To expand on DRFM any why it was working so well vs SAMs. This mainly has to do with the fact that these SAMs are semi-active radar homing (SARH) and that when DRFM mode does the range gate pull off (RGPO) successfully (thats the portion of DRFM that breaks locks) semi-active missiles have a very short window for the guiding radar to relock to have a chance at working. This is assuming the SARH missile in question is capable of lost-lock-recovery, as the EF24 manual points out the AIM7 given to the EF24 is a newer model capable of that, suggesting not all SARH missiles in game can even do so. The problem with active-radar homing (ARH) missiles is that because it has it's own radar, once it loses lock it simply can attempt to rescan while flying it's predicted path as before. DRFM does not specifically degrade a hostile radars capability and thus it will have no issue getting a re-lock if you simply stay on the trajectory the missile thinks you are on. Thus vs ARH missiles you need to perform other defensive actions that augment DRFMs capability. Obviously chaff and g-turns will be effective as for the slight moment the missile has lost lock, it isn't following you. So when it does so, made harder via chaff, suddenly it has to pull way more Gs for longer if you've gone 180 from where it thought you were going 2-3 seconds ago. You can of course also combine DRFM with noise jamming, which in the case of ARH missiles, makes regaining that lock after RGPO harder and if combined with g-turns, again makes it so the missile has to turn harder for longer to catch you.
I’m pretty sure this is the only information on defensive jamming and the practicality of various techniques. Words can not express how much I appreciate you lmao.
Out of curiosity, and I was thinking about this yesterday and haven't actually attempted it yet - with two jamming pods is it possible to dual-jam an incoming missile using both noise and DRFM simultaneously? If so would that make any difference to the missile lock? Again I've not even considered attempting to use each pod to independently jam the same target under two separate types of jamming - or if the game even let's you do that.
Yes! I've been doing it with a single pod actually, using 1A for noise and 1B for DRFM. Though I don't actually know how much of a difference it makes, you can use both sides of 1 pod to do independent tasks. Just be wary you have to manage power between those two sides. If you use two different pods, one for the noise and one for the DRFM, you would be able to use full power with each. Edit: Realize you said incoming missile, I was using it against stationary targets. I imagine it'd still work though.
@justashadow2520 once I'm done troubleshooting some vr issues I'll see if I can try this out. For some reason either the last steamvr update or the last vtol vr update introduced a stutter. Not a horrible one, but enough to be noticeable.
I don’t think using both would make a huge difference since both jamming types won’t affect the missile at the same time. Noise is useful to *prevent* a lock before it happens and DRFM is useful to confuse a lock after it happens. Neither noise nor DRFM did a whole lot in my testing, though DRFM did *something.* The missile still burned through the noise once it got close and the DRFM was defeated by how quickly it kept re-acquiring.
Hey Dark, second question for you. How has missile evasion changed with the new radar systems (g-pull and barrel rolling missiles)? Are there new recommendations to dodging, or should we still be doing g-pulls and/or head-on barrel rolling
DRFM jamming an incoming missile forces it to rapidly break and reacquire lock, making it easier for you to out-turn the missile. No other jamming technique works consistently against missiles in my experience. The HUD change makes it harder to visually see the missile, as it only shows you the bearing instead of the actual position, but it’s still very doable. Wiggle chaffing was also nerfed, so it’s harder to chaff radars. G-pulling or barrel rolling to pass by the missile is still my go-to technique to evade.
Can you do a video exposing the range gate pull off technique in vtol vr, I know it’s mentioned in the ef24 manual, but I’m too small brained to understand how to properly apply it to vtol
It's quiet "simple" and he actually showed it in the video. RGPO or Range gate pull off is used when you jamm a radar that is locking you (shown as a red line on the tsd) with drfm. The jammer automatically uses RGPO and it's shown as the green ring in the selected jammer. All it does is break radar locks by sending back alternated radar signals so the radar looses track because it doesn't look in the right direction anymore.
