Jehovah's Witnesses practice the same kind of barbaric shunning. Our son was disfellowshipped from the religion at age 20 and we, his parents, were instructed to cut off all ties with him. We refused and totally lost our standing and "privileges" in the religion. It worked out well, though, as the mindless cruelty of the cult got us to research its origin and history and we were soon cult free. Our son is now 50 and has a wonderful life. My wife passed, but I reinvented myself and my post-JW life has been infinitely happier and more productive.
the JW's did you a favor. they are false profit$ anyways since they claimed the world would end with Jesus returning by 1975/76 and well we are still here. Now the liars claim they never said that. I remember differently.
He was not banned from a church representing Jesus but from a church representing the Pharisee. Even through the Pharisees are not powerful today. The spirit of a Pharisee is very much alive and well. These type of people would find fault with Jesus Christ if he was walking and preaching today. Just like they did 2000 years ago.
We were pleased to accidentally see your u tube. We knew John when we owned some property in Barton Creek. We have often wondered how he was doing. It is the church's loss to excommunicate him. He is an incredible person, and highly intelligent. One of the finest we have ever met.
It reminds me of the stories where the Pharisees were rebuking Jesus’s disciples for doing small survival tasks on the Sabbath. It’s not the spirit of the law.
Hey. Thanks for the video. I'm from there too, John is actually my cousin, his mother was my father's sister. We left Belize in 1983 and moved to Canada, where we currently live. When we left Barton Creek John was still living there too, we were there several years ago and John invited us to attend his church at Agua Viva, that's not the church that excommunicated him though.
His love and compassion for the safety of his fellow brothers should not have carried such a heavy punishment. I am saddened to hear this. I wish this kind man peace. God knows the truth. That is all that matters. He is forgiven.
I was adopted and raised in a Mennonite home, not as conservative as this one in John’s story but still very conservative, I never became a member of their church, because I just never made sense to me the way they did things, even though I never became a Mennonite I still have a great relationship with my family and many friends in the community, they’re good people for the most part but they are human and have their flaws also as we all do, this type of story is a fairly common occurrence in the conservative Mennonite and Amish circles, excommunication for a single broken rule or regulation doesn’t seem right, where is the forgiveness, we as humans constantly fall short of the glory of God and he constantly forgives and gives us another chance.
Cults rarely have room for human errors. Obey or be cast out. One rule breaker might evoke some forbidden ideas among other members. Fear is the tool of cult leaders, not love and compassion.
This was really really interesting. I was a member of the old order amish and I left with my wife and children when I was 38 years old. The amish shun us. I can really relate.
My grandparents were Brethren, I was baptized Mennonite (General Conference). My wife and I were married in the Mennonite church. After about 2 years, she began to notice a few things (she was not raised in the church- actually no church of any sort). She said that the faith seemed to be around works - more of a social gospel. The cup of water is given, they just don’t tell you in Whose name it comes. It caused me to think. We began attending a nondenominational church and have not looked back.
@@bipslone8880 Assuming you are a Westerner and individualism in interpretation and assumptions is all you know culturally anyway. Historically that certainly isn't the case.
That's a huge deal for him to admit that another religion may be the true one and there is no way to know. He's really had an awakening after leaving ! Which is why religions discourage learning about other religions, we would all realize how similar they are and give up arguing and simply admit no one knows!
Not all churches discourage learning about other religions. In fact, it can help when trying to get familiar with someone, so as to share the gospel. Also, if you think Christianity and other religions are just the same, then you don't have a good understanding of Christianity. (Not to be mean or anything) :)
What a wise man! Thinking for himself. He's right, how does anyone know if what they believe is the "correct" way. He's better off not being in that community anymore.
By the long-term outcomes. Few are known for the love and forgiveness that Amish / Mennonite people have been known for over centuries of time, so that suggests that there is either more to the story that is not understood, or that this is an aberration. They do expect their brothers and sisters to keep their lifestyle agreements with one another. Note that they told him that they wouldn’t have made a big deal out of it if he had been open about what he believed was necessary in that circumstance, but they obviously believed his choices went beyond that. The character of their faith and community can still be seen in John himself.
@@ReflectedMiles I've been where John is... I left voluntarily. The love and forgiveness you talk about is not a reality. If you do not talk the talk and think exactly like the group you are marginalized and it causes serious emotional pain. That is NOT love, but you'd have to experience it to really understand. This is NOT a Beverly Lewis or Hallmark movie. It's real life and has NOTHING to do with what the Bible actually teaches. I feel John's pain.
@@jeffpearson6413 It actually has much to do with the disciplined Faith that the Scriptures and early witnesses to those describe, though it sometimes strays outside of those boundaries. Martin Luther invented the idea that Scriptures stood alone, separate from the Church, in 1518. I guess Christians in the previous 1,500 years were just clueless, then…. I have been around these communities for three decades, and love and forgiveness (and I would add humility in many cases) is an extraordinary characteristic among them, actually, inside and out. Compromise, however, is typically not well tolerated, nor should it be if they intend to remain who they are into the future as they have for centuries past. The news networks were trying to cover the events and their community’s response continuously for the week or so after the Amish school shooting in Nickel Mines, PA. The love and forgiveness shown towards the family of the perpetrator was the subject of books and articles for a long time after that. Some people were very upset by it, actually. Since that time, the commitment to that family has continued, and I see that sort of attitude and action from them all the time in smaller, less public ways. The fact that they are so different, and so separate, though, ticks a lot of people off, including those disciplined from within (or voluntarily leaving to avoid it). The idea that they stand against the freedoms of the individual is a serious mischaracterization. They believe strongly in voluntarism, being one of only two churches that James Madison identified as supporting the Founders’ efforts to craft a separation of church and state, and 100 years earlier had persuaded the Quakers in Germantown to make the first petition against slavery in the colonial US. If other churches have those kinds of outcomes, I am unfamiliar with them. If you disagreed with the fundamentals of their faith, then that is up to you, but it’s important for them to preserve those even if it seems unloving of them to do so. They are certainly far from perfect, but their track record in outcomes over long periods of time is also hard to dismiss.
