Funnily enough I can think of an asexual, agender character who has an incredibly meaningful bond with another character without ever being close to romantic. And of course they actually wind up actually being a bio-engineered terminal for a supercomputer instead of just able to access it. So close...
I do recommend The Disastrous Life of Saiki K for amazing aro-ace rep. The main character is aro-ace, he's not evil or a robot or child-like. He's just a superpowered highschooler who wants a peaceful life.
The converse, however, is almost inevitable. Why would a sapient machine, which by definition reproduces by construction, even have genitals (nevermind even be human-shaped)? Sex just will not be A Thing for a being that reproduces by designing and assembling a new person. This is not an argument for using them as the only form of ace representation. It shouldn't. There should be compelling _human ace characters._ Leave the asexuality of machine-people out of it unless it's specifically relevant to the plot.
Jim: "This homosexual is committing an act of public indecency!" Bob: "By jove! That madman! Under what circumstances did you stumble upon his foul, heinous acts of public sexuality?" Jim: "Well you see, me and five other guys followed him around and spied on him for half a year until we managed to witness him quietly pulling another man into his sleeping quarters." Bob: "..." Jim: "What? We caught that homosexual red-handed!" Bob: "I don't think you know what 'public' indecency means."
This is why we fighting for! Our government just passed a ridicoules law which forbit any book which "popularize homosexuality" (which basically means any positive gay character) can't put to they showcase, and only can sold coverd in a non-transparent foil. Also bookshops can't trade any of these novels close to 200 m to a church, which almost every store in Hungary. :(
Ironically I would easily buy that it wasn't an accident. There are a fair number of writers of that era who bucked the Code as hard as they could without *breaking* the code.
@@selonianth there were absolutely people who did that, and I love them for it, but some like it hot was actually released without being hays code approved - that’s why it’s often credited with being part of the downfall of the hays code, because its financial success helped release the chokehold that the code had on the industry.
@@selonianth The sort of thing happens all the time. Artists will turn into absolute lawyers about the finest minutae when they want to get around dumb rules like that. The entire reason that 'the western' became such a big genre is because the Hays Code didn't allow stories about revenge unless it's in a historical context. Similarly, offensive songs on the radio. You can't say 'suck my cock' in a song on the radio, but everyone knows "can you blow my whistle" isn't about a wind instrument.
"God, calling someone out for 'public indecency' when you had to hire a team of private detectives to find them out would be so funny if it hadn't ruined so many lives." Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah... The number of white, straight, rugged male with a brooding pass is not only a trope but basically the primary format for any Warrior/Fighter character on RPGs
@@ianesgrecia8568 And they never ever can not just be not interested romantically, and in any genre and story no matter how unfitting there must be a romantic interests. Or tragic lost love.
@@Stynkrat You can put about every damn other one too. Geralt from Witcher, Chris Redfield from Resident Evil, Rambo, Terminator, Scorpion King, Fast and furious... The list is endless... Except from FFs. In Japan the stereotype is more of a pretty boy then the rugged type.
@@ianesgrecia8568 mhm, feminine men are commonplace in Japan just like how rugged manly men are common in the west, yet nobody gives Japan crap for it.
I find it odd that things like the Hayes' Code seem to suggest that gay sex is so pleasurable that even hearing about it will turn all the "good" boys and girls into debauched hedonists.
A descendant of the belief that anything fun is sinful, and the related view that sexual intercourse (for reproductive purposes only) is a duty that must be endured, I think. Gay people can't have kids so the only reason they have sex is because they enjoy it, and we can't have any of that, thank you very much. See also: hatred and revulsion towards masturbation
@@Shoxic666 dude no. Masturbating by all medical account is a great health benefit and really doesn't negativity impack your life at all. Sure theoretically it's possible to do it too much (mostly relating to time management and nothing else really), but to me it sounds like "oh but cleaning too much can also be bad". It happens but it wont be a problem for most people and considering b the signs that already exists comments like these aren't needed.
@@Sara-sn5gd Abstaining from masturbation comes with it's own health benefits, the benefits to doing it are very sparse but the psychological effects can be severe. Like any vice which isn't immediately harmful (pot, soft drinks etc) it should treated with caution and strict moderation.
From what I understand about the literature, the psychological effects (and probably any effects) from giving up masturbation seem to be purely place. A person who feels shame or guilt about fapping will feel better about themselves if they give up the thing that makes them feel bad. As far as dangers go, if you fap so much that you can’t do work/chores or do it so roughly that you injure yourself repeatedly, THEN you have a problem. But it’s not gonna affect your liver or circulation or brain like pot or alcohol. Cranking one out four times a day starting from when you are twelve is not gonna fuck you up in the long run like doing the same with beers or joints. The benefits are mostly anecdotal and, by actual medical reviews, placebo. Testosterone increase is only temporary, so have to keep fapping for that. Not sure what it does for women, but most of NoFap is aimed at straight guys anyway. Interestingly, participants of a study that presented them regularly with hardcore porn described a lot of the same mental and social benefits like nofappers describe when giving up masturbation. So depending on your psychology, doing that might actually be about as good for you as giving up masturbating. All in all, the studies into giving up masturbation have not proven actual benefits. It’s probably not bad for your health, but you are not gonna be more youthful or more successful or live statistically longer than fappers.
@@witchBoi_Connor Twitter-ites are the PIs of Oscar Wilde’s day-digging up explicitly private information, promptly displaying it all publicly without the consent of those involved, and then somehow having the audacity to call it “PUBLIC indecency.”
Ironically Hades in Greek Mythology is one of the few heterosexual Gods of Olympus; Ares, Apollo, Aphrodite, Dionysus and Poseidon are Bisexual, Hestia and Artemis are Asexual, Athena is Aromatic so that leaves Zuse, Hera, Demeter and Hephaestus as straight.
@@darcylentz6412 Oh shit, I forgot about him! I think Artemis has had romantic relationships with women too but not sexual. Basically the old joke holds true: "The Greeks invented the Threesome, The Roman's made it better by adding Women"
@@malachiroberts6198 Artemis had no romantic relations with anyone, male or female. her being friends with orion is the closest she ever got to a relationship
...Now I have a stronger urge than ever to write a D&D module where one of the villain's top lieutenants is gossiped about and vilified for "unnatural traits", "unrighteous behaviors", and pretty much all the "usual" phrases... and when the party finally encounters the guy, he's left-handed. Just left-handed. :P
Fun fact: In the brazilian Dub of the Lion King, whilst Scar is getting jumped on by the Hyenas, he says "Eu não DISSE Aquilo! (I didn't SAY that)", but the audio got mixed HORRIBLY, and with the music, sound effects of the fire, the Hyenas laughing,the fact that he said nothing whilst he was getting attacked and the emphasis on "Disse A-(Say Tha-)" made people hear various different things Some people heard "EU NÃO FIZ CHAPINHA(I DIDN'T STRAIGHTEN MY HAIR)" While some others heard "EU SOU BICHA(I'M GAY)" Obviously, nobody would genuinely believe that this was a written line, by Disney or the dubbing team. But it became sort of a meme, because the first few times you watch it, there's goddamn fire cracking sound effects that completely muffle the line, so a lot of people have a hard time hearing it (Including a crazy pastor who went on a Rant about why Disney is unholy) So in some people's memories, Scar's last words were him coming out
I STRONGLY DISAGREE! Being as famous as I am on TH-cam, I know that it gets hard to read every comment I get. I try my best, but I am just so famous, that I can't do it much longer. Sorry, dear ade
I actually visited an Ancient Greek exhibit recently. It was a really nice that they recognised Achilles and Patroclus as a couple. We’ve come a long way.
I always wondered what "natural law" meant, and after pursuing a history degree I found out that it basically means whatever the hell the speaker wants it to mean.
Thomas Aquinas has probably the best definitive definition. Though, knowing how the US has historically treated Catholicism does make that a bit too convoluted.
@@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic563 Ehm... Your brain. It works on electric impulses. Also certain electric eels. Ups sorry... Started writing before finishing to read your post.
My personal favorite example is Alexander Sokolov, the famous “Cavalry Maiden” who spent their entire life presenting male, fighting for Russia in the Napoleonic Wars like some kind of way cooler, trans Mulan. In his youth, he managed to train a pissed off horse that people considered unbreakable, and rode that horse in battle as part of Russia’s cavalry troops. When he wrote his autobiography, he wanted to publish it under his male name but was pressured into using their birth name by oblivious editors who assumed they were just unconfident. Even after they became too well known as a Russian hero to not be recognized, Sokolov continued to dress and present as male for the rest of his life. In Russia’s current, immensely queerphobic culture, Sokolov stands out as a cultural hero that trans people can look up to.
About Disney villains, I feel Frollo should be pointed out as being very much the opposite. If anything, he represents society's repression by kicking it into overdrive. His perfectly heterosexual attraction to Esmerelda scares him because of the slightest impropriety of it. It's literally what his villain song is all about.
Yeah, he’s pretty unique in that his villainy is genuinely kinda compelling. As horrible as he is, in a way he’s just as much a victim of his zealotry as the people he persecuted. There might have been a time in his life when he was a legitimately good person, but his faith and his inability to see the world as anything other than black & white have long since turned him into a monster who can’t comprehend an alternative. A pretty drastic alternative to every other Disney villain, who are all pure evil and enjoying every minute of it.
This is something that confuses me about the whole queer-coding argument. When I see it get applied to characters like Frollo I question it because on the one hand I can see that Frollo's character design has some effeminate features if you compare him to the design of Lady Tremaine, but his character is pretty explicitly lusting after a woman, and in his case, this heterosexual attraction is portrayed in a very negative light. So even if he Frollo has a few minor effeminate details, can he really be queer coded if he is explicitly heterosexual?
I think this is an interesting pairing with the other explicitly heterosexual villain, Gaston, who still has some aspects of queer coding like vanity and the inability to recognize love beyond the physical, but reads more like a warning against ignorance in general. Also, I would definitely read a paper about how Frollo is a representation of the society that created the coded Disney villains of the past, and how leaning too far into heteronormativity and the appearance of perfection can be more damaging than just, letting people live their lives.
@@Xalerdane Highly recommend looking into the Hunchback of Notre Dame musical. They change Frollo pretty substantially (and more in line with Hugo's original book) by making him the pious arch-deacon. In it, he has a brother who leaves Notre Dame to marry a gypsy and Quasi is his child. On his deathbed he asks Frollo to raise Quasi and Frollo agrees, believing that by isolating and teaching Quasi, he can "protect" him and find redemption for failing to save his brother. Notably Frollo's story ends the same way - he becomes entranced by Esmerelda but can't accept this flaw in his own self image and he rallies a mob to catch and execute her. In the end, Esmerelda ends up dying from smoke inhalation and Quasi throws Frollo from the cathedral roof - citing Frollo's teachings that "the wicked must not go unpunished" and that despite Frollo's protective and infantilizing attitude towards him "he is VERY strong". Both versions are good, but I think the play does a better job shifting Frollo into a tragic figure and highlighting that his worst traits (self righteousness and arrogance) are really virtues that we can see in ourselves just taken to an extreme.
I feel like this trope has come full circle: People used to queer code villains because it was the only way to portray them Now people queer code villains because they're popular. A standard macho villain? Meh. A villain who loves musical theater? Now THAT we can make bank off of!
Heck people often find non flamboyant villains boring. Like look at Jafar then look at the villain from frozen. Now tell me 1 do you even remember his name and 2 wether it was the prince or the dad they were just boring. The prince wanted to marry then kill to get the thrown yet Jafar is more loved and the father was killed off and only the catalist for Elsa to have her nervous freak out because he made her scared of her power (hence why he's more remembered then the actual villain)
@@augustuzmoon3814 I can respect that. After all there are great non flamboyant villains, but my personal tastes are the villains that are over the top or flamboyant like joker or freeza. But there's non flamboyant/gay coded villains I like, light and two face are also great villains in my mind
"Look, I know some people are terrible alright, I don't mind. I just need them to not be terrible around me, OK!" This is my new favourite quote and should be available on a t-shirt.
Same. I actually intend to say it to the next person who suggests that gay people should be able to have state approved monogamous relationships, they "just think they should call it something other than marriage". Or any of the other segregated bullshit bigots like to say.
@@DaveTpletsch can you explain the quote to me? Is it that the mindset of some people is that lgbt+ people can exist just away from everyone else? Am i reading this correctly?
@@bruh-hq9fc Something like that. I suppose I don't hear that one specifically much anymore, but I live in a VERY conservative state, and it's something I hear parroted all the time any time LGBT+ marriage rights come up for debate. Basically it means what it says. Many conservatives I know, or knew, who like to think they're not bigots will say things like "marriage is between a man and a woman" and suggest that since queer people can't have babies with their partners in the traditional way, that they should have different names for the kinds of families they form, including marriage. They'll say they're fine with homosexual partnerships as long as it's not called marriage. I'm ashamed to say that I've said the line I quoted above a couple times myself growing up, before I understood that I myself was bi, or was allowed the chance to even consider the LGBTQIA+ side of the argument. Conservative indoctrination starts very young after all. I've heard that statement so many times I just assumed it was a common argument from conservative people, sort of a "they can have the same thing, just call it something different" attitude. Maybe it's a unique experience for me though. TLDR: conservative people I know are OK with LGBTQIA+ relationships as long as all our labels are kept separate.
This could also be a sub-point of why "sympathetic/tragic" villain has also been on the rise. When so many villain characters written as intended villains come off as interesting and relatable to an audience both queer and not queer (almost like the idea of confidently being yourself is universally relatable and desired), newer writers take that aspect in as well and tend to write antagonists as 3 dimensional, even if not expressedly queer coded. But I wouldn't complain as the trope of "there's a person inside everyone, even your enemies" is pretty positive and ironically a good modern moral to aspire to.
It is. Even though it would also be nice to acknowledge it and have the villain be an outright villain that will not become good. At the very least, you could make them tragic because you could get a glimpse on what they could be, yet they refuse to change.
That is likely a part of it, but the message of humanizing enemies is a really old concept. And I think the "3 dimensional villain" came from the Realism movement, with authors actively rejecting the concept of the "pure evil villain."
@@marykateharmon I was honestly expecting/hoping for something like this when watching Maleficent; a story that goes in parallel with the original animated film, but fleshes Maleficent out as a character and gives us an idea as to what makes her tick. In hindsight it was very naive of me to give Disney that much credit and I honestly don't think we'll ever get a villain from them, that we can fully understand and/or sympathize, while also recognizing what they do as blatantly evil. A nuanced and well reasoned human evil is uncomfortable, after all.
@@marykateharmon This redemption thing also brushes up against some backwards attitudes towards abuse victims and the healing process with some going on about how to heal, you have to forgive abusers or because they're family so they have to be forgiven. The downside is that the majority of shows that do it do it rushed with the villain either being the big threat instead of a minion and the redemption being more about other people being told to trust them instead of the villain ding any of the work. Or its skipped over. Case in point being the diamonds from Steven Universe, Legend of Korra's meditation scene and Draxum from Rise of the TMNT. These villains are also usually the most deplorable. If you want nuance, I'd check Higurashi Gou for how they handle Teppei. He comes to his own realisations, visibly shows how he's trying to change his ways and tries to amend things with Satoko; the niece he abused. Here's the thing though; the show visibly shows that there's too much water under the bridge for everything to heal or be forgiven and Teppei understands that, leaving it open ended.
My favorite queer-coded villain has to be James from Team Rocket. And the coding definitely helps his character. His flamboyance, over-the-top attitude, hybrid of complex lover/gay best friend relationship with Jessie, and general snark make him a very compelling villain
I’m in love with the fact that not only does James crossdress, but Jessie sometimes does as well. I think having them both do it reinforces the act as a bold expression rather than just singling out James for sometimes making himself look like a girl (which he totally rocks though). Of course his best costume will always be the mighty flaming Moltres!
They're pretty much the platonic ideal of queer people in an XX/XY relationship. Both of them are so flamboyantly not-straight and give a lot of suggestions that neither one of them is fully cis either, that even though we know in the manga that they marry and have a child, we know that they weren't straight-washed.
@@omegabet3912 possibly Genderfluid, Loki's possibly had no issue flippibg through genders if needed, if we remove any "christianizations" who knows how more out there Loki actually was
When I heard Oscar Wilde was “accused of sleeping with his son” I did a spit take and almost slammed the cancel button before realizing it was the Marques of Queensburys son
The information density and clear wording that Red brings to the screen are like that perfect super-rich dessert that tastes like heaven, but you can also trust it not to make you sick. It is *just.* *Right.*
my favorite "flaming" joke for a character is in arrested development, where George describes his prison cell-mate T-Bone as a "flamer," making Michael think T-Bone is gay when actually he's just an arsonist
The owl house at least I feel does a really good example on how to properly do a story that embraces queer Characters. Romance isn't the main part of the story but the romantic subplot between the main character and her bully turned friend turned love gets quiet a bit of spot light. What I especially like is how Dana terrace the creator goes out of her way to make being queer the norm. If two girls or two boys want to get together just as likely to happen as a boy and a girl. And we actually got a pretty big non binary character who is a love interest for one of our main protagonists. I would definitely recommend checking it out.
Props to Dana for actually writing a non-binary character who is not a shape-shifter or something like that, just a regular person. Also, poor Raine. I hope they are fine.
and lets not forget the unfeeling villain who is evil because they “don’t feel or understand love”, because as we all know if you don’t want a partner then you are automatically voldemort
Idk about a partner, i think its a way tp show a lack of empathy. There is Gaara for example, fits the example you described perfectly, kills ppl casualy at an young age. Does not realy care about his famly, he loves himself and violence. Typical edgy boy, he even has a mental breakdown when he sees his enemy get saved: So its used to describe how a character thinks, idk why you would feeld the need to project ur own sexuality on a fictional character, that is just kinda cringe. Try watching whatever show ur watching next time, insted of drifting into projection land.
already happens most villains in modern writing are blond blue eyed and German, rich and traditionally masculine. like that new movie with the rock in the jungle finding moon pedals.
Yeah. Though, I guess it’s not surprising that a culture that has an “assumed default” (straight white cis male) and enforced basically all heroes to be that default makes them incredibly boring.
Turing wasn't out like Wilde, but he was a strong man - he wasn't outed by someone else, a lover threatened to blackmail him, and Turing reported him to the police for that crime. He was a brave man who stood up for himself, even in the face of torture. He was a true icon and hero and just his existence as a proud, successful, likely autistic gay in that time is inspiring to me.
It's interesting, the divide between how different people remember Turing. If you ask anybody of around age 40-45 and above, they will usually say he was the man that broke the Enigma code and saved the war. If you ask anybody in their 30s or under, or any LGBT or neurodiverse people, we will most likely remember him as an autistic-likely gay icon who was brave, intelligent, and was murdered by the system for being different.
@@ejewart1450 I'm 22 and if you say Turing i think computer genius. Then again I'm also an engineer and am indifferent to queer stuff, i just ask you don't change existing characters make good new characters. Like James Bond is a sexy straight British man, he was based on a real person and is a cultural icon. If Hollywood tried to make a black female lesbian "James Bond" it wouldn't work because it isn't the character. On the other hand Uhura, Agent J, Nick Fury and many more are iconic black roles that would be equally disrespectful to cast as white and gender flipped.
