What Happens To Old Starships?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2020
- Eventually every Federation Starfleet Starship reaches the end of its service. Sometimes that's due to destruction but other times its because of decommissioning.
But what goes into a Starship's final days? How can it serve the fleet beyond its time on the line?
"Junkyard Tribe" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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My commanding officer told me that when a starship gets really old and has a hard time performing its duties it'll get sent to a nice reserve fleet up-quadrant where it can fly around, and scan things, and there are lots of other starships out there for it to play with so it'll never get lonely...
With shuttles and escape pods and space parachutes.
I hope there would be some older Bird Of Preys for it to play with? Scanning for stuff would probably get boring after a while lol nothing beats a little bit of action lol
Why is this wholesome 😢
Dude, get a grip on reality. there are no such things as starship yet. You don't have a commanding officer that tells you anything. Except mabe in your imagination.
@@LarsDOil nice, you set them straight
“So admiral we have a few older ships, upgraded of course, for your-“
“B-52”
“Yes sir, those are still in use....amazingly.”
“Thank you.”
Can you okay one made into a starship
@@anthonywilliams379 The lifespan of the remaining B-52H fleet is going to be further extended by re-engining... who's to say you couldn't swap turbofans for warp nacelles?
Air forces are pretty ridiculous when it comes to this, even well-funded ones. I understand North Korea or some small African country keeping a Mig-15, but then you look at the B-52 and the Tu-95 Bear. It's pretty amazing what upgrades can do.
@@Ved000000.
YEP, when you consider the age they will likely be come eventual retirement, that would be akin to Britain and Germany still operating their Spitfires and BF109s respectively.
Rwrock Lobstahhh!
I feel like "The Dominion War" is the answer to what happened to 90% of old Starships - if that fleet had been much more cobbled together the NX-01 would have been heading it.
Ikr!
It still kills me how quickly some of those old ships got destroyed instantly… but then I remember how quickly they took out the Odyssey. And thats about the best tech they had so far
@@jamchiroptera4258 I think part of it was they didn't know how to defend against dominion weapons at the beginning of the war.
After that one episode where they commandeer that crashed dominion ship, Starfleet ships seem to fare somewhat better in the battles; Starfleet engineering corps reverse-engineers the enemy's tech, and learns not only how to defend against them but also their weak points and how to correctly attack a dominion battle cruiser.
The breen had the same "surprise advantage" when they used the energy-dampening weapon, but once the federation quickly neutralized that threat by developing defenses against it, the breen weren't that dangerous anymore
It's implied that The Dominion was well ahead of The Federation at the start of the war, being an older galactic power. But The Dominion's technology development curve was far slower than The Federation due to different doctrines on policy, thus The Federation started to gain the upper hand towards the end of the war.
@@EdricLysharae Or as Gul Dukat said, "Never underestimate the Federations technical skill or resourcefulness."
I just thought "decommissioning" equaled renaming it Enterprise, giving it to Kirk, and watching the destructive wackiness that ensued.
There is also the Starfleet museum where some decommissioned Starfleet ships are sent.
Starfleet museum is like an old people retirement home for starships. This is depressing.
I want to visit
Like for example
I think NX-01
is a museum.
I was going to say that as well. They said in the finale that the Enterprise NX-01 became a museum ship and Deanna Troy said that she might have been there to see it once but there were so many museum ships that she couldn't remember if she'd been to see the NX-01 or not and they seemed to blend together after awhile
TNG Relics:
SCOTT: Ah.
PICARD: Constitution class.
SCOTT: Aye. You're familiar with them?
PICARD: There's one in the Fleet museum, "
Meanwhile in Stellaris I had 2 corvettes -survive- serve honourably for 600 years after being refit for the 70th time
Those two Corvettes should be names "Most" and "Honorable" and never be seen apart.
I feel like it would make sense to a super advanced civilization. Once you have a massive tech advantage over other species, it's easier to keep old stuff around longer (for example, a gun from the 1600s would still be useful today if everyone else had sticks and stones)
@@SkinnerNoah not particularly, a 1600s gun is inferior to sticks and stones in most circumstances. They are only particularly useful in combat when that combat is based around volley fire or a few other specific uses.
A stone is a very good weapon, you can carry many per person and maintain a steady rate of fire and high accuracy with some skill.
So, even if you are only fighting folks with sticks and stones you would rather field a few modern infantry divisions with long range highly accurate semi and full automatic weapons along with the usual array of alternate weapons, tools and support items. When the alternative would be to field an entire army of musket men and the associated supply train and employing the tactics developed for such weapons.
A single guy with a single shot firearm is absolutely at the mercy of a hand full of stick weilding tribesmen.
That same guy with a basic AR15 and a couple magazines will actually be able to impose some will on the enemy.
@@DrewLSsix For as long as his ammunition does not run out of course. Logistics trumps all in warfare and a single guy with (say) 3 magazines of 30 rounds each will have a real problem against tribes of more than 90 members.
@@SkinnerNoah *in The Changeling Saga, Book 1 by Peter Garrison an example of this is demonstrated where a somewhat repentant thug is transported/trans-located to another parallel world called Castle where magic is the primary technology...he encounters a local wizard(ish) figure whose appearance is not what it seems looking for a way to recover a horde of gold from a Noble house that is now extinct but protected by various spells that make such a task very tricky... the thug has a handgun and is warned not to use it until it is modified to work as intend in that location...however this is never done (at least in the first book) and very unexpected and unpredictable things take place within that reality whenever he uses it*
Everybody knows a Starship starts to depreciate the moment you drive it off the lot 🚀💸
That's why I got the undercoating on mine, Starfleet said it would hold it's value down the line.
Only a fool buys a starship NEW! I always buy one that is 3-4 years old, has already lost all the initial depreciation. Much better buys!
