Classic Game Postmortem: Deus Ex
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this 2017 GDC postmortem, acclaimed game designer Warren Spector walks through the development of the 2000 hit game Deus Ex and reflects on some of the key lessons from launching the critically-acclaimed immersive sim.
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Gotta love that Human Revolution thumbnail for a video that only talks about the original Deus Ex.
I (and likely many others) would have been SO disappointed if this was a talk on anything other than the original - the true - and the greatest Deus Ex. The sequels are cool - I've played them all except Mankind Divided - but the best by far was the first, simply because it was so new and different back then. I guess your comment explains those otherwise bewildering thumbs-down votes on this great video...
It's a conspiracy.
SoilentGr33n
Someone doesn't want to find this talk ;D
Is that bad? The original is the only good one.
"Marketing"
Anytime Deus Ex is mentioned 10 people re-install.
I just did
Probably the same with New Vegas
And Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
Just got the game for like $2
Never UN installed 😉
The team 1 and A part was hilarious.
Like the parallel universes in Futurama.
@@ironcito1101 Or the Fighting Mongooses ... that's a cool name!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN SAVE PAUL DENTON???
- Me, talking to my friend about this game 10 years after it launched. I still play it every couple of years.
thought that was pretty common fact?
The only reason I knew that is because I snuck in on my brother playing and I was sur Paul was supposed to be dead at the point where he was. I first thought he had broken the game !
I'd say it is now sure. Wasn't to me back in the day. :)
Just don't go out the bedroom window, whatever you do.
+jtheyellow - that's what I initially did and I was frustrated Paul wasnt around despite me saving him.
10:55 - Spoiler Alert! The "unnamed RTS" game was supposed to be a "Command & Conquer Role Playing Game" published by EA. Warren Spector said so in the Replay Deus Ex video by Game Informer.
Thanks for solving that mystery.
Only 3 programmers made Deus Ex? Thats mad!
Three passionate, overworked programmers ;)
I thought it was 20 but honestly 3 is more believable
Only possible because they licensed the Unreal Engine
Er, programming teams are normally very small. You'd be surprised how few developers are dedicated programmers, especially nowadays when many developers just don't know how to program at all.
-> 58:00. in 1999 they probably got more people of that caliber in gamedev because 3D changed everything, the field was full of exciting challenges and possibilities, nowadays with AAA gamedev being more like movie production new people are probably looking for those things in something else like deeplearning systems
DEUS EX IS ONE OF THE GREATEST GAMES OF ALL TIME. Thanks GDC - I made many useful notes from this talk. Warren Spector is a living legend in my view.
"Once people buy the game, it's their game." *EA-Executives jump up in panic*
😭💀
I play this game every 4 years.
That is the sweet spot for me to forget enough of it to be able to play it almost like new.
Sure I still remember the first mission and a few key locations, but after 4 years I can rediscover it.
Now that four years have passed since this comment was made, did'cha get to relive it?
@@LeGurdah Ye, a modded version called :revision:
500 pages of documentation that I wish I could read!
It's 64 pages. But thank you! I'm happy to read it! Bummed it wasn't the 500 pages version.
I can't even imagine playing a 10 year DnD campaign with Bruce Sterling and Warren Spectre.
I love Warren, he is 10 times more goofy and laid back than I ever would have imagined considered he made one of the most famous and revolutionary games of all time based all around conspiracy theory :D
Absolutely, he still carries a bit of the goofy 90s around and wears it proudly! I'm guessing everyone who worked at Ion Storm does :)
I always found him humble and down to earth as well which is very enjoyable to see.
@@Will45_ yea they do you’re just stupid lol
This presentation is a fucking golden grail of knowledge. Huge kudos and big thanks!
I thought the grails made of gold were the ones that kill you?
thank god for the people who made this game. Although other games since have offered choice and variety, I still think Deus Ex is the shining example of "oh shit, I can do that?"
I'm actually trying to make a TTRPG, but I find listening to video game devs useful. I have to say after 30 or so of these videos, this was by far the most enjoyable. "Subtlety and Intelligence are important to me, and if I have to dumb down games to sell 20 million copies I'm not gonna make games anymore." straight gangster. You have to stay true to you and what's motivating you. If you don't it becomes a job. I know game developers work for money, but if money is all you want there are easier ways to get it. People choose to design games for a living because they love it. Don't ever loose that love.
Great talk!
I could've listened for another hour or three.
Exactly! Give this man the time! I want to listen!
"I'm working on System Shock 3..." WAIT, WHAT?! GO BACK!
I didn't. Wonderful.
@Gany J no ,ss3 is it's own thing. A trailer released some months ago. But i don't know if it's being worked on anymore. Haven't heard anything new about it. Hope it gets done.
