THE ACOLYTE Episode 7 Breakdown & Reactions | STAR WARS | The Geek Buddies
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- STAR WARS, LUCASFILM, and DISNEY released Episode 7 of THE ACOLYTE titled "CHOICE"! The Geek Buddies aka John Rocha and Shannon McClung bring you their SPOILER REVIEW to talk all the happenings on Brendok with Sol pursuing Osha as his Padawan, Torbin's foolhardy desire to get back to Coruscant, Indara's attempts to stop her fellow Jedi from violating the Brendok witches sovereignity, Mother Aniseya and Koril fighting back, and the horrible decision to cover it all up. There were FIREWORKS in this review!
The 8 episode series on Disney Plus from creator/showrunner Leslye Headland starring Amandla Stenberg, Lee Jung-jae, Manny Jacinto, Dafne Keen, Jodie Turner-Smith, Rebecca Henderson, Charlie Barnett, Dean-Charles Chapman, Carrie-Anne Moss and Joonas Suotamo.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro and Overall Thoughts on The Acolyte Episode 7
9:06 Sol Pursues Osha, Indara and Jedi Meet with the Coven, Anisaya's Mind Trick
33:40 Sol Ignores the Council, Torbin and Sol Confront the Witches, Indara Covers It Up
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Glad Michael is back to run up Rocha's blood pressure.
Haha! Please. That's just a Tuesday for a Latino.
I love your healthy debates, it's always refreshing to hear your takes in a civilized manner.
Agree.
@@hilneloms5382 Yep! Though, and this is unrelated to the Geek Buddies, just thinking of how friendly and civilized their discussions are, but I imagine myself having similar conversations with my friends and giving them the same respect and leeway as GB give each other and then I ask myself if I give the same respect and leeway to strangers and eehhh, I have to pause.
A good reminder to try to be fair minded with everyone even if, just on this channel, I’ve had people open up a reply with “you a bot?” type of reply to a comment I made (and even though they weren’t the ones I was replying to).
I get what Vogal is saying here and I think (and this is me being generous here) is that from Sol’s perspective he thought Mae and Osha were children taken by not just a cult but by Nightsisters. He sees 2 force sensitive children on a planet that is supposed to be uninhabited than sees a Zabrak woman who doesn’t look like their mother (Osha and Mae are human while she’s Zabrak) taking them back inside before anyone sees them. Than once inside he sees the witches using the force on these kids. Mix that with the whole divergence they’re looking for and talk of a ritual, weird planet alignment and than the witches taking over Padawan Tomen. Again this just shows how shit the writing is that it’s not really understood what’s and why these things are happening and you have to do mental gymnastics to make a guess.
@@IndianaJake lmao so if your daughter / son said I don’t like this family I wish I lived with the neighbors 😂 that gives the right for your neighbors to break into your house and say well I was concerned ? And she never said she wanted nothing to do with Mae she just wanted space she didn’t want to be hip to hip all the time
@@bigcoop2575no, but they would call child services (Child Protection Agency), as they would have just cause. It happens all the time. Some people are not great at parenting, and don’t see the harm they cause.
Yeah i get what your saying. Your a turd brain. Simple as that.
Can't help but think Mae and Osha will combine to one person and become Moesha, and then start a 90s sitcom
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought Sol came cross as a creepy groomer. I thought I was going crazy!
Nah it was werid.
Pedi
Same!
Yeah it was weird how hyper-fixated he was on Osha for no reason. He was like I must have this child
He's a dude... what did you expect Leslye Headland to do with him?
I think it's crazy to not acknowledge that they clearly tried to show that the squid games guy only saw snippets of the whole picture.
Acknowledging that doesn't mean he was right, or that the jedi are right, or that the actions he took to get to see those things were right. And I doesn't mean he himself doesn't see things skewed because his biases.
It's just a fact he saw things that to him looked bad. He made assumptions.
I can appreciate some things about this show. But this show is not good. Damn!!!
I can’t find one single thing I like about the show! When the last episode ended and the weird music played, I put my head through a wall.
You know i really fail to realize why this couldn't be combined with episode 3. The show should have just been in chronological order.
I could have seen where the order of this worked better as is, but like you said, I can see a story where they made this reveal much earlier (like midway point or whatever) and the bigger story is whether Osha/Mae go with Qimir, or tries to find forgiveness for the Jedi and/or what the larger fallout is for the Jedi Order (something Vernestra was concerned with).
By saving it this long and teasing us with it, it had to be a 105% foolproof reveal. I think it would have worked better like the way you say?
Doing it out of order was just a super lazy way to create mystery
@@Vulcanerd this really doesn't need to be in the mid point these flash backs don't reveal anything special and don't correlate with what's happening in modern time. These flash back episodes have done nothing but break tension in this show and destroy any momentum this show builds.