As the famous Admiral Scotty once said, if it ain't U.S.S. Celica, he is not interested.
And if its red tour insurance goes up.
I like this...
Hmm. Take an old Excelsior class, strip out the warp core and many of the systems, take off the nacelles and replace them with docking arrays, tow it to a fledgling colony and bam. Instant Starbase.
wouldn't you want to leave the warp core to make electricity
@@chefjamesmacinnis No, it's too advanced for such a colony. You can always add an oldschool steam engine with huge boilers, though.
@@chefjamesmacinnis Starships have nuclear reactors for power. The warp core is strictly for the warp drive. The ship can still function without the warp core.
@@lancerevell5979 High Energy Plasma. Not nuclear.
Good idea. The enormous saucer sections from decommissioned Galaxy class starships would make great space stations for less advanced federation friendly worlds. Especially since they had already that huge main shuttle bay.
What happens to old starships?
They go into a destruction derby and the remaining parts are kitbashed into background ships.
I was just imagining that as a fate for ships in the Orville universe. ^5
I can imagine the pilots shouting “Raming Speed!”
Not gonna lie, I kinda want to see a starship battleroyale or destruction derby game...
Press F for whatever poor Galaxy class became USS Firebrand
Press F for whatever poor Galaxy class and Ambassador class that became the Niagara class starships...
In the William Shatner Novel "Ashes of Eden", The Enterprise is sold to a small space faring race to use as a system patrol vessel. The Enterprise has been stripped of weapons and other system before being sold. Still having her shields, she is outfitted with Klingon Disruptors. It is a really good book and should be checked out
Ah yes, Teilani. Might have to pull it from the ol library.
The whole trilogy was excellent. William Shatner is an under rated writer.
Underrated book series, but I've noticed no canon source ever really states the Enterprise A's fate. It wasn't mentioned in Generations with the christening of the B and never brought up on TNG or DS9. Of course, I always did love the first few books in the Shatnerverse and how they bring back Kirk in the 24th century.
@@darthhauler9947 likely a museum ship. It is an Enterprise
Thats something along my head canon lines too.
"Old Starships never die, they just...warp away..."
I always liked to believe the Enterprise-A ended up in the Fleet Museum. The only surviving ship Kirk commanded would have been a huge draw.
i believe a copy of it was.
and here we are.. Star Trek Picard S.3 Ep. 6
Turns out it was :)
Thank God 1701-A survived the scrapyard, I swear, if Trek revealed that the last Connie Captain Kirk served on was broken up for fucking scrap, most people would've lost it
My dream for a new ST would be the Milkyway in the distant future. A species of aliens from another galaxy basically came through and sent the entire milkyway back to the stoneage. But eventually, they moved on. On earth, we've rediscovered rudimentary space flight and try to find debris to analyze for and tech we can reverse engineer but it's slow. Until, in one of the small moons of Saturn they find a ship. NCC-1701 A. A former museum piece, no weapons or transporters but a warp core and deflector system they can repair and journey back into space. (The A because that's the prettiest ship in sci-fi, imo)
The modularity of Starfleet ships gives them a pretty big advantage. It's relatively easy to upgrade them to keep up with modern ships. And when they truly become obsolete, it's easy to take out all the modular parts for other uses.
Also, Starfleet ships seem relatively easy to break down for colonization. Remember how in "Children of Time," the Defiant's crew were able to break down the ship to build their settlement. Starships have a lot of components that can be used to build planetary infrastructure, fusion generators, replicators, computer cores, etc. I'd imagine Stafleet sends a lot of old ships on one way trips to colonize new planets.
If you go by STO lore, it's the same with Romulan ships. Many of the Romulan refugee colonies were built from old warbirds.
That's actually a really smart use of them. The colony is gonna need walls and roofs and floors, and they'll need a ship to transport it all anyway....
th-cam.com/video/nQHBAdShgYI/w-d-xo.html
@spikedpsycho The problem lies in the base structure of the ship, parts of the ship that can't be replaced without a complete teardown because they're in parts of the ship can't be accessed unless they literally tear the ship apart but also support most of the ship's superstructure, internal or otherwise.
This is the point where they just decommission instead, as it's about the same effort to tear down and rebuild/upgrade, as it would to just build a new ship. If the base structure is in good serviceable shape, just outdated, then they mothball, else it's the scrapyard.
@spikedpsycho Perhaps, but like modern aircraft, there comes a point where repeated and/or excessive stress of major structural members becomes a significant factor in the decision to retire or refit/upgrade a ship. And starships do tend to take a pounding - just the stresses involved with simple FTL, repeated for 30 or 40 or 50 years, add up. And we're not even considering the effects of battle, ion storms, gravity shear, etc.
Remember, repairs like this involve literally tearing out those structural members, often requiring more work than is involved with building a new ship Ask anyone who's ever replaced the damaged frame of an automobile to return it to daily service if it's really worth the expense and effort. The only time it's justified is in unusual cases like vintage, historical, or special-purpose vehicles, and usually only if it is planned to be operated in actual service.
I can tell you even a new car, once it has taken the kind of damage requiring a frame replacement, is generally written off and sent to a salvage yard. And if the car is of significant age, there isn't even consideration of 'should we...?'. It's gone, end of sentence. With the aforementioned Ship of Theseus, it is not in front-line service (or in service in ANY capacity, in fact); and extensive repairs like that are justified because it's a historical artifact, even if isn't technically the same ship anymore.
Just like my Fathers ship he served on the USS Hornet. She was planned to be sold as scrap, but a group stopped that from happening. She is now a museum ship berthed permanently in Alameda Naval Air Station. If you want a tour you need to call ahead to be placed on the schedule.