@@voidify3 sorry, to clarify, he absolutrly was both and SHOULD be proudly remembered as both, I am merely observing that he TENDS to be viewed differently by different demographics
“Even suing the marquess of Queensbury for libel when he accused him of sleeping with his son. Which by all accounts he was.” God, such an icon was never born again
i had to do a double take on this comment because of reds' wording in the video xP so for anyone else wondering, oscar wilde was in a relationship with the son of the marquess of queensbury and they met when oscar was 37ish and alfred (the son of the marquess) was 21ish so. yeah dont worry everyone lol
@@professorpantherhardraad3921 he was sleeping with the son of John Sholto Douglas, 9th Marquess of Queensberry (the son in question was Lord Alfred Douglas)
6:50 I like how the first one says "nobody is perfect" and the moment he says that you can see the others facial expression change to being very intrigued. Both are bi and its honestly very funny to see that in a old movie.
Animated Maleficent is way superior to live action Maleficent. Cursing a baby to die because you weren’t invited to a christening is an iconic level of pettiness.
"Queer-Coded Villain" is the most fabulous character you've drawn on this channel, and I will fight anyone who disagrees. Also, as a pansexual person, it pains me to say that you almost HAVE to portray bi and pan people as highly promiscuous or many people will never believe that they're actually bi or pan. If they're primarily shown with partners of one gender, then people will assume or even insist that the times they're shown with partners(or even just A partner) of the other gender are just outliers and don't count. I've even had an actual person tell me "You can't like both, just pick one and stick to it." Like, they didn't care if I was gay or straight, I just wasn't allowed to be pan.
@@TheRedAzuki Yeah, or "you can't like Coke AND Pepsi" or "you can't like Country AND Rock". Why are we as a species so obsessed with boiling everything down to two options and then picking a side?
@@alphaxtitania5597 That is the sad state of the politics in my country,there's two main candidates who are absolute corrupt and egocentric sh1t who gonna wreack the country even more than it already is wreacked,but people are more interested in fighting anyone who don't vote for these two because they think the one they didn't vote will be worse than the one they chose.
I have to be honest the name "lavender wedding" sounds nice when you ignore what it actually means. Like a wedding with a lot of pretty flowers and everyone's dressed in purple.
Nowadays, thinking of the word without its context, it honestly sounds like something Gwyneth Palthrow would come up with. Lavender aromatherapy and color therapy and such, during a wedding to bless the couple with calm and prosperity or whatever.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Disney’s Robin Hood. Prince John was a Queer-Coded Villain in the film. This is a stark contrast with the real life Prince John. While Prince John is often depicted as a villain in various Robin Hood stories (due to his ineptitude as a military leader and the tax increases he created to support Richards crusade) he wasn’t gay in life. In fact, he had two wives in his life (the second wife he had 5 kids with) and is rumored to have been a ladies man. In contrast, King Richard is often speculated to have been a gay man or bisexual, as he had a relationship with King Philip II. This is even shown through their animals and voices. Both John and Richard are lions, though John has no mane. If a male lion doesn’t have a mane, it means that they were neutered and can’t produce testosterone. Richard has an impressive mane indicating he has testosterone and wasn’t neutered. Even their voices give this away. John has a very effeminate voice while Richard has a deeper and more masculine voice. They actually reversed the sexualities of two historical figures for the film.
I think the Robin Hood story in general has given King Richard and Prince John “Historical Hero/Villain Upgrades” respectively. By all accounts the real-life Richard was much more interested in going off to fight the Crusades than actually ruling England (and wasn’t a very good king anyway), and Prince (later King) John’s problems with ruling England mostly stemmed from his mother bankrupting England to bail Richard out after the Archduke of Austria captured him.
I didn't know the meaning of having a mane or not in lions, very interesting. I just disagree with Richard being gay. It was a belief which rose in the 60s because the historians misunderstood a paragraph in a chronicle reporting that Richard and Philip were so close that they ate from the same plate and slept together in the same bed. Actually they had just made an alliance against Richard's father and in the Middle Age a public act to show off the fact that you totally trusted your ally was sleeping in the same bed. Just to make an example, Edward IV, probably the most womanizer king of the English Middle Age, did the same thing after he had made a political alliance with a noble whose name I cannot remember. Also, Richard had an illegitimate son he recognized as his own.
Whenever queer baiting gets mentioned I always remember the recent Voltron series, and how they actively marketed their “gay character and his partner” for one of their seasons which ended up being a random guy in the background of one episode that the main character had 1-2 scenes with. They also killed off this love interest very quickly as to never have him be apart of the series moving forward.
I really love trope talk. In a completely pure, natural and socially accepted manner; which in no way compromises the economic viability of my endeavours and is left ambiguous if faced with any risk of controversy.
I feel the "they're just good friends" excuse can be a very viable answer. Mainly speaking as someone who is very close to his few friends, the only real barrier between friendship and dating is the one you two agree on.
This is the problem with "coding." It is a viable answer, but thanks to the internet's insistence on coding and labeling, it doesn't sound like a viable answer anymore.
It may be the asexuality in me speaking, but i never really understood the "barrier" between platonic and romantic love some people seemed to have. For me, romantic love is and always will be a messy thing thats if anything a contiunation of platonic love and you cant really separate the two.
@@leobastian_ In a handful of my fanfics I use romantic tropes in a platonic context, inspired by another fan writer who did much the same thing, LuckyLadybug. LuckyLadybug's portrayal of Lector and Nesbitt of the Big Five is what I can think of off the top of my head. In LuckyLadybug's work, Nesbitt is openly aroace, something that he frequently discusses with other characters, and Lector hasn't quite nailed down what his orientation is but wonders if he's demiromantic in one particular story. They explicitly aren't together, just ride or die best friends, but their relationship is the main focus of quite a few stories LuckyLadybug wrote in a way I've never seen before in a non-romantic context. It's not just them, though. Bakura once saves Yami Bakura’s life through the power of true love - its just that that love is completely platonic. I frankly would love to see more focus on platonic relationships vs romantic ones.
Part of the reason I love Studio Ghibli films is that the love between two characters is much more platonic than romantic or physical, and the villains don't need an implied "it's purely physical" moral stance/inherent queer coding to stand in opposition to the protagonists
I was really conflicted watching Princess Mononoke as a kid because the lady of Iron Town was supposed to be a "bad guy" but I couldn't help feeling sympathetic for both her and the protagonists.
@@migzrub7114 I wouldn't exactly call her the villain of the story, that was more the monk, and the conflict in general. I mean, I don't like her, because in my view she's far too ruthless and power hungry. But she wasn't really the main antagonist. Ghibli films often feature antagonists who oppose the main characters in some way but aren't really the villain of the story, more of a secondary character who happens not to get along with the protagonists and is perhaps a bit lacking in the morals department. (Curtis, The Army in Castle in The Sky, The Witch of the Wastes).
@@zoro115-s6b I think we can all agree though that Musca, from Castle in the Sky, was most definitely a villain. His whole goal was to use the Castle's technology to conquer the world.
@@zoro115-s6b I see that now but when I was a kid I was conditioned to see her as the "bad guy" because she wasn't on board with the protagonists plus it was my first Ghibli movie so I wasnt used to complex characters with their own goals and motivations.
@@kamikazelemming1552 Musca was the villain. But the Army wasn't really in alignment with Musca. He was just using them to get to Laputa, and never told them about the superweapon or his intentions with it. He then immediately turned on them, further showing that they were never on the same side. All they wanted to do was plunder all the treasure up there, which is exactly the same thing Dola and her gang wanted to do. I wouldn't classify them as any more villainous than the pirates really, they just got pulled into Musca's scheme by their greed.
There's no man in town half as admired as him; he's everyone's favorite guy. Everyone's awed and inspired by him, and it's not very hard to see whyyyyyyy...
I remember watching Sailor Moon and being incredibly moved by Zoisite's death scene. He and Kunzite were together in the anime and you could see how deeply in love with each other they were even though these guys were evil. Zoisite even asked Kunzite to give him a beautiful death, with Kunzite creating a world of flowers to be with him as he died. I think this example struck with me because the queer romance aspect made these two otherwise kind of generically evil dudes into tragic figures, especially since Kunzite would later die trying to avenge his boyfriend.
@@ravenfrancis1476 To be fair, they also died in the manga and weren't in a relationship like in the anime. Anime!Kunzite and Zoisite were more fleshed out, their relationship being entirely genuine. Later on Sailor Neptune and Uranus show up and they're also a couple.
@@kingofthegundam7974 or if you're watching the Cloverway dub, they censored Neptune and Uranus's relationship by making them cousins. Yeah, that's so much better than having a lesbian couple. /s
@@ravenfrancis1476 There were other queer characters, but those two are especially notable for going with the "Tragic Ending" route. Also, it was the 90's. In Japan.
I don't identify as trans, but I do like to present very feminine sometimes depending on my mood, and growing up on Rocky Horror Picture Show is why I tend to wear crop tops and carry purses in blatant disregard of public opinion
@@doubleoof7907 well I will add what my much smaller friend likes to point out a lot, I take for granted the fact that I'm 6'6 and like 220 pounds and therefore not someone most people would choose to confront regardless. Idk tho I have a hard time seeing myself as any kind of intimidating, especially when I'm wearing cat ears and thigh high socks 😅
I’m a trans girl, but in case you don’t know about this, but the label of “genderfluid” might be worth looking into? I dunno if it’ll apply to you or not. Figuring yourself out is hard
The reason people don't do those things is because one it would be freezing and two men pockets are big enough to fit everything in. So do what you like but it's less Christian Republican stares and more "thats very unpractical".
Adding on to “Some Like it Hot,” there’s an earlier comedic scene where the guy is cheerfully announcing his engagement to the rich man while his friend has to remind him that they’re both men. Also, for favorite queer-coded villain, I’ll cheat and put actual queer villain Hannibal Lector from the TV series named after him. Mainly because while he fits most of the archetypes of a queer-coded villain (is somewhat flamboyant, has no shame about himself or his lifestyle, gets very touchy-feely with others and especially with the protagonist Will Graham, etc.), his actual queerness (specifically, his feelings for Will) is what humanizes him. There’s several times in the show that he does something that he normally wouldn’t because Will is involved. Case in point: despite considering rudeness a cause for death, Hannibal doesn’t go after Will no matter how much of a little shit he is. Plus, the show followed the usual tropes of queerbaiting until season 3 where it went “actually, what you’re suspecting is correct! Murder husbands is a thing! Plus, we’re also throwing in murder wives!” Helps that Bryan Fuller is, himself, a gay man.
To quote myself describing my dnd campaign, "If you only queer code your villians that's a problem, but if you queer code everyone then that's just hot." Thusly my dnd campaign became ambiguously bisexual
There was nothing ambiguous about the bisexuality of my paladin of Sune, and I'll have it no other way. He wasn't actually *that* promiscuous, but god did he love to flirt. Being a champion of love, beauty, and music, is way more fun than a bog standard hero of justice or whatever.
It’s only hot because D&D is itself just a slice of your life. Can work fine for some games, but not exactly well rounded. Yeah... I spoil jokes. For what it’s worth, I found it funny.
@@Toastman30K oh so that’s what’s happening with the kid. I’ll remind myself next time to watch the video with glasses and in full screen lol, I was expecting a clear footage from a show or something, thanks Edit: typo
This video reminds me of the moment I realized the friend I grew up with in high school was no longer the friend I had now. I had gone through a -lot- and he was the only one that really stuck with me despite doing so putting him on the radar for the monsters in the school. Fast forward to just recently. I was on short-term disability for mental health reasons, and decided to pick up a little game called Undertale that someone had gifted me through Steam. I marathoned it in one day, getting the neutral and then true pacifist ending at 3AM in the morning, and it's one of the few games that I legitimately wish I could play again with fresh eyes. The themes of good and evil being a choice, the sly 4th wall breaks, DETERMINATION; all of it hit me at a time when I -needed- something good in my life. I don't exaggerate when I say it changed my life. It might have very well saved it. So I started looking things up about Undertale. Found music, found art, found stories. It was amazing, and to be honest a little disquieting at the same time. I had done some writing myself and thought I was clever with it, and the way that Undertake doesn't tell you but -show- you things made me feel like a third grader writing a DBZ fanfic. I went to talk about the game with my best friend, and he shut me down cold. Said he wasn't interested because Undertale pushed an agenda. "What, don't be an asshole?" I remember blurting out before I could stop myself. "The gay agenda," he replied, annoyed. I was speechless. This was a guy that had stuck with me all throughout high school while being called every gay slur imaginable. This was a guy who could have saved himself a -lot- of pain by doing the same when everyone laughed and pointed. And he's refusing to even talk about something that had such a positive effect on my life because two non-human female characters have a crush and kissed. (I suppose the two burly guards might count too but I almost forgot about them until just now). I wish I had something clever, or profound to say to him at that time. Or to comment about how disappointed I was in him for holding such a view. But I stayed silent.
That's rough, buddy. Meme aside, that must've hurt incredibly much. I mean, I personally don't like Undertale for its gameplay, but I heard that the story is widely acclaimed as a masterpiece. And that Sans is pretty dope. I could think about several other things that would "push the gay agenda" a lot more than Undertale. The game is full of greatly written characters, some of which may happen to not be straight. I hope that he either turns around and you two reconcile, because it is obvious how important he is to you and that you care, and I'm sure that he cares about you, too. Otherwise he wouldn't have sticked with you. Maybe you could try to talk it out? Sit down with a cup of tea, or soda, or whatever you like to drink, and talk about it calmly. Listen to each other's points of view. Also, I'm almost certain you have found it through your research, but if not, you will most likely also like Deltarune. It's free on Steam, I think, and supposedly very good. A dear friend of mine talked about it like you just talked about Undertale. To conclude, I wish you just the best in your future. Whether that includes your friend or not.
Oof my condolences friend. Perhaps there’s more issues to discuss with your friend? I’m not saying what they did was okay, by any stretch. That was incredible insensitive of them But perhaps there is some resentment from such homophobic treatment they received you mentioned that should be discussed and sorted through. Gently, mind. I once held very toxic views without realising it, even as I advocated for the LGBT+ community. I shut down hard whenever my biases were criticised. Mostly because such criticism was often rather harsh and confrontational. In hindsight I can understand why that was. But to defuse emotional responses is often a better strategy. At least some of the time. But I’m just some jackass on the internet. Just offering an observation. Keep well and keep safe. And know there’s always the Undertale fan community to discuss your love of it with. Hopefully you find more acceptance there
I have much the same relationship with Undertale, and it's heartbreaking that he would write off such a beautiful game because of homophobia. I hope he's open to understanding how messed up that is, and that your relationship can be repaired 💙💙💙
Prejudice and xenophobia can infect otherwise good people. We all have our blind spots. I encourage you to ask questions and challenge his assumptions. What is "the gay agenda" to him, and why is it a problem? Don't make it into a confrontation--simply explain that for you, the inclusion of a same-sex couple enhances, or at least doesn't detract, from the game's quality and messaging. That he understands the effects of bullying and harassment should pave the way for an epiphany.
People are going to sympathize with a character who can confidently be who they are, gay or not, almost regardless of what their other character traits are. So if you make all of your villains gay, people aren't going to not sympathize with your gay characters because they're villains, they're going to sympathize with your villains because they're gay. Which, ironically, is the exact opposite of what the Hayes Code was trying to accomplish.
The key to writing a good villain is to give them CONFIDENCE, villains shouldn't doubt who they are, they know who they are, damn anyone who says otherwise.
Gay isn't really the factor people like them it is because they are confident and really absolutely love being evil. Take for example sheev palpatine who loves every damn second of being evil and only cares about himself and tools he can use
Honestly, I'm a straight guy but have always admired how these villains didn't take shit usually. Maleficent was slighted, Ursala was banished instead of utilized, Scar was mistreated, and the ones that didn't have anything happen to them still made some sense like Shan-yu. Shan-yu is often accused of not being well characterized or deep but looking at the fact he is the leader of a Hun horde and stated the wall was "a challenge to his strength" and his response was "well, I'm going to play his little game" kind of indicates that China itself might have been somewhat hostile or at the very least the created an obstacle for his people keeping them from resources they needed. His followers were expert trackers, capable of detecting horse hair and black pine needles to deduce an Imperial army was up at this mountain pass. Shan-yu was a conqueror likely by necessity. Most men would fuck off after losing their army, so he likely kept going because he needed to come back to the families of his horde with something to show for the losses and maybe even unite the tribes to the North/maintain it. He may not have been gay, wasn't QCoded but he certainly respected Mulan regardless of her sex when her own nation didn't do that. She wasn't "some girl" she was "the soldier from the Mountains." If he was a bigot, he would have been furious about losing to a woman. Instead, he was only furious about losing. He even cast Shang aside when he initially blamed him for his loss, but went for Mulan because he knew she was the one who bested him, not the men. And hes bland compared to the QC villains who were fun, had power and felt free.
@@ajohnymous5699 I don't see any queercoding in Shan-Yu, not enough screen time outside fights. Also the big difference is Mongols (who the huns really are in the film) were far more progressive than China. Ancient China probably ranks near the top for the horrible treatment of women, few civilizations have ever taken female mutilation to the same level as foot binding. Mongols, in contrast, as a more nomadic group women held much higher station (males were too busy herding horses or fighting to administer the day to day so women gained more influence), and as such a skilled warrior women like Mulan is totally within Shan Yus expectation while a woman of high birth like Mulan that knows more than being polite and cranking out children (Prostitutes are where men were supposed to find intellectual/cultural stimulation) as a shame.
I appreciate your clear concise description of these tropes and why they are viewed the way they are. Too often when seeking answers about this kind of thing it devolves into an attack of the people that write stories with these tropes. You manage to acknowledge the damage these tropes cause while remaining focused on the topic at hand, which is EXACTLY what get people to understand perspectives like this that normally wouldn’t. Your doing good work red!!!!
“In the final scene of the movie, one of the musicians exasperatedly reveals to his smitten would-be-suitor that he’s a guy, in which the man replies “Well, nobody’s perfect.” I need to watch this movie ASAP XD
As someone who ends up writing a lot of queer non-white characters, I try to hold myself to a rule: “for every queer, non-white, neurodivergent, or GNC antagonist, there must be an equivalent protagonist.” One of my villains is extremely trans coded and flamboyant, but their nemesis is equally trans-coded. I have a few colored villains, but almost all of my protagonists are POC… because I’m a queer poc, and end up writing people I can relate to, but also because diversity needs to be portrayed as a good thing, not a bad thing. It’s not some crazy agenda… it’s just “if my only diverse character is evil, what am I suggesting?”
Thank you. I also hold myself in the same standard. There a story I’m working on where I have several characters who are lesbian and gay where the villain is gay and actually likes the hero and that’s his main motivation. Heck the hero is openly bi and actually returns some of the villains feelings before discovering how evil they are. It’s cool to know I’m not the only person out there with this idea. Heck I love it when I see parts of myself in a marvelously written villain especially when the hero has the same characteristic and I’d hate to see the LGBTQ+ community lose that due to this trope which honestly feels on par with the white savior trope in terms of implicit bigotry
it's a good rule. A rule I have for myself is that I have to do my utmost to present any character in a group, especially a marginalized group, I'm not a part of well. No matter if they are good or evil, I just have to do it in a way that is respectful, well researched, and well again respectful. Doesn't matter if I never intend the project to see the light of day, I just want to make sure I do a good job.
Don't worry about it too much, I'd say. It's just that thing where living all their lives with privilege makes people see fairness as discrimination or hostility.
Him was my first introduction to queer individuals. Honestly it made him interesting. The Scarlett was the devil motifs or that he usually gave the girls a run for their money. And he also didn't give a damn
My favourite part about this is that these "negative" traits end up making the characters way more charismatic than the characters that we're supposed to be rooting for.
