What makes or breaks a show for me is the message, character arcs, and the finale. This show failed in all three areas for me. I guess we are supposed to be happy that two killers ended up together? Sol made a mistake out of ignorance and impulsivity, killing Aniseya because she turned into a smoke monster and started turning Mae into smoke. Sol remained tormented by guilt. Osha chose to deliberately and slowly force choke Sol to death, Mae stalked and killed Indara and Torbin. Neither Twin shows remorse. Indara did not do anything wrong. She and Kelnacca were there to remove Sol and torbin, and when the witches violated Kelnacca's mind, Indara freed him which accidentally killed the witches. Mae and Osha do not seem concerned about the complexity of the situation, or the witches role in it, or even the fact that they are one being split in two. They are very unlikable characters. I actually liked Yord and Jecki, Sol and Qimir were intriguing.
Someone in the live chat mentioned how Sol was training younglings at the temple on Coruscant when Indara dies so how do you pin that on him. Then my addition to that is there are witnesses to Mae killing Indara which we see in... episode 1? So we have witnesses and records of Sol not being anywhere near Indara when she dies /and/ we have witnesses who saw Mae do it so...
Damn, Rocha made a superb point that swapping the actresses for Vernestra and Indara might've definitely been far more effective in hindsight. Key word being hindsight.
When Mae knocked osha out took her clothes and left to either be killed Darth silver fang, or wild animals! after telling quimir I quit my sisters alive this changes everything , but now in episode 8 u want us to believe they love each other!?😂😂😂 And another thing if they are the same person why can't they sense the other is still alive? No answers just go with it!!😂😂😂
There is cool stuff in the show for sure. I think you nailed it. If you described the story, it's actually really interesting and cool. But I just simply lost interest in the central story, as the twins are just switching back and forth on the fly in a matter of hours?
I agree, too much flip flopping with no evidence/reasoning for it. I didn't find the twins at all interesting. I'd rather seen more about Jecki, Yord, Sol, and Qimir. And Bazil. wtf was that sabotage? zero reasoning for it.
I was listening to someone's podcast who knew someone close to Lucasfilm say that they were scared to put out a show centering on the Sith because no one would like it. So, you get this show. If you took these characters and put them in another show to explore the next steps or continue on with Darth Plagueis watching Quimir and Osha wondering which one should he keep. Just get better writers or script editors.
I could easily come up with/write a story for this show that doesn't have the twins in it at all. Have the Jedi discover a vergence in the Force on Brendok, have the Sith already know about it, and are hunting down the Jedi team that was sent to Brendok, to keep the Jedi from discovering that the Sith are still around and are experimenting with the vergence
@@thejediofchicago6580 absolutely…there is a cool story in here…that is what so frustrating and makes me hate the show the more I think about it…it’s weird, I definitely enjoyed watching the show at times but as a whole I’m kinda starting to hate it… I feel like my enjoyment was based entirely on “wow the sith are out there, when will they show up, this cool!” …like an excitement and fear about what was coming but not what was actually happening on screen….
@@tylerhenk87 I do too especially with kids, but Amandla has been acting for a while and some of the 180's her characters did - combination of bad writing, bad directing, and bad acting. I just didn't buy it. And the whole "we are one...together as two" chant or whatever it was was akin to the Star Trek episode "And the Children Shall Lead" when they were calling the angel. I just rolled my eyes.
My take is that Qimir grew powerful enough and "killed" Plageuis.. or so he thought. So he believes he's the new Sith lord but Plageuis cheated death and now lurks in the shadows
@@tiniestavenger6329 What if Qimir doesn't know about Plageuis, but Plageuis felt or sensed Qimir and Osha on that planet. He went to find out what or who it was that made that happen.
Trying to remember if I've ever heard Shannon curse as much as he did in this episode... Overall, I'm with you guys on Acolyte: lots of interesting ideas that weren't explored/executed properly. Very disappointing because I loved Russian Doll.
I would have liked to have seen the actresses and/or characters flip in Ahsoka and Acolyte. Put Shin Hati as the Acolyte, and Mae or Osha as Baylan Skoll's apprentice in Ahsoka.
They can't even decide what Basil is. Green bald lady says to the team "use the "tracker""... like he's a sniffing dog or an object... but both Yord and Mog treated Basil as a fellow team member. Yord learned his language and communicated with him. And Mog also showed to be familiar with him, saying: "Basil! You're alright, what a relief.". So either green bald lady is a disrespectful jackass towards other species, ... or Basil is not more than a "dog" and Yord actually learned to... "talk dog" at the Jedi Academy.
Bazel (??) works for the Jedi. Sol pulls up a targeting computer to shoot Mae down. Bazel knows this is against Jedi teachings (and that Sol seems a little out of control) so he rips wires to stop anything horrible happening. Not that any of this is clear, hence so many people getting confused (don't blame them). One of (many) gripes, but the one that sticks out at the moment - Osha and Mae reunite. They talk. They _fight_ - and not 5 minutes later they're back to being twin sisters and working together. How'd that happen? They were at each other's throats, and then they were escaping together. So much of this show just feels disconnected. I care not about the gender of writers, directors, actors - what I care about is skill and talent. That's why I struggled with this one. I just want you to tell me a story - that makes sense...
I'd rather they did a "season 2" via a comic, honestly. Some of the ideas and themes are solid, but the execution has been ok to awful. A comic would allow for the fluctuating pacing and allow them to be as dialogue & action heavy as they wanna be
I dont believe Sol is wrong for killing the mother, unpopular opinion, I felt that he was trying to protect , if he did not act, folks would say he was foolish for not being quick to act, dont think he was selfish
The choreography in this episode (and series) and some of the moments (like the kyber crystal being bled) were cool. But damn was this series was just a miss for me.
Can Lucasfilm just hire professional writers and editors... and let them do their job? Please! As someone who works on high budget entertainment "products", i can say that this stinks of "Cool ideas thrown on a white board and stitched together by committee".
I actually liked the scene with the senator raincourt and vernestra and this plot line. The problem is this came far to late in the season (with just 20 minutes to go!) It should have been something that happened in episode 6, so help us understand more the pressure vernestra was under etc. There was a line in episode 5 about a possible sentate hearing, but this should have been in episode 1 to establish this plotline earlier.
I think we need movies and show to go FORWARD in time. Hundreds of years after Skywalker saga, in the in-world legend Rey or whoever reestablished the Jedi as a more humane order. In the first movie we get to follow a person who stumbles upon a Sith Holocron (Revan?) who then learns about the Sith of old and we get to follow that person fall deeper into the dark side and culimnates in him/her establishing the beginnings of a new Sith Empire. Then we'd have somewhat of a blank slate with some world building done already. With very little baggage of what's been done before. But this would also mean that they need to find their own Kevin Feige for SW. Someone who can have creative oversight and whose main focus is to create GREAT and compelling stories.
All great thoughts, and I wanted to say something on every point you made. Kudos for making people feel like they wish they were right there with you to chat. Buddies indeed. 💚 But I ll just say: (a) hands down, the best light saber duels, sure, but also top 5 action choreographies across Disney+. (b) just disappointing really. Because of the clear potential. Should have gone muchhh darker (which I also hope they do with the tv Harry Potter) (c) a thought I didn’t hear you make: so, Osha went from not being able to use the Force to being soooo much stronger than Sol, and immediately upon hearing a throw away one line confession? What? It’s just so unbelievable. Even Goku in Dragon Ball gets hammered a million times before upgrading, and everyone believes it, no matter how ridiculously high the upgrade is…build up matters. (d) a show not understanding how time works and not developing stories and archs bases thereon also bothers me sooooooo much, Rocha. It also pissed me off in The Bear S2, which I still absolutely love. One week internships, not matter the restaurant, does not support that much of a personality and skill change in people, definitely not Richie, especially considering what he was doing in his first few days. Just say it was one month, give the characters the time. You can still just say whatever additional time that means they have to open the restaurant is tight and show the chaos and intensity leading up to it. It bothers me so much because they are such easy fixes, which sadly was also the reason I was disappointed with this show. Easy fixes. Unexplainable misses. Anyway. (e) 🩷 y’all!
