Okay hear me out... I agree that Scooby is the heart, Fred is the leader, and Shaggy is the lancer, BUT because the nature of the series is that the basic initial obstacles are frequently mental and not physical, *Velma* is the big guy because she fills the "point them at the problem and tell them to hit it" role, it's just that the problem is a mystery and she hits it with her brain. Meanwhile, Daphne is the brains because that archetype usually is dealing with specific problems the other characters really struggle with, but in the Scooby gang's case it's that she's by far the best able to handle interacting with people, and the Scooby gang is unusual in that most of them really aren't that good at that.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I know Zuko is presented as he's Lancer, especially when he's on the team. But Sokka is also Aang's Lancer. He's practical where Aang is spiritual, he pushes for fights while Aang pushes to avoid them, etc.
It's a case of the roles getting redistributed and reshuffled every time the team grows. The lancer mechanics was given to Sokka for S1 and part of S2. The middle section of S2 gave the conflict and contrast aspect of lancers to Toph. Sokka challenges Aang's approach a fair amount early S3 and eventually it was given to Zuko
it's what makes avatar so good: none of the characters can be uncritically pushed into certain holes, they're all complex characters with their own worldviews that frequently challenge each other. everyone thinks differently from aang and thereby aang has something to learn from everyone
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
No, what Blue said about age is true. An age difference matters less over time. Look at it like this: If you were born when I was 6, you're an infant while I've passed the toddler stage already. We live in different worlds. Decades later, you're 70 and I'm 76; we're pretty much the same age at that point.
@@renaigh Same age group is what I'm getting at. In one's youth, a single summer can feel like a whole year. Once you pass age 40, you can sneeze and miss half of August. By age 70, six years can go by in the blink of an eye.
My favorite thing about Han, it’s a little detail but, in the award ceremony at the end of the original film. Look close at Luke and Han’s outfits. Luke is wearing Han’s nice shirt and Han just buttoned up his every day shirt. Han is going to be awarded a medal for heroism, but gave his better formal outfit to the farm kid who doesn’t have so much as a change of clothes.
@@aaravgaur7 there is no hard proof or confirmation. But the clothes Luke is wearing in that scene are much more in line with Han’s style than with Luke’s or anything the rebels might have lying around for him to wear.
My wear related omg I am in love moment was with Boromir and Aragorn. In the directors cut, Aragorn takes Boromir vembraces after he died in remembrance and in Arwens vision of his own dead, he still wears them.
Not discussing Captain Rex and just putting him in with the other clones as if he isn't far and away the most important clone in the whole series and probably the most clear lancer in that whole show (both to Anakin and Ahsoka and even to an extent in Rebels) will forever hurt me to my core. Easy S tier.
Rex is also Cody's lancer to an extend much like the relationship between Obi-wan and Anakin where Cody is the standard disciplined Clone Commander while Rex is, much like Anakin, the loose cannon wild card.
I believe that due to the dynamic of the show, especially during the last season, Obi-wan, Anankin, Ashoka, and Rex all act as lancers to each other at some pint. Each one accompanied the other on their own missions, sometimes personal sometimes not. But it always allowed for the characters to help each other, grow closer to each other and develop a relationship of mutual respect.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 my brother in Christ, this is trope talk, not the myths series. Also, please read Talmud and realise that casting Kabbalah magic in spite of God is based
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
With Percy Jackson, the problem is that they're a trio, so almost everyone is pulling double duty; when we get the extended cast, the role-slots get weird: the most lancer to Percy now is Nico, but Annabeth keeps something of her lancer status while being the smart/heart/maybe big guy, Grover was primarily the heart, and maintains that, but Tyson, while being the literal biggest guy, is so childlike that gets to be also the heart de facto. I guess you could really try to do it in a book by book basis, with each different party comp, but Thalia is also mainly a lancer to both Percy and Zoe (for the book they're in) and Rachel I have no clue of where to put her Also not going into Heroes of Olympus bc, like One Piece, hell if I know what to do with 9 characters
I think no matter how the other roles shift around them, Percy and Annabeth maintain that really strong foil relationship, but she does become less of a _lancer_ to him over time. I'd say she mostly keeps a lancer-like status for the first series (well, for 4/5, obviously not much for the book she's damseled in), but in the sequel series, first they're separated for 2 books, then Annabeth is the protagonist while Percy is her super supportive right hand man, then they're totally on equal footing for the rest of it as the two protagonists that the giants are after (and it helps that they're basically never apart after that, so they function as a unit from a plot perspective). Also yeah, with Heroes with Olympus, there's a lot of interesting dynamics going on, but the team is too complicated and keeps changing who's actually present and who isn't, so there isn't time for a clear "5 man band-alike" to form. They go from 8 (I'm counting Hedge) to 7 (losing Annabeth and Percy but gaining Nico) to a different 7 (gaining back Annabeth and Percy but losing Nico and Hedge), and they keep splitting off into duos and trios for missions.
@@lanfae9353 ye totally agree on everything, specially on the HoO stuff (Percy as the loyal Lieutenant is very cute, I mean, who didn't cry when he yeets himself to Tartarus instead of being separated, and the later dynamic duos and golden trios help create different group dynamics), but I think maybe she doesn't *lose* the lancer characterisation in the first series, but change the subtype: from a pretty much challenger archetype to the significant other/life partner whatever Red called it, which is general lancers to lovers development
@@AymarMaluenda exactly. She doesn't lose lancer status, she simply shifts to a different type. As for the comment above yours (youtube won't let me ping twice, so here's hoping they come back or anyone after me cares), I feel like the Heroes of Olympus series works as a five man band when you realize that characters don't have to be a specific role for the group dynamic to be static and that having a role doesn't necessarily mean only one character can fill it. You mention that both Tyrus and Grover fill as the Heart, and they do, but they do for different people and different reasons. Grover acts more as a heart to the CHB kids that enjoy him for being a chill vibe. Tyrus acts more as a heart to the "newer" group (Nico and on) because his childlike behavior triggers the Guardian instinct. The roles in HoO fit a lot better when you focus on each character's dynamics with each other, and start putting them on scales instead of binary characteristics.
It turns out placing people into restrictive categories doesn't turn out great, who knew? The 5 man band trope gets a lot more complicated when you have so many characters and relationships with each other. Determining who is a heart vs a smart guy for example can get tricky when 3 could fill either role.
@@justbrowsing9697 Exactly, and that's something that I find a lot of writers need to do better on, and a lot of good writers are really good at, especially in the Percy/HoO case. A lot of people tend to view 5 man bands as a static creation and once a character is in there, they have to stay regardless of who they're around, but in reality, a well written character, given enough time to grow or enough characters to be around, will shift where they stand in a hypothetical 5 man band to fit whatever needs to be done, but catering to however they're capable of doing it. Heck, characters can fit into more than one slot at a time depending on who the main "protagonist" is in the episode.
Scooby Gang: Fred is the Leader, Scooby is the heart, Shaggy is the Lancer, Daphne is the powerhouse, Velma is the smart one. Mystery Incorporated is my proof. Scooby is insanely Emotionally competent and to quote jello Daphne is "Makeup Swatches, and Kicking Crotches"
I would argue Scooby is the hero with Shaggy the lancer. Those two are always the ones that get stuff done, for Scooby snacks. Daphne is the hart, Velma is the brain, Fred is the powerhouse do to him being reliable, cool headed, and the biggest. I think this largely depends on which series you are talking about.
I had a long answer to this written out but it basically boils down to “Scooby canon is too complicated for any answer to be correct, and the roles can be swapped around a lot”. I still think someone who’s seen the jello essay should understand Fred as the heart though. Oh also shaggy can’t be a lancer to Fred because they don’t have a dynamic, don’t really contrast each other and frankly almost never interact
@@purpleisdebeste Actually I'd argue that Fred and Shaggy actually do have a contrasting dynamic. Fred in driven, and brave while shaggy is a coward. It's often shaggy who's the one actively discouraging the plan as laid out by Fread.
@@lincolnjohn8227 Yeah but the issue is that’s also the contracting dynamic between shaggy/Scooby and literally everyone else, including temporary party members
Regarding Bakugo and Todoroki, there’s a scene in the light novels (which are written by a different author but Horikoshi has stated that they’re basically 100% in character) that I think sums up the differences in their respective relationships with Midoriya pretty perfectly! Basically, the Class 1-A boys are having a very intense pillow fight against the Class 1-B boys (long story) and there are two different moments where Midoriya gets distracted and starts muttering. The first time it happens, Bakugo yells at him to shut up and chucks a pillow at him (to which he responds “Kacchan, I’m on your team!”). The second time, Todoroki intercepts a pillow that would have hit Midoriya and reminds him, much more gently, to focus. Like, it’s such a small thing, but I think it sums up the difference in their dynamics pretty well! Also, to any BNHA fans who haven’t read the light novels: I highly recommend them, they are pure serotonin
@@galaxystudios370 hello again! You absolutely should check out the light novels, they’re very fun to read! A few other highlights include a chapter of Todoroki visiting his mom, That One Time Class 1-A Thought The Dorm Was Haunted, and Eri being the cutest thing in existence forever! (And if you, like me, happen to be part of the Alphabet Mafia, plenty of subtext to read into!)
Pikachu is totally the Lancer. From Indio- Orange Islands: 1- Episode 1 and 2 solidified their differences yet trust in each other 2- Remember how they defeated Brock? It took teamwork, and a willingness to try new things at Pikachu's physical expense 3- Pikachu would be the one talking with the new Pokémon, from Charmander to Butterfree to dealing with Haunter's antics to Mewtwo. 3.5- Pikachu's tears. Misty couldn't have brought Ash back. 4- Pikachu would get them in and out of trouble, sleuthing things up, just as much of a character as the humans. 5- Conflicts off the top of my head: -Not evolving to defeat Raichu/ Lt. Surge St. Anne and the Island arc where he led the Pokémon as the de facto leader as Ashe's main -Saffron City/ Lavender Town arc -Interactions with Gary, let alone Team Rocket, showing both unification against them but laughing at truths -Along the same vein, anytime Misty or Brock would say something insulting about Ash, Pikachu would either rub salt in the wound or defend Ash (including Ash's mom calling and underwear comments) -Trying to talk down Charizard, to flat out zapping him a couple times -Pikachu's Goodbye, the whole episode -Anytime Pikachu refused to do something. It happened a lot, you all know it, I just can't remember specifics right now. I want to say Celedon City with the Women's Only gym, refusing to fight Misty, some of the more dumb ideas they had... -Pikachu takes responsibility where Ash doesn't. From Togepi to foraging to proactively finding wild Pokémon, Pikachu acts as Ash's extension despite the conflicts. Remember the Eevee Brothers? Everything emotional with Richie and the Pokémon League? Getting all the attention from Mom? Helping Lapras trust? Pikachu leads the group while Ash's belly is the excuse.
I feel Charizard was to OG lancer in Ash's team. Though this train of thought made me realise Ash's team (and everyone's for that matter) are 5(or 6)-man-bands. I feel pikachu has a hybrid protag-lancer role based on its relationship with Ash bc amongst the team, pikachu is leader but in Ash's story, pikachu is Ash's sentient weapon/right-hand man. Oh and also Bulbasaur is the consistent heart that has it being the leader of Ash's "PC" pokemon.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Most of those traits aren't lander traits, OP. Half of those slot into "big guy" characters more than lancers. Meanwhile, Misty actively has differences. She doesn't make friends as easily, nor is she as quick to bond with Pokemon. She IS actively a gym leader and actually competent with her Pokemon.
Between he and Pikachu, yes, I'd call pika the lancer. But in a group with Misty and Brock? The pokemon are a part of the trainer's character. Especially considering how different the two species are. 10 year olds can't summon wind or control water with just their minds, they have creatures to do that. Of course a lot of physical conflict would be solved by the pokemon. Conflicts that require stuff like engineering, cooking, clear conversations with humans- (holy heck this fog is thick as heck. I wish I could show you, but it's like you're literally in the void) anyways where was I? Oh yeah, ...clear conversations with humans, or gathering small pokemon around you and hiding in a tree to keep them warm are reserved for the people of the pokemon world. To sum it up: For Ash and Pikachu, Pikachu is the lancer. But for a group that includes the trainers, Pikachu is more a part of Ash the leader. You could argue that Pikachu is a powerhouse.
Heck, I'd argue BBC Watson was who carried the show, since we were there for Martin Freeman emoting at Sherlock's crazy and going between cool hero and hedgehog in distress. Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch's chemistry was a core part of the illusion of the show being actually good.
At least in Mystery Inc. Daphne could be the lancer, she contrasts the personality and desires of Fred and is the person that actually challenges him to change and evaluate himself
Also she’s competent on purpose, which is another component of the lancer. When Fred’s not around, Daphne is easily the most qualified to start calling the shots
10:38 The problem with Frodo (in the movies) is that a movie isn't exactly the most ideal medium to properly convey Frodo's internal struggle, so his declining state can come off as kinda unjustified if you don't actively go out of your way to read between the lines.
The declining Frodo is a good way to explain hidden illnesses to those who aren't getting it, I think. Those who know him best can see the markers of pain and exhaustion, but everyone else just sees a grumpy hobbit
It’s one of the biggest problems when adapting a book to a film. The internal struggle is hard to convey because you can’t be inside the character’s mind in films without dialogue.
Whenever people say Sam was the real hero, I just think of how offended Sam would be if he heard them disrespecting Frodo like that. Frodo carried a burden Sam will never fully comprehend, and it's a good thing he didn't because he got to actually just move on, start a family, and look after the Shire in Frodo's absence.
My biggest issue with Mabel being the lancer is she is more the heart of the group. I think Stan is more the Lancer of the group, though you could make the argument for Wendy.