Idk its a person to person thing, i like homelander for example, a lott of ppl hate him, he is ment to be hated. What i see with the character is is wasted potential, a superhuman who is put in the hands of a greedy massive company, raised by ppl with no morals. He was thout how to act like a hero, never how to be one, so when he tries to save ppl for real, he makes the sitoation worse. But this is mostly me projecting, seeing something that might not be there Just like ppl who project their sexuality on characters. Most of the time its, this guy looked at this guy so they are gay.
@@niropaxum958 No, they know that the villain is the bad guy, they just happen to be more fun to watch because of their more interesting personality. They root for the villain because that means more screen time for the most fun character. A key thing to remember is that rooting for a character doesn't necessarily mean identifying with the character or agreeing with them.
Tbf, that's kinda the point in some cases. Characters like Gaston have the people on their side typically, so it makes sense that they have intense charisma to back that up.
So, basically the Haze-Code put everything that can be potentially interesting about character, such as moral ambiguity, being faced with obstacles constructed by society, "character flavour", dark edgy backgrounds, violence, and much more, on the villain... No wonder people always loved the villains so much more :) wonder if anyone would have anticipated that.
For all their railing against Commie propaganda, the Hays Code basically wanted all films to uphold a moral standard the Hays office decreed was good. This is why cancel culture needs to hit the road: it's leading to the same kind of self-censorship of media, lest one portrayal or casting choice rile up an angry invisible mob. Sad part is, also like the Hays Code, cancel culture's power only comes from a studio's willingness to obey.
@@IamJustaSimpleMan You said that the Hays Code sand-blasted all the most interesting bits out of film. I'm saying it's ironic how they were doing this while the American public hated communists, both foreign and domestic, in part for doing the same thing with THEIR films.
@@1krani No, Im not saying the Hayse Code blasted the interesting parts out of the film, I said it concentrated them, despite its contrasting intention, in the bad guys, making them accidentally more interesting then the heroes. How you are making the connection to first so called cancel culture and now commounists from my comment, is beyond me.
@@IamJustaSimpleMan I'm a student of history, so I'm appraised of what was going on behind the scenes in the Golden Age of Hollywood. It heavily involved communists, who went on to invent cancel culture, which is essentially what the Hays Code amounted to for all the power it didn't wield. Though, back in the day, its first name was "struggle session".
My first Playthrough of Fallout New Vegas, I took the perk "Confirmed Bachelor" - Only later did I realize this was a 50's Euphemism for Gay, but upon learning this knowledge, reveled in the knowledge that I was playing a gay cowboy. Yeehaw!
"This is less of a behavioral queer stereotype and more tied into the actual queer experience of feeling fundamentally separated from the concept of a fairy-tale love story happy ending." ... BIG oof.
@@InventorZahran As long as it includes any character (good guys included; you can just go "fairy tale BS" to bring them back, like in "The Two Brothers" where one of the main characters dies TWICE IN A ROW) dying in some way and/or something horrific happening to anyone at all (Ex: villain dies by being thrown into a barrel full of nails and drowning). The original fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm were pretty dark.
@@fatimazafar4200 If anything, there are more than enough stories that contain romance; it's probably more difficult to find one that doesn't. Ultimately, write whatever resonates most strongly with you. As readers, we can tell when an author is being true to themselves, and it makes the written work much better!
I know this probably won’t be seen, but whenever I watch these videos, there are always several moments where I think “oooh, that’s an idea that would be interesting to write!” This video, however, hit different in a good way. I’ve had this idea for a series for a while now that I’ve been having difficulty planning/creating. The things you spoke about in this video gave me some ideas about the theme and how to set up the world and create the characters. So thank you for the help!
@@VitaNewbo It’s an alternate earth fantasy setting, though it’s still in very early development. It may be a long while before there is anything worth seeing at this point.
You know what my favorite trope is?a villain with a love interest. but not a love interest that redeems them. No I want a love interest that is their partner in crime and adding a whole bunch of gay just makes it even better.
Sylas and Delilah Briarwood from The Legend of Vox Machina are a couple like this, they’re so delightfully evil and in love with each other it’s ridiculous
I saw Some Like It Hot in the early 90s when I was around 11. To this day, it is one of my favorite movies ever. I find it surprising that they were able to get the trans plot like through the censors. But I also will always wonder how they got Marilyn Monroe’s dress (if you’ve seen the movie, you know which one) through censors. Even today, that dress would be a scandalous dress. An absolutely fabulous dress, but scandalous nonetheless.
They WEREN'T able to get it through the censors. Some Like It Hot was such a turning point for the Hays Code because it became a commercial hit despite not getting their stamp of approval
I saw it in a film & fiction class way back in high school, and the entire movie builds up to that one joke so effectively that I think it's more accurate to say the entire movie is just the one joke, with the whole thing building up to that single punchline at the very end. It was a good thing it was my last class of the day, because I was laughing all the way home. It may not be my all time favorite, but it is absolutely in my top comedy list, and quite possibly the hardest I've laughed at any one joke in my life.
@@StubbeA And it wasn't just a commercial hit. It received several major Oscar nominations, and won one. That the "Hollywood elite" embraced it was an even bigger blow to the Hays code than its box office success.
I remember when the Harley Quinn animated series was still in its second season a lot of people were worried the show was going to queerbait them. Thankfully the show actually took that romance plot pretty seriously and while I know some have issues with the cheating plotpoint (I cut a little slack since they were vey drunk when it happened (still bad but less actively malicious than if it'd happened while they were sober)) I actually quite like how the love triangle story and Harley and Ivy's respective personal issues were handled. I'm really looking forward to season 3.
Honestly, I thought the whole romance with kite man was more displeasant than the cheating part. I just really didn't like Kite man, and it was so obvious Ivy and Harley were gonna be together it was either LGBT baiting, or just a waste of time. And I hate both in media XD
I didn't really like season 2 of Harley Quinn because it started being less and less about Harley Quinn and the gang being villains. I mean sure, there was the whole plot about taking over the gangs and getting revenge for being frozen, but it felt like the focus was on the characters's romantic drama. It felt more like a tv sitcom (or drama, if the focus was the romance) about people who happened to be villains than villains doing villain stuff (like robbing banks, maniacal laughters, giving longwinded speeches, antagonizing the good guys) and succeeding. They were put into situations that were too domestic. Also why I don't like the Looney Tunes show. That one was DEFINITELY too much of a sitcom. Bugs Bunny shouldn't worry about stuff like rent, or relationships, noisy neighbors; she should be in the woods antagonizing Elmer Fudd! Daffy Duck shouldn't be worrying about getting a job and only be a jerk 24/7 (also I feel like they put too much season 3 Duck Dodgers into his characterization); he should be in a pond being insane and a better Bugs Bunny (that's subjective on my part). What I'm trying to say, is that they act too much like different people
They're planning on a 3rd season? Also, people don't do things they're entirely opposed to simply because they've had a few shots. Alcohol doesn't fundamentally change who you are. If someone cheats while drunk you can be dang sure they'd do it sober too. Alcohol is just a socially accepted excuse.
@@trajectoryunown Yes, there'll be a third season. Supposedly either at the end of this year, or beginning of 2022. BTW, one thing that no one talks about - Ivy killed Kite Man's arch and lied about it. In comic book terms, that's arguably an even bigger betrayal than the sexual infidelity. I hope it comes back to create drama next season.
_"From this primordial media soup arises the queer-coded villain in all their glory--everything taboo and indecent in reality embodied totally unsubtle on the silver screen: men who are visible effeminate, women who are visibly masculine, villains who are hypersexual..."_ So basically, anything sexy and fun. Never change, America.
"queerbating" Ah yes, like how Disney films have had their "first ever LGBT character" about eight times now, and they're always a minor character on screen for five minutes total, and their orientation is only ever acknowledged in external media anyway so it might as well not even be there in the first place. I've also noticed that gay men are underrepresented even in the more openly accepting media, like She-ra and the Owl House. Main character LGBT reps are almost always female (with non-binary but feminine-appearing partners appearing as minor side characters usually), while male reps are relegated to one character's "goofy dads." Adora and Catra, Spinnerella and Netossa, Perfuma and Scorpia, and... Bow's Dads. Side Note: Double Trouble was my favorite character. Amity and Luz, Rayne (nb) and Eda, and... Willow's Dads. Pearl and Rose, Ruby and Sapphire, Sadie and her NB partner... At least Rainbow 2.0 was good, though not necessarily gay, his personality was delightfully campy. SU didn't have any masculine couples that I can recall lol So yeah, while we're getting closer, I'm still noticing a reluctance at certain situations.
Well, there's more sapphic representation because sapphics wrote those shows, and none of it came easily. I feel that the fact that we see the final result really undercuts how much risk every same sex couple in a show WAS, to the point of cancellations and career threats. Lesbians AREN'T more socially acceptable, in fact both She Ra and TOH were told the fact they had 'gay dads' was acceptable gay rep but they couldn't have the girl protagonists date because that was too risky. Netossa and Spinnerella were considered a risk, let alone Adora and Catra. Steven Universe struggled with being broadcast, and in that and My Little Pony, the tomboy characters were dubbed as 'acceptable' boys in many other language dubs. So yeah, we need more queer couples of ALL types, but putting down the massive efforts to get the few canon same sex couples we do have does no one any favours
I would say that I think it depends on what medium you're looking at? 'Kids' TV does tend to have more lesbian couples, but it's quite hard to find books that focus on lesbian couples, and the same goes for TV shows pitched to teenagers and up.
It's not the creators fault, they really have to fight for any representation they can get. We should hold the people who have power over media instead of throwing the creators under the bus. I know that's not what you mean in your comment, i just wanted to say it because some animation fans think the creators have all the power and are doing things to be assholes, wich irks me a little bit. Nothing against you.
I think it’s a bad take to say that lesbians are more accepted in media and then list shows written by wlw. There should be more mlm in media, yes. But it isn’t fair to look down on popular wlw media for that.
I think you left out a phenomenon that's been going on a lot lately: Some people within the LGBT communities want representation so badly that they may ironically be doing themselves what the Hays code resulted in society doing to queer characters originally, that is, conflating stereotype with representation. Where now any character who may share one or more qualities with the stereotype is being assumed to belong to the stereotyped group, even when they plainly aren't. And while representation isn't a bad thing, that attitude can serve to damage the group as a whole by reinforcing that they ARE the stereotype. You wind up getting something akin to, for example, "Oh, that girl dyes their hair an unusual color. Clearly they are a lesbian, because only lesbians dye their hair unusual colors, and noone else." Or, "Oh, that man has a flair for the dramatic and isn't muscular. Clearly they are gay, as only gay men have flairs for the dramatic without being muscular." It's a weird kind of self-stereotype that keeps cropping up lately, which I think comes from a combination of writers being unwilling to give solid positive character examples, and the community wanting those character examples to claim as representative, and perhaps wanting them so much that they're willing to buy into the very stereotypes used against them. I just get wary any time I see someone trying to claim that every X character is secretly Y, or even secretly not Y.
Stereotypical writing is everywhere. . Dont hark on them when most writers do it with everything. Its just more notacable there, but do you think the whole bland maleor female love interests is because ill intentions, its more lazyness in writing. And tropes aren inherently bad, as ling as they arent just lazy used as shortcut without thought.b
Yeah, this reminds me of those people who insist that Naoto from Persona (a female character who crossdresses as a male because females are looked down on in the kind of work she’s engaged in) is closet trans just because she masquerades as a male for some time. When those who are starved for representation try to redefine already established characters so that they can have one to call their own, well that’s pretty disrespectful to the personality behind the original character. And the vocal minority gives the more reserved people in the group a bad image, so no one wins. The only way to have justice is to do it the right way, I think. Likewise, I feel concern when people “settle for less” in bad depictions of minorities because it’s all they currently have. No, I think it’s better to make abundantly clear that it isn’t enough, and let no illusions betray that statement. Otherwise the status quo won’t change.
@@emblemblade9245 Because naoto is at least trans coded, And japan is not progressive, , its already big to have a atranscoed and gay character in a game. Even if not romancable. Who also, spoke through a flower metaphotical about it. Its disrespctful to not see naoto as trans coded. Why cant a female detective be respected, in a video game?!. There is sexism but thats a far stretch, to have a deniablitity you actually have trans reprentation.
@@emblemblade9245 somehow i feel they more focus on Naoto than the actual character with gay desires, Kanji. Maybe because most players chose Naoto as best girl and usually take her route so loud minority try to enforce their ideology on a popular character. Most persona players, find strong women super attractive prolly why Naoto and Mitsuru are best girl of their games, personally chose their route.
How do queer people always find each other? I've noticed as I've gone through high school and now college that, one by one, all my friends are gay. My brother is bi, my bestie is bi, my co-bestie is both lesbian and nonbinary, and I only really have one straight friend left?? I dont get how that happened. We all, separately, fought ourselves about it on our own. My co-bestie was so anxious to tell she wan nonbinary because he was worried I would stop wanting to be friends, meanwhile I'm over here like "eyyy jammidodge is my fave youtuber bro" and that's happened with basically everyone I know??? The reason I say this is because I've been watching this channel for years. I watched it all the way back in middle school. Recently, when JK Rowling was super transphobic, imma be honest I was really afraid for a bit that all my favorite creators would hate me for being me. But then... one by one, the channels start being more and more supportive. I remember specifically sitting and watching SciShow Phych and them going "Hey! This research was ONLY in relation to cisgender individuals, so theres a gap in this study there" and I cried lol. And even though I'm pretty late watching this, it means so much to me, personally, that a channel that shapes so much of my personality would dedicate a whole episode to something like queercoding. I've always loved trope talks, and sometimes stumbling on unexpected support from a familiar face is what I need to get through the night. Thank you.
i am a pansexual gender questioning sack of flesh who just got out of 5th grade. many of the friends I've grown up with are also gay. I was actually suprised to learn: WE. ARE. EVERYWHERE.
i think it’s partly because of the connection between autism and queerness. a lot more autistic people are gay compared to allistic people, and because autistic people have similar communication styles that allistic people find weird, we naturally seek each other out.
That's actually a pretty interesting observation. I(knowingly) have only straight friends, with the exception of my girlfriend, of course. I do have some good accquiantances on all ends of the spectrum, but my core friend group now is mostly happily in a hetero marriage, half of them with kids.
I’m surprised that The Maltese Falcon(1941) was not mentioned. It’s historically important being the first Noir film while also being highly successful at its time. The two main themes of the story are love and greed. The main relationship between Detective Spade and Brigid is portrayed as manipulative and faulty as Brigid constantly lies about her identity. On the other hand, the queer relationship between Cairo and Wilmer is portrayed as genuine. It is insinuated that they broke up before the story started, but Cairo is willing to put himself in front of the unconscious Wilmer when Gutman(the main antagonist) threatens him. By the end of the story, Wilmer is actually the one to stop Gutman, while Spade lets him run away. It does not necessarily break the trope as both Cairo and Wilmer are antagonistic, but it comes across as very sympathetic.
This is something I've never really understood with Queer-baiting and if someone can give me an explanation or just another perspective, by all means please do so. How much coding does it generally take for someone to be identified as queer? I'll use Frodo and Sam from Lord of the Rings for example. It wasn't until recently that I found out a lot of people were saying Sam and Frodo were gay for each other, whereas I legitimately only saw them as the best of friends. The traits I saw in them were traits I share with my friends and those traits are greatly admired. So I guess my question, how much coding goes into the difference a character doing something because they are a friend, and them doing something because they are a lover?
The whole Frodo and Sam thing is really just the result of platonic friendships being alienated more and more in mainstream media as time goes on A guy can't compliment or comfort another guy (same deal with women) nowadays without being seen as gay
This is a matter of interpretation. It's like asking how blue the curtains have to be to convey sadness. Different people interpret things differently. Homosexual people for example are more likely to interpret Frodo and Sam as romantic, simply because they enjoy depictions of homosexuality.
Probably a mix of being starved for gay representation, the social stigma around any close relationships between men lest they be perceived as gay, and perhaps just a pinch of seeing their own relationships being reflected on screen. Like, a lot of people I know say their partner is simultaneously their best friend. While there are some people that take that concept extremely far and end up saying there's no distinction between a close platonic relationship and a romantic relationship, or that your partner SHOULD be your best friend, I generally agree that a solid platonic friendship is a good foundation to build a romantic relationship.
Just note that Double Trouble was made by Noelle, a non binary trans lesbian who said they always identified with non-human shapeshifters BECAUSE they are a non-binary person (see also their comic Nimona)
I don't even think that the idea of non-binary people being represented by shape-shifters is necessarily bad... I mean, it's kind of a wish-fulfilment, that's what I hear a lot. Especially for gender-fluid people, so they are perceived by the people around them exactly the way they feel, and they never have to explain themselves. I'm especially thinking of Alex from the Magnus Chase novels (books in the Percy Jackson world, sort of kinda sequels I think?)
I once heard it described approximately like this: The problem isn't the fact that characters like Double Trouble exist. The problem is that that's very nearly the *only* kind of non-binary characters that happen. There's a portion of the audience that grows tired of almost every non-binary character having to be something inhuman. It is true that in that particular show, most of the main characters are some sort of fairy princess, and many characters have animal-like traits like fish tails and lobster claws. But Double Trouble, being more reptilian, still seems a bit more distant from the "human" baseline. Even the plant princess seems mostly human, with the flowers and vines serving almost more as decoration than as a separation from humanity. It can be less a matter of disliking Double Trouble, and more a matter of wishing there was more variety available, and seeing confirmation reflected in the media that non-binary people can still be human. Double Trouble is one of my favorite characters, but I do also agree with the point that we need more nonbinary characters in general, so that we can have characters like Double Trouble without that being *all* we have.
@@skaryzgik Again, context matters. Those non binary characters were made by cis people in the past. As a result, us who grew up with them ended up identifying with shapeshifters, monsters etc. Reclaimed them. This nb creator did too.
so what does "law, (natural or human) shall not be ridiculed nor shall sympathy be given for its violation" mean? like does that mean that sci fi is illegal because flying ships breaks the laws of physics? does that make homosexuality double illegal?
@@vintheguy Breaking a law isn't prevented. What matters is that it isn't ridiculed. If someone just mouthed off on gravity and Newton, all while floating above the ground*, that would be disallowed. Explain how flying ships work, so that they aren't actually breaking the law of reality, a-okay. *And now I'm thinking of the song Defying Gravity from Wicked.
@@vintheguy 1. Why bring this up, as a response to my comment? 2. Airplanes were invented before Hays Code. And most aliens draw inspiration from either humanoid biology or Earth-based animals. Are you really suggesting that speculative inventions based on current nature/physics is breaking Hays Code? For another example, the 1930s had Radios and Telephones; would combining both inventions into a cell phone for a movie be against nature, physics, etc? I can ask that, because the first cellular call was made 5 years after Hays Code ended. 3. Hays Code was made during a time without CGI or digital editing. Everything shown needed a practical effect, making it plausible in nature. You want a Ray Gun? Either film a quick burst flamethrower, a firework, or similar, then superimpose that footage as the Ray.
Plausible deniability. If nobody asked and nobody told, queer coding in non-villains could occasionally make it past the censors, especially in comedic deuteragonists like the Cowardly Lion, where they could pass them off as just being "socially awkward" and "not understanding the unseemly implications of their actions".