Your dad served on the Hornet? I’ve seen it from a distance multiple times, now I’d love to get a tour if I’m ever in the Bay Area again, that’s cool!
@@lukasp5892Oh do it! We were given a guided tour on board that wonderful gal.
Alameda? Where the nuclear wessels are?
Well, first when they decommission a ship, they remove the unused explodium for reuse in the newer ships, even though that seems oversupplied on just about every Federation ship.
After that they remove the rocks and refit them for the exploding bridge panels, since all bridges needs exploding rocks.
After that the warp core breach sensors and generators are striped and added to any new ship that exhibits a tendency to not breach its warp core containment field any time the ship is under stress. Stress being anything more strenuous than sitting in orbit while two crew people talk too loudly.
Always thought it was funny that upon its return the Delta Flyer was apparently mothballed. You can just imagine the guy that’s in charge of accounting for all the ships in his care struggling to fit it in starfleet’s catalog.
I have to mention, you forgot about museum ships and also ex starships ending up in civilian service. Though the latter isn’t seen as much in canon, the former is directly referenced as vessels like _Enterprise_ NX-01 and a variety of other vessels.
Alternate timeline, but you could also include Voyager, which future Janeway mentioned became a museum.
I was waiting for him to mention museum ships for most of the video, thinking of Voyager (which probably still became a museum, especially if you consider its future tech being kept out of use to protect the timeline), only to be surprised this fate wasn't mentioned.
I was a little surprised museum ships weren't mentioned as well. One of the ships my father served on in the U.S. "wet" Navy is a museum ship not far from my home now, and most of the Space Shuttles are now museum pieces.
Well done, you beat me to it; I was just thinking about the Museum ships, I seem to remember mention of these a few times in Trek.
I also remember one of the books mentions a Constitution Class Starship being turned into a museum.
Some of them are repurposed to haul away garbage. Oh my mistake. I mean they get hauled away AS garbage.
Cue fight music. Cyrano, get away from that drink dispenser.
Just don't tell Scotty! "Them's fighting words!"
Why not use garbage to haul away other garbage? Like say bassically have a hulk with a gen 1 essentially obsolete warpcore haul, a hulk away to some junkyard.
"WHY did you hit the Klingons?"
Who Started the fight - I DONT KNOW SIR !!
Find the DS9 version / comparison its great
"Stolen by some farmboy," LOL.
From Iowa
He doesn't live in outer space. He only works there. He said so himself.
Can you imagine in ST Picard, if instead of Picard flying around in a lame freighter, he stole the Stargazer from some mothball shipyard? It could have been used and upgraded during the dominion war so it could hold its own in a fight.
That's a good idea. And as we know, good ideas will never make it into current-day Trek.
Ah, but that would have been clever and cool. We can't have anything clever and cool in new Trek
When the trailer was released, some people speculated that Picard got his hands on the old Romulan bop that was shown. And that that would be the ship they use for the show. It would be no match for a modern ship but it would thematically serve the purpose of "retired obsolete thing seeing action again". Between Picard's old connections and favors he would've accumulated, and his Tal'Shiar housekeepers knowing where to "borrow" things they could've resupplied that thing for their crazy lone wolf adventure. Remove the dumb saving the girl plot and replace it with a mystery conspiracy that no one will take seriously.
No it would just be junk. It's like taking a 1970s era supercomputer and re-purposing it for modern work. Theoretically possible but only as a novelty idea since it would require far too many human resources, troubleshooting, expense, and in the end it would be far slower than a $5 system on chip that has everything packaged into one piece instead of taking up half a room.
The Stargazer would have required a larger crew than a freighter and would have been more expensive to operate and maintain than a simple freighter. Where was the money going to come from, if it was no longer a Starfleet vessel?
I like to think there's the occasional ship that gets the honour of becoming an artificial reef of sorts for cosmozoans, giving a home to new life (and maybe even new civiliazations later down the line)
I believe that, in one story, the Enterprise was later is we as a museum piece. Cpt. Reed takes his friends-including Cpt. T'Pol-and meeting Trip Tucker there. This was in one of the books of "Rise of the Federation". My brother's Naval ship, the USE Savannah AOR-4 was broken down and used as a reef. In 1970, I went aboard her after she pulled into the Savannah harbour. Why not have a starship named after her?
Virginia Connor voyager also became a museum after being decommissioned
wrath of khan ... it became a planet ... unstable ... but a planet ... or one traveled in time and recovered a whale and crashed in san fran bay ... pretty much all old starfleet ships end up becommming destroyed after being taken or stolen by old starfleet people.
picards first command ... ferengi stole it ... got blown up by riker ... the ds9 runabout .. became worfs personal shuttle ... yup stolen and blown up defending the area .. then replaced with the better version with cloak ..
STARFLEET ships dont get old they get stolen by old starfleet captains and admirals ... showing kids that if you really want something you can steal it and you are fine ... kind of bullshit
Actually there is one more option, and we have been told of two examples...museums! Both Enterprise NX-01 and the Voyager (in an alternate future) shared this fate. Oh, and the inspirational end statement you are looking for is, "And these ships, at the end of their life shall be reborn as something much more mundane as most likely their materials are no longer high grade enough to do onto modern ships, and will become the new washing machines and doorknobs of the Federation."
Wait a minute...
at least the starship materials are much better preserved in the vacuum of space, as opposed to being on Earth. I imagine recycling would be the most cost effective solution in a properly managed Starfleet salvage yard, material might even be freely given to those who should want it, perhaps even with subsides to help manufacture the scrap into however is most practical for a salvager. because they would be so well preserved, perhaps even the vast majority of waste is temporary, only waiting as long as it takes to sort and salvage. Production of new materials will only be for critical construction.
@@xymaryai8283 Indeed. Honestly, if we're at the point where ships are gutted and left in a graveyard, you may as well melt the metals involved and make something new out of 'em.
