oof ouch ow my website Soooo the comic site is working intermittently because of the sudden explosion of traffic. There's nothing wrong on the webmaster side (which unfortunately means there's nothing for me to fix) so it should clear up as things slow down. But you'd like to read it now, I'm mirroring it onto the comic tumblr starting here: comicaurora.tumblr.com/post/654546833938497537/intro-ch1-p1-7 Have fun! -R
Haha just like the Houseki no Kuni hiatus. It's been going on for so long people are joking that Ichikawa-sensei's actually gonna wait the 10,000 years. I'm in pain-
"The one unspoken rule of story pacing is no-one ever poops" "Lies, you forget that toilets can be a brilliant way to introduce villains," said Araki, ensuring the Polnareff will never feel safe in a bathroom again.
I see Red is sponsoring herself this time. I like to imagine she role-played the entire thing like an agreement between mafiosos: "You got the money, Comic Red?" "My money is your money, OSP Red."
I do that all the time... that's why I'm not good at characterization or character development... My stories are pretty much "what if someone put a Jurassic World-style ressort on an island full of aliens?" Or "what if Jules Verne was a timetraveler doing a get-rich-fast scheme and a lot of sci-fi writers thorough the XX Century where travelers attempting the same scheme with increasingly less and less accuracy due to editorial mandate ('a connected network of computers people use to share photos of their breakfast? Nosense! Change that for holographic phone calls, it would be more beliable that way!')".... I'm a bad writer, is my point
@@Mario_Angel_Medina Bruh, putting aspects of yourself into characters is HOW you do good characterization. Your characters emotions will always feel their most real when you're writing about things you yourself have experienced, or at least drawing a comparison between what you've gone through and what the character is going through.
honestly, the entire Dragon Ball franchise becomes a lot funnier if you assume Goku spends a lot of his non-fighting interactions just fucking with people by pretending he's a complete moron.
Tbh the whole thing was a mistranslation of a joke on the english sides fault lmao The whole joke was just that goku was confused on the concept of birdfeeding food to someone Vegeta thought he was talking about kissing and said its normal Thus goku thinks vegeta is some weirdo who birdfeeds his wife food 💀 Goku and vegeta aren’t the best people, parents or partners and do get flanderized a ton. But if we’re going to talk about that, we should at least use the examples that are actually true and not things that are the fault of faulty translations. While i believed it too for a time; its kinda weird that western fans truly took that and ran with the idea that goku never kissed his wife when he literally has 2 kids 💀
The Paul Rudd and to a lesser extent Keanu comments are very on point here. Of course Keanu doesn't really need a surname any more, he's a bit like Cher or Bono in that regard.
"Time skips shouldn't move the story backwards" Star Wars Sequel trilogy be like "Oh, you defeated the Empire and saved the galaxy?" *uno reverse card*
Man, how I hate those sequels... They make me feel like I fought for nothing. Also, if they so easily erased the victory of the OT and made everyone a failure, it doesn't makes me trust the ending of the sequels because I know they could just as easily erase that victory and make them all failures. And that feels so pessimistic, which is the opposite of how Star Wars should make you feel.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi For real. Luke's character just undid everything he stood for. One of the biggest themes in the OT was how there can always be good in evil. Luke watched as his father turned back to the light after being this horrible overlord. Then he senses some darkness in one student, and his first instinct is to kill him? What???
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi If anything, the ending of the sequels is even more fragile since they technically never actually beat the First Order. The just knock out Palpatine & his superweapon of the week, yet the rest of the First Order was apparently strong enough to topple the New Republic without his help.
@@hungrypenguin1560 Not only that- but he senses darkness in his NEPHEW and his first thought isn’t “Oh- why don’t I go tell his scary-powerful mom and good-and-charismatic dad?” And is just “DEATH MURDER NO!”
@@thehistoryandbooknerd8979 not sure about John Travolta, but Tywin was confronted by one of his sons (someone who he tried to get executed and then slept with his girlfriend) culminating in the aforementioned son killing him with a crossbow.
No one ever poops - unless it's somehow plot relevant, really, which in most cases will mean them getting attacked while on the toilet. I remember this one scene from a movie my dad was watching at one point where I just kinda checked in to see what the movie was about and a woman was killed by a spider robot while on the toilet.
The fact that so many people started using your comic website that it actually ceased functioning properly is perfectly described by the phrase “Mission failed successfully”.
Obviously, this video came out before Arcane dropped, but I think that's a perfect example of a timeskip. Characters are older and more confident in who they are, and the status quo has shifted, but the world remains recognizable. We also get Vi's point of view, who both aged with the skip, but was locked out of important shitTM for it's duration. She didn't change, and now she has to adjust to the world that did. The entire show is just *chef kiss* so good
It's also notable that the very first character we see after the timeskip, and the speaker of the very first lines, is Heimerdinger, the one character who hasn't changed at all (because what's a few years to someone who's lived for centuries?) So we get a big dose or reassuring stability before we get to any the jarring changes.
It was also a really short time in the pre-skip era. There isn't enough time to get really attached to any element of the status quo. Just be engaged with the events that changed it
A good story can fill this in with flashbacks or spinoffs. A bad one won't bother. ....Some *really* bad ones seem to skip over all the interesting shit and only show the stuff that would normally get cut.
@@Talisguy A good story wouldnt use flashbacks to tel important plot that it originally skipped over. Unless of course its a murder mystery or the like that *has* to skip over time to make it a mystery.
@@SneakyDevil I'm thinking mainly of shared universes and franchises here, admittedly. Sometimes you spot something a previous work skipped over that could make a good work in its own right, and get the chance to correct this.
Reading Aurora has really made me notice how conditioned I've become to the romantic tropes, as a fellow Ace umbrella user, that when any characters were expressing platonic physical contact part of my brain jumped into "aight, I guess that's the couple, I bet the next panel will have them blush or smthng" and I was happily mistaken. I love that the characters can express genuine explicit concern about each other and not have any "no homo, bro" or * romantic intimate scene/staring* Can we have this for more stuff?
I’m already calling it Kendal = ace icon And the fact that Erin referred to Tess as his sister refreshingly seems to avoid the whole “childhood friends fall in love” pitfall
... I mean, I'm okay with no romantic subplots, but *damn* Alinua and Kendal are REALLY CUTE TOGETHER. They have winning chemistry, lovely designs, and a history. While I don't mind them being friends, I will still ship the two of them to death.
@@wizardanerik Wait, what? Are you mixing up shows or did you somehow miss the last five years of incels complaining about Yang's boobs getting ever so slightly smaller in the change to Maya?
"I made you like these characters and got you invested in their relationship, so now I'm going to have them both act like complete jerks in a completely out of character way that ruins their relationship, all for the sake of drama." -99% of writers for some reason.
Tomoko-chan S1: "But one thing we all know is that we'll always be friends forever, and nothing will ever change th-" Tomoko-chan S2: "Everything's changed. It's been three years since since Refidrgerator-senpai killed Lamp-senpai and left our village. My outfit is now black, because things are serious business now, Chairem Anime: *Sofa-Den*. WE'RE GROWNUPS NOW!"
I legit want a major plot point to happen unexpectedly while a character is on the pot, and they have to scramble to get out and doing whatever, in the process making some hard choices about expediency vs dignity and hygiene.
I really like the soft time skips that give the characters some happy times. The victories don't feel earned if there's a new one popping up right away every time.
Now that I think about it, Fairy tail's timeskips are bad. The first one with the Tree was out of nowhere. Except for Zeref and Acnologia, there weren't any enemies that are shown to be far stronger than them to give the readers a heads up. Also, when the main characters travel forward in time to see they are outclassed, it was a good narrative, until they made the team had their own timeskip too, so now the part where everyone but them got stronger lost its impact, when we have no idea how strong the main character is now. Aside from that, no character development happened during the timeskip. There was also another timeskip where it resets everything else again to make the main characters stronger than every side character that was introduced before so that they can suddenly introduce the cheatcode villains after without any foreshadowing.
Same. In fact, "nothing has actually changed" is what made me drop FT after the timeskip... wait a minute, "timeskipS"? There were more after the 7 year one? Man, the more I learn about FT the more I feel like I was right for dropping it.
@@mateusrp1994 after the tournament arc there is a year time skip which I do think was much better because the characters actually went around and did shit, like Natsu went and trained, Gray went undercover, and Juvia lived with Gray for a year before he went undercover without her knowage so she went depressed, not sure on the top of my head if there is another but the seven year one I think was made purely so they can bring characters like Jellal and Ultear to be active while keeping the main cast the same
Ok these trope talks are absolutely saving my life. I was just about to write an 10 year time skip in a story of mine and thanks to this I noticed some VERY important mistakes i would have made. Thanks to you I can fix them and improve my story!
There’s really no way of being sure if a trope will be well or poorly received ahead of time. That’s why test audiences are so important. I can’t quite explain why I like a trope in some works and am frustrated with it in others. I think pacing and delivery are the key, but that can be totally subjective depending on the reader.
@@ConnanTheCivilized I am convinced it is all about delivery. That is, what are you delivering? One story is about a dad that dies, so his son goes to get vengeance for him. Another is about a dad that dies, so his son joins the rebellion forces that oppose the force that did the murder. Both have a time skip after the catalyst moment in the story. Pointedly, I find that the former accomplishes it better than the latter, mostly because of the necessity of said timeskip. Naruto, for example, accomplishes it very poorly. Everything comes to a standstill, every other character accomplishes great feats of increase, and yet our main hero has little to no change to show for it. Whatever he did before,he does better, only so that the audience doesn't feel lost. You're supposed to change, but if you change too much with no feasible explanation, you lose the audience. Which brings us to the other point, a character with no prior knowledge of the opposition and no ability to fight them has a much greater necessity for a time skip. Either way, time facilitates change, but should never facilitate utter destruction of character or goals.
You could do a whole episode on just downtime. Like, the refreshing moments where we see how the characters act when the plot isn’t happening. The dwarves just feasting at Bilbo’s place was arguably the best part of the first Hobbit movie.
Downtime is crucial if you want your characters to seem human. It's hard to fully connect to a character we only ever see going from one catastrophe to the next, and reminding us that these characters have lives reminds us of the stakes when they're in danger.
“Put everything back” was sort of Jack’s goal before the 50 year time skip. The time skip in the final arc of Samurai Jack was brilliant in my opinion. Because it not only raises the stakes, but it a way connects you more with the story insofar as viewers will have been away from this universe for a long time too ... and thus a dramatic time has passed for it as well while we looked away
Today on Trop Talks that could have used JoJo as a perfect example. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is a dynastic tale of the Joestar lineage. The first part takes place mostly in 1888, featuring Jonathan Joestar. The second takes place 50 years later in 1938, featuring Jonathan's grandson Joseph Joestar. Part 3 is again, 50 years later in 1988/1989, with the main character being Joseph's grandson Jotaro Kujo, but also featuring old man Joseph as well. Part 4 this time is now only 10 years later in 1999, main character being Josuke Higashikata, Joseph's illegitimate son, featuring supporting roles from both Jotaro and Joseph. Part 5 is self contained, taking place in in just 2001, with the main character being Giorno Giovanna (GioGio), which is offspring of Jonathan's body while it was under the control of Dio Brando, the main antagonist of the series, hence the Gio Gio being JoJo and Dio. Part 5 also does feature a lot of cameo and minor roles for returning characters of the series but for the most part is entirely its own thing. Part 6 takes place in 2011 featuring Jotaro's daughter Jolyne Cujoh, with Jotaro in another supporting role. As you can infer, there are a lot of time skips in this series. A dynastic tale stretching over 2 centuries is bound to do that. The most iconic character change in JoJo has to be Joseph. Going from primary to secondary character to tertiary was interesting. He goes from cocky bisexual teen to adventurous/playful badass old man to deteriorating but caring old man with many regrets. Skipping the same character ahead 50 years and then 10 years means you have to create 3 different characterisations and yet they did exactly that.
@Myles Jotaro is Araki's favourite of his characters. Being based on westerns, specifically Clint Eastwood's characters, Jotaro already has a rather well established archetype, a proved success. Jotaro also existed in the modern day, Araki started writing JoJo in 1987 and wrote Part 3 in 1989-1992 (Part 3 was set in 1988/1989). This was somewhat seen as the climax of a series that started its time 100 years in the past and worked its way to the present. This has quite a lot of significance as Araki didn't want to tell a sci-fi story, so he kept things to the future but in a way that was close. So 1999, 2001, 2011. His goal was to write stories that still take place in our world but occasionally blunders still happened, for instance, JoJo's 2001 Italy still uses Lira and not Euros. Regardless, these smaller timeskips meant that Jotaro was still a viable living character to include in stories. Jotaro was a mixture of right place right time and good writing (as much as he is a Mary Sue in a sense), so he had all the ingredients he needed for being the face of the series. (That's all disregarding his face as the soft reboot character into the stand era.)
Red is best because she knows we going to binge their comic so they made sure to give us enough backlog without telling us so we don't fear missing out
Yes, a pro-gamer move. Imagine if she'd started the comic, plastering previews everywhere and talking about it non-stop... only to get bored with it or write herself into a corner, and end the thing three chapters in. I've read too many webcomics where the artist stops updating before even properly introducing everyone on the cast page.
I read it all yesterday I’m already all the way caught up and have some personal spoiler-y theories Soul is the eighth element and comes from the white dragon who actually IS real, Adamantine could be pure concentrated soul The white dragon could’ve somehow split apart and became the six primordials or gave up it’s power to them
I will think about that once it uncrashes, since it crashed before I could see it (also unrelated, autocorrect thought I was trying to say undresses instead of uncrashes, which just made me think of the prince Lindworm story)
I recently read a webcomic called “Hooky” and there is a really well handled timeskip in the middle. The story is I think comparable with ATLA in how the story always feels on track (and the progression of seriousness). The first part of the story ends with one protagonist thinking something really really bad happened to someone they love, while we, and some other characters, know that there was a body double and the loved one is fine, and leaves to go find and rescue aforementioned protagonist. So then when we come back for part two, it turns out that loved one just disappeared, we have no idea what happened to them and because of this, protagonist has believably fell into the “evil monarch” position that a prophecy foretold, even though for almost all of part one, it seemed impossible for that to happen. Both loved one and protagonist have not really changed since what happened immediately after part one ended, except now they’re older, while the rest of the cast has believably gone further along the character arcs from part one, and are fully recognizable (but not exactly the same). The ending is also really good and gives a further explanation to how protagonist became capable of doing really bad things, and it makes total sense and you can tell it was all planned out in advance. 11/10 go read it (it’s on webtoon but after the first 21 episodes you only get to read two more a day or you can buy access to parts if you’re impatient)
i totally read hooky too!!!! it was awesome. the way they pulled that twist with the prophecy that doubles as a plot twist and reframes the entirety of the comic AND- changes the story and a massive character as we know it AND- does it all with it making sense and flowing well?? fuckin' awesome
I never understood why hooky never took off, it was very well written but i think due to the fact that the author isnt american or korean that the story didnt really get more promotion
"... and a look at what happens when I try to draw people with actual noses." Wait. WAIT! This entire time, none of your drawings have had noses? What!? Give me a bit to go process the fact that I haven't noticed the lack of noses the entire time I've followed this channel, and to go read Aurora.
