I would like to thank Lord Sumption for voicing his opinion during the Covid debacle. His was a deeply valued message; one that helped me draw my own personal 'lines in the sand'. Thankyou.
Initially, I would agree with you. But then I heard him in an interview saying he supported vaccine mandates. I’m afraid I lost respect at that point. I wish someone would ask him if he still feels vaccine mandates were appropriate.
thanks, good question for him, didn't recall that, i may look up his reasoning but i think he did well, he probably had the idea that transmission would be effected although those were claims were not scientifically supported but commonly believed, in the first few months of the vaxx rollout. good point.@@karenfriesen280
This man is brilliant. He can draw from a vast reservoir of meticulous scholarly ideas and synthesize them in a poetic and concise way that is easy to understand.
Lord Sumption was the first to speak out publicly about the covid outrage. Many have followed, particularly Andrew Bridgen. Heroes one and all who will go down in history as such.
Such a wonderful conversation with a brilliant individual! Thank you Unheard for bringing Lord Sumption on. I was one of those many individuals who felt a sense of relief and gratitude that such an eminent historian had the same opinions on lockdowns
No, the reason Trump was elected was because the vast proportion of the people want the administrative state gone. The UK is naive to the degree to which decline will be destructive.
The reason for that is, like all who dared to suggest that locking the population down was a bad idea, he was demonised and closed down by our lords and masters
Bit of a disappointment, to be honest. Arguing that we should leave the Human Rights convention because it is now abused by politicised judges (correct) but thinks it would be good to rejoin the EU (illogical)! Amazed that he even thinks the EU will still be in existence a few decades from now....
Wow is that so, he would like to re-join the EU, that in itself is un-constitutional just like it was originally in 1973. No government has the power to give the authority of the realm away to another power whether that be a pope or any other foreign influence. I was going to listen to the podcast but now I think what's the point, if he thinks that then he doesn't understand common law or the constitution.
He is actually correct at both of these things!! The success of Brexit is highly connected with the existence of the EU. So while the EU exists we must be aligned in a degree so that we are not marginalized from the continent!!😉
Thank's so much for this briliant talk I'm always astonished by the fact that all the concerns you might have in UK are exactly the same discussed here in France
Superb choice of guests on this channel. Lord Sumption is always worth listening to even when I disagree with some of his conclusions. Ed: ‘The great destroyer of civil society is the disappointment of entrenched expectations’. The power of words!
Looking forward to this. If anyone's brutally interested in hard-core expertise on the history of violence, the Art of War and its influence in world history I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's videos series. Especially I suggest the Traditional religion content, that is at the end of the day pure strategy in political insight
I'd recommend David Irving, he's fluent in German and writes much more accurate accounts on the Second World War than the majority. He also went to painstaking lengths to obtain documents and communications that others simply couldn't or wouldn't.
Hope you're as disappointed as I was. I liked him for his commentary on covid, but his comments here on Brexit, Trump & Israel are just the same ol bigoted, snotty English toff rubbish that in no small way contributed to many of our current global issues
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. - Major General Smedley Butler
Two observations. One, the EU may well not exist in the future. Two, during war, if one side disregards international law (e.g use a civilian shield) during the conflict, what is the otherside supposed to do, lose?
I would like to hear his own views of the Julian Assange case and the removal of Habeas Corpus from British Law. Those that are presently sitting seem to dismiss the case for Julian.
A more flexible constitution might soften the impact of decline in America. But it is in large part thanks to America's inflexible contitution that it has excelled in absolute and relative terms during its 250 year history. It is a brilliant product of The Founders that recognizes inaliable rights. It is a not a "fair weather contitution." It is one that says that human rights cannot be disregarded for reasons of convenience. It is designed to keep the tyrants at bay. Lord Sumption should appreciate more than most why that is crucial.
Biden's successes are so evident they need not to be mentioned unless to a completely blind: - Transfer of military equipment to Taliban; - Putin's invasion into Ukraine; - Chinese balloon celebration; - Funding Iran; - Armenian genocide 2.0; - Attack on Israel. The only question if he manages to sell Taiwan before his second term or during it...
Sumption in his support for withdrawing from the EHCR effectively undermines his support for the UK remaining in and returning to the EU. Particular EU rules and regs were never the problem in and of themselves. It was where they were made, who made them on whose behalf and how ultimately accountable to an electorate they were. The ECHR charter he says he 100% agrees with is basically a load of unelected, unaccountable, essentially anonymous judges constantly reinterpreting and adding to a preagreed by its signatories set of established principles ie not necessarily upholding them. Like the EU, it's classic mission creep whereby an institution is constantly seeking to find ways of consolidating and/or extending its powers for its own self-serving reasons. This contradiction is further undermined by his view on being opposed to having a one size fits all pandemic policy legally imposed by a supranational body like the WHO.
How is it possible to engage with his thoughts and not node with a cheerful agreement “or not in some cases” and not respect him. Lord Sumption Is Uk intellectual most venerated and much needed voice among us . Thank you sir for your service.
I like Lord Sumption but did anyone else notice how he avoided the intra-national/WEF question and the language he used to dismiss Donald Trump? I didn't like either.
The Trump deranged are mentally incapable of acknowledging reality. eg; that since “this particularly monstrous individual” was removed from power we have widespread economic downturn, widespread burning of coal again, and two nuclear powers fighting two bloody wars with escalation a constant threat … 🤔
Maybe it is you who has suffered from the views of the BBC and the US media. Can you imagine how life would be had Clinton got in and carried out the agenda of the swamp.
Agreed. As someone who seems to have well rounded and thoughtful responses it was rather stunning to hear such a shallow and poorly formulated take on Trump. TDS is a very powerful drug... usually affects intellectuals rather intensely.
Yes, its quite astounding really, like a mind virus. Its all down to an intense personal dislike of one individual, spun relentlessly by the mainstream media. Lets ignore all of what happened (or didnt happen) during the 4 years he was in the Whitehouse, and also ignore the current incumbents continuing destruction of the economy and warmongering. At least the yanks have a choice, the UK is done whoever you vote for @@dnormore1814
He is a great intellect but he is not always right in my humble opinion. Would love to see him in a discussion with David Starkey and Thomas Sowell. Freedom of speech and respect for the procedural disappears as different cultural attachments exist at number in the borders of a single state.
