Trope Talk: Fates Worse Than Death
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Today let's talk about everyone's favorite Stock Nightmare Fuel trope - and no, I wasn't expecting to use so many DCAU examples either! You know, for a colorful kid's cartoon, those bad guys sure end up in their own personal hells a lot.
This extremely cheerful topic was requested by patron Glen Taylor! Thanks, I think.
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Essentially...
Writer: *slaps character*, this one can fit so much suffering-
I don't know why and I don't know how, but I can _feel_ this comment
LOL
Yes. Yes. This is amazingly correct.
I feel personally attacked.
I have rarely laid eyes on a summary this accurate.
Zuko: if we're found in the earth kingdom, we'll be killed
Iroh: and if we're found in the fire nation, we'll be turned over to alzula
Zuko: earth kingdom it is
Yeet
Heh yeeeeeaaahh she craaaaaazzy
No fate could be worse than that.
*Realizes that someone could watch Mario and Sonic making out for the rest of their lives*
Wait a minu-
@@master0fthearts894 you ever watch little Nicky
"Well maybe not that horrible but still pretty bad"
@@master0fthearts894 hot
Would Ozai losing his firebending and being replaced as Fire Lord by Zuko, thus watching Zuko undo the past 100 years of Fire Nation imperialism be a fate worse than death for him? I think it would, personally
Definitely. Ozai was a huge narcissist, and he had his inflated ego obliterated in the finale. Living as someone powerless while watching everything he'd done be undone would definitely be worse than death for him.
@@zoro115-s6b think they could rub salt into the wounds by informing him before the exile that they were going to write him out of the history books?
@@zoro115-s6b
For _him,_ yes, but the reality facing Zuko and the rest of the world is that by leaving Ozai alive you run the risk of loyalists dissatisfied with Zuko's attempts at reform (because Muh Imperialism) resolving to, you know, kill him and reinstate Ozai.
For Prince Zuko to secure his reign as Fire Lord and be able to reform the Fire Nation to try and initiate a lasting peace, Ozai would have to have been killed.
@@Boss_Isaac spoiler: that's.... Exactly what happened in The Search comic trilogy.
@@gatsynogim
Exactly, and those events are evident of just how short-sighted Aang (and by extension Bryke) was in his deciding to leave Ozai alive.
Why Bryke couldn't depict the four nations coming together to form an international tribunal that has Ozai placed on trial and reasonably slated for execution? I don't know.
“If you kill off the hero what will you do for the next season? Try and sell us on a new protagonist?”
JoJo: Yes.
There's no way that can work 8 times can it?
Jojo: Try me.
You thought you were getting a new villain, but it was me Dio
*What you're seeing is indeed the truth. You are seeing the movements created by your abilities, but you will never arrive at the truth that's going to happen. None who stand before me shall ever get there, regardless of their abilities. This is the power of Gold Experience Requiem.*
And it keeps working.
diavolo
Fates worse than death:
Every censored death in 4kids dubs because they all stick someone somewhere for eternity because kids don't have much of a grasp on how terrifying that would be.
Nah as a kid I definitely thought the Shadow Realm was worse than just dying
Im of the oppinion that the Shadow Realm was actually a good change. Its way more terrifying than dying. Dying is doing the villian a favor if you ask me
As an adult learning what the Shadow Realm was a substitute for, I was like "Wait, that's it? They don't get sent to a place of eternal torment of various flavors? They're just killed? Lame." I'm thinking of your soul getting trapped in a card and being on fire, that weird graveyard thing, having your mind shattered, losing it, and those are all badass horrible fates bad enough to be nightmare fuel. Dying, though? That's basically vanilla.
@@kyrudo I mean sure it’s cooler but if their goal was to not scare kids. It had the opposite effect XD
I think an eternity of having to eat broccoli or asparagus in a vegetable world for eternity would be terrifying to most kids.
This time on Trope Talk: Fate worse than Death
Last time: Magnificent Bastards
Last last time: Tragedy
Last last last time: Greatest Fears
Ummm are you okay Red?
*Edit: Ummm are you okay Patreons who requested these?
It’s the pandemmy it’s getting to the best of us😭😁
YEEET
Haha lol thats true
It’s been a tiring year.
Probably not. And most of these video weren't exactly her best work. Something tells me the sleep deprivation is taking its toll.
The fact that this is the “kid friendly” option is fucking horrifying. Cuz the most awful/intriguing ends are always these ones. 😂👌
**has childhood flashbacks of crying about villains not being killed** (o_o;;)
At Malaysia, the only cartoon movie that could think of that use this trope is "Geng: Adventure Begin!" After that, the rest of cartoon movie go full on kill off the enemy (even though our superhero is like same age and way more powerful then Aang) or sent to prison( Watch Ejen Ali movie for that one)
I remember Mark Hamill saying that the way the Joker's gas works in Batman TAS was made to circumvent rules about killing in kids' shows, and how he actually considered it a fate worse than death.
@@Eyewarp Yeah they were forced to laugh themselves into a coma while their face was contorted into a horrifying grin, but at least little Timmy didn't see any blood that he probably has seen if he ever scraped his knee
*looks at Porky Minch in Mother 3*
Apparently Porky was originally supposed to die in that game, but they thought that was too dark for a kids game and instead decided to trap him inside of a pod for the rest of the universe
3:34 Fire Lord: Relax Zuko, *this will be great character development.* * burns half his son's face off and banishes him *
Now all we need is the spiritual twin: the tragic backstory
Hienz Dufenshmirtz is building a tragic backstory rememberinator
I need this!!
Or do it RIGHT before the charecter the bites it.
Hachamachamaaa!
It's a trope that needs discussing. Particularly how overused it is. These days it seems like writers can't think of any character motivation that doesn't involve dead parents or burned down villages or spending years as a slave or some similar over the top tragedy.
It's very rare to see a hero that has a decent home to go to and could live a quiet life if they wanted to, but actually actively chooses adventure.
Words heard moments before disaster: "It's for character development, I swear."
Red: *describes time loop, doing things over and over again, as a fate worse than death*...
Everyone in repetitive dead-end jobs: Fuck.
Hey there is a reason that some venting blogs and subreddits have posts from people working in malls around holiday shopping season, laundries on discount clothes day and restraunts on game days ending with the famous phrase "I have no mouth and I must scream"
In fact, the phrase originated as a protest by deeply oppressed second class citiziens with dead end thank less jobs who were essentially politically voiceless. I believe it was popular among young black teens in the segregation south who couldn't really vote for several intersecting reasons before Harlan Ellison saw it as a caption of a political cartoon and asked permission to use it as the title for his infamous story.
Italian mob boss be like
Re zero be like
When a customer is determined to do whatever it takes to save 30 cents on a $27 order and doesn't care how long it takes...
And then tries to pay with a $100 bill anyway even though there's a sign saying "No bills over $20" before complaining for an hour to the manager...