I’m very much in Prince Vogel’s camp (which makes me sound like I’m choosing sides and I’m not), but like the PT, the execution of many of the things in Acolyte is clunky.
What I’m in agreement with Vogel is that a series and cascade of bad decisions and unfortunate events lead to calamity.
And Shannon is right, I decided to immediately go back and rewatch/listen as well. She does yell Fire, before she is even on screen. You didn't hear it, because it was super faint and not what any of the people on screen heard either. They heard someone was on their way and then when they turn and see her, she only says, "Help me." And that's when horned mom goes into attack pose. It is terrible. If your complaint is that the Jedi were reacting poorly and not justified in their actions, you can't simply excuse those same poor overreactions by the Coven which is what the Jedi are responding to.
@@tjfassler1754 I think that’s part of the point though? Many a tragedy is not a single, historic moment, but a series of single moments that cascade into a calamity.
You say something, I react and respond, then you come back and it snowballs, etc.
"The execution could have been a lot better" could be the subtitle for The Acolyte.
I’m TOTALLY with John on this one. Sol’s obsession is so weird. He just sees 2 girls and wants 1?!? And yeah, they just see this whole different culture that they don’t know anything about, and just being like “they’re bad, the kids are in trouble,” was weird.
This episode should have been episode one.
If we start with the Jedi's folly and the cover up, then we understand who Mae/Osha are, and more importantly, why they could want to kill these 4 Jedi. That makes this story at least coherent, and doesn't piss people off by making them watch a penultimate episode that should be setting up the final conflict, but instead delivers what is essentially a bloated clips episode.
I think this is a fine episode, but the positioning in the story is TERRIBLE.
An excellent point. Hadn't even considered that and that absolutely changes how we see the show as a viewer.
It also gives us a solid entry point and sets up characters that we have the ability to care about, rather than feeling like the Twins shouldn't have been the focus of the show for 7 episodes.
I don't know how they're going to end this season in any satisfying manner, even if the last episode were to be over an hour long (which it won't be).
I’ve seen this expressed here and there, too, I can totally see it.
Make the “reveal” around the halfway point which defuses the series-long teasing and expectation building, but more importantly, it would allow for us to watch as Osha/Mae struggle with the decision to go with Qimir or to find forgiveness for the Jedi and/or what the practical fallout is for the Jedi Order in general (something Vernestra is concerned about).
That way, it doesn’t build up to a near impossible task, but we get to see more of Osha/Mae’s motivations and dilemma/struggle and we don’t get this clunkier storytelling.
Great point
This makes complete sense
Favorite point of this reaction is Shannon looking on as Rocha and Mike go at it! 😂 Break a leg on that part Shannon! 🤞🏼
I wonder if this was a microcosm of their relationship? I can imagine them being back at FSU and at a bar eating burgers after a movie and Rocha and Michael going back and forth and Shannon playing ref or occasionally interjecting with opinions.
But, Shannon did mention that he has kinda checked out emotionally from the show and is just kinda playing observer at this point, too.
I love watching Shannon during John and Michael's heated debate. The eye rolls made me laugh.
John: Explaining WHY the Jedi do what they do is not the same as EXCUSING what they do. Can’t possibly disagree with you more.
Yes, we all know that. But I don't agree on the WHY that was being laid out by Michael. That's the point of my criticism. My WHY is different than his WHY and that was what we were battling about. I hope to keep making you disagree.
The word "sacrifice" has a plethora of different meanings The Jedi jumped the gun & never established what kind of sacrifice was required. The Jedi were wrong for interfering outside the republics juridiction... Now I see why Torbin drank the poision⚗️🧪
George Lucus once said: "Stars is geared towards 12 year olds." However I don't see/hear 12 year olds online complaining only "adults" I respect everyones opinion but I have to always be mindful of that...
Here to support the channel. Even when I don't watch the show discussed I still watch to add to the numbers. Love you all
Sol's obsession with Osha did sort of border on grooming and felt weird at points. To Michael's point at the beginning, I think they were going for the "it's poetry, it all rhymes" theme with Sol & Osha and tried to mirror it with Qui-Gon & Anakin, but Qui-Gon wasn't really obsessed with Anakin in the way Sol is. If anything, the odd relationships in that instance were Padme & kid Anakin. I always felt Qui-Gon was lowkey macking on Anakin's Mom, he definitely went back to Tatooine at some point on the low 😂😂😂 But Sol just really felt creepy, maybe we're all jaded from all the celebrities coming out as groomers the past few years though lol
I don't understand Sol's obsession with Osha. He just met her. Indara was the level headed Jedi until she did a uno reverse at the end. Why did she decide to lie to the Council? I don't think the fight was that great. I tried liking this show but it is just bad.
