Why Not Coaxial Warp Drive? (Star Trek Theory)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Let's look at another faster than light propulsion discovered by the crew of the USS Voyager in the Delta Quadrant, the Coaxial Warp Drive.
What is it? How could it work and why the the crew not use it to get home?
Half of these get answered, and by that I mean that each gets half and answer.
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Coaxial Warp Drive was made obsolete by HDMI Warp Drive.
A wormhole is a tunnell from point A to point B, inside the tunnell is usually foreign to the universe, with different rules governing time, space and dimensions. Folding space is bending the fabric of space and time (like a blanket) until the two points A and B come together momentarily as point C while they occupy the same space and time.
Don't forget about the Composite Drive and the Component Drive. They are still around. Coaxial Warp is only obsolete on the outer portions of the galaxy, though. It is still widely used to travel about 95% away from central base, but this is slowly being replaced by Fiber Drives.
@osp80 Ssssh! Nobody talks about s-video drives. They are like the Betamax shields, or the HD-DVD torpedoes. They had their strengths, but if the Klingon Empire won't use them, did they even really exist?
@osp80 You stand alone, my friend. The Apple star system got so burned by that drive that they immediately turned completely xenophobic and refused to adopt any other technology or share their own. You can't even repair your own ship, anymore. If it breaks down, you have to get towed to the nearest "Genius Planet", where you get endlessly ridiculed about how you "flew your ship incorrectly" while they "upgrade your software"
I hear the new galaxy class 10 ship have the 5 g drive system .
Probably the same reason they don't use thumb nail drives.
@YggdrasilAE What explodium? I thought they used all of it to make the Oberth class ships?
Another problem would probably be the hypothetical issue of two objects occupying the same space if it's used at the wrong place and wrong time (probability is very low, but it could happen). Also, when you scale a ship up in size, or any object, you run into the square-cubed law. An object twice the size of another object (double the scale, twice the height and twice the width for a rectangle or cube), will actually have 8 times the volume (so if you double the scale, if density remains the same (which for a ship is unlikely and has irregular density, but for ease of understanding work with constant density), you multiply the mass by 8). Exponentially more volume and mass have to be moved as you scale things up.
In Broad Therms, isn't the Iconian Gateway Technology Coaxial Warp, in a certain Nature?
Instantaneous Folding of space by portals... And they've shown to be able to accomodate things as large as an Obelisk or Herold Dreadnought, atleast in STO...
Those gates were also stationary, and connected to fixed points in space.
To use it on a big moving ship, going to a non-fixed location, or even unexplored. Man, the calculations would take up SO much computer power.
Look up the Fold-Space Drives from Dune, and you'll see why Folding space is not done lightly.
I mean, in Dune they basically had to use psychic mutants to pull it off reliably.
Iconian Gateways are more similar I'd say to Stargates; but instead of deassembling the traveler and reassembling them on the other side it's instead literally just opening a doorway you can walk through much like in the Portal game series, or in the case of STO... pilot a ship through.
@@austinmartin612 Nah, they're more like magic. They can send starships back and forth through time and space at a significant distance.
@@namyun2743 not through time, iconians actually can't time travel, it causes their physiology to break down
Conventional warp drive works by warping the space in relatively close proximity to the vessel. And even that level of warping was slowly breaking the fabric of space/time up along the more heavily traveled regions of space. Starfleet was frantically developing technology to MINIMIZE this damage. The coaxial warp reached out light years and warped space towards the vessel. I would imagine that a drive system like that would be many times more damaging to the warp and woof of space than conventional warp was.
I like the idea of it having cooldown and scaling issues that make it not worth pursuing for a larger vessel, so they ended up just keeping it on that one shuttle for specific missions. Shame they never demonstrated that though.
There is another, yes another, drive tech shown in ST-E, the one used by the Xindi. [The visual effect of the inside of a subspace vortex, a CGI effect depicted in "Countdown" and "Zero Hour", is similar to that of quantum slipstream drive seen in Star Trek: Voyager. In the final draft script of "Zero Hour", the effect was described as "a roiling channel of turbulent energy."] [Capable of transporting a vessel at a rate of about six light years per two minutes, the vortices were opened through the generation of a phase deflector pulse, using on-board generators, and were sustainable for hours at a time] Using the Xindi drive Voyager could have got back to the Alpha quadrant in about 380 hours, about 16 days.
The idea that it's best suited for TINY ships is a good justification. And yeah, "FORGET ABOUT THAT!" the oath of all TV writers.
Fits well with the fact that all space folding devices that were previously introduced in Star Trek were teleporters for (single) persons.
At short ranges and sizes the Coaxial warp field's distortions are small and easily controlled. As the size, and especially the length, of the field increases, the ability to compensate for these distortions becomes more difficult. At a certain point, the amount of time distortion detection takes exceeds the tolerance of the field to said distortions, in other words you run out of time to correct them, and the field destructively collapses. The collapse is destructive because the field is not spherically symmetric and thus during uncontrolled collapse, part of your ship is in normal space, and part of it is still in Warp. This issue is less of a problem with bubble shaped fields because they are shorter for a given size vessel, do not collapse destructively (usually), and are inherently more stable.
An easy way to ret-con the drive is to say that size of ship and distance increase power cost. For both reasons, conventional warp would be much more practical for a ship like voyager.