I haven't seen the comic yet, but I gotta admit, the sudden noses thing preemptively scares one corner of my brain. (Edit: I have seen the noses, and they are good. Nosephobia averted.)
I think the most effective use of time skips I've seen is with JoJo's. The time skip is used to build an entirely new story, so the payoff of the season before isn't spoiled, the characters have some downtime to grow older and maybe return as part of the next main crew while not being the main characters and the disconnect of the time skip is well worth it because you're getting to know a whole new cast of characters instead of only having to reconnect with the old one
Arguably _Arrival_ subverts this, since it isn't obvious that the MC isn't seeing linear all along until near the end, and so confabulates past and future memories until she figures it out and it all falls into place for her and the audience.
Memento as well. Since the narrator has a form of amnesia where they can't hold long term memories, and the story plays from the last scene to the first.
I ask around, cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers. Very! This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read', but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general want to convince more children to write Stories and become Baby-Level-Authors, i now ask around. Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok? I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
Kinda wish she'd mentioned Samurai Jack's time skip, but that's just me doing a fanboy nitpick. This was a great breakdown of how time skips are used, and actually put into words why I lost interest in the second half of Young Justice... I never really connected the reasons why I stopped watching it before now.
I read a summary of Young Justice season 2 and it completely killed my interest in watching it from how jarring it was. Watching this video would have done the same, if I hadn't read that summary years ago already.
@@NaviRyan I mean, it basically did, until fan outcry resurrected it years later. Which, i haven't seen either because i don't want to pay for whatever the dc streaming service is called, and feel the need to watch the previous two seasons to catch up... But the second season just completely lost my interest, so i have little motivation to watch it...
@@AskMia411 I thought it was originally canceled because of something about having a larger female audience which was something Warner Bros didn’t want. Also I get that not liking the changes season had I hated that Kid Flash was killed off but I don’t think it was so bad that it killed it.
Honestly, I think one of my favorite handling of timeskips would be Fire Emblem Three Houses. To be honnest, it checks so many boxes on the video's list I am genuinely surprised it wasn't mentionned.
It says something that the FE fandom wasn't too hyped for 3H's high school story but then went into hype overload after it was revealed that there was a time skip into am era of war where the students were adults.
@@Percival917 It makes sense too. Time skips, when handled well, are such a great way to see characters come into their own and grow as people. You spend such a long time in Part 1 with these students and it's genuinely so great to be able to see how they've changed and how the consequences of the war has impacted their personal and emotional lives post the time skip. It can fall pretty flat if not handled right, but it is a great way to draw in your audience when properly executed.
I love how in The Order of the Stick, the goofy yet genre savvy bard turns up post-time skip wearing an eyepatch, only for the leader to yell at him to take it off. His eye is fine, but that's just what you *do* after a time skip.
I think the thing that makes One Piece's timeskip so great is that it almost feels more like a time jum because of how it is set up. For context the events the lead up to the final event of the time skip start ****122 Episodes*** before the skip happens. Our lead protagonist is separated from his friends and is forced to make hard choices about attempting to reunite with them or save someone very close to him, and he choices to try and save them in hopes that his friends will be able to take care of themselves. Then the majority of the next 122 episodes are focused on this solo adventure, where the lead meets new friends and foes, while constantly realizing that despite all his strength he isn't independently strong enough to save the people he cares about. While this is happening there are a dozen or so episodes that step away from the main storyline to focus in on the crew and where they are. And it turns out each of them has ended up in a place that is perfectly fit to challenge them in their weaknesses and to better them in their strengths. It finally hit the climax with the lead suffering extreme physical and emotional damage. So instead of rushing into another failure and risking losing his friend all over again the lead sends a message out to them. "Wait, for me. Train, get stronger. I'll be there to see you" without saying a single word to each of them. THEN finally the timeskip happens. In reference to the video it'd be like watching someone wake up, see that their clock is broken, their shirt is torn, and all the milk is run out. They'd say something like "I need to head out today" and then the next time you see them the clock is replaced, the shirt has a patch and the fridge has a new jug of milk. It doesn't feel like we lost anything from the skip because we already understand what is happening before it hits. Just gonna do a pre:EDIT: this is just my own thoughts and opinions please be kind to each other
@@jonnjones8263 Dragon is luffy’s father and Gol. D roger is Ace’s father The mermaid princess is actually the ancient weapon Poseidon Ace dies Sabo is still alive There’s a person who rules the five elders and occupies the empty throne named Imu Whitebeard dies and Blackbeard somehow gets his devil fruit power (so he for some reason can have two powers) Momo is a time traveller from the past Kaido’s devil fruit is a dragon Zoan Courtesy of your not-so-friendly neighborhood wikisurfer
The way Avengers Endgame seemed to arbitrarily insist on using time travel to bring everyone back but also imposing a time skip that didn't get undone (because Tony has a daughter who is entirely there to stand in for the ethical dilemma of undoing the five years they didn't need to have skipped) was a little frustrating, but I feel better about it seeing how they're actually exploring the world consequences of having half the world traumatized by losing their loved ones and then getting them back and the other half traumatized by suddenly finding themselves in a world where five years passed without them and everything changed.
Agreed, although I'm ever-so-slightly disappointed they didn't spend more time between the two, with characters having to deal with the world half-empty. Seemed a good opportunity to have previously supporting characters come to the fore or introduce new ones. You could have whole character arcs about 'filling the holes left behind'.
They haven't undone because that's not how time travel works on the MCU, haven't you heard the Baby Thanos talk from War Machine and Hulk, even If they wanted change the present they can't.
@@Gabe600 That rule is a writing decision they made, not one they HAD to make. It was a choice. And the way the baby thanos war machine talk was done completely botched the explanation of how it actually worked. And it's not even consistent, with grandpa America being a gigantic plot hole! DbzA did a better explaination of multi verse theory time travel and keeping it consistent, and its a freaking PARODY! I'm not getting fired up at you, just to be clear, i just REALLY hate the writing of endgame. It's lazy "Character development" and refusal to explore any other plot besides "time travel fixes everything" is horrendous writing. It doesn't build on any of the infinity stone lore previously established in the mcu, or even in INFINITY WAR, which they wrote as part one of two directly connected films!!!! And so many people do things that are completely out of character and make no sense. Omg, sorry, i just REALLY hate that movie, it killed my interest in the mcu. I want to get into the Disney plus shows, but new mcu stuff reminds me of endgame and i just get upset again
The time skip and badly written time travel literally killed my enjoyment of the mcu. From a writing standpoint it is just SUCH an unnecessary MESS! Just pick up where you left off in Infinity war, don't have a time skip, and have the avengers try to figure out how to fight a fully powered thanos! But no, they had thanos use the infinity stones to destroy themselves (which IMHO shouldn't even be possible. The movies are established that they're at least partially sentient, they protect themselves) by reducing them down to atoms--something that in the movie released directly before endgame, ant-man and the wasp, shows several characters going smaller than atoms as part of the freaking plot!!!! I thought for sure, in the theater opening night, that they would solve the problem by using the Pym particle stuff to go and FIND the infinity stones. Oooh i need to stop. Sorry for the multiple rants in the comments, the writing of endgame infuriates me
@@AskMia411 that honestly sounds like a better plot. i think part of the reason they did the time skip thing was to also have the loki show since they know Tom Hiddleson brings in serious merch money and wanted his main story death to matter but also have him do things in future projects.
Fire Emblem's done this a few times, and almost every time it's a different variety. There's been a few sequels where a new/returning threat pops up (Archanea) or we turn to a different perspective (Tellius). But the two most notable would probably be in Genealogy of the Holy War and Three Houses. The former is broken into two distinct generations with about a 15 year gap between them. And it's pretty well justified since your previous party was almost entirely incinerated after your seeming big triumph. Then the kids of those guys have to grow up until they're ready to save the world from the new evil empire that you unwittingly laid the groundwork for. Huge changes, new cast of characters, basically starting fresh (except for all these kids getting their parents' equipment...somehow). Three Houses is a little less dramatic. War breaks out, and your avatar is basically put in a coma for a few years. During that time, one of two things happen depending on if you're siding with Edelgard or not: Either fuck all and the war has turned into a stalemate, or Edelgard's made huge strides. Ironically, she's much closer to uniting Fodlan when you're not on her side. Either way, all the students are aged up with new designs, the music is more somber, and everyone goes through a little bit of character development. Things probably could have been explored without the timeskip in 3H, but the aspect of a 3-way war after a 5-year gap was a big marketing point.
This type genre MUST have a really good cast of characters or it's going really boring and bland, looking at you sword art online, fairy tale, every generic isekai anime
@Tom Ffrench I always thought the most obvious example of Code Geass being a narrative mess was the... Euphemia Incident near the end of season 1 (you've seen the show, so you hopefully know what I'm referring to), as that was probably the worst thing I had ever seen on TV (and I watched Code Geass for the first time in the same year that season 8 of Game of Thrones released). But having a timeskip after a cliffhanger probably comes as a close second.
I think my favorite version of a time skip is when a cartoon series has a massive time skip at or after the ending of the series in order to do a sort epilogue as to where the characters are and what the world looks like. Adventure Time did this, Regular Show did this, and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic did this. Of them all, the mlp one was definitely my favorite. The entire last episode of the show was dedicated to the time skip and one of the most important lessons of the show. Not only that, but the time skip in the last episode felt WAY more natural then any other time skip I’ve ever seen. See, mlp did a fantastic job at developing its characters over the course of the show. Every major and even a lot of minor characters had pretty easily understandable and expected trajectories for their lives (Rainbow Dash had already achieved her dream of being a wonderbolt, Rarity had slowly but diligently created a fashion empire, and Twilight had been crowned an Equestrian Princess and had successfully forged alliances with pretty much all of the other powerful kingdoms of their world). Before the time skip, every character had either already achieved their dream/purpose in life or they were on track to doing so. The Time Skip was mostly used to show how much better the world ended up becoming as a result of the heros and just reinforcing their “happily ever after”. It was so strange, even though many years if not decades had past and many things about the world had changed drastically, you never felt for even a moment like you were disconnected from the world and the characters. All of the change and progress of the world felt completely natural, welcomed, and even a little expected based off of everything the show had created and built up for itself. To this day, the time skip at the end of mlp remains the only time skip I’ve ever seen to perfectly invoke the spirit and promise of what lead up to it. I know Red will probably never watch mlp:fim, but I do believe that there is a lot of things that the show did fantastically. There’s a reason why so many people did and still do love this cartoon.
I completely agree. The characterization in mlp truly makes me feel like I knew these characters inside and out as friends, so everything tracked in the end.
I ask around, cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers. Very! I want to teach some real small babys to write stuff. Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok? I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
@@Nobody-pv9jt If you know enough artists, you can find multiple people with very similar styles, even if those styles are overall rare or distinctive. So seeing a style I think I recognize doesn't automatically make me think "Ah, it's this person!"
@@Nobody-pv9jt It’s also worth noting that Red’s sketches in OSP are usually intermittent snarky snapshots of what’s being described, jumping immediately from one gag to another. Aurora on the other hand has actual continuity, plot beats, drama, and so on. Even knowing she drew it, it took a bit of adjustment, and even the sense of humor FEELS a bit different in the different format.
@@flamingpi2245 As I stated a year ago, I am a clueless nerd, and I know enough artists that I might know a handful of people with similar "distinctive" art styles.
@@ThomasOwOD , Titans went from Giant nude people to being NAZI experiments in the Attack on Titan timeskip; Eren went from being the main hero of the story to being the villain in the timeskip, and it seems that the only badass fighter that’s not a Titans shifter that’s badass in the pre-timeskip era of Attack on Titan and the post-timeskip era is Levi.
Red: I've been working on this comic for years. Me: So THAT'S why you haven't had the time for making Journey to the West videos! Absolutely no ill will, I'm glad you've been working on your web-comic and more of your sense of humor is always a plus in my eyes. Can't wait to read it myself.
Now, I got it. Aurora was basically peak, "Fine, I'll do it myself." Well I gotta say, it's far better than what I could achieve. Not that I can't draw for shit, I can; but to quote Steve Miller time keeps on slipping into the future if ya get my drift.
I noticed that in alot of YA Fantasy, especially post-Game of Thrones popularity. Everythings just so dark, serious and edgy from the start. Part of the reason Harry Potter grew on people.and became so memorable is before it became serious and dark, it began as this fun childhood adventure and escapism is this hidden wonderful world! ( Granted, part of me wished it consistenly stuck to that tone for thr whole series 😅)
The best classical literary time skip is The Count of Monte Cristo. Without spoiling it, the main character time skips entire years before a change in viewpoint where the offspring of those we knew pretimeskip and see the main character from what he's become after the time skip. The book handles the time skip perfectly and uses it to its advantage. The best time skip I've seen in anime would probably be Initial D. The story does small-time skips throughout the early part of the series, but in the final season, there is a large time skip with subtle character changes that add to the show really well without taking anything away. I just hope that the new Michael Vey books that come out, handle the time skip well and don't mess up the ending that was established.
Worth mentioning Fire Emblem: Three Houses timeskip as a positive example. The game, no matter the route, will always lead to the timeskip and result in the game moving forward 5 years into a more desolate wasteland of Fodlan. The adult characters, namely Catherine, Alois, Shamir, Mauela and Hanneman, don't get design overhauls, but all the students get significant changes in design that showcase their change in roles. Sylvain gets similar black armour his brother had to represent his heritage, while still keeping his flirty self and unkempt hair, Marianne gets shorter hair and a more positive look to represent her moving forward, Hubert gets more class armour to represent his rank in Adrestia's army etc. Additionally, the main lords get significant changes. (*NOTE*: I will get into more important spoilers for the timeskip, frankly the main stuff was shown in the trailers, i just needed to mention it because someone will bitch about it) good? okay. Byleth gets the interactions from the post-timeskip as someone who has no idea how bad the continent got throughout the last 5 years, due to being asleep that entire time. As a result he acts as a great surrogate as to the main changes of the three lords. Edelgard gets a massive change in regal attire and a far more "no nonsense" outlook because this is the war she needs to win to achieve her goals, Dimitri goes off the deep end with unkempt hair, rough and damaged clothes, and of course the lack of his right eye, while Claude gets loses a fair chunk of his pranking attitude and is planning to achieve his goals ahead of the other two lords. Byleth, due to their input pre-timeskip, is the only true confidant that they have, and is the main force pushing the three groups onwards to their goals. There are some issues with the timeskip, namely that a large stalemate happened for a period of time before Byleth appeared and it seems kinda dumb that they're the only reason why the war ended within a year of them returning. Still, it's a good example of a timeskip done right.
