As a microbiologist I am very concerned about prophylactic use of these antibiotics. For sure you are selecting for resistant organisms. This is clearly why disease is increasing in the hobby. We need to move back to observation and treatment or whole tank treatment with stuff like peroxide. The antibiotic use is going to end badly for everyone.
It’s not really prophylactic. The pet and livestock industry treats an entire shipment with a complete run of antibiotics once it’s received, and able to sustain treatment. Birds especially. Pretty much, morning of receiving. In the water, the slightest sign of anything wrong triggers the need for a treatment, because they have so many pests, and a “loss” might be every animal in the system. But ya, where I am in Canada, you can put pretty much whatever you want down the drain. In my opinion, the solution would be at municipal water treatment level. Imagine what the farmers must be doing…. My aquarium is negligible.
This is a complex question. The use of antibiotics is often vilified as a future problem but also saved countless lives, human and animal, for nearly a century. I understand the concern about prophylactic use. A closed system aquarium presents unique challenges.
People are using these treatments whether you like or not. Wouldn’t it be better to teach safe handling, correct dosage and disposal rather than just say don’t use it?
@maceysdaddy5150 well when we have no drugs to treat human infections then all that safe handling training won't matter. Antibiotic and drug resistance is a continually growing problem that stems from overuse. Use in agriculture and non medical uses is the biggest culprit in this as it gets into the water supply and environment. This is a much bigger problem than CO2 for example. It selects for resistant organisms in our environment. This is the real environmental crisis we are likely to face.
The really challenging thing about antibiotics is that it’s really easy to end up creating an antibiotic-resistant “superbug.” That’s the VERY good reason you’re told to take the whole dose for the entire length of the prescription you’re given, even if symptoms disappear sooner than that. Stopping sooner (or not taking the whole dose) can leave just the stronger bugs that are more likely to resist the antibiotic. Also some of these antibiotics are “broad spectrum” (cipro) which is why they are so effective. Sometimes though that’s like using an 8 lb sledge hammer to nail in one of those little tiny picture hanging nails. OVERKILL.
This is the challenge modern medical science has always faced. Prioritize saving a life today over future potential threats. I agree that it's not clear how long and how much to use in modern aquaria. That will come from when people decide it is a legit life-saving option for their corals and take exploration seriously. For what it is worth antibiotics are commonly used for fish and have been for a long time.
Hey Ryan. Do you know when Than is going to post the Cipro dosage? I bought a bunch of Acro from him last year and had the same thing happen to all of them were they all RTNed in literally 24 hours. I bought a bottle of Cipro for next time!
Vibrant never work for me. Reef Flux work great for me and my Corals afterwards went on a growth spurt in my Mix Reef. I had signs of algea growing nothing too crazy so it worked great.
@@Merknilash there's alot to factor, your tank size, your inhabitants, your regimen... My tank is 5 years old... The issues not in my tank. But if you'd like go buy yourself a serpent star place them in a quarantine and dose it with vibrant... And then you can match the exact test I did after I noticed my starfishes kept dying. It's actually quite gruesome and probably very cruel.
@@Merknilash they were part of my test too, they would die at molt if the tank was being treated with it... Don't get me wrong The product does exactly what it claims it will do... So not saying it's snake oil like most products like them ... And I do think they have a tiny little sentence about the possibility of something getting hurt by it... But I quit using it and just toss it in trash cause I'd rather have my tank mates happy and alive... I was dosing it for about 6 months how they recommended it...went through 7 stars and 6 emeralds before figuring out the cause with the help of my local fish store I'd like to add that it sure as hell makes a lot of sense now that they were caught lying, and that it's actually just some chemical... I chalked it up to it being a really aggressive bacteria... But turns out that was a lie. I'm really glad I watched this episode today it was an eye opener for me... The saddest part was watching my black tip formia melt it was almost 4 years old...
According to the Brazilian physician Jose Mayo who was the first to suggest the use of fluconazol , it acts on the ergosterol that is part of most of the algae membranes destroying it
I wonder how well you could apply a powerful antibiotic treatment to wet, live rock before cycling a new system. Like, heavily treat the rock to kill off pest crustaceans; they start cycling by introducing live sand and/or preferred copepods..