The Hays Code, it's wording is so vague, the natural law part meant that it was culturally subjective. Like showing someone drinking coffee or alcohol would be considered against the natural law of some religions. Just as showing a girl and boy playing a board game together with cultures that have strict gender roles would. The thing that annoys me the most, the part of the Bible that says that homosexuality is wrong is a mistranslation. It doesn't say "A man who sleeps with another man shall surely be stoned", it actually says "A man who sleeps with a child shall surely be stoned (I should clarify, it directly translates to boy but the original language didn't have a word for girl or child, so boy was used to refer to any child older than a baby but younger than a adult). That line which was used to justify discrimination against homosexuals, was actually condemning paedophiles.
Wired side note: did you know that because of this kind of stuff, the writer of the batman comics at the time had to put Robin srounding by a whole bunch of women because Robin (a 13 year old) was seen a homoerotic because he spent to much time with batman 🙅🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Well, It would be hell of a lot less sus, if not for the way Robin was dressed... And that batman continues to adopt traumatized orphans and dressing them all up in the same costume...
I want a story where a knight is going on her hero's journey or something, and ends up in conflict with a villainous witch who does typically Disney villain things, but then the chemistry is too strong and they hook up and the rest of the plot is them being an adorable odd couple with the knight trying to be heroic and the witch wanting to do crimes
This is exactly what my friend and I are doing with our dnd characters! He’s a bubbly bard and I’m a grumpy necromancer. The Bugs Bunny x Squidward paring that we all didn’t know we needed.
I would suggest looking through manga then. Japan tends to do this more than american/western fiction. Can't think of names though, I barely remember my favorites.
I'm not sure I'd call a two people with every reason to deeply despise and want to murder each other an 'adorable odd couple'. More like 'toxic disaster for all involved'.
@@zoro115-s6b As stated, probably. I think it can be workshopped, though. It all depends on what "doing crimes" entails. Maybe the laws that are to be broken are actually awful, and the knight should have some sympathy for someone who's breaking them. Sort of like, in D&D alignment terms, a Lawful Good character going off to fight what they think is a Chaotic Evil character, only to find a Chaotic Good one who's just angry and depressed and lashing out instead.
It's also really interesting to me how there seems to be a direct correlation between characters being neurodivergent (usually autistic) coded and characters coded to be asexual/aromantic, which has to do with the infantilisation of both neurodivergent people (especially autistic ones) and asexual/aromantic people, because a lot of people think that in order to be asexual/aromantic one has to have the "mind of a child" or be "innocent and pure" and autistic people are considered "children in adult bodies", thought to be more "innocent and pure" than neurotypical people.
The Scar thing is actually kinda plausible, as lions are one of the many non-human species that often form same-sex relationships, which is why I love that a group of lions is called a PRIDE.
I read once that it’s been documented that two lions will successfully share a pride. The catch is, lions reinforce their position by regularly banging the females, and to make the relationship work the two males will take it in turns to bang each other. So now you have to wonder what exactly it was about not being king that got under Scar’s skin…
@@Xalerdane You are aware that lions that share a pride are I believe in more then 90% of the cases brothers. So not sure if that incest route is what you want advocate for. Also fun lion fact, Scar would be the dominate male/more attractive male from the two brothers. His dark mane is very attractive to lionesses as it shows an increase in testosteron and fuffils the same role as peacock feathers and the like in nature and reproduction.
@@BrotherHood-xh9sg Hey man, there's a species of mite that's born pregnant with multiple female offspring and only one male offspring inside, and the females take it in turn to mate with their brother before eating their way out of mom and leaving his underdeveloped ass to die with her. Human standards of sexual morality aren't necessarily animal standards of sexual morality. You're 100% right about Scar being the one who got all the looks though. RL lionesses all like their men tall dark and handsome. Guess Mufasa was just one of those guys who're far more charismatic and charming than they look.
Let's also not forget that the Hayes Code only existed because of the threat of government censorship. A lot of film-makers actively despised it because of the frequently stupid limits it placed on the medium, but the threat of congress actively passing laws to censor it let them tolerate it because it was still better than having government spooks standing over your shoulder and watching you make art, with the implicit threat of jail time if you didn't conform. This was the lesser evil.
@@kaboomgaming4255 It's never existed, lol. It was way too broad of an amendment, considering if taken literally, it would literally not count for active threats against you. Even in the way that we consider it today, where the freedom is negligible if a threat is sufficient, it's *never* been treated as such. The Sedition Act is an obvious early example, since no one ever really intended to follow the amendments. (At least the ones that are super broad)
@@cheezemonkeyeater Do keep in mind that Carlin was primarily referring to the batshit insane ridiculousities of the Cold War era, where they censored and sanitized absolutely everything, so it's not really comparable to anything in the modern day. (Though, that's just for the free speech amendments.)
I'm straight and I'm trying to write a story about a MC supervillain who's bi (kinda like Megamind for an adult audience). So THANK YOU for this because a) I wanna know the roots and make it self-aware and not harmful and b) I just....love villains so freaking much.
my one piece of advice would be make sure the only significant queer character isn't the villian. a bi villian is fine, as long as they're not the only queer character.
It strikes me how much subtext I miss; I would've never thought of Megamind as bi-coded. Also, I've heard that Thor: Ragnarok is bi culture (Hela being the prime bi villain), so maybe just absorb that into your system while you're writing.
Oh my f*cking God. Write whatever you want dude. Don't be afraid of the political correctness mob. If representation was done right, LGBT characters should occupy only a few percentages of the total cast, to reflect reality. But writers who write for gay audiences skew that percentage heavily anyways. So why should you care about what's "proper"
@@somewhereelse1235 we kinda do tho, often without even realizing it. Like, so many of my childhood friends that I hadn't seen for years came out around the same time I did. Somehow we always seem to find each other.
7:05 "...broadly heralded the beginning of the transition to where we are now - queer identities being publicly acknowledged and celebrated has become the mainstream attitude, while bigotry is considered the embarrassing unfortunate reality best swept under the rug." While things have certainly gotten better (by quite a margin, which im happy for) sadly we're far from bigotry being the hush-hush shame that this implies. Between Terf Island spitting out new hate every day, comedians just saying bigoted shit and pretending that it's a joke so it isn't allowed to be criticized, and all of the legal battles queer people are fighting for their basic rights beyond "here's your paper that says youre married now that gives few to none of the rights that straight marriage does"it's still a very much prevalent uphill battle that bigots are losing, but definitely not losing quietly or ashamedly.
I can see why Nico Di Angelo hid his sexual identity for as long as possible. Note this character in the Riordanverse was born around the time period when gay people were treated badly even killed. He feared that inspite of the fact that he's now several decades all that ended he was still afraid that even telling his sisters or his closest friends would have them turn on him. Even after 1 finds out and was fully supportive he was like you can't tell the others if they find out...His friend cuts him off saying you'll have that many more people up support you and bring the wrath of the gods down on who ever will give him a hard time about being gay but it's his choice when to reveal it. He eventually does at the end of the next book even getting a boyfriend.
I'm with you, but one sentence has me very confused. "Note this character in the Riordanverse was born around the time period when gay people were." Were there supposed to be more words after "were"? Because people have been gay since the dawn of time, so as it is I don't know what you're saying here.
To be fair to Maleficent, how are you gonna give somebody a "true love's kiss" if youve never seen them awake? Thats a "true horny's kiss" at best. Love doesnt happen at first sight, thats called horny. Love comes when you actually know someone.
Now I want a version of sleeping beauty where the prince is about to kiss her, then Cheems just appears out of nowhere and sends him to horny jail, and it's the sound of him getting bonked that wakes her up.
@@KittyOfChess I believe the original has her assaulted in her sleep, get pregnant, then the baby sucks the needle out of her finger when it's born. A rare time to appreciate Disney making it family friendly.
13:26 Two words, one name: Trevor Phillips. And I think the reason bi and pan characters are portrayed as promiscous is because that's the only way to "show" they're actually bi/pan. If they were single or, God forbid, in a steady relationship with someone, they could say "Oh yes, indeed, I find that person over there of a different gender than my partner extremely appealing and I'd be ready to go down on them right here and now!" and people would wave it away saying "Oh, they're just into fashion and really like what that person was wearing. Or they just appreciate their good looks. Nothing romantic or sexual about that." On the other hand, writers might fear that bi/pan characters who don't "act out" their sexuality might come off as queerbaiting, especially when they're in hetero relationships.
Oh man. One of my bisexual OCs is charismatic and flirtatious (respectfully), but he is also very motherly, responsible, and overall a sweet man. Part of the reason why he is flirtatious is because that's just how he is, but it's also because I needed to show that he was bisexual and not just queerbait. Reading your comment made me feel guilty of stereotyping but idk what to do!
The way I see it is… Some straight protagonists only ever get one character they have stated attraction to. Even if there’s tons of people of the opposite sex, it doesn’t mean they find them all hot. If a character says they’re bi but over the course of the story only finds one person they have a romantic interest in, is that realistic? If so, is it ok to do, or do they NEED to display attraction to both genders at some point or else them being bi is wasted? I wonder if subconsciously this is the conundrum people have when including such a character. Or maybe not.
@@emblemblade9245 I guess it all depends on why you have a bi character. If you've decided this character is bi because you want a bi character, then it's normal to want to do something with, or at least to show it. On the other hand, if them being bi arises naturally as you write, then you don't need to show it: you realized your character is bi, so should your readers. If you want to show it, you just need them to be attracted to other people. You can be in a serious relationship and wonder if things would have worked with X, or notice that Y has a really nice ass, or that you can't understand how you ever found Z sexy.
See, this is why I love The Dragon Prince (among other reasons). It shows pride, doesn't make it a huge deal, but doesn't hide it. They treat it like a normal relationship, nothing more, both less.
Same! And I think we're only going to be getting more representation in the show as time goes on. Do you think Kazi would count as a "human" enby, since elves don't seem particularly alien in this show?
same with kipo and the age of wonderbeasts! one of the main characters comes out as gay (spoiler) and it’s handled very normally by everyone around him. he’s just gay and it’s not a big deal. anyway go watch kipo rn it’s on netflix
The biggest mistake queer writers make is trying to *prove* their characters can be gay. The greatest victory queer writers can claim is just letting their characters be gay.
The Owl House does this to some extent as well. you could argue that the scene where Luz officially comes out to her mom defeats this point, but coming out is still normal to queer culture
The ace robot thing is such a mood, like is it the best rep? No. Can the existing characters be pried out of my cold dead hands by this point? Also no
That seems fair!
Funnily enough I can think of an asexual, agender character who has an incredibly meaningful bond with another character without ever being close to romantic. And of course they actually wind up actually being a bio-engineered terminal for a supercomputer instead of just able to access it.
So close...
It's so true.
I do recommend The Disastrous Life of Saiki K for amazing aro-ace rep. The main character is aro-ace, he's not evil or a robot or child-like. He's just a superpowered highschooler who wants a peaceful life.
The converse, however, is almost inevitable. Why would a sapient machine, which by definition reproduces by construction, even have genitals (nevermind even be human-shaped)? Sex just will not be A Thing for a being that reproduces by designing and assembling a new person.
This is not an argument for using them as the only form of ace representation. It shouldn't. There should be compelling _human ace characters._ Leave the asexuality of machine-people out of it unless it's specifically relevant to the plot.
Jim: "This homosexual is committing an act of public indecency!"
Bob: "By jove! That madman! Under what circumstances did you stumble upon his foul, heinous acts of public sexuality?"
Jim: "Well you see, me and five other guys followed him around and spied on him for half a year until we managed to witness him quietly pulling another man into his sleeping quarters."
Bob: "..."
Jim: "What? We caught that homosexual red-handed!"
Bob: "I don't think you know what 'public' indecency means."
Jim: Egads, is it public because in was in the city which is a public place
Jim: I'll show them, I'LL SHOW THEM ALL!!!
@@Brian-tn4cd
Jim: it’s public because WE made it public
I love how Jim is probably more gay here.
Jim: "I watched the whole thing. I even took photographs for research!"
Bob: "..."
Who'd have guessed that making a confident character that people could see themselves in would make fans and creators enjoy said character.
True that
Confident. Not jackasses. Thats the line the recent writers are forgetting lately...
This is why we fighting for! Our government just passed a ridicoules law which forbit any book which "popularize homosexuality" (which basically means any positive gay character) can't put to they showcase, and only can sold coverd in a non-transparent foil. Also bookshops can't trade any of these novels close to 200 m to a church, which almost every store in Hungary. :(
And it can add diversity which also a plus, and not super predictable cupboards
I’M SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY!!!
"Well, nobody's perfect," is one of the most hilarious (and maybe accidentally progressive) lines I've ever heard.
Ironically I would easily buy that it wasn't an accident. There are a fair number of writers of that era who bucked the Code as hard as they could without *breaking* the code.
@@selonianth there were absolutely people who did that, and I love them for it, but some like it hot was actually released without being hays code approved - that’s why it’s often credited with being part of the downfall of the hays code, because its financial success helped release the chokehold that the code had on the industry.
it was not accidentally in the slightest, they changed it TO "Nobody's Perfect" when they were told they couldn't use the line "I know"
@@selonianth The sort of thing happens all the time. Artists will turn into absolute lawyers about the finest minutae when they want to get around dumb rules like that. The entire reason that 'the western' became such a big genre is because the Hays Code didn't allow stories about revenge unless it's in a historical context.
Similarly, offensive songs on the radio. You can't say 'suck my cock' in a song on the radio, but everyone knows "can you blow my whistle" isn't about a wind instrument.
@@equidistanthoneyjoy7600 or If You Seek Amy isn't about someone actually looking for anyone named Amy.
"God, calling someone out for 'public indecency' when you had to hire a team of private detectives to find them out would be so funny if it hadn't ruined so many lives."
Oh yeah, absolutely.
It's funny regardless. I have a morbid sense of humor.
“While being queer is inherent, being an asshole is selective” is a very good quote. I like that one.
I will defenitely use that
Perfectly succinct
Not a fan of it kinda disagree.
@@CrispyChaos38 How? That is literally true.
the problem is people are calling "asshole or bigot" to pretty much everything now. even things as petty as using pronouns for a newborn baby.
Funny how this particular trope has aided the development of another: generic, white-bread heroes and super interesting villains.
Yeah... The number of white, straight, rugged male with a brooding pass is not only a trope but basically the primary format for any Warrior/Fighter character on RPGs
@@ianesgrecia8568 And they never ever can not just be not interested romantically, and in any genre and story no matter how unfitting there must be a romantic interests. Or tragic lost love.
@@ianesgrecia8568 so Nathan Drake, Aiden Pearce, Solid Snake, Sam Fischer, and Jon Snow by this logic are all the same character? Yeesh
@@Stynkrat You can put about every damn other one too. Geralt from Witcher, Chris Redfield from Resident Evil, Rambo, Terminator, Scorpion King, Fast and furious... The list is endless...
Except from FFs. In Japan the stereotype is more of a pretty boy then the rugged type.
@@ianesgrecia8568 mhm, feminine men are commonplace in Japan just like how rugged manly men are common in the west, yet nobody gives Japan crap for it.
I find it odd that things like the Hayes' Code seem to suggest that gay sex is so pleasurable that even hearing about it will turn all the "good" boys and girls into debauched hedonists.
A descendant of the belief that anything fun is sinful, and the related view that sexual intercourse (for reproductive purposes only) is a duty that must be endured, I think. Gay people can't have kids so the only reason they have sex is because they enjoy it, and we can't have any of that, thank you very much.
See also: hatred and revulsion towards masturbation
@@hjt091 The revulsion towards masturbation isn't entirely wrong, it should be treated with caution as it's a vice like any other.
@@Shoxic666 dude no. Masturbating by all medical account is a great health benefit and really doesn't negativity impack your life at all. Sure theoretically it's possible to do it too much (mostly relating to time management and nothing else really), but to me it sounds like "oh but cleaning too much can also be bad". It happens but it wont be a problem for most people and considering b the signs that already exists comments like these aren't needed.
@@Sara-sn5gd Abstaining from masturbation comes with it's own health benefits, the benefits to doing it are very sparse but the psychological effects can be severe. Like any vice which isn't immediately harmful (pot, soft drinks etc) it should treated with caution and strict moderation.
From what I understand about the literature, the psychological effects (and probably any effects) from giving up masturbation seem to be purely place. A person who feels shame or guilt about fapping will feel better about themselves if they give up the thing that makes them feel bad.
As far as dangers go, if you fap so much that you can’t do work/chores or do it so roughly that you injure yourself repeatedly, THEN you have a problem. But it’s not gonna affect your liver or circulation or brain like pot or alcohol. Cranking one out four times a day starting from when you are twelve is not gonna fuck you up in the long run like doing the same with beers or joints.
The benefits are mostly anecdotal and, by actual medical reviews, placebo. Testosterone increase is only temporary, so have to keep fapping for that. Not sure what it does for women, but most of NoFap is aimed at straight guys anyway.
Interestingly, participants of a study that presented them regularly with hardcore porn described a lot of the same mental and social benefits like nofappers describe when giving up masturbation. So depending on your psychology, doing that might actually be about as good for you as giving up masturbating.
All in all, the studies into giving up masturbation have not proven actual benefits. It’s probably not bad for your health, but you are not gonna be more youthful or more successful or live statistically longer than fappers.
"I don't mind that they're terrible, I just don't want them terrible around me."
I see what you did there. Nice.
This!!!!
@@alexanderwsm6296 yknow what, that's a fair point. Everything changes and stays the same.
@@witchBoi_Connor Twitter-ites are the PIs of Oscar Wilde’s day-digging up explicitly private information, promptly displaying it all publicly without the consent of those involved, and then somehow having the audacity to call it “PUBLIC indecency.”
Just the Hades line "He's a guy" when Meg is talking about how she thinks Hercules is a good guy. That sent me more than anything.
Ironically Hades in Greek Mythology is one of the few heterosexual Gods of Olympus; Ares, Apollo, Aphrodite, Dionysus and Poseidon are Bisexual, Hestia and Artemis are Asexual, Athena is Aromatic so that leaves Zuse, Hera, Demeter and Hephaestus as straight.
@@malachiroberts6198 Zeus literally stole a cute boy prince to be his cup bearer. Look up Ganymede :)
@@darcylentz6412 Oh shit, I forgot about him! I think Artemis has had romantic relationships with women too but not sexual. Basically the old joke holds true: "The Greeks invented the Threesome, The Roman's made it better by adding Women"
@@malachiroberts6198 Zeus isn't straight or bi. Zeus is pan--- not pansexual just a pandemic.
@@malachiroberts6198 Artemis had no romantic relations with anyone, male or female. her being friends with orion is the closest she ever got to a relationship
...Now I have a stronger urge than ever to write a D&D module where one of the villain's top lieutenants is gossiped about and vilified for "unnatural traits", "unrighteous behaviors", and pretty much all the "usual" phrases... and when the party finally encounters the guy, he's left-handed. Just left-handed. :P
Yo I love it
Does he have 6 fingers?
@@skycastrum5803 I don't think you can count on that...
@@BrazenBard under appreciated
Love it
Fun fact:
In the brazilian Dub of the Lion King, whilst Scar is getting jumped on by the Hyenas, he says "Eu não DISSE Aquilo! (I didn't SAY that)", but the audio got mixed HORRIBLY, and with the music, sound effects of the fire, the Hyenas laughing,the fact that he said nothing whilst he was getting attacked and the emphasis on "Disse A-(Say Tha-)" made people hear various different things
Some people heard "EU NÃO FIZ CHAPINHA(I DIDN'T STRAIGHTEN MY HAIR)"
While some others heard "EU SOU BICHA(I'M GAY)"
Obviously, nobody would genuinely believe that this was a written line, by Disney or the dubbing team. But it became sort of a meme, because the first few times you watch it, there's goddamn fire cracking sound effects that completely muffle the line, so a lot of people have a hard time hearing it (Including a crazy pastor who went on a Rant about why Disney is unholy)
So in some people's memories, Scar's last words were him coming out
This is beautiful
Definitivamente um momento bostil...