Truly a fate worse than death
Time loop is an Terrifying thing let’s see From the insider perspective Say One day you were walking around Thinking About your work What you’re gonna eat for dinner All small talk not much Then As Night come You goes into Your bed Locking your Window pulling in the Blind-shutter locking the door checking The Bed And Then You have lied down on the bed You Have seen an Weird Figure Whispering something “W...k....e....p..” You can’t quite make out the word As Your world begin to Darken you’ve sleep
You woke up Fresh and Alive Thinking About your work What you’re gonna eat for dinner All small talk not much Then As Night come You goes into Your bed Locking your Window pulling in the Blind-shutter locking the door checking The Bed And Then You have lied down on the bed
You woke upThinking you have this Uncanny feeling that You can’t quite put your Shapeless Limb on wait Why Did I Think Of “Shapeless limb?” And Slowly He’s Started to become Aware Of the Loop Knowing Everything will be meaningless seeing everything Repeats Each repetitions An Different one But Once the day is over It Restarted again Over And Over Like An Script That Was Axed Or was it? Perhaps This is another part of the script Was He ever free from The Loop in the first place If Suddenly Thing became different Did he escape the loop? Or is It Part of an Bigger Loop? Is His life still stuck in that Little Loop Is it or is it not? Is he still in an bigger loop? Or is he being paranoid? The Black figure appears again whispering by The Side Of His bed “Wa...k....up” He’s Slept yet again He slowly forgot about it until *It Repeated again*
I like the idea of someone on a big team experiencing a horrific permanent fate worse than death, but can still help the team in some way.
“You’ll be co-working in security wit-“
“What on earth is THAT!?”
“Hey, that’s Shelly, she got turned into a sentient mass of goo, so we’ve stuck her in surveillance to monitor the place”
“Is she… alright with that?”
“Well, we stuck fridge magnets to her which she can move to communicate and she seems okay with it, generally speaking. Her favourite food is animal crackers and she enjoys trying to fit into different test tubes, Have fun!
That is simultaneously uplifting and horrific.
69 nice
I love Shelly already. Can someone please write this story?
I love this idea
Is no one gonna mention Mechamaru from Jujutsu Kaisen?
I remember back in middle school we read a short story where this child psychopath got ahold of an immortality serum and was defeated by being encased in concrete beneath a road for essentially eternity.
That and the Ducktales episode where the whole world almost gets encased in gold forever really messed me up.
Holy fucking shit
holy shit a child
Geez. That’s rough, buddy
What type of short story is that?
We had this short story of a guy who kidnapped a child. He explained to the kid that his own son was kidnapped, raped, and cut in pieces which were then found in various places around the country. The rapists were arrested, but their lawyer got them out. The man then says that that lawyer is the kids' father. The kid denies this, he starts crying and begging, saying that he knows the other boy from school, they have the same first name. The man believes it, then shoots himself. The boy, relieved, thinks to himself that his dad, the lawyer, would be proud of him, only to encounter one of the rapists in the house where he is held. The story ends.
I WAS 13 WHEN I HEARD THIS WHAT THE FUCK
I've always been partial towards "Hell is just a word. The reality is much, much worse." Being vague generally does a good job for horror.
Agreed. Our brains know how to freak us out. Give them space to imagine something terrible, and they’ll make sure we don’t sleep for a couple days 😂
The horror of the unknown is also very effective because everyone designs it for themselves automatically. They fill in the blanks with what would be terrifying to themselves specifically, meaning everyone gets a personalized horror experience.
Me,making hell real in my story: yeets main character in here for 1000 years as good ending(he do be rippin and tearin here)
“Fate worst than death”
Me: Death+
Death++
Theres Deader than dead trope
It's death, but ad-free and on a monthly subscription
When you're already dead but you die again so you do a New Game+ on Death.
@Salma Mohammed Get your Death Battle Pass for new alternatives to being sent to hell every week!
Recently I had a nightmare where a giant touched me with his spoon and I shattered into a bunch of different versions of myself, all with various components of my body replaced with spoons in grotesque fashion while feeling everything those versions are feeling all at once. It sounds silly, but it's definitely the second most This Is Worse Than Dying dream I've ever had.
*_second_*_ most?_
@@MFlari The first most is honestly even harder to explain the horror of in a way that makes sense outside of dreams. I was standing at shallow depth in an "ocean" made of static (with a coastal shore within view and everything), which offered no buoyancy, so I just had to stand on the "ocean" floor to keep my head above. I tried to go to shore, but any time I took a step in any direction, even back the way I came, the ground was a little further down and I came a little closer to my head being swallowed by static, knowing intuitively that one the static swallowed me I could never leave. Once my head was under, I awoke to sleep paralysis, a strange screeching sound blaring deafeningly in my head as a black static-y presence at the foot of the bed reached its tendrils into my feet and up my body, as if trying to infect me and the world around me with itself, to drown forever in both the dream and real worlds in the endless sensory barrage of static and shrieking.
@@meganbarhorst5272 oh my fucking god
@@meganbarhorst5272 God damn, that feels more like *eldritch* horror than anything
@@meganbarhorst5272 what the actual fuck.
Best use of this trope for me was the ending of a Doctor Who episode, the Family of Blood. "We wanted to live forever. So the Doctor made sure that we did."
YEEET
The best DW of the New Era.
@@multiplayergamer5728 why are u replying yeet to literally every comment
I thought of this too
@Grima the Fell Dragon wait what did he do to them?
I un-ironically think JoJo's bizzare adventure does the fate worse than death trope really well, only 3 main villains have technically died. Two villains are dying constantly over and over again, and another one has an ability that makes him completely invulnerable but he's trapped at the bottom of a lake and can't move so he's constantly drowning and at one point just stops thinking
Fate worse than death : Check
Impossible stakes like ending the world and actually doing it: Check
Killing Protagonists: Check
Oh Yea, It’s JoJo’s
I absolutely love so much about Jojo, but that is one large, scalding criticism I have about it.
Like, it actually makes me dislike Josuke for how often he does it to enemy stand users. Hypocrite.
@@RacingSnails64 I wouldn't mind if Joske had just said "death is too good for you Angelo."
But instead he acted like turning him into a rock forever was more moral than killing him.
Wdym unironically?
@@zoro115-s6b 🗿
The irony of a fate worse than death being used as the “moral” alternative to killing is so funny
So many of the no lethal endings for Dishonored are....rough
@@jen.kj7 Oh I'm think about in JJBA where they put a man in a rock forever, fully conscience and specifically point out they are being better than the guy because they aren't killing him lol (he was a POS though)
Naughty babies get put in *the twelth plane of torment* to attone for their sins
@@mdg245 I can't say I feel a whole lot of pity for Angelo getting rock'ed, but yea, to say that's more moral than killing him is silly.
This is why I love playing Paragon Shepard in Mass Effect a lot of the time, because he doesn't kill people, he just forces them to suffer in penance, which is arguably more satisfying. :)
My favorite use of this trope is in the manga Luck Stealer.
The main character (Kurusu) of Luck Stealer does just that, steals the luck of anyone he touches. He has therefore become an highly efficient assassin who can't really be traced as the person dies in an accident that seems completely random. The reason he does this is while he can steal the luck of basically anyone he touches, his daughter can't generate luck on her own but can get it from him, so he takes the luck of bad people and gives it to her. It's really badass and I really recommend, fill it into Seven Seas survey or something as it doesn't have an official English translation yet. Anyway, spoilers below.