He became obsessed before they even met 😭 he legit saw her from behind a tree and said, “Yep! That one!”
Agree completely with Vogel
Jedi aren't suppose to cut corners... smh
or be homesick
Agree with Vogel. It's the execution of The Acolyte in the writing and direction that lets it all down. Interesting ideas but it feels amateurish and blah in what they do with it. I can't tell if this was dulled on the studio level after they had the story or if it wasn't allowed to properly breathe by the hindrance of the run times of each episode.
Ok....did anyone else see what made Torbin unalive himself? What exactly was he guilty of? Being a shitty impetuous teenage Jedi? That's why he offed himself apologizing to Mae? Why???? Dam this show!!!! Lol
Yeah when it ended I was like wait so why did Torbin kill himself? He didn't even do anything bad
one person doesn't like it, one person does and the third person gave up on it...I think the show is doing exactly what it set out to do.
I noticed Sol's creepy obsession with the twins too. Even Indara was trying to tell him to mind his business. What the heck was that about.
He wanted a Padawan
@@MrNathansdad yeah he said that but the execution of it was horrible. It felt like a creepy obsession with the kid, like he had to have her no matter the costs. That's the way it came off was Sith like
@@adamdoom89 I think it's more to make JEDI look bad than as to just making Sol look bad, bro.
@@JP47471no no no it makes Sol look bad the jedi master and the jedi council told sol to chill out. So don't put this on the jedi Sol was going way off script.
Any jedi or legit anybody with any sense would have simply left the girls alone.
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord BUT STILL this show was TO MAKE THE JEDI LOOK BAD, to make them bad cops. It is obviously successful in doing that and you guys are having conniptions now even though you knew it would.
I literally didn't see it that way and I REALLY like Michael's explanation of the current episode and makes way more sense then me watching it live.
Which is why better writers were sorely needed for this show. If anything this show should be used in college courses on script writing "Does and Don'ts".
I don't get the grooming comments Rocha and some other people online are seeing. The first sight of Osha and Mae, Sol sees Osha being the compassionate on of the twins. Then when he sees all the suspectful ways the witches are teaching/raising them, it feel natural he wants to save them, especially Osha.
When Mae fails the Jedi test, he asks if he can do it his way with Osha, and his way is to tell her if she goes with them there are other children their for her to play with. Every time he opens his mouth to Osha he is manipulating her.
@@empyrealoneExactly. Grooming. It’s not hard to see it.
@@empyrealone To be completely fair, the actual testing method was different. With Mae, the first time, they let her answer and give her no indication on whether she was correct or not (or for the most part anyway). And with Osha, they let her answer and they tell her she's correct even when she's wrong -it isn't until Osha practically outs herself that they have the conversation (which this episode cuts to, instead of showing the rest)
likely intentional by Sol of course - I do think y'all have a point with the grooming allegations but I don't think it's as plain as y'all are making it sound
Sol is completely creepy and unredeemable. I completely agree with John that he comes off as a child predator. He sees two girls in the woods and he immediately wants to take them and keep one for his own like he found stray puppies. And then you think that in the present day, he has Mae locked to a table and he said "you're gonna listen to me". This is the man she witnessed kill her mother in cold blood, and then told her sister that she did it. This is an evil character who doesn't think he's evil. There is nothing likable about him. Now, the question is, is that what the show is going for? As long as the show acknowledges that he's not a good dude, and the twins kill him together or something like that, I'll be okay with it. But if they try to make him the hero in the last episode, then that's just all wrong.
From a certain point of view you're right, but I think the show was trying to show a bit of nuance to a few things. He sees a Force cult, sees 2 children, hears the tail end of a conversation that sounded like they were in cult-level danger, and then snuck around to investigate.
This is parallel to actual investigators stumbling upon a real life cult (admittedly with their possible internal corruption or systematic flaws). It also parallels that from the other side, this is a stranger coming in telling people their ways are wrong and their children have to be taken.
They won't spell out Sol being evil because they're going for a series of misunderstandings led to a tragedy, and a cover up felt like the compromise to give the girl a life and fulfill a dream (and conveniently cover up their culpability after the fact).
The word sacrifice was also meant to drive home that Sol, seeing inexplicable children among 50 cult members, was worried for them being killed for some ceremonial activated power.
Granted, it is also meant to parallel Invaders taking native children and indoctrinating them into what is "right" but not out of malicious intention and land grabbing.
As for Sol's connection to Osha, it seems they hoped we considered them connected through the Force: as one side lacks a padawan, while another side longs to leave the Coven life and be a Jedi, dreaming and drawing the symbol of the thing that could allow her to fulfill that hope. Sol himself wasn't just hungry for a padawan.