Augustine was discussing concepts of "just and unjust war" in tbe 4th century, and in the 7th Adomnán of Iona successfully promulgated the Lex Innocentium protecting non-combatants. Were these debates completely absent in the 14th century? Seems unlikely.
Yes, that was my view too, Bewilderedbrit. His argument for keeping the UK in the EU was couched in military terms, but the EU is not a military alliance. Britain has never left Europe in terms of military and security concerns. It is still a member of NATO and the OSCE. It doesn't provide troops for a European army because there is no European army to join. I'm a Canadian, so I can't say I follow European events closely, but the UK got a very bad steer when Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown replaced the RPIX as the target inflation indicator of the Bank of England with the UK HICP in order to conform with the European Central Bank, whose target inflation indicator was the HICP for the euro area. The RPIX had house prices in it; the HICP doesn't, and a few years later Britain suffered a housing boom and bust. It would have been OK if Eurostat had, as planned, incorporated an owner-occupied housing component based on the net acquisitions approach, but it has been studying that since 2000 and still hasn't made the change. The EU appears to be a sclerotic institution, incapable of making necessary reforms.
Congratulations to Lord sumption . He appears to have came out from the past three years , not only relatively emotionally unscathed but one might argue ,if as it appears albeit rather unintentionally , slightly richer but certainly in the his social profile does appear to have profited ( not unlike Jordan Peterson ) . I however , as a self employed carpenter still have to deal with conditions imposed upon myself by local councils and suppliers alike . Behaviour patterns amongst my immediate surroundings have now become ingrained and those that were once willing to completely deny me ( this being the socialist superstate that calls itself liverpool ) of my livelihood, now continue to act as if such a tragedy never happened.
The problem is that we no longer make a distinction between good me evil! All opinions seem to have the same equal powers! Our distance from Judie-Christian morals is what is causing this chaos! We fight evil but no longer can distinguish what evil is!
Always a pleasure to listen to Lord Sumption. In a previous interview, believe he mentioned something alone the line of his relative suffering a decline in dementia due to closures on theatre and life, etc. Wish you had asked him on some of his difficult judicial decisions in his career. 😊 Although there's people saying that he didn't say anything new, find Lord Sumption's views largely of a reasonable nature. Thanks. X
His word wasn’t consistent or realistic … where’s that wall he said he would build ? He didn’t do the maths … he doesn’t believe in maths. He’s a narcissist, he believes in himself …
The so-called wall is a convenient political football in the US much like the NHS is in the UK. Frequently stymied by US politics, in fact Trump ended up replacing much of the deteriorating already existing wall rather than adding to it significantly. That 'wall' was often fencing and was even being contributed to by the sainted Obama and various presidents before that. It continues to be added to by O'Biden today, albeit against his pledge not to do so, thanks to an earlier Trump presidential pledge.
He couldn't do 'the maths'... Trump was stymied by every conceivable roadblock... from the uni party types, an uncooperative congress who have the purse strings and vilified at every turn by the establishment and MSM. They hated this outsider who was the vinegar in their old boys network wine.... and it continues to this day. They fear him cause he wants to break up their in house corruption and will go to any length to stop him.
I wish there was time to ask him about the expansion of ULEZx. Is it really the expansion of the medievalist City of London CO’s jurisdiction? Is it that the 1 square mile became too small and new forms of revenue were needed? I’m curious.
A privilege to hear a learned person like Lord Jonathan Sumption generously share his thoughts on a range of topics in a humble style. He gets my vote for influence at the National Trust. I now feel stimulated to read one if his books but am not ready for The Hundred Years tome so might try Pilgrimage. Thank you Jonathan and Freddie.
Yet he judges Hamas as unorganised without resources. They receive billions of dollars from the international community, and build hundreds of kilometres of tunnels under sandy ground, and can fire thousands of rockets at the Jews while their leaders live in luxury in Qatar planning their strategy at a safe distance. Sounds very organised to me and overflowing with resources. Yet somehow can’t organise resources for the people there to have water and electricity, despite having a border with Egypt, and a seaport to the Mediterranean. Access to which allowed several countries to build the Bronze Age civilisation more than 3,000 years ago.
Have always been impressed by Lord Sumption on Lockdown & many other subjects. However I felt regarding the discussion about recent protests here regarding events in Palestine & Israel a sense of disappointment at the limited time given to such a matter of grave concern for both sides.
Same here. I'm amazed that a mind such as his focused only the legitimacy of Israel's actions, not the attack that caused it. You can criticise it in isolation, but what other nation would tolerate what happened? I suspect most countries would react similarly. But when Isreal does it, somehow more special criticism is warranted.
Basically we have advanced with amazing technology over the last century but in reality we still have a dark age mentality. Sadly, looking around, I see nothing in the world that challenges that view of modern society.
Could have done with some discussion of the future impact of Islamic doctrine on the polity of the U.K. Given its large and growing presence. And its very anti the sorts of political economy which Lord Sumption et. al. (and me) support. He talks of immigration and the nation state, around 52 minutes, but without recognition that the current levels are mostly from cultures which are inimical our liberal principles and not given to becoming part of the local culture.
I would want to know why mr Sumption is so adamant against trump. In terms of domestic and foreign USA policies Not re some really awful speeches especially first part of his term
Trump doesn’t really have “policies” … he’s a talker - says whatever needed to gain popularity - but did he ever deliver ? Where’s the wall he built to close the Mexican border once & for all ?
Yes, I would like to know as Chamath Pslisticva, a liberal turning now centre, said in his podcast about tru, “ we didn’t like the messenger so we killed the message “ message that now turned to be right
Surely not right about this - that the British boundary, for security purposes, is on the Rhine was comprehensively disproved in the Wars of the Spanish Succession, the Napoleonic war, the First world war and Hitler's War. It may well have been in the mediaeval period. Also British foreign policy sensible? How can that be right? The preservation of the Empire by any possible means was driven by greed, it led to many disastrous events, not least the First World War, it failed catastrophically, and can be seen in retrospect to be entirely bankrupt and illusory.
Well spoken and entertaining to listen to. However, too Anglocentric. I'm surprised to hear that he thinks UK could have influenced EU to be less federalist and he does not recognize that EU is on a downward trajectory. The bureaucratic EU cannot operate well during non-peacetimes, talk about a "fair weather" institution. The US is far more robust and flexible than he gives credit. It has survived through more than just the 1930s and 1860s. More importantly, the US unlike UK has not even come close to maximizing its natural resources.