I have two more videos on EW and jamming, but yeah I’ve covered pretty much everything between the three videos I’ve made on it. Decoy Missile EF-24G Tutorial | VTOL VR DLC th-cam.com/video/R5nGPNuK1uY/w-d-xo.html Defensive Jamming | VTOL VR th-cam.com/video/th68zqb3ZVU/w-d-xo.html
Can the F/A-26 DFRM jam? Or is anyone else missing the mode button? I wanted to practice jamming with the module but there was no mode button to select and change the type of jamming. Looking at some video tutorials showed they had the mode change button. Not sure if it was a bug or not. I was trying it on the "Difficult Mission" because once the air combat is over the missile cruisers will lob rockets on which are good practice.
So when should I use NOISE HIGH... If I'm locked, then DRFM is fine... Should I use HIGH when my ally is locked? Or prevention before missile launch? Hmmm, but then MID is more like it...
Your thought process is how one really gets good at EW imo. Every tool at your disposal is extremely simple to use by itself, but taking *everything* you have at your disposal and applying it in a complex way is something else. For your specific questions... both! This is assuming you are in a EF24 though, as only having two pods might not be enough to support allies as well. Having 4 pods in a 24 means you can have all 3 bands noise jammed at full power with one pod on DRFM capable of full power as well. Should also note noise jamming works in a corridor, so to help an ally they have to be in line with you and the target radar in that corridor of noise. Personally if i only have one pod for defensive purposes, i'd probably have both halfs of the jammer on one target with MID noise and DRFM. Once i'm locked, max DRFM and remember that unless it's a semi-active missiles (basically only SAMs unless someone is being spicy with AIM7s) you still have to be ready to evade the missile as ARH ones are just going to keep on trying to re-lock you. If i have two pods, i think i'd have one with max power DRFM and the other with both MID/HIGH noise, switching power depending on if im at the getting shot at stage. Of course it's never that simple because you're probably going to have multiple threats, but thats why theory is only theory.
Different radars use different bands, so you have to jam whatever band they use. Here’s a reference: High band - AAA, missile warning truck, and missile internal radar Mid band - Aircraft and ground radars Low band - Comms, GPS, AWACS radar and EW radar - Only the ground based GECM truck and the EF-24 jammer can do low-band jamming
If the missile is fired from the ground, you have to jam the radar it fired from. In my experience, trying to jam air-to-air missiles doesn’t work very well. Triple A shows up as just an A, missile warning trucks are MW.
What is the differences between Noise jamming, DRFM jamming and SAS jamming? from what I can tell DRFM is to break locks and SAS is to mask you signature but what does noise do?
Do we know if non-jammed aircraft pick up a jamming aircraft easier, once it starts putting out power like that? Would think that makes its signature more visible.
That’s correct. That’s a key drawback of using any sort of jamming. Noise by definition sends a strong radar signal to a target, and DRFM and SAS take a received signal, make changes and send it back at a higher power.
@@darkstar1592 I enjoy this knowledge! Needs wider acknowledgement, really: Gives multiplayers a reason to need to help provide the EW platforms a fighter escort. Maybe an F-45 pilot, not showing up on the jammer's radar to designate, can use this to identify the jammer as a priority air target and creep up on them?
It’s used by AAA, missile warning truck, and missile internal radars. Attempting to jam missiles didn’t work, but it likely works better against the ground targets. Jamming the missile warning trucks could end up being helpful, depending on how they’re used in missions.
@@darkstar1592 I was under the impression that it would help in some way against SAMs in STT tracks. I made a scenario with a single MAD4 and tried jamming it with 4 pods at high power. I didn’t have a lot of time to test and I wasn’t being very scientific about it but I didn’t notice a change in missile accuracy or launch distance.
I don’t think using both would make a huge difference since both jamming types won’t affect the missile at the same time. Noise is useful to *prevent* a lock before it happens and DRFM is useful to confuse a lock after it happens. Neither noise nor DRFM did a whole lot in my testing (though DRFM did *something*) so I don’t expect that using both at the same time would do much. The missile still burned through the noise once it got close and the DRFM was defeated by how quickly it kept re-acquiring.
