regarding fantasy studded leather, I would say that its fabrication was a result of fantasy authors' misinterpretation of brigandines. My guess would be they looked at brigandines from the outside and saw this leather jacket with studs, and thought "Ah, leather armor with studs, probably the studs gave some sort of deflecting quality to the leather....... because of reasons", but they never looked on the inside of the jacket to realize the studs were actually meant to hold the inner steel plates of the brigandine in place
Fantasy writers were also basing their descriptions on what they researched since they couldn't always get to museums but could buy or borrow books. Scholarly researchers made their share of errors, also. Not all medieval illustrators knew how to depict armor, and some just weren't very good artists. Even if the drawings are good, inks and pigments fade or transfer, and pages get dirty or damaged. Stylistic conventions for depicting armor have led to misinterpretation and researchers inventing types of mail and scale armors based on artists' shortcuts. A Man-at-Arms series book illustration shows Saxon warriors wearing dagged-edge leather tunics and oddly-crested leather helmets thanks to period efforts to depict mail byrnies and floppy woolen headgear. Sculpture also runs into the issues of knowledge, skill, and age. Many ancient statues and reliefs were painted, so fiddly details were left to whoever held the paintbrush rather than painstakingly carved or molded. Time leads to erosion, decomposition, and deterioration. (I sometimes play 'Interpret the depiction' as a way to pass time or spur my imagination. It's rather fun.) I've seen drawings of gambesons in which the faint lines of the quilting had faded quite a bit. If the artist depicted diamond quilting, the crossing points remained dark. Easy to see as a crude or hurried depiction of studded leather. And if some jacks and gambesons were drawn as if they were riveted rather than sewn (or if some really were riveted or knotted), who wouldn't logically conclude that rivetted armor was a thing? And there's always 'Because it looks cool.' Besides, who says leather armor pieces weren't decorated with rivets or studs?
i know that if a leather peice had overlapping parts then there would be rivets holding the peices together, maybe this is the origin of studs on leather
+Misaka Mikoto Science Fiction "plastic" armor, like the Imperial Stormtroopers, is usually said to be made of "plastisteel" which was an extremely tough plastic-like material which gave protection similiar to metal. Unless Ewoks are hitting you with a stick, *sigh*.
While providing very little protection vs forward thrusts of spears or swords, thick and hardened leather do provide protection against glancing blows and slashing attacks. Leather is nature's invented 'armor'. Some leather armors were quite effective. Please do more research on the Mongolian leather armor which were hardened with horse urine over a long process. Underneath the hardened leather armor, the Mongols covered their torsos with tightly bound silk cloth which formed a form of a multi-layered kevlar effect and prevented arrow heads from making puncturing wounds to the body if they penetrated the hardened leather armor shells.
Yeah, I think people dramatically underestimate how well ANY kind of material will protect against glancing strikes/slashes. Just having any sort of material that can move around and dissipate some of the force before it contacts your skin will reduce the severity of a cut (obviously to varying degrees depending on the material and nature of the cut). Granted, if someone lands a cut with a sharp sword that connects cleanly, it's almost certainly going to cut through all but the thickest cloth/leather, but even a layer of cotton clothing could mean the difference between a nicked artery and a flesh wound from a grazing cut. P.S. I'm not implying anything about the historicity of leather armour usage, just the physics of cutting through materials.
The silk undershirts of the mongols wasn't to prevent punctures from anything that made it through the leather, it was to trap the arrowheads and make it much easier to remove it, because it wouldn't be caught in the flesh but in the silk.
The silk also served to wrap an arrowhead as it penetrated thus dissipating the energy. It did not prevent penetration but rather prevented deep penetration.
I feel like "studded leather" armor came out of a misunderstanding of rivets that could have been used to secure a layer of leather to a backing such as a plate or some mail.
there is some indication of it being historical partially, i have seen a historical vambrace where strips of steel were alternated with just leather and thick rivets
I always believed "studded leather" was due to some grad student looking at a painting that showed a man wearing brigandine and thinking Oh that must be dyed leather armor.
The main thing about "Leather Armor" is that the armor itself was a material that would have been as part of a more composite construction. An example could be Coat of Plates, where leather would be the base material for a vest style breastplate with components of iron or steel plates rivited to the leather.
The ancient Chinese indeed used leather armors. It was made from multiple layers of stiff or hardened rhino rawhide, and then lacquered several times to make it even more resistant. The earliest example we have was found in the tomb of Marquis Zeng dating back to the year 425 BCE.
+mysticonthehill These are mostly used by Southern troops, however , pretty much because you might ended up cooking yourself wearing metal armor in that region.
@@biocaster777 Arabs, mughals, turks, malays in plated mail be like: HAH WEAK!
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This Video is so old, Metatron has about the same level of sophistication as I have in mine now :) Makes me hopefull for the future and goes to show his progress.
Leather was an essential part of armor, whether it be straps and fittings for your plates or chain, or for padding to make your helmet fit better or be more compfortable. But lets remember people, leather was never the "main ingredient" so to speak, of armor.
If you couldn't afford metal armor, then it would be better than nothing. Metal was expensive and not everyone could afford it. People such as spearman who couldn't really afford nicer armor.
@@LordVader1094 would people just use cloth or a mix of cloth and leather? And would it be cheaper, because there would be a lot of work in weaving all of that linnen. Idk though. Leather itself isn't good, but maybe with padding it could help
@@kyle18934 it would certainly be cheaper with no leather. Thick leather comes from strong, mature animals, which were highly prized as beasts of burden.
That quick dismissal of studded leather kept me wondering... Of course the studs themselves are useless, but what if the studs are there to bind two or more layers of leather, just as the Aketon is made of layers of cloth bound together? They couldn't just sew them, it is hard to pierce leather with a nail and the leather edges would eventually cut the threads with the movement of the armour so the would have to rivet them. I've seen explanaitons that images of studded leather are misinterpretations of brigandine, but what if they are misinterpretations of riveted leather?
I used to watch Skallagrim a lot, then I got addicted to Lindybeige's videos (I still watch their videos sometimes, but less than I used to), and now it is Metatron's turn, it seems. It's 2:50 am over here and I'm watching videos about armour and weapons. Great.
Metatron Thank you for making it :) The thing I like about your videos (and this goes for Skallagrim and Lindybeige as well) is that it's not just an interesting history lesson, you also seem to be a really nice person and the way you talk about things is fun.
There's no doubt leather armour, if done right, can be very effective. Full thickness cowhide is >10mm thick. Use it raw and dried or tanned and hardened, will provide protection either way. My raw hide mallet is tough as any hard plastic. The Viking round shield is a prime example of raw hide used for protection. There seems to be a misconception that it was a wooden shield, but the flimsy wooden disk was only there to give it shape and act as a filler in-between the two layers of hide.
A friend and I tested a breast plate sized piece of bison rawhide against several knives, a spear and a tomahawk and the results were surprising. It was incredibly tough, and very difficult to penetrate more than superficially.
Armor is to protect from cuts and punctures. Anything that can do that, to any degree, can be considered armor. Whether it be a quilted jack or full suit of plate. Some protection is better than no protection. What type of armor was used depends on the time and place and the resources available. Where metals are scarce or expensive then wood/bamboo, horn/shell, leather and even paper was used.
The Greek spolas (tube and yolk armor) is now thought to be either thick leather or quilted linen, not glued. Late Hallstatt and Early La Téne cultures used it as well, maybe even later.
I think you are right about parts of the armor being leather. From the little I know about in the Europe and American areas. The Marines wore leather bands on their necks in the 1700 and 1800s. This helped preventing cuts to the necks. Also the reason he U.S. Marines are called Leather Necks. I know Japan used leather, iron, and silk together in their armor.
Hi Metatron... as a quick update to the question of leather armour. A couple of weeks ago I visited the Turaidas Pils (castle) in Sigulda, Latvia. On display there is a really interesting pauldron of hardened leather which, if I recall correctly, dated to the 15th century. The piece, found discarded within a wall cavity during relatively recent structural repair work, certainly doesn't appear to have been some quickly bashed together piece of rubbish from the period, but rather, a very carefully and professionally molded, and decorated item. I did photograph it, but as is often the case, the mix of display lighting and glass surrounding the piece made it all but impossible to get a good shot of. Anyway, it's in the castle museum at Sigulda. P.s... very much enjoy your videos, kindly keep it up. Cheers !
In my country (Romania) there was a widely used piece of leather "armor" that survived to the present as a clothing accessory in some rural areas. It's called "chimir" and looks like a very wide waste belt. The modern decorative version is just around 10cm wide and made of soft leather, with small utility pockets and decorations, but the ancient one was over 20cm wide (covering most of the abdomen) and made of thick tanned or boiled leather. It was used by peasants when they had to support the army at war, because of the small population that was fairly common in medieval times and in most cases they weren't equipped with any armor or weapons (they used axes or pitchforks).