@@g2.a6
looks, like system shock 3 won't happen anytime soon :/
www.videogameschronicle.com/news/the-system-shock-3-team-is-no-longer-employed-its-been-claimed/
It just got disbanded. Because fuck you, that's why
The original dev team isn't working on System Shock 3 anymore from what I've heard and Tencent is taking the franchise going forward.
I have no idea if it's ever going to actually be released, but if it does, whatever releases will certainly be a different game.
I remember visiting the Statue of Liberty years after playing Deus Ex and my first thought was how everything was eerily familiar and similar to what I "remembered" from the game. Of course, when I replayed Deus Ex after that I realized just how limited and simplified was the map compared to the real Liberty Island, but I guess that means the team did a great job at reproducing some of the feel of that place by using a similar layout and keeping some characteristic details. As the focus in the game wasn't visiting, it was more than good enough to give a very immersive experience. With hindsight it is impressive considering the limited technology of the time, engine and hardware... I mean I probably had 16 MiB of VRAM (did it run on a Banshee? ... pretty sure I played on my K6-II with a Banshee the first time and redid it on with a Athlon 1400 and a GeForce 2 MX on higher quality... Anyway!) and 64 or 128 MiB back then!
To this day, realising I could and then saving Denton's brother was one of my greatest gaming moments
I loved this game so goddamn much I blew a year and a half of my life just trying to make the best possible mod for it I could, called Terminus Machina. I'd never actually heard Warren Spector talk or read an interview but it seems we share the same 'never compromise your dream' philosophy. This is all the inspiration I needed to get back into gamedev.
If it is your dream, why did you stop? And why do you say you "*blew* a year and a half" of you life?
6:00 sir. In my book you absolutely succeeded with Deus Ex. It’s an incredible game that I have played time and again because of how well you and your team created an engaging experience with the best story I’ve seen in a game. Thank you so much!
He's the coolest guy ever. He talks like a good buddy.
26:34 Look at that awesome store display of PC games! Those were the days. And my local Software Etc. had literally hundreds of PC titles, and they dominated the store. Real boxes, man. Walk into a store, pick up a box, read the descriptions, look at the screen shots, make your selection. And once in a while, pick out a 3-D accelerator card. Oh sure, buying PC games is so much easier now, but for some reason, I really miss those days. I used to drive regularly 100 miles to a different town to check out the selection in a different store, just to see what kind of oddities I could find. And the clearance bins sometimes had gold in there.
Just be sure to buy the right card so your game actually looks like the box!
*Reinstalling Deus Ex for the 14th time...*
Lol. Sif you'd even uninstall it. There are optional decorations for some games that are bigger than the whole install.
You know me stranger. After commenting I went to install.. and found out it was already there.
Even stranger... I just looked and can't find it installed anywhere. I wouldn't have had any reason to uninstall either. This is clearly the work of the government trying to keep us from knowing the truth.
no one actually uninstalls
Or, you know...you hadn't installed it on that particular computer yet.
(Or, you fucked up the install and got distracted before fully reinstalling it.)
I love the calm, but passionate discourse, great talk
I find it telling, that DX:IW was not on the screen when he mentioned the following-up games in the series.
it was not well recieved and alot of ppl said it felt like a console game that was ported to the PC.
@@fordprefect4728 My TL;DR review: the original DX is deep. So deep that, even now, 20 years later, one can get lost in the myriad of conspiracy theories and political commentary the game presents to the player. DX:IW on the other hand, is so shallow that one would consider a coaster filled with water, "deep".
One of the best talks I've ever heard on any topic, period.
This guy’s great! Great content and delivered very well, all with a good sense of humor. This is how you give a talk on game development.
I never played the game. I'm not into RPGs or Shooters, but the talk was great. He's an excellent speaker.
@pablo gonzalez I have why do you ask? I hardly remember the talk now, tho,
I know it's 5 years old, but you should definitely give it a shot. I'm still playing it now in 2023 and it's still on par if not better than a lot of immersive sims today.
The questions in the QA were top notch. Shout out to the attendees
I just realized that he's very likely talking about Command & Conquer at 11:03
Remember a GEP takedown is always the most silent way to eliminate Manderley.
One of the greatest alongside Thief and others. While many of the conspiracies are silly, this game red pilled a lot of youth and combined great gameplay with good story.
ironic considering they were "conspiracy red pilled" by a jewish guy
ive been waiting for this for YEARS
44:45 "no aliens, no teleporters, no demons"
Shhhhhh, nobody tell Invisible War
The first Deus Ex had aliens.
@@DarkMatterVisible they were mutants made by majestic 12.
I think
@Shallex There is no proof for that in game. In later games they say the grays were an experiment which didn't have anything to do with aliens.