It sucks because in episode 1-2 I was impressed with Amandla. The writing got worse, and trying to get high emption out of anyone in this show is brutal. Any screams or yells are not believable.
1:07:35 I agree with Roca on this!. At this point, I dont have any faith that Disney would do a good job with Yoda and Plagueis, should this show somehow get a 2nd season! Especially given their recent history with the likes of Luke, Boba Fett, Obi Wan, Thron etc.
What is sad about the streaming era is that it used to be fairly normal for a series to have a weak first season and still get a chance to hit their stride in the next, but now everything gets axed.
The only good thing was Sol deserve what was coming. Vermestra putting the “blame” on Sol is not wrong - as a wise Jedi once said “from a certain point of view “ For me some inconsistencies & unnecessary plots were : 1) The Sith has the rule of only 2. So if Qimir took on Mae and later Osha , wouldn’t Darth Plagueis have eliminated Qimir first ? 2) the 2 girls were suppose have a strong connection and bond through the series . At the end both at a blink of an eye agree to “separate “without any thought. 3)how does Vernestra know her past appreciate was involve ? 4) Brazil in the past episode appear to “know” Mae was disguising as Osha . So why did he sabotage Sol to capture her ? The biggest unnecessary click bait is Darth Plaguies . Totally unnecessary and does not add any value to the series. Yoda end credit is also unnecessary
Loved your guys' conversation. It wasn't just 60+ mins of screaming "this show sucks" like some people do. You touched on the things you liked but elaborated on what was bad and presented other ideas that could've worked well. For me, I enjoyed it although I admit there were many flaws. Like Vogel said, Star Wars has become like a favorite sports team. Even in their worst years, there was always a player or two I loved watching that kept the season somewhat enjoyable.
Star Wars can and should be so much better than the last few shows, I think thats where most of the fan frustration comes from. No excuse making shows of this low quality.
Were we supposed to hate Sol? He was a little creepy and he killed Aniseya but I still don't hate him. The way Aniseya died felt like an accident not intentional. Vernestra was so unlikable and the actress was terrible. Qimir was interesting at the beginning then he just turned into the guy with the exposed arms. 😂
I don’t know if you’re supposed to hate him, per se. I thought the actor did a really good job, but I didn’t like Sol. I think you can like Sol as a deeply caring, warm and skilled Jedi who is misguided. Or you can dislike him for being so selfish and myopic?
@@elbebinpr One of the things I suggests for the series is start the series earlier or have a flashback to Osha as a young padawan still at the Jedi academy learning from Sol and Sol being a doting, father figure who always worries about Osha and Osha trying to be a model daughter/student. While there, you could have also included Osha becoming friends with Yord and maybe you see them form a rivalry where they’re constantly trying to one up each other. Then Sol becomes like your best friend’s dad who you like or even look up to. They could have done so much more, but Michael mentions this, which is I don’t know if they could have crammed all that in in a ~35 min, 8 ep season. That’s just a bottleneck almost none of these shows are being helped by.
@@Vulcanerd I agree with you. You have excellent ideas. They would have made this series some much better. These episodes needed to be longer. They could have done so much more. It's too late now.
I enjoyed the finale for what it was, 40+ minutes of SW TV but as a whole the series was bad. I ended up giving the series a 5.5/10, mainly because it felt like it was juggling too many storylines for the short run times of the episodes/season. I could easily see a way of re-writing this season and not having the twins in it really at all. I wish the Senator/Vernestra (even though her character was extremely wooden and flat) storyline interspersed throughout the season, rather than last couple of episodes, there should've only been one flashback episode (episode 7) and have the Brendok Jedi (aside from Sol) all die off screen, and have the main plot of the story be finding Mae. Indara, Torbin and Kelnacca are just redshirt Jedi given names, they don't matter anymore than the nameless Jedi that Qimir kills in episode 5. The show very interesting and intriguing ideas behind it, but the execution was probably the worst of any Disney+ Star Wars show that we have gotten. It does seem like they are planning on a second season, with the cameos and where it left off. And I can already guess what the main two storylines are gonna be: Vernestra/Mae searching for Qimir, while he trains Osha, and Qimir and Ohsa delving deeper into the Sith lore that Qimir and possibly Plaguies (if Plaugies is Qimir's master) are discovering on this unknown planet
I liked the Acolyte story. I wish Disney/ Lucas/Marvel would get away from the sub 30 minute episodes and only 8 at that. If they gave this show 40+ minutes per episode or gave us 12-16 episodes they could have fleshed out some of the characters and their relationships. It felt rushed towards the end especially
What I think about Darth Plagueis, is that as long as Lesley and this team of writers are still incharge. I don't want a season 2. just let this show die, leaving thing unresolved. But if they get a show runner in that knows what they are doing, writers that know Star Wars, and can stay consistent within the Lore of Disney Star Wars, then I MIGHT give season 2 a chance, but if not. Leave Plagueis alone. If you can't get me to care about the main characters of season one, then I have no faith that they will do Plagueis justice. Senator Rayencourt had maybe 2 minutes of screen time and I loved to hate his character. so in essence I loved his character. just 2 damn minutes and I was bought in on him, and even Venestra was decent across from him. the only thing she failed to do when he pointed out that if a Jedi went rogue who would be there to stop them was to say. "The Jedi have always protected the Republic from all its enemies, and we will always be there to defend the Republic, just as we did against the Sith." that lil bit of dialogue to me would of cut off the momentum that Senator Rayencourt had built in that scene. Also that scene should of been the very first scene of the show, to establish stakes for the Jedi. I feel like the reveal of Sol killing their mother to Osha, I think they were trying to go with a Vader vs Luke at Bespin. moment, but it fell utter flat. If you know in the script the man playing vader, says to Luke. "No Obi-Wan killed your father." But the director pulled Mark Hamill aside and said, this is what he is going to say, but what is actualy going to be in the film is "No, I am your Father." I want you to react to that. but because the relationship between them was so muddled, and each of their own motivations are murky at best. It just falls flat in my opinion. I should of been called a Force Nexus, not vergence.(This right here is where I debunk Micheal Vogel saying Lesley knows her shit. I'm sorry but using a Force Nexus would of done 2 things. It would of fufilled the purpose she needed from the Vergence, and it wouldn't of pissed off us hardcore fans. But no, she used the vergence because she wants to leave her own stamp on thing, because she thinks she knows better. Then we see in an interview she has to step it back and be like No no the vergence is on the planet, not the girls. Ummm too late b*tch ya done f**k up.) I am a nerd, of Pre Disney Star Wars. And before disney I remember the Ruusan Reformation, where before it the Jedi were much more involved in the daily life fo the Republic. The Jedi held military ranks, they had armadas, armies, and personal Ships. The Jedi even had their own people as Senators within the Senate. but after the Ruusan Reformation, they gave that all up to establish trust with the people of the Republic, whom feared that the Jedi might turn into Sith themselves. So the Jedi gave up their military ranks, armadas, armors, ships, and armor. They left the Senate, and put on Robes to go from being soldiers, to keepers of the peace. So all I see the over side as, is just the Republic holding their piece of candy, seeing the Jedi have one, and wanting that one as well. No no no no. Yoda elects NOT to tell the Senate that they have lost their ability use the Force effectively. They key Maul a secret for a time, because they are investigating. I can not remember one time that Yoda lied to anyone in the Senate about the Sith. Not if you want to argue about whether Omitting info is as bad as covering up. I'll have that debate, but I'm not going to sit back and let you say that Yoda covered shit up when really what he did was Omit certain truths.