@amandawang6991: “too Anglocentric”: not really a surprise, that’s the appeal for me, an interview inside the UnHerd Club, St James’s, City of Westminster, with Jonathan Sumption now a Lord, one time an English Barrister, also the interviewer and Co founder of UnHerd the excellent Freddie Sayers.
He presumes that EU will still exist in the coming decades. Interesting. And his comment about supra-national forces is surprising, given the audacity & power of WHO, WEF & UN this decade.
43:28 how is the EU ruling all of continental Europe any different to say Germany ruling continental Europe? It is delusional to think we ever “had a say”.
These are fine interviews, but we need to hear from more people that are not from the ruling class mindset. They're always wishy-washy about everything, and ultimately arrive at these half-assed, unsubstantive conclusions.
I agree we need to hear more from people who don't speak with a plum in their mouth. Yes, that seems to come with "Education", but it evidently leads to resentment from so many others without the plummy accent - and who hold similar views. Example - a friend who grew up in Oldham, very working class, wouldn't give the time of day to most of the people in podcasts, like Lord Sumpton etc etc, yet holds very similar views. I wonder if this division is manipulated by activists seeking to undermine the country.
Agree that Lord Sumption is a bit too “Lordy” … the developing world, including India & China who constitute 46% of the world are kinda more important than the upper class Brit’s 🤷🏽♂️
The US (and the West) need to regain pride in wealth creation. That's Manufacturing and, yes, STEM subjects. Without that, the Arts and Humanities will wither, and the politicians' levers of power will be sticks in the ground. :)
I agree with Lord Sumption about so much but I'm puzzled by his attitude to the EU. There's a section of the population, all of similar age and educational background to Lord Sumption, and most of them retired public servants, who talk endlessly about the need to be in the EU to defend "our influence". This influence seems to be measured entirely in terms of our ability to keep France and Germany from getting too close. Before Brexit we couldn't set our own rates of VAT, or our own employment laws, we were obliged to submit ourselves to the EU's draconian privacy regulations, not to mention those ridiculous cookies popups and attempts to meddle with daylight savings time. Were we still in, we would currently be shutting farms because of a wholly fabricated "nitrogen crisis". But at least we'd have all that influence.
The EU do not dictate VAT for the member states take Ireland for example!! 😉 You have a very wrong opinion for the EU you will be surprised of how much we ACTUALLY had control of....this is one of the reasons that nothing has changed and legal and illegal immigration has gone up through the roof!!
@@chriskost7291 @chriskost7291 You are wrong. The EU requires member states to set VAT at no less than 15%. It allows certain products to be sold at 0 rates and at a lower rate. It also collects a proportion of the revenue. I don't think I mentioned immigration in my comment, but the fact that the UK has not chosen to exercise its acquired right to limit migration doesn't mean the legal situation hasn't fundamentally changed.
@@tpfrobsonable No mate again I don't know from whom you collect your data but the EU regulations for VAT are involving only 4% of the products and they are there for a good reason...don't forget that the EU regulate the signal market!! And for the immigration issue I just stated that we were behind a lot of EU regulations, this is why nothing has changed since we left and the prime example is immigration that ironically has gone UP 😂 NOT the shame, UP!! Imagine that argument from the Brexiters back in the days!!
EU VAT regulations certainly do not apply to only 4% of products. That is nonsense. The EU's own website is a good start here: "The Value Added Tax, or VAT, in the European Union is a general, broadly based consumption tax assessed on the value added to goods and services. It applies more or less to all goods and services that are bought and sold for use or consumption in the European Union."
@@tpfrobsonable Have you ever traveled to the EU mate? I have in the past 4 months gone to Germany, France and Greece...and cheese for example in all three countries had a deferent VAT percentage. So If we remove the EU entirely from the equation again the VAT will be above the minimum required because it is a huge source of money for nation states!! And again prime example here in the UK nothing has changed in 90% percent of the products and services in regard to VAT!!
As a German, I can only be envious that you’ve managed to get out of the tentacles of the EU. We’ll never leave. Germans love straitjackets and dictators. 😞
1:01:26 - Q : 1:01:46 - A : 1:02:00 - Q : 1:02:27 - A : A fair weather 1:03:09 - Destroyer of Civil Society 1:03:41 - Rigid is not best to deal with long-term decline 1:04:01 - 1:04:30 - A much more flexible constitution
I might have misunderstood this but did not Sumption say that, it is illegal to support Hamas but not illegal to support the cause that they support? Seems odd
0:56:53 the notion of applying high minded Western, Judeo-Christian ethics of war to a primitive people like the "Palestinians" (70+% approval rating for Hamas) is absurd. This is where Christianity is weak & naive, not suited for this battle of civilisation vs barbarism.
As an Irishman, Sumption's position on Brexit seems like that the ordinary British citizen should suck it & self sacrifice while the Lord Melchett types strategise about the power structures
@@duncefunce1513 as in, I'm looking at what British voters did & I admire it. Coupled with how cucked the Irish are: barely 3 decades of independence after 800 yrs & we join the EEC...
Don't worry, in times of crisis, when you're fighting on the front lines, the Lord Melchett types will be right behind you. About 35 miles behind you to be more precise.
Sure - he calls covid an overreaction - BUT if i remember correctly in another unherd interview... he was actually rather PRO vaccine passports... to the big Ooooohhhhs of anyone who heard him here. That never sat well with me.... and it would be interesting to hear whether his opinion on that has changed.
"on the whole, I don't believe that humanity changes very much. The technological possibilities which enabled them to achieve their objectives have changed quite radically, but their ambitions and their moral sensibilities haven't changed at all." - sadly, tragically, greedily, indifferently, recklessly, resource wastefully..
" Humanity doesn't change very much" . Is Johnny Sumption not only referring to humanity's penchant for war , or mankind's nature in general? Tech' progress is a given but that surely is a superficial irrelevance in this context. Note JS dodges the very real present possibility of nuclear annihilation of humanity !