Please share other neonicotenoids or other pesticides that are tested for dipping. Bayer dip is not allowed in europe, and interceptors active ingrediends does not work on euphyllia white bugs (they do swim happily )
Tested 2 bottles of that stuff, its Just a flower extract. Did not helped to eradicate rtn stn problems, slightly reduced in fact. Cipro helped to eradicate vibrio and arcobacter totally
Great convo! I think a bulk part of this conversation is an example of the hobby being at the leading edge of the science. One thing I’ve noticed is that the peer reviewed journal articles on coral pathogens is very basic. I’m excited to be watching this knowledge develop! Thanks for sharing the info with everyone!! 🩷💚🩷
The vibrant thing is funny. Exactly the same thing happened in the freshwater hobby. They sell stuff called 'liquid carbon' as a replacement for CO2. It wasnt that at all, it was an algecide, a really good one. But mislabeled for no reason?
I used vibrant recently and it was the only thing that took care of my GHA outbreak which was absolutely killing corals It had no side effects in terms of killing corals. It will kill your Chaeto though, so you have to make a sacrifice..and I wasn't able to keep the chaeto alive in a saltwater bucket with a light either, for some reason (maybe lack of nutrients...could try doing it again and dosing nitrates and phosphates) Also - thanks Ryan for doing this kind of content. There's really nothing better, and Than is the Man. This series should be continued with industry professionals because it's a great way to showcase their business as well as share industry knowledge.
Hey Ryan great information just wanted to have a comment on cipro I don't know if when than is using cipro if he is doing continuously for 7 to 10 day's but I would be cautious if a full cycle is not given than whatever microbes haven't died from the treatment it might develope an immunity and come back with a vengeance and now become immune to cipro
The problem with Ciprofloxacin is its an illegal prescription only antibiotic in most countries. You can't just buy this stuff. Also encouraging the use of a powerful antibiotic to treat fish tanks is a fast track to antibiotic resistant super bugs. Mad!
The other problem will this is that stuff is going down the drain and that antibiotics is going in the Sewer system and water supply. And that's not good for us at all.
Yep. It's also quite expensive here in the US. My ciprofloxacin ear drops are $300+ a bottle without insurance. I don't understand why they chose that specific antibiotic.
When i used chemiclean, it fixed the algae problem, but it killed one chalice and a torch. I under dosed the recommended amount. So i dont believe i would try them again.
Natural way to control vermited snails, my yellow cubicus fish eats them along with tube worms. A fish that has risk but once established does great and so many people steer clear without looking at the huge benefits of Natural pest control. Similar to wrasses. I've actually never seen him eat my corals rather seen what looks like that he was eating a tube worm off a coral. Their mouths have a hard beak like structure to allow them their natural diet of breaking shells. They like a varied diet frozen and dried with greens. Great fish that's overlooked
Cipro use in the tank is not the problem. Its when you dump the water and maybe get mdr strains that can then come back and hurt humans, thats the issue. Making new class of antibiotics is not easy and new antibiotics are not being release like in the past. Releasing large quantities in general population is just a scary thought. Remeber this ends up in waste treatment plants with other medications. And this can be tested and can create MDR bacterial strains. Also, cipro will kill most bacteria including beneficial ones. Imo
Would cipro kill sponges? And on another note when did in tank treatment, all my clams died. I would make the assumption that they filter the water and got the full dose of antibiotics. So hence why I’m thinking the same would be true for sponges. I’m currently battling black chicken liver sponges. Seen it go in coral tissue. 😢
@14:51 so? You know what it does. Get it. Drink a SlimFast instead of an Ensure. Who cares? They’re both a glass of supper. Same thing. Tonic for your tank that works. Buy one.
You have to be very careful that ocean direct stuff I agree it's good for adding different kinds of that. But it can also be full of organics and can add a huge buy a load on your tank, so use with caution.
That's interesting. I have never had that problem, but I will pay closer attention in the future. I will say that was true with all of the old live rocks as well.
There are so many cipro haters out there! And right-on Ryan, this is vet care. I've used it twice for RTN and it works. And Ryan it is available as a aquarium specific product....Aqua-Cipro. There is also a commonly used antibiotic in the fish farming industry, Oxolinic Acid. It is commonly used in the koi hobby. It is not as broad spectrum as cipro but also has a strong following.
just heard about OA in the video...a very similar approach to cipro. In the end if we knew exactly what bacteria pathology was causing the issue then we can identify the correct antibiotic to use. The problem we have in our hobby is we don't have rapid methods for identifying the pathology.