So in one chapter, I think 2, his daughter is worried about one of her classmates. His mother recently died, but the class was supported him on and he seemed to get better, but suddenly he got much worse and refuses to talk to anyone. So she asks her father to talk to him. In the beginning he refuses to say anything. But one day he waits for Kurusu outside school and shows him his wounds all over his stomach and it's implications of worse things happening. It's their narcissistic teacher who has been abusing him after school who abuses him each time someone does better than her as she's upset that the teacher profession doesn't have the same status anymore and she's nearing 25 and hasn't married yet. She even photographs his wounds to get moments of joy when alone, so she's a real piece of shit (although that might be insulting to shit). So Kurusu steals her camera, leaves it near a police station, then steals her luck. Police looks at the photos, in hopes of finding the owner, comes to question her, she runs away, jumps out a window, but "miraculously" survives, but both her face and reputation (everything she's been living for) are ruined. It's the only time a "target" has survived, and for her surviving was the worst punishment. And so, so satisfying!
This feels like a super villian who stoped in the middle of their monolouge to explain to the hero what is happening to them
*Villain:* "Haha, finally, I have you in my grasp! You fool should never have crossed me, for now, after all the grievances you've put me through, I will achieve my goal to destroy the world and make you experience a fate worse than death!"
*Hero:* "... What?"
*V:* "What do you mean 'what'?"
*H:* "What do you think you can do to me that is supposed to be worse than death?"
*V:*
*H:*
*V:*
*H:*
*V:* "This video was sponsored by Campfi-"
@@frauleinzuckerguss1906 That's a lot better than Raid Shadow Legends
@@curiouscarlo7276 *Loki:* I remember Raid Shadow Legends.
*Thor:* Not here! You give up this poisonous game!
- [YTP] Avengers Ensemble
Notes that I’ve taken from this to make the fate worse than death more interesting:
- Make the fate matter to the plot, not just the character.
- Make the character more than grumpy, make them flavorful, colorful, and give more personality.
- Actually dive into the psychological trauma instead of just brushing it off.
- Allow it be a fate worse than death but don’t make it functionally death. Allow interaction.
- Consistency.
- If it’s for revenge, make sure it’s not only from one place or one emotion.
The reason I took notes? *I’m a sucker for this trope, and I wanna make it good if I write it myself.*
Have you read Mistborn? It hits most of those tropes :)
Like Re:Zero?
@@elizabethsullivan1894 It’s on my list now
@@justarandomuser480 OH?
I'ma use these tips for my poor, traumatized DnD character if you don't mind. Thanks!
“He never raised his voice, that was the worst of it. The fury of a Time Lord. And then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons why he’d run away from us and hidden.
He was being kind.”
This is my personal favorite Fate Worse than Death, and I was hoping Red would bring it up, especially as a counter-example to the "it's good when the good guys do it, but bad when the bad guys do", since the characters acknowledge this as part of the Doctor's unsettling dark side
What did he do that episode?
I think my favorite example of the fate worse than death is Overhaul in My Hero Academia. He lost his arms, he lost his quirk, he lost Eri, and he lost his power. But that wasn’t the reason he screamed so horribly. It was that he had lost his power to help the previous leader of the Shie Hassaikai from his coma and to bring the Yakuza back to power, so he could repay the leader. His scream gave me chills, and made me feel bad for him, regardless of what he did to poor Eri and Togata.
@@defensivekobra3873 do you mean what episode or what did he do to them?
@@giornogiovanna8486 well i do not watch the show personally so i am more interested in the outcome, but this would be a great way to make me watch the show in the first place
One of my favorite "fates worse than death" is the reveal that the character was *always* screwed up physically.
A character in the book I'm writing believed they were born as a satyr, and later on its revealed that they were a human who had hooves melded into their feet and antlers driven into their skull.
That sounds horrific. Nice
I kinda like doing this sort of thing via time travel nonsense. There's a weapon in my story (a wyrd, a type of indestructible item with no defined time of origin, not all of which are weapons, and each wyrd has unique effects) that causes any injuries it inflicts to exist retroactively.
If you break someone's hand with it, they were born with a broken hand that mysteriously never heals, and ironically only by being hit with the weapon that inflicted the injury in the first place can they start to heal from it. The weapon can't be used to kill someone as they would have never existed to be killed by the weapon and would thus create a paradox, so the threads of fate itself conspire to prevent this except where it's baked in and would be a paradox not to happen.
There's a character with healing blood who suffers from this, they've been horribly injured their whole life, a massive hole through their chest, there is no logical reason they should survive, they should have died from missing organs or blood loss or infection or any number of things, and they've spent their whole life suffering and wanting to die, but the inevitability of fate forces them to live on. Their healing blood is used by the ruling class, and they're kept alive in this state of perpetual suffering, until one of the ruling class eventually defects, and gives them the wyrd, which they immediately use to end their own life, retroactively causing their own injury that they had suffered from in perpetuity, but at least they finally get to die from it now.
@@pumpkinpartysystem Whoa- I love that idea! So creative! Massive props 👏👏
I have to blame Homestuck for giving me such a love of time nonsense. It's the biggest single influence on my writing by far.
Ah, wonderful body horror
The horror musical "The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals" genuinely made me cry because brain-overwriting fate worse than death is a true and deep fear of mine. And SPOILERS the main character *loses*.
Bruh saaame
That show was so scary, yo :O When he starts singing to her at the end... shivers! And her begging for help from the audience? Ugh :S
there is a fan adaption of "I have no mouth and I must scream" called "In the AM" that twists the knife by implying that the other characters are freed by the protagonist's sacrifice and now lead normal lives before reveals it's his imagination and showing his blob form is permanently FUSED TO THEIR DEAD BODIES.
@@dinadina2000 I mean the twist is just apparent if you’ve read the story by the fact a normal life to them would be eating the singular rat they could fin in a metallic wasteland
@@dinadina2000 can you link me it? Im struggling to find it on google
Red:
*slaps roof of fate worse than death*
"This baby can fit so many extra steps to narrative depths in it."
A fate worse than death? Try that one moment when you're trying to sleep but you're kept awake by all the embarrassing stuff you did in the past that you can't forget.
Forever.
When you want to die from cringe but you can’t.
So, just normal life?
Yeah, that works. Life is a fate worse than death.
Insomnia then.
or a SLIGHT ITCH OR BEING just- SLIGHTLY TO HOT- SLIGHTLY TO COLD- Or having a DRY mouth....
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!
There's a specific subset of Fates Worse Than Death that I feel you didn't give much coverage to, but is actually really important: *The Kid-Friendly Revenge Story.* A character who has their entire family slaughtered by the bad guy? Dark. However, a quest to defeat the guy who turned your entire family into stone statues because doing so will free that village from their fate? All the drama of a revenge story, but it makes your main character heroic along with a happy ending when it's over!
A happy ending, that is, until the fridge horror kicks in, when you realize that the hero, who has spent so much time questing and developing as a character, would then return to his town and his previous normal boring life, where no one has changed because they were all stone. And the hero tries to relate to his old friends, but both parties realize how much the hero has changed, and they don’t laugh about the same stuff anymore, or understand the references he makes. And the hero tries to make new friends, but they all only see him as the hero who saved the village, and don’t actually see him for who he is anymore. And the hero tries to live at home again, but after the freedom and peril of adventuring, milking cows and tilling soil just isn’t cutting it anymore. So the adventurer exiles himself from the town he saved, to find someplace new to live in, if there is such a place...
So Negima?
@@CrownofMischief I was thinking Conan The Adventurer, but I guess that works too.
@@Tustin2121 What your saying reminds me of the ending to the first fallout, just without the fate worse than death at the start of it
@@Tustin2121 just save more villages. Why stop at one? Maybe the hero's found their true calling.