I think one possible explanation is that folding a large area of space over on to itself to transport an object the size of Voyager might cause a rip in the fabric of space/time. Perhaps this could even be the case if a smaller ship tried to travel over a longer distance? Bending the space/time continuum in such a manner could be very dangerous, what's to stop it from "snapping" and causing all sort of havoc? Even standard warp drive has been shown to "damage" space: this sounds much more dangerous.
The energy required to displace something the size of a star ship is x^3 as volume increased. So small ships are more doable.
That and margin of error to calculate the position of a small ship vs a bigger one. You jump the ship into a small bit of space rock.
so the coax drive makes mini wormwholes?
I feel like the people living between the starting and ending points of a coaxial-warp jump would be annoyed by being folded in half.
They should embrace the chance to meet each other
I can think of a pretty damn good reason why coaxial warp wouldn't be a universal replacement, at least. You would need to know pretty much everything about the point that you want to travel to beforehand in order to safely fold the two points together, otherwise you might fold a chunk of planet to you, or a star, or an asteroid, or another ship.
I like how warp 10 worked perfectly and had a curable effect on passengers and then was never used again.
If nothing else they could have used it to send the shuttle back and forth to resupply from starfleet.
@@Doctors_TARDIS yeah, it could have been a drone ship.
@@ascherlafayette8572 Easy answer, simple solution, bye bye drama.
Even if it only worked on the shuttle if the technology worked as advertised they could have used the shuttle to return to Earth and update Star Fleet on everything that had happened and get them working on a full size version. I'd bet that with the resources Star Fleet has and the prototype in their posession they could have figured it out in no time. Failing that the shuttle could have ferried the Voyager crew home 6 at a time.
Exactly. Trek has always had bad writing but voyager has some of the worst considering the excellent premise it was based on.
Hmm, if I had to give an in universe explanation, it's possible that the size of the drive needs to be proportionate to the ship? Like for example we see the drive on Steths ship and the shuttle, they're relatively small, but proportionally would be about the same size as a small warpcore if you scaled the shuttle or Steths ship up to the size of Voyager. Perhaps it's not replicating the drive that's hard, it could be instability that comes with scaling the drive up to be large enough to be effective on Voyager. There's also the added idea that perhaps it wasn't directly compatible with Voyager itself or there wasn't enough room on the ship to construct a drive large enough without compromising the ships structural integrity or systems too much. It could also be that the amount of fuel required to make the jumps scales with the distance of the jump times the size/mass of the ship, if that's true, then what would be normal power outputs on a small vessel could be astronomical for something the size of Voyager.Or it could be some not exotic fuel but still harder to get in large enough quantities to make an individual jump plus potential modifications required to voyager worth it.
Similar to how I see teh Slipstream drive as Star Trek's Version of Hyperspace Drive (Star Wars & Stargate's versions) and Slipspace Drive (Halo) the Coaxial Warp drive feels alot like the Hyperlight Jump Drive (RDM Battlestar Galactica) and I think to possible similarities to other IP's FTL methods cropping up may have been why this FTL choices were not used. As even with Coaxial warp on Voyager, it still could have had a range limit thus making the ships journey home still takes years but now to a less extreme number giving the crew hope and providing some drama as other races attack Voyager for its ever growing arsenal of technology which in turn, is how it repairs itself and survives said attacks.
I'm guessing its a mix between not being a marked advantage and not being able to replicate it for a ship the size of Voyager.
I kinda hate how often warp is (retroactively) explained/described as Alcubierre Warp because it fundamentally does not involve subspace whatsoever. Alcubierre warp in it’s current form works purely in real space, so do you know where it could be used? In subspace dead zones like omega molecule explosion fallout areas or high subspace traffic regions. You could say that they utilize exotic interactions with subspace to warp real space, but that’s not what happens as we know it.
And even with the distance limiting factors, I think that modified and used in conjunction with some technologies like spatial catapult or warp acceleration gates/locally placed (transwarp- but "cheaper," smaller scale, less so energy cost prohibitive) "coils" this could make for a massive and massively effective relay system...for a nearly instantaneous travel to any inhabited solar system at that... a space trolley/escalator?
With their ability to already warp spacetime, I'm surprised Star Trek still hasn't made ships that travel by making temporary mini worm holes. It seems like traveling through time is easier than making a spacetime tunnel for them.
Considering that Voyager was pretty much understaffed and her crew overworked just keeping the ship running on a day to day basis without access to starbases for maintenance, I don't think we should find it surprising that they wouldn't waste time investigating a technology that showed limited potential or feasability.
You got me to add my own theory. It all comes down to performance. Parallels can be made to the early development of the automobile. The early three strong contenders were batteries, steam, and internal combustion engines (ICE). The reasons why ICEs won makes good reading. This could explain why coaxial warp drive is not common, too many problems compared to regular warp drive.
0:50 - I've actually heard that scientists now believe time is like a slider, and even though we cannot move backwards through time when the big bang started there was sort of time in a positive direction and time in a negative direction. This somehow helps explain dark matter or something quite well, and I guess if there is a parallel universe just like ours but with a negative time value it's possible to see warp 10 devolving you! lol.
Let's just say the science in this episode was a little shakey lol.
Coaxial Warp Jumping (CWJ) is far easier than the Cytherian Space Folding (ST:TNG "The Nth Degree"). But my guess is, in universe, CWJ is quite doable. Steth however, is likely NOT the originator of the technology. He stole bodies, he likely stole the ship. Steth knew how to operate the system, even some general troubleshooting, but not how it really worked. Voyager likely stumbled into a case of alien espionage, Some alien version of the Clint Eastwood movie "Firefox", and had no idea what was going on.