This video made me retcon all the light armor in my rpg into Gambesons, light plated Aketons, and, because its still fantasy, Silk Woven armor with Chitin Plating for extra protection i just call Bringadine. Yes, i know historical bringadine was not chitin plated or silk, but its easier on my players to say "I wanna purchase a Suit of Bringadine" rather than "Chitin-Plated SilkWeave"
The Vegan Swordsman Funny you mention "Bone" because for The light armor "Plated Aketon" The plates are Chitin. And a small rebalance since the last comment moved the "Bringandine" (Which is silk and chitin plating) into the medium armor category, along with the Riveted Maille Hauberk. My RPG now has only 6 armor sets, Gambeson, Plated Aketon, Bringandine, Maille, Field Plate, Plate and Maille. and while i could add more, The defensive values would have been either identical or too similar to what i already have, and i don't WANT my players to hunt for the 1 point difference.
Twisted Logic My bringandine is very much inspired by chitin armor from Elder scrolls. Chitin was the only thing i could think to make lower weight armour with "Plated" traits. its still "weaker" than Riveted Ringmaille But its balanced out by being 80% cheaper than the Hauberk suit.
Holy smokes! Comparing your video from 2 days ago to this one (which I happened to come across from another web search....) You've really physically changed! Your work is really showing; you've lost some kinds of mass, and gained others... well done!
I was imagining armors for people before the iron/bronze age... The result was... Scale armors made from shells. A gambeson made with leather and some bits of wood. Ribs or another bones from animals tied together with leather... But i guess people from stone age used shields instead.
RyuFireheart I would say that armor really wasn't a big deal until metallurgy. A hide shield and some heavy clothing (if you weren't fighting in a hot environment) would have gotten the job done. Most "stone-age" societies centuries have been observed to wear little armor or clothing at all. The Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas wore pelts or cloth armor and wooden shields. The "Linothorax" and boar tusk helmets and cuirasses aren't seen until the Bronze Age; Egyptians wore little armor at all (usually just cloth and leather) throughout the existence of their civilization. I would argue that before copper and bronze smelting people didn't fight on as great a scale or with as much protection other than what they normally wore for everyday tasks.
In Vietnam, there is evidence in documents of laws since the 16th century: each province had to supply 100 buffalo hides a year to make armour for the army, or if a soldier misses 3 times in shooting test, he had to pay 2 buffalo hides. Thought we don't know how they do it or what it look like but we know they did use buffalo hide to make armour for common soldiers.
I read somewhere that Eastern soilders would sometimes wear silk under their leather armour, so that an arrow that would pierce the leather wouldn't pierce the silk. The silk would go inside the flesh, wrapped around the arrowhead, so that the arrow could be extracted without catching on any of the soilder's flesh.
Since you asked us to saw what we think, I will. I personally think it looks hideous however genuinely think you should buy whatever you like. I greatly respect that you acknowledged your specific leather armor as fantasy, whereas some would passionately defend it's place in history. I liked your quick and to the point analysis of leather armor. Obviously you didn't cover everything but I'm glad you didn't because I probably wouldn't have time to watch it all in one sitting. You paved the way for more content on the matter which I appreciate. Love your channel, can't wait to see what you do for 200k subs when you get there but congratulations in advance.
What if leather armor was used like a mail, or plate armor? I mean, if they put it over a gambeson, they get the protection of both armor, and if the segments were made properly then it wouldn't restrict the wearer's movement. I think it would be lighter than maille(if you don't want the leather to be overly thick, which is not a good idea if you want to move freely), and maybe cheaper than it(iron was kind of rare at those times so, you know).
Well, gambesons, depending on their thickness, are very good at keeping you warm in itselves, so if you are not speaking about siberian like cold, which would actually hurt the leather, then no, it would be unnecessary in that manner.
A somewhat thick cloth armor consisting of overlapping linen layers. The number of layers depends on the use of gambeson, as it's used for protection, or using it as padding for said maile or plate armour, as the former has more layers, alas thicker and providing more protection, while the other has less defensive capabilities, while being more flexible, providing mobility for the wearer.
The Japanese had scale armor made out of rawhide called Hon Kozane. It was typically heavily lacquered, looking a bit like shiny plastic. Japanese scale is also laced in such a way to form rigid lames, a breastplate of Hon Kozane is just as rigid as one made of steel, it is not flexible. In later periods, scale was considered high class and was more expensive than solid plate, this was to the point that there are even armors made of solid steel plates that have notches cut in them to imitate the look of scale.
I think that simple leather armor is not a less expensive option than metal plate armor, but rather a more primitive one. I've heard historians speculating that legendary warriors, like the Assyrian Goliath or a war-time Pharoah from Egypt, likly wore leather armor simply because the technology to refine and forge metal into practical armor hadn't been developed yet. After all, most of these civilizations had just developed bronze, let alone iron or steel.
Samurai from before the introduction of the gun would be known for their leather armour. A special super tough laquer would be applied on the leather. The Swiss peasant army was also known for their leather armour. Tight fitting and cut at the joints to make movement possible. This would later become a fashion in the renaissance.
As far as I can tell, and according to some experiments, leather armor does offer protection but it's less effective than plate or lined armor. As a matter of fact it was used by civilizations who did not have access to vast amount of metal and/or fabric, like the mongolians or the japanese for example. And for the lorica segmentata, actually there is archaeological evidence that it was made from metal :) westernclassicalstudies.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/armour-from-corbridge-2.jpg
Good evening Metatron! This is my all time favorite channel. Thanks for everything. Anyways, I was wondering if Greek Hoplites ever wore leather armour? I have seen depictions of this, although I know it wasn't a historically accurate depiction.
I had a discussion on this topic with a Danish reenactor, and he mentioned one interesting topic about gambesons "used" by sailing cultures, such as the vikings. He said that they probably didn't use gambesons that much (At sea at least) because when a gambeson gets wet (For instance you fall from a drakkar into the sea) it soaks so much water, that it becomes thrice as heavy, increasing your chances to drown dramatically. He mentioned also, that most of them weren't armored at all (Some clothes to protect against the elements at least), except maybe a looted helmet. The rich guys, on the other hand would have maybe lamellar (Leather or steel) or maille armor, with leather jackets unerneath for padding (For the same reasons, that at sea you want to be as light as possible, otherwise you have no chance of survival if you fall overboard) On the continent, however, they might have prefered gambesons, for their protective abilities.
Gustaphus Adolphus Rex died in his Leather armor made from moose. It still on display somewhere or the other. He was incapable of carrying heavier armor due to a wound earlier. The idea for his moose made hauberk came from the vikings which used it extensively.
Considering that during the early bronze age the Egyptian army wore padded cloth armor, it would be natural to assume that as metal refining methods improved, sturdier armor would be needed, it's not that much of a stretch to see many countries would for a time use leather armor. During the battles of Marathon & Thermopylae, the Persian army still wore predominantly cloth, leather, & wicker armor because it gave a significant advantage when dealing mostly primitive tribes living in the wide-open Indo-Persian plains & steppes.
How I see it, the closest things to leather armor might be a coat of plates or brigandine. But in those cases, just as you said, the leather is only a component or a 'vessel' to which metal plates are riveted
Leather armor in ancient times; Very interesting topic!! Recently, I was reading about the ancient Egyptians. particularly some of the military items that have been reassessed as to what their original function was. One of these was a leather cloak, ie, Leather Armor! If you haven’t been apprised of it, you might find it very interesting. It was meticulously layered and stitched and probably afforded the Egyptian Pharaoh/Egyptian warrior, adequate protection from enemy archers, swordsmen, etc. Any how neat channel!!
An indirect confirmation of the existence of some kind of leather armor can be found in etymology, in words such as the italian "corazza" (english "cuirass", french "cuirasse"), which comes from the latin "coriacea", meaning "made of corium", the latin word for leather. In english is a specific type of armor, but in italian is also a generic word for "hard and resilient protection". It had to be a pretty common kind of armor material for the word to stick around this long.
Leather armor was used throughout Asia. Ox hide was preferred because of it's strength. The ancient Egyptians used crocodile hide, Hippopotamus Hide, and cow hide. The Levant, Greece, and Anatolia did as well. It stands to reason that Europeans used leather armor for millennia. The lack of organic remains does not mean that a practical means of defense was not used. As you said, boiled, or , hardened leather makes sense. Leather was used on shield faces. So, why not on a soldiers body? It seems to make sense to me.
I collect ethnographical photographs and I can say that leather armour was much more common than many people think. Unlike metal leather was a by product of eating livestock so it was not a scarce resource. I have seen Argentinian, Paraguayan, Congolese, Chinese, Indonesian, Filipino, Sudanese and Assamese examples and undoubtedly there were many other places that no photographic record survives.
My assumption, is if it was traditional than boar hide might have been an option. In more modern terms a half or three quarter split hide is insanely protective. I owned a pair of Raitchle mountaineering boots some years back that were half split boar hide. One of my less intelligent friends accidentally discharged a 22 pistol into my foot. Without a reinforced toe my boot stopped the round. I honestly didn't even feel the impact, and didn't realize it had impacted my foot until I found the round itself. I admit it was just a 22 short so not a huge amount of power, but it was nearly point blank. Whatever the view on the armor, Raitchle does make some damned fine boots.
Leather could have been used as a lining protecting the miserable affects of metal next to the skin. Metal gets really hot and really cold while a thin lining of leather would prevent the temperature transfer to the skin. It could also protect the skin from any sharp bits in the armor. The access to leather rather than cloth was probably much easier.
