Is Shimano making a HUGE mistake by abandoning mechanical road groupsets at the top level? Would a true wireless groupset have been even better, even if it meant lower battery life? 👇
Abandoning just mechanical? At this point it appears they've abandoned both mechanical and electronic by how hard it is to actually get new components.
It's kind of like when framemakers stopped adding downtube shifter bosses, or Apple stopped adding 3.5mm headphone jacks. Whether you agree with it or not, it's a relentless evolution. Sometimes it's an evolution to a better standard, other times it's a way to invigorate a stagnant revenue stream. Maybe this is a combination of both.
Been riding this group (not the wheels) for a period. If I remind to visit this vid again, I'm happy to answer your question bout the groupset. Not bout weight ;) Things I can say bout it: coming from dura ace di2 the ultegra is the best i've ridden. It's different, smarter, It has been tought bout it. I like the new shifters a LOT. Yes It shifts faster, and better under pressure. It goes in a sleep mode when for a period not shifted, thereby it "misses" the first shift. Further it had never missed a shift. Not been dissapointed, no regrets here.
@@vodizzzle uh no. 😤 It's just simple and it works. Had been for years now. Di2 is just like electric cars these days, meh they are cool but aren't replacing the world anytime soon.
We still think the current mechanical version is an extremely reliable groupset and for the time being is still seen on plenty of new bikes. However, no new mechanical groupset suggests it is the beginning of the end!
I am currently using one on my aethos. The rear shifting is laggy sometimes. Easily scratchable chainset, chain is a bit noisy when you cross it. Battery lasts for two and half month with a moderate riding (2 times a week for 60 km each) or maybe I have been shifting. Lot :). breaks are very good but needs frequent adjustments. The groupset is better than others and still needs to be perfected like it’s predecessors
It'd be interesting to know whether or not the crank arm failure issue has been resolved. And I think your scales probably need recalibration, it's rare a manufacturer over estimates the weight on most of those parts 😉
Dude I've had this sitting in a box since January. The trick is ordering individual components from German online retailers , also comes out cheaper than ordering the entire groupset at once, believe it or not
I'm currently building up Ultegra 6800 and Ultegra 6870 groupsets. Can't wait to finish. eBay is a bountiful BOON for wrongly perceived 'dying' groupsets.😝😝😝
As a cyclist of 14 years.. i really wished they kept a mechanical version. I've a couple of bikes i used to be proud of but are now kept in storage and only brought out once or twice a year, and making sure a 14yo bike is in good riding condition is basically hose down and tightening cables. Any electronic bikes i buy from here on would likely not survive to being a "classic" 10, 20 years down the road. And that's a pity.
The biggest question is why would you bother keeping a bike for that long? I can understand being too lazy to buy a new bike, but I think that even laziness has its limits. I change my bike every 2-3 years. Just bought a SL7, and thinking of changing it to the new Orbea aero or perhaps a dogma F. This way you keep your bike’s resale value up, and you het a new toy to play with ever so often. Bikes are consumables; you use them, they spoil, and you just get a new one. It’s that simple.
@@87togabito why not? It still works as well as it always has. There are people choose something they love and keep it for a long time, and people who are fickle and can’t hold onto anything for long. And no, bikes are not consumables. Tires and brake pads are. Oh and PS: I do buy new bikes. I just don’t need to sell my old ones to be able to afford another.
@@87togabito Bikes are most definitely not consumables. Yes, they won't last forever, but their lifespan should be at least 10 years minimum barring unusual use cases, and typically more like 20+ years. I'm currently on a 14 year old frame, works great. Too lazy to buy a new bike? Sounds like you might be too lazy to take good care of your bike lmao
@@87togabito It depends what kind of bike u are riding, If you going with the modern bike than 'Yes' u change it 2-3 yrs. But if you're bulding a custom bikes like the Bastion, Pegerotti, Passoni, Stelbel, Festka, Sarto etc than is worth the keep. Mechanical is always good to keep especially Camapagnolo, u hardly find them and noone wanted to sell them. Todays bikes is like an Iphone they keep changing design but minimal performance and quality ride just more marketing BS .
I have bikes with each: mechanical and electronic. I would say that what you describe is a two street. If you find yourself in a remote spot, with a 'down' di2 system, you have measures that you can take to shift into an appropriate gear (crash mode). Likewise, my mechanical failures have always been due to a snapped cable - - also with measures that you can take to 'MacGyver' your way home in an appropriate gear - - invert your derailleur cable and tie it off, or jam a stick in the cage.
Beg to differ lol. My mechanical would shift off every half a year or so. But, one year in, my force has shifted just as quickly and smoothly as it has since day 1.
Quick click or two of the adjuster and gears all good again. I’m a professional cycle mechanic and love the simplicity & reliability of high end cable operated gearing. Electronic gearing is great, until it goes wrong, then it can be a right pain & expensive to repair.
There's 180g between 105 R7000 & Ultegra R8000 mechanical rim brake groups, mechanical ultegra was basically redundant once R7000 came out. I imagine sales would have been tiny for mechanical dura-ace, most laying out that kind of dosh would want Di2 so entirely understandable going in this direction. Also the bike industries propensity for wanting to run cables through the head tube isn't great for mechanical shifting or rim brake performance as the cable path is so convoluted.
At 5:45 you said that the front derailleur communicates wirelessly with the shifters and rear derailleur. I don't think that's correct. As I understand the rear derailleur that does all the wireless communication. The battery module also acts as a junction box so that the rear derailleur can communicate with the front derailleur.
Hi Graeme, you're correct - the rear derailleur does all of the wireless communication and the front derailleur communicates with that via the wire to the battery. I'd gone off script at that point, so apologies for the error!. Thanks for watching! Simon
Just a quick reminder that two years ago, Ultegra 8000 sold for less than $1000 and comes in at 400g less than Dura Ace 9200 Di2. Please, someone stop the bike industry from gentrifying and cannibalizing itself.