At any rate, it is quite possible for a team of Starfleet engineers to figure out CWJ (with a working model on their table) well enough to manage long range test flights with shuttles. Then Voyager would eventually figure out how to make the system big enough to get the ship home in one piece, in major a few jumps. This could, by the plot, take a few years to figure out. Although only after gaining communications with Star Fleet command, is it possible to make this new "Warp jump" possible. The added brain power from home helps enormously.
Once home, CWJ is developed first but the high energy requirements, long range destination targeting problems, and the longer the jump the longer the ship will need to recover, NEVER took Quantum Slipstream (QS) off the table. QS would still take a few months to cross the Galaxy. CW would facilitate just getting across the galaxy in a few days at most, after multiple jumps. This would effectively end Warp's necessity in the Star Trek universe, except as a baseline technological boundary for first contact.
Also with distances cut so drastically, the complexion of Star Trek would change from "exploration", to near-constant war readiness when hostile factions from across the cosmos are literally only a few hours or days, instead of decades, away.
I'll just agree that it couldn't be effectively scaled up to the size of anything larger than maybe a Defiant class ship.
Also I could help but feel like this tech was similar to the platforms on one of the planets they encounter, Valarians I think, where everyone is "Pleasurable", Harry travels to some distant planet and comes back all excited, then Tuvok disobeys orders and gets the tech that cannot work for them anyway.
My god I hate the “Class 2” shuttle designation that just came out of nowhere after that shuttle was made for Voyager and was referred to as “Type-9”, in keeping with most other shuttle class names. But then you can’t expect anything like consistency from the Voyager staff...
I don’t know when Voyager couldn’t properly replicate this coaxial drive. My old TV had coaxial technology years ago!
Some Trek writers rooms needed engineers with experience in the fictional universe's technology. Voyager was a great example of why this would have been useful.
Great video!! Maybe it ties back to the fact Warp Travel distorts space-time, and bending an estimated 20 lightyears of space would cause serious problems if this were the case.
Based on the information provided here, the coaxial drive might be better suited to torpedo propulsion. Put a Starfleet type phasing cloak on those torpedoes, and you'd have one awesome weapons system.
Fair. Maybe it wasn’t worth testing the technology on the USS Voyager, seeing as how the whole ship and crew would be lost, along with the technology, if it did catastrophically fail.
Okay now you're first problem is in trying to say plot and Voyager in the same sentence, as everyone knows that TV series could not ever follow its own plot from a single episode let alone for the whole series.
There was a STNG episode showing Barkeley having his mind altered from a probe to where he modified the Enterprise D to execute a similar process to visit the probe's creators and let's not forget about the Star Blazers anime and their jump Theory.
I have seen enough Event Horizon to know why space folding, like the coax warp, is a very VERY bad idea...
@
Certifiably Ingame You are overlooking the prime reason, Starfleet wouldn't be gunho about such tech. What is Star Fleets primary mission? That is why, space folding tech by its very nature skips ahead to a predetermined location, thus missing out all they could've discovered along the way.
As for your theory about its effectiveness, while It's probally not possible on larger ships for the reason you stated, if there's a limit of distance on smaller ships, it would still be more efficient in the short term, making it a preferred way to travel while doing currier type missions or trying to transport a diplomat without drawing a lot of attention, among other such types of things.
Peregrine's (plus other fighter craft) equipped with Coaxial Warp drives? Sounds good to me.
Like the F-102's in Stargate?
If eXotic Matter is a problem... I could actually see how that could be an opportunity, a key, a solution in of itself, for a nearly perfect closed cycle energy system... Just add a few other technologies in to the mix and make a loop system... with excess overflow(created from external* field interactions) itself being used as power (used in ships operations and "conventional" propulsion, etc....) rather than the actual power (that is)being generated(in the system) and re-diverted(in co-convergent and parallel cycles(looped like a spiral folded onto itself)) to ensure continual operation... it's not _perpetuum mobile_ no, not quite... but not bad, quite close actually,
and potentially a systemic step forward for us as a technologically dependent species, and systematic one too, logistically speaking...
...might also need additional* (and innovatively* so)computational power for near constant reconfiguration and decapitation, but that's not a problem, an opportunity in of itself as well really...buy that's sort of a different project... but like many before it in our history they'll find themselves joint soon enough in order for us to succeed and move forward...we will after all need to be more innovative, more so than ever before, to climb over this next obstacle, this next little-big step in the Great Filter process.., assuming one subscribes to such philosophies...
tom paris is a classic movie buff, he saw event horizon and put the kibosh on it.
Tom paris is like an adult weasley crusher but with more character.
Coaxial Drive seems like the drive the Guild Navigators in Dune use.
Personally I'm in same mind set as yourself that it was only ever viable for a small shuttle craft than a large starship but even if that's not the case it would be very good for wartime more than exploration as you could easily miss something of note that it's only possible at certain times were as for us on a warship just like with discovery the ability to for lack of a better word jump in and attack then jump away just as quickly would be very useful, in terms of the show I'd say it had more to do with it being very similar to the FTL drive on BSG so they decided against it I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but I sware voyager was still running when BSGs remake started which would account for star treks writers not wanting to use it due to being so similar to FTL
How is the bubble created?. I guess the coils.are stretched ( by what,i dont know) and latches on to the vacuum some how.