The problem in my mind about leather armor is that ounce cut, the structural integrity is gone (for that specific strike not necessarily following blows). essentially if you pierce it, it stops doing work against the attack. cloth on the other hand tends to bunch up, allowing more material to make contact with the weapon thus protecting you more. an underlying gambeson works to alleviate this but it seems like a lot of effort to put into something when more cloth would likely do better. It does seem to serve well vs. non weapon related blunt forces, such as falling or or to simply put, stiff padding. leather leg guards make perfect sense, similar in effect to knee pads or elbow pads. for example: if a warrior drops to a a knee in order to to slip under an opponents guard or simply to avoid being struck, he would likely avoid a disabling knee injury that cloth simply would help (as much) to avoid. so in agreement w/ the Metatron, it was much more likely leather would have been used as an augment of more conventional armor, or as lashings, harnesses, straps, etc. rather than as armor in and of itself. sorry if it seems like i put words in his mouth, was just my interpretation.
I guy I knew in the SCA had a set of full plate-like armour that he made of thick leather boiled in beeswax, and I was checking it out, it'll stop a lot of damage, a guy with a knife would have a VERY hard time trying to stab though it, you'd pretty much have to be on the ground or let him just go to town for you to get hurt. I guess what I'm saying is , it'd be fairly effective .
Greek hoplite armor could be made of leather. The consensus is that it was made of fused linen, but there's nothing about the design that precludes leather. Something for fantasy writers and role-players to consider.
I have a half suit of curboil leather armor that I made myself. Using instructions I found online back during the Renaissance days in the late 90s early 2000s. Obviously as I've grown a little rotund it no longer fits as it once did as it was custom-made for my body by literally molding it to me. In Essence we cut out two pieces in the shape of a tank top shirt one for the front one for the back. Made out of cow leather. We folded these two pieces up and boiled them in a pan on the stove I forget the time that we had to have it in there for after reach this point I put on a thick wool sweater, and my friend took the piece out of the pot on folded it using some mitts to keep from being burned, placed it over my chest, which I held in place with a couple of pencils to keep from burning my fingers he then wrapped my torso with ace bandage I think it took two rolls, to hold it to form I then sat back on a couch and waited for 30 minutes, needless to say it got a little warm in there. After the 30 minutes we took off the bandages and took the now semi hardened piece of leather and put it over the side of a 5 gallon bucket to finish curing and did the process all over again for the back. Afterwards once they had dried for 24 hours on those buckets, we came back made sure that the pieces stayed confirmed to my chest and back. And used a mixture of a block of paraffin wax with styrene powder, melted into a bread pan using a double boiler technique and brushes to brush wax thoroughly into the two pieces of armor. Once that was done we used rivets to attach the front and back pieces to large piece of soft thin leather in the shape of a bath towel with a hole cut through for my head and riveted the shoulders to that piece of leather. The arms with the pauldrons I purchased at a Renaissance fair and attached beside the straps for the shoulders. The legs are worn on a belt separate from the Torso armor. This armor I can tell you from experience fighting in it provides adequate protection against most blows. And a leather has enough give to distribute the blowout word lessening the point of impact a little bit and preventing any penetration weapon from coming through. Obviously I have not tried to use this against Real weaponry let alone shoot at it with a bow, as this was rather an expensive and time-consuming procedure I would rather not damage my armor. But it would seem to me after wearing that too many Mark battles better suit of leather could exist and would provide protection enough to Warrant wearing at least over the vital areas of the body.
I chopped up an old belt which was about 3-4mm thick and put some. Pieces in boiling water. It shrinks and go's rubbery and will dry to a shape. When it dried it was like a piece of plastic or resin. It eveutally snapped. If it was cut into the shape of a vest and attached to someone when the leather was drying it could make some form fitting body armour. With layers I could see how this would be somewhat good protection against edges and blunt force trauma. I think my biker jacket would provide a bit of protection against common blades that's are not sharp etc
Years ago I read that bison leather was so valued for armor that it led to the extinction of European bison, subsequently bison leather from the Americas was used for armor.
Brings back memories of Cinciti Sword & Sandal epics on the 1950’s. Probably because it was cheaper than metallic & they didn’t have fake metallic spray can paint back then.
we kown that leather is not as sturdy as iron,but the thickness can be thicker.For example ,in one dynasty,most of iron armours with the thickness of 1-2mm,while the leather armour with the thickness of 4-5mm
The leather armor which I've found to be more historical from a production standpoint, are the various types of sewn leather tunics and girdles. I have quite a bit of experiemce making period reproductions, and those are my favorite and by far, the most comfortable and wearable leather armors. These ranged from skirmisher and light infantry armor to cavalry armor. I'm speaking of Antiquity of course. Sort of a ubiquitous sort of light armor worn all over the ancient world was a sort of scaled leather tunic with a linen lining and copper or bronze scales or rings sewn onto the leather scales. The pattern of the scaling depended on the type of soldier using it. Skirmishers and light troops overlapped top to bottom to defend against missiles and light weapons, whereas something like a cavalry girdle was the opposite, to protect the vitals and guts from penetrating injuries from below. These could range from quite light for skirmishers, to quite heavy such as some of the kit worn by Persian armored horsearchers, since scale was more resistant than chainmail to the composite bows used in the East. These armors could be made very crudely and cheaply, but could also be extremely well made and offer very strong protection depending on the scaling.
You did mention plates attached to leather. A great example of this would have something like the Visby coat of plates. I would love to hear more about them.
Metatron love ur videos keep doing them i find them quite nice and educative and some are funny like the katana vs longswords debunking but yes keep it up
I assume the video is about body armour and the medieval period, but leather is known to have been used in shields in the Bronze Age. Homer's Iliad describes the shields used by several of the Greek heroes in terms of how many ox-hides thick they are.
A gentle correction on your English... "calf leather" implies it came from a very young cow. A better term, if you mean leather from a grown cow, is cowhide leather. Thank you for covering these misconceptions about leather armors. Very interesting. I've wanted for a while to make a leather cuirass with a woven pattern like the elvish armors in LotR.
We do have plenty of ancient Greek sources concerning leather armour, and it may definetely be said that such material was common for them. The amount of depictions of it is, however, declining progressively as we look at sources closer to modern time. My assumption is, though leather certainly works as a relatively cheap light protection, it was just taken off market by gambesons at some point in history. They were both cheaper and at least just as effective.
parlerai mai nello specifico dell' armatura lamellare (Lamellar Armour)? Complimenti per il canale! mi sono iscritto da poco ma ho già guardato parecchi video e li ho trovati tutti molto interessanti e informativi senza però risultare pesanti. Complimenti anche per l'inglese e il giapponese sembri quasi un madrelingua :)
Leather armor also existed in the Americas, like North America. Because all they had were animals, they made due with what they had. To make their armor strong, they used sand reinforcing, in which the put glue on the hide, rubbed it in sand and did the process again
Leather armour made from crocodile hide were used by some of the pharohs in battle in ancient Egypt. Though haven't seen much info on how effective it was in battle.
Hardened leather, plastic-like, doesn''t really compete with gambeson. It is not going to be a semi-flexible suit. It is going to compete with metal, formed into plates, helmets and so forth. So, whenever metal becomes affordable, leather armor disappears.
Almost seems to be like wearing a very fancy ganbinson over a less fancy ganbinson. I have done leather crafting as a hobby, still do when I can afford to, and would not rely on it for armor. That suit for LARP is definitely too cool. I even like the color.
I truly think (and just my thoughts) that the idea of studded leather armour may have come from an illustration seen from the wrong angle so to speak. Say a plate armour covered in a layer of leather with rivets "studs" protruding through (similar to what can be seen in some museums,). Thus it appears ar though it is simply leather though when handled or further examined it is indeed more akin to plate or splint armour. Though if looking at an illustration from ages gone by it might seem to be studded leather but in truth not so much.
Leather was often used as a component, but as far as a full suit, not likely in the middle ages, cows are expensive, though as the owner of a pair of saddle leather arm guards, I can tell you they're solid as rock.
+Paintchipsrocks , I wonder how horse leather is compared to cow leather. A nation with a lot of horses and cows (like the Mongols) would have enough leather for their troops. American Indians had a limitless supply of bison hides, yet I don't know if they made any leather armor.
+Maxawe Some Not sure about horse leather, never used it. The issue with leather is the amount of care it takes, if it gets wet ect. Never heart of Indians using leather armor.