Two years ago everything cost a lot less, largely blame the US Congress for printing 10 trillion dollars out of thin air, over 25% of every dollar ever printed.
@@jonathanzappala The effects of U.S. inflation should theoretically hold little effect on the cost of goods sold in Europe that are manufactured by a Japanese company in Thailand and Malaysia, but I'm sure you've got an internet degree in macroeconomics and will happily tell me more about how Congress, and not the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, or the U.S. Mint for that matter are responsible for the injection of cash into the economy. At a certain point you can't blame the decisions of corporations to greedily fleece consumers on the actions of the government. At a certain point you might realize that the conniving agents of industrial finance have as much to do with the economic pain you experience as the incompetence of government officials.
@@ktakashismith well if you want to be a wise guy, I have a very real degree in political science. Why is it the United States? Because no other g7 country spent a percentage of their gdp in covid relief like the USA did. The worlds largest economy sets the market. Why is it Congress and not the fed? Because Congress passed massive spending bills, and Trump and Biden signed them. I suppose it’s shimano’s fault a shipping container costs 4x what it did two years ago. I could go on but you have your mind made up. I’ve never blamed a consumer for paying the prices, but those who made them flush with free cash borrowed from the unborn generations.
@@jonathanzappala If you think COVID relief bills are the reason that shipping containers quadrupled in price, I don't know what to say other than you need to go back to Uni and pay attention in class next time. Shipping container shortages and inflation also don't account for a groupset tripling in price within the span of two years.
Microshift (Taiwan): Am I a joke to you? (Sore point for Taiwan and Chinese aftermarket parts: they still yet to present a groupset with full hydraulic disc brake. Users of these offerings have to settle on cable-actuated disc brake calipers)
Pretty sure your total price is missing the cost of a shifter (you've only accounted for 1), as well as a Di2 battery and charger. The total cost is actually more than £2k.
Already using since January.. shifting are faster than 8070 di2.. other all same... the main benefit, I can now install sprinter shifter without tinkering around.. ( I hate a new shifter.. btw)
Personal I don't think so. I've ridden the same bike with both mechanical 105 and mechanical Ultegra, literally back to back (was torn between different colors lol). I couldn't tell a difference at all between how they performed. Di2 however had a wildly different and snappier shifting feel and genuinely felt like a true upgrade. I'm sure I'm in the minority I feel like 105 is so good that it's the only mechanical groupset shimano needs at the performance end.
That's the funny thing. People are willing to pay extra for ultegra over 105 when they perform nearly identically, just to brag. 105 mechanical has replaced ultegra mechanical and "enthuisasts" are afraid to see it.
@@vongdong10 The only realistic difference between the last-gen 105 and ultegra (aside from ~200g) was the lack of free-stroke adjustment on the disc 105 shifters. That's literally all I can think of, the rest just comes down to weight, the function was identical. Wonder if Shimano will offer a mechanical 12-speed 105...somehow I doubt it.
@kingjay you are totally right. The only difference between 105 and ultegra are pulley wheels, more aluminum, and the crankset. That’s why 105 di2 is a dumb idea. People think it will cost a lot less. All it would be is a black ultegra with a cheaper crankset. You can put a 15 chain and cassette on an ultegra 8150 as it is.
@@jonathanzappala As far as I know Campy is the only company that has successfully produced a mechanical 12-speed groupset. At a certain point, with the same cassette size, the spacing between gears becomes difficult to index properly and precisely. That's why I'm a little iffy if Shimano is willing to make the technological investment to bring 105 to the table as the only mechanical 12-speed groupset it offers. But, if the 12-speed tech carries over to GRX they might make it work.
No reason for Shimano not to sell an upgrade kit for current crowd of 11sp di2 users. New firmware, new cassette and chains. Yes to that extra gear, yes to hyperglide+.
Didn't expect a freebie. Just a business case for them to readily access the current mass of reluctant di2 customers. Sell the 12sp and hyperglide+ benefits. Sure, you won't get the full suite of advantages until you make the complete upgrade.
I'm lucky enough to have already installed this on my new bike build. Unfortunately, unlike the video says, you still need Shimano's computer adapter - and a new one at that. That's because firmware updates, particularly to non-rear derailleur components, cannot always be done by Bluetooth.
When the base price of a groupset is 2x just because it's electronic, it makes it a lot easier for companies to "justify" charging 2x for the consumables. Wow, my rear derailleur costs $700, so this $70 chain must be a bargain!
Glad I got the last generation. Why would I want to charge AND have to swap shifter batteries? You just know one of those will go flat when you don't have one on you.
@@MAGAIVER This is such a daft comparison - how many times have you had a mate snap a mech cable mid-ride? I've lost count of the times I've been out with friends in a group and some nimrod asks everyone to slow down because their Di2 is going flat, or they forgot to charge their AXS battery.
@@ktakashismith I've seen many mountain bike gear cables snap because people neglect their bikes. Not charging your electronic system is the same thing. I always go over my bike the night before a ride making sure everything is ok, checking the battery, just like I check the battery on my Garmin, would be part of that routine if I had electronic gears.
But can you ACTUALLY put 53 or 54T chainrings on with this FD? Shimano says it can only take a 52T but isnt that all down to FD adjustments to make it fit?
This is big chance for Campagnolo to come back to mainstream. As i believe many will be upset with electronic only groupset on the higher end. ( There were professional riders not wanting to switch to electronic as they believed that mechanic groupset were just more reliable and dependable) I've tried electronic and it's not for me. Wonder what is going to happen with those in 10 years . My 2008 Dura Ace is running like new
Campagnolo will soon go all EPS too. I though it weird their new Ekar gruppo was mechanical only, but then I saw the price and realized they were trying to curry favor with the rapidly expanding gravel segment and be premium yet not unobtainable. I do have to say I REALLY love Ekar (I have it on 2 bikes) but nothing beats a great electronic gruppo. Campag will probably introduce 13sp Super Record EPS with no mechanical...you'll be lucky if they even release rim brakes.