@@bajansamuraithere is no nuance his first reaction why to hide and stalk the children he's weird giving major drake vibes if you know what i mean.
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord the reaction was explained as caution because they thought they were on an uninhibited planet. Poor choice if it was random children, but if he saw a splinter cult witch he operated with caution.
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord Lack of nuance is the fault of the direction and script, but the visual intent was running into a splinter group of force users on a planet they thought was inhabited made him proceed with caution. Granted, I completely understand the way it came across to you and others.
I enjoy the opposing dialogue ….i don’t like where this show is going, but I need to see it to the end…just like LOST😂😂😂😂😂
The power of mannnyyyy, no match for one jedi master !!! I guess the force is better then the thread!!! Sol not saving both girls makes no sense, jedi master sol instead of force lifting the small children, I'll hold the collapsing bridge😂 jedi dumb! Torbin is home sick ? andara just doesn't do what the council says and sol i want a padawan , why ? 16 years later torbin drinks poison😂 andara gets stabbed 😂 kalnacca just goes away but gets killed by some one else! 😂 Sol just makes bad decisions 16 years later
John, I understand your frustration in seeing a POC take colonialist actions but I hate to break it to you, it happens all the time outside of the United States. Yes, the United States has a terrible history (and present) wrapped in colonial oppression but people all around the world suffer because of the harm taken by colonialism. Whites definitely deserve all the criticism for the age of colonialism but lets not pretend like primarily POC nations aren't still engaging in harmful cultural colonialism and cultural appropriations. I'd love to talk to you about the history, and current events of East Asia sometime. I think that a S. Korean actor in Lee Jung-Jae playing Sol is fascinating because of the role that Japanese colonialism and attempts at cultural erasure led to the current political situation on the Korean peninsula. I'd also love to talk to you about the ongoing actions by the Chinese government committing genocide against the Uyghurs and their active attempts to erase Tibetan and Mongolian culture within their borders. They're not easy conversations to have but it is short sighted to dismiss the episode because there is a depiction of cultural colonialism that has mirrors in the present day real world that makes you uncomfortable.
unfortunately, as I watch the rest of the episode, I don't feel like you are open to any opinions that differ from your own based on your dismissive nature towards Vogel trying to non-emotionally discuss what actually happened in the show. I'm genuinely sorry that The Acolyte isn't doing it for you but if you're interested in having a conversation after you've cooled down and are open to an actual conversation, I'd be happy to talk modern history with you. It probably wouldn't change your view of this episode or the show, but it might broaden your perception of colonialism and cultural genocide and oppression.
@@cordewrenDude. Relax. We’re friends. We’ve been debating playfully as friends this way for 30 years. He knows not to take my passion personally and I know not to take some of his tones personally. We even laughed about it after the show.
Some of y’all, I swear. 😂
@@JohnRochaSays I know you are friends and I am glad you were able to joke about it after the show. I've been watching your channel for years, mostly the Star Wars and GOT/HOTD content but this was the first time you acted openly dismissive of your friends' thoughts and it showed in Vogel and Shannon's reactions. Don't be surprised when viewers react to that. But I am glad you could joke about it. However, I still think you are in need of a good conversation to broaden your understanding of your (very understandable) limited understanding of colonialism. Your view is clearly very Euro/American focused.
This whole things looks, sounds, and feels like a bad fan flick. I mean it almost feels like they are being bad on purpose. It is not getting better.
I love when I have a Grek Buddies waiting for me!
Wookie impression was on point…..bravo! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Is this show not about how the Jedi are abusing their power? Why is John getting outraged that this is happening in the show?
Great episode review guys I loved the debates about this episode on all sides 👏🏾🔥🔥🔥
A Little Bit of Everything channel had a very rational look at this episode with great points. Getting too emotional or nitpick prevents you from catching that Indara may not have even contacted Council. She did not. Sol, Torbin, AND Mother Koril caused all of this. Mother Anysseya made everything worse by turning into a Smoke Monster. Lots of mistakes by most parties caused this situation.
