This Dodge is DEAD...No-Crank, No-Comm!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2022
- This 2004 Dodge Ram was towed to the local shop after the owner replaced the battery and the truck refused to crank. Shop owner says that his scanner is not talking to the PCM...
Let's start with the basics and see why this truck is dead in the water.
THINK TOOL PROS:
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Enjoy!
Ivan - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
You sir deserve an award!! I’m no auto tech guru and this video walked me through the process of getting my truck fired up again!
Hats off to you!
Ivan, great work as always, I wish the AllData’s of the world had a method of feedback for their wiring diagrams in which you could let them know based on VIN or whatever when there is an error.
"They" do and this is it... LOL
i am amazed at how many shops are out there that are lost without a scan tool. this was a basic level diag. no real curveballs thrown here.
I am guessing they had a scan tool but when it wouldn't communicate with the vehicle they called Ivan. The fault seems basic but we have had the benefit of viewing lots of vids of Ivans common sense step by step diagnosis
Great as ever, the question everyone asks (including myself) is ‘what’s the best scanner’, when actually the question should be ‘what’s the best information source’ 🤔
Good diagnosis. The repair for me would be cut wire and join to battery with inline fuse and put a tag on saying what it is.😁
Using a heat gun or hair dryer first might help some of those cold plastic prongs from breaking off. You never know how bad it could be just one or three.
Good alternative fix although would it be a good idea to document to the truck that fuse XX is now powering the PCM vs. the stock fuse? Just in case the next diagnosis needs to involve that circuit. Gosh, I hate working in those cold conditions.
Documented on fuse box cover :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Awesome! Looking out for the next guy, which may be you!
Thank you again and again for helping me understand better the proper way to diagnose problems. Always keeping a look out for your videos.
Since you checked power on top of the fuses but did you check if the fuse had good contact to the box? It would've been cool to see what's gone bad inside the box. Gread vid!
When you're hot you're hot, when you're not you're not! Jerry Reed called this one.
Those fuse boxes are pretty easy to repair but you have the guts to drill out the plastic welds in the standoffs to get them apart. The fuse boxes in older vehicles were just a bunch of wires going exactly where they needed to be, sometimes direct from the harness and sometimes through connectors. They switched to using enclosed boxes with connectors to circuit boards and solid buss wires and this is a huge point of failure. The solder joints and the buss wires break over time from heat cycling, corrosion and from vibration as well. They are super easy to fix but not easy to get the things apart if you've never done it before. I liked it better when they were a part of the harness, fewer points of failure...
I'm sure Ivan wouldn't have any trouble taking it apart. Just didn't feel it was worth chasing it.
@@dans_Learning_Curve Yeah, I guess it's more of a function of time vs money vs it's too damn cold. ;)
The bigger question for Ivan is one of liability. Sharing fuses is a hack. You could introduce a separate fuse and holder, which is not as much as a hack. But, to make and document (actual images of before and after) a repair to the fuse box itself provides proof that you have repaired the unit back to factory specification. Just in case something goes wrong, which may not have anything to do with the repair you made, but you are an easy target for a Lawyer.
So, I would recommend repairing or replacing the fuse box and not do a hack, which is usually an easy decision for the vehicle owner, because the cost of a new fuse box will usually be 1.5 to 2.0x the cost (if not more) than me pulling apart the fuse box, repairing it and putting it back together. If I can't repair it, which will not take much time to discover, I will then recommend a new fuse box and not charge for my time to tear apart the old fuse box.
If I have to drill out rivets or plastic welds I will just redo when reassembling the box. Rivets are easy. Plastic welding takes a little bit of practice to learn, but not hard if you know how to solder.
I have learned a lot from you and I appreciate your diagnostic videos. I do not have all the tools but I have enough . What a great contribution you are making to the Auto Repair Industry. Going from the basics to the most extreme in diagnostics you are on the top of your game. I know many of your followers show the same respect I have for you. Take Care and be safe.
Very well done video. I would like to say that it can matter when it comes to providing power to a circuit like this. What we end up with here is basically connecting the load of Fuse 23 (20 Amps) to Fuse 22 (20 Amps). Now, I am NOT saying this will not work. It probably will. However, Fuse 22, which is a 20 Amp fuse, must now supply potentially both the 20 Amps load of itself (Fuse 22) and the 20 Amp load of Fuse 23. Also, now one (1) wire is carrying the current that was carried by two (2) wires (from the jumper to connection in fuse box). Picture one (1) wire from Fuse 22 going to the installed jumper, then fanning out to two (2) wires supplying the two (2) circuits.