This is all nice and stuff! But if we are going fully electric why are we still using the T-rex arm shifter?! I would love to see actual inovation from the main brands on shifting technology. No just another "with lasers" version! Or Just buy the patent from supre drive and make it better! I'm sure that top pulley could work as a front derailleur and the shifter inside the rear triangle would be much better for aerodynamics!
Any predictions on when the new groupsets will be available for everybody? Or everybody that can afford it, at least. It has been quite hard to find the "old" Ultegra (8000) and Dura Ace (9100) groups. So I'm hopping that with the new ones also comes some more options of the old ones.
The new crankset isn’t not just a optical thing ……. Because it’s symmetrical there is the power meter option The ve have much trouble to do this reliability on the asymmetric design
@@Flexo_l Even if you exclude people like me who like building bikes, parts don't last forever. There are people who got new model bikes at the end of last year with new 12 speed Shimano Ultegra/DuraAce that are struggling to find new chains and cassettes.
@@cup_and_cone at least here were I leave there were no problems getting new pads and chains. But I know that there is shortage and lets hope that things will be better 😎
mechanical groupsets are far from dead! In fact, I think everything is getting crazy expensive now people for reliability and a good price rather than luxury! Because that is an electric groupset simply a luxury product that is completely unnecessary for recreational users.
Looking forward to Di3 fully wireless next. not sure how the claimed 10% bigger pad clearance in the new callipers is achieved tho. apparently they measure up exactly the same as the last generation?
sorry, you state this group set is in the 2nd teir on shimanos Road bike groupsets. That is incorrect, ie Claris: 8-speed. Sora: 9-speed. Tiagra: 10-speed. 105: 11-speed. Ultegra: 11-speed. Ultegra Di2: 11-speed electronic. Dura-Ace: 11-speed. Dura-Ace Di2: 11-speed electronic. Mechanical grousets are certainly not dead.
I prefer electronic, by far, and mainly for the function and set-and-forget characteristic. I have DA mech and di2. The electronic is far nicer, shifts better/faster, and I can dump gears a lot quicker. The battery lasts an easy 800-1,000 for me. On a budget build though, I'd have no choice but to go for mechanical. I did on my BMC. I am intrigued by Campy mechanical though, mainly out of curiosity.
Lol I don’t see your name on on the podium of the TDF either. Who cares about winning races? We buy bicycles because its a hobby, not a career. Caring about winning races pretty much means that you are either 1) trying to go professional and hope that one day someone will buy you a bicycle or 2) too poor to buy your own bicycle so hope that someone will one day sponsor you one. Either day, I’ll rather have a nice bank and be a slow cyclist, than an empty one with a van full of support bicycles that I don’t own.
@@87togabito Is your name are "We"? Or you have split personality? 😋. If you dont want to win races argument that its x% more aero or shifting is faster are weak we agree here.
the more gears you have the more difficult it gets to shift them properly. so electrical Shifting systems avoid problems like longer Cables at higher temperatures. But I would go for Sram, because there electrical grpupsets are totally wireless.
Looks like a great group set but I won’t be buying it I’ve gone over to Campagnolo as they still make a brilliant mechanical which I could ride any day of the week and don’t have to spend a small fortune to buy. Shimano has lost the plot by getting rid of mechanical in top end group sets.
Could you conceivably (partially) upgrade a 105 groupset so that it is electronic with parts from this new groupset? i.e. just the shifters, front and rear derailleurs, and battery? Could I keep my current crank, brakes, and cassette?
I love the small size. The 9150 is a perfect size for me, the 9170 was still ok though. If these are back to the mechanical lever size that’s not my preference.
MAN! eTap shifting is so much nicer.. Left = Easier, Right = Harder, Both = Front.. These Shimano shifters have TWICE AS MANY BUTTONS, and they're huge / ugly buttons!! ..and they still use an internal battery...
Watch any pro bike race. There is always someone going back to their team car with electronic shifting problems. And these bikes get daily maintenance from professional mechanics.
Yes. Any Shimano hydraulic caliper will work with any Shimano hydraulic brake lever. Mix and match any road/mtb/non-series/flatmount/postmount/2-piston/4-piston, no problem.
I just baught Fulcrum DB4 34 mm road aero wheels, aluminium and they weigh 1767 g and i really like the near silent freehub, came as a surprise for me…
The Crankset still looks dull & ugly compared to… any other cranksets? And heavier than SRAM’s. The DA obviously looks better but it is sooooo expensive.
4k for some gears that aren’t cross capable that’s awesome…. I hope this whole industry crashes and all the bastards at the top have to work at wackarnalds.
More like the traditional cyclist is dead. Bike industry now caters to American finance and tech bros earning well into six-figures. Creating these heavy, expensive, clad with unnecessary tech bikes. That only a rich tool like the former would be eager to buy.
Honestly how cares about full wireless shifting, you only have to install it once and even so lets face it, maybe 99% of us already buy the full bike assembled from store. And for the rest, is it so so dificult and time consuming to install 2 wires? If you take a decision to assembly your bike is because you like to do it and i dont believe that take maybe 1h to install 2 derailleur's 2 cables and a batery its a problem. So, yes i think is a smart decision to shimano mantain atleast wired derailleurs with a charge and forget battery package.