Maybe he believed him being gay would save him from being killed. XD
So long gay bowser part 2
So it’s the equivalent of good bye-bye gay Bowser
“Achilles and his *friend* Patroclus”
“Sappho and her gal pal” it hurts me. It really hurts
I STRONGLY DISAGREE! Being as famous as I am on TH-cam, I know that it gets hard to read every comment I get. I try my best, but I am just so famous, that I can't do it much longer. Sorry, dear ade
I actually visited an Ancient Greek exhibit recently. It was a really nice that they recognised Achilles and Patroclus as a couple. We’ve come a long way.
Ah yes,
✨💖E💐R💞A🌙S💫U🌸R🌟E💝☀️
And they we’re roommates!
@@bonzupippinpaddleoxacoppil484 Oh my god they were roommates
I always wondered what "natural law" meant, and after pursuing a history degree I found out that it basically means whatever the hell the speaker wants it to mean.
Thomas Aquinas has probably the best definitive definition. Though, knowing how the US has historically treated Catholicism does make that a bit too convoluted.
Is natural law not physics n shit
Natural law is that gravity is a thing.
Natural Law is any law of mathematics pertaining to the natural number, e, also known as 2.71828 with a bunch more numbers attached.
@@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic563 Ehm... Your brain. It works on electric impulses. Also certain electric eels.
Ups sorry... Started writing before finishing to read your post.
Don't forget though: being a confirmed bachelor gives you a +10% damage boost against other men
Where's my platinum chip
@@fiendish9474 i ate it
i was hungy
amusingly it's actually more practical to be gay in fallout new vegas since most generic human combatants tend to be male
@@dumpstercast-refuseradio8429 amazing
@@dumpstercast-refuseradio8429 you know you can take both perks and do +10% damage to both genders AND be a bi icon
“You’ve been asked many times if your bi but you never actually answered”
“Yes I have, I said I am bi”
“And once again, you haven’t answered”
I feel like there is a pun in that, but I can't tell where
@@Theoriginalautismer7790 "bi", "bye"
@@Pumpkin7269 oh
@@Pumpkin7269 Thank you
My personal favorite example is Alexander Sokolov, the famous “Cavalry Maiden” who spent their entire life presenting male, fighting for Russia in the Napoleonic Wars like some kind of way cooler, trans Mulan. In his youth, he managed to train a pissed off horse that people considered unbreakable, and rode that horse in battle as part of Russia’s cavalry troops. When he wrote his autobiography, he wanted to publish it under his male name but was pressured into using their birth name by oblivious editors who assumed they were just unconfident. Even after they became too well known as a Russian hero to not be recognized, Sokolov continued to dress and present as male for the rest of his life. In Russia’s current, immensely queerphobic culture, Sokolov stands out as a cultural hero that trans people can look up to.
That's an amazing story, i'm glad he didn't give up on being himself. Really is a good example
Solokov is truly amazing
Being so badass that even your society that is anti-lgbt has to admit your awesomeness
Any online articles where I can read about him? Google isn't being very helpful.
I'm russian and I didn't know about this. What a hero
Gotta love how “white slavery is too evil to be depicted” rule is right above the “no interracial relationships” rule. Talk about obliviousness.
Yeah seems a little specific. Did someone try to make a movie with it and they just refused?
*Laughs in Barbary Coast*
Beeecause everyone who's biracial has an ancestor that was necessarily owned by another? I hope that's not what you're suggesting.
@@IggyTthunders that's not what they're saying, nobody suggests "everyone", for starters. You could use some extra reading comprehension classes.
@@IggyTthunders what are you even talking abt
First moment after getting a shoutout: Holy shit YAAAAYY!
Second moment: Oh fuck, was that video any good? Did I say anything stupid in it?!
Congrats on the shoutout! Although maybe she should've shouted out your Rebecca video, which talks about the Hays Code more?
You got a shoutout for that specific video, that should be a pretty good sign that it was good
It’s ok Dom we love you!!
I remember that video being pretty good, dude!
I remember that video. And to answer your question yes, yes it was in fact good. And no I don't remember you saying anything considerably dumb.
About Disney villains, I feel Frollo should be pointed out as being very much the opposite. If anything, he represents society's repression by kicking it into overdrive. His perfectly heterosexual attraction to Esmerelda scares him because of the slightest impropriety of it.
It's literally what his villain song is all about.
Yeah, he’s pretty unique in that his villainy is genuinely kinda compelling. As horrible as he is, in a way he’s just as much a victim of his zealotry as the people he persecuted. There might have been a time in his life when he was a legitimately good person, but his faith and his inability to see the world as anything other than black & white have long since turned him into a monster who can’t comprehend an alternative.
A pretty drastic alternative to every other Disney villain, who are all pure evil and enjoying every minute of it.
This is something that confuses me about the whole queer-coding argument. When I see it get applied to characters like Frollo I question it because on the one hand I can see that Frollo's character design has some effeminate features if you compare him to the design of Lady Tremaine, but his character is pretty explicitly lusting after a woman, and in his case, this heterosexual attraction is portrayed in a very negative light. So even if he Frollo has a few minor effeminate details, can he really be queer coded if he is explicitly heterosexual?
I think this is an interesting pairing with the other explicitly heterosexual villain, Gaston, who still has some aspects of queer coding like vanity and the inability to recognize love beyond the physical, but reads more like a warning against ignorance in general. Also, I would definitely read a paper about how Frollo is a representation of the society that created the coded Disney villains of the past, and how leaning too far into heteronormativity and the appearance of perfection can be more damaging than just, letting people live their lives.
@@Xalerdane Highly recommend looking into the Hunchback of Notre Dame musical. They change Frollo pretty substantially (and more in line with Hugo's original book) by making him the pious arch-deacon. In it, he has a brother who leaves Notre Dame to marry a gypsy and Quasi is his child. On his deathbed he asks Frollo to raise Quasi and Frollo agrees, believing that by isolating and teaching Quasi, he can "protect" him and find redemption for failing to save his brother.
Notably Frollo's story ends the same way - he becomes entranced by Esmerelda but can't accept this flaw in his own self image and he rallies a mob to catch and execute her. In the end, Esmerelda ends up dying from smoke inhalation and Quasi throws Frollo from the cathedral roof - citing Frollo's teachings that "the wicked must not go unpunished" and that despite Frollo's protective and infantilizing attitude towards him "he is VERY strong".
Both versions are good, but I think the play does a better job shifting Frollo into a tragic figure and highlighting that his worst traits (self righteousness and arrogance) are really virtues that we can see in ourselves just taken to an extreme.
Okay, so Frollo's het-coded, lol!
I feel like this trope has come full circle:
People used to queer code villains because it was the only way to portray them
Now people queer code villains because they're popular.
A standard macho villain? Meh. A villain who loves musical theater? Now THAT we can make bank off of!
Heck people often find non flamboyant villains boring. Like look at Jafar then look at the villain from frozen. Now tell me 1 do you even remember his name and 2 wether it was the prince or the dad they were just boring. The prince wanted to marry then kill to get the thrown yet Jafar is more loved and the father was killed off and only the catalist for Elsa to have her nervous freak out because he made her scared of her power (hence why he's more remembered then the actual villain)
@@ryuudraco592
I love me a villain who isn't flamboyant cuz I want writers to use different tropes case in point Omni man
@@augustuzmoon3814 I can respect that. After all there are great non flamboyant villains, but my personal tastes are the villains that are over the top or flamboyant like joker or freeza. But there's non flamboyant/gay coded villains I like, light and two face are also great villains in my mind
Also villains just by their nature get to be more interesting, so you can add a lot of depth you couldn't with a hero.
@@augustuzmoon3814 I agree, branching out and trying out new things with your villains is vitally important
"Look, I know some people are terrible alright, I don't mind. I just need them to not be terrible around me, OK!"
This is my new favourite quote and should be available on a t-shirt.
Same. I actually intend to say it to the next person who suggests that gay people should be able to have state approved monogamous relationships, they "just think they should call it something other than marriage". Or any of the other segregated bullshit bigots like to say.
@@DaveTpletsch can you explain the quote to me? Is it that the mindset of some people is that lgbt+ people can exist just away from everyone else? Am i reading this correctly?
@@bruh-hq9fc Something like that. I suppose I don't hear that one specifically much anymore, but I live in a VERY conservative state, and it's something I hear parroted all the time any time LGBT+ marriage rights come up for debate. Basically it means what it says. Many conservatives I know, or knew, who like to think they're not bigots will say things like "marriage is between a man and a woman" and suggest that since queer people can't have babies with their partners in the traditional way, that they should have different names for the kinds of families they form, including marriage. They'll say they're fine with homosexual partnerships as long as it's not called marriage. I'm ashamed to say that I've said the line I quoted above a couple times myself growing up, before I understood that I myself was bi, or was allowed the chance to even consider the LGBTQIA+ side of the argument. Conservative indoctrination starts very young after all. I've heard that statement so many times I just assumed it was a common argument from conservative people, sort of a "they can have the same thing, just call it something different" attitude. Maybe it's a unique experience for me though. TLDR: conservative people I know are OK with LGBTQIA+ relationships as long as all our labels are kept separate.
@@DaveTpletsch i mean that is literally the 'normal' reaction to something some people dont understand. Thanks for the insight
It's a little long to fit on a shirt and keep legible. Maybe something shorter like 'I know some people suck, just don't suck around me'?
This could also be a sub-point of why "sympathetic/tragic" villain has also been on the rise. When so many villain characters written as intended villains come off as interesting and relatable to an audience both queer and not queer (almost like the idea of confidently being yourself is universally relatable and desired), newer writers take that aspect in as well and tend to write antagonists as 3 dimensional, even if not expressedly queer coded. But I wouldn't complain as the trope of "there's a person inside everyone, even your enemies" is pretty positive and ironically a good modern moral to aspire to.
It is. Even though it would also be nice to acknowledge it and have the villain be an outright villain that will not become good. At the very least, you could make them tragic because you could get a glimpse on what they could be, yet they refuse to change.
Looks, I don’t know why, maybe it’s just been a day, but that last part is making me tear up
Gosh
Hm
It’s nice
That is likely a part of it, but the message of humanizing enemies is a really old concept. And I think the "3 dimensional villain" came from the Realism movement, with authors actively rejecting the concept of the "pure evil villain."
@@marykateharmon I was honestly expecting/hoping for something like this when watching Maleficent; a story that goes in parallel with the original animated film, but fleshes Maleficent out as a character and gives us an idea as to what makes her tick.
In hindsight it was very naive of me to give Disney that much credit and I honestly don't think we'll ever get a villain from them, that we can fully understand and/or sympathize, while also recognizing what they do as blatantly evil. A nuanced and well reasoned human evil is uncomfortable, after all.
@@marykateharmon This redemption thing also brushes up against some backwards attitudes towards abuse victims and the healing process with some going on about how to heal, you have to forgive abusers or because they're family so they have to be forgiven.
The downside is that the majority of shows that do it do it rushed with the villain either being the big threat instead of a minion and the redemption being more about other people being told to trust them instead of the villain ding any of the work. Or its skipped over. Case in point being the diamonds from Steven Universe, Legend of Korra's meditation scene and Draxum from Rise of the TMNT. These villains are also usually the most deplorable.
If you want nuance, I'd check Higurashi Gou for how they handle Teppei. He comes to his own realisations, visibly shows how he's trying to change his ways and tries to amend things with Satoko; the niece he abused. Here's the thing though; the show visibly shows that there's too much water under the bridge for everything to heal or be forgiven and Teppei understands that, leaving it open ended.
'Once again the power of clean living and racial purity saves the day'
'Hisss'
'Just kiss already'
Never change, Red.
My favorite queer-coded villain has to be James from Team Rocket. And the coding definitely helps his character. His flamboyance, over-the-top attitude, hybrid of complex lover/gay best friend relationship with Jessie, and general snark make him a very compelling villain
He was held back IMO by Jesse's overly aggressive and demeaning attitudes.
I’m in love with the fact that not only does James crossdress, but Jessie sometimes does as well. I think having them both do it reinforces the act as a bold expression rather than just singling out James for sometimes making himself look like a girl (which he totally rocks though).
Of course his best costume will always be the mighty flaming Moltres!
@@emblemblade9245 james that one episode: I'M WEARING TIGHTS INSTEAD OF PANTS :D !
They're pretty much the platonic ideal of queer people in an XX/XY relationship. Both of them are so flamboyantly not-straight and give a lot of suggestions that neither one of them is fully cis either, that even though we know in the manga that they marry and have a child, we know that they weren't straight-washed.
James is the nicest character in the whole anime
The “Strong hero vs smart villain” and queer-coded villains tropes combined to give us the classic Thor vs Loki dynamic
it also implies that gay people are inherently smarter which isn't accurate but i'll take it anyway
Honestly, Loki being gay would make his offspring in Norse mythology extremely funny
@@smallss7197 given that Loki is both a mom and a dad within mythology, I think he might be bi.
@@shadowshedinja6124 And trans, maybe?
@@omegabet3912 possibly Genderfluid, Loki's possibly had no issue flippibg through genders if needed, if we remove any "christianizations" who knows how more out there Loki actually was
When I heard Oscar Wilde was “accused of sleeping with his son” I did a spit take and almost slammed the cancel button before realizing it was the Marques of Queensburys son
Same. I was like, "he did WHAT?"
"By all accounts he was doing" And I was like "Where did is this written and why wasn't he charged for incest?" Before I realized it wasnt Oscar's Son
I......did not realize that until I read the comments. It was a SCARY few minutes, man
I was literally seconds away from typing in the comments "HE DID WHAT" before I found this.
to paraphrase a character from Brokeback Mountain: what he likes to do doesn't produce children.
The sheer amount of cultural context being condensed into a coherent narrative here is so fucking impressive...
8 more likes
The information density and clear wording that Red brings to the screen are like that perfect super-rich dessert that tastes like heaven, but you can also trust it not to make you sick. It is *just.* *Right.*
Red: "This video was sponsored by Campfire Blaze! Insert 'flaming' joke here."
Me: "Actually, I was gonna go for 'camp'."
Flamboyantly camp?
my favorite "flaming" joke for a character is in arrested development, where George describes his prison cell-mate T-Bone as a "flamer," making Michael think T-Bone is gay when actually he's just an arsonist
where,,,,are these characters,,,,from?
@@bobatea7608 arrested development! very good show
Yesss I’m obsessed with that show
The owl house at least I feel does a really good example on how to properly do a story that embraces queer Characters. Romance isn't the main part of the story but the romantic subplot between the main character and her bully turned friend turned love gets quiet a bit of spot light. What I especially like is how Dana terrace the creator goes out of her way to make being queer the norm. If two girls or two boys want to get together just as likely to happen as a boy and a girl. And we actually got a pretty big non binary character who is a love interest for one of our main protagonists. I would definitely recommend checking it out.
I don’t think amity ever really bullied luz, she didn’t get much time to before the library episode
Props to Dana for actually writing a non-binary character who is not a shape-shifter or something like that, just a regular person.
Also, poor Raine. I hope they are fine.
Owl House is best house
Its also a good example on why you should put your fucking kids on ridiline.
Also it is stastically improbable that you have an equal rep of all considering they make up less than 10 percent of all relationships.
and lets not forget the unfeeling villain who is evil because they “don’t feel or understand love”, because as we all know if you don’t want a partner then you are automatically voldemort
Voldemort an aroace icon?
I mean it could also be that they don’t feel platonic love
maybe they meant that the villain doesnt understand things like empathy
shit, incels get magic? I gotta regrow my virginity now
Idk about a partner, i think its a way tp show a lack of empathy. There is Gaara for example, fits the example you described perfectly, kills ppl casualy at an young age. Does not realy care about his famly, he loves himself and violence. Typical edgy boy, he even has a mental breakdown when he sees his enemy get saved:
So its used to describe how a character thinks, idk why you would feeld the need to project ur own sexuality on a fictional character, that is just kinda cringe. Try watching whatever show ur watching next time, insted of drifting into projection land.
"Boston Marriage" sounds like a great name for a band
The Boston Tea Marriage Party
@@mechamonkeymancityboat7785 Or Boston Marriage Tea Party
That’s just Boston but all the members of the band are gay
Technically there is a band called Boston. Great band, great music.
Boston Manor is close enough. banger music too
Meanwhile in a parallel universe: Trope Talk straight-coded villains
Or gay-coded heroes
God I wish we lived in that universe
already happens most villains in modern writing are blond blue eyed and German, rich and traditionally masculine. like that new movie with the rock in the jungle finding moon pedals.
Why do I want to see this
Why do I get the feeling that the villains are going to be bland a a popcorn bagel in that universe
"I just need them to not be terrible around me."
I feel this on such a fundamental level.
Dude, imagine how hard it would be to have a compelling protagonist under that code.
*cough* lake from infinity train is incredibly trans coded
@@gr3at.s4ge henry definitely meant the Hays Code lol
The unintended side effect of this trope is creating characters that some people loved way more than the actual heroes of the story.
Hey, people loved the fabulousness of it
Girl boss dragon witch > Lady that slept
@@starmaker75 yep love me a fabulous villain
@@Mossymushroomfrog18 God, I loved the dragon lady as a kid
Yeah. Though, I guess it’s not surprising that a culture that has an “assumed default” (straight white cis male) and enforced basically all heroes to be that default makes them incredibly boring.
Turing wasn't out like Wilde, but he was a strong man - he wasn't outed by someone else, a lover threatened to blackmail him, and Turing reported him to the police for that crime. He was a brave man who stood up for himself, even in the face of torture. He was a true icon and hero and just his existence as a proud, successful, likely autistic gay in that time is inspiring to me.
It's interesting, the divide between how different people remember Turing. If you ask anybody of around age 40-45 and above, they will usually say he was the man that broke the Enigma code and saved the war. If you ask anybody in their 30s or under, or any LGBT or neurodiverse people, we will most likely remember him as an autistic-likely gay icon who was brave, intelligent, and was murdered by the system for being different.
:)
@@ejewart1450 I'm 22 and if you say Turing i think computer genius. Then again I'm also an engineer and am indifferent to queer stuff, i just ask you don't change existing characters make good new characters.
Like James Bond is a sexy straight British man, he was based on a real person and is a cultural icon. If Hollywood tried to make a black female lesbian "James Bond" it wouldn't work because it isn't the character.
On the other hand Uhura, Agent J, Nick Fury and many more are iconic black roles that would be equally disrespectful to cast as white and gender flipped.
@@ejewart1450 he can be both! The younger generations probably found out most of what they know about him from The Imitation Game I know I did
@@voidify3 sorry, to clarify, he absolutrly was both and SHOULD be proudly remembered as both, I am merely observing that he TENDS to be viewed differently by different demographics
“Even suing the marquess of Queensbury for libel when he accused him of sleeping with his son. Which by all accounts he was.”
God, such an icon was never born again
I really hope this is irony but I can't tell anymore.
i had to do a double take on this comment because of reds' wording in the video xP so for anyone else wondering, oscar wilde was in a relationship with the son of the marquess of queensbury and they met when oscar was 37ish and alfred (the son of the marquess) was 21ish so. yeah dont worry everyone lol
I'm sorry the pronoun game is at work here. Who's son was he sleeping with?