I think they lightsaber duels in this show were good, but none of them can touch Nick Gillard's work. Osha bleeding the crystal could of been bad ass if they did it in season2. And if they followed their very own lore over it. But they didn't, and some something bad ass not only retconned itself. It cheapened it.
I agree, if we saw Qimir get Osha worked up, and she erupts with like Force Hatred around her. And then he reminds. "Your anger gives you strength, its reawaken your powers." *clap* I'd bought, and shipped it. If Sol would of gotten to explain that Anisaya was turning into a smoke monster and Mae was vaporizing before my eyes, so I did what thought I had to to protect Mae, and to protect you. Then she rages out on him. Starts choking him, she is furious still, she's crying, she all but foaming at the mouth. Even though it does break canon. I would have bought in to Osha bleeding the Crystal, But they didn't execute that. So I can't buy into any of it, and so that Is why not only do I hate the episode, aside for the duel. But because this is how the whole season went. That is why I hate this show, and think that Lesley Headland should not be allowed to run a Star Wars show ever again.
I think Wookies have to exile themselves if they cut a life form with their claws or something. Don't know why Torbin felt so guilty. He felt his unexplainably over emotional (for a Jedi at least) bizarre actions set off a chain reaction of bizarre events that would result in the deaths of those in space witch cult?
To the idea that there's a great scene between Jecki, Osha, and Sol on Brendok, imagine if they actually went somewhere with the Osha/ Jecki relationship, and Osha is the one to kill, or maybe just injure Jecki after killing Sol. Could have added a layer to the sexual overtones of Osha'a choice if there was an equal potential relationship she was walking away from to choose Qimir.
Whilst I get casting your kids, spouse, family etc is rife in hollywood, you have to make sure the actor gives a damn good performance to combat the inevitable nepptism claims. Whilst we all joke that James Gun always casts his brother. in his movies , Sean always delivers. Im sure James would not be affraid to tell Sean to do a better take if needed. If Lesley was not able to go up to Rachel and say her performance was not good enough or try better , in fear it might cause problems in their home-life, this is clearly a conflict of interest and should have hired someone else. Or as Roca said, have Carie Anne Moss and Rachel swap roles instead.
Great review buddies. Although I see and agree with many of your criticisms, I still enjoyed the show. Its biggest problem was how disjointed the story was. They were going for mysterious, but ended up with confusing. John, I know you love to knock the cowboy hat off Dave, but I put the blame on too many writers (10) that didn't appear to work together.
What kind of a world do I live in where everyone seems to hate the Book of Boba Fett more than this? What did I miss about hating that show that everyone seemed to pick up on and think it's worse than The Acolyte? I haven't seen writing this horrible on this kind of production. Ever. Just, literally, EVER. I'm not in any way saying the Book of Boba Fett was great or anything (it was okay...ish) but to compare this to that? It's like comparing a piece of burnt feces to a burnt pile of rubble where you can make out some of what used to be there. Here's a better comparison. The Acolyte compared to the Rise of Skywalker. I fell asleep in the theater watching that movie. It was absolutely terrible. And yet? That absolute garbage of a film is 100x better than The Acolyte. One has actual story to follow that makes sense... in some ways. The other is an incomprehensible mishmash of fantasies. That's it. It's a lurid fever dream led on by a drunken night of wanting some, but ending up alone at night. Let's put it this way: I NEVER... NEVER... thought there would be a time in which I would defend the Rise of Skywalker. Yet, here we are. Seriously, the Rise of Skywalker is something I have never, and will never, even pirate (I find it that revolting). And yet somehow, somehow, it's better than The Acolyte. Also, in comparison in my view: the Rise of Skywalker is not fit to lick the bootheel of the Book of Boba Fett.
The only thing i can compare the Acolyte to is marvel s Secret Invasion. (Both Ahsoka and Bobba Fett have clear narrative lines and comprehensible character motivations so i don t get the comparisons either) 🤷
Respect for the prequels 😂. How, by bastardizing the origins of Anakin being a vergence in the force. Alluding that Plaguis got the idea from OSHA and Mae and this sect of witches. Headlyne has been on record a few times talking smack against Lucas. She doesn’t know how to play in this sandbox. Similar to Rian Johnson.
We enjoyed the show and the finale, but we've accepted that there is (because there ALWAYS has been) a level of sloppiness and wobbily verisimilitude to the story-telling and world-building of Star Wars.
Senator was wonderful. Vernestra was horrible. Fights were decent. But everything that happens would be better if I cared about these people at all. They want us to like the twins, but they just killed a character I liked. So why would I like them.
I think star wars franchise is very close to being dead. People saying marvel is dead don't know anything. people still care about marvel , they just want consistency. With star wars, its completely dead in the water
I've been very entertained by Ken Napzog and Joseph Scrimshaw's Acolyte talk. Geek Buddies has been a little ranting, but at least you have Mike. Now Kristian Harloff's reviews are unwatchable: pure rant, since episode 7. There's no fun in ranting. Watch Ken and Joseph. This week was interesting, because we can clearly see that Ken was disappointed and Joseph was not too pleased (because of the cliffhanger), but Jennifer Landa loved The Acolyte... and they were very positive nevertheless. I myself lost interest in The Acolyte at episode 4, but I went on watching. It's a 6/10 to me. But boy, I will watch and rewatch that last fight many times, because it was so cool! 😄
Venestra (with another actress playing her) recruiting Sol, Indara, and Kalnaka to hunt down the mysterious enemy killing jedi and disappearing whom she suspects might be a former padawan of hers who had fallen to the dark side. And structured more like a detective investigation...a touch of noir or alternatively international espionage in...yep...i d watch that. The way it is now I don't know why people keep referring to this as a mystery show....where was the mystery...we knew who the killer was from ep 1.
My ending would have just been for Plagueis to outright murder absolutely everyone of them. If you're going to have him in it you may as well make use of him.
At some point this show definitely was what we all thought it would be, with plagueis and Sol/ Jedi order being a mystery trying to find whose been killing Jedi but I think it’s likely filoni did his usual thing of putting younger characters in the centre and just making it too CW and not the tone akin to Andor. This series had the perfect premise and story for Andor and it’s baffling why they chose to shoehorn silly comedy moments that undercut any tension it had. Whoever they got for visuals and choreography give them a movie because those fights imo beat out all but the fight in EP 3.
There was a LOT to like here, and that's what's frustrating. If each episode was as long as Episode 8, and there were 10 episodes not 8, they could have explained things better, added more character building, and just fleshed things out to tell the story better and more cohesively. I also think that had they made this series, but you remove Mae and Osha, had Qimir be "The Acolyte" who was taken from this Force Cult Coven and later is Vernestra's Padawan before becoming Apprentice Sith Plagueis' Acolyte, it would have worked MUCH better. Much everything else could have remained in some form, but just taking Mae/Osha out, as they and "their story" were the weakest parts of this series, would have improved everything. But that's just IMHO.
Too many unanswered reason why characters did what they done. I enjoyed concept of bad jedi cops and revenge story but the backstory of why character does things and arrangements of episodes made it hard watch but the fights were great.
Michael, I love you, but you needed to pay better attention to what happened when the sisters and Qimir were at the tree. Mae chose not to go with the other two, and Qimir used the mind wipe so the Jedi could not find him and Osha by using Mae's memories. It was explained explicitly when they did it. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy this as much as you wanted to. Maybe on a rewatch you will see that some of the things you said were lacking were actually there. Like this example.
I'm predicting that Plagueis will end up in a love triangle with Quigmire and Osha. We are going to see Plagueis take off his robe and show his Muun abs, because "he is so hot y'all". Osha will struggle mentally because Quigmire was the first dude she saw nude, but now Plageuis the hung is the second guy she's seen do the helicopter. It has given her a dilemma, and there is a disturbance in the "force-romance".