21:28 YESSSSS all devs need to echo this “if something is cool, don’t even think about having an npc do it” THANK YOU
And then we get the NPCs from Just Cause. Thanks, but no thanks.
@@klobiforpresident2254 what about the just cause's npcs?
That mouse with a helmet for 'never give up' was great :D
Part of me wishes he and at least some of the original devs/writers could go back and release an update for it. A join up with UNATCO would be sweet.
but it wouldn't match the story, since they're obviously evil, and no one would side with them after knowing about the other endings (unless they wanted to experiment)
@@terner1234 It's known that it was originally meant to be an optional path in the game; stick with unatco, or betray them.
As for the idea that no one would side with them: Anna Navarre, Bob Page, Manderley, and Simons certainly did. There're a lot of philosophical reasons the player could justify siding with Page.
Deus Ex - Best Game of that decade, if not one that is timeless.
“We figured we could build a story around the characters. What were we thinking”
Ghibli Studios - and I took that personally
Would love to see one of these with Harvey Smith.
Dammit, Spector chewed through the chains again. NOW GET BACK TO WORK ON SYSTEM SHOCK 3!
I feel like I need to play the original DX. I wasn't a big gamer when it came out so it passed me by. I feel like I missed something amazing and really want to experience it for myself.
Hope you enjoyed it!
The free q&a section was enjoyable.
48:45 The most awkward sounding "hi" in existence
What a nice guy and what a great presentation!
Amazing. Thanks for sharing this talk with all of us. You really should change the preview image with the deus ex 1 cover art though :))
He says many of these things are common practice now, but I feel like hardly any AAA developer does any of what he listed -- Deus Ex and games from that era in general just had so much more love put towards them.
Best GDC I've ever watched
That was great! Thank you for posting this! I don't think Warren came out as arrogant at all. Very funny guy!
absolutely adore warren spector's scorching hot takes on game development
What a great postmortem and a great guy.
Love that talk, that guy is real deal.
the last time i played this game through was on release back in 2k. will play it again soon.
Bruce Sterling as GM. Color me jealous!
That was pretty impressive, yes.
51:23 - Official explanation of what JC stands for.
To me it will always be Jean-Claude
maybe but the real jesus christ analogy fits perfectly to the story
I would very much like to read the pre-production document.
Agreed - Ideas are ten a penny - Execution of good ideas is hard ! !
Awesome talk!
"Jesus Christ, Denton!"
kalythgaming What a shame.
What a rotten way to go.
insightful and inspiring
one of the best from 2017
At 49:28 Warren says he's obsessing over a game called Hundred!, but I can't find it anywhere. Does anybody know what he's talking about?
Most likely this itunes.apple.com/us/app/100-block-puzzle/id972013240
Have you tried 100!
38:07 ah, Warren you are wrong again. There are prank telephones with JC´s voice... and worked
Hey GDC guys. Could you activate the automatic subtitles for every video? That would improve accessibility to this great stuff. Thanks.
I'm curious to know what was the ending of that DnD campaign?
Ten-year campaign, that's how you know this dude is old-school. Modern D&D has been casualized IMO.
Got me knackered too, if only one had been at the questions post-post-mortem.
I've never played DnD and that part fucked me up. How can one raise the stakes after 10 years? We're talking Breaking Bad levels of writing or something.
I'VE BEEN playing one campaign for the last 15 years. we have 12 people in it, we currently are about mid way, we figure by 2030 we should be done.
Doctor Strange get on with it, buddy
It was the last game I have played. And I am going to play it one more time ❤️
The best part was in my opinion the explanation, what JC stands for in J.C. Denton. Hilarious!
Keep this videos comin please love seeing these new uploads
A system shock series post-mortem would be quite appropriate right now.
RE "No Forced Failures" at 21:00, Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut actually did that. And it was horribly annoying, to be knocked out and losing all my items and progress... I wish I played the normal version instead of the Director's Cut.
When he said he's working on System Shock 3 I about lost it
Guys u wont believe me.I just got this game like 2 weeks ago,and-im not kidding-installed iton my K6-III 450system with GeForce 256.Fuck this,its a masterpiece!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This guy is a legend.
45:45 Can't help but notice Invisible War is not included lol
Huh. At 22:53, as a visual aid when he mentions "the asteroid belt", there is what I'm 100% sure is a screenshot from Elite Dangerous.
I think the frustration chart is from Jenova Chen's thesis?
Love the thumbnail for a completely different game made by a different studio
Hope there ware people from Eidos Montréal/Square Enix taking notes.
Oh they did...
ubisoft should watch this video
Nothing wrong with Human Revolution.
>no forced failures
I take it he didn't play the part where you are captured by Gunther?
LEMONLIME
E
M
O
N
L
I
M
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A BOMB... kinda a forced failure at that point. Hilarious, tho.