I work with these people as a missions pastor. They are missing the essential part of the gospel= Saved by grace through faith alone and not by works. Ephesians 2:8. They have a works( men's rules, not bible) based religion. Therefore a tainted religion. True religion and peace is found in Jesus Christ Alone. We can't let tainted and man based religion keep us from being reconciled with God our creator through His Son Jesus.Haleluja!
I have relatives who were and are Mennonites whom resided in Berne Indiana. For the most part, they lived just like us. During the Vietnam war, my uncle was in the Army, but he could not be a combatant.
There are Mennonite contractors there too. We always called them the electric Amish since they drove equipment. Didn’t have internet, but they had fax.
What the people who booted John out have missed is the spirit of the law. They instead have chosen the letter of the law, which is a stain against them as souls. They missed the boat.
This is NOT how most Mennonites, Amish and other Anabaptists groups believe. The true believer seeks to honor God by doing what the Bible says and not in shallow man made rules.
Very Interesting, yes I grow up in the same Community, this Man was one of the strictest one in that community , but he has change so much , he is my Cousin , it is very hard to get out of it when a Person is train that way all his growing up Years, but Religion is like the world , chosen by the majority, and rule with Authority. we never learn , or experience how wonderful God's Love is as long as we are in fear of Mans made rules. I remember when I left , I felt relived an yet I felt much more direct connected to God . God has only one Family , chosen and accepted by his Grace , Religious Names are they key to divide People . they are Man made , but taken as God's word , that's why Grace is the Key for all of us .Roman chapter 4 and 5 .
There's a guy in this thread that is just so certain these people are the most loving and forgiving, but when you are on the inside and get set free you know the truth that an outsider will never comprehend. So glad you are set free. My wife and I came from the outside and the Mennonites nearly destroyed my mind. We left, but not without serious effects to our life and family. We do understand Biblical Grace now better than ever before!
The Amish and Mennonites can be very strict. We do commercial work and have witnessed the Amish cursing when they get angry. So restrictions only apply to those that are not considered close Knit.
But Papa ix you didn't join their church did you... Trust me. If you had to follow their culture and practices you would not think so highly of them. As individuals Mennonites can be very nice and friendly, but the truth is you are LOST and Going to Hell in their eyes, but they won't tell you how to get saved.
One thing I don’t get. How could John, never having touched a machine in his life, get into a bull dozer and instantly know how to turn it on and use the controls? It doesn’t make sense.
It makes perfect sense. He's smart and mechanically inclined. He's seen these things operated most of his life unlike MOST modern people today that can only play with electronic technology.
I was banned from the Apostolic Pentecostal church I had attended for 20 years, all because of people telling tales and because I didn't worship the "right" way during service, not allowed to associate with members, especially my best friend because I might influence them to leave that church and go elsewhere. I am still Apostolic, I just belong to a different church under a different pastor now; have come to a truce with the lol leadership of the other one and the pastors wife has hinted that they would like for me to come back. Not happening, too much water under that bridge.
One of the deeper problems with Mennonites is that the authority is in the hands of the bishops and they do to their people as the Catholic church does to its people. Not allow to read the bible or read it in another language but not allowed to understand it because that is what the bishops are for but the way of life is more important than what the bible teaches for them. If you listen long enough you will hear that their way of live takes precedence over bible teaching. It is a commune of cult like behavior.
Many religions have beliefs that hinder the grow of their devotees in many ways. I worked as a volunteer in our local fire and rescue for 16 years. One afternoon we received a call for help by a man’s wife. I was the first on scene and found her husband was lying in a warm tub, fully clothed and ashen in color. Blood was on the ceiling the walls the floor. He attempted suicide by cutting himself multiple times at his arteries, stabbing his chest times and slitting his own throat. He was still alive when I arrived and started working on him. His religion would not allow for a blood transfusion. His wife gave permission for the procedure. Their house was up for sale shortly after that. I hope he didn’t divorce her for saving his life.
My great grandpa was excommunicated from the mennonite church and oddly, this man resembles him a lot. My ancestor went off and started his own branch of mennonite church. None of his descendents are plain.
I spent some time in that area several years ago, I got within two miles of the Guatemalan border in the mountains. The Amish/ Mennonite’s would build sheds, load them onto wagons and pull them with a team of horses to the delivery spot. There was not a tremendous amount of traffic on the hummingbird hi way so it wasn’t terribly hard to get around them. It was interesting to say the least and the howlers were loud!
Obviously what happened to him is part of his life lesson. It's not necessarly a bad thing because it has made him think outside of the box he has been in. I have to wonder why the people of the mennonite community would think it is worse to move the machine, rather than leave it there to potentially fall over and kill someone.
My family was excommunicated when I was 5. Many years later I went back as an educated person and tried to educate them but there was no need to confuse them with facts as their minds were made up. If John had not done that and some one had been killed, they would say it was God`s will.
I live amongst Mennonite people and they would most likely say that if it fell on someone and killed them then that was the will of god... when children die in farm accidents they don't spend time trying to do things safer next time, or regretting what led to it, they simply mourn that God has chosen to take the child away. It's odd to others but seems like part of their belief system (predestination)
Almost for sure he was member of the Noah Hoover Mennonites (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Hoover_Mennonite) and the real reason he was banned was not the fact what technology he used but his refusal to stop it, when asked to do so. When a person joins such a community through adult baptism this person makes a commitment to obey the rules. Therefore breaking the rules and not to repent when asked to do so results in the ban. By the way, I studied traditional Anabaptist communities for decades, reading all the literature and living with several such communities for a longer time.