I would prefer to revisit the catapult technology the Voyager crew helped to develop in the episode where Seven went crazy paranoid.
The most likey reasion is that it would require exstencive sensor data of where you want to go so as not emerg within a dark mater object thus limiting the range to sncor range of the moving ship, such a system would be better in settaled space wear the distance and motion of the target system is known but for the federation and there exsporation vessales it would prove less usfull.
Also what about when you jump out? what is the minumum safe distance?
When the ship jumps out in the show theres a bright flash and the shields flaire so could there be negative impact on systems you jump out from.if there is then this would make it even less populer with star fleet, but as a military jump system it would be great, jump in at a known target, jump out and flatten them with your wash.
If you factor in the time you'd have to take to map the space you're jumping into so you don't jump into something solid, there would probably be a net loss of efficiency over great distances.
I don't see why they couldn't have allowed one of these technologies to get them back much sooner in the series. There's plenty they could do with that, if not more. Regular trips to and from the delta quadrant and such. They could show Starfleet messing with the new technologies and even other species trying to steal them.
0:55 - Question, what class of ship is that? I tried looking up "USS Waltham" and the NCC number but got no results.
Vanguard class. In STO its listed as an Emissary Star Cruiser
@@themark443 Apparently it's called the Sentinel class, not Vanguard? Your reply did lead me to find it, though, so thanks.
I am going to guess it is the range per jump. You do have to fold all the space between where you are and where you want to be. And bending space where there are large bodies of mass would probably be more difficult.
Also, do you avoid the possibly weird properties of the space that you are bypassing? Star Trek is infamous about strange physics in random space sectors.
i think your weekends are more fun than mine m8!
Sounds like an Event Horizon probability issue lol.. liberate tutemet ex inferis
Unfortunately Starfleet absolutely refuses to move on.
Even the Enterprise-J was still sporting warp nacelles.
I wouldn't be surprised if Starfleet regress's back to warp 5 engines.
have to admit the coaxial warp drive sounds like the jump drive from Battlestar Galactica
5:46 24 hours at Warp 9 to go just from Earth to Proxima Centauri??
possible cause of not being used - potential damage to sub-space caused by the coaxle drive.
Bending space like that would destroy a ship. You see standered warp is relatively safe but folding space like the co axel drive would do would simple rip the ship apart do to space and gravity being destitute randomly. A small stability zone could let a small shuttle co axel travel but something as large a the main ship would not be able to. Plus the real world power needs for warp travel are next to impossible and folding space like the co alex drive needs even more ridicules amounts of energy. So it would simply be impractical or impossible\ suicidally dangerous to use.
It was never reused because it's not in the script.
Prolonged exposure to Coaxial Warp fields cause bubbles of subspace to form inside of plot holes and so the Federation banned it to protect the one thing that has kept the Federation from being destroyed time and time again.
Gallen Dugall Implying the Federation isn't eternal and invincible?
Section 31 would like to: Know your location.
The double meaning of " plot holes " cannot be underestimared......
'
I would love to explore 7 of 9's " plot holes " and " boldly go " right inside them , just to be sure . I mean she could be hiding a class 10 Orgasm Generator in them , that's serious tech . They can regenerate from a full discharge to 100 per cent in seconds at least 20 to 30 times leaving any male ( or female ) examiner totally paralized and even witnesses can suffer visual problems .
This is Pornhub isn't it ??? Oh dear I think I'm in a mirror Internet ......... maybe .
Them came the Burn
@@FedoReds88 a plot hole so massive that it almost completely destroyed Star Fleet's plot armor until an officer with near Mary-Sue amounts of plot armor could come from the past to restore it.
Its simple.
Writer 1: Hey i got a cool idea for a new alien engine tech that Voyager can use to get home
Writer 2: Yeah thats neat, we can use that, they wont actually get home though
Writer 1: Why not?
Writer 2: We are contractually obligated to write more seasons
Yeah, like three or four at the very least.
Since they utterly failed to take advantage of Voyager's setting and situation they probably would've been better off just skipping straight home and setting it in the aftermath of the Dominion War.
The reason is that Voyager forgot to save _coaxial warp drive_ to their main back up before doing a *ship reset* at the end of the week to repair any damage.
A groundbreaking technological advancement destroyed by a scheduled Windows update. Of course! This happens all the time!
The tech just got overwritten to make space for the Doctors opera database.
LCARS# copy startup-config to running-config
"Wait... did I write memory after that last warp configuration? Oh well, at least the hole in deck 7 is back to normal."
I like the idea the size/mass of the ship matters. I can see a post-Dominion War Starfleet equipping a squadron of Defiant Class ships with Coaxial Warp Drives for a limited range, rapid responds and deployment missions in emergency situations.
Exactly. This is perfect for smaller ships like Defiant-Classes, roundabouts, and even on Starfleet fighter craft and bombers! Hell, even other ships, like the Steamrunner, Norway, and Nova class ships could benefit using coaxial drives given they're not made for long range operations.
There's just so many tactical applications in using this form of FTL and can be used within a mass scale.
