was privileged to host him in South Africa in 1979 after Thatcher ousted his government. He came to my university to deliver the annual Academic Freedom Lecture. Good to be reminded of those days and his consummate skill as a politician.

  • @djonfonsteen6331
    @djonfonsteen6331 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Radical? 😂 Jeez, he's about as Radical as a crumpet.

  • @andrewbaldwin4454
    @andrewbaldwin4454 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Does Owen really dislike the expanded EU because it includes Slovaks who he thinks love Putin?
    When he promoted the Owen-Stoltenberg Plan for Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1993 Owen had a realistic understanding of the very different interests of the Croat, Serb and Bosniak communities within the republic. Now he takes quite a different attitude towards Ukraine, and is unwilling to recognize that the Russophone population in the Donbas at least no longer want to be governed by Kyiv.

  • @guillaumedechambre9138
    @guillaumedechambre9138 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Completely out of touch with realities of war or the situation in Britain.

    • @andrejota1151
      @andrejota1151 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Nothing about the energy security, the huge debt and inflation. No mention of immigration either.

    • @andrejota1151
      @andrejota1151 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      But lots to be optimistic about 😂

  • @nicholasredding218
    @nicholasredding218 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    And David is right Roy blew us up

  • @mb3503-o4e
    @mb3503-o4e หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have never found Doctor Owen greatly logical even going back to the “gang of four” days when the media and public attempted to discern what they actually believe

  • @briandelaney9710
    @briandelaney9710 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    As Michael Foot said of him
    “Sometimes macho isn’t mucho “

  • @williamsnowden8186
    @williamsnowden8186 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Goodness. What a love in.

  • @perperson199
    @perperson199 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    One of the most intelligent persons in British public life the last 50-60 years.

  • @nicholasredding218
    @nicholasredding218 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I joined the SDP when it launched and was involved in leafleting when I felt there was a great chance. So disappointed. However not sufficient liftoff sadly

  • @Afrosaxonn
    @Afrosaxonn หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nothing radical about Owen. He's had his bum in the butter his whole life. His 'third way' is distorted by a luxury bubble.

  • @jamesmiddleton1278
    @jamesmiddleton1278 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    MI6 Iraq desk did not have any evidence of wmd, at least 2 weeks before kick off.

  • @alvinfelzenberg6549
    @alvinfelzenberg6549 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Terrific interview

  • @FraserBailey-jm5yz
    @FraserBailey-jm5yz หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Owen was certainly a significant figure, and undoubtedly possessed of far greater stature and intelligence than contemporary politicians (not difficult...). He went on a similarly journey to me in the sense that he was one once very pro-EU, but ended up supporting Brexit.

    • @alphabetaxenonzzzcat
      @alphabetaxenonzzzcat หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Yeah - I was impressed when he came out for Brexit, as having previously been so very pro-EU.

  • @doyle6000
    @doyle6000 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks

  • @glennmitchell9107
    @glennmitchell9107 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    War ending negotiations don't fall out of the sky. Such negotiations are a result of "facts on the ground." One side or the is forced by military or political circumstances to enter negotiations. The side forcing the negotiation is the victor and sets the terms of the other side's surrender. Negotiations are never neutral bargaining events. This is not flea market dickering. The stakes are much, much greater.

    • @hazelwray4184
      @hazelwray4184 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Daniel Davis deep dive
      Neutrality Studies
      Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft
      Alexander Mercouris
      Judge Napolitano

  • @dcgames8575
    @dcgames8575 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I can't see Freddie working on a building site like Lord Owen.

  • @glennmitchell9107
    @glennmitchell9107 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I want to think for myself, but first I have to hear what Unherd thinks.

  • @johnbuchan4664
    @johnbuchan4664 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think he would be in Reform if he was 40 years younger what a brilliant mind

  • @ogazm1865
    @ogazm1865 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    The calibre of politician such as Lord Owen is unimaginable now.
    Thanks both 👍

  • @DavidJosephism
    @DavidJosephism หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Great man. I didn't realise it was Jenkins who bggrd up the SDP! Long live the current incarnation of the SDP under William Clouston.