Honestly, would make a good case for an orbital vehicle grave yard. "See that there Shelby Cobra floating by the ISS? Bring it down here, I wanna restore it."
There was also that one TNG episode were a mothballed Constellation class was used to help in war games.
USS Stargazer - 40271-110
@@jffweb4380 no, the ship in "Peak Performance" was the USS Hathaway (NCC-2593).
In my headcanon I imagined another destination for the ships that are considered outdated: they are sent to civilizations that recently joined the Federation and do not have their own fleet, and they would be dedicated to light tasks, such as commercial transport or border surveillance. Non-Starfleet but highly qualified personnel from the species were allowed to work on them, in order to learn about the operation of an advanced spacecraft, while at the same time being allowed to modify the craft to suit their needs and experiment with your own particular technology. In the hands of a group of motivated engineers, these ships would be refit until they were considered prototypes of new classes. Thus Starfleet would benefit from a different perspective and fresh ideas.
Only one problem with that theory:
The Prime Directive REQUIRES that a civilization have warp capability...you *kinda* need your own starships for that...
😅😅😅😅
@@christopheralthouse6378 I mean civilizations that already own some spaceships, at the level of the Phoenix or the NX class, but still do not have the capacity to build an entire fleet.
@@Nx57ytre Yeah that was always my thought - the warp capable and advanced 'enough' worlds could request some of the 'mothball' fleet or even the 'junkyard' ships for a base for their own fleets to so they can run with the big dogs as it were. I mean they may be warp capable and they may even have ships of their own, but it's like how the humble JEEP ended up being sent literally everywhere. Or how our fighter jets are basically sold outright or loaned or simply the blueprints and frames are sent to other allies to build their own defense. Why reinvent the wheel? If I was a newly joined member world, I'd sure as hell request some old ships to help a) get my world's ships up to snuff with the rest of the Federation b) it's recycling and saving resources , c) given that my world's people will be possibly serving on other Federation ships - I'd want them to feel comfortable with them. So yeah... I can entirely see that as an option - especially for worlds that are kinda on the edges of UFP borders that don't see a ton of action so a bunch of old Mirandas or Excelsiors or others would be more than enough to have a presence but wouldn't 'cost' that much to deploy
Excellent explanation. I could see Starfleet removing all the weapons and even the military grade warp core. But the space frame should be useful for many other friendly planets.
I like this idea. However it seems a bit redundant considering all federation member worlds enjoy the benefit of having full access to starfleet.
I'm sure some ships where used for target practice/weapons testing, or handed over to the SCE for analysis on how there spaceframes and components held up to years of service. Hell, maybe some where fitted with experimental tech to test, why build and crew a new ship when an old one will do? I could even see a situation where it's not practical to build a space station to serve the needs of a far of colony, but an old hulk will do, just park it on orbit and use it as storage or a sensor platform, and to the untrained eye it looks like your planet is protected by a starship. The possibilities are endless.
SINKEX for damage study is the best way to farewell a ship.
concerning far colonies, a station is built with specialization in mind rather than all-rounder approach of science vessels.
if a colony receives trading vessels often enough, trading outpost is built.
if its a science outpost, more larger sensors or dedicated labs is the basis.
if the planet has military value and significant risk, an armed starbase is built and it gets put into the routes where patrol ships will "regularly" visit.
"untrained eye" must be a way of describing races that just acquired warp technology while refusing membership, because most pirates/other races would have intel on based on ship silhouettes. even if you refit a ship to the bleeeding edge, there's only so much space for a reactor/power reserves. you can easily extrapolate a ship's potential power for weapons/shields/propulsion.
starbases meanwhile while generic shaped most of time tend to pack the latest defensive weaponry at the point of construction and its doesnt have to worry about propulsion. sure, the evasive maneuver is lost but armed starbases have a larger reactor/reserves to dump towards shields and weapons. due to starbases size, shutting off life support for extra juice is less risky than starships.
due to this armed starbases is either attacked with long range bombardments, or infiltration(either by spies or a commandos teams deployed using pods designed to bypass shields and cut through hull. or else you need a large fleet just like Deep Space Nine showed.
The Miranda I can see getting all manner of different civillian applications by the 25th Century. She was ubiquitous in Starfleet. I can see that.
@@eisenklad You're thinking of DS9, a pretty big station. There were much smaller ones. I recall one with only two crew members, possibly close to the Klingon border. I think it was in a TNG episode
@@limiv5272 i'm thinking of more than DS9. games, movies, novels.
there was one novel that took place in TOS-Star trek 1-3 that used a constituiton saucer and another ship's secondary hull and welded them together for use as a planetary colony defender. but it suffered major power
those station you mention is probably small listening post(given how klingons were on brink of civil war), meant to be small and as early warning.
the idea is to not have a warp field that can be detected by other ships which a Runabout or deep space shuttle would give off... much less a small oberth or other defunct ships.
if these small stations are placed near planets, its not to defend the planet/sector. its to mask the station with the planets magnetic field
Four hours after the video recording ends: "Starships certainly do stop being used."
That's depressing on a whole different level. Short and painful in aftertaste.
*eventually...ish*
You forgot about one of the most infamous incidences where a cadet had died during a training mission... cadet engineer Peter Preston, the nephew of the legendary Montgomery Scott, chief engineer of the enterprise. Cadet Preston, who during a radioactive warp core coolant leak that occurred after a surprise attack, despite only being a cadet, instead of evacuating with the other training cadets onboard, chose to remain at his post in engineering and actively remained working, successfully reversing that leak. His personal contributions had made a significant impact upon preventing the ship’s eminent destruction but consequently resulted in the unfortunate loss of his own life.