Shout out to Kevin Smith’s Tusk, a body horror Fate Worse Than Death where the protagonist is surgically turned into a walrus and is so mentally scarred by the experience that he winds up living in a wildlife centre
... oh
I saw it with cousins when I was 8
I didn’t sleep for like a week
I literally haven't even seen the whole movie, just clips and summary, and I'm still deeply scarred. Viscerally upsetting.
Or even that he still possesses his human instincts and just left alone forever.
God that's a good movie fate
Achilles' "fate worse than death" was Patroclus dying
YEEET
God can you imagine how distraught you would be if your cousin and incredibly straight dude best friend died?
I would be heartbroken
@@ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo1758 **Internally screams.**
@@ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo1758 **cries in gay erasure**
@@ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo1758 *NOOOOO! NOT MY HETERO LIFE MATE SNUGGLE BUDDY!*
Steven Universe: "You guys punish your villains?"
Dragon Ball: I'm shocked too.
True
But also Steven Universe: you're not dead, now you're immortal! _have fun with that_
@@lemmetalkaboutthis Immortal, not *Unkillable*
@@kingarthurthe5th good point
.... But wow that's really heavy to think about
I saw more than one animatic of Lars straight up trying to kill himself, and not always succeeding bc he outlived all his loved ones
@@lemmetalkaboutthis He could probably just take his ship into a star...
But yeah it's kinda sad to think about it.
Though since his crew is all gems, he'll have someone to keep him company. Unlike spinel in the garden.
“Fates worse than death” like opening an OSP video that’s 27 seconds old and seeing 3 comments already, knowing most of them will be “haha first”
Yeesh. Nothing will get rid of the cringe.
YEET
Haha first
@@multiplayergamer5728 woah this guy just replied "yeet" to every comment
@@mn3702 maybe he's living his "worse than death" fate¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Frozen as an immobilized statue, still capable of thinking and feeling as they witnessed eternity roll by"
Christing hell...
@@11epicguy22 "Yo, Angelo"
@@ThroneOfSalt oh I meant *Kars stopped thinking*
Idk I just thought of Discord
Zargothrax
Mayuri from Bleach. I forget which fight, but it was during the Arrancar arc, where Chad and Ishida are getting kicked by some Scientist dude.
Mayuri shows up, does some badass shit, poisons the other guy so he experiences every agonizing second in hyper slow-time, slowly drives his sword through the other guy's hand into his heart, while doing a deep speech. Then slowly pulls it back out with "I'll be back later to stab you again"
Absolutely terrible.
I was half expecting when Red was explaining the “Body Horror Zone” to use Full Metal Alchemist.
I was surprised by the lack of references. Maybe it's because it was a Patreon request.
And the "unfixable" transformation bit - or is that what you meant, I was waiting for *that* scene. You know the one.
I was expecting WH40K but yeah, some of the stuff in fullmetal is pretty up there.
I'm just glad she didn't put in any AKIRA footage. That shit is not pretty either.
I was thinking more of junji itos horror stories
"And though he wished for death, he was unable to die. So eventually, he stopped thinking."
No treatment like the Kars treatment.
@@nathanblissett9470 Except Diavolo
I can think of a couple examples:
- Freezing in outer space
- Stranded at the bottom of a river
- Having your soul trapped in a doll
- Becoming fused with a rock
- Becoming fused with a book
- Dragged to hell by a thousand hands
- Being tormented by malevolent spirits and losing your mind
- People dancing while you’re being tortured
- Becoming a tortoise
- Being forced to relive different deaths over and over
- Eternal drowning in a lake
- Infinitely spun
- Slowly turning into stone
Gee, I wonder which show has all of these fates.
JOJO sure needs to be in OSP, because it's lack is such a waste.
Number 8 is by far the worst.
Chucky turned having your soul trapped in a doll into a fate as bad as death for everyone else
@Grant Parker *Coco Large*
Hermione Granger: Expulsion is a fate worse than death.
You needs to sort your priorities
All jokes aside Harry Potter has a perfect example of a fate worse than death for Voldemort
Instead of death death his soul fragments were so split apart and mutilated that he simply was trapped in limbo in agony forever
You got what you wanted voldy, you can’t die
Or being married to Ron Wesley
Hermione's Greatest Fear is being forcibly abandoned, and the way that's most commonly shone is through expulsion, since school is where all her friends live and where she's felt Belonging for the first time
It could very well be true in the Wizarding World. For example, if you get expelled your wand might get broken or you won't be l able to use magic outside of Hogwarts, then you will have no power, be forced to live a life like a muggle even though you have magical abilities. Scary
Being immortal, eating but never being sated, never being able to sleep.
Those three things to me alone are a fate worse than death, god forbid all three.
YEET
@Super Greyflash You will outlive everyone, and everything. You don't realise how quick a human life is until your life lasts forever.
Greeed from Kamen Rider
I’m sorry, did you mean HELL?
@Super Greyflash imagine everyone you love dying of old age and disease, imagine having to bury your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. Imagine losing all connection with humanity on an emotional and psychological level. Imagine being trapped on a world of the dying and the dead, while only YOU live. Being trapped in an existence of temporary consequences and temporary people, while you are forever.
What is that if not hell?
Fate worse than death: Being forever trapped in a room, with nothing but the TH-cam Trends to watch. The occasional good video will give you hope just to get punched in the gut once more.
Sounds like the christmas special punishment from black mirror
Stuck in a room for 4 million years unable to sleep listening to the same christmas song which gets loaded when you break the radio
Honestly, in modern days YT trending has kind of got it’s act together a bit more. As long as you can choose what you watch and don’t mind Minecraft videos, story time animations, and Mr Beast it’s honestly not that bad
Roll that rock up the hill. Sometimes get water from the queen of the underworld.
You monster
Every editor knows that hassle and apparently there’s a short story by borges on the theme called “the library of Babel”
"They typically end up with some kind of angst, righteous anger or a few sexy scars if the writer is into that."
I feel... very singled out by that last one
I get the feeling a lot of us did
Damn right. Feel very called out right now.
Paused the video right before this moment when i delved the comments, clicked play again when i saw this comment and was left with red saying the thing i just read
Actually, seeing this make me realize why Disney didnt air season 2 finale of Amphibia in the first place. They worry that Marcy death will scare the children and make the parents mad for what they see on tv, so insted they spoil the season 3 intro just to say "hey dont worry kids, Marcy still here. She just in coma, floating and tangel with wire of health support under the thirteen eye monster"...way to destroy of season 3 suspense for the cartoon theories people....
I was honestly surprised that they might have had the guts to stick a major character death in there. But no.
It's okay, kiddos, she's alive. Just in a comatose state barely clinging to life, in the possession of her former surrogate father figure who stabbed her in the back figuratively and literally, being forced to relive all her mistakes and the worst moments of her life over and over in her mind with no escape. Until of course, she is rescued and revived, and just when safety is tantalisingly within reach, it is ripped away again, and she is physically and emotionally tortured, her mind either broken or trapped inside the shell of a thirteen-eyed abomination ripped straight out of a HippoPotamus Lovecraft novel, as the being is essentially uploaded into her body to use it as a host as she screams in agony and terror until she can scream no more.
Yeah, much better.
@@applebee28 Just an example that kid shows can be deep, interesting, and traumatizing! :D
This episode has some intense final scenes. It might be scary for younger viewers.