As always, you guys deliver some really insightful thoughts about the show which are well discussed. I really hope those working on it take the time to watch and take note. If the show gets a season two, I think there is a real risk discussions like yours will be pushed aside as just more toxic fandom hating on, what has been undeniably a really troubled, uneven production.
Thing is, the Geek Buddies, Cinepals and Reel Rejects have had the fairest, most even handed criticism, I think. I also love SWE and ForceCenter, but they tend to focus more on the positive aspects of shows. I get that any criticism may be disregarded as toxic (and there’s definitely tons of toxicity out there), but I think you’re right that some of these criticisms would seriously help them especially GBs.
Lol yes I hate Bazil. Throw Bazil off a cliff. And I've never watched a show in my life with more inconsistent characters making such incomprehensible decisions. Baffling stuff all round. That being said I would watch a season 2. Also it's funny that the people that are the biggest fans of the franchise (Filoni, Headland, JJ) are making the worst stuff whereas the person who is the least passionate about the franchise in Gilroy had made the best Star Wars.
I fully agree this show is barely better than Bobba Fett , if they do get another season we need a new showrunner and writers get the Andor or Mando season 1 writers on this please 😂
Whew was this nuance for rebel moon? That’s why I’m not buying the fans are toxic narrative. If you have seen TLJ mando s3, solo, boba fett and rise of skywalker you are justified in getting annoyed and vocal
@@marshsundeen Bazil HELPED tie up Mae though so why did he get a conscious all of a sudden. And again, if I need to read an interview to find out the intention of your characters because you’re not making it clear on the show, that is an issue.
@@marshsundeen That’s not true. He stands right behind Sol when he stuns her and doesn’t raise one issue with it. He also physically attacked her on the ship. You might need to rewatch this episode.
@@JohnRochaSays I saw the episode. I also questioned why Bazil messed with the ship. Headland said she wanted Bazil to have a heroic moment. I do not believe people read it that way. Most reactors were confused. My thought is he was afraid Sol was going to kill Mae or destroy their ship.
Because of so many inconsistentcies and character actions often being illogical I also there were many revisions and reshoots. Maybe character X's action made more sense before the revision.
This is the worst kind of show , wasted potential. We can all see what this show could have been but just wasn’t . If it was just bad we wouldn’t be that upset by it. Like Willow didn’t upset me as it was just bad but this show could of been so much better
Osha trained with the Jedi for TEN YEARS. She learned plenty about using the force, and it's finally able to do it much better after the journey she's been on. And LEAVE BRITNEY (er, I mean FELONI) ALONE!
Mah. Filoni added some nonsense YA notes here. Osha did not learn how to be a Force user on this level. And I can train for the NFL for 10 years, but once I walk away from the game for 6 years, I don't just all of a sudden come in miles better than I was before.
@@JohnRochaSays The twins being powerfully Force-sensitive but not realizing it, is the whole premise for their characters. Remember the M-Count bit? Qimir even makes the argument that the need for Osha to train in order to reconnect with the Force is Jedi propaganda.
I feel like she was strong in the force because she was created by the force, has a strong amount of midichlorians, she has a certain amount of power, and she was trained well before she started training with the Jedi, but was shy about using her power
Agree I hope this show doesn’t get a season 2 not just because quality wise I don’t think it deserves one but also just so the entire discourse around this show can end from both the I hate everything side and the I love everything side of Star Wars can go back to their corners and leave the sane middle people alone. I’ve never felt as gaslight about anything in my life as I have with people trying to say how good and well written and acted this show is and that I don’t understand it because I’m a hater or I’m not knowledgeable about Star Wars or I’m some ist or phobe, or I’m just a nitpicker or the shows just not for you even though it’s Star Wars or it’s going over your head etc.
I agree with your thoughts about the prequel Jedi including Yoda. Thing is, there are tons of stupid fans who disagree with you because silly reasons like "Prequels are perfection!". I'm afraid that those morons will have to be catered to in every SW show or they will throw their toys out.
My dudes... Sol had no way to prove there was a vergence when he believed Mae was dead. Now that he could bring the "twins" together, he wanted to finally prove it because he believes it's very important for the Jedi to study and understand the phenomenon.
When Osha asks Sol why he killed her mother, he starts talking about the vergence which really seems to set her off, he does not explain that Aniseya started turning into a smoke monster and he panicked, and it was basically a terrible mistake.
Shannon, Qimir told Mae strike him down and your journey will be complete. Remember she was supposed to kill him without a weapon. I thought Mae throwing the saber made total sense to me. The whole scene and moment was really good to me. Wish we had more Qimir and his backstory. They could’ve told ep 3 the way they did ep 7 and not have retell that moment twice and we would’ve had time for his backstory
The story here is NOT good. All the characters motivation are all over the map, and it makes absolutely no sense. Why did Anakin's lightsaber not turn red when he killed all the younglings? Dumb. dumb. dumb. This is just bad fan fiction.
I like watching Geek Buddies reaction show more than watching the actual Acolyte show. No season 2 please Lucasfilm. This show has some of the worst writing and directing of any Star Wars show.
Prince Vogel supremely offended that Shannon would even /imply/ that he wouldn’t remember the Ewok movies 🤣❤️
What makes or breaks a show for me is the message, character arcs, and the finale. This show failed in all three areas for me. I guess we are supposed to be happy that two killers ended up together? Sol made a mistake out of ignorance and impulsivity, killing Aniseya because she turned into a smoke monster and started turning Mae into smoke. Sol remained tormented by guilt. Osha chose to deliberately and slowly force choke Sol to death, Mae stalked and killed Indara and Torbin. Neither Twin shows remorse. Indara did not do anything wrong. She and Kelnacca were there to remove Sol and torbin, and when the witches violated Kelnacca's mind, Indara freed him which accidentally killed the witches. Mae and Osha do not seem concerned about the complexity of the situation, or the witches role in it, or even the fact that they are one being split in two. They are very unlikable characters. I actually liked Yord and Jecki, Sol and Qimir were intriguing.
Someone in the live chat mentioned how Sol was training younglings at the temple on Coruscant when Indara dies so how do you pin that on him.
Then my addition to that is there are witnesses to Mae killing Indara which we see in... episode 1? So we have witnesses and records of Sol not being anywhere near Indara when she dies /and/ we have witnesses who saw Mae do it so...
Damn, Rocha made a superb point that swapping the actresses for Vernestra and Indara might've definitely been far more effective in hindsight. Key word being hindsight.
When Mae knocked osha out took her clothes and left to either be killed Darth silver fang, or wild animals! after telling quimir I quit my sisters alive this changes everything , but now in episode 8 u want us to believe they love each other!?😂😂😂 And another thing if they are the same person why can't they sense the other is still alive? No answers just go with it!!😂😂😂
When last we saw Mae, she was running from something. When last we saw Osha, she was waking up severely out of breath. *Every episode
There is cool stuff in the show for sure. I think you nailed it. If you described the story, it's actually really interesting and cool. But I just simply lost interest in the central story, as the twins are just switching back and forth on the fly in a matter of hours?
I agree, too much flip flopping with no evidence/reasoning for it. I didn't find the twins at all interesting. I'd rather seen more about Jecki, Yord, Sol, and Qimir. And Bazil. wtf was that sabotage? zero reasoning for it.
I was listening to someone's podcast who knew someone close to Lucasfilm say that they were scared to put out a show centering on the Sith because no one would like it. So, you get this show. If you took these characters and put them in another show to explore the next steps or continue on with Darth Plagueis watching Quimir and Osha wondering which one should he keep. Just get better writers or script editors.
I could easily come up with/write a story for this show that doesn't have the twins in it at all. Have the Jedi discover a vergence in the Force on Brendok, have the Sith already know about it, and are hunting down the Jedi team that was sent to Brendok, to keep the Jedi from discovering that the Sith are still around and are experimenting with the vergence
@@thejediofchicago6580 absolutely…there is a cool story in here…that is what so frustrating and makes me hate the show the more I think about it…it’s weird, I definitely enjoyed watching the show at times but as a whole I’m kinda starting to hate it… I feel like my enjoyment was based entirely on “wow the sith are out there, when will they show up, this cool!” …like an excitement and fear about what was coming but not what was actually happening on screen….