@@professorpantherhardraad3921 he was sleeping with the son of John Sholto Douglas, 9th Marquess of Queensberry (the son in question was Lord Alfred Douglas)
@@mikegrapefruit4987 oh good i though he was sleeping with his OWN son.
6:50 I like how the first one says "nobody is perfect" and the moment he says that you can see the others facial expression change to being very intrigued. Both are bi and its honestly very funny to see that in a old movie.
Animated Maleficent is way superior to live action Maleficent. Cursing a baby to die because you weren’t invited to a christening is an iconic level of pettiness.
Yeaahh, Maleficent was one villain that really should have stayed pure villain.
Meanwhile Hades got invited and still tried to kill the baby!
When you’re an evil fairy, you don’t have to justify yourself to anybody!
"Queer-Coded Villain" is the most fabulous character you've drawn on this channel, and I will fight anyone who disagrees.
Also, as a pansexual person, it pains me to say that you almost HAVE to portray bi and pan people as highly promiscuous or many people will never believe that they're actually bi or pan. If they're primarily shown with partners of one gender, then people will assume or even insist that the times they're shown with partners(or even just A partner) of the other gender are just outliers and don't count. I've even had an actual person tell me "You can't like both, just pick one and stick to it." Like, they didn't care if I was gay or straight, I just wasn't allowed to be pan.
Sounds like "You can't like vanilla AND chocolate, just pick one and never ever ever try anything else ever."
@@TheRedAzuki Yeah, or "you can't like Coke AND Pepsi" or "you can't like Country AND Rock". Why are we as a species so obsessed with boiling everything down to two options and then picking a side?
@@alphaxtitania5597 Okay, I don't care if you like being with men and women, but if you drink Pepsi we CANNOT be friends.
@@alphaxtitania5597 you can't like "rock AND roll, just like rock or roll." 😂
@@alphaxtitania5597 That is the sad state of the politics in my country,there's two main candidates who are absolute corrupt and egocentric sh1t who gonna wreack the country even more than it already is wreacked,but people are more interested in fighting anyone who don't vote for these two because they think the one they didn't vote will be worse than the one they chose.
I have to be honest the name "lavender wedding" sounds nice when you ignore what it actually means. Like a wedding with a lot of pretty flowers and everyone's dressed in purple.
...Now I want a _literal_ lavender wedding.
Like a Purple Wedding! Outside the Game of Thrones context, it sounds like a lovely affair, with many flowers and soothing colors.
That actually sounds pretty
That would make me sneeze so much but it would be worth it
Nowadays, thinking of the word without its context, it honestly sounds like something Gwyneth Palthrow would come up with. Lavender aromatherapy and color therapy and such, during a wedding to bless the couple with calm and prosperity or whatever.
Instead of me fearing the queer coded villain from the Lion King when I was seven, I asked my dad if I could change my name to Scar.
That’s what Scar did too.
Also his birth name was the Swahili word for ‘garbage’. While his brother got the word for ‘King’.
…Yeah.
@@Xalerdane wow..
talk about favouritism
@@baonkang5990Yeesh. No wonder he was jealous of Mufasa.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Disney’s Robin Hood. Prince John was a Queer-Coded Villain in the film. This is a stark contrast with the real life Prince John. While Prince John is often depicted as a villain in various Robin Hood stories (due to his ineptitude as a military leader and the tax increases he created to support Richards crusade) he wasn’t gay in life. In fact, he had two wives in his life (the second wife he had 5 kids with) and is rumored to have been a ladies man. In contrast, King Richard is often speculated to have been a gay man or bisexual, as he had a relationship with King Philip II. This is even shown through their animals and voices. Both John and Richard are lions, though John has no mane. If a male lion doesn’t have a mane, it means that they were neutered and can’t produce testosterone. Richard has an impressive mane indicating he has testosterone and wasn’t neutered. Even their voices give this away. John has a very effeminate voice while Richard has a deeper and more masculine voice. They actually reversed the sexualities of two historical figures for the film.
Very interesting
I think the Robin Hood story in general has given King Richard and Prince John “Historical Hero/Villain Upgrades” respectively. By all accounts the real-life Richard was much more interested in going off to fight the Crusades than actually ruling England (and wasn’t a very good king anyway), and Prince (later King) John’s problems with ruling England mostly stemmed from his mother bankrupting England to bail Richard out after the Archduke of Austria captured him.
Now THIS is some REALLY interesting stuff. :o
I didn't know the meaning of having a mane or not in lions, very interesting. I just disagree with Richard being gay. It was a belief which rose in the 60s because the historians misunderstood a paragraph in a chronicle reporting that Richard and Philip were so close that they ate from the same plate and slept together in the same bed. Actually they had just made an alliance against Richard's father and in the Middle Age a public act to show off the fact that you totally trusted your ally was sleeping in the same bed. Just to make an example, Edward IV, probably the most womanizer king of the English Middle Age, did the same thing after he had made a political alliance with a noble whose name I cannot remember. Also, Richard had an illegitimate son he recognized as his own.
Or one character is designed as small and weak and the other and strong and large to represent their personalities and not their sexualities.
Whenever queer baiting gets mentioned I always remember the recent Voltron series, and how they actively marketed their “gay character and his partner” for one of their seasons which ended up being a random guy in the background of one episode that the main character had 1-2 scenes with. They also killed off this love interest very quickly as to never have him be apart of the series moving forward.
As soon as she started that part I was like “you can just say voltron it’s ok”. Also queerbaiting with klance the literal entire show
@@boobailey4509 exactly !! it makes me so mad, klance could've been so good.
@@boobailey4509 Klance was never queerbaited….
I really love trope talk. In a completely pure, natural and socially accepted manner; which in no way compromises the economic viability of my endeavours and is left ambiguous if faced with any risk of controversy.
Blasphemy! Indecency! Shame on you!
I feel the "they're just good friends" excuse can be a very viable answer. Mainly speaking as someone who is very close to his few friends, the only real barrier between friendship and dating is the one you two agree on.
This is the problem with "coding." It is a viable answer, but thanks to the internet's insistence on coding and labeling, it doesn't sound like a viable answer anymore.
It may be the asexuality in me speaking, but i never really understood the "barrier" between platonic and romantic love some people seemed to have. For me, romantic love is and always will be a messy thing thats if anything a contiunation of platonic love and you cant really separate the two.
@@leobastian_ In a handful of my fanfics I use romantic tropes in a platonic context, inspired by another fan writer who did much the same thing, LuckyLadybug. LuckyLadybug's portrayal of Lector and Nesbitt of the Big Five is what I can think of off the top of my head. In LuckyLadybug's work, Nesbitt is openly aroace, something that he frequently discusses with other characters, and Lector hasn't quite nailed down what his orientation is but wonders if he's demiromantic in one particular story. They explicitly aren't together, just ride or die best friends, but their relationship is the main focus of quite a few stories LuckyLadybug wrote in a way I've never seen before in a non-romantic context. It's not just them, though. Bakura once saves Yami Bakura’s life through the power of true love - its just that that love is completely platonic. I frankly would love to see more focus on platonic relationships vs romantic ones.
Part of the reason I love Studio Ghibli films is that the love between two characters is much more platonic than romantic or physical, and the villains don't need an implied "it's purely physical" moral stance/inherent queer coding to stand in opposition to the protagonists
I was really conflicted watching Princess Mononoke as a kid because the lady of Iron Town was supposed to be a "bad guy" but I couldn't help feeling sympathetic for both her and the protagonists.
@@migzrub7114 I wouldn't exactly call her the villain of the story, that was more the monk, and the conflict in general. I mean, I don't like her, because in my view she's far too ruthless and power hungry. But she wasn't really the main antagonist. Ghibli films often feature antagonists who oppose the main characters in some way but aren't really the villain of the story, more of a secondary character who happens not to get along with the protagonists and is perhaps a bit lacking in the morals department. (Curtis, The Army in Castle in The Sky, The Witch of the Wastes).
@@zoro115-s6b
I think we can all agree though that Musca, from Castle in the Sky, was most definitely a villain. His whole goal was to use the Castle's technology to conquer the world.
@@zoro115-s6b I see that now but when I was a kid I was conditioned to see her as the "bad guy" because she wasn't on board with the protagonists plus it was my first Ghibli movie so I wasnt used to complex characters with their own goals and motivations.
@@kamikazelemming1552 Musca was the villain. But the Army wasn't really in alignment with Musca. He was just using them to get to Laputa, and never told them about the superweapon or his intentions with it. He then immediately turned on them, further showing that they were never on the same side. All they wanted to do was plunder all the treasure up there, which is exactly the same thing Dola and her gang wanted to do. I wouldn't classify them as any more villainous than the pirates really, they just got pulled into Musca's scheme by their greed.
"These characters are beloved! Except Gaston."
Ex-fucking-cuse you? No one is as loved as Gaston!
There's no man in town half as admired as him; he's everyone's favorite guy. Everyone's awed and inspired by him, and it's not very hard to see whyyyyyyy...
@@keineahnung8062 No ones!!
@@dabuff1319 Slick as Gaston. No one's quick as Gaston. No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston!
@@blahturretx7327 For there's no man in town half as manly! Perfect, a pure paragon!
B A R G E
I remember watching Sailor Moon and being incredibly moved by Zoisite's death scene. He and Kunzite were together in the anime and you could see how deeply in love with each other they were even though these guys were evil. Zoisite even asked Kunzite to give him a beautiful death, with Kunzite creating a world of flowers to be with him as he died. I think this example struck with me because the queer romance aspect made these two otherwise kind of generically evil dudes into tragic figures, especially since Kunzite would later die trying to avenge his boyfriend.
So...not only does it give us two villainous gay men but it killed both of them off? Man, why'd you have to ruin Sailor Moon for me..
@@ravenfrancis1476 To be fair, they also died in the manga and weren't in a relationship like in the anime. Anime!Kunzite and Zoisite were more fleshed out, their relationship being entirely genuine. Later on Sailor Neptune and Uranus show up and they're also a couple.
@@kingofthegundam7974 or if you're watching the Cloverway dub, they censored Neptune and Uranus's relationship by making them cousins. Yeah, that's so much better than having a lesbian couple. /s
@@ravenfrancis1476 There were other queer characters, but those two are especially notable for going with the "Tragic Ending" route. Also, it was the 90's. In Japan.
@@natesmodelsdoodles5403 Don't care, its still bad.
I don't identify as trans, but I do like to present very feminine sometimes depending on my mood, and growing up on Rocky Horror Picture Show is why I tend to wear crop tops and carry purses in blatant disregard of public opinion
That’s so cool, I wish I was brave enough to do that
@@doubleoof7907 well I will add what my much smaller friend likes to point out a lot, I take for granted the fact that I'm 6'6 and like 220 pounds and therefore not someone most people would choose to confront regardless. Idk tho I have a hard time seeing myself as any kind of intimidating, especially when I'm wearing cat ears and thigh high socks 😅
I’m a trans girl, but in case you don’t know about this, but the label of “genderfluid” might be worth looking into? I dunno if it’ll apply to you or not. Figuring yourself out is hard
@@positivelink6961 nah I'm like 26 and pretty comfortable with my gender identity, it's all the stuff around it that I'm still messing with xD
The reason people don't do those things is because one it would be freezing and two men pockets are big enough to fit everything in. So do what you like but it's less Christian Republican stares and more "thats very unpractical".
Adding on to “Some Like it Hot,” there’s an earlier comedic scene where the guy is cheerfully announcing his engagement to the rich man while his friend has to remind him that they’re both men.
Also, for favorite queer-coded villain, I’ll cheat and put actual queer villain Hannibal Lector from the TV series named after him. Mainly because while he fits most of the archetypes of a queer-coded villain (is somewhat flamboyant, has no shame about himself or his lifestyle, gets very touchy-feely with others and especially with the protagonist Will Graham, etc.), his actual queerness (specifically, his feelings for Will) is what humanizes him. There’s several times in the show that he does something that he normally wouldn’t because Will is involved. Case in point: despite considering rudeness a cause for death, Hannibal doesn’t go after Will no matter how much of a little shit he is.
Plus, the show followed the usual tropes of queerbaiting until season 3 where it went “actually, what you’re suspecting is correct! Murder husbands is a thing! Plus, we’re also throwing in murder wives!” Helps that Bryan Fuller is, himself, a gay man.
@Tin Watchman Yes.
God I love Hannibal, i need to finish watching it
I really need to finish hannibal-
To quote myself describing my dnd campaign, "If you only queer code your villians that's a problem, but if you queer code everyone then that's just hot." Thusly my dnd campaign became ambiguously bisexual
Isn't this just Jojo's Bizarre Adventure?
So, JoJo's bizarre adventure: dnd version?
“Thusly, my dnd campaign became ambiguously bisexual.”
Is the best way to end a story
There was nothing ambiguous about the bisexuality of my paladin of Sune, and I'll have it no other way. He wasn't actually *that* promiscuous, but god did he love to flirt. Being a champion of love, beauty, and music, is way more fun than a bog standard hero of justice or whatever.
It’s only hot because D&D is itself just a slice of your life. Can work fine for some games, but not exactly well rounded.
Yeah... I spoil jokes. For what it’s worth, I found it funny.
I'll be honest, the kid just smooshing a knockout and starscream toy together had me laugh my ass off, well done Red
Wait, what? Where? I just watched the video again after seeing this comment and not remembering it but I did not see it anywhere
@@Fivzk Around 10:15, they're looking at the TV going "I dont get it"
@@Fivzk Around 10:15, they're looking at the TV going "I dont get it"
@@Toastman30K oh so that’s what’s happening with the kid. I’ll remind myself next time to watch the video with glasses and in full screen lol, I was expecting a clear footage from a show or something, thanks
Edit: typo
This video reminds me of the moment I realized the friend I grew up with in high school was no longer the friend I had now. I had gone through a -lot- and he was the only one that really stuck with me despite doing so putting him on the radar for the monsters in the school. Fast forward to just recently. I was on short-term disability for mental health reasons, and decided to pick up a little game called Undertale that someone had gifted me through Steam.
I marathoned it in one day, getting the neutral and then true pacifist ending at 3AM in the morning, and it's one of the few games that I legitimately wish I could play again with fresh eyes. The themes of good and evil being a choice, the sly 4th wall breaks, DETERMINATION; all of it hit me at a time when I -needed- something good in my life. I don't exaggerate when I say it changed my life. It might have very well saved it.
So I started looking things up about Undertale. Found music, found art, found stories. It was amazing, and to be honest a little disquieting at the same time. I had done some writing myself and thought I was clever with it, and the way that Undertake doesn't tell you but -show- you things made me feel like a third grader writing a DBZ fanfic.
I went to talk about the game with my best friend, and he shut me down cold. Said he wasn't interested because Undertale pushed an agenda. "What, don't be an asshole?" I remember blurting out before I could stop myself. "The gay agenda," he replied, annoyed. I was speechless. This was a guy that had stuck with me all throughout high school while being called every gay slur imaginable. This was a guy who could have saved himself a -lot- of pain by doing the same when everyone laughed and pointed.
And he's refusing to even talk about something that had such a positive effect on my life because two non-human female characters have a crush and kissed. (I suppose the two burly guards might count too but I almost forgot about them until just now). I wish I had something clever, or profound to say to him at that time. Or to comment about how disappointed I was in him for holding such a view. But I stayed silent.
bless u, u sound like a great person, keep living your life pal
That's rough, buddy.
Meme aside, that must've hurt incredibly much. I mean, I personally don't like Undertale for its gameplay, but I heard that the story is widely acclaimed as a masterpiece. And that Sans is pretty dope. I could think about several other things that would "push the gay agenda" a lot more than Undertale. The game is full of greatly written characters, some of which may happen to not be straight.
I hope that he either turns around and you two reconcile, because it is obvious how important he is to you and that you care, and I'm sure that he cares about you, too. Otherwise he wouldn't have sticked with you. Maybe you could try to talk it out? Sit down with a cup of tea, or soda, or whatever you like to drink, and talk about it calmly. Listen to each other's points of view.
Also, I'm almost certain you have found it through your research, but if not, you will most likely also like Deltarune. It's free on Steam, I think, and supposedly very good. A dear friend of mine talked about it like you just talked about Undertale.
To conclude, I wish you just the best in your future. Whether that includes your friend or not.
Oof my condolences friend.
Perhaps there’s more issues to discuss with your friend?
I’m not saying what they did was okay, by any stretch. That was incredible insensitive of them
But perhaps there is some resentment from such homophobic treatment they received you mentioned that should be discussed and sorted through. Gently, mind. I once held very toxic views without realising it, even as I advocated for the LGBT+ community. I shut down hard whenever my biases were criticised. Mostly because such criticism was often rather harsh and confrontational. In hindsight I can understand why that was. But to defuse emotional responses is often a better strategy. At least some of the time.
But I’m just some jackass on the internet. Just offering an observation.
Keep well and keep safe. And know there’s always the Undertale fan community to discuss your love of it with. Hopefully you find more acceptance there
I have much the same relationship with Undertale, and it's heartbreaking that he would write off such a beautiful game because of homophobia. I hope he's open to understanding how messed up that is, and that your relationship can be repaired 💙💙💙
Prejudice and xenophobia can infect otherwise good people. We all have our blind spots. I encourage you to ask questions and challenge his assumptions. What is "the gay agenda" to him, and why is it a problem? Don't make it into a confrontation--simply explain that for you, the inclusion of a same-sex couple enhances, or at least doesn't detract, from the game's quality and messaging. That he understands the effects of bullying and harassment should pave the way for an epiphany.
People are going to sympathize with a character who can confidently be who they are, gay or not, almost regardless of what their other character traits are. So if you make all of your villains gay, people aren't going to not sympathize with your gay characters because they're villains, they're going to sympathize with your villains because they're gay. Which, ironically, is the exact opposite of what the Hayes Code was trying to accomplish.
Nice
The key to writing a good villain is to give them CONFIDENCE, villains shouldn't doubt who they are, they know who they are, damn anyone who says otherwise.
Gay isn't really the factor people like them it is because they are confident and really absolutely love being evil. Take for example sheev palpatine who loves every damn second of being evil and only cares about himself and tools he can use
Honestly, I'm a straight guy but have always admired how these villains didn't take shit usually. Maleficent was slighted, Ursala was banished instead of utilized, Scar was mistreated, and the ones that didn't have anything happen to them still made some sense like Shan-yu. Shan-yu is often accused of not being well characterized or deep but looking at the fact he is the leader of a Hun horde and stated the wall was "a challenge to his strength" and his response was "well, I'm going to play his little game" kind of indicates that China itself might have been somewhat hostile or at the very least the created an obstacle for his people keeping them from resources they needed. His followers were expert trackers, capable of detecting horse hair and black pine needles to deduce an Imperial army was up at this mountain pass. Shan-yu was a conqueror likely by necessity. Most men would fuck off after losing their army, so he likely kept going because he needed to come back to the families of his horde with something to show for the losses and maybe even unite the tribes to the North/maintain it.
He may not have been gay, wasn't QCoded but he certainly respected Mulan regardless of her sex when her own nation didn't do that. She wasn't "some girl" she was "the soldier from the Mountains." If he was a bigot, he would have been furious about losing to a woman. Instead, he was only furious about losing. He even cast Shang aside when he initially blamed him for his loss, but went for Mulan because he knew she was the one who bested him, not the men. And hes bland compared to the QC villains who were fun, had power and felt free.