How could we forget the classic "You may not die but all of your loved ones/friends and family sure will die muhahahahahahaha" fate worse than death
Chill morgoth bauglir.
I used that one for my own character. And during the story, it's still happening. The reason it's happening? None. What? You expected the world to be FAIR!?
I had that as my old OC's nightmare. Tried my best at 13yo to describe every single friend, family, acquaintance and mentor die in horribly painful and shocking ways.
At least the baby cousin happened quickly...
I was a very edgy 13yo.
Oh yea, my personal fav of that branch of fates worse than death is the ‘loved ones are now irreparably mentally broken’ type deal. You get so much angst it’s almost mind-blowing how much hurt you can pull from a character by just having them be alone with the shattered soul of their best friend, or friends if you really wanna get some catharsis out of it. Love interests invoke the most angst, followed by parents and teammates.
Diavolo: * sells drugs to kids *
Giorno: hmmmm so you have chosen infinite death
@@harvey9588 Drug bad
@@harvey9588 *Golden Wind starts playing*
And he didn’t even know that he did it.
That and trying to murder your own daughter...
@@RedDingo777 maybe the daughter thing the most
Nina in FMA(B) is one of the best examples of an effective “fate worse than death”
It's also a good example of fiction having an inordinate amount of bad dads
Like at that point I lowkey agree with scar killing her. I’ve read a lot of fix it fanfics about her post transmutation and legitimately the main thing they often do is make her unaware of her own monstrosity.
@@eldritchcupcakes3195
I kind of like how he calls Edward out on them not doing anything for her, and he just doesn't have a comeback for it and has to deflect by bringing up the Rockbells instead.
That's one thing I think was a little better in the original. At least in that version they try to keep her from being taken and experimented on before Scar finds her.
What happened to Nina in Fullmetal Alchemist is an example of using fate worse than death used for drama, but uniquely for the protagonist Elric brothers and not for Nina herself. It serves as a reminder for the Eric brothers of the horrors misuse of alchemist are and show them how powerless they were.
Oh my god Nina hurts my soul to look at
“Don't worry. Nobody dies in this story. They just get really big boo-boos....see, what did I tell ya?” - The Narrator, George of the Jungle
LUL
Self-awareness lets you get away with so much stuff it isn't even funny.
They're okay. Just in another dimension.
In the sequel, he literally reaches out, picks up the main villain, and takes him up to the sky, presumably to experience some horrible fate, as the other characters watch in fear. George of the Jungle is weird, man.
"Even the really dark, grim, and serious tropes that beg to be taken seriously are sometimes pretty basic bitches"
basically every anime ever
*stares in part 5's infinite death loop*
@@paulhage4059 Part 5 of what?
@@MayHugger I assume it's jojo
@@yooman6339 Mojo Jojo?
@@MayHugger I wish it was
7:02 Oof, that reminds me that there are actual people with chronic pain, fatigue and mental coma. I wonder how they feel with such scenes in films/books.
Same with people who experience anything that a character experiences in fiction.
A soldier with PTSD is likely going to respond in a similar fashion of a awakened coma patient. Of course it changes per person but still, the usual reaction is negative.
As someone with a lot of chronic diseases/disabilities (sorry to those who experience these things in other ways)... the sad reality is that you eventually just get used to them. Perhaps a lot of this stems from me having had them for pretty much my entire life (thus not really "knowing" an existence without them), but it's still a pretty interesting subject. I know a lot of public figures with various diseases/disabilities get a lot of "oh no, that must be so horrible to live with"-kind of sympathy (which I do too), but the interesting reality is that; "no, it really isn't". You simply adapt... some things become extra chores (like medication, etc.), others become acceptance that you aren't the same way as everyone else, but in the end, even the most "horrifying" things in the general populace's eyes will eventually just become a routine part of your life.
@@NuckElBerg I've had problems with my teeth for 6 years, coming from the fact that I grind them together when I sleep, so they have gotten chipped, cavities have formed and my gums have gotten infected a few times, so now that I see something happening to fictional characters' mouths, specifically their teeth it makes me cringe really, really hard
@@eVill420 yea i dont get triggered easily but one thing that makes me feel nervous is any scene of a kid being groomed, or anything related to assault. also any scene of someone screaming cuz their horse is bolting. cuz i know how all of it feels and it’s terrifying
There's a movie called Johnny Got His Gun about a WWI soldier hit by an artillery shell, losing his sight, speech, hearing and I believe losing his limbs as well. He's trapped inside of his body with an intact mind and memory. My mom went through something similar, she had a TBI and became paralyzed but her brain was mostly unaffected. Luckily she said her body somehow shielded her from being crystal clear aware of what was happening until she regained her speech and some movement, but I've always thought that would be a fate worse than death. Fun fact: the song "One" by Metallica is based on that movie.
The fate worse than death can be an amazing introspective tool for the audience. Regardless of the atrocities a villain has committed, it forces the viewer to really consider whether an eternity of punishment is appropriate for their crimes. There's been a lot of villains that I've ended up feeling sorry for because, even though they deserved punishment, eternal damnation seemed excessive for the crimes they committed.
People also usually forget eternity is longer than 100 years.
Good point-I was thinking of the opening of sandman in that context, eternal waking...
You can put a twist on this specific (sub?)trope: the [insert punishment here] can indeed be ended, but *only if the villain feels guilty for everything they’ve done.* The trick here is that they never will feel sorry for their actions, and will remain in limbo forever.
I agree death was too mercy in my opinion
“Did you learn nothing from Game of Thrones?” I’M WHEEZING-
The best book series I will never bother reading now that it's finished. I get enough depression from IRL politics, thank you very much.
The greatest mystery of life is how on Earth 4Kids wrote the book on intelligence-insulting censorship while AT THE EXACT SAME TIME produced the version of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that was so relentlessly brutal and dark that an episode had to be pulled from the air. Get yourself a studio that can do both, I guess...
Easy. Different people who happened to work for the same company. Companies aren’t like families. Obviously.
That one tmnt episode with the ice cream cat fusion.
If anyone has ever had a really bad depressive episode or any experience that has made them suicidal, that’s the trope fate worse than death irl. You are basically thinking that the pain you are going through is too awful to be worth surviving
Exactly. Its basically the worst emotional pain and the worst self hate imagineable for weeks without end. General public often just does not get how horrific it is
Well considering people do take to _physically harming themselves_ as an act to try and cope with the _excruciating mental pain_ I wonder why mainstream media hasn’t realized this yet
I'm not suicidal but a medically induced coma keeps sounding more and more appealing
Moreover, when someone with a depressive mood disorder commits suicide, it's not a "call for help," nor is it "looking for attention," it's a Last-Resort-Retaking-Control. I've put it like this: I'm going to make this emotional-chaos in my head stop even if I have to _bash in my own skull_ to do so. There's no thought of others, no thought of consequences, just "I.Will.Make.It.Stop."
Why yes, yes I have been there, why do you ask? 😉
(And yes, I'm doing better; it's been 29 years, and I've had treatment. The depressive mood disorder only came out of remission once since then.)
i have major depressive disorder with psychotic tendencies and it was brutal. i ended up drinking and spending a couple months in a psych ward. i’d never wish it on my worse enemies it’s like being a prisoner in your own mind and having a man whispering exactly what you don’t want to hear
"we can't have the kids think they're dead so let's have them writhe in agony!"