Star Trek II - The Wrath of Kahn (1982)
th-cam.com/video/Kk8Plk82Gz4/w-d-xo.html
he stayed at his post, when the other cadets ran.
So, a big reason these ships get used for so long is that, well, let's be honest, it's not hard to refit them in most ways. They're relatively modular, and in all honesty, they're basically small city-ships, or at the very least, great big flying skyscrapers. You don't tear down a skyscraper every time you want to upgrade the HVAC... most of the time. Want better wiring? Replace the wiring. Want to shore up the building to make it stronger? Shore up the building to make it stronger.
So it goes with starfleet vessels. As for when they pass their prime, let's look at naval vessels. The Navy began to require that basically everything be a double-hulled vessel. This lead to a lot of decommissionings of vessels, including some vessels that were brand new off the line, mainly because the amount of refit work that would have gone into making single-hulled ships into double-hulled ones was simply not possible without seriously compromising the rest of the structure. So it goes with Starfleet as well, with polarized-hull vessels being decommissioned for being just... not worth saving, and with older vessels being decommissioned after they discovered that warp travel could cause catastrophic damage to subspace without powerful streamlining. In the latter case, some older ships could be maintained, as the warp speed limit for non-streamlined vessels could be circumvented in the case of an emergency, and even without that, Warp 5 would still get you to and from a lot of more local systems in terms of transport and otherwise. All of which is to say, there was a push to replace older vessels, but they could be brought out of mothballs in the case of a major emergency, such as an invasion from the Gamma quadrant, but by the time the late 24th came around, a large fleet of newer ships could be mobilized when the need arose, with the Curiosity, and then then Inquiry class both being able to replace the aging fleet.
Last time i was this early to a video, the Enterprise was the closest ship in the quadrant.
that could be any poin in time and space.
Depending on time-travel shenanigans, the Enterprise could also be the _Only_ Starfleet vessel in the quadrant...
7:25 - AKA Explaining the Sector 001 fleet and their registries.
All those boats look more like something from the time of the Enterprise-C then the Enterprise-E, anyways, decommissioned because their time was over and the grand age of exploration and peace shown by the Galaxy-Class had begun.
Cue the Borg and Wolf 359, then the Dominion and Starfleet gets all the First Contact boats back in service because they are, almost literally, soiling their undergarments.
It also makes sense that they would be close to core systems. If you have an old ship that is slower (even after warp core refits) it can't travel as far from a central location.
Sector 001...so specieist. Human-centric...
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m The fleet seen in First Contact. If that was a joke, it wasn't funny.
Never been a Star Trek fan but a friend got me into STO a few weeks ago and I'm pretty hooked on the ship combat. And I gotta say as a person who often enjoys watching history videos about warships and feels genuine sorrow when well served ships get scrapped, this is kinda refreshing in a bittersweet way. The ships serve WELL past what they would in the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries through countless refits and re-purposing it which in of itself is incredibly heartwarming. Though on the flip side of that coin I just...don't understand why they don't properly scrap the ships or repurpose their hulls for something else. I mean that's a lot of material going to waste just being left adrift in space for so long and I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to have a dedicated yard for ship breaking, which itself would be pretty big business.
Just wanted to throw this out there. The first Defiant was an NX registry. The second Defiant (The Sao Paulo) was a USS registry. So it was still different.
NCC-75633.
there was also the TOS era Defiant
@@Wooper160atThePondI’d smash
I loved the ending! It's so much like the present day, when you look at certain navel vessels that have outlived their useful lives. For example the USS Enterprise CV-65, soon to be replaced by the the new Enterprise, CV-80.
Everything has it's time and place of service, but at the end of the day needs to be replaced because technology, like life moves on. The old ship has the memories but the new ship has the possibilities.
That ending was good ,pure gold.
Yup!
"Every ship will be able to continue to contribute to the fleet even after being decommissioned. Eventually even the very body of the ship itself can be recycled and reincarnated as a later, more advanced class of ship."
There, I made it positive for you.
Probably your funniest video yet. Nice work! Great narrative at the end.
1:28 The Ahwanhee shouldn't be up on that list as it was salvaged after the battle of Wolf 359 and went on to be a part of the blockade off Starfleet ships between the Romulan-Klingon border during the Klingon Civil War in early 2368.
www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm
www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359-other.htm
www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/okuda359.htm
If you haven’t seen these already, they’re pretty detailed.
It's also been reported that USS Hood and USS Victory survived Wolf 359 and arguably Victory has the best claim (considering we first see it after the battle)
I wouldn't expect a Starship Captain to go through ships like iphones. Something that massive using that much resources needs to be made to last and have upgrades. Like a house. I wouldn't like having to buy a new house every year because hyper consumerism is hip and all... lol
USS Hathaway was a prime example of this. Which was reactivated not long after its TNG appearance to fight the Dominion. You could see she was mothballed for a long time and rendered warp inactive with no operational weapons. It was one of my favorite episodes. I love how Riker loved the ship despite the state it was in. Much like we would consider a rusted, abandoned classic car a "nice car" despite the condition its in. Riker:Shes perfect. But not really. His reaction to Hathaway despite her age and condition was priceless. And I caught myself pulling a Worf when I salvaged an old car. I needed a piece of wire to start an old car once. And where do I get the wire? Yanked from under the dash. 🤣 Where do we find the optic cable? Worf: Reaches up, yanks a bunch from the ceiling. "Anywhere". Also priceless. 🤣
I've always thought that Starfleet would give smaller member worlds without a standing defence fleet decommissioned ships for intersystem patrol and defence. Say the scores of decommissioned Miranda classes that didn't become transports were derated and given to member worlds to help them defend their area of space, not just relying on a Federation ship being in the area. Space is big.
The US Coast Guard picked up a couple WW2 Destroyers or Destroyer-Escorts this way in the 1960's, as I recall.