Heart/Chic has very few functions besides being the emotionally stable force that grounds the team with morality and common sense. Firstly, common sense is obviously not on the menu. Secondly Mabel has shown to be incapable of empathizing with Dipper's issues many times. In fact, many episodes focuses on grounding her and allowing her to reduce her ignorance and broaden her perspective i.e. sock opera and the unicorn episode. Rather than dishing out emotional support and grounding, she is the recipient of such lessons. This is best highlighted with how she needed the emotional pep talk from Dipper in the finale when that is textbook "Heart" behavior. Lancer feels more appropriate since she contrasts Dipper anyways
@@xolotltolox7626 I feel Wendy is the Big Guy while Soos is the heart. Basing my opinion on Red's Big Guy episode, Big Guys are capable of boosting the team's combat power but stays away from any of the key plot-relevant fights so the Leader can take lead. Like Hulk fighting countless aliens in the background while Iron Man is responsible for the nuke in Avengers 1. Wendy destroys mooks easily in team fights but always leave the key moments for Dipper
Kuwabara was awesome. Even when he was kidnapped, he had a dimension-cutting sword that was the only thing the bad guys needed and as such he was the only reason they were there. Also, whenever the love interest (Yukina) was involved Kuwabara was pretty much unstoppable.
Probably one of the first characters I hated and then came to love as he developed as a kid. Unlike say, Vegeta, Kuwabara isn't a badass in his intro, so there's nothing but this punk at first.
Kuwabara didn't make it higher on this list as a lancer because he's simply too nuanced to fit a single trope. Also, for what jokes one might make about how his sword was just a tiny bit more powerful after its upgrade, do pay attention to when Kuwabara, Hiei, and Kurama are fighting Sensui. Sensui is shrugging off Hiei's and Kurama's attacks, but Kuwabara ... ? Sensui is careful to DODGE every attack. He knows that sword would be lethal in its current form; he may toy with Hiei and Kurama, but he's taking Kuwabara deadly seriously.
@Ricardo Urteaga Burneo Sensui knew exactly how to play them. I don't know if it's that the boys are stupid / predictable or Sensui is just that good at planning.
I honestly feel after he got that last power up they had to remove him from the last season cause he would just be cutting black wholes on people . Honestly i could see him do some crazy shit whit that technique.
I'm honestly shocked that Vegeta wasn't brought up way sooner, when Red was like "we all know who this is gonna be" at the start I thought "Vegeta?" I've never even watched Dragon Ball
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@illegalmemedealer3549 well, in heaven you get a bunch of cool abilities. Wouldn’t you like to use ki energy and fly? You could be vegeta in your very own personal play though of dbz. Wouldn’t you like that?
I feel I need to jump to Capt. Kirk's defense a bit here. Kirk gets a bad rap in pop culture and his negative traits have been exaggerated over the years. The Chris Pine version of the character is a somewhat flanderized version whereas if you watch the original series Kirk is actually way more competent than he is given credit for. Sometimes hot headed sure, but far from the sort of Zap Branigan version of him that lives in a lot of people's minds
Yeah, I think that's partly because the film versions of Kirk are more Zapp, and that's what most people know. The TOS Kirk is actually quite sensible, but not everyone watches that.
Roddenberry's vision for Kirk was that he was equally scholarly and action-oriented; one might recall that upper classmen at Starfleet Academy used to torment him for his studiousness. I think the problem with OG Kirk is ultimately that he was a generic Western lead without much of any character traits outside of Equal To Whatever Task You Put In Front Of Him.
Kirk was surprisingly more levelheaded than I thought he would be. The guy is charismatic and pensive, you could realistically understand why Spock would be friends with him.
Kirk's like Superman... There is the Deep well developed character over The original series and Movies... and then there's the Version EVERYBODY "knows"
Chris Pine's Kirk was closer to Homer Simpson (given command of a nuclear submarine on his first day aboard) than to the traditional Kirk, who was given a cutting edge warship in his early 40s after working his way up from the bottom...
My favorite thing about the turtles is that while Mikey and Donnie both have pretty set in stone roles across their adaptations, Leo and Raph are always filling multiple roles that kinda cross over with each other. You've got Mikey as the Heart and Donnie as the Smart Guy, but then you have Leo, who is both a Leader archetype with a lot of Lancer traits (constant disagreement with the group, etc. Plus the entire character conflict between him and raph in the TMNT movie is because he ran off on his own). Then, there's Raph. Who is sometimes the Leader, ALWAYS a Lancer, and also usually the Big Guy. It just creates a lot of fun energy amongst the group.
Luke spends so much of the trilogy functionally on his own, it’s hard to have character dynamics with the others. Rey has a similar situation, both spend time with mentors, enemies and side characters, there’s not much time to have lancer relationships develop.
Shadow as villain protagonist is kind of a bad take. His game, as hilarious bad as it is, does have a canon ending where he saves the earth, finds out he is the true shadow and decides the past doesn't matter so he will keep moving forward and do the right thing, he has been firmly in good guy status, though he has become more of an asshat lately due to Sega mandates. He is definitely a Lancer to sonic specially in 06 and the comics(both archie and IDW), he is dark and confident but unlike sonic he will do whatever it takes and keep fighting for what he thinks is good. Nothing shows this better than the sonic universe comics post genesis wave. Which i think Red should read because they heavily feature our boy knuckles. He even fights Shadow on equal footing and its pure awesome, just a joy of two lancers throwing hands.
I still would not call Knuckles a lancer, if bucky barnes loses lancer status when his interesting brainwashed arc ends then Knuckles loses lancer status when his "im too stupid to think for a second" status ends, hes CLEARLY the powerhouse how is that not his default status?
@@fucin His status as a Lancer in the games should be stripped, but in the comics(Both IDW and Archie) and Sonic X are still firmly mantained. And i think that's where Red was coming from mostly, the IDW comics.
@@soneca_br except she discounted Shadow as a lancer because of a single game appearance even still theres the treasure team tango comics where Shadow is a lancer to both Blaze and then Rouge
@@fucin The "Knuckles is an idiot" thing is more a result of recent bad writing than a trait the character has always had. In Sonic X he was more of a hotheaded and sarcastic loner type who got wrapped up in the Sonic crew's heroics due to the Master Emerald usually being involved/in danger somehow. He pretty much only went with them in Season 3 because Tails took the liberty of using the Master Emerald as his ship's power source, so Knuckles pretty much had to come along. He was a little more gullible than the rest, but not a complete idiot.
It would've been funny if a Watson interpretation pretended to learn fighting from Holms, only to smash cut to Watson effortlessly holding Holms in an armlock.
I like this line from Dr. Strange’s Wong when Strange can’t be bothered to address some muggles trying to give him a hard time. Wong is all like “In many ways, he is my master, but in other ways, I am his.” And gets into a kung fu pose. Cue royal ass-kicking.
While Kai from Ninjago may not be defined by the lancer role in most of the show, he does have a very textbook lancer moment in season 1, when he thinks he's going to be the all-powerful green ninja and the leader up until he "discovers his full potential" by realizing his job is to protect the actual green ninja. Plus, he's red and fire-themed.
Unfortunately, as their editor, Indigo is the Smart Guy of the group. Blue is Leader while Red is Lancer, ironic from the channel's beginnings, Cyan is the Heart, they are currently lacking a Big Guy.
I feel like with Zoro there was an overlooked aspect where he does do the most Lancer-y thing out of the crew. Spoilers for Water 7: Usopp leaves the crew and wants to be let back in at the end of the arc. However in one key scene, Zoro insists that Luffy wait until Usopp apologizes before he can return, stating that as the captain he cannot be so flippantly disrespected and let the offender get away with it. Zoro insists to the point where HE will leave the crew if Luffy doesn't follow through with demanding the apology from Usopp. No one else really has a scene like that with Luffy and so I think it's fair to call Zoro more of a Lancer than Nami since she falls more squarely into the Smart Guy category and if Luffy is the leader than Usopp is for sure the heart. Sanji basically rotates between big guy and smart guy depending on what the story calls for.
I remember in Next Mutation Raph had his own motorcycle separate from the jeep the other turtles drove around in (yes, really) just so he could angrily storm off on it. It even had its own garage door that lead out of the sewer. And every time he quit the team or snuck off I think they used the same footage. It was hilarious.
2:20:06 I wholeheartedly agree. I love Kevin and Gwen's relationship. Its one of the few teenage ships that I felt was well-written and had real chemistry. They had their ups and downs, communicated with one another (for the most part) and above all respected each other. Definitely one of my favorite ships in animation.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
If we've doing Sonic-DragonBall parallels (and why wouldn't we?); Knuckles is much more a Piccolo then a Vegeta. Serious dude, early antagonist, gets over-Shadowed (sorry) by the following bad guy.
"You're not going to move your seat up, are you?" "No" That exchange alone makes Bucky an S tier Lancer for Sam. Also, in the MCU he's not really a Lancer for Sam because he wants to be Captain America, but rather he's competing with him to be Steve's Best Friend
yes!! been trying to find someone who said this! falcon and the winter soldier was peak lancer dynamic for sam and bucky! and that who i thought they were gonna talk about and then they said cap and i was like “but sam”
Wildcard Lancer: James the Red Engine from Thomas the Tank Engine. In the books and early show he's part of a trio with Gordon and Henry, but in the later show he shifts to being part of a trio with Thomas and Percy. In either case he thinks very highly of himself , and can get a bit put out when Sir Toppham Hatt picks someone else in the trio for an important job. And more importantly, he's red for all but one of his stories.
I wanted to mention this in the chat but on a different track; James is prime Lancer material for sure: - easily the scrappiest of the tender engines (bar Donald & Douglas maybe?) - not bring up his own faults - sets himself up for pratfalls & gaffes many times 'coz he can't shut his trap when he needs to Plus he's Lancer to SEVERAL other members of the fleet: - more ego/self-interested than most (maybe Top 3 in the books, beat by Spencer, maybe Gordon & early/prickly Thomas in the TVS) - not the strongest (physical or otherwise) but still tries to punch above his weight But I'd go one step further: Thomas is also a lancer - paradoxically more so than most, which makes his being chosen to be the TVS titular focus character all the more interesting across the franchise: - Thomas is Lancer/Foil to Gordon because they have important jobs (Gordon starts as the top link engine & pompous while Thomas starts as a cheeky shunter), their parallels & trials humble the two till they form their alliance in Down The Mine) - Thomas is amicable with Edward (helping Edward as both prove themselves as reliable main line/passenger engines after Trouble in The Shed) - Toby's wise(acre?), Thomas is a wise-ass - Thomas is more prone to pricklyness than Percy, while Percy is closer to the conventional focus character/audience surrogate yet has less ego than Thomas (they still butt heads at times) - while Thomas & James don't talk much after Breakdown Train in the books, they started getting put into stories as Foils/Lancers to each other from S3 onward (especially after Mutton retired in S7) by playing up their similarities - perhaps Thomas can also be seen as a Lancer to Duck, Ryan & Arthur (as they all run branch lines but Thomas is more Red Oni to their respective Blue Oni) Sorry it took so long to finish that, just thoughts I had
@@nihilasta2661 it's a very overlooked series because the last couple owners have aimed Thomas mainly at toddlers & infants, rather than the all-ages approach of the Awdry Family; the show's available in lots of places (official or fan uploads) and the Railway Series books are well-written with gorgeous artwork - highly recommend it! (:
@@jaredhebert942 I'm pretty sure I still have some of the books at home.....when I eventually finish everything else I'm reading I'll reread them. If I remember by that point 😅
I spent so much if Naruto wondering why we haven't stopped caring about the toxic friend yet. (He literally never acted like a friend or romantically interested in Sakura) The crux was after he learned the full truth about his brother and still kept being an edgy contrairian. (His entire motivation was to avenge his clan, he later learns his clan was wring and his brother was a hero, and after losing all his original motivation made 0 changes to his gameplan, i guess he decided to bandwagon wanting to be hokage but that felt like something out of left field)
I think Shippuden made him pretty miserable, like in first part he's pretty ok. He was edgy but kinda cared for others till itachi came bitch slapped the shit out a him and when he realized that naruto has better moves than him. But that's just my two cents
In my opinion, Sasuke is one of the most interesting characters in the show. I love his progression from having a singular goal that he would sacrifice anything for, to gradually showing more of his true colors by protecting his comrades, and realizing that his partners’ lives are more important than immediate victory. What I think is fantastic, is that every time Sasuke shows vulnerability, he’s reminded by his brother both verbally and through mental-torture that he lacks enough hate. Sasuke is constantly being pulled between light and dark throughout all of Naruto & Shippuden. He was so committed to following what he believed to be Itachi’s will, that he only succumbed to Naruto’s way after it was clear his goal was both unattainable, and that even after everything that had happened, his old friends still love him unconditionally.
@@maazbinaziz3676 shippuden in general is just a lot worse imo. I feel like all characters got a lot blander, along with their design. The fights also got a lot less creative, the only exeption being my boy shikamaru.
I needed to put this in regarding Samwise because I had to convince a co-worker that Sam wasn’t in LOVE with Frodo. This doesn’t come out in the films as much as the books because of the time crunch the movies had to do. Frodo took over management of Bag End and the ring a long time before the quest took off and was significantly older than Sam. When Gaffer Gamgee retired due to arthritis, Sam took over his position (pretty much as a teenager) and grew through his more formative years with Frodo in a very avuncular role - almost a second father figure. Sam truly loved Frodo but it was a family love, not romantic.
Word to that, but even in the movie it can be seen as a brotherly relationship where they don't have a homophobic aversion to touch. That was actually something Ian McKellen coached them on, which strikes me as he would be the one most aware of homophobic issues.
@@TheMimiSard In the book they were even more open to physical demonstrations of affection. When Sam found Frodo stung by Shelob, he held Frodo and wept. When he found Frodo in the dark tower, Sam held Frodo and kissed his unconscious face. They didn’t go that far in the movie but I loved that they weren’t afraid of showing physical affection. It was wonderful. I even understand how the movies needed to cut out a lot of the time but it did lose some of Frodo’s character as a man that was actually 50 years old. That made him less of a middle-aged man in hobbit years but still a full 12 years older than Sam, who was still young and had a full life ahead of him.