Members of a church should not have to live in fear of being punished or banned. This is not what God's love is about. Love and forgiveness are what make us human. This man is a gem. His former church is not and will answer to God on why they ban His children.
@@sydneyevans2637 and because god loves his people, he instructed them to kick the bad ones out of the city, so they don’t mislead the rest of the people.
@@lanceroark6386 BUT what he did was not against God's moral law, nor is it a sin. The Amish and Mennonites who have no forgiveness over a non Biblical concept that has nothing to do with what the Bible says, they are doing wrong
@@lanceroark6386 Driving and moving a bulldozer to save persons from harm is not being bad .... and you used little god .... that's not our one true God ... have you read the Bible ...
God in his wisdom gave us this amazing gift of volition, (free will) what we do with it can be quite different from our neighbor but, every day we choose. Not with our head but with our heart.
This is really sad. Jesus said, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:11,12)." Since when is law and rules, more important than love?
The Bible says - Don't Judge. Now this doesn't mean don't have an opinion. We all have opinions. It means don't be condemning others. Let God do his own job. Each of us has our hands full just keeping ourself in line and we generally don't do a good job of it. But wouldn't you agree that hypocrisy is everywhere. In some ways I see it in myself and I don't like it. It reminds me of a funny saying( well, funny in a way if it weren't so true) It goes like this: I'm humble and I'm proud of it.😁😭
It's hard to feel the love coming out of these really strict religious communities. People want to make excuses for them, but honestly, when they make such a big deal out of authority and obedience, they destroy the value of their teachings. Most Christians have nothing to do with Jesus at all, and never have throughout the history of the church.
I bought a shed from Mennonites and the young man who dropped it of unloaded it with a remote control operated machine drove it in the yard...he was not hired help but part of the family
see, this is why i dont want to start youtube. you think you're going to make a cute lil space away from the eyes of your peers, but here i am looking into the obscure Mennonite communities of south America's Belize and Peru, and i find a person i went to school with! lmfao. really cool what you're doing though bro, b safe!
I thing the music is o.k., but distracting during the time the interview is going on, almost too loud. Very hard to hear the voice. Appreciate peoples discussion of "the letter of the law".
“With or without religion, bad people will do bad things, good people will do good things. But to get good people to do bad things, you’re going to need religion.” Steven Weinberg
I work with these people as a missions pastor. They are missing the essential part of the gospel= Saved by grace through faith alone and not by works. Ephesians 2:8. They have a works( men's rules, not bible) based religion. Therefore a tainted religion. True religion and peace is found in Jesus Christ Alone. We can't let tainted and man based religion keep us from being reconciled with God our creator through His Son Jesus.Hallelujah!
Yes they will answer for this!! This is wrong on so many levels. They must no believe inJesus becuase if they did they would know that not to judge people by what they eat or drink or what they touch .
The light shined upon him and he did what was right, its thier lose and im sure they will be judged for what they smdid to him for saving the kives of the workers, soo its possible he was chosen to act as god would have wanted but i dont think being punished was right, but if took him out of such a situation then lets say gods hand and thinking led him, thanks for this video, blessing upon him.
Reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Klingon Council turned their backs on Worf as if he didn't exist. A disfellowshipping? Excommunicating? Whatever works, but at least it isn't a stoning which was a favourite way of getting rid of an unruly, undisciplined and non-compliant individual in our history. It was always the screaming eager ones who threw the first stone.
Yes, we only know what we know. When in hard times or fearful times, we tend to return to what we were raised with., asking for protection or help. I've ended up with a bit of several denominations at this age. And have come to my own beliefs basically. This is what most seem to do eventually. But I'll always believe in God, there just may be a few differences in how i think He deals with us.
Fundamentally, Mennonite philosophy states that a group should be self contained and not dependent on the outside world for anything, not even outside labor and machinery. To be dependent on the outside world for anything is wrongful. The outside world can disappear and the community would go on without any difficulty at all. Practicality can play a role, whether ye like it or not. Local laws can also play a role. Can ye take a buggy on a speedy, busy highway?
From what I saw in the local community they were not dependent on the outside world at all, but occasionally (to my knowledge) would hire outsiders to get some work done faster. Also for economic trade. The first time I was in the community was with a fruit seller who drove in to pick up produce from the Mennonites to take to market. On the highways there, there was occasionally a horse and buggy driving on the side.
@@G-Frog Belize favors Mennonite settlers. (The Kleine Gemeinde have treaty with the government.) In time perhaps Belize will be majority old way Mennonite. Maybe?
@@G-Frog I am extremely knowledgeable about Mennonite and Quaker beliefs. However, it has been 35 years since I lived in Belize. Back then, Spanish Lookout was a hardware store, a meeting house, a one room school, and the most beautiful pastures I have ever seen. I remember the little red birds that flew from fence post to fence post along with me as I walked down the gravel road. Things have changed very greatly. Originally both groups were free and extremely honest. However, corruption is very powerful and now dominates. If ye visit a meeting and it consists of Bible teaching, the community has become corrupt. Originally meetings were meetings and not a place for praising the Roman Bible. What community did you visit? I worry your video is one more worldly video leading people away from the free and plain life.
@@myeflatley1150 I was in Spanish lookout and also Springfield briefly. Because I was doing a lot of hitchhiking around the country I probably passed by and through many Mennonite communities without knowing it. There were times I was picked up by Mennonites, or rode with them in the bed or cab of a truck as others drove
SOME CHURCHES BELIEVE THEY ARE ANOTHER ELIGIBLE AUTHORITY OF ONES LIFE , AND A TAX COLLECTION AGENCY FOR THEIR OWN TREASURY AND USE!! SEPARATION OF STATE AND GOVERNMENT, ALWAYS!!