I know that neither is likely to draw 20 Amps, more likely however possibly 10 Amps each, thus placing the maximum (or more) load on the 20 Amp Fuse 22, as well as the short wire between the jumper installed and where it connects in the fuse box. Again, this is not a criticism and I am not saying necessarily it will not work, just an observation.
A more robust fix, without replacing the expensive fuse box (which I totally understand not replacing), would be to install an external 20 Amp Fuse to the wire that connects to Fuse 23 (the load side), with the other end connected to where the battery positive comes into the Fuse Box. This would provide a separate 20 Amp Fuse for each 20 Amp potentially, (there IS a reason why 20 Amp Fuses were chosen for each circuit) load, more like it originally was. This would ensure that Fuse 22 does not blow due to possible overloading.
Finally, a possible example of how Fuse 22 could be overloaded would be IF it powers the lights which light up the instrument cluster and they are not LEDs, when the brightness is turned up (assuming the brightness can be controlled with a knob, or something), Fuse 22, assumed to already be very close to it's maximum of 20 Amps due to now powering the load of Fuse 23, in addition to it's own load, could be overloaded and blow. This is just off the top of my head to try and provide a possible example. There might be others.
This assumes that I correctly understand how the jumper was done. Maybe my understanding of it is not correct.. Probably would have been a good idea to measure the current on Fuse 22 (Fuse Box side of jumper), with all loads turned on, and to the maximum if anything is adjustable. Just as a quick check for this mod. Thanks for the video. Again, very well done video.
I was thinking the same thing. Providing an inline 15A fuse from B+ to the output of fuse 23 would be a better solution. As you said, if I understand correctly how it was jumpered.
Thank you Ivan! You are really working hard with all the work you got and then videos too!! I can’t wait to see the next one!!!
I love to watch you TH-cam content. I learn something new everytime. I would love to be able to diagnose problems the way you do.
Ivan, your getting quicker and quicker at finding the problem on certain vehicles. NICE Fix.
I know a guy that had a similar problem on his Dodge he found the whole fuse box was cracked and caused half of it to have no power flow.
I love your channel!
You are one of the best diagnostic techs around !!! So methodical. How many shops would sell this person a PCM and any other number of components and still not find the issue. Thanks
A common sense repair. No need to get an expensive fuse box plus work to get this truck back on the road. Thanks, Ivan.
Sitting in the chair next to the wood stove, sleet outside, watching PHAD videos.
Me too haha
Great troubleshooting skills Ivan, you save your customers a lots of money I bet he is very thankful for this repair. Take care thanks 😊
IVAN, AWESOME approach as always love the fix saved the owner some money as always thanks for sharing.
Excellent diagnostic and explanation , enjoyed the whole process , iam a technician too and im learning a lot from your videos , thanks for sharing ! Have a great day sir
Ivan, just another awesome fix. No parts required 👍
With out good electrical diagrams would taken a long time. Great job catching the mistake on the diagram!
Today’s vehicles make the schematic diagrams as much a needed tool as the scanners and basic hand tools.
You are the best Ivan. I watch all of your videos and you get some really tough diagnosis jobs and you always fix the problem. I am amazed at the knowledge you have. God Bless you.
Great diagnosis, and proof of failure.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Ivan (PHAD) for a very informative video. Great diagnostic work. Thumbs up
At least it wasn't a TIPM. I had to run my own relay on a 2014 Caravan to get the front blower motor to run. Apparently The climate control knob tells the TIPM to send a ground to the relay, which sends B+ to the resistor, but the ground comes from an integrated circuit on the TIPM and it wasn't sending the ground. The resistor gets a PWM signal from the controls then the resistor reduces the voltage for the blower to change the speeds. It's all computers talking to each other, even the fuse box! Had to tap a KOER fuse to send a ground to the blower relay.
Most shops would of replaced the PCM first haha. Good Job on the diagnose.
That was definitely the path of least resistance! Great diagnosis and fix Ivan!
Thanks Josiah! Any interesting diags in upstate NY recently?
Ivan great job as usual , i would have powered the circuit a little differently but im sure you considered other options and chose what worked best for you and the customer
I have jumped power wires several times to avoid buying a TIPM. great diagnosis!
I like your videos, you and S.M.A. are the best diagnosticians on the web.. Thanks for another lesson..