I can see this being the fate of many California-class ships when Starfleet runs out of 'lightly-used' Mirandas! :D
I actually seem to remember that Starfleet would use some of these ships for training new personnel
You meen this from Deep Space Nine The valiant:
JAKE: So this was a training ship. Like the other one, the, er, the Republic.
COLLINS: Not quite. The Republic's an old ship. I don't think she's left the Terran system in fifty years. The Valiant's a state of the art warship.
Dan 23 the Republic is a Connie as far as I can remember.
@@Amanda_Harper I don't know.
In canon no one on screen said what class of ship it.
The Royal Navy do that, HMS Bristol is permanently moored up at Portsmouth as a training vessel.
Starfleet never truly de-commissions their old ships. They sit in storage, or just receive refits. Starfleet even had an old Consititution Refit at the Battle of Wolf 359 against the Borg.
My 2003 Ford Taurus has about as much of a chance at Wolf 359
I think a 1995 Ford Taurus might fare better. They're harder to kill.
Although, a disruptor blast targeted at the relay box near the front of the hood would likely do it in.
Surf Wisely.
My 93 Taurus wouldn't have made it to the battle, damn AXOD
@@charliekeene2003 DAMAGE REPORT?
Sir, the Vulcan is in great shape-
OUR SCIENCE OFFICER?
No, sir. He's dead. But the Vulcan engine is still kicking.
HOW ABOUT THE TRANSAXLE?
How do you think it's doing, sir?
*BANGS CONSOLE* DAMN IT!
Wolf 359 was about numbers. (actually it was about production costs) but whilst the Enterprise had relayed thier encounter in the Delta Quadrant to Starfleet, they had yet to formulate an actual defense. Or know anything concrete about the Borg. Hindsight they developed the Defiant, Intrepid and Akira classes after 359 ( and better production budget ) till then they reasonably figured to throw everything at the solitary cube. I feel for the poor sod in the chair of the connie.
I also like Worf's First Contact order "Prepare for Ramming Speed!" I can see Picards after action report as acting Admiral. "Mr Worf. Logs report you gave the order to ram the Cube with the Defiant"
"yes sir."
"mm yes well I like your tenacity. I might try it myself one day "
" Sir?"
" A joke Mr Worf"
SCIMITAR IMPACT
You got a wicked sense of humor. Thank you!
Just found this channel and excellent videos....love me some Trek!
For the Enterprise-A, there's an additional complication: the possibility that she was decommissioned for reasons of Starfleet politics. The opening of Generations had a very strong sense of a "passing the torch" PR campaign going on. Given the speculation that the E-A wasn't a new ship but an existing one (perhaps finishing refit) that had been redesignated as the Enterprise-A as a show of appreciation to Kirk & crew in the wake of the whale probe incident, it is possible its decommissioning was mainly done to boot Kirk off it, let one of the new "queens of the fleet" take the prestigious name, and recommission the former E-A back with its old designation, allowing it several more decades of service.
It's entirely possible that (one of) the Constitution-refit ship(s) that were part of the wreckage of the Wolf 359 fleet destroyed by the Borg had, at one time, been the Enterprise -A.
There's beta-canon that following the initial Khitomer Accords, the fleet arraignment of Starfleet was reconfigured, similar to the Washington Naval Treaty of the interwar years in our own history. This pushed the Connie out the door as THE front-line cruiser, allowing for the Excelsior-class to take over those mission profiles.
There were two connies at wolf 359, but were unnamed.
@@Barbariandisks Thus the lack of definitives and the use of all the qualifiers like "it is possible".
In the novelisation of Star Trek 6, the Enterprise A was slated to be decommissioned and transferred to a Federation member's PDF for defence and policing purposes.
As I always say, save as PDF 😁
Thank-you for covering the most little known topic in Star Fleet. I have waited forever for anyone to discuss Star Fleets eventual stance on Decommissioning Star Ships due to the Federations Policies non-proliferation of Warp Technology.
I so very much appreciate the optimism, Ric!
"It's heartening to know that, even after a ship has passed its prime and slowly been relegated to increasingly lighter duty, its eventual fate will be to have all its parts re-used and recycled, becoming part of a thousand other, new ships that will continue to serve and promote the causes Starfleet stands for. So long as Starfleet itself exists, their vessels never truly 'die' completely."
FTFY
Don't forget museum ships. Starfleet does have a museum that houses the NX-01 and a Constitution that apparently didn't undergo refit in the 2270's
Great video! It truly amazes me what both the fans and the folks over at paramount came up with over the years. So much lore and back story to explain away the old ships used on TNG/DS9 when the actual reason was they were the only ship models they had access to due to budget and the limited CGI available at the time.
Great video! Love your sense of humor!
"Jim, the Enterprise is 20 years old, we feel her day is done."
I was thinking about that when I watched that scene. The Enterprise itself is well over 20 years old and even if he was talking about after it was refitted in 2271, basically turning the Enterprise into a brand new vessel, she would have been younger.
By the time admiral morrow said this it was already 40 years old.
@@steffenronsch8881 who is admiral Morrow's twin? 2 morrow. 🥁
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m No please his. Name is yesterday
And his sister name was tolate mother name was layered. Father name was gone
At the time of “Picard” all ships are mothballed except for one class.
At the time of "Pukard" Star Trek was decommissioned and haul off like scrap
Ah yes, Starfleet ships now consist of one class that looks like a modern air superiority jet in space.
Fuck that series and STD. Just garbage!
The USS Ctrl-C
That was the "Cut and Paste" Class starship.
Even in the 2270's, I would gladly serve on an Excelsior class starship. There is a reason this design was the backbone of Starfleet for close to a century...