He can simply join a less strict group if he doesn't want to live according to their rules. There are many reasonable Mennonite groups who are generally traditional, but don't reject technology. He's probably an Old Colony Mennonite. They are so backward and uneducated that they make the Amish seem modern. The Amish have sophisticated machines pulled by teams of horses that could have done the job, if they were there. However, the Old Colony people tend to be ignorant and backwards. They don't have a reason for how they live except tradition. It's very sad he came from that background.
He saved lives! Reminds me of when Jesus broke the sabbath (a number of times,) he healed a man on the sabbath and the Pharisees accused him of desecrating Moses Law. He said, "You hypocrites! How many of you if he has an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, would pull it out on the Sabbath Day?! How much *better* a man is than an ass or ox!"
I don't believe the unsafe working condition story for a second,🤨, he just wanted to show all his ignorant Amish buddies how he could drive that piece of English machinery,😆, if he would tell the truth, I'll bet that wasn't his first time driving it,😉, I'd be more worried about the sin of lying way more than driving.
Do you think this particular Mennonite community is just extremely harsh? What this man did was to save his fellow human beings from possible danger, but he’s thrown out of his community for it? I know they can be wonderful neighbors when compared with everything going on in the world, but this just seemed so harsh to remove a man from his family and at least 40 grandchildren for doing what was right. Have they never heard of John 3:16? Or, are they just so obtuse they can’t see the correlation? This man gave up everything he loved to help a fellow human being. Very sad.
Paul explains in Galatians that we are set free from the law and religiosity. We are free in Christ. The Church, the laws you keep will do nothing for you when we meet Christ. He just want a personal relationship with you. Galatians.
Jesus asked us to live the spirit of the law, not just the letter, but He prized obedience as well. Seems some felt this was a lack of faith on John's part that he doubted God's Providence, while some might find the community legalistic and overly concerned with the letter of the law. Lots to meditate on here and review in light of the Bible and Christ's teaching.
Maybe now John will give his life to Jesus Christ our Only Lord and Savior !....1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, .. . Heb 13:5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.
How is that walking in love by kicking a fellow Christian out of the community? He was trying to help save a life. They cannot see the forest for the trees 🤔
Believe the gospel of our lord Jesus christ, death, burial and resurrection, and repent. You don't need them. You need Jesus. Blessings to all. In Jesus name, amen.
It's probably pointless to even mention this because few if any Mennonites would read it, but the obvious question is how would ANY Christian, regardless of his denomination, expect Jesus to react in a situation like this. It sounds so much like His dealings with the religious Jews. "Was it right to do such-and-such on the sabbath?" etc. What was the right thing to do, even if it's not the religiously-correct thing to do? How could anybody who calls himself a Christian possibly be offended by somebody doing something to avert danger to other human beings? What's more important, the rules or the people? Jesus spent His entire life, from the moment He was conceived in the womb, breaking rules!
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Jehovah's Witnesses practice the same kind of barbaric shunning. Our son was disfellowshipped from the religion at age 20 and we, his parents, were instructed to cut off all ties with him. We refused and totally lost our standing and "privileges" in the religion. It worked out well, though, as the mindless cruelty of the cult got us to research its origin and history and we were soon cult free. Our son is now 50 and has a wonderful life. My wife passed, but I reinvented myself and my post-JW life has been infinitely happier and more productive.
Religion destroys everything!
I'm glad to hear that after what happened you feel happier and more productive today
Great testimony!
That’s incredible to read.
the JW's did you a favor. they are false profit$ anyways since they claimed the world would end with Jesus returning by 1975/76 and well we are still here. Now the liars claim they never said that. I remember differently.
He was not banned from a church representing Jesus but from a church representing the Pharisee. Even through the Pharisees are not powerful today. The spirit of a Pharisee is very much alive and well. These type of people would find fault with Jesus Christ if he was walking and preaching today. Just like they did 2000 years ago.
Facts. Remember the fourth commandment KJV
@@patriciacole8773 fully agree.
Amen
Jesus was reputedly a pharisee himself.
@@brianfitzpatrick7372 No. Jesus was NOT a Pharisee.
Those people are Selfrightious!!
God will have nothing to do with them. Blessings to this man.
The LORD moved him out of that cult.
We were pleased to accidentally see your u tube. We knew John when we owned some property in Barton Creek. We have often wondered how he was doing. It is the church's loss to excommunicate him. He is an incredible person, and highly intelligent. One of the finest we have ever met.
It reminds me of the stories where the Pharisees were rebuking Jesus’s disciples for doing small survival tasks on the Sabbath. It’s not the spirit of the law.
Exactly. They add their own rules and claim it’s Gods rules.
on the outside they wanna appear good but in their hearts deceitfully wicked
What a sad yet wonderful story. No one should demand their way of thinking on another. He has been liberated.
The word liberated is so true, but his former community would use the word "LIBERAL" now that he drives a pick-up. It's a cult and that's a sad fact.
Hey. Thanks for the video. I'm from there too, John is actually my cousin, his mother was my father's sister. We left Belize in 1983 and moved to Canada, where we currently live. When we left Barton Creek John was still living there too, we were there several years ago and John invited us to attend his church at Agua Viva, that's not the church that excommunicated him though.
Oh wow that's so interesting that you are related to John! I encountered a lot of Mennonites in Belize that had Canadian connections
That’s fantastic to read !
I know John aswell. I am belizean know leaving in Canada. My inlaw is related to John. My father in law is John wall
His love and compassion for the safety of his fellow brothers should not have carried such a heavy punishment.
I am saddened to hear this.
I wish this kind man peace. God knows the truth. That is all that matters. He is forgiven.
No good deed goes unpunished.😉
This is actually a great comment. It is the same burden Jesus had dying on the cross to save us. Hopefully he can look at it this way as well.