@@thejediofchicago6580 yeah this would be a great show
Mae’s mind was wiped in order to keep the Jedi from finding out about Osha and Qimir. They explained that in the episode….Is it a cop out? Yes lol
I just don’t give a shit about the twins
You just summed up my entire feeling of the show.
And I hate pointing out acting? But her acting was sub par at best…
That’s why this was such a bad episode. It was completely focused on them and they are completely uninteresting.
@@tylerhenk87 To be fair she was working with a terrible script where her characters were poorly written.
@@tylerhenk87 I do too especially with kids, but Amandla has been acting for a while and some of the 180's her characters did - combination of bad writing, bad directing, and bad acting. I just didn't buy it. And the whole "we are one...together as two" chant or whatever it was was akin to the Star Trek episode "And the Children Shall Lead" when they were calling the angel. I just rolled my eyes.
We still have no explanation why Anasea started turning into space dust in the flashback.
I wonder if Qimir wasn't aware that Plagueis was there on the planet. He was secretly checking out what his apprentice has been up to.
My take is that Qimir grew powerful enough and "killed" Plageuis.. or so he thought. So he believes he's the new Sith lord but Plageuis cheated death and now lurks in the shadows
@@tiniestavenger6329 What if Qimir doesn't know about Plageuis, but Plageuis felt or sensed Qimir and Osha on that planet. He went to find out what or who it was that made that happen.
This is how plagueis is in the book. Creepy guy in a cave. “Open a book”
Trying to remember if I've ever heard Shannon curse as much as he did in this episode...
Overall, I'm with you guys on Acolyte: lots of interesting ideas that weren't explored/executed properly.
Very disappointing because I loved Russian Doll.
I would have liked to have seen the actresses and/or characters flip in Ahsoka and Acolyte. Put Shin Hati as the Acolyte, and Mae or Osha as Baylan Skoll's apprentice in Ahsoka.
They can't even decide what Basil is. Green bald lady says to the team "use the "tracker""... like he's a sniffing dog or an object... but both Yord and Mog treated Basil as a fellow team member. Yord learned his language and communicated with him. And Mog also showed to be familiar with him, saying: "Basil! You're alright, what a relief.".
So either green bald lady is a disrespectful jackass towards other species, ... or Basil is not more than a "dog" and Yord actually learned to... "talk dog" at the Jedi Academy.
I agree that the twins had very little personality as individual and it was no reasons & backstory. Looks like Sol nod his head for Osha to kill him.
John wants a 10 min exposition piece with Sol and Osha in the middle of this serious tense moment.
Were there any 2 character relationships that we fully understood and believed in from start to finish? I'm struggling to think of any
Bazel (??) works for the Jedi. Sol pulls up a targeting computer to shoot Mae down. Bazel knows this is against Jedi teachings (and that Sol seems a little out of control) so he rips wires to stop anything horrible happening. Not that any of this is clear, hence so many people getting confused (don't blame them).
One of (many) gripes, but the one that sticks out at the moment - Osha and Mae reunite. They talk. They _fight_ - and not 5 minutes later they're back to being twin sisters and working together. How'd that happen? They were at each other's throats, and then they were escaping together. So much of this show just feels disconnected.
I care not about the gender of writers, directors, actors - what I care about is skill and talent. That's why I struggled with this one. I just want you to tell me a story - that makes sense...
"i wouldn't say tirade...i would say passionate plea" 45:30 🤣
I'd rather they did a "season 2" via a comic, honestly. Some of the ideas and themes are solid, but the execution has been ok to awful. A comic would allow for the fluctuating pacing and allow them to be as dialogue & action heavy as they wanna be
I dont believe Sol is wrong for killing the mother, unpopular opinion, I felt that he was trying to protect , if he did not act, folks would say he was foolish for not being quick to act, dont think he was selfish
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion, probably a majority of the audience agrees with you.
The choreography in this episode (and series) and some of the moments (like the kyber crystal being bled) were cool. But damn was this series was just a miss for me.
Can Lucasfilm just hire professional writers and editors... and let them do their job? Please!
As someone who works on high budget entertainment "products", i can say that this stinks of "Cool ideas thrown on a white board and stitched together by committee".
Honestly the opening scene of fallout had more emotional heft than this entire series.
I actually liked the scene with the senator raincourt and vernestra and this plot line. The problem is this came far to late in the season (with just 20 minutes to go!) It should have been something that happened in episode 6, so help us understand more the pressure vernestra was under etc.
There was a line in episode 5 about a possible sentate hearing, but this should have been in episode 1 to establish this plotline earlier.
I actually would of been more interested in a west wing style tv show with senator raincourt an vernestra.
I think we need movies and show to go FORWARD in time. Hundreds of years after Skywalker saga, in the in-world legend Rey or whoever reestablished the Jedi as a more humane order. In the first movie we get to follow a person who stumbles upon a Sith Holocron (Revan?) who then learns about the Sith of old and we get to follow that person fall deeper into the dark side and culimnates in him/her establishing the beginnings of a new Sith Empire. Then we'd have somewhat of a blank slate with some world building done already. With very little baggage of what's been done before.
But this would also mean that they need to find their own Kevin Feige for SW. Someone who can have creative oversight and whose main focus is to create GREAT and compelling stories.
All great thoughts, and I wanted to say something on every point you made. Kudos for making people feel like they wish they were right there with you to chat. Buddies indeed. 💚 But I ll just say: (a) hands down, the best light saber duels, sure, but also top 5 action choreographies across Disney+. (b) just disappointing really. Because of the clear potential. Should have gone muchhh darker (which I also hope they do with the tv Harry Potter) (c) a thought I didn’t hear you make: so, Osha went from not being able to use the Force to being soooo much stronger than Sol, and immediately upon hearing a throw away one line confession? What? It’s just so unbelievable. Even Goku in Dragon Ball gets hammered a million times before upgrading, and everyone believes it, no matter how ridiculously high the upgrade is…build up matters. (d) a show not understanding how time works and not developing stories and archs bases thereon also bothers me sooooooo much, Rocha. It also pissed me off in The Bear S2, which I still absolutely love. One week internships, not matter the restaurant, does not support that much of a personality and skill change in people, definitely not Richie, especially considering what he was doing in his first few days. Just say it was one month, give the characters the time. You can still just say whatever additional time that means they have to open the restaurant is tight and show the chaos and intensity leading up to it. It bothers me so much because they are such easy fixes, which sadly was also the reason I was disappointed with this show. Easy fixes. Unexplainable misses. Anyway. (e) 🩷 y’all!
Why is the story not about plagueis and yoda? Like did they really think people would rather watch this show over that?
If the show was Sol vs Qimir it would've been better show
It sucks because in episode 1-2 I was impressed with Amandla. The writing got worse, and trying to get high emption out of anyone in this show is brutal. Any screams or yells are not believable.
1:07:35 I agree with Roca on this!. At this point, I dont have any faith that Disney would do a good job with Yoda and Plagueis, should this show somehow get a 2nd season! Especially given their recent history with the likes of Luke, Boba Fett, Obi Wan, Thron etc.
Osha and Mae are the two worst characters in Star Wars history point blank.. 🤦
Andor didn’t “raise the bar”. It MET the standard for “Star Wars”. Every Star Wars show should look as good and have as good as writing as Andor did.
What is sad about the streaming era is that it used to be fairly normal for a series to have a weak first season and still get a chance to hit their stride in the next, but now everything gets axed.
The only good thing was Sol deserve what was coming.