You forgot some of the most blatant ones. Firstly the battle quotes everyone has somber/darker versions of their pre-time skip quotes just to show you the player how this war has forced them to grow up. The one people quote to hell and back is Dorothea's cheery "That's my que" to "...More Fighting" my personal stand out is Claude's critical hit "Don't hold this against me okay?" to "Hold a grudge if you must..." Second the music. The battle theme changes from the heroic adventure inspiring "Fodlan Winds" and "Tearing Through Heaven" to the weary feeling "The Long Road" then obviously "Blue Skies and Battle" has been replaced with the intense "Between heaven and Earth" to symbolize the students were thier for fun the first time but now they're here to kill each other For as glaring as Three Houses flaws are, it did nail that aspect perfect on how the world fell apart.
@@breloompauncher5593 Ahh, sorry for not mentioning them. I haven't played Three Houses in a while, so I'm sorry for missing out on some of the specific details. But yeah, Music and Battle Quotes are 2 of the more major elements of the post timeskip. Garreg Mach as a whole is also worth mentioning as fair portions of it, namely the Cathedral, music choice, and the colour of the sky give this more tense atmosphere, compared to the more laid back and cosy environment of pre-timeskip.
@@SoldierDelta Oh also one more. Your students are now the teachers and they teach you how to do things. But yeah like I said Three house is a good game but it does have it's flaws, I myself find it hard to pick up again unless i'm playing Claude's route cause he has his shit together more than the other 2
@@breloompauncher5593 Yeah. I do want to say, the story told in Azure Moon (Dimitri's route) is probably one of my favourite in media. It mainly comes down the story of Dimitri for me. Dimitri is singlehandedly the best thing that has come out of the timeskip story. He's a lost soul that, no matter the route, will end in some form of sadness, and the timeskip allows that transformation to shine through without any restraint. Goddamn Azure Moon is a masterpiece.
@@SoldierDelta Well I like Claude cause he asks the bigger questions about what's going on behind the scenes and the history and also hints to the player to what's happening in the world abroad. His route is essentially world building and it's an interesting world to learn about. But I can see your point about Dimitri's redemption story. Fun Fact; His real name isn't even Claude it's an alias he's using to fit in. His real name is Khalid but the devs never found an opportunity to put it in the story.
I think this is what I like about the timeskip in the MCU following the Snap. The story could have gone the way of the comic where they undo it relatively quickly and the status quo is barely affected, but they decided to go with a 5 year jump so that once everyone's brought back, the world is different now, and everyone has to readjust, which followup movies and shows can use to shape their stories.
Interestingly, Jacob Geller JUST posted a video about a video game where time skips forward every time you (IRL) blink, basically making it a game about timeskips. Looks like today has a theme!
@@emeraldemperor2601 Yeah, you have to set up your webcam and whenever you blink, the scenario you're in ends. (Interestingly, the technology to detect blinking has existed for years; it's an accessibility thing.) Check out Jacob Geller's channel if you're interested!
I loved Red's explanation of season 2 of Young Justice. It was good but something didn't sit right with me compared to season 1 and now someone finally put into words why!
I feel like even if a timeskip completely shakes up the world and characters and makes everything "darker", it's important to keep in mind the themes and emotions of how it started. For example: if you spend multiple story arcs focusing on the characters holding on to hope in desperate situations and making progress despite incredible odds? Don't timeskip several years ahead to reveal that not only has many of the things that were being built up been torn down, but the situation has become utterly impossible and there literally is no hope left and everyone's so backed into a corner that progress is literally impossible. There's changing tone and then there's giving the audience tonal whiplash that makes them drop the story faster than a hot potato. And definitely then don't spend another one to two story arcs before you even try to explain to the audience wtf happened to make things this way in the first place.
This is exactly why right off the bat the Disney trilogy fucked up. It immediately destroys everything the heroes were working towards and achieved in the OT, by both having Luke's academy wiped out in a narration, and effectively destroying the New Republic 30 minutes in just so it could reset the status quo to "Empire vs Rebels 2: Electric Boogaloo". Having Palpatine come back is the final nail in the narrative coffin.
@@Sorain1 You are correct, and despite the other comments it's not Star Wars - I haven't even seen the Disney trilogy (although I suddenly understand why everyone was so disappointed with them). The example I had in mind was actually Attack on Titan. It was never perfect but I still greatly enjoyed it, until a surprise timeskip ripped out all of the parts I liked.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi Word. What's worse is that the "sequel" movies never bother to explain the drastic shifts that happen. They just reset the status quo from "the ending of RotJ" to "the beginning of ANH." (except worse) And DAMN the consequences of this! Don't think about it: only consume corporate product! Why is there a "Resistance" instead of the NR taking on the FO directly? How is there even an FO that can rival the NR in the first place? Don't worry about it! The NR doesn't even survive the first sequel movie! What? You wanted to see the NR your original heroes fought so hard for? Fuck you, we aren't showing it! What's a Snoke? Fuck you, we aren't telling.... and when we do, you'll wish we hadn't! Luke's new Jedi Order? Destroyed off screen. How? Fuck you, we aren't telling. What was it even like? Fuck you, we aren't telling. Han and Leia's romance? Failed offscreen when their kid became a school shooter... also off screen. How did all this happen? Fuck you, we aren't telling. Oh, and Han has abandoned his friends, family, and the cause he fought for only to revert back into a pathetic smuggler so bad he lost the Falcon. How did that happen? Fuck you, we aren't telling. Oh and the Emperor is back! How? Fuck you, we aren't telling... Fine. It was "something something something DARK SIDE!" That was a Family Guy parody joke? Yeah, well, FUCK YOU. And that's not even an exhaustive list of the post-timeskip continuity breaks that are never truly explored. (I don't care if these are explored in tie-in materials. If it's important it needs to be in the primary material ALA the main trilogy) Then there is more nonsense on top of that like the whole "map to Luke" disaster. And that's what happens when you don't plan out your trilogy in advance because you arrogantly believe you can squirt diarrhea into our eyes and it'll still sell DISNEY.
About the One Piece Time Skip: -Skip in power level and show off of new powers in the "first" episode -New designes for the main cast and many returning characters, who showed up later -The first arc after the time skip showed among other things many results of the event, that caused the training time skip -The power dynamic of the world changed over the time, without having a total change of tone, but a let everything progress to a point where these changes are no longer reversable, which is sprinkled in over the next 2 arcs -The nature and powers of the two big antagonistic forces are changed and implied eaerly and showed later -There are infos on how the world understood the disapearence of the strawhat pirates
It also showed exactly what each character was up to and the challenges they faced before the skip, giving a clear understanding of what they'd be up to and what progress they'd make. Good stuff.
It also SHOWED the characters reacting to each other’s power-ups, as well as showing exactly how much stronger the characters had become, by having them take down enemies that had been mopping the floor with them previously. rather than just saying “oh, they’ve all changed,” we actually get to see how much. It doesn’t hurt that the first major arc after they finish the time skip is Basicaly just them getting to show off
Also because all of the characters were separated and doing their own thing, we didn't miss out on any interaction. The story follows them as a crew, so it makes total sense to time skip the part where they're do individual things instead of crew things. We're still privy to the entire Strawhat journey/adventure.
something interesting about the one piece timeskip is how the characters largely go completely unchanged in terms of personality, especially seeing as how the main cast is almost all secluded from the world at large, with only like a few of them knowing about what has gone on in between it. another interesting timeskip is tower of god, a webcomic/anime which has a timeskip at around a little under 1/3 of the story, which completely changes the whole setting, turns the main protag into someone unrecognizable, so much so that the character even goes by a different name, and the story after the timeskip starts out for a bit with a different protag. takes a long time for the cast pre-timeskip to reunite
I'll be honest, but I don't really like this part of the trope. Unless the time skip is short enough to be inconsequence (a day to a week) people change. Even the plot should be advanced in that timeframe.
If I recall correctly, god of highschool also had cool time skips where characters, their personalities, and their motivations change greatly and new characters and relationships are built, yet it still feels natural (i.e. Mori Hui and the new Jade Emperor) but that could be my bias talking
To Red: Checked out your Comic Aurora I must say... wow. The art style leaps right off the page, & its colors are a visual masterpiece I see some OSP art style used in Aurora; interesting, & incredibly expressive Well done!
That moment when Red is trying to make it sound like her comic is just a hobby and then she drops the mic drops her workload! How do you have the time? I LOVE YOU! No heterosexual tendencies.
I've been thinking lately that this whole Covid kerfuffle is basically a real life timeskip It makes a good time to grow more powerful for the challenges ahead
That's exactly how me and my friends are thinking of it, specially because we actually haven't physically seen each other since that fateful day in March of 2020
Kind of, but I think a lot of people struggle with it to such an extent that all they can really do is keep existing. It can be hard given the circumstances to find ways of growing given all the things that were more difficult to do, or the mental/emotional burdens of events, or simply not knowing what to do and not being able to get inspired by anything or anyone so not being able to change a huge amount despite supposedly having time to do so.
Everything EXCEPT the Professor Hulk aspect. While I do get it is the logical conclusion to Banner's character arc the fact that it was all done rushed AND offscreen comes off as lazy cheating. Would have worked MUCH better if they stuck with the original plan of Professor/Merged Hulk showing up during the Wakanda battle in "Infinity War"
These videos are so helpful when you're writing your own story. You can get a clear idea of how a trope works and how you can implement them into your own story
I ask around, cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers. Very! This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read', but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general want to convince more children to write Stories and become Baby-Level-Authors, i now ask around. Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok? !
@@slevinchannel7589 one of the major things you can do is write about any and every idea you have for your story and characters then go back through them later to see how you feel about them and how you can line them up time wise. If you have a plot idea you have that you really really like then look through your character ideas and see how each character would react to that event. Keeping to a character personality while having them grow is probably one of the hardest parts of writing.
@person person I think you're selling power levels a bit short. They can be a handy tool for efficiently conveying how worried we should be about a new character showing up without an obligatory scene of them beating up a supporting character or three. For that matter, implicit power levels are pretty much essential to creating and managing audience expectations for fight scenes. I'm not sure there's enough there for a trope talk, but it's not _that_ bleak.
@person person Eh...it can be? Reputation is more organic, but also more fallible, especially if it comes from an untrustworthy or weak character-plus it takes more time from other aspects of the narrative. Explicit power levels are artificial, but make it clear _how much_ of a threat the new character is to _whom_ almost instantly. Their greatest benefit is that efficiency and clarity. There are also ways that specific stories can use specific power level systems to expand on aspects of their world or narrative. The first clear example that comes to mind is Jujutsu Kaisen, which rates sorcerers from Grade 4 to Special-Grade. Maki is rated as a Grade 4 sorcerer despite being roughly on par with experienced Grade 1 sorcerers, because A. her specific skillset is undervalued by the jujutsu community and B. her family is deliberately meddling with the system to keep her where she is. This communicates both the jujutsu community's tunnel vision and how much influence a few powerful families have over it. Are there other ways to communicate all of this? Yes. But that doesn't make communicating them this way less useful. They're all tools in the toolbox, suited to some situations and not others. The trick isn't to use one and not the other, it's to figure out what tool serves your story's needs most effectively, taking up as little space and trading off as little as possible. Dismissing a trope-ANY trope-as bad by saying it's either boring or pointless prevents you from understanding why it is a trope. No creative choice becomes a recognizable trope unless there's a reason for it; understanding that reason is valuable, whether you use the trope or not. If a trope is universally bad, it's not because the trope has flaws; it's because the things it does are either not worth doing or have a negative impact which all authors _should_ want to avoid.
Thank you for mentioning the Young Justice time skip! I loved the first season so much and was so excited for the second but that first episode of season 2 truly just dashed all my hopes for it. I stuck with it and hoped it would get better but it just never hit the same notes as the first season. I never bothered with the third season :/ I feel like the time skip was really what messed it up. Because I was looking forward to watching them grow the team, not starting 5 years later with all the newbies there already. Great new Trope Talk! I look forward to the next!
I may be a year late, but Season 3 is so fucking good pls reconsider watching it. It has a good balance of new and old characters which is carried on into season 4 which almost completely focuses on the original characters.
I watched halfway through S3 before giving up. They made Nightwing into a Batman replacement, which is exactly what he didn’t want. And none of the other characters even try to understand his thought process, he’s disconnected from them.
I hate these. They always feel disconnected to me. They impose a certain reality on me without any build-up and explanation, and almost always things that I didn't imagine happen, and I only feel frustrated and disappointed because that's no longer the characters I followed excitedly and grew to care about.
@@Lishtenbird I just like to know that the characters are (still) happy years after the main plot concluded. Can turn a bittersweet ending into a sweet one. LotR does this pretty well by showing that the Shire can be green again and that life goes on beyond the age of the rings
I ask around, cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers. Very! This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read', but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general want to convince more children to write Stories and become Baby-Level-Authors, i now ask around. Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok? I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
@@johnathancopson9328 I ask around, cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers. Very! This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read', but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general want to convince more children to write Stories and become Baby-Level Authors, i now ask around. Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok? I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
Who hopes Red talks about the “Different Language” trope, the “Purifying the Gene-pool” trope, the “Who Has The Stronger Philosophy Fight”, or the “Remakes” trope
I could see her doing the Remakes trope since there's a lot of material to work with there. Could talk about why the product was remade (usually money, but why THIS specific product was remade) and how it was remade reflects the mentality of the people at the time. Just look at the number of Spider-Man and Superman movies and shows that've differed from each other over the years with each remake.
@@8-bitsarda747 I feel that is one of the fundamental parts of good storytelling, honestly. Conflicts between heroes and villians at its core is a comparison of philosophies and methodologies, so the fights *should* be decided because of a superiority of the heroic attitude and philosophy.
@@privatelast8724 I would love a trope talk about plot induced stupidity in general, it's good to see people address when authors have a good, clear idea but have no logical way to execute it
My favorite timeskip was the first one from Fairy Tail. All the most powerfull wizards of the Fairy Tail guild get stuck in a time bubble for 7 years. To them, only a few secondes have passed but the rest of the world kept moving while they were gone and some heavy stuff happened. Their guild which was the strongest in the land has become a joke, having less than a dozen members left, burried in debts and they've lost their guild hall. Lucy, who had made peace with her father, now learn that he passed away during those 7 years. (That show knows how to hit you in the feels) Etc... And not everything gets fixed. Sure, Fairy Tail get back on top after three seperate arcs, but it never gets all the members back and Lucy's father stays dead. Plus, it makes for an interesting story line when the main characters realise that every one else has been spending those 7 years gettign stronger while they remained the same and must now catch up...