God knows the truth? I have no idea what that means
I was adopted and raised in a Mennonite home, not as conservative as this one in John’s story but still very conservative, I never became a member of their church, because I just never made sense to me the way they did things, even though I never became a Mennonite I still have a great relationship with my family and many friends in the community, they’re good people for the most part but they are human and have their flaws also as we all do, this type of story is a fairly common occurrence in the conservative Mennonite and Amish circles, excommunication for a single broken rule or regulation doesn’t seem right, where is the forgiveness, we as humans constantly fall short of the glory of God and he constantly forgives and gives us another chance.
Cults rarely have room for human errors. Obey or be cast out. One rule breaker might evoke some forbidden ideas among other members. Fear is the tool of cult leaders, not love and compassion.
This was really really interesting. I was a member of the old order amish and I left with my wife and children when I was 38 years old. The amish shun us. I can really relate.
My grandparents were Brethren, I was baptized Mennonite (General Conference). My wife and I were married in the Mennonite church. After about 2 years, she began to notice a few things (she was not raised in the church- actually no church of any sort). She said that the faith seemed to be around works - more of a social gospel. The cup of water is given, they just don’t tell you in Whose name it comes. It caused me to think. We began attending a nondenominational church and have not looked back.
Bad people! Jesus never taught that!
They're all about forgiveness until you do that!
@@MGreen-vz6yb Christianity is whatever you want it to be
@@bipslone8880 Assuming you are a Westerner and individualism in interpretation and assumptions is all you know culturally anyway. Historically that certainly isn't the case.
what a wise & loving man
That's a huge deal for him to admit that another religion may be the true one and there is no way to know. He's really had an awakening after leaving ! Which is why religions discourage learning about other religions, we would all realize how similar they are and give up arguing and simply admit no one knows!
He can question it because he doesn’t know Christianity. A real Christian who knows Christ knows it’s the ONLY way. The Bible is very clear
JESUS is the way the TRUTH and the life no man cometh unto the FATHER but by HIM! A child can understand!
Yes!
Not all churches discourage learning about other religions. In fact, it can help when trying to get familiar with someone, so as to share the gospel.
Also, if you think Christianity and other religions are just the same, then you don't have a good understanding of Christianity. (Not to be mean or anything) :)
@@dittohead7044 "A real Christian"..... LMAO.... over 15,000 different denominations.... and you think that you are a real Christian....LMAO, get real
I'm an ex old order Mennonite. I truly can relate
You are right .Judge not that ye be not judged .Some people do not think about what they are doing. thank you for sharing.GOD will bless you.
That’s what legalism can do. Make”religious” people be cruel. God bless you John! I’m sure you’ll keep on loving them and praying for them.
That's what religion makes you do.
@@bipslone8880 🙄
I loved this! How exciting to go on adventures and meet people genuinely worth knowing.
What a wise man! Thinking for himself. He's right, how does anyone know if what they believe is the "correct" way. He's better off not being in that community anymore.
By the long-term outcomes. Few are known for the love and forgiveness that Amish / Mennonite people have been known for over centuries of time, so that suggests that there is either more to the story that is not understood, or that this is an aberration. They do expect their brothers and sisters to keep their lifestyle agreements with one another. Note that they told him that they wouldn’t have made a big deal out of it if he had been open about what he believed was necessary in that circumstance, but they obviously believed his choices went beyond that. The character of their faith and community can still be seen in John himself.
Does he believe he has the correct way, do you think?
@@ReflectedMiles I've been where John is... I left voluntarily. The love and forgiveness you talk about is not a reality. If you do not talk the talk and think exactly like the group you are marginalized and it causes serious emotional pain. That is NOT love, but you'd have to experience it to really understand. This is NOT a Beverly Lewis or Hallmark movie. It's real life and has NOTHING to do with what the Bible actually teaches. I feel John's pain.
@@jeffpearson6413 It actually has much to do with the disciplined Faith that the Scriptures and early witnesses to those describe, though it sometimes strays outside of those boundaries. Martin Luther invented the idea that Scriptures stood alone, separate from the Church, in 1518. I guess Christians in the previous 1,500 years were just clueless, then…. I have been around these communities for three decades, and love and forgiveness (and I would add humility in many cases) is an extraordinary characteristic among them, actually, inside and out. Compromise, however, is typically not well tolerated, nor should it be if they intend to remain who they are into the future as they have for centuries past.
The news networks were trying to cover the events and their community’s response continuously for the week or so after the Amish school shooting in Nickel Mines, PA. The love and forgiveness shown towards the family of the perpetrator was the subject of books and articles for a long time after that. Some people were very upset by it, actually. Since that time, the commitment to that family has continued, and I see that sort of attitude and action from them all the time in smaller, less public ways. The fact that they are so different, and so separate, though, ticks a lot of people off, including those disciplined from within (or voluntarily leaving to avoid it).
The idea that they stand against the freedoms of the individual is a serious mischaracterization. They believe strongly in voluntarism, being one of only two churches that James Madison identified as supporting the Founders’ efforts to craft a separation of church and state, and 100 years earlier had persuaded the Quakers in Germantown to make the first petition against slavery in the colonial US. If other churches have those kinds of outcomes, I am unfamiliar with them. If you disagreed with the fundamentals of their faith, then that is up to you, but it’s important for them to preserve those even if it seems unloving of them to do so. They are certainly far from perfect, but their track record in outcomes over long periods of time is also hard to dismiss.
I work with these people as a missions pastor. They are missing the essential part of the gospel= Saved by grace through faith alone and not by works. Ephesians 2:8. They have a works( men's rules, not bible) based religion. Therefore a tainted religion. True religion and peace is found in Jesus Christ Alone. We can't let tainted and man based religion keep us from being reconciled with God our creator through His Son Jesus.Haleluja!
I have relatives who were and are Mennonites whom resided in Berne Indiana. For the most part, they lived just like us. During the Vietnam war, my uncle was in the Army, but he could not be a combatant.
There are Mennonite contractors there too. We always called them the electric Amish since they drove equipment. Didn’t have internet, but they had fax.
What the people who booted John out have missed is the spirit of the law. They instead have chosen the letter of the law, which is a stain against them as souls. They missed the boat.