I love your critical thinking not just to diagnose but to fully investigate the root causes. If you just ran a jumper it would be "fixed" yet other wires could be affected and lead to future issues if not identified and corrected. Great video as always.
Based on all the recent videos, I guess the Thinktool scanner is Ivan's fav now.
Had a similar issue on a 14 Caravan recently. B+ was dead at the PCM no com. TIPM was internally opened. I own two Chryslers and don't mind working on them but along with a good spare tire, keep a spare TIPM in the trunk with it.
I was very curious when you checked the correct PCM fuse if you still had the jumper powering the PCM. The next shot looked like you did disconnect the jumper and I am sure you did, but shit happens. Of course that would have shown the fuse good, when it was in fact blown.
I was thinking the same tbing
Me too
It looks like he still had it connected. Now I wonder if that fuse was actually blown
Brilliant minds think alike.....
Thank you, I have a 2003 2500 5.7L waiting for a failure. I am ready! Great troubleshooting. Divide and decide the direction to go.
Very good repair Ivan. When out on the road & working for yourself a repair is a repair. However you achieve it, it can always be replaced later but you get paid & the customer happy. Well done Ivan 👏👏
These Dodge TIPMs are known to have problems. Had a 2009 Ram no start. Took to dealer and they knew what it was before even unloading from the trailer.
Ivan, it leaves me a bit short knowing there is something wrong in the fuse box. I don't know how comfortable I'd be with a truck like that. I think it would work on my mind quite a bit. You did get it running again with minimal time and no parts. I'm trusting your judgment and experience led to the right call on this one. Thanks for Sharing!
Excellent and quick diag and repair!
Wow you made that diagnosis look so easy wow
Ivan, great work as always
Had the exact same issue with my 2005 RAM 5.7 hemi, watched this video several times went outside and fixed my truck after 3 months of trying to find the problem. Thanx
Win 😎💪
I have had plenty of those fuses that show live as you tested them but if you actually pull it out the legs are corroded hence the live doesn't make it to the pin out of the fuse box. May be worth a look. I enjoy your videos keep up the good work.
Great Video. Thanks for posting.
Wow that was great work! Amazing actually! Thank you!
Excellent Diagnosis!
Another fine NPR Ivan, keep them coming
Ivan;gr8 work. Always like NPR! With Dodge there's always something dodgy especially when comes to electrical/electronics. Those fuse box/T.I.PM's are notorious for acting up☺👍💯.
Great diag. and repair Ivan....
It's IVAN the Invinceable! not terrible. Invinseable! Great Video as Usual, outstanding SIR!
As much as I enjoy these videos, they fill me with dread. I drive an 01dodge truck. Thank you.
You are probably one of the best diagnosticians I have ever seen. However...I am very curious why you did not check for a spread/pushed back terminal at the fuse? I have seen this a few times during my career. The fuse is good, but the load side terminal was the problem. Thanks for the reply, and keep up the good work! Tom. I am a BIG FAN!
This is a great diagnosis!
Great job Ivan. NPR & quick and dirty. Dodge with a bad fuse box, say it isn't so. LOL !
Good diagnosis Ivan. It is a bugger that as a general comment the vehicles in your part of the world have critical components fail while the vehicle is relatively young when compared to vehicles that are not in the snow belt, not just in the USA, but world wide. Like has been commented already, do you make a note on the fuse box or if there is an owners manual available, in the manual that you have altered a supply circuit and what the new fuse is for a circuit? It would be handy for the next repairer as a starting point.
Should have check the fuse prong and the socket
Ivan knows his stuff! It’s tough to diag with wrong blueprints but as show here it can be done.
I’d still like to know the cause behind the dead pin. Time & money, yeah, gotta do what you gotta.
This is pretty basic diagnostic, I'm surprised you would get called in but super job as always Ivan!
Probably could have run a wire to the positive battery post or power feed to fuse block. Just make sure it's 20 amp fused as close to the battery as possible. In the old days I don't remember so many problems with the fuse box itself. We have a Dodge Van at work and the fuel pump relay kept intermittently not working. We added an external relay and bypassed the fuse box completely, works like a charm. I don't understand building relays into the fuse block circuit board. That's just asking for problems.
Ivan is a master mechanic. Love his videos!!!!
Good Ole chryslers electrical problems lol great work.. always got some great diagnostics!!