And yet no vet involved and no vet will prescribed cipro to begin with, and just because a company is putting their own "aqua" label on an existing bottle doesn't make it aquarium specific........... At least Oxolinic acid is specifically prescribed for fish by aquatic vets, it is not absorbed through the skin by humans and does not cause significant permanent side effects... seriously!
@@DoYouEvenFishTankI hope that OA does work for STN/RTN…it’s an antibiotic too. I would love it if someone would ID these pathologies and match the correct antibiotic and dose. Till then a broad spectrum antibiotic seems to work…I’ve gotten scripts for Cipro for my dog btw….it is available in the vet community.
Antibiotics are used in virtually all vet care. There just isn't a coral vet and not really an aquarium fish vet either. I won't claim to know what antibiotic people should use, what dose, how frequently, what they will work on or if they should even use them all. I will say that like every other great advancement in reefing it will come from the community. A few people try something, and they are successful, more people try it, if they are successful then we all learn something new.
I just posted before you, it was killing my starfishes and emerald crabs... The starfishs literally start to melt and fall apart until they're nothing but a dead blob. And my emeralds were dying at molt
Be careful using antibiotics regularly, especially broad spectrums like cipro. You will create super bugs and cause more issues for the entire hobby long term. It is only a matter of time. Overusing this treatment will also inevitably render it useless in the future, so don't waste it now.
How much, how often, and what for are the questions. It's clear that antibiotics save many fish and coral's lives but finding a veterinarian that can treat your coral and fish is a pretty big challenge so the hobby has always developed its own knowledge.
“A theoretical problem that may materialize”????? Why do you think we can’t use tetracycline in our tanks anymore? It’s because it was overused and misused, and the microbes it was supposed to treat became resistant to it. Cipro is heading the same way. Please do the research Ryan. This is a big problem.
He has no idea what he is talking about, to even mention tetracycline is no longer any good in the marine aquarium world shows how little TG knows. Tetracycline is almost immediate negated by the calcium in saltwater rendering it useless in no time, it was never effective in saltwater.....
We have to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. I understand if some may say it is not. I would also understand if someone's LPS tank is getting wiped out by BJD they might think otherwise. Not talking about it isn't the solution, talking about it spurs these discussions and points like yours :)
@@BRStvRyan I completely agree that not talking about it isn’t the solution, but neither is talking about it as if it may not even be real. I have no problem with treating coral using antibiotics using the appropriate dosage for an established cause. General hobbyists (myself included) guessing dosage and treating entire tanks when a bath for one or two corals, is part the problem. When scientists are telling us that there is an issue, especially one with as much evidence as antibiotic resistance, we need to listen to them! Antibiotic resistance is going to have larger ramifications and be way more inconvenient than hobbyists limiting ourselves to treatments established or endorsed by scientists. I respect you a lot and I think you do a lot of great work. That’s why I was so shocked to hear you question the reality of antibiotic resistance. Otherwise this is a great video!
We need Than’s dosage of cipro tho!
When can we expect Than'd method to be posted for Cypro?
This content is gold. The comments arguing the potential creation of super bugs is valid but we as the hobby need to have the conversation
As a microbiologist I am very concerned about prophylactic use of these antibiotics. For sure you are selecting for resistant organisms. This is clearly why disease is increasing in the hobby. We need to move back to observation and treatment or whole tank treatment with stuff like peroxide. The antibiotic use is going to end badly for everyone.
It’s not really prophylactic.
The pet and livestock industry treats an entire shipment with a complete run of antibiotics once it’s received, and able to sustain treatment. Birds especially. Pretty much, morning of receiving.
In the water, the slightest sign of anything wrong triggers the need for a treatment, because they have so many pests, and a “loss” might be every animal in the system.
But ya, where I am in Canada, you can put pretty much whatever you want down the drain.
In my opinion, the solution would be at municipal water treatment level. Imagine what the farmers must be doing…. My aquarium is negligible.
This is a complex question. The use of antibiotics is often vilified as a future problem but also saved countless lives, human and animal, for nearly a century. I understand the concern about prophylactic use. A closed system aquarium presents unique challenges.
People are using these treatments whether you like or not. Wouldn’t it be better to teach safe handling, correct dosage and disposal rather than just say don’t use it?