Thanks for some really well balanced discussion guys you never let us down. As an indigenous person from a former British colony (Aotearoa New Zealand) I soooo agreed with Rocha's indignation. "Bitch what were you doing in the house?!?!" is the best comment ever LOL. But I really appreciate a good debate 😜👍 To me Indara was the voice of wisdom and caution in this episode. Just wish Torbin and Sol would have heeded her. I think mother Aniseya "going smoke" and taking Mae with her was just a means to get her away quickly from what was about to go down between mother Korril and Torbin. Sol just thought it looking scary automatically meant it was evil and killed her preemptively...and wrongfully. Speaking of which I feel sorry for Mae who lost everyone she knew, and was judged as less worthy of saving because of her culturally appropriate marking. When she later reunites with her sister she gets rejected again for (some) wrongs she wasn't actually guilty of. I mean yeah she started the fire but it wasn't to kill Osha it was to destroy the Jedi crest because she felt rejected that her sister wanted to be a Jedi and leave her behind. That Sol and the others then implied Mae was responsible for what occurred was really disappointing though they technically didn't lie. After all Mae DID start the fire and everyone WAS lost but the 2 things weren't actually linked like they made out they were. Despite the continuing writing issues I find the story really thought provoking #istilllovestarwars ✌️😄
The Jedi are absolutely in the wrong, but that’s the whole point. We’re not supposed to be siding with them. We’ve been waiting to see what they did on Brendok that was so bad it would send some of them into isolation and cause Torbin to kill himself, and we got that answer. I didn’t interpret this episode as justifying what the Jedi did.
However, the execution was absolutely lacking, but I’m with Vogel on liking the ideas in this show and just wishing it was done better.
In the not care camp but I love supporting the geek buddies. You guys are amazing!
I like how this episode paralled real world humankind history. Fear and prejudice have lead us to do horrible things either intentionally or unintentionally to our fellow man. Just last month here in Finland, a 34 year old far right winger tried to stab two 12 year old boys of immigrant background, injuring the other.
In all of this, there are a few allowances I'd make for the interpretation of events. Sol (nor the audience) know what is happening when Aniseya and Mae start to turn to black mist. Some people think they're teleporting, I think they're casting illusions to hide themselves as they use the power to move themselves away from a situation or from being visible while controlling an opponent (Kelnaccal) to do their bidding.
That said, none of them could see the witches, but they were all still right there. Master Indara breaking their psychic control over Master Kelnacca probably just caused them to pass out from the strain. She didn't necessarily kill them in that moment, but she'd still want the cover up because incapacitating them would have led to them dying in the collapsing and exploding fortress (except for Mae, who obviously survived, and possibly Mother Koril, who set the cloak, but wasn't seen chanting in unison or passed out, unless I missed her on the one viewing).
Another great convo, fellas. Can't wait for next week's podcast ^_^
It's hilarious to hear everyone talking around what Leslye did and how uncomfortable it made you all feel
when John got on his rant at 7:00 after he gets going Vogel stirs it up and eggs him on with that shit eating grin and head bobs 😲🤭 and people, i was here for it. 🥰😂🙏 Michael was giving some amazing face as John was tearing it up!!!!!!! 🤣
7 weeks is not long enough however, once the twins mom got into his head to go home. Anything to get him to go home he is going to do….I think the Nightsisters thought that would get them to leave.
They’re not established as Nightsisters.
Oh, no, did the 1x7 video get taken down? I wound up catching this episode before your reaction, Rocha, and I wanted to circle back to it, but am not seeing it atm.
I've been waiting all day for this review and couldn't wait to hear yall thoughts. 🙂
Jedi out here with no knock warrants
To Shannon about Indarra not rebutting Sol's statements to Torbin, she did. She did it separately as not to rebuff him in front of her Padawan.
Not sure if this is just me but hasn’t breaking and entering always been a Jedi thing. Obi Wan was sneaking around the clone base in AOTC.
Have any of you guys watched Supacell on Netflix yet? Maybe discuss next Geek Buddies show
The Jedis on this planet reminds me of a Star Trek mission , violating the prime directive. I love your review I see all your points.
john sounds upset
Very passionate.
I agree with Rocha this reminds me of episode 3 when I felt like religious cops come to break up families taking their kids and strip them from their rituals by force (no pundit intended) because they didn't understand minorities and culture rituals. It's a dark cop story where they cover their mess and blame someone else for their crimes to be villain. Think story is good just not put together right if it's a revenge story on bad cops. Jedi are the villains. To some, I see this as the news
I love this panels passion for the topic, I greatly appreciate it.
40:07 Yes & didn't happen because Kelnacca was fighting back the Mind Control as can be seen momentarily 🙂 Beautiful Live Act Star Wars episode that i streamed at late night in a dark room via D+ 🙂 MC Witches dying after connection breaks has been used in movies / telly shows before so it sorta makes sense 🙂
It's bad writing. Rocha isn't a writer, so he's no expert. It was Indara who told Sol let's split up and you go investigate this area. Stop saying it's all on Sol, when it's Bad Writing in generalities. I am a writer, I am a writer, I, don't write stories but I am a writer. Indara told Sol to go investigate the area -- on a planet they did not even expect to find any lifeforms at all. He sees two children, and they have the force -- Yeah it surprised him, yeah it made him not quite know how to act properly or perfectly. Big deal, the writers dug themselves into a hole by spending 180 million on a show, that hell Shannon and Mike could have wrote better for 2-3 million.Lee Jung Jae is trying to act his ass off in a half-ass show in a language he doesn't even speak. Sol is still the best actor on the show. Sorry if he I guess went all crazy in this episode. At least he didn't throw it in.
