As a percussionist growing up, who likes to write highly syncopated and harmonically dense music, I'm with you 110% on the importance of rhythmic accuracy and available articulations over having the perfect timbre. Yes, BBC I think sounded the warmest and lushest, but at the expense many times of sounding rather mushy - rhythms completely lost and some articulations sticking out randomly in ways they shouldn't. VSL sounds a little thinner but I love that it sounds like what you expect when writing - it's predictable and consistent in that way. For fast runs and incredibly syncopated shorts across multiple sections, I'd take VSL any day over the rest for those reasons - I'd rather hear every note that I write than have it all turn to soup. Plus the fast it loads quickly, can't be mad at that! P.S. Love your writing, examples #2 & #3 are fantastic!
Thank you, Alex, this was a very useful "tour" of these sound libraries. As a Finale user who has mostly been composing for acoustic instruments, I have not investigated nor invested much in digital sound reproduction, but I have been frustrated by the inaccessibility of such software for "hands on" user experience. Through your well-curated selections, I feel I can safely say that the Synchron Prime results were, overall, the most consistently impressive.
What I had been hoping for in the interim between version 3 and version 4 was that Arne Wallander had done something similar to StaffPad and gotten with one of the major sound library developers and made a bespoke, reasonably priced turnkey “advanced” library that would work only with NP. I guess this a reasonable compromise. Since I am a brass player, the brass sounds are most important to me. Also, it would be nice for a jazz/big band library to be available for use with NP4.
I like how each of the library templates in NotePerformer 4 playback realistically. I didn’t even know that the previous versions of NotePerformer had modeling effects rather than actual samples. Unfortunately, for me, I can’t afford to purchase NotePerformer 4 along with Sibelius, Dorico, or Finale. Instead, I’m using MuseScore 4, with it’s free realistic Muse Sounds library, and the playback sounds amazing and almost similar to the NotePerformer 4 library templates.
Holy cow, I think CSS strings sounded clearly the best. I have to get that one next. Synchron was smoother but less believable. I agree with you that most libraries are not ready to be used in conjunction with notation software for general use. I rely on Notion on iPad, which used to have a broader range of articulations than most sample libraries. The sound quality was relatively low. But you could be sure that if your composition worked there, it would work with real instruments. The new version of Notion has a vastly better interface but a much more limited set of articulations (plus it’s buggy as heck). I can no longer count on it to represent the composition well, sadly. I hope they fix that over time.
I essentially have the same libraries to choose from as you. I have had the most luck combining BBCSO and Berklee. It has made using Dorico a lot more pleasant, but at present, it just doesn’t sound as good as StaffPad. I hope to see improvements in the future, but I think the next round is going to focus on enabling more libraries. So we are likely going to have a long wait before any drastic improvements are made.
I haven't tried mixing libraries yet. I'm just not sure it's worth all of the hassle, at least not yet. Plus having to spend extra money on each template...
I use Staffpad. I agree; the playback is much better in it. With the recent introduction of 3rd party libraries to Muse Sounds at extremely affordable prices ($15 per section) I am hoping Dorico will incorporate the option of using the Muse sound engine within it as an add on. Like Note Performer. I prefer the workflow on Dorico to Musescore, but prefer the playback on Musescore. So, this is annoying ....
Wow very interesting. I thought VSL was the clearest and best balanced. It was truer to the score markings imo. Sonically I liked CSS the best. It was fuller and had more presence. I also noticed the horns don't sound as 'phased' with VSL either as with the other libraries. I have BBCSO Pro, CineStrings but can't use it yet until he updates the engine. I'm really considering pulling the trigger on VSL Prime and use it in conjuction with BBCSO and possibly CineStrings depending on how those work.
@@AlexHeppelmann Maybe this is oversimplified, but I wonder if a mastering plugin on the master bus of Dorico would make it sound fuller? I'm clearly not an engineer so may be a dumb idea.
Depends on the price range you're looking at... I really like the Simple Sam Signature Grand, which is really affordable. The VSL Yamaha CFX blends really well with orchestra, but it's expensive in comparison.
Thank you for this very helpful demo video! Were there any MIDI offset/delay issues when using any of these libraries with NP4? It doesn't seem like it, but I was just wondering. Thank you!
what are your thoughts for Iconica sections & players? i'm starting to learn how uses in cubase, it seems very full and one nice starting point for me as a begginer composer, I haven't buy noteperformer yet, it sounds interesting that i can see how integrate both. I also have dorico, and i like to work more in notation software than the DAW itself, maybe this can be a solution for working and after export midis to cubase for details.