@maceysdaddy5150 well when we have no drugs to treat human infections then all that safe handling training won't matter. Antibiotic and drug resistance is a continually growing problem that stems from overuse. Use in agriculture and non medical uses is the biggest culprit in this as it gets into the water supply and environment. This is a much bigger problem than CO2 for example. It selects for resistant organisms in our environment. This is the real environmental crisis we are likely to face.
The really challenging thing about antibiotics is that it’s really easy to end up creating an antibiotic-resistant “superbug.” That’s the VERY good reason you’re told to take the whole dose for the entire length of the prescription you’re given, even if symptoms disappear sooner than that. Stopping sooner (or not taking the whole dose) can leave just the stronger bugs that are more likely to resist the antibiotic.
Also some of these antibiotics are “broad spectrum” (cipro) which is why they are so effective. Sometimes though that’s like using an 8 lb sledge hammer to nail in one of those little tiny picture hanging nails. OVERKILL.
This is the challenge modern medical science has always faced. Prioritize saving a life today over future potential threats. I agree that it's not clear how long and how much to use in modern aquaria. That will come from when people decide it is a legit life-saving option for their corals and take exploration seriously. For what it is worth antibiotics are commonly used for fish and have been for a long time.
@@BRStvRyan I hope my comment didn’t come across as critical! Not meant that way at all. I love how you guys are contributing to the hobby :)
Very interesting conversation! The pros blazing the trail once again.
Wow guys amazing conversation!
Do another series of Thans.
I think that’s the first time I’ve heard brs talk about vibrant since that info came out
Oxalic acid is also used to kill mites in honey bees
Hey Ryan. Do you know when Than is going to post the Cipro dosage? I bought a bunch of Acro from him last year and had the same thing happen to all of them were they all RTNed in literally 24 hours. I bought a bottle of Cipro for next time!
Vibrant never work for me. Reef Flux work great for me and my Corals afterwards went on a growth spurt in my Mix Reef. I had signs of algea growing nothing too crazy so it worked great.
vibrant kills starfishes...it causes them to fall apart and melt. it also kills emeralds.
My emerald crab didn't seem to have an issue surviving vibrant. Not sure what happened with your tank.
It didn't kill my other inverts either
@@Merknilash there's alot to factor, your tank size, your inhabitants, your regimen... My tank is 5 years old... The issues not in my tank. But if you'd like go buy yourself a serpent star place them in a quarantine and dose it with vibrant... And then you can match the exact test I did after I noticed my starfishes kept dying. It's actually quite gruesome and probably very cruel.
@@omegablast2002 I can’t speak to the star, just the emerald
@@Merknilash they were part of my test too, they would die at molt if the tank was being treated with it... Don't get me wrong The product does exactly what it claims it will do... So not saying it's snake oil like most products like them ... And I do think they have a tiny little sentence about the possibility of something getting hurt by it... But I quit using it and just toss it in trash cause I'd rather have my tank mates happy and alive... I was dosing it for about 6 months how they recommended it...went through 7 stars and 6 emeralds before figuring out the cause with the help of my local fish store
I'd like to add that it sure as hell makes a lot of sense now that they were caught lying, and that it's actually just some chemical... I chalked it up to it being a really aggressive bacteria... But turns out that was a lie. I'm really glad I watched this episode today it was an eye opener for me...
The saddest part was watching my black tip formia melt it was almost 4 years old...
According to the Brazilian physician Jose Mayo who was the first to suggest the use of fluconazol , it acts on the ergosterol that is part of most of the algae membranes destroying it
interesting , We all ow Jose one :)
I wonder how well you could apply a powerful antibiotic treatment to wet, live rock before cycling a new system.
Like, heavily treat the rock to kill off pest crustaceans; they start cycling by introducing live sand and/or preferred copepods..
Supercharge the first cycle of the tank and establish a high biologically diverse tank early on
I second to use vibrant against bubble algae!
Please share other neonicotenoids or other pesticides that are tested for dipping. Bayer dip is not allowed in europe, and interceptors active ingrediends does not work on euphyllia white bugs (they do swim happily )
@27:27 maybe you can find that answer in the DNA bacterial profile you were talking about.
Cipro readily breaks down in uv light if I remember correctly either that or just light in general
Excellent consideration.