Yes I agree. Please remember the fourth commandment KJV
Lord, bless this man
Why would he do it now?
Happy day! I hope he gets saved.
This is NOT how most Mennonites, Amish and other Anabaptists groups believe. The true believer seeks to honor God by doing what the Bible says and not in shallow man made rules.
Very Interesting, yes I grow up in the same Community, this Man was one of the strictest one in that community , but he has change so much , he is my Cousin , it is very hard to get out of it when a Person is train that way all his growing up Years, but Religion is like the world , chosen by the majority, and rule with Authority. we never learn , or experience how wonderful God's Love is as long as we are in fear of Mans made rules. I remember when I left , I felt relived an yet I felt much more direct connected to God . God has only one Family , chosen and accepted by his Grace , Religious Names are they key to divide People . they are Man made , but taken as God's word , that's why Grace is the Key for all of us .Roman chapter 4 and 5 .
There's a guy in this thread that is just so certain these people are the most loving and forgiving, but when you are on the inside and get set free you know the truth that an outsider will never comprehend. So glad you are set free. My wife and I came from the outside and the Mennonites nearly destroyed my mind. We left, but not without serious effects to our life and family. We do understand Biblical Grace now better than ever before!
Rigid fanaticism serves no one or any purpose, except a rule itself. This lovely man merely pursued a wiser reality.
Wow, what a beautiful testimony this man has!
The Amish and Mennonites can be very strict.
We do commercial work and have witnessed the Amish cursing when they get angry.
So restrictions only apply to those that are not considered close Knit.
😀😀 interesting
Cursing?!?!
@@seabass3104 foul language
@@seabass3104 Smoking and Drinking too. I know it's hard to believe, but soooo true.
Mennonite is a way of life... every way of life has it's pros and cons. Would not trade my Mennonite neighbors for any other.
But Papa ix you didn't join their church did you... Trust me. If you had to follow their culture and practices you would not think so highly of them. As individuals Mennonites can be very nice and friendly, but the truth is you are LOST and Going to Hell in their eyes, but they won't tell you how to get saved.
Amish, Mennonites etc. Are just people and we all know people can be wretched! They are no better or worse . Just people.
One thing I don’t get. How could John, never having touched a machine in his life, get into a bull dozer and instantly know how to turn it on and use the controls? It doesn’t make sense.
He worked with machines in his teenage years before he helped found the community. So he had worked with machines decades before
It makes perfect sense. He's smart and mechanically inclined. He's seen these things operated most of his life unlike MOST modern people today that can only play with electronic technology.
Since when do we need the approval of others to follow God?
I was banned from the Apostolic Pentecostal church I had attended for 20 years, all because of people telling tales and because I didn't worship the "right" way during service, not allowed to associate with members, especially my best friend because I might influence them to leave that church and go elsewhere. I am still Apostolic, I just belong to a different church under a different pastor now; have come to a truce with the lol leadership of the other one and the pastors wife has hinted that they would like for me to come back. Not happening, too much water under that bridge.
I'm Apostolic,that's heartbreaking
How do you not worship "right"?
I lived in Belize for 5 yrs. I have many exmonnonite friends. I also have many Mayan friends.
Don’t judge.
One of the deeper problems with Mennonites is that the authority is in the hands of the bishops and they do to their people as the Catholic church does to its people. Not allow to read the bible or read it in another language but not allowed to understand it because that is what the bishops are for but the way of life is more important than what the bible teaches for them. If you listen long enough you will hear that their way of live takes precedence over bible teaching. It is a commune of cult like behavior.
Remember! No good deed goes unpunished?
Many religions have beliefs that hinder the grow of their devotees in many ways. I worked as a volunteer in our local fire and rescue for 16 years. One afternoon we received a call for help by a man’s wife. I was the first on scene and found her husband was lying in a warm tub, fully clothed and ashen in color. Blood was on the ceiling the walls the floor. He attempted suicide by cutting himself multiple times at his arteries, stabbing his chest times and slitting his own throat. He was still alive when I arrived and started working on him. His religion would not allow for a blood transfusion. His wife gave permission for the procedure. Their house was up for sale shortly after that. I hope he didn’t divorce her for saving his life.
I was excommunicated from the Mennonite Church so I can relate.
My great grandpa was excommunicated from the mennonite church and oddly, this man resembles him a lot. My ancestor went off and started his own branch of mennonite church. None of his descendents are plain.
Did oyou have an opportunity to meet your great grandpa?
@@G-Frog no. His name was Daniel Brenneman though. Have you heard of him?
@@HezKiefer1976 I have not, though I know someone with a very similar name
I spent some time in that area several years ago, I got within two miles of the Guatemalan border in the mountains. The Amish/ Mennonite’s would build sheds, load them onto wagons and pull them with a team of horses to the delivery spot. There was not a tremendous amount of traffic on the hummingbird hi way so it wasn’t terribly hard to get around them. It was interesting to say the least and the howlers were loud!
Obviously what happened to him is part of his life lesson. It's not necessarly a bad thing because it has made him think outside of the box he has been in. I have to wonder why the people of the mennonite community would think it is worse to move the machine, rather than leave it there to potentially fall over and kill someone.
My family was excommunicated when I was 5. Many years later I went back as an educated person and tried to educate them but there was no need to confuse them with facts as their minds were made up. If John had not done that and some one had been killed, they would say it was God`s will.
I live amongst Mennonite people and they would most likely say that if it fell on someone and killed them then that was the will of god... when children die in farm accidents they don't spend time trying to do things safer next time, or regretting what led to it, they simply mourn that God has chosen to take the child away. It's odd to others but seems like part of their belief system (predestination)
@@abigail9791 interesting approach to life.
@@abigail9791 I've lived in "The church" and nearly lost my mind. The lack of emotional support or empathy is the worst.
Pharisees.