I just read this comment. You’re no writer, bud.
And also I said CLEARLY in this review that this show had bad writing. Not only aren’t you a writer, you’re not a good listener either.
Love you guys
I am going to re-watch the first 5 episodes prior to episode 8 and in doing so assume Koril is inside Qimir's body. Wonder if that will help me make sense of things.
I agree with all Mike has to say. The intent is executed badly. There's been clunky execution throughout this series but some fascinating lore and odd choices made.
I'm having more fun watching the discussions for this show than watching the show itself. On to the finale!
Also, what happens when a Jedi commits a crime? Is there Jedi jail? Are they banished? Are they "retired"?
We have heard the Jedi’s arrogance and hubris is their undoing for years now. What we haven’t seen is the Jedi at their PEAK of power and reverence and it’s so frustrating that people think this story is doing or telling us anything “new”. We get it, you need to connect it to TROS because that’s where it’s going but make the dialogue stronger, there’s great action and nuggets of great teasing going on and they chose a second flashback episode in an 8 episode series.
Yeah, I still think if I was isn Sol's position when Mama turns into a smoke demon and Osha was also smoking off (thinking she's in danger) he kills her. Cuase yeah it all could have been cleared up if she's like I need to help my kid.
But you don't think the fact that you broke into their place without doing any full study of their culture should affect your violent reaction?? Like why should she have to placate Sol when Sol was the one who fabricated his fear of what was going on in their own culture and barged into their house to steal their children from them.
@@JohnRochaSays Oh I totally agree with your point that they were in the wrong for busting in and even if it was an aggressive maneuver from her that it's not justified on her part. I'm not trying to justify his action morally. I'm simply saying you put me next to someone and they start turning into a smoke monster I'm gonna freak tf out lol.
@@Grimbear13 Lol! Well that is totally understandable.
@@jamespaterson3065 AGAIN...this is a ridiculous statement. If they don't break into their home, Aniseya never messes with Torbin's mind. This is all the Jedi's fault. Not the witches.
I agree with the outlaw, you don’t break into people home , then try and justify killing someone as misunderstanding
So one thing from this episode that idk if I'm ready to give them credit for this being a good idea or an accident that could explain some questionable other stuff. Is them commenting that their symbiotes or whatever are identical. The one thing that made me think of is that is why Sol couldn't tell them apart by sensing them in the Force and why Smilo-Ren was duped by Osha when she first showed up and it wasn't until close inspection he realized it was the twin... but they haven't proven themselves to me as competent writers for me to assume they thought that far ahead... if they talk about it next episode I'll give them their flowers... but yeah this series is gonna leave a lot on the table for "season 2" that isn't gonna happen.
MAN!!!! THAT WAS AN EXCITING AF!
When the Geek Buddies BREAK IT DOWN, THEY BREAK IT DOWN!
I think they should've merged 3 and 7 to give us ONE MORE EPISODE land this thing.
All of this was the reason why Torbin was the first on screen Jedi to take his life? If anyone should feel guilty it should be Sol. Sure he’s the one who set this in motion but he didn’t kill anyone nor was it his intent to.
Then why wouldn’t you if you’re Aniseya tell them Osha can go when they insist on taking them? Instead you turn into a demonic smoke monster and are surprised when Sol stabs you. Followed by the soap opera moment of I was going to let her go with you, then why not lead off with that?
That end credit song was so awful too haha, would never believe that who go with a SW project. Sounded like a generic 50 Shades of Grey song.
Oh my God...I enjoyed this review so much. Rocha was bringin that passion. Also, that whole "Shmi didn't turn into a Smoke Monster" had me dead. You guys all made some valid points. I don't necessarily have an opinion on the show. I enjoy it and look forward to your breakdowns. It does bother me that the 3 of you see ways they could've vastly improved the show and as one of you said, "many executives signed off on this." Things were suppose to be better when Filoni started running things. With the exception of ANDOR, why haven't we seen major improvements in the live-action shows. They have not missed a beat as far as the animation shows go. Why is live action so different?
At 56:02 - what are they doing that is "clearly some dark side shit"? (Unless you were saying that as "this is what the Jedi are saying to themselves")
It's established in Star Wars that witches' abilities come from what's identified as the Dark Side of the Force. I think this is, in part, why Sol is wary of Koril when he first sees her because Zabrak are from Dathomir and the Jedi are familiar with the Nightsisters, the "Witches of Dathomir". Manipulating the Force to have potentially created life has been coded as Dark Side. And the use of the ability to transmogrify into dark mist is presented like Dark Side ability. (The Nightsisters do this with green flame and mist.)