@@ajohnymous5699 I don't see any queercoding in Shan-Yu, not enough screen time outside fights. Also the big difference is Mongols (who the huns really are in the film) were far more progressive than China. Ancient China probably ranks near the top for the horrible treatment of women, few civilizations have ever taken female mutilation to the same level as foot binding. Mongols, in contrast, as a more nomadic group women held much higher station (males were too busy herding horses or fighting to administer the day to day so women gained more influence), and as such a skilled warrior women like Mulan is totally within Shan Yus expectation while a woman of high birth like Mulan that knows more than being polite and cranking out children (Prostitutes are where men were supposed to find intellectual/cultural stimulation) as a shame.
I appreciate your clear concise description of these tropes and why they are viewed the way they are. Too often when seeking answers about this kind of thing it devolves into an attack of the people that write stories with these tropes. You manage to acknowledge the damage these tropes cause while remaining focused on the topic at hand, which is EXACTLY what get people to understand perspectives like this that normally wouldn’t. Your doing good work red!!!!
“In the final scene of the movie, one of the musicians exasperatedly reveals to his smitten would-be-suitor that he’s a guy, in which the man replies “Well, nobody’s perfect.”
I need to watch this movie ASAP XD
It's a pretty funny movie, though fair warning, they objectify the hell out of Marylin Monroe in it.
@@kirstenpaff8946 duly noted. Thanks
Watched it for a film class. Hilarious.
There's also a *FABULOUS* Cary Grant impersonation by one of the leads.
Pan icon. PAN ICON!
As someone who ends up writing a lot of queer non-white characters, I try to hold myself to a rule: “for every queer, non-white, neurodivergent, or GNC antagonist, there must be an equivalent protagonist.”
One of my villains is extremely trans coded and flamboyant, but their nemesis is equally trans-coded. I have a few colored villains, but almost all of my protagonists are POC… because I’m a queer poc, and end up writing people I can relate to, but also because diversity needs to be portrayed as a good thing, not a bad thing. It’s not some crazy agenda… it’s just “if my only diverse character is evil, what am I suggesting?”
Thank you. I also hold myself in the same standard. There a story I’m working on where I have several characters who are lesbian and gay where the villain is gay and actually likes the hero and that’s his main motivation. Heck the hero is openly bi and actually returns some of the villains feelings before discovering how evil they are. It’s cool to know I’m not the only person out there with this idea. Heck I love it when I see parts of myself in a marvelously written villain especially when the hero has the same characteristic and I’d hate to see the LGBTQ+ community lose that due to this trope which honestly feels on par with the white savior trope in terms of implicit bigotry
it's a good rule. A rule I have for myself is that I have to do my utmost to present any character in a group, especially a marginalized group, I'm not a part of well. No matter if they are good or evil, I just have to do it in a way that is respectful, well researched, and well again respectful. Doesn't matter if I never intend the project to see the light of day, I just want to make sure I do a good job.
Why is the skin relevant ?
I figure I'm depicting individuals, not a quota.
Don't worry about it too much, I'd say. It's just that thing where living all their lives with privilege makes people see fairness as discrimination or hostility.
...I am seriously amazed that you managed to talk abour queer-coded villains for 15 minutes without mentioning Him from Powerpuff Girls even once.
It's not like Him was a satire/parody of the concept.
dude ended being the scariest cartoon villain of all time. O_O
Oh god i just rmb him. Somehow he still scariest villain in PFG and Snafu PFG/Grim Tales
Honestly, he's one of my favourite villain, and I don't even know he's queer coded
Him was my first introduction to queer individuals. Honestly it made him interesting. The Scarlett was the devil motifs or that he usually gave the girls a run for their money. And he also didn't give a damn
My favourite part about this is that these "negative" traits end up making the characters way more charismatic than the characters that we're supposed to be rooting for.
Ruined 69 likes, also absolutely yes
Idk its a person to person thing, i like homelander for example, a lott of ppl hate him, he is ment to be hated. What i see with the character is is wasted potential, a superhuman who is put in the hands of a greedy massive company, raised by ppl with no morals. He was thout how to act like a hero, never how to be one, so when he tries to save ppl for real, he makes the sitoation worse. But this is mostly me projecting, seeing something that might not be there
Just like ppl who project their sexuality on characters. Most of the time its, this guy looked at this guy so they are gay.
@@niropaxum958 No, they know that the villain is the bad guy, they just happen to be more fun to watch because of their more interesting personality. They root for the villain because that means more screen time for the most fun character. A key thing to remember is that rooting for a character doesn't necessarily mean identifying with the character or agreeing with them.
Tbf, that's kinda the point in some cases. Characters like Gaston have the people on their side typically, so it makes sense that they have intense charisma to back that up.
@@lukebytes5366 Gaston has people on his side because he's the good guy, trying to save a victim of abduction while also being a massive chad.
So, basically the Haze-Code put everything that can be potentially interesting about character, such as moral ambiguity, being faced with obstacles constructed by society, "character flavour", dark edgy backgrounds, violence, and much more, on the villain...
No wonder people always loved the villains so much more :) wonder if anyone would have anticipated that.
For all their railing against Commie propaganda, the Hays Code basically wanted all films to uphold a moral standard the Hays office decreed was good.
This is why cancel culture needs to hit the road: it's leading to the same kind of self-censorship of media, lest one portrayal or casting choice rile up an angry invisible mob. Sad part is, also like the Hays Code, cancel culture's power only comes from a studio's willingness to obey.
@@1krani What you are saying has nothing to do with my comment at all.
@@IamJustaSimpleMan
You said that the Hays Code sand-blasted all the most interesting bits out of film. I'm saying it's ironic how they were doing this while the American public hated communists, both foreign and domestic, in part for doing the same thing with THEIR films.
@@1krani No, Im not saying the Hayse Code blasted the interesting parts out of the film, I said it concentrated them, despite its contrasting intention, in the bad guys, making them accidentally more interesting then the heroes.
How you are making the connection to first so called cancel culture and now commounists from my comment, is beyond me.
@@IamJustaSimpleMan
I'm a student of history, so I'm appraised of what was going on behind the scenes in the Golden Age of Hollywood. It heavily involved communists, who went on to invent cancel culture, which is essentially what the Hays Code amounted to for all the power it didn't wield. Though, back in the day, its first name was "struggle session".
My first Playthrough of Fallout New Vegas, I took the perk "Confirmed Bachelor" - Only later did I realize this was a 50's Euphemism for Gay, but upon learning this knowledge, reveled in the knowledge that I was playing a gay cowboy. Yeehaw!
"This is less of a behavioral queer stereotype and more tied into the actual queer experience of feeling fundamentally separated from the concept of a fairy-tale love story happy ending."
... BIG oof.
Maybe we all need to start writing more fairy tales centered around non-straight love stories?
@@InventorZahran That would definitely help!
I mean, statistics don't lie- that fairy tale ending is rare enough with straight couples to begin with, so...
@@InventorZahran As long as it includes any character (good guys included; you can just go "fairy tale BS" to bring them back, like in "The Two Brothers" where one of the main characters dies TWICE IN A ROW) dying in some way and/or something horrific happening to anyone at all (Ex: villain dies by being thrown into a barrel full of nails and drowning). The original fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm were pretty dark.
@@fatimazafar4200 If anything, there are more than enough stories that contain romance; it's probably more difficult to find one that doesn't. Ultimately, write whatever resonates most strongly with you. As readers, we can tell when an author is being true to themselves, and it makes the written work much better!
I know this probably won’t be seen, but whenever I watch these videos, there are always several moments where I think “oooh, that’s an idea that would be interesting to write!” This video, however, hit different in a good way. I’ve had this idea for a series for a while now that I’ve been having difficulty planning/creating. The things you spoke about in this video gave me some ideas about the theme and how to set up the world and create the characters. So thank you for the help!
Nice! What are you making? May I see?
@@VitaNewbo It’s an alternate earth fantasy setting, though it’s still in very early development. It may be a long while before there is anything worth seeing at this point.
You know what my favorite trope is?a villain with a love interest. but not a love interest that redeems them. No I want a love interest that is their partner in crime and adding a whole bunch of gay just makes it even better.
Gay Bonnie and Clyde.
Sylas and Delilah Briarwood from The Legend of Vox Machina are a couple like this, they’re so delightfully evil and in love with each other it’s ridiculous
Harley and Ivy
Lord Boxman and Professor Venomous from Ok Ko. I think it was implied in the finale.
100% On board with "Be gay do crimes!" pairings.
“creators killed their gay characters to make sure they don’t get canceled”
vivziepop:
“thanks goddess they’re all dead”
I love that Blitz is canon Pan but not a total slut and even has intimacy issues. We stan
The imps, succubi, and Goetian demons aren't dead, nor is Charlie.
Isn't there some final death on that show that some special angel weapon can kill them for real?
Lmao amazing
@@rurihime4965 yes
I saw Some Like It Hot in the early 90s when I was around 11. To this day, it is one of my favorite movies ever. I find it surprising that they were able to get the trans plot like through the censors. But I also will always wonder how they got Marilyn Monroe’s dress (if you’ve seen the movie, you know which one) through censors. Even today, that dress would be a scandalous dress. An absolutely fabulous dress, but scandalous nonetheless.
Maybe they were too busy looking at Merlin Monroe to notice? XD
(Edit: I got highlighted? Thank you! :D)
They WEREN'T able to get it through the censors. Some Like It Hot was such a turning point for the Hays Code because it became a commercial hit despite not getting their stamp of approval
I saw it in a film & fiction class way back in high school, and the entire movie builds up to that one joke so effectively that I think it's more accurate to say the entire movie is just the one joke, with the whole thing building up to that single punchline at the very end. It was a good thing it was my last class of the day, because I was laughing all the way home. It may not be my all time favorite, but it is absolutely in my top comedy list, and quite possibly the hardest I've laughed at any one joke in my life.
@@StubbeA And it wasn't just a commercial hit. It received several major Oscar nominations, and won one. That the "Hollywood elite" embraced it was an even bigger blow to the Hays code than its box office success.
Am I the only one who tells myself stories about the Brown and Lemmon’s characters’ happy life together? Is that a genre?
I never noticed the way that Disney villains tend to disparage the heterosexual romance and what it stands for! That's such an interesting connection.
I remember when the Harley Quinn animated series was still in its second season a lot of people were worried the show was going to queerbait them. Thankfully the show actually took that romance plot pretty seriously and while I know some have issues with the cheating plotpoint (I cut a little slack since they were vey drunk when it happened (still bad but less actively malicious than if it'd happened while they were sober)) I actually quite like how the love triangle story and Harley and Ivy's respective personal issues were handled. I'm really looking forward to season 3.
Honestly, I thought the whole romance with kite man was more displeasant than the cheating part. I just really didn't like Kite man, and it was so obvious Ivy and Harley were gonna be together it was either LGBT baiting, or just a waste of time. And I hate both in media XD
I didn't really like season 2 of Harley Quinn because it started being less and less about Harley Quinn and the gang being villains. I mean sure, there was the whole plot about taking over the gangs and getting revenge for being frozen, but it felt like the focus was on the characters's romantic drama. It felt more like a tv sitcom (or drama, if the focus was the romance) about people who happened to be villains than villains doing villain stuff (like robbing banks, maniacal laughters, giving longwinded speeches, antagonizing the good guys) and succeeding. They were put into situations that were too domestic.
Also why I don't like the Looney Tunes show. That one was DEFINITELY too much of a sitcom. Bugs Bunny shouldn't worry about stuff like rent, or relationships, noisy neighbors; she should be in the woods antagonizing Elmer Fudd! Daffy Duck shouldn't be worrying about getting a job and only be a jerk 24/7 (also I feel like they put too much season 3 Duck Dodgers into his characterization); he should be in a pond being insane and a better Bugs Bunny (that's subjective on my part). What I'm trying to say, is that they act too much like different people
They're planning on a 3rd season?
Also, people don't do things they're entirely opposed to simply because they've had a few shots. Alcohol doesn't fundamentally change who you are. If someone cheats while drunk you can be dang sure they'd do it sober too. Alcohol is just a socially accepted excuse.
@@trajectoryunown Yes, there'll be a third season. Supposedly either at the end of this year, or beginning of 2022.
BTW, one thing that no one talks about - Ivy killed Kite Man's arch and lied about it. In comic book terms, that's arguably an even bigger betrayal than the sexual infidelity. I hope it comes back to create drama next season.
I always thought Ivy was asexual
9:43 *"Scar, despite being... you know... a lion"* made me chuckle out loud.
😅
_"From this primordial media soup arises the queer-coded villain in all their glory--everything taboo and indecent in reality embodied totally unsubtle on the silver screen: men who are visible effeminate, women who are visibly masculine, villains who are hypersexual..."_
So basically, anything sexy and fun. Never change, America.
"queerbating" Ah yes, like how Disney films have had their "first ever LGBT character" about eight times now, and they're always a minor character on screen for five minutes total, and their orientation is only ever acknowledged in external media anyway so it might as well not even be there in the first place.
I've also noticed that gay men are underrepresented even in the more openly accepting media, like She-ra and the Owl House. Main character LGBT reps are almost always female (with non-binary but feminine-appearing partners appearing as minor side characters usually), while male reps are relegated to one character's "goofy dads." Adora and Catra, Spinnerella and Netossa, Perfuma and Scorpia, and... Bow's Dads. Side Note: Double Trouble was my favorite character. Amity and Luz, Rayne (nb) and Eda, and... Willow's Dads. Pearl and Rose, Ruby and Sapphire, Sadie and her NB partner... At least Rainbow 2.0 was good, though not necessarily gay, his personality was delightfully campy. SU didn't have any masculine couples that I can recall lol
So yeah, while we're getting closer, I'm still noticing a reluctance at certain situations.
I think you're getting disney and pixar confused. I don't believe pixar has ever claimed to have a LGBT character
Well, there's more sapphic representation because sapphics wrote those shows, and none of it came easily. I feel that the fact that we see the final result really undercuts how much risk every same sex couple in a show WAS, to the point of cancellations and career threats. Lesbians AREN'T more socially acceptable, in fact both She Ra and TOH were told the fact they had 'gay dads' was acceptable gay rep but they couldn't have the girl protagonists date because that was too risky. Netossa and Spinnerella were considered a risk, let alone Adora and Catra. Steven Universe struggled with being broadcast, and in that and My Little Pony, the tomboy characters were dubbed as 'acceptable' boys in many other language dubs. So yeah, we need more queer couples of ALL types, but putting down the massive efforts to get the few canon same sex couples we do have does no one any favours
I would say that I think it depends on what medium you're looking at? 'Kids' TV does tend to have more lesbian couples, but it's quite hard to find books that focus on lesbian couples, and the same goes for TV shows pitched to teenagers and up.
It's not the creators fault, they really have to fight for any representation they can get. We should hold the people who have power over media instead of throwing the creators under the bus. I know that's not what you mean in your comment, i just wanted to say it because some animation fans think the creators have all the power and are doing things to be assholes, wich irks me a little bit. Nothing against you.
I think it’s a bad take to say that lesbians are more accepted in media and then list shows written by wlw. There should be more mlm in media, yes. But it isn’t fair to look down on popular wlw media for that.
I think you left out a phenomenon that's been going on a lot lately:
Some people within the LGBT communities want representation so badly that they may ironically be doing themselves what the Hays code resulted in society doing to queer characters originally, that is, conflating stereotype with representation. Where now any character who may share one or more qualities with the stereotype is being assumed to belong to the stereotyped group, even when they plainly aren't. And while representation isn't a bad thing, that attitude can serve to damage the group as a whole by reinforcing that they ARE the stereotype.
You wind up getting something akin to, for example, "Oh, that girl dyes their hair an unusual color. Clearly they are a lesbian, because only lesbians dye their hair unusual colors, and noone else." Or, "Oh, that man has a flair for the dramatic and isn't muscular. Clearly they are gay, as only gay men have flairs for the dramatic without being muscular."
It's a weird kind of self-stereotype that keeps cropping up lately, which I think comes from a combination of writers being unwilling to give solid positive character examples, and the community wanting those character examples to claim as representative, and perhaps wanting them so much that they're willing to buy into the very stereotypes used against them.
I just get wary any time I see someone trying to claim that every X character is secretly Y, or even secretly not Y.
I think this isn't exclusive to any one community. It's essentially people finding a potential role model, and trying too hard to be like them.
Stereotypical writing is everywhere. . Dont hark on them when most writers do it with everything.
Its just more notacable there, but do you think the whole bland maleor female love interests is because ill intentions, its more lazyness in writing. And tropes aren inherently bad, as ling as they arent just lazy used as shortcut without thought.b
Yeah, this reminds me of those people who insist that Naoto from Persona (a female character who crossdresses as a male because females are looked down on in the kind of work she’s engaged in) is closet trans just because she masquerades as a male for some time. When those who are starved for representation try to redefine already established characters so that they can have one to call their own, well that’s pretty disrespectful to the personality behind the original character. And the vocal minority gives the more reserved people in the group a bad image, so no one wins.
The only way to have justice is to do it the right way, I think. Likewise, I feel concern when people “settle for less” in bad depictions of minorities because it’s all they currently have. No, I think it’s better to make abundantly clear that it isn’t enough, and let no illusions betray that statement. Otherwise the status quo won’t change.
@@emblemblade9245 Because naoto is at least trans coded,
And japan is not progressive, , its already big to have a atranscoed and gay character in a game. Even if not romancable. Who also, spoke through a flower metaphotical about it.
Its disrespctful to not see naoto as trans coded. Why cant a female detective be respected, in a video game?!. There is sexism but thats a far stretch, to have a deniablitity you actually have trans reprentation.
@@emblemblade9245 somehow i feel they more focus on Naoto than the actual character with gay desires, Kanji. Maybe because most players chose Naoto as best girl and usually take her route so loud minority try to enforce their ideology on a popular character. Most persona players, find strong women super attractive prolly why Naoto and Mitsuru are best girl of their games, personally chose their route.
How do queer people always find each other?
I've noticed as I've gone through high school and now college that, one by one, all my friends are gay. My brother is bi, my bestie is bi, my co-bestie is both lesbian and nonbinary, and I only really have one straight friend left?? I dont get how that happened. We all, separately, fought ourselves about it on our own. My co-bestie was so anxious to tell she wan nonbinary because he was worried I would stop wanting to be friends, meanwhile I'm over here like "eyyy jammidodge is my fave youtuber bro" and that's happened with basically everyone I know???
The reason I say this is because I've been watching this channel for years. I watched it all the way back in middle school. Recently, when JK Rowling was super transphobic, imma be honest I was really afraid for a bit that all my favorite creators would hate me for being me. But then... one by one, the channels start being more and more supportive. I remember specifically sitting and watching SciShow Phych and them going "Hey! This research was ONLY in relation to cisgender individuals, so theres a gap in this study there" and I cried lol. And even though I'm pretty late watching this, it means so much to me, personally, that a channel that shapes so much of my personality would dedicate a whole episode to something like queercoding. I've always loved trope talks, and sometimes stumbling on unexpected support from a familiar face is what I need to get through the night. Thank you.
I don't know if you have seen Jojo's bizzare adventure by my friend theorizes it is like how Stand users are attracted to one another lol.
i am a pansexual gender questioning sack of flesh who just got out of 5th grade.
many of the friends I've grown up with are also gay. I was actually suprised to learn: WE. ARE. EVERYWHERE.
i think it’s partly because of the connection between autism and queerness. a lot more autistic people are gay compared to allistic people, and because autistic people have similar communication styles that allistic people find weird, we naturally seek each other out.