So I've seen this topic on Skall's, Shad's, and Matt's channels. I'm sure it's on plenty others. I am an avid leather worker and have worked with several mediums of leather. Veggie tans, seudes, buffalo, etc. I have made leather into armor and used it as structure for armor. I won't speak to the historical use aspect but to it's actual effectiveness. Here are some points to consider. (Fair warning this is the short version, which is fairly long for a TH-cam comment) 1. Slashing and cutting: Leather is dense or tight in its fiber content. This changes between types of leather and animal it came from, but is ultimately what makes leather excellent for belts, pouches and such. Because of the dense fibers it can support a lot of weight and stress. Linen in fiber density tends to be looser. Why do I say that. So imagine taking a piece of rope and it hanging loose in the middle, and then you slash at it with knife trying to cut it in half. Probably not going to cut it on the first strike, because it had give and can absorb some of the impact. Now pull the rope tight and try it again, you'll get a much better result. This is what makes leather, especially veggie tans bad at cuts or slashes, but padded jackets really effective. 2. Blunt force. Now inversely, leather over padding adds a significant level of surface dispersion and from own experience of being slapped hard with a rattan stick, will take almost all of the force from the shot. Not saying a gambeson can't absorb blunt force, but leather enhances it. Of course leather with no padding will do all of diddly squat for blunt trauma. 3. Hardened or boiled. So I have attempted the straight water boiled method of leather with varying results. It's never been anything significant in terms of protection. However drying out the leather then boiling it in 180 degree (farenheight) wax and then allowing it to dry has resulted in veggie tan leather that is as hard as a plastic cutting board. What happens when you do this is all the space between the fibers is filled with wax that then hardens, greatly reinforcing the already dense fiber bundles. I can attest that this leather will stop a sharpened swords edge or point. This method will make the leather heavier. 4. Lamellar. Alright so overlapping scales of leather (veggi-tan), will produce effective armor. This goes back to the rope analogy. The scales will be somewhat loose when laced together. This makes it hard for the weapon to bite effectively. Also considering that you effectively double the layer thickness (2x10oz scales = 20oz thickeness) means a weapon will have to contend with a lot of material to get through. 5. Rawhides. Rawhide we do know was available. It was used for shield edgings to reduce the chance of a wooden shield being split. Would rawhide make an effective armor, absolutely. It's very hard and is very effective at dispersing impacts. Would it have been affordable, probably not. Even today rawhide is expensive in comparison to other leathers you can purchase. It is however very easy to work with. Once thoroughly soaked, it is very easy to cut and shape. Then you let it dry and it becomes as hard as bone. Form a breastplate from two or three layers of it and I would imagine it could very easily stop an arrow. I've never tested, cause again it is expensive. However the idea would be similar to Greek or Chinese paper armors, that were layered and lacquered. Even modern ballistic plates are designed on this principal. The only downside to rawhide would be, if it you got rained on a lot, it would soften up again. Maybe coating it some sort of resin would help, but again I've never tested cause it's expensive. Sorry this was long, but hopefully it sheds some insight. There is definitely a lot more to it, but this is the short version.
if i remember correctly in China Lammaner Armour made of iron or leather was very popular especially during the three kingdoms period as well as thick silk garments like a gamberson.
Leather shoe soles, on traditional expensive shoes, seem fairly resistant to abuse. I have no idea what process is used to make them. It might also be interesting to look at the historical geographic distribution of iron. Areas without rocks don't have iron, so deserts, steppes and plains (where it's easier to mine cows) might change the balance.
While more modern societies tend to throw away broken items it would not surprise me if a medieval person who used a lamellar armor of leather would not have repurposed it into useful objects like hinge straps when they retired or gained enough wealth to aquire mail.
Leather was extremely accessible in the middle ages. Every larger village had a tanner and many people simply could produce tanned leather at home. In 13th century hungarian foot soldiers were described wearing padded leather doublets. Often 2 or 3 at the time. Leather armor definitely existed in many forms.
In some parts of Europe yes. In others iron was more expensive and harder to come by. (Like in Eastern Europe.) Point is there are historical description that at least parts of armies using leather armor. The people here are basically serfs who were required to do military service as skirmishers mostly.
+Timothy Heimbach There's a difference between a blacksmith, which you'd find in any village, and an armourer however. While my experience of smithing is very limited, I can definitely see a world of difference between turning out a fire poker and a breastplate, the latter requires certain skills which go beyond what a village blacksmith would be capable of. The making of armour was considered specialised enough to be a different guild from the blacksmiths in England (and still is one of the livery companies of the city of London, as is the Company of Blacksmiths).
The premium armour of warring state era in China were made of rhino skin. There are theories of Asian rhinos were hunted to extinction in China because of the demand for armour. The early laminar armour were also made out of lacured hard boiled leather. They were very common.
In my research on the weapons of my Frisian ancestors nearly all sources claim they used leather coats exclusively, likely even without a gambeson. Even the sources who describe them in the Crusades say this. Strips of plate might have been sewn into/onto this, but that's not mentioned. The pictures even look like they could be wearing buff coats. One would assume they are gambesons, were it not for the many sources saying it's leather. There is with them of course a practical reason for that: they travelled a lot by vaulting over water and by boat. The chances of ending up in the water were high, and they were known for guerilla warfare. Mail and plate armour is heavy and slows one down, and of course makes it impossible to swim.
Some North American native tribes could make shields from bison leather that could even stop bullets from early musquets, no problem with arrows and knives. Same kind of leather could be used to make armor and it would provide good protection.
About those leather coats belonging more to the renaissance than the middle ages... that's largely true of the iconic shining metal armor too, right? So it could fit into medieval fantasy just as well?
Anton V Kind of, if we really want to be technical some shining metal armours where developed in the late middleages so technically as long as it's not high middleages you could say that some suits of armour where late medieval. Also the problem with the buff coats is that they where used during a time where you already had gun powder so they are iconic of that age and in my opinion wouldn't fit in a medieval fantasy.
Gaulish soldiers are supposed to have primarily worn leather jerkins into combat I think, which sounds like a form of leather armor. Isn't it likely that when they wore their own version of the hamata chainmail that it was probably worn underneath to be used as their own padding?
Although this video was uploaded almost 3 years ago I must add something. Not only Mongolians wore lamellar armour made from leather, peoples in central and eastern Europe did that too as far as I know. Probably the armour was worn on a gambeson.
purely logic on my part, i have no real evidence to support its historical use, but seems reasonable in a pre plate environment, but my thoughts on leather armor would involve wearing it in combination with both a gambeson and maille, probably as a mid layer. in my mind this would take an impact on the maille and being reasonably rigid would distribute the impact over a wider area which would allow the gambeson underneath to absorb more impact and as such give quite good protection, and would like to know if that would be in your opinion a reasonable thing to do (whether or not it is historically accurate)
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regarding fantasy studded leather, I would say that its fabrication was a result of fantasy authors' misinterpretation of brigandines. My guess would be they looked at brigandines from the outside and saw this leather jacket with studs, and thought "Ah, leather armor with studs, probably the studs gave some sort of deflecting quality to the leather....... because of reasons", but they never looked on the inside of the jacket to realize the studs were actually meant to hold the inner steel plates of the brigandine in place
+melchaios Yeah, I remember that Lindybeige came to a similar conclusion in one of his videos. It sounds pretty probable.
Fantasy writers were also basing their descriptions on what they researched since they couldn't always get to museums but could buy or borrow books. Scholarly researchers made their share of errors, also. Not all medieval illustrators knew how to depict armor, and some just weren't very good artists. Even if the drawings are good, inks and pigments fade or transfer, and pages get dirty or damaged. Stylistic conventions for depicting armor have led to misinterpretation and researchers inventing types of mail and scale armors based on artists' shortcuts. A Man-at-Arms series book illustration shows Saxon warriors wearing dagged-edge leather tunics and oddly-crested leather helmets thanks to period efforts to depict mail byrnies and floppy woolen headgear.
Sculpture also runs into the issues of knowledge, skill, and age. Many ancient statues and reliefs were painted, so fiddly details were left to whoever held the paintbrush rather than painstakingly carved or molded. Time leads to erosion, decomposition, and deterioration.
(I sometimes play 'Interpret the depiction' as a way to pass time or spur my imagination. It's rather fun.)
I've seen drawings of gambesons in which the faint lines of the quilting had faded quite a bit. If the artist depicted diamond quilting, the crossing points remained dark. Easy to see as a crude or hurried depiction of studded leather. And if some jacks and gambesons were drawn as if they were riveted rather than sewn (or if some really were riveted or knotted), who wouldn't logically conclude that rivetted armor was a thing?
And there's always 'Because it looks cool.' Besides, who says leather armor pieces weren't decorated with rivets or studs?
i know that if a leather peice had overlapping parts then there would be rivets holding the peices together, maybe this is the origin of studs on leather
Sometimes rawhide leather would be used as armor for some native american tribes.
Mirar los Dragónes de cuera.
En lá guerra peninsular un oficial inglés encargo una cuera y era perfectamente útil.
It'll never be as good as tupperware armor.
Misaka Mikoto Tupperware armour?
Metatron Plastica. Tipo quelle delle truppe imperiali di Star Wars.
Mastro Carpentiere ah ecco xD
Misaka Mikoto Tupperware armor is weak. You need pots and pan armor instead.
+Misaka Mikoto Science Fiction "plastic" armor, like the Imperial Stormtroopers, is usually said to be made of "plastisteel" which was an extremely tough plastic-like material which gave protection similiar to metal. Unless Ewoks are hitting you with a stick, *sigh*.