My Dad is the only other person I have heard use "Prindle" to describe the transmission position indicator. :)
It's standard technician term :)
Ivan love your channel and great example of fault fixing I’m have my head wrecked at moment with a po935 and don’t know where to start do you be ever down Tampa direction or know of anyone with your expertise down here you could recommend
Ivan, Just went and looked it up for fun. They actually have it correct in the power/ground wiring diagram with fuse 23, but on the powertrain diagram it is showing fuse 19.
That's cool diagnosis, but can you take fuse box apart and repair it ? But nice power and ground checks! Awesome video ivan! Many thumbs up
Great diagnosis and "NPR" fix ivan! Agree that without a proper diagram, its going to be a difficult trace to find a broken wire/cracked solder.. Thanks for taking us along. Cheers!
wowo, you make house calls too. that's impressive. i learn alot from your vids.
Good job sharing
My best teacher Tks
Nice video. I see Alldata is always ready to trip you up, but true to you no parts required.
Good Stuff, thanks to you people like me can pay it forward to the next group!!
Nice work
Excellent diag Ivan i got set up one time with a simalar power loss issue the fuse tested good but no B positive coming out of the power distrabution center at the pin in the connector, I was certain it was a bad fuse box but i ended up pulling the fuse for the dead circuit to check for Green crusties well someone cut off the pin on one side of the fuse so naturally it would test fine but indeed open circuited in the fuse box, Till this day i allways do a visual to make a 100% sure. I love your Vids Keep up the Fantastic Work Buddy.
Hah I have seen a broken fuse leg once in my life. Definitely threw me for a loop 😂
Customer: Can I buy this fuse box at the auto parts store?
PHAD: What's an "auto parts store?"
Good job
If you want to hack in another power feed, I would use a separate sealed fuse holder (made exactly for this purpose) and fuse (ATC) originating from the proper power feed (BAT, IGN, etc.). Label fuse wire with a white label tie wrap and now you have basically recreated what is inside the fuse box. Cut the original wire feed and splice into the power output. I think you could also repair the power distribution fuse box, but this will take more time and tools.
This dude is the “Mad Scientist!” Kid on the movie Fsst & Furious!!!
0:50 when you said "it's already a sign" and couldn't help myself to not hear in my mind a song of Ace of Base - I saw the sign (and fuck me I was so sure it was an ABBA song :D)
I just went out side and for some reason thought of you. I was looking at my driveway with all this snow, hating the winter. Then for some reason I thought d#mn imagine shoveling or even snow blowing Ivan's driveway. That thing looks like it's a mile long lol.
2 thumbs up! Ivan is a champ!
Another ivan repair no parts required👌
What?
No bonus footage?! LoL 🤣😆
Nice save!
Before I watch the video I ran into this and it was the connector for the ignition inside the tilt steering column and only required a cable tie to fix. When the wheel was tilted it unplugged the connector because they made the harness a little too short and I want to see if this is the same issue Ivan finds.
Ivan for the win.
I've found some of those fuses are good but not making contact with the output connector in the fuse box. I always pull the fuses out to make sure the spade is not corroded. Could be that simple and have found many like that.
Thank you for your videos and your troubleshooting techniques. One question could you recommend a good starter oscilloscope? Thank you
It would depend on the excess amperage for the fuses, you are running 2 loads through a single fuse. Someone not knowing this has a fuse issue it would be confusing, for the 3 inches of wire in the box, you probably could go to the next higher fuse if you knew you did this and had a fuse issue. Serious melt the wire shorts probably would blow any size fuse for the 2 runs to the loads.
The fuse isn't just protecting that 3" of wire in the box, but all the wires leading from the box. If they can't safely handle the next size up current, you have a potential for an electrical fire.
@@russellhltn1396 And you know they're not sized for anything more than what current they're expected to be carrying, because that's an extra cost in manufacture.
Always OE diagrams lol. Great find as always sir
I see what you mean Keith ;) Especially after that Hyundai fiasco lol
I had a similar problem several years ago. I ended up running a parallel wire from the fuse box to the PCM.
You should consider making your own bulletin service of all the odd issues you have found.
interesting repair strategy
GOOD JOB.
Easy diags are just as welcomed as the hard ones. We learn from both.
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow solved it again ;D
Ivan does it again. He won't quit till he finds out what's wrong. Great job Ivan.
A bad IPM on a Dodge.. Never would have saw that coming lol
You should do a show and show what you bring in detail with you on your mobile Diag !