I think Shimano is 100% doing the right thing by nixing mechanical for Ultegra and Dura Ace. It's like Apple getting rid of the headphone jack in their phones. Mechanical groupsets are a bygone era with how good electronic groupsets are proving to be. No more futzing with cables. No more cables stretching. No more niggling adjustments. These shifters are so efficient, so smart, and soooo smooth. AND by consolidating their product lines, they can increase their manufacturing efficiency and bring prices down (they are going to have to if they want to compete with SRAM Rival which is 100% wireless and electronic and affordable).
@@andrzejfabianski4948 I think it's competition. If given the choice between a bike fitted with mechanical 105 or electronic Rival and the cost difference is sub $200, which do you think consumers will pick? In fact, consumers will start picking the Rival AXS equipped rig ahead of the Ultegra Di2 rig because you still get electronic 12sp, and you save about $1000.
No it's not competition. People are just dumb enough to get financing for things they never need. All pros of electric shifting is meaningles for majority cyclists. Especially for the price 4x+ the mechanical equivalent 2yrs back. Sheeps needs to be shaved...
What are Shimano doing with the gear ratios 🙄 no 53/39 is criminal. Worse, anyone who needs to be able to select a 36:34 gear should be on mountain bike or ebike. Yet shimano are catering for such nonsense on a road racing groupset?
Hey Tommy some of us get old 68, and a flat ride for me is at least 1200 ft elev. When I first started racing on 53/42 with a 13-21 and I arrogantly thought if you needed a bigger gear than a 21 you should unmount and walk because you would be going less than 9 mph. Besides Shimano wants you to buy Durace. Get a Campagnolo crankset instead. Looks better and won’t delaminate.
@@kmmck Shimano are all over the shop. They make Ultegra the same as dura ace but with heavier (more durable and less likely to delaminate) materials, yet they provide gearing that should be saved for 105 or lower. I mean really, a 36:34? Would anyone worry about shifting performance if you’re going that slow 🙄 fat barristers will buy dura ace anyway, so why punish the rest of us with crap ratios on Ultegra?
Some of us ride over 25% grades! Admittedly I ride them with a lowest gear 34:32 on my climbing bike and I would appreciate a 11-34. I have a 53/39, 11-25 10spd for my racing crit bike though. It all depends what riding you are doing
Nah, electronic is the future. The only way road cycling will ever progress is if the industry shoves it down their throat. It took 10 years to stomp out rim brakes from the mtb community . Glad to see that it’s happening quicker in road bike; in 5 years or less we shdnt see any more new rim brake bicycles. Same for high end mechanical group sets too I’m guessing
Is Shimano making a HUGE mistake by abandoning mechanical road groupsets at the top level? Would a true wireless groupset have been even better, even if it meant lower battery life? 👇
It’s a big shame that the mechanical version has gone but I’m just glad they kept a rim brake option.
Semi-wireless is totally fine for me and yes, abandoning mechanical on high-end groupsets is quite the mistake.
Abandoning just mechanical? At this point it appears they've abandoned both mechanical and electronic by how hard it is to actually get new components.
Yep, just upgraded two bikes to Dura Ace and Ultegra mechanical while I can
It's kind of like when framemakers stopped adding downtube shifter bosses, or Apple stopped adding 3.5mm headphone jacks. Whether you agree with it or not, it's a relentless evolution. Sometimes it's an evolution to a better standard, other times it's a way to invigorate a stagnant revenue stream. Maybe this is a combination of both.
Been riding this group (not the wheels) for a period. If I remind to visit this vid again, I'm happy to answer your question bout the groupset. Not bout weight ;) Things I can say bout it: coming from dura ace di2 the ultegra is the best i've ridden. It's different, smarter, It has been tought bout it. I like the new shifters a LOT. Yes It shifts faster, and better under pressure. It goes in a sleep mode when for a period not shifted, thereby it "misses" the first shift. Further it had never missed a shift.
Not been dissapointed, no regrets here.
Mechanical Ultegra is not dead. I still prefer it over wireless anyday. Especially when it comes to the price.
It's dead and you're a zombie
I mean, they’re not making it anymore, so… yeah, I’d call that dead.
Why would you prefer the mechanical ? Do you also prefer coaches over cars?
@@vodizzzle uh no. 😤 It's just simple and it works. Had been for years now. Di2 is just like electric cars these days, meh they are cool but aren't replacing the world anytime soon.
@@rdcanyon😂
"Mechanical Ultegra is Dead!" **Looks at my ol' relieable** "You OK there bud? They're saying you died."
We still think the current mechanical version is an extremely reliable groupset and for the time being is still seen on plenty of new bikes. However, no new mechanical groupset suggests it is the beginning of the end!
Lol you still ride horses and wooden wheels?
@@bikeradar there is a saying where I come from tell him he’s dreaming.
Definitely want to see the head to head of dura-ace vs ultegra!
I am currently using one on my aethos. The rear shifting is laggy sometimes. Easily scratchable chainset, chain is a bit noisy when you cross it. Battery lasts for two and half month with a moderate riding (2 times a week for 60 km each) or maybe I have been shifting. Lot :). breaks are very good but needs frequent adjustments. The groupset is better than others and still needs to be perfected like it’s predecessors
Yeah abandoning mechanical is mistake
It'd be interesting to know whether or not the crank arm failure issue has been resolved. And I think your scales probably need recalibration, it's rare a manufacturer over estimates the weight on most of those parts 😉
Amen!! When I heard about this amd how hollowtech is Made, two clamshells, it looks like SRAM solid carbons are getting my eye
Dude I've had this sitting in a box since January. The trick is ordering individual components from German online retailers , also comes out cheaper than ordering the entire groupset at once, believe it or not
I had this sitting in a box because my frame only came in last week
I'm currently building up Ultegra 6800 and Ultegra 6870 groupsets. Can't wait to finish. eBay is a bountiful BOON for wrongly perceived 'dying' groupsets.😝😝😝
My ultegra 6800 shifts much nicer than my ultegra 8020
People either have to much money or are fools for the sake of 1extra cog 10 or 11 cogs are plenty
As a cyclist of 14 years.. i really wished they kept a mechanical version.