Here's a ChatGPT summary: - Jonathan Sumption was a historian before becoming a lawyer and has written a definitive history of the 100 Years War. - He is the first justice of the Supreme Court to have been installed without ever having been a full-time judge. - Lord Sumption has been closely involved in the COVID experience and has stood up against what he perceived to be bad policy. - Volume 5 of his 100 Years War series was recently published. - War is crucial to the understanding of the creation of the state and human societies. - War was regarded as the norm in medieval societies and was seen as a reasonable thing to spend money on. - Joan of Arc was a 17-year-old peasant who reversed the course of the war in the space of a year. - Lord Sumption believes that nations are coming back and national self-interest is reasserting itself. - He believes that the liberal mood is receding and that we may see a more authoritarian style of government in the future. - Lord Sumption believes that the European Court of Human Rights has emancipated itself from the text of the European Convention on Human Rights. - He thinks that the Geneva Convention on Refugees was made for a different world and may no longer be fit for purpose. - Lord Sumption believes that the nation state is not inconsistent with high levels of migration. - He believes that the United States may see a major shift towards authoritarianism in the future due to its rigid constitution and decline in relative position in the world. - Lord Sumption is more optimistic about the UK's prospects due to its flexible constitution, but acknowledges that decline is still an uncomfortable experience.
All that would mean is that there was no final court of appeal beyond the Court of Appeal. So effectively the Court of Appeal would then become the Supreme Court, as in the final court of appeal. Any final court of appeal is effectively a Supreme Court, whatever name you give it.
I love this conversation . However I question if modern civilisation ( so to speak) has infact managed to live without fear and cohersiin . Let me explain myself to me and you :) …… brown black and working class people throughout the history of modern civilianisation have lived in line with the needs of the ruling civilisation due to both explicit ( Apartheid , zoning laws, laws aimed at certain ways of surviving or thriving, employment instability, class exclusion, hunger and probably others Im omitting) and implicit laws ( social mores , social acceptability, upward mobility or not) in various states of denied fear. That fear keeps people in line wether it is enacted overtly or implicitly and quietly. Either way it’s cohersive drive is felt and by some more than others. It has a further unconisous action on those who are not in any fear of contravening said laws and social mores , they see the instability of those who do not comply or fit in and they do not rock the systemic boat and even feel superior and justified in the instability that their own stability is mostly underpinned by. Because those who are unable to fit into or are subjugated for their cheap Labour etc blah blah blah and forced to do the majority of the work that keeps modern civilisation comfortable for the rest are constantly under the weight of an invisible but felt cogersion. Which is why often there’s a bit of a fuck the laws attitude in many sectors of society…… maybe? I love thinking but I know I’m not any form of scholar so …. Maybe ? Seems a good caveat to my instant and rudimentary thoughts and response to the lords assumption that mostly there has been no cohersion. Basically if you covered a minority you send a silent message to the rest no? The only difference with covid is everyone got to feel the force of fear as tool of control, in an unmasked and uncovered form.
08:16 - On 07 OCT 2023 , killing of infants , abducting elderly ? 08:29 - Theoretical qualms about killing priests & religious pilgrims & everyone else was fair game
We'll be fine, dont worry about decline! We havn,t an elected prime minister, not trying to be sinister. But please stop the mockery of pretending we're a democracy
Good Lord...is he a scientist too? There were sound scientific reasons for the lockdown. It might have helped to put the other side of the argument here. One gets a whiff of smugness on the part of interviewer and interviewed here
I would like to thank Lord Sumption for voicing his opinion during the Covid debacle. His was a deeply valued message; one that helped me draw my own personal 'lines in the sand'. Thankyou.
Lord Sumption does not regard the Iran-Iraq war as a conflict between armies…?
He seems like a likable enough character but he was also wrong - see Covid in his Wiki page
@@SPRO2007Fred "wiki" ? Serious? BwaHwahHwahwahwa.
Sumption did good work during the lockdown, thank you.
Initially, I would agree with you. But then I heard him in an interview saying he supported vaccine mandates. I’m afraid I lost respect at that point. I wish someone would ask him if he still feels vaccine mandates were appropriate.
thanks, good question for him, didn't recall that, i may look up his reasoning but i think he did well, he probably had the idea that transmission would be effected although those were claims were not scientifically supported but commonly believed, in the first few months of the vaxx rollout. good point.@@karenfriesen280
@@karenfriesen280yes, disappointing. And for me his view on Assange is a trifle hard edged.
Even a stopped clock, etc…
This man is brilliant. He can draw from a vast reservoir of meticulous scholarly ideas and synthesize them in a poetic and concise way that is easy to understand.
Great interview. Sumption has a clarity of communication that is rare.
What treat and a privilege to witness such a high level of wisdom and intelligence. Thank you.
wisdom and knowledge are typically referred as having depth of (not high level) ...depth of wisdom, depth of knowledge.
@@mgb5170shut it
@@mgb5170 Thank you 🙏
Great conversation. Lord Sumption is wonderful speaker.
That he is. Although he has some strange thoughts on the Catholic Church and abuse,
th-cam.com/video/iJ2iCdHPijM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1UUAgt6yQlnrj8Pv
Agreed.
Lord Sumption was the first to speak out publicly about the covid outrage. Many have followed, particularly Andrew Bridgen. Heroes one and all who will go down in history as such.
I would like to think so.
Thank you, Freddie - you are one of the few, decent journalists that we have.
Well done Unherd. This conversation is a breathe of fresh air.
That was a great talk with a very interesting man.
Thanks Freddie 😁
Such a wonderful conversation with a brilliant individual! Thank you Unheard for bringing Lord Sumption on. I was one of those many individuals who felt a sense of relief and gratitude that such an eminent historian had the same opinions on lockdowns
Lord Sumption is fascinating to listen to, informative, insightful and sensible - I am off to buy his books!
Me too !
No, the reason Trump was elected was because the vast proportion of the people want the administrative state gone.
The UK is naive to the degree to which decline will be destructive.
One of the few public speakers one doesn't hear enough from! Grateful to all involved
The reason for that is, like all who dared to suggest that locking the population down was a bad idea, he was demonised and closed down by our lords and masters
Bit of a disappointment, to be honest. Arguing that we should leave the Human Rights convention because it is now abused by politicised judges (correct) but thinks it would be good to rejoin the EU (illogical)! Amazed that he even thinks the EU will still be in existence a few decades from now....
Wow is that so, he would like to re-join the EU, that in itself is un-constitutional just like it was originally in 1973. No government has the power to give the authority of the realm away to another power whether that be a pope or any other foreign influence. I was going to listen to the podcast but now I think what's the point, if he thinks that then he doesn't understand common law or the constitution.