@@jaymikevillanueva1212 How much more volatile is it than creating a warp bubble though? Since we know standard Warp creates "tears" from one of the later episodes of TNG, what would literally bending space at certain points do to that
Logically, provided the warp drive system can create a warp field/fold/bubble which encompasses the entire craft, it shouldn't matter how massive or bulky it actually is. Also, don't forget that these warp-capable craft all have inertia-cancelling "dampers", which must essentially nullify some fairly significant physical properties and laws, including mass.
Idea I wish they'd run with for coaxial warp in Voyager:
-Yes, coaxial warp works, and is reliable and stable now.
-Yes, it was implemented on a 16m long alien vessel, and a notably smaller Federation shuttle.
-Yes, the crew can reproduce the technology.
-No, they can't realistically scale the size of ship the drive works on.
-No, they can't realistically expand the range per jump beyond a certain point which leaves it functionally only superior to conventional warp for that specific range or less.
- *KEEP USING THE COAXIAL WARP EFFECT* but only on shuttles making short trips away from Voyager.
Star Trek "Self contained episodes" with ocassional, yet still powerful callbacks, where not conductive to such 'configuration management' story telling. SG-1, designed form outset as series, had terrific build up.
Unfortunately that leads to bringing the ship back home one box at a time.
@@piotrd.4850
Huh? That's bullshit, Stargate was a bit better about remembering previous 'tech of the week' or at least providing an in episode reason they couldn't have it (usually a highly contrived situation destroying it), but it still had tons of examples of useful shit that everyone just kind of forgets about, or that provides a really weak justification why it can't be used, or one that could be easily countered with another piece of tech they'd encountered before.
The most glaring example is that there is no way in HELL they can't have gotten access to a sarcophagus by a few seasons into the show and the side effects are ludicrously minor given the benefits and explicitly only even occur with chronic use. Like why isn't there one of those sitting in the SGC to revive people killed on missions? Well the answer of course is "muh drama", but the problem is it makes no logical sense.
Coaxial warpshuttles which could travel much faster than starships ... but are comparatively tiny so they have severely limited range, fuel, crew, cargo, supplies?
That would put an interesting twist on Trek shows.
Coaxial warpcouriers for carrying annoying diplomats and packages, freeing up flagships for important stuff.
Coaxial warpfighter strikes (launched from carrier starships).
Coaxial missiles/torpedoes/probes which can "instantly jump" to targets lightyears away.
Coaxial "short-range" purpose-built warships like the Defiant (which nominally operate near support vessels).
lmao....agreed. How about build 30 of them, and send everyone home and self destruct voyager after they peace out?
Pats roof of Voyager "yup, you can fit a ton of techno babble in this beauty"
This is basically the Jump drive from BSG
It reminds me of the Frame Shift Drive from Elite dangerous
Maybe that's why they never used it for long hops, because Voyager never encountered Arrakis.
And The -Federation- Foundation series before that.
Reminds me of the jump drive from space engineers
it would be perfekt for "teleporting" bombs or torpedos to an enemy ship
You mean, like you could to with a teleporter already on all ships?
Like they did in Dark Frontier?
I only wonder why it wasn’t done more often...
The Federation already has Phase Cloaking to do that, with the added benefit of not potentially destroying the ship.
Now the real question: was it Voyager or Demon-class copy Voyager in the episode? (provided the "Copy ship" was technically alive at the time to allow this question as possible)
that's going too deep..
O__O"
Oh my God the possibilities
this ep happened before Demon, so no
@@Jarsia good catch, I just double checked using wki, to be fair to myself its been awhile since I watched "ALL" of Voyager in linear order cause I find some ether boring or just dumb. It was a interesting idea at the time... thou with how much Voyager gets smashed about they also could have just lost the info/ship somehow \o/ its Star Trek forgetting stuff they have happens so often its a wonder they don't trip over it 24/7
Thinking about it now, I'd say that it was, probably an issue with diminishing returns, ie. the larger you build the drive, the more energy you need to put in, and at anything larger than, say, the test ship, any warp core you could fit into any given hull wouldn't produce enough energy to make coaxial warp worth it or work at all. Then there's also the possibility that the range figures stated were complete bolony, because as stated, very unreliable narrator.
That makes sense.
Although given even significant limitations like this, i wonder would it not have been a useful addition to the delta flyer (and later the runabout class ships). Supposing you come under attack and are out numbered or otherwise pinned down , it could even if its short range and single use (excessive power required meaning recharge via a starship or station) be a very useful escape mechanism for the less powerful ships. Sort of like a whole ship emergency transporter with usage similar to the ftl drive in bsg, you get in over your head and you can jump away.
So why not build a fleet of small ships, put voyager on auto driver or let the doctor driver it. They will get to earth in no time.
@ Out of what? They had to cannibalize the Captain's Yacht to build the Delta Flyer, (according to some of the secondary material at least) and having someone else do it would mean massive tech transfers both ways. All sorts of troubles there too.
That and the show would be over then and there.
Now... now that actually reminds me of the problem* of Tokamaks, ((Soviet)Toroid design) reactor system,
and how it was thought to be an unsolvable one in terms of scaling up the technology, a necessity due to its limited power output, the only if a glaring flaw for an otherwise superior technology, at least, the very least in terms of efficiency and fuel requirements..,
until recently... with the so called Stellarators(now being implemented in Germany as first prototypes are already, finally, online and operable thanks to rapid deployment and construction of necessary and necessarily complex parts needed in newly designed twisted toroidal/reinforced magnetic constriction fields) design, although, admittedly, it was impossible to implement until recently, due to improvements and the very development of industrial(although, to be fair, it, that version/principle, etc.etc. existed if on a "smaller" scale, in a smaller area of uses for a while now, and not until recently was it deemed as something feasible to implement in fields previously unrecognized as profitable, not until recent publicity and nigh-colloquial use) 3d printing technologies and their continued adaptation and implementation in new fields thanks to increased sponsorship from rising public awareness and support for technology... although all such wonders are still mostly in development as we're still figuring out the logistical of a world wide use by populace as well as new industries unfamiliar with these methodics prior, on a more common, daily base...