Was gonna mention this one too lol... although the most recent time skip they did for the final season definitely pulled the "haha a character has turned evil! (jk he's just undercover)" thing she mentioned was bad lol
When the comic becomes so instantly popular that the website stops working. "The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request." I swear I will binge this comic... SOON. Update: It took me until 3:20am, and the website fought back every other page, but I've binged it all. All 373 pages. Do I ship Falst and Kendal? Just a bit. Enough to have a fanfic blurb in my head this morning. Falst proclaims, "None of this midnight excursion bull. I'm sleeping on your arm so I know you've stayed put." And so Kendal laid on his back in bed, a cat claiming his right arm (both of them following Erin's sleep directions: no shirts, except sleep shirts, which neither of them own). An hour or so later... Falst feels fidgeting for the umpteenth time. "Can't sleep?" "Nope," Kendal answers immediately. "Would it help if you got more comfortable?" Kendal readjusts, hesitantly spooning his companion. Moving to wrap his arm around, "Is it okay if I-" "Yup." At that, Falst settles in close. "Mm, soft," Kendal observes without thinking. Falst is fuming in an instant. But he continues, "It's nice." And just like that, Falst's anger evaporates. After that night, Kendal decides this whole 'sleeping' thing is a lot more pleasant with company. Falst agrees "just so he can sleep."
Red "...I haven't watched or read One Peice, because... you know, incredibly long, and I have other stuff going on." Journey to the West looming behind her.
4:00: There are also a few cases where the heroes get _less_ badass after a timeskip, either due to some part of their life falling apart or because they've just gotten rusty from not saving the world every week. One example which sticks out in my mind is the start of the Dragonlance _Time of the Twins_ trilogy. It's been years since the _Dragons of Season Time_ trilogy, and while some things haven't changed much, Caramon-one of the eponymous twins-has gone from a dumb, kind, and badass stereotypical D&D fighter to a big, fat drunk who can barely muster the motivation to get out of bed in the morning. This doesn't take much more than a training montage in an ancient gladiatorial arena (long story) to fix, but still. As an aside, it was a _lot_ easier to get invested in the new Caramon's character arc when I realized these books were supposed to be a sequel to another set of books and not a standalone trilogy.
@@stupidmonkey8057 Yes, but he already gets a lot of shit from the fandom over not dedicating his life to martial arts like his dad does. (Some of them see him as positively _irresponsible_ for not assuming that someone even stronger than the last strongest known being in the universe would threaten the Earth in a few years and preparing accordingly, which is ridiculous.) I wanted to point out an example that wouldn't be as well-known.
Jotaro from JoJo also comes to mind. His timestop does shorten by quite a bit between Stardust Crusaders and DIU and it deliberately shows us that Jotaro isn't as strong as he was during the trip to Egypt, though he's definitely not weak either as he nearly killed the main antagonist, along with being part of the reason why Kira was actually killed in the first place (the timestop Ora barrage). So while it shows that Jotaro has gotten weaker to some extent, it also shows that time has shown him some very good tricks he can pull with his stand (like firing makeshift bullets) that he's learnt in the 12 year timeskip.
I honestly appreciate how you don't downplay any of the tropes you talk about, simply and calmly explaining them. It's so helpful and doesn't make me feel bad for using them. Also DAMN your comic sounds so fun!!! Yes, angsty feral cat boys are my thing lol
I'm curious how Red reacted to the time skip in Avengers: Endgame. It was the first of its kind in the MCU, and for me really emphasized the depth of the heroes' failure to stop the Snap.
I kinda hate what they did to Thor with it though, especially after they upended his growth from Ragnarok in Infinity War. I mean it sort of makes sense, but they could've done better?
@@commentmanwhoeatsgahbage3022 It would've been interesting if, instead of the snap resetting Thor's character growth to zero, instead Thor's character growth had allowed him to mature enough to avoid the depression spiral he fell into. If he'd gone: "Alright, I screwed up, I lost, we all lost. But I still have thousands of years left to live, and I'm going to spend all of them trying to fix this if I have to." He could've been the one taking the lead in trying to bring everyone back, which would've really shown how far he'd come. I'm not saying what they did didn't make sense, but I think there are more interesting things they could've done.
@@commentmanwhoeatsgahbage3022 The beer gut was overkill. Probably realistic, but really felt like adding insult to injury for both the character and the fans.
@@zoro115-s6b Agreed! A Thor who is incredibly angry and actively struggling to make up for his mistake seems to me a tad more realistic than a Thor who is depressed and does nothing but sit idly while occasionally yelling at fortnite kids. After all, Thor has always been an action oriented kind of guy who is unwilling to sit pretty and let the world sort itself out, even in times of depression. He could still get fat and drunk but I imagined him to be more of an angry roamer-- like Hawkeye was but with a temper that snaps between intoxicated laugher and cold-blooded fighter in an instant.
One of the best timeskip examples I can think of is in the Magnus Archives season 4 when *(spoiler for end of s3)* Jon comes out of a coma after the Unknowing and learns what’s happened in the 6 months he’s been gone, like what happened to Tim and Daisy and Martin working with Peter. I really liked how he had to sort of reconnect with the other characters because of how much everyone had changed
One example I could think of for the "time skip skiper" was generater rex, he was dropped forward 6 months in time, and all the changes of the timeskip are essentially *because* he was sent forward 6 months in time and absent for that time
oof ouch ow my website
Soooo the comic site is working intermittently because of the sudden explosion of traffic. There's nothing wrong on the webmaster side (which unfortunately means there's nothing for me to fix) so it should clear up as things slow down.
But you'd like to read it now, I'm mirroring it onto the comic tumblr starting here: comicaurora.tumblr.com/post/654546833938497537/intro-ch1-p1-7
Have fun!
-R
dude, I legit only saw a moment of the comic- but it looks amazing already and i'm so excited to read-!!!
Well, it's good we didn't break it
Rip the website, I’ll wait a bit to read but from what I’ve seen you’ve done an amazing job! I’m very curious about the orange energy lady
I got question an audio version
Reminds me of the time Tom Scott broke Google Forums
glad red finally got her excuse to talk about Reboot uninterrupted for an entire episode
It surprising it didn't happen sooner
Bet there’s still gonna be a detail diatribe about it in a few weeks
Literally the first thing I thought.
Yup
I wish I got paid for my excessive fangirling..
Edit: I take back my statement, there's no such thing as excessive fangirling
The virgin storyteller: Not showing their protagonists pooping
The Chad David Lynch: Actually waiting 25 years to skip forward 25 years
I love this comment.
The Godly storyteller: Showing their character poop after 25 years....And they have hemorrhoids
Haha just like the Houseki no Kuni hiatus. It's been going on for so long people are joking that Ichikawa-sensei's actually gonna wait the 10,000 years. I'm in pain-
Hideo Kojima: you have to watch norman reedus poop every 30 minutes
Who exactly is David Lynch?
"The one unspoken rule of story pacing is no-one ever poops"
"Lies, you forget that toilets can be a brilliant way to introduce villains," said Araki, ensuring the Polnareff will never feel safe in a bathroom again.
Why did you have to remind me of that?
Araki breaks all sorts of rules because he's awesome like that.
I wonder what Toilet Pig is up to in the new universe...
Salutes to the legend that is Timothy Treister
hinata shoyo wishes his toilet breaks didn't matter
I see Red is sponsoring herself this time. I like to imagine she role-played the entire thing like an agreement between mafiosos:
"You got the money, Comic Red?"
"My money is your money, OSP Red."
I love this image
And blue comes into the room asking her something, stares at her with a fedora and a fake mustache, and then leaves
If Red has an OSP plushie, she definitely used that to play out the other part
@@ANTICENA571 oh my gosh I need OSP plush Red in my life
She made herself an offer she couldn't refuse.
Spoilers: Red inserted herself into EVERY Character in her comic
Kinda do that too tbh. Like, the characters follow MY logic, so they must do what I think they would do
I mean, that's sorta how writing works.
Comes with the territory of being an author
I do that all the time... that's why I'm not good at characterization or character development... My stories are pretty much "what if someone put a Jurassic World-style ressort on an island full of aliens?" Or "what if Jules Verne was a timetraveler doing a get-rich-fast scheme and a lot of sci-fi writers thorough the XX Century where travelers attempting the same scheme with increasingly less and less accuracy due to editorial mandate ('a connected network of computers people use to share photos of their breakfast? Nosense! Change that for holographic phone calls, it would be more beliable that way!')"....
I'm a bad writer, is my point
@@Mario_Angel_Medina Bruh, putting aspects of yourself into characters is HOW you do good characterization. Your characters emotions will always feel their most real when you're writing about things you yourself have experienced, or at least drawing a comparison between what you've gone through and what the character is going through.
You have got to love that Goku says the line "what's kissing?" AFTER he has 2 kids.
honestly, the entire Dragon Ball franchise becomes a lot funnier if you assume Goku spends a lot of his non-fighting interactions just fucking with people by pretending he's a complete moron.
@@caitlinbrewer4843 I think you just gave me my all time favourite head canon.
@@Jack-kx5rf 🤣🤣🤣
Tbh the whole thing was a mistranslation of a joke on the english sides fault lmao
The whole joke was just that goku was confused on the concept of birdfeeding food to someone
Vegeta thought he was talking about kissing and said its normal
Thus goku thinks vegeta is some weirdo who birdfeeds his wife food 💀
Goku and vegeta aren’t the best people, parents or partners and do get flanderized a ton. But if we’re going to talk about that, we should at least use the examples that are actually true and not things that are the fault of faulty translations.
While i believed it too for a time; its kinda weird that western fans truly took that and ran with the idea that goku never kissed his wife when he literally has 2 kids 💀
The joke is that Trunks is birdfeeding Mai the Senzu Seed, and Vegeta thinks they're kissing, so Goku believes that Vegeta birdfeeds Bulma.
OH FINALLY SHE MENTIONS HER COMIC EXISTS WITHOUT PLAYING IT OFF
We love you blue and red
and she actually has a link this time!
and all you fools broke the websight before i could read page 1
I didn’t even know she had a comic before now!
@@nealjustus9500 fuccin 500 internal server error. I JUST READ PAGE ONE P L E A S E
if it would be on a working server. that would be great
The Actors age in real-time.
Paul Rudd: “Confused Paul Rudd sounds “
Insert confused Keanu meme
Rudd has that Ben Button thing. He's gonna be like 40 next year.
The Paul Rudd and to a lesser extent Keanu comments are very on point here. Of course Keanu doesn't really need a surname any more, he's a bit like Cher or Bono in that regard.
They literally used that to their advantage in Endgame
@@dominictemple But Reeves is such a cool name
Also Reanu Keeves ^^
"Time skips shouldn't move the story backwards"
Star Wars Sequel trilogy be like "Oh, you defeated the Empire and saved the galaxy?"
*uno reverse card*
Man, how I hate those sequels... They make me feel like I fought for nothing. Also, if they so easily erased the victory of the OT and made everyone a failure, it doesn't makes me trust the ending of the sequels because I know they could just as easily erase that victory and make them all failures.
And that feels so pessimistic, which is the opposite of how Star Wars should make you feel.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi For real. Luke's character just undid everything he stood for. One of the biggest themes in the OT was how there can always be good in evil. Luke watched as his father turned back to the light after being this horrible overlord. Then he senses some darkness in one student, and his first instinct is to kill him? What???
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi If anything, the ending of the sequels is even more fragile since they technically never actually beat the First Order. The just knock out Palpatine & his superweapon of the week, yet the rest of the First Order was apparently strong enough to topple the New Republic without his help.
@@hungrypenguin1560 Not only that- but he senses darkness in his NEPHEW and his first thought isn’t “Oh- why don’t I go tell his scary-powerful mom and good-and-charismatic dad?” And is just “DEATH MURDER NO!”
Was looking for this comment. Way to remove the entire point of the entire series your piggy backing off
"No one ever poops"
Tywin Lannister tried to be defiant. Look at him now. Never break the unspoken rules of story pacing. Never.
So did the John Travolta character in Pulp Fiction
W-What happened to them?
@@thehistoryandbooknerd8979 not sure about John Travolta, but Tywin was confronted by one of his sons (someone who he tried to get executed and then slept with his girlfriend) culminating in the aforementioned son killing him with a crossbow.
No one ever poops - unless it's somehow plot relevant, really, which in most cases will mean them getting attacked while on the toilet. I remember this one scene from a movie my dad was watching at one point where I just kinda checked in to see what the movie was about and a woman was killed by a spider robot while on the toilet.
Me: *looks at Yami from Black Clover* Never noticed they’re one of very few characters who actually do it…
The fact that so many people started using your comic website that it actually ceased functioning properly is perfectly described by the phrase “Mission failed successfully”.
@gioyu comi And a neck.
@gioyu comi I JUST FOUND THE ULTIMATE MESSED UP TIME-SKIP!
The ICarly Revival!
Hi dr bright. How’s the scp foundation doing?
Dr Bright??? What are you doing here?
@gioyu comi Why are you replying to a comment with something COMPLETELY unrelated?
Obviously, this video came out before Arcane dropped, but I think that's a perfect example of a timeskip. Characters are older and more confident in who they are, and the status quo has shifted, but the world remains recognizable. We also get Vi's point of view, who both aged with the skip, but was locked out of important shitTM for it's duration. She didn't change, and now she has to adjust to the world that did. The entire show is just *chef kiss* so good
Was looking for an Arcane comment. What a masterpiece of a show man.
It's also notable that the very first character we see after the timeskip, and the speaker of the very first lines, is Heimerdinger, the one character who hasn't changed at all (because what's a few years to someone who's lived for centuries?) So we get a big dose or reassuring stability before we get to any the jarring changes.
It was also a really short time in the pre-skip era. There isn't enough time to get really attached to any element of the status quo. Just be engaged with the events that changed it
Time skips in a nutshell:
“Well, we’ll just cut out all of the boring stuff! And some of the important stuff! And character growth!”
"And then flash back to it as the story demands"
*cough kill six billion demons cough* Oh man, that's brutal. I hate it when that happens. *cough vinland saga cough* Who would do such a thing?
A good story can fill this in with flashbacks or spinoffs. A bad one won't bother. ....Some *really* bad ones seem to skip over all the interesting shit and only show the stuff that would normally get cut.
@@Talisguy A good story wouldnt use flashbacks to tel important plot that it originally skipped over. Unless of course its a murder mystery or the like that *has* to skip over time to make it a mystery.