He is actually correct at both of these things!! The success of Brexit is highly connected with the existence of the EU. So while the EU exists we must be aligned in a degree so that we are not marginalized from the continent!!😉
what a great interview and Lord Sumption, what an articulate and intelligent man. Great history. thank you Freddie.
Brilliant. Thank you both. Let's hope that you both keep wearing your invisible capes.
Listening to Lord Sumption is sheer joy!!
Too right, it removes my melancholy. Lord Sumption is just the sort of person that we need in the higher echelons of government.
Thank u Freddie really great rare occasions to view such intellectual discourses
Thank's so much for this briliant talk
I'm always astonished by the fact that all the concerns you might have in UK are exactly the same discussed here in France
What a SPLENDID video - thank you.
Superb choice of guests on this channel. Lord Sumption is always worth listening to even when I disagree with some of his conclusions.
Ed:
‘The great destroyer of civil society is the disappointment of entrenched expectations’.
The power of words!
thank you, i enjoyed this conversation a lot.
Looking forward to this. If anyone's brutally interested in hard-core expertise on the history of violence, the Art of War and its influence in world history I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's videos series. Especially I suggest the Traditional religion content, that is at the end of the day pure strategy in political insight
I'd recommend David Irving, he's fluent in German and writes much more accurate accounts on the Second World War than the majority. He also went to painstaking lengths to obtain documents and communications that others simply couldn't or wouldn't.
@@microfarming8583 the jokers have entered the chat
Hope you're as disappointed as I was. I liked him for his commentary on covid, but his comments here on Brexit, Trump & Israel are just the same ol bigoted, snotty English toff rubbish that in no small way contributed to many of our current global issues
War is just a racket.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people.
Only a small inside group knows what it is about.
It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
- Major General Smedley Butler
@@faza553 or all wars are bankers wars. Or profiteering for that small supra wealthy elite. For example, who profits from the levelling of Gaza?
What a difference between Lord Sumption and the Israeli foreign minister. Lord Sumption is like a feast for my brain.
It's always a real pleasure to listen to such high brow considerations as those of an ex supreme court judge.
Thank you Lord Sumption you have been there for us from day 1 of the appalling lockdowns etc. You are a hero.
Two observations.
One, the EU may well not exist in the future. Two, during war, if one side disregards international law (e.g use a civilian shield) during the conflict, what is the otherside supposed to do, lose?
I would like to hear his own views of the Julian Assange case and the removal of Habeas Corpus from British Law. Those that are presently sitting seem to dismiss the case for Julian.
Yes he cheered me up because I felt on my own in my objections to lockdowns and mass jabbing. The lockdown was to enforce mass jabbing
Because I felt alone in my objection to ...
(estranged, alienated, disaffected).
Enjoyable informed educational discussuion.
I struggle with the audience laughter. I feel it spoils the earnestness of the conversation
I didn't submit to any restrictions, I remember peter hitchens stating the same as lord sumption, that was it for me
A more flexible constitution might soften the impact of decline in America. But it is in large part thanks to America's inflexible contitution that it has excelled in absolute and relative terms during its 250 year history. It is a brilliant product of The Founders that recognizes inaliable rights. It is a not a "fair weather contitution." It is one that says that human rights cannot be disregarded for reasons of convenience. It is designed to keep the tyrants at bay. Lord Sumption should appreciate more than most why that is crucial.
Comments on Trump, not a word about Biden?
Biden's successes are so evident they need not to be mentioned unless to a completely blind:
- Transfer of military equipment to Taliban;
- Putin's invasion into Ukraine;
- Chinese balloon celebration;
- Funding Iran;
- Armenian genocide 2.0;
- Attack on Israel.
The only question if he manages to sell Taiwan before his second term or during it...
Sumption in his support for withdrawing from the EHCR effectively undermines his support for the UK remaining in and returning to the EU.
Particular EU rules and regs were never the problem in and of themselves.
It was where they were made, who made them on whose behalf and how ultimately accountable to an electorate they were.
The ECHR charter he says he 100% agrees with is basically a load of unelected, unaccountable, essentially anonymous judges constantly reinterpreting and adding to a preagreed by its signatories set of established principles ie not necessarily upholding them.
Like the EU, it's classic mission creep whereby an institution is constantly seeking to find ways of consolidating and/or extending its powers for its own self-serving reasons.
This contradiction is further undermined by his view on being opposed to having a one size fits all pandemic policy legally imposed by a supranational body like the WHO.
Very interesting erudite man. A joy to listen to.
What a wonderful converation by lord Sumption really great
Great interview Freddie… interesting points of view Jonathan Sumption!!!
Erudite and worthy of our attention in so many fields that affect us all.
How is it possible to engage with his thoughts and not node with a cheerful agreement “or not in some cases” and not respect him. Lord Sumption Is Uk intellectual most venerated and much needed voice among us . Thank you sir for your service.
I like Lord Sumption but did anyone else notice how he avoided the intra-national/WEF question and the language he used to dismiss Donald Trump? I didn't like either.
I had no idea that such a clever man would suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome
The Trump deranged are mentally incapable of acknowledging reality. eg; that since “this particularly monstrous individual” was removed from power we have widespread economic downturn, widespread burning of coal again, and two nuclear powers fighting two bloody wars with escalation a constant threat … 🤔
Maybe it is you who has suffered from the views of the BBC and the US media. Can you imagine how life would be had Clinton got in and carried out the agenda of the swamp.
Agreed. As someone who seems to have well rounded and thoughtful responses it was rather stunning to hear such a shallow and poorly formulated take on Trump. TDS is a very powerful drug... usually affects intellectuals rather intensely.
Yes, its quite astounding really, like a mind virus. Its all down to an intense personal dislike of one individual, spun relentlessly by the mainstream media. Lets ignore all of what happened (or didnt happen) during the 4 years he was in the Whitehouse, and also ignore the current incumbents continuing destruction of the economy and warmongering. At least the yanks have a choice, the UK is done whoever you vote for @@dnormore1814
He is a great intellect but he is not always right in my humble opinion. Would love to see him in a discussion with David Starkey and Thomas Sowell. Freedom of speech and respect for the procedural disappears as different cultural attachments exist at number in the borders of a single state.