Because of its upgradability (or if you look for real world reasons budget)
You do good work, C.I. and I appreciate that. Thank you for all you do! =D
Our modern military ships have a life span on average of 50 years. With the way ships are being built now with a modular design and the concept of being upgraded baked in, that is likely to be extended to an even longer life span. So this is very believable.
I find this subject very interesting and wish we had more canon info.
Mainly carriers I think. But they may soon (prolly decades) be obsolete due to weapons advancements making them huge/easy targets. I forsee in the future smaller/faster ships possibly even unmanned drone type armed naval platforms carrying a small contingent of drone attack aircraft.
Very true. The United Kingdom is building some new frigates at the moment and the design has a larger power generating capacity than our Air Defence Destroyers, along with larger gas turbines the same size we put in our new Carriers, the whole resoning being upgrades in future and also space mission modules that may require more power.
Starships still are ships and sooner or later they must be allowed to retire and die peacefully letting their legacy to go forward were no human has gone before.
Very good video. Interesting tidbits. Thank you... 😌
WoW. Very detailed video. Nice work.
Personally i always had the idea that some of the older star ships are used as dumping grounds for some of the less useful people, like the lazy guy at work who doesn't do anything but smoke weed out back, those people have to pull their weight and be given some job that won't get people killed so i suspect that some of the old ships that haven't been refitted or updated as much are given non essential duties that still need doing, nothing like partoling or delivering medicine, but say bring standard shipments of food to say a colony as reserves or raw materials to a colony for eventual expansion in about a year or so, things that are not urgent or needed badly are given to the screw ups to do because if they do screw up then there is time to fix it and it won't cause a major incident, i actually though it would make a good comedy series if it was a crew of say an older ship like an old constellation class that still ran on the 23rd century lcars and was held together with string and good intentions. It could be funny
So you mean where the people from "Lower Deck" end up.
Spacedock did mention how the California-class looked basically like one of those kitbashed background ships that perform essential-but-non-urgent day-to-day work long past their retirement date...
Sounds like more genuine Trek than we've seen lately. I usually avoid cynnicism, but hey. I can every so often.
Goodjob in pointing out that the admirality has some weird policy of using old ships aa their flagship, while the intrepid captains use the most advanced ships.
To be fair in the world wars the Royal navy admiral offen used the older ships as there flagships.
Offen because those were the ships they commanding before so they knew what they could do.
Well, Admirals usually fly desks not ships, so they're not on the frontlines and therefore don't need top of the line ships anymore. Makes a lot more sense for the people deep in space to have the better vessels than someone who sits at a desk all day
The Excelsior Class reminds me of the 737, 737 Max 8, 747, 747-8, 777, 777-8 and 777-9 aircrafts they’ve been around for a long time because people love the designs and keep on tweaking the designs to keep them in service like changing the interior and basically modernizing them with new technologies, like winglet at the ends of the wings, chevrons at the back of the engines, composite materials for the hull, touch screens for the cockpits and passenger seating.
That was funny at the end. Thanks I needed the laugh.
that ending.
Its... Starfleet "Wessels!!" :D
Love this channel!!
This one gave me a nice laugh at the end. Well done.
After thinking about it, the Defiant is the only ship I can think of that, when destroyed, was replaced by the same class of ship. It also was renamed after having been given a different title, so that's also unique. Both of these things could contribute to it being an exception to the alphabet rule.
According to some sources, this is also true for the Enterprise NCC-1701-A.
Yes the enterprise a was renamed as well. It was originally the Yorktown iirc
So....basically, the time would come where the Enterprise would be hauled away as....garbage! I can imagine the Klingons making that date a national Holiday for them. 😪
Wateringman They called it “Get Punched in the Face By A Pissed Off Scotsman Day”
I grew up on Star Trek TOS. And when you start watching TNG and see all the ammentities and bells and whistles the new starships have, its pretty overwhelming
I LIKE HOW YOU ENDED THE VIDEO . IT MADE SMILE , AND LAUGH .
This is one of the things I found annoying in the final episode of Star Trek: Picard, other than how lazy and cut-and-paste the fleet looked in the final episode but also where the heck were the older ships and when did they make a hundred of these new ships all the sudden?
ya, I expected a Miranda at least, those things will still be finding their way into combat around 2570... sure they will be as explody as the Oberth then but whatever
Current Star Trek is dumb.
One thing not mentioned: decades of exposure to the hostile environment of outer space, along with the radiation and energies associated with warp technology, will eventually result in a starship’s spaceframe becoming too unstable for sustained warp flight. This is akin to 20th-century nuclear-powered warships, whose superstructure becomes too brittle due to years of exposure to the radiation continually generated by its power plant.
PhantomObserver What!!!!! A carriers superstructure is protected FROM the radiation because of shielding and due to the fact that there’s a crew aboard. The superstructure is more likely to weaken due to the stresses of active service and its exposure to sea water.
That's not true, if that were the case there would have been massive accidents. And the US Navy's record when dealing with their nuclear submarines and carriers is 0 incidents.
I always get a kick out of the future described as the past in Star Trek documentaries.
As your ending (and last video) was emblematic of... I hope we all start feeling better soon. Even under our new normal.
Instead of "dump into space" how about "set free to drift among the stars"
Set them free. The AI is strong and the ship is sentient. Free the ships
I can’t remember if it was a novel or something else, it was implied that the USS Lakota was actually the Enterprise-B
The same studio model was used for both, so it might be that.
Yep, the same studio Excelsior/ Ent B model. It was hauled out of storage, stripped, repainted and renamed. It was eventually auctioned off as the Lakota.
That's a lot of firepower for an Excelsior class starship 8)
LOVE IT RICK
"Eventually it will die"
Might need to update this for legacy ships. Thank you, Terry M, for season 3 of picard and showing us that ships that made a huge impact are preserved at the fleet museum ready to be called back into active service in case of emergency.