@@SneakyDevil I'm thinking mainly of shared universes and franchises here, admittedly. Sometimes you spot something a previous work skipped over that could make a good work in its own right, and get the chance to correct this.
And immediately the comic's page is overloaded by visitors. The casualties of trending.
Yeah I'm trying to read it but its not letting me :(
Yup
Looks like red will have to pay for better website hosting
Lol, I had been reading along and decided to check in and just thought, "huh that's weird" when it crashed. Should have connected the dots there
It let me look at the main page and when I tried to click anywhere else I got a 500 error. Whoops? XD
Reading Aurora has really made me notice how conditioned I've become to the romantic tropes, as a fellow Ace umbrella user, that when any characters were expressing platonic physical contact part of my brain jumped into "aight, I guess that's the couple, I bet the next panel will have them blush or smthng" and I was happily mistaken.
I love that the characters can express genuine explicit concern about each other and not have any "no homo, bro" or * romantic intimate scene/staring*
Can we have this for more stuff?
would love that, almost will never happen (sighs)
I’m already calling it
Kendal = ace icon
And the fact that Erin referred to Tess as his sister refreshingly seems to avoid the whole “childhood friends fall in love” pitfall
I’m pretty sure according to word of Red that Kendal is ace.
Oh, gad, yes, the fact that I can read a comic like Aurora without having to undistract myself from sexy fanservice is one of my favorite features!
... I mean, I'm okay with no romantic subplots, but *damn* Alinua and Kendal are REALLY CUTE TOGETHER.
They have winning chemistry, lovely designs, and a history. While I don't mind them being friends, I will still ship the two of them to death.
“No, the time skip isn’t for you to increase everyone’s cup size by one”
“B-but they’re older!”
“SHUT”
ok, no cup size increase by one, so 2 or more :V
really wish someone told RWBY animators this
@@naruarthur make them big enough to the point the crush under how heavy they were and created a black hole
But yet, no one mentions Nami and Robin from one piece.
@@wizardanerik Wait, what? Are you mixing up shows or did you somehow miss the last five years of incels complaining about Yang's boobs getting ever so slightly smaller in the change to Maya?
Story: has a timeskip
me: Oh boy, I wonder what convoluted reason the author wrote to unnecessarily break up the main romantic couple is this time.
*CW's Arrow flashbacks intensify
You really just hit the nail on the head with that one 😔
"I made you like these characters and got you invested in their relationship, so now I'm going to have them both act like complete jerks in a completely out of character way that ruins their relationship, all for the sake of drama." -99% of writers for some reason.
Young Justice: *sweats nervously*
Cries in assassination classroom
Tomoko-chan S1: "But one thing we all know is that we'll always be friends forever, and nothing will ever change th-"
Tomoko-chan S2: "Everything's changed. It's been three years since since Refidrgerator-senpai killed Lamp-senpai and left our village. My outfit is now black, because things are serious business now, Chairem Anime: *Sofa-Den*. WE'RE GROWNUPS NOW!"
Oh i used to love this anime, watching this anime and Playing "The quest to save prince horace" was my Childhood
Tomoko, we must defeat Ice Dragon!
Absolute best quote in all Anime: "did you get The Point?"
"And the number one rule of story pacing is no-one ever poops."
Actually...now that you do said it.....
Tyrion Lannister sends his regards.
With a crossbow.
Because Tywin broke the one rule.
I legit want a major plot point to happen unexpectedly while a character is on the pot, and they have to scramble to get out and doing whatever, in the process making some hard choices about expediency vs dignity and hygiene.
*stares at polnareff*
The Legend of Korra
So THAT'S why Luffy keeps asking that to every new being he meets.
I really like the soft time skips that give the characters some happy times. The victories don't feel earned if there's a new one popping up right away every time.
Yeah, when each new crisis happens a few hours after the last one, I always start to feel a bit of sympathetic burnout!
Glad I skipped time right up to this Trope Talk by getting a proper night's sleep!
Relax you don’t need to flex on us. I got my second COVID shot and I got almost no sleep.
That's just lazy writing, stay awake the entire night for more realism
"He is the one."
@@lizisverycool8711 Isn’t the usual reaction sleeping too much?
@@jamesharding3459 I toss and turn in the night so when i put weight on my vaccine arm it hurt so I woke up and couldn't go back to bed.
When Red is talking about how timeskips are bad if they are meaningless, and I'm just hear thinking their just describing the Fairy Tail timeskips
Now that I think about it, Fairy tail's timeskips are bad. The first one with the Tree was out of nowhere. Except for Zeref and Acnologia, there weren't any enemies that are shown to be far stronger than them to give the readers a heads up. Also, when the main characters travel forward in time to see they are outclassed, it was a good narrative, until they made the team had their own timeskip too, so now the part where everyone but them got stronger lost its impact, when we have no idea how strong the main character is now. Aside from that, no character development happened during the timeskip. There was also another timeskip where it resets everything else again to make the main characters stronger than every side character that was introduced before so that they can suddenly introduce the cheatcode villains after without any foreshadowing.
Same. In fact, "nothing has actually changed" is what made me drop FT after the timeskip... wait a minute, "timeskipS"? There were more after the 7 year one? Man, the more I learn about FT the more I feel like I was right for dropping it.
@@mateusrp1994 after the tournament arc there is a year time skip which I do think was much better because the characters actually went around and did shit, like Natsu went and trained, Gray went undercover, and Juvia lived with Gray for a year before he went undercover without her knowage so she went depressed, not sure on the top of my head if there is another but the seven year one I think was made purely so they can bring characters like Jellal and Ultear to be active while keeping the main cast the same
I thought she was talking about Naruto.
The timeskips were so meaningless that i actually forgot they had any until you mentioned it.
Ok these trope talks are absolutely saving my life. I was just about to write an 10 year time skip in a story of mine and thanks to this I noticed some VERY important mistakes i would have made. Thanks to you I can fix them and improve my story!
good luck on your writing! as a fellow writer I can also say these save my life so often, if they didn't exist I'd be dead in a ditch by now
There’s really no way of being sure if a trope will be well or poorly received ahead of time. That’s why test audiences are so important.
I can’t quite explain why I like a trope in some works and am frustrated with it in others. I think pacing and delivery are the key, but that can be totally subjective depending on the reader.
@@ConnanTheCivilized I am convinced it is all about delivery. That is, what are you delivering? One story is about a dad that dies, so his son goes to get vengeance for him. Another is about a dad that dies, so his son joins the rebellion forces that oppose the force that did the murder. Both have a time skip after the catalyst moment in the story. Pointedly, I find that the former accomplishes it better than the latter, mostly because of the necessity of said timeskip. Naruto, for example, accomplishes it very poorly. Everything comes to a standstill, every other character accomplishes great feats of increase, and yet our main hero has little to no change to show for it. Whatever he did before,he does better, only so that the audience doesn't feel lost. You're supposed to change, but if you change too much with no feasible explanation, you lose the audience. Which brings us to the other point, a character with no prior knowledge of the opposition and no ability to fight them has a much greater necessity for a time skip. Either way, time facilitates change, but should never facilitate utter destruction of character or goals.
You could do a whole episode on just downtime. Like, the refreshing moments where we see how the characters act when the plot isn’t happening. The dwarves just feasting at Bilbo’s place was arguably the best part of the first Hobbit movie.
Downtime is my favorite thing in literally any piece of media
That sounds nice, basically some slice of life moments.
I love those types of episodes but when you do, people complain and say it's "filler".
ATLA. Everybody's chilling at the beach, and then Zuko comes after Aang guns blazing.
Classic Zuko.
Downtime is crucial if you want your characters to seem human. It's hard to fully connect to a character we only ever see going from one catastrophe to the next, and reminding us that these characters have lives reminds us of the stakes when they're in danger.
Red: "Post time skip character goal probably shouldn't be to put everything back the way they were."
Samurai Jack: ...
yep. that ending still anoys me to this day. Yay, everyone you care about never existed!
@@turma8eac I'm sorry, WHAT
“Put everything back” was sort of Jack’s goal before the 50 year time skip. The time skip in the final arc of Samurai Jack was brilliant in my opinion. Because it not only raises the stakes, but it a way connects you more with the story insofar as viewers will have been away from this universe for a long time too ... and thus a dramatic time has passed for it as well while we looked away
@@turma8eac The videogame sort of retcons this by having the canon ending be that Ashi gets to live now.
@@MattEldritchHorror ah yes The video game ending was awesome
Today on Trop Talks that could have used JoJo as a perfect example.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is a dynastic tale of the Joestar lineage.
The first part takes place mostly in 1888, featuring Jonathan Joestar.
The second takes place 50 years later in 1938, featuring Jonathan's grandson Joseph Joestar.
Part 3 is again, 50 years later in 1988/1989, with the main character being Joseph's grandson Jotaro Kujo, but also featuring old man Joseph as well.
Part 4 this time is now only 10 years later in 1999, main character being Josuke Higashikata, Joseph's illegitimate son, featuring supporting roles from both Jotaro and Joseph.
Part 5 is self contained, taking place in in just 2001, with the main character being Giorno Giovanna (GioGio), which is offspring of Jonathan's body while it was under the control of Dio Brando, the main antagonist of the series, hence the Gio Gio being JoJo and Dio. Part 5 also does feature a lot of cameo and minor roles for returning characters of the series but for the most part is entirely its own thing.
Part 6 takes place in 2011 featuring Jotaro's daughter Jolyne Cujoh, with Jotaro in another supporting role.
As you can infer, there are a lot of time skips in this series. A dynastic tale stretching over 2 centuries is bound to do that. The most iconic character change in JoJo has to be Joseph. Going from primary to secondary character to tertiary was interesting. He goes from cocky bisexual teen to adventurous/playful badass old man to deteriorating but caring old man with many regrets. Skipping the same character ahead 50 years and then 10 years means you have to create 3 different characterisations and yet they did exactly that.
@Myles Jotaro is Araki's favourite of his characters. Being based on westerns, specifically Clint Eastwood's characters, Jotaro already has a rather well established archetype, a proved success.
Jotaro also existed in the modern day, Araki started writing JoJo in 1987 and wrote Part 3 in 1989-1992 (Part 3 was set in 1988/1989). This was somewhat seen as the climax of a series that started its time 100 years in the past and worked its way to the present.
This has quite a lot of significance as Araki didn't want to tell a sci-fi story, so he kept things to the future but in a way that was close. So 1999, 2001, 2011. His goal was to write stories that still take place in our world but occasionally blunders still happened, for instance, JoJo's 2001 Italy still uses Lira and not Euros. Regardless, these smaller timeskips meant that Jotaro was still a viable living character to include in stories.
Jotaro was a mixture of right place right time and good writing (as much as he is a Mary Sue in a sense), so he had all the ingredients he needed for being the face of the series.
(That's all disregarding his face as the soft reboot character into the stand era.)
@Myles probably not, red likely does not know much at all about anime in general, but well versed in old cartoons and obscure western animations
@@EvilParagon4 isn't Joseke Araki's favorite character?
@@afanofjustice Oh right, forgot Araki _really_ likes Josuke lmao. Yes, that is true that Josuke is the favourite. However, that just makes Jotaro #2.
@@EvilParagon4 What about Mista, Bruno and Kira?
Red is best because she knows we going to binge their comic so they made sure to give us enough backlog without telling us so we don't fear missing out
Yes, a pro-gamer move. Imagine if she'd started the comic, plastering previews everywhere and talking about it non-stop... only to get bored with it or write herself into a corner, and end the thing three chapters in. I've read too many webcomics where the artist stops updating before even properly introducing everyone on the cast page.
I read it all yesterday
I’m already all the way caught up and have some personal spoiler-y theories
Soul is the eighth element and comes from the white dragon who actually IS real, Adamantine could be pure concentrated soul
The white dragon could’ve somehow split apart and became the six primordials or gave up it’s power to them
What we don't realize about reds webcomic is that EVERY character is her self insert!
Just look for the Mary Sue...
I will think about that once it uncrashes, since it crashed before I could see it (also unrelated, autocorrect thought I was trying to say undresses instead of uncrashes, which just made me think of the prince Lindworm story)
@@speedypichu6833 You can read it all on Tumblr now no problem!
@@Klaaism
Erin?
I recently read a webcomic called “Hooky” and there is a really well handled timeskip in the middle. The story is I think comparable with ATLA in how the story always feels on track (and the progression of seriousness). The first part of the story ends with one protagonist thinking something really really bad happened to someone they love, while we, and some other characters, know that there was a body double and the loved one is fine, and leaves to go find and rescue aforementioned protagonist. So then when we come back for part two, it turns out that loved one just disappeared, we have no idea what happened to them and because of this, protagonist has believably fell into the “evil monarch” position that a prophecy foretold, even though for almost all of part one, it seemed impossible for that to happen. Both loved one and protagonist have not really changed since what happened immediately after part one ended, except now they’re older, while the rest of the cast has believably gone further along the character arcs from part one, and are fully recognizable (but not exactly the same). The ending is also really good and gives a further explanation to how protagonist became capable of doing really bad things, and it makes total sense and you can tell it was all planned out in advance. 11/10 go read it (it’s on webtoon but after the first 21 episodes you only get to read two more a day or you can buy access to parts if you’re impatient)
i totally read hooky too!!!! it was awesome. the way they pulled that twist with the prophecy that doubles as a plot twist and reframes the entirety of the comic AND- changes the story and a massive character as we know it AND- does it all with it making sense and flowing well?? fuckin' awesome
OH MY GOD! YES! SOMEONE ELSE WHO READ HOOKY!
I never understood why hooky never took off, it was very well written but i think due to the fact that the author isnt american or korean that the story didnt really get more promotion
I love that comic!
I loved it how the art improved in each episode
"... and a look at what happens when I try to draw people with actual noses." Wait. WAIT! This entire time, none of your drawings have had noses? What!? Give me a bit to go process the fact that I haven't noticed the lack of noses the entire time I've followed this channel, and to go read Aurora.
I haven't seen the comic yet, but I gotta admit, the sudden noses thing preemptively scares one corner of my brain.
(Edit: I have seen the noses, and they are good. Nosephobia averted.)
Yeah! Exactly
Oops all Krillins
"The webcomic I've been making for two years"
HELLO!????
RIGHT I HAD NO IDEA
I think the most effective use of time skips I've seen is with JoJo's. The time skip is used to build an entirely new story, so the payoff of the season before isn't spoiled, the characters have some downtime to grow older and maybe return as part of the next main crew while not being the main characters and the disconnect of the time skip is well worth it because you're getting to know a whole new cast of characters instead of only having to reconnect with the old one
King crimson
@@suluketheduke4528 not that kind of skip
@@arthurpprado literally time skips, huh big benefit of KC power is disorienting/disconnecting their point of view. Cool
Arguably _Arrival_ subverts this, since it isn't obvious that the MC isn't seeing linear all along until near the end, and so confabulates past and future memories until she figures it out and it all falls into place for her and the audience.