Augustine was discussing concepts of "just and unjust war" in tbe 4th century, and in the 7th Adomnán of Iona successfully promulgated the Lex Innocentium protecting non-combatants. Were these debates completely absent in the 14th century? Seems unlikely.
Agree with lockdown comments, disagree with EU/rejoin comments.
Of course. The lockdowns were organised by the globalists - who also run the EU.
Yes, that was my view too, Bewilderedbrit. His argument for keeping the UK in the EU was couched in military terms, but the EU is not a military alliance. Britain has never left Europe in terms of military and security concerns. It is still a member of NATO and the OSCE. It doesn't provide troops for a European army because there is no European army to join. I'm a Canadian, so I can't say I follow European events closely, but the UK got a very bad steer when Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown replaced the RPIX as the target inflation indicator of the Bank of England with the UK HICP in order to conform with the European Central Bank, whose target inflation indicator was the HICP for the euro area. The RPIX had house prices in it; the HICP doesn't, and a few years later Britain suffered a housing boom and bust. It would have been OK if Eurostat had, as planned, incorporated an owner-occupied housing component based on the net acquisitions approach, but it has been studying that since 2000 and still hasn't made the change. The EU appears to be a sclerotic institution, incapable of making necessary reforms.
@@andrewbaldwin4454 a bad 'steer' - I'm not familiar with the term.
Who cares? The narcissism of folks these days is astounding.
@@hazelwray4184 He’s saying Brown was given bad guidance or bad information
Great interview!
Lord Sumpton is an amazing human
Rare to get such good questions from an audience. Made the Q&A section much better than the interview section. Kudos.
I think Lord Sumption has made some very good points regarding lockdowns.
Congratulations to Lord sumption . He appears to have came out from the past three years , not only relatively emotionally unscathed but one might argue ,if as it appears albeit rather unintentionally , slightly richer but certainly in the his social profile does appear to have profited ( not unlike Jordan Peterson ) . I however , as a self employed carpenter still have to deal with conditions imposed upon myself by local councils and suppliers alike . Behaviour patterns amongst my immediate surroundings have now become ingrained and those that were once willing to completely deny me ( this being the socialist superstate that calls itself liverpool ) of my livelihood, now continue to act as if such a tragedy never happened.
Riveting and informative, thank you both.
This man. A hero of our times. Thank you Sir.
The problem is that we no longer make a distinction between good me evil! All opinions seem to have the same equal powers! Our distance from Judie-Christian morals is what is causing this chaos! We fight evil but no longer can distinguish what evil is!
Always a pleasure to listen to Lord Sumption. In a previous interview, believe he mentioned something alone the line of his relative suffering a decline in dementia due to closures on theatre and life, etc. Wish you had asked him on some of his difficult judicial decisions in his career. 😊 Although there's people saying that he didn't say anything new, find Lord Sumption's views largely of a reasonable nature. Thanks. X
An impressive communicater,his view are always clearly and engagingly expressed .with a rationale that i agree with mostly
How anyone can even consider Joan of Arc /Greta Thunberg in the same thought really is a stretch of the imagination..
Trump was a reaction to the dishonesty of government. Did this bloke not see he kept his word more than any politician for decades?
His word wasn’t consistent or realistic … where’s that wall he said he would build ? He didn’t do the maths … he doesn’t believe in maths. He’s a narcissist, he believes in himself …
The so-called wall is a convenient political football in the US much like the NHS is in the UK.
Frequently stymied by US politics, in fact Trump ended up replacing much of the deteriorating already existing wall rather than adding to it significantly.
That 'wall' was often fencing and was even being contributed to by the sainted Obama and various presidents before that.
It continues to be added to by O'Biden today, albeit against his pledge not to do so, thanks to an earlier Trump presidential pledge.
I agree with your first sentence, but not the second. Trump's no better than the rest of them, he just knows how to play it to a different audience.
He couldn't do 'the maths'... Trump was stymied by every conceivable roadblock... from the uni party types, an uncooperative congress who have the purse strings and vilified at every turn by the establishment and MSM. They hated this outsider who was the vinegar in their old boys network wine.... and it continues to this day. They fear him cause he wants to break up their in house corruption and will go to any length to stop him.
I wish there was time to ask him about the expansion of ULEZx. Is it really the expansion of the medievalist City of London CO’s jurisdiction? Is it that the 1 square mile became too small and new forms of revenue were needed? I’m curious.
What a walking, talking (sitting, sipping, flamboyant) article , oracle of a guy.
A privilege to hear a learned person like Lord Jonathan Sumption generously share his thoughts on a range of topics in a humble style. He gets my vote for influence at the National Trust. I now feel stimulated to read one if his books but am not ready for The Hundred Years tome so might try Pilgrimage. Thank you Jonathan and Freddie.
Yet he judges Hamas as unorganised without resources. They receive billions of dollars from the international community, and build hundreds of kilometres of tunnels under sandy ground, and can fire thousands of rockets at the Jews while their leaders live in luxury in Qatar planning their strategy at a safe distance. Sounds very organised to me and overflowing with resources. Yet somehow can’t organise resources for the people there to have water and electricity, despite having a border with Egypt, and a seaport to the Mediterranean. Access to which allowed several countries to build the Bronze Age civilisation more than 3,000 years ago.
Have always been impressed by Lord Sumption on Lockdown & many other subjects. However I felt regarding the discussion about recent protests here regarding events in Palestine & Israel a sense of disappointment at the limited time given to such a matter of grave concern for both sides.
Same here. I'm amazed that a mind such as his focused only the legitimacy of Israel's actions, not the attack that caused it. You can criticise it in isolation, but what other nation would tolerate what happened? I suspect most countries would react similarly. But when Isreal does it, somehow more special criticism is warranted.
Basically we have advanced with amazing technology over the last century but in reality we still have a dark age mentality. Sadly, looking around, I see nothing in the world that challenges that view of modern society.
Could have done with some discussion of the future impact of Islamic doctrine on the polity of the U.K. Given its large and growing presence. And its very anti the sorts of political economy which Lord Sumption et. al. (and me) support.
He talks of immigration and the nation state, around 52 minutes, but without recognition that the current levels are mostly from cultures which are inimical our liberal principles and not given to becoming part of the local culture.
Read his books, the first is one of the best histories I've read of many.
The last point was fascinating - constotutional flexibility as a key to navigating decline.