While providing very little protection vs forward thrusts of spears or swords, thick and hardened leather do provide protection against glancing blows and slashing attacks. Leather is nature's invented 'armor'. Some leather armors were quite effective. Please do more research on the Mongolian leather armor which were hardened with horse urine over a long process. Underneath the hardened leather armor, the Mongols covered their torsos with tightly bound silk cloth which formed a form of a multi-layered kevlar effect and prevented arrow heads from making puncturing wounds to the body if they penetrated the hardened leather armor shells.
+Far East Survival Ofcourse silk is a lot lighter than linnen. So it is both lighter and stronger than our gambesons equivalent. The more you know.
Yeah, I think people dramatically underestimate how well ANY kind of material will protect against glancing strikes/slashes. Just having any sort of material that can move around and dissipate some of the force before it contacts your skin will reduce the severity of a cut (obviously to varying degrees depending on the material and nature of the cut).
Granted, if someone lands a cut with a sharp sword that connects cleanly, it's almost certainly going to cut through all but the thickest cloth/leather, but even a layer of cotton clothing could mean the difference between a nicked artery and a flesh wound from a grazing cut.
P.S. I'm not implying anything about the historicity of leather armour usage, just the physics of cutting through materials.
The silk undershirts of the mongols wasn't to prevent punctures from anything that made it through the leather, it was to trap the arrowheads and make it much easier to remove it, because it wouldn't be caught in the flesh but in the silk.
The silk also served to wrap an arrowhead as it penetrated thus dissipating the energy. It did not prevent penetration but rather prevented deep penetration.
Far East Survival so like how bullet proof vests work but with arrows
"Fancy the leather armor, huh? Something to be said for going light."--Whiterun Guard
Lol they also thought if you steal a flower it's worth killing you while you are killing a dragon
@@kyle18934 ROFL! Guards... Guards never change.
@@kyle18934 Wait do you mean flower as in a plant's privet part or flower as in pounded grain?
@@rachdarastrix5251 the first
@@rachdarastrix5251 Pounded grain is spelled flour.
I feel like "studded leather" armor came out of a misunderstanding of rivets that could have been used to secure a layer of leather to a backing such as a plate or some mail.
there is some indication of it being historical partially, i have seen a historical vambrace where strips of steel were alternated with just leather and thick rivets
Jazereints: mail between layers of cloth.
I always believed "studded leather" was due to some grad student looking at a painting that showed a man wearing brigandine and thinking Oh that must be dyed leather armor.
@@timburton6774 Thing is it has to be one of the DnD creators among others who put it out there.
The main thing about "Leather Armor" is that the armor itself was a material that would have been as part of a more composite construction.
An example could be Coat of Plates, where leather would be the base material for a vest style breastplate with components of iron or steel plates rivited to the leather.
The ancient Chinese indeed used leather armors. It was made from multiple layers of stiff or hardened rhino rawhide, and then lacquered several times to make it even more resistant. The earliest example we have was found in the tomb of Marquis Zeng dating back to the year 425 BCE.
Yes, leather armour was still in existence in china in the 1800s. If you google Lolo armour you will see an example of it.
+mysticonthehill
These are mostly used by Southern troops, however , pretty much because you might ended up cooking yourself wearing metal armor in that region.
@@biocaster777 Mail would breath more than leather...
@@roryross3878 And much easier to absorb the heat, being metal. Besides, padding negates the ventilation, anyway.
@@biocaster777 Arabs, mughals, turks, malays in plated mail be like: HAH WEAK!
This Video is so old, Metatron has about the same level of sophistication as I have in mine now :) Makes me hopefull for the future and goes to show his progress.
Leather was an essential part of armor, whether it be straps and fittings for your plates or chain, or for padding to make your helmet fit better or be more compfortable. But lets remember people, leather was never the "main ingredient" so to speak, of armor.
If you couldn't afford metal armor, then it would be better than nothing. Metal was expensive and not everyone could afford it. People such as spearman who couldn't really afford nicer armor.
@@kyle18934 You're forgetting that cloth armour is far cheaper and more effective with less work than leather armour. Gambesons, mate.
@@LordVader1094 would people just use cloth or a mix of cloth and leather? And would it be cheaper, because there would be a lot of work in weaving all of that linnen. Idk though. Leather itself isn't good, but maybe with padding it could help
@@LordVader1094 depends on their access to fabric or if the climate permits gambesson.
@@kyle18934 it would certainly be cheaper with no leather. Thick leather comes from strong, mature animals, which were highly prized as beasts of burden.
That quick dismissal of studded leather kept me wondering... Of course the studs themselves are useless, but what if the studs are there to bind two or more layers of leather, just as the Aketon is made of layers of cloth bound together? They couldn't just sew them, it is hard to pierce leather with a nail and the leather edges would eventually cut the threads with the movement of the armour so the would have to rivet them. I've seen explanaitons that images of studded leather are misinterpretations of brigandine, but what if they are misinterpretations of riveted leather?
that sasuke shirt ... man I love you
Why the hell do you have 7K subs???? With the material you work with, you deserve a million '-'
+Marcos Vinicius ahahah thankyou very much, let's hope for the future ^___^
Half way there now xP
I used to watch Skallagrim a lot, then I got addicted to Lindybeige's videos (I still watch their videos sometimes, but less than I used to), and now it is Metatron's turn, it seems. It's 2:50 am over here and I'm watching videos about armour and weapons. Great.
Well I'm glad you like my content! :3 thank you for watching pal
Metatron Thank you for making it :)
The thing I like about your videos (and this goes for Skallagrim and Lindybeige as well) is that it's not just an interesting history lesson, you also seem to be a really nice person and the way you talk about things is fun.
TheShadowOfMadness Good to hear :) :)
I found the Metatron's last week and have been hooked since then! Keep up the good work man!
There's no doubt leather armour, if done right, can be very effective.
Full thickness cowhide is >10mm thick. Use it raw and dried or tanned and hardened, will provide protection either way. My raw hide mallet is tough as any hard plastic.
The Viking round shield is a prime example of raw hide used for protection. There seems to be a misconception that it was a wooden shield, but the flimsy wooden disk was only there to give it shape and act as a filler in-between the two layers of hide.
"there isn't a lot of material on leather armour" LOL
+thechosenonenumber Compared to what we have on metal armour there isn't that much.
+Metatron no, the pun. "material....leather". don't worry I understand the literal meaning
thechosenonenumber aaaaaaaa ok xD
I don't get it.
Thomas Huffcutt leather is the material
A friend and I tested a breast plate sized piece of bison rawhide against several knives, a spear and a tomahawk and the results were surprising. It was incredibly tough, and very difficult to penetrate more than superficially.
Armor is to protect from cuts and punctures. Anything that can do that, to any degree, can be considered armor. Whether it be a quilted jack or full suit of plate. Some protection is better than no protection. What type of armor was used depends on the time and place and the resources available. Where metals are scarce or expensive then wood/bamboo, horn/shell, leather and even paper was used.
The Greek spolas (tube and yolk armor) is now thought to be either thick leather or quilted linen, not glued. Late Hallstatt and Early La Téne cultures used it as well, maybe even later.
I think you are right about parts of the armor being leather. From the little I know about in the Europe and American areas. The Marines wore leather bands on their necks in the 1700 and 1800s. This helped preventing cuts to the necks. Also the reason he U.S. Marines are called Leather Necks. I know Japan used leather, iron, and silk together in their armor.
Hi Metatron... as a quick update to the question of leather armour. A couple of weeks ago I visited the Turaidas Pils (castle) in Sigulda, Latvia. On display there is a really interesting pauldron of hardened leather which, if I recall correctly, dated to the 15th century. The piece, found discarded within a wall cavity during relatively recent structural repair work, certainly doesn't appear to have been some quickly bashed together piece of rubbish from the period, but rather, a very carefully and professionally molded, and decorated item. I did photograph it, but as is often the case, the mix of display lighting and glass surrounding the piece made it all but impossible to get a good shot of. Anyway, it's in the castle museum at Sigulda.
P.s... very much enjoy your videos, kindly keep it up. Cheers !
In my country (Romania) there was a widely used piece of leather "armor" that survived to the present as a clothing accessory in some rural areas. It's called "chimir" and looks like a very wide waste belt. The modern decorative version is just around 10cm wide and made of soft leather, with small utility pockets and decorations, but the ancient one was over 20cm wide (covering most of the abdomen) and made of thick tanned or boiled leather. It was used by peasants when they had to support the army at war, because of the small population that was fairly common in medieval times and in most cases they weren't equipped with any armor or weapons (they used axes or pitchforks).
This video made me retcon all the light armor in my rpg into Gambesons, light plated Aketons, and, because its still fantasy, Silk Woven armor with Chitin Plating for extra protection i just call Bringadine.
Yes, i know historical bringadine was not chitin plated or silk, but its easier on my players to say "I wanna purchase a Suit of Bringadine" rather than "Chitin-Plated SilkWeave"
Leather bracers, boots and cuirasses seem reasonably realistic though.
Does your rpg have a "medium" armor class well? For maille, lamellar, and perhaps some kind of bone armor (depending on how "fantasy" it is.)
The Vegan Swordsman Funny you mention "Bone" because for The light armor "Plated Aketon" The plates are Chitin.
And a small rebalance since the last comment moved the "Bringandine" (Which is silk and chitin plating) into the medium armor category, along with the Riveted Maille Hauberk.