@@Inezh358 Agent Orange
@@juansolo1617 you can avoid the bomb tho
I'm going to say i don't think there are any though i'm unsure on the bit where you escape after talking to Paul, managed to get to the park through the train and blow up Agent Nevara but i got captured after. Wondering if there is a way to escape, will probs try my next play through
The day I got cable internet, Ultima Online was amazing. Before that, idk why I played, but I did.
"Every time you mention it, SOMEONE will reinstall it."
Here, done!
I loved that game!
i have a question.
If someone offered you to re-do/make the original Deus Ex with todays tech and all new capabilities which before back in the 90s you didnt have , would you PLEASE do it ?
:)
45:07 i just LOVE it how the crappy Deus Ex games are not there like Invisible War and The Fall
My postmortem is augmented
The Slide with "Ion Storm und Drang" made me actually laugh. So what I learned in german class was actually good for something :D
Interesting, because in my eyes, Deus Ex is Citizen Kane.
no because citizen kane hasnt aged, whereas deus ex has aged woefully
Dark Souls is the game that really succeeded at making an interconnected, interlocking, multiple paths game design and world. It's the real successor to Deus Ex, much more so than Dishonored. Even as much praise as Dark Souls received, it still hasn't gotten the critical analysis that it deserves.
@@briankoontz1 But a game like that has close to no player choice, besides geographic choice. Which games like Deus ex and Dishonered are about.
@@mr.orangeaide5260 Video games don't age. It is the exact same game as it was 17 (19 now) years ago. Your expectations have changed. You have aged.
It's still a great game, and is still better than 99.99% of every game that releases nowadays.
@@tenbeat It has aged a little around the edges honestly (even as someone that eats sleeps and breathes 90s/early 2000s PC games) but yeah, It's definitely still one of the few true masterpieces of the gaming industry.
Nineteen people are Invisible War fans.
Wow Thief and Deus Ex both awesome games....need to buy Deus Ex on steam right now. Havent played it in decades. :D
I respect Warren's goal to make a truly immersive sim, but I feel his design paradigm of player choice ended up having a negative impact on Thief III. Thief 1 and 2 were able to have a very cohesive story and level design because the games were always in control of what the player did and the story progression was linear.
I think it wasn't design paradigm is to blame, but multitude of small and seemingly insignificant design decisions that in the end played on negative side of the Thief 3.
Warren Spector is just great! Pretty funny too. 43:58
3rd time watching this in the past 2 years!
It was an extremely ambitious game for its time
It would be interesting to see him talking about invisible war xD
1997 full of conspiracy theories, 2020 still full of conspiracy theories, 2050 all conspiracy theories were true. RIP
I wanna play this entire franchise so bad, I've only known about Immersive Sims for some weeks and I wanna play all of them
u should, it’s still a lot of fun the first one runs on pretty much any computer now a days
This was a pretty good presentation, okay?
It's amazing how passionate he is! Something that modern developers lacking. It was all about making a game back then and now it is all about making money, producing uninspired, dumbed down, aimed for younger audience, DLC\Micro-transaction driven games.
That came with the audience and the budgets. It is the same in cinema and music: the revenue has to cover the budget. The bigger the revenue, the less risk one can take. Even the scandals have to be broad and tame in order not to estrange parts of the audience.
You still find that passion and interest in the resulting product in the indie sector. But even there it rarely pays off. Where early computer gamers were a nerdy community willing to invest patience in learning a new game, everything today has to be served in the easiest accessible way today.
So one can say: the audiences don't want that quality anymore. It is not the fault of the designers.
"the audiences don't want that quality anymore. It is not the fault of the designers."
I don't think so. Game companies intentionally build their games that way, to market these games to younger audience. Because it is mostly the parents who buys games to their kids, and kids don't know anything about quality yet. They have short attention span, too lazy or incapable to learn lore or anything about game world, etc. They play new game for a while and when something new comes out, they switch to something new.
So game companies don't bother to include depth to their games anymore and we have carbon-copy snorefests of "open-world-games-with-shallow-gameplay-mechanics-and-infinite-busywork".
@@RmFrZQ The kids are still able to learn about the lore and game world, they're fine, it's just that it isn't profitable to include it. The people who will play for lore will also play for standard reasons: that is to say, there's no specific demographic that will be attracted to purchase the product if you include that kind of depth that won't already be attracted to purchase it anyway.
Really, it's more of a conscientious reward for people who sink time into your game *after* purchasing it. I suppose that's just what happens when you focus on hiring "professionals" (especially university trained 'normal' people) instead of passionate individuals (i.e. back when game developers were almost exclusively supernerds).
I have to wonder what his exact involvement was with Underworld Ascendant. That game is basically z-tier shovelware.
Installing Deus Ex again right now...