Memento as well. Since the narrator has a form of amnesia where they can't hold long term memories, and the story plays from the last scene to the first.
I ask around,
cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers.
Very!
This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read',
but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general
want to convince more children to write Stories and become
Baby-Level-Authors, i now ask around.
Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok?
I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell
someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
Kinda wish she'd mentioned Samurai Jack's time skip, but that's just me doing a fanboy nitpick. This was a great breakdown of how time skips are used, and actually put into words why I lost interest in the second half of Young Justice... I never really connected the reasons why I stopped watching it before now.
I read a summary of Young Justice season 2 and it completely killed my interest in watching it from how jarring it was. Watching this video would have done the same, if I hadn't read that summary years ago already.
Yeah, season two of Young Justice is what I point to when I want to explain to people how NOT to do a time skip. Don't be Young Justice Season 2.
I think that time skip nearly killed the show.
@@NaviRyan I mean, it basically did, until fan outcry resurrected it years later. Which, i haven't seen either because i don't want to pay for whatever the dc streaming service is called, and feel the need to watch the previous two seasons to catch up... But the second season just completely lost my interest, so i have little motivation to watch it...
@@AskMia411 I thought it was originally canceled because of something about having a larger female audience which was something Warner Bros didn’t want. Also I get that not liking the changes season had I hated that Kid Flash was killed off but I don’t think it was so bad that it killed it.
Honestly, I think one of my favorite handling of timeskips would be Fire Emblem Three Houses. To be honnest, it checks so many boxes on the video's list I am genuinely surprised it wasn't mentionned.
i was waiting for someone else to mention it! i also think it handles the timeskip very well
Definitely, especially the Blue Lions path.
It says something that the FE fandom wasn't too hyped for 3H's high school story but then went into hype overload after it was revealed that there was a time skip into am era of war where the students were adults.
@@Percival917 It makes sense too. Time skips, when handled well, are such a great way to see characters come into their own and grow as people. You spend such a long time in Part 1 with these students and it's genuinely so great to be able to see how they've changed and how the consequences of the war has impacted their personal and emotional lives post the time skip. It can fall pretty flat if not handled right, but it is a great way to draw in your audience when properly executed.
YES
I love how in The Order of the Stick, the goofy yet genre savvy bard turns up post-time skip wearing an eyepatch, only for the leader to yell at him to take it off. His eye is fine, but that's just what you *do* after a time skip.
Given how genre and trope savvy OOtS is in general, it's a pity it doesn't get mentioned in these videos.
@@stevejakab274 the most we got was a picture Vaarsuvius in the five man band video
@@TheRabbitPoet I believe it was also referenced in the mind control episode
@@sabrinamcclain162 You are right. I just never noticed because I had not read oots back when I watched that video.
Original title of this episode was "An excuse for Red to talk about Reboot in a trope talk again"
And why not? End of season2 onward were the best tv in years. I think only gravity falls compared on story quality and resolution.
I was happy to see a Reboot reference. One of my fav shoes.
I think the thing that makes One Piece's timeskip so great is that it almost feels more like a time jum because of how it is set up. For context the events the lead up to the final event of the time skip start ****122 Episodes*** before the skip happens. Our lead protagonist is separated from his friends and is forced to make hard choices about attempting to reunite with them or save someone very close to him, and he choices to try and save them in hopes that his friends will be able to take care of themselves.
Then the majority of the next 122 episodes are focused on this solo adventure, where the lead meets new friends and foes, while constantly realizing that despite all his strength he isn't independently strong enough to save the people he cares about. While this is happening there are a dozen or so episodes that step away from the main storyline to focus in on the crew and where they are. And it turns out each of them has ended up in a place that is perfectly fit to challenge them in their weaknesses and to better them in their strengths. It finally hit the climax with the lead suffering extreme physical and emotional damage.
So instead of rushing into another failure and risking losing his friend all over again the lead sends a message out to them. "Wait, for me. Train, get stronger. I'll be there to see you" without saying a single word to each of them. THEN finally the timeskip happens. In reference to the video it'd be like watching someone wake up, see that their clock is broken, their shirt is torn, and all the milk is run out. They'd say something like "I need to head out today" and then the next time you see them the clock is replaced, the shirt has a patch and the fridge has a new jug of milk. It doesn't feel like we lost anything from the skip because we already understand what is happening before it hits.
Just gonna do a pre:EDIT: this is just my own thoughts and opinions please be kind to each other
Why would you just spoil the whole thing like that? lol.
@@jonnjones8263
Dragon is luffy’s father and Gol. D roger is Ace’s father
The mermaid princess is actually the ancient weapon Poseidon
Ace dies
Sabo is still alive
There’s a person who rules the five elders and occupies the empty throne named Imu
Whitebeard dies and Blackbeard somehow gets his devil fruit power (so he for some reason can have two powers)
Momo is a time traveller from the past
Kaido’s devil fruit is a dragon Zoan
Courtesy of your not-so-friendly neighborhood wikisurfer
They should just timeskip to when the protagonist dies
Now that would be a fun story
I mean, that's what the Legend of Korra did.
So Adventure Time?
Of course your Highness.
The Good Place does this several times and by golly it still works
The way Avengers Endgame seemed to arbitrarily insist on using time travel to bring everyone back but also imposing a time skip that didn't get undone (because Tony has a daughter who is entirely there to stand in for the ethical dilemma of undoing the five years they didn't need to have skipped) was a little frustrating, but I feel better about it seeing how they're actually exploring the world consequences of having half the world traumatized by losing their loved ones and then getting them back and the other half traumatized by suddenly finding themselves in a world where five years passed without them and everything changed.
Agreed, although I'm ever-so-slightly disappointed they didn't spend more time between the two, with characters having to deal with the world half-empty.
Seemed a good opportunity to have previously supporting characters come to the fore or introduce new ones. You could have whole character arcs about 'filling the holes left behind'.
They haven't undone because that's not how time travel works on the MCU, haven't you heard the Baby Thanos talk from War Machine and Hulk, even If they wanted change the present they can't.
@@Gabe600 That rule is a writing decision they made, not one they HAD to make. It was a choice. And the way the baby thanos war machine talk was done completely botched the explanation of how it actually worked. And it's not even consistent, with grandpa America being a gigantic plot hole! DbzA did a better explaination of multi verse theory time travel and keeping it consistent, and its a freaking PARODY!
I'm not getting fired up at you, just to be clear, i just REALLY hate the writing of endgame. It's lazy "Character development" and refusal to explore any other plot besides "time travel fixes everything" is horrendous writing. It doesn't build on any of the infinity stone lore previously established in the mcu, or even in INFINITY WAR, which they wrote as part one of two directly connected films!!!! And so many people do things that are completely out of character and make no sense.
Omg, sorry, i just REALLY hate that movie, it killed my interest in the mcu. I want to get into the Disney plus shows, but new mcu stuff reminds me of endgame and i just get upset again
The time skip and badly written time travel literally killed my enjoyment of the mcu. From a writing standpoint it is just SUCH an unnecessary MESS!
Just pick up where you left off in Infinity war, don't have a time skip, and have the avengers try to figure out how to fight a fully powered thanos! But no, they had thanos use the infinity stones to destroy themselves (which IMHO shouldn't even be possible. The movies are established that they're at least partially sentient, they protect themselves) by reducing them down to atoms--something that in the movie released directly before endgame, ant-man and the wasp, shows several characters going smaller than atoms as part of the freaking plot!!!! I thought for sure, in the theater opening night, that they would solve the problem by using the Pym particle stuff to go and FIND the infinity stones.
Oooh i need to stop. Sorry for the multiple rants in the comments, the writing of endgame infuriates me
@@AskMia411 that honestly sounds like a better plot. i think part of the reason they did the time skip thing was to also have the loki show since they know Tom Hiddleson brings in serious merch money and wanted his main story death to matter but also have him do things in future projects.
Fire Emblem's done this a few times, and almost every time it's a different variety. There's been a few sequels where a new/returning threat pops up (Archanea) or we turn to a different perspective (Tellius). But the two most notable would probably be in Genealogy of the Holy War and Three Houses. The former is broken into two distinct generations with about a 15 year gap between them. And it's pretty well justified since your previous party was almost entirely incinerated after your seeming big triumph. Then the kids of those guys have to grow up until they're ready to save the world from the new evil empire that you unwittingly laid the groundwork for. Huge changes, new cast of characters, basically starting fresh (except for all these kids getting their parents' equipment...somehow). Three Houses is a little less dramatic. War breaks out, and your avatar is basically put in a coma for a few years. During that time, one of two things happen depending on if you're siding with Edelgard or not: Either fuck all and the war has turned into a stalemate, or Edelgard's made huge strides. Ironically, she's much closer to uniting Fodlan when you're not on her side. Either way, all the students are aged up with new designs, the music is more somber, and everyone goes through a little bit of character development. Things probably could have been explored without the timeskip in 3H, but the aspect of a 3-way war after a 5-year gap was a big marketing point.
"Superhero medieval times" - More fantasy needs to embrace this.
Agreed! Does Seven Deadly Sins count?
The best kind of fantasy.
Personally I feel both is good. Light and dark times.
Pathfinder 2e leans into this HARD.
This type genre MUST have a really good cast of characters or it's going really boring and bland, looking at you sword art online, fairy tale, every generic isekai anime
Code Geass:
"You know what? Time skip AFTER CLIFF HANGER, because why not?"
R1 to R2?
I remember having to wait weeks before I could continue to R2. The creators were trolls to make it that way
@Tom Ffrench I always thought the most obvious example of Code Geass being a narrative mess was the... Euphemia Incident near the end of season 1 (you've seen the show, so you hopefully know what I'm referring to), as that was probably the worst thing I had ever seen on TV (and I watched Code Geass for the first time in the same year that season 8 of Game of Thrones released). But having a timeskip after a cliffhanger probably comes as a close second.
@Tom Ffrench code Geass is a narrative mess, that we agree on, i would also add it's a thematic one also
@@kostajovanovic3711 Theme is "CATASTROPHE". Mood is "HAM".
I think my favorite version of a time skip is when a cartoon series has a massive time skip at or after the ending of the series in order to do a sort epilogue as to where the characters are and what the world looks like. Adventure Time did this, Regular Show did this, and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic did this. Of them all, the mlp one was definitely my favorite. The entire last episode of the show was dedicated to the time skip and one of the most important lessons of the show. Not only that, but the time skip in the last episode felt WAY more natural then any other time skip I’ve ever seen. See, mlp did a fantastic job at developing its characters over the course of the show. Every major and even a lot of minor characters had pretty easily understandable and expected trajectories for their lives (Rainbow Dash had already achieved her dream of being a wonderbolt, Rarity had slowly but diligently created a fashion empire, and Twilight had been crowned an Equestrian Princess and had successfully forged alliances with pretty much all of the other powerful kingdoms of their world). Before the time skip, every character had either already achieved their dream/purpose in life or they were on track to doing so. The Time Skip was mostly used to show how much better the world ended up becoming as a result of the heros and just reinforcing their “happily ever after”. It was so strange, even though many years if not decades had past and many things about the world had changed drastically, you never felt for even a moment like you were disconnected from the world and the characters. All of the change and progress of the world felt completely natural, welcomed, and even a little expected based off of everything the show had created and built up for itself. To this day, the time skip at the end of mlp remains the only time skip I’ve ever seen to perfectly invoke the spirit and promise of what lead up to it. I know Red will probably never watch mlp:fim, but I do believe that there is a lot of things that the show did fantastically. There’s a reason why so many people did and still do love this cartoon.
I completely agree. The characterization in mlp truly makes me feel like I knew these characters inside and out as friends, so everything tracked in the end.
I ask around,
cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers.
Very!
I want to teach some real small babys to write stuff.
Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok?
I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell
someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
I love my little pony! This show is my absolute nostalgia show and even though I've stopped watching it I will still love this show. :)
Amphibia did time skip ending too.
"the number one rule of storytelling is no one ever poops"
Because terrible things happen when you do; just ask Vincent Vega ;)
No one has to relieve themselves unless something happens while they are isolated.
Jokes on you, I'm reading something where a character does stuff qhile in the bathroom so we have to go there with him.
Captain Yami does It every time
Hank Schrader has been doing some light reading.
@@Gabe600 Well, unless someone interrupts him.
Me, a fan of Aurora, but being a clueless nerd: Hold up, Red OSP writes that?! Small world!
How did you not figure that out from the art
@@Nobody-pv9jt If you know enough artists, you can find multiple people with very similar styles, even if those styles are overall rare or distinctive. So seeing a style I think I recognize doesn't automatically make me think "Ah, it's this person!"
@@Nobody-pv9jt It’s also worth noting that Red’s sketches in OSP are usually intermittent snarky snapshots of what’s being described, jumping immediately from one gag to another. Aurora on the other hand has actual continuity, plot beats, drama, and so on. Even knowing she drew it, it took a bit of adjustment, and even the sense of humor FEELS a bit different in the different format.
🤦♂️
Come on dude
The fluffy hair
How could you not guess who it is by the fluffy hair
And let’s not forget the snarky comments under every page
@@flamingpi2245 As I stated a year ago, I am a clueless nerd, and I know enough artists that I might know a handful of people with similar "distinctive" art styles.
aot pre-timeskip: we’ve gotta help eren kill the titans
aot post-timeskip: we’ve gotta stop eren from killing everyone
Honestly, One Piece is the only anime/manga series that does the timeskip properly.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr nah aots one is great
@@ThomasOwOD , Titans went from Giant nude people to being NAZI experiments in the Attack on Titan timeskip; Eren went from being the main hero of the story to being the villain in the timeskip, and it seems that the only badass fighter that’s not a Titans shifter that’s badass in the pre-timeskip era of Attack on Titan and the post-timeskip era is Levi.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr all i can say is read the manga
Light Yagami i don’t see how my comment is an example of a timeskip done “improperly”
"Which one is my secret self-insert" trick question, they all are
I was half-expecting her to bring up Ant-Man in Avengers: Endgame when she brought up the character that doesn't go through a time-skip.
“Oh no the status quo has been minutely inconvenienced”
Snippets like this is why I love Red.
Red: I've been working on this comic for years.
Me: So THAT'S why you haven't had the time for making Journey to the West videos!
Absolutely no ill will, I'm glad you've been working on your web-comic and more of your sense of humor is always a plus in my eyes. Can't wait to read it myself.
Now, I got it. Aurora was basically peak, "Fine, I'll do it myself." Well I gotta say, it's far better than what I could achieve. Not that I can't draw for shit, I can; but to quote Steve Miller time keeps on slipping into the future if ya get my drift.