@6:00 There would always be tactical value in an instantaneous jump. Even if this jump only works on shuttles, being able to blink jump them into a battle at any time would have huge value. I think the in universe explanation on this one is pretty simple. My guess would be that it has a non trivial chance of leaving you in a random point in space with every jump. AKA, its safety and reliability doesn't meet Star Fleet standards. That would limit its use to unmanned combat drones or exploration probes, but that then means the chance that other species could find Star Fleet tech if something goes wrong. So they just don't use it.
Like using the transporter and ending up halfway in a wall.
Okay, now that I think about it. It can still work as escape solution. If the most important thing is to stop being where you currently are, a random jump within 20 lightyears or so is still better than a hug from a disruptor.
I really like the idea that it's too impractical for larger ships, it gives the writers the ability to use it occasionally to explain how people can escape from Federation capital ships.
I find a distance limit to be the most convincing explanation. Surely there must be a difference in the power requirements and the complications between folding two points one light year apart together and folding the delta quadrant so it touches the beta quadrant. One is like pinching a bed sheet, the other is trying to fold it perfectly in half with nothing but your teeth.
id bet with some practice you could fold a sheet with your teeth. its like a snake trying to fold a sheet in the wind?
@@omg_RANCORS Well I was originally going to go with folding it with your eye lids, but sure, I like the snake idea!
@@indetigersscifireview4360
Well, it can be done ...
... if you have a 10+ ton hydraulic press to hand ...
@@nigelft Which turns the paper into calcite. I would not to find out what the supspace equivalent is.
@@Janoha17 demons probably
If distance and/or size of the ship cubes power requirements, that alone could be prohibitive. Add exotic matter to the list and that would be the death knell. I have to agree, your theory is sound.
And it's not nearly fast enough that they could justify sending the shuttle to fed space either once or acting as a ferry to get the crew home.
Though you would think a quick small ship would be handy for the crew even if it's just short instantaneous local jumps.
an ftl drive powered by XM? now thats the ultimate extension of "wake up, Agents - its time to move"
That sounds alot like the Jump drive from nuBSG! and it could share the same issues maybe? Instantaneous, but short range, of course that could be solved with the Feds. better sensors, and more powerful and advanced networked computer systems. Charge-up and cool down time perhaps?
Not to mention a very detailed mapping of the galaxy( warp 10 provided ). Conclusion: Build a slightly larger Sovereign class with a triple warp/drive system. I hope they saved the formula that Q used on the enterprise D to get the shields up to 300%. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride
Jump drives have been common in SciFi for a very long time. The Jump drives in the Asimov foundation series kept the jumps small so that they could evaluate the target location as unoccupied by telescopes with reasonable probability. Indeed, most classic SciFi jump drives had this as a limiting factor. I did not get the impression of the coaxial drive being a jump drive but of being similar to the transwarp conduits used by the Borg and the Slipstream drive but instead of attempting to create a conduit of warped space, it created warping more local to the ship hence an open ended conduit that was only a full conduit at the ship instead of well ahead of the ship.
@@johnwang9914 With such intense energy, where does all the heat go?
@@sirdeadlock You do realize that FTL drives including jump drives are fictional...
As to dissipating heat, in space heat can only be radiated hence the large wing like radiators of the golden age of SciFi from the 50's and 60's. They would often have the heat radiators as three fins or four fins to prevent one fin from picking up the heat radiated from the other. Some people draw diagrams with thousands of fins around the spaceship, the fact that this would only result in each radiator picking up the heat of the others only demonstrates their ignorance of the concepts.
One detail that is always overlooked is that radiated heat is in fact infrared light and hence can be reflected and focused. I've always imagined the radiator being a single pipe in a reflector trough which focuses the infrared through a slit in the hull. This limits the amount of radiation that could be absorbed from outside sources to that which may get through the slit but still allows all the heat to be expelled outside the ship. Plus this idea would give the ship nice glowing red racing stripes perhaps angled to provide additional thrust from the infrared radiation.
Note dissipating heat is a serious problem with the Alcubiere drive, the basic warp drive concept. That's because the warp bubble is in fact a pocket universe and heat can not be dissipated from it, it's believed that from Hawking radiation alone, such a warp drive would immerse the spaceship in more heat than existed at the Big Bang. The occupants of the spaceship would not only be cooked but incinerated.
@@johnwang9914 Of course Dune solved the same issue via space magic, after they got rid of the AI. I imagine you could make a pretty damned speedy repeated jump drive with even normal sensors, provided you didn't jump inside of any cloaked ships.
The thing you're missing, is Evil Janeway.
Janeway, being the budding God-Emperess-Tyrant that she was, knew that coaxial warp couldn't _safely_ be used. Of course, given that this is "Science Officer Shoot-First Janeway", that's not really a problem; it's how you _weaponize_ it that counts.