Great story thanks for sharing!
its called legalism and they carry it to the extreme
Reading the New Testament prayerfully will help him to understand the answers to his questions.
Lucky man 🙏🏼he was liberated from their control,manipulation and false profits 👍👍🙏🏼
Anyone who puts their superstition ahead of children's lives is someone you don't need in your life.
I think it's more about pride and control
Almost for sure he was member of the Noah Hoover Mennonites (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Hoover_Mennonite) and the real reason he was banned was not the fact what technology he used but his refusal to stop it, when asked to do so. When a person joins such a community through adult baptism this person makes a commitment to obey the rules. Therefore breaking the rules and not to repent when asked to do so results in the ban.
By the way, I studied traditional Anabaptist communities for decades, reading all the literature and living with several such communities for a longer time.
100th like, im a new subscriber too, awesome content
Thanks Shaun, I don't post with regularity, but I appreciate the support!
Seems like this man should be a Mennonite preacher. They could benefit from his wisdom.
Members of a church should not have to live in fear of being punished or banned. This is not what God's love is about. Love and forgiveness are what make us human. This man is a gem. His former church is not and will answer to God on why they ban His children.
You’ve never read the Bible; have you?
@@lanceroark6386 I read the part that said God is love.
@@sydneyevans2637 and because god loves his people, he instructed them to kick the bad ones out of the city, so they don’t mislead the rest of the people.
@@lanceroark6386 BUT what he did was not against God's moral law, nor is it a sin. The Amish and Mennonites who have no forgiveness over a non Biblical concept that has nothing to do with what the Bible says, they are doing wrong
@@lanceroark6386 Driving and moving a bulldozer to save persons from harm is not being bad .... and you used little god .... that's not our one true God ... have you read the Bible ...
God in his wisdom gave us this amazing gift of volition, (free will) what we do with it can be quite different from our neighbor but, every day we choose. Not with our head but with our heart.
Wow this is such an amazing story. Unbelievable, but true.
Doing something for safety's sake shouldn't be punished. People sure like their power over others, no matter the group it surely seems.
yes it's all about power
"Man has dominated man to their injury" - a quote from the Bible. An opinion on this scripture - that is putting it lightly, wouldn't you agree?
I GOT TO RESPECT THIS MAN 40 YRS THATS DEDICATION...KUDOS TO YOU..
He's better out of it, forget myth and legend, join the real world.
Thanks for sharing your story
This is really sad. Jesus said, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:11,12)." Since when is law and rules, more important than love?
The Bible says - Don't Judge. Now this doesn't mean don't have an opinion. We all have opinions. It means don't be condemning others. Let God do his own job. Each of us has our hands full just keeping ourself in line and we generally don't do a good job of it. But wouldn't you agree that hypocrisy is everywhere. In some ways I see it in myself and I don't like it. It reminds me of a funny saying( well, funny in a way if it weren't so true) It goes like this: I'm humble and I'm proud of it.😁😭
It's hard to feel the love coming out of these really strict religious communities. People want to make excuses for them, but honestly, when they make such a big deal out of authority and obedience, they destroy the value of their teachings. Most Christians have nothing to do with Jesus at all, and never have throughout the history of the church.
They did him a favour
I bought a shed from Mennonites and the young man who dropped it of unloaded it with a remote control operated machine drove it in the yard...he was not hired help but part of the family
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. You are free now.
see, this is why i dont want to start youtube. you think you're going to make a cute lil space away from the eyes of your peers, but here i am looking into the obscure Mennonite communities of south America's Belize and Peru, and i find a person i went to school with! lmfao.
really cool what you're doing though bro, b safe!
That was the the Sarcastic Amish man picture you showed. Funny video on TH-cam. Hope John finds what he’s looking for.
I thing the music is o.k., but distracting during the time the interview is going on, almost too loud. Very hard to hear the voice. Appreciate peoples discussion of "the letter of the law".
like bart simpson's bully always said....
"haha"
“With or without religion, bad people will do bad things, good people will do good things. But to get good people to do bad things, you’re going to need religion.” Steven Weinberg
Sounds like a foolish proposal.
I work with these people as a missions pastor. They are missing the essential part of the gospel= Saved by grace through faith alone and not by works. Ephesians 2:8. They have a works( men's rules, not bible) based religion. Therefore a tainted religion. True religion and peace is found in Jesus Christ Alone. We can't let tainted and man based religion keep us from being reconciled with God our creator through His Son Jesus.Hallelujah!
Yes they will answer for this!! This is wrong on so many levels. They must no believe inJesus becuase if they did they would know that not to judge people by what they eat or drink or what they touch .
That's cultism and the ministers hold the power over people's lives.
The light shined upon him and he did what was right, its thier lose and im sure they will be judged for what they smdid to him for saving the kives of the workers, soo its possible he was chosen to act as god would have wanted but i dont think being punished was right, but if took him out of such a situation then lets say gods hand and thinking led him, thanks for this video, blessing upon him.
Reminds me of the Star Trek episode where the Klingon Council turned their backs on Worf as if he didn't exist. A disfellowshipping? Excommunicating? Whatever works, but at least it isn't a stoning which was a favourite way of getting rid of an unruly, undisciplined and non-compliant individual in our history. It was always the screaming eager ones who threw the first stone.
The Seventh Day Adventist welcomes you.
Yes, we only know what we know. When in hard times or fearful times, we tend to return to what we were raised with., asking for protection or help. I've ended up with a bit of several denominations at this age. And have come to my own beliefs basically. This is what most seem to do eventually. But I'll always believe in God, there just may be a few differences in how i think He deals with us.
I have cousins in some of those communities, I just hear a few things mom tells me.