But plenty of witches have used their abilities for good or positive: the Mountain Clan on Dathomir appear to be Light siders. Merrin uses her Nightsister abilities to aid people and works with Cal Kestis and the refugee Jedi. If you hold to the Bendu's view of it, the Force is the Force, Light and Dark together. It's the use of the people that determines "good" or "bad" outcomes.
Sol got a weird case, why is he around? Lmao
John is mad for all the wrong reasons. This episode was bad, poorly written, poorly directed, poorly acted, and it was stupid, it’s not that it was about colonization or whatever. 😂
‘Or whatever’
Whether you liked the episode or not the colonialism themes are glaring and obvious.
I’m glad a SW property finally addressed the problematic nature of the Jedi taking children from their parents.
@@notabot-br1lq it’s not literal colonialism my bother in Christ. It’s about the themes. It is the thematic aspect as John described. Outsiders coming into a different culture’s home and taking their children away because they believed their culture to be superior to the parents’ culture.
And I don’t know why you injected wiping out the witches on a topic about colonialism. You seem to be confusing genocide with colonialism.
Who has take college level ethnic studies courses including Native American and African American studies 🙋. I know what I’m talking about.
@@garfieldGG Imagine going thru life being this oblivious to obvious things. I guess that’s why you watch my show and no one watches yours. 😂
There's definitely been colonial subtext in this show
"When the Acolyte gets good, you go "wow this is decent"" they should put that on the poster as a rave review, lol
Hahahaha yea… not high praise.
None of this conversation would be neccesary if the show was well-written.
Indara didnt even care about her Padawan after he was mind assaulted and later almost murdered by a wookie. She sees his face torn up and shows no concern..
I'm so curious to why the criticism about this show (mainly lack of logic, bad dialogue) isn't raised in other star wars content, because I do believe those things happen in all of star wars (except Andor) including the original trilogy. If you take star wars to be serious you're going to fail in enjoying it. It's funny to me when sometimes people say why can't it be like Game of thrones. Andor is the only thing that comes close to an adult star wars content. Star wars in it's conception was always meant to be goofy, cheesy and for children. Only when you accept this will you enjoy it. That's what I'm doing with this show. And I'm having fun.
I believe there's an article out there that they would be open to more seasons. But Lesley also stated that this story has a definitive end. So we shall see how it goes next week. I really enjoyed this episode though and having more fun with it than others. but I can see and understand some of the valid complaints others may have with it. Great review though 👍
I think Torbin's use of the term "symbiote" refers to the nature of Osha and Mae needing to exist together in a symbiotic relationship as two parts of a single whole. This differs from the Force Dyad concept, which is two individuals connected through the Force for specific, powerful needs.
I wonder what would happen to the other if one of them were killed. Would it affect their relationship to the Force/Thread? Would they not be able to live without the other one alive?
The symbiotes are the midichlorians.
Basically, everyone was right, and everyone was wrong. Also, everyone was dumb, except for Indara. I still don’t get why Torbin wanted to drink the poison and die. What did he do that was so wrong?
I actually really love this moral divde that you John, and Mike are on. I love when you guys agree but damn hearing your arguments (John I'm 100% with you and I hate that the jedi are portrayed like this honestly) are really fascinating. I love Psychology and sociology and ethics, so this debate on who was in the wrong, and the differences between this act and what happened with Quigon and Smee was so good...
You meant Shmi, unless Captain Hook was lurking nearby?
The show was...ok? But the commentary is making my day 😂
You guys cracked me up today! Great episode. As far as the show, I side more with Vogel on this one. I also see it as a point of view for Sol. We might not agree with it because we know the truth, however, I see how Sol might think things are the way he sees it.
On the upside of this series Dee actually have people who can have a discussion about what we see in this season
Theres a large mining site on the planet, who built it? When was it built? How did the Witches end up there?
Wow. I always thought everyone was exaggerating when they call Rocha a woke shill. They are right
Leave the little girls alone Sol.
Love the channel John & am all for a passionate argument & have been one to partake from time to time but was so grateful to have Michael back for this as it was quite frustrating & likely wouldn’t have been able to hear you out w/out a counter.
I don’t want to suggest that any of the issues you’ve raised aren’t points to be discussed, rather I think it’s exactly the point rather than as seemed to be being suggested an inherent flaw in the material.
An analysis w/in the framework of colonialism would be an interesting piece to generate discussion but your approach here seems to imply that Leslye either knowingly or unknowingly are casting the Jedi in that role & being Jedi, saying that’s ok. Everything I’ve seen from Leslye suggests to me that she’s tried to be thoughtful & deliberate about her choices w/ this show (her success in that regard is a different issue) so I think she deserves a more charitable view.