Older men can’t be gay with younger men? Sam and Frodo were very much written to be reflective of British officer/batmen relationship… but they are VERY much evocative of Achilles/Patroclus. And all the characters modeled on their dynamic. How you could say otherwise when Tolkien was such an ardent Classicist idk. People see the relationship as gay for a reason. But it’s also… It not strictly text either. Hence the endless discussion
@@DOOMsword7 Oh, I agree, and I am sure there was an element of the officer/batmen relationship intended given Tolkien's background. I would disagree however, that their relationship was anything like Achilles & Patroclus because the text of the Iliad (at least the translation that I read) was so explicit. They left no doubt about their relationship. Frodo and Sam is still a discussion to be had about the movie version. I don’t mean to ‘no homo’ the storyline (a term I just learned) but I don’t see that in Tolkien's story. Love is love but it doesn’t have to be sexual. The idea that men cant love each other very deeply without being gay seems an unfair limitation to me. I also agree that older and younger men can be a lovely coupling. My only regret about the movie making Frodo so young for the journey rather than the 50-year-old hobbit that he was, was the loss to Frodo’s character, not his relationship with Sam.
43:50 if fred's the leader, then it's shaggy, because they contrast each other. Fred is confident, self-assured, and smart, whereas Shaggy is easily scared, distracable, kinda gullible, and not very smart. not to mention the contrast in their visual design, with Fred being more top heavy and having a broad chest and Shaggy being thin and slouching. Plus, whenever Fred says they should split up an look for clues, Shaggy (and Scooby) always protest, he pushes back against Fred. And in some cases, the time taken for the gang to convince Shaggy and Scooby to look for clues tips an important domino for the plot of the rest of the episode. That push back isn't just a silly staple of "let's split up" "no way man" "have some scooby snacks" "okay fine", sometimes its pretty integral to the episode. obviously, Velma is the brain, that's like her entire character, but then what does that make Daphne? Well, I think she actually serves a double role. She is *also* the brain, and there's multiple instances of her figuring stuff out before Velma does, but I also recall times where she's slapped a monster with a handbag or a nearby object, so she's also the big guy sometimes. Daphne is a much more flexible character than the rest of the crew, and it serves to spread out the work, so the characters don't always feel like copy-pastes of the five-man-band. If perhaps Velma's been putting in a lot of work providing logic to the situation, whether or not the logic works out, Daphne can step in and apply some intuition or be more practical, she has what I would almost describe as street-smarts. So she can give Velma a break and be smart herself. It's a big deal having the smart character be a girl, but its an even bigger deal to have the only 2 main cast female characters both be very intelligent in different ways and play off each other a lot! And on top of all that! One of them is very nerdy and a touch shy, while the other is fashionable and outgoing, and they're both smart, self-reliant, and awesome. I just... like scooby doo a lot
Okay so first off massive props and kudos to you for giving a great argument for shaggy and Fred being foils to each other, I honestly thought it was impossible but this is a really good analysis (though I might object to calling Fred smart). That said, one small note, Daphne isn’t the smart guy just because she is smart sometimes. That just makes her a well rounded human. I think Daphne is probably the most competent member of mystery Inc so it makes sense she has brains, but Velma is the one who has “smart” as a personality trait. Anyway yeah good analysis especially Daphne as big Guy, really good job on this!
@@purpleisdebeste yeah, I was thinking that about Fred a bit, and Shaggy isn’t always necessarily dumb either. It’s more about the confident vs. scaredy-cat dynamic. And yeah that’s true about Daphne, she is genuinely the most competent and well rounded of the bunch, but I think sometimes Velma’s intelligence is very much book-smarts, which in certain situations is kinda her downfall! But yeah, I thought Daphne’s cleverness and quick-thinking slotted her at least partway into be the smart guy when Velma occasionally takes a backseat
@@jasperdracona I think if Velma gets damselled (which I don’t think ever happens in Scooby Doo history) then Daphne temporarily fills the role of the smart guy. She’s definitely the smart guy in 13 ghosts which doesn’t have Velma (unless you count Vincent van Ghoul but he’s more of a 6th ranger since he’s usually staying behind while The Gangtm handle things)
Who hopes OSP plays Monster Prom in the future, so we can see Red simp over the werewolf athlete Himbo, Indigo trying to out sass the sexy Medusa crime boss, and Blue agreeing with the hipster vampire about how Swedish poetry laid a new foundation for heavy metal
I don’t know if the kind of comedy the osp crew likes is the kind of jokes Monster Prom makes. I like monster prom but I don’t know if it is their vibe.
I think that's what the team behind Rise was going for since Season 1; just have a lot of Turtles I just need to knuckle down & watch, any recommendations for essential episodes across the different shows?
@@jaredhebert942 you honestly don’t need to know any episodes for the movie. It was very much made in mind for first time watchers. As for the show, the 20min episodes are the most impt for continuity sake. I recommend to watch the movie first as a litmus test to see if rise is for you
@@jessefanshaw8948 I saw a few episodes as Season 1 was debuting, but the early going for Splinter turned me off (I know he gets better); hope to watch at some point
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Kuwabara was the Heart of the group. Like hardcore. He’s the guy who was willing to die to save the three mind controlled humans purely by trying to appeal to their better nature. He saves Seaman by just being a nice guy and a friend. He’s literally the only one to get power boosts for feeling emotional connections with the victims of the person he’s fighting.
I mean, by virtue of the format of their group, there can be multiple role assignments for each individual. That said, for much of the show, Yusuke was the leader, Hiei was the big guy/powerhouse while also somewhat pulling duty as Yusuke's lancer from a Demon perspective, Kurama was always the Smart Guy, but was also a powerhouse on occasion, and Kuwabara acted as the (sometimes bleeding) Heart of the group while being Yusuke's Human lancer at the same time. The way I see it, Kuwabara always represented how Yusuke grounded himself with the people around him. Kuwabara acted as contrast because Yusuke tends to somewhat hide his emotions while Kuwabara tends to show his to the world regularly, and at the same time while Yusuke was the instinctual fighter that often focused on a single aspect of things, Kuwabara was a more intelligent fighter who sometimes let his emotions get the better of him during combat, for good or ill. This ends up rubbing off on both, however, with Yusuke opening up more while Kuwabara better learns to direct his emotions, which also enhances their combat styles. As for Hiei, his point of contrast is in the two's pursuit of strength and their reasons for doing so. Yusuke ends up pursuing strength more to be able to help others than for his own ends, whereas Hiei first gave up his strength in order to find both his jewel and his sister and then worked hard to get it back and exceed his original power originally for entirely personal reasons. However, as the two interacted and rubbed off on one another, Hiei softened slightly and came around to Yusuke's line of original thinking, while Yusuke ended up indirectly seeing the logic behind Hiei's original noticing that power alone may not help you find what truly matters to you (even though this is more retrospective of a take, given Yusuke likely doesn't learn the truth about Hiei's past the same way we, the readers/viewers do and can be more said to find that perspective on his own).
In regards to Sasuke, a LOT of his stuff is later in the story, after the heel turn, he's a constant contrast to Naruto in the entire second half, the the last few episodes he basically takes a chill pill and mellows out, in Boruto he even goes full on piccolo The last Naruto Sasuke fight Sasuke knows he's not nearly as strong as Naruto the entire time, he's just trying to get Naruto to stop trying to save him, it's hilarious. But like I said, after that dude mellows, good on him for getting the angst out of his system
I'm pretty surprised that I didn't hear any mention of Brooklyn from Gargoyles. That dynamic is mostly apparent in a few episodes, but throughout the series he functions as an alternate role model to his peers when Goliath isn't immediately present. When Goliath isn't around, Broadway and Lexington look up to Brooklyn, which I'd an interesting facet of the Lancer role occasionally stepping awkwardly into leadership.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Red: you get half points for convincing me to watch ReBoot all the way through. I watched bits and pieces as a kid, but I do not do serial release stuff well - even books I tend to lose track of mid-series if they're still coming out and those are often years between them, so I never watched the show all the way through. Then I came across OSP and you were pointing out how amazing it is and I was like "well, maybe it's not just a dumb kids show I enjoyed as a dumb kid." And it was, indeed, not just a dumb kids show. It was quite excellent.
I think Bucky isn't the greatest example of a Lancer when it comes to Steve Captain America But he does seem to get more Lancer points when paired with Sam Captain America
Elementary is probably my favorite show of all time and I get so much life from hearing you guys talk about it, because hopefully that means More People Will Watch It. Comments section, please watch Elementary; it's the most aromantic piece of media I've ever encountered and I will be chasing the high from the Sherlock and Joan relationship for decades. At points it makes some extremely 2012 decisions but I have never, NEVER seen a platonic relationship portrayed SO well.
Wait wait wait why didn’t you talk about how Bucky is the Lancer to Falcon as they work as a better hero lancer Dynamic as falcon is pretty much the Goku to Bucky’s Vegeta
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Hot take but I think Midoriya is more of a lancer to Todoroki, especially looking at the early tournament arc and their fight where Midoriya says "Come on, are you even trying you haven't hurt me this entire fight!" while most of his fingers are broken from overusing his ability and just the general nature of Midoriya constantly breaking rules and bringing other people into his shenanigans.
for bleach I'd say it's a lancer-relay race where each arc passes lancer duties to a new person. it starts Rukia until uryu is introduced then it's uryu until renji then renji until the visoreds pop up at which point it devolves into a game of who's the lancer between shinji, rukia/renji/hitsugaya, and hollow ichigo, and then at the end Uryu grabs the lancer stick back and takes off running with the I'm evil now, sike, I infiltrated the villains, and need to handle this all on my own
I'm glad you did miles edgeworth because you were The catalyst that got me into ace attorney. it's been over a month since the rewatch where i actually paid attention for that bit and the hyperfixation is not going away
I LOVE Frodo, but he has a massive martyr complex. Sam, on the other hand, has hope til the end he and Frodo will make it back. I think that’s where the lancer-ness comes in and why Frodo appears unloyal - Frodo is convinced (for good reason) he’s going to his death with the ring and doesn’t want anyone else to die. Sam is convinced they’ll get there and make it back. Frodo doesn’t want anyone else to come cause he genuinely believes it’ll lead to their death, while Sam wants to come to make sure he’s there to help keep Frodo alive. They’re perfect foils
Ugh, Batman and Superman as enemies. This list has it right, Batman and Superman are buds who respect each other. It fit Frank Miller's purposes to write them as ideologically incompatible in "The Dark Knight Returns", and unfortunately people have come to take that as the norm. In reality, you've got a detective and a reporter who should very quickly be able to suss out each other's motives, and realize they vary at most in style.
They actually are pretty much ideologically identical Both: No killing, ever The strong protect the weak Be a shining example to those around you Try to do it alone when you can to avoid hurting others
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
11:00 in, I daresay Frodo is Sam’s lancer. He’s the one always brooding and going “you’re not better then me!” (purely due to the ring’s influence, but still.) It’s actually an interesting frame to try to read the books from, might get me past the Emyn Muil next read through. 21:40 y’all are totally underselling Inigo and Wesley’s interactions post-Pit of Despair. Between the snark while puppeting a still mostly dead Wesley, and their interactions around the topic/encounter with the Six-Fingered Man, Inigo and Wesley absolutely further inform us each other’s characters quite handily. Especially 6-fingers, their attitude towards him foils each other and also supports each other. Also, disappointed in chat for not bringing any of the good Digimon lancers: Matt, Rika, or even Koichi.
I'm going to agree Shaggy is the Lancer for the Scooby-verse. He foils the most important trait of the gang, namely his cowardice. Even Scooby isn't really a coward, he just plays off of Shaggy when they're together because he's Shaggy's dog.
I love how the only thing the Ring can think to tempt Sam with is making him the greatest gardener in the world (something he arguably becomes anyway at the end).
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord
As I see it, Knuckles is a CONTRAST to Sonic, wheras Shadow is sort of twisted execution of the same character themes and traits. Knuckles is physically powerful vs Sonic's speed, Red vs Sonic's blue, introspective and unsure of his own identity and purpose vs Sonic's carefree attitude, is an Echidna vs Sonic's Hedgehog, and so on. Shadow, on the other hand, shares many of Sonic's traits, but with a twist: Not just the speed (but with his glider boots) and being a hedgehog (but curved spines), but even his personality: like Sonic, Shadow is cocky, overdramatic, pursues what he thinks is right against all odds, and loves one-liners. But Sonic does that with a radical 80's/early 90s 'tude, vs Shadow's late 90's/00's aloof badboy notion of coolness... at least in SA2. After SA2, especially in his eponymous game, he just becomes super edgy and Sonic's Vegeta. But in SA2's, he's much more of a twist on the same concept and characteristics, which is intentional considering that his name early in development, Terios, allegedly (it sounds like it could be BS but I don't know greek) means mirror or to grant wishes (which is also a big thing in his arc in SA2: granting Maria's wishes). And it makes sense, because Metal Sonic already exists as an actual dark/evil Sonic, where he's a more fundamental contrast or nullification of Sonic's traits then even Knuckles: Rather then being a different spikey mammal, he's a machine, and instead of having another strong personality, he has none.
Given what a Lancer traditionally is they're supposed to contrast, which Knuckles does and thus is a Lancer to Sonic. I never got why some people thought Shadow was since it makes zero sense you you illustrate WHY he makes no sense as a Lancer. He's a foil but not a Lancer.