It’s tropey but in a good way
And it’s super investing
"tired of fantasy getting dark and realistic as though it's embarrassed to admit that it's superheroes in medieval England"
YEEEEEESSS
I noticed that in alot of YA Fantasy, especially post-Game of Thrones popularity. Everythings just so dark, serious and edgy from the start.
Part of the reason Harry Potter grew on people.and became so memorable is before it became serious and dark, it began as this fun childhood adventure and escapism is this hidden wonderful world!
( Granted, part of me wished it consistenly stuck to that tone for thr whole series 😅)
The best classical literary time skip is The Count of Monte Cristo. Without spoiling it, the main character time skips entire years before a change in viewpoint where the offspring of those we knew pretimeskip and see the main character from what he's become after the time skip. The book handles the time skip perfectly and uses it to its advantage.
The best time skip I've seen in anime would probably be Initial D. The story does small-time skips throughout the early part of the series, but in the final season, there is a large time skip with subtle character changes that add to the show really well without taking anything away.
I just hope that the new Michael Vey books that come out, handle the time skip well and don't mess up the ending that was established.
God initial d is just soooooo fucking good
There are new Michael Vey books!?
@@vesuvius00 There will be. Richard Paul Evans announced it earlier this year.
I’d love to see a tripe talk on the “Evil twin/ dark reflection trope”
Worth mentioning Fire Emblem: Three Houses timeskip as a positive example. The game, no matter the route, will always lead to the timeskip and result in the game moving forward 5 years into a more desolate wasteland of Fodlan. The adult characters, namely Catherine, Alois, Shamir, Mauela and Hanneman, don't get design overhauls, but all the students get significant changes in design that showcase their change in roles. Sylvain gets similar black armour his brother had to represent his heritage, while still keeping his flirty self and unkempt hair, Marianne gets shorter hair and a more positive look to represent her moving forward, Hubert gets more class armour to represent his rank in Adrestia's army etc.
Additionally, the main lords get significant changes. (*NOTE*: I will get into more important spoilers for the timeskip, frankly the main stuff was shown in the trailers, i just needed to mention it because someone will bitch about it)
good? okay.
Byleth gets the interactions from the post-timeskip as someone who has no idea how bad the continent got throughout the last 5 years, due to being asleep that entire time. As a result he acts as a great surrogate as to the main changes of the three lords.
Edelgard gets a massive change in regal attire and a far more "no nonsense" outlook because this is the war she needs to win to achieve her goals, Dimitri goes off the deep end with unkempt hair, rough and damaged clothes, and of course the lack of his right eye, while Claude gets loses a fair chunk of his pranking attitude and is planning to achieve his goals ahead of the other two lords.
Byleth, due to their input pre-timeskip, is the only true confidant that they have, and is the main force pushing the three groups onwards to their goals. There are some issues with the timeskip, namely that a large stalemate happened for a period of time before Byleth appeared and it seems kinda dumb that they're the only reason why the war ended within a year of them returning. Still, it's a good example of a timeskip done right.
You forgot some of the most blatant ones. Firstly the battle quotes everyone has somber/darker versions of their pre-time skip quotes just to show you the player how this war has forced them to grow up. The one people quote to hell and back is Dorothea's cheery "That's my que" to "...More Fighting" my personal stand out is Claude's critical hit "Don't hold this against me okay?" to "Hold a grudge if you must..."
Second the music. The battle theme changes from the heroic adventure inspiring "Fodlan Winds" and "Tearing Through Heaven" to the weary feeling "The Long Road" then obviously "Blue Skies and Battle" has been replaced with the intense "Between heaven and Earth" to symbolize the students were thier for fun the first time but now they're here to kill each other
For as glaring as Three Houses flaws are, it did nail that aspect perfect on how the world fell apart.
@@breloompauncher5593 Ahh, sorry for not mentioning them. I haven't played Three Houses in a while, so I'm sorry for missing out on some of the specific details.
But yeah, Music and Battle Quotes are 2 of the more major elements of the post timeskip. Garreg Mach as a whole is also worth mentioning as fair portions of it, namely the Cathedral, music choice, and the colour of the sky give this more tense atmosphere, compared to the more laid back and cosy environment of pre-timeskip.
@@SoldierDelta Oh also one more. Your students are now the teachers and they teach you how to do things.
But yeah like I said Three house is a good game but it does have it's flaws, I myself find it hard to pick up again unless i'm playing Claude's route cause he has his shit together more than the other 2
@@breloompauncher5593 Yeah.
I do want to say, the story told in Azure Moon (Dimitri's route) is probably one of my favourite in media. It mainly comes down the story of Dimitri for me. Dimitri is singlehandedly the best thing that has come out of the timeskip story. He's a lost soul that, no matter the route, will end in some form of sadness, and the timeskip allows that transformation to shine through without any restraint.
Goddamn Azure Moon is a masterpiece.
@@SoldierDelta Well I like Claude cause he asks the bigger questions about what's going on behind the scenes and the history and also hints to the player to what's happening in the world abroad. His route is essentially world building and it's an interesting world to learn about. But I can see your point about Dimitri's redemption story.
Fun Fact; His real name isn't even Claude it's an alias he's using to fit in. His real name is Khalid but the devs never found an opportunity to put it in the story.
“I am speed”
I am UNLIMITED POWER!
I relate
Sonc
I am the senate
I am inevitable?
I think this is what I like about the timeskip in the MCU following the Snap. The story could have gone the way of the comic where they undo it relatively quickly and the status quo is barely affected, but they decided to go with a 5 year jump so that once everyone's brought back, the world is different now, and everyone has to readjust, which followup movies and shows can use to shape their stories.
"No-one ever poops" damn Araki took that too literally when writing Stardust Crusaders
I love that the panel selected for “dragons!” Appears to consist of said dragon being beat up by a storm god. Some things are universal.
She is technically *not* a storm god, but she _is_ a pretty powerful lightning mage
Interestingly, Jacob Geller JUST posted a video about a video game where time skips forward every time you (IRL) blink, basically making it a game about timeskips.
Looks like today has a theme!
Wait it detects you blinking IRL?
@@emeraldemperor2601 Yeah, you have to set up your webcam and whenever you blink, the scenario you're in ends.
(Interestingly, the technology to detect blinking has existed for years; it's an accessibility thing.)
Check out Jacob Geller's channel if you're interested!
I loved Red's explanation of season 2 of Young Justice. It was good but something didn't sit right with me compared to season 1 and now someone finally put into words why!
Red: "One piece is too long"
Also red: "lets do this multi year series about an infamous doorstopper".
one piece has 800 episodes i dont blame her
@@hallow-oda And 1000 chapters, I fuck you not.
@@Punaparta Correction: 1016 and counting
Oda: One piece will end about five years
New OP fan: Holy shit really
Veteran OP fan: Don't get your hopes up, he says that like every 3 years
@@hallow-oda 978 episodes and 1016 chapters and you bet your ass i’ve consumed them all
I feel like even if a timeskip completely shakes up the world and characters and makes everything "darker", it's important to keep in mind the themes and emotions of how it started. For example: if you spend multiple story arcs focusing on the characters holding on to hope in desperate situations and making progress despite incredible odds? Don't timeskip several years ahead to reveal that not only has many of the things that were being built up been torn down, but the situation has become utterly impossible and there literally is no hope left and everyone's so backed into a corner that progress is literally impossible. There's changing tone and then there's giving the audience tonal whiplash that makes them drop the story faster than a hot potato. And definitely then don't spend another one to two story arcs before you even try to explain to the audience wtf happened to make things this way in the first place.
You pretty much exactly described what went wrong with the Star Wars sequels.
I feel like you have a specific example of this in mind, and am wildly curious as to what it is.
This is exactly why right off the bat the Disney trilogy fucked up. It immediately destroys everything the heroes were working towards and achieved in the OT, by both having Luke's academy wiped out in a narration, and effectively destroying the New Republic 30 minutes in just so it could reset the status quo to "Empire vs Rebels 2: Electric Boogaloo". Having Palpatine come back is the final nail in the narrative coffin.
@@Sorain1 You are correct, and despite the other comments it's not Star Wars - I haven't even seen the Disney trilogy (although I suddenly understand why everyone was so disappointed with them). The example I had in mind was actually Attack on Titan. It was never perfect but I still greatly enjoyed it, until a surprise timeskip ripped out all of the parts I liked.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi Word.
What's worse is that the "sequel" movies never bother to explain the drastic shifts that happen. They just reset the status quo from "the ending of RotJ" to "the beginning of ANH." (except worse) And DAMN the consequences of this! Don't think about it: only consume corporate product!
Why is there a "Resistance" instead of the NR taking on the FO directly? How is there even an FO that can rival the NR in the first place? Don't worry about it! The NR doesn't even survive the first sequel movie! What? You wanted to see the NR your original heroes fought so hard for? Fuck you, we aren't showing it!
What's a Snoke? Fuck you, we aren't telling.... and when we do, you'll wish we hadn't!
Luke's new Jedi Order? Destroyed off screen. How? Fuck you, we aren't telling. What was it even like? Fuck you, we aren't telling.
Han and Leia's romance? Failed offscreen when their kid became a school shooter... also off screen. How did all this happen? Fuck you, we aren't telling.
Oh, and Han has abandoned his friends, family, and the cause he fought for only to revert back into a pathetic smuggler so bad he lost the Falcon. How did that happen? Fuck you, we aren't telling.
Oh and the Emperor is back! How? Fuck you, we aren't telling... Fine. It was "something something something DARK SIDE!" That was a Family Guy parody joke? Yeah, well, FUCK YOU.
And that's not even an exhaustive list of the post-timeskip continuity breaks that are never truly explored. (I don't care if these are explored in tie-in materials. If it's important it needs to be in the primary material ALA the main trilogy) Then there is more nonsense on top of that like the whole "map to Luke" disaster.
And that's what happens when you don't plan out your trilogy in advance because you arrogantly believe you can squirt diarrhea into our eyes and it'll still sell DISNEY.
So my criticism of the comic is that "internal server error" is a plagiarised character that I for one, am not happy to see return.
About the One Piece Time Skip:
-Skip in power level and show off of new powers in the "first" episode
-New designes for the main cast and many returning characters, who showed up later
-The first arc after the time skip showed among other things many results of the event, that caused the training time skip
-The power dynamic of the world changed over the time, without having a total change of tone, but a let everything progress to a point where these changes are no longer reversable, which is sprinkled in over the next 2 arcs
-The nature and powers of the two big antagonistic forces are changed and implied eaerly and showed later
-There are infos on how the world understood the disapearence of the strawhat pirates
It also showed exactly what each character was up to and the challenges they faced before the skip, giving a clear understanding of what they'd be up to and what progress they'd make. Good stuff.
It also SHOWED the characters reacting to each other’s power-ups, as well as showing exactly how much stronger the characters had become, by having them take down enemies that had been mopping the floor with them previously. rather than just saying “oh, they’ve all changed,” we actually get to see how much. It doesn’t hurt that the first major arc after they finish the time skip is Basicaly just them getting to show off
The timeskip actually has a reason for happening
And the world itself changed too
Also because all of the characters were separated and doing their own thing, we didn't miss out on any interaction. The story follows them as a crew, so it makes total sense to time skip the part where they're do individual things instead of crew things. We're still privy to the entire Strawhat journey/adventure.
something interesting about the one piece timeskip is how the characters largely go completely unchanged in terms of personality, especially seeing as how the main cast is almost all secluded from the world at large, with only like a few of them knowing about what has gone on in between it.
another interesting timeskip is tower of god, a webcomic/anime which has a timeskip at around a little under 1/3 of the story, which completely changes the whole setting, turns the main protag into someone unrecognizable, so much so that the character even goes by a different name, and the story after the timeskip starts out for a bit with a different protag. takes a long time for the cast pre-timeskip to reunite
I'll be honest, but I don't really like this part of the trope. Unless the time skip is short enough to be inconsequence (a day to a week) people change. Even the plot should be advanced in that timeframe.
It was so good that they did it again 1/2 way through the story :D (but to a far lesser extent)
If I recall correctly, god of highschool also had cool time skips where characters, their personalities, and their motivations change greatly and new characters and relationships are built, yet it still feels natural (i.e. Mori Hui and the new Jade Emperor) but that could be my bias talking
To Red:
Checked out your Comic Aurora
I must say... wow. The art style leaps right off the page, & its colors are a visual masterpiece
I see some OSP art style used in Aurora; interesting, & incredibly expressive
Well done!
That moment when Red is trying to make it sound like her comic is just a hobby and then she drops the mic drops her workload! How do you have the time?
I LOVE YOU!
No heterosexual tendencies.
It's simple. They don't read/watch one piece.
@@heek8964 Yep lol Also, 3 times a week sounds a bit too much, I think she could use releasing one time a week and having a bit more free time.
I love her too!
Maybe some heterosexual tendencies.
I've been thinking lately that this whole Covid kerfuffle is basically a real life timeskip
It makes a good time to grow more powerful for the challenges ahead
That is a good way to think about last year...
Now to reassemble my gang of heroes, discover the powerups we've gained, and fight evil!
I hate being one of the people who just kept living through the time skip. Y'all got offscreen growth and all I got was trauma 😋
That's exactly how me and my friends are thinking of it, specially because we actually haven't physically seen each other since that fateful day in March of 2020
Kind of, but I think a lot of people struggle with it to such an extent that all they can really do is keep existing. It can be hard given the circumstances to find ways of growing given all the things that were more difficult to do, or the mental/emotional burdens of events, or simply not knowing what to do and not being able to get inspired by anything or anyone so not being able to change a huge amount despite supposedly having time to do so.
@@lewisroach8723 also essential workers who weren't given any time off or at home
I really liked how "Avengers: Endgame" handled the time skip.
It's such an amazing delivery. Just hits the audience with a resounding 'THUD' and everyone's thinking "Wait, WHAT?!"
That's the time skip I was thinking about this whole video haha
Honestly yeah, it brings back most of the major characters but still leaves an impact on the world itself
A R C A N E
Everything EXCEPT the Professor Hulk aspect. While I do get it is the logical conclusion to Banner's character arc the fact that it was all done rushed AND offscreen comes off as lazy cheating.
Would have worked MUCH better if they stuck with the original plan of Professor/Merged Hulk showing up during the Wakanda battle in "Infinity War"
You had me at "angsty feral catboys."
HOLD ON NEW CATRA IM COMING
Catboys?! It's about time!
I'm waiting on the site working, but don't assume it's a new Catra, it could be a new Inuyasha.
@@zoro115-s6b pretty sure inuyasha is a dog
@@leka2095 He's angsty and feral though.
I was going to comment the exact same thing.