The analogue that I considered to possibly be more what they might be going for is of a Gvt raid on a certain religious cult leader’s compound in 1993 (being obtuse as I never can tell when defence to actual historical events get instantly deleted from U📺 thus wasting my time to write in the first place).
As Obi’s nostalgic “defenders of peace and justice” unchallenged & self regulating Republic police force, it is a useful exercise to consider the complicated question of intervention. When is it right, when is it wrong, when & how is it justified to do so w/out permission. We have police in our own world doing wellness calls by both knocking & forcing the encounter (but really the knocking is just a nicety as there is no actual choice for the person on the other side of the door, if they don’t answer, it will be opened forcefully).
It’s also worth considering that Force sensitive children are also inherently potential weapons / threats if being trained for nefarious ends. Which I think can fairly be said is what Sol believes he is seeing influenced by his own wants and biases.
Jared Bauer (formerly of Wisecrack) recently did an vid looking back on Nolan’s The Prestige that I happened to watch very recently & so was top of mind that I think raises some relevant history wherein those who in their day would be considered “progressive” supported contemporary intellectual & “scientific” inquiry that today we (& possibly they w/ hindsight & new context) would consider abhorrent.
I fear that if we don’t at least try to engage w/ the material in good faith when it challenges us then we’ll just end up w/ pablum. Since ep3 I’ve occasionally been saying in various comment sections that I’ve been enjoying the CONSTRUCTIVE conversations that the show has provoked. So even if the show has its flaws, I find value in that at least.
"The directing was clunky." You might say the direction was "Maclunkey"
Gotta agree with Shannon mentioning the black smoke thing. That incident itself shoukd nean Sol cannot remain a Jedi. Why would you turn into dark side smoke to save your kid? It just wasn't explained properly.
I'm on team Sol saw things as threat to Osha and Mae from the moment he saw a Zabrak show up. That sets up his concern which his emotionality builds upon to ramp up his obsession in this. Otherwise, it doesn't hold up. (It doesn't really hold up now, but that has to do with the Cliffs Notes approach to the storytelling in the writing.)
I mean that’s species profiling, but okay. It’s not like the Jedi haven’t aggressive fucked stuff up in their history too. But like most things in life when your people do something, it’s cool. But if other people you don’t know do it then it’s an issue.
@@JohnRochaSays It is profiling. And it's a whole lot of assumption on his part. Who's saying it's cool? I'm not condoning it nor saying it's right. It's not supposed to be condoned. It's not even supposed to be sympathetic. It's showing you the mindset to provide context not to justify it. It's showing the mistakes of the situation and Sol's complete misread of it all.
I like the exploration of Jedi philosophy.
The Jedi needing a Paduan is like someone needing a pet. Sorry, the Jedi does not operate this way. George Lucas wouldn't write his Jedi characters like this.
Rocha would definitely be a Sith…..my man got to much passion flowing through his veins lol
one scene showing barron planets would been enough to explain
I couldn’t tell what the timeline was at all in this episode. The weird obsession seemed unwarranted. Felt like a clip episode they tried to rush some plot into because they ran out of money.
I tried to give the show grace but it’s not good. Think they made the mistake of making the two least interesting characters (the twins) the main characters. This flashback wasn’t worth the wait.
Acolyte, the show without an Acolyte
Fun and fiery debate. From a storytelling perspective, you need to see why the Jedi would violate the sanctity of this coven of witches. You need to see their motivation from purely a plot and character standpoint. You don't have to agree with it -- and they are clearly making a case against the sketchy policy of the Jedi taking Force-sensitive children away from families to train them in hopes of not losing them to the Dark Side; something heavily debated since the prequels and a key part of both Rebels and the Obi-Wan Kenobi series -- but it needs to be there. This was one of the unsettling things about the third episode where the Jedi showing up felt imperial. This at least offers context from their side of the story to demonstrate how they felt justified, or fell with all the dominoes of their actions, without condoning their actions.
So it was incumbent on Anaseya to explain what she's doing to the thugs who've broken into her home..... again
Exactly. It wasn't.
And all she knows is that they want her kids. She has no idea if they will employ violence against the rest of the coven in order to get to the girls.😢
@@jamespaterson3065 NO...because NONE of that happens if the Jedi don't stick their noses into their business with their culturally insensitive and disrespectful approaches including breaking and entering into their homes. Because again, they have NO IDEA what these witches are about or what their intentions are and neither do we.
@@JohnRochaSays PREACH brother! 🙌🏽
Here to support the podcast, I am just curious what is gonna happen in the end….
Spoiler question:
If the witches have the ability to control a full grown seasoned JEDI, they have to know THE JEDI COUNCIL will have to destroy these witches right? No one can live, right?