@@Arcanua it depends on your definition of a Lancer. Shadow does contrast Sonic too, hence his name. Its not a binary issue and Sonic has had more than one Lancer even beyond Knuckles and Shadow, they're just the most well known
His characterisation in 06 is the best part of the game and the best cutscene also involves him "If the World decides to be my enemie I will fight as I always do" Takes of the inhibiter rings and starts to go Musou on the Mephelis clonearmy and the Mysic makes it pitch perfect
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Batman vs TMNT movie on here already, but it is a very interesting case study for how the different team members of the Batfamily and the Turtles interact with each other, and how different combinations of them work well together or clash. Batman and Leo get paired up a lot seeing as both are leaders (Batman also has a great mentor relationship with him), but he also has some interesting interactions with Raph - lampshading that they're both brooding loners who nevertheless need their families to keep them grounded - and Mikey, who is basically the complete tonal opposite of him. We also get Donnie and Batgirl teaming up to be nerds together, Raph and Mikey paired with Damian Wayne (one of the few times I find him tolerable), as well as some cool contrast between the villains, with Shredder and the Foot Clan in an uneasy alliance with Ra's Al-Ghul and getting to see Joker and the Arkham inmates get mutated into different animal hybrids. Easily one of my favourite Batman things of the last decade.
42:37 I think most of us here are agreeing that Scooby is the heart, and Velma is the smart guy. Fred is most likely the leader, he is the one that calls the shots. And if he's not, Daphne is the leader. That makes the lancer most likely Shaggy, Daphne, or both. No reason it can't be both. Get a nice Lancer Triangle going. Shaggy is definitely the Big Guy. His charisma isn't, but he's always the signal that things are going to turn out okay.
Well there is the times when shaggy gets hypnotized(phantosaur movie) to be more confident as well as a few other times like in the live action movie where he got strong guy juice(scooby doo 2 monsters unleashed)
Fred as leader Daphne as lancer (and Shaggy as big guy) does make sense. (Yeah, being cowardly and arkward does work against Shaggy fulfilling the role but he and Scooby do fulfill it sometimes (such as when they are not afraid, Scooby has intimidated people by growling at times)).
I feel like Shaggy and Scooby both play the role of the heart, and Daphne, especially in iterations where she's more than just "the chick" is much more defined by her relation to Fred in a way a lancer would.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I gotta say, I so appreciate it every time Red brings up Slayers. It was the first non- 4Kids anime I ever watched, introduced to it movie first by my brother, because that's what he had a hard copy of, before going on to get a hold of the series and OVAs. The jawdrop I went through when I realised Naga is actually Amelia's 'runaway' older sister... Anyway, literally any time you wanna talk about Slayers I'll be here cheering! Also Xellos turning up when Filia's around is the funniest thing, god, I need to find a copy of Slayers so I can rewatch it
Great video, though I disagree on the matter of Bleach; Uryu is the Lancer all the way He's the one whose ideal are in the most opposition to Ichigo's and challenges his thought process the most along the way. The fun point here is that he is the opposite to the typical by being the Blue to Ichigo's "Red", the Archer to his Swordsman The fact you said you gave up after Aizen does explain this since it means you missed the TYBW arc which is where everything about their differences is really brought to a head.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Funny thing Todoroki has the set up for being a sasuke, the whole family issue and all, but bakugo is way closer of actualy stepping into that trap despite having literally no excuse at all
On DCAU Batman and Superman - I will *ever* delight in that one episode where Clark went down to Gotham to temp _as_ Batman while Bruce was either sick or stuck doing business in Metropolis. Dude absolutely *TERRIFIED* Bruce's rogue's gallery by using his super speed to be constantly behind them, and just suddenly *tanking* bullets. Batman's always been about evoking a supernatural force of justice to throw criminals off balance, and Clark accidentally did a *whole dang lot* to really shore up that reputation.
Bucky Barnes is not Steve Roger's lancer, he is Uncle Sam Wilson's lancer. The Republic never made any laws about "War Crimes" so neither the Republic and Jedi nor the Confederacy of Independent Systems abide by any of the things we consider rules of "civilized" warfare.
I assume hiring and paying for an assassin to try to murder one of the republics senators would be extremely against any law of any law abiding society and that was before the war officially started. CIS was definitely breaking laws with that.
I was trying to remember if there were any other stories where the hero and the lancer get together. I am ashamed of how long it took me to realize that Annabeth is Percy’s lancer in the original series
Yugioh 5ds has no right being as good as it is. The fact that card games on motorcycles not only makes sense, but is built into the entire world, characters and plot is so dumb but so well written
And if we’re talking Lancers, there’s a very strong argument that Jack Atlas (the rival) is the easily the best in Yu-Gi-Oh!, and pretty solid in general
GX had a new concept as weird as card games on motorcycles every other episode. Card games vs. a chimpanzee Card games vs. a guy who makes everyone near him stoned Card games vs. An amazon woman who turns out to be a tiger
Bakugo is the absolute best lancer in MHA! From the start he has all the ability and skill to be a hero, all he needs to learn is the spirit of heroism, whereas deku has all the spirit and needs ability and skill. Bakugo has also learned a lot of the lessons deku needs, like smiling in the face of danger, his is a smile of challenge more than hope, but he still smiles, while deku is panicking his way through every fight. Bakugo's character arc is realizing how deku is the ideal of heroism, and supporting that ideal, while deku's arc is realizing that ideal into the world.
Does Achilles count? He shows all the stages of a Lancer's life: •Egg: Ship on its way to Troy •Larval: Happy dude with girl, girl gets taken away triggering •Pupal: Salty burrito cocoon. Friend dies resulting in final stage •Adult: Human weedwacker of Death
I would argue Mabel for S tier. There is nothing Raphael or Samwise does that Mabel does not do. She supports her brother, she is a foil to her brother, she is a contrast to her brother and she fights her brother. She happily takes the lead and just as happily turn against him. There is no lancer more lancer than Mabel. Also, she has a red sweater (at times).
"I've come to the conclusion that when I say 'you can ship 'em,' I mean 'they should be besties,' which is not what everybody else means by that, so that's fun" *how dare you call me, a simple ace, out like this*
Okay so obviously indigo is the lancer. I think red and cyan could both be the big Guy (martial arts and fencing respectively) but I know less about cyan so I’m gonna take what I can get w/ her. That leaves red as the leader/smart guy and blue as the leader/smart/heart. We have one left over so I’m gonna say give Cleo the Heart so blue can be smart guy and red can be leader (although ludohistory as smart guy also makes sense and I respect going cyan as heart red as big guy, blue as leader)
In my opinion, Susie is the one who best fits the Lancer trope in the group. She spends most of Chapter 1 opposing Kris, who is controlled by the player not just in the meta way, but in-story. If you try to play the non-violent way in chapter 1, she's the one who defies what you want by attacking everyone, causing you to have to work around her by warning the enemies. But then by the time everyone is in the King's castle, she comes around and becomes easier to work with, she lets us tell her how to ACT. And at the end of the chapter, she and Kris end up becoming actual friends. And in Chapter 2, Susie continues to be our Lancer, and she shows this off during the Sweet Cap'n Cakes boss, when she ends up changing the mechanics of the battle so that she and Ralsei no longer have to rely on Kris for them to be able to ACT, which makes things easier for the player to win battles peacefully. So, at least in my opinion, Susie is a good example of the Lancer trope.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I think Dante Bosco is a great Lancer actor in general because of Prince Zuko and Rufio in Hook opposing the late Robin Williams' Peter Pan/Peter Banning
33:07 that's a story bit that gets used in "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?" A Batman story by Neil Gaiman which presents multiple potential deaths of the Batman and different characterisations as told by his friends and enemies. Alfred's story shares some ideas with that concept and is possibly the best one there. It's a really good story (as you'd expect from Neil Gaiman) that I'd strongly recommend. Edit: I clearly need to watch ahead before commenting, this is exactly the story that Red mentions a few seconds later
The problem with One Piece here is that instead of a 5 man band it’s a 9 man band. There are different parts in the story where different crew members oppose Luffy and he learns from them differently. Nami in Arlong Park, Usopp in Water 7, Vivi in Alabasta, Sanji in Wholecake, Robin in Water 7, also Franky in Water 7 (it’s an intense period). Zoro is introduced with opposition but it’s gone once he becomes the secondary leader.
I would say there was a 5 man band as they were entering the grand line with the main issue actually being the big guy. Luffy is the leader obviously, Nami was the smart guy because she tended to think things through more than the others before she acted, and Usopp was the heart because he hadn't yet developed his bag of tricks so he played a support roll mostly, but the issue comes from Zoro and Sanji. At his introduction Zoro was the lancer but Sanji started taking on some of the lancer characteristics as, including have some of those characteristics towards each other. with them also both kind of playing the role of Big Guy to a lesser extent but Zoro probably fitting that role better.
I like cap & tony switching sides is kind of a great idea, as the two are effected by eachothers ideology enough to make the conflict personal. It's so emotionally raw because we know both characters could be on the same side of this conflict because they were just a movie ago.
Gajeel wrecking the guild and him crucifying Levy and then going on to joining the guild and becoming a dedicated member and dating / marrying Levy later on, that was such a wild ride
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord
Solo was a pretty good, fun movie, but I think it suffers from essentially being a feature-length version of the opening to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, wherein the young main character acquires everything iconic about their adult selves in a single weekend/afternoon (respectively).
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I would like to point out Bucky may be a much better Lancer to Captain America than he is to Captain America. That is to say that Sam Wilson and Bucky have a much better protagonist/lancer relationship, with their primary differences relating to Bucky having internal angst over his past deeds versus Sam’s externally based angst over how he is perceived.
Y'know, so long as we're talking about Arcee (TFP) as a lancer, we should also talk about Wheeljack and (potentially?) Smokescreen as lancers. At some point, they both fit the trope really well, if not as more established lancers.
Okay hear me out... I agree that Scooby is the heart, Fred is the leader, and Shaggy is the lancer, BUT because the nature of the series is that the basic initial obstacles are frequently mental and not physical, *Velma* is the big guy because she fills the "point them at the problem and tell them to hit it" role, it's just that the problem is a mystery and she hits it with her brain. Meanwhile, Daphne is the brains because that archetype usually is dealing with specific problems the other characters really struggle with, but in the Scooby gang's case it's that she's by far the best able to handle interacting with people, and the Scooby gang is unusual in that most of them really aren't that good at that.
Wild
Wait
Wait
Wait
WHY? THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!
That's. Insane but a good take. I do think every character covers multiple roles but the ones you pointed out are definitely correct
That makes so sense
The entire time Red talked about Spock I just her trope talk on Mary Sue's:
"Flawlessly logical I admire your mind."
I vote for Lancelot as Lanciest Lancer ever to Lance
He even lances his Lord’s Lady… a lot.
It is in the name, it has to!
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 what in the name of sanity does that have to do with rating Lancers?
You could say he . . . Lanced a lot?
I know Zuko is presented as he's Lancer, especially when he's on the team. But Sokka is also Aang's Lancer. He's practical where Aang is spiritual, he pushes for fights while Aang pushes to avoid them, etc.
It's a case of the roles getting redistributed and reshuffled every time the team grows. The lancer mechanics was given to Sokka for S1 and part of S2. The middle section of S2 gave the conflict and contrast aspect of lancers to Toph. Sokka challenges Aang's approach a fair amount early S3 and eventually it was given to Zuko
it's what makes avatar so good: none of the characters can be uncritically pushed into certain holes, they're all complex characters with their own worldviews that frequently challenge each other. everyone thinks differently from aang and thereby aang has something to learn from everyone
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 fuck outta here jesus simp, nobody cares
@@jamesmayle3787 Cool story bro
No, what Blue said about age is true. An age difference matters less over time.
Look at it like this: If you were born when I was 6, you're an infant while I've passed the toddler stage already. We live in different worlds. Decades later, you're 70 and I'm 76; we're pretty much the same age at that point.
This is true.
That’s why the half your age plus seven rule works the way it does (as you age the lower limit of your socially acceptable dating pool increases)
you're in the same Decade at least.
@@flamingpi2245 I wasn't talking about romantic relationships per se, but yeah that tracks
@@renaigh Same age group is what I'm getting at.
In one's youth, a single summer can feel like a whole year. Once you pass age 40, you can sneeze and miss half of August. By age 70, six years can go by in the blink of an eye.
My favorite thing about Han, it’s a little detail but, in the award ceremony at the end of the original film. Look close at Luke and Han’s outfits. Luke is wearing Han’s nice shirt and Han just buttoned up his every day shirt. Han is going to be awarded a medal for heroism, but gave his better formal outfit to the farm kid who doesn’t have so much as a change of clothes.
Woah, thats pretty cool, If thats what they were implying then thats so awesome.
@@aaravgaur7 there is no hard proof or confirmation. But the clothes Luke is wearing in that scene are much more in line with Han’s style than with Luke’s or anything the rebels might have lying around for him to wear.
My wear related omg I am in love moment was with Boromir and Aragorn. In the directors cut, Aragorn takes Boromir vembraces after he died in remembrance and in Arwens vision of his own dead, he still wears them.
@@SingingSealRianahe always has the bracers in the main movie as well. He just gets the taking them sceen in the extended
Not discussing Captain Rex and just putting him in with the other clones as if he isn't far and away the most important clone in the whole series and probably the most clear lancer in that whole show (both to Anakin and Ahsoka and even to an extent in Rebels) will forever hurt me to my core.
Easy S tier.
Rex is also Cody's lancer to an extend much like the relationship between Obi-wan and Anakin where Cody is the standard disciplined Clone Commander while Rex is, much like Anakin, the loose cannon wild card.
@@gokbay3057 but he's somehow just enough of the solider to be stabilising Ashoka and Enakin from being wild cards!
I believe that due to the dynamic of the show, especially during the last season, Obi-wan, Anankin, Ashoka, and Rex all act as lancers to each other at some pint. Each one accompanied the other on their own missions, sometimes personal sometimes not. But it always allowed for the characters to help each other, grow closer to each other and develop a relationship of mutual respect.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 my brother in Christ, this is trope talk, not the myths series.
Also, please read Talmud and realise that casting Kabbalah magic in spite of God is based
Can we take a moment to appreciate the person who marked all the different conversations in a little over 4 hours of footage?
Judging from previous streams, Red is that person. And yeah, that's amazing.