I would want to know why mr Sumption is so adamant against trump. In terms of domestic and foreign USA policies
Not re some really awful speeches especially first part of his term
He is still trapped inside the establishment paradigm.
Trump doesn’t really have “policies” … he’s a talker - says whatever needed to gain popularity - but did he ever deliver ? Where’s the wall he built to close the Mexican border once & for all ?
Yes, I would like to know as Chamath Pslisticva, a liberal turning now centre, said in his podcast about tru, “ we didn’t like the messenger so we killed the message “ message that now turned to be right
According to Lord Sumption, we're really up the junction.
44:48 - Q & A 45:04 - Q : Common Good 45:20 - A :
47:07 - Q : Law making back to the State's?
48:15 - Legislative choice
48:58 - Dobbs problem
Surely not right about this - that the British boundary, for security purposes, is on the Rhine was comprehensively disproved in the Wars of the Spanish Succession, the Napoleonic war, the First world war and Hitler's War. It may well have been in the mediaeval period. Also British foreign policy sensible? How can that be right? The preservation of the Empire by any possible means was driven by greed, it led to many disastrous events, not least the First World War, it failed catastrophically, and can be seen in retrospect to be entirely bankrupt and illusory.
Well spoken and entertaining to listen to. However, too Anglocentric. I'm surprised to hear that he thinks UK could have influenced EU to be less federalist and he does not recognize that EU is on a downward trajectory. The bureaucratic EU cannot operate well during non-peacetimes, talk about a "fair weather" institution. The US is far more robust and flexible than he gives credit. It has survived through more than just the 1930s and 1860s. More importantly, the US unlike UK has not even come close to maximizing its natural resources.
An Englishman being Anglocentric - hmm
@amandawang6991: “too Anglocentric”: not really a surprise, that’s the appeal for me, an interview inside the UnHerd Club, St James’s, City of Westminster, with Jonathan Sumption now a Lord, one time an English Barrister, also the interviewer and Co founder of UnHerd the excellent Freddie Sayers.
He presumes that EU will still exist in the coming decades. Interesting. And his comment about supra-national forces is surprising, given the audacity & power of WHO, WEF & UN this decade.
43:28 how is the EU ruling all of continental Europe any different to say Germany ruling continental Europe? It is delusional to think we ever “had a say”.
Lives in a different world.
We are all living in our different worlds.
What is your point?
Wonderful voice love his brainworks.
These are fine interviews, but we need to hear from more people that are not from the ruling class mindset. They're always wishy-washy about everything, and ultimately arrive at these half-assed, unsubstantive conclusions.
I agree we need to hear more from people who don't speak with a plum in their mouth. Yes, that seems to come with "Education", but it evidently leads to resentment from so many others without the plummy accent - and who hold similar views. Example - a friend who grew up in Oldham, very working class, wouldn't give the time of day to most of the people in podcasts, like Lord Sumpton etc etc, yet holds very similar views. I wonder if this division is manipulated by activists seeking to undermine the country.
Agree that Lord Sumption is a bit too “Lordy” … the developing world, including India & China who constitute 46% of the world are kinda more important than the upper class Brit’s 🤷🏽♂️
@@lizgilbert9129 Well then, isn't that your friend's problem? He should try to open his mind a bit...
Ubsubstantive conclusions tend to lead to less slaughtered people.
Your YT handle appears appropriate.
The US (and the West) need to regain pride in wealth creation. That's Manufacturing and, yes, STEM subjects. Without that, the Arts and Humanities will wither, and the politicians' levers of power will be sticks in the ground. :)
I agree with Lord Sumption about so much but I'm puzzled by his attitude to the EU. There's a section of the population, all of similar age and educational background to Lord Sumption, and most of them retired public servants, who talk endlessly about the need to be in the EU to defend "our influence". This influence seems to be measured entirely in terms of our ability to keep France and Germany from getting too close. Before Brexit we couldn't set our own rates of VAT, or our own employment laws, we were obliged to submit ourselves to the EU's draconian privacy regulations, not to mention those ridiculous cookies popups and attempts to meddle with daylight savings time. Were we still in, we would currently be shutting farms because of a wholly fabricated "nitrogen crisis". But at least we'd have all that influence.
The EU do not dictate VAT for the member states take Ireland for example!! 😉 You have a very wrong opinion for the EU you will be surprised of how much we ACTUALLY had control of....this is one of the reasons that nothing has changed and legal and illegal immigration has gone up through the roof!!
@@chriskost7291 @chriskost7291 You are wrong. The EU requires member states to set VAT at no less than 15%. It allows certain products to be sold at 0 rates and at a lower rate. It also collects a proportion of the revenue. I don't think I mentioned immigration in my comment, but the fact that the UK has not chosen to exercise its acquired right to limit migration doesn't mean the legal situation hasn't fundamentally changed.
@@tpfrobsonable No mate again I don't know from whom you collect your data but the EU regulations for VAT are involving only 4% of the products and they are there for a good reason...don't forget that the EU regulate the signal market!! And for the immigration issue I just stated that we were behind a lot of EU regulations, this is why nothing has changed since we left and the prime example is immigration that ironically has gone UP 😂 NOT the shame, UP!! Imagine that argument from the Brexiters back in the days!!
EU VAT regulations certainly do not apply to only 4% of products. That is nonsense. The EU's own website is a good start here: "The Value Added Tax, or VAT, in the European Union is a general, broadly based consumption tax assessed on the value added to goods and services. It applies more or less to all goods and services that are bought and sold for use or consumption in the European Union."
@@tpfrobsonable Have you ever traveled to the EU mate? I have in the past 4 months gone to Germany, France and Greece...and cheese for example in all three countries had a deferent VAT percentage. So If we remove the EU entirely from the equation again the VAT will be above the minimum required because it is a huge source of money for nation states!! And again prime example here in the UK nothing has changed in 90% percent of the products and services in regard to VAT!!
He doesn't care about ordinary working people, if he wants to rejoin. He lives in a different world
Are you out of your mind? The uk needs to rejoin ASAP.
@@karenhopwood891 no you are.