I've a couple of bikes i used to be proud of but are now kept in storage and only brought out once or twice a year, and making sure a 14yo bike is in good riding condition is basically hose down and tightening cables.
Any electronic bikes i buy from here on would likely not survive to being a "classic" 10, 20 years down the road. And that's a pity.
The biggest question is why would you bother keeping a bike for that long?
I can understand being too lazy to buy a new bike, but I think that even laziness has its limits.
I change my bike every 2-3 years. Just bought a SL7, and thinking of changing it to the new Orbea aero or perhaps a dogma F. This way you keep your bike’s resale value up, and you het a new toy to play with ever so often.
Bikes are consumables; you use them, they spoil, and you just get a new one. It’s that simple.
@@87togabito why not? It still works as well as it always has.
There are people choose something they love and keep it for a long time, and people who are fickle and can’t hold onto anything for long.
And no, bikes are not consumables. Tires and brake pads are.
Oh and PS: I do buy new bikes. I just don’t need to sell my old ones to be able to afford another.
@@87togabito Bikes are most definitely not consumables. Yes, they won't last forever, but their lifespan should be at least 10 years minimum barring unusual use cases, and typically more like 20+ years. I'm currently on a 14 year old frame, works great.
Too lazy to buy a new bike? Sounds like you might be too lazy to take good care of your bike lmao
@@87togabito It depends what kind of bike u are riding, If you going with the modern bike than 'Yes' u change it 2-3 yrs. But if you're bulding a custom bikes like the Bastion, Pegerotti, Passoni, Stelbel, Festka, Sarto etc than is worth the keep. Mechanical is always good to keep especially Camapagnolo, u hardly find them and noone wanted to sell them. Todays bikes is like an Iphone they keep changing design but minimal performance and quality ride just more marketing BS .
I like mechanical gear shifting, less to go wrong & easy to fix when it does!
I have bikes with each: mechanical and electronic. I would say that what you describe is a two street. If you find yourself in a remote spot, with a 'down' di2 system, you have measures that you can take to shift into an appropriate gear (crash mode). Likewise, my mechanical failures have always been due to a snapped cable - - also with measures that you can take to 'MacGyver' your way home in an appropriate gear - - invert your derailleur cable and tie it off, or jam a stick in the cage.
Beg to differ lol.
My mechanical would shift off every half a year or so.
But, one year in, my force has shifted just as quickly and smoothly as it has since day 1.
Quick click or two of the adjuster and gears all good again. I’m a professional cycle mechanic and love the simplicity & reliability of high end cable operated gearing. Electronic gearing is great, until it goes wrong, then it can be a right pain & expensive to repair.
There's 180g between 105 R7000 & Ultegra R8000 mechanical rim brake groups, mechanical ultegra was basically redundant once R7000 came out. I imagine sales would have been tiny for mechanical dura-ace, most laying out that kind of dosh would want Di2 so entirely understandable going in this direction. Also the bike industries propensity for wanting to run cables through the head tube isn't great for mechanical shifting or rim brake performance as the cable path is so convoluted.
Very good explanation of the logic! R8100 is quite a jump in price, so this also opens up a slot for 105 Di2.
I miss mechanical dura ace already. I don't like where industry is going.
At 5:45 you said that the front derailleur communicates wirelessly with the shifters and rear derailleur. I don't think that's correct. As I understand the rear derailleur that does all the wireless communication. The battery module also acts as a junction box so that the rear derailleur can communicate with the front derailleur.
Hi Graeme, you're correct - the rear derailleur does all of the wireless communication and the front derailleur communicates with that via the wire to the battery. I'd gone off script at that point, so apologies for the error!.
Thanks for watching! Simon
Just a quick reminder that two years ago, Ultegra 8000 sold for less than $1000 and comes in at 400g less than Dura Ace 9200 Di2. Please, someone stop the bike industry from gentrifying and cannibalizing itself.
Two years ago everything cost a lot less, largely blame the US Congress for printing 10 trillion dollars out of thin air, over 25% of every dollar ever printed.
@@jonathanzappala The effects of U.S. inflation should theoretically hold little effect on the cost of goods sold in Europe that are manufactured by a Japanese company in Thailand and Malaysia, but I'm sure you've got an internet degree in macroeconomics and will happily tell me more about how Congress, and not the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, or the U.S. Mint for that matter are responsible for the injection of cash into the economy. At a certain point you can't blame the decisions of corporations to greedily fleece consumers on the actions of the government. At a certain point you might realize that the conniving agents of industrial finance have as much to do with the economic pain you experience as the incompetence of government officials.
@@ktakashismith well if you want to be a wise guy, I have a very real degree in political science. Why is it the United States? Because no other g7 country spent a percentage of their gdp in covid relief like the USA did. The worlds largest economy sets the market. Why is it Congress and not the fed? Because Congress passed massive spending bills, and Trump and Biden signed them. I suppose it’s shimano’s fault a shipping container costs 4x what it did two years ago. I could go on but you have your mind made up. I’ve never blamed a consumer for paying the prices, but those who made them flush with free cash borrowed from the unborn generations.
@@jonathanzappala If you think COVID relief bills are the reason that shipping containers quadrupled in price, I don't know what to say other than you need to go back to Uni and pay attention in class next time. Shipping container shortages and inflation also don't account for a groupset tripling in price within the span of two years.
@KS: Problem is that there is too many sheeps who can't admit that they are willing and ready to be shaved.
For all you weight weenies!