Yes, yes I can.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 haha no
With Percy Jackson, the problem is that they're a trio, so almost everyone is pulling double duty; when we get the extended cast, the role-slots get weird: the most lancer to Percy now is Nico, but Annabeth keeps something of her lancer status while being the smart/heart/maybe big guy, Grover was primarily the heart, and maintains that, but Tyson, while being the literal biggest guy, is so childlike that gets to be also the heart de facto. I guess you could really try to do it in a book by book basis, with each different party comp, but Thalia is also mainly a lancer to both Percy and Zoe (for the book they're in) and Rachel I have no clue of where to put her
Also not going into Heroes of Olympus bc, like One Piece, hell if I know what to do with 9 characters
I think no matter how the other roles shift around them, Percy and Annabeth maintain that really strong foil relationship, but she does become less of a _lancer_ to him over time. I'd say she mostly keeps a lancer-like status for the first series (well, for 4/5, obviously not much for the book she's damseled in), but in the sequel series, first they're separated for 2 books, then Annabeth is the protagonist while Percy is her super supportive right hand man, then they're totally on equal footing for the rest of it as the two protagonists that the giants are after (and it helps that they're basically never apart after that, so they function as a unit from a plot perspective).
Also yeah, with Heroes with Olympus, there's a lot of interesting dynamics going on, but the team is too complicated and keeps changing who's actually present and who isn't, so there isn't time for a clear "5 man band-alike" to form. They go from 8 (I'm counting Hedge) to 7 (losing Annabeth and Percy but gaining Nico) to a different 7 (gaining back Annabeth and Percy but losing Nico and Hedge), and they keep splitting off into duos and trios for missions.
@@lanfae9353 ye totally agree on everything, specially on the HoO stuff (Percy as the loyal Lieutenant is very cute, I mean, who didn't cry when he yeets himself to Tartarus instead of being separated, and the later dynamic duos and golden trios help create different group dynamics), but I think maybe she doesn't *lose* the lancer characterisation in the first series, but change the subtype: from a pretty much challenger archetype to the significant other/life partner whatever Red called it, which is general lancers to lovers development
@@AymarMaluenda exactly. She doesn't lose lancer status, she simply shifts to a different type.
As for the comment above yours (youtube won't let me ping twice, so here's hoping they come back or anyone after me cares), I feel like the Heroes of Olympus series works as a five man band when you realize that characters don't have to be a specific role for the group dynamic to be static and that having a role doesn't necessarily mean only one character can fill it.
You mention that both Tyrus and Grover fill as the Heart, and they do, but they do for different people and different reasons. Grover acts more as a heart to the CHB kids that enjoy him for being a chill vibe. Tyrus acts more as a heart to the "newer" group (Nico and on) because his childlike behavior triggers the Guardian instinct. The roles in HoO fit a lot better when you focus on each character's dynamics with each other, and start putting them on scales instead of binary characteristics.
It turns out placing people into restrictive categories doesn't turn out great, who knew?
The 5 man band trope gets a lot more complicated when you have so many characters and relationships with each other. Determining who is a heart vs a smart guy for example can get tricky when 3 could fill either role.
@@justbrowsing9697 Exactly, and that's something that I find a lot of writers need to do better on, and a lot of good writers are really good at, especially in the Percy/HoO case.
A lot of people tend to view 5 man bands as a static creation and once a character is in there, they have to stay regardless of who they're around, but in reality, a well written character, given enough time to grow or enough characters to be around, will shift where they stand in a hypothetical 5 man band to fit whatever needs to be done, but catering to however they're capable of doing it. Heck, characters can fit into more than one slot at a time depending on who the main "protagonist" is in the episode.
OSP Lancer Situation
Blue: Protagonist
Cyan: Right Hand woman Lancer to Blue
Red: Blue's Villainous foil
Indigo: Red's Dragon Lancer
...and cleo as the cute lil (possibly magical kitty) mascot?
I wouldn't call Red & Indigo villains (Chaotic/Neutral Good if anything), but I can see where you're coming from
I mean, I get the protagonist feel more from Red than Blue sometimes?
Nah, Red and Indigo are antiheroes and the comments section is collectively the villain
@@cn8229 muah haha
Diego from ICE-AGE is one of the great examples of nicely written Lancer.
And then the sequels don't give him much to do
Fun Fact: Sean Austin, who played Samwise in Lord of the Rings, also voiced Ralph in the 2012 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles tv show.
Scooby Gang: Fred is the Leader, Scooby is the heart, Shaggy is the Lancer, Daphne is the powerhouse, Velma is the smart one. Mystery Incorporated is my proof. Scooby is insanely Emotionally competent and to quote jello Daphne is "Makeup Swatches, and Kicking Crotches"
I would argue Scooby is the hero with Shaggy the lancer. Those two are always the ones that get stuff done, for Scooby snacks. Daphne is the hart, Velma is the brain, Fred is the powerhouse do to him being reliable, cool headed, and the biggest. I think this largely depends on which series you are talking about.
I had a long answer to this written out but it basically boils down to “Scooby canon is too complicated for any answer to be correct, and the roles can be swapped around a lot”. I still think someone who’s seen the jello essay should understand Fred as the heart though.
Oh also shaggy can’t be a lancer to Fred because they don’t have a dynamic, don’t really contrast each other and frankly almost never interact
@@purpleisdebeste Actually I'd argue that Fred and Shaggy actually do have a contrasting dynamic. Fred in driven, and brave while shaggy is a coward. It's often shaggy who's the one actively discouraging the plan as laid out by Fread.
@@lincolnjohn8227 Yeah but the issue is that’s also the contracting dynamic between shaggy/Scooby and literally everyone else, including temporary party members
Velma is Fred’s lancer and I’m kind of salty they didn’t realize that bc I’m petty 💅
Regarding Bakugo and Todoroki, there’s a scene in the light novels (which are written by a different author but Horikoshi has stated that they’re basically 100% in character) that I think sums up the differences in their respective relationships with Midoriya pretty perfectly!
Basically, the Class 1-A boys are having a very intense pillow fight against the Class 1-B boys (long story) and there are two different moments where Midoriya gets distracted and starts muttering.
The first time it happens, Bakugo yells at him to shut up and chucks a pillow at him (to which he responds “Kacchan, I’m on your team!”).
The second time, Todoroki intercepts a pillow that would have hit Midoriya and reminds him, much more gently, to focus.
Like, it’s such a small thing, but I think it sums up the difference in their dynamics pretty well!
Also, to any BNHA fans who haven’t read the light novels: I highly recommend them, they are pure serotonin
Truth
Not seen much of MHA, but that sounds like it tracks
Oh hey nice to encounter you again.
Haven’t read the light novels personally but I might check them out after reading this comment!
@@galaxystudios370 hello again!
You absolutely should check out the light novels, they’re very fun to read!
A few other highlights include a chapter of Todoroki visiting his mom, That One Time Class 1-A Thought The Dorm Was Haunted, and Eri being the cutest thing in existence forever!
(And if you, like me, happen to be part of the Alphabet Mafia, plenty of subtext to read into!)
But I like pure serotonin
Pikachu is totally the Lancer. From Indio- Orange Islands:
1- Episode 1 and 2 solidified their differences yet trust in each other
2- Remember how they defeated Brock? It took teamwork, and a willingness to try new things at Pikachu's physical expense
3- Pikachu would be the one talking with the new Pokémon, from Charmander to Butterfree to dealing with Haunter's antics to Mewtwo.
3.5- Pikachu's tears. Misty couldn't have brought Ash back.
4- Pikachu would get them in and out of trouble, sleuthing things up, just as much of a character as the humans.
5- Conflicts off the top of my head:
-Not evolving to defeat Raichu/ Lt. Surge
St. Anne and the Island arc where he led the Pokémon as the de facto leader as Ashe's main
-Saffron City/ Lavender Town arc
-Interactions with Gary, let alone Team Rocket, showing both unification against them but laughing at truths
-Along the same vein, anytime Misty or Brock would say something insulting about Ash, Pikachu would either rub salt in the wound or defend Ash (including Ash's mom calling and underwear comments)
-Trying to talk down Charizard, to flat out zapping him a couple times
-Pikachu's Goodbye, the whole episode
-Anytime Pikachu refused to do something. It happened a lot, you all know it, I just can't remember specifics right now. I want to say Celedon City with the Women's Only gym, refusing to fight Misty, some of the more dumb ideas they had...
-Pikachu takes responsibility where Ash doesn't. From Togepi to foraging to proactively finding wild Pokémon, Pikachu acts as Ash's extension despite the conflicts. Remember the Eevee Brothers? Everything emotional with Richie and the Pokémon League? Getting all the attention from Mom? Helping Lapras trust? Pikachu leads the group while Ash's belly is the excuse.
I feel Charizard was to OG lancer in Ash's team. Though this train of thought made me realise Ash's team (and everyone's for that matter) are 5(or 6)-man-bands. I feel pikachu has a hybrid protag-lancer role based on its relationship with Ash bc amongst the team, pikachu is leader but in Ash's story, pikachu is Ash's sentient weapon/right-hand man. Oh and also Bulbasaur is the consistent heart that has it being the leader of Ash's "PC" pokemon.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 why here why are you botting here leave!
Most of those traits aren't lander traits, OP. Half of those slot into "big guy" characters more than lancers. Meanwhile, Misty actively has differences. She doesn't make friends as easily, nor is she as quick to bond with Pokemon. She IS actively a gym leader and actually competent with her Pokemon.
Between he and Pikachu, yes, I'd call pika the lancer. But in a group with Misty and Brock? The pokemon are a part of the trainer's character. Especially considering how different the two species are. 10 year olds can't summon wind or control water with just their minds, they have creatures to do that. Of course a lot of physical conflict would be solved by the pokemon. Conflicts that require stuff like engineering, cooking, clear conversations with humans- (holy heck this fog is thick as heck. I wish I could show you, but it's like you're literally in the void) anyways where was I? Oh yeah, ...clear conversations with humans, or gathering small pokemon around you and hiding in a tree to keep them warm are reserved for the people of the pokemon world.
To sum it up: For Ash and Pikachu, Pikachu is the lancer. But for a group that includes the trainers, Pikachu is more a part of Ash the leader. You could argue that Pikachu is a powerhouse.
Heck, I'd argue BBC Watson was who carried the show, since we were there for Martin Freeman emoting at Sherlock's crazy and going between cool hero and hedgehog in distress.
Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch's chemistry was a core part of the illusion of the show being actually good.
At least in Mystery Inc. Daphne could be the lancer, she contrasts the personality and desires of Fred and is the person that actually challenges him to change and evaluate himself
Also she’s competent on purpose, which is another component of the lancer. When Fred’s not around, Daphne is easily the most qualified to start calling the shots
Someone called her the smart one while Velma is the powerhouse because she hits the problem with her *brain*
10:38 The problem with Frodo (in the movies) is that a movie isn't exactly the most ideal medium to properly convey Frodo's internal struggle, so his declining state can come off as kinda unjustified if you don't actively go out of your way to read between the lines.
The declining Frodo is a good way to explain hidden illnesses to those who aren't getting it, I think. Those who know him best can see the markers of pain and exhaustion, but everyone else just sees a grumpy hobbit
@@carliegriffiths6290
Never seen it compared to hidden illnesses before. That's quite an interesting take you have there.
It’s one of the biggest problems when adapting a book to a film. The internal struggle is hard to convey because you can’t be inside the character’s mind in films without dialogue.
@@edwinsolis5710
Oh for sure, I don't envy anyone tasked with making that translation.
Whenever people say Sam was the real hero, I just think of how offended Sam would be if he heard them disrespecting Frodo like that. Frodo carried a burden Sam will never fully comprehend, and it's a good thing he didn't because he got to actually just move on, start a family, and look after the Shire in Frodo's absence.
My biggest issue with Mabel being the lancer is she is more the heart of the group. I think Stan is more the Lancer of the group, though you could make the argument for Wendy.
Heart/Chic has very few functions besides being the emotionally stable force that grounds the team with morality and common sense. Firstly, common sense is obviously not on the menu. Secondly Mabel has shown to be incapable of empathizing with Dipper's issues many times. In fact, many episodes focuses on grounding her and allowing her to reduce her ignorance and broaden her perspective i.e. sock opera and the unicorn episode. Rather than dishing out emotional support and grounding, she is the recipient of such lessons. This is best highlighted with how she needed the emotional pep talk from Dipper in the finale when that is textbook "Heart" behavior. Lancer feels more appropriate since she contrasts Dipper anyways
@@yiklongtay6029 Heart fits wendy way more than Mabel
Soos is clearly the heart
@@moothecow6908 He fits more the big guy
@@xolotltolox7626 I feel Wendy is the Big Guy while Soos is the heart. Basing my opinion on Red's Big Guy episode, Big Guys are capable of boosting the team's combat power but stays away from any of the key plot-relevant fights so the Leader can take lead. Like Hulk fighting countless aliens in the background while Iron Man is responsible for the nuke in Avengers 1.
Wendy destroys mooks easily in team fights but always leave the key moments for Dipper
Kuwabara was awesome. Even when he was kidnapped, he had a dimension-cutting sword that was the only thing the bad guys needed and as such he was the only reason they were there. Also, whenever the love interest (Yukina) was involved Kuwabara was pretty much unstoppable.
Probably one of the first characters I hated and then came to love as he developed as a kid. Unlike say, Vegeta, Kuwabara isn't a badass in his intro, so there's nothing but this punk at first.
Kuwabara didn't make it higher on this list as a lancer because he's simply too nuanced to fit a single trope. Also, for what jokes one might make about how his sword was just a tiny bit more powerful after its upgrade, do pay attention to when Kuwabara, Hiei, and Kurama are fighting Sensui. Sensui is shrugging off Hiei's and Kurama's attacks, but Kuwabara ... ? Sensui is careful to DODGE every attack. He knows that sword would be lethal in its current form; he may toy with Hiei and Kurama, but he's taking Kuwabara deadly seriously.
@@kingbeauregard the "sacrifice play" to Toguro is what makes him A tier for me.
@Ricardo Urteaga Burneo Sensui knew exactly how to play them. I don't know if it's that the boys are stupid / predictable or Sensui is just that good at planning.