@@darkstar1592 i just posted a comment that included a bit about this but think about what you just described in this comment. Noise helps before lock, DRFM can break locks... think about it. Noise jamming with DRFM *should* mean that every time DRFM breaks the lock of a AIM120, if the 120 isn't at burn through range yet (which is going to be shorter than the hostile aircrafts radar for obvious reasons) it's going to take longer for the 120 to re-acquire, at least before it hits burn-through range. And as i mentioned in my other comment, that should just make g-turning that much more effective. With the speeds involved with missile combat, it feels like even half a second extra of lost lock would decrease a missiles PK if the target is turning away from its former path in that extra half second (plus however long it normally takes to re-lock)
I’d probably just lock onto the target I thought was best and hope the missiles internal radar can figure it out once it gets closer. DRFM doesn’t really work on missiles (as you can see in the video) so it might still reach the target.
Keep em coming. These are excellent.
Thanks, will do!
These videos are so underrated and so useful, thank you for taking your time to make these tutorials for us.
Glad you like them!
To expand on DRFM any why it was working so well vs SAMs. This mainly has to do with the fact that these SAMs are semi-active radar homing (SARH) and that when DRFM mode does the range gate pull off (RGPO) successfully (thats the portion of DRFM that breaks locks) semi-active missiles have a very short window for the guiding radar to relock to have a chance at working. This is assuming the SARH missile in question is capable of lost-lock-recovery, as the EF24 manual points out the AIM7 given to the EF24 is a newer model capable of that, suggesting not all SARH missiles in game can even do so.
The problem with active-radar homing (ARH) missiles is that because it has it's own radar, once it loses lock it simply can attempt to rescan while flying it's predicted path as before. DRFM does not specifically degrade a hostile radars capability and thus it will have no issue getting a re-lock if you simply stay on the trajectory the missile thinks you are on. Thus vs ARH missiles you need to perform other defensive actions that augment DRFMs capability. Obviously chaff and g-turns will be effective as for the slight moment the missile has lost lock, it isn't following you. So when it does so, made harder via chaff, suddenly it has to pull way more Gs for longer if you've gone 180 from where it thought you were going 2-3 seconds ago.
You can of course also combine DRFM with noise jamming, which in the case of ARH missiles, makes regaining that lock after RGPO harder and if combined with g-turns, again makes it so the missile has to turn harder for longer to catch you.
Great explanation
I’m pretty sure this is the only information on defensive jamming and the practicality of various techniques. Words can not express how much I appreciate you lmao.
Glad it was helpful!
I learned so much with this channel, crystal clear informations, couldn't ask for more.
Thanks 🙂
So glad!
You do a great job with these quick tutorials. With both clear instructions and voice!
Glad you like them!
Pretty decent video on jamming. Next I think you should do a video on SEAD with missile warning radar, sams, and all that stuff.
Thanks. Yeah, I think that’ll be next.
These are really helping me out man. Making it a ton of fun for me and my friend
I’m glad they’re helpful!
Thanks for the informative and easy to understand tutorial
Glad it was helpful!
I love you so much for this video. I had no idea what any of it even meant.
Glad I could simplify it
Thank you ! I’m planning to buy the new DLC and these videos are very helpful!
Glad you like them!
Hey Bro this is the best content for VTOL VR thanks for all the testing.
Happy to do it. Thanks!
Out of curiosity, and I was thinking about this yesterday and haven't actually attempted it yet - with two jamming pods is it possible to dual-jam an incoming missile using both noise and DRFM simultaneously? If so would that make any difference to the missile lock? Again I've not even considered attempting to use each pod to independently jam the same target under two separate types of jamming - or if the game even let's you do that.
Yes! I've been doing it with a single pod actually, using 1A for noise and 1B for DRFM. Though I don't actually know how much of a difference it makes, you can use both sides of 1 pod to do independent tasks. Just be wary you have to manage power between those two sides. If you use two different pods, one for the noise and one for the DRFM, you would be able to use full power with each.
Edit: Realize you said incoming missile, I was using it against stationary targets. I imagine it'd still work though.
@justashadow2520 once I'm done troubleshooting some vr issues I'll see if I can try this out. For some reason either the last steamvr update or the last vtol vr update introduced a stutter. Not a horrible one, but enough to be noticeable.