  • @nuttall47
    @nuttall47 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    He was right about the merger with the Liberals, all the people I joined ,and worked with, left. Find his comments on this Labour government very strange, they are authoritarian and I can't think of one of them I look up to.

  • @antonyliberopoulos933
    @antonyliberopoulos933 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Thank you Lord Owen, thank you Freddie! Politics is a complex art, and this discussion proved it.

  • @Wo8910
    @Wo8910 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You can’t make good decisions without having a lot of information. Critical thinking can’t be done without it. In America, to get information, one must dig and ignore newspapers and main stream media

  • @adamsmith3242
    @adamsmith3242 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    David Owen is on the threshold of befuddlement, and it’s a great pity cause he combines a lot of good sense with a lot of experience.

  • @randygault4564
    @randygault4564 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A content-free man.

  • @hikerjoe3773
    @hikerjoe3773 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    David Owen: A modern conformist life

  • @3000waterman
    @3000waterman หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    A great mind in his time, but sadly diminished by his 86 years. I couldn't watch beyond 21:00. I'm not sure this interview was a kind idea.

  • @syddog44
    @syddog44 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Fantastic achievement of Bush in Iraq.. I'm out.

    • @FraserBailey-jm5yz
      @FraserBailey-jm5yz หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      I think he was talking about the first Gulf War, but he does seem to be a little confused about various things.

    • @baltasarnoreno5973
      @baltasarnoreno5973 หลายเดือนก่อน

      He was referring to George I and the removal of Saddam Hussein's troops from Kuwait in 1991. Nor George II and the invasion in 2003.

    • @hazelwray4184
      @hazelwray4184 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I think he was referring to the April 3rd, 1991 UN Security Council Resolution 687.

  • @JoeBeThere
    @JoeBeThere หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    “Fantastic achievement of Bush???” The man is delusional

    • @StevieAF
      @StevieAF หลายเดือนก่อน

      He's talking about the first Gulf war (1990).

    • @DavidJosephism
      @DavidJosephism หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Bush Senior

    • @JoeBeThere
      @JoeBeThere หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DavidJosephism he talks about ‘sweeping Sadam out of power’. That’s W. Tony Blair was PM from ‘97 - ‘07
      “Boris Johnson’s demise was a great tragedy for the UK?” Really this man makes the eyes roll. He’s still for Brexit. The downward spiral of the UK continues apace

    • @davidwarden4974
      @davidwarden4974 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JoeBeThere I'd have to watch the whole thing again to check but I thought he expressed a view against the Iraq war. I recall him saying years ago, early in his premiership, that Johnson could be a great PM but he did acknowledge his flaws. The rationale for leaving the EU hasn't changed. The downward spiral of the UK has little to do with Brexit. The EU is not exactly booming.

    • @baltasarnoreno5973
      @baltasarnoreno5973 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I think he was referring to George I and the removal of Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991. Not George II and the 2003 invasion.

  • @RichardEnglander
    @RichardEnglander หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    40:00 hes rather positive about Labour, seems to think they have many competent and able people.
    Does anybody agree? 😂

  • @halfdan_f
    @halfdan_f หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I did try but so many things he said were ...... deluded maybe .... I managed to endure 18.25 minutes.

  • @myhometvaccount9365
    @myhometvaccount9365 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    jeez, is there something we should know.... is boris his secret love child :)

  • @Wagtail333
    @Wagtail333 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Vain man. Never liked him. Power came to him to early and he failed. Look at those well manicured hands, that have never ever done a hard days work.

  • @andreborges2106
    @andreborges2106 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    A warmonger saying warmonger things.

  • @michaelwebb3979
    @michaelwebb3979 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I do hope Nigel is taking advice from Lord David re alignment, co-alliance etc. Do not ever trust the Conservative, no matter who is finally elected.