Vermestra putting the “blame” on Sol is not wrong - as a wise Jedi once said “from a certain point of view “
For me some inconsistencies & unnecessary plots were :
1) The Sith has the rule of only 2. So if Qimir took on Mae and later Osha , wouldn’t Darth Plagueis have eliminated Qimir first ?
2) the 2 girls were suppose have a strong connection and bond through the series . At the end both at a blink of an eye agree to “separate “without any thought.
3)how does Vernestra know her past appreciate was involve ?
4) Brazil in the past episode appear to “know” Mae was disguising as Osha . So why did he sabotage Sol to capture her ?
The biggest unnecessary click bait is Darth Plaguies . Totally unnecessary and does not add any value to the series.
Yoda end credit is also unnecessary
Loved your guys' conversation. It wasn't just 60+ mins of screaming "this show sucks" like some people do. You touched on the things you liked but elaborated on what was bad and presented other ideas that could've worked well. For me, I enjoyed it although I admit there were many flaws. Like Vogel said, Star Wars has become like a favorite sports team. Even in their worst years, there was always a player or two I loved watching that kept the season somewhat enjoyable.
Star Wars can and should be so much better than the last few shows, I think thats where most of the fan frustration comes from. No excuse making shows of this low quality.
Sure. Intellectualising trash makes you look like an a hole
None of this made sense to me
The actress playing Mai/Osia (however you spell them) had the same expression for all her emotions 🤦
Sol v kymer was DOPE though
Were we supposed to hate Sol? He was a little creepy and he killed Aniseya but I still don't hate him. The way Aniseya died felt like an accident not intentional. Vernestra was so unlikable and the actress was terrible. Qimir was interesting at the beginning then he just turned into the guy with the exposed arms. 😂
I don’t know if you’re supposed to hate him, per se. I thought the actor did a really good job, but I didn’t like Sol.
I think you can like Sol as a deeply caring, warm and skilled Jedi who is misguided. Or you can dislike him for being so selfish and myopic?
@@Vulcanerd You have some good points. I just feel like something is missing. I wanted to feel something when Osha force choke him.
no normal person would HATE Sol.
@@elbebinpr One of the things I suggests for the series is start the series earlier or have a flashback to Osha as a young padawan still at the Jedi academy learning from Sol and Sol being a doting, father figure who always worries about Osha and Osha trying to be a model daughter/student. While there, you could have also included Osha becoming friends with Yord and maybe you see them form a rivalry where they’re constantly trying to one up each other. Then Sol becomes like your best friend’s dad who you like or even look up to.
They could have done so much more, but Michael mentions this, which is I don’t know if they could have crammed all that in in a ~35 min, 8 ep season. That’s just a bottleneck almost none of these shows are being helped by.
@@Vulcanerd I agree with you. You have excellent ideas. They would have made this series some much better. These episodes needed to be longer. They could have done so much more. It's too late now.
I enjoyed the finale for what it was, 40+ minutes of SW TV but as a whole the series was bad. I ended up giving the series a 5.5/10, mainly because it felt like it was juggling too many storylines for the short run times of the episodes/season. I could easily see a way of re-writing this season and not having the twins in it really at all. I wish the Senator/Vernestra (even though her character was extremely wooden and flat) storyline interspersed throughout the season, rather than last couple of episodes, there should've only been one flashback episode (episode 7) and have the Brendok Jedi (aside from Sol) all die off screen, and have the main plot of the story be finding Mae. Indara, Torbin and Kelnacca are just redshirt Jedi given names, they don't matter anymore than the nameless Jedi that Qimir kills in episode 5. The show very interesting and intriguing ideas behind it, but the execution was probably the worst of any Disney+ Star Wars show that we have gotten.
It does seem like they are planning on a second season, with the cameos and where it left off. And I can already guess what the main two storylines are gonna be: Vernestra/Mae searching for Qimir, while he trains Osha, and Qimir and Ohsa delving deeper into the Sith lore that Qimir and possibly Plaguies (if Plaugies is Qimir's master) are discovering on this unknown planet
I watch all the fett series and managed to get through Asoka but I gave up after falling asleep during the first 2eps and I have been a fan since 1977
You and I are in the same boat. 😒
Darth Teeth helmet? I prefer to call it The Gimp helmet. All you need is Butch, Marcellus and Zed and we have Pulp Fiction in Star Wars.
Does that make Qimir the Gimp??
I kinda preferred Smylo Ren. Or maybe Darth Why-so-serious.
We needed the Pensieve scene where Osha sees how it's done...
I liked the Acolyte story. I wish Disney/ Lucas/Marvel would get away from the sub 30 minute episodes and only 8 at that. If they gave this show 40+ minutes per episode or gave us 12-16 episodes they could have fleshed out some of the characters and their relationships. It felt rushed towards the end especially
A lot of times though it felt like scenes were filler and often stretched out.
Qimir and Sol should’ve had a dialog fighting over Osha. It would’ve heightened everything.
I was totally waiting for that! (It's always so in anime fights damit!)
I detest the twins and Venestra. And why did basil break the ship? Absolute rubbish show..and i feel they destroy Sol's character.
What I think about Darth Plagueis, is that as long as Lesley and this team of writers are still incharge. I don't want a season 2. just let this show die, leaving thing unresolved. But if they get a show runner in that knows what they are doing, writers that know Star Wars, and can stay consistent within the Lore of Disney Star Wars, then I MIGHT give season 2 a chance, but if not. Leave Plagueis alone. If you can't get me to care about the main characters of season one, then I have no faith that they will do Plagueis justice.
Senator Rayencourt had maybe 2 minutes of screen time and I loved to hate his character. so in essence I loved his character. just 2 damn minutes and I was bought in on him, and even Venestra was decent across from him. the only thing she failed to do when he pointed out that if a Jedi went rogue who would be there to stop them was to say. "The Jedi have always protected the Republic from all its enemies, and we will always be there to defend the Republic, just as we did against the Sith." that lil bit of dialogue to me would of cut off the momentum that Senator Rayencourt had built in that scene.
Also that scene should of been the very first scene of the show, to establish stakes for the Jedi.
I feel like the reveal of Sol killing their mother to Osha, I think they were trying to go with a Vader vs Luke at Bespin. moment, but it fell utter flat. If you know in the script the man playing vader, says to Luke. "No Obi-Wan killed your father." But the director pulled Mark Hamill aside and said, this is what he is going to say, but what is actualy going to be in the film is "No, I am your Father." I want you to react to that.
but because the relationship between them was so muddled, and each of their own motivations are murky at best. It just falls flat in my opinion.
I should of been called a Force Nexus, not vergence.(This right here is where I debunk Micheal Vogel saying Lesley knows her shit. I'm sorry but using a Force Nexus would of done 2 things. It would of fufilled the purpose she needed from the Vergence, and it wouldn't of pissed off us hardcore fans. But no, she used the vergence because she wants to leave her own stamp on thing, because she thinks she knows better. Then we see in an interview she has to step it back and be like No no the vergence is on the planet, not the girls. Ummm too late b*tch ya done f**k up.)
I am a nerd, of Pre Disney Star Wars. And before disney I remember the Ruusan Reformation, where before it the Jedi were much more involved in the daily life fo the Republic. The Jedi held military ranks, they had armadas, armies, and personal Ships. The Jedi even had their own people as Senators within the Senate.
but after the Ruusan Reformation, they gave that all up to establish trust with the people of the Republic, whom feared that the Jedi might turn into Sith themselves. So the Jedi gave up their military ranks, armadas, armors, ships, and armor. They left the Senate, and put on Robes to go from being soldiers, to keepers of the peace. So all I see the over side as, is just the Republic holding their piece of candy, seeing the Jedi have one, and wanting that one as well.
No no no no. Yoda elects NOT to tell the Senate that they have lost their ability use the Force effectively. They key Maul a secret for a time, because they are investigating. I can not remember one time that Yoda lied to anyone in the Senate about the Sith. Not if you want to argue about whether Omitting info is as bad as covering up. I'll have that debate, but I'm not going to sit back and let you say that Yoda covered shit up when really what he did was Omit certain truths.