I don’t think using both would make a huge difference since both jamming types won’t affect the missile at the same time. Noise is useful to *prevent* a lock before it happens and DRFM is useful to confuse a lock after it happens. Neither noise nor DRFM did a whole lot in my testing, though DRFM did *something.* The missile still burned through the noise once it got close and the DRFM was defeated by how quickly it kept re-acquiring.
Once I get VTOL VR I am sure to come back
Defensive Jamming is hard to pull off, given the pods only jam forward. Hoping that's edited soon.
Amazing! Thank you
Glad you liked it!
Hey Dark, second question for you. How has missile evasion changed with the new radar systems (g-pull and barrel rolling missiles)? Are there new recommendations to dodging, or should we still be doing g-pulls and/or head-on barrel rolling
DRFM jamming an incoming missile forces it to rapidly break and reacquire lock, making it easier for you to out-turn the missile. No other jamming technique works consistently against missiles in my experience. The HUD change makes it harder to visually see the missile, as it only shows you the bearing instead of the actual position, but it’s still very doable. Wiggle chaffing was also nerfed, so it’s harder to chaff radars. G-pulling or barrel rolling to pass by the missile is still my go-to technique to evade.
@darkstar1592 awesome thanks for the response, hermano, see you in the skies soon!
Can you do a video exposing the range gate pull off technique in vtol vr, I know it’s mentioned in the ef24 manual, but I’m too small brained to understand how to properly apply it to vtol
It's quiet "simple" and he actually showed it in the video. RGPO or Range gate pull off is used when you jamm a radar that is locking you (shown as a red line on the tsd) with drfm. The jammer automatically uses RGPO and it's shown as the green ring in the selected jammer. All it does is break radar locks by sending back alternated radar signals so the radar looses track because it doesn't look in the right direction anymore.
Exactly. The DRFM jamming I’m doing in the video is just RGPO.
I love giving myself edges 🔥
can you do a electronic warfare tutorial for the ef-24g?
Full EF-24G Jamming Tutorial | VTOL VR DLC
th-cam.com/video/fHtbvf-gOlA/w-d-xo.html
Is that all electronic warfare has to offer?@@darkstar1592
I have two more videos on EW and jamming, but yeah I’ve covered pretty much everything between the three videos I’ve made on it.
Decoy Missile EF-24G Tutorial | VTOL VR DLC
th-cam.com/video/R5nGPNuK1uY/w-d-xo.html
Defensive Jamming | VTOL VR
th-cam.com/video/th68zqb3ZVU/w-d-xo.html
ah ok @@darkstar1592
Can the F/A-26 DFRM jam? Or is anyone else missing the mode button? I wanted to practice jamming with the module but there was no mode button to select and change the type of jamming. Looking at some video tutorials showed they had the mode change button. Not sure if it was a bug or not. I was trying it on the "Difficult Mission" because once the air combat is over the missile cruisers will lob rockets on which are good practice.
The mode button was there during the open beta, but it was removed in the final release. The 26 can only noise jam.
So when should I use NOISE HIGH...
If I'm locked, then DRFM is fine...
Should I use HIGH when my ally is locked?
Or prevention before missile launch? Hmmm, but then MID is more like it...
Your thought process is how one really gets good at EW imo. Every tool at your disposal is extremely simple to use by itself, but taking *everything* you have at your disposal and applying it in a complex way is something else.
For your specific questions... both! This is assuming you are in a EF24 though, as only having two pods might not be enough to support allies as well. Having 4 pods in a 24 means you can have all 3 bands noise jammed at full power with one pod on DRFM capable of full power as well. Should also note noise jamming works in a corridor, so to help an ally they have to be in line with you and the target radar in that corridor of noise.
Personally if i only have one pod for defensive purposes, i'd probably have both halfs of the jammer on one target with MID noise and DRFM. Once i'm locked, max DRFM and remember that unless it's a semi-active missiles (basically only SAMs unless someone is being spicy with AIM7s) you still have to be ready to evade the missile as ARH ones are just going to keep on trying to re-lock you. If i have two pods, i think i'd have one with max power DRFM and the other with both MID/HIGH noise, switching power depending on if im at the getting shot at stage.