So the LDS and FLDS also shun…. Amazing what they miss by closing people out
Fundamentally, Mennonite philosophy states that a group should be self contained and not dependent on the outside world for anything, not even outside labor and machinery. To be dependent on the outside world for anything is wrongful. The outside world can disappear and the community would go on without any difficulty at all. Practicality can play a role, whether ye like it or not. Local laws can also play a role. Can ye take a buggy on a speedy, busy highway?
From what I saw in the local community they were not dependent on the outside world at all, but occasionally (to my knowledge) would hire outsiders to get some work done faster. Also for economic trade. The first time I was in the community was with a fruit seller who drove in to pick up produce from the Mennonites to take to market. On the highways there, there was occasionally a horse and buggy driving on the side.
@@G-Frog Belize favors Mennonite settlers. (The Kleine Gemeinde have treaty with the government.) In time perhaps Belize will be majority old way Mennonite. Maybe?
@@myeflatley1150 Maybe! You seem to be a lot more knowledgeable than I am! I enjoyed my time interacting with all Mennonites
@@G-Frog I am extremely knowledgeable about Mennonite and Quaker beliefs. However, it has been 35 years since I lived in Belize. Back then, Spanish Lookout was a hardware store, a meeting house, a one room school, and the most beautiful pastures I have ever seen. I remember the little red birds that flew from fence post to fence post along with me as I walked down the gravel road. Things have changed very greatly.
Originally both groups were free and extremely honest. However, corruption is very powerful and now dominates. If ye visit a meeting and it consists of Bible teaching, the community has become corrupt. Originally meetings were meetings and not a place for praising the Roman Bible.
What community did you visit? I worry your video is one more worldly video leading people away from the free and plain life.
@@myeflatley1150 I was in Spanish lookout and also Springfield briefly. Because I was doing a lot of hitchhiking around the country I probably passed by and through many Mennonite communities without knowing it. There were times I was picked up by Mennonites, or rode with them in the bed or cab of a truck as others drove
SOME CHURCHES BELIEVE THEY ARE ANOTHER ELIGIBLE AUTHORITY OF ONES LIFE , AND A TAX COLLECTION AGENCY FOR THEIR OWN TREASURY AND USE!!
SEPARATION OF STATE AND GOVERNMENT, ALWAYS!!
What a wise man.
So the traditional Western Liberal Toltalitarian story line of discrimination concerning some traditional norm.
very good !!
He can simply join a less strict group if he doesn't want to live according to their rules. There are many reasonable Mennonite groups who are generally traditional, but don't reject technology. He's probably an Old Colony Mennonite. They are so backward and uneducated that they make the Amish seem modern. The Amish have sophisticated machines pulled by teams of horses that could have done the job, if they were there. However, the Old Colony people tend to be ignorant and backwards. They don't have a reason for how they live except tradition. It's very sad he came from that background.
He saved lives!
Reminds me of when Jesus broke the sabbath (a number of times,) he healed a man on the sabbath and the Pharisees accused him of desecrating Moses Law.
He said, "You hypocrites! How many of you if he has an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, would pull it out on the Sabbath Day?! How much *better* a man is than an ass or ox!"
I don't believe the unsafe working condition story for a second,🤨, he just wanted to show all his ignorant Amish buddies how he could drive that piece of English machinery,😆, if he would tell the truth, I'll bet that wasn't his first time driving it,😉, I'd be more worried about the sin of lying way more than driving.
Do you think this particular Mennonite community is just extremely harsh?
What this man did was to save his fellow human beings from possible danger, but he’s thrown out of his community for it? I know they can be wonderful neighbors when compared with everything going on in the world, but this just seemed so harsh to remove a man from his family and at least 40 grandchildren for doing what was right. Have they never heard of John 3:16? Or, are they just so obtuse they can’t see the correlation? This man gave up everything he loved to help a fellow human being. Very sad.
Paul explains in Galatians that we are set free from the law and religiosity. We are free in Christ. The Church, the laws you keep will do nothing for you when we meet Christ. He just want a personal relationship with you. Galatians.
Religion devides.
Jesus asked us to live the spirit of the law, not just the letter, but He prized obedience as well. Seems some felt this was a lack of faith on John's part that he doubted God's Providence, while some might find the community legalistic and overly concerned with the letter of the law. Lots to meditate on here and review in light of the Bible and Christ's teaching.
Maybe now John will give his life to Jesus Christ our Only Lord and Savior !....1Ti 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, ..
. Heb 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.
How is that walking in love by kicking a fellow Christian out of the community? He was trying to help save a life. They cannot see the forest for the trees 🤔
Maybe from the people, yet NEVER from God. Maybe He removed you from one place, to utilize you in another. What insight you must have!!
Sounds good. The world can leave me alone with God any time. He's the only one I trust.
Beautiful prayer in 1 John Ch. 5
Believe the gospel of our lord Jesus christ, death, burial and resurrection, and repent. You don't need them. You need Jesus. Blessings to all. In Jesus name, amen.
AWESOME
Do Hutterite also shun?
I love that he looked into Muslim way and learnt that they have a Quran their book …
I wonder if all the shunned will unite and reconnect over time as cousins and long distant relatives … connect out of the community that shunned them.
It's probably pointless to even mention this because few if any Mennonites would read it, but the obvious question is how would ANY Christian, regardless of his denomination, expect Jesus to react in a situation like this. It sounds so much like His dealings with the religious Jews. "Was it right to do such-and-such on the sabbath?" etc. What was the right thing to do, even if it's not the religiously-correct thing to do? How could anybody who calls himself a Christian possibly be offended by somebody doing something to avert danger to other human beings? What's more important, the rules or the people? Jesus spent His entire life, from the moment He was conceived in the womb, breaking rules!
No He most certainly did not. Jesus said that he came to FULFILL THE LAW, not to do away with it.
I now this man John and he has told you only one side of the story, if you would listen to the other side (the church) it's completely different.
I would listen. Tell the church to get in contact with me.
Some people say "Our G-d is the riight one " and if you don't agree then you become "them". and different and wrong. Sad