Pair of Shifters 385g
Rear derailleur 261g
Front derailleur 119g
172.5 Crankset 52-36 749g
Cassette 11-34 340g
Chain 238g
Pair of brakes 240g
140 rotor 88g
160 rotor 108g
Total weight 2528g 5.57 pounds
isn't 105 like 2.1kg/2.5kg?
Does this weight include the battery?
@@bernardo9202 actually like 2450g
@@ridzuan786 No. The new 12 speed battery and cables add like 73grams
@@bernardo9202 After doing the math
105 disc mech Grams
Pair of Shifters 610
rear derailleur 225
front derailleur 95
crankset 713
cassette 284
chain 257
pair of brakes 294
140 rotor 121
160 rotor 133
Total: 2732 (6.023 lbs)
abandoning rim wheels too, too much marketing obligation.... why i need disk brakes if only ride on flat roads?
'IF' there is ever a dearth for mechanical parts, the Chinese Aftermarket will certainly takeoff!
Microshift (Taiwan): Am I a joke to you?
(Sore point for Taiwan and Chinese aftermarket parts: they still yet to present a groupset with full hydraulic disc brake. Users of these offerings have to settle on cable-actuated disc brake calipers)
Ugh yes keep on "killing" those older groupsets... That way i can get them for cheap
Pretty sure your total price is missing the cost of a shifter (you've only accounted for 1), as well as a Di2 battery and charger. The total cost is actually more than £2k.
Already using since January.. shifting are faster than 8070 di2.. other all same... the main benefit, I can now install sprinter shifter without tinkering around.. ( I hate a new shifter.. btw)
Personal I don't think so. I've ridden the same bike with both mechanical 105 and mechanical Ultegra, literally back to back (was torn between different colors lol). I couldn't tell a difference at all between how they performed. Di2 however had a wildly different and snappier shifting feel and genuinely felt like a true upgrade. I'm sure I'm in the minority I feel like 105 is so good that it's the only mechanical groupset shimano needs at the performance end.
With the added benefit that 105 cranksets don't crack open like Fabergé eggs, double-bonus.
That's the funny thing. People are willing to pay extra for ultegra over 105 when they perform nearly identically, just to brag. 105 mechanical has replaced ultegra mechanical and "enthuisasts" are afraid to see it.
@@vongdong10 The only realistic difference between the last-gen 105 and ultegra (aside from ~200g) was the lack of free-stroke adjustment on the disc 105 shifters. That's literally all I can think of, the rest just comes down to weight, the function was identical. Wonder if Shimano will offer a mechanical 12-speed 105...somehow I doubt it.
@kingjay you are totally right. The only difference between 105 and ultegra are pulley wheels, more aluminum, and the crankset. That’s why 105 di2 is a dumb idea. People think it will cost a lot less. All it would be is a black ultegra with a cheaper crankset. You can put a 15 chain and cassette on an ultegra 8150 as it is.
@@jonathanzappala As far as I know Campy is the only company that has successfully produced a mechanical 12-speed groupset. At a certain point, with the same cassette size, the spacing between gears becomes difficult to index properly and precisely. That's why I'm a little iffy if Shimano is willing to make the technological investment to bring 105 to the table as the only mechanical 12-speed groupset it offers. But, if the 12-speed tech carries over to GRX they might make it work.
Iconic: "on our scale it weighs . . ."
No reason for Shimano not to sell an upgrade kit for current crowd of 11sp di2 users. New firmware, new cassette and chains. Yes to that extra gear, yes to hyperglide+.
not gonna happen
There in business to sell things, that’s the only reason that counts.
Didn't expect a freebie. Just a business case for them to readily access the current mass of reluctant di2 customers. Sell the 12sp and hyperglide+ benefits. Sure, you won't get the full suite of advantages until you make the complete upgrade.
I'm lucky enough to have already installed this on my new bike build. Unfortunately, unlike the video says, you still need Shimano's computer adapter - and a new one at that. That's because firmware updates, particularly to non-rear derailleur components, cannot always be done by Bluetooth.
@BikeRadar I think you're being impersonated.
It’s the cost of the consumables that pisses me off, cassettes and chains are crazy expensive now.
When the base price of a groupset is 2x just because it's electronic, it makes it a lot easier for companies to "justify" charging 2x for the consumables. Wow, my rear derailleur costs $700, so this $70 chain must be a bargain!
Glad I got the last generation. Why would I want to charge AND have to swap shifter batteries? You just know one of those will go flat when you don't have one on you.
Not any different to snapping a gear cable when you don't have one. Maintain the bike properly and that should not be an issue.
@@MAGAIVER This is such a daft comparison - how many times have you had a mate snap a mech cable mid-ride? I've lost count of the times I've been out with friends in a group and some nimrod asks everyone to slow down because their Di2 is going flat, or they forgot to charge their AXS battery.
@@ktakashismith I've seen many mountain bike gear cables snap because people neglect their bikes. Not charging your electronic system is the same thing. I always go over my bike the night before a ride making sure everything is ok, checking the battery, just like I check the battery on my Garmin, would be part of that routine if I had electronic gears.
@@MAGAIVER Sorry, single battery is much better! Thanks for coming!
Noisy free hubs really suck. I don't want my roadbike to sound prole
Great video really appreciate it! If possible of course could we get the Dura Ace (disc) groupset too? Thank you!!
But can you ACTUALLY put 53 or 54T chainrings on with this FD? Shimano says it can only take a 52T but isnt that all down to FD adjustments to make it fit?
This is big chance for Campagnolo to come back to mainstream. As i believe many will be upset with electronic only groupset on the higher end. ( There were professional riders not wanting to switch to electronic as they believed that mechanic groupset were just more reliable and dependable) I've tried electronic and it's not for me. Wonder what is going to happen with those in 10 years . My 2008 Dura Ace is running like new
Campagnolo will soon go all EPS too. I though it weird their new Ekar gruppo was mechanical only, but then I saw the price and realized they were trying to curry favor with the rapidly expanding gravel segment and be premium yet not unobtainable. I do have to say I REALLY love Ekar (I have it on 2 bikes) but nothing beats a great electronic gruppo. Campag will probably introduce 13sp Super Record EPS with no mechanical...you'll be lucky if they even release rim brakes.