Starfleet never found out about this -weapon- propulsion system, because Janeway had plans for it upon getting back to the Federation. That's part of how she jumped straight past Rear Admiral and Admiral, to _Fleet Admiral._
Her army of warrior cobalt tarantulas also helped don’t forget!
I'm sorry, what in God's almighty name are you talking about?? She almost *never* shot first, and she wasn't a Tyrant at *all*! What are you talking about? Have you even watched Voyager?
'Sonic what the hell are you talking about?'
May not be the best forum for it but Aron Eisenberg the actor who played Nog passed away yesterday. He was 50. Cause of death has not been stated.
Wasn't he fighting cancer or something?
@@titusallen1620 I don't think so. At least I never heard anything about it.
Lukos0036 my condolences to his family his story ark in ds9 was one of my favorites he helped change how ferengis were viewed not only in universe but also by the fans
Eric?
@@radeadcool Auto correct. Ty for catching that.
coaxial warp drive implosion diverted by means of extending a gluten free symmetric warp field thingy around the wonky ship thus diverting a gigantic mess across several light years of space and loss of the ships security deposit...of course a healthy dose of technobabble and suspension of disbelief make for a more interesting script and plot narrative...albeit a less explodey one
I hear it's 1Gbps coaxial warp drive, too... and the new Q update supports coaxial warp ax. Exciting times for the technobabbles!
Gluten free? OK I'll work w that, I just go w 'it's the script' but I'm game to take your view on it. Of course if they had just hit w a hammer twice it'd work. Or the old 'I will break you into a 1000 pieces' has been known to motivate some things to work, also tends to get you to a live person when dealin w automated answering systems.
@@docbrown7916 for me adding Gluten Free to anything just makes it funnier...just like saying pumpkin spice meth...(which is also most likely gluten free...as is fluorine gas and cyanide...and those are both all natural and non GMO) yeah, i have a weird brain...
@@scottmantooth8785 Mine is just as weird, no worries ! At 56, originally from a mafia area of NJ and worked in construction, retail, escort work and advanced security and & near death experiences, I am a very strange person, but this is what makes us non normal and why roasting normals is so much fun.
@Nat20 Damage coax now for a brighter tomorrow.
Pollution, the coaxial drive was probably found be damaging, to subspace as high warp with conventional warp dive, and the future of space travel may have to be slipstream, if Andromeda is the future of space travel, they say it is the only way to to, using space actual distortion, instead of warping it.
They also found the spore drive damaging which is sad because it was even faster than coaxial warp.
I really like the "Coaxial Induction Drive". I don't think Janeway would risk a shuttle or crew-member if it wasn't going to be worthwhile from a performance standpoint. I think they made the episode, then realized that they could send a few crewmen home at a time, and that would end the show, so they swept it under the rug. Probably the same rug they swept the Borg infant from the "Collective" episode under.
Isn't Coaxial Warp just the same as making a wormhole? 🤔
That's what I thought.
More like the 2004 BSG FTL drive.
In real world (stop booing ...) terms, it is exactly that ...
As physicist are wont to do, rather than transverse the distance between two furthest points on a piece of paper, you 'poke' a hole at the point of origin, hope for spacetime to fold on itself, thereby enabling to poke another 'hole' at the destination (but I guess you already knew that, so nvm ...).
Trouble is, not only are wormwholes purely theoretical, you have to hope that that black hole is connected to the, still yet to be discovered, white hole, thus avoid the nasty business of trying to negotiate a gravitational singularity. But given any known physics falls apart beyond the event horizon, then you're looking at a pretty difficult problem ...
In universe, and if the graph in 'TNG: Technical Manual' is correct, then, the issue is one of energy. Iirc, the graph is logarithmic, meaning every step in warp velocity requires an exponential increase of amount of energy, until at Warp 10, you need an infinite amount of power. And that is just the 'standard' warp core. Also, instead of compression/expansion of the typical warp bubble, you try folding spacetime around yourself, that requires not only sufficient energy to open a wormhole, but sustain it (due to Hawking Radiation, black holes can, and do, 'evaporate', with the time it takes to do so is related to its mass, and size ...).
Put the two together, and it is logical to assume that only a relatively large shuttle, which doesn't need a particularly large wormhole to travel through, would only be able to travel a (relatively ...) small distance, because of the energy demands, and the size of the core proportional to the ship, and its mass. I would imagine even something as relatively small as Voyager (compared to, say, the Enterprise-E), in order for it to fold space, the size of the core would take up a lot of space ... and that is not including fuel storage.
Hence why it is believable Star Fleet never really pursued the idea: compared to the standard ship drive, as any advantages would be outweighed by the disadvantages.
@@nigelft Didn't see you'd posted this explanation here. I posted a somewhat similar explanation but yours is better written and is what I agree is the issue with the drive.
It's obviously different because... they gave them different names ;)
What a weird combination, to make a coaxial warp drive sound or work like a jump- or wormhole drive. The coaxial warp drive rather sounds like a drive that creates two warp bubbles working together to move the ship along the same axis, i.e. the warp bubbles work coaxially.
I believe the real problem was that it's too fast. If it's instant their is a risk of warping into something that's occupying the space
Easy way to end up like the Pegasus without risking the Treaty of Algeron.
Can you do a video for Tash's slingshot from the episode, The Voyager Conspiracy Season 6 episode 9 which allowed the voyager crew to travel 30 sectors in one hour saving them 3 years travel time
Or in other words....Catapult a vessel across space in the time it takes to say 'Catapult a vessel across space'.