My RPG now has only 6 armor sets, Gambeson, Plated Aketon, Bringandine, Maille, Field Plate, Plate and Maille. and while i could add more, The defensive values would have been either identical or too similar to what i already have, and i don't WANT my players to hunt for the 1 point difference.
Your bringadine gives me a very Dunmer (dark elves from The Elder Scrolls) feel. Would that be on purpose?
Twisted Logic My bringandine is very much inspired by chitin armor from Elder scrolls. Chitin was the only thing i could think to make lower weight armour with "Plated" traits. its still "weaker" than Riveted Ringmaille But its balanced out by being 80% cheaper than the Hauberk suit.
Wouldnt you still want to wear gambeson underneath some kind of hardened leather vest?
Holy smokes! Comparing your video from 2 days ago to this one (which I happened to come across from another web search....) You've really physically changed! Your work is really showing; you've lost some kinds of mass, and gained others... well done!
I was imagining armors for people before the iron/bronze age... The result was...
Scale armors made from shells.
A gambeson made with leather and some bits of wood.
Ribs or another bones from animals tied together with leather...
But i guess people from stone age used shields instead.
RyuFireheart I would say that armor really wasn't a big deal until metallurgy. A hide shield and some heavy clothing (if you weren't fighting in a hot environment) would have gotten the job done. Most "stone-age" societies centuries have been observed to wear little armor or clothing at all. The Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas wore pelts or cloth armor and wooden shields.
The "Linothorax" and boar tusk helmets and cuirasses aren't seen until the Bronze Age; Egyptians wore little armor at all (usually just cloth and leather) throughout the existence of their civilization. I would argue that before copper and bronze smelting people didn't fight on as great a scale or with as much protection other than what they normally wore for everyday tasks.
I do know that a Pacific islander society (I forget which one) made an armor made from coconut fibers
In Vietnam, there is evidence in documents of laws since the 16th century: each province had to supply 100 buffalo hides a year to make armour for the army, or if a soldier misses 3 times in shooting test, he had to pay 2 buffalo hides. Thought we don't know how they do it or what it look like but we know they did use buffalo hide to make armour for common soldiers.
A set of lamellar made with hard and thick leather scales worn over a gambeson is quite good protection. It is quite light as well.
I read somewhere that Eastern soilders would sometimes wear silk under their leather armour, so that an arrow that would pierce the leather wouldn't pierce the silk. The silk would go inside the flesh, wrapped around the arrowhead, so that the arrow could be extracted without catching on any of the soilder's flesh.
Since you asked us to saw what we think, I will. I personally think it looks hideous however genuinely think you should buy whatever you like.
I greatly respect that you acknowledged your specific leather armor as fantasy, whereas some would passionately defend it's place in history.
I liked your quick and to the point analysis of leather armor. Obviously you didn't cover everything but I'm glad you didn't because I probably wouldn't have time to watch it all in one sitting.
You paved the way for more content on the matter which I appreciate.
Love your channel, can't wait to see what you do for 200k subs when you get there but congratulations in advance.
What if leather armor was used like a mail, or plate armor? I mean, if they put it over a gambeson, they get the protection of both armor, and if the segments were made properly then it wouldn't restrict the wearer's movement. I think it would be lighter than maille(if you don't want the leather to be overly thick, which is not a good idea if you want to move freely), and maybe cheaper than it(iron was kind of rare at those times so, you know).
Ancient Greeks had cuir boulli torso armor before many city-states went over to fused-linen or scale.
Well, gambesons, depending on their thickness, are very good at keeping you warm in itselves, so if you are not speaking about siberian like cold, which would actually hurt the leather, then no, it would be unnecessary in that manner.
A somewhat thick cloth armor consisting of overlapping linen layers. The number of layers depends on the use of gambeson, as it's used for protection, or using it as padding for said maile or plate armour, as the former has more layers, alas thicker and providing more protection, while the other has less defensive capabilities, while being more flexible, providing mobility for the wearer.
Metatron, Shadiversity, and Skallagrim all have videos
describing and showing gambesons (or aketons, depending upon the sources).
Máté Kovács just wear a thicker gambesom
Leather lammelar armour looks cool.
Oh the fucking irony that the New York Times is saying that the truth is important.
Also, good video Meta, that too.
I think that leather you have there would be cool over mail.
BLTs and RPGs I'll try :D
Quite noisy, seems leather armour is not for sneaking around in........
jaocheu better than metal but still quite noisy ye ^^
+jaocheu Tell that to the Rogues in WoW.
I was
At best, then, a well-fitted gambeson, or just heavy cloth. Although any thief worthy of the name shouldn't need armor at all.
Shaitan Leather is the best armor for sneaking. It's made of HIDE.
Get it? Hide? Because....well.....I'll see myself out.
The Japanese had scale armor made out of rawhide called Hon Kozane. It was typically heavily lacquered, looking a bit like shiny plastic. Japanese scale is also laced in such a way to form rigid lames, a breastplate of Hon Kozane is just as rigid as one made of steel, it is not flexible. In later periods, scale was considered high class and was more expensive than solid plate, this was to the point that there are even armors made of solid steel plates that have notches cut in them to imitate the look of scale.
I think that simple leather armor is not a less expensive option than metal plate armor, but rather a more primitive one. I've heard historians speculating that legendary warriors, like the Assyrian Goliath or a war-time Pharoah from Egypt, likly wore leather armor simply because the technology to refine and forge metal into practical armor hadn't been developed yet. After all, most of these civilizations had just developed bronze, let alone iron or steel.
Samurai from before the introduction of the gun would be known for their leather armour. A special super tough laquer would be applied on the leather.
The Swiss peasant army was also known for their leather armour. Tight fitting and cut at the joints to make movement possible. This would later become a fashion in the renaissance.
As far as I can tell, and according to some experiments, leather armor does offer protection but it's less effective than plate or lined armor. As a matter of fact it was used by civilizations who did not have access to vast amount of metal and/or fabric, like the mongolians or the japanese for example.
And for the lorica segmentata, actually there is archaeological evidence that it was made from metal :)
westernclassicalstudies.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/armour-from-corbridge-2.jpg
I definitely prefer plate, or even mail, over leather armour.
you me and everyone else
Good evening Metatron! This is my all time favorite channel. Thanks for everything. Anyways, I was wondering if Greek Hoplites ever wore leather armour? I have seen depictions of this, although I know it wasn't a historically accurate depiction.
Zachary Coleman Yes they did use leather but mostly bronze
Nice dorkish armor :)
I'd say it looks more Orc-ward.
why man?
@@henrypaleveda7760 Never let a opuntunity go...
Metatron your channel rocks always something different
I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for your insight on this topic!
Thanks for this video. I'm trying to write a medieval story and your videos are a great resource! Nice armour. Looks great
Another great informative video well done.
LibertyPrime Thank you so much ^^
I had a discussion on this topic with a Danish reenactor, and he mentioned one interesting topic about gambesons "used" by sailing cultures, such as the vikings. He said that they probably didn't use gambesons that much (At sea at least) because when a gambeson gets wet (For instance you fall from a drakkar into the sea) it soaks so much water, that it becomes thrice as heavy, increasing your chances to drown dramatically.
He mentioned also, that most of them weren't armored at all (Some clothes to protect against the elements at least), except maybe a looted helmet. The rich guys, on the other hand would have maybe lamellar (Leather or steel) or maille armor, with leather jackets unerneath for padding (For the same reasons, that at sea you want to be as light as possible, otherwise you have no chance of survival if you fall overboard)
On the continent, however, they might have prefered gambesons, for their protective abilities.
more likely they were used a lot since they keep you good and warm.
Gustaphus Adolphus Rex died in his Leather armor made from moose. It still on display somewhere or the other. He was incapable of carrying heavier armor due to a wound earlier. The idea for his moose made hauberk came from the vikings which used it extensively.
Considering that during the early bronze age the Egyptian army wore padded cloth armor, it would be natural to assume that as metal refining methods improved, sturdier armor would be needed, it's not that much of a stretch to see many countries would for a time use leather armor. During the battles of Marathon & Thermopylae, the Persian army still wore predominantly cloth, leather, & wicker armor because it gave a significant advantage when dealing mostly primitive tribes living in the wide-open Indo-Persian plains & steppes.
Buff coats were commonly worn alone without a breastplate from the 1640s until they faded away in the early 18th century.
How I see it, the closest things to leather armor might be a coat of plates or brigandine. But in those cases, just as you said, the leather is only a component or a 'vessel' to which metal plates are riveted
Leather armor in ancient times; Very interesting topic!! Recently, I was reading about the ancient Egyptians. particularly some of the military items that have been reassessed as to what their original function was. One of these was a leather cloak, ie, Leather Armor! If you haven’t been apprised of it, you might find it very interesting. It was meticulously layered and stitched and probably afforded the Egyptian Pharaoh/Egyptian warrior, adequate protection from enemy archers, swordsmen, etc.
Any how neat channel!!