Hmm, and now Cancellara rides electronic…
This is all nice and stuff! But if we are going fully electric why are we still using the T-rex arm shifter?!
I would love to see actual inovation from the main brands on shifting technology. No just another "with lasers" version! Or Just buy the patent from supre drive and make it better!
I'm sure that top pulley could work as a front derailleur and the shifter inside the rear triangle would be much better for aerodynamics!
Any predictions on when the new groupsets will be available for everybody? Or everybody that can afford it, at least.
It has been quite hard to find the "old" Ultegra (8000) and Dura Ace (9100) groups. So I'm hopping that with the new ones also comes some more options of the old ones.
The new crankset isn’t not just a optical thing …….
Because it’s symmetrical there is the power meter option
The ve have much trouble to do this reliability on the asymmetric design
I hope that they release 105 DI2 soon 😎
As hard as it is to get any of the new groupsets, it won't matter if they do or don't.
@@cup_and_cone you can buy it with the bike 😋
@@Flexo_l Even if you exclude people like me who like building bikes, parts don't last forever. There are people who got new model bikes at the end of last year with new 12 speed Shimano Ultegra/DuraAce that are struggling to find new chains and cassettes.
@@cup_and_cone at least here were I leave there were no problems getting new pads and chains. But I know that there is shortage and lets hope that things will be better 😎
@@cup_and_cone totally agree
I will not go wireless but am looking forward to a value minded rim brake inclusive next gen 105 group
mechanical groupsets are far from dead! In fact, I think everything is getting crazy expensive now people for reliability and a good price rather than luxury! Because that is an electric groupset simply a luxury product that is completely unnecessary for recreational users.
Looking forward to Di3 fully wireless next. not sure how the claimed 10% bigger pad clearance in the new callipers is achieved tho. apparently they measure up exactly the same as the last generation?
Campagnolo! At the least your crankset won’t delaminate and prices are almost the same.
sorry, you state this group set is in the 2nd teir on shimanos Road bike groupsets. That is incorrect, ie Claris: 8-speed.
Sora: 9-speed.
Tiagra: 10-speed.
105: 11-speed.
Ultegra: 11-speed.
Ultegra Di2: 11-speed electronic.
Dura-Ace: 11-speed.
Dura-Ace Di2: 11-speed electronic.
Mechanical grousets are certainly not dead.
Do you want a cookie?
what if there's an EMP gun aimed at you during a race?
I have the new shimano and I have a lot of problems with the battery that doesn’t hold the charge. After 100 km the level of power is low.
Using coin cell batteries is a big downgrade. The only upgrade is the front derailleur shift performance.
I prefer electronic, by far, and mainly for the function and set-and-forget characteristic. I have DA mech and di2. The electronic is far nicer, shifts better/faster, and I can dump gears a lot quicker. The battery lasts an easy 800-1,000 for me. On a budget build though, I'd have no choice but to go for mechanical. I did on my BMC. I am intrigued by Campy mechanical though, mainly out of curiosity.
It's quicker... That's nice... How many races did you won because of this? Asking just out of curiosity.
Lol I don’t see your name on on the podium of the TDF either.
Who cares about winning races? We buy bicycles because its a hobby, not a career. Caring about winning races pretty much means that you are either 1) trying to go professional and hope that one day someone will buy you a bicycle or 2) too poor to buy your own bicycle so hope that someone will one day sponsor you one.
Either day, I’ll rather have a nice bank and be a slow cyclist, than an empty one with a van full of support bicycles that I don’t own.
@@87togabito Is your name are "We"? Or you have split personality? 😋. If you dont want to win races argument that its x% more aero or shifting is faster are weak we agree here.
The big question, has shimano made these levers serviceable? The 8070 are completely un-serviceable.
Shimano ultegra groupset series have a 3X crankset.?
the more gears you have the more difficult it gets to shift them properly. so electrical Shifting systems avoid problems like longer Cables at higher temperatures. But I would go for Sram, because there electrical grpupsets are totally wireless.
Are these hollow tech cranks going to continue to fail like the older versions?
Most likely, the construction seems to be quite similar.
Why rim tape on a non drilled rin?
Looks like a great group set but I won’t be buying it I’ve gone over to Campagnolo as they still make a brilliant mechanical which I could ride any day of the week and don’t have to spend a small fortune to buy. Shimano has lost the plot by getting rid of mechanical in top end group sets.
No information we haven't had for over six month, right?
Why 140 rotors if the caliper adapter says 160 or 180 only? Or will there be a 140 adapter too?
140 doesn’t need a rear adapter.
Could you conceivably (partially) upgrade a 105 groupset so that it is electronic with parts from this new groupset? i.e. just the shifters, front and rear derailleurs, and battery? Could I keep my current crank, brakes, and cassette?
No, 12 speed vs 11. Wrong lever throw.
@@aim-at-me Why would the lever throw be in any way relevant with an electronic shift?
I love the small size. The 9150 is a perfect size for me, the 9170 was still ok though. If these are back to the mechanical lever size that’s not my preference.
MAN! eTap shifting is so much nicer.. Left = Easier, Right = Harder, Both = Front.. These Shimano shifters have TWICE AS MANY BUTTONS, and they're huge / ugly buttons!! ..and they still use an internal battery...
Watch any pro bike race. There is always someone going back to their team car with electronic shifting problems. And these bikes get daily maintenance from professional mechanics.
lol, the thumbnail looks like 1960s popular mechanics
are the new calipers backward compatible with the prior generation shifters?