@@AlexHeppelmann Is quite similar to Orchestral Tools Berln Series IMO because also is developed by himselves together with steinberg at Funkhaus Berlin Stage similar to Telddex i think, I would like if you check it, even they have an 30 days trial version.
Hi, Alex. Thanks for the comprehensive tutorial. I listened to your examples and before your comments I was making an opinion by ear. It turned out that 90% of my opinions were the same as yours. However, it still doesn't allow me to choose one or more libraries to use with Noteperformer 4, which frustrates me. I was hoping to be able to put together a go-to solution for orchestra with Dorico + Noterperformer 4, but that didn't happen. I have a question: how do you set the divisi in Dorico and have the NP play it correctly? Is it just text or is it a custom articulation or something else?
I understand that it was just released but like...didn't Noteperformer 3.2 come out 5 years ago? Noteperformer 4 still sounds like a beta version of what's to come. What happened?
I think others may be able to answer that better than me -- i think the developer felt that he couldn't improve the sound any more, hence the shift towards working with other libraries.
Because Noteformer is essentially a playback compiler.Recognizing the score notation and prossessing the correct sample with a proper dynamic is the most valueble aspect. Making symphonic samples is out of a small team work.
How would you rate e.g. Noteperformer with VSL Prime compared to the VSL Prime Playback Template? Would you rate Noteperformer much better? (I'm not quite sure having compared this with my ears.)
I think VSL in NP works a little better. Plus I like how NP handles divisi. That stood out as very problematic with the regular Prime template in Dorico.
I’m a little confused as to what the new version of noteperformer does. Does it just trigger the correct articulation from a given library whenever written into the score? Dorico already supported this, though you had to make your own expression map :-/
Fair question... you'd essentially be buying expression maps / playback templates without having to do any work. There are some fairly complex things that NP does, like how it handles divisi, so all of that gets incorporated into these templates
I assume some kind of filter, but I'm not sure. I know Noteperformer uses filtering for con sordino. And I didn't mention in my video, but for any instrument that's in the score but not in the library, Noteperformer will just use their own sounds (like piano in my second example).
full 2023,... and at this point I am very disappointed with all the original sound libraries of developers of score editors,... I even suppose that there must be pressure from the manufacturers of prestigious libraries, against this, for economic reasons, etc. .....it is very difficult to work like this,,,when one knows how it should sound approaching reality,....so I understand you....we will wait 50 more years
Privet friends... Hi, this is my version of my Star Wars Medley for Concert Band. I used NotePerformer 4.5.0 powered by Dorico 5 Pro. In my opinion, NotePerformer has far more capabilities than credited for, one must understand sound enginering. Take a listen: th-cam.com/video/nfOS3N8RsJY/w-d-xo.html До свидания
Privet friends... You are not really demonstrating NotePerformer. I personally use it a lot and is sounding much better than what you demonstrated here. Any VST can sound quite authentic if worked on under hood. До свидания
A really valuable demonstration, well organized to be of great help to anyone considering VI purchase(s). Many thanks, Alex!
I think Synchron Prime sounded rather good.
Excellent compositions and orchestrations.
As a percussionist growing up, who likes to write highly syncopated and harmonically dense music, I'm with you 110% on the importance of rhythmic accuracy and available articulations over having the perfect timbre. Yes, BBC I think sounded the warmest and lushest, but at the expense many times of sounding rather mushy - rhythms completely lost and some articulations sticking out randomly in ways they shouldn't. VSL sounds a little thinner but I love that it sounds like what you expect when writing - it's predictable and consistent in that way. For fast runs and incredibly syncopated shorts across multiple sections, I'd take VSL any day over the rest for those reasons - I'd rather hear every note that I write than have it all turn to soup. Plus the fast it loads quickly, can't be mad at that!
P.S. Love your writing, examples #2 & #3 are fantastic!
Thank you, Alex, this was a very useful "tour" of these sound libraries. As a Finale user who has mostly been composing for acoustic instruments, I have not investigated nor invested much in digital sound reproduction, but I have been frustrated by the inaccessibility of such software for "hands on" user experience. Through your well-curated selections, I feel I can safely say that the Synchron Prime results were, overall, the most consistently impressive.