These videos are so helpful when you're writing your own story. You can get a clear idea of how a trope works and how you can implement them into your own story
The timeskip/montage in Mulan is unironically one of the best
Montages aren't timeskips because you literally watch all of the development happening. If anything, it's a fast forward.
Araki: "Now this looks like a job for me."
I ask around,
cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers.
Very!
This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read',
but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general
want to convince more children to write Stories and become
Baby-Level-Authors, i now ask around.
Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok?
!
@@slevinchannel7589 Tell them just to write. If they don't have any ideas, tell them to write about how they don't have any ideas.
@@tortis6342 Uhm... what?
How do you write about non-ideas??
?
@@slevinchannel7589 you just write “I have no idea what to write about” and keep writing about that instead of not writing at all.
@@slevinchannel7589 one of the major things you can do is write about any and every idea you have for your story and characters then go back through them later to see how you feel about them and how you can line them up time wise.
If you have a plot idea you have that you really really like then look through your character ideas and see how each character would react to that event. Keeping to a character personality while having them grow is probably one of the hardest parts of writing.
I've got some suggestions for future Trope Talks (don't hesitate to add any):
-Power levels
-One liners
-Shapeshifters
-Chekhov's gun
-Fillers
-Parallel universes
-Cliches
@person person I think you're selling power levels a bit short. They can be a handy tool for efficiently conveying how worried we should be about a new character showing up without an obligatory scene of them beating up a supporting character or three. For that matter, implicit power levels are pretty much essential to creating and managing audience expectations for fight scenes.
I'm not sure there's enough there for a trope talk, but it's not _that_ bleak.
@person person Eh...it can be? Reputation is more organic, but also more fallible, especially if it comes from an untrustworthy or weak character-plus it takes more time from other aspects of the narrative. Explicit power levels are artificial, but make it clear _how much_ of a threat the new character is to _whom_ almost instantly. Their greatest benefit is that efficiency and clarity.
There are also ways that specific stories can use specific power level systems to expand on aspects of their world or narrative.
The first clear example that comes to mind is Jujutsu Kaisen, which rates sorcerers from Grade 4 to Special-Grade. Maki is rated as a Grade 4 sorcerer despite being roughly on par with experienced Grade 1 sorcerers, because A. her specific skillset is undervalued by the jujutsu community and B. her family is deliberately meddling with the system to keep her where she is. This communicates both the jujutsu community's tunnel vision and how much influence a few powerful families have over it.
Are there other ways to communicate all of this? Yes. But that doesn't make communicating them this way less useful.
They're all tools in the toolbox, suited to some situations and not others. The trick isn't to use one and not the other, it's to figure out what tool serves your story's needs most effectively, taking up as little space and trading off as little as possible.
Dismissing a trope-ANY trope-as bad by saying it's either boring or pointless prevents you from understanding why it is a trope. No creative choice becomes a recognizable trope unless there's a reason for it; understanding that reason is valuable, whether you use the trope or not.
If a trope is universally bad, it's not because the trope has flaws; it's because the things it does are either not worth doing or have a negative impact which all authors _should_ want to avoid.
Shapeshifter battles? There more specific and rather memorable.
@@georgethompson1460 I haven't actually seen many of those. In fact I can't really think of any outside of the Zoan fruits from One Piece.
@@georgethompson1460 The only shapeshifter battle I think I've ever seen is the wizard duel in Disney's "Sword in the Stone"
Thank you for mentioning the Young Justice time skip! I loved the first season so much and was so excited for the second but that first episode of season 2 truly just dashed all my hopes for it. I stuck with it and hoped it would get better but it just never hit the same notes as the first season. I never bothered with the third season :/ I feel like the time skip was really what messed it up. Because I was looking forward to watching them grow the team, not starting 5 years later with all the newbies there already. Great new Trope Talk! I look forward to the next!
I may be a year late, but Season 3 is so fucking good pls reconsider watching it. It has a good balance of new and old characters which is carried on into season 4 which almost completely focuses on the original characters.
Agreed. I almost stopped watching. It was jarring.
But I'm glad I didn't.
I watched halfway through S3 before giving up. They made Nightwing into a Batman replacement, which is exactly what he didn’t want. And none of the other characters even try to understand his thought process, he’s disconnected from them.
Cool to see Red’s art style in a more “finished” state.
I enjoy seeing time skips to see how the characters are doing years after their main journey ends
I love the end-of-story-time-skip-epilogue
which does of course rely on the future you imagined being liked by the audience. the harry potter one for instance is a bit infamous.
@@vinx.9099 Harry Potter & Bleach
I hate these. They always feel disconnected to me. They impose a certain reality on me without any build-up and explanation, and almost always things that I didn't imagine happen, and I only feel frustrated and disappointed because that's no longer the characters I followed excitedly and grew to care about.
@@Lishtenbird I just like to know that the characters are (still) happy years after the main plot concluded. Can turn a bittersweet ending into a sweet one.
LotR does this pretty well by showing that the Shire can be green again and that life goes on beyond the age of the rings
Red made a fatal mistake by admitting she's never seen one piece. We'll get her one day fellas; just wait.
I ask around,
cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers.
Very!
This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read',
but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general
want to convince more children to write Stories and become
Baby-Level-Authors, i now ask around.
Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok?
I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell
someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
I can't wait till the day One Piece is all Red Talks about for 6 months.
I remember she said she was interested it in the podcast but couldn’t commit because she knows she’ll get sucked in and spend a ton of time on it
That's not how it works
Red: "...and nobody poops."
Tywin Lannister: "Am I a joke to you?"
His death was pretty funny.
That's the true reason he got the crossbow
@@johnathancopson9328 I ask around,
cause i need Basic Base-Advice for very, very young Writers.
Very!
This Century did a good Job getting more Children to 'read',
but because the very same does not really go for 'write' and i in general
want to convince more children to write Stories and become
Baby-Level Authors, i now ask around.
Whatever you'd call 'Basic' - make it even more basic and then tell me, ok?
I want to gather the very most basic stuff of how to tell
someone 'This is how you make a Story'.
@@johnathancopson9328 It is even funnier in books
Who hopes Red talks about the “Different Language” trope, the “Purifying the Gene-pool” trope, the “Who Has The Stronger Philosophy Fight”, or the “Remakes” trope
The "who has the stronger philosophy fight" is actually one of my favorite tropes out there.
I could see her doing the Remakes trope since there's a lot of material to work with there. Could talk about why the product was remade (usually money, but why THIS specific product was remade) and how it was remade reflects the mentality of the people at the time. Just look at the number of Spider-Man and Superman movies and shows that've differed from each other over the years with each remake.
I’m hoping for the “idiot plot” trope. Could send people the video instead of having to explain it every time
@@8-bitsarda747 I feel that is one of the fundamental parts of good storytelling, honestly. Conflicts between heroes and villians at its core is a comparison of philosophies and methodologies, so the fights *should* be decided because of a superiority of the heroic attitude and philosophy.
@@privatelast8724 I would love a trope talk about plot induced stupidity in general, it's good to see people address when authors have a good, clear idea but have no logical way to execute it
My favorite timeskip was the first one from Fairy Tail.
All the most powerfull wizards of the Fairy Tail guild get stuck in a time bubble for 7 years. To them, only a few secondes have passed but the rest of the world kept moving while they were gone and some heavy stuff happened.
Their guild which was the strongest in the land has become a joke, having less than a dozen members left, burried in debts and they've lost their guild hall.
Lucy, who had made peace with her father, now learn that he passed away during those 7 years. (That show knows how to hit you in the feels)
Etc...
And not everything gets fixed. Sure, Fairy Tail get back on top after three seperate arcs, but it never gets all the members back and Lucy's father stays dead.
Plus, it makes for an interesting story line when the main characters realise that every one else has been spending those 7 years gettign stronger while they remained the same and must now catch up...
Was gonna mention this one too lol... although the most recent time skip they did for the final season definitely pulled the "haha a character has turned evil! (jk he's just undercover)" thing she mentioned was bad lol
I think the Avatar Arc needed to be longer and toy with Gray as a double agent.
When the comic becomes so instantly popular that the website stops working.
"The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request."
I swear I will binge this comic... SOON.
Update: It took me until 3:20am, and the website fought back every other page, but I've binged it all. All 373 pages.
Do I ship Falst and Kendal? Just a bit. Enough to have a fanfic blurb in my head this morning.
Falst proclaims, "None of this midnight excursion bull. I'm sleeping on your arm so I know you've stayed put."
And so Kendal laid on his back in bed, a cat claiming his right arm (both of them following Erin's sleep directions: no shirts, except sleep shirts, which neither of them own).
An hour or so later...
Falst feels fidgeting for the umpteenth time. "Can't sleep?"
"Nope," Kendal answers immediately.
"Would it help if you got more comfortable?"
Kendal readjusts, hesitantly spooning his companion. Moving to wrap his arm around, "Is it okay if I-"
"Yup." At that, Falst settles in close.
"Mm, soft," Kendal observes without thinking. Falst is fuming in an instant. But he continues, "It's nice." And just like that, Falst's anger evaporates.
After that night, Kendal decides this whole 'sleeping' thing is a lot more pleasant with company. Falst agrees "just so he can sleep."
I shall read you soon, my pretty! And your little dog too! Mwahahahaaha.
Red "...I haven't watched or read One Peice, because... you know, incredibly long, and I have other stuff going on."
Journey to the West looming behind her.
Mahabharata looming behind Journey to the West
Ah, poor her.
And both have a main character who is a monkey
@@caitlinbrewer4843 i mean you aren't wrong
And that is why the Count of Monte Cristo will have it's vengeance... eventually.
"No one ever poops"
Yeah right. Tell that to the two Oscar winning masterpiece, UP.
4:00: There are also a few cases where the heroes get _less_ badass after a timeskip, either due to some part of their life falling apart or because they've just gotten rusty from not saving the world every week.
One example which sticks out in my mind is the start of the Dragonlance _Time of the Twins_ trilogy. It's been years since the _Dragons of Season Time_ trilogy, and while some things haven't changed much, Caramon-one of the eponymous twins-has gone from a dumb, kind, and badass stereotypical D&D fighter to a big, fat drunk who can barely muster the motivation to get out of bed in the morning. This doesn't take much more than a training montage in an ancient gladiatorial arena (long story) to fix, but still.
As an aside, it was a _lot_ easier to get invested in the new Caramon's character arc when I realized these books were supposed to be a sequel to another set of books and not a standalone trilogy.
Gohan from Dragon Ball z
@@stupidmonkey8057 Yes, but he already gets a lot of shit from the fandom over not dedicating his life to martial arts like his dad does. (Some of them see him as positively _irresponsible_ for not assuming that someone even stronger than the last strongest known being in the universe would threaten the Earth in a few years and preparing accordingly, which is ridiculous.) I wanted to point out an example that wouldn't be as well-known.
Jotaro from JoJo also comes to mind. His timestop does shorten by quite a bit between Stardust Crusaders and DIU and it deliberately shows us that Jotaro isn't as strong as he was during the trip to Egypt, though he's definitely not weak either as he nearly killed the main antagonist, along with being part of the reason why Kira was actually killed in the first place (the timestop Ora barrage). So while it shows that Jotaro has gotten weaker to some extent, it also shows that time has shown him some very good tricks he can pull with his stand (like firing makeshift bullets) that he's learnt in the 12 year timeskip.
Thor.
Old Man Logan he still badass but his healing factor it's not the same.
I absolutely love that The Murder of Roger Ackroyd was mentioned. This trope talk is so interesting. Thank you for creating!
I honestly appreciate how you don't downplay any of the tropes you talk about, simply and calmly explaining them. It's so helpful and doesn't make me feel bad for using them.
Also DAMN your comic sounds so fun!!! Yes, angsty feral cat boys are my thing lol
Fairy Tail's 7 Year Timeskip was one of the worst in shounen history.
forgot that time skip even happened.
fr
@@NaviRyan lol I forgot that show happened
@@aneta3098 sorry
Which is weird, considering the timeskip in One piece was really well handled (which it was).
"One Piece is too long" afterwards: "I wonder what's up with [any unsolve mystery]"
1:20 It's use in comedy comes to mind first for me.
Slacker: Relax, the boss is never going to notice
* cut *
Boss: YOU'RE FIRED.
Major design change? Steven's only design change was LENGTH
and voice!
@@monorayjak4377 that's not cjaracter design
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 and a neck
@@mohammedyousef4005 yeah, length.
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 yes but he didn't have one before did he?
"the webcomic ive been making for 2 years" the WHAT
"A lot of things can happen in a short while" -Red
Dec 31 2019: another year ended. Yay!
March 2020: the world as we knew it ended
"No one ever poops"
Gintama: "Allow me to introduce myself!"
I'm curious how Red reacted to the time skip in Avengers: Endgame. It was the first of its kind in the MCU, and for me really emphasized the depth of the heroes' failure to stop the Snap.
I kinda hate what they did to Thor with it though, especially after they upended his growth from Ragnarok in Infinity War. I mean it sort of makes sense, but they could've done better?
@@commentmanwhoeatsgahbage3022 It would've been interesting if, instead of the snap resetting Thor's character growth to zero, instead Thor's character growth had allowed him to mature enough to avoid the depression spiral he fell into. If he'd gone:
"Alright, I screwed up, I lost, we all lost. But I still have thousands of years left to live, and I'm going to spend all of them trying to fix this if I have to."
He could've been the one taking the lead in trying to bring everyone back, which would've really shown how far he'd come.
I'm not saying what they did didn't make sense, but I think there are more interesting things they could've done.
@@commentmanwhoeatsgahbage3022 The beer gut was overkill. Probably realistic, but really felt like adding insult to injury for both the character and the fans.
@@zoro115-s6b Agreed! A Thor who is incredibly angry and actively struggling to make up for his mistake seems to me a tad more realistic than a Thor who is depressed and does nothing but sit idly while occasionally yelling at fortnite kids. After all, Thor has always been an action oriented kind of guy who is unwilling to sit pretty and let the world sort itself out, even in times of depression. He could still get fat and drunk but I imagined him to be more of an angry roamer-- like Hawkeye was but with a temper that snaps between intoxicated laugher and cold-blooded fighter in an instant.
I actually LOVED the timejump in Endgame since it showed the impact of the Snap and gave different character growth for the OG 6 Avengers
One of the best timeskip examples I can think of is in the Magnus Archives season 4 when
*(spoiler for end of s3)*
Jon comes out of a coma after the Unknowing and learns what’s happened in the 6 months he’s been gone, like what happened to Tim and Daisy and Martin working with Peter. I really liked how he had to sort of reconnect with the other characters because of how much everyone had changed
One example I could think of for the "time skip skiper" was generater rex, he was dropped forward 6 months in time, and all the changes of the timeskip are essentially *because* he was sent forward 6 months in time and absent for that time