That felt like they were going to set up a future storyline but abandon it. It bit weird how a piece of alien technology manage to trade hands an move some quickly across the galaxy.
@@DavidKnowles0 They actually bring that point up during the episode, but never come with an actual explanation.
It's one of the "conspiracies" Seven puts together.
Just spend a month to build one every 30 sectors and you can be home in a few jears instead of decades!
The description reminds me of the way that Tesseracts were explained in the book 'A Wrinkle in Time'
What about the xindi Subspace Drive?
Range and reliability perhaps? I've also seen the theory that these were contingent on some sort of aspect inside the expanse, i.e. no Expanse, no subspace tunnels.
another good one...good chance that once the Xendi became part of the Federation aspects of their technology were blended with current others
The technology could also be very area specific. Like only where subspace has been damaged or disrupted by the Sphere Builders would work, but maybe not the entire galaxy. Which means in the future, the Xindi may have lost its ability to Subspace Drives thanks to the destruction of the spheres. They did not know it until decades before the TOS or TNG era.
@@raw6668 this gives rise to the curious question of the possibility of using momentary warp drive within a Dyson's sphere...since they are so massive traveling from one side to the other would be nearly impossible any other way...could a warp field even form within such a structure?...
has this even been suggested or explored before now?...
Scott Mantooth - Given that the interior shell of Star Trek’s Dyson Sphere is habitable, I’d guess that the structure only reaches the “Goldie Locks” zone of the star that it encompasses. In other words, the radius of the sphere is about the same as the distance between Sun and Earth.
On a stellar scale, that’s very small, less than 8 light-minutes. I’d say that it would be pretty hard to go to warp within a Dyson Sphere unless you somehow went at extremely low speeds. Like less than Warp 0.1 or something.
If we make parallels between the Coaxial Warp and SW Hyperdrive, then perhaps aside from calculations, a detailed map of possible destinations is also required? For relatively short trips it could work, or as long as the systems you intend to travel to have been explored and charted in detail. But for any prolonged travels, especially though an unexplored space, it might not be practical (detailed scans and probing being prohibitively time intensive)
It was built out of *Weeklionium,* the internal hull material that _resets to default at the end of every week._
It's how half the ships internals can be converted into a Holodeck or blown out by power surges from a duplicate ship and be back to factory spec within a week. Great stuff, but you've got to label it when making modifications or _"poof"._
There is also seasonium, which naturally decays with a half life of one season and returns to it's natural, unexcited state.
Some things made from the material: replicator rations, fired torpedos, anything that can go faster than a long time average of warp 8, the number 47, time travel paradoxes...
Do an episode on the Sikarian spatial trajector that Torres and Seska almost blew the ship up with.
This is really just folding-space - which Dune proposed in the 1960s.
The most practical answer i can think of is that just popping up somewhere could be dangerous. Jumping into somewhere blind without knowing exactly whats there just doesn't seem smart. It would be safer to just approach things normally and be able to observe them as you get closer
There is a more simpler explanation...
Technology Comparability issues.
Federation Computers and Technology has been shown to be Notoriously picky when it comes to non-Federation Anything.
Especially in The Next Generation and even Voyager showed that with The Crew burning up Borg Trans warp Coils and the whole Slip stream Crash disaster.
Thank you Rick for answering my comment about the coaxial warp so promptly. That can join, why was the isokinetic cannon not finished, it was fitted and they were integrating it? After 7 of 9 helped them upgrade the ship's shields with Borg tech, why was it all dismantled. It was like each episode was written by a different writer who hadn't bothered to watch previous episodes. Probably the worst part of the show for me.
Just my non smartsy 2 cents. But I feel like that in order to bring two points together for a period then move across them, takes more energy than a warp field, as we've seen how efficient warp fields are. K could be wrong, but it's just a feeling.
Seems like Coaxial Warp Drives could be very useful for escape pods. True, they'd have to make the pods a little bigger to account for the extra tech, but having the means to plot a quick jump to a habitable system would come in real handy in combat scenarios or deep space accidents alike.
What if those Voyager technologies had been continuing researching in federation space in Picard series?
That ship in the first minute or so is beautiful, the USS Waltham NCC-96176-F... What class is that? It’s lovely.
3:08 Just like every movie from the early 2000's that ever tried to explain a wormhole lol.
Even if you can't use it for bigger ships. It still would be extremly valuable for shuttle too jump and "disapear" if they were attacked.
So if the Galactica could be said to use warp drive at all (or their version of it) It would be coaxial?
We do have supporting lore to suggest that it must not have worked out too- We do see Voyager incorporate technology into itself that permanently increases it's efficiency and ability to maintain higher warp speeds, this suggests that any tech that *can* be used to speed up the trip *is* and was a decent bit of writing that lets us infer that if we don't see them use it then it must not have worked.
This tech would actually be a really great fit for late 24th or 25th century shuttles to use, though. Having one or just a handful of very specialised shuttles that can do near instantaneous 'hops' to a reasonable distance, yet having it still be unable to work on starships, would be a great addition to the capability, but also story telling, of trek ships
the Coaxial Warp Drive is rough on the ship the damage would have to be repaired after each jump and that would lose time
“‘Conclusion: Don’t worry about it!’ HAHAHAHA! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣l” (-James)