I honestly feel after he got that last power up they had to remove him from the last season cause he would just be cutting black wholes on people . Honestly i could see him do some crazy shit whit that technique.
I'm honestly shocked that Vegeta wasn't brought up way sooner, when Red was like "we all know who this is gonna be" at the start I thought "Vegeta?"
I've never even watched Dragon Ball
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
@@jamesmayle3787 why are you here?
@@dorktriogamer2865 bot
@@jamesmayle3787 what does this have to do with Vegeta
@@illegalmemedealer3549 well, in heaven you get a bunch of cool abilities. Wouldn’t you like to use ki energy and fly? You could be vegeta in your very own personal play though of dbz. Wouldn’t you like that?
Red's enthusiasm for Knuckles is the most wholesome thing.
I feel I need to jump to Capt. Kirk's defense a bit here. Kirk gets a bad rap in pop culture and his negative traits have been exaggerated over the years. The Chris Pine version of the character is a somewhat flanderized version whereas if you watch the original series Kirk is actually way more competent than he is given credit for. Sometimes hot headed sure, but far from the sort of Zap Branigan version of him that lives in a lot of people's minds
Yeah, I think that's partly because the film versions of Kirk are more Zapp, and that's what most people know. The TOS Kirk is actually quite sensible, but not everyone watches that.
Roddenberry's vision for Kirk was that he was equally scholarly and action-oriented; one might recall that upper classmen at Starfleet Academy used to torment him for his studiousness. I think the problem with OG Kirk is ultimately that he was a generic Western lead without much of any character traits outside of Equal To Whatever Task You Put In Front Of Him.
Kirk was surprisingly more levelheaded than I thought he would be. The guy is charismatic and pensive, you could realistically understand why Spock would be friends with him.
Kirk's like Superman... There is the Deep well developed character over The original series and Movies... and then there's the Version EVERYBODY "knows"
Chris Pine's Kirk was closer to Homer Simpson (given command of a nuclear submarine on his first day aboard) than to the traditional Kirk, who was given a cutting edge warship in his early 40s after working his way up from the bottom...
My favorite thing about the turtles is that while Mikey and Donnie both have pretty set in stone roles across their adaptations, Leo and Raph are always filling multiple roles that kinda cross over with each other. You've got Mikey as the Heart and Donnie as the Smart Guy, but then you have Leo, who is both a Leader archetype with a lot of Lancer traits (constant disagreement with the group, etc. Plus the entire character conflict between him and raph in the TMNT movie is because he ran off on his own). Then, there's Raph. Who is sometimes the Leader, ALWAYS a Lancer, and also usually the Big Guy. It just creates a lot of fun energy amongst the group.
In Star wars, I kinda see Han as Leia's lancer more than anything. Luke is the plot device with heart
Luke spends so much of the trilogy functionally on his own, it’s hard to have character dynamics with the others. Rey has a similar situation, both spend time with mentors, enemies and side characters, there’s not much time to have lancer relationships develop.
@@richardbourton4523 absolutely! For the most personable one there, he sure doesn't get much of a chance to make friends!
I think Han was kind of Luke's lancer in ANH, but not at all in the other films.
Roy and Riza will forever be my favourite leader/lancer dynamic
Shadow as villain protagonist is kind of a bad take. His game, as hilarious bad as it is, does have a canon ending where he saves the earth, finds out he is the true shadow and decides the past doesn't matter so he will keep moving forward and do the right thing, he has been firmly in good guy status, though he has become more of an asshat lately due to Sega mandates. He is definitely a Lancer to sonic specially in 06 and the comics(both archie and IDW), he is dark and confident but unlike sonic he will do whatever it takes and keep fighting for what he thinks is good.
Nothing shows this better than the sonic universe comics post genesis wave. Which i think Red should read because they heavily feature our boy knuckles. He even fights Shadow on equal footing and its pure awesome, just a joy of two lancers throwing hands.
I still would not call Knuckles a lancer, if bucky barnes loses lancer status when his interesting brainwashed arc ends then Knuckles loses lancer status when his "im too stupid to think for a second" status ends, hes CLEARLY the powerhouse how is that not his default status?
@@fucin His status as a Lancer in the games should be stripped, but in the comics(Both IDW and Archie) and Sonic X are still firmly mantained. And i think that's where Red was coming from mostly, the IDW comics.
@@soneca_br except she discounted Shadow as a lancer because of a single game appearance
even still theres the treasure team tango comics where Shadow is a lancer to both Blaze and then Rouge
@@fucin IDW shadow really doesn't do much Lancer stuff. He is just kind of a dick
@@fucin The "Knuckles is an idiot" thing is more a result of recent bad writing than a trait the character has always had. In Sonic X he was more of a hotheaded and sarcastic loner type who got wrapped up in the Sonic crew's heroics due to the Master Emerald usually being involved/in danger somehow. He pretty much only went with them in Season 3 because Tails took the liberty of using the Master Emerald as his ship's power source, so Knuckles pretty much had to come along.
He was a little more gullible than the rest, but not a complete idiot.
It would've been funny if a Watson interpretation pretended to learn fighting from Holms, only to smash cut to Watson effortlessly holding Holms in an armlock.
I like this line from Dr. Strange’s Wong when Strange can’t be bothered to address some muggles trying to give him a hard time. Wong is all like “In many ways, he is my master, but in other ways, I am his.” And gets into a kung fu pose. Cue royal ass-kicking.
While Kai from Ninjago may not be defined by the lancer role in most of the show, he does have a very textbook lancer moment in season 1, when he thinks he's going to be the all-powerful green ninja and the leader up until he "discovers his full potential" by realizing his job is to protect the actual green ninja. Plus, he's red and fire-themed.
Isn’t Kai the main character? He was in the original miniseries about needing to save nia from garmadon
@@JaelinBezel He was, but his role changed as new characters were introduced.
Bad Boi Indigo is the lancer.
Lancers are (almost) always bad bois.
Yes, I know Red is a better fit colour-wise, but I stand by Indigo.
Unfortunately, as their editor, Indigo is the Smart Guy of the group. Blue is Leader while Red is Lancer, ironic from the channel's beginnings, Cyan is the Heart, they are currently lacking a Big Guy.
@@justinalicea1590 they have a cat, the cat is a better distraction than a big guy in many cases.
@@justinalicea1590 Cleo
Is blue the leader? I think it's Red right?
Blue keeps red in check, otherwise chaos rules ;)
Huh i always assumed Lancers we're named for Lancelot. Go figure it was ACTUAL Lancers
Ngl I always figured they were named after lance from voltron
I feel like with Zoro there was an overlooked aspect where he does do the most Lancer-y thing out of the crew. Spoilers for Water 7: Usopp leaves the crew and wants to be let back in at the end of the arc. However in one key scene, Zoro insists that Luffy wait until Usopp apologizes before he can return, stating that as the captain he cannot be so flippantly disrespected and let the offender get away with it. Zoro insists to the point where HE will leave the crew if Luffy doesn't follow through with demanding the apology from Usopp.
No one else really has a scene like that with Luffy and so I think it's fair to call Zoro more of a Lancer than Nami since she falls more squarely into the Smart Guy category and if Luffy is the leader than Usopp is for sure the heart. Sanji basically rotates between big guy and smart guy depending on what the story calls for.
Imho Zoro is absolutely the Lancer and when the big three (Luffy, Zoro and Sanji) are working together Sanji is clearly the Smart Guy.
Definitely, though Law kind of takes the role more after the time skip. Kid is more of a foil/rival to Liffy.
@@ew275x kind of? I feel like Law has the zuko problem where he's not around enough to really make an effect, but I can see it.
I agree! Luffy is ideology or instinct driven so a lot of the time zoro calls shots and acts as his straight man!
I remember in Next Mutation Raph had his own motorcycle separate from the jeep the other turtles drove around in (yes, really) just so he could angrily storm off on it. It even had its own garage door that lead out of the sewer. And every time he quit the team or snuck off I think they used the same footage. It was hilarious.
Raph is the Lancer to end all Lancers
2:20:06 I wholeheartedly agree. I love Kevin and Gwen's relationship. Its one of the few teenage ships that I felt was well-written and had real chemistry. They had their ups and downs, communicated with one another (for the most part) and above all respected each other. Definitely one of my favorite ships in animation.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
If we've doing Sonic-DragonBall parallels (and why wouldn't we?); Knuckles is much more a Piccolo then a Vegeta.
Serious dude, early antagonist, gets over-Shadowed (sorry) by the following bad guy.
So when does Red get rewritten to be the Himbo of the group?
Red’s too smart for that
@@flamingpi2245 She DOES have the kindness and muscles for it though.
w h a t
@SpacedPanini See?
Rolling with Difficulty, when she plays Kyana
You picked the one specific character trope most likely to have a second place anxiety... and then ranked them. Why are you evil?!?!
Bucky isn't necessarily Steve's lancer in the MCU, he's more Sam Wilson's tbh.
I was looking for this comment. I guess they compared him to Steve because he knew Bucky first.
Exactly and that’s what I was saying
"You're not going to move your seat up, are you?"
"No"
That exchange alone makes Bucky an S tier Lancer for Sam.
Also, in the MCU he's not really a Lancer for Sam because he wants to be Captain America, but rather he's competing with him to be Steve's Best Friend
@@GwainTralos Exactly
yes!! been trying to find someone who said this! falcon and the winter soldier was peak lancer dynamic for sam and bucky! and that who i thought they were gonna talk about and then they said cap and i was like “but sam”
Wildcard Lancer: James the Red Engine from Thomas the Tank Engine. In the books and early show he's part of a trio with Gordon and Henry, but in the later show he shifts to being part of a trio with Thomas and Percy. In either case he thinks very highly of himself , and can get a bit put out when Sir Toppham Hatt picks someone else in the trio for an important job. And more importantly, he's red for all but one of his stories.
I wanted to mention this in the chat but on a different track; James is prime Lancer material for sure:
- easily the scrappiest of the tender engines (bar Donald & Douglas maybe?)
- not bring up his own faults
- sets himself up for pratfalls & gaffes many times 'coz he can't shut his trap when he needs to
Plus he's Lancer to SEVERAL other members of the fleet:
- more ego/self-interested than most (maybe Top 3 in the books, beat by Spencer, maybe Gordon & early/prickly Thomas in the TVS)
- not the strongest (physical or otherwise) but still tries to punch above his weight
But I'd go one step further: Thomas is also a lancer - paradoxically more so than most, which makes his being chosen to be the TVS titular focus character all the more interesting across the franchise:
- Thomas is Lancer/Foil to Gordon because they have important jobs (Gordon starts as the top link engine & pompous while Thomas starts as a cheeky shunter), their parallels & trials humble the two till they form their alliance in Down The Mine)
- Thomas is amicable with Edward (helping Edward as both prove themselves as reliable main line/passenger engines after Trouble in The Shed)
- Toby's wise(acre?), Thomas is a wise-ass
- Thomas is more prone to pricklyness than Percy, while Percy is closer to the conventional focus character/audience surrogate yet has less ego than Thomas (they still butt heads at times)
- while Thomas & James don't talk much after Breakdown Train in the books, they started getting put into stories as Foils/Lancers to each other from S3 onward (especially after Mutton retired in S7) by playing up their similarities
- perhaps Thomas can also be seen as a Lancer to Duck, Ryan & Arthur (as they all run branch lines but Thomas is more Red Oni to their respective Blue Oni)
Sorry it took so long to finish that, just thoughts I had
Obsessed with the Thomas the Tank Engine dissection; I loved that show as a kid! James is an S Tier Lancer for sure.
@@jaredhebert942 Jesus you put more thought into that one post than I've put into Thomas the Tank Engine my entire life
@@nihilasta2661 it's a very overlooked series because the last couple owners have aimed Thomas mainly at toddlers & infants, rather than the all-ages approach of the Awdry Family; the show's available in lots of places (official or fan uploads) and the Railway Series books are well-written with gorgeous artwork - highly recommend it! (:
@@jaredhebert942 I'm pretty sure I still have some of the books at home.....when I eventually finish everything else I'm reading I'll reread them. If I remember by that point 😅
OSP agreed that the frustrating diva that is Sasuke Uchiha is a bad/boring character. THE VINDICATION!!!
Glad i’m not alone in my hatred for Sasuke
I spent so much if Naruto wondering why we haven't stopped caring about the toxic friend yet. (He literally never acted like a friend or romantically interested in Sakura)
The crux was after he learned the full truth about his brother and still kept being an edgy contrairian. (His entire motivation was to avenge his clan, he later learns his clan was wring and his brother was a hero, and after losing all his original motivation made 0 changes to his gameplan, i guess he decided to bandwagon wanting to be hokage but that felt like something out of left field)
I think Shippuden made him pretty miserable, like in first part he's pretty ok. He was edgy but kinda cared for others till itachi came bitch slapped the shit out a him and when he realized that naruto has better moves than him.
But that's just my two cents
In my opinion, Sasuke is one of the most interesting characters in the show. I love his progression from having a singular goal that he would sacrifice anything for, to gradually showing more of his true colors by protecting his comrades, and realizing that his partners’ lives are more important than immediate victory. What I think is fantastic, is that every time Sasuke shows vulnerability, he’s reminded by his brother both verbally and through mental-torture that he lacks enough hate. Sasuke is constantly being pulled between light and dark throughout all of Naruto & Shippuden. He was so committed to following what he believed to be Itachi’s will, that he only succumbed to Naruto’s way after it was clear his goal was both unattainable, and that even after everything that had happened, his old friends still love him unconditionally.
@@maazbinaziz3676 shippuden in general is just a lot worse imo. I feel like all characters got a lot blander, along with their design. The fights also got a lot less creative, the only exeption being my boy shikamaru.
I needed to put this in regarding Samwise because I had to convince a co-worker that Sam wasn’t in LOVE with Frodo. This doesn’t come out in the films as much as the books because of the time crunch the movies had to do. Frodo took over management of Bag End and the ring a long time before the quest took off and was significantly older than Sam. When Gaffer Gamgee retired due to arthritis, Sam took over his position (pretty much as a teenager) and grew through his more formative years with Frodo in a very avuncular role - almost a second father figure. Sam truly loved Frodo but it was a family love, not romantic.