I used RTN/STN x by fauna marin when I had a really bad BJD issue and it really helped. Y'all should do a test on that product :)
Interesting. Has anyone suggested what's in that?
Tested 2 bottles of that stuff, its Just a flower extract. Did not helped to eradicate rtn stn problems, slightly reduced in fact. Cipro helped to eradicate vibrio and arcobacter totally
Great convo! I think a bulk part of this conversation is an example of the hobby being at the leading edge of the science. One thing I’ve noticed is that the peer reviewed journal articles on coral pathogens is very basic. I’m excited to be watching this knowledge develop! Thanks for sharing the info with everyone!! 🩷💚🩷
It's like jerry seinfeld told us years ago: figure what will kill me, then back it off a little 😂
The vibrant thing is funny. Exactly the same thing happened in the freshwater hobby. They sell stuff called 'liquid carbon' as a replacement for CO2. It wasnt that at all, it was an algecide, a really good one. But mislabeled for no reason?
I used vibrant recently and it was the only thing that took care of my GHA outbreak which was absolutely killing corals
It had no side effects in terms of killing corals.
It will kill your Chaeto though, so you have to make a sacrifice..and I wasn't able to keep the chaeto alive in a saltwater bucket with a light either, for some reason (maybe lack of nutrients...could try doing it again and dosing nitrates and phosphates)
Also - thanks Ryan for doing this kind of content. There's really nothing better, and Than is the Man.
This series should be continued with industry professionals because it's a great way to showcase their business as well as share industry knowledge.
Not happy that we were all lied to. We won't sell it because of that. I'd still use it.
Hey Ryan great information just wanted to have a comment on cipro I don't know if when than is using cipro if he is doing continuously for 7 to 10 day's but I would be cautious if a full cycle is not given than whatever microbes haven't died from the treatment it might develope an immunity and come back with a vengeance and now become immune to cipro
The problem with Ciprofloxacin is its an illegal prescription only antibiotic in most countries. You can't just buy this stuff. Also encouraging the use of a powerful antibiotic to treat fish tanks is a fast track to antibiotic resistant super bugs. Mad!
The other problem will this is that stuff is going down the drain and that antibiotics is going in the Sewer system and water supply. And that's not good for us at all.
Yep. It's also quite expensive here in the US. My ciprofloxacin ear drops are $300+ a bottle without insurance. I don't understand why they chose that specific antibiotic.
You can get a bottle for aquariums for like 50 dollars so that's a marketing issue cost not a production cost. It shouldn't cost 300.
@41:00 the water looks like it’s magnetic to the fish
When i used chemiclean, it fixed the algae problem, but it killed one chalice and a torch. I under dosed the recommended amount. So i dont believe i would try them again.
Chemiclean does not kill algae
Natural way to control vermited snails, my yellow cubicus fish eats them along with tube worms. A fish that has risk but once established does great and so many people steer clear without looking at the huge benefits of Natural pest control. Similar to wrasses. I've actually never seen him eat my corals rather seen what looks like that he was eating a tube worm off a coral. Their mouths have a hard beak like structure to allow them their natural diet of breaking shells. They like a varied diet frozen and dried with greens. Great fish that's overlooked
But won’t the Cipro kill all the beneficial bacteria too? Seems a bad idea to me…
Cipro use in the tank is not the problem. Its when you dump the water and maybe get mdr strains that can then come back and hurt humans, thats the issue. Making new class of antibiotics is not easy and new antibiotics are not being release like in the past. Releasing large quantities in general population is just a scary thought. Remeber this ends up in waste treatment plants with other medications. And this can be tested and can create MDR bacterial strains. Also, cipro will kill most bacteria including beneficial ones. Imo
Fluconazole works great and did not impact corals whatsoever. I had issues with vibrant and wouldn’t recommend it.
Would cipro kill sponges? And on another note when did in tank treatment, all my clams died. I would make the assumption that they filter the water and got the full dose of antibiotics. So hence why I’m thinking the same would be true for sponges. I’m currently battling black chicken liver sponges. Seen it go in coral tissue. 😢
Mine did gratuluję throught whole tank treatment
@14:51 so? You know what it does. Get it. Drink a SlimFast instead of an Ensure. Who cares? They’re both a glass of supper. Same thing.
Tonic for your tank that works. Buy one.