What I had been hoping for in the interim between version 3 and version 4 was that Arne Wallander had done something similar to StaffPad and gotten with one of the major sound library developers and made a bespoke, reasonably priced turnkey “advanced” library that would work only with NP. I guess this a reasonable compromise. Since I am a brass player, the brass sounds are most important to me. Also, it would be nice for a jazz/big band library to be available for use with NP4.
great video, thanks for all the time you put into this and great composition!
My pleasure!
Thanks for the demonstration. Great music!
I like how each of the library templates in NotePerformer 4 playback realistically. I didn’t even know that the previous versions of NotePerformer had modeling effects rather than actual samples. Unfortunately, for me, I can’t afford to purchase NotePerformer 4 along with Sibelius, Dorico, or Finale. Instead, I’m using MuseScore 4, with it’s free realistic Muse Sounds library, and the playback sounds amazing and almost similar to the NotePerformer 4 library templates.
Yeah the costs certainly do build up -- the new musescore sounds like a great option!
Thank you for your demonstration. I have question: Will this also working with Sibelius Ultimate?
Excellent composition!
Holy cow, I think CSS strings sounded clearly the best. I have to get that one next. Synchron was smoother but less believable.
I agree with you that most libraries are not ready to be used in conjunction with notation software for general use. I rely on Notion on iPad, which used to have a broader range of articulations than most sample libraries. The sound quality was relatively low. But you could be sure that if your composition worked there, it would work with real instruments. The new version of Notion has a vastly better interface but a much more limited set of articulations (plus it’s buggy as heck). I can no longer count on it to represent the composition well, sadly. I hope they fix that over time.
Apparently Wallander weren't done with their own sounds after all, as they just released 4.1 with more updates :)
Thanks for posting this!
I essentially have the same libraries to choose from as you. I have had the most luck combining BBCSO and Berklee. It has made using Dorico a lot more pleasant, but at present, it just doesn’t sound as good as StaffPad. I hope to see improvements in the future, but I think the next round is going to focus on enabling more libraries. So we are likely going to have a long wait before any drastic improvements are made.
I haven't tried mixing libraries yet. I'm just not sure it's worth all of the hassle, at least not yet. Plus having to spend extra money on each template...
good luck using staffpad for anything though.
I use Staffpad. I agree; the playback is much better in it. With the recent introduction of 3rd party libraries to Muse Sounds at extremely affordable prices ($15 per section) I am hoping Dorico will incorporate the option of using the Muse sound engine within it as an add on. Like Note Performer. I prefer the workflow on Dorico to Musescore, but prefer the playback on Musescore. So, this is annoying ....
@@alontrigger I suppose that anything is possible, but I can't imagine why Musegroup would allow Dorico--a competitor--to use Musehub.
Wow very interesting. I thought VSL was the clearest and best balanced. It was truer to the score markings imo. Sonically I liked CSS the best. It was fuller and had more presence. I also noticed the horns don't sound as 'phased' with VSL either as with the other libraries. I have BBCSO Pro, CineStrings but can't use it yet until he updates the engine. I'm really considering pulling the trigger on VSL Prime and use it in conjuction with BBCSO and possibly CineStrings depending on how those work.
Yes, VSL has a cleaner sound here, and fits the Noteperformer playback engine the best, but the tone isn't as nice as some of the others.
@@AlexHeppelmann Maybe this is oversimplified, but I wonder if a mastering plugin on the master bus of Dorico would make it sound fuller? I'm clearly not an engineer so may be a dumb idea.
@@winknotes sounds like a good idea to me!
Yeah, VSL is making me regretting buying BBCSO Pro 😂(I'm joking but its sound in comparison with the others on noteperformer surprised me)
Since reverb can be adjusted in NPPE, I wonder how VSL would sound with more ambience.
If you have noteperformer 4 and BBCO Pro but you want to have a good piano solo ,(better than the standard NP) what would you suggest ?
Depends on the price range you're looking at... I really like the Simple Sam Signature Grand, which is really affordable. The VSL Yamaha CFX blends really well with orchestra, but it's expensive in comparison.
@@AlexHeppelmann Did you know , can you use it with Noteperformer / Sibelius as a plug in?
How are you handling the example of Dorico not being able to play ornaments?
Thank you for this very helpful demo video! Were there any MIDI offset/delay issues when using any of these libraries with NP4? It doesn't seem like it, but I was just wondering. Thank you!