Word to that, but even in the movie it can be seen as a brotherly relationship where they don't have a homophobic aversion to touch. That was actually something Ian McKellen coached them on, which strikes me as he would be the one most aware of homophobic issues.
@@TheMimiSard In the book they were even more open to physical demonstrations of affection. When Sam found Frodo stung by Shelob, he held Frodo and wept. When he found Frodo in the dark tower, Sam held Frodo and kissed his unconscious face. They didn’t go that far in the movie but I loved that they weren’t afraid of showing physical affection. It was wonderful. I even understand how the movies needed to cut out a lot of the time but it did lose some of Frodo’s character as a man that was actually 50 years old. That made him less of a middle-aged man in hobbit years but still a full 12 years older than Sam, who was still young and had a full life ahead of him.
Frodo and Sam got me to stop saying "no homo" after everything. They seemed to be having more fun and less anxiety than me, in spite of the Ring.
Older men can’t be gay with younger men? Sam and Frodo were very much written to be reflective of British officer/batmen relationship… but they are VERY much evocative of Achilles/Patroclus. And all the characters modeled on their dynamic. How you could say otherwise when Tolkien was such an ardent Classicist idk.
People see the relationship as gay for a reason. But it’s also… It not strictly text either. Hence the endless discussion
@@DOOMsword7 Oh, I agree, and I am sure there was an element of the officer/batmen relationship intended given Tolkien's background. I would disagree however, that their relationship was anything like Achilles & Patroclus because the text of the Iliad (at least the translation that I read) was so explicit. They left no doubt about their relationship. Frodo and Sam is still a discussion to be had about the movie version. I don’t mean to ‘no homo’ the storyline (a term I just learned) but I don’t see that in Tolkien's story. Love is love but it doesn’t have to be sexual. The idea that men cant love each other very deeply without being gay seems an unfair limitation to me. I also agree that older and younger men can be a lovely coupling. My only regret about the movie making Frodo so young for the journey rather than the 50-year-old hobbit that he was, was the loss to Frodo’s character, not his relationship with Sam.
43:50 if fred's the leader, then it's shaggy, because they contrast each other. Fred is confident, self-assured, and smart, whereas Shaggy is easily scared, distracable, kinda gullible, and not very smart. not to mention the contrast in their visual design, with Fred being more top heavy and having a broad chest and Shaggy being thin and slouching. Plus, whenever Fred says they should split up an look for clues, Shaggy (and Scooby) always protest, he pushes back against Fred. And in some cases, the time taken for the gang to convince Shaggy and Scooby to look for clues tips an important domino for the plot of the rest of the episode. That push back isn't just a silly staple of "let's split up" "no way man" "have some scooby snacks" "okay fine", sometimes its pretty integral to the episode.
obviously, Velma is the brain, that's like her entire character, but then what does that make Daphne?
Well, I think she actually serves a double role. She is *also* the brain, and there's multiple instances of her figuring stuff out before Velma does, but I also recall times where she's slapped a monster with a handbag or a nearby object, so she's also the big guy sometimes. Daphne is a much more flexible character than the rest of the crew, and it serves to spread out the work, so the characters don't always feel like copy-pastes of the five-man-band.
If perhaps Velma's been putting in a lot of work providing logic to the situation, whether or not the logic works out, Daphne can step in and apply some intuition or be more practical, she has what I would almost describe as street-smarts. So she can give Velma a break and be smart herself.
It's a big deal having the smart character be a girl, but its an even bigger deal to have the only 2 main cast female characters both be very intelligent in different ways and play off each other a lot! And on top of all that! One of them is very nerdy and a touch shy, while the other is fashionable and outgoing, and they're both smart, self-reliant, and awesome.
I just... like scooby doo a lot
Okay so first off massive props and kudos to you for giving a great argument for shaggy and Fred being foils to each other, I honestly thought it was impossible but this is a really good analysis (though I might object to calling Fred smart). That said, one small note, Daphne isn’t the smart guy just because she is smart sometimes. That just makes her a well rounded human. I think Daphne is probably the most competent member of mystery Inc so it makes sense she has brains, but Velma is the one who has “smart” as a personality trait. Anyway yeah good analysis especially Daphne as big Guy, really good job on this!
@@purpleisdebeste yeah, I was thinking that about Fred a bit, and Shaggy isn’t always necessarily dumb either. It’s more about the confident vs. scaredy-cat dynamic.
And yeah that’s true about Daphne, she is genuinely the most competent and well rounded of the bunch, but I think sometimes Velma’s intelligence is very much book-smarts, which in certain situations is kinda her downfall!
But yeah, I thought Daphne’s cleverness and quick-thinking slotted her at least partway into be the smart guy when Velma occasionally takes a backseat
@@jasperdracona I think if Velma gets damselled (which I don’t think ever happens in Scooby Doo history) then Daphne temporarily fills the role of the smart guy. She’s definitely the smart guy in 13 ghosts which doesn’t have Velma (unless you count Vincent van Ghoul but he’s more of a 6th ranger since he’s usually staying behind while The Gangtm handle things)
Who hopes OSP plays Monster Prom in the future, so we can see Red simp over the werewolf athlete Himbo, Indigo trying to out sass the sexy Medusa crime boss, and Blue agreeing with the hipster vampire about how Swedish poetry laid a new foundation for heavy metal
Yes would love to see this!
I don’t know if the kind of comedy the osp crew likes is the kind of jokes Monster Prom makes. I like monster prom but I don’t know if it is their vibe.
Im sorry WHAT
@@mc_ace8075 Monster Prom has all kinds of comedy and drama, I’m sure they could find something funny
@@anthonykafka42 yes, all that stuff is in the game
I recommend Rise of the TMNT movie. It’s kinda interesting how Raph is actually the leader and LEO is more of the Lancer.
I think that's what the team behind Rise was going for since Season 1; just have a lot of Turtles I just need to knuckle down & watch, any recommendations for essential episodes across the different shows?
Technically since there are only 4 ninja turtles, Raph pulls double duty as both the lancer and the powerhouse
@@jaredhebert942 you honestly don’t need to know any episodes for the movie. It was very much made in mind for first time watchers. As for the show, the 20min episodes are the most impt for continuity sake.
I recommend to watch the movie first as a litmus test to see if rise is for you
@@jessefanshaw8948 I saw a few episodes as Season 1 was debuting, but the early going for Splinter turned me off (I know he gets better); hope to watch at some point
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Kuwabara was the Heart of the group. Like hardcore. He’s the guy who was willing to die to save the three mind controlled humans purely by trying to appeal to their better nature. He saves Seaman by just being a nice guy and a friend. He’s literally the only one to get power boosts for feeling emotional connections with the victims of the person he’s fighting.
Yeah, Hei is the lancer.
I mean, by virtue of the format of their group, there can be multiple role assignments for each individual. That said, for much of the show, Yusuke was the leader, Hiei was the big guy/powerhouse while also somewhat pulling duty as Yusuke's lancer from a Demon perspective, Kurama was always the Smart Guy, but was also a powerhouse on occasion, and Kuwabara acted as the (sometimes bleeding) Heart of the group while being Yusuke's Human lancer at the same time.
The way I see it, Kuwabara always represented how Yusuke grounded himself with the people around him. Kuwabara acted as contrast because Yusuke tends to somewhat hide his emotions while Kuwabara tends to show his to the world regularly, and at the same time while Yusuke was the instinctual fighter that often focused on a single aspect of things, Kuwabara was a more intelligent fighter who sometimes let his emotions get the better of him during combat, for good or ill. This ends up rubbing off on both, however, with Yusuke opening up more while Kuwabara better learns to direct his emotions, which also enhances their combat styles.
As for Hiei, his point of contrast is in the two's pursuit of strength and their reasons for doing so. Yusuke ends up pursuing strength more to be able to help others than for his own ends, whereas Hiei first gave up his strength in order to find both his jewel and his sister and then worked hard to get it back and exceed his original power originally for entirely personal reasons. However, as the two interacted and rubbed off on one another, Hiei softened slightly and came around to Yusuke's line of original thinking, while Yusuke ended up indirectly seeing the logic behind Hiei's original noticing that power alone may not help you find what truly matters to you (even though this is more retrospective of a take, given Yusuke likely doesn't learn the truth about Hiei's past the same way we, the readers/viewers do and can be more said to find that perspective on his own).
In regards to Sasuke, a LOT of his stuff is later in the story, after the heel turn, he's a constant contrast to Naruto in the entire second half, the the last few episodes he basically takes a chill pill and mellows out, in Boruto he even goes full on piccolo
The last Naruto Sasuke fight Sasuke knows he's not nearly as strong as Naruto the entire time, he's just trying to get Naruto to stop trying to save him, it's hilarious. But like I said, after that dude mellows, good on him for getting the angst out of his system
Now rank lancers by the amount of romantic tension with their lancee.
Zuko samwise Watson: s
I'm pretty surprised that I didn't hear any mention of Brooklyn from Gargoyles. That dynamic is mostly apparent in a few episodes, but throughout the series he functions as an alternate role model to his peers when Goliath isn't immediately present.
When Goliath isn't around, Broadway and Lexington look up to Brooklyn, which I'd an interesting facet of the Lancer role occasionally stepping awkwardly into leadership.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Yuuus
Red: you get half points for convincing me to watch ReBoot all the way through. I watched bits and pieces as a kid, but I do not do serial release stuff well - even books I tend to lose track of mid-series if they're still coming out and those are often years between them, so I never watched the show all the way through. Then I came across OSP and you were pointing out how amazing it is and I was like "well, maybe it's not just a dumb kids show I enjoyed as a dumb kid." And it was, indeed, not just a dumb kids show. It was quite excellent.
I think Bucky isn't the greatest example of a Lancer when it comes to Steve Captain America
But he does seem to get more Lancer points when paired with Sam Captain America
Elementary is probably my favorite show of all time and I get so much life from hearing you guys talk about it, because hopefully that means More People Will Watch It. Comments section, please watch Elementary; it's the most aromantic piece of media I've ever encountered and I will be chasing the high from the Sherlock and Joan relationship for decades. At points it makes some extremely 2012 decisions but I have never, NEVER seen a platonic relationship portrayed SO well.
Wait wait wait why didn’t you talk about how Bucky is the Lancer to Falcon as they work as a better hero lancer Dynamic as falcon is pretty much the Goku to Bucky’s Vegeta
Every time Red nerds out about ReBoot, I can feel my lonely soul heal just a bit…
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Hot take but I think Midoriya is more of a lancer to Todoroki, especially looking at the early tournament arc and their fight where Midoriya says "Come on, are you even trying you haven't hurt me this entire fight!" while most of his fingers are broken from overusing his ability and just the general nature of Midoriya constantly breaking rules and bringing other people into his shenanigans.
for bleach I'd say it's a lancer-relay race where each arc passes lancer duties to a new person. it starts Rukia until uryu is introduced then it's uryu until renji then renji until the visoreds pop up at which point it devolves into a game of who's the lancer between shinji, rukia/renji/hitsugaya, and hollow ichigo, and then at the end Uryu grabs the lancer stick back and takes off running with the I'm evil now, sike, I infiltrated the villains, and need to handle this all on my own
I'm glad you did miles edgeworth because you were The catalyst that got me into ace attorney. it's been over a month since the rewatch where i actually paid attention for that bit and the hyperfixation is not going away
I LOVE Frodo, but he has a massive martyr complex. Sam, on the other hand, has hope til the end he and Frodo will make it back. I think that’s where the lancer-ness comes in and why Frodo appears unloyal - Frodo is convinced (for good reason) he’s going to his death with the ring and doesn’t want anyone else to die. Sam is convinced they’ll get there and make it back. Frodo doesn’t want anyone else to come cause he genuinely believes it’ll lead to their death, while Sam wants to come to make sure he’s there to help keep Frodo alive. They’re perfect foils
Ugh, Batman and Superman as enemies. This list has it right, Batman and Superman are buds who respect each other. It fit Frank Miller's purposes to write them as ideologically incompatible in "The Dark Knight Returns", and unfortunately people have come to take that as the norm. In reality, you've got a detective and a reporter who should very quickly be able to suss out each other's motives, and realize they vary at most in style.
They actually are pretty much ideologically identical
Both:
No killing, ever
The strong protect the weak
Be a shining example to those around you
Try to do it alone when you can to avoid hurting others
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I do enjoy the random "Red as Solid Snake" voice she throws out every now and then
If you go by 5 man band standards, Todoroki is the powerhouse. So that makes Bakugo definitely the Lancer.
If it makes you feel any better Red, you have gotten me to start rewatching Reboot for the first time in over 20 years.
11:00 in, I daresay Frodo is Sam’s lancer. He’s the one always brooding and going “you’re not better then me!” (purely due to the ring’s influence, but still.) It’s actually an interesting frame to try to read the books from, might get me past the Emyn Muil next read through.
21:40 y’all are totally underselling Inigo and Wesley’s interactions post-Pit of Despair. Between the snark while puppeting a still mostly dead Wesley, and their interactions around the topic/encounter with the Six-Fingered Man, Inigo and Wesley absolutely further inform us each other’s characters quite handily. Especially 6-fingers, their attitude towards him foils each other and also supports each other.
Also, disappointed in chat for not bringing any of the good Digimon lancers: Matt, Rika, or even Koichi.
I'm going to agree Shaggy is the Lancer for the Scooby-verse. He foils the most important trait of the gang, namely his cowardice. Even Scooby isn't really a coward, he just plays off of Shaggy when they're together because he's Shaggy's dog.
I think they should do a nemesis tier list.
UPDATE: We need Indigo to lead a Detail Diatribe about SOMETHING Sonic-related.
Here, Here!
I love how the only thing the Ring can think to tempt Sam with is making him the greatest gardener in the world (something he arguably becomes anyway at the end).