This is why I enjoy how One Piece has Luffy deal with villains. Oda (the creator) has gone on record as saying he likes it when the villian survives and gets to see everything they plotted for fall apart around them, most of the time literally.
Fates worse than death:
-College
-Mental health problems
-Fandom addictions to cope with mental health problems and college
So you'd rather die than:
- Work to increase your skillset and increase your chances of getting a well payed job, meanwhile making friends for life and partying
- Deal with mental problems and get out of them stronger
- Enjoy fictional universes which excite your imagination and expand your creativity
- Student debt that you probably won't be able to pay off
Don't threaten me with a good time
@@freddovich7925 it isn’t that they don’t want to or even that they don’t. It’s just it can feel impossible sometimes
@@freddovich7925 It. Was. A. Joke. 🙄
BTAS creators talked about how they were tasked with finding a fate worse than death for the joker's victims and thats how that horrifying smile from the laughing gas came around
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy: Lets blow up the Earth before we even roll the screen title.
I was looking exactly for this comment... Start the story off right lol
To quote Tolkien, "A cold voice answered: 'Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.'"
A Fate worse than a fate worse than death: being stuck in an infinite death loop.
Looking at you Diavolo…
4:50 "Villains die more often than heroes."
Diavolo:
He took the extra steps though let's be real here.
The first time I ever encounter the fate worse than death trope was in Avatar: The Last Airbender. When Azula sends Mai and Ty Lee to prison after they betray her. The way she says "Put them somewhere where they can rot." Made eight-year-old me realize "Oh there's something worse than just dying."
Slowly dying is torture
@@minera7595 living is slowly dying, so is living technically torture?
There's also Zhao when he's briefly shown in LoK.
@@themockingdragon135 he had it coming.
Fate worse than death in Warhammer 40k: The Dark Eldar. They take you, torture you, do all sorts of bad things to you. And when they're done with that, they're still not done with YOU. Instead they somehow keep you alive and body-horror turn you into... something. A trophy, a couch, a dresser, maybe a hat? But you're still alive and in pain when they turn you INTO whatever they selected for you.
Or, you know, you could be an Eldar and when you die you get to be Slaanesh's **toy** for all eternity.
Quick death with nothing after it is a blessing in Warhammer.
But still i'm taking my double barrel shotgun and start killing shit
Not only that but the Dark Eldar have means and knowledge on how to keep you alive for longer than if you were tortured regularly. This also mean you mentally don't break as easily experiencing the pain for longer before eventually being turned into furniture.
And then there's the Daemonculaba which is twisted in another way...
@@RallenCaptura Oh yeah... Adeptus Ridiculous covered that two weeks ago...
"So, for their insolence God decreed that neither Loki nor Bartleby would be ever allowed back into Paradise"
"Were they sent to Hell?"
"Worse, *_Wisconsin,_* for the _Entire Span of Human History_ and when the world ends they'll have to sit outside the gates for all eternity"
YEET
You're from Illinois, aren't you
or, even worse, sent to the parallel dimension in which the entire world is ohio, and has always been ohio to live out the rest of eternity
Love Dogma
@@firstname4097 There are deep ones buried in Ohio, let them rest off this eternity. They'll be more active next time around. for better and worse.
During the immortal/body horror/brain dead sections, all I could think of was Mitty from Made in Abyss. She really got the short end of the stick 😰
Ya. Thus why I will never watch that show. I’ve seen clips and it is only nightmare.
I was looking for this comment.
Yes. My God I stumbled on a clip by accident years ago and it haunts me still...
"I have no mouth, and I must scream."
YEET
@@multiplayergamer5728 Good job being here early. I got here before there were any likes, and I felt lonely.
“I have a very large mouth, and I scream frequently.”
So here's a funny story. When I was about 4 I walked in my dad watching The Matrix, specifically the scene where Neo gets taken in by the Agents, and they delete his mouth from existence and stick a mechanical bug in his belly button.
It scarred me for life and to this day I can't look at a character with no mouth without feeling squeamish.
Jokes on you i love being goo
I think one very good example of a Fate Worse Than Death is Hollowing from Dark Souls. You're undead and functionally immortal, but every time your body dies you lose your humanity, souls, and sanity, until you eventually become a mindless zombie known as a Hollow. To prevent from Hollowing, you must have a very strong resolve and you must set your mind to a goal, and one that's often impossible.
My Favorite fate worse than death is from the Justice League cartion, when Mordred lost his eternal youth, but kept his immortality, so he was stuck as little more than a barely living body for all of eternity. And this is a kids show
That episode of Justice League Unlimited is the one I remember the most.
So .... Winston's rat phobia from 1984 is on the "Dramatic But Fixable" end of the spectrum, Logan being experimented on by the Weapon X scientists is somewhere in the Unkillable territory with a splash of "Overwritten Brain" and Johnny Silverhand is riding the line somewhere between the "Overwritten Brain" and Unkillable .....aaaand I'm going to spend the rest of the day trying to put more characters on this spectrum now.
Good luck, I'll be expecting to see that post somewhere on reddit
Baldur's Gate 3 characters on the farthest nightmare fuel of becoming squid boys
‘Not many writers would really blow up the world’
Me: *already picturing the scene*
Jojo doesn't blow up but race to the end of the universe and starts it again
I've been toying with the idea any suggestions not blowing up earth so much as ending the universe as part of a cycle
**picturing the montage to the tune of Infernal Galop, the can-can song**
"The audience doesn't actually believe the story will destroy the world"
*Laughs in End of Evangelion*
*Laughs in Final Fantasy VI*
YEEEET
@@merrittanimation7721 it recovered
*Laughs in Devilman*
@@pn2294 Still
Yk I’m starting to realize how bad jojo villains have it, like the “become into a statue still capable of thinking and feeling watching eternity pass by” yup that was kars, “the pain zone” Kira, “time death loop” diavolo.
To me, the saddest “fate worse than death”s are tragedies based on the character’s arc; them becoming what they hate/fear the most, against/only because they tried to avoid that.
Just my take. Great video as always, Red!
Yeah those are the best.
One of my villains was forced to see horrific visions of the future that were bound to happen, felling all of them. And did they happen? Yes. All of them. That had left a permanent mark on him.
One of his deaths was by freezing his hands on a snowy mountain, with an exorbitant amount of wind and cold freezing him. What did he do you may ask? Burn both of his hands, leaving permanent scars on his hands. And why a snowy mountain you also may be asking yourself? He seen his dad sacrifice himself to stop an volcano eruption. And what did he feel after his dad burned in the fire? Cold. He felt cold.
After the visions gone away he made a promise to himself to not let that happen to anyone else. And how would he do it? By taking the spot of the person who forced him to be thru the horrible HORRIBLE visions. Now he's transformed himself into a copy of the one who destroyed him.
In my opinion if you going to do something super bad to a character, do it at the most horrible way possible.
Sorry for the big text wall.
Don’t apologize for the text wall! Your story sounds riveting, and I, too comment essays any chance I get. (My first comment was one of the few exceptions, lol.)
Oddly enough, I’m doing the ‘future vision travesty’ with one of my characters.
Short version:
The story builds up to the destruction a powerful city-“Elarion”-and how it ruined humanity’s future.
It’s set in the past of an actual show (“The Dragon Prince”), so the audience knows from the beginning this city will be destroyed. Even my story’s title-“The Fall of Elarion”-(Elarion being the doomed city) alludes to the ending.