Not that I was aware of!
what are your thoughts for Iconica sections & players? i'm starting to learn how uses in cubase, it seems very full and one nice starting point for me as a begginer composer, I haven't buy noteperformer yet, it sounds interesting that i can see how integrate both. I also have dorico, and i like to work more in notation software than the DAW itself, maybe this can be a solution for working and after export midis to cubase for details.
I've never used Iconica -- it seemed a bit expensive when it first came out, and I haven't heard much talk of it.
@@AlexHeppelmann Is quite similar to Orchestral Tools Berln Series IMO because also is developed by himselves together with steinberg at Funkhaus Berlin Stage similar to Telddex i think, I would like if you check it, even they have an 30 days trial version.
Hi, Alex. Thanks for the comprehensive tutorial. I listened to your examples and before your comments I was making an opinion by ear. It turned out that 90% of my opinions were the same as yours.
However, it still doesn't allow me to choose one or more libraries to use with Noteperformer 4, which frustrates me. I was hoping to be able to put together a go-to solution for orchestra with Dorico + Noterperformer 4, but that didn't happen.
I have a question: how do you set the divisi in Dorico and have the NP play it correctly? Is it just text or is it a custom articulation or something else?
I think NP treats any chord within a string section as divisi if I'm not mistaken.
I understand that it was just released but like...didn't Noteperformer 3.2 come out 5 years ago? Noteperformer 4 still sounds like a beta version of what's to come. What happened?
I think others may be able to answer that better than me -- i think the developer felt that he couldn't improve the sound any more, hence the shift towards working with other libraries.
Because Noteformer is essentially a playback compiler.Recognizing the score notation and prossessing the correct sample with a proper dynamic is the most valueble aspect. Making symphonic samples is out of a small team work.
@@AlexHeppelmann I suggest that this is a total lie. I think the developers were bought by the library manufacturers.
It's simple: the team didn't want to improve their product, or they just screwed up, or they were bought by library developers.
Hi Alex, the screen recording of Dorico looks great. What software are you using may I ask, to do this with? Thank you.
Thanks, Steve. I'm using OBS to capture my screen.
@@AlexHeppelmann Thank you for that info Alex. I'll check it out. 🙂
How would you rate e.g. Noteperformer with VSL Prime compared to the VSL Prime Playback Template? Would you rate Noteperformer much better?
(I'm not quite sure having compared this with my ears.)
I think VSL in NP works a little better. Plus I like how NP handles divisi. That stood out as very problematic with the regular Prime template in Dorico.
Have you had any issues exporting the stems using NPPE and finale with audio hanging up?
I haven't tried exporting stems from NPPE. I take it you're experiencing this?
Yes I am. I spoke with Wallander. They are aware of it but currently have no fix. It’s only with finale
I’m a little confused as to what the new version of noteperformer does. Does it just trigger the correct articulation from a given library whenever written into the score? Dorico already supported this, though you had to make your own expression map :-/
Fair question... you'd essentially be buying expression maps / playback templates without having to do any work. There are some fairly complex things that NP does, like how it handles divisi, so all of that gets incorporated into these templates
May i ask, how its possible to hear "sul tasto" while some of this libraries dont have them ? Is it some kind of eq filter?
I assume some kind of filter, but I'm not sure. I know Noteperformer uses filtering for con sordino. And I didn't mention in my video, but for any instrument that's in the score but not in the library, Noteperformer will just use their own sounds (like piano in my second example).
full 2023,... and at this point I am very disappointed with all the original sound libraries of developers of score editors,... I even suppose that there must be pressure from the manufacturers of prestigious libraries, against this, for economic reasons, etc. .....it is very difficult to work like this,,,when one knows how it should sound approaching reality,....so I understand you....we will wait 50 more years
All a matter of taste 🤷🤷🤷
Privet friends...
Hi, this is my version of my Star Wars Medley for Concert Band.
I used NotePerformer 4.5.0 powered by Dorico 5 Pro.
In my opinion, NotePerformer has far more capabilities than credited for, one must understand sound enginering.
Take a listen:
th-cam.com/video/nfOS3N8RsJY/w-d-xo.html
До свидания
BBCSO sounds dreadful to me. Sluggish and inauthentic.
Privet friends...
You are not really demonstrating NotePerformer. I personally use it a lot and is sounding much better than what you demonstrated here. Any VST can sound quite authentic if worked on under hood.
До свидания
if only np3 had better sound...