Rick, no matter how you try, there's no real 'good way' to explain when old ships just fade away.
They step back for the next generation to take to the stars.
Every starship deserves a warrior's death. Not to be scrapped and cannibalized.
@@b-chroniumproductions3177 Yeah but what to do with old obsolete ships when there isn't a war on?
@@b-chroniumproductions3177 ..or turned into Washing Machines.
Interphase.
The Defiant just faded away (though it wasn't that old)
I don’t think you can really use the DIS version of the Constitution as some sort of intermediate step in the evolution of the class between TOS and the movies. The DIS version is almost 100 meters longer for a start.
7:21 Id love to know the story of how that K’tinga got to be in a Federation surplus yard!
not only is the discoprise out of place it is between the cage and tos not a transition to the movie era. The unused 1970s phase II version might be a transition though unnecessary. But I'd like to believe some constitutions had the phase ii design.
lucasbachmann Absolutely, the only difference between The Cage and TOS should the nacelle spires, bridge dome and deflector. No stupid 25% upscale for a few years, then back then another refit!
One of the last refit Constitution class was delivered to Bajor as a gift. Used for the building on Bajor but still have the starship plate on the building.
Thank you for the great video. You forgot to mention some ships who
made great contributions to Starfleet were kept as Museum Ships.
So it's not sold to some Ferengi with cloaking systems still intact and just needing to be refitted with disruptors bought on the open market?
BTW those Birds of Prey would've been a massive boon to a less advanced species, reverse engineer the ships and then build your own copies (perhaps with enough differences so that the Klingons don't get annoyed and those annoyed with the Klingons don't open fire on sight).
And also go shopping at the various weapons markets that do exist in the Alpha Quadrant, not only for weapons but any other useful tech.
Imagine a species in the TNG era that had the tech of NX- Enterprise Starfleet, they could leapfrog centuries and be only slightly behind the state of the art with ship equivalents that could still take on a Galaxy class in a ambush.
How about some being used as target dummies, test beds for new technology, or being used to test survivability after damage, as has been done with U.S. Navy vessels?
We've seen some of this! There was an episode where the USS Hathaway was ready to be decommissioned, so they stripped out a bunch of parts... and then pitted her against the Enterprise-D in wargames. And there was an episode where the USS Pegasus was used (illegally) to test a cloaking device. They mentioned that it was a common class of ship to test new techs on, even though it was a very old and small class.
Oberth Class first seen in Star Trek 3. USS Grissom Experimental Transporters and Sensors seeing the cloaked Bird Of Prey KVort Class I believe remember target engine only cause he wanted prisoners.
Hahahaha, great ending! You're the best!
Real world warships have another fairly common "retirement" path where they're partially stripped and sold to another nation where they get refitted and continue to serve under a new name, usually until they fall apart from old age and shoddy upkeep or get wrecked in some petty conflict. Selling old ships is less common these days than, say, the 1900s but it still goes on.
Russian vessels for example. Like China's first aircraft carrier (Liaoning) is actually a refitted Russian carrier (Varyag)
I imagine that a number Starfleet spacecraft after being decommissioned are preserved at museums which I imagine is what happened to the Enterprise-A.
No no no as we don't know what really happened to her
The Enterprise-A was decommissioned after the events of the sixth movie, with the B commissioned a few months later... at least according to the star trek wiki anyways
Nope
I always felt i was cheated out of seeing Wesley in an old constitution class starship during his training.
Not seeing Wesley in a scene was always a blessing.
Very interesting video
Lovely ending to a great video.
I don't know if this is Canon, but in some of the novels, old Starships are sold as Freighters and for other private craft use once they are stripped of their military electronics and weapons.
Lore from the FASA, LUG, and Decipher Star Trek RPGs usually featured a lot of starships - many, many more ships and classes and models and variants than ever seen or mentioned in "official" sources - because starship combat was usually an important part of these games. They portrayed a Federation overflowing with corporate and civilian starships (terraformers, transports, ferries, freighters, haulers, liners, couriers, racers, yachts, etc). Starfleet (with perhaps a Starfleet/Federation Merchant Marine corps/auxilliary) is just not big enough to handle all the logistical movements caused and needed by hundreds of thriving worlds.
Would have loved to see an episode, heck even a new sub series just showing the clean up and salvage operation after the battle of Wolf 359. Whopping 39 ships.
Anarchy Antz yes to this!!!! That was a lot of space junk just chillin in the void, just being in the way when you’re warping thru the neighborhood.
@@deniseherud Yeah, don't you just hate it as well when you are busy cruising through at Warp 6.1 and suddenly some Red Shirt splats against your viewing screen like a bug against your windshield from a space battle. Klingon's on the Starboard bow, scrape em Jim!
The last minute is literally epic LOL
There's a TNG book where an old Constitution class ship was decommissioned,all sensitive equipment,weapons and warp drive removed. It was then sold to highest bidder. It was bought and refitted by a group of do good pirates close to the Romulan border. They refitted the weapons,warp drive and even got their hands on a Romulan cloaking device.
Why am I watching this like it's a real thing 😂😂😂😂😂.
Weren't some ships, I seem to recall the Oberth class specifically, given to civilian scientific organizations after their service lives were up? I cant help but think that even a disarmed Constitution class might be VERY useful to colonists or other such groups.
Also one note...
Riker is a really, REALLY good bluffer.
He just showed up with a bunch of fresh ships of a single class probably scrounged up from some backwater shipyard and led this fleet at max warp to Picard's location, and hoped full well the Romulans wouldn't notice the ships didn't even have their registry numbers yet. And these ships are SMOL. We're talking Constitution Refit size.
And Riker managed to make it work.
The ending was ON POINT XD