  • @hoop8621
    @hoop8621 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    25 minutes in and I’m still waiting for him to stop rambling and actually answer a question.

  • @LloydLaughalot
    @LloydLaughalot หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This traitor sold out the Rhodesians. Some patriot.

    • @wellyman2008
      @wellyman2008 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That was the Saffers!

    • @LloydLaughalot
      @LloydLaughalot หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@wellyman2008 suspicion was that senior figures in Labour - particularly Owen - was leaking intelligence to Mugabe. Operation Bastille in particular was something, it is believed, Owen blubbed on.

  • @SwatantraNandanwar
    @SwatantraNandanwar 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Owen should. Public opinion is usually wrong!

    • @SwatantraNandanwar
      @SwatantraNandanwar 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Bonhoffer gave an explanation of why. And Plato in his Allegory of the Cave.
      Basically, the Great British Public are ignorant.

  • @Jules-Is-a-Guy
    @Jules-Is-a-Guy หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good episode, but I would definitely tend to distinguish modern populism, from "small d" democracy.

  • @mattg6902
    @mattg6902 หลายเดือนก่อน

    DO great thinker

  • @johnmulvey5121
    @johnmulvey5121 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wish the interviewer would sound his T's

  • @frederickmiles327
    @frederickmiles327 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Essentially David Owen looked a young glamorous doctor politician in the 196Os and 70s but in reality he was a backdated relic even in 1974 who held essentially the same views as Harold Wilson in 1945 or 1955 the CP Snow view that the bofins, scientists, planners and socialist architects would create a planned new utopia for the English and Welsh working class based on British nuclear power a huge state managed national health service and state owned healfh and education. Owen was impressed by the huge nuclear power programme of the USSR, the state housing flats of the GDR, the Cuban medical system and doctors ( one would be staggered to find even in the blinkered blackwater of kiwilland even 30/40 years ago many doctors thought the Cuban medical system and planed NK industrial system ideal for NZ/UK. The truth of course these. So called socialist model features of the GDR, Cuba and NK were a soviet propoganda exercise paid for by the USSR till 1991 to con the suckers in the west. Owen was like Jobn Stonehouse and Micheal Foot a classic case of British elite ivory town convergence with Soviet thinking and Soviet con.

  • @just_another32
    @just_another32 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    fascinating !

  • @pvorster8042
    @pvorster8042 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Sorry, two monumental egos

  • @frederickmiles327
    @frederickmiles327 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    More than anybody alive, truth and the historical record requires David Owen to face a long hard interview covering his long political career in which like David Lloyd George he was potentially and quite close to seizing the top office in the country for three political parties.
    Harold Wilson and Micheal Foot remained in the HC, after losing high office to attack Owen who they considered had betrayed them as Labour leader or personally or otherwise. In the two 1974 elections Owens victory in his Plymouth seat was obviously vital to Labour returning and holding power and as he now concedes it is hardly surprising that David Owen, positioned himself almost as far right as the Tory ultra right Portsmouth MP Alan Clark. Two years before Owen in 1972 had
    feed and supported Scargill and his Soviet supported National miners flying pickets from David Owens limehouse flat.
    And how does David Owen, UK Navy Sec in 1968 ( a year RN SSN and diesel subs were increasingly challenged and even detected by the Soviet Navy and later Foreign Sec in Nuclear Defence (2012), Chancellor of Liverpool Uni, David Owen, sees fit to publish redacted info on UK nuclear targets broadly Moscow, St Petersburg, Baku and surrounding oil towns and targets around Murmansk and Archangel. This inform
    ation opened issues as to whether UK strategic targeting was tactical and war fighting rather than city strike mass destruction deterrence.
    How does Dr Owen defend his years of partying with Milosovich and 12 years ad CEO of Yukos Putins Russian Steel Company and not noticing before 2014 the direction of travel of Putin and Russia in those days.

  • @pvorster8042
    @pvorster8042 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Another egomaniac

  • @gravitaslost
    @gravitaslost หลายเดือนก่อน

    We're not supposed to have any?

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