A character (named Amiriah) is in the pit of her despair when she-after being forced to use a method in a fight that should’ve killed her-has a vision of a city she fights for burning, and her and her friends dying. She’s shaken up.
But her friend-Ruko, whom she’s helped rediscover hope, and who lost it along with Amiriah (during the war to defend that city, which is named “Elarion”) convinces her that it won’t happen unless they continue on their current path of despair-induced inaction.
They convince her it’s okay. That they’ll make it through this never ending war, if only they fight for the future they believe in, and embrace the pain and uncertainty on the road there. Amiriah agrees. She, Ruko, and the other fighters defend Elarion from a massive attack, only to lose and watch their hopes for a peaceful life in Elarion destroyed with the city.
They’re executed unceremoniously, and the people they fought for are forced into dangerous lands, where many die without aid of the magic the characters used to fight for them (and were punished for using).They eventually form their own society, but without the magic their ancestors used, their lives are riddled with famine and war.
Worst of all, the enemy teaches the fighters’ ancestors to hate those who use their magic, and the fighters and societies before the destruction of Elarion are forgotten. Everyone who fought and sacrificed for a future they knew they might never get to see, who had hope and struggled to retain it despite insurmountable odds-saw that hope destroyed, and in their final moments, knew they’d be forgotten, and what shreds of their legacy remained would be despised and weaponized against the very people they’d used it to protect.
Essentially, the fighters fought to help their people, and ended up being the reason for those people’s suffering.
And the main character knew this through future vision, but remained hopeful anyway, only for that hope to be the reason they were at Elarion and ended up executed, and the reason their people ended up exiled and suffering.
Amiriah (right) and Ruko (left) are actually the characters in my profile picture.
Let me know if you’re interested in the long version. There’s a lot more to this story than I’ve laid out here, and I’m pretty proud of it, but it’s pretty complicated.
@@Zephirite. I'm doing my story as a literal dance that's happening on the end of reality itself.
There's the "villain" Rose (a Rosit, a species that has flowers on their head that can control/negate magic and other special abilities) dancing with Absentia (the godness of existence and inexistence).
Every chapter of the story begins with a move they make. Did the characters get pushed away from the objective? Have Absentia disrupt the path that Rose was going to take with the song, forcing him to do what she wants.
Did the forces sent by Absentia trap themselves on the last chapter? Have Rose "throw away" (forgot the exact name of it on dancing) and catch her again.
The whole story is about Eda and King or Stella and Luno and the doomsday clock. Stella and Luno were two gods of the old worlds (Stella, Luno and Absentia), that were killed by the combination of their offspring (again forgot the word) Kal. they (because the two offsprings of them are still there) were the combination of Gael their daughter and Kian their son (the two aren't actually blood related, Luno and Stella literally robbed a lady, cloned her child and created the two).
After Stella and Luno died they reincarnated as popular couples of history like Romeo and Juliet (not the strange version of it), Rose and Jack from Titanic, etc. Until the reached the newest version of themselves, Eda and King.
These two were born as the doomsday clock announced that they only have 100 years to appreciate peace and love. They were born with marks on their bodies (giant circles with various patters on it) that could glow if they used the abilities of the species they were.
Eda is a Nectame, an species with completely white skin that excels at magic. She's also Stella (godness time itself) reincarnated in a new body, which means she can control time in a "small" spot (with the drawback that in a large scale she has less control of it and has the world worst headache).
King is a Mecta, an species with completely black skin that excels archery and a little bit on magic. He's also Luno (god of matter itself), which means he can control matter as he pleases (with the drawback that every time he does it he remembers every death of his reincarnations. You know, normal stuff.)
With time they would get a friend group of misfits. The most important of the group are Gaspar and Natasha, with these two in reality being Kian and Gael. As the old gods never put a limit as how old they could get before they died, they never actually died.
After a giant time (for now 5 books, all with almost 700 pages on each one) of reading the story they reach the objective since the beginning of their journey. The Emperor palace, the place were Rose Clawthorn resides in (yeah, the guy dancing every start of a new chapter). After almost killing him and his family he reveals what they are supposed to do, kill Absentia.
Now the interesting thing about her is that if she's killed, every thing stops existing. And does Rose know this? Yes. Yes he does.
After other 5 books they go in to battle Absentia. After the battle, the clock starts ticking down even faster.
79:30:20. 58:29:17. 30:49:50. 1:00:00. One hour. They have one hour to kill her and from what they know, stop her and the doomsday clock. Do they kill her? Yes. Does she die? Yesn't. She dies but returns. An then she dances with Rose as the clock ticks down.
30:00:00. 20:00:00. 20:00:00. 10:00:00. 1:00:00. Boom. Everything ends. The heroes lost.
Its one of my few stories were everything actually ends and stops existing. It's the most gruesome death to the story that I can imagine.
Just noticed know that the way I showed the countdown to zero of the doomsday clock counts to youtube as time markers for the video. Just don't touch them.
@@carlosrabock
Whoa, wait, you came up with all that?! Did you write all those seven hundred pages, or is that just your outline?
That sounds so cool and original, I love it. The end of existence and the theme of dance is really cool; I’m sure there are some great visuals to be had there.
Kinda reminds me of the video “Time lapse of the Future,” where everything is theorized to end with the last black hole evaporating and time becoming meaningless. (Really recommend that video-it’s here on TH-cam, and could give you ideas for story visuals about the end of existence.)
If you have a website or something for you story, I’d love to check it out!
A good example of a fate worse than death can be found in the show "Made in Abyss"
If you try to ascend after going too deep, you get turned into a shambling mound of flesh called a "Hollow". It's an extremely painful process, and the speed of the transformation depends entirely on the speed of your ascent
Oh man I actually read “I have no mouth and I must scream” recently and the ending is ~spicy~
YEEEET
That shit gave me an existential crisis for a looong time
Another episode of: "JoJo is great example of it, but not mentioned."
jojo is a good example of literally anything but doesn't get mentioned
That's the secret subtitle of this show
It's because if they mentioned it once they'd never be able to stop. The floodgates would be opened to every time JoJo was a good example
To be fair, it's mostly because Jojo covers such a broad spectrum of genres and characters that the only tropes it hasn't really touched on are ones specific to sci-fi and fantasy settings.
@@DolusVulpes I would even say better, JoJo showed how to make Urban Fantasy fun.
Fate worse than death: listening to your favorite song over and over again forever until you hate it
Red can you do the trope talk "outsmarting the trickster"?
YEET OMG YES
Did she do the trickster trope in general?
very good idea
I can already see the clip of Loki getting shocked.
My favorite example of a “kid-friendly” fate worthy than death is in the animated Batman show. Rather than killing folks, the Joker made their faces freeze in smiles, and basically go insane.
YOU CALL THAT *”KID FRIENDLY-?!”*
@@firefly5934 I mean, it was always cured before it became permanent in the show.
@@zoro115-s6b I know BUT STILL! Who in their right mind would show their kids that?!
@@firefly5934 Yea, that and just.. the joker in general were pretty unsettling. Weird how that sort of thing is fine but if you show so much as a drop of blood it has to be PG-13.
The Magnus Archives during The Change. Everyone being tortured with their worst fears, generally unable to die. Being tortured for what to them feels like an eternity and once the heros fix the world, they remember it. Some of the things they described were truly stomach turning
JoJo Diavolo's infinite death loop is pretty much one of the worst fates someone can have.