Of course it's never that simple because you're probably going to have multiple threats, but thats why theory is only theory.
Different radars use different bands, so you have to jam whatever band they use. Here’s a reference:
High band
- AAA, missile warning truck, and missile internal radar
Mid band
- Aircraft and ground radars
Low band
- Comms, GPS, AWACS radar and EW radar
- Only the ground based GECM truck and the EF-24 jammer can do low-band jamming
Did you figure out if it’s better to jam the missile? Or the site it was launched from?
Also, what’s triple A And the missile warning truck on the frazz? I know ones SR, what’s the other one?
If the missile is fired from the ground, you have to jam the radar it fired from. In my experience, trying to jam air-to-air missiles doesn’t work very well. Triple A shows up as just an A, missile warning trucks are MW.
What is the differences between Noise jamming, DRFM jamming and SAS jamming? from what I can tell DRFM is to break locks and SAS is to mask you signature but what does noise do?
Check out this video. I explain them in more detail.
Full EF-24G Jamming Tutorial | VTOL VR DLC
th-cam.com/video/fHtbvf-gOlA/w-d-xo.html
Do we know if non-jammed aircraft pick up a jamming aircraft easier, once it starts putting out power like that? Would think that makes its signature more visible.
That’s correct. That’s a key drawback of using any sort of jamming. Noise by definition sends a strong radar signal to a target, and DRFM and SAS take a received signal, make changes and send it back at a higher power.
@@darkstar1592 I enjoy this knowledge!
Needs wider acknowledgement, really: Gives multiplayers a reason to need to help provide the EW platforms a fighter escort. Maybe an F-45 pilot, not showing up on the jammer's radar to designate, can use this to identify the jammer as a priority air target and creep up on them?
I have yet to notice high band being effective. Still trying to figure that out.
It’s used by AAA, missile warning truck, and missile internal radars. Attempting to jam missiles didn’t work, but it likely works better against the ground targets. Jamming the missile warning trucks could end up being helpful, depending on how they’re used in missions.
@@darkstar1592 I was under the impression that it would help in some way against SAMs in STT tracks. I made a scenario with a single MAD4 and tried jamming it with 4 pods at high power. I didn’t have a lot of time to test and I wasn’t being very scientific about it but I didn’t notice a change in missile accuracy or launch distance.
I'm here just after reading the entire flight manual 😡
Im wondering if you can use both drfm and high band on the same missile to defeat the missile
I don’t think using both would make a huge difference since both jamming types won’t affect the missile at the same time. Noise is useful to *prevent* a lock before it happens and DRFM is useful to confuse a lock after it happens. Neither noise nor DRFM did a whole lot in my testing (though DRFM did *something*) so I don’t expect that using both at the same time would do much. The missile still burned through the noise once it got close and the DRFM was defeated by how quickly it kept re-acquiring.
@@darkstar1592 i just posted a comment that included a bit about this but think about what you just described in this comment. Noise helps before lock, DRFM can break locks... think about it.
Noise jamming with DRFM *should* mean that every time DRFM breaks the lock of a AIM120, if the 120 isn't at burn through range yet (which is going to be shorter than the hostile aircrafts radar for obvious reasons) it's going to take longer for the 120 to re-acquire, at least before it hits burn-through range. And as i mentioned in my other comment, that should just make g-turning that much more effective. With the speeds involved with missile combat, it feels like even half a second extra of lost lock would decrease a missiles PK if the target is turning away from its former path in that extra half second (plus however long it normally takes to re-lock)
How do you counter drfm jamming?
All i know is to get into the burn through range but idk how close that can be.
I’d probably just lock onto the target I thought was best and hope the missiles internal radar can figure it out once it gets closer. DRFM doesn’t really work on missiles (as you can see in the video) so it might still reach the target.
@@darkstar1592 from what I've heard, you can DRFM or high noise jam missiles when they go pitbull
darkstar1592>BuddySpike
hey k2
Hey Safeish
@@darkstar1592 good video