I think they lightsaber duels in this show were good, but none of them can touch Nick Gillard's work. Osha bleeding the crystal could of been bad ass if they did it in season2. And if they followed their very own lore over it. But they didn't, and some something bad ass not only retconned itself. It cheapened it.
I agree, if we saw Qimir get Osha worked up, and she erupts with like Force Hatred around her. And then he reminds. "Your anger gives you strength, its reawaken your powers." *clap* I'd bought, and shipped it. If Sol would of gotten to explain that Anisaya was turning into a smoke monster and Mae was vaporizing before my eyes, so I did what thought I had to to protect Mae, and to protect you. Then she rages out on him. Starts choking him, she is furious still, she's crying, she all but foaming at the mouth. Even though it does break canon. I would have bought in to Osha bleeding the Crystal, But they didn't execute that. So I can't buy into any of it, and so that Is why not only do I hate the episode, aside for the duel. But because this is how the whole season went. That is why I hate this show, and think that Lesley Headland should not be allowed to run a Star Wars show ever again.
Why did Torbin kill himself? Why did Kelnacca exile himself. Nothing makes sense.
I think Wookies have to exile themselves if they cut a life form with their claws or something. Don't know why Torbin felt so guilty. He felt his unexplainably over emotional (for a Jedi at least) bizarre actions set off a chain reaction of bizarre events that would result in the deaths of those in space witch cult?
Season 2: No thanks.
To the idea that there's a great scene between Jecki, Osha, and Sol on Brendok, imagine if they actually went somewhere with the Osha/ Jecki relationship, and Osha is the one to kill, or maybe just injure Jecki after killing Sol. Could have added a layer to the sexual overtones of Osha'a choice if there was an equal potential relationship she was walking away from to choose Qimir.
Sol does not need an alibi for space Trinity murder-there was a witness it was one of the twins...
Whilst I get casting your kids, spouse, family etc is rife in hollywood, you have to make sure the actor gives a damn good performance to combat the inevitable nepptism claims.
Whilst we all joke that James Gun always casts his brother. in his movies , Sean always delivers. Im sure James would not be affraid to tell Sean to do a better take if needed.
If Lesley was not able to go up to Rachel and say her performance was not good enough or try better , in fear it might cause problems in their home-life, this is clearly a conflict of interest and should have hired someone else. Or as Roca said, have Carie Anne Moss and Rachel swap roles instead.
The best dialogue in this whole series was from the Senator played by the black actor, forgot his name
Great review buddies. Although I see and agree with many of your criticisms, I still enjoyed the show.
Its biggest problem was how disjointed the story was. They were going for mysterious, but ended up with confusing.
John, I know you love to knock the cowboy hat off Dave, but I put the blame on too many writers (10) that didn't appear to work together.
What kind of a world do I live in where everyone seems to hate the Book of Boba Fett more than this? What did I miss about hating that show that everyone seemed to pick up on and think it's worse than The Acolyte? I haven't seen writing this horrible on this kind of production. Ever. Just, literally, EVER. I'm not in any way saying the Book of Boba Fett was great or anything (it was okay...ish) but to compare this to that? It's like comparing a piece of burnt feces to a burnt pile of rubble where you can make out some of what used to be there.
Here's a better comparison. The Acolyte compared to the Rise of Skywalker. I fell asleep in the theater watching that movie. It was absolutely terrible. And yet? That absolute garbage of a film is 100x better than The Acolyte. One has actual story to follow that makes sense... in some ways. The other is an incomprehensible mishmash of fantasies. That's it. It's a lurid fever dream led on by a drunken night of wanting some, but ending up alone at night. Let's put it this way: I NEVER... NEVER... thought there would be a time in which I would defend the Rise of Skywalker. Yet, here we are. Seriously, the Rise of Skywalker is something I have never, and will never, even pirate (I find it that revolting). And yet somehow, somehow, it's better than The Acolyte.
Also, in comparison in my view: the Rise of Skywalker is not fit to lick the bootheel of the Book of Boba Fett.
The only thing i can compare the Acolyte to is marvel s Secret Invasion.
(Both Ahsoka and Bobba Fett have clear narrative lines and comprehensible character motivations so i don t get the comparisons either) 🤷
I need a episode of this show just talking about the last jedi
Respect for the prequels 😂. How, by bastardizing the origins of Anakin being a vergence in the force. Alluding that Plaguis got the idea from OSHA and Mae and this sect of witches. Headlyne has been on record a few times talking smack against Lucas. She doesn’t know how to play in this sandbox. Similar to Rian Johnson.
Introducing Plagueis this way felt gimmicky and further cheapened an already weak show.
We enjoyed the show and the finale, but we've accepted that there is (because there ALWAYS has been) a level of sloppiness and wobbily verisimilitude to the story-telling and world-building of Star Wars.
Senator was wonderful. Vernestra was horrible. Fights were decent. But everything that happens would be better if I cared about these people at all. They want us to like the twins, but they just killed a character I liked. So why would I like them.
Getting mad at "weird things" like bad story telling, horrible writing, and bad acting.
I think star wars franchise is very close to being dead. People saying marvel is dead don't know anything. people still care about marvel , they just want consistency. With star wars, its completely dead in the water
If majority of the shows had writing issues
I've been very entertained by Ken Napzog and Joseph Scrimshaw's Acolyte talk. Geek Buddies has been a little ranting, but at least you have Mike. Now Kristian Harloff's reviews are unwatchable: pure rant, since episode 7. There's no fun in ranting. Watch Ken and Joseph.
This week was interesting, because we can clearly see that Ken was disappointed and Joseph was not too pleased (because of the cliffhanger), but Jennifer Landa loved The Acolyte... and they were very positive nevertheless.
I myself lost interest in The Acolyte at episode 4, but I went on watching. It's a 6/10 to me. But boy, I will watch and rewatch that last fight many times, because it was so cool! 😄
What would this story have been like without Mae/Osha? Make modifications, but what would the core story be?
Venestra (with another actress playing her) recruiting Sol, Indara, and Kalnaka to hunt down the mysterious enemy killing jedi and disappearing whom she suspects might be a former padawan of hers who had fallen to the dark side. And structured more like a detective investigation...a touch of noir or alternatively international espionage in...yep...i d watch that.
The way it is now I don't know why people keep referring to this as a mystery show....where was the mystery...we knew who the killer was from ep 1.
Better.
My ending would have just been for Plagueis to outright murder absolutely everyone of them.
If you're going to have him in it you may as well make use of him.
At some point this show definitely was what we all thought it would be, with plagueis and Sol/ Jedi order being a mystery trying to find whose been killing Jedi but I think it’s likely filoni did his usual thing of putting younger characters in the centre and just making it too CW and not the tone akin to Andor. This series had the perfect premise and story for Andor and it’s baffling why they chose to shoehorn silly comedy moments that undercut any tension it had. Whoever they got for visuals and choreography give them a movie because those fights imo beat out all but the fight in EP 3.
The Stranger had the best lines in this shit show.
There was a LOT to like here, and that's what's frustrating. If each episode was as long as Episode 8, and there were 10 episodes not 8, they could have explained things better, added more character building, and just fleshed things out to tell the story better and more cohesively. I also think that had they made this series, but you remove Mae and Osha, had Qimir be "The Acolyte" who was taken from this Force Cult Coven and later is Vernestra's Padawan before becoming Apprentice Sith Plagueis' Acolyte, it would have worked MUCH better. Much everything else could have remained in some form, but just taking Mae/Osha out, as they and "their story" were the weakest parts of this series, would have improved everything. But that's just IMHO.
Too many unanswered reason why characters did what they done. I enjoyed concept of bad jedi cops and revenge story but the backstory of why character does things and arrangements of episodes made it hard watch but the fights were great.