An indirect confirmation of the existence of some kind of leather armor can be found in etymology, in words such as the italian "corazza" (english "cuirass", french "cuirasse"), which comes from the latin "coriacea", meaning "made of corium", the latin word for leather. In english is a specific type of armor, but in italian is also a generic word for "hard and resilient protection". It had to be a pretty common kind of armor material for the word to stick around this long.
Leather armor was used throughout Asia. Ox hide was preferred because of it's strength. The ancient Egyptians used crocodile hide, Hippopotamus Hide, and cow hide. The Levant, Greece, and Anatolia did as well. It stands to reason that Europeans used leather armor for millennia. The lack of organic remains does not mean that a practical means of defense was not used. As you said, boiled, or , hardened leather makes sense. Leather was used on shield faces. So, why not on a soldiers body? It seems to make sense to me.
I collect ethnographical photographs and I can say that leather armour was much more common than many people think. Unlike metal leather was a by product of eating livestock so it was not a scarce resource.
I have seen Argentinian, Paraguayan, Congolese, Chinese, Indonesian, Filipino, Sudanese and Assamese examples and undoubtedly there were many other places that no photographic record survives.
My assumption, is if it was traditional than boar hide might have been an option. In more modern terms a half or three quarter split hide is insanely protective. I owned a pair of Raitchle mountaineering boots some years back that were half split boar hide. One of my less intelligent friends accidentally discharged a 22 pistol into my foot. Without a reinforced toe my boot stopped the round. I honestly didn't even feel the impact, and didn't realize it had impacted my foot until I found the round itself.
I admit it was just a 22 short so not a huge amount of power, but it was nearly point blank. Whatever the view on the armor, Raitchle does make some damned fine boots.
Leather could have been used as a lining protecting the miserable affects of metal next to the skin. Metal gets really hot and really cold while a thin lining of leather would prevent the temperature transfer to the skin. It could also protect the skin from any sharp bits in the armor. The access to leather rather than cloth was probably much easier.
The problem in my mind about leather armor is that ounce cut, the structural integrity is gone (for that specific strike not necessarily following blows). essentially if you pierce it, it stops doing work against the attack. cloth on the other hand tends to bunch up, allowing more material to make contact with the weapon thus protecting you more. an underlying gambeson works to alleviate this but it seems like a lot of effort to put into something when more cloth would likely do better. It does seem to serve well vs. non weapon related blunt forces, such as falling or or to simply put, stiff padding. leather leg guards make perfect sense, similar in effect to knee pads or elbow pads. for example: if a warrior drops to a a knee in order to to slip under an opponents guard or simply to avoid being struck, he would likely avoid a disabling knee injury that cloth simply would help (as much) to avoid. so in agreement w/ the Metatron, it was much more likely leather would have been used as an augment of more conventional armor, or as lashings, harnesses, straps, etc. rather than as armor in and of itself. sorry if it seems like i put words in his mouth, was just my interpretation.
I guy I knew in the SCA had a set of full plate-like armour that he made of thick leather boiled in beeswax, and I was checking it out, it'll stop a lot of damage, a guy with a knife would have a VERY hard time trying to stab though it, you'd pretty much have to be on the ground or let him just go to town for you to get hurt. I guess what I'm saying is , it'd be fairly effective .
Greek hoplite armor could be made of leather. The consensus is that it was made of fused linen, but there's nothing about the design that precludes leather. Something for fantasy writers and role-players to consider.
I have a half suit of curboil leather armor that I made myself. Using instructions I found online back during the Renaissance days in the late 90s early 2000s. Obviously as I've grown a little rotund it no longer fits as it once did as it was custom-made for my body by literally molding it to me. In Essence we cut out two pieces in the shape of a tank top shirt one for the front one for the back. Made out of cow leather. We folded these two pieces up and boiled them in a pan on the stove I forget the time that we had to have it in there for after reach this point I put on a thick wool sweater, and my friend took the piece out of the pot on folded it using some mitts to keep from being burned, placed it over my chest, which I held in place with a couple of pencils to keep from burning my fingers he then wrapped my torso with ace bandage I think it took two rolls, to hold it to form I then sat back on a couch and waited for 30 minutes, needless to say it got a little warm in there. After the 30 minutes we took off the bandages and took the now semi hardened piece of leather and put it over the side of a 5 gallon bucket to finish curing and did the process all over again for the back. Afterwards once they had dried for 24 hours on those buckets, we came back made sure that the pieces stayed confirmed to my chest and back. And used a mixture of a block of paraffin wax with styrene powder, melted into a bread pan using a double boiler technique and brushes to brush wax thoroughly into the two pieces of armor. Once that was done we used rivets to attach the front and back pieces to large piece of soft thin leather in the shape of a bath towel with a hole cut through for my head and riveted the shoulders to that piece of leather. The arms with the pauldrons I purchased at a Renaissance fair and attached beside the straps for the shoulders. The legs are worn on a belt separate from the Torso armor. This armor I can tell you from experience fighting in it provides adequate protection against most blows. And a leather has enough give to distribute the blowout word lessening the point of impact a little bit and preventing any penetration weapon from coming through. Obviously I have not tried to use this against Real weaponry let alone shoot at it with a bow, as this was rather an expensive and time-consuming procedure I would rather not damage my armor. But it would seem to me after wearing that too many Mark battles better suit of leather could exist and would provide protection enough to Warrant wearing at least over the vital areas of the body.
I chopped up an old belt which was about 3-4mm thick and put some. Pieces in boiling water.
It shrinks and go's rubbery and will dry to a shape.
When it dried it was like a piece of plastic or resin.
It eveutally snapped.
If it was cut into the shape of a vest and attached to someone when the leather was drying it could make some form fitting body armour.
With layers I could see how this would be somewhat good protection against edges and blunt force trauma.
I think my biker jacket would provide a bit of protection against common blades that's are not sharp etc
Years ago I read that bison leather was so valued for armor that it led to the extinction of European bison, subsequently bison leather from the Americas was used for armor.
Brings back memories of Cinciti Sword & Sandal epics on the 1950’s. Probably because it was cheaper than metallic & they didn’t have fake metallic spray can paint back then.
we kown that leather is not as sturdy as iron,but the thickness can be thicker.For example ,in one dynasty,most of iron armours with the thickness of 1-2mm,while the leather armour with the thickness of 4-5mm
The leather armor which I've found to be more historical from a production standpoint, are the various types of sewn leather tunics and girdles. I have quite a bit of experiemce making period reproductions, and those are my favorite and by far, the most comfortable and wearable leather armors. These ranged from skirmisher and light infantry armor to cavalry armor. I'm speaking of Antiquity of course. Sort of a ubiquitous sort of light armor worn all over the ancient world was a sort of scaled leather tunic with a linen lining and copper or bronze scales or rings sewn onto the leather scales. The pattern of the scaling depended on the type of soldier using it. Skirmishers and light troops overlapped top to bottom to defend against missiles and light weapons, whereas something like a cavalry girdle was the opposite, to protect the vitals and guts from penetrating injuries from below. These could range from quite light for skirmishers, to quite heavy such as some of the kit worn by Persian armored horsearchers, since scale was more resistant than chainmail to the composite bows used in the East. These armors could be made very crudely and cheaply, but could also be extremely well made and offer very strong protection depending on the scaling.
You did mention plates attached to leather. A great example of this would have something like the Visby coat of plates. I would love to hear more about them.
Metatron love ur videos keep doing them i find them quite nice and educative and some are funny like the katana vs longswords debunking but yes keep it up
I assume the video is about body armour and the medieval period, but leather is known to have been used in shields in the Bronze Age. Homer's Iliad describes the shields used by several of the Greek heroes in terms of how many ox-hides thick they are.
Walks into work wearing the leather armor, starts yelling "firebolt!!"
All I can say is, looks very cool when your trowing punchs.
A gentle correction on your English... "calf leather" implies it came from a very young cow. A better term, if you mean leather from a grown cow, is cowhide leather.
Thank you for covering these misconceptions about leather armors. Very interesting. I've wanted for a while to make a leather cuirass with a woven pattern like the elvish armors in LotR.
Love the color, very emerald and beetle like
We do have plenty of ancient Greek sources concerning leather armour, and it may definetely be said that such material was common for them. The amount of depictions of it is, however, declining progressively as we look at sources closer to modern time. My assumption is, though leather certainly works as a relatively cheap light protection, it was just taken off market by gambesons at some point in history. They were both cheaper and at least just as effective.
Looks badass dude. Should have included a greatsword or greataxe to complement it for the Wearing Time segment!
parlerai mai nello specifico dell' armatura lamellare (Lamellar Armour)?
Complimenti per il canale! mi sono iscritto da poco ma ho già guardato parecchi video e li ho trovati tutti molto interessanti e informativi senza però risultare pesanti. Complimenti anche per l'inglese e il giapponese sembri quasi un madrelingua :)
Leather armor also existed in the Americas, like North America. Because all they had were animals, they made due with what they had. To make their armor strong, they used sand reinforcing, in which the put glue on the hide, rubbed it in sand and did the process again
And remember, the Metatron has precious things!
Alaskan native armor video? I'd be happy to see
Tlingit armour, I assume?
@@conlinbryant5037 yes. If anything, I wouldn't mind seeing metal variant or a tanaa (shield) from my mother's native nation
Leather armour made from crocodile hide were used by some of the pharohs in battle in ancient Egypt. Though haven't seen much info on how effective it was in battle.