@@karenhopwood891why
As a German, I can only be envious that you’ve managed to get out of the tentacles of the EU. We’ll never leave. Germans love straitjackets and dictators. 😞
1:01:26 - Q : 1:01:46 - A :
1:02:00 - Q : 1:02:27 - A : A fair weather 1:03:09 - Destroyer of Civil Society
1:03:41 - Rigid is not best to deal with long-term decline 1:04:01 -
1:04:30 - A much more flexible constitution
I might have misunderstood this but did not Sumption say that, it is illegal to support Hamas but not illegal to support the cause that they support? Seems odd
It's not odd, if what Hamas support is a 'free Palestine'.
I thought his position on this was dodgy.
He’s not exactly anti-Isreal, but he sometimes appears to head in that direction.
0:56:53 the notion of applying high minded Western, Judeo-Christian ethics of war to a primitive people like the "Palestinians" (70+% approval rating for Hamas) is absurd. This is where Christianity is weak & naive, not suited for this battle of civilisation vs barbarism.
Listeners this isnt a popularity contest . His comments are ideas to consider, not react to.
A man of intelligence refreshing to say the least
A meeting of like-minded independent thinkers.
I really hope Jonathan writes his memoir
Do we regard war as a catastrophe in modern times because it IS more of a catastrophe than in pre-modern times?
M'lud, please switch from the 100 years war to the middle east from 1917 (the Balfour Declaration).
For the purpose of seeking to demonstrate what?
Great to see old Rowley Burkin QC still going strong.
As an Irishman, Sumption's position on Brexit seems like that the ordinary British citizen should suck it & self sacrifice while the Lord Melchett types strategise about the power structures
As an Irishman?
@@duncefunce1513 as in, I'm looking at what British voters did & I admire it. Coupled with how cucked the Irish are: barely 3 decades of independence after 800 yrs & we join the EEC...
@@johnglennmercury7 oh, ok
Don't worry, in times of crisis, when you're fighting on the front lines, the Lord Melchett types will be right behind you. About 35 miles behind you to be more precise.
Sure - he calls covid an overreaction - BUT if i remember correctly in another unherd interview... he was actually rather PRO vaccine passports... to the big Ooooohhhhs of anyone who heard him here.
That never sat well with me.... and it would be interesting to hear whether his opinion on that has changed.
"on the whole, I don't believe that humanity changes very much. The technological possibilities which enabled them to achieve their objectives have changed quite radically, but their ambitions and their moral sensibilities haven't changed at all." - sadly, tragically, greedily, indifferently, recklessly, resource wastefully..
" Humanity doesn't change very much" . Is Johnny Sumption not only referring to humanity's penchant for war , or mankind's nature in general?
Tech' progress is a given but that surely is a superficial irrelevance in this context.
Note JS dodges the very real present possibility of nuclear annihilation of humanity !
Here's a ChatGPT summary:
- Jonathan Sumption was a historian before becoming a lawyer and has written a definitive history of the 100 Years War.
- He is the first justice of the Supreme Court to have been installed without ever having been a full-time judge.
- Lord Sumption has been closely involved in the COVID experience and has stood up against what he perceived to be bad policy.
- Volume 5 of his 100 Years War series was recently published.
- War is crucial to the understanding of the creation of the state and human societies.
- War was regarded as the norm in medieval societies and was seen as a reasonable thing to spend money on.
- Joan of Arc was a 17-year-old peasant who reversed the course of the war in the space of a year.
- Lord Sumption believes that nations are coming back and national self-interest is reasserting itself.
- He believes that the liberal mood is receding and that we may see a more authoritarian style of government in the future.
- Lord Sumption believes that the European Court of Human Rights has emancipated itself from the text of the European Convention on Human Rights.
- He thinks that the Geneva Convention on Refugees was made for a different world and may no longer be fit for purpose.
- Lord Sumption believes that the nation state is not inconsistent with high levels of migration.
- He believes that the United States may see a major shift towards authoritarianism in the future due to its rigid constitution and decline in relative position in the world.
- Lord Sumption is more optimistic about the UK's prospects due to its flexible constitution, but acknowledges that decline is still an uncomfortable experience.
The Supreme Court should be abolished.
All that would mean is that there was no final court of appeal beyond the Court of Appeal.
So effectively the Court of Appeal would then become the Supreme Court, as in the final court of appeal.
Any final court of appeal is effectively a Supreme Court, whatever name you give it.
Put a photo of Lord Sumption in place of the caricature!
44:00 "You can ask Jonathon anything". He is nearly as good as ChatGPT.
I love this conversation . However I question if modern civilisation ( so to speak) has infact managed to live without fear and cohersiin . Let me explain myself to me and you :) …… brown black and working class people throughout the history of modern civilianisation have lived in line with the needs of the ruling civilisation due to both explicit ( Apartheid , zoning laws, laws aimed at certain ways of surviving or thriving, employment instability, class exclusion, hunger and probably others Im omitting) and implicit laws ( social mores , social acceptability, upward mobility or not) in various states of denied fear. That fear keeps people in line wether it is enacted overtly or implicitly and quietly. Either way it’s cohersive drive is felt and by some more than others. It has a further unconisous action on those who are not in any fear of contravening said laws and social mores , they see the instability of those who do not comply or fit in and they do not rock the systemic boat and even feel superior and justified in the instability that their own stability is mostly underpinned by. Because those who are unable to fit into or are subjugated for their cheap Labour etc blah blah blah and forced to do the majority of the work that keeps modern civilisation comfortable for the rest are constantly under the weight of an invisible but felt cogersion. Which is why often there’s a bit of a fuck the laws attitude in many sectors of society…… maybe? I love thinking but I know I’m not any form of scholar so …. Maybe ? Seems a good caveat to my instant and rudimentary thoughts and response to the lords assumption that mostly there has been no cohersion. Basically if you covered a minority you send a silent message to the rest no? The only difference with covid is everyone got to feel the force of fear as tool of control, in an unmasked and uncovered form.
08:16 - On 07 OCT 2023 , killing of infants , abducting elderly ?
08:29 - Theoretical qualms about killing priests & religious pilgrims & everyone else was fair game
We'll be fine,
dont worry about decline!
We havn,t an elected prime minister,
not trying to be sinister.
But please stop the mockery
of pretending we're a democracy
Globalisation destroyed the nation state democracy decades ago unfortunately.
Good Lord...is he a scientist too? There were sound scientific reasons for the lockdown. It might have helped to put the other side of the argument here. One gets a whiff of smugness on the part of interviewer and interviewed here
There weren’t. Sweden did fine without them.
You did correctly spot the smugness filling the room.