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord
@@jamesmayle3787 what’s this got to do with Sam Gamgee
As I see it, Knuckles is a CONTRAST to Sonic, wheras Shadow is sort of twisted execution of the same character themes and traits. Knuckles is physically powerful vs Sonic's speed, Red vs Sonic's blue, introspective and unsure of his own identity and purpose vs Sonic's carefree attitude, is an Echidna vs Sonic's Hedgehog, and so on. Shadow, on the other hand, shares many of Sonic's traits, but with a twist: Not just the speed (but with his glider boots) and being a hedgehog (but curved spines), but even his personality: like Sonic, Shadow is cocky, overdramatic, pursues what he thinks is right against all odds, and loves one-liners. But Sonic does that with a radical 80's/early 90s 'tude, vs Shadow's late 90's/00's aloof badboy notion of coolness... at least in SA2.
After SA2, especially in his eponymous game, he just becomes super edgy and Sonic's Vegeta. But in SA2's, he's much more of a twist on the same concept and characteristics, which is intentional considering that his name early in development, Terios, allegedly (it sounds like it could be BS but I don't know greek) means mirror or to grant wishes (which is also a big thing in his arc in SA2: granting Maria's wishes). And it makes sense, because Metal Sonic already exists as an actual dark/evil Sonic, where he's a more fundamental contrast or nullification of Sonic's traits then even Knuckles: Rather then being a different spikey mammal, he's a machine, and instead of having another strong personality, he has none.
Holy sh*t, someone who actually understand Shadow's character
Given what a Lancer traditionally is they're supposed to contrast, which Knuckles does and thus is a Lancer to Sonic. I never got why some people thought Shadow was since it makes zero sense you you illustrate WHY he makes no sense as a Lancer. He's a foil but not a Lancer.
@@Arcanua it depends on your definition of a Lancer.
Shadow does contrast Sonic too, hence his name. Its not a binary issue and Sonic has had more than one Lancer even beyond Knuckles and Shadow, they're just the most well known
His characterisation in 06 is the best part of the game and the best cutscene also involves him
"If the World decides to be my enemie I will fight as I always do"
Takes of the inhibiter rings and starts to go Musou on the Mephelis clonearmy and the Mysic makes it pitch perfect
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Batman vs TMNT movie on here already, but it is a very interesting case study for how the different team members of the Batfamily and the Turtles interact with each other, and how different combinations of them work well together or clash. Batman and Leo get paired up a lot seeing as both are leaders (Batman also has a great mentor relationship with him), but he also has some interesting interactions with Raph - lampshading that they're both brooding loners who nevertheless need their families to keep them grounded - and Mikey, who is basically the complete tonal opposite of him. We also get Donnie and Batgirl teaming up to be nerds together, Raph and Mikey paired with Damian Wayne (one of the few times I find him tolerable), as well as some cool contrast between the villains, with Shredder and the Foot Clan in an uneasy alliance with Ra's Al-Ghul and getting to see Joker and the Arkham inmates get mutated into different animal hybrids. Easily one of my favourite Batman things of the last decade.
Thing about piccolo as lancer - he serves as a foil for Goku in that he actually parents his kid. :P
42:37 I think most of us here are agreeing that Scooby is the heart, and Velma is the smart guy.
Fred is most likely the leader, he is the one that calls the shots. And if he's not, Daphne is the leader.
That makes the lancer most likely Shaggy, Daphne, or both. No reason it can't be both. Get a nice Lancer Triangle going.
Shaggy is definitely the Big Guy. His charisma isn't, but he's always the signal that things are going to turn out okay.
Big Guy, not through feats of strength or fortitude, but feats of clown physics
Well there is the times when shaggy gets hypnotized(phantosaur movie) to be more confident as well as a few other times like in the live action movie where he got strong guy juice(scooby doo 2 monsters unleashed)
Fred as leader Daphne as lancer (and Shaggy as big guy) does make sense. (Yeah, being cowardly and arkward does work against Shaggy fulfilling the role but he and Scooby do fulfill it sometimes (such as when they are not afraid, Scooby has intimidated people by growling at times)).
100% agree with Samwise as an S tier. Sam got the girl, became mayor of his town, and got to go to Valinor. Absolute Chad.
I feel like Shaggy and Scooby both play the role of the heart, and Daphne, especially in iterations where she's more than just "the chick" is much more defined by her relation to Fred in a way a lancer would.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Hot take for the Scooby Gang
Leader: Scooby
Smart one: Velma
Heart: Daphne
Lancer: Shaggy
Big guy: Fred
Glimmer being the lancer makes so much sense yet she looks like the healer or the heart
I gotta say, I so appreciate it every time Red brings up Slayers. It was the first non- 4Kids anime I ever watched, introduced to it movie first by my brother, because that's what he had a hard copy of, before going on to get a hold of the series and OVAs. The jawdrop I went through when I realised Naga is actually Amelia's 'runaway' older sister... Anyway, literally any time you wanna talk about Slayers I'll be here cheering! Also Xellos turning up when Filia's around is the funniest thing, god, I need to find a copy of Slayers so I can rewatch it
Great video, though I disagree on the matter of Bleach; Uryu is the Lancer all the way
He's the one whose ideal are in the most opposition to Ichigo's and challenges his thought process the most along the way.
The fun point here is that he is the opposite to the typical by being the Blue to Ichigo's "Red", the Archer to his Swordsman
The fact you said you gave up after Aizen does explain this since it means you missed the TYBW arc which is where everything about their differences is really brought to a head.
Plus he’s the one who tries fighting ulquiorra when Ichigo is temporarily out of the fight
It wasn't very good, but god do I miss Bleach
Thank you for this, I came looking for someone who pointed this out so I wouldn't have to do it myself.
@@michi4066 Thousand year blood war arc is going to be amazing cause for all we know Kubo won't be constrained like he was in the manga
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I was POSITIVE this was about the Lancer class from Fate. Still worth watching.
Funny thing Todoroki has the set up for being a sasuke, the whole family issue and all, but bakugo is way closer of actualy stepping into that trap despite having literally no excuse at all
On DCAU Batman and Superman - I will *ever* delight in that one episode where Clark went down to Gotham to temp _as_ Batman while Bruce was either sick or stuck doing business in Metropolis. Dude absolutely *TERRIFIED* Bruce's rogue's gallery by using his super speed to be constantly behind them, and just suddenly *tanking* bullets. Batman's always been about evoking a supernatural force of justice to throw criminals off balance, and Clark accidentally did a *whole dang lot* to really shore up that reputation.
Bucky Barnes is not Steve Roger's lancer, he is Uncle Sam Wilson's lancer.
The Republic never made any laws about "War Crimes" so neither the Republic and Jedi nor the Confederacy of Independent Systems abide by any of the things we consider rules of "civilized" warfare.
I assume hiring and paying for an assassin to try to murder one of the republics senators would be extremely against any law of any law abiding society and that was before the war officially started. CIS was definitely breaking laws with that.
I was trying to remember if there were any other stories where the hero and the lancer get together. I am ashamed of how long it took me to realize that Annabeth is Percy’s lancer in the original series
Yugioh 5ds has no right being as good as it is. The fact that card games on motorcycles not only makes sense, but is built into the entire world, characters and plot is so dumb but so well written
And if we’re talking Lancers, there’s a very strong argument that Jack Atlas (the rival) is the easily the best in Yu-Gi-Oh!, and pretty solid in general
Yugioh has some solid lancers though, Chaz is surprising good as a foil
GX had a new concept as weird as card games on motorcycles every other episode.
Card games vs. a chimpanzee
Card games vs. a guy who makes everyone near him stoned
Card games vs. An amazon woman who turns out to be a tiger
Bakugo is the absolute best lancer in MHA! From the start he has all the ability and skill to be a hero, all he needs to learn is the spirit of heroism, whereas deku has all the spirit and needs ability and skill. Bakugo has also learned a lot of the lessons deku needs, like smiling in the face of danger, his is a smile of challenge more than hope, but he still smiles, while deku is panicking his way through every fight. Bakugo's character arc is realizing how deku is the ideal of heroism, and supporting that ideal, while deku's arc is realizing that ideal into the world.
Does Achilles count? He shows all the stages of a Lancer's life:
•Egg: Ship on its way to Troy
•Larval: Happy dude with girl, girl gets taken away triggering
•Pupal: Salty burrito cocoon. Friend dies resulting in final stage
•Adult: Human weedwacker of Death
If Achilles is the Lancer, does that make Agamemnon the Leader?
Y...yes?
I would argue Mabel for S tier. There is nothing Raphael or Samwise does that Mabel does not do. She supports her brother, she is a foil to her brother, she is a contrast to her brother and she fights her brother. She happily takes the lead and just as happily turn against him. There is no lancer more lancer than Mabel.
Also, she has a red sweater (at times).
"I've come to the conclusion that when I say 'you can ship 'em,' I mean 'they should be besties,' which is not what everybody else means by that, so that's fun"
*how dare you call me, a simple ace, out like this*
it was originally red's channel so blue is the lancer
Nope, 11th Podcast has them state that Blue is the Leader and Red is the Lancer.
Okay so obviously indigo is the lancer. I think red and cyan could both be the big Guy (martial arts and fencing respectively) but I know less about cyan so I’m gonna take what I can get w/ her. That leaves red as the leader/smart guy and blue as the leader/smart/heart. We have one left over so I’m gonna say give Cleo the Heart so blue can be smart guy and red can be leader (although ludohistory as smart guy also makes sense and I respect going cyan as heart red as big guy, blue as leader)
I cant believe they named a chart type after a delta rune character, thats pretty cool!
Wait does Lancer qualify as a Lancer ?
@@Snivy_1245 the way you phrase it makes it sound like the lancer class is made out of riders lmao
@@Snivy_1245 you could argue he is Susies Lancer in c1, but i think he is more of a secondary heart
In my opinion, Susie is the one who best fits the Lancer trope in the group. She spends most of Chapter 1 opposing Kris, who is controlled by the player not just in the meta way, but in-story. If you try to play the non-violent way in chapter 1, she's the one who defies what you want by attacking everyone, causing you to have to work around her by warning the enemies. But then by the time everyone is in the King's castle, she comes around and becomes easier to work with, she lets us tell her how to ACT. And at the end of the chapter, she and Kris end up becoming actual friends.
And in Chapter 2, Susie continues to be our Lancer, and she shows this off during the Sweet Cap'n Cakes boss, when she ends up changing the mechanics of the battle so that she and Ralsei no longer have to rely on Kris for them to be able to ACT, which makes things easier for the player to win battles peacefully.
So, at least in my opinion, Susie is a good example of the Lancer trope.
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
Indigo: I’m tryna head off any spams in the chat
Blue: I WILL SWING THE BAN HAMMER MYSELF!!!! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
I have to agree with Blue that Tony and Cap swapping stances is pretty earned over the course of several movies
Thank you for enlightening and entertaining me with your videos. I've never heard the term Lancer before and you all have artfully explained it.
I think Dante Bosco is a great Lancer actor in general because of Prince Zuko and Rufio in Hook opposing the late Robin Williams' Peter Pan/Peter Banning
Funny enough Admrial Zhao’s actor also once acted as Captain Hook in the 2003 Peter Pan movie adaptation.
@@brandonlyon730 THAT WAS JASON ISAACS?
33:07 that's a story bit that gets used in "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?" A Batman story by Neil Gaiman which presents multiple potential deaths of the Batman and different characterisations as told by his friends and enemies. Alfred's story shares some ideas with that concept and is possibly the best one there.
It's a really good story (as you'd expect from Neil Gaiman) that I'd strongly recommend.
Edit: I clearly need to watch ahead before commenting, this is exactly the story that Red mentions a few seconds later
The problem with One Piece here is that instead of a 5 man band it’s a 9 man band. There are different parts in the story where different crew members oppose Luffy and he learns from them differently. Nami in Arlong Park, Usopp in Water 7, Vivi in Alabasta, Sanji in Wholecake, Robin in Water 7, also Franky in Water 7 (it’s an intense period). Zoro is introduced with opposition but it’s gone once he becomes the secondary leader.
I would say there was a 5 man band as they were entering the grand line with the main issue actually being the big guy.
Luffy is the leader obviously, Nami was the smart guy because she tended to think things through more than the others before she acted, and Usopp was the heart because he hadn't yet developed his bag of tricks so he played a support roll mostly, but the issue comes from Zoro and Sanji. At his introduction Zoro was the lancer but Sanji started taking on some of the lancer characteristics as, including have some of those characteristics towards each other. with them also both kind of playing the role of Big Guy to a lesser extent but Zoro probably fitting that role better.
I like cap & tony switching sides is kind of a great idea, as the two are effected by eachothers ideology enough to make the conflict personal. It's so emotionally raw because we know both characters could be on the same side of this conflict because they were just a movie ago.
Gajeel wrecking the guild and him crucifying Levy and then going on to joining the guild and becoming a dedicated member and dating / marrying Levy later on, that was such a wild ride
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord
Like the idea of the leader and the lancer both being smart, strategic and cool headed but never being able to agree on their plans
Solo was a pretty good, fun movie, but I think it suffers from essentially being a feature-length version of the opening to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, wherein the young main character acquires everything iconic about their adult selves in a single weekend/afternoon (respectively).
Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. That’s an important key most miss. The Bible is truth. Jesus Christ is lord.
I would like to point out Bucky may be a much better Lancer to Captain America than he is to Captain America.
That is to say that Sam Wilson and Bucky have a much better protagonist/lancer relationship, with their primary differences relating to Bucky having internal angst over his past deeds versus Sam’s externally based angst over how he is perceived.
Y'know, so long as we're talking about Arcee (TFP) as a lancer, we should also talk about Wheeljack and (potentially?) Smokescreen as lancers. At some point, they both fit the trope really well, if not as more established lancers.
3:18:43 Red Starscream impression button, almost fell off my bed laughing. Also, TFP is amazing, and everyone should watch it.