Btw when you mentioned Romans and leather lorica segmentata, what about leather subarmalis?
Siegfried von Haus Yes, subarmalis would be reasonable :) although they deserve a full video ^^
Metatron In that case I look forward to it
Hardened leather, plastic-like, doesn''t really compete with gambeson. It is not going to be a semi-flexible suit. It is going to compete with metal, formed into plates, helmets and so forth. So, whenever metal becomes affordable, leather armor disappears.
Almost seems to be like wearing a very fancy ganbinson over a less fancy ganbinson. I have done leather crafting as a hobby, still do when I can afford to, and would not rely on it for armor. That suit for LARP is definitely too cool. I even like the color.
I truly think (and just my thoughts) that the idea of studded leather armour may have come from an illustration seen from the wrong angle so to speak. Say a plate armour covered in a layer of leather with rivets "studs" protruding through (similar to what can be seen in some museums,). Thus it appears ar though it is simply leather though when handled or further examined it is indeed more akin to plate or splint armour. Though if looking at an illustration from ages gone by it might seem to be studded leather but in truth not so much.
Cliven thank you. Yes
Leather was often used as a component, but as far as a full suit, not likely in the middle ages, cows are expensive, though as the owner of a pair of saddle leather arm guards, I can tell you they're solid as rock.
+Paintchipsrocks , I wonder how horse leather is compared to cow leather. A nation with a lot of horses and cows (like the Mongols) would have enough leather for their troops.
American Indians had a limitless supply of bison hides, yet I don't know if they made any leather armor.
+Maxawe Some Not sure about horse leather, never used it. The issue with leather is the amount of care it takes, if it gets wet ect. Never heart of Indians using leather armor.
So I've seen this topic on Skall's, Shad's, and Matt's channels. I'm sure it's on plenty others. I am an avid leather worker and have worked with several mediums of leather. Veggie tans, seudes, buffalo, etc. I have made leather into armor and used it as structure for armor. I won't speak to the historical use aspect but to it's actual effectiveness. Here are some points to consider. (Fair warning this is the short version, which is fairly long for a TH-cam comment)
1. Slashing and cutting: Leather is dense or tight in its fiber content. This changes between types of leather and animal it came from, but is ultimately what makes leather excellent for belts, pouches and such. Because of the dense fibers it can support a lot of weight and stress. Linen in fiber density tends to be looser. Why do I say that. So imagine taking a piece of rope and it hanging loose in the middle, and then you slash at it with knife trying to cut it in half. Probably not going to cut it on the first strike, because it had give and can absorb some of the impact. Now pull the rope tight and try it again, you'll get a much better result. This is what makes leather, especially veggie tans bad at cuts or slashes, but padded jackets really effective.
2. Blunt force. Now inversely, leather over padding adds a significant level of surface dispersion and from own experience of being slapped hard with a rattan stick, will take almost all of the force from the shot. Not saying a gambeson can't absorb blunt force, but leather enhances it. Of course leather with no padding will do all of diddly squat for blunt trauma.
3. Hardened or boiled. So I have attempted the straight water boiled method of leather with varying results. It's never been anything significant in terms of protection. However drying out the leather then boiling it in 180 degree (farenheight) wax and then allowing it to dry has resulted in veggie tan leather that is as hard as a plastic cutting board. What happens when you do this is all the space between the fibers is filled with wax that then hardens, greatly reinforcing the already dense fiber bundles. I can attest that this leather will stop a sharpened swords edge or point. This method will make the leather heavier.
4. Lamellar. Alright so overlapping scales of leather (veggi-tan), will produce effective armor. This goes back to the rope analogy. The scales will be somewhat loose when laced together. This makes it hard for the weapon to bite effectively. Also considering that you effectively double the layer thickness (2x10oz scales = 20oz thickeness) means a weapon will have to contend with a lot of material to get through.
5. Rawhides. Rawhide we do know was available. It was used for shield edgings to reduce the chance of a wooden shield being split. Would rawhide make an effective armor, absolutely. It's very hard and is very effective at dispersing impacts. Would it have been affordable, probably not. Even today rawhide is expensive in comparison to other leathers you can purchase. It is however very easy to work with. Once thoroughly soaked, it is very easy to cut and shape. Then you let it dry and it becomes as hard as bone. Form a breastplate from two or three layers of it and I would imagine it could very easily stop an arrow. I've never tested, cause again it is expensive. However the idea would be similar to Greek or Chinese paper armors, that were layered and lacquered. Even modern ballistic plates are designed on this principal. The only downside to rawhide would be, if it you got rained on a lot, it would soften up again. Maybe coating it some sort of resin would help, but again I've never tested cause it's expensive.
Sorry this was long, but hopefully it sheds some insight. There is definitely a lot more to it, but this is the short version.
if i remember correctly in China Lammaner Armour made of iron or leather was very popular especially during the three kingdoms period as well as thick silk garments like a gamberson.
Green armor was worn by Angus McFife of the band Gloryhammer. Despite the names, the band has pretty good musicians
Leather shoe soles, on traditional expensive shoes, seem fairly resistant to abuse. I have no idea what process is used to make them.
It might also be interesting to look at the historical geographic distribution of iron. Areas without rocks don't have iron, so deserts, steppes and plains (where it's easier to mine cows) might change the balance.
Leather can be extremely tough to pierce. I believe Skallagrim has done tests using rawhide and it took multiple hits to barely pierce it.
While more modern societies tend to throw away broken items it would not surprise me if a medieval person who used a lamellar armor of leather would not have repurposed it into useful objects like hinge straps when they retired or gained enough wealth to aquire mail.
Leather was extremely accessible in the middle ages. Every larger village had a tanner and many people simply could produce tanned leather at home. In 13th century hungarian foot soldiers were described wearing padded leather doublets. Often 2 or 3 at the time. Leather armor definitely existed in many forms.
blacksmiths were just as common though.
In some parts of Europe yes. In others iron was more expensive and harder to come by. (Like in Eastern Europe.)
Point is there are historical description that at least parts of armies using leather armor. The people here are basically serfs who were required to do military service as skirmishers mostly.
+Timothy Heimbach There's a difference between a blacksmith, which you'd find in any village, and an armourer however. While my experience of smithing is very limited, I can definitely see a world of difference between turning out a fire poker and a breastplate, the latter requires certain skills which go beyond what a village blacksmith would be capable of. The making of armour was considered specialised enough to be a different guild from the blacksmiths in England (and still is one of the livery companies of the city of London, as is the Company of Blacksmiths).
The premium armour of warring state era in China were made of rhino skin. There are theories of Asian rhinos were hunted to extinction in China because of the demand for armour.
The early laminar armour were also made out of lacured hard boiled leather. They were very common.
In my research on the weapons of my Frisian ancestors nearly all sources claim they used leather coats exclusively, likely even without a gambeson. Even the sources who describe them in the Crusades say this. Strips of plate might have been sewn into/onto this, but that's not mentioned. The pictures even look like they could be wearing buff coats. One would assume they are gambesons, were it not for the many sources saying it's leather.
There is with them of course a practical reason for that: they travelled a lot by vaulting over water and by boat. The chances of ending up in the water were high, and they were known for guerilla warfare. Mail and plate armour is heavy and slows one down, and of course makes it impossible to swim.
Leather armor is water resistant, why it was somewhat common in rainy areas
Some North American native tribes could make shields from bison leather that could even stop bullets from early musquets, no problem with arrows and knives. Same kind of leather could be used to make armor and it would provide good protection.
About those leather coats belonging more to the renaissance than the middle ages... that's largely true of the iconic shining metal armor too, right? So it could fit into medieval fantasy just as well?
Anton V Kind of, if we really want to be technical some shining metal armours where developed in the late middleages so technically as long as it's not high middleages you could say that some suits of armour where late medieval.
Also the problem with the buff coats is that they where used during a time where you already had gun powder so they are iconic of that age and in my opinion wouldn't fit in a medieval fantasy.
Ok, thanks!
Anton V You are welcome ;)
That 'fantasy armour' would be interesting to see in a hardened / rawhide assembly. (Also, Love that green).
Gaulish soldiers are supposed to have primarily worn leather jerkins into combat I think, which sounds like a form of leather armor. Isn't it likely that when they wore their own version of the hamata chainmail that it was probably worn underneath to be used as their own padding?
Although this video was uploaded almost 3 years ago I must add something. Not only Mongolians wore lamellar armour made from leather, peoples in central and eastern Europe did that too as far as I know. Probably the armour was worn on a gambeson.
Where can I buy this wonderful looking Gambeson? I only find ones where the arms are also protected
purely logic on my part, i have no real evidence to support its historical use, but seems reasonable in a pre plate environment, but my thoughts on leather armor would involve wearing it in combination with both a gambeson and maille, probably as a mid layer. in my mind this would take an impact on the maille and being reasonably rigid would distribute the impact over a wider area which would allow the gambeson underneath to absorb more impact and as such give quite good protection, and would like to know if that would be in your opinion a reasonable thing to do (whether or not it is historically accurate)