Come on Ryan we need updates to the 360 and the 750xxl.
52 starts next week. it will be part of that :)
@@BRStvRyan my man
@32:12 where the future is now, regarding hobby-wide unidentified, but already antibiotic resistant bacteria 😂
…Oh. You’re not posting one of these every day? Oh. Ok, I guess.
You have to be very careful that ocean direct stuff I agree it's good for adding different kinds of that. But it can also be full of organics and can add a huge buy a load on your tank, so use with caution.
That's interesting. I have never had that problem, but I will pay closer attention in the future. I will say that was true with all of the old live rocks as well.
There are so many cipro haters out there! And right-on Ryan, this is vet care. I've used it twice for RTN and it works. And Ryan it is available as a aquarium specific product....Aqua-Cipro. There is also a commonly used antibiotic in the fish farming industry, Oxolinic Acid. It is commonly used in the koi hobby. It is not as broad spectrum as cipro but also has a strong following.
just heard about OA in the video...a very similar approach to cipro. In the end if we knew exactly what bacteria pathology was causing the issue then we can identify the correct antibiotic to use. The problem we have in our hobby is we don't have rapid methods for identifying the pathology.
And yet no vet involved and no vet will prescribed cipro to begin with, and just because a company is putting their own "aqua" label on an existing bottle doesn't make it aquarium specific........... At least Oxolinic acid is specifically prescribed for fish by aquatic vets, it is not absorbed through the skin by humans and does not cause significant permanent side effects... seriously!
@@DoYouEvenFishTankI hope that OA does work for STN/RTN…it’s an antibiotic too. I would love it if someone would ID these pathologies and match the correct antibiotic and dose. Till then a broad spectrum antibiotic seems to work…I’ve gotten scripts for Cipro for my dog btw….it is available in the vet community.
Antibiotics are used in virtually all vet care. There just isn't a coral vet and not really an aquarium fish vet either. I won't claim to know what antibiotic people should use, what dose, how frequently, what they will work on or if they should even use them all. I will say that like every other great advancement in reefing it will come from the community. A few people try something, and they are successful, more people try it, if they are successful then we all learn something new.
Vibrant wiped out my tank !!!
I just posted before you, it was killing my starfishes and emerald crabs... The starfishs literally start to melt and fall apart until they're nothing but a dead blob. And my emeralds were dying at molt
Same for me too. After a month of stop using it. My sps going rtn one by one until nothing left. Never dose anything else during that time.
Be careful using antibiotics regularly, especially broad spectrums like cipro. You will create super bugs and cause more issues for the entire hobby long term. It is only a matter of time. Overusing this treatment will also inevitably render it useless in the future, so don't waste it now.
How much, how often, and what for are the questions. It's clear that antibiotics save many fish and coral's lives but finding a veterinarian that can treat your coral and fish is a pretty big challenge so the hobby has always developed its own knowledge.
“A theoretical problem that may materialize”????? Why do you think we can’t use tetracycline in our tanks anymore? It’s because it was overused and misused, and the microbes it was supposed to treat became resistant to it. Cipro is heading the same way. Please do the research Ryan. This is a big problem.
He has no idea what he is talking about, to even mention tetracycline is no longer any good in the marine aquarium world shows how little TG knows. Tetracycline is almost immediate negated by the calcium in saltwater rendering it useless in no time, it was never effective in saltwater.....
We have to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. I understand if some may say it is not. I would also understand if someone's LPS tank is getting wiped out by BJD they might think otherwise. Not talking about it isn't the solution, talking about it spurs these discussions and points like yours :)
@@BRStvRyan I completely agree that not talking about it isn’t the solution, but neither is talking about it as if it may not even be real. I have no problem with treating coral using antibiotics using the appropriate dosage for an established cause. General hobbyists (myself included) guessing dosage and treating entire tanks when a bath for one or two corals, is part the problem. When scientists are telling us that there is an issue, especially one with as much evidence as antibiotic resistance, we need to listen to them! Antibiotic resistance is going to have larger ramifications and be way more inconvenient than hobbyists limiting ourselves to treatments established or endorsed by scientists. I respect you a lot and I think you do a lot of great work. That’s why I was so shocked to hear you question the reality of antibiotic resistance. Otherwise this is a great video!
Good info
Than the man !
I agree. I like brave conversation and Than doesn't pull any punches :)