Michael, I love you, but you needed to pay better attention to what happened when the sisters and Qimir were at the tree. Mae chose not to go with the other two, and Qimir used the mind wipe so the Jedi could not find him and Osha by using Mae's memories. It was explained explicitly when they did it. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy this as much as you wanted to. Maybe on a rewatch you will see that some of the things you said were lacking were actually there. Like this example.
I'm predicting that Plagueis will end up in a love triangle with Quigmire and Osha. We are going to see Plagueis take off his robe and show his Muun abs, because "he is so hot y'all". Osha will struggle mentally because Quigmire was the first dude she saw nude, but now Plageuis the hung is the second guy she's seen do the helicopter. It has given her a dilemma, and there is a disturbance in the "force-romance".
As always, you guys deliver some really insightful thoughts about the show which are well discussed. I really hope those working on it take the time to watch and take note. If the show gets a season two, I think there is a real risk discussions like yours will be pushed aside as just more toxic fandom hating on, what has been undeniably a really troubled, uneven production.
Thing is, the Geek Buddies, Cinepals and Reel Rejects have had the fairest, most even handed criticism, I think. I also love SWE and ForceCenter, but they tend to focus more on the positive aspects of shows.
I get that any criticism may be disregarded as toxic (and there’s definitely tons of toxicity out there), but I think you’re right that some of these criticisms would seriously help them especially GBs.
@@Vulcanerd The channels you mention have been fair, but I think they get drowned out by the sheer scale and volume of the bad faith criticism.
Lol yes I hate Bazil. Throw Bazil off a cliff. And I've never watched a show in my life with more inconsistent characters making such incomprehensible decisions. Baffling stuff all round. That being said I would watch a season 2.
Also it's funny that the people that are the biggest fans of the franchise (Filoni, Headland, JJ) are making the worst stuff whereas the person who is the least passionate about the franchise in Gilroy had made the best Star Wars.
I fully agree this show is barely better than Bobba Fett , if they do get another season we need a new showrunner and writers get the Andor or Mando season 1 writers on this please 😂
Remember when the worst thing about Disney Star Wars shows was the Technicolor Biker gang in BOBF?
The technicolour biker gang seems charmingly quirky in comparison to the incoherent mess the Acolyte turned out to be...
Whew was this nuance for rebel moon? That’s why I’m not buying the fans are toxic narrative. If you have seen TLJ mando s3, solo, boba fett and rise of skywalker you are justified in getting annoyed and vocal
That cartman quote seems so profound now
Headlands confirmed that Bazil messed with the ship, because he was questioning what Sol was doing. He tied Mae up and was not acting normal.
@@marshsundeen Bazil HELPED tie up Mae though so why did he get a conscious all of a sudden. And again, if I need to read an interview to find out the intention of your characters because you’re not making it clear on the show, that is an issue.
@@JohnRochaSays we did not see Bazil help.
@@marshsundeen That’s not true. He stands right behind Sol when he stuns her and doesn’t raise one issue with it. He also physically attacked her on the ship. You might need to rewatch this episode.
@@JohnRochaSays I saw the episode. I also questioned why Bazil messed with the ship. Headland said she wanted Bazil to have a heroic moment. I do not believe people read it that way. Most reactors were confused. My thought is he was afraid Sol was going to kill Mae or destroy their ship.
@@marshsundeen Well he did a good job of protecting the ship by ripping out its internal wiring.
Does anyone know if this show had extensive reshoots or just went through editing hell?
Because of so many inconsistentcies and character actions often being illogical I also there were many revisions and reshoots. Maybe character X's action made more sense before the revision.
This is the worst kind of show , wasted potential.
We can all see what this show could have been but just wasn’t .
If it was just bad we wouldn’t be that upset by it.
Like Willow didn’t upset me as it was just bad but this show could of been so much better
How dare you besmirch "Ani, you're breaking my heart." ;-)
Osha trained with the Jedi for TEN YEARS. She learned plenty about using the force, and it's finally able to do it much better after the journey she's been on.
And LEAVE BRITNEY (er, I mean FELONI) ALONE!
Mah. Filoni added some nonsense YA notes here. Osha did not learn how to be a Force user on this level. And I can train for the NFL for 10 years, but once I walk away from the game for 6 years, I don't just all of a sudden come in miles better than I was before.
Technically same thing basically happened to Kenobi in the Kenobi series with using the force
@@JohnRochaSays The twins being powerfully Force-sensitive but not realizing it, is the whole premise for their characters. Remember the M-Count bit? Qimir even makes the argument that the need for Osha to train in order to reconnect with the Force is Jedi propaganda.
I feel like she was strong in the force because she was created by the force, has a strong amount of midichlorians, she has a certain amount of power, and she was trained well before she started training with the Jedi, but was shy about using her power
Agree I hope this show doesn’t get a season 2 not just because quality wise I don’t think it deserves one but also just so the entire discourse around this show can end from both the I hate everything side and the I love everything side of Star Wars can go back to their corners and leave the sane middle people alone. I’ve never felt as gaslight about anything in my life as I have with people trying to say how good and well written and acted this show is and that I don’t understand it because I’m a hater or I’m not knowledgeable about Star Wars or I’m some ist or phobe, or I’m just a nitpicker or the shows just not for you even though it’s Star Wars or it’s going over your head etc.
Writing is horrible. Some great performances, some meh, a couple horrible ones. You’re not crazy.
Sounds like it was only the "I love everything" side that was harassing you.
Great review as always 😊 !!!
I agree with your thoughts about the prequel Jedi including Yoda. Thing is, there are tons of stupid fans who disagree with you because silly reasons like "Prequels are perfection!". I'm afraid that those morons will have to be catered to in every SW show or they will throw their toys out.
My dudes... Sol had no way to prove there was a vergence when he believed Mae was dead. Now that he could bring the "twins" together, he wanted to finally prove it because he believes it's very important for the Jedi to study and understand the phenomenon.
And we got that halfway thru the last episode. That is NOT the time to finally show the character's motivation.
@@starhawk63 Didn’t he have proof with the blood test?
When Osha asks Sol why he killed her mother, he starts talking about the vergence which really seems to set her off, he does not explain that Aniseya started turning into a smoke monster and he panicked, and it was basically a terrible mistake.
I was out episode 3 and I don't know how you could see all the episode your Beter then me your or real SW fans
Shannon, Qimir told Mae strike him down and your journey will be complete. Remember she was supposed to kill him without a weapon. I thought Mae throwing the saber made total sense to me. The whole scene and moment was really good to me. Wish we had more Qimir and his backstory. They could’ve told ep 3 the way they did ep 7 and not have retell that moment twice and we would’ve had time for his backstory
Yord was awesome
Hopefully were done with the woke garbage, doubt it with KK in charge.
This show wasn't woke! It was sleepwalking while having a vague confusing dream with zero cohesion and coherence)
My Ending the “twins” are both taken by Q to train . We find they can shift into one another to become badass Sith Make something new please
Teek > Basil.
The mind wipe os so the Jedi cant find Qmir and Osha
Basil…more annoying than Jar Jar!?!?!!?!🤷🏽♂️
The story here is NOT good. All the characters motivation are all over the map, and it makes absolutely no sense. Why did Anakin's lightsaber not turn red when he killed all the younglings? Dumb. dumb. dumb. This is just bad fan fiction.
Then”bleeding” of the lightsaber has been canon for a while now. Not sure it works though like you.
I think everyone forgets things were not the same hundreds of years before Anakin was born
@@missesmandarin9990 The Force was not the same??
I like watching Geek Buddies reaction show more than watching the actual Acolyte show. No season 2 please Lucasfilm. This show has some of the worst writing and directing of any Star Wars show.
Chekhov’s mind wipe
Star Wars has never done memory wipes before, nope not Revan, I mean ever.