Yeah like Jesus Girono, I get that Diavolo was full on scum bag, but I think that a little too munch.
YEEET
@@starmaker75 Araki did say that Diavolo deserved it but yeah I do I have to agree just dying over and over again is a bit too far
@@multiplayergamer5728 Will you shut up, man? You've been saying yeet on every comment
@@DilbyMyBoy Giorno seems to know vaguely what's going on but his eyes were blacked out during the requiem scene and he himself never spoke. Given we were shown that a requiem stand can have a mind of its own with Chariot Requiem just prior, I'd say it was more GER's will than Giorno's conscious thought.
Also think of it this way; Diavolo skipping time means he skipped over plenty of times where he would've died had he not had power over time. In a way, he's just paying all those deaths back plus some.
I just keep imagining a personification of this trope showing up looking like a fancier version of the Grim Reaper, and angsting up the place only for Red to call him basic, and Death with extra steps, which has got to be a fate worse than death for a trope that only wants to be taken seriously.
and then Ramsey Snow shows up.... then the trope has a wonderful time being scarier than the Grim Reaper for a change
This makes me realize that Doctor Who does a lot of Fates Worse Than Death. Like, A LOT!!
Yeah...
'Sometime a character will have a fate worse than death back story!"
W E C A N T E X P E C T G O D T O D O A L L T H E W O R K
Somewhat surprised that Inigo Montoya hasn't been mentioned as much. He has multiple layers of fate worse than death. His father was killed unjustly, and when he took a stand for justice as a child, he received extreme humiliation. That's two whole layers of fate worse than death. Yet in his storytelling, he's honestly a really nice and pleasant person overall. His trauma and unpleasant experience has led him to have a strong sense of justice and honor. He won't do to others the things done to him, he doesn't want to allow others that same fate, he empathizes with people experiencing that extreme pain. This only changes when he's faced with his father's murderer, and he finally seeks out the catharsis of revenge, only realizing after that it's somewhat shallow.
Feeling ironic with this coming out the day after the TMA finally....
What is TMA?
Pain😩
YEET
Oh boy do you know it! (I’m in so much pain :) )
@@internetperson3436 The Magnus Archives a horror anthology podcast. They sponsored an episode of trope talk not too long ago if you want more info
Fate worse than death: Banishment to “The Island of Perpetual Tickling.”
I never in my life thought I would hear that again after elementary school. Thank you for this.
My own personal fate worse than death is if my mind goes... If I can't remember anything and I can't string thoughts together, I am not "me" anymore. I don't want to die, but if that happened to me I wouldn't want to live like that...
this hits hard when alzheimer’s runs in the family
A nice fun topic.
YEET
"Somewhere there's a man. He doesn't want to be where he is. There's no place he'd rather be less. This man is suffering.
But inevitably, he starts to get used to it. He becomes calm enough to distance himself from his pain, just a little.
"And without meaning to, he thinks of a place he'd rather be less. A place which can hurt him in ways he's not currently being hurt. Whether it's a few feet away or in another horrible universe, he's glad he's where he is, and not there. This is just a fleeting thought.
"But then he's there, and he'll stay there until he thinks of a place he'd rather be less.
"This man hurt people close to me. Just bear that in mind."
-Jack, Zebra Girl
that's sick. the bad kind of sick. literally worse than the villain you're fighting kind of sick.
That doesn't sound very heroic to me.
Made in Abyss has a pretty good example of fate worse than death.
I was thinking of that anime too, Jesus Christ that was fucked...
what happened? or what was it
Exactly what I was thinking coming into this
@@melodica_man0216 made in abyss is a manga/anime series that was set in a facinatingly well worldbuilt island that was mostly taken up by a massive hole in the ground "the abyss". the island used to be populated with a mysterious ancient culture that left hundreds of varied magical maguffin items littered through the abyss, that the current people go adventuring for. the only two problems is
1. the abyss is absolutely FUCKED dangerous with weird creatures and 2. theres the "curse of the abyss". the curse makes you able to go DOWN into the abyss, but if you try to go up youll have all these terrible side effects. upper layers you just get sick, but it gets worse until its like, internal bleeding and hallucinations AND WORSE. theres no real way for me to describe...
the story follows the story of a little girl and her friends that attempt to find the girl's mother at the bottom the abyss.
@@sarahackroyd2150 jesus christ
Steven Universe actually showcased a fate in this category. Members of the gem empire who were unruly were then shattered and these people were still sentient. The shards of their gems would form into limbs and try to blind search for the other shards of their gem.
Probably wished they were dead after the ones who did it got off with a “no U”
This reminds me of bleach when Captain Mayuri fought the Octava Espada Szayelaporro Granz
Dude injexted granz with a superhuman drug that made him percieve things slower but to a ridiculous high degree. While Mayuri was talking to him and explaining the drugs for a few seconds for him it was hundreds of years.
And then when Mayuri pluged his sword into his heart. he was literally begging for it go faster.
That scene made me realize the dude was no joke and pretty fucking twisted
thinking back on it now he was probably experiencing the pain of a sword stabbing your heart for thousands of years
A fate worse than death: being early to an osp video but having to wait until you’re done with school!
YEEEET
Me: I wonder how Red is doing after the end of The Magnus Archives. After all, she's the one who introduced me to that world
Red: Fate Worse Than Death
Me: Sounds about right.
We are all in the universe of suffering right now, you know that
Red: Writers have come up with all sorts of fates worse than death!- the sadists.
Me: *laughs maniacally* why thank you
I, too, was flattered by that compliment.
@@pRahvi0 me too!
I have a few grim fates that come to mind from a couple of my favorite series. In His Dark Materials, you have Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter falling into the void where they will literally be falling forever, even after they die, and then you have Lord Voldemort in Harry Potter, where his damaged soul basically winds up trapped for all eternity in limbo.
JoJo: becoming the ultimate being to exist then getting launched into space and freezing up almost instantly and then stop thinking entirely
One thing i like is a situation that has been brought up in SCP. The "End of Death" scenario. One day, death just... Doesnt happen anymore. People still get hurt, get injured and crippled, but their brain can never stop functioning. So this puts the entirety of society in collapse, as no one can die anymore. And another thing i like is the SCP 2718, "What Happens after". Which is essentially death that is worse than death. The soul stays inside the body and it feels anything that is done to it, constantly increasing the levels of pain up to a point where it is inconcievably painful. Both are equally horrifying! And i havent slept for days after reading both!
That reminds me a bit of Elantris by Brandon Sanderson. It's been a while since I read it, but some of the characters are (initially) stuck unable to heal or die, feeling the cumulative pain from all their injuries until they lose their minds. Fun times! But yeah, definitely an interesting fate worse than death.
Wandavision Spoilers:
Wanda: Realizing trapping people in a reality to see her family is bad
Also Wanda: I shall forever trap you in your own body because you thought I can't handle my magic
That shit fucking horrified me
If you’re a sucker for stories revolving around a Fate Worse Than Death-
Go watch/read Land of the Lustrous
You won’t be disappointed
"Have a happy 10,000 years."
I remember when I first found out about it and I thought “Oh, this is cute! I like it!” And then it just escalated into a downward spiral of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@Trash can you not
can you summary please so I don’t have to go to a mental ward pls
@@richardgibson8403 Starts out as cute rock people having fun and fighting stuff and ends up with genocide and suffering
@Trash can you not
so edgy Kirby?