@@knate44 Do you believe in gravity?
That's actually a pretty interesting observation. I(knowingly) have only straight friends, with the exception of my girlfriend, of course. I do have some good accquiantances on all ends of the spectrum, but my core friend group now is mostly happily in a hetero marriage, half of them with kids.
I’m surprised that The Maltese Falcon(1941) was not mentioned. It’s historically important being the first Noir film while also being highly successful at its time. The two main themes of the story are love and greed. The main relationship between Detective Spade and Brigid is portrayed as manipulative and faulty as Brigid constantly lies about her identity. On the other hand, the queer relationship between Cairo and Wilmer is portrayed as genuine. It is insinuated that they broke up before the story started, but Cairo is willing to put himself in front of the unconscious Wilmer when Gutman(the main antagonist) threatens him. By the end of the story, Wilmer is actually the one to stop Gutman, while Spade lets him run away. It does not necessarily break the trope as both Cairo and Wilmer are antagonistic, but it comes across as very sympathetic.
This is something I've never really understood with Queer-baiting and if someone can give me an explanation or just another perspective, by all means please do so. How much coding does it generally take for someone to be identified as queer? I'll use Frodo and Sam from Lord of the Rings for example. It wasn't until recently that I found out a lot of people were saying Sam and Frodo were gay for each other, whereas I legitimately only saw them as the best of friends. The traits I saw in them were traits I share with my friends and those traits are greatly admired. So I guess my question, how much coding goes into the difference a character doing something because they are a friend, and them doing something because they are a lover?
That's people grasping at straws to force LGBT into a close male bond. I find it not very progressive to say all close men are gay...
The whole Frodo and Sam thing is really just the result of platonic friendships being alienated more and more in mainstream media as time goes on
A guy can't compliment or comfort another guy (same deal with women) nowadays without being seen as gay
This is a matter of interpretation. It's like asking how blue the curtains have to be to convey sadness.
Different people interpret things differently. Homosexual people for example are more likely to interpret Frodo and Sam as romantic, simply because they enjoy depictions of homosexuality.
Probably people seeing what they want to see? I don't have a real problem that as long as they don't go too far...
Probably a mix of being starved for gay representation, the social stigma around any close relationships between men lest they be perceived as gay, and perhaps just a pinch of seeing their own relationships being reflected on screen. Like, a lot of people I know say their partner is simultaneously their best friend. While there are some people that take that concept extremely far and end up saying there's no distinction between a close platonic relationship and a romantic relationship, or that your partner SHOULD be your best friend, I generally agree that a solid platonic friendship is a good foundation to build a romantic relationship.
Has there been a Trope Talk on true love's kiss? That idea is everywhere in media and can range from mcguffin to the be-all, cure-all.
Just note that Double Trouble was made by Noelle, a non binary trans lesbian who said they always identified with non-human shapeshifters BECAUSE they are a non-binary person (see also their comic Nimona)
I don't even think that the idea of non-binary people being represented by shape-shifters is necessarily bad... I mean, it's kind of a wish-fulfilment, that's what I hear a lot. Especially for gender-fluid people, so they are perceived by the people around them exactly the way they feel, and they never have to explain themselves. I'm especially thinking of Alex from the Magnus Chase novels (books in the Percy Jackson world, sort of kinda sequels I think?)
I once heard it described approximately like this:
The problem isn't the fact that characters like Double Trouble exist. The problem is that that's very nearly the *only* kind of non-binary characters that happen.
There's a portion of the audience that grows tired of almost every non-binary character having to be something inhuman.
It is true that in that particular show, most of the main characters are some sort of fairy princess, and many characters have animal-like traits like fish tails and lobster claws. But Double Trouble, being more reptilian, still seems a bit more distant from the "human" baseline. Even the plant princess seems mostly human, with the flowers and vines serving almost more as decoration than as a separation from humanity.
It can be less a matter of disliking Double Trouble, and more a matter of wishing there was more variety available, and seeing confirmation reflected in the media that non-binary people can still be human.
Double Trouble is one of my favorite characters, but I do also agree with the point that we need more nonbinary characters in general, so that we can have characters like Double Trouble without that being *all* we have.
@@skaryzgik Again, context matters. Those non binary characters were made by cis people in the past. As a result, us who grew up with them ended up identifying with shapeshifters, monsters etc. Reclaimed them. This nb creator did too.
didn't read this through properly and i thought you meant Noelle Deltarune
I know this comment was made before he revealed his name, but his name is Nate now! He’s Transmasc
Dang, between this and the Himbo Tier List, Osp is knocking it out of the park this week on vids!
Big agree on that "Are they good friends or queer?" "whichever makes you keep watching". I hate when media does that.
Oh boy. Hays Code, here we come! Oz’s Cowardly Lion was lucky to survive.
so what does "law, (natural or human) shall not be ridiculed nor shall sympathy be given for its violation" mean? like does that mean that sci fi is illegal because flying ships breaks the laws of physics? does that make homosexuality double illegal?
@@vintheguy Breaking a law isn't prevented. What matters is that it isn't ridiculed. If someone just mouthed off on gravity and Newton, all while floating above the ground*, that would be disallowed. Explain how flying ships work, so that they aren't actually breaking the law of reality, a-okay.
*And now I'm thinking of the song Defying Gravity from Wicked.
@@vintheguy 1. Why bring this up, as a response to my comment?
2. Airplanes were invented before Hays Code. And most aliens draw inspiration from either humanoid biology or Earth-based animals. Are you really suggesting that speculative inventions based on current nature/physics is breaking Hays Code? For another example, the 1930s had Radios and Telephones; would combining both inventions into a cell phone for a movie be against nature, physics, etc? I can ask that, because the first cellular call was made 5 years after Hays Code ended.
3. Hays Code was made during a time without CGI or digital editing. Everything shown needed a practical effect, making it plausible in nature. You want a Ray Gun? Either film a quick burst flamethrower, a firework, or similar, then superimpose that footage as the Ray.
Plausible deniability. If nobody asked and nobody told, queer coding in non-villains could occasionally make it past the censors, especially in comedic deuteragonists like the Cowardly Lion, where they could pass them off as just being "socially awkward" and "not understanding the unseemly implications of their actions".
The Hays Code, it's wording is so vague, the natural law part meant that it was culturally subjective. Like showing someone drinking coffee or alcohol would be considered against the natural law of some religions. Just as showing a girl and boy playing a board game together with cultures that have strict gender roles would.
The thing that annoys me the most, the part of the Bible that says that homosexuality is wrong is a mistranslation. It doesn't say "A man who sleeps with another man shall surely be stoned", it actually says "A man who sleeps with a child shall surely be stoned (I should clarify, it directly translates to boy but the original language didn't have a word for girl or child, so boy was used to refer to any child older than a baby but younger than a adult).
That line which was used to justify discrimination against homosexuals, was actually condemning paedophiles.
Wired side note: did you know that because of this kind of stuff, the writer of the batman comics at the time had to put Robin srounding by a whole bunch of women because Robin (a 13 year old) was seen a homoerotic because he spent to much time with batman 🙅🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
wut
Well, It would be hell of a lot less sus, if not for the way Robin was dressed... And that batman continues to adopt traumatized orphans and dressing them all up in the same costume...
You should check out the documentary about the Adam West Batman show - there was a whole thing about it that the actor had to deal with.
I want a story where a knight is going on her hero's journey or something, and ends up in conflict with a villainous witch who does typically Disney villain things, but then the chemistry is too strong and they hook up and the rest of the plot is them being an adorable odd couple with the knight trying to be heroic and the witch wanting to do crimes
This is exactly what my friend and I are doing with our dnd characters!
He’s a bubbly bard and I’m a grumpy necromancer. The Bugs Bunny x Squidward paring that we all didn’t know we needed.
I would suggest looking through manga then. Japan tends to do this more than american/western fiction. Can't think of names though, I barely remember my favorites.
@@mcstrategist also light novel titles tend to be _extremely_ weirdly named.
I'm not sure I'd call a two people with every reason to deeply despise and want to murder each other an 'adorable odd couple'. More like 'toxic disaster for all involved'.
@@zoro115-s6b As stated, probably. I think it can be workshopped, though. It all depends on what "doing crimes" entails. Maybe the laws that are to be broken are actually awful, and the knight should have some sympathy for someone who's breaking them. Sort of like, in D&D alignment terms, a Lawful Good character going off to fight what they think is a Chaotic Evil character, only to find a Chaotic Good one who's just angry and depressed and lashing out instead.
"I'm a guy"
"Well nobody is perfect"
So it came from Some Like It Hot FINALLY i remember what movie that scene is from omg
Red: Ok, today we’ll be talking about queer coded villians-
**mickie mouse crawling out off the sewer:* Ya called?
I knew the mouse was fruity😳
@@barondubose9260 PFFFT THAT WASNT WHAT I WAS GOING FOR BUT I LOVE IT
@@barondubose9260 oh my god, that somehow makes sense
Nooo not the erasure noo
I came here expecting nothing more than talking about queer-coded villains, and got a crash course in gay culture.
pretty epic honestly
Damn I feel like watching this made me feel more comfortable abt myself. Cheers and thank you for that Red!!
Obligatory comment saying i watch your content. But seriously im glad you feel more comfortable
@@badassbillyb Thank you the lotus, obligatory comment saying I enjoy consuming you to distract myself from the stresses of returning to Ithaka
Oh cool! I just came across your channel for the first time a few days ago and now I see you here! Love your content man!
Comfort is overrated
@@iBloodxHunter then stop rating it
It's also really interesting to me how there seems to be a direct correlation between characters being neurodivergent (usually autistic) coded and characters coded to be asexual/aromantic, which has to do with the infantilisation of both neurodivergent people (especially autistic ones) and asexual/aromantic people, because a lot of people think that in order to be asexual/aromantic one has to have the "mind of a child" or be "innocent and pure" and autistic people are considered "children in adult bodies", thought to be more "innocent and pure" than neurotypical people.
That’s stupid.
Source: am autistic, am _very much not_ innocent and pure.
@@Xalerdane I too am autistic (I also happen to be asexual and aromantic) and am not innocent or pure. Go figure
I want an an ace character with autism who constantly makes inuindos I can't spell that word frick
WTF? A lot of (real) autistic people are asexual/aromantic, that doesn't make them either child-like or pure?
@@mackereltabbie Precisely
The ending to “Some Like It Hot” genuinely makes me chuckle every time I hear it
The Scar thing is actually kinda plausible, as lions are one of the many non-human species that often form same-sex relationships, which is why I love that a group of lions is called a PRIDE.
I read once that it’s been documented that two lions will successfully share a pride. The catch is, lions reinforce their position by regularly banging the females, and to make the relationship work the two males will take it in turns to bang each other.
So now you have to wonder what exactly it was about not being king that got under Scar’s skin…
@@Xalerdane You are aware that lions that share a pride are I believe in more then 90% of the cases brothers. So not sure if that incest route is what you want advocate for.
Also fun lion fact, Scar would be the dominate male/more attractive male from the two brothers. His dark mane is very attractive to lionesses as it shows an increase in testosteron and fuffils the same role as peacock feathers and the like in nature and reproduction.
@@BrotherHood-xh9sg Hey man, there's a species of mite that's born pregnant with multiple female offspring and only one male offspring inside, and the females take it in turn to mate with their brother before eating their way out of mom and leaving his underdeveloped ass to die with her.
Human standards of sexual morality aren't necessarily animal standards of sexual morality.
You're 100% right about Scar being the one who got all the looks though. RL lionesses all like their men tall dark and handsome. Guess Mufasa was just one of those guys who're far more charismatic and charming than they look.
Let's also not forget that the Hayes Code only existed because of the threat of government censorship. A lot of film-makers actively despised it because of the frequently stupid limits it placed on the medium, but the threat of congress actively passing laws to censor it let them tolerate it because it was still better than having government spooks standing over your shoulder and watching you make art, with the implicit threat of jail time if you didn't conform.
This was the lesser evil.
What all happened to the first amendment tho?
@@kaboomgaming4255 just because you can say anything doesn’t mean you can say anything and not get punished for it by other rules and policies
@@kaboomgaming4255 It's never existed, lol. It was way too broad of an amendment, considering if taken literally, it would literally not count for active threats against you. Even in the way that we consider it today, where the freedom is negligible if a threat is sufficient, it's *never* been treated as such. The Sedition Act is an obvious early example, since no one ever really intended to follow the amendments. (At least the ones that are super broad)
@@kaboomgaming4255 To quote George Carlin: you don't have rights, you have bill of temporary privileges. And the list gets shorter every day.
@@cheezemonkeyeater Do keep in mind that Carlin was primarily referring to the batshit insane ridiculousities of the Cold War era, where they censored and sanitized absolutely everything, so it's not really comparable to anything in the modern day.
(Though, that's just for the free speech amendments.)
I'm straight and I'm trying to write a story about a MC supervillain who's bi (kinda like Megamind for an adult audience). So THANK YOU for this because a) I wanna know the roots and make it self-aware and not harmful and b) I just....love villains so freaking much.
my one piece of advice would be make sure the only significant queer character isn't the villian. a bi villian is fine, as long as they're not the only queer character.
It strikes me how much subtext I miss; I would've never thought of Megamind as bi-coded.
Also, I've heard that Thor: Ragnarok is bi culture (Hela being the prime bi villain), so maybe just absorb that into your system while you're writing.
Oh my f*cking God.
Write whatever you want dude. Don't be afraid of the political correctness mob.
If representation was done right, LGBT characters should occupy only a few percentages of the total cast, to reflect reality. But writers who write for gay audiences skew that percentage heavily anyways. So why should you care about what's "proper"
@@dithaingampanmei Remember that gays flock together
@@somewhereelse1235 we kinda do tho, often without even realizing it. Like, so many of my childhood friends that I hadn't seen for years came out around the same time I did. Somehow we always seem to find each other.
This is gonna be fun
Yes
[gets notification]
Welp
Beat me to it
I think you mean “this is where the fun begins”.
@@Mr._Magpie "Just like the simulations"
7:05 "...broadly heralded the beginning of the transition to where we are now - queer identities being publicly acknowledged and celebrated has become the mainstream attitude, while bigotry is considered the embarrassing unfortunate reality best swept under the rug." While things have certainly gotten better (by quite a margin, which im happy for) sadly we're far from bigotry being the hush-hush shame that this implies. Between Terf Island spitting out new hate every day, comedians just saying bigoted shit and pretending that it's a joke so it isn't allowed to be criticized, and all of the legal battles queer people are fighting for their basic rights beyond "here's your paper that says youre married now that gives few to none of the rights that straight marriage does"it's still a very much prevalent uphill battle that bigots are losing, but definitely not losing quietly or ashamedly.
I can see why Nico Di Angelo hid his sexual identity for as long as possible.
Note this character in the Riordanverse was born around the time period when gay people were treated badly even killed.
He feared that inspite of the fact that he's now several decades all that ended he was still afraid that even telling his sisters or his closest friends would have them turn on him.
Even after 1 finds out and was fully supportive he was like you can't tell the others if they find out...His friend cuts him off saying you'll have that many more people up support you and bring the wrath of the gods down on who ever will give him a hard time about being gay but it's his choice when to reveal it. He eventually does at the end of the next book even getting a boyfriend.
I'm with you, but one sentence has me very confused.
"Note this character in the Riordanverse was born around the time period when gay people were."
Were there supposed to be more words after "were"? Because people have been gay since the dawn of time, so as it is I don't know what you're saying here.
@@khayyin359 i think they meant when being gay was acceptable lol or somth like that
@@khayyin359 thanks I didn't notice the mistake
More because it wasnt planned but just happened and made more sense , still props for adapting
It's also pretty interesting that what it took for him to come out was a fight against Cupid himself.
To be fair to Maleficent, how are you gonna give somebody a "true love's kiss" if youve never seen them awake? Thats a "true horny's kiss" at best. Love doesnt happen at first sight, thats called horny. Love comes when you actually know someone.
It's better than the original story where she wakes up after getting knocked up.
Now I want a version of sleeping beauty where the prince is about to kiss her, then Cheems just appears out of nowhere and sends him to horny jail, and it's the sound of him getting bonked that wakes her up.
At least Aurora and Phillip had a scene together. In the fairytale, she's been asleep for a hundred years, and is woken up by a complete stranger.
@@KittyOfChess I believe the original has her assaulted in her sleep, get pregnant, then the baby sucks the needle out of her finger when it's born.
A rare time to appreciate Disney making it family friendly.
@@psychronia That is a version of the story, but the sleeping princess is a common fairytale trope, and as such there is no exact original.
13:26 Two words, one name: Trevor Phillips.
And I think the reason bi and pan characters are portrayed as promiscous is because that's the only way to "show" they're actually bi/pan. If they were single or, God forbid, in a steady relationship with someone, they could say "Oh yes, indeed, I find that person over there of a different gender than my partner extremely appealing and I'd be ready to go down on them right here and now!" and people would wave it away saying "Oh, they're just into fashion and really like what that person was wearing. Or they just appreciate their good looks. Nothing romantic or sexual about that."
On the other hand, writers might fear that bi/pan characters who don't "act out" their sexuality might come off as queerbaiting, especially when they're in hetero relationships.
I get your point, but a rather easy fix is to have an ex in a prominent role, or use a good old fashioned love triangle.
Oh man. One of my bisexual OCs is charismatic and flirtatious (respectfully), but he is also very motherly, responsible, and overall a sweet man. Part of the reason why he is flirtatious is because that's just how he is, but it's also because I needed to show that he was bisexual and not just queerbait. Reading your comment made me feel guilty of stereotyping but idk what to do!
I haven't had the chance to rewatch it yet but iirc the show Loki did a decent job and had him basically just say 'I'm bi'.
The way I see it is…
Some straight protagonists only ever get one character they have stated attraction to. Even if there’s tons of people of the opposite sex, it doesn’t mean they find them all hot.
If a character says they’re bi but over the course of the story only finds one person they have a romantic interest in, is that realistic? If so, is it ok to do, or do they NEED to display attraction to both genders at some point or else them being bi is wasted?
I wonder if subconsciously this is the conundrum people have when including such a character. Or maybe not.
@@emblemblade9245 I guess it all depends on why you have a bi character. If you've decided this character is bi because you want a bi character, then it's normal to want to do something with, or at least to show it. On the other hand, if them being bi arises naturally as you write, then you don't need to show it: you realized your character is bi, so should your readers.
If you want to show it, you just need them to be attracted to other people. You can be in a serious relationship and wonder if things would have worked with X, or notice that Y has a really nice ass, or that you can't understand how you ever found Z sexy.
See, this is why I love The Dragon Prince (among other reasons). It shows pride, doesn't make it a huge deal, but doesn't hide it. They treat it like a normal relationship, nothing more, both less.
Same! And I think we're only going to be getting more representation in the show as time goes on. Do you think Kazi would count as a "human" enby, since elves don't seem particularly alien in this show?
same with kipo and the age of wonderbeasts! one of the main characters comes out as gay (spoiler) and it’s handled very normally by everyone around him. he’s just gay and it’s not a big deal. anyway go watch kipo rn it’s on netflix
The biggest mistake queer writers make is trying to *prove* their characters can be gay.
The greatest victory queer writers can claim is just letting their characters be gay.
The Owl House does this to some extent as well. you could argue that the scene where Luz officially comes out to her mom defeats this point, but coming out is still normal to queer culture
@@gr3at.s4ge Yes I adore TOH!!