Yes. Any Shimano hydraulic caliper will work with any Shimano hydraulic brake lever. Mix and match any road/mtb/non-series/flatmount/postmount/2-piston/4-piston, no problem.
Just don't try mixing Shimano and Sram brakes I've seen people attempt that, great way to ruin brakes.
I just baught Fulcrum DB4 34 mm road aero wheels, aluminium and they weigh 1767 g and i really like the near silent freehub, came as a surprise for me…
Ok but they have to make it cheaper with economy of scale
Rear dear needs a clutch
I have GRX DI2 and it’s fantastic but my mechanical Ultegra is just as good and a darn sight cheaper.
Damn, that Ultegra kit is HEAVY. Why have bike parts become so bloated and heavy?
Scampi and Huret here I come.
The Crankset still looks dull & ugly compared to… any other cranksets? And heavier than SRAM’s. The DA obviously looks better but it is sooooo expensive.
4k for some gears that aren’t cross capable that’s awesome…. I hope this whole industry crashes and all the bastards at the top have to work at wackarnalds.
That should be on the Dura ace vid ;)
So ! the new crank , also consists of two glued together halves ! Hmm!.....🙄
😱🤯
#wake up shimano!
They really should have made mechanical versions as well. Guess these poor sods will have to buy 105 and be scared of being laughed at.
Huge, huge error by shimano to get ride of caliper brakes and go full di2 in top tier groups.
Wireless only. Deal breaker.
over free thousand for a groupet,crazy
So Shimano finally made right thing but again they are using one battery and wires internally 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
The derailleurs will end up being chunky and heavy if it's fully wireless.
I want to see ultegra against sram rival etap
More like the traditional cyclist is dead. Bike industry now caters to American finance and tech bros earning well into six-figures. Creating these heavy, expensive, clad with unnecessary tech bikes. That only a rich tool like the former would be eager to buy.
Nah... People just getting financing and buying bikes they dont need overpriced 3x paying in instalments 40% on the top.
You calle them hipsters if young or middle aged crisis victims if older.
overpriced gadgets for compulsive buyers, not for true cyclists.
For dentists, solicitors and those relying on financing willing to get +10 to ego lol.
Yay more stuff we can't buy
Ugly chunky shifters look like the old rs ones 9170 are definitely better looking
What is this guy on? Mechanical ultra is dead..... Wtf??
Honestly how cares about full wireless shifting, you only have to install it once and even so lets face it, maybe 99% of us already buy the full bike assembled from store. And for the rest, is it so so dificult and time consuming to install 2 wires? If you take a decision to assembly your bike is because you like to do it and i dont believe that take maybe 1h to install 2 derailleur's 2 cables and a batery its a problem. So, yes i think is a smart decision to shimano mantain atleast wired derailleurs with a charge and forget battery package.
Dainty hands for a dainty boy.
I think Shimano is 100% doing the right thing by nixing mechanical for Ultegra and Dura Ace. It's like Apple getting rid of the headphone jack in their phones. Mechanical groupsets are a bygone era with how good electronic groupsets are proving to be. No more futzing with cables. No more cables stretching. No more niggling adjustments. These shifters are so efficient, so smart, and soooo smooth. AND by consolidating their product lines, they can increase their manufacturing efficiency and bring prices down (they are going to have to if they want to compete with SRAM Rival which is 100% wireless and electronic and affordable).
You really think it's efficiency of production that keeps high prices? Sooo naive.... ;)
@@andrzejfabianski4948 I think it's competition. If given the choice between a bike fitted with mechanical 105 or electronic Rival and the cost difference is sub $200, which do you think consumers will pick? In fact, consumers will start picking the Rival AXS equipped rig ahead of the Ultegra Di2 rig because you still get electronic 12sp, and you save about $1000.
No it's not competition. People are just dumb enough to get financing for things they never need. All pros of electric shifting is meaningles for majority cyclists. Especially for the price 4x+ the mechanical equivalent 2yrs back. Sheeps needs to be shaved...
@@JanKowalski-pe9lo 100% agree.
Sounds like a marketing blurb from Shimano.
What are Shimano doing with the gear ratios 🙄 no 53/39 is criminal. Worse, anyone who needs to be able to select a 36:34 gear should be on mountain bike or ebike. Yet shimano are catering for such nonsense on a road racing groupset?
Hey Tommy some of us get old 68, and a flat ride for me is at least 1200 ft elev. When I first started racing on 53/42 with a 13-21 and I arrogantly thought if you needed a bigger gear than a 21 you should unmount and walk because you would be going less than 9 mph. Besides Shimano wants you to buy Durace. Get a Campagnolo crankset instead. Looks better and won’t delaminate.
@@kmmck Shimano are all over the shop. They make Ultegra the same as dura ace but with heavier (more durable and less likely to delaminate) materials, yet they provide gearing that should be saved for 105 or lower. I mean really, a 36:34? Would anyone worry about shifting performance if you’re going that slow 🙄 fat barristers will buy dura ace anyway, so why punish the rest of us with crap ratios on Ultegra?
Or gravel
You can get 54/40 with Dura Ace.
Some of us ride over 25% grades! Admittedly I ride them with a lowest gear 34:32 on my climbing bike and I would appreciate a 11-34. I have a 53/39, 11-25 10spd for my racing crit bike though. It all depends what riding you are doing
Nah, electronic is the future. The only way road cycling will ever progress is if the industry shoves it down their throat.
It took 10 years to stomp out rim brakes from the mtb community . Glad to see that it’s happening quicker in road bike; in 5 years or less we shdnt see any more new rim brake bicycles. Same for high end mechanical group sets too I’m guessing
Well... I think you've been smoked by the guy on mechanical with rim brakes bike. That caused trauma no doubt lol... Another barrister...